Is the Club World Cup actually … quite good? – Football Weekly podcast

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Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Is the Club World Cup eyes looking one-way emoji?

Quite fun.

Botifogo beat PSG, Flamengo beat Chelsea, the Bellinghams enter the chat, Messi scores a free kick, Salomon Rondon's there.

Probably worth mentioning the extreme heat, ludicrous individual player walk-ons, Trump quizzing Myth, Juventus players, amongst others.

And looking ahead to the World Cup, who's warming the balls at the draw to keep US and Iran apart?

If, of course, the world is still here.

England under 21s beat Spain, plenty of transfer talk, and Sid Lowe has single-handedly got Oviedo promoted to La Liga.

So we'll get him on for part three.

As always, we'll answer your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning.

Hello.

Hi, Max.

Hello, Will Unwin.

Hello, Max.

And welcome, Lars Sividson.

Hello, Max.

Let's start then with the Club World Cup.

We've talked a lot about the issues off the pitch.

I've touched a little bit on the actual football.

Lars,

are you enjoying the football part of it?

I mean,

probably

more than I thought I would.

But my expectations were so low.

I mean, they were subterranean.

Like, they couldn't have been.

It's a bar that it would almost be impossible to get under that bar i've really felt and this is hardly an original take it's the it's the only everyone who's had to write a take on this the last couple of days have written this but i feel like the real winners are the south american fans uh and and to an extent the south american teams as well but it is those games involving the the brazilian and the argentinian teams in particular are the ones that have felt like the kind of spectacle that you want this kind of tournament to be and it is in huge part because the incredible uh noise and atmosphere generated by by their fans that's been a huge thing And it is good that we've seen some results that have not been exactly what we were expecting.

Having said that, as I cast a casual glance on the groups, I mean, pretty much all the European teams are on track to qualify.

Atletico Madrid are in a bit of bother.

Salzburg could be in trouble, actually, even though they are currently second in their group, but they've got Real Madrid in the last one.

And if Al-Hilal beats Pachuca, Salzburg could probably be up.

But it hasn't been this sort of mass failure of the European teams, but there have been more upsets than we probably were expecting, and that has made it more interesting.

Yeah, I wonder, will and I hate the phrase when I'm on a Sunday league pitch when the oppos shout, they don't effing want it, but like, do you think there is an element of non-Premier League, non-European teams just being more up for this?

Hopefully, that isn't like a patronizing question, but I imagine if you're a South American team, you see a lot of, you know, you probably in South America, you see more Premier League than we see of South American football.

Yeah, I think, as Lars pointed out, the atmospheres are better with the South Merging scene because there's actual support.

I mean, you've seen some of like Chelsea, LA, FC.

There's just no atmosphere.

There's so many empty stadiums or like half-empty stadiums.

You can actually see it mean something to the fans.

And if it means something to the fans, you've probably got to give a shit.

Whereas, say, City and Chelsea have got, you know, a handful of people there.

And City have made quite a few signings.

They're treating it as pre-season almost.

And I think Chelsea are doing the same, moving players around and things like that and go through the group stages, go through the motions.

I mean, city haven't had to try, really.

Whereas, obviously, for you know, your flamingos, etc.,

they're in better condition, they're not tired, they're not the players.

Let's be honest, a lot of the European players probably don't want to be there.

You know, you know, speak to people, it's just like I've not found a single one that suggested their play, you know, it was an agent or a coach or player themselves that actually wants to really be there and play football because of the heat, because of the end of the season, and that's it.

And so, I've watched uh PSG PSG at Let's Co-Madrid, where Let's go Madrid just looked jet-like.

They were walking around.

I mean, City of One Games, walking around, Bayner one games, walking around in front of very tedious atmospheres.

And so, yeah, of course, it doesn't mean that much to them, especially in the group stages where they're all waltzing through it, really.

You know, City had no problems against Casablanca, but you know, I'm sure we're all up at 2am this morning with eight cans and a packet of quavers watching City take on Alain.

And it was easy, you know, Alain had one shot on targets, he had 20 odd shots.

And the only interesting thing about that is that City

didn't get the seventh because if they got a seventh, then they only needed a draw against Juventus.

That's when

they scored the sixth and sprinted back to get to kick off to show how seriously they're taking this tournament.

And so, yeah,

this

tournament is not made for the European teams.

The conditions don't suit them.

I think they'll probably suit the South American teams a bit more.

And yeah, the fans are taking it a lot more seriously because A, they can get there easily and are cheaper.

And it's a big occasion to see the european teams where it's just the european fans don't have that level of interest and they say there's it's quite nice you know you're midway through the brazilian season i think you know 11 games in or whatever into the brazilian season so they're all peaking whereas the european players are wilting and desperately waiting for a you know a couple of weeks in marba or dubai yeah and you do you do barry when you see players you know when you see substitutes running on the pitch to celebrate like the botafogo players or the flamengo ones ones, you do sort of get carried along with that, don't you?

Yeah, they're having a good time.

Their fans are having a good time.

I mean, some of the games, as Will said, have been played at a bit of a walking pace, but players have to slow the game down because on many

occasions, it's just too hot to

go any faster.

But

if this was the World Cup, I'd be watching every game.

We'd be talking about every game.

I'm dipping in and out of it.

Last week, you know, I was watching cricket, I was watching Royal Ascot, I was watching

over the weekend, hurling.

So, I'm dipping in and out of this.

I'm quite enjoying it as a tournament.

I think it has merit, but there are obvious issues.

There's the attendances, and to be fair, I think the attendances have been okay.

I think the average attendance is about 35,000, which for two clubs playing far away from home is all right.

That's good.

But the problem is that these games are being played in giant stadiums that are built for American football games.

And, you know, I remember being in Australia years ago in Melbourne.

I went to a big bash game at the MCG.

There was 25,000 people there.

That's a decent crowd for a big bash game.

But because it was at the G, where the attendance is over 100,000 people, it looked like there was nobody there.

So I think some of the

hand-wringing over attendances has been

misguided.

And then, yeah, there's the problem with the weather and the politics and all that, but I think it's been okay.

And I think it will definitely get better once we get the knockouts.

Yeah, I think so.

Chelsea's defeat to Flamengo last did include Nicholas Jackson's red card.

He said, I want to say sorry to the club, the staff, my teammates, and all the fans watching.

I let you down.

Another red card.

Honestly, I'm so angry at myself.

I work hard every day to help the team not to put us in this kind of situation.

I still don't fully understand how it happened.

And actually, that is sort of a worry if he doesn't understand how it happened, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, what did he call it?

A footballing action that went wrong or a moment or something.

Yeah, a football moment that went the wrong way.

Yes.

I mean, just in the Premier League, he's got 17 yellow cards in two seasons, which for forward is pretty remarkable.

Like, it does seem to happen.

It looked like

I think we probably shouldn't be overanalyzing these incidents.

It'll be a long party for, but it looked like he was almost trying to do this thing that players do sometimes of kind of stomping your foot on the side of the ball to sort of claim it, you know, to try to if you put your foot down here, I control the ball.

But the other player got his leg in so quickly that he ended up stomping him, I guess.

It was always just happening at a very high speed.

So, okay.

It's not a good time for Nicholas Jackson to be doing this.

I mean, as much as this tournament, I don't think it's life or death for Chelsea, to put it mildly.

It's probably life or death for their accountants, possibly.

I don't know.

They're trying to find out

the Todd Bowley finances.

But the point is,

Chelsea, like a lot of big European teams, I think are in a period where the transfer window is opening.

They're kind of using this tournament to sort of assess where are we?

What do we have?

What do we need?

And Nicholas Jackson's place is probably not rock solid, given his iffy iffy goal scoring record the last two seasons.

Chelsea have brought in Liam DeLap.

There's been talk that they're interested in buying in another centre-forward.

This is a really bad time for him to be doing this kind of stuff because you kind of make it easier for people upstairs to make up your minds about him, even if that's a little bit harsh.

But I I really think that's unfortunate.

Sticking with Chelsea away from the Cobwell Cup, Mikhailo Mudrick could face a lengthy ban after being charged by the FA with doping offences.

Under FA regulations, he could be banned for as long as four years after providing a positive A sample last year it's it's believed the performance enhancing substance meldonium was found in his system he's not featured for chelsea since november last year uh mudrick said on instagram i can confirm i've been notified the sample i provided the fa contained a banned substance this has come as a complete shock as i've never knowingly used any banned substances or broken any rules i'm working closely with my team to investigate how this could have happened um i mean he did cost 90 million a four-year ban would be a sort of i mean disaster for him personally of course, but a problem for Chelsea as well.

I mean, unless they sort of sell, I don't know, part of Ken Bates back to themselves or some, I don't know.

How about Man City?

Will beat Alain 6-0, as you said.

Before that, they beat Wydad 2-0.

Yes, for the listener, he is pumping the air, fist-pumping the air is Will.

I mean, lots of new signings playing.

And I guess a...

you know, I guess a bit like the bigger size, it's sort of looking like how you're going to set up, isn't it, really?

Preseason tournament, you completely changed the team from first game to second so the interesting things are those changes and people like ike noori and city having a proper left back for the first time in quite a few years is interesting and he was up and down the left you know all night at 2 a.m you know bit like myself at that time

and it was it's interesting to see these changes and having gavardiol given a chance at centre back and cherkie has looked lively in the first couple of games Reinders was really good in the first game.

You know, he looks really composed on the ball, which is good.

Something maybe Siti missed, possibly because Roderie wasn't there for all of last season.

Roderie's back again.

More good preseason news.

Echoveri has looked neat and tidy, although

probably with Guardiola repeatedly saying that he needs to cut down the size of the squad, he might be a victim of that to get more game time out and about.

Kunduan was really good against LA, you know, two goals.

Really good chip.

Did he mean it?

Did he he not?

Into the top corner?

Because he's been lit with Galatassarai.

And, you know, I think

if we accept that the players that aren't there, i.e.

McAtee and Grealish, are going to be sold on, there's still a little bit of leeway of those that are in America because I think he might do a bit more business, obviously.

So

he showed that he wanted to stay.

He said that after the match, they wanted to see out his contracts.

And, you know, Galatasarai probably would be interested in a year's time, maybe, he wants to fulfill that dream.

But yeah, it's interesting to see new players as always come in and probably quite exciting, as I say, that an actual left-footed left-back, someone that's played there all his career, might

be willing to do the job for City over the coming season.

So, yeah, Ignore is a positive.

I saw a lot.

I did nine Wolves games last year, so I've seen a lot of Ignori.

And I mean, going forward, he's incredible defensively, still a little bit susceptible and does some makes some interesting decisions when in possession.

But I suspect Guardiola might get that out of him.

And it would be interesting to see, you know, sort of touched on it, but City need to beat Juvences in the final game to almost certainly avoid Braille Madrid in the next stage, the quarterfinals, is it?

So that'll be interesting because it's 3 p.m.

in Orlando and it'll be about 900 degrees.

So

both teams will be just walking around.

Maybe the Steve Staunton cap might be found

for some of the more pale players to wear.

And that Haaland with the big white cap on, pouring water on John Aldridge or whatever.

So, yeah, so it'll be interesting to see what happens because if City do get Real Madrid in that game,

that might allow everyone to go on holiday.

So, before we get on to Real Madrid, Mancy have been fined 1 million for consistently late kickoffs.

Nine of their games started or restarted late, the longest delay coming before the second half of the Manchester Derby last December, 2024,

which resumed two minutes and 24 seconds later than bills.

The Premier League said City had accepted and apologised for the breaches, which is what they normally do,

with the fines totaling 1.08 million.

They have 14 days to pay.

That'll be a sad letter on your door, Matt.

You have 14 days to pay £1.1 million.

But it seems weird, Barry, doesn't it?

Like, two minutes is what benefit do you get for waiting two minutes to make it worth doing in the first place?

Yeah, I don't know of any benefits they got.

I mean, if it was a group game in a tournament where there's simultaneous kickoffs,

it

seems

quite

punitive punishment for what doesn't seem like a particularly serious offence.

But, you know, I am a stickler for punctuality.

I hate being late for anything.

And it really annoys me when anyone else is late for stuff that means I have to hang around waiting for them.

So, yeah, I might start fining people for being late.

Yeah, if you know, if you're two minutes late to meet me in the pub, that's you get fine of 500 grand that goes straight into my pocket.

Do you wonder if the city players are secretly quite happy about this?

Because Pep does tend to go on a bit at half-time.

Because this is what we learned from that sort of documentary about, which I thought was quite disappointing overall, but like the sort of scenes of Pep just going wild in the dressing room at halftime was

quite, he's so intense.

Like it's remarkable to see that.

And I just, if you have to do that like every weekend throughout the season, you must get tired of it, surely on some level.

It was like,

he's on one again about the half spaces and all the things.

And I, and surely, like,

in my mind, if there is like this group WhatsApp chat for the Chelsea, for the city players that no club officials are in, they're like, heck yes, it's going to have to be a little bit, it's going to gonna have to rein it in next season innit i do wonder if maybe with all these documentaries that are going on inside the change rooms it's so licensed actually pep can you do that team talk again

you just didn't get the right angle just you know just a bit smilier bit smilier pep yeah we can workshop some ideas don't worry about it bezos i'll pick up the bill you go again harland face the right away

phil says uh phil says not a question but an appreciation of raul ascensio immediately tapping out as soon as he was faced with the goat Salomon Rondon.

Donathan Wilson obviously got in his ear.

Yes, Barry, there.

We had the sight of Ascentio getting sent off after about seven minutes

for fouling Salomon Rondon.

And of course, all of our eyes opened and went, oh, there's Salomon Rondon.

Certainly minded.

And he didn't look like he was running that fast.

Imagine Asencio could have just run around the other side and got back.

Well, I don't remember Salomon Rondon ever looking like he was running particularly fast.

And I haven't seen him play for about seven years.

I didn't realize he was still playing, but there he was with Pachuca getting hauled down a raul of sensio.

Um,

so he was obviously too quick for him.

He's he's clearly a very deceptive player in terms of speed, but uh, good to see Salomon still at it, and uh, yeah, I just imagine Everton fans online protesting the red card, saying this was not a clear and obvious goal-scoring opportunity

for Big I do love Big Sally, but yeah,

arguably not.

That is a fun thing about this tournament when you get like, huh, is he there?

Those are moments.

I really value those.

That's fun.

I have to admit,

I had kind of missed the Sergio Ramos thing.

I know not knowing where Sergio Ramos is is very much Barry's shtick here, but I had that moment with him when he turned out and was like, huh, I had completely missed that.

I think maybe just the Mexican league is a complete dead zone for me.

I don't know.

I'm looking at Barry's face going, do you know where he is?

No.

He scored the other day.

Who's he with?

He's playing for Monterey, isn't he?

David Squires message saying, I've just seen Sergio Ramos score for Monterey.

I felt a sudden surge of empathy for Barry Glenn Denning.

Sorry to interrupt you, Lars.

I could just see Barry's face, the panic in his eyes going, what?

Who?

Where?

This can't happen again.

I think it's way less egregious than the PSG.

It was PSG, wasn't it?

The PSG Ramos failed here.

But I think, listen, as someone, the people who made Football Weekly, Weekly, talking about the narrative arc of Barry Glendenning, really, you're just playing to the crowd now.

You know what you're doing.

You know exactly what you're doing.

Lars, should we talk about the Bellinghams, which could be like a US sitcom from the 80s or a terrible reality show now, but Jude and Joe both scoring.

FIFA tweeted they made history by becoming the first brothers to score at the Club World Cup.

So I thought it was a bit, I was like, come on, let's slow down, FIFA, you know,

but still, it's a nice moment for them.

I think, come on, let's slow down, FIFA, is something we've all felt about the marketing, about this tournament.

There's really no,

let's settle down.

Settle down now.

But do we know?

Like, I should, I'm the biggest nerd in the room, probably.

I should be aware of, like, if there's been any brothers in, like, the old Club World Cup who have have both scored.

I mean, maybe

well,

I reckon the Nevilles probably didn't both score in the old club World Cup.

That feels like something that definitely didn't happen.

I'm not doubting the stat, it just seemed like you know, it's just a silly stat.

It's you know, this is the inaugural version of this,

yeah.

It's like the Guardian tweeting out, you know, Max makes history by being the first person to broadcast a pod from a shed in Australia.

It's like, well, you know, it's not really a stat, is it?

I think a more interesting stat is the fact that Sheikh Mansoor and his brother own Man City and Aline.

Is that right?

The First Brothers technically made history.

So the First Brothers to go head to head in the Club World Cup as owners of teams.

Yeah, but both teams didn't score, so it doesn't count.

Like Joe Bellingham to Dortmund last, it's quite a romantic signing, isn't it?

Yeah, and I like it.

I like it because it's,

you know, this was Dortmund Stick fairly recently,

or has been Dortmund Stick for a long time, is that they're the sort sort of this elite finishing school for talent.

They're a club where

you know they are one of the big teams in a way, but they have and and they have, you know, you play in front of an incredible crowd and there are pressures that come with it.

But you are also, from Joe Bellingham's perspective, you are also playing for a club where I think the fans are used to seeing young players come in and they will not all jump up and down on your head if you have one or two bad games.

You know, they'll they they'll realize that they have this experience of seeing young players come in and and maybe be a little bit inconsistent and kind of find their way.

And eventually, you know,

it's possible that Bellingham could have gone to an even bigger name somewhere.

That's maybe the wrong way of phrasing it, but I think

if he'd have gone to one of the bigger teams in the Premier League, for instance, there would have been more like immediate pressure to like, you have to succeed and be brilliant right away.

Whereas Dortmund are a great place in terms of getting minutes, getting minutes

for a serious big-time club, but also in an environment where they understand young players and they have a lot of experience of bringing them through.

So I think that's a really canny place for him to go.

And it was nice to see him score a goal.

Also interesting to see Dortmund just deciding to keep all of their subs in the dressing room in the first half of that game against the Mamalodi Sundowns just because it was too hot.

Which is one of those things.

It seems absolutely baffling to me that when you're planning this this tournament that no one at FIFA realized that it gets really hot in America during the summer.

So you should maybe not have games in the middle of the day if you can avoid it.

They have realized it, Lars.

They just don't care.

Yeah, no, I think that's it.

Like, they just don't care at all.

And surely, but that seems so self-defeating.

Surely for this tournament to work and to capture the attention of the public, the football needs to be not terrible.

And if you're forcing people to play in the middle of the blazing hot sun, the football isn't going to be amazing.

So it just seems really odd.

And then the city game was played in an air-conditioned stadium.

last night, which I quite enjoy the difference in stadia.

Whereas the Rose Bowl at Pasadena, there's no covering or anything.

Watching that PSG Atletico Madrid, so I was just sort of worried about sunburn on the fans and the play.

You look at one stadium and it's really nice and air conditioned.

The other one is just a hazard for you know people in the sun.

And that's the nature of it.

I mean, it's so strange that there's no sort of joined-up thinking about any of it.

Just worth pointing out that Antonio Rodrigo says he was racially abused at the end of his side's win against Pachuca.

So we'll follow that and find out the findings of that in the next week.

Adam Crafton reporting in The Athletic that FIFA decided not to show videos or signage which explicitly mentioned challenging racism or discrimination at the venues.

FIFA point to statutes politically neutral when asked if the U.S.

political climate played a part in that decision.

Following pushback, they then did put those messages back in the stadia.

No, they only put them back for one day only.

So it was a bit of a sop, but now they're no longer there.

Meanwhile, the Aventus squad all stood behind Donald Trump, who went on to ask them about Iran and transgender footballers.

It's a completely ridiculous situation.

Timothy Weier said

after their game, it was a surprise.

They were told they had to go.

In case people haven't seen the video, it's extraordinary because when Trump, I mean, it's always fascinating watching Trump live because he just speaks like a...

particularly Den's child.

He just sort of rambles on.

It's completely incoherent and weird, and it remains very odd that anyone ever voted for him to have held any kind of higher office.

But here we are.

But when he starts going on about like

trying to almost bait the Juventus players into saying something about transgender stuff, there's one man who keeps his cool, and it's one of the Juventus directors who immediately goes in and says, Because Trump asked them if a woman could play for your team.

And there's a Juventus director who keeps his head cool and says, We have a really good women's team to try to diffuse the situation.

That director was Damian Camolli, which is incredibly strange.

The former Tottenham and Liverpool sporting director and analytics, the early analytics guru, Damian Camole, who has very unexpectedly been hired as like a general manager at

Juentus after a few years in the wilderness.

And it just made me think, like, this is a very serious subject, and I'm being slightly flippant.

But what is happening in the world when we have like Damian Camole in the White House avoiding a diplomatic incident by trying to guide a man-child president back onto a more rational subject?

And it just kind of makes me, what is going on?

I know that's something we're saying a lot about non-footballing things at the moment as well.

But

it's a deeply weird situation.

Paul says, is there a genuine fear?

And no one can answer this question, about the USA getting drawn with Iran at the 2026 World Cup?

How will it work with the current travel bans?

Will Trump just say Iran can only play games in Mexico or Canada?

Yeah, obviously.

The time recording is the day after the US dropped those bombs on the

nuclear sites in Iran.

So, you know, I mean, who knows is the question.

I mean, I think this is very simple.

If there's a complete travel ban for citizens of a country that's competing in the World Cup, then you can't hold the World Cup.

FIFA should just make this very clear.

If you've banned all people from a participant country to enter, then you can't host a tournament.

This is not complicated.

This should be the bare minimum of a host country.

Yeah, but FIFA won't do that.

No, of course they won't.

But, you know, just saying.

Just before we go, because I mentioned it in the intro, Baz, the individual walk-ons, which are ludicrous, and they go on forever.

You know,

Wilson wrote a good piece about it, didn't he?

And

it just feels so anathema to what football should be.

Yeah, well,

you want to see the two teams walk out side by side.

It's all part of the ceremony, gladiatorial, as Wilson described it.

And quite apart from the practicalities of it, it takes ages.

So the first player who's introduced has to stand around in very hot weather, waiting up to seven eight nine minutes for each of the 22 players to be individually introduced so it doesn't work on an aesthetic level it doesn't work on a practical level it needs to be binned and i i suspect even gianni infantino will say this is not this isn't working but i i was thinking like if joe hart was playing he's always the guy i associate with you know the ref gives the signal and then joe hart claps his hands above his head head and comes says come on lads and then looks behind him and there's no one there

um but yeah it really really doesn't work and it's one of many things in this tournament which to be fair is not really aimed at moany middle-aged men like us who like to yell at clouds but i i think even the kids that uh FIFA, the new wave of our generation of fans FIFA are going to try are trying to attract will not appreciate this at all.

Imagine the moment in the game between Ulsan HD of Korea versus the Mamaloni Sundowns, which was played in front of 3,000 people.

The guy is introducing the left back for Ulsan, who's a Swedish guy, who's like, oh, it's number 17,

Gustav Ludwigson.

You're saying just 3,000 really confused people in the stadium,

I guess.

Sure.

It's so dumb.

Who is this for?

Anyway, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin with England on the 21st.

Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the the California Lottery.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So England beat Spain, perhaps slightly surprisingly, in the quarterfinal of the 121s, 3-1.

They'd had a pretty shaky group stage.

Will, you're on the minute-by-minute of this victory.

Who impressed you?

F1 played for England at a strange turn of events having also watched the england germany game a few days beforehand where it was very pedestrian very blunt whereas it was a completely different team seems to turn up against spain really helped by the fact they played a number nine which did not previously in the tournament so they had jay stansfield down the middle who was really good badgering but i think those players behind him elliott mcati and Mari Hutchison were excellent.

Hutchison down the left was causing problems from very early on.

Deanley centre-backs Kwanzaa came out at the back, wandering up to the edge of the box and firing a shot away for England to get the second with Harvey Elliott knocking in the rebound.

But yeah, it was a really good discipline performance, kept the ball well against Spain when they needed to, and when it was 2-1 for a lot of the second half after Spain scored a penalty.

It was the sort of hardcore English defending of the good old days, chucking yourself front of shots, etc.

Really hard work.

Again, not quite warm there, long seasons for young players.

So Lee Carsley tried really hard not to overload them.

I mean, the interesting point was in the second minute, Spain were awarded a penalty for a hand ball where it hit Cresswell on the arm and his arm was just out to the side, and the referee awarded it and it wasn't next to his body.

And then he was told to review it.

And I was shocked when he overturned the decision,

which really, really helped England out.

The pundits and Joe Hart, maybe a bit too patriotic, was saying how that was a common sense decision.

But I was very surprised it was overturned because

his arm wasn't right next to his body.

But yeah, England just looked really good.

I say, I think having a number nine changed things because previously Jonathan Rose played there as a bit of a false nine.

I've had other people in that position, it just not worked.

And so they're missing Liam DeLap, who's with Chelsea.

But yeah, a really good performance to give them confidence after, say, very slow performances against Slovenia and against Germany in the last couple of games.

And then that was against Germany's second string.

They completely changed 11 because they were already through.

I mean,

they did get a goal in the end, but they looked very,

you know, very, very poor at times in that match, despite having a lot of possession, but never really looked like scoring.

So yeah, positive for England and Spain weren't really on it.

Again, they're missing some players.

but they were really outdone physically and even technically by England.

So yeah, really, really positive move.

England played the Netherlands Netherlands in the semifinals, they beat Portugal.

The other quarterfinals were great.

France scored twice in two minutes late on, I think, 84th and 85th minute to beat Denmark.

Um, new Spurs permanent signing, Matthias Tell, with a really good winner, actually.

And then, Germany beat Italy 3-2.

Italy took the lead in the second half.

Germany equalised.

Willie Nonto was sent off for Italy.

Germany took the lead in the 87th minute.

Italy had another player sent off, so they're down to nine men, but they still equalized in the 96th minute.

And then Germany scored the winner an extra time in the 117th minute.

Although, good luck trying to find highlights.

It's been a long time.

Just going on YouTube, and it's those sort of AI, you know, you're trying to get a three-minute highlight or something, and you just get someone in AI and just some pictures of another football match.

And you're like, this is please, why are you who is making these?

And what's happening?

Can they stop being on my laptop, please?

Hey, in England, adjacent news, Barry, Gareth Southgate has apparently applied to be the head coach of Poland.

They're in a World Cup qualifying group with Finland, Netherlands, Lithuania, and Malta.

They currently sit third on six points level with the Netherlands.

Finland have seven points.

They've all played different numbers of games.

What do you think?

I was a bit surprised when I heard about this.

Obviously, Poland's previous manager

quit because he

did he strip Robert Ludowski of the captaincy or something?

And Ludowski spat the dummy, said he wouldn't play for this guy anymore.

So your man went, well, I better resign then.

So that's how the vacancy arose.

I would say, you know, when it comes to World Cups and Euros,

Poland are invariably there, but you always expect very little of them.

That won't change if Garrisa is in charge.

I looked it up.

Hamalek Rexny is handbreak in Polish.

So,

you know, they've been big cries for release, the Hamalek Rexny.

I mean, I really, for the sake of the Southgate banter, to continue, I really hope England wins the next tournament because I think people are going to look quite stupid and maybe realize that actually getting to finals all the time is really hard.

No, no, I totally agree with you.

I mean, you know,

I think you're right.

I think you did an excellent job as England manager.

But we don't need to have that round now.

We can have it again sometime.

Premier League fixtures are out.

Thank goodness football is back.

The season starts with Liverpool-Bournemouth on Friday, the 15th of August.

Manchester United Arsenal on the opening opening weekend too.

Actually, Arsenal's probably the big story.

They've got quite a tricky opening.

Man United Away, Leeds at home, Liverpool away, Forest home, Man City home, Newcastle away.

Obviously, it appears like every team is playing each other home and away, but

that's a tricky start, Will, for Arsenal, isn't it?

Yeah, well, I mean, United away.

Is that a tricky start?

Is it?

Well, no, but having Liverpool City, okay, having Liverpool City and Newcastle away in the first six is hard.

I agree agree with you.

They should, you know.

Oh, of course it is.

And especially because the team that

they're really trying to manoeuvre in the market, you know, linked with Martinelli going and trying to bring people in because they have the finest margin of wanting to go from second to first, which is really, really hard.

So the more difficult your starting point when you're making those key changes, you know, it will have an impact.

I mean, the other team who've got a really hard start is Burnley, who have come up and, you know, going to have to redefine parking the bus in the opening six games, I think, as the Football Daily Daily this one day this week when the fish are released because they've got a lot of big games plus Sunderland at home.

So yeah, I mean, the harder you start, the harder it is to get momentum if you don't win those, you know, you draw in even a few of those difficult home and away games.

Because that's what football's all about.

It's about momentum.

And, you know, when City lost it this season, you know, they were looking to change the title and you lose games six in a row and whatnot, you

lose it.

So if you can't get it going at the start of the season, then you're napped.

Yeah, Bernie had Tottenham away.

I can see Spurs buggering that up.

Tottenham away, Sunderland at home, Man United away, but then they play Liverpool at home, Forest at home, and Man City away.

So, yeah, that is tricky, isn't it?

Um, West Ham at home for Sunderland, Barry.

You happy with that as an opening fixture?

Yeah, fine.

I mean, West Ham, Burnley, Brentford are Sunderland's first three fixtures.

Uh, a Sunderland supporting friend of mine

views that as nine points in the bag, and

I wish I had a far less cynical view.

I applaud his optimism, I don't share it.

What a column that's going to be.

I'm more inclined to view it as no points in the bag and register,

panic sacking of the manager.

But anyway, we'll see how it goes.

Yeah, absolutely.

Just find out, I don't know if there are any transfer rumors that are peaking any of your interests, Lars, anything?

No?

Oh, that's good.

No, nothing.

I'm just listening.

All of my spare enthusiasm is currently going into the Club Cup.

I like the fact that you have it, that you open a cupboard for spare enthusiasm.

You're quite an enthusiastic man.

I mean, I've but there's really very little left after expending the points that were needed to care about the Club World Cup.

We are absolutely down to the bare bones.

When Lars Simmons is running drive enthusiasm, there's no point looking at Barry and Will if I'm being brutally honest.

Well, I have to say, I I've been I I I have normally no interest in transfer speculation, but I am taking an interest in speculation related to Sunderland.

And I have to say, very little of it is piquing my interest.

And my enthusiasm, reserves are dwindling by the day.

With the greatest of respect to Cameron Carter Vickers and Jeff Tanganga.

I think Tanganga would be a good zigning for them.

I would point out, worth having a look at the Cambridge United's announce, you know, video for the new shirt with the new crest with so many cambridge united legends and also me in it beginning it's very exciting real honor to be part of that went to see to be next to dion paul wandless andy duncan um harrison dunk all these names you know everyone will know who they are was the bloke from groove armada not available

are they doing the festivals

yeah they couldn't get here more saggers so they got me so yeah very excited What about Ryan Loft?

Is he still involved?

Well, we gave Ryan Loft a three-year deal.

We're pinning a lot of hopes on Lofty for next season.

He didn't make the video.

James Brophy is the only current player, I think, who made the video.

But yeah,

it's actually pretty good.

And it did give me some enthusiasm for the season.

And then we signed somebody.

Obviously, we signed someone who'd played for Swansea's under-21 team in goal.

So I messaged Ellis James going, have you heard of this guy?

And he went, nope.

I was like, okay, thanks.

He said, I probably know someone who does.

I went, you don't have to try too hard on this, Ellis.

Anyway, that'll do for part two.

Sid Lowe will join us for part three, and we will congratulate him for getting Oviedo promoted.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly, and Sid Lowe joins us.

Hey, Sid.

Hello, Max.

Oviedo, promoted.

You did it single-handedly.

See, before we start, there may be some new listeners who don't know what your connection to Oviedo is and how long it's lasted and sort of your, you know, how close you are to that club.

Well, my connection doesn't really matter very much, but I did my year abroad there as a student.

I'm reluctant to say this if only because it shows how old I am in 96, 97.

and did a year abroad in Oviedo.

Decided, obviously, that I would go and watch the local football team play.

They were in the First Division at the time.

And I've been an Oviedo fan ever since.

And Oviedo were relegated in 2001 out of the First Division that haven't been back.

But in that time, they've been all the way down to Tefera, which although it's called third, is actually the fourth tier of Spanish football.

And it's worse than the fourth tier of Spanish football because there are 17 divisions, 350 teams.

Even the Segunda B, Second Division B, which is the one above it, was four divisions and 80 teams regionalised.

So those two are always considered to be not professional football.

And those are the two before you get into second division.

So Oviedo have been since 2001 when they're relegated in Mallorca.

I was actually in the stadium that day.

We didn't think it was going to take this long.

24 years away, a lot of that, not even in the second division.

In fact, didn't get back up into the second division until 2015.

And that was a huge big deal.

And now, back in the first division, the really big thing for Oviedo is that twice they've been on the verge of going out of business.

So, this isn't just about

kind of being back in the first division, it's more that being what being back in the first division symbolizes and that kind of sense of

reaffirmation, if you like, of existence, I guess.

I mean, that's sounds very, very high-blown, but I think that's basically what this is.

Yeah, and so and so talk us through

this win, a two-legged promotion playoff against Mirandez, who I confess I don't know a huge amount about.

Mirandes, yeah, who were

in with a chance of being in the first in the first division for the first time in their entire history.

Had they gone up, I mean, obviously, you know, look, I'm entirely biased on this for obvious reasons, but had they gone up, it would have been absolutely brilliant.

And, you know, I'm glad it's not them because I'm glad it's Oviedo and Oviedo going up is brilliant.

I think even for people who aren't Oviedo fans, by the way, I don't think I should just come on here and tell you all that it's wonderful because I like Oviedo.

I think a lot of people are really, really happy that it's Oviedo.

Mirandes going up would have been amazing.

Of course, the story around which this all kind of hooks for everybody is Santi Cathola.

And so just to give you the basics of the playoff, two-legged playoff, home and away, Oviedo beat Almaria in the first playoff.

Santi Cathola scored the goal in the second leg that took Oviedo into the playoff final.

The playoff final isn't played at a neutral ground, it's played home and away.

Oviedo would defeated 1-0 at Mid-Andes, in Midandro.

Santi Cathola had a knock on his knee and was actually watching in a press cabin.

He may or may not have been standing next to an Englishman who was probably getting on his nerves quite a lot during that game, watching that game, getting very frustrated, and then was back for this one.

Oviedo go 1-0 down quite early, so 2-0 down over on aggregate.

Here's the weird one for you: In the playoffs, the team that finishes higher in the league, if it's a draw, goes up.

So Oviedo only needed to draw, but there is extra time.

So the other team gets extra time for the chance to win.

So Oviedo, Santi scores, it's 1-1.

They score to make it 2-1.

They're going up, but they've got to go for extra time to keep going up.

And then they score the third in extra time to go up 3-1.

It was just, oh, it was brilliant, honestly.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

Talk us through when they score the third in extra time.

So you know it's done, right?

Because it's like away goals, you know.

Miranda doesn't need two.

There's a kind of a thing that obviously it's euphoria but i think it's more than euphoria it's a it's a kind of thing of this there's almost a decompression that wow it's actually going to happen and and ovie because they've been through what they've been through because say twice almost went out of business a real sense i think every team has this but i think maybe in ovie's case it feels a bit more justified because in those years of being relegated by the way i should point this out in 2003 ovieda got relegated two divisions at once one on the pitch and one off the pitch because their financial crisis so they went down to the second division, but right, no, you're going down another division because they have players denouncing the fact that they hadn't been paid because the club essentially went into administration.

The owner they had after that was being looked for by Interpol because he,

on a couple of counts of fraud, he disappeared.

The suggestion was that he was somewhere in Central America trying to escape justice.

The way that the club survived in 2012, which was a way of not only finding the money to help the club survive in the short term, but also diluting his shares enough to be able to take control back, was to do in his absence a share issue and effectively dilute his shares and rescue the club.

So, anyway, what happens, I think, on Saturday is this sense of even when you free one up, something bad can always happen.

Something bad can always go wrong.

And so, at the end,

it's a kind of a relief, it's a let go, there's a sense of nostalgia.

There's a lot of people.

I know this is a little bit,

how do I put this?

This is maybe a little bit kind of morose or a little bit deliberately sort of, I don't know, kind of looking for the sort of this the hyper emotional and overplaying it but i spoke to so many people at the weekend who talked about the people who didn't make it because in 24 years a lot of people pass away a lot of people who who they thought would be with them at this point pass away and in oviedo's case i think that's particularly poignant because you've had you've had three players at playing age pass away in this period as well and so there's that sense of you know players didn't make it with them a sporting director who passed away in this period as well um of the board of directors when when when oviedo came through the the crisis in 2012, one of those passed away.

It's been, wow.

And then the release was just amazing.

You know what?

I was,

should I say this year, Goleman?

I was crying before Santa even took the penalty.

Sid, I know you

always

downplay your role in helping to pull Oviedo back from the brink in 2012, where I think they needed to raise 2 million European,

yeah.

You were doing a lot of mobilization of fans.

I think a lot of our listeners bought shares and

have their own, so they have an interest in Oviedo now.

I don't know, will they all be millionaires now?

But

can you just remind us what it was you did

to help?

With a sense of dread, I suppose I probably can.

Sorry, but I just find it easy.

I mean, I do, I do actually, in a way you've made it one part of this really nice which is that now's a very good chance to say thank you to all the people who did buy shares to all the people who did kind of respond in 2012.

so to try and explain what happened in 2012 is as i say that there's there's the situation at the club uh a kind of a board takes over the club the management of the club and a board of fans and board of people who who for me will always be just total heroes.

And

they were in a position where they had to try and manage this financial crisis, this institutional crisis.

As I say, the majority shareholder has disappeared.

He's been looked for by the police and they're running the club.

And there's only really one way out.

And that's, well, we're going to have, we'll try and do a share issue.

We'll bring people in because they desperately needed, basically, as you said, 2 million euros, just short of 2 million.

I think it's 1.9 million euros immediately to survive.

Just short of 4 million euros to kind of get to the end of the season and have a degree of medium-term stability.

And there's almost no way of doing this.

And they come up with this idea of, well, we'll do a share issue.

And the bit, the part that I played in this was essentially to kind of internationalize this, the share issue.

And essentially to say, quite desperately, please buy shares.

Now, I think Oviedo were really fortunate at that point.

And this is where the horrendous journalistic bias comes in.

I genuinely think in the Premier League at the time,

Of the best 10 players, maybe even of the best seven or eight players, three were youth team products of Real Ovieda.

Juan Mata, Santi Cathola, and Michu at the time.

Bear in mind, this is Michu's big explosive season where he's absolutely brilliant.

And I think that gave us this incredible

hook with which to say to people, listen, this is the club to Chelsea fans.

This is the club that gave you Juan Mata.

This is the club that gave Arsenal Santi Cathola.

This is the club that gave Michu to Swansea.

This is a club that had those players and because of those crises, lost those players.

Michu did play in the first team at Oviedo.

He was part of the team actually that won promotion from Ter Thera to Svundabe.

Mata and Cathola never made it to the first team because essentially they were forced to go before they got that chance.

And so you had this, I think, this brilliant hook to be able to say to people or this brilliant kind of emotional tug, if you like, say to people, listen, you can't allow this club that made this contribution to these Premier League teams to go out of business.

Please buy shares.

And I think a couple of things also happened that really helped.

I think it was tangible.

The shares were 10 euros, 85, I think, if I remember rightly, at the time.

As you've mentioned, it was 2 million Euros they had to reach a target.

They were talking 50, 60 million euros.

We're talking a target that's really, really reachable and you can genuinely make an impact by buying shares.

And people responded and it was incredible.

And people responded.

In the end, Oviedo had just shorter 37,000 shareholders around the world in 85 different countries, loads of English fans.

And I really, really loved.

I saw a couple of them at the weekend, actually, Ben and Malk, who are Peterborough fans, Ipswich fans, respectively, who are in Oviedo.

And so, but, you know, look, most people in truth bought shares and helped out and bought a share and said, There you go, there's my contribution.

Some of them, and you know what?

I'm going to become an Oviedo fan as well.

I'm going to follow this team through.

And so,

as I say, there's a massive gratitude that I feel to these people who kind of helped in that moment, who didn't know anything about Oviedo really, except that they had these three players, except that we were basically saying, Please, please help us out.

And it would have been really easy to say, why would I?

But people did, thousands and thousands of people did.

It was completely, just completely overwhelming, completely, completely brilliant.

And

that's kind of where Oviedo got to this point.

To your question of what the shares are worth, I remember at the time saying to people, listen, think of this as a charitable donation.

Your shares are not worth anything.

I guess if you could find someone who wanted to buy them now, you could try.

But I honestly don't know what the mechanics of doing it would be.

But it's fair to say that an Oviedo share is worth a lot more than €10.85 now if it can be sold.

But I honestly don't know if it can be sold.

I suspect you probably can't.

Probably can't, yeah.

Obvio, by the way, you're in their centenary year this year, so so going up is even bigger, this idea of them being in a centenary.

And I've been talking to people at the club a lot about

trying to find some way of, I mean, obviously you can't take 37,000 people from around the world to a stadium that only holds 30,000, but some way of

kind of, I don't know, expressing that gratitude and somehow bringing them to the club.

As I say, one of the loveliest things for me over these last 10 years or so has been how many of them are going to games as well and really taking this on as their club.

Oh, well, credit to you for your involvement in that.

Especially, you know, considering this pod only started in 2017.

You know, for all those listeners in 2012, to put that out is incredibly impressive.

And

do you have the clout Sid, is this going to be like every week, you know, your report will be, oh, you know, it's El Clásico, but you're at Celtavigo Real Oviedo.

Do you know what?

I was, I was, I was, I mean, a lot of people have said this to me.

And,

you know, what I'm going to do now, because my professional career,

Oviedo were a First Division team when I lived in Oviedo in 1966, 97.

I saw them go down in 2001 in Mallorca.

And that was my first season doing the Spanish Footwork Quality for The Guardian.

And that was a season that I was living part in Spain, part in England, going back and forth.

I've been living kind of permanently in Spain

since 2001 in Madrid, now just outside Madrid, going back and forth to Oviedo.

And I've never had this professional conflict.

Because in a way, it's like, you know, my professional is the first division.

Obviously, there have been Oviedo articles over the years and probably a bit more than there should be.

But Oviedo are kind of compartmentalized.

And now they're right there.

And I'm, you know, horrendous biased.

I wrote about Santa yesterday and about them coming up because I just kind of thought, I can't not do this.

But I sort of didn't want to.

I don't know what I'm going to do, Max.

Yeah, the weekend of the Clasico.

The Clasico does not exist.

Oviedo away at Getafe.

And that is the game of the weekend.

Can I ask you, see, we've done like lots in the Club World Cup in part one, but just, and we've done Real Madrid and whatever, but how seriously are people in Spain taking the tournament?

Yeah, I mean, look, I was trying to work this out yesterday.

And I know it's a silly thing to say, but bear with me.

This is front and center of the media coverage.

It's front and center of the footballing conversation.

But I think I was trying to work out if it really is.

And if it's because of the Club World Cup.

So let me explain what I mean by that.

I'm not 100% sure that we're we're really seeing very much more coverage of these Real Madrid games than we would if Real Madrid were playing in preseason with a new manager and a load of new signings.

Focal point for me is still about what are they building?

What is this building to?

What is happening?

What's Charlie Lonzer doing?

How are these players going to fit in?

I'm not sure it's yet about are they going to win this big competition.

And Florentino Perez actually spoke on TV, which he normally doesn't do.

It was slightly...

slightly strange and slightly confused conversation.

But anyway, he was talking about what a big deal this was and how this is what they've been fighting for and so on.

I mean, he he was talking about it as if it was the Super League, when, of course, it's not.

And so there was a sense of its importance there.

And as I say, there's a sense of its importance in terms of people covering.

But I think the covering of it is much more about how they play and who they've got and what they're building than are they going to win this amazing competition.

In fairness, once we get into knockout rounds, maybe that will happen.

And so it matters, but I think it matters because Real Madrid are there.

I wonder if in England, for example, it might have been different had Liverpool United or Arsenal been there.

Yeah, possible.

No offense to Chelsea and City, by the way, but what I mean is that kind of sense of the momentum of it all.

Yeah, and just quickly, there's a rumour of Rashford to Barcelona.

He said he'd like to play with Yamin Yamar, and who wouldn't?

I'd quite like that Porsche I saw in the forecourt the other day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's a player that they're interested in.

I wonder where it leaves him, the fact that Barcelona are now admitting very publicly, no problems with it, that they are going for Nico Williams.

They've agreed a deal with Nico Williams.

They now have to find a way to pay his buyout clause from an athletic club and to be able to, of course, to then register him with the financial fair play rules and had that nico thing not looked so close to happening now i'd have said to you rashford makes complete sense because he has all the things that you want in that he's a forward who can play wide or through the middle who can give you a bit of variety in the forward line and you don't have if you like some of those financial problems although i imagine that his wage is still pretty high so i imagine you still have that issue um but maybe not so much as with a player like nico where you're spending 60 million on the transfer fee and if you're paying it as a buyout clause by the way you're paying it all up front in one go there's no deal there there's no putting it off, there's no paying it in installments unless you can get a deal with his club.

So I think they will continue to be interested in Rashford, but I think the urgency of it has been taken away a little bit if they can get this deal for Nico.

Well, not the deal for Nico over the line, if they can get the paperwork of the registration for Nico over the line.

That'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Sid.

Thank you very much indeed.

Thanks, Lars.

Thank you, Max.

Thank you, Will.

Thanks, Max.

Cheers, Baz.

Probably Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens, and we'll be back next Monday.

This is The Guardian.