Chelsea back in the top four and Crystal Palace thrash Villa: Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Four Premier League games to run through for you, all of them involving the gripping race for the top five.

Do we add Crystal Palace into the mix?

A great win over Villa.

Push the Adam Wharton button and watch them play.

Add as a Sarah Matetta.

And when they're good, they're really good.

Brighton, who've had an up-and-down season and now level on points with Bournemouth, who've won every game, while Fulham went at Wolves, and it's Chelsea's turn for a free game against Southampton.

There are some games to look forward to tonight: Rangers sacking Philippe Plement, the Ballon d'Or, Salah, Afcon, Carragher debate, and the European referee in crisis.

And then panellists seen in the wild and an exciting Munich update.

All that plus your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, you grimaced, Barry, at the news of a Munich update, I see.

Well, it was a grimace incorporating

that and panellist scene in the wild.

That might not be me.

No, it isn't you.

Nada Manuha.

Hello.

Hello, sir.

And welcome, Barney Ronay.

Hello, everyone.

Let's start at Selhurst Park.

Then Crystal Palace 4, Aston Villa 1.

I thought Naden Palace were brilliant in this game.

Yeah, Palace is sort of hitting a a bit of form here, aren't they?

I think start of the season they were down near the bottom.

There was a bit of critique around them.

Then they started doing okay.

So we do what, well, I say we, maybe I'm projecting what most people do, which is just forget about Palace because they're doing fine.

And now they're actually seeing some of that football that we saw at the end of last season with the likes of Elise and so on.

And before you know it, they're like a good team against anybody that they play.

You can see the manager's got confidence, the players have got confidence.

And against the Nastan Villa side, who have got something very significant to be playing for right now, I think the nature of that result is a bit bit of a shock to me.

But then in some ways, some of those Villa fans, no, unfortunately for them, it's a bit inconsistent.

But Palace, yeah, they feel like they're set, the team's there.

Like, you know, you mentioned Walt himself, you know, everyone's like, oh, Walter, he's back, he's back, he's back, he's back.

Yeah, he's back and he's making a difference.

And the manager himself said he's rusty, but you still put in a good performance and you need to against a Villa side that's as organized as they are.

So it's a great win for them and a great one for Belief as well, because Villa, come to the end of the season, might be the Champions League again.

I love Adam Wharton, Barney.

I don't know if I just got, I sort of got on that wave when he was picked for England and I and I was you know I was I was really pro him playing because he didn't get a kick then you know I might be justified in having so much belief in him but he does he does fizz every pass doesn't it like he really every time he kicks it he kicks it with real meaning and I suppose most footballers probably do do that but I really see it with him no it's that's the sign of a of a really good footballer, isn't it?

Someone who can stand out in the company of other really good footballers, even for one particular characteristic.

It's how quickly he passes the ball because he's obviously got an amazing ability to see what's ahead of him and to understand 10 seconds ahead of getting the ball what his options are.

And it really works in this palace team because if you saw the goals last night,

they counter press really well and they win the ball high at the pitch and there are these quick movements.

They have obviously have the attacking players that we know about who are really good on the ball.

And having someone like him who is already knows which three passes he can play and then plays them really quickly really confidently i mean he's really fearless and that really works for him he's brilliant in that system i there's obviously a reason why he didn't play much for england at the euros i'm really tired of everybody second guessing gareth southgate who's the best england manager of my lifetime but also clearly a fraud a cheat and a betrayer of albion but it would maybe he wasn't fit maybe he just didn't fit the system, who knows?

But it was something that was noticeably missing, that speed of thought.

I really hope he's just allowed to play a palace for a bit and get better and get better and isn't forced into some disastrous move to a bigger club.

I am looking straight at you, hard in the eyes, Manchester United.

Don't mind that.

Do you know what's interesting?

So I think a lot of us forget he's only been in the Premier League for a year, and in that time he's had some time away as well.

But do you reckon, here's a question for you.

do you think we have a subconscious bias towards left-footed players?

Because it looks nice because we see it less.

Because you're talking about the way he wraps the ball around in midfield.

Does it just look better because it's come from that left side and we can't think of comparables for it?

I think people, there's a thing, there's a thing people don't understand about left-footed and left-handed people, and I am one of them.

Is

left-footed and left-handed people are better at doing things because

you spend your entire life trying to work in a right-handed world.

So, everything you do, whether it's changing gear in a car, using scissors, using cutlery, you have to really think about it.

How am I going to do this?

It's not quite right.

The same happens in cricket.

Most of the bowlers are right-arm bowlers.

So, left-handers have to think about different angles to score, have to think about the ball coming across them all the time.

I think it may be the same in football, where the norm is right, and so the left actually has to think constantly and has to do things differently.

I don't think it's just optics, I think it's actually an advantage to be really talented, but in a slightly different way that that makes you think slightly at odds with things.

That's just my theory about the terrible persecution of left-handers through history.

That's you, Barney, as a left-handed person as well.

But sure, we will carry her.

Well, the word

cash points, Barney, in the persecution.

Left-handed people have been, I mean, the word sinister comes from being left-handed.

It was seen as ungodly and devilish, and people were forced to become right-handed.

So the likes of Adam Wharton, myself,

we have had to learn how to live in your world.

I mean, it's interesting that the Palace fans are thinking, at last, we're getting some chat.

And it's bullshit, yeah.

But, you know, as a left-hander, although a right-footer, you know, I'm like with everything else, just in the middle of all of this, Barry, as well, I know you're a left hander.

Well, that means that

you're misaligned.

It means that somewhere in your body,

that's the technical term for it.

Somewhere in your body, you change,

the gravity changes around your waist between left and right, dominant, and it means that you're even weirder.

Well, okay, good.

Interestingly, though, like all left-handed sports people look better except for golfers, and it looks completely wrong.

And I don't know why this is back to the game, Barry.

Give us some salient thoughts on it.

Well, I was surprised to learn this was only Crystal Palace's third win at home this season.

And

I suppose Villa deserve

a bit of sympathy.

It was their third game in in seven days.

So that's going to take it out of them.

I think they're fourth in ten, something like that.

But I thought Palace were terrific.

Thomas Tuchel, who's been criticised for working from home and not attending enough matches, he was here.

There was quite a few England prospects on show.

Just going back to Adam Wharton.

I remember Kevin Day, comedian and Crystal Palace fan, insisting to us, Max, that England would have won the Euros if Adam Wharton had played in the final.

Now, I'm with him.

We can only speculate, we'll never know, but that he was adamant that England would have won that final if Wharton had been playing.

There was an amusing moment at half-time in this game.

Robin Goldson was warming up to come on for Emi Martinez in the second half, and he refused to leave the goal in which he was warming up

so that the Crystal Palace mascots could have their half-time penalty competition.

So that led to him being roundly booed for the rest of the game.

But he did set up Villa's goal, a lovely long ball that

Sam Allardyce would have been purring over.

His long ball flicked on by Ollie Watkins.

Morgan Rogers finished it.

But yeah, I think Thomas Tuchel will have come away with it from that game going, hmm, I very much like what I saw there.

Jean-Philippe Mateta was superb again, scored a lovely goal.

He's French, Barry.

I know he is.

You can't pick him.

Tuchel's going to pick him, and there's going to be a disaster.

Yeah, I'm well aware.

You can't have a German manager and a French centre forward.

What's gone wrong?

They're both trying to play from home, weren't they?

They're both trying to do it on Zoom because they're lazy.

So, anyway, the upshot is that Jean-Philippe Mateta is French, and that was Villa's seventh

away defeat out of nine games, which is not good for a team

trying to

qualify for the Champions League again.

But it is a good result for the Champions League, the race for the Champions League spots, which is pretty much all we've got left in the best league in the world in February.

Yeah, it is all we've got left, Nathan.

But, I mean,

how far can Palas go?

You know, they're good side.

They're on 36 points.

Well, they're eight points off fifth, having played a game more.

A decent run for any side.

Are you suggesting they could finish top five?

Is this what you're doing, Max?

Is this what you're doing?

I'm not suggesting.

Is this what you're doing?

What he's doing, Nadum, is asking you to suggest it so that it's you who look like an Indian.

Okay, nothing.

Allow me to look like an information.

Okay, so, Max, I think historically, to finish in the top four or five, you probably need somewhere like 65 points-ish, okay?

So Palace are on 36, and they've got 11 games to go.

Yeah.

What do you think?

Do you think that's likely?

Do you think that's likely?

From my misaligned position, it feels unlikely.

Welcome to the recency bias pod.

And Crystal Palace is going to finish in the top five.

Everything's great and so on and so forth.

No, they're doing great.

And maybe they could catch up to teams in eighth.

Because one thing we've seen, for example, is in these recent weeks, this race for the top five has featured loads of teams basically just falling over each other.

Because if there was a team that was in true, true form, they'd probably be quite clear now.

But again, we talk about, as Barry's just said, like seven defeats in nine away from home for Villa, but they're still in the race to be in the top five.

Well, how is that possible if your form can be that bad away from home?

Anything's possible in this last stage of the season, but I think in the end, like the quality will rise in the moments that matter the most.

And unfortunately, I don't think Palace have that quality right now, but they're definitely going to be a tough team to play against.

Actually, you wrote a piece about this, Barney, about, you know,

the sort of disappointing Premier League currently.

It's almost a shame Liverpool have been really good because if they hadn't been, it would be incredibly tight.

And I don't know if that's because nobody would be good or bad teams are actually quite good sometimes.

Well, that's an interesting.

I don't really know what those words mean, but that is an interesting point.

I was thinking about this last night.

It was really good for me personally, and this pod is obviously about me and how I feel, but it was good for me personally to watch these teams.

I watched all the games last night.

I sped between them and then stopped and then came back.

And

there's this kind of tier of Premier League teams who,

you know, the ones that everybody's clinging to right now.

I mean, I was criticised for saying that the season is dead because we know who's going to win it, probably know who's going to come second and third.

We know who's going to get relegated.

And it's the same teams and it's February.

Because I think it kind of depends who you watch.

Because when you watch, there's a kind of tier of teams, like you could call them.

Brightfordmouth, you know, your Brentfords, your Brighton, your Bournemouths, who are lovely to watch, play really nice football.

It's kind of like watching the Bundesliga 10 years ago.

They're really optimistic, fun teams who are overachieving, using the budget they've got really well.

Obviously have really intelligent scouting and good managers.

And if you watch those teams, the season is really lively and fun and

really great to watch.

Whereas if, like me, you spend your whole time watching these failing giants who just happen to have greater sort of click power on the internet.

It's like being one of those murder cops who only hunts serial killers.

You become kind of brutalized by it and you imagine the whole world is a dark.

It's like watching Man United all the time.

It's like watching the film Seven.

You know,

everything is gothic, there is only decay.

You get back from Old Trafford and Man United have sent you a head in a box.

And it was really refreshing to remember that actually, because people kept sent me emails saying, well, actually, I watch,

that's not my experience.

I rather like these teams that I watch every week.

And it's true, it was really nice to watch these kind of pop-up teams from quite small clubs, don't have that legacy baggage, who've used the money really well.

It's still a struggle to actually win anything.

I mean, the fact is, even though the broadcast will keep telling us it's really great to have these progressive, smaller teams finishing seventh, eighth, sixth, it's still going to be the same teams winning things and the same teams going down.

But it was really nice to watch Brightford Mouth last night.

And

that's the mid-week Premier League, League, which is actually fun, optimistic, and full of some quite, really good football.

I would agree, and I think the point, for example, yesterday that Bournemouth versus Brighton is a big game.

I think that's a really good thing to speak about because historically, you wouldn't necessarily class it as being that at this point in the season, but it's a big game with something on the line.

And for all those fans of the clubs who, say, for all the years, have watched the regular powers that be always take those top six, seven spots, it's this is an exciting end to the season.

So, yes, I think at times you're probably right.

We can be jaded as a media in terms of talking about how, say, like Good Liverpool have been, how bad United have been, how Bad City have been, and so on.

But there's a lot going on in that top half of the table that's really fascinating.

And, you know, for those teams, like between now and May, it's going to be brilliant.

Every single game towards the end now is going to be like a cup final for them.

So more power to them.

And yeah, we need to keep an eye on that as well.

Yeah, I mean,

perhaps other pods, we haven't mentioned Manchester United or Spurs once this season, I don't think, Barry.

Let's talk about Brighton Bournemouth, because not only was it an important game for these two sides, it was a really good game.

and either side could have won it, I thought, Bats.

Yeah, it's exactly the sort of game Barney was talking about.

Really entertaining game.

I thought Bournemouth were probably the better side, but Brighton just scored more than them.

And that's what it's all about, I suppose.

Fabian Herzler's birthday today, he's 32.

We were discussing the aging process before we came on air, and I'm very envious of the fact that he's only 32.

He's a good-looking man, and he's got a great job, and doing a pretty good job in his great job.

Yeah, this was just

really, just a really fun game of football that could have gone either way.

Thought Diego Gomez was excellent for Brighton, Jean-Paul Van Heck, and Adam Webster were good in the heart of their defence.

Matoma was good again, Hinshelwood, Minte, Jason Cliver, or Justin Clivert scored a fantastic goal, and I thoroughly enjoyed this as a sort of an unexpected midweek treat.

Diego Gomez.

Yes, yes, Barney.

I was going to ask if England would have won the Euros if they had taken a fully functioning Danny Welbeck as a backup to Harry Kane.

Yes.

I thought you were going to suggest Justin Clivert.

Or Jason Clivert.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You think so?

You think so, Barney?

I mean, I don't know.

I mean, this Indian.

He's a really good player.

Indian summer he's having.

Yeah, he's great, I think.

And he's kind of mobile.

And when it became clear that Kane was clearly not fit, not well, he would have been a good, not like for like, but, you know, clever player.

Southgate would have basically might have brought him on, you know, because he would have liked what he was doing.

He wasn't even in the conversation, though, was he?

He wasn't even mentioned, as far as I can remember.

No, I don't think he was fit, maybe, but he had a really good start to this season, and he was scoring goals.

And you suddenly remembered that he's really good.

He's got better.

I think he's got better at Brighton.

That's something that's really brought good things out of him.

Yeah, it's really good to see him doing well.

Yeah, and it was a brilliant finish from him.

Diego Gomez, Nadem.

I'd not heard of this man,

but he came from Inter Miami, and you're the resident MLS expert.

Oh, yes, I am.

Yeah, I watch all of Inter Miami's games.

Yes, especially for Gomez, not for Messi or Suarez or Alaba or whoever.

Yeah,

it's another, you know, it feels like it's another good signing from Brighton.

And it's interesting as well because we spoke about this the other day.

There is a bit of a pathway happening now between MLS and some of these players making their way to Europe.

I think for some, it's almost like establishing a style of play.

And for him, he did that in North America.

He's come over to England and it's good to see that he can fit in because for Brian, these signings, you know, they need, they have to matter.

Sometimes the turnover can be too much.

But if you can bring in a play like that and he can continue to flourish, to develop, firstly, maybe if they're in Europe next year, he can stay there instead of just being sold.

But for now, it's an exciting player to be looking at.

Bournemouth and Brighton, then seventh and eighth, both on 43 points.

Who, Barry, would you favour as the running continues?

It's like I said in the intro, I feel like Bournemouth should be 30 points ahead of Brighton in the way the narrative has run around my head.

Yeah,

I don't know.

It's sort of a toss-up.

I didn't think Bournemouth would lose this game, if I'm honest.

My concern for Bournemouth would be that I think they will struggle to hold on to Andy Ureola regardless of where they finish in the league.

I think Herzler will be at Brighton for some time to come and Brighton seem to have, even if he is in Brighton, seem to have a better succession

plan in place than Bournemouth do, although that may change now because Ureola, I mean, everyone was sort of going, who's he, apart from Sid,

when he arrived, and Sid was loudly banging the drum on his behalf and has been thoroughly vindicated in that.

So to answer your question in a very roundabout way, I don't know.

All right, perfect.

That'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin with Fulham's win at Wolves.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

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Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office.

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A proper football journalist, man.

Exactly.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Fulham are ninth, Nadum.

They're two points off fifth place.

Yeah.

So I ask you the same Crystal Palace question,

except regards Fulham.

Yeah, Fulham overall this season have impressed me, and I'm surprised that they are that low, because when I do tend to watch them, it feels like they're in a good runner form.

But then some of the defeats they've had in recent weeks, I suppose that's really what's been costing them.

But I think their style of play travels well.

I think they've got a manager who believes that the team can do well.

And they've got a bunch of players who are, to some extent, having some of their best seasons as well.

So I think they're very much part of that conversation.

And to get that win away at Wolves, I think that ends up being a good quality win, to be honest, because Wolves themselves, I'd argue some of the pressure is off because of the gap now to the bottom three.

And so, as a consequence, they're going to be having the manager style involve more, trying to score more goals like they have been doing.

But,

yeah,

I like Fulham.

Um, I think they're a good side.

Whether they finish in the top five, I'm not sure, but to be in the conversation for it is very, very impressive.

And like I say, I've enjoyed watching them all year, and I was kind of put on the radar when they kind of battered City at the Etihad in maybe October time.

Obviously,

I think they ended up losing, but I was like, okay, fair enough.

Fair enough.

And then they proceeded to do that against some other big sides as well.

So, sorry, not big sides, more successful sides as well.

So, I'm a believer.

And who knows, maybe that game, the last game of the season, is Man City at home.

Imagine if that's a tie to see who finishes in the top five for the Premier League this season, Fulham versus Man City at the cottage.

Obviously, it's not under the lights, but it will do for a final game of the season, won't it?

It would, yeah.

Barry, the winning goal in this game was absolutely beautiful, and you know, and some more end product from Adama Triora.

Yeah, it was a beautifully weighted uh pass between uh Santi Bueno and Totti Gomez.

Uh, Rodrigo Munes latched onto it, and just, or I don't think he even latched it, I think it might have been his first touch, just clipping over the on-rushing Jose.

Wonderful finish that is quite difficult, but he made it look so, so easy.

Uh, really wonderful finish.

i think

wolves kind of gave this one away i mean there's clearly uh nothing wrong with losing to fulham but they gifted them a goal at the very start of each half and that's hard to come back from so

they they will probably feel they should have got something from this game and i think that it was a very good chance for them to really put some distance between them and the bottom three and they kind of wasted it with those sloppy goals goals.

I've got to say, as well, like from a playing standpoint, and Max, you know, this, you know, you've played at some level.

I played the game, yeah, yeah, you've kicked the ball before.

It's that whole thing, like, especially playing at home, right, boys or girls, whatever, let's start well, let's give the crowd something to be excited about, let's let's push on, let's, no chances, no risks, whatever.

First few minutes, oh, you won't know down for God's sake, you know what I mean?

Then you go in at half time, it's like, right, boys, chance to reset, let's start really well, just put them under pressure, get the crowd up.

Oh, we're 2-1 down.

Okay, brilliant.

Talk about just vibe killers.

Start of both halves.

Honestly, I've been there.

It's a nightmare, Max.

Yeah, delighted for Ryan Sessenya because he's obviously had such a tough time with injury while I was at Spurs and has come back to Fulham.

His first goal for them since 2018, which was also against Wolves.

Chelsea beat Southampton 4-0 back into the top four.

What did you make of this one, Barney?

Well, yeah, I watched most of this game.

I was kind of glued to it a bit because Southampton is such an interesting...

I mean, it was kind of a no-contest.

Chelsea don't have to play well to beat Southampton because the quality of players will see them through.

They don't need to do anything particularly coherent.

And Southampton, I just

don't know what the plan is, really.

I've become really fascinated by Yvonne Durich.

He now has the lowest points per game of any manager in Premier League history to oversee 10 or more games, which is, I mean, that's a thing.

That's definitely an extreme achievement.

And he just looks like, he looks like he's speaking to you from inside a nuclear bunker.

I mean, it's really like they went from someone who didn't seem that bothered,

we're going to play our way, to the full hollow-eyed, just like, this is a nightmare.

You know, that manager appointments are often a reaction against what went before.

But this was terrible.

It was just really.

The golf, not just in class, but in any kind of stitching.

Southampton

should be an example of what's wrong with Chelsea, how the team doesn't really function, how it's not really been built as a current thing.

They should be able to exploit that by being the opposite of that.

But they're like a bad Chelsea.

I don't know what the plan was exactly.

And it was just a horrible.

I think the fans must have left that game quite depressed.

Like by the end, Mark Cucciorella has scored and he's doing a funny celebration and laughing.

And that's that's bad.

that's a really bad situation in any any game and they really I think they've lost their last two games 4-0 I think they've lost nine of the last ten and the point they're not in double figures are they with points it's it's really quite drastic and it's when the Premier League falls apart at moments like that where the gulf is just too big for the teams coming in and what they've attempted to do to try and bridge that just isn't good enough there's not enough desperation there there's a feeling that well we'll probably go down anyway and this was a no-contest, which was kind of a shame.

Southampton lost 4-0 on Saturday, and Aaron Ramsdale made eight saves in that game.

He made a couple of saves last night when they lost 4-0 again, and Cole Palmer missed three chances you would expect Pete Cole Palmer to put away in his sleep.

I think there's a serious, serious battering.

Like, we could get that elusive 10-0

before the season season is out, if some team really goes for it.

And I think Aaron Ramsdale is really quite interesting because he's playing well in a very bad team, and he's basically playing for his Premier League future because there are some teams in the Premier League who need a decent goalkeeper.

And he needs to not be at Southampton next season if he's to have any hope of reviving

his England career, one suspects.

So, yeah,

when he signed for Southampton, you're kind of going, right, he's desperate for Premier League football.

Are you really that desperate for Premier League football?

So to see

him playing well in this terrible team and preventing them from being absolutely, you know, battered out of sight by seven, eight, nine goals every week is is kind of fascinating.

Nathan, do you d does does it matter how bad this season is for Southampton regards what's happened next season?

Or

does the summer mean people go off, have a bit of time in Dubai, come back, do some squat throws?

You're a toxic individual.

You're a toxic individual.

Maybe they'll go to a darkness retreat and just wonder about life.

I think for them at this point in the season, it's fair to say from everyone that when you look at the collection of players that they have, they were going to find it tough anyway, even if they were playing to their absolute best.

So now they're in a position where,

as the guys have said, they've got nine points.

They're 13 points points from safety.

They're not really in a position where they're winning games.

Most of the players on the pitch aren't in good confidence.

They don't have the belief.

And also, in reality, at this moment, they don't have the quality.

And the teams that they play against know all these things.

So they push on the weaknesses all the time.

So we could go in the position where they fight, they fight, they fight, then they concede.

And then the atmosphere just drops again.

And I think the mentality of like a Premier League player or one of the better players goes beyond just, you know, we're going to try hard.

It's like, how do you react to adversity?

And this is obviously one of the issues that they're sort of struggling with at this moment in time so i don't think it's a case of this season doesn't matter because of course it does not least of all like if i was in there and i knew my team was just a disaster overall i'd be rooting to just have more than 11 points you know you don't want to go down as the worst team in premier league history you need to find a way to at least cover that and finish the season somehow with some wins and give the fans like a reason to believe that next season could be okay because for how badly they're doing now you almost get the feeling that if they have the same squad it's going to roll over into the next season yeah maybe they won't be at the bottom of the table for long but then look at looting Look where Luton are in the championship at this moment in time.

It's amazing how quickly some downturning form can sort of be carried over into the next season.

But

they have to keep going.

The fans, it must be so tough for them watching their team lose and get battered every single week.

But

you have to keep going.

It's your job.

It's your opportunity.

And for some of these players, they might never play in the Premier League again.

So if you don't maximize that, even in a sort of losing team, then what hope do you have?

And one presumes like at the end of the season, Tyler Dibling will leave.

Ramsdale will probably leave.

I'm struggling to think of anyone else who's well, you could say, like Harwood Bellis, who's in England International now, but again, you never know because the financial stability of the club might mean that they're not going to be trying to get rid of those players.

You know, whereas say a decade or more ago, it's always like, oh, they have to get rid of the players.

They have to.

In this instance, do they have to, or is it going to be more of a choice?

Neither of them started last night either, which I mean, managers often know maybe they're not fit or something, but seemed what gets me is that there's just no obvious plan, though.

I know, um, I'm sure, Nedim, Nedim, you're right, that the players that they've assembled basically aren't good enough, but I don't really know what they're trying to do.

I just remembered there's this, there was an advert at Halftime, and it's for Amazon.

And in it, there's this mum and her son, and they're at the beach, and they've obviously moved there from some urban center.

And the mum, it ends up with the mum buying the kid a surfboard so that he can go and surf.

And this changes his life.

It's really great.

But in the lead-up to that, they show the kid he's a a skateboarder and he's trying to skateboard on the sand and it won't work.

And he's really head in hands, like, this isn't working.

I need some other kind of board to work because my surfboard, my skateboard won't work on wet sand.

And if you think about this incredibly stupid advert, because nobody takes, would ever actually take a skateboard out onto sand and try and do it and then be shocked to find that a surfboard.

But that's what I feel that Southampton are.

They're trying to.

Russell Martin tried to skateboard on sand.

What he was trying to do was just never going to work in the Premier League, where you simply can't play like a team like that.

And I agree, I agree with what Nedham said that they might find it really hard in the championship, which is a good league.

Because if you try to skateboard on sand there as well, teams will very quickly work that out.

And there's a lot of strong teams who really enjoy playing against that Southampton team.

That advert you were talking about, Baronie, the Mammy in that doesn't have any lines, but I would bet any money that is she is Irish.

That is the most Irish-looking mammy I've ever seen.

A number of Chelsea fans protested against their ownership, Blue Coat Clear Lake, before the game.

Some threw dollar bills and chanted against Todd Bowley.

Others targeted Blue Co., some were just singing Roman Abramovich's name.

One fan had a banner saying win or Arsenal win or F off.

Any strong thoughts on

this protests?

I mean, do they I mean singing Abramovich's name may not be the right thing, but do they have a point about what their owners are doing or not?

People can like whatever they like and people like winning.

Abramovich is often described as the best owner in Premier League history, which kind of tells you a lot about the Premier League.

I mean he they the new owners came in having to deal with some accounting problems that the club is still trying to

make a deal over.

I mean,

there was no financial incentive there.

He ran a billion pound transfer surplus in loans to the club.

This was not a real football project.

And Roman Abramovich was in many ways a cipher.

This has been established now in the UK courts and in Catherine Belton's book.

Like, yes, people like winning, but I don't think we need a league full of Roman Abramovich's really.

Fun as he was and fun as the years 2004-2006 were.

But I do entirely agree that the current ownership is the most inept

and sort of unpleasant.

They're a threat to football, I think, and a threat to it as a robust, competitive thing and not an entertainment product.

And anyone who wants to protest against them will certainly have my full support.

I was going to say, I understand that.

From a obviously, I don't track Chelsea.

I don't know the inner workings of the fan base and what they feel.

But the win part of it, that's the bit I'm not 100% sure about.

If they're saying that they have to win, then historical Vabrich, they're saying that they need to change the manager when they want to win.

Are they talking about winning the Premier League or what we, as I say, what we're alluding to here?

It's a protest about results on the field, or is it the longer contract?

I don't understand personally.

Do you know?

I think that they don't like the manager, don't particularly like the way

the team used to play in a way that wasn't what the manager wanted.

And during that period, they were winning a lot of games.

And he kept saying, we need to slow down, we need to slow down, this isn't sustainable.

We need to play more rescued ball.

I heard a Chelsea fan saying, Why have we hired a manager from the championship who hasn't?

I think that's the vibe.

We want winners.

This guy isn't a winner.

I mean, he's a good manager for Chelsea's owners because the power balance there is very clearly with the owners, and you will essentially work with what we give you.

I think that's the feeling.

Whereas

a Mourinho or someone like that is going to say, This isn't what I want, give me this, and I will make you win.

Tonight, Liverpool, Newcastle,

which is going to be the Carabao Cup final as well, isn't it?

Brentford play Everton, Forest Arsenal, Spursman City, and Manchester United, Ipswich.

McGinn says, is Jim Ratcliffe working for Doge?

Yes, he'll close the staff canteen at Old Travers and replace the free lunches currently on offer with fruit.

You can't, you couldn't make it up, Barry, could you?

I mean,

they'll implement a similar move at Carrington at the training base with only players receiving lunch for free.

Non-playing staff, they're the ones that need the free lunch.

Non-playing staff will be offered soup and bread and a lump of coal, I presume.

The club believe one million pounds will be saved by ending free lunches, which is less than three weeks of Casimiro's wages.

Jim Ratcliffe, did he really stand there with a wooden spoon and a vat of soup like some sort of Dickensian overlord?

This can't be real, Barry, can it?

Well, it is real.

I mean, the Glazers must be loving this because this is all their fault.

But Jim Ratcliffe has paid handsomely for the privilege of being the public fall guy.

And

he is, you know, a billionaire is not a nice person.

There's no big shock there.

But,

you know, I have seen people try to defend this by saying, well, it's not usual for people to get free lunches, but, and that's true.

You know, most workplaces don't provide free lunches for staff.

But if you are, if it has been customary to

provide them,

an army marches on its belly, so if you take them away in some sort of really

petty cost-cutting exercise, then that is going to severely disrupt staff morale, one imagines.

And it just seems so unnecessary.

I'm sure if Jim Rathcliffe was here with us, he'd explain how it's very necessary.

I'm not clued in enough on how these things work to know.

But, you know,

we'll

spunk whatever it is, 20 million on not firing and then firing Eric and Hag, but then claw back 800 grand by

not giving staff free sandwiches or burgers.

It's so bad.

It looks so bad and petty and nasty.

Did you see David Squire's cartoon on this?

Which it has Omar Barada writing, you know, time to end these pesky leaks with a morale boosting all staff email, threatening them with the.

And then it cuts to Sky Sports News saying, Manchester United's CEO Omar Barada has warned staff they could be fired if they leak information.

And him shaking him fist, going, For God's sake, I haven't even finished typing it yet.

Why are these employees who are constantly facing the sack so disloyal?

Anyway, a little bit of Rangers.

Barry, they have placed former captain Barry Ferguson in charge of first team affairs until the end of the season following

Philippe Clement's sacking.

The Ranger lost 2-0 at home to St Mirren.

That proved to be the final straw.

They'd been knocked out by Queen's Park, hadn't they, in the Scottish Cup.

We chatted about that with Ewan

last week.

He's been there for 16 months.

They are 13 points behind Celtic in the Premiership.

Yeah, this is a decision, the one to install Barry Ferguson as interim manager, which seems to have surprised a lot of people.

No one more so than Barry Ferguson.

I think was as shocked as anyone to be offered the job.

So it's all quite baffling.

Rangers gave Philippe Clement

a contract extension just before the league started, which means they now have to pay him more than they would have if they hadn't done that.

There was no, he didn't really deserve one, I would argue.

And

now now he

is gone, and Barry Ferguson, club legend, who won, I think, 15 honours with Rangers, including five league titles, he was working as a club ambassador, doing a little bit of punditry and, you know, a column for the Daily Record.

And he's been offered the job for the next three months, so he'll have a minimum of 15 games.

And his coaching staff, there's a very expendables vibe about it.

So it's him, Neil McCann, Billy Dodds, and Alan McGregor, sort of jobs for the boys, it looks like on the face of it.

And Ferguson comes into this role on the back of a extremely

undistinguished

managerial CV where he had a...

a spelling interim charge of Blackpool.

He was Clyde, Kelty Hearts, and his last job was with League One side Aloha, which didn't end particularly well.

So

I've heard Ali McCoy's talking about it, and he seems very reluctant to offer an opinion.

I don't know if there's...

He's probably the set piece coach, isn't he?

Given who they've hired.

I don't know if there's some beef between him and Ferguson.

I doubt anyone could have beef with Ali McCoy's.

He's too nice.

But

yeah, he just seems bewildered by it all and

hasn't really said

beyond saying I am bewildered by it all, he hasn't really offered an opinion.

So, their only chance of winning a trophy this season is the Europa League.

They're in the last 16, the Goff Fenerbache.

I suppose it's Ferguson's chance to make a name for himself, but he hasn't in previous jobs where there was probably far less pressure.

Bonnie?

What I really like about this is it produced some of the best quotes of the season from Patrick Stewart,

who is a no-nonsense CEO.

He's not really swayed by popular opinion.

This is literally a week ago.

I am not here to make popular decisions and get quick wins.

We have been underperforming for several seasons now, and that's not down to a manager.

We have changed the manager, he has not made a difference.

Until we sort the root causes, it's like trying to fix a broken house and starting with the roof.

We've got to stick to the plan.

And then a week later, he's appointed, he's sacked, he sacked the plan and appointed a club legend with a win record of 27% at his last club.

It may well be fine.

I mean, I'm quite a fan of getting the club legend in for a bit, and it will really g up the atmosphere.

It's a great place to watch football, and I'm sure to play it as well.

And

it will be fun.

But it's amazing that he's had to make that 180-degree switch in a week.

Like, when you're saying these things,

you must realise that the guy you're talking about, we've got to give credit to Philippe and the team.

Like, you're going to sack him in four days' time and appoint Barry Ferguson.

You wonder what happened in the interim.

That's where the real movie is here.

What happened between

St.

Mirren, I think, is what happened.

Yeah.

And also, I mean, but these are the teams you play.

Is leading to St.

Mirren really this record scratch game?

Queen's Park

should have been the record scratch, I suppose.

It's also worth noting that Rangers are probably going to be the subject of a takeover by the 49ers group, who own Leeds and obviously the San Francisco 49ers.

So, McCoy's did reckon that

they might have said to

the boss, you know, get rid of Clement, save us from, you know, looking cruel.

And then we'll get doing it when we come in.

And then they'll bring in Joe Montana as the interim manager.

Anyway, that'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll begin with Mo Salah and the Ballon d'Or.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So, yeah, let's talk about Mo Salah and the ballon d'Or and Jamie Carragher, who was on the sky talking about Salah's chances of winning the ballon d'Or, and he said he had less chance of winning because Egypt don't compete in major tournaments, i.e., they don't compete in the Euros or the World Cup.

Micah Richards and Daniel Sturridge pulled him up on it and pointed out that AFCON, which Salah's got to two finals in with Egypt, is a major tournament.

And Kerriga kind of laughed at them.

He went on to Twitter to say it is not disrespectful if I feel the World Cup, Euros, COP America are better tournaments.

It's just my opinion when I watch them.

Saying it wasn't a major tournament was clumsy, but I think most people watching could understand the point I was trying to make.

I don't normally respond to things on here with posts like this, but I decided to tweet in the end after seeing so many phonies jump on the bandwagon and play into the gallery when they knew what I meant.

Good luck, Mo, you little dancer.

Nadem, I guess you are best placed to talk about this.

You were born in Nigeria.

You've covered the tournament.

You could have played for Nigeria in 08 and you turned down the opportunity and subsequently regretted that decision.

Is that right?

Yeah, that's basically set me up there.

What more do I need to say?

No.

In all reality.

Do you think you would have won the ballon d'Or?

Unfortunately, if I played for Nigeria, you know, with a population of over 200 million just in Nigeria and even more around the world and we would have won it you know historically unfortunately because it's only AFCON I don't think I would have been able to win Ballon d'Or but it's a shame that you know your continental championships don't matter I think what he's what he what he's saying there is kind of what lots of people think where there's when you're in Europe especially like in England in particular there's this real focus on the Premier League this big focus on say European football and believing that it is the center of the universe and while you're here I'm sure that it is but even there he mentions um the copper america i bet he didn't even watch copper america i bet he couldn't tell you what channel it was on.

Bet he couldn't tell you the nature of the teams who've qualified, the history of the tournament itself.

But he would probably say, oh, you know, Messi and Brazil.

Like, he doesn't have a feel for that either.

But I think to disrespect it in that manner is just, I don't know, it's disappointing.

But it's it's not a surprise for lots of people from other parts of the world who, you know, take real pride in watching their sort of nations like continental championships in the same way.

You know, speaking, I played with a guy called Mass Moelongo and he's from Australia.

He's he's won the, I think he maybe got player of the tournament as Australia won the like Asian Asian Cup or whatever it was called yeah and that's a huge thing for him that's a huge thing for that region they all compete and they're desperate to win it so I think for him to say oh you know he's not gonna it's not gonna help like thankfully all I will say is this he's not voting you know and long may that be the case because he's basically talked himself up that out that position because all the people that should vote These things do matter.

If you are the best player on your continent or your team's one of the best nations on the continent, just because some fella from, I don't know where he's from, says, oh, it doesn't matter and he prefers other tournaments,

I think it's miseducating the audience.

Because if he's there, you get the feeling he's supposed to be educating the people that are watching.

But instead, sometimes I think one or two people make people dumber the more you sort of listen to what they're saying.

And it misses the point.

Salah's hugely proud to be Egyptian, hugely proud to try and go and compete in that competition to be successful, to make history for his nation.

And if he comes to the end of the season, there's discussion about Ballon d'Or.

If he's won that and he's been one of the best players, absolutely, it should make a difference.

Wherever you are, that should make a difference.

And if you say otherwise, then, you know, just try and really think to yourself, like, why do you believe that?

And it's probably because of where you're located.

Yeah.

But

is there a chance that it,

however clumsily he said it, is there a chance that

I was looking at who votes for Ballon d'Or, right?

It's an international jury of specialized journalists with one representative per country from the top 100 in the latest FIFA rankings.

And there are 22 African sides in the men's top 100.

So it is possible that that what he said is is true even if it shouldn't be the case.

Do you see what I mean?

Or is that or am I reinforcing what he's saying?

Because you're right.

I don't watch Afcon because the Premier League's on.

I don't watch Copy America because the Euro's on and then I want to go to sleep.

I don't want to watch Copy America.

It doesn't mean I don't value those tournaments.

They're just not in my zone, you know?

Yeah.

I think how I would maybe describe it then is that maybe how a nation does in their continental championships doesn't matter to the definer who the ballon d'Or is anyway?

Because before Messi won his last ballon d'Or, he'd won a few before that, and Argentina had never won the World Cup, I believe.

I think there were years where Argentina didn't win Copper America as well.

So, if you want to make the case that the continental championships don't necessarily have the swaying power, then great.

But to demean one and almost make it seem like it matters more so for other people, but then you can't provide the evidence.

I think that, in my opinion, misses the point, if you get what I'm saying.

And also, I guess that it's said within a context of like endemic

anti-African racism within football, right?

Like even referring to Africa as like one placement is so enormous, right?

And so totally diverse and all those classic tropes about African footballers.

Yeah, for sure.

I think in in my mind, like I know some people get really uptight about it and say, Yeah, but Afghan doesn't matter.

It's fine, it doesn't matter to you because you're not from Africa.

But maybe someone from Africa doesn't care about the European championships because they're not from Europe.

I've never thought about it that way, but instead it's almost like the insistence that because you're here, this has to be seen as the most important thing.

Like for those Euros that happened, whenever it was, like, all the nations involved, it's massive for them.

For some people around the world, it may be like one player or another, like, they're looking for that player.

They're not watching the championships in that manner.

And as a consequence, you know, when it comes down to, say, Afghan, like, some people tune in to watch Adam Ola Luckman, you know, the voted the best player in Africa.

It might be Salah, it might be Mane.

These are icons of like the war of the world game itself, what who are still playing in Europe.

So, again, like, as I say, some people get really uptight about it, but there's not an expectation that you should care about the Afcon, but there shouldn't be an expectation that someone from Africa should care about the Euros in the same way that you do.

It's your own personal perspective.

But again, to demean something that you don't really know and feel, I think that is the problem, especially when you have a microphone on a platform that big.

Because go and ask Mossalah what he thinks about Afghan.

And I tell you one thing.

Mo Salah probably is probably...

almost definitely feels more pride playing for Egypt than he does playing for Liverpool.

Because at some stage, he'll leave Liverpool, but forever he will be an an Egyptian, he'll be mostly of Egypt.

And if he was to say that, people say, oh, it's a ridiculous thought, but that's who he is.

So for him to be spoken about in that manner by somebody who, you know, comes through the same club as him.

Honestly,

I'm trying not to say too much here, but it's ridiculous, to be honest.

I think it's interesting what you said there about the same club.

I think Carragher really will be surprised by the reaction to this.

I think,

because I think what he thought he was doing was playing to the gallery.

I think he thought he was saying that he was talking to Liverpool fans there by saying, look, Mo is disadvantaged by playing in this competition, our lad.

And he said the quiet thing out loud.

In saying that, he expressed his contempt for AFCOM.

And I really think that the moment Carragher realized he'd made this mistake was the moment to think about why he said that and to kind of say, oh, I apologise, I hadn't really thought that through.

Let's talk about refereeing across Europe.

We talk about referees a lot.

We sometimes talk about bad decisions.

Interestingly, on the last poll, we talked about bad VAR decisions, and we didn't talk about the good ones.

And we were picked up on it by a couple of people, like the Louis Gelli, sending off, for example.

But look, in France, the referees union announced on Sunday they're taking legal action in response to comments made by the Marseille President Pablo Longoria after their 3-0 defeat to Auxerre.

He was speaking about a referee called Jeremy Stintat, and he said, This is corruption, I've never seen anything like it.

You can write it down.

Pablo Longoria says it's corruption.

Everything has been organized.

It's planned.

It's rigged.

It's a shitty championship.

If Olympic Marseille has a proposal for the Super League, we'll leave straight away.

He later clarified his comment, saying corruption means something different in Spanish to French.

But

it doesn't.

I think.

Meanwhile, in Turkey, a Slovenian referee called Slavko Vincic

has been appointed for the Istanbul Derby between Galatasara and Fenabace.

He was drafted in

for the game on Monday after a request from both clubs

because they decided that no Turkish referee could possibly referee this game.

A team called Adana Demispor walked off the pitch during their match with Galatasarai earlier this month in protest at a penalty awarded against them.

The league was suspended a couple of years ago, 2023, after a referee was punched on the pitch by the president of Asside after his team conceded a 97th minute equalizer.

And of course, we've got Real Madrid, who earlier this month sent a formal letter of complaint to the Spanish FA and Spain's High Council for Sports, claiming that officials, including the AR, are biased against them, quote, rigged and completely discredited.

The letter said decisions against Real Madrid have reached a level of manipulation and adulteration of the competition that can no longer be ignored.

Recently, Valverde had to apologise on social media media for not criticising the officials during a press conference.

I don't know, Barry, what is to be done about, I mean, like, is it incumbent on sensible people to just not talk about decisions at all?

You know, like, like, do we feed the beast a tiny bit?

Because it's obviously, I'm not saying we are responsible for this mad conspiracy theorist crossing Europe, but it is ridiculous.

Yeah, referees shouldn't be the story, and they increasingly are.

There are

fans of all clubs who think referees are corrupt.

I don't think they are.

I just think some of them have bad days or make bad decisions, which is

understandable because they do a very difficult job.

We do try not to focus too much on decisions and that, but they invariably crop up.

What I find doesn't help certainly is these shows that Sky and TNT have,

Skye in particular, every Monday morning, where they have like it, I think it's a two-hour section with Dermot Gallagher and a couple of ex-players who pick over every the nitty-gritty of every single controversial decision made over the weekend and decides whether they were the ref was right or wrong and that obviously feeds the beast.

We had the offside goal in the Crystal Palace match last night, which

yeah, Villa scored a goal that was ruled out for offside and the margin, it was ruled out by VAR and the margin was so

tiny as to be, you know, it was basically

that the on-field officials had decided it wasn't offside.

Then the guys in the VAR room decided it was.

Neither

opinion was particularly right or wrong.

I don't think you can literally, you can't judge with human eyes something that small but that again feeds the beast uh when it's just right we will take their opinion over our opinion and yeah i i find talking about referees very tiresome but some people love it and some people

are happy to overlook their own team's shortcomings by blaming all their misfortune on referees and

it is certainly a job I would run a million miles from doing and I take my hat off to anyone at any level who wants to referee football.

Yeah, I would totally agree and it's a very, very tough job and me having retired now, like I listen, I crossed the line quite a few times as a player is because you get so caught up in particular moments when you feel like something is going against you and I think that's part of the difficulty of this situation in itself because most people, if you support a football club, then that's your focus.

So you'll always know all the decisions that go against your club.

But in reality, to know whether there's corruption, you'd need to know every decision happening everywhere to be able to get a feel for it to show that this is only happening to you.

But why would you do that when you only love your football club?

So you end up being in this ridiculous position.

Oh, there's corruption against us.

How many fan bases, if you were to run a poll now, would say that they've been lucky this year with decisions, as opposed to every fan base saying, you know, we probably deserve more.

And if something good happens, says, oh, we've deserved that.

We've had so much bad luck this year.

Listen, if everybody's having bad luck, then maybe that's just the nature of football itself.

Maybe the people who are playing and the people who are refereeing, like they can't be perfect and bad things will happen to you.

But as you said at the start of this, you know, we mentioned or you mentioned the fact that VR decisions are wrong.

And I've been somebody who's been saying there are lots of ones which are correct, which we just move on from.

That's the balance of it all.

But in terms of media, especially, as you said, with Sky and so on.

When you're debating all those big decisions all the time, that's step one.

Step two is then all of a sudden your team are saying, well, we've been on this show six times now and these decisions have all been wrong.

You can see that this referee has something against us.

And that feel because it's part of your identity, you can't really throw it away and say it doesn't matter.

So, then all of a sudden, all the logic goes out the window.

But in reality, like some referees are better than others, some players are better than others.

And last time I checked, your striker that's missed all these chances, it's not done because he's corrupt, it's been because he's just missed chances, you know.

So, think about things in a more open mind, I believe.

And you won't necessarily be at ease, but you won't believe everyone's out to get you because that level of like corruption and scandal, in reality, it's nigh on impossible.

It really really isn't.

So, just I don't know, just be involved, emotionally involved, but don't think everyone's out to get you because it's definitely not the case.

Feels Barney, like it sort of mirrors, you know, this conspiracy theories that you know are now sort of filling society.

Should we talk about the world?

Yeah, should we say, should we tie

this into a

much wider problem in the world, wider forces?

Should we talk about Trump?

Should we talk about the digital hive mode?

Should we talk?

Should we talk?

No, we've done that.

We've talked about the us talking about the

world is is is a part of it

it's the world the world has got a conspiracy against more importantly

more importantly and actually on a serious note like no one will become a referee right and as you know so many referees are now threatened or their families are threatened or you know the threats on social media etc but that is the danger if if if clubs especially clubs you know, come out and start saying, you know, this is against us, that they have a responsibility.

I mean, I never understood why anyone became a referee in the first place, even if everyone was really nice to you.

It seems like a weird thing to do.

Referees always seem to be quite reluctant back in the day, as though they really didn't want to be doing this.

And

I mean, obviously, it's a good career.

And if you love the game, that's good.

Like everyone,

I've seen really horrendous things in grassroots football.

Like, just,

I mean, we could talk about the world here.

People are

just deranged.

and this sport, as Seth Blatter said, football is madness and that goes right down to the grassroots.

Ed Aarons, who's

one of our reporters, he covers Arsenal mainly, told me that

he'd basically given up coaching at grassroots now because he was chased out of a car park recently by

some people who'd waited for him, three guys, just because he'd been refereeing and they didn't like what he'd done in an under-12s game.

There's a massive problem with the way people respond to this and it

I don't obviously modelling proper behavior at the top level would help.

Obviously that would really help.

The way that managers respond in the moment

I really don't think does help.

You know it's it's people there's no doubt there's a kind of mimesis of what you see all the time is what you're going to become.

And there's zero respect for referees who do make mistakes and I don't think of really particularly competent and something needs to be done about how they're recruited and about how the PGMOL works.

But that's a separate issue.

They're honest.

They're not corrupt.

I think often there's just not enough content in football and there's so much attention.

It's peeled eyeball constant 24-hour stuff.

And sometimes you just lose a game of football as Nedham was saying.

We have to find content.

So this is what we talk about.

And it's such an easy win for broadcasters.

But it's created a really disgusting, grotesque culture, which, as you say, Max goes right down to the bottom of 16-year-old kids being abused on a Sunday morning, which is not good.

Football is brutal and it needs to moderate that.

Yeah, what I would say, having been to a few stadiums, getting there early, like I'm actually friends with an assistant referee in a Premier League, and I speak to them about certain issues and stuff that they feel.

But I've also been in stadiums when I see them like coming out to do their warm-up and them going into arena, that's exciting for them.

So when we think about why they want to do it, it's a chance to be involved in some of the biggest games in football and i think that's a big inspiration instead of say the grassroots stuff and being abused like they could picture themselves as i say being at wembley you know for a cup final that means something to them you know them getting medals and so on and also the other side i think most people um who've listened to me speak on a pod or speak somewhere know that like i'm quite a sensible person and quite calm and quite chilled but as barney said like football can just it can turn you mad and it's so many little it's so many little things that can happen within a game which start to turn over turnover because now you're competing you know it's not just friendly it's not just calm and i think for players and stuff and managers you're in an arena with thousands of people potentially with wider context around everything that's going on that we we'll talk today about oh what does this game mean if ange loses at home imagine being ange on the side who's getting grief from his own fans grief from everyone and he understands the wider context of things it's very hard to be very passive about things which you believe to be wrong and that's the clash really it's the clash of beliefs you on the field believe that the decision has gone against you.

The referee believes that he's made the right decision.

And to be able to just walk away and pretend it doesn't matter is one of the toughest things to do.

But what I would say, and again, I know some people won't be having this.

If a referee has had enough of a player in the Premier League, they can yellow card them to calm down or they can send them off.

At grassroots, so at some point there is a lid on things.

We can overreact to like, oh, there are three, four players around a referee.

Like we see with United against that ref 30 years ago or whatever it was.

But that doesn't really happen that often.

And the respect in some ways comes when a referee knows the emotion of a game and does everything they can to temper it.

But unfortunately, at grassroots level, a referee can trail someone to calm down.

But before you know it, they'll be running through a car park, as you've said.

And when you talk about some of those other countries and so on, as mad as this may sound, I think the Premier League overall...

and I'd say football in England overall, handles it far better than other places do because of the environment that we have here at times, like people do go over the top, but they're always suitably punished and people know that they can't do that.

And I think referees overall in England, I'd say they'd feel a lot safer than a referee that would try and maybe referee in an Istanbul derby, for example, in the Turkish league.

But maybe I'm wrong.

Ewan says, I saw Barney and Wilson having a coffee on Kensington High Street this evening and was starstruck.

Obviously, didn't want to ruin the meet your heroes moment by actually speaking to them, but was curious what they were talking about together.

Witches, curses, R9 versus the press, just ange.

What was it?

I think he means Renette R7, doesn't he?

Against the press.

Yeah, Yeah, I mean, we were in a place called the French Baguette, which I just thought was an amusing name.

I had a small apple tart.

Wilson had coffee, no snack.

He's very disciplined and rigid like that.

He is tight.

He's tight.

He won't pay for

expensive snacks and Kensington coffee emporium.

He's probably right on that.

And if I were to tell you what we were talking about, it would be a terrible thing, so I'm not going to do that.

Okay, hi guys, says Robbie.

Huge fan of the show, haven't missed an episode in five years.

Just got back from Munich on a three-day stag do.

And wanted to let you know that on the final night, one of the lads followed in Barry's footsteps by following through in public.

Fortunately, it was only a small volume, but nonetheless, he still had to dump his boxes in McDonald's toilets and go commando to get home.

I hope Barry feels happy knowing he's a trendsetter and that others have followed in his footsteps.

I feel nothing.

Feel nothing.

I take no pleasure in anyone's misfortune in that regard.

All right, well that'll do for today.

But thank you, Robbie.

I enjoyed that email.

And thanks everybody.

Thanks for coming on.

Thanks Nadam.

Thank you very much.

Thanks Barney.

Cheers everyone.

Thanks Baz.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Tommy Stewart and Jesse Howard.

Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

We'll be back tomorrow.

This is The Guardian.