North London is red and are Newcastle title contenders? - Football Weekly Extra

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Arsenal win the North London Derby.

It wasn't pretty, but Arteta's tough guys were imperious and completely dominated almost from start to finish.

There might still be questions about a sackerless attack, but they didn't really look in any danger, even while they were conceding the opening goal.

As for Spurs, their woeful league run continues.

People keep saying you don't know what you're going to get with Spurs, but increasingly, especially in the league, it feels like you do.

Elsewhere, Newcastle's ninth win in a row.

What a run!

And Alexander Isaac and Anthony Gordon might be the two formed players in the league.

We'll, of course, use our southern media bias to try and offload Isak somewhere or other, but the Magpies are up to fourth and looking good for a Champions League finish.

The David Moyes return ends in defeat to Aston Villa.

Presumably, Moyes knew quite how much work is needed at Goodison, but some good solid confirmation for him here.

Ollie Watkins with a much-needed winner, the difference between the sides will be Palace's win at Leicester before being joined by the CEO of Fair Game to discuss the new regulator and whether it will ever come into force.

Philippe's here to get some more big thoughts before we focus our attention on the big stuff.

Get shorty, be cool, Cole Palmer, and John Travolta.

All that plus your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hi, Max.

Bonjour, sava, Philippe Auclair.

Seva bien, Max, c'est wa.

Yes, and welcome, Dan Bardell.

I thought about going Bonjour, but I don't think I can pull it off.

Hello.

Give it a try next time.

Let's start at the Emirates.

Arsenal win the North London Derby 2-1.

Philippe, many congratulations to you.

I richly deserve, I thought.

I don't know if congratulations are in order, really, because

it's become a bit of a routine.

You know,

you could, yeah, I mean, guys, congratulations.

It was a much needed win after what happened both in

the Carabao Cup and the FA Cup.

A much improved performance from Arsenals, especially to start the game with.

They were up for it.

Good press, a lot of enthusiasm despite the absences, but still some glaring problems within Arsenal.

I was absolutely amazed.

I looked at the XG.

I don't do that very often.

And I thought Arsenal might be something about 12.

In fact, it's only 1.42 to Spurs, 0.83.

So, which means I'll have to go back and try to understand again how XGs are calculated, because it felt like Arsenal had chance after chance after chance after chance and carried on inventing new ways of missing them.

And you thought,

you know, this might just play in Spurs' hands.

and uh but in the end yes you're quite right i mean this this spurs side is is odd i'm not absolutely sure it has a midfield uh it's got a one-man midfield and that's about it uh as as ever it showed some interesting things from time to time going forward but less than in the beginning of the season but arsenal didn't have to do an extraordinary amount

you know to to to win that game even if the last few minutes were a little bit hairy but to be honest like when i say route in win um you know this is not very flattering for suppose but i'm afraid that's that's what it was max i'm sorry to no sort in your that's okay

wounds but that's okay and watching you squirm no i'm not squirming at all i i i i found it deeply unsurprising the whole evening um Baz Arteta has built such a strong defence, right?

First time I'd really watched Miles Lewis Skelly, he is some player, isn't he?

Yeah, he's just a kid.

This is his breakout season.

He played really, really well last night.

In, you know, it's a massive game for a kid like him, for anyone in the Arsenal Tottenham team.

Although it didn't really feel like a derby, it wasn't that,

you know, toxic atmosphere or no nastiness or bite on the pitch.

You know, it didn't strike me that the players really dislike each other.

But I thought he he was really good he um he had a couple of great blocks and brilliant tackles good going forward uh did he

did he win the corner or well I mean no one won the corner really but we'll get to that oh yeah sorry no no one

really good going forward and

hugely impressive and for an Arsenal team that has lost players to injury and is not having good luck with injuries and

He is

his emergence alongside that of Eaton Monari this season is something

to put a spring in the Arsenal step.

Yeah, absolutely.

Afterwards, Ian Wright was interviewing, or mainly just showering him with love in a way that Ian Wright can do that makes you love the situation, even if your rivals have just beaten you.

And Louis Skelly said, look, his mom, his friends, and his grandma were there, and he had to put in the tackles because he said, I can't look soft in front of grandma.

It was a really sweet moment but i i don't know about you dan i just watching that game i just thought arsenal looked physically so much stronger like i felt like they won every single 50-50 and not in a kind of they wanted it more way just they were just stronger physically just more at it than total yeah i think in in some ways playing spurs although it is a derby but barry's just kind of said he didn't feel like one coming up against a team like total after the week they'd had was one of the ideal opponents because Arsenal are a physical side Tottenham aren't going to give you that and the mid the midfielders mentioned at the start of this podcast and last season I felt like the fullbacks would come in and and make a midfield this season like Phillips right right it's a one-man midfield the fullbacks don't ever seem to be in midfield and it's so easy to play through but that I guess now this season is Arsenal strength it it is the physical aspect aspect the two the two centre backs I mean Gabrielle and Saliba Gabrielle obviously acting as more of the aggressor, and Saliba players with a bit more nuance.

I don't know what the opposite of an aggressor is, but he's the one who sits back and jockeys a little bit more.

It's quite an old-fashioned centre-back pairing, with one being the one who goes and contests the duels and the other one back off.

But they're just so good and so crucial to what Arsenal do, even coming forward.

And every time they get a corner, you just fancy him to score or be involved as well.

So I actually think Spurs were kind of the ideal opposition for Arsenal after the week they'd had.

Yeah, and he's like, he's so tactically astute.

Both of them are actually Gabrielle and Sali.

They're just always in the right place.

Neil, I did like this question: saying, How's the game gone when Gabrielle punches the air and stokes up the home fans after shepherding the ball out for a goal kick?

Yeah.

Oh, but that was that was that was shepherding of the highest order.

Oh, it was.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm trying to think of a famous shepherd that I could say, you know, would be X would be proud of that.

I don't have any in my locker.

Who is the most Ben Shepard?

Ben Shepard?

Bo Peep?

Bo Peep would be proud of that.

Joseph, should VAR look at corner awarding for mistakes if the corner results in a goal?

I mean, we talked about this actually, Dan, with Villa's goal against West Ham in the cup, where you were the beneficiaries.

I do find it infuriating that VAR doesn't get involved in obvious things that can be cleared up quickly and does get involved in really complicated things that can't.

But at the same time, I'm not sure we'd need it.

I looked back at it last night and thought, thought they go back and look at kind of every finer detail in the box that happens after the corner's been awarded and there's

quite complex stuff that goes on there with all the shirt pulling and all the jostling that goes on from a corner.

So I think if they do score a goal, I don't know what would stop them just going back and looking whether it...

it should have been a corner in the first place.

I don't think it's that difficult.

And it is a

big thing, isn't it?

You know, a goal has been scored off the back of something that shouldn't have happened.

So, if you've got VIR, obviously, the Villa game on Friday, there wasn't VIR, which I was really pleased about.

But if it's there,

why wouldn't you go back and look whether it should be a corner?

It's not that difficult.

The thing is that I think getting VIR involved in that would yet again,

I mean, that

because the phase-of-play has stopped when the corner is awarded.

And if you have to

go back and create even more

stoppages for looking at this, looking at that, sometimes the decision is quite difficult to tell because the touch will be very fine,

very late.

Has it gone past the line completely and so forth?

There are areas.

So the idea of adding more stoppages to the game is something we cannot possibly countenance.

Although

it does take like 25 minutes for Declan Rice to trot over to take the corner.

And it takes one minute for David Ryer to kick the ball as well.

The added time was absolutely fantastic.

But I think that there is a case to look at the situation with the corner kicks or even actually the ball going into touch.

The technology is there to look at what cricket is doing with no balls.

The technology is there.

If you can establish within a fraction of a second or a few seconds whether the ball, for example, has passed the line to award a goal, Why can't you do that for the other lines of the...

I don't quite understand.

Apart from the expense, of course, technologically it's possible, but yes, it could be expensive.

That would work.

But to have VAR taking care of yet another aspect of the game, my goodness, please, please, please, Max, please.

No, no, no, we can't have that.

I think Paris probably should get involved, but it should get involved before the coroner is taken.

And like you say, there is plenty of time to do before the corner is taken because if it's done after the coroner is taken, what happens if the defending team break up field and score?

We're into the Wilson paradox territory here.

But the fact of the matter is, the coroner was awarded, so whether it was justly or unjustly, you've got to defend it.

And

Tottenham were unable to do so.

Yeah, I mean, look, with all the caveat spaz and injuries, they are agonising to watch as a fan sometimes.

You know, I just felt like you know, poor Jed Spence and Archie Gray just passing it between each other, going further back towards the corner flag, no options available, just conceding possession, a throw, or a corner.

Five points from a possible 27, level on points with Palace behind West Ham.

Even Manchester United could go ahead of them with a win tonight.

What are your thoughts on

the status of Topman, Baz?

Mine?

I find them interesting.

I mean, they're clearly not playing well.

I think they're in the bottom three in the form table since, I don't know, the last couple of months.

They've lost twelve games this season.

That's not good enough.

And for all that, I quite enjoy watching them play and I like Ange.

I would be very surprised if they are not actively looking for a replacement.

I suspect there will be talks with Andony Raola, whether he would be interested in going there or not is another matter.

But I don't think there's any point in sacking Ange unless you've got a concrete plan of who to replace him with.

And Mark Langdon has recently, you know, said there is a lot of blame to go around at Spurs, starting with recruitment and

the manner in which the club is run.

So it's not all Ange's fault, but his results are not sustainable.

I think we're entering into the realms of potential voice note territory for you.

Yeah,

two things about Ange.

First of all, I've seen that

the changes he made at the polls

were considered to be naive and self-defeating, right?

I've read that absolutely everywhere, I think.

What I see is that the scoreline was already established at halftime.

Arsenal didn't score afterwards.

It's not because Ange actually substituted, I mean, some very bold substitutions.

And actually, when Poro hit the post, I was wondering what is going to be the narrative of that game.

If suddenly Andres decided to do without a midfield completely, you know, usually it's a one man.

Now, we do it completely.

And they had equalized it the last second.

That's the first thing.

And the second thing, and because I think we all got a soft spot for him, because he's obviously a tremendous human being.

is the fact that I don't know that many managers would be able to cope with the injury situation he's had.

And I know it's always looked on as being an easy excuse, but the problem is that most of the injuries he's had have always all been in the same compartment of the team, which is a defense.

And since the beginning of the team, he's had to put 10 different back five pairings, 10 in the league, just in the league.

That's absolutely insane.

And

you would expect them to struggle.

The problem, though, is they're struggling so much that there's one point where the players are going to start looking at each other thinking, you know what, we're in real, real trouble here.

We don't see a way out of it.

And that is a very, very dangerous spiral to fall into.

I mean, that Pedro Porro shot in at a time that hit the post, nearly went in, Johnny Lou wrote a good piece asking, you know, if that goes in, does that mean Spurs aren't as bad as they are?

Does it mean Arsenal aren't as good as they are?

And that these are the very fine margins on which Tottenham will be judged, but uh it didn't go in and they lost

a corner, it was a corner and it didn't go in.

Okay, I just want just wanted to say to Max, obviously, as the Spurs man here today, Spurs have won one game in nine, and I think the only team in that time who've picked up less points than them is Southampton.

Like, injuries or not,

is that really acceptable, especially when you look at the league table?

No, I agree with that.

Here's what I think.

I want to see this play out, right?

Now, it's important to stress that I am not died in the wool, Tottenham, right?

I'm Cambridge, right?

And they're the team, you know, they are in the relegation zone League One.

And, you know, they play more in my mind than Tottenham.

I love Tottenham and it's a relationship with my dad, but it doesn't break me if they lose a football match.

But I still really want them to win.

I was really annoyed when they were just like trying to play out and it was shit yesterday.

You know, I was in a cafe going, oh, for fuck's sake.

But I wanted to play out because I'm intrigued to see this.

I'm intrigued to see the glimpses you've seen from Angie's football when everyone is there and they are good are so good and so much better than what came before.

That I'm more intrigued to see what this is like in a season or two than if Iriola or Marco Silver or someone else has a goal.

You know, two and a half decades suggest that the manager won't change.

You know, that won't make a difference.

So worst case scenario, Spurs are sort of a bit meh for the next two and a half years.

Well, that's okay, like, like, like, we're all used to that.

Like, like, like that, that I'll be okay with that.

You know, obviously, Liverpool away and the Kara Carpet is massive.

I don't think anyone sensible would suggest they've got a good chance of getting through there, but you don't know.

The Europa League is possible, they get their players back.

But I don't disagree with any of you that, yeah, these results.

Even Angel said it, this form is terrible.

Um, you know, it's really it's obliquely bad.

Joseph says,

was Porrow unlucky not to get man of the match after recovering from one of the greatest sit-down moments in Premier League history?

That would have physically and mentally broken me.

Almost physically broke him.

I thought he'd done his ACL.

When was it Trossard Philippe who just did him?

Oh, I mean, it was some turn, wasn't it?

I don't want to watch it again.

I don't even want to talk about it again.

It was horrible.

It was so humiliating, wasn't it?

Back to Arsenal.

I mean, they're clearly in the title race.

I don't think they have as much chance as Liverpool, Philippe, but I like they do have a they have a grit about them.

And I know we're so results-driven, you know, and when they don't deliver against United or Man United or Newcastle, you say, well, they're missing something.

But their defensive strength means that Liverpool do go through a blip, they can grind these results out.

I mean, you look at David Ryer is one of the best keepers in the Premier League.

I don't think anybody has any doubt about that.

The central defensing pairing is fabulous.

Louis Kelly is one of the fans of the season.

When he was cautioned and went off the pitch, by the way, it was one of the great moments of the game because

he was hilarious.

He was so happy about everything.

And you carry on looking like that.

Declan Rice had a very fine game, too.

Martin Ludegarde is not very far from his best.

The problem is that up front,

there are no real solutions.

The number of times when the Arsenal were in a promising situation and you had two players who were in the similar zone and not quite knowing where to position themselves.

And Kai Havertz, for all his talent, which is immense and is not quite in the is not in a great form at the moment.

Geverj Jesus is injured.

There are no back Buka Yosaka is injured.

When Moneri is injured, there are no solutions.

The number of situations I think what creates the impression that Arsenal are creating loads of chances, and there are loads of situations in which there should be a big chance, but there isn't quite.

Because there is an air shot, because there are two players where there should be one, because

there's no good run, because that superb cross or

crossball, there's nobody to

meet it.

So, yes, they do need somebody up front.

The defense is great, but compare the resources that

Arsenal has got going forward to those of Liverpool.

We'd have Joko Jota in, you know,

right now.

Actually, we will have him yesterday.

So, and Jota struggles to get game time.

We'd love to have Darwin Nunya's even, you know,

so

there is an imbalance here.

And it's strange, it's a team that not everybody seems to be at the same level at the moment.

Some players are performing extremely well, others are a little bit underwhelming, to be honest.

All right, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin with Newcastle's victory over Wolves.

Hi, Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

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The remarkable paper pro move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office, like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

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A proper football journalist, man.

Exactly.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Ryan says, Why is no one taking Newcastle's treble credentials seriously?

Nine straight wins, Baz, for Newcastle.

And, you know, they, you know, Wolves had the odd chance in this game, but, you know, Isak and Gordon are just so good.

I would say Wolves had a lot of chances.

It was a funny old game, and I think the scoreline flatters Newcastle a bit.

They were well worth the win, but Wolves had more shots on target with them.

They also hit the post twice at least, Strand Arsenal, I think, and those don't count as shots on target, as we have discussed with Troy Townsend in the past ad nauseum.

But you can't,

you know, are Newcastle in the title race.

We keep asking, can Arsenal go on a run can Man City go on a run but Newcastle are on a run they've won nine in a row they've won I think seven of those in the league since their last defeat against Brentford they've gone from 12th in the table to fourth

score 26 conceded three

martin de Bravo has come in for Nick Pope and is playing really well keeping loads of clean sheets Alexander Isaac is probably the best striker certainly in Europe at the moment can't put a foot wrong.

And he's got everything in his locker.

Anthony Gordon up in supports, playing really well.

So it speaks volumes for how well Newcastle are doing at the moment that they didn't,

they were quite a way off their best, I think, yesterday, and still 1-3-no.

I mean, Debar Pippa did make an excellent save late on.

Even better considering...

I think we'd sold him to the Saudi League about two weeks ago and were convinced that he'd played his last game.

He was also convinced because he did a farewell at Newcastle's last away game, a quite emotional farewell.

And so last night it was like, oh,

I left my keys behind.

17 goals for the season for Isaac.

He's on 46 in total in the Premier League.

Third all-time for Newcastle, one behind Callum Wilson.

That's a few more to get to Alan Shearer.

The conversation always goes down straight to, like, who's going to buy him?

And I understand why that is infuriating for newcastle fans but but there's a pecking order in football and you know if rail madrid wants him they do but at the moment he is at newcastle and he is just he is such a perfect he's just a perfect number nine to have for them yeah i said a couple of seasons ago when they were on the cusp of finishing in the top four and getting champions league football that newcastle had accelerated themselves so much that teams like arsenal for example can't just come and take Newcastle's players.

It's very, very difficult.

And then they had a bit of an off year last year and maybe Isak could have gone in the summer.

There was murmurs that he was touted round to Chelsea.

I think we're now getting back to the territory where Newcastle are looking like they may well be a Champions League team again.

And I don't, again, don't think, I think if they qualify for the Champions League, I don't think Arsenal or a team of that ilk can just come and take Isak from Newcastle.

He was a fantastic bit of business.

He was such a good centre forward.

In the first kind of year and a half, it felt like him and Callum Wilson were sharing the load when the other one was fit.

He would only pick one of them and they would rotate a little bit.

At this point now, he's just, he's the undisputed number nine of Newcastle.

And at the moment, he is the best forward in the Premier League, if not Europe.

Eight games in a row he scored in.

And if you look at their next three fixtures, they've got Bournemouth at home, Southampton away where he could probably not play and still score.

And then Fulham at home.

Like he has every chance of at least levelling that Jamie Vardy record.

And then if he does, he can sell the rights to a film that never gets released once he gets those 11 in a row.

And also the midfield, Philippe, you know, and this move, Tenale, moving back a bit, and it's just the balance of it is just,

it's really interesting how much that has changed their fortunes.

And it's also a very physical midfield.

My goodness.

They're big, big units, all of them, but also extremely good technically.

I think perhaps what...

the only question mark you would have about Newcastle at the moment is the fact that the team that is on the pitch is very much the first team.

That's it.

And you wonder whether the backup is quite as good as what we're seeing at the moment.

But they've hit one of those moments.

Even if honestly, I was perhaps a little bit underwhelmed by the defensive performance yesterday.

They conceded an awful lot of chances, as Barry said.

But, you know, they also can concentrate on the league, really.

They're in a magnificent position.

Alexander Isak, by the way, you will have noticed, wears the the sacred number on his shirt, which is 14, which is Thierry Henri's jersey number.

And he actually makes me think a bit about Henri the way he plays, when he sort of goes to the left-hand side and looks for space and then cuts inside.

But yes,

they are very well balanced.

I don't think as defensively sound as an Arsenal is, but going forward, my goodness, the importance of relationships, when you see how Alexander and Isaac and Gordon combine together, the way they find each other the way they seem to know instinctively it's not instinct it's repetition it's intelligence where they are and how to combine with each other very few teams have that so yeah pretty damn serious isn't it yeah i thought gimmer ash as well did so brilliantly to set up well yeah i think i think the second one um everton nil villa won dan you would have been paying more attention to this game than anyone else um didn't look like a classic even afterwards david moi said it wasn't a classic but you did enough you spoiled his uh renaissance yeah

villa actually in in some ways made the game easier than it could have been but then also more difficult than it should have been in different ways I before the game I've got to admit I was worried Villa's away form was pitiful going into the game they'd lost five in a row and it felt like the worst time to play Everton probably in five six years with Moyes coming back at Gooderson Park but it's a low it's a low bar

it is a low bar and then the camera pan to the Everton fans after six minutes.

And to be honest, nothing had really happened in the six minutes.

Everyone looked bedraggled and beleaguered.

And

I thought, we're six minutes into one of your heroes returning to manage the club, and everybody just looks miserable.

But both teams had chances in that first half.

Villa probably had the better two.

Kamara cleared one off the line for Everton.

Ramsey absolutely should have scored on half-time and Watkins probably before that.

And then just one moment of really precise and intra-cut football that the weight of passed from Rogers through to Watkins who badly needed a goal and finished it on his wrong side.

I'm really pleased for him because even when he's not scoring, he just puts in so much for the team.

He never hides.

He's always showing.

And Vida have got a little bit of a problem at the moment with the discourse around Watkins and Duran.

It's a nice problem in a lot of ways, but you don't see many teams that have two strikers of that quality.

And it's getting difficult to choose between them.

I mean, Duran didn't even get on last night.

I assume he might be getting saved to make an impact against Arsenal on Saturday.

Although now, Watkins has scored and he's got a great record against Arsenal.

He probably should start.

So it's a nice problem to have, but I don't, in some ways, it's not doing Villa any favours because at some point, one of them's going to want to play every week.

Everson, clearly, the bigger story from this game, he did get a lovely reception.

David Moyes, that might be the extent of the new manager bounce.

I mean,

they did look so they are a tough watch, Baz, aren't they?

Yeah, I would not like to have to watch them week in, week out.

That's the ninth time they've failed to score in 11 league games.

Well, they have three strikers, none of whom are any good.

Brosia, I think, is out injured now for a while.

Beto

isn't much good, and Dominic Alvert Loon is just a disaster at this stage.

He had one one good season four years ago, and he's more or less been dining out on it ever since because he doesn't score goals.

He doesn't provide assists.

He missed three good chances last night, one excellent chance to snatch a point for Everton right at the end and sent his shot sailing over the bar from six yards, like kind of shinned it.

And

I think there's talk bigger clubs are interested in him this window, and I've no idea why, because he just he's a he's a striker who doesn't score goals or provide assists so what what what does he do I mean there's there's one player they've got to try and hang on

by all means Eberton and it's Iliman and Jai

who is an absolute gem of a footballer and you wonder what he's doing in that team and and in fact

that gloomy Goodison,

gloomy as the light, the mood, everything,

only lit up when the little boy was on the ball.

And he's brave, he's talented, he's got a knife for goal.

And I'm absolutely sure there's loads of people who are circling around him.

And given the Everton's financial situation, which is not absolutely brilliant, I do hope they hang on to him because it's one of their very, very few hopes.

Because the way it's going reminds me of what the table looks like and who they're playing next, Everton.

Well, next up, they've Spurs at home, Brighton away, Leicester at home, Bournemouth, and Liverpool at home.

They'll be all right next game, then.

I was going to say, go, crisis alert, Everton Spurs, but yeah, they're on 17 points,

16th position.

There is a real gap above them.

Man United are six points ahead of them.

So we presume it's these five at the moment who are in the relegation dogfight.

They're on 17, Ipswich 16, Wolves 16, Leicester 14, Southampton 6.

Everton, Ipswich have a game in hand over Wolves and Leicester.

So, yeah,

but they are by no means

they are in a bad position.

And

you're right.

That game against Tottenham on Sunday is enormous.

Just on NJ,

surely he's wasted out wide.

You're playing Decore as a number 10.

NJ

can almost get lost out wide.

You've got to get him into the middle of the park.

I agree with Philippe.

He's a magnificent player.

I watched him live at Villa Park in September, I think it was, or August, when they came to Villa Park.

And he was the best player on the pitch.

And he was very good again last night and has been good every time I've watched Everton but if you're not scoring goals and you're not really making loads of chances get your most creative player into the number 10 position it's bizarre to me that he's been playing out wide for the majority of the season do you think he's just wandering around going what am I what am I doing here everyone's rubbish like you know like like like they're just trying to do keep no one can do keepy ups he's like just like they're all just like love like John like Peter Kay and the John Smiths advert you know just booting the ball out and he's just like just want to control a football lads.

Dan says, do the panel have an opinion about Pygate, or do they need an in-depth explainer about it from Dan Bardell?

What is it?

Is it worthy of

time on this podcast?

Doesn't sound like no,

I would suggest the Guardian audience is more mature than Pygate that happened at Villa on Front Friday.

It's so, so stupid.

So stupid.

I have to say, my curiosity is peaked.

Ditto.

I'm very good friends with him.

There's a vlogger, a Villa vlogger.

His videos are unbelievable.

He goes home and away, covers Villa everywhere, Max Stokes.

Channel's called Villa on Tour.

And he had the audacity, because he films his match experience every single game.

He had the audacity on Friday to video himself trying his £1.50 pie, because a lot of things were £1.50 for Villa's £150 anniversary.

I think it was chicken and something.

And it was freezing cold.

And he had the audacity to clip this up and put it on social media and got absolutely annihilated because people are like well why why are you videoing it why didn't you just take it back even though the cues were absolutely atrocious on friday and now villa fans on x are just obsessed with with pies and having a pop that he should have just sent it back rather than filming it but the whole idea of a vlog is that you film your match day experience and yeah that forms part of his experience and i would fully expect everything i've just said not to make it

no no no i'm i know i i think it i think it'll stay in i i think it's i think it's interesting And, you know, I suspect we get a lot of correspondence about cold food.

And it's not like you're sitting in a restaurant, right?

No.

It's a hassle.

You get your pie, you get back to your seat, and you're there to then suddenly go, you know, you can't just go, excuse me, sir.

Garcon,

this pie.

If he'd have tried to take it back, like, he's very well known about Villa Fans.

His YouTube channel is very good in it, and he does very well off it.

If he'd have tried to take that pie back, people and jumped the queue to take the pie back.

Everyone would have gone, well, who on earth does this guy think he is?

You cannot win.

That's in fact the second pie gate in the history of English football, isn't it?

Because there was pie gate

when gambling.

Yeah, yeah, gambling coach.

I suspect it's not the first.

I suspect there's been more than two pie gates in the history of English football.

Well, I have a vague recollection of Millwall getting fined because someone threw a pie from the stand which hit a player.

And I think Millwall's argument, or their fans' argument anyway, anyway, was this is not a missile, it's a savoury snack.

It doesn't count,

it's not the same as a lighter or a coin.

Phil have a weird relationship with food as well, because someone obviously threw a cabbage at Steve Bruce at one point.

And actually, that is that is a missile.

Because if you've ever been hit by a cabbage,

have you ever been hit by one?

Nothing will ever beat Luis Figo's pigs.

Well, of course, nothing will beat the pig head.

No, but I was filming a bit about the cabbage, and I said, Well, look, why don't you, at the end of the shot, just throw a cabbage at my head and I'll sit still and it will hit me and actually fuck you know they threw it just to see what it was like and it was like yeah don't throw cabbages at people Lester Nill Crystal Palace 2

What did you make of this one Baz?

Not a huge amount really.

Six defeats in a row for

entirely expected.

I think when Southampton got their new manager, there was a clip going around of the Southampton new manager bounce, and it was basically someone dropping a watermelon off a high balcony onto concrete, and it just splattered all over the floor.

Leicester have had a kind of similar bounce with Rude Van Mistelroy.

They had chances.

Jamie Vardy missed a couple you'd expect him to put away in his sleep.

and then had a couple other half chances.

They hit the bar through Sumare,

but it was a pretty straightforward win for Crystal Palace, who, again, were nowhere near their best, but still ran out fairly comfortable winners.

Yeah,

nice finish from Mark Gay in there as well.

I think Palace fans are slightly frustrated that Trevor Chalava has been called back by Chelsea.

and wasn't treated particularly well by Chelsea when he was at Chelsea.

So,

you know, things change very quickly, I guess.

I'm sure he will, you know,

do his his best when he's back there.

But yeah, frustrating for Palace fans, that couple of games this evening, Man United Southampton, Ipswich, Brighton.

Then the games this weekend.

Arsenal Villa is interesting because it was the game that Arsenal lost last season, which sort of put them out of the title race.

Liverpool go to Brentford and their excellent home record.

And Forest have an on-paper victory against Southampton.

So, you know, Forest have the easiest game of the

top three, don't they?

Newcastle and the Chase is back home to Bournemouth.

That's the early kickoff on Saturday.

As we've said already, Everton Spurs is Crisis Claxon Central there at Goodison on Sunday.

Not sure if this is two football clichés, but some feedback on yesterday's pod from Adam.

Presumably, not that one.

I mean, he's busy enough

working on football cliches to listen to other football podcasts to check if their cliches are correct.

Who suggested that we got the order wrong when we were describing Liverpool's potential blip, having not picked up a win in their last two games, suggesting a wobble comes before a blip.

Wobble one to two games, blip three to four, crisis, anything beyond that.

Barry, any thoughts on that?

Would you go wobble before blip?

Yeah, he's probably right, is Adam.

I'm happy to accept that.

Okay.

Any other further thoughts, or Philippe, you're considering it?

No, no, no, I think it's very interesting.

I mean, I think it's obviously not a theory that is to be constructed in absolute terms because

the blip for a Liverpool is not a blip for Southampton.

And so, therefore, but I think, yeah, that's wobble, blip, crisis.

I think there must be an intermediate stage between blip and crisis, but I can't quite put my finger on that.

Well, there's sort of a kind of, there's a sort of doldrums, isn't there, which doesn't quite fit within this.

But yes,

maybe we will get sued by Adam Hurry for this section.

I think doldrums, because doldrums is the absence of wind.

So, doldrums comes before wobble.

Oh, no, no.

Okay, really?

I think it does.

No, I'm not sure.

No, I don't think so.

When you're in the doldrums, it means you're making no progress.

I think maybe I was wrong to introduce doldrums.

Doldrums is a separate thing on a different side.

Doldrums feels like something you talk about the entire project, the Spurs project at the moment is in the doldrums rather than match to match.

It's the whole thing doldrums fails like to me.

Producer Joel suggests maybe a looming crisis comes before a crisis.

You're absolutely right.

Plenty of looms at Goodison on Sunday.

Anyway, that'll do for part two.

We will talk about the regulator and whether it'll ever get through Parliament with Narl Cooper, the CEO of something called Fair Game, in just a second.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Right, so let's talk about the regulator and whether it'll get through Parliament.

Niall Cooper is the CEO of Fair Game.

Can you tell us about Fair Game?

Like what it is, like who, who are, for listeners who don't know, who the hell are you, Niall?

Tell us.

I love that.

Who are you?

I feel like the football chant is already echoing down the terraces.

So yeah, Fair Game, we're a group of 34 football clubs that came together largely because we're a bit hacked off with the way football governance works.

It all began because I looked into the board of the Dons Trust and I was given the wonderful remit of Ethos,

lovely broad thing.

And I kind of went out and said, right, well, what's wrong with the game?

And everybody came back from saying football governance.

You know, I used to be a football journalist.

I was asking journalists.

I asked people in the boardroom, asking other clubs, and so on.

And it came really clear that certain clubs just weren't being listened to, the ones who were trying to do things the right way.

And, you know, that's what we were trying to sort out.

So that's how we've grown and now representing 34 clubs,

lobbying as well, as much as we can do to to try and get the game in a better state than it is or has been for ages, to be honest.

So, 34 clubs, and that's sort of mainly lower league and non-league clubs.

Why don't all clubs support this?

Do you know what?

I'm married to a Scott.

So, the best way to describe this is a fantastic Scottish phrase, which is that there are some clubs out there that are a little bit like numpties.

So, that's the reason.

So, you don't have not everybody thinks about holistically about what is beneficial for the whole of the game.

So, you'll have certain clubs that are very much involved in the self-interest and there are other clubs that perhaps don't want to see what's underneath the bunny.

And that's kind of where we've got to.

That said, there are some clubs who have said to me, you know, look, we can be rivals for 180 minutes a season, but ultimately we need to look at getting a healthy football system, which is going to benefit all of us.

At the moment, the financial flow is a right mess.

You know, you've got clubs that overspend routinely.

We all know about what's happening in the championship, where most clubs spend more on players' wages than they do get in revenue.

We've seen the gaps between the divisions come out of control.

Parachute payments have made the championship and

the competitive balance there has completely disappeared.

And you've seen clubs raising ticket prices, cutting women's teams, cutting back on infrastructure in their clubs and so on.

There's just so many things that are wrong with the game that basically need fixing.

And that's kind of where we've come into.

Let's talk about the bill then.

Paul McKinnon is writing in The Guardian that a remarkable 375 amendments have been proposed, addressing everything from state ownership of clubs to replacing the use of the word crest with badge to, quote, avoid the incorrect use of heraldic terms, which feels important to me.

From the outside, it feels to me like this is just, you know, this will never get through.

There's just too many people there trying to stop it getting through.

What's your feeling?

Do you know what?

I'm obviously on the side of the optimist on this one.

No surprise, really.

If I simplify the the bill down to kind of three key different changes, right?

One is the financial flow.

So the financial flow is a distribution that happens every few years.

So that's already kind of in existence.

And what you're looking at is just setting a few parameters to make it fairer,

which isn't like a big thing.

You're basically saying, right.

EFL, Premier League, you've got to match these things to sort out football's finances.

Another one is the code of governance, which

a governance code exists in basically every other sport that exists.

And a lot of those kind of standards are already out there.

So like equality standards and stuff like that.

So that brings it all into one place, which would be connected with the licensing regime, basically what happens in nearly every other sport.

So that's, again, no real big issue.

And the last one is the state of the game report, which is basically an independent analysis of where football is at.

And again,

the EFL, the Premier League already require clubs to report back on all of these, a lot of these things anyway.

And you bring those into one place and you give that into an independent body that then looks at, right, well, what are the fundamental issues of the game?

So it's not like all these kind of huge bits and bobs and you have whatever.

What it's doing is trying to make sure that you've got somebody with a holistic oversight that can independently look at how we make the game better and make sure we don't have.

all those clubs going bust the 64 that have gone into administration since the start of the premier league that 58% of technically insolvent clubs, those huge financial gaps that are causing clubs to cut back on infrastructure and fan engagement and academies and women's teams and raise ticket prices is what we're seeing routinely at the moment.

All of those sort of things are addressed and looked at to try and make the game more sustainable.

So that's where it's at.

It's not like a huge, big, scary thing.

It's three things that are basically bringing together elements that aren't there at the moment.

And I think that's the that's the beauty of it.

And i think you know you you only have to talk to all those clubs that have gone into crisis and most clubs have got history of remembering when it's gone into crisis to look at how you you solve it and i think that's that that's the big that's the big advantage of uh what we're looking at do you think fans realize the importance of it not as many as they should do or or whatever that's going to happen i think when you look at it and we talk to a lot of fans and a lot of clubs um routinely and you'll find that the clubs the fans who are one clubs that have got recent experience of their club being in crisis get it and really get it because that's a lot of hurt and a lot of pain.

And, you know, when a club goes into administration, you're basically talking local businesses going out, you know, going bust because that's basically what happens.

They're all dependent.

It's like a, you know, supply chain and they go bust.

So there's a lot of people out there that get it from those crisis clubs.

Some of those clubs who've lived in, you know, kind of, you know, immune to ill.

are perhaps less aware of what the benefit is.

But I think certainly fans in the championship championship will be aware of the competitive balance imbalance that exists there because of parachute payments and then actually one of the other biggest gaps is between the championship and league one and you know league one clubs are basically they're not even in the conversation half the time or league two clubs so it's it's bringing those in to say well actually there is a financial there's huge wealth at the top end of the game and yet you're struggling to you know pay for your um program sellers you know that's that's where you're at you know so there's there's a a huge difference uh that can really be addressed that benefits the whole of the football pyramid the premier league don't really want the regulator i don't know how many premier league clubs want the regulator how can the rest of football compete with you know them so i mean i think the thing is is that

um when you think about the european super league and what the backlash was from that and it was the fans that led that it was the fans that led that now the premier league is a fantastic organization of doing exactly what the premier league is set up to do which is to benefit its stakeholders.

And its stakeholders are 20 billionaires.

So yeah, wonderful job at looking after them.

And it's perhaps no surprise when you talk about the £3.2 billion broadcast, you know, revenues that come into football through broadcasts and media rights, that 88% of that stays with the Premier League.

And of the 12% that's left over, 7% of that goes to the parachute payment clubs, those six clubs that get rewarded for getting relegated every couple of years.

So that leaves 5% for the next 138 clubs.

So, you know, that's where the Premier League's at.

It's got a fantastic monopoly in how football's finances operate.

So, yeah, of course, the Premier League are not going to be massively keen on it.

But then again, think about why is the Pyramid so important?

The Pyramid is so important because it creates a pool of talent.

It creates a love of the game in a community bit that doesn't necessarily exist as much.

Community spending is absolutely key to lower league clubs.

And that really strengthens the whole love of the game and the fact that we all love it.

I mean, a lot of people now will have what I would call a brand club, a club that might be in the Premier League, and their local community club that they really want to be and feel involved in.

It's that local community club that gives a lot of people the real deep love of the game.

No, the impression I get, and I'm far from an expert on this, is that quite a few Tory peers are trying to either water down the regulator or kick it into the long grass or just get rid of it altogether.

Among them, Colin Moynihan, who's a former sports minister, and

Karen Brady, who's obviously CEO at West Ham.

So

will they succeed in doing that?

I think they're raising points.

I mean,

do you know, I mean, I was there watching them again last night, and I will hold my tongue on what I particularly thought of them at the time.

And I was with representatives of other supporters, trusts and football clubs last night.

I think we had Southend and Luton and Wimbledon were there, Ebbs Fleet United, and a couple of other clubs as well, all watching this all unfold.

I don't think they will succeed because I think they're out of touch with

the majority of football, the majority of the football pyramid.

Ultimately, most people in the chamber do want a better game, do want a regulator that works and is efficient.

And what we need to think about is that this isn't called the Premier League governance bill.

It's called the football governance bill.

and that means it has to look at how the whole of the pyramid works and how the whole of the pyramid can thrive going forward and you what we need to think about is is the strength and power of our game rests in clubs not just the man united's and the liverpools and the arsenals but it also is on the south end uniteds the tunbridge angels the ebbsfleet united's the grimsby towns the newport counties the lincoln cities and clubs like that that are absolutely fundamental the game and i think we need to make sure that they are at the heart heart of this conversation as well.

Yeah,

Niall, I wish I shared your optimism because

I think in some way the merits of the arguments and you're making the arguments very well and it's very convincing and I think we're all

in agreement with you.

But it's not about the good at football.

It's a political quarrel.

It's called filibustering.

When you put down 375 amendments, it's because you don't want the legislation to go through.

And it doesn't matter if the legislation has has merits.

It doesn't matter if the regulator is something that actually was an idea that the Conservatives were very keen on that long ago, by the way.

And suddenly they're not in favor of it anymore.

It's a political football, so to speak, and the Tories don't want it.

Is there anything we can do about that?

Because we have this extraordinary situation that at the moment people are already being interviewed to be and shortlisted.

to be at the head of the regulator and we might not have a regulator for 10 years

and then the other lobbies will come in.

You will have the gambling lobby will come in, which is very well, very powerful in the Commons.

I'm sorry, I'm being the devil's advocate here, but that's exactly what I want to be-the devil's advocate.

Because how can you go past all this filibustering in the House of Lords and then the ping-pong match we're going to have: House of Lords, House of Commons, House of Commons, House of Lords, and so forth, before it becomes a bill, an act?

Largely because I'd say over the last two, three years, I've basically, I think,

by osmosis, passed lobbying and political shenanigans 101 and probably got a doctorate in it now, considering the amount of meetings and knowledge I've learned of it all.

Where we're at on the filibustering side, I mean, a lot of the amendments, I have to be honest, are fair game sourced because there were bits that we were like unhappy with and we wanted tweaks.

The filibustering has been noticeable because you've had Tory peers standing up and you have a limit on the amount you're allowed to talk and they've basically gone to their limit of 10 minutes.

And it's been on one particular session where I was looking down on the chambers, and you had this

childish schoolboy antics of people passing notes to say, Right, here's some extra bits you can just waffle about, and then people patting others on the back, going, Oh, well done for reaching your 10-minute limit of talking nonsense.

Um, so there is an element of it.

The reality, though, is that the House of Lords does have a time limit, and last night their bit of filibustering and debating ended.

Um, so we're now into a situation where it'll go into the commons, it'll go to report station into the commons.

And

looking at that timetable, I think we're still on course for it's going to be a bit tighter than we want it to be for the regulator to be in place for the start of the next season.

You know, the shadow regulator is already making some conversation.

So I'm optimistic about it being in place.

The key really is to make sure that it has sufficient powers.

and that it is doing all the things it needs to do.

You know, I'm optimistic.

We started out with having 20 amendments and we're at this moment in time quite confident that 16 of them are in a good place and the four others are connected with Van Bita a bit on human rights and also that financial flow no thanks so much for coming on let's keep in touch as this journey continues no problem at all it's wonderful to speak to you all and I'm happy to come back to you and and

impart my kind of

instant reaction from having sat in a gallery looking down on a load of people deciding the future of our national game.

So it's it's a joyous experience.

I think I'm happy to have taken that mantle mantle on and

look forward to speaking to you guys all again really soon.

Yes, you do it.

So we don't have to.

Thank you, Niall.

Myl Cooper there from Fair Game.

If you are interested, you can go to their website, fairgameuk.org.

Briefly, any other business?

Joe says, while I love Get Shorty, now one of the best Elmore Leonard adaptations along with Jackie Brown, there is no way that Cole Palmer has seen this movie.

It was released seven years before he was born.

I respect Barry's Chili Palmer reference, but surely the goal celebration is a play on Cold Palmer as an ice-cold assassin or some such, says Joe.

Nish Kumar messaged me, Barry.

Hey, Nish.

I was shouting, Get Shorty, Be Cool is the sequel at my phone, so thrilled the correction was made.

Further digging by producer Joel revealed that another celebrity listener, Chris O'Dowd, was in the get shorty TV spin-off in 2017.

Yes, he was, yes.

Which passed me by.

I'm sorry, Chris.

If you know of any other connections between Football Weekly and the extended Chili Palmer universe, please get in touch.

Football Weekly at theguardian.com.

And that'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Dan.

Thank you.

Thank you, Philippe.

Me, Seatbacks.

Thanks, Baz.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Daniel Stevens.

We'll be back on Monday.

This is The Guardian.