Arsenal down and out in Paris. What now? Football Weekly Extra

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

And so it'll be Paris Saint-Germain taking on into Milan in the final of the Champions League.

In the end, it was comfortable for PSG.

Arsenal though were brilliant for 20 minutes.

Rice headed wide.

And then Donna Rummer saved brilliantly from Martinelli and the strongest palm wide from Martin Odegaard.

But then PSG got into gear.

Fabian Ruiz took one lovely touch and smashed at home.

And after that, Arsenal struggled to create.

And one of those penalties, someone change the rules, please.

And someone let us know when Vettinha finishes his run-up.

Hakimi scored shortly afterwards.

And although Saka scored one and missed another, the Gunners fell short.

So one trophy in six years for Arteta.

Is that enough?

He has improved this team so much and in doing so has changed the expectations.

No one's asked this before, but do they need a striker?

Also, today, a brief look ahead to Thursday's European Action pod special out tomorrow on that.

The race for fifth place, the race for eighth place, your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hello, Max.

Mike says the Eau Claire Bandini Nexus drops to a 50% success rate.

Yes, Nikki Bandini, hello.

Morning.

Sorry, guys.

Bonjour sava, Philippe Eau Claire.

Just be desolate.

desolate.

Bonjour.

All right.

So PSG are through then.

They won 2-1 last night.

3-1 on aggregate.

That means they knocked out Liverpool, Astnavilla, and Arsenal on their way to the final.

Is it fair to say Philippe over two legs, the better side one?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I don't think anybody would say anything different.

The better side in London,

the better side for perhaps two-thirds of the game in Paris.

And I can't say it's very much of of a

huge surprise.

Quite a few people had Arsenal favorites for some reason against PSG, but no.

I have to say that I will have some regrets like everybody else will have,

because

even if Arsenal totally went through their game the wrong way in the first leg, in the second, my goodness, they had exactly the right attitude.

They did exactly the right thing.

Unfortunately, that's what happens when you come across a team which has got a goalkeeper who's got the span of an albatross and

who has also some other fairly gifted birds to go along with the big one.

There's some regrets because honestly, the way they prepared that second game was up to superb.

They were as good in Paris as Paris had been in London for the first 20 minutes.

And that's a very, very high compliment.

But in the end, if you look at it, you might regret, yes, the chances which have been missed, the fact that they have a fantastic keeper times two, the fact that when they still had a chance to get back into the game, Hakimi scored and that was the end of it.

That's it.

All the air was knocked out.

So regrets, yes, but at the same time, I think

definitely the sense that progress has been made in the performances.

But as well, I think it shows into...

quite sharp light what is still missing from that Arsenal team.

All the things that we can eulogize about the fact that they really turned up last night.

There's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.

There's nothing to regret, really, about last night.

But,

yes,

I see Nikki going a bit like a Ringo star, Ringo Star, nothing dog in the Beatles car at the back.

And maybe there are things to regret, but I don't want to admit it.

Philippe, you're saying regrets.

You've had a few.

But enough that you can mention all of them in a two-minute piece on the podcast.

Yeah, look, you're right.

That first 20 minutes, Nikki, they were brilliant.

Jimmy says, would Donna Rummer have saved Barry's head?

I guess the point is they had to score when they had that dominance.

And it is hard, isn't it?

If Alexander Isak, apologies, Newcastle fans, were playing for them, it doesn't mean that Donner Rummer wouldn't have saved that shot from Martin Odegaard, I guess.

Yeah,

the regrets question is complicated, isn't it?

Because there's layers to that.

And one layer is, should it be a regret for Arsenal that they didn't act in January when they knew that there was this situation beginning to develop with the lack of strikers?

Absolutely I think that should be a regret and I think that PSG are a great model for actually

you can do things in January that help you a lot because Kwitcha Gratzgalia has been absolutely critical to them reaching this Champions League final.

So you can do business in January if you're smart about it.

You have to be smart about it, but you can do things that help your team get to where they're trying to go.

In a more specific sense, I think there's still some room for regrets on the pitch, too.

I think, even at incredibly, even at 3-2 down in the tie, there is that moment where Saka goes through and he's just scored once, and you think if he takes a chance a second time,

who knows?

Because PSG have their own demons, they have their own past, and things that might cause them to wobble in that moment and panic.

So, there are things.

And on the other side of that, there is Donna Rumma.

And

it's a thing I've been musing on since last night is how we talk about goalkeepers, because it almost feels like when we talk about this game, it's who deserves what and who did what.

And deserve somehow doesn't include the fact that having a really good goalkeeper might help you deserve it a bit more because he's part of the team.

There was a moment when it was actually suddenly 1-0 on the night, another sack of chance.

There was that one where he tries to lift it over from the right-hand side.

And it's one of those saves where you think if it's just a normal-sized goalkeeper instead of Donaruma, who's this absolute, as you were saying, albatross, maybe they don't quite get the fingertips to it, and it sneaks in and the camera cuts to Saka and he's just shaking his head and doing this little shrug, like, what are we supposed to do about this?

It's not fair.

It's not fair.

They're not allowed to have that guy there in the way.

And I think there's an understandable some of that in Arsenal's feeling about it.

It's not fair that they're allowed to have a keeper that good, but yeah, it's part of your team, Harry Keeper, who's that good.

Yeah, the wingspan of an albatross, by the way, is three meters, which feels about

accurate for Donaruma, doesn't it?

And like that,

that for PSG to score.

I mean, it wasn't their first crowd.

Shelly hit the post, aren't they, Barry?

But then Ruiz, it feels like they've done nothing, PSG.

And his first touch was, I mean, both touches were pretty good, to be fair.

Can I just start by saying, I was aware coming into this podcast that I was going to be on with two Arsenal fans, and I was wondering, right, do I need to be the pantomime villain who gets really stuck into the Arsenal here for their latest failure?

But I think there's two ways you can frame the outcome of this tie.

The first is to say that Arsenal were plucky, valiant losers, that they played well for extended periods over two legs at the end of a season in which they lost several key players to injury and were forced to play half of it without a recognised striker.

And then they've come up with this nation-state-owned, evil Behemos who had a goalkeeper in such inspirational form.

And that was a bit unlucky.

And then the second way to frame it, I suppose, is to say that having been reduced to Pulis-era stoke tactics,

this team of serial bottlers who are backed by a Trump apologist American billionaire who have spent £700 million on players in four years and who play in a stadium called the Emirates and wear badges on their sleeves urging people to go go on holidays to an African state run by a bloodthirsty dictator have come up short again.

They've lost their fourth semi-final in a row.

They've lost their second semi-final this season.

They've lost all four legs above these semi-finals.

And this is a season in which they were expected to challenge for the title, but they're 15 points off the pace and might not even finish second.

I think the truth is probably somewhere in between.

I mean, I did lie.

I must say.

What was your question?

My question was

about Fabian Ruiz's first touch, actually.

I mean, I'll go to Philippe on that because it really was.

I mean,

it's an excellent answer to a question I didn't ask, Barry, but that's fine.

Well, I will say, in answer to your question, Arsenal had three good chances, didn't score from any of them.

PSG then created three good chances in a row, scored one of them.

There's your difference.

And

the goal they did score, the goal Ruiz scored, was very similar to the goal Odegaard didn't score, if you get my drift.

The difference being that Donner Roma saved Odegaard's shot, Raya didn't save

Ruiz.

It took a little deflection, didn't it?

But the way he did.

No, I'm not blaming Raya.

I'm just that fine margins, Max.

Yeah, I actually almost hesitate to call the goal that Fabian Ruiz scored a chance

because so few players would be able to execute what he did.

That probably in XG is probably 0.01 or something like that.

The clarity of mind of thought he had for the first touch to set himself

and then the execution, I mean, the point of impact between the boot and the ball is just absolutely exquisite, isn't it?

That

it's amazing that the point of impact in itself is exquisite.

It's perfection.

And then the trajectory of the ball is perfection.

And the pace of the ball is such that it seems to go slowly, which is a typical thing of really quick strikes.

And no, it's one of the purest strikes I've seen all season, I must say.

And

completely out of the blue.

But this being said,

the fact that Fabian Ruiz is an exceptional footballer is not exactly something that we didn't know about before that.

That is true.

And I guess, Nikin, a bit like

how at the Emirates, that Dembele Gold knocked the stuffing out of Arsenal a bit.

You felt the same here that because they'd been so good and they hadn't scored and their PSG did that.

It just took them.

I don't know if they ever really got going again.

Yeah, goals change games.

It's absolutely true in this entire tie.

We talked about it last week when we were talking about the atmosphere at the Emirates and how PSG scoring so early just sucked everything out of the stadium and

how that energy then ends up defining the entire, certainly at least the whole first half of that game, I think.

And of course, it's easy to go, oh, yes, if Declan Rice puts his header on target, if Donald Ruma doesn't make that incredible say from Eaudegarde, the game is different.

Of course it is.

That's how football works.

When the ball goes in, the game changes because the score changes and how everyone acts changes around that.

I think that while it's true that we can sort of make that simplistic point, completely valid point, but simplistic point that Fabian Roos is an excellent footballer.

Like PSG are more than some of their parts.

PSG absolutely deserves in this conversation.

And of course, we're coming at it from the point of view of a couple of Arsenal fans on the podcast and the fact that we've got probably a majority English-speaking audience.

But

PSG under Louis Enrique have absolutely gone to a level that is beyond anything they've managed in these past years of trying to win the Champions League.

It's a team that has an incredibly clear identity, a team that has recruited to that identity, to bring it back to Cavarris Skellia, as someone who is not just a brilliant dribbler.

And it's really thrilling as someone who has seen him emerge at Napoli and then

just not really be a good fit with Antonio Conte.

It has to be said.

I know Conte was gutted to lose him in the middle of the season, but he wasn't a great fit with him in terms of what...

what was happening on the pitch and he was looking like a shadow of himself, not completing nearly as many dribbles as he did.

And he's gone somewhere in PSG where Osen Rike has all at once managed to empower those forwards, give himself those players with that ability to run and to be brave and to take the spaces they want to, but also who are going to track back and defend and work hard.

And I think Rat Skelly is really,

really impressive as a player who does all of that.

And I think there's all sorts of players in that team who I see just playing at levels that they weren't always elsewhere.

I think Fabian Ruiz is playing at an incredible level.

I think Hakimi, whose goal was really, really well struck and had a great night.

Again, the levels these guys are getting to,

it's of course about their talent, but I do think Luis Enrique has done an extraordinary job there this season.

I think we should also have a word for the one player who is, in a way,

the link between all of the PSGs of the past few years.

Somebody who comes from Italy as well.

And as so many did, you know, Louis Marquinhos, who was at Roma, wasn't he?

He's now in his 12th or 13th year at PSG,

which is extraordinary when you think about it.

What is amazing is that this man who has been through all the stages of the PSG transformations, metamorphoses, whatever you want to call them, the PSG of Zlatan and Beckham, but also the PSG of Neymar and also the PSG of Messi and also the PSG of Bappe and all of this and now the PSG of Wuisenrique

and he's there and he's the captain and he's the one player who has kept everything together the whole time through.

And I think he deserves a big pat on the back for that.

And he's also a player, whereas there are quite a few players who went to PSG I can think of were attracted by the lifestyle in Paris, the very

monies that they would be given.

I think Markinho essentially he's

he actually does genuine love for that club, which it's a very difficult thing to imagine to have love for a club like PSG.

But the way he connects with the fans, by the way, is also quite unique.

In a way, he harks back.

When I say that, he almost harks back to the PSG before Qatar,

if you see what I mean.

But he's, and I don't think he's spoken about enough, as well as being a bloody good central defender, it must be said.

Yeah.

He's

eschewed the bright lights of Paris to focus on his football.

If I'm allowed a minute on that penalty barry oh mike i just

can someone i don't you know like i don't know who to look for i you know arson wenger's not going to change the law because he's too worried about daylight offside which we shouldn't get to because it's an absolutely ridiculous idea but

but how anybody thinks there was actually i saw nos tweeted this out i put it on instagram there's all these arsenal fans at box park wembley and it goes potential penalty check and they're all like yes we've got a penalty because the ball was up the arsenal end and obviously no one had a clue what it was for.

Like no one on the pitch, no one in the stadium, none of the officials, none of the coaches, no fan anywhere in the world.

Was like, we're just like, oh, there's a percentage penalty check.

Could be anywhere.

Could be one of these teams.

Could be a different match.

I don't know.

And that is a, it is a scandal that that is a penalty.

And it's a scandal that people now accept that is a penalty.

We just, we just accept it.

And I just, I know

I'm shouting at you, Barry, and you are very much the cloud and I am the old man.

And I don't know what to do about it.

I don't disagree with you.

Can I say that straight off the bat?

I do not disagree with you.

But if I can play devil's advocate, isn't the whole point of VAR to bring in to correct mistakes that we didn't see?

So the fact that nobody saw it doesn't matter.

And technically, it's a handball.

Now, I think Ashraf Kakimi clocked it and then wasn't sure.

He kind of did a double take and looked at the ref.

And then when the ref didn't do anything, he could just kind of shrugged his shoulders and

ambled away and played on.

I could be wrong.

That's my read on the situation.

So technically it is a penalty, but it shouldn't be a penalty.

And you are right.

I don't think maybe Hakimi noticed.

Presumably Miles Lewis Skelly noticed, but nobody else did.

But isn't that why Varr is there?

If it's why it's there, that's the reason why it should go.

Well, I agree.

I don't like Varr, and I'm not disagreeing with Max.

I'm just being devil's advocate.

No, well, it's very kind of you to add some balance to this, but I don't believe there should be any balance.

Bury balance.

That's what they call me.

Do we think Vetinha took pity with that absolutely dreadful penalty?

Yes, I know.

I have to say, I'm super glad he missed the penalty because if he had scored it, God almighty, can you imagine

the wailing and the gnashing of teeth that would have been uh

oh yeah i'm glad he missed i don't know if you guys saw but when when it when it cut the the referee coming from the the var screen it did kind of look like he was almost doing like an apologetic gesture it was like i've got to give it like i'm sorry i don't want to give it but it is so yeah and he's he's by the way uh mr he's he's a he's a very very fine referee and the refereeing was actually completely i mean almost perfect but what can he do because if he ignores what he's saying,

he's not responsible.

It's the rule.

And it's been quite consistently applied in European games.

I know people are upset about it because it doesn't look like one.

And it made me think about Gigi Buffon against Real Madrid accusing Michael Oliver of having a dustbin for a heart because how heartless to make that be a way that we punish an 18-year-old for something that isn't even a mistake.

But it is the way the rule has been applied.

It is.

And the rule, I agree, I don't like and would be very happy to see it changed.

But you can't have a go at the referee for that.

No, no, no.

I don't blame the referee at all.

I'm just saying, if you've determined to penalise them, make it a free kick.

But don't genuinely don't penalise it.

It's just sometimes the ball hits a hand.

Anyway, I mean, I will do this no doubt again and again and again.

Well, Max, you know, you know, it's this thing that I keep harping about that.

A handball, which is not voluntary, should be indirect free kick.

Mayhem in the area, and we would all love it.

I agree.

I agree.

You touched on this, Barry, earlier, but Chris says, after Arteta changed his tactics to long throws instead of corners, which big man up top should Arsenal now target?

Ian Marshall and Ian Ormondroyd considering coming out of retirement, do you think?

Sunny says, do Arsenal need a throwing coach to get them over the line next season?

Russ, if his name was Michael Arthur and was relying on set pieces and long throws, would he be given so many chances or would he be called a footballing dinosaur?

I mean, I love a long throw.

And it was funny to see Thomas Party trudging from one side to the other.

I don't know, like, from an Arsenal perspective, Nikki, if you were sort of slightly thought, are these tactics are are a bit have arsenal gone a bit one-dimensional or is that is that too harsh yeah it's i it's i think there's lots of things that you're inclined to question i i was agreeing with bazaki you know he's talking about the throw-ins in the first half but at the same time they nearly get a goal from one of those throwings don't they the first one martin they nearly they might just say do something with it so

yeah i i think that

I think that it it felt in the second half to me like Arsenal

felt the need to be more direct.

And so they were looking for those straight balls.

But when those weren't working, it wasn't like there was another plan anymore.

That the first half, obviously, was, I thought, certainly the first 20 minutes pretty effectively approached and had PSG on the back foot.

But the second half, it almost felt like the tactics were desperate because it was just, let's just pump it in there and see if we can get somewhere, which PSG's

defenders were dealing with very well.

But

it was that strategy and then not even accompanied by the kind of urgency that you might have wanted.

I was surprised we didn't see Nanieri.

I think when you're struggling

to get goals and you need goals, then I accept that it would have been nice for there to have been better recruitment designed towards that.

But use the players you've got who've scored some goals.

So the second half,

I didn't feel like the approach felt like it was ever likely going to get somewhere.

Even though, of course, as I said before, there were still chances.

Saka did still score and could have scored again.

I think to be the devil's advocate, which seems to be a role that is going from one to the other in this podcast, the direct approach, first of all, Thomas Party, the long throws.

Every Arsenal fan knows that we are the worst team at throw-ins in the Premier League, be it Tim Burr,

Louis Skelly, Ben White is the worst of the lot.

We are the worst at throw-ins.

So I'm actually applauding

the lapsed reincarnation.

That's absolutely fine.

Second thing, everybody agreed before the game that one of the possible weak points of this PSG was their

problems with dealing with balls in the box and that Donna Ruma,

exceptional as he is, sometimes was short-circuiting

on long balls, was a little bit too eager.

to grab them and that could actually lead to something.

So they tested that.

And then also, as a number nine, you have Mikel Marineau, who is excellent in the air, who, by the way, I thought had a terrific game last night.

Honestly, I thought he did everything he could possibly do.

He did very well.

And he actually won quite a lot of 50-50s in the air.

But the difference is

there were not really many other solutions because out of nowhere, or rather after they had opened the scoring, the PSG midfield rediscovered its ability to press in tight areas.

Wherever you looked at the ball

in the possession of an Arsenal player, you could actually draw a kind of circle, which would be about 10 yards in radius, and you would have five PSG players present there.

I don't know how they do it.

I mean, that's basically down to very, very, very good coaching and very, very good players.

But suddenly the Arsenal didn't have the solutions they had in the first half.

Sometimes Martin Lou DeGard had some space.

Declan Rice could actually race from midfield.

Suddenly these opportunities were not open to them.

And yeah, you have to try your luck at making the game a bit different and playing it long.

So it could have worked.

It didn't work because PSG were too good.

And that's it.

Barry, quite a few questions on Arteta and his position.

Jordan says that despite how good Arsenal were and also up to the semi-final, it's another season without a trophy for Arsenal.

Now five years since their last, considering how people talk about Arteta, should they have one more in that time?

Jelly Jelly Belly says, surely Arteta only has one more year, another trophy of the season.

Club's transfer business in the summer and January was a complete shambles.

Squad is miles away from being good enough, tactically naive.

Third game in a row, leaving a player unmarked on the edge of the box.

I mean, I suppose Ruiz did get away from Martinelli, didn't he?

Mess, he says.

Anyway, Arteta out.

Is that what you're crying for here, Ben?

Well, I don't care who manages Arsenal to be personally, but I found Arteta's comments after the game, where he appeared to suggest that Arsenal were the better better team over two legs, to be completely delusional.

They've lost four semi-finals in a row under him.

They lost two semi-finals this season.

They lost both legs of both those semi-finals.

And you could say they were very comfortably beaten by Newcastle, pretty comfortably beaten by PSG.

They were supposed to challenge for the title this season and take advantage of any potential city slip-ups.

They're currently second 15 points off the pace.

They might not even finish second.

It doesn't really matter whether they finish second, third or fourth.

And I think Arsenal's failure to sign a striker in January borders on negligence, to be honest.

But I don't know how much of that is Artessa's fault.

I don't know if Arsenal's owner cares about winning silverware.

You know, at Manchester United, you're the Glazers.

They don't care about winning trophies.

And it might be the same as Arsenal.

I know it's difficult to sign a striker in January, and they're not growing on trees, but I still maintain that if they'd made a serious offer for someone like

Philippe and Nikki might laugh, Jamie Vardy,

he could have come in and done a job for them.

Despite his age, he's a very good goal scorer.

Leicester, it was obvious they were going down.

They might have taken 10 million for him.

I'd say they'd have snapped anyone's hand off if they'd they'd offered 10 million for them.

Arsenal have definitely improved under Arteta, but they do seem to lack that winning mentality and killer instinct.

I don't know.

I'm aware that I can sometimes be inclined towards sitting in the middle anyway on these things, but I do think there's sometimes a loss of perspective.

Arsenal did just go to a Champions League semi-final for the first time in, I think it's 16 years.

It's not an old squad.

It's not a squad which you you look at and go, oh, that was the one chance

and we're at the end of it.

There is every possibility to take this season

and

build on it.

The second place thing,

I think to talk about the points gap, in my opinion, is a bit false because it's very obvious that Arsenal have taken their foot off the pedal the last few rounds have been trying to concentrate on the Champions League, rightly or wrongly.

And I think that some of those points, it's a bit of an exaggeration.

It is going to come down to whether they recruit properly.

It is going to come down to whether or not they fix those things.

I'm hearing is that certainly Arteta wants to recruit quite aggressively in a couple of positions.

We'll see what comes to pass.

But I do think there is

sometimes what feels to me like the classic social media driven need to make this all or nothing and to make it either terrible or perfect.

And I think it's not for me either of those things.

Whatever about the points gap, Nikki, i would argue you look at arsenal and no matter who they recruit during the summer i think is there any chance of them winning the title next season no i see i disagree with that i do actually right yeah i i think i think i think it depends where your focus is would you have disagreed with me if i'd said the last same thing this time last season well that was impossible that arsenal could win the league this season yeah no i think arsenal absolutely started this season thinking they should be competing for the title i think you can say it's a disappointing league campaign i don't disagree with that I'm not trying to

absorb any criticism either.

I just think that I'm not at the point of baby goes out with the bathwater because they have failed to push Liverpool as hard as I think we all think they could have done.

Doesn't to me mean, and now suddenly the whole project is gone.

I don't think that's the case, and I expect they'll be competitive in the league next season, personally.

Several things.

First of all, the complete lack of recruitment.

If you want to put the responsibility at somebody's door, it's not Mikel Arteta's.

Let's not forget that Edu, who was the man in charge of this, left the club.

And that suddenly at the moment where they would have needed his contacts, his know-how,

you know, his negotiating skills, he was no longer there to turn to.

That's the first thing.

Second thing, if Mikel Arteta should be shown the door for finishing second or third or fourth or fifth or whatever, and semi-finalist of the Champions League, every single manager beneath him should also be asked the same question, which is absurd.

He has his shortcomings.

And the question for me is more, he has his qualities, he's got great qualities.

And one of his great qualities, by the way, is that obviously his players are buying into what he's selling them.

Definitely.

Now, he has shortcomings.

He's a man of system.

He can be,

I think...

He can be, yes, one-eyed.

His comments about being the best team over the two sides, to be honest, many managers would actually say the same rubbish.

But he's too systematic.

He doesn't rotate his squad enough.

Even in the in-game management, I find him extremely rigid.

It's quite extraordinary that you have players like Martinelli and Saka who never, for example, permutate in a game.

That is insane when you think about it.

And you could go on like that.

He's got many short comics.

But on the other hand...

He's brought Arsenal back in the Champions League.

They've reached a semi-final, which they lost against an exceptional PSG team, which is the best PSG team in history, probably.

They don't have to blush about the circumstances of their exit.

And when it comes to the league, well, if Arsenal have had a terrible season, what can you say about the others?

I mean, man,

you know, Mareska, bye-bye.

Guardiola, bye-bye.

Anyway, they'll be in the championship next year, won't they?

You know, all these things.

You can say, again,

he's not perfect, but he's certainly a very fine manager.

And it's the question whether the shortcomings that he has is big enough to realize to have some self-criticism and to have people around him who tell him, by the way, maybe you could have done things differently.

And if he can grow with that, then he's absolutely fine.

So yes, of course, keep him.

I think the difficult thing is that the manager, you know, with their direct rivals, has no shortcomings.

And when Tottenham win the Europa League and then the Champions League next year and the title,

anyway.

Part two,

we'll ask Nikki about Inter.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Look, Nikki, we obviously spoke at length about Interbasa yesterday, but you know, you must have some thoughts because what I mean and like and why not talk about this game again and again?

It was absolutely unbelievable.

And like, it was interesting when you said, like, Arsenal aren't young.

You know, they could develop.

And I was thinking, God, like, if you compare it to Inter, that Arsenal team got like 35 years before they get to this, you know, inter level.

They were, it was an amazing game, wasn't it?

Yeah, I feel like, look, the inter Arsenal thing is interesting because Inter went to that final two years ago and there was a lot of talk at the time they went to that final of, and that was their one chance.

And that's it.

They blew it.

They're not going to get back there again anytime soon, are they?

And here they are two years later.

And listening to Arteta and his post-match comments, listen, I think there's some things it's very easy to roll your eyes at with Arteta and I think that's slightly just how he is sometimes.

He's got that way of being very

one-eyed, I'd say, and that can cause you to roll your eyes.

But also trying to tell everyone that his team had been great and they should feel good.

I understand

wanting to reinforce the positive parts of an experience.

And I think that something that Inter have done so, so well is take lessons from two years ago and not allow it to be a case that it was a one-off story and tell themselves they could get back, tell themselves, look, we were good enough to be here, we've learned some lessons, and we're going to do it.

They've been extraordinary in this competition.

I think

I'm going to say

this is a stat that was said to me while we were recording my say last night, and I haven't gone back and double-checked it, but I believe it's correct that Intear have only been behind in this entire competition for a total of nine minutes.

That's how rarely they've been behind, which is extraordinary when you think they did concede quite a lot lot of goals between the quarterfinal and semi-final, but they were always in positions of having gone ahead first.

So other than that last one, that put Barcelona 3-2 up briefly at San Cedar.

So they have been absolutely, I think, one of the two best teams this competition.

I think we have got the two best teams this competition going into the final.

If anything, I would argue that INTA have been the better team through the whole competition because PSG started slowly, right?

PSG started a little bit.

So I think PSG have probably been the better team in 2025 and that might be all that matters because the final is in 2025 so it's uh it's not as

a case of me saying that oh inter should win they're the the best team now but I do think Inter's run through this tournament deserves all of the praise it's getting and then some because they have done absolutely everything that's been asked of them including playing a couple of Premier League teams in the group including playing Bayer Munich, including playing Barcelona.

They have been really, really resilient, sometimes chaotic, but always with the answers when they've needed them.

What was the moment for you yesterday?

If you could, I mean, the Serbi moment surely is just amazing, right?

Yeah, of course.

I think that that goal is just so ridiculous in absolutely every way because what's he doing there?

He's not supposed to be there.

He's a centre-back.

He's 37 years old.

It's 182nd minute of the tie.

It's 6'5.

And his finish,

which he hasn't scored at all in more than 60 European games, is on his weaker foot, by the way.

That's not his strong foot, his right foot.

And it's a really good finish.

It's right into the top corner first time.

It's everything about it doesn't make any sense.

But as I wrote yesterday, it makes sense because Inter's shtick, Inter's

sense of self has always been about being padza inte, the crazy club.

And even I think within Italy, there's just such a

maybe it's overplayed, but there's this natural contrast you want to draw between Juventus who hammer the winning isn't an important thing, it's the only thing that counts, which is the famous Boniberti line that became

their club's motto.

Whereas Inter

Javier Zanetti, I think his book was titled Vincere Manon Solo, which is winning, but that's not the only thing.

And I think that Inter, this Inter really embodies some of that real inter-spirit and a cherbi, possibly, most of all.

I wanted to ask Nikki about the name of Lotaros Fizio, because that's extraordinary.

Lazarus Martinez.

I mean, how is that possible?

I can't comment on

the name, but it is a great name.

It is absolutely extraordinary to see him.

But the other thing I was to ask you, Nikki, is, is there any chance with what they've done this season, being in the you know, Champions League final, that

perhaps, just perhaps, the level of antagonism and sometimes worse than that towards Inter might subside a little bit in Italy or are they just as detested as ever?

I think Italian football will always have its internal hatreds which are very strong and I think there will be plenty of Italian football fans who are not cheering for them in this final.

There may be some

conflict philosophy for Italy because Donaruma peculiarly I always think is one of these oddly unpopular players.

Not odd in some specific fan basis cases.

Obviously, Milan felt aggrieved about how he let Mino Raiola steer him towards money rather than to becoming the club legend that they wanted him to be.

And there was the whole Dolaruma thing.

But I do think Donaruma, for a keeper, who was literally the player of the tournament when Italy won the Euros, it is odd how his position in Italian culture is much more someone who gets ridiculed for making blunders sometimes than it is someone who gets celebrated as an extraordinary goalkeeper.

So, yes, what the exact leadings of everyone will be for the final, I don't know.

Um, but I don't think uh I don't think you're going to

rip out centuries of company leaves anytime soon.

I think everyone's still going to cheer for who they cheer for and hate who they hate.

We're not going to preview the Europa League or the Conference League because we're going to do a special after the games.

Quite sometimes a good time to do them.

Man United, three up against Athletic Bill Bau.

Spurs go to to Bodo, three-one.

No Madison, no Bergval.

Fixtures moved already.

Utter panic amongst Tottenham fans.

Chelsea 4-1 up on Gurgarden in the Conference League.

Let's talk about the Club World Cup and the World Cup.

We haven't done a whole lot on this, Philippe.

Mexican club Leon finally lost their legal match against FIFA on Tuesday.

It wasn't a game, their legal match against FIFA's lawyers.

They lost 2-1 after extra time.

They're officially out of the Club World Cup.

So then, MLS side, Los Angeles FC

or another Mexican team, Club America, will likely be the late replacement in the US next month after a yet-to-be-scheduled one-off playoff.

I was trying to work out, Philip, is this just a play-off invented out of the sky?

Like, you know, it just could be, are we going to do Freiburg versus Ipswich Town to see who the last team to get in is?

Or is there a reason why these things are Tottenham against Bodocliffs?

Yeah, they would.

Why not?

Well, no, it was expected there would be some kind of playoff, but it must be said that the the regulations around this Club World Cup have sometimes flabbergasted people who looked at it.

Like, you will remember that Inter Miami

got their ticket for the competition despite the fact that they didn't win the competition that really designates the actual best USA team.

But there you go, MLS team.

In this particular case, what happened was that

Club Leon and Club Pachuca

are part of the same group of clubs.

They're owned by Gurupo Pachuca.

And in this case, which of course

is a problem, but is a problem that everybody knew would happen from a long, long time ago, because everybody knew they're not exactly hiding the ownership of the clubs.

We knew that two of the clubs taking part in the Club World Cup would

actually belong to the same people, and that was in contravention of the statutes of the competition.

But instead of that, FIFA just carried on, the draw was made.

And it's only after the draw was made, and then a recourse was put at the Court of Arbitration for Sport by a club called Liga Deportivo

a la Juelense, which is a Costa Rican club, who said, hey, come on, guys, we can't have two teams

competing in the same competition.

And you know what?

They're right.

So how do you extricate yourself from the situation if you're FIFA?

You decide on a playoff, you take out, you know, Club Leon, and then you go to LAFC, which is the team of Hugo Oris and Olivier Giroux, who is actually rubbish there, I'm sorry to say, basically, because they were the runners-up to Club Leon in the CONCACAF Champions Cup in 2023.

So that's clear enough.

Right, okay.

And then Club América, which is another extraordinary popular Liga IMX club, so Mexican club, were the highest ranking team in the FIFA Club World Cup Confederation at the conclusion of the 2024 CONCACAF Champions Cup.

That's a little bit long-winded and so forth, but basically they are two of the best teams.

And even though the regulations which are invoked to bring those people together are confusing, to say the least, it kind of makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is that we're the 8th of May.

The competition is starting next month.

And we haven't got a clue when the playoff is going to take place.

And it's absolutely extraordinary when we had always known there would be a problem.

But that's FIFA for you.

Donald Trump convened the first meeting of his administration's 2026 World Cup task force on Tuesday, flanked by Gianni Infantino and J.D.

Vance.

It's headed by Andrew Giuliani, part of the Giuliani US political dynasty, if it's a dynasty.

America will welcome the world.

America will welcome the world, said Infantino.

Everybody who wants to come here to enjoy, to have fun, to celebrate the game will be able to do that.

And then J.D.

Vance said, we want them to come, we want them to celebrate, we want them to watch the game, but when time is up, they have to go home.

As always, any great party.

It's actually how I would invite people around, to be fair.

Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy

said that most inner-city transportation issues would be solved with buses and that no long-lasting transit projects would remain as a result of hosting the tournament.

Sounds a lot like they're planning to deal with the two million predicted visitors by laying on a few buses, a replacement bus service across the states.

That task force.

So Trump is the chairman.

J.D.

Vance is the vice chair.

And as you say, Giuliani Jr.

is the executive director.

So he'll be doing all the work and in charge of everything.

And his sole qualification for the role seems to be that he's quite good at golf.

Yeah, and plays with Trump occasionally.

And Trump has said it will be the bigliest, safeliest, most extraordinary soccer tournament in history.

We'll create 50 billion in economic output.

I'm not sure what that means exactly.

And almost 300,000 jobs.

I'm at Philippe, do you know?

So, usually, when the World Cup goes to a country,

they don't have to pay tax.

They make up all these laws so that they get all the money.

Is that they're not going to get away with that in the States, are they?

Well,

yes, that's

because when the United States bid for the World Cup, they were fully aware of the regulations in place.

And the fact that the FIFA traveling circus moves into town, it's almost like

another country moving in and which has got its own tax status and so forth.

And every time this has happened in the past that it's been discussed, I mean, it's basically a no-no from FIFA because it is the number one

income generator for FIFA

and they want all of the cash.

But those claims are made for every single competition.

It's absolutely ludicrous.

And of course the jobs that will be created, the 300,000 jobs might be jobs for the duration of the tournament which will disappear once the circus has moved out of town.

Also you will remark that at no point

do any of these people mention the fact that there will be actually quite a few games playing in Canada and Mexico, which is quite hilarious.

And as for the income generated by that, I would imagine that it's not income, it's more

what is a projection of the amount of money that people, the visitors, are going to spend when they go to America before being deported to El Salvador.

So

those figures are plugged out of the sky, make no sense, but we're used to that.

And by the way,

for Giuliani Jr.,

it's not that he played a little bit of golf with Trump.

He actually played,

he was Trump's number one partner when he was already in the first administration because he was part of the first administration as a special advisor.

And they would actually sometimes the two of them travel to Mar-a-Lago to play, you know, a round or two or three at Trump's golf course.

So he's the number one golfer, which makes him obviously in the Trump administration imminently qualified for such a job.

And it's probably worth mentioning, Baz, isn't it, that Trump wasn't aware of everything that was going on within the world of football?

Yes, he was unaware that Russia are currently banned from participating in the World Cup and seemed quite interested when it was confirmed for him.

So

he might make moves to try and get them in, even though qualification has started.

Anyway, that'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll look ahead to the Premier League weekend.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable's is the leader in the paper tablet category digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper but with the power of modern technology but there's something new and exciting the remarkable paper pro move remarkable a brand name and an adjective man yeah it's their most portable paper tablet yet it holds all your notes to-dos and documents but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist, man.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So, look at the race for fifth place.

Man City go to Southampton.

They should win that.

Forrester home to Leicester.

They should win that.

Newcastle home to Chelsea.

This is the big one, isn't it, Baz?

Win that, and you're basically there.

Win that, and you're basically there.

And draw it, and you're not basically there, but you're considerably more there than you would have been if you lose.

Because

Chelsea and Newcastle both have a much better goal difference than Forrester Villa

considerably better so that's worth the point to them as well you could say but yeah it is a big game because if either of them lose it could have disastrous consequences I'm not suggesting for a minute they're going to go and play for draw I'm not even being sarcastic when I say I'm not suggesting for a minute yeah but a draw would not be the worst result for either side certainly the next disgrace of Hejong, isn't it?

That's what's going to happen.

Where I'm looking, that game is at Newcastle.

You'd have to fancy them at home, wouldn't you?

I think.

Totally.

Totally.

Villa go to Bournemouth.

They're on 60 points.

They're three points behind.

So looking tricky for them.

Bournemouth in the race for eighth, which is very tight.

Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton, and Fulham.

Just two points separating them.

Fulham home to Everton.

Brighton go to Wolves.

Brentford go to Ipswich.

Liverpool Arsenal, I guess, is one of the least interesting first v seconds for a long, long time, isn't it?

Can't see what Sky goes.

Title decider.

Can I ask, by the way, why is the Newcastle Chelsea game on at noon on Sunday?

I don't know.

I know it means we have a day off, Max, but apart from that,

yeah, just to test the Chelsea fans.

That ideally would be the 4:30 one, I suppose.

It's an early start, isn't it, for your Chelsea fans to get up there for midday?

Philippe, you wanted a quick mention of Paris FC promoted to Ligue In for the first time in almost half a century?

Well, I mean, that's

for the first time since 1990, there will be two teams from Paris in Ligue Ains.

If there is still a Ligue In, if we haven't gone bankrupt yet,

if we have found a broadcaster, which is not obvious, but Paris FC,

which has got some big means behind behind them like uh the arnaud the billionaire uh is one of them um is that his is that his is that his name arnaud the billionaire

actually that would be that's a great name isn't it that's a sounds a bit like a a viz comic doesn't it character

and uh

and uh so yeah in 1990 you might remember or you might not remember but you might have heard of matrasing which was this kind of artificial club which had been created by by Lagardère with players like Luis Fernandez and Enzo Francescolli, which died a death, basically.

But this is the first time, yeah, PSG are going to have almost on their doorstep a club that

will represent Paris,

which is

actually Paris' historical club with Racing.

And that actually has made me think if they if they make,

because you might have heard that PSG want to leave the Parc des Prince.

I mean, mean, they're absolutely mad.

They're absolutely mad, but they want to leave the Parc des Prince.

And they want to build a new stadium about 30 kilometers away from the capital.

Oh, don't do that.

Maybe we'll talk about this.

It's another pad, another pod.

But Parisi plays in Paris.

Paris FC is Paris.

So it's going to be absolutely fascinating.

For the first time ever, when you think about any other European capital, they've got tons of clubs.

We only have one, but now we have two, and it's Parisi.

Let's finish with an email from Luke who says uh hi max barry and the football weekly posse if you're happy to be in a posse nikki and philippe uh long time list a second time email here second time you may or may not remember the first time when i asked barry for his well-wishes in advance of marrying kamini uh pronounced like carmeni carmini there you are last year and he was clear our guests would be put out at being invited to a two-day wedding during the euros it made our day fast forward to this year and we welcomed baby milo into the world on the 19th of april and i come to you once again cap in hand asking for any words of wisdom and or begrudging well wishes as we start this new chapter together football weekly continues to provide light relief entertainment and hot takes as we navigate through the lack of sleep and routine of feeds and changes thank you all and keep up the good work luke uh barry do you have any uh

begrudging well wishes for uh luke and carminy and young milo well i i i thought this was going to be our first ever oh thanks for the well wishes but sadly we've got divorced

Oh, yeah, please, please, if you if you are one of those, if we have wished you well and and things have

on pair shapely, we'd like to, you know, yeah, like all human life, all life happens, no one's to blame, but we'd like to know about it.

Yeah, um, no, are they still going strong?

Well, clearly so.

Um, and the arrival of Milo will uh undoubtedly test their mettle.

I know, Max, that uh, having children has been a source of total unbridled joy for you.

It's a piece of piss, Barry.

That's what it is.

My advice, Luke and Camino, is

to do the polar opposite of Max and don't behave as if having you were the first person in the history of the planet to sire offspring or to breed.

People aren't that interested.

in your child, particularly when it can't speak and

ruins your social life and they're by extension, the social life of your friends.

So yeah, just be nice to Milo.

I hope bring him up well, but don't bore everyone to tears with, oh, look, he smiled.

Oh, he took a step.

No one cares.

Thanks, Barry.

All right.

Well, that'll do it for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Nikki.

Thanks.

Thanks, Philippe.

Thank you, Max.

Thanks, Baz.

Would you like me to send you some more photos?

Yeah, please.

Ian and Willie together.

Yeah, we'll do.

I'll inundate you.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Bill Maynard.

We'll be back tomorrow for our Europa League, Europa Conference League.

This is The Guardian.