Liverpool go 15 points clear as Manchester United hold Arsenal: Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, the race for fifth place or the race for third or even second place.

Nottingham Forest with a huge win over Manchester City.

Gibbs White fizzed past to Hudson Adoy was a joy.

Nuno's smile is getting wider and wider.

At Old Trafford, Manchester United might have been the better side in a football match.

Extraordinary.

A draw with Arsenal for whom David Rayer made some great saves.

We'll cover the protests off the pitch as well.

So Liverpool are now 15 points clear at the top after coming from behind to beat Southampton.

Elsewhere, Bournemouth somehow failed to win at Spurs despite dominating.

Cole Palmer stutters, but Chelsea still win.

And there's a huge win for Brighton over Fulham.

Hopefully there's enough time to talk about Adam Wharton's left foot.

Remember Wolves Everton.

Answer your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hi, Max.

And Noradine Chowdhury, hello.

Hello.

And welcome, Johnny Lou.

Hi.

Let's start.

At the city ground then, Nottingham Forest won Manchester City 0.

I mean, this was such, it wasn't a brilliant game, I didn't think, Johnny, but...

Just such an amazing moment when, I mean, the goal with the pass from Gibbs White was wonderful, but that moment and that city ground just erupting was brilliant.

Yeah, that was possibly the moment of the weekend, to be honest.

The pass, it's just one of those where you want to watch a YouTube video title, something like Gibbs White pass from every possible angle.

Maybe, maybe set to music, just the trajectory, the swerve.

And then, yeah, I mean, he's got options.

He's got options in the centre, isn't he?

But he just.

like Adsonura just decides to go himself.

Can Edison do a little bit better at his his near post there?

Not sure.

It's one of those moments where I think

everyone there just thinks, this is on, isn't it?

This is actually going to happen.

It's not, you know, obviously we're not talking Leicester levels, but just the sense that this is a giddy ride that is just not

going to run out of steam anytime soon.

I don't think we,

as a society,

as a sports, as a podcast, are remotely ready for the outpouring of content and

nauseating saccharin that is going to accompany Nottingham Forest in the Champions League.

There's going to be retrospectives.

There's going to be interviews.

There's going to be lots of plucky little underdog tales,

which given the amount of money they spent

might be worth unpacking a little bit.

But it's coming.

It's coming.

Yeah, I mean, I must admit,

I see myself on the cynical side of football journalism, but I think I'm ready for a bit of saccharine nostalgia from Nottingham Forest talking about old european cups bows i don't know about you oh yeah i mean there was probably a lot of football fans who aren't aware that they won two european cups they're shy about it they don't like

and i mean we have already had the saccharine sweet golf uh when they got promoted so you know in a way we know what's coming and it's fine because i i quite partial to a bit of Nottingham Forest.

I was always a big Brian Clough fan.

They're certainly not going away.

I didn't think they'd win this game, if I'm honest.

But I think they were worthy winners.

The first half was pretty dull and uneventful.

And then Ederson was called upon to make a brilliant save from

Callum Hudson Adoy, and then didn't make a brilliant save from Callum Hudson-Adoy.

I think he's been hung out to dry a little bit because the shot did take a bit of a nick off Cvarliol, which I think bamboozled him slightly.

But this was a great, brilliant performance by Forrest

with its foundations in yet another really good defensive display by Olaina, Morello, Milenkovich, and Nico Williams.

Who have,

apart from the odd exception, been brilliant this season, you know what you're going to get from Forrest,

but very few teams seem able to stop what they know is coming.

And

that pass from Gibbs White was, you know, I can only agree, was fantastic.

The speed of it, the precision, and apparently it's something he and

Callum Hudson Adoy had planned in advance.

So

fair play to them.

It's interesting that point, Norse, from Baz saying, you know what's coming, but they can't stop it.

Because there are other football teams in the Premier League where you know what's coming, and that is a problem because you know what's coming.

And, you know, we'll get to Manchester United and Tottenham and the teams we talk about a lot with that.

But

that's actually amazing.

What Nuno has managed to create there is, and he looks so happy now.

You know, he's gone on a narrative arc on this part from dying Jedi to now the sort of happiest man on earth.

But like

it's hard to underestimate how much credit you should give to him.

Oh, completely.

And but it's that thing of it's not enough just to have like a like a

low block and aim to be a counter-attacking team.

Like loads of teams want to do that.

Loads of teams that come up want to do that.

Ten Haag was massive on sort of he continually said, uh, oh, we've not got the right players to play actual football, so what we'll do is we'll become the best transitional team in the world, uh, which is kind of it kind of feels like that's what forests have become.

It's uh, it's it's that thing of being of being incredibly solid, but then having proper quality that can take full advantage.

So, uh, they're one of those teams you kind of, you kind of, you kind of think of certain teams as being enjoyable to watch.

I think, I think forests are actually actually fun to watch for different reasons.

But yeah,

I was also slightly disappointed

that there was

a Robin Hood reference at the end of the match of the day, and it sort of goes back to what Jonathan was saying about montages and stuff.

Like, we need to move on.

There's other things to celebrate about Nottingham, like in these montages.

So I'd like, if anything, I'd like that to sort of be thought about a bit more.

Cause like you've got Shane Meadows.

and you're out

isn't lad baby from nottingham there's about there's about six football journalists six prominent football journalists from from nottingham who's who who's the number one nick miller i don't know it's it's just one of those weird quirks ali martin uh guardians cricket correspond he's also a big forest fan i it's just one of those weird quirks like

for for some reason there's a load of cricket journalists from northampton like loads of Northampton's fans in there in the press box and and Forrest are that team in the um that punch above their weights in journalistic terms.

I mean, that is Forrest's first league win over City since 97.

The result guarantees City will finish below 80 points for the first time since 2016-17.

Guadiola is now in sort of every game is a final territory.

We have 10 games to qualify.

We have to win games to qualify, and we have to move on to the next one.

I mean, you you still like in the same way that I think a lot of people sense that Forrest would drop away, even perhaps before this weekend, and that might have changed their minds.

There is a sense, Johnny, that City will just about get into this top five.

Do you share that?

Yeah, and obviously it is almost certainly going to be a top five.

And yeah, I think there was basically the assumption, especially when, you know,

they've been looking like in the last month or so that they're over the worst of it.

They're over this kind of horror phase where people were just running straight through them and

they didn't seem to have a clue what to do about it.

They got a little bit of...

a little bit of solidity to them.

They brought in Mamouche.

They brought in Kushinov.

And,

they just looked like they turned the corner a little bit.

And I think what's become increasingly clear, what was certainly clear on Saturday, is that

there are still quite fundamental issues with this team to the point where we're already thinking, we're looking towards the summer as a sort of a real transitional moment for them.

It's whether Guardiola can build this new team.

I don't think there's a huge amount of jeopardy left in the rest of their season.

I still think they'll qualify fairly comfortably for the top five.

I still think they'll canter to the FA Cup,

given

the teams remaining in the draw.

So there isn't actually a huge amount riding on the rest of this season,

and that's why I think it's already beginning to feel like a really big summer for them.

Yeah, unless, of course, they start to slip away, Bas.

I mean, and it is not inconceivable because

they are fifth, 47 points, but it's incredibly tight going down to probably 10th position and Fulham on 42.

But that was their ninth defeat of the season.

I wouldn't necessarily share Johnny's view that they'll counter to the FA Cup.

And I think there is quite a bit of jeopardy because

there are some very good teams below them who are knocking on the door and ready to pounce if City do slip up.

And all available evidence kind of suggests City will slip up as they did here.

They never really looked like...

winning this game.

They

only had, I think, one decent chance covered just shot

after he pounced on a poor clearance from morgan gibbs white uh i'm struggling to think of any others so yeah i don't think it's a foregone conclusion at all that they're finishing the top five and thomas tukel's announcing his squad this week not

wonder how close hudson are doing apparently there's like a 55

long list could you can get a 55 people on a bus i think quite easily but but um

do you think gibbs white and hudson are doy they they must be close mustn't they yeah you'd you'd you'd hope so um it's so it's so interesting to see what um to hold's sort of strategy will be with a team because it could be because like you you you do you do get certain players who just feel like automatic sort of scribbles into the into the list but um it'd be great if it if if he'd uh if he'd broaden his horizons a little bit i mean i mean i mean one one sort of aspect of that in this game is like i i i kind of wonder what's happened to philfoden in terms of sort of like being that automatic start for England, but also City.

When I think of Cita,

especially when they're at their best, I think of these really skillful number 10-style players like David Silver and Bernardo Silver in his prime, and obviously Boden.

But in that team, you had Doku Foden and Bernardo Silver, who in theory, and Silvinho, who in theory can go past players and beat a man.

But there doesn't seem to be any of that spark.

And Foden in particular, I kind of wonder, is he just having a bad season or is it a bit more of a concern?

Because he doesn't seem the same player he was.

There was a minute's applause for Stuart Pierce, who suffered a medical emergency last week while on a flight back from Vegas.

They had to land the plane in Canada.

Sam Matterface on Talksport said, I spoke to him yesterday.

He was in great spirits.

He's not 100%, but he's in the right place in hospital.

They're dealing with it.

He's disappointed about not being at the game.

He was due to be co-comms.

He said to me, I've got so much I've had to cancel, great games.

And Mumford and Sons are playing next Wednesday night, and I can't go.

He comes on the Saturday show I do on Talk Sport pretty much whenever he's co-cons

and he's such a great guy and we sort of get through the football as quick as we can and we're like what's the last gig you went to and he's always going to some you know punk gig with some you know some all over the country like it's sort of he's he's a really interesting guy and he's great value on air and uh obviously loved by so many people so we all wish him well i i was shocked to learn he was planning on going to Mumford and Sons.

I did not think they would be his bag at all.

No, but

he's quite open-minded.

You know, he's not the music snob that, you know, often appears on this podcast.

Like, he's, he's open-minded.

His roots are in punk, that's for sure.

But, you know, he can go to the odd musical.

Arguably too open-minded.

Let's go to Old Trafford.

Magistrate won, Arsenal won.

Terrible first half, better second half.

Nos, you were there.

We'll get to the protest in a bit, but on the pitch, what did you make of it?

I thought it was surprisingly competitive uh i i thought united might get a little bit trounced especially when i saw the midfield and i saw casemiro but he's had two competent competent games in a row which is which is amazing um

i think it i think it was interesting that um amarim essentially apologized afterwards for uh for playing a a low block and i kind of i kind of get that but um i think i think what the game showed if anything i mean it didn't show much about united because that's not how united want to play play, but I think it perhaps showed that Amarim, for all these talk about him being stubborn and sticking to the formation, it showed that he can be practical and he can sort of do what needs to be done.

Because I think the biggest thing with him isn't so much the formation.

People are going about the formation, but I don't think that's the big thing that

United's players are getting used to.

I think it's more the fact that

he doesn't want to go for these risky long passes that Bruno's so good at and the club has always last few last few years the club has always depended on these counter-attacks.

He wants to play slowly, he wants to play out and he wants to take less risk.

And that's, I think United have struggled in that respect because they've not got the players to do that and they've also not got the players who are used to doing that.

But this game, they kind of went against what Amarim would like to do.

And I think that, if anything, that showed that he's not quite as stubborn as people think.

But no,

it was an entertaining game.

United probably should have won, apart from an amazing performance by

the goalkeeper.

Yeah, he was brilliant, David Rayer, wasn't he, Baz?

I mean, the free kick may be questionable.

Obviously, there was the huge controversy over the 11-yard wall, and it's a great free kick from Bruno.

But after that, the save from Mazrow is very instinctive.

And the winning injury time as well, so good from Rayer.

Yeah, I think he probably was at fault for the goal, and obviously, the wall was 11.2

meters max.

Got it.

Let's get this right.

But he pulled off a couple of sensational saves.

That

double save from Bruno, where the ball looked like it was going to be spinning in anyway, or else

Hoyland, I think.

Hoyland, coming in.

Who was following up?

Hoyland was following up.

Yeah,

he might have headed that over the bar.

Superb from Raya.

I think Manchester United probably should have won.

And it was...

It was an odd game insofar as it was fairly inconsequential for both teams.

But if either of of them lost, you felt a lot would have been read into it.

Because anytime Arsenal lose a game, their fans read often far too much into it.

And if United lost, it would have been another example of their plunge into crisis.

But I think we saw that some of Amarim's ideas and his philosophy are beginning to

be

absorbed by Esmosis, by his players.

The Dallow Dallo crossed to Masrai.

That was another great save from Raya.

And

yeah, I think in recent games we're starting to see flickers of something from Manchester United.

And I think they will be disappointed they didn't win that game.

Three without a win for Arsenal, Johnny.

What did you make of their performance?

And their, you know, obviously they'd had a brilliant win against PSV,

but this looked more like that, you know, struggling to create openings Arsenal that we've seen in the Premier League recently yeah and I mean you talked about predictability right and apart from the fact that they're playing a central midfielder up front you kind of apart from that you we all sort of know what we're getting from Arsenal

I thought I thought they they actually they showed quite a lot of character I mean it's very easily a game they could have lost

like I think Declan Rice makes a makes a brilliant challenge quite late.

There's an amazing tackle and obviously has to celebrate it because you have to celebrate a tackle these days.

And also, like, I do hold them, I do hold Arsenal kind of responsible for the whole wall fiasco because as I, I mean,

as a professional footballer, you should know what 10 yards feels like, right?

I don't understand if they think the wall's too far back, why they're not shuffling forward or complaining about it.

As a wall, you should be shuffling and

as a free kick take, you should be trying to move the ball back.

That's just how it works.

That's how, you know, know, you should be trying to gain an edge there.

That's the only way it's ever going to work.

Because I think, you know, a lot of the bleating about this is

obviously feeds into all the conspiracy stuff.

I know, like Barry's basically spent the entire week arguing with Arsenal fans on Blue Sky about referees.

So we don't want to open all that up again.

But yeah, I think, I think...

I think, doesn't Anthony Taylor hold some responsibility for marketing the back 11 yards?

I can see what you mean.

And to be fair, I think a couple of them did complain.

Yeah, well, you know, you should be shuffling.

Because the alternative, I think what we don't want is this kind of technocratic hellscape where every single thing is going to be measured out and endlessly litigated and argued, where every like throw-in has to be, the worst refereeing intervention is where the ref sends a throw-in, but it has to be retaken.

We don't want any of that.

Sort it out in the pitch.

It's the only way this is ever going to work.

I love the idea of now Anthony Taylor being really paranoid about his his stride,

about his gait, sort of like just wondering,

is this too long?

He'll have one of those, he'll bring out one of those wheels

I did find it slightly strange the way that Sky were really trying to push that sort of

where the wall was.

it kind of they noticed obviously and it was a valid point but even like speaking to Declan Rice afterward it was almost as if the the the report was trying to goad him into saying it and like you said oh what do you think about the the wall and like declan rice was like yeah yeah we should have jumped really should have jumped and he was like was there anything else and he's like yeah yeah we should

it's like what about being far away and then and then it finally sort of like the penny dropped with declan rice and he was like yeah yeah we did actually think that and it was like did you

it was he was just

but

just just on declan rice um one thing that i found a little bit strange on social media is

there was no there was no criticism of him celebrating that tackle but there was criticism of him celebrating his goal almost as if like he celebrated it too much because it didn't matter because

right, because uh Arsenal are X amount of points away from Liverpool, so which I found that a little bit strange, yeah.

Celebration police, I mean, they are at Arsenal, it was a brilliant finish from Bryce, actually, wasn't he?

I mean, he caught it absolutely perfectly.

Um, off the pitch, Cobby Mainu will unwind with an exclusive in the paper saying uh, he's considering rejecting the offer of a new contract, seeking a move abroad.

He's valued about 70 million.

And before the game, thousands of Manchester United fans protested at the club's ownership.

Chris Hames of the 1958 group that organised the protest said Jim Ratcliffe's being tainted by his association with the Glazer family.

So Jim has to make some tough decisions, but he seems to be a shield for the Glazers at the moment.

It seems to be a real issue.

He had one chance to make a good impression.

I'm not sure that's what he has done.

This has nothing to do with the football, and it hasn't been for 20 years.

The way the Glazers bought the club has been a burden on our backs for 20 years.

Jim Ratcliffe has been making people redundant.

But United also paid £37 million to the Glazer debt.

The solution is the Glazers leave the club.

Jim Ratcliffe will never seal his legacy at the club unless he removes the Glazers.

It's as simple as that.

Norse, do you go with that?

Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent,

I am glad that the focus was on the Glazers because getting the Glazers out is absolutely imperative, and that should be the thing that people focus on.

And if there's too many sort of requests or there's too many sort of strands of a protest, I think that's when it can lose its power.

But

it's a strange situation because,

obviously, the very fact that, as a minority shareholder, Ineos and Ratcliffe are pumping their own money in, but also making plans about a new stadium and going beyond the remit of

their sort of sporting sort of aspect of it, of what they're meant to control, suggests that they don't want to be a minority shareholder forever.

But because of the rules of like the stock exchange and

all that, that,

first of all,

they can't really criticise the Glazers because they are in partnership with the Glazers and they want the Glazers to sell to them.

And second of all, if the plan is

to have a full takeover, they can't really say that at the moment.

And I think that's what the fans would love to hear.

And that's what 9058 and all these organisations would love to hear: is that there is a plan.

We're going to get the Glazers out.

This is how we're going to do it.

But they can't actually say that yet.

So

reading between lines, you'd assume that that's definitely what Enios want to do, but they just can't say it.

All right, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin at the Tunnel Huntspower Stadium.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

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But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable paper pro move.

remarkable a brand name and an adjective man yeah it's their most portable paper tablet yet it holds all your notes to-dos and documents but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist barry although not like you

a proper football journalist man exactly too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out this paper tablet doesn't It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Spurs 2, Bournemouth 2.

Johnny, how on earth did Bournemouth not win this?

I have no idea.

I have no idea at all.

I mean, right from the start, it all kind of hit it.

Amazing.

Literally, I think Romero's gives it away with almost his first touch.

Evan Nielsen has a shot.

And then, I think it's Basuma gives it away.

Cliver has a shot.

And then, yeah, I mean, for

like 60 minutes, Spurs just look haunted.

They're just like poor haunted boys who have gone to the front line in 1918, like

seen horrors.

All their friends are dead.

And the ones that haven't, you know, that aren't dead are just kind of gone mad, walking around

in a sort of daze.

And, you know,

they've basically forgotten how to pass the ball at this point.

Bournemouth incredible.

You know, I think we've talked about Bournemouth on this pod so, you know, so often Evan Nielsen comes in and scores.

You know, Kirkz is incredible.

And yeah, I think Rayota talked afterwards about how they just

had the chances to kill the game off.

And

just they needed to be a little bit more clinical.

And that's how Bournemouth

are going to progress to the next level.

Being able to recognise when games are there for the taking and that's the sort of thing that comes with experience I guess and just playing more at this level.

But yeah, Spurs did kind of kind of nick that at the end.

I think Son was quite smart to win that penalty.

I think it was very smartly won penalty.

He basically

almost kind of stops and induces the contact from Kepa.

And then, you know,

it's just not Kepa's day, is it?

I think Saar means it.

I think Saar has a little look and goes, that's Kepa, isn't it?

I've watched a lot of Pap Sarr this season.

I just don't think.

I don't think so.

I'm not sure.

I mean, Christian Romero has been out for so long, Barry, that everyone started to think he was Franco Beresi.

And it did look like this might be the first ever game of pitch that he ever played for five minutes.

Yeah, he had a shocking start.

I think he was culpable for the first two chances that Bournemouth spurned.

He is a good defender, but he certainly has mistakes in him.

We've seen that before.

And he can be, in terms of temperament, a bit of a liability as well.

But

I'm prepared to give him these ones on the grounds that he was ring rusty and that Bournemouth's press was ferocious and really well organised and disciplined and diligent and clever.

When Bournemouth were 1-0 up, the goal they had disallowed, oh,

I was so sad that I think it was Evan Nielsen strayed offside.

I think Semenyo was

one of the goals of the season, I think.

The way

Tavernier picked up the ball in his own penalty area, skips around Bergval, glides past Poro, plays a give and go with Semenyo, which shakes off another two Spurs players.

and then plays the ball for it was just sensational and the speed and accuracy of the passing uh

I was really sad that that goal was ruled out, but it was correctly ruled out ultimately.

And you ask, how on earth did Bournemouth not win this game?

They didn't win this game because Papy Sarah had a cross that went in, a miss hit cross, and then Kepa was an idiot because there was no need to make that go for that ball when Sun was chasing it down.

And actually, both their goals, Nas, Bournemouth's goals, like the run from Kirkz, I mean, obviously, Tottenham just gave it to him, is is so good and the second one just Clivert's movement the finish from Evan Nielsen it's I think what's difficult for Ange is that's the kind of football that I think he's promised Tottenham will play and Tottenham fans are watching another team you know who have cost significantly less do it right in front of them yeah it's it's one of those games where do you remember in the in in the 90s when

when English teams were allowed back in Europe and they played these European teams and you just thought like this is a different style of football like this is this is not something we can cope with at the moment.

And

it felt so alien and so impossible to compete against.

That's kind of what this game felt like.

It felt as if Spurs were like a 90s Premier League team and Bournemouth were like this really silky Portuguese club or something.

The thing with Bournemouth is

every time I watch them, I'm like,

I really enjoy it and I love it, but it's always tinged with sadness because it feels like one of these teams.

And you sometimes get it.

Monaco had a team recently, Borto, Udonesi had an amazing team where

you enjoy them so much and yet you know that they're kind of getting probably gonna get broken up and you really you really don't want that because Kirk has like a water player

and

the way they combine is so it's so beautiful and the way they chase down together is so beautiful that you kind of worry that is this team going to exist next year Yeah, and I mean, that's so many of their players.

We've talked about them a lot, like Lewis Cook is playing so well, Ryan Christie is playing so well.

Just so many of them really stepping up.

And look, they have a plan.

You can just see the reaction from Tottenham fans was telling.

There was one moment where Beccario went long because he just had to.

And the crowd just erupted.

You know, they were just so excited to see him not just play a ball behind a centre-back.

And actually, Johnny, like Spurs, much like Manchester United, their whole season rests on Thursday.

They lost to Altmar and they were absolute garbage in this game.

And a game where, you know, And has been saying, we're getting our players back.

you know, this is key.

And they just didn't show up at all on Thursday.

So the pressure, I don't know if you think if they don't get through, he goes, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I wouldn't be surprised.

Personally, I think

you just have to give him the season because

the players look like the players have basically played three seasons this season.

They all look just...

They just look terrified.

They look terrified.

They look haunted.

They look,

you know, they look like they've been through some horrible things together.

And I think you just have to, maybe they get through on Thursday night.

Maybe they don't.

There's been kind of a weird atmosphere at Spurs recently for obvious reasons.

But I just don't think another, you know, hasty mid-season sacking

and just junking a squad that you've been building over the last couple of years, just when injuries are starting to clear up and when you've got a little bit of time to train the players.

I think you see how the season pans out, whether you do see the uptick in performances.

You know, we've all been told through the winter that we should be expecting once once with once they get players back yeah and and then we can sort of you know we can litigate what happened this season because it has been just a a totally like a kind of a traumatic season i think for a lot of spurs fans did you see by the way um after the game romero thanked the argentina medical staff for getting him back to full fitness but not tottenham's he said oh thanks to the argentinian fa for helping me get back to fitness so you know just one for for the narrative merchants there to to chew on talking of narrative, like, having said all that, and

I love Jonathan's Wilfred Owen-style imagery of what's going on at Spurs.

Like, it would be the funniest thing ever if they somehow stumbled into Champions League by winning the Europa League.

I think every Tottenham fan knows thinks that

Tottenham, if Tottenham stumbled to the Europa League final, Manchester United will also stumble to the Europa League final.

And there is no way in that game that Tottenham win it.

There's just no way.

Like, just history, everything.

Man United can just win a cup.

They've been shit for so long and they keep winning things.

Tottenham, you know, whether they're good or shit, don't win things.

So anyway.

Because it spurs Hoydland to score his first goal in like 56 games.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Let's go to Anfield.

Liverpool 3, Southampton 1,

15 points clear.

In some incredibly generous pre-match press conferencing, Arna Slott said that Liverpool had prepared the same way as the PSG game because both sides line up the same way off the ball.

And look, Barry, we had a tiny bit of Jeopardy, didn't we?

Southampton won the up at half-time.

Nice finish from Will Smallbone.

And Liverpool needed a couple of soft, if correct, penalty calls, but you know, the Jeopardy did not last long.

No, that's the third time Southampton have played Liverpool this season, and the other two were probably two of their best performances of the season.

They lost both games, but

didn't disgrace themselves by any means.

I don't think they disgraced themselves here either, but the result was never really in any doubt.

When I clocked that the score was 1-0 at Southampton at half-time, there isn't a single part of me that thought they'd go on to get anything from the game, and so it came to pass.

Tugawara handball for the penalty was unnecessary as he was trying to shield the ball from Louis Diaz.

And yeah, Smallbone undid his good work with a clumsy challenge on Darwin Nunes to give away the first penalty.

Nunes scored,

which will do him no end, his confidence no end of good.

So Liverpool were really, really bad in the first half and were punished and got a rocket from Aronis Slot at half-time and

then

upped their game considerably in the second and ran out easy winners.

How much are you looking forward to the PSG game, Johnny?

Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm going up tomorrow.

Yeah, it's going to be a fantastic occasion.

Especially now that Liverpool have basically won the league.

They've had their kind of,

you know, the league winning jeopardy is over.

And and so there's there's just this huge amount of emotion being poured into i mean last last week was uh i didn't i didn't see a mini minute of that live because i was at i was at buyer uh but just just reliving it um it was a like a just a fantastic occasion it's a great a great storyline one of those those classic games in which you you're just you are besieged and you have no right to win and yet um somehow some kind of institutional memory some collective resolve pulls you through.

And then, I mean, I just liked how Allison played basically one of the greatest games we've seen from a goalkeeper in midweek.

And then

at the weekend, he fluffs a clearance in his own six-yard box and gets nutmeg by Will Smallbone.

I love that so much.

It's just one of those games that brings you, I was trying to think of like an artistic parallel for this.

And it's basically like side one of Abbey Road, where

the Beatles do something.

Track two, it's one of the greatest love songs of all time.

And they follow it with Maxwell's Silver Hammer, which is, you know, probably not even the best song about a silver hammer so yeah that's that's that's just one of those um the one of those ways the game cuts you down to size at South Bridge Chelsea beat Leicester 1-0 uh Nels Cole Palmer probably the main talking point from this game he had his penalty I mean I thought quite brilliantly saved fluffed a really good chance in the second half and because he's so languid you know and so chilled out about everything

you know you can't really say well he doesn't look up for it because he never looks up for it even when he's absolutely brilliant yeah

I mean the strange thing about I mean he didn't have a good day but um the strange thing about co-palmer is i think people he's he's almost and i don't mean this in the way it sounds he's almost like an empty vessel that people imbue with all these values and things because there's this i think there's this there's this feeling that he's thick because of the way he communicates and he's not uh i i on on blue sky i i i did ask the question probably unfairly like is there a thicker football than than diogo de low i meant that on the on the pitch not outside not not outside of it and loads of people said Cole Palmer, and I was like, Is that just because the way he talks?

Is that his top put accent?

Is it the fact that his favorite sandwich is jam?

But yeah, he's yeah, I think there's levels to him.

I think there's layers to him, and I kind of like the fact that he was annoyed and showed it.

You kind of want that in a player, and

he he he doesn't want to he just want he doesn't want to be the best player in uh

in a in a Chelsea team that bob along near the top.

He wants to win stuff, So I thought that was actually a really positive thing.

Mareska was not delighted with the Chelsea fans, Barry.

The atmosphere apparently is pretty flat.

He said, we need our fans.

I said it on my Instagram two days ago.

I don't actually follow Enzo Mareska, but maybe I will.

We need them behind the players because the spirit they showed today was fantastic.

I completely understand when there's a negative feeling, but how many chances did we create in the first half?

If you think football is just PlayStation and you win easy, no way.

Every game is difficult.

The atmosphere in Premier League grounds tends to be fairly flat.

and I guess if Maresco wants to get the fans out of their seats or have a better atmosphere he should ask his employers to reduce ticket prices or

else ask his players to give them something to get excited about.

It wasn't a particularly good performance from them.

I thought it was one of Leicester's better performances and they still lost.

Rud Van Lisseleroy switched to five at the back.

But yeah, there are many, many reasons why the atmosphere of Premier League grounds isn't as good as in many foreign leagues.

And I would say expensive ticket prizes is the main one.

And I would say this, like this goes back to what we were saying about Palmer, because I think

obviously a lot of focus has been on him, but it's other players who

haven't been stepping up as well.

Sancho hasn't scored in about 15.

Neto has scored, I think, twice in four months.

Kunku has scored three all season.

And these are the players who need to be stepping up.

Because Palmer's underlying numbers are still very good he's still getting chances still getting touches in the box uh but it seems to be a collective dysfunction and that that is on morisca i think it is worth mentioning that morisca said after the game palmer was ill yes and his participation in the game had been in doubt but he he wanted to play leicester southampton this weekend ricardo asks if it's possible for both teams to lose in one match uh yeah i'd be exciting to see that basement battle but you know let's the same points as ipswich it feels so wrong to me.

It feels like Ipswich should be about 20 points ahead of Leicester, but the table doesn't lie, everybody.

Right, that'll do for part two, part three.

We'll begin at Brighton.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Week.

Clearly Brighton 2 Fulham 1.

Brilliant win for Brighton.

They're up to sixth, six wins in all competitions since that 7-0

drubbing at Forest.

All down to Harrison Reed just being a little bit eager in injury time, Niles.

I did, I mean, obviously, he shouldn't have kicked Jao Pedro, but I felt sorry for him.

Yeah, but

a lot of that is the way he looks.

I think he looks like an Eden Blighton.

He's Blightening character.

So, yeah,

he looks so confused.

And I thought, well, you did do that.

So

you kind of deserve the penalty.

But no,

I think it was a great game.

And And you talk about Southampton versus Leicester as like a basement sort of challenge, and

who can win that game.

But Brighton and Fulham feel like the two clubs

in the table who are the barometer.

They are really good teams and they will find you out if you're not quite on par.

So it was interesting to see them both play against each other.

And yeah, it was a great game.

I particularly enjoyed Jimenez's goal because...

Yeah, brilliant.

Great finish, but also

it would be great if he's now back to his best.

Because, like, if you remember when he was at Wolves, like, everyone wanted him.

He was linked to Liverpool, he was linked to

Manchester United, and

he's such a rounded striker at his best.

So,

so yeah, and also, like, he seems to, and again, like, this, this isn't a criticism, but he seems to have his bravery back, and

he's not playing with

that fear of perhaps being injured.

Yeah, his first touch as well, like to chest it and take it away from the defenders.

And the run from Awobi was brilliant as well.

I mean, Marco Silva will be pretty furious about the equaliser, Baz, because it's a great header, but

where's the Fulham team for that free kick?

It was extraordinary because Jean-Paul van Heck, was it a free kick, came in, and

he just had the freedom of the penalty.

There was nobody near him, but it was a tremendous header in off the post, across the face of goal.

And he seemed, it was like a golf shot nearly.

Is it fade or draw?

I can never remember which is which, but to send it across the face of goal and in off the post, really good.

Well done to Brighton.

Of those teams, Johnny, like if you look at it now, so you've got, so Forrester third, 51 points, Chelsea have 49, Man City 47, Brighton 46, Villa will get to in just a second or 45, Bournemouth 44, Newcastle 44, Fulham 42.

It's very hard to pick who you think will end up in that top five.

But of the ones that don't often make it into the Champions League or never do, who do you think might have the best shot, excluding Forrest, who we think will be well, will stay there?

I'd love to see, obviously, I'd love to see Bournemouth or Brighton in the Champions League.

I think

those two as well as Forrest have been just the standout teams this season for the way they...

I mean, I saw

a couple of midweeks ago, I saw Brighton Brighton against Bournemouth it was the it was like the Tuesday night game and it was like it was like watching football from the from the future it was honestly one of the the greatest games of the season just because like lots of just lots of incredibly gifted players doing

like quite strange and quirky but brilliant things like just lingering on the ball for about 12 seconds it feel it felt like Herzler and Areola are two of those those coaches who have I don't know they've managed managed to intuit football on a slightly different level to the rest of us.

And it was one of those games, I mean, I want to actually write about it at some point because it was one of those games that I think showed us where we're going.

So

whether that gets him into the top five, I don't know.

I still think Manchester City are going to claim that fifth spot or

possibly even higher.

And then I think Forrest will make it.

And then I think it's about whether Chelsea can hang on

and

whether Brighton can overtake them or or whether someone like Bournemouth can put on a run.

Do you think that, and we've sort of touched on this before, I think Barney was saying, you know, it's kind of easier to run a club the size of Brighton and Bournemouth than it is in Manchester United or perhaps in Tottenham.

But do you think it's easier just to coach those players that are just a bit cheaper?

You know, that doesn't mean they're not as good, but just a bit,

you might just have a sort of humility level within that.

And that's a cliche about, you know, high-profile players having bigger egos, etc.

But I just wonder if you can get a sort of team team ethos, a club ethos, much more easily if you're the Brighton manager or the or the Bournemouth manager.

Players will do what you want more.

I think I interviewed Potter about this at Brighton two or three years ago and he was he was definitely talking about this, about how if you could show a player like Pascal Gross or Tarek Lampti, you can show them a journey.

If you can sell them a story of progress and growth, and I'm going to give you minutes, I'm going to look after you, and then you'll get your big, you know, escape hatch move uh if you if you perform and i think that it's a lot easier to sell that kind of story to an aspirant player who's on the way up who's who's trying to get done obviously what happened when when he's he's at chelsea and you have uh 48 multi-billionaires who all want a place in the in in the starting squad and and then you're managing you're managing egos essentially you're not managing athletes i think there is there is something in in that because Brighton, I know, do a huge amount of research and insight into the kind of character character that that they're signing as well as you know the the the analysing their ability and what what they can do on the pitch so i think that's that's a big part of it you want someone who can buy into a collective ego ethos who has who isn't going to you know have them have a massive ego or or disrupt the the harmony that that you're trying to create and so therefore the best managers are the ones that can do that but at one of the big levels so pep what slot's done what klop has done because they do seem to have that

they have been able to create that same thing.

I always think when we're sort of complaining about Galacticos at PSG not working hard, and then you see how hard like Fermino, Sala, and Mane worked for Liverpool under Klopp, or how everyone on City, you know, this season side just like didn't stop doing everything that Pep wanted them to do.

And then there's got this other level who managed generally Manchester United, who just can't, who are just lost in this sort of like this horrible abyss.

Anyway, Villa won at Brentford, one nil.

Ollie Watkins with the only goal.

A big deflection.

So a big, as producer Joel says, deflecken.

Whether that was worth retelling on this, Johnny Lou's head in his hands.

So I absolve Mark Flecken for that.

I think quite interesting about

this game, and we talked about defender celebrating Nods, was Axe Dzasi, really, I mean, he was celebrating absolutely everything.

Even when he sort of gave away, definitely one penalty in my eyes.

I think probably one out of the two but he really loved he really loved doing so you know his banucci levels of celebration yeah I mean I mean he he definitely should have celebrated when he didn't get sent off for for continually giving away penalties but I I actually like I like him when I whenever I whenever I've seen him at Chelsea I've kind of he seemed slightly clumsy

thoughtless at times

but he's done really well a bit I mean I mean I know that's contradicted by the fact he he he should have given given away two penalties, but

no,

he looked really strong, and

I won't be surprised if they keep him.

The interesting thing for me is of the Villa players that are on loan, which ones they will actually keep, because

you'd assume DeSasi if Chelsea are open to that.

But in terms of forwards, personally, obviously, I've got a vested interest, but I kind of wonder whether Rashford is doing enough.

I know he's got a lot of praise and he's had a few assists, but I wonder whether that's enough for them to spend 40 million on him, especially seeing as he doesn't automatically start for them every week.

Villa scored a second straight after the first paz, which was disallowed for offside.

And since our discussion about Arsene Wenger torso offsides, I now have to check if the goal would have been allowed under the Wenger system.

And I think this one would have been because the torso of, I forget who, was it Morgan?

Was Ole Watkins was on side before he saw

Morgan Rogers?

Are you doing the same thing?

Yeah, I think his torso was on side and his kneecap, his patella, wasn't.

And

which is a bit of a shame because it was a good goal.

This was an interesting game in that it was a team

who used to be really good at home, but having won in seven now, I think, at home, Brentford, playing a team who's away form was pretty dismal.

So I had it nailed down as a draw, and it probably should have been.

I think Brainford were a bit unlucky.

Uh,

as has been pointed out on another day, they could have had two penalties, um, missed some decent chances, and

yeah, it was a good win for Villa, but slightly fortuitous, I think.

Yeah, I don't, I don't know how the first penalty, I know DeZasi doesn't mean to, but he falls over and just absolutely clears it clears him out, doesn't it, Kevin Chada?

It's a baffling decision.

Um, Palace won it, switched nil.

Uh,

The Adam Wharton pass in the first minute, John is my favourite moment of the weekend.

He's such a special player, I think.

It's great to see him back.

The pass reminded me of Modric, actually.

Yeah.

Because Modric is one of those, he's got, I think, one of the greatest outsteps that we've ever seen.

And being able to pick a pass that basically isn't available in a straight line.

Like, Nketty is making the run, and he has to bend it.

And because he's under pressure, it has to be the outside of the foot.

And it has to go, you know, and yeah, I think Wharton is one of those players where, who is, who's still very much potential, you know, he's been tipped for big things, and you see just in little flashes and glimpses, uh, what he might be capable of.

And it's just, it's just so exciting

to see a player at that kind of stage in his career where you're still kind of trying to extrapolate what they might, what they might end up being.

And obviously, Tuchel's naming his England squad this week, which is, you know, it's quite timely because

Wharton is one of those players.

I think Andreel Gomez is another, you know, copy menu potentially, even though he hasn't been playing too much, who you sort of need.

England haven't had that sort of player at the base of midfield who can just pick up the ball off the defence and move it forward and play

defense splitting passes and just take care of it.

I don't think Rice is that sort of player.

And it's interesting to see whether Tuchel decides to go for a Wharton kind of player whether he wants that sort of presence or whether he wants a kind of a more physical

you know stand there big man kind of midfielder who will who will scrap around and and and be be um be a little bit nasty

it's a shame in Ketia who obviously you know is a bit rusty hasn't played that much football didn't score that goal in the same way that you know Giao Polini didn't score that ridiculous setup from Mussiala in in midweek the past will be forgotten and we won't be talking about this pass in five years time i'm convinced of it i suspect you will, Max.

Maybe, maybe, you're right.

And it's my side does really well that finish.

It's a great thing, isn't it?

Look, Ipswich now is the only side without a win in 2025.

And they just feel like they're sort of okay.

Maybe it's like Luton last year.

Like, they're showing real fight.

They seem to be the promoted side that's that's given it a bit, which means what, they'll get relegated to league one next next season, like Luton are at the moment.

Um, well, I mean, I mean, the

sort of a flip of that is

they, I mean,

I mean, you're right.

It just feels so strange that they're third from bottom and by a margin, where they, every time you see them,

they play with intelligence, with intent.

I'd really hope that

they essentially come straight back up and hopefully there's every chance.

Because

I think they are a Premier League club.

I think they play in a way that perhaps with a a couple more players would have uh would have been rewarded with like a comfortable like 13th 14th position uh like end result so so yeah they I mean I mean they they're always interesting to watch I I actually think if if you look at like all the teams near the bottom I I'd say Leicester are obviously not good but Southampton again they're a team where they they

they've only got nine points but they they do give any team a game and and we saw we saw that against um we saw that against Liverpool we saw that against Manchester United.

So, yeah, it's a strange one.

Maybe we should extend

the Premier League to 22 teams.

So, like, two really bad teams come up, and then

at least teams like Ipswich and Southampton can be rewarded for being competent.

Well, I mean, it's the mezzanine that we've come up with, where they that's where they go to the mezzanine, these promoted sides, and just sort of sit there and have a fun little five-team league just for a few years.

Crossed my mind the other day.

I I just wonder: do any of the three teams in the relegation zone, are any of them, are all of them clinging on to the hope that Manchester City might get docked like a million points and that would mean one of them stays up?

So are they having their own little fight to finish third from bottom rather than second from bottom?

I mean, we can only speculate.

I don't know.

They're not doing a great job of it, really.

If they are scrapping

desperately for 18th place,

I'm not sensing of um

a lot of grit and resilience there

um wolves everton was on eight o'clock on a saturday night which is no time for premier league football you know the only football that should be on is like la liga when you sort of like just are flicking along and go oh look oh athletia playing uh gottafe maybe i'll give it 10 minutes you're having a pizza and a couple of beers and yeah

just some serie game yeah exactly

so look well i mean look i i only saw those highlights i suspect the same for you guys I don't know.

But the only thing of note I thought, and we talked about Adam Warton's pass, the Belligard pass to Manetti is Barry, is absolutely, it's like a putt.

It's so perfect.

And that was the only real highlight I thought of this football match.

Yeah, it wasn't a very good game.

I think a draw was probably fair.

It was pretty scrappy.

That was a moment of quality.

Picked for that to make a couple of decent saves.

And

yeah, it wasn't.

It was very Saturday night.

I mean, David Moyes said in the build-up to the game, he was asked about the eight o'clock Saturday night kickoff, and he said, Well, I'm normally had a bottle of red by eight o'clock on a Saturday.

He didn't even seem he was joking, but well, I don't think he was joking, but he didn't even seem particularly inclined for that.

that time.

I love the way that the one person who was incredibly invested was Kunya, because they kept on the camera kept on going to him.

And if anything, he looked as if he was ready to punch someone just for the fact that he'd got himself suspended.

So, yeah, I think he was the one player who was or one person who was invested in this eight o'clock kickoff.

But yeah,

maybe it's the kind of game where maybe it's the kind of

time of the weekend where you want your Mumford and Sons rather than your punk.

Possibly.

I just think, I know,

there are smarter people than me that, you know, work out all the packages for when games take place.

And obviously,

you know, the Premier League gets loads of money from football.

And when it's at 8 p.m., that's a really good time.

Certain, you know, countries, like in Australia, that's a really great time for, you know, you go, you wake up, you, oh, there it is.

8's got a kickoff.

Sunday morning, you can just watch that.

Oh, bloody hell.

It's Warsview Everson.

Back to bed.

I mean, there is that.

Can we have some that are sacrosanct?

I'd still move Europa League to Tuesday, do all the Champions League on a Wednesday, and say Thursday, not allowed.

I just think that would be really great for all of us.

But I don't run the game.

Let's finish on this email from Colm who says, is that how I pronounce it, Barry?

C-O-L-M?

Colm?

Column.

Colm.

Column.

Column.

Colm.

Thank you, Column.

Colm.

Hi, Max Barry and the Football Weekly team.

I think this is the opposite of the Vessekti Me email as I'm waiting for my wife to give birth to our third child.

And as my work is already done, I said I may as well email you, lads.

As a father to...

I'm just trying to think of which point in the pregnancy.

When has that happened?

Because

I feel like your work only increases until the baby arrives.

Anyway, as a father to two incredibly soon-to-be-three kids, my available time to go to or even watch football matches is extremely limited.

You lot are the way I consume and keep up to date with all things football, even listening to the same pod more than once in a week.

Blind me.

You obviously don't know this, but you were there for me in my darkest times when I was recovering from a car accident four years ago, where it would take me over half an hour to slowly walk up to a kilometre.

You were in my ears.

My brother Alan and friend Peter regularly discuss the pod rather than the football in our In and Around Clichés WhatsApp group, where we frequently discuss how the game is going.

As Irishmen, we get particular joy from Barry's jubilation when England are knocked out of tournaments and beaten in finals.

We sense your relief, Barry.

Anyway, gents, I better get back in there and greet the newest Manchester United fan.

God knows where penny-pinching Jim will have the club by the time this child understands football.

Amateur status may be where he won't need to pay players.

Keep up the good work, lads.

You help people more than you'll ever know.

Appreciate a shout-out to Alan and Peter, as I won't be seeing them for a pint for a while.

All the best.

Coleman Ross Common.

Thank you so much, Colm.

I appreciate your email.

It's very nice to hear from you.

Best of luck with the third kid.

That is certainly one more than I'll be having.

I can guarantee that.

We're discussing, Barry, whether if I do have a vasectomy, whether I should

think I sort of should broadcast it.

You know, I should record it

for a live show, but then I feel so embarrassed telling the doctors that, you know, trying to explain that I'm not an influence.

I'm not doing this as like an an influence, and there's like context.

But I don't know, I don't know.

Sure of a sector to me, Max, you can do whatever you want.

You're absolutely right.

Can I just say, um,

I feel bad for the people of Nottingham, so I've had a quick Google, and there's loads of famous people from Nottingham.

There's, yeah, there's Vicky McClure, Jake Bug, yeah, Robert Harris, yes, of course, Mr.

Mr.

Jam, who's a DJ,

Sue Pollard, Stuart Broad,

Carl Throtsch.

Yeah, so this is terrible.

It's a terrible list.

Up your game, Nottingham.

This is a major.

What have you got against Nottingham Forest getting into the Champions League?

Every team does Sakurin.

Look at us, we're in the territory.

Well, quite apart from the fact that they're going to lose six of their eight games.

I mean, there's going to be this huge build-up.

It's going to be like emotional.

They're going to interview John McGovern if he's still alive.

I assume he's still alive.

They're going to get Martin O'Neill on just to, you know, reminisce, and they're going to lose.

They're just going to lose six out of eight.

Like, what is the point of it?

This is the point.

This is the point.

Not next.

Next season is going to be going to be bad.

This season, great.

All in favor of this season.

I mean, will this change your mind, Jonathan?

Jane Torville?

Yeah, fair enough.

Okay.

All right.

All right.

Proper like Bolero legends.

We stand a true Sarajevo legends.

I mean, it's.

Yeah, I think it's just good.

Like, it's always saccharine, isn't it?

Apart Apart from, you know, teams that are in it every year who are just a bit bored of it.

Like,

whether if Bournemouth get there, it will be saccharin in a different way, I guess.

But,

yes.

I'm glad we righted the wrongs.

I'm not sure we have, to be honest.

I can see this not ending well for Johnny Doo.

Give them a playoff, right?

Just having to commit to this for like eight, possibly ten games.

They might scrape a playoff.

And, you know, but I think that that's a lot of Nottingham Forest in the Champions League.

Even for Nottingham Forest fans, I think, especially if they go on a bit of a, you know, a bad run, you've got, you know.

Put down the shovel, Johnny.

Nil-nil against Red Star Belgrade.

Great.

I mean,

I think he loves the digging.

You know, like, this is...

This is Lou in his element, isn't it?

Anyway, I'll put you, I'll stop you in mid-flow if that's okay.

Terrible football.

Chris Wood's going to score three next season.

Just enjoy.

Just enjoy the moment.

Thank you, Johnny.

Yeah, cheers.

Cheers.

Thanks, Nos.

Thanks.

Cheers, Barry.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Dale Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

We'll be back on Wednesday.

This is The Guardian.