A huge night for Spurs in the League Cup: Football Weekly Extra

This is The Guardian.

Did you see the game last night?

Of course you did, because you used Instacart to do your grocery restock.

Plus you got snacks for the game, all without missing a single play.

And that's on multitasking.

So we're not saying that Instacart is a hack for game day, but it might be the ultimate play this football season.

Enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders.

Service fees apply.

For three orders in 14 days.

Excludes restaurants.

Instacart, we're here.

HiPod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category, digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable Paper Pro Move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office.

Like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist, man.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention, so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels, and even sounds like paper.

Think and work like a writer, not a texter.

And the battery performance is amazing.

No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time.

The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks.

And if you do need to recharge, you can go from naught to 90% in less than 45 minutes, Barry.

Fantastic.

Why not give it a go for nothing?

You can try Remarkable Paper Pro Move for 100 days for free.

If it's not what you're looking for, get your money back.

Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today.

Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Spurs beat Liverpool in the Carabao Cup semi-final first leg.

18-year-old Lucas Bergville giving Ange a vital win.

Of course, he shouldn't have been on the pitch pitch when he scored, and Simercast wasn't on the pitch.

Feels the kind of fair, balanced, and equal that all Spurs fans could get behind.

Bergwell was brilliant, as were a lot of Spurs players, another 18-year-old Archie Gray, and new goalkeeper Antonin Kinski.

Some debut after arriving four days ago.

Liverpool weren't at their best, but still have chances, and there's unlikely to be a Cuban on earth who wouldn't still make them favourites in the second leg.

And then on to a brilliant FA Cup third-round draw.

Arsenal, Manchester United, the big one.

And then some vintage David V.

Goliath, Tamworth, Accrington, Morecambe, Salford, Bromley, Harrogate, all with glamour ties.

We'll welcome Graham Potter to West Ham on the old Trafford scale.

How poisoned is that chalice?

There's all the transfer gossip, a vital update on Rollerberry, your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Week clean.

On the panel today, John Bruin, welcome.

Hiya.

Representing Spurs, Chris Pauros, hello.

Good morning, good morning.

And representing Liverpool, Salon, Andy Hickman.

Hi, Salon.

Good morning.

Yeah, Mike said, if you gave me 100 guesses on the score beforehand, 1-0 to Spurs would not have been one of them.

I checked.

It's Spurs' fourth 1-0 win since Ange took over,

which isn't really that many, isn't it?

Salon and Chris, you were both there.

I suppose we'll start with the victors.

Chris, how was that for you?

Well, I think firstly, I really hope Rodrigo's okay.

It looked quite worrying and happening so early in the game under no challenge must have been quite scary for his teammates and affected them actually.

But I saw his Insta before I went to bed and he was given a thumbs up from what seemed like a hospital bed.

So fingers crossed as well.

Right.

So

what a debut from Kinski.

As you said, Max, four days in, a home debut in that atmosphere in the semi-final and so assured for the first thing to be for him to knock the ball over the forward's head.

And the level of control,

he looked like he calmed the defence down within seconds.

Are you saying he's better with his feet than Fraser Forster, Chris?

Is that what you're suggesting?

And I think that might be why he's actually, he actually got brought in like this this few days in.

Archie Gray, what composure, what awareness.

And actually, we've just got to remember he's out of position at centre-back.

And look at what he can do.

Radu Dragassin.

shaves his head before every game as you can see it's always so clean his undercut um and it obviously heading everything away his positioning for that goal line clearance was absolutely perfect.

Jed Spence was excellent again, kept Mo Sala quiet.

He was really good at maintaining possession.

You know, I read somewhere he won five out of seven duels in the first half, didn't concede a foul.

I think we need a full investigation into how this is his third season and is only just playing.

And again, out of position.

Porrow's ball to Solanke for Solanke's assist.

What a pass.

It's almost like that EFL ball flies a bit differently.

Great goal from Solanke.

It's a shame that he was marginally offside because he took it so well.

But the whole his run to get to that ball from Poro, the way he sort of gathered the ball and played it off to Bergvail for the goal, terrific.

Bergvail was absolutely everywhere.

He fought for every ball.

He thoroughly deserved his goal.

Don't come at me with he should have been sent off.

We'll get to that.

We'll get to that.

Diaz died for the first yellow card.

So, in conclusion, Max, just who we are, mate yeah and that's what we have time for uh today um

i'm excited i mean we all thought yeah no you're allowed to be we all thought so long that this pod and even chris said it in the whatsapp group you know don't don't give me too much today we just presumed liverpool would turn up and win and they just weren't i mean they still had the chances actually in this game but they just weren't quite at it i thought Yeah, I think it was one of those, it was similar to the Man United game in the run-up where all the Spurs fans I knew were saying, oh, it's going to be a whitewash.

Oh, don't score too many.

This is going to be horrible to watch, et cetera.

And the Liverpool fans were going in with confidence as well, right?

I think my mate I was with was like, probably 4-0, I reckon.

I actually said a bit more cagey, a 2-1.

But yeah, I would never have predicted a 1-0 loss.

But

it wasn't as bad as Sunday.

I don't think it was as bad.

It didn't feel

as sloppy.

As you said, I think there were more chances for Liverpool, but there's something not quite right, not clicking.

And I think that's inevitable in seasons, long seasons, right?

You get to these points where you have a combination of both players being a bit tired and also other teams working out how to play against them, how to nullify your threats.

And that's football.

And the test of a good manager is Arnie Slott's ability to adapt and find new ways to win to go forward.

So I stupidly listened to a very late night phone in

and

I don't think it's like reason to panic at all i think it's two poor performances in a row against two sides that can show up and would love to beat liverpool so it's also a semi-final of a cup and i'm i'm not worried particularly about uh the second leg and going to anfield um it'll be very very hard for for spurs to get a decent result there lots of people last night saying oh we'll get a drawer anfield and we'll go through but that's going to be a very very difficult job yeah i agree with you john did did spurs play slightly differently it was interesting there's someone saying you know the the uh you know the the sign of a good manager is whether they adapt can they adapt when people work them out and and going well that's a ridiculous idea but

as producer joel wrote this and i kind of agree with him have we been tricked into thinking they approach things differently just because it was one nil and they kept a clean sheet or were they slightly different yesterday tott

well i was looking watching arna slot talk after the game and he said that he expected this approach from total which was pushed very hard and very high up the pitch.

I suppose one thing is we don't know how they would have played if Benson Kerr would have lasted the game, but the changes that they made meant that they had a lot of young legs able to run around.

If you're talking from Liverpool's point of view, two of their best players this season have been Gravan Birch and Curtis Jones, and neither of them really were able to do much.

They were

nullified, as was Mo Salah, actually.

And the thing is, within the Ange plan, if you've got the legs, it can work better, doesn't it?

And that's the problem with the Ange plan: is that when it works, it can nullify opponents, it can stop them playing, it can stop them being who they want to be, mate.

But it doesn't

always happen that way.

And he's had his fair share of injuries, his fair share of disasters.

I mean, obviously, let's look at that team, and that is still a patched-together team with

the greatest footballer in the world, Archie Gray, at centre-half, who just looks, I mean, unbelievable, but was able to play

even more relaxed than he does normally because they've got a goalkeeper that can control the ball.

Can we do the Werner and Kinski gag for those cinefails?

Please.

It's done now.

Yeah, I was going to say

they continue to sign Andy Herzhog of Austria in 1990, but you know, there we go.

Andrew's had a tough time of late.

Spurs have had a tough time of late.

You could say it's very Spursy, to use a phrase I don't particularly like, or a word I don't particularly like, to go well in the cups, you know, to save it all for the cup.

It was a great performance from them, and I think they deserve the victory.

If we're talking, you know,

this balance in the universe that Ange wants, then...

Remember how we used to talk about how

decisions balanced out over a season in this EFL Cup.

The decision offside looks like they didn't have the quality of TV pictures to show he was offside.

It was a slightly grainy image.

So we don't really know whether he was offside.

He's a bit zapruder.

And of course, the non-sending off.

That's the type of decision that in the old days, you would have said, ah, well, you know, that will happen somewhere down.

But now, because of all the focus on refereeing, we are now kicking off into, you know, Liverpool's great

injustice that they've suffered.

Actually,

you know, we should applaud Bergval, who actually, I thought it was funny, at the end, went to the referee, it's almost to say thanks, and almost to apologise to Van Dijk.

Sort of said, look, the first one wasn't a yellow.

He was like, the first one wasn't.

Yeah.

But interestingly, on the laws of the game,

if the it's a bizarre law, but if the ref plays on,

he can only go back and book the player if he thinks it's reckless, right?

Now, whether you think that was reckless or not, I mean, some people will, some people won't.

No, but that seems weird to me.

Like, surely you should just be able to go back and book someone if you've played advantage, right?

I mean, to me, it's an absolute blatant yellow card.

The first one is slightly dubious, but I don't know, Solon, if you feel if you feel totally, you know,

if you feel like this was an absolute outrage.

I mean, I think you'd be within your rights to say he was on the pitch and Simicas wasn't.

And that doesn't feel the right way around at that moment.

Yeah, I think that's the thing to take issue with.

I think I haven't actually seen Back the Challenge, the first yellow card, because surprisingly, surprisingly, it didn't make the highlights.

And I was there in the stadium and I could not tell.

But it's hilarious because you're sitting in this ground and they're singing who's the scouter in the blue for the for like the majority of the game.

And then you get you finish that game and you think Liverpool have been done over by the refs.

So refereeing is poor overall.

I think we don't need to get go down that route.

But also hard, but also very hard.

Like that is also worth it.

Impossible.

But I do think we need to get past this whole English refs for the English league.

Like it's the best league in the world and we've got the best players coming from all over the world to play in it.

So, we therefore should have the best refs from all over the world coming to referee our league.

I just, I can't believe that there is a correlation between being English and being the best ref in the world.

So, on a meritocratic argument, purely, I would, I would change that rule.

And that would be a great idea.

Unfortunately, some of the football public's response to foreigners

would

respond to.

Don't you think people are so frustrated with referees that

that change could be something that there'd be more?

So you'd have like a Premier League of referees then?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, be the best ref in the world.

You can come from anywhere in the world, but come and ref the best league in the world.

I think it's just bizarre that we still have this problem that you have to be English.

And you're always going to say you've got a shit opinion because you haven't done what my team wanted.

So

I take your point, but I think even if you've got ostensibly the best referees in the world, you're still going to get people complaining about refereeing.

I mean, there is Jared Gillett, isn't there, the Australian, and there's an American in the EFL at the moment.

So, you know, there's a trickle, they're trickling in, Silon, just for you.

Should he have been on the pitch?

Should he have scored the goal?

If your game is, if the fact that you're not winning the game is coming down to that moment when all the chances that we did have that weren't high enough quality from what we're used to from our front three, from our midfield, they were off it.

We were really, really missing, I think, Soberslai.

the two last games have shown you that both in terms of him winning the ball back in high positions to then counter and um i also think we have his ability to play passes through the midfield and set up those forward players we're missing that definitely we can talk about the fact whether he was on the pitch or not it was a bit unfair not having cost us on there to defend and it was 11v10 at that point at that moment um but if it's down in that that chance in you know the last 10 minutes of a game we should have done a lot more earlier than that, I think.

There was a wonderful, we've talked about a bit, the goalkeeper.

I mean, he just blew me, he blew me away.

It was just extraordinary how calm he was about the whole thing.

It's just almost like he hadn't been there long enough to realise that, you know, he was making his debut in this game.

Yeah, you know, like, you're meant to be terrified, mate.

Even Beccario is terrifying.

But there was this moment after the game.

I don't know if you saw it, Chris, or if you've seen it since, where he's hugging his sister and his sister is in like floods of tears.

You can't see Kinski's face.

Maybe he is.

Maybe he isn't.

And just just that thing that we sometimes forget about these and like he's 21 he's a baby but still like that journey is extraordinary for him and his family and his friends and we just occasionally forget that these are all people who've been on a journey and that moment for him

versus embracing his sister is just is i mean i burst into tears in a cafe this morning but you know i'm not getting a lot of sleep give me tear up thinking about it it was it was lovely and i think the other thing that was nice was that slavia prague were all over their Instagram telling him that he was the Slavic king and all these wonderful things, which I've never seen actually from

a former team.

So, you know, I think it's, you know, it's probably a testament to someone who seems like a really nice...

fella.

Saw a quick post-match interview with him and Don Solanke as well.

And actually, that's the other thing is like, I'm really here for filling your team with good blokes.

Yeah.

Oh, 100%.

There was another good post-match.

Clive Allen did say to Ange, you know, on a fair and balanced equal day, we would have won 3-0.

You can see Ange did laugh because obviously when he wins, he's really chipper upbeat, the guy we all love.

Should we get to VAR live, John?

I mean, I was so excited.

I was like, I'm excited to see what happens.

Stuart Atwell, we're going to hear what Stuart Atwell's voice is like.

I agree with, like, the piercing whistle into the microphone was a mistake.

I was just thinking, I was just thinking, is any part of him, because Ref's obviously quite serious, is every part of him think it's a time to play it for laughs, you know, to go, hey, good evening, everybody.

What about a pig on onions?

You know, anyone remember peanuts?

I really wanted him to just do some little, you know, do just some light observational stuff.

Yeah, last order's half past 10.

Yeah, I mean, I obviously didn't realise this.

It was going to be the night that we would see this historic occasion.

Him mic't up reminded me of...

Madonna's 1990 blonde ambition tour.

Stuart Atwell in a conical bra would have loved to have seen that, but it would have, you know, strike a pose and all that.

But, um, and do you know what?

He came out, and you obviously, if you ever watch NFL, they all have weirdly, they all have the same voice, don't they?

When it comes to holding the yeah, it's like you're able to do the same generic American voice.

Yeah, Stuart Atwell, I've never known what Stuart Atwell spoke like.

You know, does he speak like Mr.

Bean?

Does he speak like you know, Simon Callow?

Does he

Who's the through the keyhole guy?

Why haven't I got it?

Because Lloyd Grossman, yeah.

Lloyd Grossman, that's what I'd like.

That would be amazing.

And he spoke just like a northern bloke.

And that's it.

Because all referees are northern blokes, aren't they?

That's the thing.

It's just like sort of random

somewhere in the north guy

who sounded very...

who sounded like you know when you pull into uh on a motorway and you've got to pay like one of those,

but you know, but it just sounded like you're in a petrol station or something.

Just really sort of

matter of fact, and you know, can you move your car there, please?

Uh, that type of

it just, yeah.

Do you reckon now, uh, because referees we hear are have an ego?

Uh, that's the, you know, when we hear from inside the PG MOL and some of their weekends away, do you reckon there's some that are working on the voice now?

Do you reckon

that we are going to have the Simon Callow of

the VAR?

I hope they keep it on now for those moments.

You know, when there's sort of like a bit of a tussle and you can see the Rath being like, back off, move away, shut up, believe it.

Just turn the mic on at those moments and get those bits.

They have something.

It's a massive letdown.

And there is a small hope.

It was just a massive letdown.

It was a small hope that it would be that, that it would be mic'd up like in rugby.

So actually, when you're moving about the game, like managing the game you might hear a bit of it now that would have been interesting but you hang on you don't want that you don't want that when you're at the ground huffing and puffing you know

craig pawson just breathing

i go with my 14 year old nephew and he was just like they could have just written that on the screen why did we have yeah why did we have to like have our eardrums pierced by the whistle um and then just saying oh it was he was offside.

They do do it in the A-League in Australia and they're much slicker, actually.

So they will get better.

And and actually i think it probably is on balance quite useful but you know but at the same time you kind of want it for the is that a penalty right at the end where kulasevsky kicks curtis jones or you know why is burgwell still on the pick but you know you i suppose then you just say they'll be talking about every single moment we haven't spoken to a liverpool fan about the contract situation for these three just what how are you feeling generally frustrated at the club It's definitely mismanagement of three of your absolutely integral best players and people who have been been so important to the success of everything that we've done and the thing that we've built over the last few years and to not have

given them offers that were appropriate um that they wanted to sign at the right time i think um is really frustrating i don't really buy into this whole trend i guess the focus on trent and mo

of how they're using the contract.

I think they've been put in difficult positions.

I think they both

would have stayed at the club if they'd been offered the right thing at the right time.

And

I completely understand

the allure of Real Madrid for Trent Alexander Arnold, being a player like he is, growing up and playing for Liverpool since you were a tiny kid, winning everything that you can win and wanting the next challenge in life.

I completely understand that.

And I think it's,

I have a lot of empathy for him in terms of how he's being positioned right now.

And I think it's quite an impossible job for the team around him.

I guess he wants to leave.

He wants to leave, matter of fact.

He wants to go to Real Madrid, is what we're all being told.

And he also wants to leave in a good way, and he doesn't want to be hated by Liverpool fans.

And I think good Liverpool fans won't hate him for it.

I think they understand it.

I think their frustration is at the club.

It was beautiful when his number was up and he was coming on.

There was a massive, it was booze from the Spurs fans, but massive cheers from the away end.

And then they sang Alexander Arnold's song as he came on, as they should.

Yeah, and I think it's just a pretty tricky situation for him.

I suppose to play the devil's advocate, I don't know how much money they're asking for, right?

So they could be asking for the earth.

And then it's not really the club's fault,

I guess, or it's less of the club's fault.

I don't know.

Yeah, I guess it's about when they sign as well, right?

As in like, and the length of the deals that they signed at the time.

And I think having a bit of foresight that they are going to to be some of the best players, and whether they feel that they've been undervalued in those contracts, those previous contracts, like they are completely integral.

Um, and Mo Salah is probably, well, apart from these last two games, his run of form is probably one of the best players.

He is, well, in my opinion, the best player in the world right now, the best player, attacking player in the form that he was in before Manchester United.

And he probably doesn't feel like whatever he's been offered has been reflective of that.

The understanding I have of it is that Liverpool have a very flat payment structure apart from Salah.

Salah is on an enormous wage anyway compared to the rest of them.

His wage obviously on the next contract, his thing appears to be

wage is big but length of contracts as far as I understand.

The thing is if they want to keep Trent to move Trent into that bracket means they'll have to move other players into the bracket because other players will say, hang on, if Trent and Alexander Arnold's on that then I've got to move into that bracket.

I think Virgil Van Dijk probably will stay.

I think that's the idea.

But again, that's

the contract.

The problem you've got with the Trent Alexander Arnold thing is there are certain agitations being made by, well, okay, I'll name him.

Jamie Carragher

has written a couple of things and said a couple of things.

In fact, I was watching Sky, you know, when they do this sort of like Sky almost late nights that follow the

soccer Sunday that goes on all night where they're debating.

And just this idea that he can't understand why Trent wouldn't want to stay at Liverpool to be like Jamie Carragher,

to be beloved around.

Because he's a lot better than Jamie Carragher, wasn't it?

Well, that's

you're absolutely correct, yes.

And he would have never gone to Real Madrid.

Come on, Salon, you all remember those, you remember that, you remember those phone-ins saying, surely we can get Jamie Carragher into England's midfield.

You don't remember those?

I remember those distinctly.

But the issue is that, a great point, Salon, is that, and we had this with gareth bale who's significantly older is gareth bale was like i want to go to real madrid because real madrid are the superstar club and have been since the early 2000s that if you get the chance to join real madrid and you're a footballer

yeah why not join real madrid you know that's the that's the hollywood option that's the that's the toppermost of the proper most it's no i know

it's not liverpool thing they're hollywood whereas gareth bale comes from spurs and they go and you go oh yeah well you could do better whereas when you're jamie carrager you're like nothing's better than liverpool absolutely yeah it's just a different proposition it's a different proposition like you can stay at liverpool for your entire career you can be absolutely adored you can have your name everywhere but that is one option for a football career and if that's what you want and that's important to you and being a one club man then do it and it's beautiful but if that's not actually who you are at your core and what you want from your life and your football career then don't do it inauthentically if he he's young and

you're growing up in this age where you're looking at all the best players in the world, in your probably in your opinion, and all, you know, all the, imagine like all the games of FIFA Trent played as a child.

He was probably Real Madrid or Liverpool, right?

Like this is that, that, to, to then get this offer of you're, you've been in this city your whole life playing for this club.

You are now of...

like the whole world thinks you're good enough to go and play for this idealized football club in Spain.

I wouldn't do it.

But for him, it's something that like,

he's always been on that pedestal.

I completely understand why you want to go.

Well, I wouldn't do it.

One club person, you know, six seasons of college.

I'm not, I'll retire then.

Maybe it's a sign why I didn't make it because I wasn't playing FIFA as Real Madrid, but I did take Alteringham to Division I and treble champions on the Amstrad, which is no mean feat.

I mean, that whole point, I think the interesting thing is because Trent is a, you know, is a scouser and he, you know, he's a, he's one of your own.

that you kind of want him to be like you as a fan.

And it's just his job.

It's like just totally different.

and like i think most fans i think most people listening to this understand that it's a deal you know that's not it's not what you are anymore like you know and jamie carries an everton fan like cara should understand he's an everton fan right but still you know so so like and you you'd never want to get to the end of your career and sit back and go i wish i'd done that when i have a chance and he's done he's won everything that there is to win at liverpool so i i under i don't want him to go i'm not saying this because i i think i am saying this because i understand it and i think a lot of the crap that he's been getting isn't isn't particularly fair Paul Merson always used to say, you know, when you know your granddad, your grandkids sitting on your knee, you want to show, you want to say, look, I won these things.

And you're just like, grandchildren just want sweets from their grandparents.

They do not give a shit.

Whatever you've achieved in your career, they could not give a shit, could they?

Just give me some sweets and some presents.

Anyway, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll preview the FA Cup third round.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable's the leader in the paper tablet category.

Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable Paper Pro move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin.

so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper.

Think and work like a writer, not a texter.

And the battery performance is amazing.

No worries about running out of power before the end of extra time.

The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks.

And if you do need to recharge, you can go from naught to 90% in less than 45 minutes, Barry.

Fantastic.

Why not give it a go for nothing?

You can try Remarkable Paper Pro Move for 100 days for free.

If it's not what you're looking for, get your money back.

Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today.

When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game, you bring your AI game.

Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money, and agents so you can transform tomorrow.

Workday, moving business forever forward.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

It's a great third-round draw, I think.

Arsenal Man United is, of course, course, the big game.

Jamie Jackson writing in The Guardian, John, that manu will listen to serious offers for any of the squad.

I'm sure they've said this before when Ten Hague was there, you know, including Kobi Mainu, Gonacho, Hoyland.

United are not actively seeking to offload the trio.

There is recognition from Big Sir Jim that the club have been poor sellers.

Is it a non-story?

Because, you know...

Well, he's not wrong.

No, no, he's not wrong.

But, you know, every player's available.

If someone bids the right amount, everyone is available, right?

What's this story?

I think the big surprise is that, say, Garnacho and Mainu would be on that list, particularly Maynu,

who hasn't played very well this season until the Liverpool game, I should say, has struggled a bit in coming back from a Euros.

I think you've got this idea that Amarim arrived.

has worked with these players and he's like, I can work with only about four of them.

How do I get money?

We're in this profit and sustainability thing, a pure profit.

Garnacho, you would expect you could sell maybe to athletes to go in Madrid for 60 million or whatever.

And then, you know, Maynu might be another.

And Chelsea are always trying to buy young English talent, aren't they?

Though, would Maynu get into Chelsea's midfield?

Yes, just about.

Though, you know, as a Manchester United fan, as someone from the area, it would be a shame to see someone Maynu leave at, you know, 20 or whatever he is.

It's it's not great.

But this is the problem that Manchester United have got themselves into, and not just to Jim, the Glazers have bequeathed this legacy of

actually, Jim, when you take over, we're in the sell-to-buy era, and that's what he's got to do.

And also, if you if you start sacking managers, or if you give or you don't sack a manager and you give him 250 million to spend and he spends it badly, that's the situation you get yourself in.

It's funny, isn't it?

Man United actually, there should be

positivity after the Liverpool performance, but there's always this

sort of cloud of just doom and nastiness.

But that story as well, all I thought of it is that can't be great for Team Cohesion.

Well, no, I think that's gone out of the window a few years ago.

No, but I agree with you, Chris.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, there's two ways of looking at that.

There is this idea that you're all playing for your futures is a really really old-style way of, you know, did you want to stay at this club?

There's a lot of people who probably don't want to stay at that club.

They want to go into the next place.

You know, they want to go to Real Madrid, but, you know, maybe that isn't happening.

Maybe Garnacho could go to Real Madrid.

It is a problem, isn't it, when you've built the squad as badly as Manchester United have, and then money was always your way out of things, but it isn't the way out of things anymore.

And actually, money not being the way out of things might mean they might do something sensible for once.

But we can't count on that, can we?

Coach their players, yeah.

What would be interesting is if Man United were to win this game, just the impact it would have on Arsenal, given their sort of little guess

that they're in.

The EFL has hit back after Mikel Arteta's comments on the match ball, which we discussed yesterday.

It's disappointing they didn't get a statement from the ball itself.

That's what I would have done.

But the EFL said on Wednesday, all clubs play with the same ball, and it had not received any similar complaints, adding, as is required throughout the professional game the Puma ball used in this season's Carabao Cup and in EFL competition since 21-22 is tested in accordance with the FIFA quality program for footballs that is a thing the FIFA quality program for footballs and it meets the FIFA quality pro standard in addition to the Carabao Cup the same ball has been successfully used in other major European leagues including both Serie A and La Liga and our three divisions in the EFL no wonder Cambridge players are just punting out of the ground all the time All clubs play with the same ball.

And we have received no further comments of this nature following any of the previous 88 fixtures which have taken place in this season's Carabao Cup.

Celeon, you know what a Dulitch Hamlet playing?

Is it the same ball every time?

Do you know?

Yeah, we send our balls off every August to get signed off, Catty, for a while, actually.

Post them off.

to Europe and then they come back the week later and then they're all they've all got a big tick on them and then we're allowed to play with them yeah i do

there is a bit more context to the arteta thing wasn't there like he he mentions it very briefly in like when he's like the details weren't there the ball wasn't like whatever and then carries on and then a journalist came back to him to then ask him about the ball which was then the headline right so yeah i did i did feel from a little bit and also like when you

i don't know just don't so from an arteta point of view just don't say it like you can think that and i think it's fair like sometimes we come in from games and we're like that ball is an absolute nightmares and like i'm pinging it and it's just, you know, I'm over hitting passes.

I'm underhitting passes, whatever.

But then just don't say it in the press because you know what's going to happen.

We did get a lot of feedback from Arsenal fans saying Arteta was specifically asked about the ball by a journalist.

We don't hate Arsenal.

It is important to point that out.

I mean, yeah, you wonder, you know, should the FA just drop in like a medicine ball just for kickoff for Arsenal on Sunday?

Just drop in,

you know, or like a flyaway, you know, where a shoot size five that just, you know, goes everywhere.

Little, yeah, like at a beach ball like on the beach when you uh the inflatable balls and they just zip through the air um anyway it was funny um uh villa west ham west ham finally confirmed the news that everyone knew already by announcing that julian lopategui was sacked yesterday afternoon he did take training in the morning um the first half of the 24-25 season has not aligned with the club's ambitions and the club has therefore taken action in line with its objectives uh also parted company with his backroom staff uh head of performance head analyst fitness coach technical coach so they really didn't align did it um the board would like to thank them all and wish them every success for the future as they have to say um uh apparently tim steiton the uh uh perform what's he the director of football i'd sporting director he may also leave but graham potter signed a two and a half year deal we're pleased to see graham potter back in the the the top flight chris yeah i mean look you know he's a good manager you know and and and and it's weird that he's been out of out of work for so long when you've seen like a you know people going to different places i mean like the thing for west ham is like is the manager the issue i think is probably the question that i would ask but i mean i guess we'll see have you seen that there's a six-month break clause in the contract well both ways is it yeah that's what i can't i don't know is it graham potter has said i want a six month break clause in case this club is in absolute shambles and i'm miserable or it's like it's like when you sign a like you know a lease on a flat it's like well if there's damp

I'll move out in six months and find somewhere else.

But like, maybe, maybe it was Potter's side that asked for the six months.

If they find out that, you know, yeah, Fabianski or Paquetta has black moulds growing and they just say, I can't work, I can't work with these players.

What about you, John?

I mean, there aren't that many English managers in the top flight.

I don't know if that's something that exercises you or not.

Obviously, a lot was made over Tuchel's appointment.

Maybe the third?

No, not.

I mean,

one of the other English coaches is our hero Sean Dice, of course.

Of course.

Yeah, and I don't think anyone's going to tip him for the England job in the future,

sad as that is.

Graham Potter's an interesting case, isn't it?

Because

he rose very quickly.

You know, he was at Swansea very briefly.

Brighton, he got a lot of plaudits.

And then, as someone who worked on the analytical side, Chelsea, Chelsea's new owners, and they were new owners, fell in love with the idea of this guy, prepared to work with this technical approach.

But anyone that had watched Brighton would know that they weren't very good at winning games, they drew a lot of them, uh, and the football they played was not that exciting.

And Graham Posser himself

is a very well-dressed man, quite a good-looking man, but he's not that exciting, he's a very polite man.

Uh, in fact, he's a really nice guy, um,

and at West Ham

Okay, what have we got at West Ham?

Uh, West Ham got rid of David Moyce, who's been their most successful manager since John Lyle, and he left because it was felt that the club needed to move on to a more exciting era.

So they got an even less exciting manager in Lopotegui, who is a fairly defensive Spanish coach.

And now they're going to get Graeme Potter.

I don't think Graeme Potter is going to bring back the West Ham Way.

But the West Ham Way, when was the last time we saw that?

Maybe Slav and Billich, when Payette was about for, say, six months, when they played sort of off the cuff football.

But this is not an era for off-the-cuff football.

They'll go down if they play off-the-cuff football.

So you bring in a technical coach like Graeme Potter, who I believe is well known to the club, and they've been stuck in each other for quite a while.

He's a good manager.

They'll probably finish mid-table.

Are West Ham fans satisfied with mid-table?

In the heart of hearts, probably most of them are.

And then some of them won't like it.

But that's just West Ham.

That's just a football club.

He's a fairly middling appointment, isn't he?

He gives good presentation.

My God, he can do a flowchart.

He's the type of guy that football clubs like, but the combination of him and David Sullivan, of course, who is still the main decision maker, that's the interesting one.

And the mention of the sporting director,

that's a relationship that hasn't gone well because he and David Moyes didn't hit it off.

Then there was his story on Monday that Lopotegui had locked him out of the training ground.

He wasn't allowed to go there.

He was just banging on them.

And then Lopotegui gets banging on the gates.

Yeah, just like the securities weren't allowed to let him in.

And then

now he's gone.

Now Lopotegui's gone.

And starting, we don't know.

West Ham, it's always interesting in a certain sense.

There's always something going on.

I'm slightly surprised if Sack to manager so early in the season because it's not always been David Sullivan's raising detre.

It's always interesting, apart from on the pitch, it isn't often that interesting,

I would say.

You know, that's sort of the least interesting part of what sort of West Ham deliver over a season.

Anyway, watching them play, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

We mentioned Spurs and Liverpool.

They both have the potential to be the story this weekend.

Spurs going to Tamworth.

Liverpool home to Accrington Stanley.

I mean, this is all about the milk advert.

Is this...

Are we all across the milk?

I don't know when it stopped being on tele Ceylon.

I guess you...

Is it before your time?

Yeah.

The advert

someone older than me has told me about this before but i can't recall it i'm afraid yeah um it's because uh well it's definitely in our wheelhouse you know it's it's one little boy and he's drinking milk and you can only see one scouser and there's another little boy and he's drinking milk and the guy off camera goes milk that's disgusting and he says you know and he and and he's like he says it's what ian ross drinks and they go if you and ian rush i'll stop being scouser you know and hean and he says if you if i don't drink milk i'll only be good enough to play for accrington stanley and he goes Acronym and Stanley, who are they exactly?

And then during soccer AM, whenever we played Akron Stanley, we'd have like that big sound effect.

We'd just go, Ackrington and Stanley, who are they exactly?

Who are they?

And now they play each other at Anfield.

So great news for milk, I would say.

Great for milk and good to you know, rehash the advert and get a whole new generation of milk supporters on board.

Is milk good or bad?

I mean, I'm not sure where milk is on the culture wars.

I know some milks are bad, but it's a good idea.

Oh, milk is a big deal with the culture wars.

Yeah, I know.

Pasteurized, unpasteurised, like a bit of art.

Oh my god.

Okay.

Yeah, don't ask RFK Jr.

about that.

Okay, well,

he wasn't my first port of call.

I'll be brutally honest.

But anyway,

some of my best friends are milk.

Some of my best friends are milk.

I don't really cancel because of milk.

The one thing to say is about Accrington Stanley is Ackrington Stanley is a club with deep roots in Liverpool and Merseyside.

A lot of the players and the staff and even the ownership are from the Liverpool area and they used to, pretty much, I think they train in Liverpool and then go and play in Accrington.

It's always had that big link.

So it will be for one better phrase, but good scouts love in that way.

Good.

Morecom go to Chelsea.

Chelsea being linked with re-signing Mark Gay or recalling Trevor Chalabar.

Either way, Palace won't be too pleased with that.

Manchester City at home to Salford City, the class city versus the class of 92, John.

That's good, isn't it?

Well, it is.

It's like the real Manchester Derby because those in Salford, which is in Greater Manchester, don't consider themselves to be in Manchester.

So it's some sort of

freedom-fighting thing.

It's a Lancashire hot pot.

Could we call it that?

Could you say that?

Well,

Salford people are very, very insistent that they are from Salford and not Manchester.

Is that still Lancashire or?

No, they're just from Salford.

It's a bit.

Where are you from, Salford, as in Salford.

There's nothing beyond Salford people.

Can we be, you know, you can't be anti-Salford?

You know, you're allowed to say that sort of thing, John.

My parents met in Salford.

Ah, how beautiful.

How lovely.

There you go.

John Bruin made in Salford.

Leeds Harrogate is proper Yorkshire, isn't it?

Could you get, you know, that's a great Yorkshire game, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's posh.

Exactly, isn't it?

It's posh against Metropolitan.

Tesco versus Waitrose, that every day of the week.

It's actually booths.

The Yorkshire Supercommercial.

It's booths.

It's like a level.

Ah, very good.

Stop it.

Is it?

Yeah, yeah, booths.

If you can ever get yourself to a booths, oh, it's a beautiful experience.

Okay.

Okay, well, that's good to know, isn't it?

To move on a football align from that.

Pressbury, which is the Cheshire village where Rooney used to live and a lot of the footballers live,

they got a booth to show that they were moving up.

in the world you see so there we are uh bromley go to st james's park to play newcastle uh plymouth go to Brentford.

Everton versus Peterbury.

It could be Ashley Young against his son, Tyler Young, which should be absolutely amazing.

Wow.

Wouldn't it?

And you sort of, I was thinking about this, like, you know, what happens if they, you know, do you fly in two-footed against your son?

Do you think yes, Sillon?

I think your son, I think your son goes in against your dad.

Yeah, definitely.

If your dad's

Ashley Young, you're going in two-footed, definitely.

Do you reckon?

There's got to be some Oedipal stuff going on.

Oh, I'd love to.

i'd love to analyze that one

but then like what if there's like you know if if like your teammate headbutts your dad do you go and like that but do you go and who are you pulling away and who are you saying you know because i if somebody headbutted my dad i would i would come to his defense you know i guess it would be the response would be probably a good reflection on uh how tyler has experienced parenting over the last hundred years whether he if he backs him you'll see you know they've got a beautiful relationship.

If he doesn't back him, then

ask some questions.

Anyway, yeah,

I think it, well, fascinating to see.

Swansea home to Southampton, as well as another possible giant killing, if we could call it that.

Anyway, all those kai's to be played, the weekend commencing, whatever this weekend is.

And that'll do for part two.

We'll do any other business in part three.

HiPod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category.

Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable Paper Pro move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist mate.

Exactly.

Too much technology draws us in and shuts the world out.

This paper tablet doesn't.

It'll never beat or buzz to try and grab your attention so you can devote your focus to what or who is in front of you.

It has a display that looks, feels and even sounds like paper.

Think and work like a writer, not a texter.

And the battery performance is amazing.

No worries worries about running out of power before the end of extra time.

The Remarkable Paper Pro Move can keep going for up to two weeks.

And if you do need to recharge, you can go from naught to 90% in less than 45 minutes, Barry.

Fantastic.

Why not give it a go for nothing?

You can try Remarkable Paper Pro Move for 100 days for free.

If it's not what you're looking for, get your money back.

Visit remarkable.com to learn more and get your paper tablet today.

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better, clean and cold water?

Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold.

Butter?

Yep.

Chocolate ice cream?

Sure thing.

Barbecue sauce?

Tide's got you covered.

You don't need to use warm water.

Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new Cold Zyme technology.

Just remember, if it's got to be clean, it's got to be Tide.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

A bit of big international managerial news.

Didier Deschamp will step down after the 2026 World Cup.

Philippe will be doing cartwheels, despite the trophies that he's won.

He never really believed in him.

Meanwhile, Patrick Cliver has been appointed the new manager of where?

Anybody know?

International.

Oh, I saw this.

You're going to need to.

I'm going to need to have a country, Salon.

I can't take that as an answer.

South Korea.

Indonesia.

Yes.

There we are.

Hopefully, we'll speak to Paul Watson about the state of Indonesian football

in the next pod, next international break.

Salon, you wanted to talk about Paul Barber joining Football Beyond Borders.

Tell us.

Yes.

Paul is the current chief executive and deputy chairman at Brighton.

And we have just appointed him as our new non-exec chair, so our chair of trustees.

And we're absolutely delighted.

Yeah, we announced it this week.

It was a really lovely interview with Ed Ahrens in The Guardian

about why this is important to Paul.

And we're

really lucky, I think, to have got Paul to lead us through the next few years.

He's someone who has a brilliant reputation in football.

He kind of combines,

yeah, excellent high standards for his club and how he's kind of built Brighton and taken them from League One all the way up into the Premier League and not just kind of sat with being a

newly promoted Premier League team, but always pushing and pushing and pushing over the last, however, however long they've been in the Prem, right?

And trying to push for top half and push for Europe.

And I think not just resting on your laurels is a wonderful thing and doing those things on a bit of a tighter budget than other teams.

There's so much that we can learn from in terms of running and leading a charity at scale.

And investing in the women's team as well, hasn't he?

They've been bright and yeah, they're going to have the purpose-built stadium,

first club to do that.

So there's that side of things in terms of what you want from a leader, but then there's also his personal connection to what we do,

his focus on relationships.

We're all about young people having access to a trusted adult through their

time in secondary school.

And football is a brilliant way to do that.

And he talks in that interview really beautifully about him being a teenager when his parents split up and how that kind of led him down one path.

And actually, it was football that really helped him stay on the right track and do well in school.

And yeah, so I think he's spent a lot of time with our team.

He's spent a few days in schools, met a lot of our young people.

And we're really, really excited about where he's going to take us.

Sure.

And just, you know, there was a lot of assumed knowledge in that question, which is some people listening will not know who Football Borders are, but you work for them, etc.

So, like, just give people that background.

Yeah, so Football Blue Borders, we are an education charity.

We work across London and the southeast, Birmingham and the West Midlands, and then Manchester and integrated Manchester and a little bit of Merseyside as well.

And our whole vision is of a country where every young person has a trusted adult through their side in adolescence.

And we think there's about a million young people who don't have that at the moment and therefore aren't on track to get their GCSEs and finish

mainstream education.

So our job is to come in, use football as the initial hook, build the relationship and support that young person to thrive in school.

get their GCSEs in English and maths.

And yeah, Paul's going to be

our new chair for the next few years.

So we're really excited.

That's great.

And

how's Dalt Chamlet going?

I saw you played at the Abbey.

That's great surface there, isn't it?

Max, it was beautiful.

It was beautiful to play at that stadium.

And we won 2-0.

It was brilliant to get the win.

Yeah, it's a mixed season.

It's a newly promoted season for us.

So we've had some really good results and we've had some poorer results.

And at the moment, we're getting a bit battered by the weather conditions.

So we've got a friendly tonight against Charlton under 21s who i don't know if any of those players will be prepping for a big fa cup fixture uh this sunday against chelsea maybe some of them might get get a call up onto the bench um so we've got that tonight and then you know not not too many games left in this this side of the season but um we will see big fixture this for us this month is going to norwich away so hopefully get a result there All right.

Nathan's been in touch to say, Max, I leapt for my phone at the mention of my town Berry St Edmunds on yesterday's pod.

I'm sad to report that Rollerberry, which is just for those who weren't listening yesterday where I learnt to roller skate, is no more, having closed in 2001.

The building has been demolished and is now a block of flats.

This also means the nightclub Brasilia's is no longer, which may come as sad news to me.

No, I went to Brasilia's when I was about 19.

So you're not there anymore, yeah.

Was it a good night?

I had a mate who lived in Berry St Edmunds.

Yeah, I remember there was WKD and Mad Dog 2020 involved.

Oh, God.

What a terrible night.

I mean, that is such a bleak night, isn't it?

Oh, the smirk-off ice years were not good.

Anyway, he says, on the off chance that this is read out on the pod, please accept the customary thanks to all of you for the excellent work you do.

I've listened for many years.

It's number one on my pod list every week.

As an Ipswich Town fan, Liam DeLap for England.

I look forward to the debate next summer as to whether Thomas Tuchel left it too late to sub off an ineffective Harry Kane for Liam DeLap as England stumbled past the aging Croatians.

All of us, thank you, Nathan.

And Stuart says, having just listened to your Christmas show, show, I've realised that I was not the only person to blag my way into the press box for Cambridge's FA Cup quarterfinal game against Crystal Palace in 1990, as my dad did.

At the time, I was working as a sports reporter for the now defunct Kentish Times, primarily covering Gravesend and North Fleet, as they were known then.

But as a Palace fan, desperate to get to the game, I used the cover of the Kentish Times, having a Bromley edition to snag two tickets for myself and a friend.

I'm sorry to say that I rather disgraced myself by standing and punching the air when Jeff Thomas's bobbled shot trickled in.

As a supposed professional, I should have been bound by Plato's advice in the Republic concerning the golden meme, the desirability of living between the two extremes of joy and despair.

But as we both know, FA Cup quarterfinals are as rare for clubs like ours as seeing a man reading philosophy at a football game.

Best Stuart, thank you, Stuart.

Thanks for everyone who gets in touch.

The email address, as always, is football weekly at theguardian.com.

And that'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Chris.

Nice to see you, Max.

Yeah, come on, you spares.

I said, you're always smiling, but you could legitimately smile for this pod.

I suspect if we put the same team together in a month's time, then Salon will be smiling.

But you never know.

Thank you, Salon.

Thank you, guys.

Nice to see you.

Cheers, John.

Thanks for having me.

Bubble Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

This is The Guardian.