Thomas Tuchel unveiled and a Premier League preview: Football Weekly Extra

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Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Week Clean.

After a thoroughly entertaining international break, it's back down to earth with a Premier League bump.

We'll start with Thomas Tuchel addressing the media for the first time.

He answered all the questions and seemed very relaxed about all things, certainly Certainly more relaxed than Lee Carsley, who spent the last week having to uncomfortably lie to everyone, the poor bloke.

We'll talk about Tuchel's football and perhaps which players that this might be good or bad news for, the extraordinary news that he's named Barry as his assistant.

And there's the bit about a possible impact on English coaching and the state of English coaching in general.

Then to the weekend, Liverpool Chelsea looks fascinating.

Eric Ten Hag had a seven-hour meeting about his future.

You'd imagine Brentford will score sooner than that at Old Trafford.

Some six pointers at the bottom at Switch Everton and Southampton-Leicester.

You'd expect wins for Man City at Wolds and Arsenal at Bournemouth, while Ange needs a reaction at home to West Ham.

All that plus your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, hello.

Hi, Max.

Hello, Lars Evertson.

Hi, Max.

And welcome, Will Unwyn.

Hello, Max.

So we have to begin with Thomas Tuchel, gave his press conference as the England manager, flanked by the FA chief executive Mark Bullingham.

We found out that Tuchel had already agreed to take the job before the Greece game.

He's starting in January on an 18-month deal.

His assistant will be not Barry, sadly, but an Englishman called Anthony Barry who worked with him at Chelsea and Bayern, who is at Portugal at the moment.

More coaching staff will be named in the next few weeks.

I thought Barry, he spoke pretty well on all the subjects, the football, the nature of the job, his belief in trying to win the World Cup and the you know, the culture war stuff, being German and the anthem, etc.

Yeah, I think he pretty much nailed it, didn't put a foot wrong.

That Anthony Barry you mentioned, he also worked for the Republic of Ireland

and then went, I think he abandoned us for Belgium.

Everyone leaves us.

But

I'll never leave you, Belgium.

Oh, thank you.

No, he was great.

I mean, the inevitable questions about his nationality and whether or not he would sing the bloody national anthem came came early, as we knew they probably would.

He was clearly ready for them, resisted the urge to just like roll his eyes and said he would respect the country, respect the position.

He wasn't sure whether he would sing the anthem or not.

I don't care whether he sings it.

Some people do.

Most people, I suspect, don't.

I mean, he didn't do anything I didn't expect from him.

It's a pretty straightforward part of the job.

I think the thing I found most interesting about that press conference is it emerged, I think for the first time, that he signed his contract

10 days ago.

And you alluded to this in your intro, so Lee Carsley had to lie unconvincingly.

I don't think Lee will be on the next series of The Traitors.

And if he is, he will not last long.

Would I lie to you, wouldn't he?

Yesterday Lee Mac going, last week I didn't know that I hadn't got the England job.

And you'll be like, yes, okay.

It was an interesting case of sometimes when managers in these press conferences say really weird stuff that doesn't make any sense to us.

Sometimes there's just stuff going on in the background that we don't know.

So now that we know that he probably, whether he knew it was tuchel, he certainly would have had an inkling that something's gone on there.

All of the quotes he says make a lot more sense.

Like his whole appearance, everything is like, yeah, okay, that scans as someone who's been put in a really awkward position to try to explain why he hopes to go back to the job he had before.

Lawrence on Instagram said, look, lads, this is referring to yesterday's podcast.

We just wanted some tukal analysis and if he'll make England good and not a discussion on the merits of the nation-state and borders, which is how deep it got yesterday.

So, I so should we start with the football?

I mean, what Lils can we expect from a tukel team?

I just thought you missed the trick in not asking Paul Watson if there was a lot of outrage locally when he was put in charge of Pompeii.

You know, did the islanders think

this is a very sad indictment on the status of coaching in Pompeii.

We have to get this Englishman in.

Paul Watson's book, Up Pompeii, is tremendous since it wasn't mentioned.

I

really enjoyed that.

But no, on Tukal.

So I'm deeply skeptical in general of big name coaches from the club game being hired with great fanferas international managers because it's such a different thing.

And it always makes me think that he's become a really big name for doing something that's quite different from what he'll be doing now.

But I think when it comes to tukul, there are a couple of ways in which I think it makes sense.

First of all,

he's shown in the past that he can be quite pragmatic tactically.

Like, if you ask him what his style of football is, I'm sure he'll say something about, oh, we want to dominate and have the ball and attack all the time.

But, you know, when he was in charge of Mainz, where he started out in Germany, they were kind of known for being super tactically flexible and adapting to the opposition all the time.

And when he was at PSG,

they didn't necessarily try to, because he was there during the sort of Galactico-Nonsense era, and he did manage to make them a pretty balanced team and then get them to the Champions League final by being a little bit more pragmatic.

And again, I think we've spoken about it when he took over after Frank Lampard at Chelsea.

No, they didn't turn into like a swashbuckling super.

He

got the defense sorted first and got the team structured.

And so he's someone who has shown that he can coach under different circumstances, that he can adopt to the personnel he has available to him.

And I think that's always a really good box to tick for someone who is going to manage internationally.

And I also think, like, obviously, the thing everyone says about Tukul, and it's not wrong, is that he's super clever tactically.

And as a coach, everyone says so, but he's difficult and he seems to fall out with a lot of people.

I wonder if international football, the fact that it is organized in camps and then there's a big like gap and then we're back in it again, that might like be a bit of a buffer to him falling out with people.

And like,

he has fallen out with directors over transfer policy.

That's not going to be an issue.

But there have, I believe, also been players who have been suggested that over time, he's such a demanding character that he can be a little bit difficult to to be around but he but you're not going to have to be around with him every day you it's just you you do the camp and then you do the tukel things and then you have it you go back to your club teams and then everyone has a chance to sort of reflect and recharge and then we come back and i i think that the nature of international football might actually like smooth some of the edges of him in a good way in terms of uh yeah the stuff that's gotten him into trouble before like like you know the fun uncle at christmas who is good for Christmas, but you wouldn't want to spend every day with him.

Will on.

Here comes Tuckle.

Yeah, on who he'll pick, he said, look, I will look for the best group of players, not necessarily the 24 best individuals.

And I wonder if, you know, not everybody was crying out for every attacker to be picked.

But after that Grease game, perhaps everybody, not everybody, has gone full circle to now say, please pick a pragmatic team.

So like, I think the idea that he's such a strong character means that he might be able to rest players, bench players, without them

kicking off.

Yeah, as Lars mentioned, he is pragmatic, and that's what's helped him throughout his career.

You know, he's been at big clubs where you have to leave players out for the best nature of the team.

And he showed yesterday in the press conference that, as we've all said, we dealt with every question very well.

And those questions all come of, you know, how do you fit everyone into the team?

And obviously, that's what I mentioned yesterday.

But he is a winner.

He's won trophies.

He wins trophies not by sticking the 11 best players out.

He'll know

that throughout time all those players will get game time.

Foden, Palmer, Bellingham will have their moments and he'll plan for the opposition.

He will want to, I suspect, dominate possession a little bit more than we've seen.

You know, we all watched the Spain final and I think that was a problem England had of ball retention.

Working out you know, who sits in front of that defence will be interesting because Rice doesn't have what you know Jorginho had for him at Chelsea, how to how to use the ball.

so that'll be an interesting one I think he'll play a left back at left back in a controversial controversial move for English football but yeah he won't be afraid of making the big decisions and he won't be too worried about answering the questions in the press conferences about you know why Froden isn't playing Froden hasn't really played well for England but keeps getting put in there and there's plenty of options that he's got it's not that is a area of the pitch you know behind Harry Kane where there's a lot of potential candidates to play and even when Kane isn't fit he'll probably play Ollie Watkins rather than than fitting people that have sort of got a slightly better reputation than him.

So, yeah, he's a pragmatist.

He doesn't worry about the noise from the outside.

And maybe being a bit of an outsider in terms of the England job might help him when it comes to those things because

he'll keep getting questions about whether he's singing the anthem and whatnot every week.

Interesting that you mentioned Harry Kane there, Barry.

Harry Kane sort of tweeted out going, you know,

great to be back under you, boss, or something like that.

It's quite probably quite good news for kane isn't it we've had we've sort of flirted with discussions about where his position in this the team well do you mean by barony saying he should retire from international football or be retired yeah yeah yeah uh well i didn't think that there was ever much chance of that happening tukel is a massive kane fan he wanted to bring him to Chelsea, but that was never going to happen.

So he ended up signing Romolu Lukaku instead, didn't he?

Or was he already lumbered with Romolu Lukaku?

Didn't work out anyway.

And then he brought him to Byron and Harry Kane did a wonderful job for him.

Sadly, that was the for Harry.

That was the season, the one season Byron didn't win the title, but it certainly wasn't anything to do with him, you would argue.

Harry Kane is not getting any younger.

He is injury prone.

I presume Tuka will pick him if he's fit.

And like many other managers, he may pick him even if he isn't fit

to the detriment of England's tournament chances.

Lars, do you think the 18-month contract is an issue?

This is just come in, try and win the World Cup, probably not win the World Cup.

You know, it is England after all.

And do you think starting in January the 1st is weird and he shouldn't just start now?

So on the first one, I kind of think all international contracts should be up until the next major tournament.

I think giving contracts beyond that is kind of pointless because you will always reassess how you feel about the national team coach after a big tournament, right?

This is the thing we work towards.

International football works in cycles.

It's for sort of medium and smaller countries, it's ideally the qualifying cycle and then whatever happens if we get to the tournament for the major countries, it's what happens in the tournament.

That's what you're judged on.

So signing these sort of monster four, five, six year deals for an international coach is like, eh, he might do something completely outrageous in the tournament and then you don't feel so good about that contract.

So, I think that it's an entirely logical way of doing it at international football.

On the subject of why he's starting in January, I honestly don't know.

Maybe it's a financial thing.

Maybe it's something to do with his settlement with Bayern.

I'm just kind of throwing ideas out there.

It could be that, no,

it's silly to talk about stuff we don't know about.

So, no, the short answer is I do not know, but it doesn't worry me a lot.

It may be something to do with the fact that the

next international break, England have a game against the Republic of Ireland at Wembley, which comes at the height of the poppy madness that descends upon football every November.

It could be something as straightforward as that, but

we don't know.

I mean, you're asking all the right questions, Max.

I'm not having a go at you, but how will he play?

We don't know.

Will he pick Harry Kane?

We don't know.

Why is he only starting in January?

We don't know.

But it's fun to speculate, isn't it?

It is.

I think on this, I mean, Harry Kane is England's best striker.

He's one of the best strikers in the world.

If he's fit, he'll play.

The question is more, as Will was talking about,

if we go into a tournament and he's not 100%,

like,

will Tuchul have the sort of,

yeah, will he decide to go actually

my best guys, if they're not in their best shape, I will actually drop them.

These are the kind of big calls that I guess are very difficult to make.

And it's such a weird thing in international football.

I've been thinking about this because we always talk about creating a culture and creating a club atmosphere and all these sort of long-term things.

And when he picks his first squad, he will be thinking about the World Cup, I'm sure.

And that's like, again, it's 18 months ahead in time.

And that's the crazy thing to have in football.

Nowhere else in football do you pick players based on what you think will happen 18 months from now because most coaches know they'll probably be fired by then

So in a way, it's super long-term.

But on the other hand, what it comes down to is, will you make the right substitution in the 60-somethings minute of a single game?

Like that, that is like all years of work will come down down to these tiny, tiny decisions.

And I guess this is where you get in an expert like Tuchel, who has won the Champions League before, gone to the Champions League final with a different club, has been in these super high-pressure situations.

When it all is said and done, and we can have this fun discussion about borders and nation-state and English coaching pathways.

When England inevitably are in a difficult knockout game in the U.S.

against a good opponent and things are not going quite according to plan, who do you trust to make the tactical tweak to fix that, to make the right sub to do the thing?

Do you feel more confident with Thomas Tuchel on the sideline or with Graham Potter or Eddie Howe or Lee Karsley?

You know, I think Tuchel is a fair bet in that discussion.

Yeah, and actually, I mean, it sort of feels like in the last Euros, Kane and Bellingham were undroppable.

And, you know, I know my freezing cold takes, but like, you think Tuchel might have the strength to substitute one of those guys?

Mark Bullingham said there were English candidates amongst the 10 managers they spoke to.

Didn't answer directly whether or not anyone had turned down the job.

He said he couldn't talk about Pep.

Said he hasn't broken the bank to get Tuchul.

Tuchul said, I'm sorry, I have a German passport.

Maybe these supporters felt my passion for the Premier League and the country, how I love to live here and work here.

Hopefully, I can convince them and show them how proud I am to be the England manager.

I am proud.

I mean, it's worth saying the players almost certainly will not give a shit about the fact that he's German and they are quite important in all of this.

On the anthem, he says, Your anthem is very moving.

Said no one ever, but you know, well done.

Is it though?

I mean, this is this is too is there such a thing as being too diplomatic

i have experienced it i've experienced it here at wembley in the fa cup final either way i'll show respect to a very moothing anthem the next international break i guess would be weird for carsley because you know if england comes second in the nations league

then they'll have playoffs and it might affect their ceiling for the world cup draw so it's actually quite important um on people losing their mind danny mills was annoyed that tuchel wears a hoodie apparently tuchel said he bought a new suit and tie because he wanted to look like an english gent and the fa said no it was ties off off.

It was a ties off vibe for this one.

And tweet of the day came from the Carabao Cup Twitter handle.

The New England boss punching fists.

Let's take a look at Thomas Tuchel's Carabao Cup record again.

Thought nobody ever at this exact moment.

Six games, won four, lost one.

Two penalty shootout wins, runner-up in 2022, 80% win rate in the Carabao Cup.

Will, can we talk about English coaching?

And I nicked this from Five Live, but the stats are pretty interesting, I think.

The last European trophy won by an Englishman is Bobby Robson with Barcelona 97.

The last league title, Howard Wilkinson with Leeds in 92, the FA Cup Harry Redknapp 08.

The League Cup Steve McLaren 04.

Since 2003, England managers have managed just 44 games in the Champions League.

Lampard 16, Redknapp 10, Potter 7, Howe 6, Craig Shakespeare 3, Michael Carrick and Gary Neville 1.

so at the top level you know england coaches have not been good for or not been good enough for years it's an interesting one whether it's they've been good enough it's very very difficult to reach that top level for numerous factors now that obviously when you're appointing new managers if you're a director of football you are looking all over the globe you have access to the stats from the bundles league or to the argentine third division to see that a coach provides what you want, which is generally improving players.

Because obviously, the context with all these clubs are very different, but that's what you're looking at.

And you have access to that.

If you're looking at Oliver Glasner at Crystal Palace, you know what he brings to a team where you didn't have that probably even 20 years ago, really.

On top of that,

the pathway in order to get there is very difficult.

I mean, there is the opportunities,

but the starting point is coaching badges, which in this country are very expensive.

Yeah.

I will read out some statistics now now just to prove I've done the research.

But 500 quid for UA for C, 960 for B, 3,645 for A, and then for your pro license, it's almost 10 grand.

In Germany, it's 530 euros to do your A badge.

Wow.

Which shows the difference.

And

I spoke to a player this morning, who said the problem is below the top level, you can't afford it.

You look at someone like Lampard who could afford it, and let's go, he probably got his jobs off the back of his name.

That is a key factor.

So, if you're, you know, if you are an Anthony Barry, you've got to work hard just to get your foot in the door to pay for these things.

And he had a bit of luck even because he was on the same coaching course as Lampard and he thought he was really good, so he gave him a job.

And so, there was a bit of luck.

I think the other thing in English football is 18 months is the average 10-year for a manager, which is very hard, even for the best managers, to implement a philosophy and be successful and not move away from that.

That is very difficult.

Also, in terms of coaching, if you get a job in League 1-2 championship, you have 46 league matches a year.

The amount of coaching you're doing between League Cup, FA Cup, you get the pre-season, but if you're parachuting in mid-season, you've got little time to coach.

You're probably on the training ground two days a week tops, and the rest of the time is recovery or playing games.

That is a problem.

You look at other countries

where you can take time to settle, to set up a plan, to not worry too much about,

you know, obviously about losing games, but that you're going to have a period where you can implement a philosophy.

If you look at Graeme Potter, who went to Sweden and did the hard yards and like that, where he had more time, you look at Des Buckingham, say Oxford, he went abroad, you look at Liam Manning, obviously

Deepest Symphony to him this week.

They've gone abroad because you have more time, you have more games, more time between games to plan and create a philosophy and to prove your worth.

Whereas if you're in League One, you've got to keep your head above water at the very least.

And it's very few, like Kieran McKenna, who has done exceptionally well, you know, even Russell Martin, done exceptionally in the championship.

It's very, very hard to do that, to have a very specific philosophy and not move away from that, however, things are going.

But if English managers potentially thought about going abroad, where you could learn a bit more about different tactics and whatnot, and have that time to understand your own philosophy and not need to change it to be pragmatic at that level where relegation and jobs are on the line potentially.

That is probably a better career path because if you look at who's coming into the championship now, even Norwich looks abroad, Daniel Fark,

those people who've put in the hard yards and had a bit more understanding and a bit more confident maybe even in their philosophy when they come in.

And so it's a bit quicker to implement when they're in.

And so there's numerous factors.

And I actually think the coaching setup within the FA now is very good.

It's just the cost of it that is causing problems and if they sort of reduce that that would help because I think the opportunities will be found and you've seen Barry has had very good ones.

You've seen that he's learning within the FA structure and he's he's done really well.

So there are going to be those opportunities but it's just starting on that basis that English coaches at a young age coming through from outside of

the top flight maybe need a bit more help to get into into it.

And then I think English coaches need to look a bit further afield to accept that maybe

taking the job at No Offence Cambridge is very, very difficult.

Whereas if you can find the prospector somewhere else where you've got a bit more time to develop your coaching style and develop your players with it, you'll have

more fun in the long term.

It's interesting that we'll mention Glausner because I think he is an interesting example of

the Premier League and the situation for coaches there because

no English coach coach has won the Premier League in its modern iteration.

We've heard that stat a lot the last couple of days.

And also, if you just look at the number of English coaches who have finished top ten in the Premier League the last 10 years, it's not a very long list.

But part of that is because the Premier League is such an extremely profitable and popular league and such a cosmopolitan and globalized league now that someone like Oliva Glausner, who's won the Europa League and has led Wolfsburg to qualifying for the Champions League, will take the job at Crystal Palace because, you know, there's a huge amount of money to be made from coaching sort of okay mid-table teams in England and there's a huge amount of prestige in there.

So

when you come to the situation, the FA will very reasonably look at Tuchel and say, yeah, he's competed for the biggest prizes and he knows how to deal with the big egos and very few English coaches do that.

But it is difficult for English coaches to get in position where they have those chances because the pathway, you know, Thomas Tuchel, as I said, he started at Mainz.

He took over a team that had just been promoted who sacked their coach in preseason and promoted the youth team coach, which was Thomas Tockel.

And he did well at Mainz.

But even sort of newly promoted teams in England have got the finances and the reach to kind of look abroad for expertise.

Like

it is tricky.

So I completely agree with Will in that

Graham Potter and isn't an English example.

I do wonder if a lot of English coaches could do well to go abroad.

I'm not sure it's necessarily that much easier there.

There's some pretty crazy clubs outside of England in terms of how they run and how quickly you get fired and all this sort of stuff.

But

it might be a better pathway in some cases.

And you would broaden your experience and it's not a bad thing to go to a different country to do some work anyway.

It's interesting.

There's certainly a challenge with the Premier League's success is a double-edged sword for English football.

There's absolutely no doubt about that.

Yeah.

And the only other thing I was thinking was

we are creating a lot of very good English players.

And I don't know if that is foreign coaches at when they b reach, you know, the top level, or just there are really good coaches when players in academies, when players are 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.

Will I think with the players now that you're seeing, and a lot more technical players, Palmer, Voden, obviously, I'll think of some examples that aren't from Man City's Academy, but the academy structure changed, what, 20 odd years ago, and they had different coaching.

Whereas when I was young, I'm still the youngest person on this panel, I think.

I'm fine.

You didn't get that coaching as well.

I didn't get that coaching, but

we at under 11s were playing on massive pitches son you know and and playing to win and you know i played with people at academies and they went and they were playing to win at the weekend in a massive pitches at 11 years old at city or united or whatever that for development was absolutely atrocious it was who could kick it the hardest and the furthest and so and stephen jarrell is a great player but possibly born out of that a little bit

more physical midfielders etc then they changed where it's development that you're playing 8v8 or 7v7 on small pitches and growing and building on things like that and results aren't as important you know it is about development you know you speak to people at academies and it's all about you know development and creating good habits and winning is a good habit for football I should say but that changed and then with it the coaching is changing at that level where you somehow maybe get a youth team coach like Akira McKenna up to first team level is a tricky prospect still.

But as long as the players keep progressing like they are, I think the coaching will follow it.

And that is a lot of it based on good

English coaching and a good change to the plan.

And

it will keep getting better, I think.

And I think on top because of that, eventually there will be a breakthrough somewhere.

And once one English coach potentially does very well, it will change the narrative a little bit and with it, you know, more coaches will get their opportunities, I think.

But people think everything needs to be switched in a second.

It was probably ten, twelve years ago that St George's Park Park was built, and those sort of things are changing.

These things take time.

Industries take time to change.

And if we're having the same conversation in five years' time, yeah, something's gone terribly wrong.

But Tuchel was definitely the best candidate for everyone out there.

I'm sure Graham Potter would have done a good job, but maybe he, you know, in context, maybe he doesn't want it at the moment because he's been out of a club job for a while and wants to get back into a club.

Eddie Howe doesn't want to leave Newcastle.

I mean, after that, obviously, you stropping, but context is still quite interesting.

Yeah, it does remind me of, I don't think it's apocryphal.

I think I read Danny Taylor write a piece about it, my old favourite John Beck, who gave cash bonuses to players who could kick it the furthest.

And that is how football should be played.

Can I just ask Max in the interest of pedantry and correct me if I

wasn't listening properly, did you have Scott Parker in your list of English managers who played Champions League games?

Well, I didn't and we can blame the BBC because I lifted their stats from them.

So shame on you, BBC.

Cancel the licence fee.

But yeah, good point, Barry.

Thank you.

That'll do for part one.

We'll look at the Premier League games in parts two and three.

Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the California Lottery.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Liverpool Chelsea seems the game of the weekend.

Stephen says, Mareska versus Slot.

I'm intrigued.

And I need the panel's thoughts.

ASAP.

Barry, I need your thoughts.

ASAP.

Yeah, I always find it tricky previewing games like this.

It's the 4.31 on the Sunday.

They often, you know, two big heavyweight elite Premier League sides.

These games often don't live up to the pre-match hype.

I

would expect Liverpool to win, but I think Chelsea will make the more card for it.

Both teams have been playing well.

Both teams look a little flawed.

And

I don't know what's going to happen in this game is the short answer.

But

I do expect it to be good.

I tip Liverpool as my potential title winners at the start of the season.

I have seen nothing yet to suggest that

they might not win the title.

I think they're live contenders and people don't really seem to be considering them live contenders.

You could say the same for Chelsea and

they've been pretty good as well for all the talk about the chaos that has engulfed the club.

You know, their actual team is decent.

It is, yeah.

I suppose, Lars, you could say, is this Liverpool's first real test?

Yeah, I think you can, and I think that's why this run of Liverpool games now is super interesting.

We haven't talked that much about them, as Barry points out, as title contenders.

And I think, and in a way, that's unfair because they're top of the league and they have the best XG as well.

So, I mean, it's all looking good.

But it is the fixture list: you can only play what's in front of you, but you can only assess teams based on who they've played.

And they've so played, let me read them out, Ipswich, Brentford, Man men united notting forest bournemouth wolves and palace in the league like that's not

that that's not a very strong that there's no games there you would expect them to lose really uh not even united this current united i would include and they and they have lost one of those yeah against forest so so now again this is turning into lars reads out fixtures which is a really bad idea for podcasts but like they're now going to play chelsea they're going to play arsenal they're going to play brighton they're going to play with villa and just in the next four and i just think that'll give us a much better idea where they're at now it's possible that they're just great and will continue to win most of their games, but I feel like we'll learn a lot more about what Arnis Lott's Liverpool looks like, which again is part of the reason why this game is really difficult to preview and predict in any meaningful way.

Chelsea are without Wesley Fafan and Mark Cuccarella for this, because I think they're both suspended.

Yeah, they've started every game in that Chelsea side, so it will be interesting to see who comes in.

I guess

Chilwell

will he get a run out?

Renato Vega, yeah, and then you've uh Torsenada Raboyo, Baddishealy, Axel Dezazi, who we haven't seen much of.

So, um, yeah, I suspect Chelsea will miss those two.

Coca-Cola and Prohitru.

Yeah, uh, well, you're going to this one.

Uh, what are you looking forward to most?

I'm looking forward to Ryan Gravenberge playing in front of the defence with someone like Cole Palmer in the vicinity because he's done exceptionally well in the app position.

And we've all I assume had a bit a few doubts of how it would how he would play it and he's done really well.

Very much keeps possession, starts the attacks, but you know, has been really good at intercepting and recovering the ball.

But he did, I'd say, struggle a bit in that forest defeat where there were a lot of people in that position.

Morgan Gibbs White was in there, Forest pat in the midfield.

But when Palmer on the form he's in,

that extra bit of quality that you need to be on top of at all times.

It'll be interesting to see if he changes a little bit to be more defensively minded, or if they put him and, say, McAllister, a bit deeper than they've been used to and a little less freedom.

That'll be the interesting bit because that, as I say, this is the first real test, because beating 14th place Manchester United away was not a test.

And this will be, as I say, this run of games will be interesting, but that dynamic in...

in front of the Liverpool defence, how that goes, I think, will be the fascinating bit of the game.

And I'll probably write about that now.

Yes, Brentford have the not test of going to Old Trafford.

There was a board meeting.

I misunderstood.

I thought that Ten Hag was there, but it was a board meeting that took seven hours.

You could possibly talk about an hour six of that.

Understood that Ten Hag's future was high on the agenda, with the entire agenda, but no official statements from the club,

although they never usually would for a regular meeting like this.

A monthly board meeting with Big Sir Jim, Omar Barada, Dan Ashworth, Jason Wilcox were there.

Sir Alex Ferguson has become the victim of Big Sir Jim's cost-cutting measures.

He'll leave his role as an ambassador.

John Bruin writing, since his appointment as a club ambassador in 2013, after stepping down as manager, he'd been a recipient of a lucrative stipend with the company accounts in 2014 showing he received over 2 million for that role.

Quite a calm response from Rio Ferdinand on X, who said, if Sir Alex can be taken out, then capital letters, no one is safe.

Man United, anyone can get it now Enios sending a message to anyone at the club question mark exclamation mark question mark well I saw Ben Ainslie lost his first two races in the Americas Cup finalist is he under pressure from big Sir Jim

sailing under an Enneos flag uh

I mean

I really hope Big Sir Jim turns out to be the Charlotte I really think he is.

But my favourite part of Manchester United football matches now is when the camera cuts to all these numpties sitting in the director's box, you know, and all looking solemn.

I think they will beat Brentford, I must say.

But I say that with no confidence whatsoever.

But yeah, part of me really hopes they don't.

But I just,

I'm fully on Team Barry with regards to my suspicions about Ennios and big Sir Jane Radcliffe.

But

I also think, do they really need to pay Sir Alex Ferguson 2 million a year?

Like, that seems like if you're going in and taking over that club and you're looking at where the sort of dead weight is,

dead weight is maybe not a good phrase, but where we're spending money that could be best spent elsewhere.

I do feel

paying 2 million a year to Sir Alex Ferguson, as much as he's done incredible things for that football club.

And then, you know, that feels like you does he need that?

Is he probably all right for money?

Well, let's not forget, Lars, it was Sir Alex's greed over the ownership of a racehorse which led to the Glazers coming to United in the first place.

And there was almost a sort of element of him being this spectre at the feast, the ghost of Banquo, you know, who I'd say his presence that probably wasn't helpful for quite a few Manchester United managers who were trying to fill his boots with varying degrees of failure.

So with the best will in the world to him and all he's done for that club, I suspect it's probably a good thing he's been cut loose yeah although I mean for those you know those

people on LinkedIn that you referred to who they cut to in the crowd they probably quite like Sir Alex to be there so the camera cuts to them to him instead of them when Brentford score after 35 seconds I said the interesting thing for this will is that Man United want potentially wanted Tuchel and now they can't have him so like Eric Ten Hag is sort of sitting there going, well, it's a, you know, another chance for me.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, it goes back to conversation before, but limited number of available elite coaches, and England have arguably got the best one now.

United in a very strange position with Ten Hag, where clearly it's not working at the moment, but they backed him over the summer eventually after talking to everyone and their dog about seeing if they could take over.

And so now they really have to back him with this new structure in place with the signings that are really geared towards him.

A lot of Dutch players, et

people who've come through the IX system.

And that's what that's going to take time.

You look at Agarti doesn't look like he's settled, Zerxe doesn't look like he's settled.

Delicht looks questionable at best.

But they have to somehow give him time because they need to prove that one way or another that...

he was allowed all the opportunities to prove himself.

People say that

seven, eight games into the season, he's not had that.

And they're really going to struggle to then replace him in the long term.

So then they'll be back with another Solschelle situation if they did sack him and have to give it to Van Nistelroy or someone, which probably isn't ideal based on Van Distroy's limited management experience.

And that's the problem they're going to be stuck in.

And things are pretty bleak.

United performances aren't great overall.

They drew it William.

It wasn't a particularly good performance.

He's had to sacrifice play at his supposedly first-choice centre-back pairing and give Johnny Evans man of the match.

It's difficult.

There's still no sort of obvious philosophy at United.

He's got dead weight again, like Anthony's earning a lot more than two million pounds a year to provide very little to the football club.

Certainly not an ambassador, I would suggest.

No, but he's also someone who often sits in the stand and looks sad, so you and you cut to him.

So the function is very similar.

The only thing going for United at the moment is that there is somewhere within that squad a lot of talent.

And if they manage to beat a good team like Brentford,

maybe

they have the chance to kick on.

But then they've got Brentford trip to Fenabache, which I'm sure they won't really fancy.

And it's, you know, that constant tune of games and trying to get out of this cycle at the moment of underwhelming performances with these difficult fixtures and travel, et cetera, it's got to be really difficult.

But Ten Haag has got till the next international break now, I assume, to show that he can do it.

And if it stays at 14th in the Premier League, he's really going to struggle to justify his job.

Man said to go to Wolves.

You know, there was talk, I think on Monday, we were discussing Barry about Pep, possibly Bigny, the England manager.

City rumoured to be looking at Ruben Amarin as a replacement

if Pep leaves at the end of the season, Lars.

Amarin, sensible?

Yeah, well, I mean, obviously, with Hugo Viana coming in to replace Chiki Bergeristan at the end of the season, Amarim is a very obvious link.

to make.

He seems like a smart guy, a good coach.

I'm kind of surprised he didn't go anywhere in the summer.

That's kind of, but I don't know if that's, there's anything to that more than just two plus two equals equals who equals Ruben Amarim.

I was expecting City to wobble more so far this season with the sort of uncertainties around

uncertainties around Guardiola as future and all the charges hanging over them and all that.

But generally, they've been okay, but it's the whole Rodri being absent thing, which they don't seem to fully come to grips with yet.

And both Rodri and Kevin DeBroni like as great as City are and as they have squad depth and the team they'll put out is still going to be amazing and they'll still probably beat wolves but take the best defensive midfielder and probably the best playmaker in the world out of a team and that's a that's a that's a big swing and if we're talking about other teams potentially winning the title like that

the Rodri injury I feel like is the biggest thing that's happened so far in the season in terms of swinging how I feel about the title race.

I think Fulham should have beaten them.

Fulham played played them off the pitch for quite long periods of that game before the international break.

A trip to Wolves is not exactly

a prospect to be terrified by.

I noticed Wolves parted company with their set piece coach during the international break, a fellow called Jack Wilson, who had previously worked at Man City and Brentford.

Wolves aren't very good at defending set pieces.

And after they got pummeled by Brentford last time out Gary O'Neill sounded beaten he just sounded you know people want to have the players lost faith and it's almost like he's lost faith in himself so yeah the visit of City is unlikely to improve his mood but you never know no no and you know in a way he survived the international break which I think was a surprise to some i've seen a few wolves games this season in which they like haven't looked terrible but they've lost but i also look at like seven games in i think is enough of a a sample size to start looking at the stats.

And like, they have the

third worst XG balance in the league.

Only Leicester City and Ipswich Town have got worse XG numbers so far.

So

looking kind of bad for Wolves.

I don't see the sort of the silver lining there.

And the squad's not very strong.

And you're kind of expecting...

One thing you're expecting Gary O'Neill to do is make them kind of solid and

to fight well and be well set up for a game.

And just the way they fell apart against Brentford, it's the one thing you expect them not to do.

And if they're doing that, in addition to all the other shortcomings, it's yeah, it's looking pretty bad.

Bournemouth Arsenal, Bakaya Saka was injured in that England game against Greece.

Arsenal, hopeful that he'll be back available for this game.

There was a video on Arsenal's social media of Martin Edegaard getting his fitness back on an anti-gravity treadmill, which, according to producer Joel, is sadly nowhere near as fun as he hoped it would be.

I think you imagine just floating around in space trying to eat Pringles or whatever Homer Simpson did.

But will we expect Arsenal to get to beat Bournemouth?

Wouldn't you, in the sort of

the new relentless Arsenal that we have discovered this season?

Actually, not this season, I mean, for quite a while now.

Bournemouth aren't really set up for these big teams.

Speaking of pragmatic coaches, Oriola just plays the same way most of the time.

And when you come up against a better opposition, they're quite easy to play for us at the Liverpool game.

It was pretty simple, really, after the early stages.

They create a decent amount of chances, but you know, Ivan Nielsen doesn't look like a Premier League number nine yet.

So, I don't think Arsenal will be too concerned about this fixture.

You know, when you play against open teams, it's quite simple, really, for when you've got the quality, you know, even with Odegaard

working with NASA, they should have plenty to get through them.

And,

you know, good area sticking to his guns on these things, but

occasionally it might be a better idea to have a plan B to ground out the odd point.

But, you know, when you've got a plan, you've got a plan.

I'm wondering if we'll get a fifth consecutive goal in a start from Kai Havertz.

Will he make it five games in a row?

And if so, will the bakers of the nation simply run out of humble pie that needs to be served to the various Kai doubters, the haters and the losers who have never believed in Kai, who will now have to front up their foolishness because the year of the season of Kai is happening.

Finally, the Kai

is doing the things.

Yeah, he's scoring proper number nine headers.

You know, he's a very talented player.

He just needs to get a bit more beef on him than everyone would think he was.

A big number nine.

Barry, we've got Southampton-Leicester and Ipswich-Everton.

It's a huge day at the bottom of the Premier League.

Yeah,

Ipswich-Everton's an interesting one.

Ipswich got battered by West Ham last time out.

Everton had that quite dull scoreless draw with Newcastle.

Does Kieran McKenna know his best team?

I'm not sure.

Sammy Smolich starting on the wing.

I know some are someone that pointed out Conor Chaplin, who I think was one of the big successes of their promotional season, has only started one Premier League game this season.

No one seems to know why.

Everton, presumably the mood around the club is going to be upbeat now that they know the Friedman group are coming in and they've avoided that seven, seven, seven group disaster.

A home game for Ips, which they they could really do with getting a win on the board i know they're not you know there are worse teams than them in the league but

uh i yeah they could do with getting a win on the board i'm not sure they'll get it here spurs west ham lars feels like a big game for spurs feels like we say this every week this stop start season not just like game by game but parts of games like they were obviously they beat man united 3-0 Then they were tuned up against Brighton, absolutely cruising, looking brilliant, and threw it away.

And they can't keep doing it.

I mean, they're very good at home.

I think Son is still injured, which is an issue because, you know, replacing him with Werner is a step down, but I feel like they have to win against West Ham.

Yeah, so...

Because we've seen glimpses of what good Tottenham looks like under Ange this season, but we've also seen glimpses of the familiar failings.

It does feel like it's kind of at a balancing point in terms of the mood and the vibe.

And this is reflected in the table as well.

I mean, Tottenham are their ninth, but they're four points off of fourth.

They are also four points off of 15th.

So, I mean, they're right.

And that's sort of the next couple of runner games, I feel, will kind of do a lot to determine how a lot of people feel about how the season's going and how Project Ange is going.

So, you're right.

I think this is a pretty huge game.

And as we know, West Ham always seemed to get very excited about playing Tottenham.

So, even though this is an early Saturday game with a lot of people only having just come back from international break, and those are not always great fixtures, I feel like this has the ingrediences to be quite lively i noticed the other day um jed spence signed a new improved deal and i'm just looking at it going why

i mean

he's played 10 times for spurs he's been on three loan deals one of which ended early because of disciplinary issues and uh he's not even in their europa league squad so

Why would you offer a player like that a contract extension?

I think he's actually impressed sort of this preseason.

My understanding is, and I might be wrong, that basically Ange wanted to get rid of him last season, but he didn't.

And he's turned up this preseason and had a really good one and had a big impact in a couple of games in Coventry in the League Cup.

And perhaps they're looking at it thinking that he's quite a nippy right back.

And, you know, that is cover for Pedro Porron.

Oh, actually, Greg can play there as well.

But a good fit.

I mean, in a sense,

it's a good sign for him that he's sort of knuckled down and overcome them to get a new contract.

And perhaps a sign that Ange isn't quite so stubborn that he might look at a player and change his mind on him.

But it was interesting, yeah.

When I saw that, I was interested to see it.

That's for sure.

Fulham Villa and Newcastle Brighton could both be great games, actually.

I don't know if anyone has anything vitally important to say about any of these things.

I guess anyhow, now not going to England, Barry, is a good thing for stability at Newcastle.

Yeah, I guess so.

Brighton have a pretty horrific injury list going into this game.

Pedro Van Heck,

who would be

two of the first names down the team sheet are out.

Milner's still out.

Matt O'Reilly, Simon O'Dingra.

I think Jorginho Ruta might be out as well.

Adam Webster.

So a lot of injury concerns for Newcastle or for Brighton to contend with.

This could be a really good game.

Yeah, just a note on Fulham.

Ral Jimenez scored for Mexico in their win over Potatino's lands on fire.

MN2.

Yeah, he is.

It's great to see.

And actually, Harry Wilson's been brilliant for Wales, but only played 36 minutes in the league for Fulham so far this season.

Anyway, that'll do for part two.

We'll round up any other business in part three.

Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game, Day Scratches from the California Lottery.

Players everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question.

Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the California Lottery.

A little play can make your day.

Please play responsibly.

Must be 18 years or older to purchase, play, or claim.

Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Also in

World Cup qualifiers, Bolivia came down to sea level with a bump.

They lost 6-0 in Argentina.

A hat-trick for Leonard Messi.

Brazil beat Peru 4-0.

Lars, last time I talked to you about Norway, you were very positive about them.

And they got absolutely hammered by Austria.

What happened there?

I mean, I feel like we almost don't need, I can't believe I'm saying that.

We almost don't need to have Norway corner because I think

this international break was just what I kind of expect from them now, which is that they were great attacking against Slovenia.

And then we had a defensive meltdown against austria and that's kind of the squad we have some great attackers and we have some really iffy defenders so that's gonna happen and it's kind of hard to

there is rumblings about the coach but i also if you look at the goals norway concede they tend to be like bizarre individual errors and i'm not sure a change of coach will fix that i think we just need to sort of

look through the forest and the trees and the lakes and try to unearth a center half from somewhere who knows what he's doing because that's we seem to be short on that couple of emails to finish.

Amanda says, Hi, Max Barry, and everyone.

I've been meaning to write to thank you for your podcast for some time, but Johnny Liu's comment that sport is cosplay for nationalism tipped me over the edge, and here I am.

I'm a Canadian lawyer, mum, and recent fan.

I came to club football after the last Men's World Cup, expecting to love PSG, but under your tutelage, coming to the Premier League with all of its warts.

I admit, I only have time to keep an eye on the top chunk of the table, mostly watching Arsenal and Liverpool.

Brighton, when they're exciting, Spurs, because I'd love a beer with Ange, Villa, Villa because what a pair of seasons.

Not all the games because family, I probably would have stopped watching even quite so much.

Expect I'd like to know what you folks are talking about come Monday morning so the pod drives the watching.

Thank you for the social commentary which mitigates the guilt of spending so much time watching so much money run around with a ball.

Thank you also for the minute-by-minute reporting.

I teach a few law classes at McGill and I use an excerpt as an example of perfect writing.

I admit I'm slightly concerned by how often you're expected to produce an episode.

I can imagine it gets hard to maintain your enthusiasm for the game.

Feel free to let the bosses know that I'd be just as happy with fewer episodes.

By the end of the Euros, I was listening only out of solidarity for how much work you were doing.

Not really because I had the stomach for so much content.

Take care and thank you, Amanda.

Barry, your minute-by-minutes are being used at a law class at McGill University, one of the best universities in the world.

Honorary doctorate incoming.

That's very nice.

I'm not sure what I would put in a minute-by-minute report that would be of any use to

law professor or lecturer.

I'd be curious to know.

Is it an example of everything that's wrong?

Have I libeled someone?

Well, I suppose we don't have exactly the...

I don't think we're certain that it's one of your minute-by-minutes.

So, you know, it could be one of the better ones.

But it could be one of yours.

It could be one of yours, Will.

Who knows?

But they are excellent.

I enjoy them.

Maybe Maybe we'll do a live show in Quebec to say thank you to Amanda.

And finally, Erica says,

hello, Max, my name is Erica.

I'm reaching out to you for a special favor for my football nut of a fiancé, Ryan.

He's turning 40 on the 17th today.

He listens to the Guardian Football Weekly pod religiously.

He's a huge Manchester United fan and, as you know, clearly in pain due to the poor performance of his squad as of late.

He says it's brutal out here in this world being a United fan almost every every day.

We attended the Premier League Fan Fest in Chicago, where we live a few weeks ago and had a blast.

Would you and the gang be willing to give him a shout out?

Not sure if it's permitted on the pod, but I'm more than happy to pay for a video a bit like those cameo offers.

I want to surprise him and really just celebrate how wonderful he is.

Thank you so much for reading and/or considering.

So there you are, Erica.

Yes, we're not going to charge you.

Well, I'm not.

I mean, I don't know what you think, Barry.

I'll take any money you've scored.

If you see Barry out and about in Chicago, he'd like just give me some $100.

He'd be like $100.

Well, you know, we are planning, Barry, aren't we?

We are planning on being in the United States for the World Cup 2026.

That is the loose plan at this stage.

Although I am threatening to bring my whole family to live with you and producer Joel on the West Coast somewhere.

And

I can't remember.

I seem to...

We were talking about this and I was saying, look, you know,

I was given the idea that it was an imposition on us as a family to have you and Joel there, but actually, you put me right to say it's an imposition that I am bringing

a clan.

But if anyone does have a ranch on the west coast of America with room for five and good Wi-Fi, do let us know.

That'd be quite useful, wouldn't it?

You're looking forward to that trip, Barry?

Not as much as you.

Oh, why not?

And it'll be six, won't it?

Uh, yeah, I'm yeah, four of us.

Two of them very small, yeah, quite small.

Yeah.

And loud.

Well, they'd have to be loud.

But so if somebody has a ranch with an annex,

that's what we're looking for.

A little granny flag for me.

So I don't have to interact.

But we've established that the west coach.

Anytime we're not doing a podcast, I can just.

I get the feeling we're watching football all day.

As far as I said, the west coast of the state is the only place you can be where you can watch all the games without for a month without wanting to

uh never watch football again anyway um that'll do for today uh can we put barry on a horse somehow i would like for that if you go to a ranch yeah absolutely that's how we'll get to the studio and back he'll have spurs and a cowboy hat i could ride a horse i know how to ride a horse do you how blase

uh not so well can i can i thank uh the cortinas liam fray who is a listener for helping sort my wedding for next week thank you very much because obviously it's going to be a shit show what's he did is he playing?

No, God, no.

And what's he doing?

Oh, he's just lent me a venue.

But

it was very generous.

Thank you, Liam.

Yeah,

he's a lovely man.

He's a lovely man.

He comes to the live shows in Manchester and he likes the pod.

So hello, Liam, and thanks for sorting Will out.

Producer John says, Is the venue Heaton Park?

Yeah, it's a massive concert.

25,000 of my closest friends are coming.

Yeah, and we're still not invited.

I mean, Baz, if you want to come, you're very welcome.

Max, similar Lars, also, Joel.

I'm surprised you went to me first there, but I'll, yeah, of course.

Oh, great.

Everyone to the unwinds for the after party.

Okay, well, look, thanks, everybody.

Have I thanked you personally, everyone?

Because I like to do that.

Thank you, Lars.

I haven't been thanked yet, but I've been thanked now, and I appreciate it, Max.

Thank you.

Thank you.

No, thank you.

Thank you, Will.

Thank you very much, Max.

Tears Barry.

Thanks.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.