Chelsea into the Club World Cup final and England’s crunch Euro test – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Jiao Pedro fires Chelsea into the Club World Cup final.

Two brilliant goals from the former Fluminese man who was sitting on the beach in Brazil last week.

Has he repaid his transfer fee already?

Is Mareska building something half decent here?

Or do we only find out if and when his team wins the Premier League or falls apart in exhaustion in March?

Meanwhile, FIFA rents a spot in Trump Tower, which feels bad, but maybe doesn't matter.

We'll cross to Switzerland, the head of England's must-win game against the Netherlands.

Sweden eased into the quarterfinals.

Germany didn't ease, but still made them yesterday.

Also, football is back as the Champions League gets underway.

There's some more transfer stuff.

The Langa to Newcastle, the big headline of the day.

The regulators voted through by parliament and we'll answer your questions and that's today's guardian football weekly

on the panel today barry glen denning hello hi max welcome lars sivetson hi max and good morning jonathan faduber good morning max Let's start then with the Club World Cup.

Fluminese-Nil, Chelsea 2.

Two brilliant goals for Giao Pedro.

Didn't celebrate against the side that he played for from when he was 10 years old.

He almost did after the second and then remembered, but perhaps just very excited that it had just gone in off the bar, which is a beautiful way for any goal to be scored.

And, Barry, what an impact from him?

He was on holidays, as you say, last week,

got joined up with the Chelsea squad, went straight into the team because Liam DeLap was suspended for this game and

scored two wonderful goals against his former side.

So it's a stunning

full debut for him.

They really were good goals.

And if I was Nicholas Jackson, I'd be looking on going, hmm, this isn't great for me, I think, because I suspect he is now very much third in the Chelsea striker pecking order.

But it was a good win for Chelsea.

I'm not sure how much you can read into it because Fum and Ense

aren't as good as most of the teams Chelsea are used to facing.

Thiago Silva in defence, you know, he's very slow, et cetera, and so on.

And we're still not quite sure what to make of this competition.

There's still a bit of a pre-season vibe about it.

But Chelsea have now made 80 million quid out of it and could make more.

And

they've got to be happy with that.

Yeah.

Are you surprised, Jonathan, that

more teams didn't go in for Pedro or that it seemed quite straightforward for Chelsea to get it?

Yeah, I'm quite surprised to be fair.

Given the price tag, I think, which is stated at around 50 million, which is in this day and age, I suppose, when you've got sort of M Buemo

still haggling around for sort of 60 million and you've got other players who've gone for maybe more,

I think it's a fair price tag.

And so from that point of view, I think I'm all surprised maybe others didn't go in for him.

I think he could have definitely benefited the team like Manchester United, definitely benefited a few other teams.

The benefit of Pedro is that he can play in any position, which is what Maresko also said after the game

in his praise of him.

He can play kind of as a striker as a number nine who can sort of run in behind.

He can play on either side as his goals came from sort of cutting in, didn't they, from the left-hand side and curling in with his right foot.

And it can also play as a 10 or maybe on the right-hand side.

So he offers Chelsea great depth in that position, forward area, more so than, say, Jackson, who can, as Mareska put it, can only play as a nine.

So certainly you can see where he's thinking in terms of what he's planning with the team.

And as Barry says there, maybe it looks bad for for jackson uh there was an interesting moment i thought when um towards the end of the game when jackson was on when he had a chance didn't he in the 80th minute or so and yeah uh he he he dragged it wide and and i've never seen cole palmer so animated he was fuming wasn't he kick kicked the post going mad i've not seen cole palmer's usually quite calm but that's the most animated i've seen him and he was very annoyed with jackson so yeah i think more teams should have been in for pedro and i really like him the only thing maybe that maybe stopped teams was perhaps towards the end of the season he had a few disciplinary issues didn't he around Brighton and there was a few tight you know there's one elbow that he did where he wasn't sent off then then he had one red card and then he had a sort of training grand bust up so maybe all in all that maybe factored into some teams decisions to sort of leave it but no I think the goals were fantastic and he's a really good player yeah so in the name of like honest uh podding i'm going to say exactly the thing about joão pedro that i would have said ahead of the game yesterday

and not his impact in the game notwithstanding and then you can judge how daft that sounds or not i would have said like in terms of his signing my take would have been he's clearly a really good player he's very technical he's tenacious uh but he's not a proven goal scorer in that sense like he got 10 for brighton last season he got nine the season before and he doesn't get that many shots off like he's not an obvious sort of goal poacher in the box and i just feel chelsea the thing they've been short on is is goals from that number nine position whereas what draw pedro really excels at is like his his passing numbers are incredible for a striker in terms of like passes into the penalty area and progressive passes and passes into the final third.

He's almost like more of a facilitator than a goal scorer is what I would have said ahead of the game.

And then that happened.

Like there's two just incredible finishes on his debut when he just looks right at home.

I think, wow.

So if he can bring that sort of technical quality we've seen, like the way he sets up the first goal is actually when you, it looks a bit innocuous the first time.

But watch the replay, like the way he kind of intercepts the ball and plays a great through ball to, I think it was Neto in the same movement there.

I mean, that's the kind of stuff that I would expect to see from Jao Pedro.

That's the kind of stuff that he really like shines at.

But then taking up that position and just like pulling off that incredible finish.

Like if he's going to add brilliant finishing and spectacular goals to what he's already shown he can do, then that is really good news for Chelsea.

So this might have been a one-off and maybe he'll go back to not scoring a ton of goals again.

But wow,

that is quite something if he can keep doing it.

Greg says, shouldn't the Club World Cup rosters have been frozen when the tournament started?

It seems a bit unfair.

Wealthier clubs can add impact players.

In Pedro's case, he just had a few weeks off to rest.

It does feel, I mean, obviously you can buy players during the season, Barry, you know, with the transfer windows.

And so, like, in the FA Cup or the League Cup if they're not cup tied.

But this does feel like,

you know, once you've picked your squad for the World Cup, you've picked your squad for the World Cup barring some crazy injury thing.

Does it feel like Chelsea just going to get someone off the beach who's really good?

Does it feel a bit harsh on Fluminese?

Yeah, I hadn't really thought of that, but I suppose it does make sense.

If you've picked your squad, then that should be that, unless maybe you have a goalkeeping crisis or something.

And some would say Chelsea do have an ongoing goalkeeping crisis, but that's another story.

Yeah, maybe.

I suppose.

I guess so, but I don't think it matters a huge amount.

As I've said,

I'm still not sure how much people, including players, the clubs involved, how seriously they're taking this competition.

Obviously, once you get to the knockout stages, you might as well try and go all the way.

But

if it was a major international tournament, that would not, you would not be allowed to draft in a new player.

So interesting you make that point about, because I'm the same, Jonathan.

I just can't work out, do they care?

Are they cosplaying caring about a tournament?

You know, when they run, when they run down the touchline, you know, when all the coaching staff hug each other, they're like, if we make it look like we care care as much as we'd care if this was the Champions League, then other people will think we care and then they'll think they care and then we will care.

I'm sort of lost as I have been throughout this tournament about how I'm meant to care about this and sort of how the clubs themselves, apart from the sort of beam counters who want the money.

I think that you could split it between the European teams and the non-European teams, the Brazilian teams.

the African teams,

the rest, in other words, care a lot.

The Argentinian teams, for example, the fan base, I mean, even the atmosphere in terms of Fluminenzi fans.

I know ticket pricing and things like that, there's been issues around the pricing of it and maybe lack of demand.

But for those who can get tickets from those regions, it meant a lot to Fluminenzi, for example.

It's a huge game for them.

And that played into why Gio Pedro mentioned after the match why he didn't celebrate because he knew how much,

quote-unquote, he said he knew how much it meant to Fluminenzi that tournament.

So he didn't want to kind of rub it in having left, although he did leave, I think, 2019 was when he went to Watford.

so but for the european teams i think they care but it's like you said it's it's probably more of a bit of a money money making exercise than necessarily going for gold going for the trophy uh you just mentioned there how much money i mean gio pedro nearly paid half his transfer fee in one night didn't he from from the goals he scored um i think i'm wrong actually it was 55 million plus five minute add-ons by the way not 50 million so just correct myself on that but i think he earned them about 20 million in one night from the from the the goals he scored but for the yeah through the european teams i mean you take someone like pep guardiola and i think luis and require as well said the same thing at psg where he essentially said listen we're here we'll train um during the day and then we'll do literally nothing you can players can go play golf they can go for a barbecue i think that they need they can do whatever they want basically after that between the games and between the training sessions go to the diner that's like go to a midwest diner and drown themselves in ribs i listen it's all it's all on yeah so they care but i think it's there's a realization that obviously i mean mean, the first Premier League games are in about four weeks' time, aren't they?

So there's a limit to their caring because they have to also factor in the European season that's coming up.

One imagines as well that they're probably on very hefty bonuses to do well in this competition.

So there is that motivation as well.

I have noticed a distinct uptick in the caring and the effort.

The XC and the XE, if you will, the expected caring and the expected effort has there has been a noticeable uptick in it in the knockout stages, I feel.

In the group stage, a lot of these games felt like is so typical summer U.S.

exhibition games.

But there has been more of an effort.

And I do think if you're Chelsea, right?

This tournament has already kind of messed up your summer.

I'm sure Baz is completely correct that some very generous bonus arrangements has been made to, again, get the XC a little bit higher for the lads.

But this summer has definitely, this tournament has messed up your summer.

You're going to spend less time on that yacht and you're going to go into the next season not fully refreshed.

But you're you're here now, you're in the semifinal.

And if you can just get through this, there's a final, some kind of final against like PSG or El Madrid.

You are clearly desperate to get to that.

Like you've already, you've already come all this way.

You've played all these games in the heat.

The summer's a mess.

Like, can we please at least have a show of peace final against a great team out of it?

Like, must be tremendously good for them.

And I don't think there was anything fake about the celebrations or anything.

I don't,

it must be like, it must be a good feeling.

Yeah.

Uh, for Flaminente, they look, Coca-Cola cleared one off the line at 1-0.

They did get a penalty.

Trevor Chalibut, a judge to have handled the ball.

Thank the Lord it was overturned because it was in the most natural position an arm has ever been.

I was about to give up football for good again.

I did think about you when that happened.

I know, like, this will actually drive Max completely insane.

If it stands, people do.

There was a bit of Maresco sort of was put in his place by a Brazilian journalist when he was talking about, look, how many official matches have brazilian teams played this season we've played 63 some listeners saying kind of forgetting that he did have a spare team to play the conference league um the journalist the brazilian journalist said we've played 70 actually uh

and i i thought brazil was in partway through their season so it does show how little i know about south american leagues i don't know if anyone else is across more about how many matches i haven't done after menenzi in the red zone i do you know i have heard that they play a lot of games because there is like the national championship.

Do they play the state championship as well?

I think

there are a lot of games, but I will defer as always in these matters to the great Tim Vickery, who says that the Brazilian teams have been laser-focused on the Club World Cup.

They've been rotating players in the league to keep them fresh for the Club World Cup.

Their physical preparations have been geared to make sure they're peaking around the Club World Cup, which fair to say, Chelsea have not done.

Yeah.

PSG Real Madrid tonight.

Kenyan Mbappe would obviously like to start against this former club.

Gonzalo Garcia has been one of Real's standout players so far, Jonathan.

I mean, you can pick both of them, I guess.

Can't you?

Arde Gula's played very well as well.

It's interesting to see what Xiabi Alonso is doing with this team.

Yeah,

he's kind of come out of this tournament,

you know, smelling the roses, really, the way he's showed some tactical...

tweaks and a bit of nouse.

I think he's stylistically a very different coach to Angelotti, really, isn't he?

He's a lot more maybe interventionist rather than Angelotti's sort of style, which is a bit more hands-off.

That does work at a club like Real Madrid, and he had such a huge amount of success, but then it also became kind of a stone to beat him with towards the end of his time there.

Whereas Alonso's come in and he's made some really good tactical tweaks in games,

the use of Goulaire, the use of kind of like the way he's shifted sort of trends

positioning in games, maybe going from switching his defence

three to four, five men, however you want to sort of describe it.

But yeah, I think he's come out of it very well.

To be fair, I think Mareska also comes out this, just to go back to Chelsea briefly.

I think he comes out of this with a lot of credit as well.

I think Chelsea are the one team where there's probably, alongside Rumbud, maybe genuinely, this tournament has genuinely helped them to sort of move forward towards next season.

I think Chelsea have looked a lot more fluid.

They've looked a lot more confident.

They look a lot more developed as a team now compared to, say, even two, three months ago when they were in that sort of end of the season running.

I saw them against Ipswich and from then to now, they look a lot better, like structured.

The use of the right-hand side side with sort of Gustavo in yesterday's game and sort of Palmer and Kunku really worked quite well, the interchanges.

So I think Chelsea really have started to sort of blossom as a team, to be honest, from this sort of team that didn't really look like they had much about them.

And I think Real Madrid are kind of looking similar in the sense that, you know, he's been able to go without Mbepe with the injury that he's had.

Carcia has kind of emerged and started to look like a real option out front.

Trent has come in and done really well, I think, in terms of he's just adapting straight away and offering something different in terms of his creativity, his ability to sort of get into midfield positions as well.

So, there's a lot to like about what Alonso's done with Real Madrid, and I think it's exciting times for their fans as well.

So,

I'd still probably have PSG as favourites.

I think, still think PSG are the best team in Europe, really, which they've demonstrated already.

But Real Madrid will give them a game.

Yeah, I mean, it is, I mean, the difficult thing is you just don't, like, Chelsea might hit the ground running because they've, you know, they're well-tuned and then they might fall apart in February.

We just have to wait for a season, won't we, to see the impact of the Club World Cup.

Alexander Abnos writing in The Guardian that FIFA's relationship with the US President Donald Trump now has a physical, tangible marker.

FIFA's opened an office in Trump Tower in New York City.

The announcement of the new office came on Monday.

FIFA placed the Club World Cup trophy on display in the lobby of the skyscraper in an event attended by several FIFA dignitaries, including Jani, R9 Ronaldo, and Eric Trump,

son of the president.

Does this matter, Barry?

No, I don't think so.

We know that Infantino has already rented a space in Donald Trump's colon.

What an image, Barry.

It seems a natural extension that he should also have a space in Trump Tower.

So, yeah, I don't think it makes any difference.

We know how sycophantic Gianni Infantino is.

And

if the World Cup is being staged in America, Canada, Mexico next summer, then it seems, you know, one presumes FIFA have U.S.

offices already, but

yeah, I don't think it makes any difference.

There is a real FIFA heritage here, because, of course, famously, Chuck Blazer, the

charming sort of corruption enthusiast, turned whistleblower, had

he's both convicted and dead, so I'm pretty sure I can say that.

And he had two apartments in Trump Tower, of which one was dedicated entirely to his cats, I believe.

Yes.

So, I mean, that's something Johnny hasn't quite done yet.

He hasn't gotten a cat flat in Trump Tower.

Maybe that is the next step to just go full blazer and get one for his pets as well.

Such an extraordinary use of dodgy money, isn't it?

Like so much money that you rent an apartment for some cats.

I mean, that is just, I mean, look.

I love, I miss my cats from when I was a kid, you know,

wherever Orlando is now, you know, what a wonderful guy he was.

But at the same time, I wouldn't rent an apartment in a skyscraper for him.

Before we end part one, Barry, we should, and you told me to do this for the tape,

mention Mbappe versus PSG.

Yeah, I just thought we had undersold that in the preview for this game because I think it's absolutely massive.

We spoke about Jao Pedro's pointed non-celebration against his former team, Fluminense.

It would be interesting to see what Killian Mbappe does if he scores against PSG,

his boyhood club.

He is currently suing them for fifty five million euros in unpaid wages, which they claim he waived.

They're counter-suing him for a figure of almost twice that amount.

On Monday, he he withdrew a legal claim accusing PSG of extortion and harassment.

So there's a massive animosity there between PSG and Mbappe, which Mbappe has tried to play down and which Khalifi has tried to play down.

But I think this is this is a massive game.

Mbappe, I mean, Sid wrote an article yesterday in which he sort of flagged up that despite scoring 44 goals this season, his first season for Real Madrid, Mbappe is the pollster boy for their failure.

And he he he left PSG to win the Champions League with Real Madrid.

And as soon as he left PSG to win the Champions League with Real Madrid, PSG won the Champions League without him.

So I think this is a massive, massive needle match.

Yeah, I quite like the idea of playing down, suing someone for 55 million.

This doesn't really matter.

You know, it's sort of, it's just, it's just I's and dotting I's and crossing T's.

Rather than muted celebrations, we could get lawsuit-themed celebrations.

I mean, that would be very good.

I'm not quite sure how he would mime some sort of gavel being hit or something would be going on there.

I'm also in a very, while you think about that, max i am also very fascinated by the sporting side of this because mbape i think would be many many people shout for the best player in the world right now right that's not a controversial thing to say but he has psg did get better after he left and real madrid got less good after he arrived that that could be coincidental but that's just what happened and xavi alonso i think The interesting thing about the emergence of Gonzalo Garcia is that he is a forward who actually moves around when he doesn't have the ball, which is an exciting, innovative thing for Real Madrid to now have.

And Xavi Alonso has been very cryptic about this stuff.

After they beat Salzburg, he talked about

everyone's sacrifice was important.

Without that, it's impossible nowadays, he said, about like defensive work.

And then a week later, after they,

after another, in another presser, he talked about how it's very important that we press as a unit all 11 players.

So he's already starting to like the process of trying to make Mbappe realize that you do kind of have to make an effort when you don't have the ball as well.

And it's so fascinating to me that we have these superstars in the game who are like such

who dominate in terms of the PR and in terms of the popularity and stuff.

But so many of them end up becoming like difficult to deal with in a tactical sense because they don't want to do the work off the ball and it causes real problems for coaches and putting them into successful teams.

We had the whole psychodrama of the latter stage of Cristiano Ronaldo's career.

There's a few other players you can mention who's in that bracket.

At what point do the sort of golden boys realize that actually to be that kind of complete player, to be that kind of superstar they see themselves as, you actually have to make an effort off the ball as well?

I mean, I suppose for a legal celebration, you'd need to somebody on the bench would have to have a briefcase and maybe a little table and then some power suits and then you, you know, they'd all you'd sit opposite each other and then like shake hands or something like that.

Does require a lot of prep.

Do you think like Tromeni and Valverde could like form kind of bench and Arda Güler could sit behind it and then Jude Bellingham could object somewhere.

Like there, it could be done.

It's a little elaborate.

But as we've said, they have a lot of time off during this tournament.

They don't have to.

Yeah, sorry, Los.

I tried to end part one about 25 minutes ago before your previous answer.

I will do it right now.

And Nick Hames will join us from Switzerland and we'll talk about Euro 2025.

HiPod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

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We already know that Remarkable's the leader in the paper tablet category, digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable paper pro move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist Barry although not like you

a proper football journalist man exactly too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out this paper tablet doesn't it'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you it has a display that looks feels and even sounds like paper think and work like a writer not a texter and the battery performance is amazing no worries about running out of power before the end of extra time the remarkable paper pro move can keep going for up to two weeks.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Let's cross to Lucerne.

Lovely spot there for Nick Ames.

Welcome, Nick.

Hello, Max.

How are you?

Yeah, very good.

You're in your hotel room.

If any of this makes it to a little Instagram clip, people will see that behind you is sort of a large painting of a lady.

I mean, it's not an offensive painting at all.

It's just quite a large painting in the hotel room behind you.

Anyway, you were at Sweden, Poland yesterday.

Sweden are through Norway, through Germany and Spain as well, probably Italy as well to the quarterfinals so far.

Pretty straightforward for Sweden last night.

Yeah, it was a fairly, I would say routine, but they were a bit better than that wing over

a quite limited Poland side, who, as we know, were the debutants

in the tournament.

They're now out.

I think

the stat that was going around was that they're the first team ever, not to score in their first two games of a women's Euros, but that was a little bit harsh, I think.

They could have scored at the end with a really nice shot against the post, but Sweden, who were backed fantastically, as usual, by hordes of yellow shirts, really filling up Lucerne, Lucerne, which is a beautiful lakeside setting.

Um, were really impressive.

They've got a lot of strength down the core of the team.

They've got a lot of experience that wasn't even in the starting 11 yesterday, like Rolfo and Magda Erickson.

They've got some cracking players that we know a lot about, like Khasavar Aslani and Cena Blattsinius, who were both on target.

And

they've got some fantastic pace down the wings.

Ritin Cannerid of Chelsea put in probably the best individual performance I might have seen since being out in Switzerland in the last 10 days.

And

they scored three, could probably have scored quite a few more than that.

Should England finish in second place

or in first place, but I think in second place there is a pretty good chance they could meet them because I would back Sweden to win that group at the moment, which is a group including Germany.

And I think if they draw with Germany every weekend, that they are guaranteed to do so.

So yeah, Sweden,

a bit of a force that has faded slightly from people's thoughts in the last 10, 20 years, but I wouldn't sleep on them at the moment.

I was very impressed with what I saw here last night.

Yeah, I mean, optimistic to start looking ahead to permutations for England at this stage, I would say.

As you say, also in that group, Germany played Denmark.

Denmark were one up a half-time, had chances to go two up.

Two goals in the second half meant that Germany are through as well.

The second was quite funny because a Denmark defender actually hammered the ball into another Denmark defender's head and then sort of polaxed her and then it bounced back to the Germans who went and scored.

Before we talk about England, we also knew, Nick, that Spain were clear favourites before.

They have looked imperious, haven't they, in these two games?

They have.

I mean, I guess their rivals will always be looking at the bits they can get at.

And

they were pegged back, albeit briefly, a couple of times by a sort of fairly modest belgium side the other night but look going going forward and some of their attacking combinations and the variety of their finishing and the chances that they create they do look a cut above everyone else i i i saw them play against portugal last week which was obviously that that very difficult night for portugal admittedly on the the day that um diego hotter um tragically died and they

started from minute one and didn't let up in an incredible first 45 minutes and I think they've got the gears to go through where they they can probably when they're playing better teams pick them off as well but I think Sweden honestly last night were probably the team behind Spain that I've been most impressed with so far in terms of balance and attacking variety right let's talk about England then they play the Netherlands it is must-win Nick isn't it's basically this is the knockouts beginning for them now isn't it It comes down to this, and it's maybe not a position that England wanted to be in at this point.

It's definitely not a position they wanted to be in at this point.

But

I guess there's a hope that knockout football

such as this has brought out the best of them in the last few tournaments.

And they've also rarely pulled out two duds consecutively under Serena Wiegman,

who I think has been quite impervious to the criticism that I think she's rightly received since the France game.

I would stand by the assertion that a few of her selections weren't quite at it.

I think maybe picked one or two players who, well, one or two players too many who weren't fully fit in the middle of a park against a very lively, dynamic, athletic, slick as well, advanced team.

So I think the selections will be very important today.

Do you stick with Lauren James?

Do you stick with Georgia Stanway?

Do you stick with both of them?

Do you maybe give Clinton a go?

Ella Toom, where does she come

into the mix?

It'll be interesting to see exactly which way she goes.

A point is probably not enough today unless you fancy a big goal scoring shootout against wales and leaving things to chance on the final match day so big game and this is hopefully the kind of occasion that england do relish and I'd probably back them to edge it but I think it's going to be very very close.

They'll be well backed in Zurich tonight.

I'm going to be there looking forward to it.

The Dutch will be as well.

I think it'll be a cracking atmosphere in there.

And let's see.

And all of an England persuasion will keep their fingers closed.

I suppose the interesting thing, Barry, is if England don't make it, what the fallout will be, you know, to go from winning the Euros, getting to the World Cup final to not getting out of your group, however difficult this group is.

Yeah.

And I think we've mentioned before that these players and Serena Viegman are not used to being criticised.

They've largely got a very easy and and there's no reason real reason why they should have been criticised because they've done very well in recent years.

But it will be interesting to see how they react to any criticism they get uh if they are knocked out after two games i suspect some of them might not take it particularly well and what i find interesting actually is the

so if you look at the england men's team and the press pack that follow them there's quite a distance between them but the press pack that follow the women's team they're very close to the players and you know a lot of them are friends they all know each other very very well much better than the england players and the ladies and gentlemen that follow the the england men's team so it'll be interesting to see how any failure and it would be a failure if they go out after two games will be covered a lot of them have never had to cover a failing england team some of those people who have followed the england women's team for a long time are also sort of have had to be champions for the sport in the way that yeah you know following the england men's team you don't have to champion it because it's just everyone's watching it i actually i think it's a really interesting point you make from what i've heard so far you know from you know like susie and tom as well but also listening to sort of ellen white and steph horton they've not been

they've they've they haven't done it in an angry way but they have been critical like i haven't heard anybody say you know try to sugarcoat what happened and actually to be fair to the players themselves and i don't know if you've seen this nick they haven't sugarcoated how bad they were against france either no they haven't and i've i think the tone has probably quite rightly been that of a critical trend, really, from the media pack in the last few days.

And it almost mirrors the way things

have developed on the terraces as well, or the stands, because

you won't go to an England women's game and see them get booed off with sort of rabid chants and gestures and things that you might see if England men are drawing with Andorra at half-time or something like that.

But I think

you will hear the odd grumble if things aren't going so well.

And it's kind of developing in parallel.

And I think

it's been, I think, quite a healthy response to Saturday's game.

I think

that

there were points that inescapably you can't sugarcoat and gloss over, but also it is not at this point a catastrophe.

We've seen many occasions across multiple tournaments, whether it's men's or women's tournaments, where the ultimate finalists or title winners lose their first match or underperform quite badly in their first match.

I mean, parallel with men's football, obvious one, Argentina losing to Saudi Arabia in Qatar.

So

I think

there will be a big inquest if it goes wrong tonight.

And it might be the most difficult one that England have had to face in a very long time because of the way the media coverage around the game has grown and the

way the bar has been set by Serena Wiegman in the last few years.

But I think it's also quite healthy in a way that the sport gets used to that kind of to and fro and that slightly more demanding style of questioning when necessary.

Can I also just throw in?

I'll confess I'm fairly ignorant on the subject, but I expect quite a few of our listeners are as well.

France are a really good team, right?

Actually, losing to France is not like a complete, massive, embarrassing slip-up.

They've gotten a tough draw here with both France and the Netherlands in their group.

And getting a point from that game would have been very good, obviously, but it's not a catastrophical, everyone has to be sacked and everything has to be thrown out the window type of result, even if the performance wasn't good.

Yeah, I mean, I think it was the nature of the performance rather than the defeat itself.

They just looked so flat or just so second best, actually, apart from getting it launched,

the start of the game and the last 10 minutes.

Norway have won both their games last top of Group A.

Boom.

Here we go.

Not super convincing, but getting the job done.

Yeah, we'll take it.

I mean,

what are the expectations of Norway?

I think the expectations are kind of tempered by the fact that there have been some disappointments.

Like we have really good players on paper, but it hasn't always worked out.

So the hopes are that they'll give a much better account of themselves than as has been the case in previous tournaments.

So these sort of

slightly

jammy, let's call them that, actually, jammy wins are

at least the wins are happening and it's early in the tournament and it gives them a platform to kind of grow into it properly.

Nick,

we'll leave you there.

But when we have heard of 30 Euro mediocre pizzas, 35 euros for some sun cream or whatever it was.

What have you been overcharged for in Switzerland?

My life was saved last night when at about half twelve in the morning a guy from UEFA came round the press room with a load of sort of hot dog sausages that clearly

hadn't been eaten by the glitterati in VIP.

So I pilfered a couple of those for

three.

No,

I've toned things down, Max, in the last two or three days, food wise, because you get a bit excited early on and think, I'm in Switzerland, and then

you have a couple of rusties, a couple of fondus here and there, and you realise you might have to remortgage,

or or or have a or have a a a serious begging ball going out to be uh accounts department um so um

uh so no it's it's it's been fairly austere for me

since the weekend yeah okay well we'll start a crowdfunder fondue for ames and we'll see see how it gets

enjoy the game thanks bout thank you uh nick ames there out in lucerne and that'll do for part two uh we'll start part three with some transfer stuff

hi pod fans of america max here barry's here too.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

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Must be 18 years or older to purchase, play, or claim.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Newcastle United have agreed a £55 million fee with Nottingham Forest for Anthony Alanger.

What do you think of this, Jonathan?

Quite interesting that they've got like Harvey Barnes and Anthony Gordon who sort of play on that side, I guess.

Is that

a step up in quality?

I like him.

I think he's a really good player, and I don't think he should ever really have been sold by Manchester United.

But then, again,

I'm not sure what they really are doing these days in the transfer market.

So I won't go there for now.

I think he's earned the right to maybe play in a Champions League club.

I'm quite surprised Forrest have

been relatively okay about letting him go as well.

I mean, the price is about the same price as Gio Pedro, which I think Giel Pedro is probably maybe worth worth a bit more.

55 million seems to be quite a lot, but at the same time, you know, a young winger, Elanga's only, you know, 23, so he's still got a lot of room for development.

He offers a lot of directness

on that side.

I saw a sort of a quip that maybe this is a sort of a play to have another Swedish compatriot around Alexander Isak and keep him around.

So maybe that's the conspiracy theorists there.

I've got something to say about that.

But no, I think Elanga's a really good player, like I say.

He'll offer that directness that Anthony Gordon has on the left-hand side.

I think I'm trying to remember who at Newcastle they played on the right because it wasn't just Barnes.

Jacob Murphy and Murphy

Murphy had a good season, but I think he's maybe got a bit of a ceiling.

And I think Alanga offers a little bit more dynamism.

So from the point of view of the fact that they can rotate, you know, he's still at the club, I think that that makes sense.

And he's, you know, younger and also can do a little bit more, I think, in terms of his directness, getting in crosses in for Islak or whoever it might be up front if anything changes there.

But no, I think it's a really good transfer.

And of course, there's the salon that I think Manchester United owed a bit of money for that.

So that might ease the burdens of the failed Amazon documentary that has been talked about in recent days.

Yeah, well, we'll get to that.

We'll get to that.

I mean, I like the idea of, you know, Eddie Howe buying Stefan Schwartz and Glenn Hussain, just filling it with sweets, just so Alexander Isak wants to stay at last.

Can I offer a counterpoint?

It's good when we don't always agree on the podcast.

I'm completely baffled by this transfer.

So this could be one of those.

If he scores a bunch of goals, you can replay this and Jonathan

can claim victory.

But I think this is a baffling transfer fee for a player who I like in the sense that he's a hard-working guy.

He's fast.

You know, he brings some things.

Just feel like he was in the perfect spot.

I think playing for this super counter-attacking Nuno Forest was like a place that was really getting the best out of his skill set.

Whereas presumably, Eddie Howe is trying to build something a little bit more ambitious at Newcastle, a team that's want to dominate games.

And I know Eddie Howe likes a good lad who works hard and he will get that.

But I just feel 55 million for a player who has a lot of limitations, in my view, is a baffling transfer fee.

And

I'd be surprised if we got far over double figures with him in terms of goals or assists.

And I just think for that kind of money, you can buy a lot of really good players around Europe.

And I don't get it at all is what I want to put in there.

But we will see.

One of us will be right right and the other will be wrong, and that it will be exciting to see which one way and which way goes.

Would you like the casting vote, Barry?

Are you baffled?

No, I think it'll be a good signing.

I think he's Jacob Murphy did have a good, very good season last time around.

I think a lot of people were surprised by what a good season he had.

And I do think

Langa is a significant upgrade.

Interestingly, I saw footage recently of Sean Longstaff taking a wicket.

He was playing cricket,

fast bowler, took a brilliant wicket and he he's been linked with leads but he he might be signed by durham maybe uh if the evidence of what i saw is anything to go by uh john duran has joined fenabace on a year-long loan six months after moving to al-nasser from aston villa for 71 million pounds a lot slightly surprised that no one from the premier league has gone in for duran

yeah um

the detail in that i read the story is that fenabace is going to cover his entire salary, which is a big

if he's on the kind of money that you usually earn it down there in Saudi.

That's a big move for Fenabasha, who don't have it.

But Fenabasha are owned by

one of the, if not the richest family in Turkey.

So I guess there's some money to be found there.

But I do think that's the kind of deal that maybe a few teams in the Premier League, you get a guy on loan and you have to pay a lot in wages and then he'll just leave at the end of it.

Maybe that's not a deal everyone's too hyped about.

Yeah, quite interesting, though, Plague, you know, going to Saudi and and coming you know not the first guy henderson did it as well right it's almost as if playing in saudi arabia is not a great thing to do for in terms of your sporting well i mean good for the wallet but the rest of it is kind of a bit of a nonsense i i hear from cristiano ronaldo that actually the level is really high and cristiano ronaldo has been clear that anyone who hasn't played in saudi arabia are not entitled to have an opinion on how good the level is though it does by his logic i do wonder how he can have an opinion on the level of any other league that he hasn't played in but that's a whole different the logic of cristano is hard to gauge but i we have to take Cristiano at his word.

The level is super high.

Can you confirm that you haven't played in the Saudi pro league last?

I can confirm I have not played in the Saudi

league just yet.

There's still hope, Max.

There's still hope.

I'm not sure I'd pass a medical, what with my leg and all, and a few other things.

Jonathan, you tweeted yesterday about that.

You just mentioned the Amazon documentary, Manchester United pulling out of that.

Seems like a very good idea for Manchester United to pull out of an Access All Areas documentary.

Yeah, I think for everyone except anyone who likes Manchester United, it would have been an all-time documentary.

Possibly forecasting their relegation this season, it would have been chaotic.

And I think that is the reason that from reading the reports, I think it's from David Ornstein, that

Ruben Amarim appears to have vetoed the whole idea.

And I think everybody else at the club was kind of pushing it along and was keen.

But the manager has found sense and said, I don't think it's a great idea to film a documentary when about 15% of my squad is pretty much on strike looking for other clubs and could still be around and have all access behind the scenes footage of that and our sort of our current situation.

So yeah, I mean, it would have brought in from the reports £10 million to United, which apparently is significantly more than any other documentary Amazon have paid.

They've obviously done all or nothings with Spurs, I think Arsenal, Manchester City as well, which surprised me a little bit in terms of the money they would pay.

I think, I don't know if that a good deal, 10 million?

Because it seems if United were so interested in entertaining the idea for just 10 million, is that a statement on how bad the finances are there?

Or is that kind of like too good to turn down that money?

10 million, I think, is a lot of money for United right now.

Things have changed up there.

You have to sack a lot of tea ladies to make that kind of savings, to put this in terms that Jim Radcliffe might, you know, appreciate.

But I guess

the key problem with those documentaries is just summed up in the fact that they've gone, nah, because the whole thing is they're never as warts and all as they need to be to be entertaining, those things.

I've sat down and watched a few of them with different clubs, and they're always just, even though they include some stuff that's funny, they're always a little bit too glossy, I find, and not quite revealing enough for them to like, because they, because you want it to be a train wreck, like, that's the thing that's interesting it's not you you can only have so many shots of people like high-fiving on their way into training and like having having massages and like doing physio and just using each other's nicknames and stuff like that's not interesting like we've seen that now we we want the train wrecks but of course why would clubs sign off on that well we've had we've had two train wrecks with sunderland premier passions when peter reed was in charge was a train wreck and massively entertaining and sunderland to when i die when they got relegated from the championship,

because that was originally set up as a vanity project to chart their inexorable progress back into the Premier League.

And

the footage of Charlie Methven and his mate Stewart when the deadline they panic buy of Will Grid for four and a half million quid and Charlie Metphin trying to

suggest, you know, an Ibiza anthem as their walkout music instead of Prokofiev's dance in the night.

So, failure is brilliant.

The ones where clubs are doing well are rubbish, but failure is excellent.

That is the one that's really, like, really worked and people really loved.

And I feel like all the much more high-budget, high-profile ones after have completely failed to capture any of that because it becomes a huge advertising exercise and it's really boring.

But I think that's the whole point, isn't it?

Like, you can't, no matter how glossy you try and make a team that's finished 15th, inevitably there's going to be a significant amount of games games that they lose.

No matter how glossy you try and portray that, it wouldn't have, I can't see a way in which it wouldn't have been hugely awkward for the club.

Jonathan, what do you make of, you know, that Kunya is in and wayma we imagine will sign eventually?

How do you feel about their business so far and when they're at?

Because it's interesting when they are linked to someone like Dominic Calvert-Lewin, which might not be a bad person to sign, but you sort of think, that is sort of the, you know,

how far they've fallen in inverted comments is perhaps a stretch, but it is really interesting to see that kind of thing.

Yeah, there was the graphic, wasn't there, of the four potential options that they could bring in up front: Jamie Vardy on a free transfer, Callum Wilson on a free transfer, Dominic Calvert-Lewin on a free transfer, and one other, I can't recall now who the other one was, but yeah, not exactly that inspiring.

I think the transfer business has been terrible when you compare it to the other clubs.

I mean, maybe Arsenal are the only ones who are

still have work to do, but it seems they're progressing with, you know, Madoweke.

It looks like they're in for Eze as well, and Zuba Mendi's already done.

And it looks like Norgard as well from Brentford.

So they're kind of progressing things, and it looks like they have things on track.

City and Liverpool have basically rebuilt

half their squads or certain part departments of their squads with lots of verts and the amount of business city have done.

So when you look at United, who need the biggest rebuild out of all of them, to still be haggling about Burma when they've only signed one player and haven't sold anybody,

you know, I think the Garnacho thing really sums it all up, isn't it?

Being told that in May, you've got no place here, pack your bags, you're off, and then sort of he has to come back for preseason training and be sort of shunted off to train with the rest of the bomb squad of Malasea and Rashford and everyone else, Anthony, just shows that they can't really, they're having trouble selling players, they're having trouble signing players, and I don't see any signs of improvement at this stage.

But there's a month to go, but I think

I'd be amazed if Aruban Marin would be happy with just one signing so far now.

John, the documentary thing, Wrexham are touring Australia.

And so there's all these big signs going, you know, meet the Wrexham squad or, you know, come down and get a signed shot.

And it's just so fascinating because all I can think is, you know, you know, Wrexham are just sort of, I know that, I know they're quite famous now and I know they're in the championship.

But just for someone who followed lower league football in the 90s, going, why would anybody care that Wrexham are tipping up to play at, I don't know, the MCG or wherever they're playing?

But good luck to them.

Jay says now Everton have also made moves to sell their women's team to themselves.

Will the Premier League finally make a stand that they didn't take against Chelsea and Villa?

Because, you know, it's Everton.

Yeah, Everton have moved to make the women's team a separate entity, which will be owned by the Friedkin Group, which is Everton's parent company, which does, in theory, make it easy to invest in the women's team.

They've already committed to spending a million on Goodison Park to prepare it for the WS all season.

Does also help navigating PSR.

Villa have done very similar, have agreed a deal to sell their women's team to V Sports, their parent company.

Feels very like a loophole, this.

Although we have heard that women's teams are independently run, you know, that is a model that can work for the women's team.

Yeah, it's a loophole.

I suspect it is one that will be closed anytime soon.

And I be honest, I don't see a great deal wrong with this

because I think various women's teams will benefit.

from being run as independent entities.

We've seen how little regard Jim Ratcliffe has openly said he doesn't care about the women's team.

He never goes to watch them or very rarely goes to watch them.

And they're treated very much like second-class citizens at all Trafford.

So I don't see this as a problem, particularly.

Jim says, which teams and or players impressed you most in the opening round of the Champions League?

Yes, it's back.

Qualification started last night.

TNS drew 0-0 with KF Skendizia of North Macedonia.

Paul Watson is on tomorrow's pod.

You can assume he is across across all of these sides.

Presume this to him is when the Champions League really matters.

MPs have voted to back the football governance bill, establish an independent regulator to oversee the men's game in England's top five divisions.

They voted 415 to 98 to pass the bill at his third reading in the House of Commons.

The head of the vote, Lisa Nandi, told the Commons, we are doing this for you because for too long you've been treated as an afterthought at best or a nuisance at worst in a game that's only great because of you.

This is for Macclesfield, for Wigan, for Berry, for Bolton, for Derby, for Reading, for Sheffield Wednesday, for Mork, and for many, many more who've had to endure the misery of being put last when they should have been put first.

MPs did vote against a proposal from the Lib Dems to make at least 10 Premier League games available on free-to-air television each season.

I saw in the group,

Jonathan, that you put out Rupert Lowe, who is former Southampton chairman, now reform

MP,

saying that all these people are useless gnomes gnomes and know nothing about the game, something like that.

Sort of sense.

If he's against it, it might be a good thing.

But

it's not a political podcast.

But anyway, it's interesting to see what happens with the regulator.

I guess until it's in process and happening, we won't really know how much power it has.

Yeah, I saw this proposal of putting

games free to air a couple of times there, and I thought that's actually a really good idea.

I've been thinking a lot about this.

So I have an acquaintance who's far younger than me who is a mad football fan, like talks about football every time we meet up, but

he doesn't watch games.

And maybe this is me referencing my one young friend.

Maybe not all young people are like this, but he plays FIFA or AAFC, as it's called now.

He watches highlights.

He reads all the transfer gossip.

He can talk about football for hours, but doesn't watch full games and doesn't go to games because he lives in London.

And I wonder if there is a risk of like, people, as long as the stadiums are full and some sky subscriptions are being sold, people don't care but i do worry that we're raising an entire generation of football fans to think well we don't watch games because a lot of families can't afford sky and five fewer families still can afford to go to games regularly so so so the way people consume football the way they're raised to consume football ends up being through games through highlights on youtube through through discourse and i've thought a lot about what that actually does to the fandom and the culture around the game in the long term and i tend to think not a lot of good things this idea of going to your local team and that being at the heart of the local community and how we all see the game.

I wonder if that'll just disappear.

And I think just little, little steps to making watching actual football games a little bit more accessible for regular people would not be a bad thing.

And it's not a huge sacrifice for the rights holders to make 10 games a year.

Yeah, no, I don't disagree.

I mean, I think it's interesting in comparison with cricket that, you know, if you have Sky, for example, and whatever, or you work in it, you just, you're sort of in a bubble where you presume everybody has it.

But that lib dem proposal seemed very half-arsed and just a typical example of an MP using sport to try and gain cheap popularity points.

You know, who's going to pay for these games?

Who's going to recompense the clubs?

Who's going to recompense Sky and TNT?

You know, each game costs about five million.

So who's going to pay that money if they're on Channel 5 or ITV for free?

Who's paying for them?

What games will they pick?

Blah, blah, blah.

These are all questions that the Lib Dems don't seem to have factored in.

While that's all going on, you've got the urgency of the situation is kind of summed up, isn't it?

With what's going on at Morecambe.

You only need to look at a club like Morecambe and if you look at the fall of Morecambe now into non-league, you only need to look at a club like that.

And also the issues that a team like Gates had had with the council to see really,

is the government really that bothered about helping these clubs or is it more of a, as Barry's put there, kind of like a, you know, a point-scoring exercise i i think there's a separation between the lib dens one of these free-to-air games and i think there is a genuine not necessarily for all mps but i think there is a genuine feeling that a regulator

is a really good idea i think i i mean that is not universal but if i look at the people who think it's a good idea and the people who are against it the people who are against it tend to be a vested interest people win the premier league I think the idea that you can

you can have some control about over who owns who gets whole and owns a football club.

You presume the regulator can only help.

And if it can't help, then yeah, it's a waste of time.

But that is the idea.

Well, like Rupert Lowe, who we spoke about, he thinks only people who work in football should work in football.

Rupert Lowe appointed Sir Clive Woodward as a performance director at Southampton, and they got relegated.

That is the same Rupert Lowe, who's now, well, maybe he's convinced himself that by appointing a rugby coach as Southampton's performance director and getting them relegated.

I'm proving his point for him, I suppose.

Alex says, Hi, Max and Barrett.

Right, for a bit of life advice after hearing your chat about Jonathan Wilson's wedding.

One of my best mates, who's been a longtime listener, and I should mention a Diehard City fan, was supposed to get married this summer.

He asked me to be groomsman last year, but over the winter, I found out he's actually been married for the past two years.

They had a private, not to someone else, that was my first thought.

They had a private ceremony with full wedding attire and photographer and only recently let us in on the secret.

There won't be a wedding now, but we're still going ahead with a stag party.

I've chosen to be supportive.

It's not about me after all.

But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit sad there won't be a proper wedding.

I too, like Barry, would have liked to have bought everyone's curry for the night and partied until I witnessed one of the great wonders of the world.

So my question is for Barry.

How would you have felt if you'd found out Wilson had secretly been married for two years?

And do you have any belated wedding wishes for my mate, Brad?

Thanks a million.

I'd have been very surprised if I'd found out Wilson had been been married for two years.

I'm very surprised Wilson's been married for two weeks, if I'm honest.

And the current Mrs.

Wilson is a lovely lady who appears to be in full possession of all her faculties.

So

I wouldn't worry too much about...

There's hope for everyone.

Yeah, certainly give me renewed hope.

I wouldn't worry too much about not getting to be a groomsman because

my one experience of being a best man and the groomsmen who were involved, it's just hard work.

You're just fetching and carrying, trying to sort out snags with regard to people's accommodation, that sort of thing.

And you, well, I suppose, groomsmen, you don't have to worry about a speech, but you do have to worry about being able to put buttonhole flowers on lapels, which is trickier than it looks.

And, well, Brad seems to know what he's doing, so he doesn't need.

My good wishes.

Stagdew two years after the wedding seems a bit.

It's still a weekend away.

Yeah, I mean, I never want to go on another Stag Dew again.

Wilson's was one of the best I've ever been at, and I want to leave it there.

I'd like a weekend in somewhere very quiet on my own.

Anyway, that'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Thank you, Max.

Thank you, Lars.

Thank you, Max.

Thank you, Barry.

Fuma Weekly is produced by Joel Grove, and our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.