A ludicrous night in Lisbon and Liverpool stay perfect – Football Weekly

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Hello.

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, the penultimate week of the Giant Champions League and a couple of brilliant games, an utterly ridiculous one in Lisbon as Barca come back from 4-2 down to beat Benfica 5-4.

Rafinha running through an injury time as the Benfica players scream for a penalty.

There would be no Wilson paradox.

Before that, some hilarious goals.

Vojek Chesny at the heart of a lot of it.

Sid was there and we'll try and explain it in a second.

In Madrid, some high-quality Simeoni staff losing and down to 10 men against Labour Cousin.

Before it came 10 aside, and Julian Alvarez got his second and a winner.

Elsewhere, Liverpool win another football match, a nice finish from Mo Sala and a deflected one from Harvey Elliott, enough to defeat Lille while a flat performance from Aston Villa in a flat atmosphere in Monaco.

Also, today, Dortmund sacked their manager.

Lars reports live from Galatasarai.

We'll round up some championship action.

Chelsea's win on Monday night, some transfer window stuff.

Your questions?

And that's today's Guardian Football Week clean.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hi, Max.

In Bruges, Archie Rin Tutt.

You really got the pick of the games last night, didn't you?

I did.

Hi, Max.

We'll get to that.

And in Turkey, welcome to hell, Lars Sivadson, who was at Galatassarai yesterday.

Hello, Max.

Rocco says, how are you guys going to spend the entire podcast talking about Spurs and Man United instead of the actual teams playing?

Well, we won't, fortunately.

Let's start in Lisbon then.

Benfica 4 Barsa 5.

Before I talked to this slot, I caught up with Sid Lowe, who was at Lisbon Airport very early in the morning with a cup of tea that he hadn't ordered.

And this is our chat.

Hey, Sid, thanks for coming on.

What a ridiculous in the torrential rain, absolutely ridiculous football match.

Yeah,

I mean it might be the silliest game I've ever seen.

A game where a guy gets attributed, doesn't win, where there's a known goal, where there's probably the

yeah, I mean, it's not the first time he's seen a goal where a goalkeeper boots the ball against a forward and it rebounds and goes in.

But I think it might be the first time where he's seen a goal where a goalkeeper boots the ball against a forward.

The forward's 15 yards away and it still manages to rebound off his head and finds the the net from like 25 yards.

A goal in the 95th minute at a time when it really could have been a penalty at the other end and it goes straight up and fast on a win it.

Just a really, really wild game and a lot of fun.

It also kicks off nicely in the tunnel, which of course is the way that you want all really good games to end.

Yeah, absolutely.

Just on that, it's not quite the Wilson paradox, I don't think, of, you know, there's a VAR check at the other end and then someone goes and scores.

But I couldn't tell and I didn't see enough replays to know if that actually might have been a penalty, or like how robbed Ben Fica were in that moment.

Well, Ben Fica certainly felt robbed,

and hence some of the confrontations in the tunnel.

There was someone from the club telling the referee basically as he came off the pitch that, oh, it's really easy when it's Barcelona, isn't it?

Really obvious which way you're going to give it.

There were some confrontations, not so much actually between players as between

kind of that sort of surrounding support cast of staff and so on, with Rafinha confronting people from Benfica as he came down the tunnel later on.

And to be fair to Rafinho, I probably should say this because if I say Rafinha confronts, it sounds like he's the instigator.

From what I saw at least, there was complete opposite.

It was him kind of saying, you know, show some respect, don't need to be like this.

I didn't see it clearly live.

When I saw the first replay, I thought it wasn't a penalty.

When I saw the second replay about an hour later, I thought it was.

I must admit, I did think it was.

And, you know,

inevitably, what happens is, of course, the result conditions everything.

And so you get this result where Barton wins 5-4.

And of course, all the talk was about how Varsa kept going to the end, which is true.

I'm not going to question that.

But of course, the fact that they score that winning goal is because Benfica are going for it to the end.

Benfica are chasing the winner.

And Benfica have almost their entire team in the Barcelona Council area when they break away.

And

if it's deliberate and not just to hoop up the pitch, I think it's an extraordinary path from Fran Tomanis that releases Rafino.

I don't know if it's deliberate, to be honest, but if it is deliberate, it's extraordinary.

And Rafini takes it so well.

And it's something that actually

I've been thinking about quite a lot recently with Rafini.

And this has been his best season.

It's been absolutely phenomenal.

I think that's 31.

I'm going to use that horrible phrase now.

I'm actually going to have to forgive me.

It's 31 goal involvements this year for Rafini.

Wow, yeah, okay.

Between goals and assists.

I think I'm right.

I think we have to accept it.

I think we have to accept that phrase.

I don't like it either.

I think it might be 21 goals and 10 assists, or maybe it's it's 20 goals and 11 assists.

But anyway,

goals and assists added together is 31, I think.

But what's really striking for me is one of the reasons why he's been so good this year, I think, just been a beneficiary of the shift in Barcelona's play, the fact that they go a little bit more direct, they go beyond teams into the space, and he runs into it.

And so...

In a way, you can look at it, for example, you can look at last night and say, well, maybe it's that little bit easier to score when you're not playing against a packed defense, when it is running into space and you're all running clear and the chances are clearer.

But one of the things that really strikes me about Rafinha is how precise he is on the run.

You know, when he's done 15, 20, I don't know how many it'll be, kind of high-intensity sprints in a game, and you send him one in the 95th minute, and he's banging away up the line.

And of course, he's going full pelt.

And then the sort of the calmness and the technical quality at that speed and after that many repeated efforts, I think has been the thing that's really stood out for me this year.

He's been absolutely brilliant, and again, he was the match winner last night.

Although, if I had to pick out a player, obviously

apart from Pavlides, it would be Pedri who's had a fantastic season as Ron.

I mean, you mentioned the ridiculousness of the goals.

Like, Danny Baker could get a whole VHS out of this game, couldn't he?

And

actually, the Rafinha header, which is ridiculous, might not be the funniest goal of the game.

Because when Shesney bombs out and takes out Balde,

it's a brilliant foul, isn't it?

It's like a hilarious foul, and then Pavlides can just roll it in.

It's a brilliant moment.

It's a direct red, if it had been an opponent.

I mean,

and I think it's baffling as well because Barcelona play a very, very high defensive line, and because of that, and that was very much a feature of last night, and Benfica were very, very clearly aware of that, that you draw them to the halfway line, or they'll go to the halfway line anyway, and then you can go through them.

And in particular, Benfica seems to be keen to kind of pull them up on the left and then go through them on the right, or vice versa.

But

when you play that high line, then obviously, in theory, the goalkeeper has to do quite a lot of coming off his line, sweeping up behind to make sure that big space is covered by the keeper.

But on the one in which he comes out yesterday and gifts him a goal, there's absolutely no need to go there.

None whatsoever.

Valdez got it completely under control.

It's not a chance.

It's not a goalkeeper running out to a forward.

It's a goalkeeper running out to his own defender and booting him up in the air.

It's absolutely absurd.

The backstory to this, by the way, is that, and I'm sure most people know this now, obviously Shesney was signed out of retirement because of the usual tomato handle Degum.

The assumption I think we all had was that he was signed to be first choice because there was some doubts about Ignaki Penya, where he's the backup goalkeeper.

Actually, Ignaki Penya has played almost all the way through since the signing of Czesny.

Czesny was retired in Marbea, sitting on the beach, taking it easy.

He gets brought into the team.

This was the first time that Czesny has started in the Champions League.

He hasn't started a game in La Liga yet.

He's played one cup of row game, which traditionally is where you play your second choice goalkeeper, and the two games in the Spanish Super Cup.

Now, he played the two games in the Spanish Super Cup because Inyaki Penya was late to a team meeting and Hansie Flick said, no we have to have these rules.

We have to be clear about this and if you don't turn up you lose your place.

So he lost his place.

Shesby played those two games and of course the argument is that he played those two games, played well and has kept his place.

Now there's a couple of reasons why I don't entirely buy that.

One of them is that actually when they went back to play the league game Inyaki Penya played anyway.

And the other is I'm not entirely convinced he did play that well in the Super Cup.

And in the the Super Cup he got sent off in that as well for the same sort of thing, coming out of the area and taking out a player.

And yesterday was just kind of an almost bizarrely bad performance, Ronnie.

I mean, you know, it can happen,

but it's not just this mistake.

It was this kind of the whole thing for me.

He's off his line too quick for the penalty.

What it's worth, I'm not 100% sure how much contact he gets, but it is because of him that the forward, can't remember which one it is now, is leaping high into the air to avoid him.

But he was a big, big part of the whole sort of comedy show yesterday.

Yeah, you know, it looked very much like he was a goalkeeper who retired a few months ago, and he is.

Just quickly before I let you go, Sid, and get a cup of tea that you like the taste of.

Yeah, this one's horrible.

I mean, really,

it's a really bad mistake.

I'm not going to name the brand for obvious reasons, but I am one of those people that swallows the big chain brand coffee shop because it's one of the few places, I was going to say in Spain, obviously I'm in Portugal, but it's still Iberia but a few places you can get a decent cup of tea and the reason you can get a decent cup of tea is because basic you make it yourself they give you a cup of the hot water and tea bags and here's the milk on the side unfortunately they've put the wrong tea bags in and it's creerian

anyway sorry that was uh that was fascinating wasn't it very very popular no that's okay i people like that stuff just a quick one on julian alvarez who scored two obviously went out the game but i just wonder how well he is playing because there's a lot of talk that city shouldn't have let him go given their struggles and i just wondered is what we saw yesterday two really brilliant finishes and a sort of match-winning performance,

a microcosm of what he's been doing this season or not?

Yeah, it is.

Certainly in the last few weeks,

actually, last few weeks is probably a bit unfair on him, I would say, the last month and a half, maybe even slightly more.

I must confess, I was one of those people that wasn't sure if this was a guy that you spend 80 million euros on.

You'll have seen much more of him playing in England than I did, but there was a sense that he could do some of those things that Simeone wants the forward to do, which is obviously chase PK down, lay off the front, and not always be the centre forward, but be the centre board if he needed to, who would finish cleanly when he got chances.

And the first few weeks it wasn't quite happening, and it wasn't happening for him, and it wasn't happening for Athleticomadrid.

Then, of course, they went on that run of 15 consecutive wins.

They then lost at the weekend against Leganes.

He actually hit the bar with the best chance in that game and then had another good chance for which he possibly should have scored as well.

But

in the last six, seven weeks, he's been very, very, very good indeed.

And I think he's really important to the way that Athletico and Madrid are kind of evolving into something that's a little bit more modern than they used to be, but also with some of those characteristics that we all associate with Silione.

At Lovely Stuff, Sid, you may go and get another cup of tea from Starbucks.

Have a lovely time.

You've named them.

I'm not going there, Max.

Not after they did this to me.

I might have them adopted.

I'm going up instead to go from one evening corporate Beckham off to another.

Well, sitting in a McCafe at 6.30am is good divorced dad vibes.

Living the dreams.

I wish you well.

Cheers, mate.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sid.

We'll get back to Julian Alvarez in a second.

But the game was so good that I think it's worth

the four of us talking about it a bit more.

And we have covered all the hilarity, Barry, but...

I'm happy to do it again because there was so much comedy in this game.

I don't want

exaggeration to say it's one of the best games I've ever seen.

Certainly one of the best Champions League group games I've ever seen.

It had absolutely everything.

Comedy goalkeeping, comedy goals, an amazing comeback, a late winner, and then even later drama.

And then more drama after that when

Benfica's players got a...

a Phil Brown-esque ticking off in the middle of the pitch after the game.

It was sensational.

Absolutely sensational.

Some brilliant performances.

Pavlidis, obviously, who scored two goals for Greece against England when Greece beat them at Wembley last year.

He got a hat-trick.

Alvaro Carreras was superb for Benfica.

I thought, despite giving away a penalty,

he's a young...

young wing back manchester united sold to them on the cheap during the summer i think for four or five million quid uh

i think they might like to try and get him back.

And yeah, just massively, massively entertaining.

Obviously, I haven't heard what you said to Sid yet,

but I'm sure he's covered all the bases.

Oh, absolutely.

And we did cover the Rafinha head of the balls.

But it's so ridiculous.

I mean, it's so ridiculous.

It's so funny, and it is one of those things.

I mean, this is bad podding, but you have to see it.

Like, we can describe it.

But in the end, you have to really see it because it's one of those things that your player gets hit by the ball and it goes goes in.

But he's so far away and it's so that the trajectory is so

It's like it's one of those things it'd be incredibly difficult to pull off if you tried it like if you tell the goalkeeper I went there's a fellow over there I want you to just really hit a laser just straight into his face so it bounces back.

It wouldn't be possible to do it like it is one of those sometimes the commentators say you couldn't script this but very often of course that is in situations you absolutely could script like stunning comebacks and stuff this is why you absolutely could not have scripted you could not like if you'd have written down he's gonna he's gonna he's gonna kick one off the off the winger's head with such force and and velocity like it was it would sound ridiculous I mean that would be rejected by any sort of script reader anywhere it was a fully ridiculous goal and yeah I'm a huge fan of it yeah and also the fact that it you know the perfect place to head the ball and I haven't watched it back enough times but it feels like It didn't hit him just in the face.

It was like, that's where Rafinia, if he'd wanted, if he had known, had been told this is what's about to happen, that's where he would have tried to angle his head as well.

Whole thing is ludicrous.

We've talked a lot, we said, about Shesney and just having a bad old day at the office, you know, carving, kicking his own player into the ocean.

So funny, isn't it?

Is this, how would Hansie Flick look at this one, Archie?

I think that the football that he plays.

is born to create this kind of chaos.

When you push this aggressively up the pitch, you're saying that if you're going to break my team down, then you're going to have to do it quickly.

And actually, the first goal of the night really struck me in that it took five seconds from this crossfield ball inside Benfica's own half till the ball then went into the Barcelona net for Pavlidis' first because it was a first-time cross and a first-time finish from Pavlidis.

And that for me shows the nature of the speed at which you need to do things against Barcelona to score, except that Barcelona can do things at exceptional speed as well, as was shown by the very last goal of the night.

The fact that what Rafinha does there is only the second most impressive thing that he does of the evening because of the header, which is just number one still, but that he has the wheels to do that.

90 plus five, where sometimes when you're watching players, I'm like, is he on fast forward?

Am I watching this at the right pace?

Because

it's a dynamite pace.

and then to come up with that finish, it was beautifully chaotic.

The whole affair loved it.

Five stars.

So, Athleti beat Labour Coos in the other excellent game, um, and a brilliant comeback from Athleti.

And, Lars, it felt so simeone-like this game.

In fact, uh, you know, um, uh, Hopkin likes to curl one on Twitter just saying athleti labor coos in his glorious chaos.

This is about 15 minutes ago.

Both teams are down to 10 men, they're all flying into tackles like they're hungover and playing on a park.

Unreal.

It was great entertainment.

I think our correspondent there must know some pretty like guys who are very physically intense and hungover.

That's the only thing I say.

I mean, really,

I tend to want to lie down and take a nap.

I mean, I don't tend to like, anyway, people are different.

No, I just thought this was very old school simione, which old school Atleti Simiones

from back in the day, before they spent a lot of money and when half their players looked like Goya paintings, you know, this is this kind of, it was that level of simiones.

And we have sort of

said, I mean, obviously they're having a very good season, but there are times when you think that they're not quite that team anymore.

They are a little bit more attacking and their defenders are maybe not as strong as as they once were.

But you do have the occasional reminder like this game that that side of the the team is very much still in them.

And and and I kind of felt like Levakusen kind of fell into the trap here of getting lured into exactly the type of game that Atleti wanted to make it.

Atleti, like you say, flying into into everything and arguing about it.

It's amazing that they argued about the red card, which is hilarious because

it's such a bad tackle and

it gets varied.

And you know,

everyone has seen this.

There's no point arguing.

They've seen the video, you know, but they still make it so niggly and yappy.

And it must be intensely annoying to come up against.

But that is part of the magic of this group, I guess.

Just kind of a side note.

The sort of

Simone sprint, the patented Simeona sprint to join the celebration.

The guy's like 54 years old.

I mean, he's got a pretty good...

To tell you what, he covers that ground pretty quickly.

I mean, there are footballers, I think, who are not quite as quick across the grass when they're.

And he's in slippy shoes as well, isn't he?

I mean, I watched, I hopefully will get to it later, but I watched Andrei Yarmolenko play football in the flesh last night.

And I tell you, he could not.

Yarmolenko could not make that sprint at the speed that he scored two goals.

I mean, it's a wonderful thing to see, but he definitely can't make that sprint at the pace that Diego Simeone does.

So I do wonder about what his exercise routine is.

In my mind, Simeone on this time off, that is what, that's his thing.

He does the sprint the exact distance from the technical area to behind the goal.

He kind of really like laser-focused on that distance so he can still join into those moments, is my theory.

His energy, when he sprints, kind of reminds me of when Mr.

Burns says, release the hounds.

And then just the way that he tears off.

Even in those celebrations, I was kind of watching it being like, wow, look, the athletic.

Hang on.

How's Simeone there already?

Because you didn't get to see the journey after

the goal goes in.

And then you see players celebrating.

And then I see Simeone coming round the back of the players.

And I'm like, what?

This is insane.

I actually thought that

the Barrios red was a little, maybe not harsh, Barry, but sort of unlucky

in that he's, that wasn't what he was trying to do.

And then his foot just came up.

But I might be, I'm happy to be yelled at as an idiot.

I would be kind of inclined to agree with you, Max.

I think it was a red card.

I didn't think it was a particularly egregious challenge.

And I can tell by Lars's furious gesticulating that he would beg to differ.

So he's welcome to do so.

His gesticulating has got more continental since he's gone to Turkey.

I'm just saying.

Well,

I saw some challenges down here yesterday as well, to be fair, that were on the beefier sort.

Davinson Sanchez has some things to answer for.

You know what?

I don't disagree with the idea that it's slightly unlucky because he isn't trying to catch him there.

Because if he was trying to, he'd be a total lunatic.

So I do kind of understand the player will feel.

But that has to be a red card.

Like, you can't be allowed to tackle someone with a straight leg at that point.

I know what you're saying.

I know, but it sort of bounced up.

His leg sort of bounced up into that.

But yeah, can we meet halfway here and say that spiritually?

I feel slightly sympathetic for the player in that, as much as he's an Atletico Madrid player and we know what they're like, I don't think he intended for that to happen.

Nothing in the laws of the game about intent, as we all know, but yeah,

on a spiritual level, we can feel sorry for him.

There is something poetic about Atletico being a goal down and a man down after 25 minutes, then coming back to win courtesy of goals from their only two shots on target.

It's just

beautiful.

Just a quick one on Labor Kusen and Alonzo Archie.

How's that all ticking along?

So until last night, they'd won their last 11 in all competitions and

it included a victory away at Bay Munich in the DFB Cup there in similar circumstances where Manuel Neuer got sent off early in the first half and they had to play against 10 men.

Similarly to last night, they made really tough work of it in that they didn't really create a chance in the second half against Atletico last night.

And whilst they did go and win the game in Munich, Bayern had the better of the play.

And I think it shows that this team can sometimes get distracted by all the noise which is going on instead of just getting on with playing the game.

They're still an excellent team.

But I think that Chiabi Alonso will be using this as a lesson for his team, even if with this news emanating that it looks like Carlo Angelotti will leave Real Madrid at the end of the season, I would be stashing my money towards him going to Real Madrid at the end of the season.

Now, Chiabi Alonso, I think that this team is still really good.

We might just be seeing the boundaries of their excellence as well.

But yeah, they got Atleti KO'd.

Speaking of harsh red cards, I mean, Capier, who scored scored the goal, I thought that second yellow was brutal.

I just thought that that seemed really, really harsh to me.

But anyway, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin with Liverpool's victory over Lille.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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A proper football journalist, man.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Robin says, have Liverpool played anyone good yet?

They beat Leal 2-1.

And I was thinking about this, Barry.

The truth is that teams find it really hard to look good against Liverpool.

I'm not thinking necessarily of just Lille, but I was trying to think of that many games.

Because even if Liverpool didn't look amazing last night, they're just really hard to play against.

Yeah, well, they're a very good team with very good players.

And

their defence in this Champions League has been second to none.

They've only conceded two goals.

I think the goal they conceded against Lille was the first one they conceded in the Champions League in 599 minutes.

So if you can't score against a team,

they are going to be difficult to beat.

Lill did manage to score, but they didn't score enough.

And while I don't think Liverpool were anywhere near their best in this game, it was quite a comfortable win for them.

Mo Sala

did

not a huge amount, apart from score a really good goal.

So I think he becomes the first Liverpool player to score fifty in Europe.

They were against ten men for quite a lot of the game and that obviously made their task easier.

Harvey Elliott came on from the bench, had a good impact, got a pretty lucky winner and yeah, job done,

no problem.

I would say that Bayaleva Cousin would

contest the logic that playing against 10 men is easier after what happened to them last night, Baz.

It depends what angle you're coming from.

Just to say, the thing that amazes me about Liverpool's defence, I just realised that Lill's goal last night was the first one they've conceded to the Champions League since Christian Pulisic scored three minutes into the start of it.

That's an insane stat.

When,

to Robin's point, have Liverpool played anyone good yet?

like on paper Real Madrid and this Baya Levakus and team as well they're very good opponents and and the thing is they keep making very good opponents in Europe not look like that much so it's it's quite an achievement and Leal were in the top eight as well have been having a Leal went to Atletico Madrid and won in this in this season's competition.

I'm going to credit Robin that the question was ironic because we were saying it for quite a large part of the season

and then it turns out that that that yes they they can yes lots but no there is a serious point here which is that yeah they made little look ordinary but as i actually said little beat athleti away from home they beat rail madrid at home earlier in the season then they're you know empirically not a rubbish team but there's something about liverpool's ability to

take control of a game and then to not make silly mistakes when they do.

Like when they are in control of proceedings, I think Slot said something after the game about how they didn't force the pass, by which I think he means that he doesn't, you know, they're not playing like super ambitious through balls for no reason when they're in control of the game.

Like you can be patient, you can keep it.

Not in a total sort of man city 78% death by football possession type of thing, but in the sense where we don't take unnecessary risks and we let the game sort of slow down a little bit.

And that ends up maybe not looking like a thrilling spectacle, but it makes it incredibly hard for the opponent to get any kind of foothold in the game.

And I think this slightly more patient way of playing, I think it really suits Mo Sala, who is having an incredible season, but he isn't like the Mo Sala of five years ago who was sort of running around like a crazy person in the sort of Jurgen Klopp heavy metal system.

I'm not sure his body can really do that anymore, but in this slightly more controlled Liverpool, he's not being asked to do that.

And he can f save his energy for like the moments when he can make an impact.

And he's doing that so incredibly well.

So it seems seems kind of sad that it might be coming to an end because this currently set current setup is just perfect for him yeah it's because he's so muscular isn't it but it was a lovely finish a lovely through ball from curtis jones it's worth pointing out that finishing top does matter as the whole competition is seeded so if liverpool finish top they will face the lowest team who get through the playoffs although this is slightly confusing if the 24th team beat the ninth team in the playoff they inherit the ninth ranking in the whatsapp group barry you said this was really straightforward and i don't know if it is really straightforward but you

for the for the first time ever barry you you were condescending to me in a in a huge

in a huge turnaround and so i'm just wondering if if you're totally across it yeah it's exactly like you said max pretty straightforward

now now is not the time to get bogged down in the nitty-gritty of the seeding process.

I love a permutation.

I love looking up rules, as you all know, know, but I have to admit, maybe it's like the swirling chaos of Istanbul that's getting to me.

But I was like looking up this.

Is it seeded or is there a draw?

And the answer is both.

I'm like,

hang on.

What?

And then since you find it very simple, Barry, can you...

It would be good if you explained it, because I don't think I'm alone in being slightly not 100% across how it's going to work.

No, I think Max explained it perfectly, adequately.

As far as I can tell, if you come first, you will play the winner of the teams that finish 16th and 17th who play each other.

Because obviously, you wouldn't ever play the team that finished 9th.

And if the team finished 24th, beat the team as 9th, then they're the 9th ranked team.

So you never play them.

First or second, here we go.

We'll play one of 15th, 16th, 17th, or 18th.

Right.

Because 15th are...

I hadn't counted enough numbers.

Do you know what I think listeners should do?

They should wait until all the games are played and then see what the draw is and then

I've said that.

That's the problem.

Because the playoffs are like it's the let's say it's the team in 9th or 10th playing the team in 23rd or 24th.

So it's fixed, but there will also be a draw.

Love this from you, this is amazing.

You've clearly learned.

The most amazing thing about all of this is that this season's competition is really quite exciting.

Yeah, no, you're right.

It's great.

It is.

It's been really good.

I'm really, really enjoying it.

Monaco won, Villa-Barry, you on the minute-by-minute?

I think producer Joel saying there are about three interesting minutes in total in this game.

Yeah, it wasn't very good.

Very flat atmosphere, as you alluded to in

your intro.

I would expect better from rival royal fans, Prince Albert and Prince William, who were both in attendance.

Villa started badly, went behind

to a set piece.

Martinez saved superbly from a Tilo Kerr header,

but he could only parry the ball up in the air and Wilfred Single headed the follow-up into an empty net.

That was the only goal of the game.

Villa weren't good by any stretch of the imagination.

They looked pretty tired.

I didn't think they were as bad as Unai Emery seemed to think.

because he was very scathing in his post-match comments.

He said, we're being demanding with the players we have, and some are not following the plan we are doing.

And then he named the players he thought had played well.

So by a process of elimination, I have deduced.

Oh, okay.

Yes, Detective.

The players he was not happy with were Luca Dreen, brackets, Ian Mattson, who replaced him, Leon Bailey, who did not play well at all.

to be honest, hasn't been playing well for some time, Ollie Watkins, and John Duran, who was brought on with half an hour to go to play with Ollie Watkins, both of them up front.

That really didn't work.

And Unai Emery, by a process of elimination, I could also suggest Austin Mac Set Piece.

MacPhe is in the bad books because

Unai Emery said we were horrible today at set pieces

because they conceded from one and they had I think seven corners and they couldn't get the ball past the first defender on most occasions.

Didn't threaten at all.

So back in your box, Austin.

Yeah, I would say the process of elimination for finding the players was impressive.

The process of elimination to find him criticising Austin McVeigh when he said our set pieces were shite was less tricky, detective.

I would argue.

West Ham have a bid for Duran this week.

Ben Fisher writing that Villa are furious with the amount offered.

I wonder how this manifests itself.

Is it just Monchi storming around the office, kicking things, being angry?

I believe they offered 52 million.

Villa want at least 100 million.

And I think they were also quite unhappy with the timing of the bid because

John Duran strikes me as the kind of player who would have his head turned

faster than the girl in the

meme

faster than

the girl whose head spins in

the exercise.

The exorcist.

Thank you.

In Get Shorty.

Yeah, you're right.

Yes, Archie.

Did you know that because Monchi was so successful at Severe, you could get socks with his face on it?

And I only know that because I bought some of the socks and they were really nice.

Wow.

Wow.

That is, that is, I mean, that is like a mural for the Arsenal section

with the sporting director.

You know, you can't get a pair of Ashworths in Manchester.

Certainly, he wasn't there long enough.

It could be that this will sound enormously stupid in a couple of years.

It could be that John Duran is going to

flower into.

It could be that he's going to flower into one of the best number nines on the planet.

I just don't think he is.

I think he's

exciting and he's fun and he scored some great goals.

But I also just think he scored some really improbable goals.

And I don't think that's going to keep happening.

Again, i i do profoundly apologize for being that guy but like he's overperforming form of xg right he is o he is overperforming his xg by a lot west ham is probably the best place for him then

because

where's where strikers go to die if you have a forward who's kind of

outperforming his numbers in a way that cannot be sustainable and someone offers you a barrel load of money for him, I would say take the barrel and run.

Tends to be my thinking.

But then again, he is still young and he's clearly very exciting and he could develop.

And again, I could look really foolish in a couple of years.

I just want to, you know, this podcasting is all about this.

You've got to open, you know, let put yourself in positions where you might look foolish.

This is a, let's, let's do it.

I, I think

if you get a 50, 60 million for him, I think they should sell.

Yeah.

And the point is, Lars, as

you prove, you've got to keep getting in those positions.

You keep saying stupid things, but you get up, dust yourself down, and you get exactly.

Let's go to Dortmund.

They lost in Bologna, two goals in two minutes for Bologna, their first win of this Champions League campaign.

And Dortmund sacked their manager because they were so upset about the whole thing.

Archie, tell us everything.

For Dortmund, Max, I'm sorry.

I had to make a list because there's so many things.

This is what...

That's what we want.

A long list is what this pod is dreaming of.

It's already over time, but I'm here to do it.

This is what happens when your identity becomes do whatever it takes to qualify for the Champions League, when you're more interested in making money over sporting success.

When your supposed leaders in the squad can't lead with performances on the pitch, aka Emre Chan and Julian Brandt, who were both dropped for last night, when you pay these top players a wage that they wouldn't get elsewhere, meaning that it's much more difficult to be consequential with players when bad performances come and say that won't do.

When you have to question the characters of the players who continually turn up in the Champions League, but not on Saturday at Mainz.

The squad planning does not fit together when you say that, for example, right back Julian Rhyson, we want him to become a face of the club, and yet in the summer you sign the third best assistor in La Liga last season,

when you continually put identification and he knows the club against logic.

The new CEO is Lars Wicken, who scored goal for them in the Champions League final in 1997.

Sebastian Kahl was a stalwart under Jurgen Klopp.

And that's also the thing.

They've tried to build some sort of weird memorial of a club to Jurgen Klopp in the hope that one day he'll come back and, oh, he went to Red Bull.

When you are continually signing players on the qualification of, have they been good recently in the Bundesliga in completely different contexts?

And add to that, Max, an inexperienced coach who's had to deal with injury after injury after injury, but also just probably isn't quite good enough yet.

You end up with Brussia Dorman.

Perfectly done.

No further questions, Your Honour.

Meanwhile, Stuttgart won 3-1

in Bratislava.

I remember being enthralled actually by Stuttgart when they played Real Madrid.

This win has them in a playoff spot

and a bit of hope going into their final game with PSG, which could be great depending on what happens between PSG and City tonight.

And what Stuttgart have done is even more impressive because two of their best players left to join Borussia Dortmund in the summer.

Right, okay.

Valdemar Anton, their captain, who having pledged his allegiance to Stuttgart

and is being roundly mocked for wanting to move to a bigger club now,

is very much getting that back.

As he was when Stuttgart beat Dortmund 5-1 earlier in this season, along with Sabru Girassi, one of the only Brussi Dortmund players who has been performing, and yet Sebastian Hernes, who the season before last,

was in a relegation playoff with Stuttgart, albeit not of his own making, the fact that he was able to then save them and then take them into the Champions League and then lose Guirassi and Anton.

And still, they are seven points above Dortmund in the Bundesliga and in the top four again, and they look like a very good bet to qualify now.

And as you say, that performance at Real Madrid, this is the thing.

Stuttgart plays such good football that actually it's putting better...

better

funded clubs in the Bundesliga in the position being going like, hang on, why can't we do this with the resources that Stuttgart have because the likes of Enzo Miyo in midfield Dennis Undav Jamie Leeverling who a small note I have to say despite scoring two last night he seems to be the first player I've ever seen to get less confident with each goal that he scored in the his finishing like he had it had his head in his hands after he scored the second goal he did nearly miss it nearly miss it right nearly got it yeah it's a tremendous job that that he's done there, and there's a reason why, whenever there's a possible coaching post coming up in Germany, Sebastian Hohenes' name is at the top of that list.

Whether it is for Bayer Levakus, and Brussia Dortmund has inevitably now been mentioned, I don't think that'll happen in the middle of the season, but also for just the way that he's developing so many young German players as well.

Nine of the starting 11 last night were German, and yeah,

he's doing excellent work, but most of all, it's fun, it's entertaining, and that's what football should be.

The only note I had is I hadn't heard of Jamie Labeling, and I just wondered if you could crowbar Maybe It's Maybelline into a song that I could sing Maybe It's Labeling.

Archie, two quick things before we move on.

Omar Marmouche from Einstein Frankfurt to Man City.

What should City fans expect?

He is having and has been having

an absolute worldie of a season.

And

the moment it was really brought home to me was when I was at Eintracht Frankfurt against Bayern Munich.

And he scored this ice-cold hat trick.

The one-on-ones that he's finishing make you think, ah, yes, he is off to somewhere better now.

And the only question mark I have over it is the...

or over it being the transfer is that this is the first season where he's really exploded.

And before he's when he's not been playing through the middle,

he's not been a player of this caliber.

And at City, I think he will probably have to defer and play out wide given the contract that they've just given to Erling Haarland.

So I just hope that he doesn't get put in too much of a Pep Guardiola corset because the things that he can do on the ball are really quite stunning.

And yeah, he is an absolute joy to watch.

And I'm going to miss watching him.

The Pep Guardiola Corset is an amazing opportunity for the Men's City Club shop, I feel.

I feel like this is something they should really embrace.

A Pepicult.

Really good.

Atalantami Sturm got 5-0.

PSV 132

Red Star.

Some proper a towering header from Luke de Jong, who's a first of two.

And Ryan Flamingo, toast of London name, if ever there was one.

He

scored a great volley.

Well, the brilliant thing about that flamingo volley from so the I think Joey Veerman set up all three goals, two from corners, and then this was a corner.

It was cleared to flamingo on the edge of the box.

And he did a swivel volley.

So if you pause the TV at exactly the right moment, he actually looks like a flamingo.

As I did say, great hit by Flamingo for PSV.

He had to stand on one leg for ages waiting for the ball to drop.

No retweets.

I mean, what's wrong with the algorithm there?

23 leaves.

He did have his feathers ruffled subsequently by getting sent off.

Alex said, yeah, just seen his red card.

And have to say, he didn't have a leg to stand on.

Keep those.

Thank you, Ryan Flamingo.

Now to Bruges.

Archie, you were there covering this game for television.

Phil says, is Archie okay?

I've never seen a man visibly turn the colour of ice live on TV before.

Ian says, who's going to thaw first?

Archie or press conference and producer Joel saying, you look like a cold cosmonaut.

And the game was so bad.

Oh, man, I felt for you.

When you are a reporter and they're coming to you throughout a game, there are certain metrics that you're looking for in your brain.

And one of them is when's the first shot on target?

If it's still nil-nil, then you know, then you can at least say, well, we're still waiting for a shot on target, as if to say, it might be a while until you come back to us.

And the first shot on target arrived after 85 minutes.

And that's when I knew it's not been a great game.

And the most interesting thing of the night was learning that

from our sound man, Greg, that he owns something called a velvetizer to make his hot chocolate even more luxurious.

And that

is far more interesting than anything I can really tell you about Club Bruges.

What does it do?

What does a velvetizer do?

You know, it just softens it up, really.

I've had a subsequent look on YouTube.

Makes your hot chocolate experience extra smooth.

To be honest, I could have done with one of them last night.

No, no, you couldn't, because hot chocolate, a good hot chocolate, actually makes you quite sleepy, which would have been a disaster for you in a professional sense.

Because you were already very sleepy.

You say in a professional sense.

I would imagine.

Are you suggesting that I didn't want to go to sleep, mate?

I mean, falling asleep on air is typically frowned upon, even if the game is very bad.

That could have been a viral moment.

I don't know.

I was once doing the local elections for BBC London.

I was at the Croydon count.

And so the reporters are going around, it must be 4am.

And before me, they went, and let's cross to Wandsworth, where Jeremy Barnes has the latest.

And you just heard.

Actually, fair play to Jeremy because it wasn't interesting.

I think Juventus might be cursed, is my theory.

I think they might be cursed because they were total bilge to watch last season under Allegri.

And they finally emancipated themselves from that and just kind of got rid of Allegri.

And they hired Motta, who had this Bologna team playing some really exciting stuff last year.

And it's kind of like a young and innovative coach.

It's like, he's going to make Juventus fun again.

And they've brought some younger players.

And it's going to be more.

And they're still total bilge to what they've, they've got, they're undefeated in the league, but they've got 13 draws and 21.

Like, they just, they're so, but they're so uninteresting.

And so they've done all the right things in terms of becoming more interesting.

It's just on the field, still really boring to watch.

Sixth nil-nil of the season for them.

I say that just to show that I was doing my job last night, even though I felt like

that's all.

Well done.

Yeah, you can take, you can take the allegri out of, yeah, you know, whatever.

It's the sort of lingering sort of radiation of allegri, I think.

All right, that'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll begin with Lars's trip to Galatasarai.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

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Granger for the ones who get it done.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Larsi were there, the game of the day, Galatasarai Dynamo Kyiv.

I was very excited to see Yarmalenko there, but really, the story is the story of a brilliant comeback from Kiev.

No, it was great.

It was great.

So, this week, the way the calendar, the gods of the football calendar, has given us Galatasarai at home against Kyiv on Tuesday, Bashiktas at home against Athletic tomorrow, and then Fenabach at home to Leon on Thursday.

So, it just lined up perfectly.

So, I've gone to Istanbul to watch.

And firstly,

the sort of atmosphere at the games down here, it is one of those cliches that's a cliche for a reason.

Like the noise level is absolutely incredible.

It's absolutely something that lives up to its billing and it's worth like any self-respecting sort of a football fan who likes to travel and to see football in other places.

This needs to be on your bucket list.

It's tremendous.

And the game itself was so much fun because Gal Tasray took a 2-0 lead and looked like.

theoretically should have been cruising.

But the thing we just talked about Liverpool being good at, they are clearly clearly not very good at.

And I had this theory that maybe this incredible crowd supporting them as much as they do can almost become a problem then, because what you want at 2-0 at home on a Tuesday night in Europe is to just settle things down, play some boring passes, just let this game finish.

But they were just,

there were so many acts of like wanton foolishness that were being committed by Galatasarai players.

And they kind of insisted on letting Keeve back into the game.

And they made it interesting.

Made even more interesting by the fact that, yeah, Andrey Yarmolenko came on, who is actually just 35, but he doesn't move like a guy who's 35.

I think he's had some injuries and some stuff.

Like he's clearly,

he's been through some things.

He

almost looked winded very quickly after coming on from the bench, but scored two goals.

And

yeah,

it was a really tremendous occasion.

Watching Victor Osherman in the flesh is interesting.

He's clearly a very good striker.

He missed a few chances here.

37-year-old Dries Mertens is knocking around

with Torera in midfield for Galatasaray.

Davinson Sanchez, still very much Davinson Sanchez in defense.

A lot of fun.

Did I see that in the Galatasarai club shop, they've got Osimen masks?

Yeah, they're selling the Victor Oshiman face mask from when he...

Yeah, so you can get the Oshiman face mask, which I was very tempted to do.

But I also found a very heavily discounted Tangi Ndombele shirt because he was here on loan last year.

He made all of four starts in the league.

So they're trying really hard to get rid of some Ndombalay shirts from the Galatas Rai club shop.

And

I had to oblige.

The dream still lives.

Ndombalay is out there.

One day he will do well.

It's probably worth mentioning that

I've been in a state of total confusion for the past five minutes going,

I didn't know this game was on.

This was a Europa League crash.

Yes, it was.

It was.

More brilliant detective work from

Glenn Denning.

And another thing that might have passed you by, Barry Glenning, tonight is the first game in charge of Bashiktas for Oliguna Solscher.

He's back.

He is now the coach of Bashiktas,

which is certainly an interesting thing that has happened.

And I look forward to seeing how that goes.

Bit of FFL last night.

She United went top again after coming back from behind at Swansea.

Sunderland keep up the pace with the win at Derby.

Chris says, did Barry see Sunderland's second disallowed goal?

Never seen anything quite like it.

Neither have the sky commentators.

Yeah, it's Wilson Isidore, isn't it?

Who missed two penalties in three minutes on Friday night in a huge game.

I mean, right at the end of the game at Burnley, was so sad afterwards that Burnley players were confronting, were comforting him as well as his own players.

And then he had this one disallowed last night for reasons that are still not quite clear.

And the fact that the referee seems happy enough to give the goal until he's confronted by three or four Derby players

does not reflect very well on him.

I feel very sorry for Wilson Isidore, mainly because of the quality of the goal as well.

And when the ball has that sort of ricochet off the underside of the bar and booms into the roof of the net, I'm already a person who thinks that that should be double points anyway.

So to see that get disallowed, and I think for what that would have given him in terms of just the confidence, at least.

Yeah, but he's so on side.

I saw a couple of posts last night saying like, like, can't believe this off-side decision in the sunlight.

And I thought, okay, but it's, you know, it's social media.

Oh, it's really bad.

Oh, oh, he is nowhere near being offside.

And,

yeah,

still, I'm against VAR, but, you know,

then the breaks.

Yeah, your pro decisions being vaguely accurate, at least.

Lead Santa Lawrence tonight in the Daniel Farker, Johnny Houseon, Darren Huckabee, Derby.

Joey says, after a night of high drama in the Champions League, how is Max feeling?

Seeing Cambridge drop to the bottom of League One.

Yeah, Burton got a win at Wigan.

So it's all looking slightly desperate for Ryan Loft and friends.

On Monday, it's a long time ago, Chelsea Beat Wolves 3-1.

Do you want to give us a one-minute prese of this, Barry?

No.

Does anyone?

I can give you a 10-minute pressie of the two episodes of Silent Witness I watched on Monday instead.

It wasn't a classic,

I would say.

Bit of a howler by Sanchez in goal for Chelsea, wasn't it?

Yeah, the Sanchez story seems to be the one that sort of got most of the headlines.

Madawayki nicked a goal of Trevor Chaliba, who was playing after being sort of summoned back from Crystal Palace.

Matez Cunha was criticized by Vito Pereira afterwards.

He went straight down the tunnel at full time without acknowledging the fans.

And Pereira said said it was, quote, something that cannot happen.

He's a captain.

He can be as frustrated as he wants to win, but everyone in the dressing room wants to win.

I don't like his body language.

Apparently, Arsenal and Forest want Cunha in the window.

Robert Sanchez, that was his fourth error leading to a goal this season, only Ips, which is Murich has more with five.

A bit of transfer window stuff.

And Kunku to Bayern for...

50 to 70 million odd.

What do you make of that, Archie?

Is that confirmed?

Is there a development in the last day or is this is this no no it's rumor mill

no i don't think so it's tittle tattle it's rumour mill because bayern have have been trying to to pin their sales to the mask is that the phrase regarding no they want to give mattist tell a chance to develop and then suddenly christopher nkunku's become available and it's like well

uh he he he might be a better option the the whole winger situation at Bayern,

it's quite clogged in terms of the options they have.

I don't think they really need him.

I think he'd be a good player, but in the number 10 position, problem is Jamal Muciala plays at 10.

Other transfer gossip, Manchester United apparently interested in Milos Kirkes, Tariq Mitchell, and Ryan A.

Norrie.

It'd be funny if they bought all of them.

Archie, you want a Fulham minute?

Yes.

So firstly, I'm going to mention something.

regarding Fulham that I found out again at Club Bruges last night, which is Scott Parker seems to be so unpopular with

most clubs that he's been at as a manager so far.

Bournemouth fans don't like him.

I know from experience that Fulham fans don't like him.

And when I spoke to a couple of Club Bruges fans about Scott Parker, the phrase I got back was, please don't mention him.

So there's that.

He's not a war, for goodness sake.

He's only Scott Parker.

So he does look like he was in it.

Yeah, that is true.

So he's quite raffish.

Didn't we get to the bottom of what his rank would have been?

Was he wing commander?

Was there something like this?

I'm saying wing commander, waxed moustache, and

very much in the RAF mold.

And speaking of things that are outdated, Fulham's ticket prices for the first time in 2025, I've got to go there

because the Fulham CEO, Alistair McIntosh, my favourite guy, has been asked by manager Marco Silver to basically do something about the atmosphere.

This came out in the recent notes from the Supporters Trust, where they have a monthly meeting with the club.

And so, so my hint to Alistair would be that in football, the stadiums with the highest ticket prices also tend to be the most soulless ones.

So, I'm just hoping that he can try and work out how to kind of, you know, get things going again.

My confidence is very low because he doesn't care.

And it's sad.

That is sad, isn't it?

Marco Silva is the rust habit of management.

It's a reference for the kids there.

Yep.

Barry, isn't it?

He wants an atmosphere.

Dominic says, Max Barry and Co.

A friend recently made me watch the classic film The Sixth Sense, where famously the kid sees dead people.

His name is Cole Sear, and every time a dead person's in the room, he starts to get chills.

He begins actively shivering, and his breath becomes visible.

After watching it, I mentioned to my friend about this being a possible origin story for Cole Palmer's chills celebration.

We joked that Cole Palmer sees dead people every time he scores.

Much to my surprise, a couple of months later, the Football Weekly crew started hypothesizing on possible film origins for the celebration.

Just wanted to add another possibility to the mix.

Great podding, as always.

Thank you, Dom.

That seems even less likely than Get Shorty, but who knows?

And Liam McLare says, hi, everyone.

Son of Brian, our mate Liam,

who makes musical loops for us.

He says, I hope you're well.

He, of course, wrote the brilliant

Bear Grylls piss, Ray Mears Piss.

That's the one it was.

I should know.

I've performed it enough.

It's been a while since I did a loop of the pod, and I was taken by the Chili Palmer Be Cool Chat from last week.

Please find attached my attempt at a jazzy Ronnie Scott style loop featuring Max and Barry.

Cheers and thanks for the pods.

Love Liam.

We will finish on that loop, but before we do so, say thanks to everybody.

That'll do for today.

Thank you, Lars.

Thank you, Max.

Thank you, Archie.

Thanks, Max.

Thanks, Barry.

Thank you.

And now, performing Chilli Palmer, be cool,

featuring me and Barry.

It is Liam McClare.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove, and our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

Be cool, side.

Have I missed something at Chili Palmer?

Be cool.

Be cool, sire.

Have I missed something a chili palmer?

Be cool.

Be cool, sire.

Have I missed something a chili palmer?

This is the Guardian.