Premier League final-day drama and a Sunderland hangover: Football Weekly

This is The Guardian.

Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

The big Premier League review, and the race for fifth place went right down to the wire, but not a very high-tense wire, if we're honest.

Biggest moment of the day at Old Trafford, perhaps.

Morgan Rogers' goal disallowed before VAR could get involved, prompting Villa to send a complaint to the PGMOL.

They might have a point.

Arguably, Emi Martinez also made a mistake by careering into Rasmus Hoyland in the first half, making Uniemory's task for Champions League qualification a little trickier.

A point would have been enough as Newcastle lost at home to Everton, but they make it as to Man City and Chelsea, the latter consigning Nottingham Forest, if consigning is the right word to the Conference League.

There's the rest of the games, Trent cheered, Anfield Spurs cheered as they get battered at home, and an absolute get-it-launch classic to finish the season.

at Wolves.

Lots of AOB as we congratulate Aberdeen and Arsenal's women.

And given the panel in front of us, we might just mention Sunderland's return to the big time.

All that plus your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hello, Max.

Hey, Jonathan Wilson, hello.

Wanna.

Good, thank you.

And Robin Cowan, hello.

Hi, Max.

Yeah, I'll be fielding all the Sunderland questions, obviously.

Good, absolutely.

Straight to Robin.

Yeah, we are doing a playoff special tomorrow, but since we have two people who are sitting with each other at Wembley to watch their team win promotion to the Premier League, we should probably start with that.

Hugh says, How bad were Barry and Wilson's hangovers combined?

Charlie says, Has Barry settled on whether he cares if Sunderland are promoted?

Wilson, Barry, how was it, Wilson?

Go to you first?

Well, the strange thing was that I, yeah, I'm one of the most pessimistic men

in existence, in history, I would say.

And

I never really doubted we were going to win that game, even when it looked like Shaft United had gone 2-0 up.

My thought was, this combat's going to be amazing.

And that's not a normal thing to feel.

So, I don't know what gave me that sense, but I really wasn't surprised when it turned out the way it did.

Um,

yeah, clearly, Sheffield United absolutely battered Sunday in the first half hour.

Sunday couldn't live with him physically.

The injury to Luka 9 clearly shook Sundland.

They could easily have been two or three mil down by half-time.

Chef Night had a very good chance in the second half as well.

I think Sunderland improved a lot.

Sort of the last 10 minutes of the first half and then second half.

Register Bruce got his substitutes absolutely spot on, and yeah, two great goals to win it.

And it was just a great occasion.

I think the greatest

individual Sunday match, not in terms of how good the match was, but in terms of experience of the match of my lifetime.

I've talked to a lot of older fans, and they all say since 73, that's as good as it's got.

And when in the 95th minute, Wilson, when that went in, were you a blubbering wreck?

Not at that point, though.

It didn't take long.

Suddenly, I got nervous because it was one of those slightly odd things where,

like, there's, was it seven minutes of injury time?

Do you?

Are you going to say, as you often do about Sunderland goals, Wilson, that scoring in the 95th minute, you've scored too early?

I mean, fractionally, yeah.

No, so so I mean, I think I said to to I said whoever was standing on my right, was it you in the second half, bro?

I can't remember because we did move about quite a lot as the two people.

Yeah, we were swapping.

There was three of Wilson's Mac and mates with us.

And thank you very much for letting me tag along.

It really enhanced the experience for me.

But I do remember it was a quite fraught final four minutes of added time.

When Tommy Watson took that shot,

I clocked quite early.

That's going in.

That is going in.

The celebrations were incredible.

Celebrations at the final whistle, I couldn't quite enjoy because my glasses came off in the group home.

And I was really stressed that someone was going to stamp on them and then I'd have no specs for the rest of the day.

But thankfully, they remained intact.

So that slightly tempered my enjoyment.

But it was a terrific day.

I mean, I drank quite a bit after the game not a massive amount but quite a lot and but yesterday i was just emotionally and physically drained i just felt like i've been beaten up it's a long old day going to a play-off final and it's really stressful but yeah i feel much better today and so yeah but my fear was because suddenly had gone to basically no defensive midfielders to get the equalizer that they had Joe Bellingham and Lafayet playing deep, it was sort of like, if they don't score before extra time starts, they're in big trouble.

You know, they've got to just keep attacking because this is not a team that's going to be able to hold Chevy United out.

And so thankfully they did.

But then, you know, Aknodic has obviously been down and was off the pitch when the winner goes in.

So you knew it's going to be more out of time to be added on.

So you sort of think, oh, there's 90 seconds, but actually, it's probably longer.

I just went on and on and on and on.

And there's

the bloke in front of us, because Captain Shaggy, it'll be 103.

I've timed it.

It'll be 103.

And he was absolutely right.

But it occurred to me, you know, there's a lot of people saying afterwards, oh, yeah, but you know,

a lot of people, a lot of pundits, a lot of fans of other clubs, quite rightly saying you'll be a high chance you'll get utterly humiliated next season.

And that is true.

But actually, I don't really think it was even about

what the game meant.

What struck me was how few people were talking about being back in the Premier League next season.

They were just talking about celebrating the afternoon.

And I think that's really what it was about.

And the reason why I was a bloodblowing mess was it's not really about winning the game, it's about just a sense of community.

Yeah, um, and you're 35,000 of us together.

And I wonder, I wonder if that, you know, seeing Palace and Spurs, you know, and

Aberdeen and these sides that haven't won for ages, and you know, that kind of it feels like, you know, trophies are back in fashion in a weird kind of way.

And this isn't a trophy, but it's the same thing.

Like, it's an event.

It's an event to win, I guess.

And crying is suddenly loud again.

Yeah.

And it's a very odd thing.

You know, I'm, yeah, Barry's mentioned my stag dude.

Yeah, I'm getting married in just under five weeks into a Tottenham family.

So the idea that the universe would give us these wedding gifts in a space of four days, three days, of Tottenham can have a trophy, something can go up.

I mean, that feels like the universe has suddenly turned benign for the first time in a long time.

This is more evidence of Wilson's anti-Arsenal bias.

He's marrying into a Sporozer, man.

He's marrying the daughter of Chas and Dave.

So he really is going, he's going right in.

Anyway, look, we are going to do that tomorrow.

So we should get on with the Premier League.

Ben says, as Barry said on the preview pod, that Newcastle were nailed on to beat Everton, Villa were nailed onto beat United, and could see Chelsea dropping points.

Could he do me a favour and tell me his 53 favourite numbers between 1 and 49 so I can buy a ticket for the other six, please?

Oliver says, Was the insipid chase for the final Champions League places today the perfect embodiment of this season's Premier League?

It wasn't, Robin, it wasn't a sort of classic final day as it stands table, was it?

But there are a few moments, I guess.

Yeah, it was alright.

You know, you had Emmy Martinez and his

little wonder.

That was entertaining.

The controversy there.

And

yeah,

I think that probably was the upset of the day.

Everton beating Newcastle.

I think we all thought that

Everton had their day, didn't they?

And they had their wonderful send-off at Goodison Park and they

possibly down tools.

It was interesting to hear Eddie Howe saying afterwards that he felt that Newcastle were nervous and kind of were trying to force it a bit too much.

So that was, but it didn't matter in the end.

No,

it was never going to be amazingly entertaining, was it?

It was never going to be the, yeah, the sort of match of the day cutting between games because there was no need.

But no, it had, as I say, it had its moments.

If that's Emi Martinez's final moment for Aston Villa, I think, yeah, he's not going to go off with the...

quite as fond of farewell as perhaps he would have done.

That should be the statue, shouldn't it?

Him just hurtling out.

I mean, look, look, I mean, it's annoying to talk about referees' decisions, Wilson.

And, you know, as we've said, Martinez made a big mistake in this game and other things have happened, which is how Villa ended up on 66.

But it is a pivotal moment when Morgan Rogers nicks the ball off the keeper

and then the referee blows before the ball has gone into the net.

And it's such an easy thing to just wait, or maybe it isn't an easy thing to just wait.

Villa wrote to the PGMOL saying, with such stakes surrounding today's fixture, the club believe a more experienced referee should have been appointed.

Of the 10 referees to officiate across the Premier League today, Thomas Brammell was the second least experienced.

The decision to dislodge Morgan Rogers' goal, which would have given the club a 1-0 lead with 17 minutes remaining in the match, was a major contributing factor to the club not qualifying for the Champions League.

We acknowledge the outcome will not change for us, but we believe it's important to address the selection methodology to ensure that high-stakes matches are treated as such with regards to officiating and to ensure that the implemented VAR technology is allowed to be effective.

Do they have a point, Wilson?

No, it's just pathetic.

Just grow up.

It's not just Phillips.

Villards.

Every club's got into this.

It's just ridiculous.

Okay, the decision's wrong.

That's got out of the way straight away.

The goal should have stood.

But imagine you're that ref.

And I don't care who inexperienced is.

He's not a child.

You see inexperienced players chucked into big games regularly, and they regularly do very well.

If PJ MROL thinks he's good enough,

that's fine.

Do we think he had a bad game apart from that?

But the red card was the right decision, the penalty was the right decision.

So, one mistake.

The mistake,

you know, it's a really understandable mistake.

He's 20 yards away.

He's in the right position.

He sees Morgan Rogers going in, to be honest, late.

It's not a foul, but if Bayern Deer had collected that ball as you would expect him to do so, Rogers has gone in late.

So he's thinking, you know, the game's bubbling up.

There's been a couple of little sort of flash points.

He thinks, well, he's obviously kicked out of his hands.

I'll get on top of this straight away, blow my whistle.

I mean, are we really saying that after every foul, you want a referee to wait five or 10 seconds before making the decision, just in case something else happens.

It's not every foul, because that is right where the, you know, it's not in the centre circle.

Oh, right, every foul in the last sort of 25 yards of the pitch.

I mean, clearly we don't want that.

That would be nonsense.

It's just in this instance, it happens to lead to a goal.

But if he, you know, we're now saying to refs, you not just have to decide whether that's a foul, but you have to decide how certain you are to foul, what the possibility of a goal being scored afterwards, just in case you can go back.

We keep saying we don't want referees to not make decisions, that we don't want them to be relying on VAR to get them out of jail.

And then there's a referee who's made a decision.

Oh, right, it's wrong.

But you're talking about the goalkeeper sort of his glove being half an inch from the ball.

It's really hard to judge.

That's not why Villa aren't the Champions League.

Villa aren't in the Champions League because they haven't won enough games.

They haven't beaten the terrible Manchester United.

They've had their goalkeeper sent off for a stupid foul after a stupid backpass in the first half.

So Udi Emery, who's somebody I genuinely like, for him to say the key moment of the game is that decision.

The key moment of the game is Matty Cash's backpass and Martinez's disgraceful foul on Hoyland.

So I just hate clubs clubs trying to duck responsibility.

Don't put yourself in a position where refereeing error could get you into trouble.

Wilson's sitting on the fence there.

Do you think the Europa League is actually good for Villa?

I mean, obviously, the money matters for the Champions League and PSR and buying players.

But that matters enormously for Villa because they're really close to the edge.

If you look at Swiss Ramble, his sub-stack, which is excellent,

he says his calculation is in the last three years,

the three-year window, they're within 12 million of the threshold, of 105 million threshold, because of deductions.

Now, the deductions are allowed.

So, going into next season, yes, they do have the 60 million from selling John Duran, so that's quite a lot of breathing space.

But they lose the Jack Grealish sale off the other end of that, which is 100 million, and

they brought in players on high wages in January.

So, almost certainly, Martinez, and I would suspect one other is going to have to leave, and they're not going to be able to spend the money they might like to.

So, Europa League is great for them in that they've got a really good chance of winning it, that they will be one of the favourites.

But I think

the figures this season suggest that you actually make a loss on the Europa League unless you get to the quarterfinal beyond.

So that's, yeah, you might win the trophy.

And obviously if you're Tottenham, that's great.

If you're Villa, who don't have a great recent record in terms of winning European trophies, that's great.

But financially, it puts you under pressure.

So this will at the very least be a season of retrenchment consolidation next season for them.

Man United, who are also in this game, and they won this game, Barry.

Ruben Amrim did his, we were expecting, we were promised an on-pitch apology.

It perhaps wasn't as exciting as I was hoping it might be.

No,

well, he apologised for the poor season.

I was hoping he,

and the players were sort of standing behind him looking quite sheepish.

A couple of them looked quite annoyed.

I think Matthias

did look, you know, why are you doing this?

I was hoping he'd single out individuals for particular opprobrium

you know do you remember when he did this what have you been doing for the last three months

79 million you really

and then he could have played a montage of all the United players and gone elsewhere you know and been brilliant Scott McTominay's goals and all of this as well

Scott McTominay listening the Scudetta trophy

so yeah it was it was a an apology.

I'm not sure

issuing a public apology to the fans is a brilliant idea, but you know, they weren't jeered or barracked or anything.

They won this game.

They played quite well in it.

But Villa were terrible.

And

I get why Villa fans are angry over that decision by Thomas Brammel to blow his whistle prematurely.

or not prematurely as Wilson makes the case.

But they were tasked ultimately with getting a draw against the worst Manchester United team for the last 50 years and they

couldn't do it.

So I think they only have themselves to blame.

They really play badly.

We spoke to Dan Bardell yesterday and he I was hugely confident that Villa would beat Manchester United.

He was massively confident that they wouldn't.

Their record at all Trafford is atrocious and he was bang on.

They didn't turn up at all.

Chelsea 1-1-0 at the city ground.

Jim says, once the dust has settled, can we appreciate how crazy it is that Forrest, fancied for relegation by top, top pundits, thank you, Jim, are disappointed about just missing out on the Champions League.

On the other hand, Robin, Mike says on the 1st of April, Forest beat Man United 1-0.

After that weekend, with eight games to go, they had five points on Chelsea, six on City, seven on Newcastle, nine on Villa.

Finishing behind them all feels like such a wasted opportunity.

Like Forest Form has not been good recently.

No clean sheet since they beat United on April the 1st.

One win in the last five.

And when you think about how hard it is to get into the Champions League,

they have simultaneously kind of blown it, but also had a brilliant season.

Yeah, no, I think both things are true, aren't they?

I think, yeah, obviously the context is, it kind of undulates as the season goes on.

Before the season started, of course they would have taken this, absolutely.

And we would have said, what an amazing achievement.

But then, yeah, there were times this season where they were kind of second and there was title talk, wasn't there, for Notty and Forrest.

So, yeah, I think there might be a sense of disappointment.

But as you mentioned with Villa, you know, they're going to be one of the favourites.

They can win the Conference League, you know, and this could be a real adventure for the supporters.

I think, you know, you get in the Champions League, yes, incredible.

You get to go to some, you know, huge clubs and

make a lot of money.

But actually, as I said, they could win.

the Conference League.

They might be one of the favourites.

So I think they should see it that way.

For Chelsea, it's a strange one with Mareska, isn't it?

Because he has a very odd post-match saying everyone doubted us and all that.

It's like, well, mate, you were the one who kind of...

When we said

are you title challenges, told us to doubt us?

He would absolutely not.

Where are we?

Yeah, I found that a bit odd.

I mean,

what of Chelsea Wilson?

A billion pounds spent, as far as I can tell, haven't been good at all all season.

Oh, they had a had a little They had a little one just before Christmas.

Yeah, Cole Palm was amazing for a bit of the season.

Champions League qualification is huge, but I can't work out if they're hugely better than they were this time last year.

I just don't know.

Yeah, that's a fair question.

But I think

if Lars were here, he'd tell us to look at the underlying numbers.

I think the underlying numbers are pretty positive that if they'd actually had a centre forward, he could score goals.

And I sort of feel Nicholas Jackson gets a lot of criticism.

He doesn't entirely deserve.

But

he is good when he has space to run into.

Chelsea often play played against deep line defences, and that tends to sort of blunt his threat.

I also feel sorry for him because he arrived at Chelsea, having played 16 league games in his life, and suddenly he's meant to be the first choice number nine for

a Champions League team, which was a ludicrous expectation to have on him.

He's still learning.

And hopefully, they'll bring in, hopefully, from a Chelsea point of view, they'll bring in somebody in the summer from whom he can learn who will get him 20-25 goals.

And that clearly will propel them near the title.

So I think if you look at how they've played when Lavi is there, they look much better.

I'm interested about what's going on at the back because there seemed to be a lot of positive talk about Levi Colwell yesterday after he scored the goal.

But yeah, Chelsea was keen on getting Dean Housen, they want Mark Gay.

If they wanted the two of them, which I understand they did, where does that leave Colwell?

And Colbell obviously is a homegrown player, so if they are trying to balance PSR books, he'd be one they'd be looking to offload.

So, I'm not sure how that stands, whether that's changed because he didn't get Housen.

But I think Chelsea will bring in at least one centre-back and a centre-forward and maybe even another winger.

But yeah,

it's and

this goes back to something I've said before.

Is Chelsea's season good?

Well, if you look at the age profile of the squad and the youngest ever Premier League team, younger even than David O'Leary's leads team, then to get into the Champions League is great.

Look at how much money they're spent doing that.

And it's not so great.

I suppose they could, I don't know, sell Ken Bates to themselves or something like that.

Make some money that way.

They're in.

Newcastle are in.

Barry, they lost one.

They're at home to Everton.

And Pablo sort of sent, I think it's a quote of Eddie Howes,

or maybe it's him saying it.

I can't work it out.

Just said, when we lost to Brentford in December, we were behind Spurs in the league.

Believe me, that's a stretch.

And a point ahead of Manchester United.

Only four ahead of West Ham, picked up 46 points in 20 games since.

That's the same number of points Liverpool picked up in their first 20 Premier League games.

It's an astonishing run.

I know they were nervous and they didn't play well and Everton beat them.

But it's because I remember we talked a lot at the start of the season about, you know, murmurings about Eddie Howell's position.

They haven't really bought anyone.

It's an amazing achievement.

I don't...

It is a good achievement, but I think it's about par for what their fans were expecting at the start of the season.

I think anything less than Champions League qualification...

would have been a disappointment for them.

If you take, you know, obviously they won the Carabao Cup, so that made their season a success anyway.

But in terms of the league alone, I think finishing outside the top five would have been considered a disappointing finish.

They were a bit lucky in that Aston Villa really didn't turn up at United.

And

I think every Newcastle fan

over the age of 18 got two free pints from the club yesterday at the game.

And if they have any beer left, they might want to consider sending a keg Thomas Bramow's way because they owe him a drink.

But,

I mean, I think they could have finished higher.

They had a weird start of the season.

I can't remember the order it came in, but at one point they were playing well but not getting points.

And then they were playing badly and hoovering up a lot of points.

So

I think they need to bring in some new players.

Will they hold on to Isaac?

I don't know.

A lot of Newcastle fans seem to be be getting losing patience with Anthony Gordon, who hasn't played well for the last few months.

I think since maybe he got sent off and it became apparent he would miss the Carabao Cup final.

So there's a suggestion that he might need to be replaced.

Jacob Murphy, I think, has had a very good season.

I don't know if

he's good enough for them to kick on.

But

yeah, football does have a great capacity to make fools of us all.

I did not think they would have any trouble whatsoever beating Everton yesterday and they go and put in one of the worst performances of the season and lose.

Yeah, we did wonder if Jordan Pickford would still be shit-faced after the play-off final.

But he wasn't and he played incredibly well.

Aman sitting the other side to make it, Robin, continue their record of qualifying for the Champions League every year since 2011.

Needed a point.

Scored a lovely Gundelwen's finish is brilliant.

Haaland scored a penalty.

And so I don't know how we rate their season, but at least they are in for them, you know, to be in that when this rebuild happens over the summer is a necessity.

Yeah, I think they would rate their season pretty badly, though, wouldn't they?

No trophy for the loss of final to Palace.

You know, it's the absolute bare minimum that they'd get in the Champions League.

So, yeah, lots of,

I'm sure lots of change to come.

But yeah, I think we, I saw on Blue Sky, someone said, well, you know, hello, where are these charges?

You know, how long are we going to have to wait?

You know, and I think that's a valid point, isn't it?

I mean, do we know how long we're going to have to wait?

No, I mean,

you know, every

the end of every season, we have to, various Guardian writers have to do, you know, best goal, best manager, best player gripes of the season is one.

And

I was tasked with doing that, and my main gripe was, what's going on?

Why hasn't this been decided yet?

We thought it was going to happen in

late April, early May.

It hasn't.

It's now being predicted.

It will happen during the summer.

There's no guarantee that it will.

I think we all know when it's going to happen.

It's going to happen the weekend of the wedding, isn't it?

It's going to absolutely torpedo that.

So, because they're waiting for a big news story to Wilson's marriage.

Yeah, absolutely.

They're going to wait for sort of a dozen sort of leading football writers to be absolutely shit faced.

And then the racer.

Oh, just, you know, as Mrs.

The Future Mrs.

Wilson is walking up the aisle, and then everyone's phones just start beeping.

And, you know, Jack Pitt Brooks sprints out of the...

They all start sprinting out of the final.

If anyone knows a reason why these two should not be wed,

bing, bing, bing, bing.

Anyway.

Well, I can assure you, Wilson, even if that does happen, it won't affect my

because I wouldn't be trusted to deal with that.

Anyway, that'll do for part one.

That's the Champions League done.

We'll do the rest of the Premier League in part two.

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Safe home.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Liverpool lifted the Premier League trophy.

Mo Sala equalized late in the game.

His 29th league goal.

Got the golden boot.

He got the player of the season.

I mean, it it is, I suppose it's worth a moment, Wilson, on just how far above anyone else he has been this season.

Oh, yeah, he really has.

I mean, was it 47 goal involvements, which is a joint record with Andy Cole and Alan Shearer?

Arguably, his last third of a season has not been quite as good as the first two thirds, but he's still been exceptional.

And, you know, the thing Barry was talking about where you had to list your best player and everything.

I really hate giving it to the obvious person.

I really hate giving it to the person who scored loads of goals.

But you can't really avoid it this season.

It's got to be Salah because on the odd occasion when Liverpool have needed some inspiration I mean but essentially they won the league by being very efficient and very disciplined and controlling games but every now and again they needed somebody to give them a spark and he always did it I mean I remember I was at the game down at Bournemouth when they were under a bit of pressure and then he scored a brilliant brilliant finish from a breakaway and you know that that gives Liverpool a you know an enormous weapon that they know they've always they don't have to play brilliantly to to get a point or to win a game and that's one of the big differences I think between them and Arsenal.

That Arsenal really have to be on top to win games, whereas Liverpool are capable of winning them from a 50-50 position, and Salah's the main reason for that.

So, yeah, I think

it's not his first great season for them, but it's maybe his greatest.

Yeah, um, 29 goals, 18 assists, as you say, 47 goal involvement.

Um, other players to get uh more than 20, Isaac 23, Harlan 22, Mbemo 20, and Chris Wood, 20.

That's uh, that's your top scorer charts.

Alexis says, not a question, just a Liverpool Liverpool supporter chiming in to say how truly nice it was to see Trent get a nice send-off from Anfield.

And that is, that was actually quite heartwarming, Robin.

I thought.

Yeah, it sounds like they had to be told by Jürgen Klopp that he didn't like it.

And then they listened.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's the least he deserves.

Let's be honest.

I mean, I think, yeah,

it's tricky for me because I'm not in Liverpool supporters' shoes, and I'm sure they will feel very disappointed, some of them.

But, you know, he's going.

And I think, you know, he's not been an asshole about it.

And, you know, he said some beautiful words as well, saying, you know, that he's given everything and he still loves the club.

Yeah, no, that was nice.

It was also, it was lovely to see Alan Hanson give the trophy, actually.

That was that was really lovely, especially with his sort of recent health issues.

And it was also, I mean, it was the sort of one-upmanship of the classy touch, wasn't it?

With the both doing a guard of honour for each other, which amazes.

Endless guard of honour.

They keep clapping each other.

It just goes on all around the world.

I just want, yeah, let's just keep going.

Let's get Newcastle involved.

They won the Caraval Cup.

It's just, yeah, it's just, yeah, utter woke nonsense.

There was one pass from Trent to Nunes where you're just like, oh, that was absolutely so beautiful.

And, you know, good on Nunes for just hitting it straight at the keeper.

So we all just, you know, that was what we wanted to happen in that moment.

And a wonderful blatant red card for Ryan Grevenberg, who's also been brilliant this season, but like, good to have one of those absolute cast iron reds just to see out the season.

Tottenham lost 4-1 at home to Brighton.

Brighton then winning the completely pointless race for eighth place.

We have been teasing it for a little while.

It was exciting for a bit.

A brace for Jack Hinchelwood's had a decent season.

Diego Gomez got a brilliant goal.

Jack says, what's the most pissed you've ever been at work?

And have you ever been so pissed?

You almost had to be weekend at Bernie's to read the Spurs players on the bus.

Ender says of the 225,000 people at the Tottenham Trophy parade, how many were as pissed as Brennan Johnson?

And delivered his season three is always better than season two line, which is a good line, Wilson.

Is it?

It's not true, though, is it?

Well, this is, I knew you'd go, I knew that's what you'd say.

I presume I'm going to hear about, you know, Morse and Vera, etc., etc.

Go and run through them.

Look, I think you can make a case Midsummer Murder season three is better than season two.

I would accept that.

Morse, I think, had definitely hit its stride by season three, so I'm not against it there.

But you look at The Wire, I think the Doc story, Franks and Marker.

That's my favourite.

Oh, I've seen season of the Wire.

I thought the teacher one was better.

The school one was better than the port, yeah.

I preferred the port.

I'd have thought, I don't know, I'd have thought Poster Cogley might have sort of quite warmed to the

struggle of an immigrant from Europe into the new world.

Yeah, possible.

Yeah, evidently not.

Maybe, yeah.

I say he did clarify it, didn't he, by saying the next day somebody did tell him that, you know, occasionally they kill off the main character.

and so you know,

was more sacked in November

in season three.

That's a good point.

Look, he's done some good detectiving, and so we'll give him another year.

But oh god, he's let some murders slip now.

Portu says that in the dying embers of the glorious trophy grab, I was and out.

After seeing Ange so happy, I was and in.

After today, I'm back to ange out.

Anyone else share this thought pattern?

I said, I mean, I guess we'll find out.

They've got to decide soon, Barry, because they've got to decide who they're going to buy and all their targets and blah blah blah blah.

Yeah, I would like to see him stay.

I think Wilson thinks he probably should be

let go.

But I would like to see him stay.

But then

I'm either, you know, I'm,

is there a lot more gas in this explosion?

Could they conceivably get relegated next season?

Or, you know, it makes no difference to me personally.

But I would very much like it to see him stay.

I think he's a good presence in the Premier League.

Well, Sudden and the Spurs were both relegated in 1977, so we could do that again.

Feels unlikely, but you know, the Premier League is so ridiculous that, you know,

you could put it in your predictions, Barry, and just see what heat you get and then laugh at all of us.

Speaking of predictions, Max, after we were on the radio yesterday, I stopped off at a pub in Kennington to have some lunch.

And I was

finished my lunch and I was just doing a little bit of work on my laptop.

And three lads came in and sat at a nearby table.

And one of them started talking about my predictions for the promoted teams coming up out of the championship.

And it was Barry Glenn earning this, Barry Glendenning that.

And I, before he said anything bad, I thought, you know,

cleared my throat very loudly.

And the three of them looked around and nearly fell off their chairs.

Nottinghill though.

Isn't that Notting Hill?

See

you're Junior Roberts.

So

yeah, your man who'd been talking about me said, geez, what the hell are you doing here?

And I said,

I don't know what you said.

I just heard my name, so I thought I'd better let you know I'm here.

But I'm just assuming it was derogatory.

And he went, no, no, no, I'm a Leeds fan.

And I was,

yeah, but that was quite a funny moment.

You should have just said, I've been following you for some time and just sat really close next to him for the next two hours.

But yeah, Spurs lost 22 league games this season, the most ever by a team that has avoided relegation in a 38-game Premier League campaign.

Fascinating to see what happens.

So I can just clarify,

Barry was saying that I think he should go.

Definitely before the Europa League final, I thought he should go.

And then obviously, in the emotion of the occasion, you see how happy Spurs fans are, and you see all the celebration of the pitch.

And you sort of think, what I don't want to do is fall into a trap of thinking every club follows the Manchester United path, and this is necessarily the same as 10 Hog.

And I don't think it is the same as Ten Hag.

So, I've then, since then, I've been trying to construct a case to keep Poster Cogley, and I have to say, it's pretty hard.

But losing 22 games in a season is a lot.

So, the only Spurs manager's lost a high proportion was Peter McWilliam in 1912-13.

Now, Peter McWilliam is one of the all-time geniuses of, well, by the all-time geniuses, one of the great pre-Second World War geniuses of football.

He's the man who created Arthur Rowe, he created Vic Buckingham.

He did win the cup in

21.

I'm assuming it's a one because it's Tottenham.

Early 20s anyway, let's say 21.

So would Spurs be happy if in eight years they win the FA Cup and then in 40 years one of the players in this team goes on to lead them to the double?

I think they probably would.

So that's a case of keep us cognu.

And what did he say in the trophy parade?

Did he say, you know, the third tapestry is always better than the second?

What was his mind?

Hey, Robin, you were at the big one.

Southampton won Arsenal 2.

How was it?

Pretty uneventful, to be honest.

Yeah, Kieran Tierney scored, which was lovely.

They lifted him up because that was his last

game for Arsenal.

He's going to rejoin Celtic.

And Will Still was there.

Yeah, so that was the big thing.

He'll be leading Southampton next season.

And yeah,

we've got two Sunderland fans as well.

It was nice to see Ross Stewart score after his, you know, terrible injury problems.

So he was rather happy for Southampton.

So, yeah, it would be really interesting to see how he gets on.

Will still end Southampton next season in the championship.

32 years old.

Yeah, just going to leave that there.

It's not on, is it?

It's not acceptable.

Arsenal's top scorer in the Premier League was Kai Habats with nine.

The first time since 1923-24 that they haven't had a player score 10-plus league goals in a campaign, which does lead to the question, Barry, do they need to sign a striker

i think they definitely need to sign a striker um

you don't need to have be a genius to to figure that one out

i i guess it's been a disappointing season for arsenal they

i'd say the fans probably didn't expect him to get to a champions league semi-final but they were way off it in the the Premier League and considering everyone thought it would be between them and City and City

had that massive drop-off,

it's got to be viewed as an opportunity loss when you consider all the

leads they threw away throughout the season.

There's no guarantee you're going to win all these games you have leads in, but or you should win all these games you have leads in, but you sh you should win a lot of them.

And they they just threw away so many cheap points.

I do think legitimately they they can they can say they had a big injury crisis issue.

You know, they lost Saka for ages for three months.

They lost Havertz

for three months.

Berdegaard is out for a while.

Berdegaard Jesus is out.

He did his ACL.

So actually, I think, and then actually Marino

Gabrielle.

And then, yeah, they've had Saliba.

You know, I think genuinely, I know a lot of, pretty much all Premier League clubs have a crisis of injury at some point during the season, but I think...

Genuinely, they can point to that.

It might be an issue with the Arsenal team, you know,

something they need to reflect on in terms of the know, strength and conditioning team.

But I do, especially in the same area of the pitch, um, I think they can point to that.

And I suppose before Spurs fans yell at us about losing 20 seconds, they also legitimately had a had a terrible one.

Um, Wilson, is it as simple as just a number nine for Arsenal, or

do they have to change anything?

I mean, I think the number nine's the the biggest issue.

I think they probably need uh a holding midfielder, especially if Thomas Party leaves, which seems likely-ish, or certainly a strong possibility that they need somebody to sit alongside Declan Declan Rice.

I think Declan Rice is best when he's got a bit of freedom to break forward.

They've got to sort out Marlis Viscali's contract, which expires next summer.

And I think talks have not been going well from what I hear.

And Mel Madrid is sort of sniffing around there.

Imagine Mel Madrid wanting a highly rated Premier League fullback for free.

Almost unimaginable, isn't it?

So there's a few things to sort out.

But I also think

the set plays,

i think are sort of simultaneously uh a huge advantage for them and they've also become a bit of a burden that

you know they they they play well they're getting a rhythm they're getting a flow then they get a free kick and then they spend you know 90 seconds taking it and they lose the rhythm but gotten in position to get the free kick so they need to work out a way and i understand that kind of delaying the taking of it is supposed to affect the concentration of the defense but the problem is everybody now knows that so the defenders are sort of almost not concentrating for the first 30 seconds and that advantage seems to have sort of slightly sort of faded away and at the same time they're they're they're hampering themselves because they lose a bit of rhythm so i just i think there's just a few tweaks of balance there but i mean i i don't think arteta's under pressure as such but but maybe maybe he would become under pressure next season if if they they don't come a bit closer to to a trophy Does anyone have any strong thoughts on Will still?

Because I agree with Robin that I think it is really interesting, and he's had a really interesting career path that

I'm vaguely aware of, but not totally across.

Can anyone furnish the listeners who don't know of Will Still's entire background?

Well, he was very close, wasn't he, to

joining Sundon last season and didn't.

And he went to Lance,

who finished eighth, I think, in the French league.

So I don't really know if that's...

you know what Lance fans would expect.

But it does seem telling that

he's now prepared to take a championship job where he wasn't last season.

Well, I think part of the reason for his decision is that he's stepping out with Emma Saunders,

who

sports reporter and presenter who

many listeners will be familiar with from her work on Sky.

And I think she does stuff on TNT in the BBC as well.

But Emma's had some health issues in the past six months.

So he wants to move back to England so he can be with her.

And obviously, because she's his girlfriend, and or I'm not sure, I don't think they're married, or they might be getting married, but that that is a major factor in his decision to return to England.

But he's not actually managed in England before.

This is his first job in English football.

So he's kind of Belgian-born to England English parents.

And yeah, I mean, I think there was some slightly false information that he kind of started on football manager.

I mean, I think, yeah, but where we all started.

Exactly.

That's why I championed your manager 93.

Well, I mean, I really treble champions on the Amstrad is where I really started.

And getting Altering him to the first division.

And look where you are now, you know.

It couldn't

be right at the top.

So, yeah, I think

he's done an enormously impressive career at the age of 32 already.

Yeah, I know.

So, yeah, as I say, it's going to be interesting.

It will be.

West Ham won 3-1 at Ipswich.

Jared Bowen scored a lovely goal.

Do you think he'll stay, Barry?

I have no idea.

It's the answer to that question.

His wife, To Be, was on her Hendu in Obiza this weekend, just gone.

At one point, she was wearing a Jared Bowen replica shirt and shorts.

Right.

Socks.

I don't know how much of a factor the Danny Dyer Sr.,

his father-in-law,

would he have a say in whether he stays or goes?

Does he want to risk incurring the wrath of the man who fronted

football's what is it, something factories?

Biggest headbuts or something.

I don't know.

Real football factories.

Yeah, I think.

Which I was on one of them.

Oh, were you?

Wait.

Yeah.

It was just a

caught on CCTV.

I was a talking head on the Balkan one.

I'd never seen the show, and I kind of dressed entirely in a broken foot.

I turned up in a corduroy jacket, looking like a sort of a geography teacher who sort of wandered down the wrong alley.

And they filmed it in sort of half-light, sort of at dusk in this sort of,

yeah, this sort of back alley in East London with graffiti everywhere.

And I was there, sort of,

he was giving these long dispositions on Falken politics.

Well, there's a mate of mine who,

well,

let's not beat around the bush.

He was stoned out of his head and

you know, was watching it.

And then suddenly the eye came on.

Then he woke up the next morning and had to kind of go back and check and see if this was a fever dream brought on by the weed.

I mean, I think it's fair to say that you could most of the time be mistaken for a substitute geography teacher.

I don't think that is not

kind.

That's not a stretch.

You know, it's not on the table.

The Wilson Wardrobe probably doesn't have a lot of Stone Island in it.

That

might have been more suitable for that particular recording session.

Jared Bones, second, by the way, in the dispossessed chart, he gave the ball away 77 times.

Well, number one, Mohamed Kudos.

Kudos gave it away 93 times.

So well done to the pair of them.

They both scored nicely.

Is that yesterday or over the season?

Ipstrich's giving a lot of opportunity there to run with the ball.

Yes, Wilson?

No, just on Bowen's future.

I mean, he is 28 and his contract runs to 2030.

So it would cost a lot of money to get him away from West Ham.

And, you know, for that price, for somebody at that stage of his career, it's unlikely to happen, I think.

Yeah, Liam DeLap will go somewhere.

Lots of rumours about Manchester United, but we do not know yet.

Bournemouth beat Lester 2-0.

56 points makes it Bournemouth's best Premier League season ever.

They got 53 points under Eddie Howe in 2016-17.

A couple of goals for Semenia.

The second one he caught really nicely.

And Matt says, is Wolves Equalizer the most get-it-launch, get-it-launch goal this season?

Goal kick, flick-on, brilliant hit by Manetzi.

And the best thing about it, Robin,

what makes it so Sunday league is it's a centre-back taking the goal kick.

That is perfect.

Because the goalkeepers, yeah, after a heavy night, has sort of pulled something and yeah, it's just had enough.

Just can't kick, no.

You just have a keeper who just can't ever can't do goal kicks ever.

Yeah, yeah, no, you're right.

Wonderful, wonderful.

I'm sure John Bruin was rubbing his hands together watching that.

Are there any other interesting stats?

The most yellow cards, Chelsea 99.

Most red cards, Arsenal 6.

Leicester didn't have a player sent off all season.

Someone will ring up a phone and going, that stat speaks volumes.

Get as many players sent off as you can.

Show some heart.

I think what's quite a significant stat, so the three relegated teams, they all lost yesterday.

They have between them been the worst three

relegated teams ever.

And last season's three relegated teams between them were the worst three before that.

And it's quite a significant difference in points tallies, which does suggest that the gulf between the championship and the Premier League is ever-widening.

We'll need to wait a few more years to see if that's going to become a trend or if it's just slightly anomalous for these two seasons.

I was just going to offer a start.

Please.

So, okay.

I'm going to ask each a question.

I was the same question.

Right.

How many...

Is it a quiz?

Is it kind of, you know, first on the buzzer?

How many teachers at your junior school had wooden legs?

None.

None for me in my life.

Not that I know of.

I didn't pay

an awful lot of attention to all of their legs.

Although some of mine were presentation brothers who wore long cassock, so I never really saw their legs.

They may have all had wooden legs.

So

I got to the Admiralty off Trafalgar Square

Saturday night and met somebody who'd been at my junior school who I literally hadn't seen since I was 11.

And we were talking about the junior school

and it just suddenly came up in the course conversation.

There's 12 teachers at the school, right?

Three of them had wooden legs, which gave us a completely false impression of what adult life was like.

I just thought a quarter of all adults had a wooden leg.

And

it then sort of became like the sort of before Yorkshireman sketch.

Oh, you had a teacher with two legs.

Well, you dreamed of a teacher with two legs.

Yeah, that stats more interesting than mine.

Less Premier League based, but there were 1,091 goals scored this season.

The second highest total in a 38-game Premier League campaign.

I mean,

as Barry and I established on Thursday, we can't remember any, or Wednesday, we can't remember any of them.

Well, I had to do my goal of the season yesterday for that thing football Ed Marcus makes us do the season.

I couldn't remember any goals apart from Cowrell Matomas.

I found a video on YouTube of

collaboration, but

a montage?

Yeah, just the best goals of the season so far.

Okay, yeah.

You've never sounded more like a really old man, Barry, than that last 20 seconds man point out.

Anyway, so I said, oh, this is great.

I'll watch this.

And

I was about 20 goals in.

And then I realised this has gone on for another 30 minutes.

And then I was watching this and then the blokes at the next table started talking about me and I went I don't want to stay in this pub if people are going to be bitching about me behind my back while I'm there

so I'd seen about 12 goals at this point couldn't remember any of them like having seen them before even though I obviously had so I eventually just picked a really good Bournemouth corner routine and went with that so but yeah I

you watch all these games, all these goals, and they just don't stay in my head for any length of time whatsoever.

But I think one of the problems this season is,

and Leminia Mal is kind of part of the problem here.

That

the goal you could always score in terms of the soccer of cutting in from a wig and whipping it in the far corner just happens all the time.

And if it happened 10 years ago, we'd have thought it was a brilliant goal.

And we're now like, oh, it's just one of those goals again.

And I ended up going for Matomas just because it was a little bit different.

You have the control and then the touch touch together.

The touch is so good.

But I sort of feel that I almost underrate Yamal because he just scores that same goal all the time.

And it's almost become too, it's almost become like a cheat code as it was in, yeah, it's not a cheat code in sensible soccer, but it felt a bit like cheat on sensible soccer.

That the kind of, oh, I've got the ball, the special sense of dude, I've scored.

I like the way, Wilson, you've established that it definitely wasn't a cheat code in sensible soccer, but it still could be in actual football at the highest level.

That's good.

It just sort of feels a bit predictable.

I don't know why it started to happen.

Why is that goal now so common?

Did it not...

I mean, Ayan Robin did it a lot, didn't he?

Yeah, but he did it in a sort of...

I don't know.

He was one player, rather than lots of players.

I think he varied his finishes a bit more.

I mean, some of them were high, some of them were low.

And that's not much, I know.

But

I don't mind one player having a sort of...

Are you saying football was better back in the day?

Is that what you were talking about?

I'm just saying that it's sort of something that I don't get why it's suddenly taken off.

Are balls behaving differently?

I don't know.

Is it to do with a number of inverted wings?

I don't know.

I feel there's a lot of goals that I would have been awestruck by 10 years ago.

I'm now like, oh, it's just another one of those really good goals.

Makes me think, you know, occasionally have thoughts, you know, producer Joel and I are like, look, you know, how do we stay at the top of the football podcast charts?

Do you know, do we need to, do we need to speak to the youth?

And in the last five minutes, we've had Barry going, I was fine on YouTube at a video clicking along.

and now Wilson's talking about these modern-fangled balls.

Maybe we just stay in our lane.

People know it, don't they?

Robin, do you have a goal of the season?

Could you think of what?

I mean, I thought Marmouche's was great, but I know it was only last week.

The Matoma one is brilliant.

You know, I agree with.

I'm kind of now, I'm more into goals that you don't see very often.

I do feel like, even though Marmouche's was great, it's like it is just a long-ranger, and it's kind of one you see.

They're sort of tenner-penny these days.

I really liked Jared Bowen's goal.

Was it last week when he controlled it on his

constellation goal?

Yeah, and it's because it was a constellation, it didn't get.

It's just and Matomas, as you said.

I just think

you want it to be slightly special, don't you?

Slightly different.

And those are the sort of goal.

Yeah, I mean, as I say, that the Jared Bowen one happened last week.

That's about as far as my memory at this stage of my life will go.

All right, that'll do for part two.

Part three will do any other business.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Richard says, Aberdeen are good, aren't they, Barry?

Cam says, please talk about the mighty Aberdeen and the year of the underdog.

Kevin says, Max, we're Cambridge United wrong to let Dimitar Mitov leave for cup glory with Aberdeen.

I think he went to St.

Johnson or somewhere before, but yeah, he was the keeper for us in the pandemic year when we went out from League Two.

He played brilliantly at St.

James's Park in the FA Cup third-round win.

And then he was the hero for Aberdeen as he saved two pounds in the shootout.

And they they beat Celtic.

And I mean, a bit like Barry, a bit like mentioning the scenes for Palace and the, you know, Tottenham High Road.

This for Aberdeen, who hadn't won in, I think, 35 years, 34, 35 years, the Scottish Cup.

It's just absolutely marvellous.

Yeah, my mind was well and truly boggled when I heard they hadn't won the Scottish Cup for 35 years because I presume they won it every sort of six or seven years.

The odd year you get when Rangers or Celtic don't win it.

I didn't see the game, I'm afraid, because it was at Wembley.

But

fair play to them.

Nothing else to add.

I believe Casper Schmeichel made a boo-boo for their goal.

Yeah, I've seen it.

Yeah, Casper Schmeichel makes a real rick for their equaliser, which was late on Aberdeen.

Celtic had all the pressure.

Mitoff made a good save late on as well to keep them in it, I think, in extra time.

And yeah, was the hero in the penalty shootout.

But yeah, brilliant for them.

Tangitated says, were these the most joyous and joyful cup results ever?

Newcastle, Palace, Spurs, Aberdeen, and Arsenal's women, Robin.

And like no one gave them a hope against Barcelona.

And to win the Champions League, I mean, great for Arsenal to win a Champions League just, you know, three days after Spurs have won a European trophy, just to be like, okay.

But fair play to Arsenal because I don't think anyone predicted it.

I didn't.

I didn't give them a prayer, honestly.

But it just shows football a one-off result, a one-off game.

And they were perfect, Arsenal women.

They executed this game plan that Renee Slagers gave them to perfection.

Barcelona missed a couple of chances because you need them to not be perfect, but they were absolutely sensational.

And just what a mad season they've had.

You know, Jonas Edeval resigned after they lost 5-2 to Bayern Munich in the group stage of the Champions League.

It looked like they were going out.

Rene Slagers, his, you know, his assistant, comes in and has totally transformed them.

And I got a bit emotional watching it because, you know, I immediately thought of was people like Susie Rack and Tim Stillman who were there.

They'd been following them when they were, you know, they were basically the only people in the crowd, you know, and it was just it was it was wonderful to see and yeah, a incredible winning goal from Stina Blacksenese, who is a bit of a meme.

She's like, she's she scores mad goals like she I remember she scored one last season with she kind of fell over the ball and it came off her bum and squirted in.

She's a bit you know erratic.

So it was very funny that she was scored the winning goal in the Champions League.

And then yes, great to see the scenes afterwards in the dressing room and then them off the plane yesterday, all coming off it with their sunglasses on.

I think they really enjoyed themselves.

And yeah, no, it's just wonderful.

And again, that picture of Leah Williamson as a mascot when they won it in 2007.

She did not put her foot wrong.

She was fantastic.

And yeah, on a personal level, I do hope that strikes a bit of a psychological blow against Spain, the Euros, for the Lionesses in the summer.

Yeah, absolutely.

A detailed review of that, of course, on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly.

Tomorrow, Faker Other, Susie Rack, Tim Stillman, and Tom Gary are the panel for that.

The England squad's been announced.

Yes, we need more football.

Come on, let's just keep it coming.

Some people getting very exercised about who isn't in the squad to take on Andorra in a qualifier and Senegal.

I mean, there are some Henderson's

inclusion does seem slightly weird to me.

Ivan Tony's come in.

He's got a lot of goals in the Saudi league.

Are you exercised, Wilson?

No, I mean, I just think people,

this is a consistent issue, not just with England, but every country all the time.

People seem to think squad selection is like a blue-peter badge for playing well.

It's not.

It's about picking the best squad for winning a tournament.

So why has he brought in Ivan Toney?

I assume it's because he's seen he scored loads of goals in Saudi Arabia, but isn't sure just how sharp he is.

So he wants to have a look at him in two games where England, well, one's a friendly and one of them's a game where like Schuling will beat Andorra come what may.

So he wants to look at him.

That's totally logical and reasonable.

Why is Jordan Henderson in there?

Because I think Jordan Henderson, while he may not be a first choice or even a second choice on the pitch, I think he's brilliant off the pitch.

Everybody who's ever worked with him says, you know, he's great at keeping squad morale, squad discipline.

He'll make sure if he's wearing the right coloured polo shirt.

He claps and says, come on really well.

And

that's something I think England lacked at the Euros.

I don't know why you'd give him a place in the 26, I say, for the World Cup, but have him around the squad because he just sort of keeps everything ticking over and keeps everything going.

So, I just

think you've got to, if you're criticising the squad, you've got to criticise it on those grounds.

So, Jared Bowen, you can say, is unlucky not to be in there because he's played pretty well in a pretty average West Ham season.

But he was in the last squad.

Tukel looked at him and obviously decided that in an area of the pitch where he can have a lot of competition, he's not quite what he's looking for.

Well, that's fine.

There's no point taking a player he doesn't particularly want.

It's unfortunate for Bowen.

Other managers might want him.

But if Tukel doesn't think he's right for the squad, then

that's his decision.

And it's not like he's picking some Jokers to replace him.

He's picking very good players to be in his stead.

So I think, particularly, this international window,

it's about

assessing players, assessing squad dynamics rather than necessarily the results.

Matt says Surrey just announced their recent game against Yorkshire drew their highest crowd for a county championship games in the 21st century.

To what extent can this be attributed to Wilson's stag do being in attendance?

Well, we did make up more than 1% of the crowd on the Friday.

So to an extent, yes, that is true.

Well done.

It was good.

I had a great day.

I sort of feel like I've been on an eight-day stag do now.

My liver

has had to go back to student mode.

I've drank more with people I knew when I was like 15 than

at any point in the last 30-odd years.

And have you enjoyed it?

Yeah, it's been great.

Yeah.

I mean, I have to say, my fitness regimen's taking a bit of a whack, and I

might have to be a bit careful to fit into the suit, but we'll get there.

Okay.

Well, many congratulations on being part of a record-breaking county championship attendance.

Oh, thank you very much.

And I'm glad you've had a lovely week.

And I'm glad you all had a lovely weekend, Barry.

And I'm glad you're here, Robin.

And I presume like me, just still alive.

That's all we can be as parents of young children.

Solidarity.

Yeah, although Mrs.

Rushdon did did say, Could you just, every time we go into a cafe and you just say, you know, someone comes up, and I just say, oh my god, and I just look like shit.

Just be a bit more upbeat about the whole thing.

There are some nice parts to it.

So, yeah.

And she listens to the other podcast.

So I can, you know, I can say what are the nice parts, just out of curiosity.

Any friends of mine I know who have small children, I have yet to see any positives.

The thing is, I find it...

I don't...

I don't think people...

I don't think people like hearing people talking about how adorable their children are.

They do these indescribably wonderful, beautiful things on a daily basis that make you laugh and make you smile.

And then the rest of the time, they ruin your existence.

But the good things they do just outweigh the bad things they do.

I know, Robin, if you would.

No, that's exactly right.

Those things are extremely boring to people who, you know, don't have, not even who don't have kids.

It's other people, even other people's kids, right, Max?

It's just yours.

So, so we are.

I don't want to see videos of Robin's kids doing cute things.

Don't care.

Did you ever worry about being gaslit by biology?

There's every chance.

Genetic human need to reproduce is kind of conning you that these are good things when actually it's just a terrible drain on resources and emotion

I mean it's possible I hadn't you know that's something for me to ruminate on while I watch one episode of Murders in the Building, while I maybe have one solitary can of Stara Prahman before I go to sleep at 8 p.m.

because I know I'm going to be up at 11, 2, 4, and then 5:30 for the day.

But look, thanks for putting it in my mind, Wilson.

I appreciate it.

Anyway, that'll do it for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Barry.

Thank you, Max.

Thanks, Wilson.

Cheers, thank you.

Thank you, Robin.

Thanks, Max.

Football Weekly is produced by Silas Gray.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

We'll do a full playoff review tomorrow.

This is The Guardian.