Another Newcastle v Liverpool classic and Chelsea up to second – Football Weekly Extra

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Speaker 30 Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, one of the games of the season at St James's Park, a 90s Newcastle-Liverpool throwback, Fabian Scher, somehow squeezing home a last-minute equalizer after Mo Sala had just done some Mo Salaring twice.

Speaker 4 Chelsea a second. How about some taking them seriously? Title Challengers.

Speaker 30 Chat question mark after an unsurprising hammering of Southampton.

Speaker 41 Cookarella's hair just too tempting for Jack Stevens.

Speaker 30 Speaking of unsurprising, there's Arsenal being good at set pieces and Spurs being bad at, well, football.

Speaker 4 Pep gets back on the horse and back down the running order at home to Forest.

Speaker 28 Everson scored four brackets.

Speaker 42 four goals in a game.

Speaker 4 That's four more than they scored last month.

Speaker 7 So there's pressure on Gary O'Neill and pressure on Julian Lopotegui as west ham do virtually nothing at rudes leicester and there are good wins for fulham villa and palace after that we'll discuss the fallout of the rainbow laces controversy there's a brilliant fa cup third round draw and a club world cup draw too hashtag take it to the world whatever it is this is the guardian football weekly

Speaker 15 on the panel today jordan jarrett brian welcome morning mate hello troy townsend i'm ax

Speaker 28 And hello, Barry Glendenning.

Speaker 15 Hello, Max Russian.

Speaker 44 You might notice there was no plus your questions during the intro.

Speaker 39 That's because the Guardian Journalists were on strike on Wednesday and Thursday, so we didn't put anything out on social media.

Speaker 28 We didn't do a pod on Wednesday or Thursday.

Speaker 35 And we obviously don't often do a pod on a Friday, but we had put this Friday in the diary before the strike action was called. because of the Thursday night games.

Speaker 35 If you're wondering why we are doing a pod at all today, let's start at St.

Speaker 26 James's Park.

Speaker 28 Newcastle 3, Liverpool 3.

Speaker 43 It's an open goal question, Barry, but what a brilliant game this was.

Speaker 15 Yeah, probably the best of the season so far. Real humdinger from two sides who've provided us with plenty of them in the past.

Speaker 15 And it was sort of a hark back to the 90s, wasn't it, when they were drumming up thriller after thriller, it seemed, like Michael Jackson.

Speaker 15 This game, it had pretty much everything. I think both teams will feel they probably should have won.
I think the points are pretty good result for both of them.

Speaker 15 There were lots of contentious decisions, good goals, near misses.

Speaker 15 Just a real white-knuckle ride. I really, really enjoyed it.
Yeah, Newcastle, I don't know what to make of them this season.

Speaker 15 We've seen the very worst of them and the very best of them and somewhere in between in their last three games.

Speaker 15 you know obviously this is a good result for arsenal and chelsea and man city but while Liverpool could, they pretty much threw it away with that Queen Keller mistake right at the death.

Speaker 15 I think the point at St. James's Park is okay.

Speaker 28 Yeah, I mean, given where they are in the league and their lead, I think you're probably right.

Speaker 50 And Troy, I'm trying to work out how Fabian Scher squeezed that in.

Speaker 18 I mean, like...

Speaker 42 999 times out of 1,000, he is not scoring that goal, however big a mistake it was from Keller.

Speaker 1 I think Mo Salah asked him the question at the end of the game as well, like, how did you squeeze that in? How did you get that in? Listen, it's a great finish.

Speaker 1 It's, you know, it's what they call not even a poacher's goal, is it? Because he's got no right on putting it in from there. And

Speaker 1 it seemed to go in slow motion as well. But listen, he tracked the run of the ball, which Keller didn't.
He made his dive to, you know, his effort to try and squeeze it in, and he did it.

Speaker 1 It was an accomplished finish by a centre half. I think he'll be very pleased because he'll probably be very disappointed that Mo Salah got himself on the score sheet twice.

Speaker 1 Listen, Mo Sella was great in both the goals, Trent involved in both the goals, but they'll probably be disappointed there. But I think, like Barry said, it's only what Newcastle deserve.

Speaker 1 They put a lot of effort into the game.

Speaker 1 And remember, they're taking on the Liverpool side that is flying, a Liverpool side that didn't really wake up in the first half, but definitely turned the screw in the second half.

Speaker 1 And yeah, at one point, you think 3-2 that Liverpool are going to win it. But well done.

Speaker 15 Cher.

Speaker 35 Yeah, you did call him Keller.

Speaker 53 And it's just worth pointing out that it wasn't casey keller that uh arna slotted uh drafted in to to not catch that cross but we've all said that keller has had a brilliant season for liverpool so far and so we don't need to hammer him too much newcastle jordan really took it to liverpool which given their form i thought was really impressive yeah i mean barry mentioned that they're a bit of a bit of an odd team that they've had a bit of an odd season in that They've taken points from Manchester City, Liverpool and Arsenal, my lot this season, Yet they got really comfortably beaten, I thought, at home to West Ham the other day.

Speaker 53 And they've dropped some other really, what I think they would describe as cheap points this season. I had Newcastle finishing in the top five this season.

Speaker 53 I look at their squad when everybody's fit and that's an important caveat to add. And I like their squad.

Speaker 53 They've got a really balanced squad that on paper, and I accept football's not played on paper, should do a lot better than they are currently doing. They've got some power in midfield.

Speaker 53 They've got some guile in midfield. They've got, for me, the second best striker in the league up top defensively.
I think they're good without being necessarily great.

Speaker 53 So their season for me was almost encapsulated in this one 3-3 game.

Speaker 53 But just quickly on Liverpool as well, I thought that the point they've got, they'll be disappointed because the way it happened in the end, but there will be certain games you'll tick off and think to yourself, you know what?

Speaker 53 St. James's Park away, if we can get a point there, it's not on paper, again, the worst point that you can take.
It feels bad at the time, of course, because of how it happens.

Speaker 53 And I think the Ease at Go Come back to Newcastle might be the best thing.

Speaker 28 That's unbelievable.

Speaker 53 That might be my favorite goal of the season so far this season. I love that goal.
I don't love him.

Speaker 47 He's a tremendous player.

Speaker 39 Baz, Mo Sala, I have no questions.

Speaker 54 I don't know what to ask.

Speaker 23 Even he's great, isn't he?

Speaker 26 I just don't know what to ask.

Speaker 14 Now, he didn't have a brilliant first hour, really.

Speaker 5 And then he just totally turned it on.

Speaker 15 Yeah, totally turned it on. He scored two, created one, hit the angle of the bar and post with a shot.
And

Speaker 15 I have a certain level of agreement with people who think it would be rash to put a

Speaker 15 blank contract in front of him and let him add the and his agent add the number. But

Speaker 15 because we have seen in the past how quickly aging players, how quickly their legs can go and they lose their mojo, but But on current form, there's no one better than him in the Premier League, really.

Speaker 15 The way he seemed to just come alive in this game. Normally, if you're having a bad game, it stays bad.

Speaker 15 But he, as you say, had a very quiet hour and then was just outstanding for the final 30 minutes.

Speaker 15 So it's a nice pickle for Liverpool to be in, wondering, you know, whether or not to give him the deal he wants.

Speaker 28 Jordan had his hand up before Choice.

Speaker 15 Oh, sorry, I didn't know that.

Speaker 53 Where you turn, Townsend.

Speaker 28 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 15 i'd just like to point out for the benefit of listeners that max is wearing his television shirt and seems to have turned into fiona brew some questions

Speaker 28 yeah man in the white t-shirt

Speaker 53 um where's the microphone um i just to add to barry's point just briefly he's what salah's doing he's figuratively kind of grabbing the liverpool board by the collar and pushing them up against the against the wall and basically saying give me my money pay me my money his performances have been so good in recent weeks.

Speaker 53 I agree with Barry. This whole paying what you want stuff, I just think is really weird.
It's a really weird take to kind of, you know, just take someone, you know, name your price.

Speaker 53 That's not how business works. But he is making it very, very hard for Liverpool to almost not give him what he wants by the way that he's performing.

Speaker 1 Troy. My points are irrelevant now, so let's move on, Max.

Speaker 15 Why are they irrelevant?

Speaker 28 Man in the roll neck.

Speaker 15 Man in the roll neck in the middle of the Zoom call.

Speaker 1 No, I was going to talk.

Speaker 1 i was going to talk about a little bit more about his performance um remember he flashed that shot against the bar as well um i just think that with with salah and this is why i think he was getting a little bit disappointed with jürgen clock last year because he is never out of the game no matter what his performance may be no matter what people think sometimes or management thinks sometimes that he's not involved we'll get someone else on he proved he proved with the way that he switched it on the other night and he proved that he you can never keep this guy quiet And as well as Newcastle had done up to that point, I think Barry mentioned about the 60th odd minute for the next 29 minutes or whatever else, he was just electric and you can't buy that.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I understand the narrative around the contract, but I can't believe a football club would leave someone like Mo Salah and Mo Salah or Virgil Van Dijk down to this moment in time.

Speaker 1 Because remember, come January, there'll be those that are coming in and offer him some kind of silly money.

Speaker 1 i believe he does want to stay but you know sometimes your heads as we know can be turned um but i hope we keep him in the premier league because we're losing too many good talents anyway and most salary is up there right about now with just the best a couple of contentious moments baz i think newcastle wanted a penalty i wasn't quite sure it was one of those if it's given it's going to stay given if it isn't but i did think van dijke knew exactly he did it brilliantly but i thought he knew exactly what he was doing when he took anthony gordon out and like he's so much bigger than anthony gordon line just sort of felt a little bit rude.

Speaker 15 Yeah, that should undeniably have been a penalty for Newcastle, which if scored would have put them 2-0 up. Whether or not it was a red card, I think no.

Speaker 15 And then there was another one when Jarrett Kwanzaa put his leg across Alexander Isaac.

Speaker 15 He did bring him down, but I think crucially he got a toe to the ball before Quanza went over his leg. So I wouldn't have given a penalty for that one.

Speaker 15 And then there was a suggestion Liverpool might have had a penalty for a late Dan Byrne handball when a McAllister shot hit his hand, but his arm was tucked in by his chest, so that would have been very harsh.

Speaker 15 I think it would have been given in a Champions League game, but not in the Premier League, the greatest league in the world.

Speaker 28 Absolutely.

Speaker 42 Well, well done, all of them, for providing all that entertainment.

Speaker 43 It's a brilliant game.

Speaker 57 Let's do Chelsea, who are up to second.

Speaker 51 They hammered Southampton 5-1.

Speaker 39 Which Jordan isn't a surprise, is it?

Speaker 29 But, you know, Maresco changed it up.

Speaker 5 Felix played and Cuckoo played. Toyson played.

Speaker 7 They brought in a goalkeeper who I hadn't heard of, despite probably watching him about 20 times for Villarreal.

Speaker 28 Are they title challengers?

Speaker 22 Is my question.

Speaker 53 So I'm glad you've asked that because this is really irking me, right?

Speaker 53 This whole Chelsea are in the title race because I think we have to separate the questions, are Chelsea in the title race, from should we take Chelsea serious as potential Premier League winners?

Speaker 53 Because if the question is, are they in the title race? Well, technically, yeah. I look at it like an Olympic 100-metre final race.
I've got Usain Bolt to my right. I've got Carl Lewis to my left.

Speaker 53 I'm in the race. I ain't winning that race.
I'm not winning that. There's no way I'm winning that race, but I'm in the race.

Speaker 28 You might have Carl Lewis now. I mean, Carl Lewis must be at 70-odd, mustn't he?

Speaker 53 Well, you'd be surprised. I'm pretty slow, Max.
But I hear people say, yeah, they're in the race. They're in the race because they're second.

Speaker 53 And I'm like, but if you replace Chelsea with Ipswich, we would never take Ipswich seriously as title contenders.

Speaker 28 So, but they're not second, Ipswich aren't second.

Speaker 53 No, but the point I'm making is that people make the argument because Chelsea are currently second.

Speaker 53 And I'm saying, just because you're second, doesn't mean we should take you seriously as title contenders.

Speaker 53 Liverpool and Arsenal have seriously have serious pedigree, recent experience, and managers that have been there in the last few years. They know how to get it done.

Speaker 53 Chelsea are playing really, really well. They're surprising me.
My hands are up.

Speaker 53 They're outperforming what I thought they would do this year. But this narrative that Chelsea are, you know, serious title contenders for me, I find quite bizarre.

Speaker 53 So if we're going to be pedantic, are they in the race? Okay, yeah, they are. Am I taking them seriously as potential Premier League winners? No, not for me, Clive.

Speaker 28 Anyone else want to upgrade their thoughts?

Speaker 1 Well, I don't understand.

Speaker 1 What makes them any different in their position with an identical record to Arsenal, but with two goals more with a much bigger squad, a squad that actually has been utilized very well.

Speaker 1 Mareska has done very well in utilizing a squad in Europe and making them fresh and again, you know, as many teams did in midweek, make some significant changes.

Speaker 1 I mean, if you're going to make changes, you can away at Southampton. And then Stevens adds to the equation because he likes Coquerilla's hair.

Speaker 1 They have to be in with a shout.

Speaker 1 And obviously, the most important moments will be against the most important teams in the league and whether they get those results that require to stamp, put the stamp on it that they are uh in with a shout at the moment you have to say they are and whether they're in the race or not they're above man city they're above arsenal even though it's by goal difference and they deserve to be there i'm not a chelsea fan and stated on another pod how much i wasn't interested in chelsea this season because of their handing off fernandez but they're making sure that you cannot deny that they're a quality side with a quality squad that are making waves at the moment and are deservedly in in with a shout.

Speaker 28 Another pod. You weren't on the ramble, were you?

Speaker 52 Because, you know,

Speaker 15 don't want to talk about that.

Speaker 28 Not our fault. It's our listeners' fault.

Speaker 52 Barry, we have talked about the disadvantages of having long hair, Balfass, Felainy, etc.

Speaker 33 But there's no way Jack Stevens can do that if Cookarella has a short back and side.

Speaker 12 It sort of reminded me of Dooglin Father Ted.

Speaker 43 I think he's on a plane and there's a big red button and a sign that says, do not press this button.

Speaker 18 And he's just staring at it. You You know, you could just see Jack Stevens going, oh, and then he just couldn't help himself.

Speaker 15 Yeah, it was a really dumb thing for him to do. Jack Stevens has already been sent off this season for, I think it was a bad foul on tackle on Garinacho in a game against Manchester United.

Speaker 15 And such was the emphaticness of his protests at this completely reasonable decision, as I recall, that he got an additional two games on top of his three so he's he's already done a five match ban

Speaker 15 and now he'll get four for this so that's nine games he's missed and he's Southampton's captain I think that's really just

Speaker 15 really poor discipline bordering on outright stupidity but anyway he's done it now so and any slim chance Southampton had of rescuing anything from that game they were three one down when he he decided to have a lit Together Cucarilla's hair.

Speaker 15 And like they weren't even contesting a ball or anything at the time. It was just, you know, something to do.
There's, like you say, do not pull my hair. Oh, I can't resist.

Speaker 53 I just want to briefly add on this hair thing as well, because

Speaker 53 I think for a lot of people, it is quite, it's not a big deal, but maybe I'm sensitive because I've got particularly long hair. I've got dreadlocks.

Speaker 53 I don't think we should be dismissing pulling somebody's hair because for a lot of people, the hair is a very personal part of their body. And I think that this is twice as happened now.

Speaker 53 And I really feel like

Speaker 53 you wouldn't go around cupping somebody's nether regions and we would be giggling about it. Maybe some people would.

Speaker 53 For some people, not only does it hurt to have your hair pulled, but it's actually really disrespectful. It's really, really out of order.

Speaker 53 And I really think something needs to be done now about this sort of thing happening. I think somebody was saying it constitutes violent conduct.

Speaker 53 I'm not quite sure if I put it it in that bracket, but it's something that I think has been made light of that I don't think is a light-hearted thing.

Speaker 53 Am I making sense for that?

Speaker 18 You are, I know what you mean, but at the same time, pulling someone's hair is just, it's so playground, right?

Speaker 57 It's so like what you did to your sister when you were seven.

Speaker 41 And I think that is,

Speaker 62 that's why it's sort of inverted commas funny.

Speaker 5 I take your point totally.

Speaker 23 And at the same time, do watch it and think, you know, I hadn't pulled anyone's hair since my sister Susie was six do you know what i mean and she was can canning at me or something you know and i was like get away from me um

Speaker 43 uh there's a question on southampton troy and playing out right obviously they like to play out and obviously people play out but we saw this with joe lumley we saw it with the bruggin for brighton we saw it with forster for spurs the goal that was disallowed for offside That pass, which is straight to a centre midfielder who is sprinting towards you, right, is in something like that.

Speaker 55 It's such a hard pass to pull off.

Speaker 11 And then even if you do,

Speaker 59 like, the midfielder's got to be so good to take it and turn or go nowhere.

Speaker 60 It's like, fine, play out. That's fine.

Speaker 55 But that pass seems total madness.

Speaker 1 I agree with you, Max.

Speaker 1 I'm interested in the teams that don't mix up how they do play out from the back.

Speaker 1 We saw...

Speaker 1 quite a number of mistakes as you've highlighted there this this week alone you know from clubs that are persisting in it but let's get this straight southampton have won one game this season.

Speaker 1 They're following in the line of Vincent company, who wanted to consistently play out with Burnley and the mistakes that are being made there.

Speaker 1 At what stage do you realize that the players around you are not good enough to do it? And it has to be highlighted.

Speaker 1 A lot of the players are not even sprinting towards the goalkeeper or the centre-back. They're ambling without even recognizing that they are going to teams have worked it out.

Speaker 1 So they're going to be pressed. They're going to be squeezed high.

Speaker 1 And like you've just said there, you've got to have some ability to pop it off first time or to keep control of the ball and spin round it and if i'm a manager at that level whilst that is my philosophy you you have to be able to change it up when you realize your team is not able to consistently play the way that you want to play and that's why southampton are bottom and that's why some other teams are conceding lots of goals just silly goals really because this fascination in doing it.

Speaker 1 And everyone blames Pearp or blames Arsene Wenger or blames other managers, but they had the quality of player, but also the foresight to go, do you know what?

Speaker 1 We've been pressed very high by four centre-forwards who are not going to let us play out. So let's miss them all out and drop something into one of our centre-forwards or a wide player.

Speaker 1 It should be as simple as that.

Speaker 58 I feel, Troy, that while we were talking about Southampton there, you were really talking about Spurs.

Speaker 15 And I hear you. Preach, brother.
Preach.

Speaker 15 We'll get to that.

Speaker 40 Arsenal beat Man United do-il.

Speaker 44 They've got 22 goals from corners since the start of last season.

Speaker 56 Miles more than any other Premier League side.

Speaker 28 What new do we have to say, Barry?

Speaker 15 Again, I'm sorry about this. Well,

Speaker 15 I think it was Dimitar Burbatov after this game compared them to Stoke, Rory DeLapiera, Pulisiera Stoke, when they terrorised everyone with long throws.

Speaker 15 And I think a lot of Arsenal fans, because they all hate Stoke, obviously, took grave exception to being

Speaker 15 likened to these uncouth ruffians from the Britannia Stadium but I could totally see his point because

Speaker 16 it's at the point now where if Arsenal

Speaker 15 get a corner other teams are visibly terrified and they're totally preoccupied with Arsenal having corners, not giving away corners and they're panicking and then they're giving away cheap corners.

Speaker 15 And in Bukaya Saka and Declan Rice,

Speaker 15 Arsenal have two brilliant corner takers. Sakas tend to go long rices to the near post and then they have all the

Speaker 15 jiggery pokery going on in the penalty area, legal, much of it legal, much of it grey area, some of it downright illegal.

Speaker 15 But there's so much going on, as we said, it's hard for the officials to keep tabs on everything.

Speaker 15 And in this game, they scored from two corners and they could have scored from

Speaker 15 four more, I think. Rice almost scored direct from a corner.
Party missed a glorious opportunity very early. I think it was their first corner.

Speaker 15 Martinelli fired over from a corner that wasn't cleared properly. It's a lethal weapon and a great one to have in your armoury.

Speaker 63 The Spanish Cometry started doing Comet started doing the duals theme when they got a corner.

Speaker 28 It was absolutely brilliant.

Speaker 57 You started going done.

Speaker 28 Why doesn't everyone do it, Jordan?

Speaker 6 Is it just the delivery?

Speaker 4 And the delivery, as Baz says, is so good.

Speaker 53 It's almost perfection. And, you know, that phrase undefendable.

Speaker 53 And I think with the movement they've got,

Speaker 53 it's very difficult to stop. And look, it will end at some point.
Teams will work it out. It's going to last forever.
But I was there at the Emirates on, when was it Wednesday?

Speaker 53 And as you say, it got to the point where the fans start doing the

Speaker 53 because they know. And you can see the United fans in the corner genuinely looking on like, this is going to be a goal.
They're almost expecting it to be a goal.

Speaker 53 Just going back to Barry's point, I don't think it's so much that Arsenal fans are taking issue with being compared to Stoke, which there's some issue with that.

Speaker 53 I think it's more this really, and it can only be banter, this banter narrative that somehow corner kicks don't count. If you score from a corner, it doesn't count.

Speaker 53 It's like it's still It's still a goal. And look, it's a weapon.
We didn't even have our biggest weapon scoring from corners there, Gabrielle. So it's something that they've worked on very, very well.

Speaker 53 And it's proving to be very, very successful. I just wanted to say, I think it was a really good game from Arsenal in the second half.
The first half was awful.

Speaker 53 They allowed themselves to be dragged down to United's tempo and pace in that there was zero.

Speaker 53 Second half, they upped it a little bit and they should have scored a lot more than the two goals they did.

Speaker 53 Just a quick note, though, on, and also, so top top trolling from Saliba with a knee slide off the score from his backside, I thought was quite funny as well.

Speaker 53 But a quick note on Manchester United, and this is anything particularly new I'm saying here, but it was just watching it live in front of you, you can really see how the Man United players, they don't know what to do.

Speaker 53 So the right back gets the ball, and then it's like, back to the keeper. Keeper gets the ball, back to Maguire.
Maguire gets the ball into Fernandez, Fernandez, back to Maguire.

Speaker 53 They genuinely don't know what they're supposed to be doing.

Speaker 53 And I think that the the job that Amarin's got after fitness, because they're not a very particularly fit team, is making them really a clear identity of what it is you're meant to do.

Speaker 53 Because it's all system players now, isn't it? It's all white systems. And that's how tactics work now in football, unfortunately.

Speaker 53 But it was really evident when they had that ball in the first half in particular. No one knew where they were meant to go, where they were meant to be.

Speaker 53 It was really stark when you see in front of you when you watch it live, how they're just clueless as to what they're

Speaker 53 supposed to be doing.

Speaker 1 Big lesson for me for the Manchester United manager. Look, I know he's new in the post.

Speaker 1 I know he's trying to look at there was commentary on the fact that he does rotate his side quite a lot. I watched the first half and I instantly regretted it.
It was such a poor first half.

Speaker 1 But one, I didn't understand his lineup. You know, this is Arsenal away with a couple of players missing and a couple of players in very important positions.

Speaker 1 And I think the most important positions were the wide positions. So to drag Rashford and Aman out of that.

Speaker 53 Do you know why, Troy? He's doing what your manager, Posta Koglu, I think, did last year. I think he's sacrificing the game short term to really experiment and the bigger picture.

Speaker 53 Look at his lineups in every single game. They've been different.
And he's using five subs in every game. What he's doing is he's saying, you know what?

Speaker 53 This year, I'm going to use this season to just see who's serious, who can I trust, who's fit, and who can work to my system. So if it means short-term pain.

Speaker 1 I'll caveat that, but what a statement it would have been for them to take away anything from the emirates whether it's a point whether it's a what a statement it would be what would that mean well it would mean quite a lot for the manchester united fans and i think it means quite a lot for the club

Speaker 1 i looked at the i looked at the the set pieces and and yeah we can glorify those set pieces are put on a sixpence but the the lineup the way manchester united lined up in front of all the Arsenal players that were going to rush in, unaware of what positions they were going to take up, again, showed a little bit of naivety to me so there's a lot of work to do i'll take your point jordan i i look at it totally different i thought that would have been a statement victory if they could have had it well you don't know but to take out a couple of the players who i potentially would have thought would have caused arsenal some damage particularly with uh second choice fullbacks and and obviously a second choice centre half or third choice center half as well i just thought they missed the trick there just a note on cath phipps manchester united's long-term receptionist who's passed away away at the age of 85.

Speaker 44 She was a childhood United fan who grew up in Greater Manchester, worked with the club for over 55 years in a variety of roles, became United's switchboard operator in 1968, just after they won the European Cup.

Speaker 28 So many former players, like total legends of Manchester United, sort of putting out really heartfelt, not just sort of tokenistic social media, but really heartfelt ones.

Speaker 42 And even at a club of that size, you know, this is the biggest club in England, right?

Speaker 42 That idea that it is, and, you know we talk about the fa cup third round and people talk about the tea lady and the receptionist and all that it's just a total sign that you know people make football clubs and i just i just thought it was such a it was such a like an incredible example of that of of so many people have been through that door and have seen kath phipps and that could be you know that that will be she is representative of so many people at so many football clubs regardless of size jordan if you look if you look if you look at the instagram page that they where they honoured her go and look at the replies and look at the amount of ex-players, you know, journalists, media members that have all paid their respects.

Speaker 53 I never met the lady.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I met her a couple of times.

Speaker 53 But it just shows how impactful she was. If you just look at all the people past and present who were showing their respects.

Speaker 50 Send her love to her friends and family, of course.

Speaker 54 That'll do for part one.

Speaker 7 Part two will begin with Bournemouth's victory over Tottenham.

Speaker 2 HiPod fans of America, Max here. Barry's here too.

Speaker 3 Hello.

Speaker 4 Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Speaker 9 We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category.

Speaker 11 Digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

Speaker 13 But there's something new and exciting.

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Speaker 16 Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, Max.

Speaker 17 Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

Speaker 21 It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Speaker 26 Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office, like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Speaker 28 Although not like you.

Speaker 15 A proper football journalist, mate.

Speaker 14 Exactly.

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Speaker 26 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 34 Barry, we should congratulate the Football Ramble for taking our crown.

Speaker 7 GoPearl got in touch to say, Max, your podcast is so, so good.

Speaker 15 And many people were in touch.

Speaker 28 Whose fault is this? What is this?

Speaker 51 Did you hold up six, seven fingers to the crowd?

Speaker 15 What happened?

Speaker 15 Well, I'll tell you something, Max. The best podcast award, I think, was handed out last.

Speaker 15 So by that stage of the evening, I couldn't count fingers, let alone hold them up.

Speaker 15 You know, hearty congratulations to the lads from the Ramble. I know them,

Speaker 15 I wouldn't say well, but I know them, and they're all

Speaker 15 top lads. And I'm blaming our listeners for this, but we will come back stronger, Max.

Speaker 39 Root and branch. That's what I'm saying.
What we're doing now is we're just throwing anyone into the pod just to see what's working.

Speaker 4 This season doesn't matter anymore.

Speaker 28 Like Amarin, we just try any old fucker. Just see what's going on.
Look at today, for goodness sake.

Speaker 4 Let's go to the vitality.

Speaker 44 Autumn says, I thought it was noble of Tottenham to sit out in solidarity with the Guardian Writers.

Speaker 34 Yeah, look, Bournemouth have beaten Man City, Arsenal, and Spurs at home.

Speaker 59 Although, I think

Speaker 47 it's generous to put Spurs in that group of big home wins.

Speaker 7 I could see this coming a mile off, and with apologies to Bournemouth fans.

Speaker 20 You know, I think the story is Tottenham and the pressure that And is under, he went to sort of confront, confront is probably too strong a word, talk to a fan afterwards.

Speaker 34 And

Speaker 57 this is really interesting with Bournemouth and Tottenham, I think, Troy, is that both of those teams like to press high, they like to play the ball out, but there's one team that is not afraid to mix it, right?

Speaker 59 To go long, to say, okay, and there's one team that just doggedly refused to do anything different.

Speaker 1 And it was just, even though Tottenham started this game quite well it was so obvious as soon as bourner took the lead it was done i disagree slightly there with the fact that tottenh refused to do anything different dragerson i think his first i don't know 10 touches of the ball was to launch it aimlessly down the pitch and he continued that in the second half because he knew that he couldn't play in the middle now whether and was upset with him or not i'm not sure but he launched some some of the longest balls they weren't passes just straight down the pitch aimlessly.

Speaker 15 Look,

Speaker 1 this Tottenham side, people

Speaker 1 have got a little bit too excited with the two wins against Man City.

Speaker 1 No, not a little bit, way too excited with the two wins against Man City.

Speaker 1 Yes, the win away from home in the league was exceptional and they played well, but that's not the Spurs that we've been watching for most of the season.

Speaker 1 There's a little stat that came out last night that they've not gone two games unbeaten since September.

Speaker 1 The stat is loss win loss win loss win draw lose that's not good enough by any one status we were led to believe that the second season from and would be would be something exceptional and and they would win a trophy they're still in the latter stages of the carabao cup i understand that but ultimately if the league form doesn't improve listen if he was new

Speaker 1 jose or antonio lose against Chelsea on Sunday and I think he's gone. But he's not.
And he's being given a blight at the moment.

Speaker 1 But you can see from what happened last night and it happened before that the Spurs fans are getting very edgy and in getting very edgy calling out the manager at that stage.

Speaker 1 I don't want to use the language that was used because I saw one of the fans' footage, but he's now under pressure and he doesn't look a happy guy anyway.

Speaker 1 So when he's on the sideline and he's watching his side play some pretty awful stuff yesterday, I think he's wondering where else he can be.

Speaker 1 So I don't get it. Listen, Bournemouth were amazing.

Speaker 1 Let's not take away from their performance last night because how they never won four, five, and maybe more, I will never know because they took Tottenham apart at will.

Speaker 1 But this Spurs side, they've got a lot of questions to answer. I don't think he trusts a lot of the team.
People were waxing lyrical about Madison's performance against Man City.

Speaker 1 I don't think he trusts Madison to perform like that in two, three, four games on the spin. Son is now an ailing son.

Speaker 1 He's not the same as what he was before, but he wears the captain arms band, so he's almost obliged. All right, I know he got rested yesterday.
He's had a few injuries.

Speaker 1 He's not hit the peaks that he has in previous seasons. And I just think that there's not a lot to be writing home about at the moment with this Tottenham squad.

Speaker 65 I always say, Baz, look, it's a sign of a good team to win when they're playing badly.

Speaker 52 But when Tottenham play badly, they don't win.

Speaker 40 But also, they can play well and not win as well.

Speaker 15 It's a terrible mix. Well, it's textbook Tottenham, isn't it? And Ange is just the latest guy to go through the meat grinder there.

Speaker 15 I think we all had a fair idea what would happen after they beat City.

Speaker 15 I thought Fulham would beat them. Tottenham got a draw and were very lucky to get a draw.
And they've lost this game. They drew against Roma in the Europa League.

Speaker 15 I didn't see that, so I can't really comment on it.

Speaker 15 They will probably beat Chelsea at the weekend and then lose their next two against Rangers in Southampton because that is what Tottenham do.

Speaker 15 And

Speaker 15 better men than Ange have tried and failed to fix it.

Speaker 15 And it looks like he's going to be the latest guy to fail to fix it.

Speaker 52 I mean, I think Tottenham fans think Chelsea could absolutely hammer them, you know, another centre-back out, or not even a centre-back.

Speaker 50 You know, they've just got Dragus in at centre-back.

Speaker 15 I mean, that is the caveat or the.

Speaker 15 You can say they're missing Vicario. Although Fraser Foster, who everyone was very worried about, has helped them keep the score down in two matches or three matches now.

Speaker 15 They're missing Mickey Van de Ven, Christian Romero, Benton Curr is suspended, obviously. So

Speaker 15 there are some mitigating factors. Yeah.

Speaker 42 I think they would be mad to get rid of Ange Jordan because I just don't, you know, there is a project there.

Speaker 43 You know, there aren't three.

Speaker 15 Who could replace him?

Speaker 15 I used to admire his absolute doggedness and refusal to change his ways or his team's ways, but it is become apparent that it is quite it's it's just bordering on stupid now um just before jordan comes in max you said there's a project there can you kind of tell me what that project is

Speaker 28 no i'm not here for details

Speaker 42 no no no there is that you know there is like like i agree i think he should mix it up but there is a they are trying to play football he's trying to build a squad it takes a few windows you know i think you know he started so well that does give you some grace they haven't been great after those first 10 games of the first season.

Speaker 35 But there is promise. You know, they have shown in games that there is promise.

Speaker 42 And the football, even yesterday.

Speaker 15 But don't Spurs always show promise at times.

Speaker 30 Not with Jose and Context.

Speaker 28 I don't think. I may have a short memory.
Jordan.

Speaker 53 You know, I went to take the bins out just before we started recording. And my...
My neighbour, she's a 76-year-old Irish lady, Eileen.

Speaker 53 She's a big Spurs fan. And

Speaker 53 she really lost Spurs. And we were talking about the game and she was giving me her view.
And I said to her, Aileen, do you think that you will see

Speaker 53 another Tottenham trophy win in your lifetime? And she replied to say, Jordan, I'm not convinced that you will see another

Speaker 15 trophy in your lifetime.

Speaker 53 And it got me thinking, like, will we ever see Spurs win another trophy ever again? Because they just seem to be cursed.

Speaker 53 And Troy spoke really well earlier on about, you know, Russell Martin in Southampton and the kind of belligerence of playing out from the back of sticking with that.

Speaker 53 I think my question is: to the people that are employing these managers,

Speaker 53 they know what they're getting when they bring these guys in. So, they can't then say to Ange, you're sacked because it's going wrong, because Daniel Lee would have known.

Speaker 53 You know,

Speaker 53 Potter Cog is the thought manager that I think would have been very upfront from the get-go. I would have played like this, I'm not changing, this is how it is.

Speaker 53 And you still employed him, so you kind of can't complain then when you get the city four nils and it works, but then you get the downside as well.

Speaker 53 So I think that the focus should be more on why you employ these managers that are coming with a philosophy or style of play than when it doesn't quite work out, you're blaming them and sacking them.

Speaker 53 That for me is the real question.

Speaker 1 I think it's obvious that the last few managers at Tottenham have not been backed in the transfer market.

Speaker 1 You look at a lot of those sides that are above Spurs and they have certain amount of qualities that will win them games when they shouldn't win. You just mentioned that, Max, or, you know,

Speaker 1 they can go for a much bigger fee if they want to.

Speaker 40 Yes, yeah, but Bournemouth, Villa, Forest, Fulham, Brighton don't.

Speaker 15 They're all above Tottenham, aren't they? Well, I think Villa do.

Speaker 1 I think Bournemouth have got a manager who absolutely plays to the strength of his squad and he proved it against Spurs last night. I think Spurs have got some very promising youngsters.

Speaker 1 I thought Archie Gray played well last night amongst the chaos, but I just think that they're missing some qualities that will be required to take Spurs, but also to implement Angie's kind of philosophy to help Spurs become a consistent,

Speaker 1 consistent team. They're not a consistent team at the moment.
Listen, they may win the Carabao Cup. We don't know yet.
And then

Speaker 1 I think a lot of this and your neighbor, Jordan and all that will be shocked.

Speaker 15 Troy,

Speaker 68 we probably do know.

Speaker 15 I mean,

Speaker 15 we definitely do know.

Speaker 30 It's worth saying Tyler Adams was brilliant for Bournemouth because I was interested to see how they did without Lewis Cook.

Speaker 28 I thought that might be a big blow to them.

Speaker 56 He did come on, Lewis Cook, he wasn't 100%.

Speaker 47 But I thought he was great. I thought Ryan Christie was brilliant as well.

Speaker 1 So was Hoyson who scored the goal. The young man who scored the goal after an early mistake.
So, yeah, there's some few good players last night that did well.

Speaker 15 Just before, in case you've forgotten to do it, Matt, Dean Hoison, April 14, 2005, Amsterdam. Is this the way to Amarillo by Tony Christie featuring Peter Clay?

Speaker 15 Jesus.

Speaker 39 God help us all.

Speaker 28 We are so old.

Speaker 13 Man City 3, Forrest 0, regulation win for Man City.

Speaker 21 Barry, nice to see Kevin De Bruyne out there being good.

Speaker 15 Well, was it a regulation win, Max? Were you being facetious? Because they haven't had

Speaker 15 too many regulations. Regulation wins.

Speaker 15 I thought they might lose this one.

Speaker 15 Kevin De Bruyne starts, they play really well.

Speaker 15 Who knew?

Speaker 15 He was superb this was very much the kevin de bruyne show with a souson of jeremy docku dust or a sprinkling of jeremy doku dust hugely impressive win for city uh that i think quite a few people thought they might slip up again after their bad run forest weren't terrible but city were miles ahead of them and yeah it just very much was kevin de bruyne show wasn't it yeah i mean i guess if chris wood scores that goal at 1-0 yeah you expect him to given his form, that could have, you know, given how vulnerable they are, that could have changed things.

Speaker 50 Jordan, you were, you know, you were saying that, you know, Chelsea are you versus Carl Lewis and Usain Bolt.

Speaker 44 What a man City in this, what are they, Atto Bolden, Dennis Mitchell?

Speaker 18 Who are they in this Linford Christie in this 100 million?

Speaker 15 Very much Ben Johnson, I think.

Speaker 15 Oh, wow.

Speaker 53 Can I separate myself from those comments?

Speaker 15 Just to let

Speaker 53 those barriers towards them.

Speaker 28 Of course, you can.

Speaker 47 Just in case Lord Panic is listening, yeah, City deny all the charges.

Speaker 18 Do carry on, Jordan.

Speaker 53 No, I mean, if anything, they're probably the Usain Bolt in that a fading force, but one that you're still not quite convinced you could probably be.

Speaker 53 Obviously, much has been made of Rodri's absence in that squad. I think people are forgetting how good De Bruyne is, and I think his absence is just as crucial

Speaker 53 to Roderick. They do different things, but

Speaker 53 it's an aging, Kevin De Bruyne, he's had some difficulties with injuries in recent years.

Speaker 53 But when he's on form, I still feel he's the best player, what he does in probably world football. And it was good to see him kind of flexing again yesterday.

Speaker 53 I think City have just got to kind of do what Arsenal had to do three weeks ago: just win the next game, just win the next game, just win the next game, and then just kind of see where they are.

Speaker 53 Because although I'm not taking Chelsea seriously, for title talk, you know,

Speaker 53 if this continues, City could find themselves if they don't get their form back in in a fight for top four

Speaker 65 hmm on you saying bolt and i know i've said it before but when he had a tryout for uh i think it was central coast mariners in the a-league some commentator saying he had a first touch like a trampoline it's just one of my favorite sayings it just says everything doesn't it nice to see jack greenish and jotter silver sort of tackling each other because they do look like

Speaker 15 brothers perhaps with different dads i'm not sure but there is a sort of real likeness about the two of them isn't there jack greedish had a quite central role in this yeah i thought he did well

Speaker 28 he contributed a lot to the victory so maybe that's something pep might do more of in the future yeah and him with doku because you know doku's so like fun isn't he out on the left-hand side you know greedish is a a different more technical player i think um or a slower player you know but i love watching doku he's got such talent hasn't he um let's go to goodison everton for wolves nil

Speaker 58 um i want to congratulate everton troy but if you concede four goals to to everton you have to ask what's going on that's like a season of goals at goodison park

Speaker 1 yeah it is very much so i actually thought the pressure was on both managers coming into this game i think sean dice is a little bit safer and what dice does incredibly well is he always pulls a result out when people are questioning whether he still should be in a job and that was a massive result as for Gary O'Neill listen I think they go to West Ham on Sunday Saturday or Sunday don't they yeah I mean both again it's a situation where both managers are under extreme pressure but the goals that Walls are conceding and yeah to go to a

Speaker 1 one goal every other game, Everton and concede four, even though two of them were obviously have been put down as Craig Dawson owned goals, kind of shows you where that club is at the moment.

Speaker 1 It seemed a couple of weeks ago like they were having an upturn as well, weren't they? Kunya was scoring goals and

Speaker 1 Larson and they looked like they'd got over their bad rut, but very quickly they've gone straight back into it. And

Speaker 1 I think it could be it's alarm bells for him if they lose away at West Ham defensively all over the place. A lot of set pieces.

Speaker 1 Walls generally have been good with big centre halves previously, but I don't know,

Speaker 1 Everton got in on them and created some very good chances ashley young's goal there was questions about the wall there how did that go in but listen i think goodison park would have been a very good place to be to to watch goals all of a sudden but yeah the signs are there for gary o'neill and they're not good you wonder um jordan if uh craig dawson will be one of the top scorers at goodison this season as well with two own goals in a game like on the valve fast scale he's nowhere near it is he because they were both slightly unfortunate he was just calvert lewin would have he's just taken two goals off Calvert Lewin, really, hasn't he?

Speaker 53 Yeah, he has. I mean, yeah, I don't know how you

Speaker 53 do you just put him in the wrong position at the wrong time, and are you trying to slash at things and you're unlucky?

Speaker 53 I don't know how you kind of get that many own goals, but um, yeah, he was unlucky in this one for sure.

Speaker 32 What do we think for Gary O'Neill's future?

Speaker 47 So, imagine Baz, that West Ham game, like everyone will be sacked after that game.

Speaker 15 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 15 Walls are diabolical in this game, conceded

Speaker 15 three or four from set pieces.

Speaker 15 There was one disallowed that came from a Tarkowski header from a McNeill free kick.

Speaker 15 So, yeah, they can't handle balls into the box. I mean, they did sell, they do have a habit of selling centre-backs and not replacing them adequately.

Speaker 15 The only thing I would say, while West Ham lost against Leicester,

Speaker 15 I don't know how they lost because there's so many chances

Speaker 15 when your luck's out. And Gary O'Neill

Speaker 15 spoke after this game with the demeanor of a man who fully expects to be sacked and might actually welcome having Christmas off.

Speaker 39 Ashley Young, now the fourth oldest scorer in Premier League history, the oldest to score from a direct-free kick.

Speaker 28 Does anybody, Trivia Time, want to guess one of the three older than him to score in the Premier League?

Speaker 15 Gigs, Ronaldo?

Speaker 46 No, no.

Speaker 53 Thiago Silva?

Speaker 45 Thiago Silva, correct one point for Jordan.

Speaker 15 He's one a goalkeeper.

Speaker 46 No.

Speaker 53 What team?

Speaker 28 Hull City is one of them.

Speaker 53 Oh, Windas.

Speaker 27 Correct. Dean Windas, two points.

Speaker 29 And the oldest scored for, I think, for West Ham against Portsmouth, but could have been for Portsmouth against West Ham.

Speaker 1 Said he's sharing up.

Speaker 28 Correct. There you are.

Speaker 47 So well done.

Speaker 45 Ashley Young.

Speaker 64 You mentioned Lester West Ham.

Speaker 29 Barry Lester 3, West Ham one.

Speaker 20 Great result for Rude Van Nisteroy.

Speaker 35 The first manager in English top-flight history to beat a team twice and then manage them later that season.

Speaker 31 But yeah, you think West Ham actually deserved to get something from this game, Bows?

Speaker 15 I do, yeah. I think they had more chances than Leicester.
Leicester were just more clinical. West Ham's XG

Speaker 15 was 3.10

Speaker 15 compared to Leicester's 1.67.

Speaker 15 And Rude Van Nisteroy sort of acknowledged it afterwards. He said, look, this is a great result.
We really need it.

Speaker 15 But there is a lot to do here because we

Speaker 15 i think he kind of acknowledged they got away with this one but um julian lopategi just looked absolutely ashen faced afterwards because i thought west hand played reasonably well and had a lot of chances and just couldn't put them away it's amazing isn't it how sad manager i mean he's on what is he on three four five million a year i don't know like i think if i was paid that even though I was having an absolutely rotten time of being yelled at, I'd probably just be all right.

Speaker 15 I don't know.

Speaker 15 Surely the more you're paid, the more you're going to take it to heart because you feel you should be doing better and they're letting everyone down.

Speaker 32 Yeah, but you'd also think if I really let them down, I'll just get a giant payoff.

Speaker 39 Life isn't all about money.

Speaker 15 No, it is.

Speaker 40 It just is a ludicrous.

Speaker 34 Football management is just such a totally ludicrous profession.

Speaker 47 And I suppose, you know, the point is that these people have professional pride.

Speaker 68 I'm not saying I don't.

Speaker 40 And

Speaker 42 so, you know, that's why people like Lampard and Rooney, like we talked on the FL pod, you know, want to keep doing it, even if they just have a rotten time and they have to sort of move around the country to random places.

Speaker 28 Not that Plymouth and Coventry are random places.

Speaker 61 Tying myself in knots here anyway, I bet they're not random places.

Speaker 15 They are random places. Yeah.

Speaker 15 You're right.

Speaker 15 I would argue Plymouth is more random than most places.

Speaker 15 Off down there.

Speaker 28 Anyway, that'll do for part two.

Speaker 7 We'll round up the rest of the Premier League in part three.

Speaker 2 HiPod fans of America, Max here. Barry's here too.

Speaker 3 Hello.

Speaker 4 Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro. Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Speaker 10 We already know that Remarkable is the leader in the paper tablet category, digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper, but with the power of modern technology.

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Speaker 53 welcome to part three of the guardian football weekly fulham three brighton one uh wintakes fulham sixth um had two late goals to win it but jordan marco silver quietly doing a brilliant job i think quite interesting in this season that there is this big clump of teams that can beat each other I mean there's no way of knowing which way this game would have gone no and I don't I'm not sure if it's even quiet anymore this is the second season now where Fulham have really kind of asserted themselves as you know at worst a top of the bottom half table type team if not pushing and knocking on the door for a European spot they play some good football I mean Fulham that kind of an inoffensive team right so no one dislikes Fulham and you know I wouldn't go far saying they're your your second team sort of team but they're um they're very inoffensive and the football they play is nice it's a nice day out down there at the cottage and he's got some really good players down there doing some really good things i'm not sure if they will be able to sustain this to get a european position But going from a team that were perennial, you know, a yo-yo club between the divisions to now a team that is, I think, an established Premier League side that can knock on the door for European football, I think is a testament to the work that he's he's doing there.

Speaker 53 And you never ever hear him linked with other jobs.

Speaker 53 You never, when other jobs come up, you never really hear Marco Silva is, you know, someone that they might try and poach, which I find quite interesting as well. But this was a good game.

Speaker 53 Awobi down there's, I think, found his level. And I mean that with all due respect

Speaker 53 as an Arsenal fan, former Arsenal player, he is. We've got them on the weekend.
So he's really becoming the man in that team. So

Speaker 53 it's good to see. It's good to see.

Speaker 35 It's good to you to patronise Alex Awobi.

Speaker 28 A little bit.

Speaker 53 I know. I know.
I know.

Speaker 15 I know.

Speaker 53 I said it and I was like, oh, yeah, this is bad. This is bad.

Speaker 35 Cliche bingo for any Fulham fan going, yeah, inoffensive, nice, nice day out, lovely spots.

Speaker 15 But am I lying?

Speaker 15 Am I lying? No, no, no, no. Only in the summer, Jordan.
It should probably be pointed out that it wasn't a nice day at the cottage because it was pissing rain.

Speaker 15 You know what I mean?

Speaker 15 Generally down there, it's not so bad. You know what I mean?

Speaker 23 Actually, the goal of the game was Brighton's.

Speaker 42 The touch from Joe Pedro trying to set up Balaba and the finish.

Speaker 28 But I think Pedro is a star.

Speaker 1 I like him. I like him a lot.
They've missed him, obviously, a lot this season. But then they've had Daddy Welbeck scoring goals and keeping them up there.
He was missing, obviously, the other night.

Speaker 1 And I thought it was a decent game. I thought Brighton were in it for long periods.
But then, as Jordan says, Alex Awobi.

Speaker 1 Again, pops up with

Speaker 1 an equally as good goal, an equally good a goal.

Speaker 1 And, you know, they're fifth and sixth in the league that's there's nothing to sniff at the the thing is whether they can maintain it like you say but you know they're fifth and sixth sixth in a league and they are both playing decent football um enjoyable football football that you know if you're you're watching a game that maybe has no significance to you you will enjoy and and so long may it continue i think both managers have done well just on the fulham manager he he was linked you say that jordan and he was linked with a big move to saudi um a couple of years ago yeah and i think he kind of squeezed Fulham quite a bit

Speaker 1 with the threat that he could leave. But he signed a new deal.
He looks happy enough and he's creating a very good and exciting football team.

Speaker 68 Aston Villa got a much needed win, Baz, over Brentford 3-1.

Speaker 15 Yeah,

Speaker 15 look, when you're trying to get out of a slump, Brentford at home is just a tonic, isn't it? They have this absolutely dismal away record.

Speaker 15 It's inexplicable, really, at this stage how bad they are away from home compared to how good they are at home I know there's all this you know travel unfamiliar surroundings a hostile crowd blah blah blah but Premier League crowds aren't that hostile you're still playing on a rectangular grass it cannot be that difficult to get a few decent results on the road Villa had been struggling they won this one

Speaker 15 pretty

Speaker 15 convincingly and you know scored three goals Flecking had to make a series of excellent saves to keep the score down for brentford brentford at home against newcastle on saturday inform newcastle um or inform-ish they'll probably win that one because and it'll be like seven five

Speaker 15 was it a pen

Speaker 53 am I about am I the person that thinks that it wasn't quite convinced it was a penalty I mean Ethan Pinnock can do no wrong on this podcast of course so I thought it was yeah he's missed kicked it and I'm not sure that he was fouled to miskick it Dolly Dolly Watkins.

Speaker 15 Well, I think Pinnock kind of gave him that little tug on the shoulder.

Speaker 15 Look, I will defend Ethan Pinnock to the finish, but I think he was probably

Speaker 15 fair enough here.

Speaker 15 Oh, yeah, well, Morgan Rodgers.

Speaker 47 Morgan Rodgers' finish was brilliant as well.

Speaker 39 Finally, Crystal Palace 1-1-0 at Ipswich.

Speaker 39 Just on the goal, Troy, Matetas.

Speaker 42 I mean, that is brilliant centre-forward play.

Speaker 18 Touch, strength, skill.

Speaker 42 The finish is so delicate.

Speaker 59 It's this is what you want.

Speaker 29 It's not really a chance when he gets the ball.

Speaker 15 It's brilliant.

Speaker 1 Anyone that would have seen Mateta when he first came to England and was trying to score goals for Crystal Palace, I think Palace were looking to get rid of him.

Speaker 1 He send him out on loan under Roy Hodgson. And, you know, it just wasn't happening for him.
He even scored in the game against Bryan away from home.

Speaker 1 Unfortunately, with no fans, with a lovely backflip, but it just didn't seem to work for him. And

Speaker 1 then comes the back end of last season and

Speaker 1 he has been on fire. The Olympics has taken a little bit out of him, but when he's on it, he's on it.
And yeah, it was an absolutely brilliant goal. A nice way to decide the game.
He's a young man.

Speaker 1 You know, he's tall, he's gangly, he's everything that everyone says that a professional footballer shouldn't be, but he hits them well. He has great feet.

Speaker 1 So he dances around the pitch a lot of the times. He has great feet.

Speaker 1 And he's going to be one of the reasons why Palace are competitive and try and haul themselves up with obviously Eze now that he's fit because he was brilliant on the night as well and created some really good chances so long mat continue but yeah a top top class finish from Mateta there in the UK all these games are on Amazon I'm not sure who the commentator was for Ipswich Crystal Palace but before the game he said Palace hadn't lost a top flight game against Ipswich in 43 years.

Speaker 15 I thought, oh, that's impressive. Then I checked, not so impressive when you discovered top-flight games played between Ipswich and Palace in the past 43 years, two.

Speaker 15 Palace won one, drawn one, and now they've won another one. So well done, Palace.

Speaker 42 Ipswich Town Captain Sam Morsi chose not to wear the rainbow armband due to his religious beliefs. He's a practicing Muslim.

Speaker 66 Ipswich Town said, We proudly support the Premier League's Rainbow Latest campaign stand with the LGBTQ plus community in promoting equality and acceptance.

Speaker 44 At the same time, we respect the decision of our captain Sam Morsey, who's chosen not to wear the rainbow captain's armband due to his religious beliefs.

Speaker 35 Christopher's Mark Gay wore the armband and wrote, I love Jesus on it.

Speaker 7 The FA chose not to take action against him, but reminded the club and the player that religious messaging on their kit is banned.

Speaker 66 Manchester United Shelves plans to wear a pride-themed rainbow jacket, supporting the LGBTQ plus community after their defender, Nusaya Masraoui, said he would not be able to wear the jacket on the grounds of his Muslim faith.

Speaker 66 That's according to The Athletic.

Speaker 45 Their report said some United players were unhappy with the decision.

Speaker 51 Troy, how do we navigate inclusivity when inclusivity for some people is necessarily exclusive for others, if that makes sense?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it does make sense.

Speaker 1 I never like when two marginalised groups are pitted together and then there's this fallout.

Speaker 1 Listen, people much more in the know than me.

Speaker 1 Hugo Schechto, who used to be the, it was at Southampton, was at West Ham as a player care officer and as a gay man wrote a stunning piece on linkedin if you wanted to check that out um and then acknowledged liz ward who educates in this space and provided some

Speaker 1 common sense and that's probably the best thing to say provided some common sense in this space while there were others who were almost in sight in a pylon and i no matter what it is i i i don't agree with that and look

Speaker 1 this is not the first season that Sam Wars is not wore the armband. You know, he's been captain of Ipswich for a little while now, and he didn't wear it last season.

Speaker 1 But there's no uproar because the championship is not big enough to talk about it. So the fact that there's uproar now is kind of like saying, well, why didn't you speak about it from the very off?

Speaker 1 He's made his feelings clear. You know, we've just finished Islamophobia Awareness Month.

Speaker 1 only a couple of days ago, and now people want to have a go at Muslims for believing in their faith and for practicing their faith and not allowing the game to impress on them that they should be wearing the armband, you know?

Speaker 1 And look, I get it. I understand it.
There is a place for everything and everybody in this game. But ultimately, we also, we're also trying to talk about respect.

Speaker 1 And if we need to respect people's religion and people's belief, then we have to do that, not create a pylon that then enables people who really have no authority to have their say in this space.

Speaker 1 And people can say that about me as well, but I'm fortunate enough to know a couple of players that you've mentioned there.

Speaker 1 I'm also fortunate enough to know several members of the LGBT community and worked with them. So I get it from both angles, but there has to be the level of respect for anybody.

Speaker 1 You know, it's a difficult game in England to show your qualities around

Speaker 1 your faith, your religion, your background.

Speaker 1 It's difficult because

Speaker 1 it's a tribal industry here, but we shouldn't be piling on each other. That's probably what I would want to say.
We shouldn't be piling on each other because it doesn't create a very good space.

Speaker 54 Chris Power's friend of the pod and from the Spurs LGBTQ plus group actually put a brilliant, the Proud Lily Whites put a brilliant post on Instagram.

Speaker 45 And part of it said this, look, there is lots of incredible work going on in various football clubs, particularly around fan inclusion.

Speaker 66 LGBTQ plus and fan groups are a testament to the ensuring sense of community visibility and belonging.

Speaker 64 Handing over an armband without context is like giving someone a user manual written in a language they don't speak.

Speaker 46 It isn't going to land.

Speaker 62 It's not enough to say, here's an armband, wear it.

Speaker 63 Clubs and governing bodies need to step up with ongoing education that brings players into the conversation.

Speaker 61 It's not about shaming anyone into compliance.

Speaker 66 It's about building understanding so players can lead with purpose.

Speaker 49 If they choose not to wear it, they should be able to talk about it constructively.

Speaker 54 Let's remember LGBTQ plus rights and faith belief are not necessarily in conflict.

Speaker 66 There are plenty of LGBTQ plus Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, etc.

Speaker 7 All of this is about human rights, which are universal and inalienable.

Speaker 4 And the world currently feels more volatile than ever.

Speaker 7 LGBTQ plus communities are having their rights rolled back all over the place.

Speaker 63 This might seem like an inconsequential spat in English football.

Speaker 47 It can have a global impact.

Speaker 45 Players need time and space to explore these ideas, to ask questions, to really grasp the bigger picture.

Speaker 66 That's how we build real change.

Speaker 62 Not with a single match day, but through a culture of learning and engagement.

Speaker 32 And I thought that articulated better than I could.

Speaker 28 Anyway, I don't know, Jordan, Barry, if you have anything you want to add on this.

Speaker 15 Well, the only thing I'd say is, look, I don't know any of the three players involved. I've never met them.
They may very well not have any prejudices against gay people, but

Speaker 15 the optics aren't good. And the impression I get is that these are personal prejudices hidden behind, oh, these are my religious beliefs.

Speaker 1 Disagree totally, Barry, with that. I mean, look, ultimately, sorry to cut across you there.
We all have a prejudice in us somewhere along the line.

Speaker 1 We have to highlight it and we have to understand, but also the players have to have a voice.

Speaker 1 And I think Chris is right, what you've read out there, Max, is that a lot of the times the players are told to wear something without

Speaker 1 proper understanding of what it's going to do or proper understanding of the player that's on the receiving end.

Speaker 1 I remember when Gary Neville said this to me, you know, oh, we were given a kick it out t-shirt and

Speaker 1 were just told to wear it, you know, and we didn't know what we were wearing and we, but they still went out there and wore it.

Speaker 1 But I said to Gary, you know, there comes a time when a player's voice has to be elevated in this space and we have to have the open and honest conversations.

Speaker 1 Education is a massive thing in this space. It won't change the narrative here.

Speaker 1 It won't change the fact that the players won't wear the armband, but it will at least provide some kind of understanding from their point of view and vice versa.

Speaker 1 And for me, that is the most important thing in this this whole conversation.

Speaker 28 But there is always this conflict that there are, you know, there are so many countries,

Speaker 63 you know, strict Christian, strict Muslim countries where homosexuality is illegal, right?

Speaker 49 This conflict between a respecting of

Speaker 46 who someone is because, you know, you don't choose to be gay and religion.

Speaker 67 That is a conflict that is really actually incredibly complex. I mean, too complex for me to come up with an answer, I guess.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's incredibly complex, but we're we're a universal game. We're an international game.
We embrace people into our sport.

Speaker 1 The Premier League is probably the biggest,

Speaker 1 has the biggest dynamic of people from right across the world. So

Speaker 1 it has to become complicated because they bring all their personal kind of,

Speaker 1 not agendas, but personal beliefs and personal feelings into our industry. But there's times when our industry doesn't want that, that just wants the footballer.

Speaker 1 And at the moment, there's people saying, well, we shouldn't bring politics into football just play but then there's also the fact that players and people working in the game will want to be identified for who they are they want to be authentic and if we don't allow that space then why do we play the game or why do we bring them into our game so it's an incredible difficult conversation where no one has the full and proper answers but if we are open-minded and we we begin the conversation with respect

Speaker 1 then we may get to a point where actually everyone can understand and understand people's points of views. And you're right, Chris has put it in good context.

Speaker 1 Like I said, Hugh has put it in good context, and Liz has as well.

Speaker 53 I agree with Troy. Whenever I hear people saying we need to keep politics out of football, that feels like a very, very privileged position to take.

Speaker 53 Because for some people, their identity and their being is very, very political and prevents them from having the same experiences within football as other people do.

Speaker 53 I'd love to sit down with Mark Gahee and fully understand if he understands what the Rainbow Latest campaign is about.

Speaker 53 The campaign is about whatever community you're from, if you're a woman, if you're black, if you're gay, whatever it is, football is a space for you.

Speaker 53 And I can disagree with your politics or your religion, but that's irrelevant. This is football and this is a place for you.
And I would love to think and love, I'd hope that he understands that.

Speaker 53 I thought it was very provocative what he does. I was very disappointed that he wrote what he wrote.
He's a proud Christian. That's fine.

Speaker 53 But I think what he did was very, very intentional because he doesn't write that on the armband every single week. He wrote it on this particular armband.

Speaker 53 So I was a bit disappointed that he did what he did. But also I defend his rights as I do with the Ipswich captain.
If you don't want to wear the armband, you shouldn't be forced to either.

Speaker 1 Listen, not everyone wanted to take the knee. You know, it becomes such a contentious thing that players...

Speaker 53 I was against the knee.

Speaker 1 including the black players, all stand up. And this is my identity.
My identity is to stand proud. So there's arguments

Speaker 1 right across the board for all the kind of actions that are brought into the game. But I think the explainer and the starting element of respect is the most important thing.

Speaker 35 I just find it really hard to know, you know, at times we are, you know, critical of Saudi Arabia because of their stance on homosexuality.

Speaker 7 And then we, you know, I believe in religious tolerance and I, you know, obviously an ally of the the lgbtq plus community and i you know i don't know where exactly i'm meant to sit in this place that's really hard to to navigate i guess but um uh briefly uh changing tack the fa cup third round draw barriers i don't think they could have scripted a better one it is a matter like how many brilliant games there are you know the class of 92 going to man city Liverpool Accrington Stanley, it's the milk advert.

Speaker 18 It's what Ian Rush drinks.

Speaker 15 Everton against Peterborough,

Speaker 15 where Ashley young may come up against his son

Speaker 15 unbelievable

Speaker 15 which will be a real really great story what was the other one that leapt out at me there's chelsea morecombe so morecom are what bottom of the league two tamworth spurs it's great and you've got uh you know bromley going to st james's park and then arsenal man united you've got one big game in it i loved it yeah look i love the fa cup third round i love the fa cup yeah um and i think there's

Speaker 15 a lot of football fans of a certain age will always hold the FA Cup in extremely high regard, even if clubs don't take it as seriously as they might.

Speaker 15 But hopefully, we'll get a few right good upsets and rollicking ties there on what is it, the second weekend of January, whenever it is.

Speaker 64 Yeah, look, we don't have time to talk about the Club World Cup draw, but that'll come.

Speaker 44 15th of June to 13th of July, and then the Women's Euro, 2nd of July to the 27th of July.

Speaker 18 So, this podcast, Barry, however non-award-winning it is, is, it will carry on forever and ever.

Speaker 9 There's nothing we can do, but that'll do for today.

Speaker 7 Thanks, everybody.

Speaker 9 Thank you, Jordan.

Speaker 53 Cheers, mate.

Speaker 4 Thanks, Troy.

Speaker 1 Cheers, Max.

Speaker 28 Thank you, Barry. Thank you.

Speaker 4 Triple Weekly is produced by Silas Gray and Max Rushton.

Speaker 63 Two in two weeks, everyone.

Speaker 51 And our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

Speaker 61 This is the Guardian.