Chelsea champions of the world while England send Wales packing at Euros – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Chelsea are the best team in the world.

Are Chelsea the best team in the world?

Are Chelsea good now?

They stunned PSG in the final of the Club World Cup.

Some elite finishing from Cole Palmer and Jao Pedro means a second trophy for Enzo Maresca.

We'll try and work out if the Club World Cup was good and how heartwarming it was to see Donald Trump getting a medal and celebrating with the team.

Maybe Chelsea bought him and are going to sell him back to themselves in the ultimate PSR loophole.

At exactly the same time, England waltzed past Wales at Euro 2025.

It was incredibly comfortable.

There is some real momentum behind the Lionesses.

France's win over the Netherlands means the Lionesses are on the easy side of the draw.

Oh no, not this again.

Emotional scenes at Deepdale as Liverpool play their opening preseason game in their first game since the tragic loss of Diogo Jotter.

Also, today, Crystal Palace are demoted to the Conference League.

There's a secret release clause of Morgan Gibbs White's.

Victor Yokarez goes on strike.

All that, plus your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Dan Bardell, welcome.

Hello, Max.

They're out in Switzerland.

Robin Cowan, hello.

Hello, Max.

John Bruin, welcome.

Hello.

I've just poured water all over myself, so that's.

Oh, dear, how exciting.

To make the pod a bit more sort of scintillating, a saucy...

Are you going for a sort of wet t-shirt?

He's thinking about the weather at the Club World Cup, aren't you?

Yeah, that's it.

It's a part of the.

Viewers aren't going to see, let's put it that way.

So it's going to be interesting down there.

Do you want a moment?

No, I'm fine.

I wouldn't want a podcast for an hour.

Are you sopping wet or are you okay to carry on?

I've had worse, and I don't really want to go into detail of when, but.

Fine, fine, fine.

Barry's not here.

Taking your drinks break too early, John.

You're supposed to wait.

25 minutes.

Barry's not here to deflect to either today.

I've never done that.

I've never done that.

Good man.

Right, let's start with the Club World Cup.

We weren't sure whether we'd lead with England or the Club World Cup.

And I suspect if PSG had won this like we'd expected to, we'd have led with England.

And if Wales had beaten England, we'd have started with that.

But it feels like the bigger story today.

Ted says, does the Club World Cup feel like a real tournament now that PSG have bottled it?

I mean, John, who saw this coming?

Well, can I first congratulate Donald Trump

for winning the competition,

for organizing the competition?

When you saw upon the rostrum, you saw Gianni Infantino have that lonely feeling that so many people have had in the life of Donald Trump, which is he's taken all the credit for this.

I did all this work, and he's just stepped across me.

Now he knows how Elon Musk feels.

You know, this, this, this,

Trump suddenly.

I didn't realize when I was watching the footage of last night and I kept the TV running with an interview with Donald Trump about how wonderful the country is and his favourite players.

And it was a really good outing for Make America Great Again, wasn't it?

Oh, you're asking about the football.

Oh, sorry.

I mean, no, no, it's okay because you started with that.

And I think it is really fascinating.

And I don't know what you think, Dan.

Just that moment where

if I ran football, I would be nowhere near the trophy lift, right?

I wouldn't even be out there.

I'd give it to a legend.

You don't need to be there.

But okay, Jianni's there.

But even Jianni knows.

Once you've passed the trophy, you then sidle off to the side.

And the fact that Donald Trump just doesn't come with him and then is standing there clapping basically part of the team.

And then Jianni has to sort of come back,

sort of hug him, sort of laugh along with him and sort of try and get him to the back, sort of out of shot.

It's sort of, it's absolutely sort of

in the most basic level, hilarious when you strip it all back to, you know,

the whole problem with the Club World Cup, a bit depressing.

But I'm focusing on the hilarious bit for now, if I'm allowed.

Yeah, it reminded me a bit of when David May was so heavily involved in the Champions League 1999 celebration.

I think, you know, one of the treble, to be honest, because I didn't feel he had much right to be there either.

I think the highlight for me is that the picture that went around the WhatsApp group this morning of Cole Palmer kind of just looking at him and thinking, why are you still here?

Because Cole Palmer doesn't hide his feelings and his emotions very well, usually, does he?

It's written all over his face but i think it probably in a weird way kind of sums up the tournament quite appropriately and quite nicely yeah nicely is probably not the right word but i think you take my point yeah robin i mean obviously you were quite busy you probably weren't double screening i suspect uh last night um with your professional duties uh for england wales but just i wonder in in the sense that

how annoying is it and i i asked susie this yesterday that

these games happened at exactly the same time.

You know, when,

you know, even the fact that we have to debate, well, editorially, what do we lead with?

What's the bigger story?

Like, FIFA talk a good game about women's football, and there we are, you know, relegating England to part two of this.

Yeah, I mean, it's not surprising.

It happens all the time.

But I think it's, there definitely is a point of the women's game is sort of relegated.

But it's just the sheer volume of football now.

It's kind of like there is going to be clashes everywhere.

I haven't really watched any of it,

to be honest, because it's just that my brain's too full of women's Euros.

But I watched the highlights, and it seemed like Chelsea, I mean, Cole Palmer is the story, really, isn't he?

What a game.

He just, when he's on form like that, he makes everything he does look effortless.

I love the way he passes the ball into the back of the net.

It is just sensational.

And yeah, what a weird double that Chelsea have won.

Conference League Club World Cup double.

You'll never see that.

Yeah, very, just really weird.

Just the whole thing.

Very strange.

Very strange indeed.

Yeah, yeah.

Interestingly, we've had quite a lot of correspondents saying, please cover the Club World Cup properly.

We've had a lot of correspondents saying, don't talk about it at all.

So you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.

The thing about Palmer's finishing, John, is that there are so many footballers that can make that,

you know, a pass to a teammate.

like that 100 times out of 100, but cannot do the same thing when it's the goal that that you have to pass to.

There is something psychological about it.

Whether it's instinctive or the fact that, you know, Palmer plays with that sort of total freedom, that means he doesn't like,

there's not even a tiny part of him that freezes.

And he hasn't had a brilliant form all the time, but when, as Robin says, he's on form, that ability is just something that so few players have.

Yeah, it's a coolness that sometimes even the most talented players don't have.

I remember, I mean, this is going back a long time, but the, you know, someone like Ryan Giggs, it was always like he's trying to burst the back of the net when he gets in front of goal.

Cole Palmer does exactly the opposite.

It's the, you, you know, it's like a Barry Davis commentary, you know, breathe the chance.

Like he takes the breath and thinks, right, it's going there.

But almost

he's not, but it's instinct as well.

It's all instinct with Cole Palmer.

He is so off the cuff as a player.

And that's the strange thing is that he is playing in Mareska's team, which is one of the most

You can imagine the Maresca training is, remember, there were those stories about Roberto De Zerbi down at Brighton just having the players just having to do shape, shape, shape all day.

And you imagine that is how it is, just as it is.

I mean, that's how Italian managers manage.

It's, you know, the Italian education system is by rote, and that's how you learn football.

And yet, Cole Palmer drifts through it like a sort of skinny Liam Gallagher, Chris Waddle,

and just

decorates the games with these beautiful goals.

The post-match interview was just this classic piece of almost like punk attitude where he's like, and I'll use the word, I think we can.

He said, people have given us a lot of shit this season.

And he says what he means.

He just has that attitude, and that makes him such a special footballer.

It doesn't necessarily make him, as Robin said, a consistent footballer, but it, but on his day, and he is a guy

for the big occasion.

Because you remember when City sold him towards the end of that transfer window, two or three years ago, I think he'd scored in the Super Cup final, he'd scored in the Community Shield, and he was just coming to the brim, really.

He was just coming to the boil.

He's nerveless, and on those occasions, you need a nerveless guy.

And it was so strange because PSG are the European champions, yet completely fell apart.

And people like Nuno Mendez, who are supposed to be the best at their sports, just came apart.

I don't know what it was, the heat.

Luis Enrique,

this magisterial coach that we've said, you know, is possibly the best coach in the world, by the end of it, he's swinging a left

in a post-match brawl.

It got to PSG, and the reason it got to PSG is that Chelsea had a perfect game plan and had a perfect play for it in Cole Palmer.

Yeah.

And also, you know, Giao Pedro, I mean, it is interesting, Dan, isn't it, that someone messaged, I forgot to put it in the script.

You know, Chelsea wins this competition because they won the Champions League in 2021.

Obviously, Gio Pedro was nowhere near this side as most of the players weren't in 2021.

He wasn't even there two weeks ago.

He was just lying on the beach.

And yet, again, like, you know, what a start to his Chelsea career.

I thought, you know, Palmer was absolutely excellent.

I thought while Jal Pedro was on the pitch, I actually actually thought he was Chelsea's best player because he somehow managed to occupy the entire PSG back line.

Some of his off-the-ball movement and some of his pressing.

I think his pressing was what actually

I was most impressed with.

It took me back to when Liverpool were playing their rock and roll football and underclopping.

It was for me, you know, and it was the kind of birth of that front three.

I honestly thought, thought Giao Pedro was outstanding and topped it off with a lovely dinked finish as well.

He kind of combines a little bit of Delap Lap and a little bit of Jackson, I felt, in his performance, in that he was had the husband.

He seemed to have the hustle and bustle that we expect De Lap to provide.

But he had that clever off-the-ball movement that Nicholas Jackson had.

So when Chelsea signed him, I was thinking, where's he going to fit?

Because obviously one of De Lap or Jackson is going to play.

But I actually thought he just looked like the perfect centre forward for Chelsea last night.

And then Palmer, because they had an overlapping right back, could, even though he was playing on the right-hand side, he could invert and become almost a right-sided number 10.

And Netto was holding the width on the other side on the on the left flank with kukara coming in and kind of inverting when he needed to or staying back and making a back three when he needed to and i just thought well that all worked and i've not felt that with chelsea over over the last few years and they've got that bit of stability now as well by having the same manager for for the second season in a row i'm not sure if that's something that will ever catch on but

I thought Chelsea were brilliant.

We can say what we like about the tournament, but when two teams get to the final, they're giving it their best and they want to win.

And Chelsea completely outclassed PSG.

Yeah, and I thought, like, when DeLap came on as well, he looked dangerous as well.

And, you know, you need to have a big squad when you're going to be in the Champions League.

And it is really interesting to see how good Chelsea will be.

De Osmond said, did Gareth play the wrong right back in midfield at the Euros?

Rhys James is excellent.

What did you make, John, of Rhys James in there?

Rhys James's return to form and prominence is quite a heartening tale because we were hearing, weren't we, not that long ago, that that was perhaps the end of him as a useful top-level player because of his problems with muscles.

Let's credit Thomas Tuchel actually was one of the people who had a lot of faith in him.

Thomas Tuchel restored him to the England setup, is a big fan of his.

And there were points in the season when it felt like Mareski didn't particularly trust him, but he's revived himself.

He is such a talented player who is capable of playing across the team.

Is he England's Philip Lahm?

You know,

does he have that level of talent?

Perhaps not the same distribution skills, but he has that game reading ability.

He also is a fearsome competitor.

Listen, you know, PST's midfield was so dominant when they won the Champions League.

Vitinia, a play like that, and he just gobbled him up.

I think 14, 15 months ago, I was watching Enzo Mareska lose at Bristol City.

as a Leicester manager.

There are a lot of doubts in him as a manager.

There may well still be doubts in him as a manager.

But you can't say he hasn't achieved what he was meant to do.

He's taken them into the Champions League.

He's won the Conference League.

He's won the Coppagiani.

When we think of Chelsea managers, we think of one or two Chelsea managers.

And there are other managers that have been successful.

You know, you've got

your Roberto Di Mateo.

Is he in the Di Mateo camp?

Is he in the Mourinho camp?

Hiddinks?

He probably won.

He won the European campaign.

He was all something, didn't they?

Yeah, there you go.

That's Chelsea.

And you have to say, this is the strange thing about Chelsea, and it, you know,

they just win.

They win trophies when other clubs, you know, Manchester United's and, you know, Liverpool went a long time without winning a trophy all the way through this, since the Abramovich era, they just win stuff.

Yeah.

And it must be, it must be, being a Chelsea fan, are they at the point of being bored of winning?

So I suspect not.

But it's easy for them.

Chelsea versus Spurs.

Tottenham are, historically, a much bigger club.

Chelsea fans don't like that.

It's true.

But if you're a Spurs fan, look at Chelsea and just think they've won 25 trophies in the time that Tottenham have won one.

And they just do it as like, well, this is what we do.

Yeah, they sort of do it without...

in a weird way, without sort of creating a legacy.

But they obviously do, but it sort of doesn't feel like that.

They're just, oh, I just happened to have done this and they've done it again.

Wonder where the James, where do the James family go?

You know, when they're, you know, like Rhys Rhys is there winning the Cold World Cup, and Lauren's there, you know,

playing brilliantly again for England.

Robin, I'd like to ask you about Joel Nevez pulling Coca-Cola's hair.

I mean, it is,

it's such a good tactic to have hair that long when you're that annoying.

I was going to say, more, I mean, that is, it's brilliant.

I think more people should utilise that really, if possible, because it's so tempting, isn't it?

It's just so tempting, and it's going to be a red card.

And I do think that's a kind of marginal game that more

players should

take hold of.

But as you've mentioned so many times previously, Max, he's also one of the most irritating players ever.

So, you just want to do it.

So, you almost need the hair, but also the personality of Kukurea.

I think that's the fourth pattern that's happened.

I was looking at this and running the stats on the Kukarella hair.

Expected hair power.

Christian Romero was the famous one.

Jack Stevens.

That went unpunished, I think, didn't it?

Was that that?

Jack Stevens was actually sent off for it.

David Brooks, a game I was at, actually,

VAR attempted to send him off.

We had a 10-minute delay while they ran back footage of hair being pulled, or was it?

And

this one was a clear, this was a clear and obvious hair fall, wasn't it?

If you're getting David Brooks that angry, like, that is something, isn't it?

Like, but you know, like, but if he's your player, like, he's like, he'd made an amazing block at 0-0, actually, i think it was where he really read i think douay tried to square it and uh he's had a great season actually hasn't he generally yeah yeah yeah totally uh and robert sancho's actually made a few really good saves we've been pretty critical of him lots of people have he actually played really well in this game it was a lovely moment where he was hugging oh did you did you notice the Did you notice the fact that the four or five, I'm not sure, lost count of

Chelsea goalies had this big hug together.

Yeah, I thought it was really nice.

I thought it was really lovely.

Like, what a group to be in, isn't it?

Maybe they live together.

Maybe they just all hang out together.

It's lovely.

Um, what did we make of uh down of the opening ceremony?

Sort of bejeweled FIFA lettering on the pitch, uh, you know, loads of breaks, you know, Trump and Gianni standing there for the national anthem and the Robbie Williams performing the official FIFA anthem, and then you know, Michael Buffer, and then you have, you know, in the crowd, Spike Lee, the former Emir of Qatar, Hamad Bil Khalafi Altani, and Rita Aura.

Like, it's sort of a, it's, it's like a fever dream in a way.

And then a 24-minute half-time.

Yeah.

I mean, it might be classed as being a little bit much.

I would think all those people

that you've just named.

The halftime show baffled me.

That sounded, sorry, Dan.

That sounded so good in Brummy.

In Brummy, that was perfect.

It was the halftime show that...

that baffled me.

I couldn't understand what was going on.

When I walked back downstairs, I didn't really know who half the people were.

I did have to make inquiries with my family as to who was who.

Doja Cat.

Is that right?

I thought it was.

Well, Chris Martin was there, unaware of his work, of course.

Jay Balvin.

Jay Balvin, you know, it sounds like someone who could have played, you know, 300 types of aldershot.

Doja Cat and Thames, all on an enormous high-tech stage that was built above the arena

so it didn't upset the

turf.

It took six semi-trucks to deliver all the required material, including 40,000 pounds of gear, scenery and structural trusses.

I thought Dojra Cat was a bit insensitive to wear a crystal palace shirt after the recent news.

I thought that was a that was a a little bit out of order.

Yeah, just a just just just just a bit more.

I started to think, is this even real?

Is it is it is it AI?

Am I going mad?

I couldn't work out what what was going on, but I'm not sure.

Would you say it was 24 minutes?

Because it felt like it was

like it was 45.

So we're having like three 45 minute parts of a game now.

I mean, I I guess, Robin, we are always in danger of being, I was going to say, old men yelling at clouds, but old women as well, old people yelling at clouds when we sort of say this isn't what football is.

But, you know, football is 15 minutes half-time.

You're either taking penalties against the mascot or you're trying to kick the ball in from the halfway line and you're trying to chip the ball into like a giant washing machine or something.

That's into a skip, yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Uh, game's gone.

I mean, yeah, you're right.

You kind of

really try not to kind of keep a bit of an open open mind.

I think it was just in keeping with the competition, I guess.

You know, it's in America.

It's been a bit weird.

You know, this whole sort of announcing the players as they come in.

I guess that's it's kind of the vibe, isn't it?

I don't think we're going to see that at you know, Bramwell Lane.

People go, who's that then?

Well, you say that, but back in the 90s, I once attended a Sheffield United game against Ipswich, and Def Leopard came on and did a bit of a promo.

Did they?

Yeah.

When Love and Hate Collide, I remember the record, yeah.

So there you go.

The funny thing you used to say, and I thought you were a big fan of these, actually, Max.

You said it's Chris Martin.

I think the whole of Cold Play were actually on there.

Oh, were they?

Were they?

You see, because no one actually knows who the...

Like, being a member of Cold Play.

Who are the others?

Isn't Chris Martin?

I could ask Mrs.

Russian.

I could go in there and she would know instantly.

I believe one of them's called Will Champion.

I don't know the other one.

No, I don't know who they are.

You're right, though, John.

That's the absolute dream.

You don't get recognised, but you're loaded.

And I think they do actually share quite a lot of the money out.

So it's all good.

Yeah, as opposed to the four of us who don't get recognized, but aren't loaded.

Nagiani said this was the most successful club competition in the world.

We respect everyone's opinion.

It has been successful.

We've had over 2.5 million in the stadium.

That's around 40,000 spectators per match.

No league in the world with that number except the Premier League, which of course has home teams.

And these are neutral stadiums.

I mean, another way of reading it is that there were over a million empty seats across the competition.

So you choose the way you want to dress up these stats.

We heard financially it would not work, but I can say we generated over 2 billion in revenue with the competition.

We earned an average of $33 million a match.

There is no other cup competition in the world that comes close to $33 million per match.

There was me thinking the Zenith Data Systems did.

It's already the most successful club competition in the world with all different measurements.

Like, okay, I understand the concept of PR, right?

We all work in the media.

You understand the idea of

stuff being put a positive spin on.

We got used to that in the 1990s.

I think that was sort of when that came in.

But everything has to be like, this is the greatest thing ever that you've ever seen.

This is absolutely...

After Qatar 2022, which in football-wise was a good World Cup.

It wasn't always a good World Cup.

Some bits were quite bad, but

it ended up a good World Cup.

We've held the greatest ever.

This has been the greatest ever.

And every time they come up with this stuff of this has been the greatest thing you've ever seen,

we're doing this.

And the thing is,

you can see Infantino doing this, and then you almost have this.

Suddenly you could transform, and you could hear Donald Trump saying it.

Because it is all that Trumpist, you know, we're doing a great job.

Everything we're doing is possible.

You know, we're doing,

it is just, and there is only one for it, bullshit.

And it drives me insane.

Yeah, you're listening to the greatest podcast in the world, Guardian Football Weekly.

And we'll be back in a second to look back at England's victory over Wales.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

It's England 6 Wales 1.

Robin, a lot of people played up the local derby element of this game and England not taking this for granted.

And I guess England didn't take it for granted.

It was very straightforward.

Very straightforward.

And I think actually

Susie said this on, I think, maybe the Women's Guardian Women's Football Weekly: that

Wales and England, that it's a chasm.

It's a chasm.

And it's, you know, respectfully, it's through no fault of the players, but they are so early on in their development as a nation, Wales.

And they were exposed yesterday by England who've the last kind of, well, probably since 2015 or so have been very successful.

And since Serena Viegman has come in and demanded the best for them, the best facilities, you know, and Wales

haven't had that.

Yeah, it was, it would have been an absolute, it would have been a total shock disaster if Wales had got anything in this.

You know, they were very limited.

Great for them that they got the goal in front of the Red Wall, but England were totally dominant.

They didn't really have to have to get out of first, second gear.

And everything's looking very, very good, actually.

That France game feels like a very long time ago.

We had six different goal scorers yesterday for England.

We had,

you know, Aggie Viva-Jones coming off the bench, providing an assist and a goal.

Russo, Beth Mead off the mark, Lauren Hemp as well.

And what was great was that because they were final up at halftime, Serena Beaven could take a couple of players off and start substituting the team because I think she's now got her starting 11 sorted.

And yeah, so going forward,

it's all very positive, but albeit a pretty tough quarter-final coming up.

Yeah, I mean,

you're right.

The balance of the side looks so much better.

It's interesting.

Would you say she's chanced upon this starting 11?

Or look, you know,

because the preparation hasn't been amazing.

But it does really look like, okay,

you swap Carter and Greenwood, right?

That's quite interesting that you do that mid-tournament.

That's a strange thing to do, but it seems to work, you know, granted, given the opposition they had yesterday.

Moving James that wide, that looks like it works.

Looks like, you know, just do this in the France game.

But I mean, it doesn't matter, but it's great that she has found this right.

Yeah, I don't think it's chance.

I think Serena Viegman,

they've never lost consecutive games under her, England.

So it just shows that when they do get things wrong, when she perhaps doesn't make a bit of a misstep, she corrects it.

It's really worked.

Ella Toon coming in, she's now having a really great tournament.

She got a couple of goals, got an assist yesterday.

She had an 100% pass completion rate in the first half.

Wow.

Yeah, incredible.

And yeah, it's just, it's all looking very good.

That down that right side in particular against Wales, it was Lucy Bronze, Ella Toon, and Lauren James.

They just couldn't handle them, these kind of little intricate passes.

Ella Toon and Beth Mead have both lost parents pretty uh recently.

This is the first tournament where they haven't been there, their biggest supporters, and they've both spoken very movingly about it.

And so Beth Mead scored her first goal with the tournament and spoke about her mum, June, who who died.

Um

and it's just, yeah, it but they seem like a really tight-knit group.

Beth Mead is kind of a bit unfortunate that she's been the one who's been sort of dropped really through no fault of her own.

I mean, she wasn't like the weak link against France, but the team now has more balance.

Um, with Ella Toon's industry and Lauren James now out wide, um, she had another great game.

I mean, I've played against those sort of players that you know, and you just want to kick them because they're so annoyingly good.

Yeah, but they try and kick, you can't even get near her.

It's so frustrating.

Just so please she's on our side, really.

Yeah, and that is interesting, Dan, isn't it?

That look that Lauren James has that kind of she is doing it at her own pace.

So, sort of, when it doesn't work in the France game, it's quite easy to sort sort of, and obviously she hadn't played for a long time, to sort of pinpoint that as the problem.

But when it works, it's, it's a bit like talking about Cole Palmer.

Like, it's just somebody who is just sort of different.

Yeah, someone that sees the game differently and plays the game differently.

I'm not a great double screen watcher when I'm trying to watch two things at the same time, but I had the England game on my iPad and every time I looked over.

it was Lauren James that was doing something.

I think sometimes she doesn't get the credit for some of the finesse that she possesses as one of the goals where she kind of flicked the ball through.

I don't feel like when people talk about it, they don't talk about that side of a game.

She's just a lovely, unique footballer to watch and was involved in everything good that England did, particularly in that first half, I thought.

And if England are to progress and go far, she will be the most important player because, like we've kind of just alluded to, I think she's the most different and unique player that England possesses.

And I think that's what makes her special.

And in classic England major tournament mode, John, finishing second is good.

And we're on the good side of the draw.

You heard this before?

Well, um, lucky managers, isn't it?

I mean, Gareth Southgate was always good at the

getting through the draw somehow that you had to face a a relatively easy opponent.

But you can't say, I mean, as Robin says, you can't say Serena Viegman is a lucky manager.

She's just a great manager.

And the thing is about after that France game, that the...

There was a panic, wasn't it?

There was a panic about that.

And a panic, I think, among broadcasters, among

you know, among the media, because it's like if England crashes out of this thing early, we wonder about the health of this tournament, in this country, I should say.

And despite Uncle Gianni's best efforts,

we will get to watch, thankfully, the lionesses without men's football going all over the top of it, which is great.

I'll watch more of the second game than I did with this game.

The Netherlands, they seem to have dropped off a hell of a lot since I recall them back in 2019 in particular.

And by the sounds of the tournament, as compared to the Crowboard Cup, it's in those 30,000 stadiums, isn't it?

It sounds great.

It looks good.

It sounds like it's a great atmosphere there.

Everyone's enjoying it.

Hopefully, that tournament is a success and it is going to be able to step out into the four that it deserves and should have had in the first place.

If you're asking the lack of Donald Trump celebrating, he probably took a while.

You never know.

He could just take it.

Parachuting.

Were you scared, Robin?

I mean, after that France game, I really thought, oh, wow, these guys look hopeless.

Oh, yeah.

No, no, we really were, all of us.

We were very in the press room ahead of the Netherlands game.

We really didn't know because we saw the Netherlands dispatch Wales fairly easily.

But that's the thing.

I think that we're still a little bit...

Not concerned, but you know, England have chucked in a really bad performance at this tournament.

Sweden haven't, who they face next.

Actually, the Netherlands is really interesting because yesterday yesterday they had to beat France by three goals, so difficult.

They were winning 2-1.

Yeah.

And by all accounts, they were playing really well, but because they had to keep,

you know, they had to score more, they were left very exposed.

I haven't seen the fallout, but he kept Vivian Miedemar on the bench the whole game.

Now, I don't know if that was...

Because she was injured, but that is going to cause a meltdown.

And I'm sure you're aware that the Netherlands manager was told, this is, you're not staying on after this.

Yeah.

Yeah, and the England assistant's going there, yeah.

Yeah, Serena's assistant is going there.

I'm just thinking that's not conducive, probably, to a great atmosphere.

Um, you know, he was very pissed off by that.

It's all by all accounts, you know, he was like, Well, why am I, why should I even do this tournament?

I think he kind of was thinking about not bothering.

Um, so yeah, just a very odd situation for them.

And it was a difficult group.

Obviously, France, England, Netherlands would usually all think they're going to get to the knockout stages.

It's the Netherlands who were, who are not going to make it.

So, yeah, just very odd, very odd situation for the Dutch.

Yeah, it would be the first time there'd ever been a bad atmosphere in a Dutch squad during a major tournament.

They really do these things in stone.

Talk to us about Sweden, Robin.

Looks at a great result against Germany.

Because once people who probably don't follow the women's game every minute of the day hear our easy side of the draw, they'll then just go, okay, well, this is just, it's England's guaranteed path to the final to probably lose to Spain.

Yes.

Well, it's easy in the way, in the sense that we're really getting ahead of ourselves.

It's an easier semi-final, potentially, but I think a more difficult quarter-final.

So it would have been Germany, who I think maybe England against Germany has a different vibe, but they have not been very good this tournament.

And yeah, the, well.

literally giving Sweden a helping hand.

I don't know if you saw the handball and the red card for the Germany player.

It was literally like a really good goalkeeper reflex save.

So she was sent off, and Sweden kind of ran riot.

But Sweden, you know, in terms of women's football, they have a fantastic history.

They're always there or thereabouts.

They keep kind of falling just short.

They've got a lot of bronze medals from the World Cup and the Olympics and things like that.

The Peter Elliott of

exactly.

But they've got a really good coach, Peter Gerhardson.

He's great.

Oh, John, you'd love him.

He's well into his music.

He's always talking about

he likes to play play sort of music from the opposition sort of famous, well, anyway.

But I'll leave that to you.

As I say, that was some terrible music chat, Robin.

I'll leave it to you.

Very vague.

Vague music chat with Robin Cat.

Whoever hosts Six Music Breakfast is

shitting bricks right now, Robin.

I'll tell you.

Robin, I'll write a treatment.

We could do that.

We can make money on it.

Yeah, we'll finesse it.

But yeah, he's a really good coach.

They like him.

England beat Sweden heavily at the previous Euros in the semifinals 4-0.

That was the Russo back heel.

A lot of players that they play against, Blackstinius is there, a lot of WSL players.

Yeah, they're very well coached.

This is the harder quarterfinal.

Yeah, it means you miss the Spain semi-final, but let's not.

Let's hold the horses a little bit first.

Am I right in saying Blackstinius is because

I did the column for Jonas Odeval.

We were chatting about him, obviously.

Blackstinius is a great presser of the ball.

So

he said that that's the her strength that she she is always there waiting and uh you know it is I mean obviously we know how good she is from for Arsenal but I I mean my limited knowledge I thought Sweden doesn't look that promising a draw really as you say I mean we're seeing the lioness's post-success aren't we and that's the difficult part for so many teams is to repeat that and and as you've said that there are players who've had

life changes that have gone on since then, you know, and

it's never that easy to repeat that success and repeat that feeling.

And

if they managed to do it, it would be an unbelievable success, really, wouldn't it?

I think so, yeah, because

you can't just go on an upward curve the whole time.

And to reach, you know, again, we're getting ahead of ourselves.

Apart from this podcast, obviously.

Apart from this podcast in the past, obviously.

But, you know, they won the Euro

Trump.

If they got to the World Cup final, if they get to another fight, I mean, that is, it's ridiculous, really, because it's not the same squad as well.

It's very, very different from the last Euros in particular.

So, yeah, as I say, I think the Sweden game, I think England have better players and more depth on paper.

But as I say, that France game is still just a bit of a niggle.

And if that happens again, Sweden will take advantage.

France are really good.

Certainly in that second half when they beat the Netherlands 5-2, Delphine Cascarino is some player.

Got a better touch than her dad, Tony.

That is for sure.

It's a shame she didn't play for Republic of Ireland, isn't it?

Exactly.

So the quarterfinals are Norway, Italy, Sweden, England.

The winners of those two will meet and then Spain, Switzerland, France, Germany.

So I, I mean, I guess, Robin, you're expecting a France-Spain semi-final, which would be sort of box office.

This should be the final in Verticomas type game.

And then

you think the semi-final, you know, whoever progresses between England and Sweden would be expected to make the final in a game against Norway, as well.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, Norway and Norway have been so strange.

They've not played well, and they find themselves where they are, and they've got a very favourable draw against Italy.

Although I did Italy's game against Spain, and they really played very well.

They couldn't last the 90 minutes, but

they were kind of very typical Italy, sort of very good defensively, scored a good goal on the counter.

They were creating chances from set pieces and sort of breaking this very high Spain line.

So they can be got at.

But my favourite bit was the club doctor coming on in full suit, the Italian club doctor.

Lovely.

And I was just thought, yeah, that's brilliant.

That is absolutely sensational.

That no tracks, not a trackser in sight on that Italian bench.

It's all suits.

Guardian Women's Football Weekly is three times a week, and we're actually going to have the rest of this week off.

So we're going to put some of their pods into our feed.

So listen to them and then subscribe to Guardian Women's Football Weekly, wherever you get your podcast.

We'll be back in just a second.

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Barry's here too.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Let's start talking about Liverpool's first game back in pre-season at Deepdale, where they played Preston North End first game since the tragic death of Diego Giotto and his brother.

And I don't know if you've seen or heard some of the,

you know when they played you'll never walk alone actually me and Barry on the radio and we we crossed there and we just let them play it and I can't remember who the singer was but she did an amazing job and the it sounded even without the pictures it was incredibly moving and it's just one of those moments John where because of how quickly the news cycle goes and even in football it's not you forget that something has happened but you just move on and you're thinking about the next thing and the next thing and it just felt so and this won't obviously be the last time that you know Liverpool commemorate his life, but I just found it incredibly moving.

And just like a salient reminder of, you know, this is still so raw.

And obviously, for his family and his,

you know, his family and his friends and his wife and his kids, but for the Liverpool team as well, just how raw this is.

Yeah, I mean, it happened only last Thursday.

And, you know,

as we, as I'm sure we all know, part of the grieving process doesn't happen that quickly, does it?

And of course, Preston, a very fitting club for Liverpool to play because of the connection with Bill Shankly.

As you say, we will see this again at the start of the season.

I'm sure come the end of next season, Diogo Giotto will not be forgotten.

It's such a strange situation.

I can't remember this being repeated, you know, in English football.

I know it has.

Joseph Mourinho talked about how he lost a player when he was back at Benfica many years ago with Bobby Robson.

But it's so difficult to carry these things off.

Liverpool have to.

Preston did the job properly, as you'd expect.

And it's one of the great clubs of English football of a different era.

And

it was very, very,

well,

it brought it back to you, didn't it?

That he is not long gone.

And for his teammates, that's going to be very, very difficult.

And it's clear that

it continues to hang over them, as it will do, I think, for a long time.

As we all know,

well, we've discussed it before on a pod.

Grief is one of those things that comes and goes, and you have to live with eventually.

You have to accept it as part of your makeup.

And I think it's going to be part of Liverpool's makeup for some time to come.

There's an amazing image down of Ben Whiteman, the Preston captain, just going on his own and laying a wreath there and standing in front of the Liverpool fans.

And as John said,

you know, this was about Liverpool, but

Preston did an amazing job, actually.

I think,

yeah, like John says, Preston, a classy club, a traditional club.

I expected them to handle it well, and I think they handled it as well as you could do of something of this circumstance.

And same as John, I don't remember anything like this ever happening

since I've watched football.

Such a prominent current footballer playing for one of the greatest clubs in the world, passing in such a tragic manner.

And I find it difficult to talk about it and try and comprehend

what people will be going through, particularly those Liverpool players, because they're coming back to pre-season, expecting to, you know, this band of brothers that have just won the league, they're expecting to see their mate, someone who sounds like

he was an absolutely massive and huge part of that Liverpool dressing room, a very, very popular player.

And we're used to players coming and going in football, and I think a couple of Liverpool personnel have alluded to that.

But to lose someone in that way, someone that you definitely would have expected to be spending the whole season with, I think that's really, really hard.

And John's right, grief does hit you at different times and you go through the different periods of grief that come with loss like this.

But I think it's going to be really, really tough for Liverpool, a club that you know is lots of tragedy has happened to Liverpool, unfortunately, as a club.

And the fan base, unfortunately,

are used to having tragedies happen to them.

But I just think it's going to be, there's going to be times this season where they'll want to celebrate him.

And there's going to be times this season where they're going to find it really, really difficult and they're going to feel that loss.

Yeah, Ana Slot said, if we want to laugh we laugh if we want to cry we're going to cry if they want to train they can train if they don't want to train they cannot train but be yourself don't think you have to be different than your emotions tell you we will always carry him with us in our hearts in our thoughts wherever we go i think robin he just has actually

shown like real

statesman-like whatever the right word is just incredible emotional intelligence the way he's spoken and what an incredible difficult job that that he has to do and and I guess, you know, players are different, right?

For some players,

football will be, even though they're that good at it, what football is for most of us who clog around a pitch, it will be this amazing escape where they don't have to think about and they can, you know, and so playing might be perfect for some of these players and not playing and playing might be really difficult for other ones.

And having to manage all of that will be incredibly difficult.

He seems like the perfect person to do that, though.

When I read those quotes, it kind of blew me away, actually.

I was thinking, wow, this guy gets it.

You know, I'm personally, I'm very fortunate I've not lost anyone sort of prematurely that I've been really, really close to.

And, you know, it's almost, I think, as a sort of society, we're quite uncomfortable, aren't we, talking about death and grief?

And the way he summed that up, that it's okay, and saying Diogo Jota was himself the whole time, no matter what happened on and off the pitch.

And he just said, we should lead by his example.

Do what you need to do.

You're allowed to laugh.

You're allowed to cry.

You're allowed to say you're not up to this today.

And yeah, I think that's right.

We need to kind of be sensitive to the players' needs.

I'm sure it's not just him.

They probably knew his family as well.

They would have known his wife,

his children.

I think we can't underestimate the impact this is going to have.

And it's probably going to, as Dan said, this is going to have a huge impact

for the rest of the season and beyond, isn't it?

Because it's such a tragedy and a shock to the system that you don't, it's not something you get over.

It's going to be something that lives with them for the rest of their lives.

And, you know, people are going to try and analyse, I guess, their performances on the pitch and the sort of impact it has.

It's just kind of a bit pointless, really, isn't it?

I mean, that sort of comes back in it.

It's a very stark example and one that we, obviously, we all know, but a stark example of of whenever we're analysing footballers and

how well they're playing and whether they had a good game or whether they did this or did that.

You know, it is

an acknowledgement that it's always at

a kind of superficial level, you know, however deep we want to think we are, because we just don't know about every individual's feelings at any given moment.

And you can't always caveat that.

Like as the season goes on, you can't caveat every Liverpool game where they might have been feeling sad about this or, you know, his Portuguese teammates who who are playing or just you know anyone else who's been touched by that tragedy Liverpool have announced they're retiring the number 20 shirt which is a you know one of a number of amazing gestures that club has done and and

have continued to do elsewhere crystal palace have been demoted from the europa league to the europa conference league Steve Parrish has said they'll appeal Jon Texas involvement with Palace and French side Leon was deemed to have breached UEFA's multi-club ownership rules which state clubs with the same ownership group cannot play in the same competition any conflicts of interest for for next season had to be sorted by the 1st of March.

Steve Parrish said on Sky Sports, there's a real crossroads here for UEFA to look at.

Do they intervene and do the right thing, which is what I think they should do, which is what I think they want to do, or do they let this process play out and see probably one of the greatest injustices that's ever happened in European football?

He said in the same interview, remarkably, UEFA were emailing the general address, info at cpfc.co.uk, about the rule change in January, and that wasn't picked up.

Producer Joel says, I can sympathise as Football Weekly at theguardian.com gets sent to all sorts of crap, as well as brilliant listener emails.

It is fascinating, John, isn't it?

And I am left thinking, I spoke to Kevin Day yesterday, big Palace fan, host of Price of Football podcast.

And I think if I was a Palace fan, I'd think, you know what, if this was a bigger club, and I don't have any evidence for this, but if I was a Palace fan, I'd be thinking.

you know, they're sticking to the rules because it's us.

And I know every football, you know, fan thinks that's their club and there's an agenda, etc.

But I would just be left feeling that as a Palace fan.

I bet they'd have found a way let man united in yeah

crystal palace haven't been in the ua for camp before have they in you know in that those

you know the special um you know members club uh and this is their first time this thing about the email address is uh interesting that there's a few people have pointed out that they have actually in official documentation used this email address as well so right okay

so they're kicking it and But at this point, everyone has their own agenda about something like this, don't they?

Because they might be coming from the point of view that their club is under attack for its own

malfeasance with UEFA or whatever.

I think one of the things about Crystal Palace is that most people have sympathy for their plight.

They don't think that

they have, okay, they have sympathy for the fans, right?

Unless you're from Brighton or whatever, because you think that you've got,

I suppose, one thing is they've got the Conference League, and actually, the Conference League would be winnable if you were Crystal Palace, if West Ham could win it, or whatever.

The Europa League might not be winnable, but it's the fact that the prestige is greater in the Europa League, the money is greater, the fact that they might not be able to hold on to players like Eze if they drop into the Conference League, and that the drawbridge is being pulled away from them because of this practice of multi-club ownership that goes on across the game.

And the biggest clubs in Europe have this thing going.

But because they've dotted I's and crossed T's,

they get away with it.

And

Palace will fight.

Steve Parrish is a very able administrator.

He's a very able politician within the football framework.

It's probably not the last we've heard of it, but it's a shame because

so often what goes on the pitch where you watch Crystal Palace that joyous day when they beat Manchester City, and yet it's someone on a laptop in a room in Neon or whatever saying, actually,

we have a correction there

and, you know, the legal.

And who wins?

The lawyers, always.

So there we go.

Rules get broken in football all the time.

Let's be brutally honest about it.

Crystal Palace aren't the first club to break rules over the last five to ten years and to punish them in this way when I actually think they've got a good chance of winning the Europa League as well.

And then potentially that's Champions League football if they manage to win the Europa League.

And to demote them at kind of a time when nearly half the Premier League is going to be in Europe next season.

Just let them play.

Just let them stay where they are.

This has got to be rectified.

I think it's a real, real injustice.

And I agree.

I've got no proof like Max that if this was someone else, it wouldn't be getting handled in the same way.

Hello, Manchester City.

Well, yeah, I didn't want to pick anyone out, but yeah.

We're still waiting, aren't we?

We're still waiting.

Yeah, we are still waiting.

The beneficiaries of these are prolific complainers, Nottingham Forrest,

who are reportedly considering legal action over Tottenham's interest in midfield and Morgan Gibbs White.

Forrest are believed to be looking into whether a specific confidentiality agreement in the £60 million release clause in Gibbs White's contract has been breached.

It feels odd to have a release clause, but not...

be allowed to tell anyone what it is.

It's like, you know, Morgan Gibbs White signs for Forrest from Wolves and he says, okay, yeah, I want this much a week, finally.

And I've quite like like a release clause.

Let's call it 60.

I mean, he says, Okay, well, you can have that, but you cannot tell anybody what it is.

Like, what is this?

Like, what is that?

How is that surely a release clause is literally that?

It's just like, if you want this guy, this is what you want.

I understand.

And, like, like tapping up, clearly, someone says, Would you be interested in joining?

Like, someone text someone, otherwise, what are they going to do?

Like, I don't know.

I wasn't aware that you were allowed to have a secret release clause because no, me neither.

You think of you think of

over in Spain, you have

say athletic bilbauer that do all their deals by release clause it's like this guy will cost you this much you need to pay that money into this account like a shop like a shop yeah exactly yeah well you're like buying something as far as i'm aware it is illegal to sell something without putting a price on it isn't it you know you you can't just sort of go in and go it's one of those things where you mentioned notting forest they do get involved in stuff like this a fair bit i think that's probably where we should leave it because they get involved in stuff like this a fair bit it's to do with the fact that Gibbs White is such a franchise player, for want of a better phrase for them.

The thought of losing him would, you know, could

forests aren't in Europe, of course, next season, and they would lose a play like that.

Yeah, this whole idea that, okay, well, you bid this much and somehow trigger this, and that he's got to go, but then you can't trigger it because you weren't supposed to know.

What?

What happens if Tottenham bid 75 million then?

Would they just say, okay, that's fine, that's fine.

And no one ever knows about this clause.

But like, do what do you do?

Do you ring them up and say, does Morgan Gibbs White have a release clause?

And they say, I'm not telling you.

And then you go, okay, I bid a pound.

And it's not like championship manager where you only have three goes.

You bid, you know, a million, two million, three million.

No, no, no.

And that was it.

That was your chance.

You know, you could just go two pounds, three pounds.

And eventually they'll go, okay, you know, like,

I don't know.

And I'm not objecting to.

Did Arsenal do it with Suarez?

Yeah.

They bid a pound over a release clause.

But again,

I think in that case, Dan, they weren't supposed to know either.

So obviously, this isn't the first time that's happened.

And the inference is, I suppose, that someone, some other operator, presumably an agent, has let it slip that

this is what it'll cost you to get my boy to your club.

And that's where

this is the illegal tapping up thing.

Now, all of us will know that certain players arrive at a club and it's not the first time they've spoken to that club when they arrive on that day.

What's that footage of,

I think it's Patrick Vieira arrives at Manchester City, and he, Gary Cook, hey, brother, and all this.

It's like, well, you two aren't supposed to know each other or whatever.

It's one of those things where we all know it goes on, you know, but we're not quite at the

service stations and brown envelopes

of days gone by.

It's the transfer business.

Players are up for sale.

Gibbs White is a player that was linked with Manchester City earlier on in the transfer window.

He's linked with other clubs.

Tottenham put in a bid.

There you go.

I do quite admire Forrest's kind of siege mentality in a way with all these issues.

Like we've said, they are serial complainers, but essentially...

They've messed up because they've put a release clause in the contract that is probably undervaluing their asset.

I know from experience that when Villa sold Jack Greelage to Manchester City for 100 million, when they put that 100 million clause in the contract, they didn't think anyone was ever going to pay that.

And Manchester City did.

Forest essentially have undervalued an asset.

And my feeling with this is that they'll speak to each other, Tottenham and Forest, and they'll resolve it.

And maybe Tottenham will have to pay a little bit more than 60 million.

And then Forrest will be happy.

But I think Forrest on this occasion, like I say, there's elements of it I admire.

but it's kind of their mistake.

I like the idea that, you know, all players in their first interview have to appear completely shocked that this is where they've turned up.

Like, I had absolutely no idea until a minute ago.

Like, we haven't met before.

I suddenly found myself in North London.

I didn't know where I was going.

They got a blindfold on me and here I am.

Victor Yokores is trying to force a move to Arsenal.

He's not training with sporting at the moment.

What have you made of Villa's transfer business?

So far, has there been any down?

Well, yeah, but I've not made much of it because nothing's really happened.

So it's probably the shortest segment on a podcast ever.

I don't think Villa are going to be particularly active.

I think obviously not qualifying for the Champions League and the financial rules has hindered them a little bit.

They haven't sold that kind of big player that we were expecting yet.

But I do feel that they, to be able to reshape the squad and be able to make multiple signings, they will have to sell someone who that is.

I don't know.

But probably the biggest thing to come off the back of the transfer window so far is that they won't be buying Marco Vicencio, who I think everyone expected them to buy because now they're in the Europa League, not the Champions League, and we've got all these rules.

Essentially, we can't afford his wages and can't justify his wages.

So, been

a quiet summer so far.

Andy Carroll will play sixth-tier football next season after signing for National League side Dagenham and Redbridge on a free transfer.

He's reportedly taken a minority stake in the club as part of a Qatari-led takeover.

Have you ever been down there to the Daggers?

I've never been to the Daggers, but interesting that you have.

Oh, I have.

Okay.

Tell me more.

Well, I live in East London, and it's still a long way away.

It is a long way out of East London.

Proper Essex.

Yeah, and my memory is: I've got to see Michaelsfield play there, is that the main back in those days, and this would be, say, 10, 15 years ago, the main sponsor was a funeral directors.

And I remember the advert said, the oldest business in Dagenham.

And I thought, you know, that's probably right.

Anyway, well, good luck, Demanded Carol.

We're, as I said, we were taking two off.

Baz is

traipsing around Nova Scotia, a bit like alone.

He's like that.

He's doing the reality show alone, where he has to find and kill a moose to eat it to survive.

I am going to get over PTSD of taking two small children on a 24-hour flight.

Pray for me, Robin.

Pray for me.

I'm sending you so good vibes.

And yeah,

the fewest arched backs and sick episodes.

Are you coming to see Oasis, Max?

Is that all you're flying over?

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

I'm just flying over just for the gig and then back again.

Anyway, that'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Dan.

Thank you, Max.

Thanks, Robin.

Thank you, Max.

Cheers, John.

Cheers, Max.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Phil May.

This is The Guardian.