Transfer tittle tattle and the Scottish football season kicks off – Football Weekly podcast

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Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly pre-season hot sup.

Manchester United's inverted commas crisis close inverted commas deepens as we're two weeks away from the season.

Are the United fans amongst us nervous or is this just our agenda?

Manchester City find 2 million for delaying kickoffs.

That's the biggest charges against them.

Finally sorted.

Chelsea having a tough old time, but look to have offloaded one of their own.

Liverpool, no signings.

Newcastle trying to get gay and West Ham getting a big man.

And then to the depressing riots happening across the UK.

Given the link between the far right and football hooliganism in the past, should we be worried worried that might spread as the season starts?

Should football's authorities step up before it happens.

We'll do a bit of a mailbag and and there's Fitbar Corner.

Bastard Jim is here after the opening day of the Scottish Premiership, and he comes with a proper health warning for middle-aged men.

Not suggesting that all are listeners aren't middle-aged men, but yes, you are.

All that plus your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Morning, Max.

I would take issue with the fact that Barcelona Jim is a middle-aged man.

He's near a senior citizen.

Well, we'll get to that.

John Bruin, hello.

Hello.

Noradine Chowdhury, welcome.

Hi, yeah.

We have a strong Manchester United supporting contingent on the pod today.

I don't know how much attention either of you are paying to pre-season.

You got beaten by Liverpool, 3-0 at the weekend.

Lenny Yorrow's out.

Three defenders had to go off in this game.

Wambasaka, Lindelof, and Johnny Evans.

Norz, are you just ignoring this or has the crisis begun?

It's one of those where you kind kind of take your positives where you can get them where like pre-season you either ignore it.

If bad things happen, it's only pre-season.

If good things happen, you've found the next messier or whatever.

Like there was been a lot of excitement around Ahmad and about his emergence

on the right.

I think that's partly to do with him being a really good player, a really good talented player

and also the possibility of Anthony not being in the team.

So it's a combination of the two.

And there was a bit of excitement around Harry Amas at left back.

He's he's he's not quite ready yet, but like he's an exciting talent.

But apart from that, I mean, there's not much to be garnered, especially any preseason that's after a tournament, all the players are away anyway.

So, it's it's it's one of those.

It's it's it's incredibly bad luck about uh Lenny Oro, uh, but uh, but yeah, I think it's one of those where, like, if you're a if you're an injury-prone defender or not an injury-prone defender, just join United and uh, and enjoy the

enjoy Carrington.

John, I spent the weekend at a Norwegian Death Metal Festival.

So I haven't.

So I haven't been

too focused on Manchester United's breeze seasons.

But then again, I never am.

Can I just ask, can I just ask, can you tell the difference between two Death Metal songs?

Like, have you heard one?

Well, not readily, no.

I mean, like, it's a very good one.

Right, okay.

I'll tell you who I saw, actually.

I saw the might

headlined by Poland's mighty Behemoth,

veteran Newcastle rockers Venom,

who actually created the

genre Black Metal with the song Black Metal.

Right.

Cult of Fire, Dark Space.

You're sort of getting a vibe of what this all was about.

Sounds like United's pre-season, that it does, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Dark Venom away.

Yeah, I reckon Venom could, yeah.

The Venom got into Lenny Yoro, didn't it?

The Manchester Avenue.

But I mean, listen,

Nos will remember this, I'm sure remember Louis Van Haal's pre-season 2014 after the World Cup Man United in a series of you know UCLA stadiums smashed all comers and everyone was like United are back and they really weren't and

we've seen quite a few people teams have bad preseasons Pep Guadiola has never really put anything by

preseasons I tend to think Pep knows what he's doing.

We all know what Manchester United as a team are about.

I don't think they've signed enough players to change what they are about.

Norse makes a good point in the sense that there are certain players that will stand out, like last season.

Cobby Maynu stood out in a friendly against Arsenal.

Suddenly you think you've got a player there.

But beyond that, we know what these things are.

We also know that the managers don't want to do these things.

They'd rather be, you know, in the mountains around Salzburg or something like that, getting fresh air.

These things are about making money.

They're not really about football.

They just mean nothing pre-season like you ask me in two weeks manchester united's pre-season results i will not remember anything but i'll remember death metal what's the what's the what's the t-shirt by the way

oh that's the festival actually beyond the gates the the only two people i'm aware of that like death metal are you and comedy's ed gamble i've now this vision of you running around oslope setting fire to churches over the weekend

It was in Bergen, Barry.

It was in an ex-sardine factory.

So there you go.

I just definitely want to stay the other side of the gates.

That's how I feel about being on the gates.

Outside the gates, please.

One ticket.

There was no cold play.

Listen,

that was the first rule.

First rule of death matter.

Really?

No cold play.

Absolute disgrace.

I suppose it's interesting, Barry, isn't it?

If you talk about an impending crisis before the season started, you do get accused of having an agenda and

I don't think any well certainly you and I wouldn't mind if Manchester United had a terrible start to the season because it would be interesting and it would be a big story at the start of the season I don't read anything into preseason results but I suppose if they are bad um

certain people do tend to panic I think lots of Chelsea fans are panicking over their bad preseason

You know, they've got been 4-0 down in two different games.

They were 2-0 down against City inside five minutes on whatever Saturday night, Sunday morning, whenever it was.

But I wouldn't panic.

If I was a Manchester United fan, I'd be clinging to the fact that our last competitive match was the cup final and arguably the best performance they put in last season.

So, you know, let's work with that and not concern ourselves with the preseason results.

Do you think Nod that they need to invest more?

Are you desperately refreshing the gossip pages for more signing?

Yeah, I mean, I think they need.

I mean, it's very easy to say, oh, just spend money and buy more players, but I think there is a problem where

United still haven't got the right players.

But it's this issue with

Financial Fair Play and everything where they have to sell before they can buy.

And it's hard to offload players at United, mainly because of the salaries, but for other reasons as well.

So, for instance, if United wanted to cut their losses with Anthony and Casemiro,

they couldn't at present.

It's not as if they could just give them away for free and get the wage bills

of the club accounts because

it would have a negative effect on

how much they can spend on players.

So, it's a difficult one.

And you've got players like Scott McTominay, who the future is uncertain for, and

Juan Bissaka.

So, it's this juggling thing of like, can they get rid of players?

And again, it's that thing of getting the right players in because Juan Wanbisaka is a great one-on-one defender, but he's not right for United, and therefore, they might well get a player who's similar in terms of quality.

Well, similar in terms of overall quality, but just a different kind of player, which is which would benefit the team.

So it's one of those.

I'm really excited about Xerxe.

Everything I've seen about him, he looks like a proper old-fashioned flair player.

So

I think he will be.

Can you tell us a bit more about him?

No,

I can pretend to.

I mean, everything I've seen.

Everything I've seen,

if you just watched him play, I think,

I mean, very stereotypical, but you'd assume he's a Brazilian player just because of the way he dribbles and everything.

So, yeah, that's exciting.

I think for a lot of United fans,

it would just be nice to have a little bit of

excitement going to the games because

they were quite boring last season.

Wasn't Xerxe, the guy that got the late call-up from the Netherlands for the Euros.

He was on holidays in Florida and he had to do a sort of dash back.

Right.

He's come from Bologna, hasn't he?

And Bologna is the cool club to buy players from.

He's a California at Fiori that Arsenal.

That were managed by Thiago Motta last season.

And, you know, every year there's one club that gets plundered because they don't have the financial fair play to to get away from actually having their players taken away from them and it does appear you need a bologna player if you're going to be in the in crowd

he wasn't buying before it perhaps didn't work out from there um

but the thing is actually that's the market that manchester united are now in because they can't they can't they can't no longer go they can no longer go for the galactico player that just is going to go right i'm going to manchester united they're not you know they're not enough of a proposition for the top players so you have to go for the players that have something to prove and have a lot of talent.

Yeah, they're after Masrai and Delict as well, which would both be quite interesting, I think.

You mentioned Chelsea Barry.

Craven says, Can Enzo Maresca turn this around?

Joey says, Are Chelsea hell bent on destroying themselves, or is this still all part of the plan?

John, you wanted to talk about Conor Gallagher, actually, but

he's on his way to Madrid this morning to finalise personal terms with Athleti.

I did notice that he committed 16 more fouls than anyone else in the Premier League.

I like the idea that Simeoni only looks at that chart chart when he signs players, but

it doesn't feel right

letting him go.

I mean, it feels wrong in the sense that

it's old-fashioned, and we were often accused of being thinking of old-fashioned

players that you like at a club or the players that you can identify are the players that come through the youth ranks quite a lot of the time.

Now, football's changed a lot because of the demographic of fandom, because, you know, Chelsea have a lot of fans that are abroad and have no interest in the fact that Connor Gallagher is a South London geezer.

But

it's a truism.

You look at the best teams that have ever played football and they will have a core of players that came through a youth academy.

By the way, Chelsea have one of the best youth academies in the world, of which a couple of key personnel have left this summer.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

And the other thing about the Conor Gallagher thing is

this is rather depressing briefing about the fact he's no longer allowed to train with a club.

You know, it was like Connor Gallagher's served that club as well as he can.

He's been away on Palace.

He was, you know, he was captain for them.

You can't say that you mentioned he's fouling.

You can't say that player's not played without commitment for them.

Yeah.

Sorry, yeah, anyway.

You're back to this idea that they are just dispensable, you know, as Roy Key would always say.

And

Connor Gallagher is a guy that had been at Chelsea since he was a kid, come through, and then, because there's a decent offer from Athletico Athletico or whoever else wants to buy him, and Spurs last season, they just get rid of him.

And

there is this issue, isn't there, of financial fair play, profit sustainability, the pure profit thing.

We're back to that again, aren't we?

Noz mentioned Scott McTominay.

So Scott McTominay would be a useful player for Manchester United next season, but you can sell him for 40, 50 million pure profit.

That's what's happened with Gallagher.

And I think...

Most Chelsea fans would identify with Gallagher as one of their own and would like to have him around, but the money men dictate that you have to get rid of those players and he'll be replaced by somebody who may not be very good.

But Chelsea, if I can play devil's advocate, claim that they offered him

an extra two years with a club option for a third year on significantly higher wages that would have put him in the earning bracket of

Moise Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez, and he turned them down.

Barry, did they not do this to Mason Mount a couple of years ago?

Which was Mason Mount wants too much money?

Because Mason Mount and Goner Gallagher can turn to their England colleagues and say, How much money do you earn?

And it will be a lot more money than Enzo Fernandez and Moise Cassedo, because remember, Chelsea operate this wage structure, which keeps the wages low.

And one of the things about Cole Palmer is he's actually, once Cole Palmer was really good, they had to offer him a lot more money to break that system.

So it's not unbreakable.

So, why is Kyle Palmer getting the treatment?

Obviously, he might be a better player.

I think that they've used him like a piece of heat.

That's the Roy Keene phrase, isn't it?

Look, I don't disagree with you, but I'm sort of playing Devil's Advocate.

Their argument seems to be that we don't know if he will suit Enzomaresko's style of play.

Yes, yes, so we're going, we're offering him this deal.

Should he prove himself capable of fitting into this style of play, then he will

possibly be able to earn himself a longer contract further down the line.

And obviously, it's a blow to his ego when he sees these young players who aren't as accomplished as him coming in on 25-year contracts, and he's only been offered two.

So I get both sides, sort of.

But

yeah, Chelsea do seem to be briefing, you know, that he's an ingrate and he should accept what we're offering him because it's perfectly generous.

Well,

it's a club run by venture capitalists trading players as assets, essentially.

That doesn't equal a football club to me.

I don't know about you.

It's bad venom.

That's what it is.

It's venomous.

It's black metal.

That's it.

To Manchester City, Pep says that he'll make his halftime team talk shorter after the club were fined for repeatedly being late to start matches and after half-time.

We briefly mentioned this on Thursday.

They've been five £2 million for being late to start a game after halftime on 22 occasions last season.

As producer Joel says, given the clips you occasionally see, imagine listening to Pep's halftime team talks.

It's absolutely exhausting anyway.

Also, if they're having 22 out of 38 games, Moten then probably like 4-0 up anyway.

I don't know what you think of this, Nas, if this is...

sort of nothing or actually they are game if they have been sort of gaming the system by coming out late.

I mean, I mean, all the things you can accuse City of, I don't, I can't, I can't believe that that's some kind of psychological game.

They don't need that.

I think it's literally, it's, it will literally just be Pep Guardiola like

grabbing players and explaining things in a lot of detail.

It's so funny over the summer where you've seen him at like basketball games or like at Wimbledon, just sort of whoever's next to him explaining in great detail what needs to change and what's happening.

God, I don't need Stan Verinka's backhand.

I've just come here for a pins, mate, you know.

But yeah, it must be exhausting.

Wasn't it Zlassan who said, is it who sort of just had enough and

had to remove himself

from the club just because

these constant conversations with Pep were too much?

Did you see that footage of Zlatan and Pep actually have some sort of buddy up?

But it seemed a bit terse, didn't it?

It was a bit like, oh, yeah, how are you doing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll see you later.

Well, Pep was very friendly.

Zlatan was very standoffish.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

Doesn't sound like Zlatan, does it?

I suppose, Bob, you made an interesting point.

I can't remember when.

Perhaps it was on this podcast.

I make so many interesting points, Max.

It's hard for you to keep track of them.

You need to start writing them down, time-stamping them.

You dig the mine enough, you know, exactly.

Even a stopped clock and all that.

So was it on this pod when he was saying, or was it on the radio?

I forget that, you know, the last game of the season, actually, they could have had an unfair advantage.

The most recent and most egregious of those offences, which they were, I think, almost three minutes late, was either kicking off the start or the second half of their final game of the season against West Ham.

So, you know, that could have given them an advantage.

As it happened, they won the game easily.

But if Arsenal's game had finished earlier, Man City might have had an extra few minutes to, you know, do whatever they needed to do to make sure they won the title.

I mean, it's a bit, I'm sort of clutching at straws here.

I'm not saying it was a deliberate ruse, but it might have been.

We don't know.

It just depends on how many times Pep says the opposition are so good.

So, so, so.

West Ham are so, so, so.

I did notice

after they'd walloped Chelsea at the weekend, he was saying that Enzo Morisco is so, so, so, so good, so good, so good.

But when you're getting that sort of patronising post-match post or indeed pre-match chat from Pep, it's never a good sign.

That is a sign that Chelsea's season is over, isn't it?

On to some transferred tittle tattle um newcastle have approached palace over a deal for centre back mark gay i guess nos if you're a palace fan you are just desperate for the window to close on you know you've got a really exciting squad you've lost elise you're clinging hold of eze and gay and you're just thinking like and and um at matetta as well and you're like just just everybody go away it's i mean i mean it's it's such an exciting club for so many reasons as a neutral you you're so interested in how they'll do especially the way they get at the end of the season and and yeah it'll be such a pity pity.

It sort of points back to what

John was saying about sort of any team that sort of has the temerity

to sort of work above the station and do well.

They get all their players taken away.

So, yeah, it would be a pity.

I'm really looking forward to Crystal Palace.

Not least, because have you seen the new home kit?

Oh, no.

It's so natty.

Oh, that's great.

I think with football kits, we're going, thankfully, we're going away from just the templates and we're going more towards sort of gradients and designs.

And the Crystal Palace one is something else.

But yeah, I think

I'd love to see them keep the players and just see where they're going to go from there.

And speaking to some Palace fans that I know,

they're doing a lot of work within the community in terms of looking for talent in the local area, and they're really excited about where the club's going

in the long term.

So, that'll be exciting to see what other players can be stolen from them.

Yeah, well, don't forget Adam Wharton, of course, the button that was never pressed, John.

I mean,

and it's interesting.

Like, I don't think I've ever heard anyone before a season on this portal, probably in my life, who isn't a Palace fan, or even who is two weeks before the season, saying, I'm really excited to see Crystal Palace this season.

And like, Not said it, and I agree with him.

Yeah, I well,

I'm a bit of a

palette admirer just because even in the Roy days, there were those days,

and it's a sad, isn't it?

When I saw Olise go to Bayern, I was like, hmm, that's upsetting.

Those days when him and Eze struggle it together, and Matestra as well, just beautiful, beautiful.

And Wharton added that extra dimension.

We should mention, actually, Oliver Glasner.

There is a manager who, you know, look at what he did at Eintracht.

He is an excellent manager, and you would imagine that they're quite relaxed in the fact that they think they can get a lot out of this manager.

I think Palis could do,

doing the preseason predictions,

they'll get top 10 quite easily.

Right.

He's able to lock down the defence.

They get Munoz in, who's quite a good player.

But the loss of Gui.

You know, not you, Noz.

I know, I was thinking, what?

When did this happen?

Yeah, not you know Munoz, yes.

He's a very adept, you know, know, defender.

And it's Minas R, right, which is a really good, you know, attacking replacement.

Yeah, and listen, you know, Palace are expert at playing the market themselves,

and they know their own limitations.

They're always so good at picking up players.

And also, the thing that they do, which they did with Olise, is you can come to us, we can make you a star, we can get you to the next place, which is essentially what they've done with Gway.

Gway, of course, was a Chelsea player until quite recently.

Oh, dear.

Yeah.

And actually, interestingly, one of the few teams that still buy players in the EFL, you know, and you know, and invest quite a lot of money in EFL players because they can see the quality of them.

I'm going to stay with you, John, for the final question of part one, which is about West Ham.

It could be a huge year for the Get It Launched campaign as Nicholas Fulcrugh arrives from Borussia Dortmund.

Yeah, it's interesting, this one, isn't it?

I'm not sure that a get-it-launched in the Bundesliga merchant will do so well in the Premier League.

He's a good player, he's enjoyable to watch.

But think of other players.

Sebastian Elaire, who is

a slightly more sophisticated player.

Then you go to Big Val, Veghorst, who was a legend in the Bundesliga as a get-in-launch merchant.

It didn't go well for him at Man United, really, did it?

Despite that sort of cult status.

Fulk Rug.

I think he's 31, is he?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, listen, it's going to be fun.

Great to have that type of character around.

I'm going to say, if you're not supporting him, then

I fear for him.

I thought you'd be like the one man, you and me.

Well,

yeah.

Well, listen,

all credit to West Ham for actually, you know, embracing

these revolutionary soccer stylings.

It'd be interesting to see how West Ham fans react to that move.

You know, is that the Academy of Football style signing?

I don't know.

They have signed Crescentio Somerville from Leeds as well.

That looks like a yeah, a winger and a centre-forward crashing it in.

4-4-2.

What will this mean for Michael Antonio?

Well, they've been trying to replace him for years, Barry, and just never managed it because he just is still good.

I mean, speak to West Sam fans, they're always like, Yeah, he's really good for us, but we need a new player.

And then every season, poor old Mikel Antonio has to, you know, like about

38 games every minute.

I wonder what David Moyes is thinking.

He's like, hang on a second.

Hang on a second.

There's an absolute classic moisture.

Just to go full circle, I do think Fulkrug might be the most death metal sounding name in the A.

Absolutely right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Spot on.

Yeah, the latest song from Fulkrug.

Right, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll begin with the grim riots across the UK yesterday.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

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But there's something new and exciting.

The remarkable paper pro move.

Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist barry although not like you

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game.

That's all for now.

Coach, one more question: Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, and Los Angeles Rams Scratchers from the California Lottery.

A little play can make your day.

Please play responsibly, must be 18 years or older to purchase, play, play, or claim.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Lozzie says, given the violence from the far right across the country and the long history of racism displayed by some fans in England, surely now is the time for the Premier League in the FA to release a statement that racism any form we've met with severe punishment.

Would it work?

Would it make players and fans feel safer?

Socrates says, with the rise of the far right and accepted racism this weekend, will football be going back to the violent and dark days of hooliganism we saw in the 80s this season?

Will this lead to the end of the Premier League's best league in the world in the eyes of investors and owners?

I mean,

I wonder, Nas

like, it feels like we have, you know, we've seen some of those horrible people saw yesterday, you know, around football for years, but perhaps it's too big a step to start making some jump that hasn't happened yet.

You know, it's difficult because you because you don't want to downplay what happened.

But by the same token, what these people want is for people to be afraid and they want to seem important and as if there's some rise happening in the nation.

So

I don't think you can be afraid in terms of letting these people ruin your excitement about the new season or anything like that.

I mean, personally, from my point of view,

you can appreciate why people are afraid, and especially people, Muslim people and people of colour, because I remember growing up

and it was a constant, like it was a constant argument with my parents about letting me go to football because they were first-generation

Pakistani immigrants who'd come to this country and faced horrendous racism and

attacks

and they feared for their sort of safety.

And they were always scared about me going to the football because they saw it as a very sort of predominantly white sort of

environment where there'd be lots of white people and they were scared because of their own experiences.

And I had to constantly sort of like say, no, it's different.

It's safe.

It's not like it was.

And now.

Now you get to a situation where a lot of people are wondering,

like, have we gone backwards?

So, I mean,

that's how sort of my thinking is on the situation.

But football can be so symbolic.

So, you can, you can understand why any kind of statement

from any football club or the authorities would be of benefit.

I just,

I look at the weekend and I look at how football is used symbolically.

So, you had a situation like, for example, in Sunderland, where some of the rioters were wearing Sunderland shirts and doing horrendous things and destroying the city.

And then the next day, you had people cleaning up, and it's that thing of like, always look for the helpers.

And then you had people who, and they

spoke to the news, and they were interviewed.

And they said that they were purposely wearing Sunderland shirts to show that that isn't what the club is about, and that's not what the supporters was about.

And that just shows you how football can be used as a symbol,

but but also positively and uh and and yeah i think uh i think i think

it's important to be concerned it's important not to downplay things but uh it's important not to be afraid and let it ruin how you live and and it's and it and and and and all credit to you and all credit to

to the podcast is is we we discussed this we discussed whether we should go with with with with the riots first and then go on to football but then no because it's a football podcast and we're we're excited about football and football's like an exciting beautiful pastime and we'll cover it but it's not the

we shouldn't give them more importance than more importance than they're worth the riots in sunderland and elsewhere

there were undeniably football fans involved but they weren't not all the thuggery was committed by football fans but it is interesting that sunderland felt compelled the football club compelled to put out a statement on twitter they said you know tonight's shameful scenes do not represent our culture, our history, or our people.

Our great city is built on togetherness and acceptance.

And Sunderland will forever be for all.

We are stronger and one community now than always.

But like these rioters in Sunderland, they torched the local citizens' advice bureau, you know, which helps.

the poor, you know, provides advice and support to the destitute for free, people who have nowhere else to go, nowhere else to turn.

So, you know, slow hand clap to the guys for

firebombing that place.

Now, they have a new premises to work out of today in the city hall.

But I saw the woman who runs the Citizen Advice Bureau being interviewed, and she was just at a complete loss to what why have you done this?

Like, what possible?

It's like the library, it's the library in, yeah, it's like the library in Liverpool, or, you know, or someone ransacking Shoe Zone, right?

I mean, we're focusing on Sunderland.

There were, you know, stuff, similar scenes in lots of different places.

But it is interesting, I think, that the club felt the need to come out and make this statement, you know, because some of the rioters were wearing Sunderland shirts.

But

I think it's important what you say when you say the rioters in Sunderland, because there does seem to be an element that are touring the country.

And just because just because there's trouble happening in a city or in a town doesn't mean it's people from there.

People can,

I don't want to sort of defend anyone, but you have a situation where there's ringleaders and people just get involved.

People are sort of, it's like moths who are flying and

they get involved because something's happening.

So

there's that element.

But

I think

it all comes back to

this idea of

football.

Football is almost like it it it's unfair in a way because it's it it is it's expected to be better than society where it's it's just a reflection of society so it's unfair to to to sort of uh burden football with that responsibility however um

from my experience i've often found football fans are a are really really surprisingly good at at uh policing themselves so certainly at united anytime there's been any hint of any

any sort of trouble within within the fanship um

of of anyone from abroad or anyone of a particular minority being picked on, people will step in.

So that's a good thing.

And also, again, going back to what Barry said, is this idea that racism is in some way a working class pursuit

is so upside down.

It's not,

this comes from the top and

it's working class people who are used

to push an agenda or are manipulated to do these things.

But when you trace it back, it's people who live in posh houses, who are away from the trouble, who are stirring all this up.

So, so football fans are definitely not sort of the centre of this.

Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, listen, we're involved in football, involved in football clubs.

Very few entities in society do as much against racism

or community work as football clubs themselves.

Even the biggest, grandest, most, you know, biggest, dirtiest, elite club, we mentioned Chelsea before, they do an awful lot in the community.

And there's this idea that we had this during the pandemic where, you know, Tory MPs turned it back on.

Why aren't the footballers doing more to help people and all this thing?

Football's a lightning rod for people like this.

And football clubs, which are, you know, still, despite the fact that it costs an enormous amount of money to go, are endemic of the working class.

And they take the blame for this stuff.

And just because a load of people are wearing wearing football shirts while rioting will go to any pub, there'll be a bloke sat in a football shirt.

He might not even go to the game because he might not be able to afford to go to the game.

Football takes a lot of the blame for this type of thing.

It's so grim to see, and as I say, I've been away this weekend, you just watch, you know, with friends who are from another country, just like, yeah, that's where I'm from, where it's all going, it's on fire.

And

it's just stupidity.

The political class has an awful lot to answer for.

And I don't think football is the place to answer those questions.

You know, get out there, crack some heads.

Let's get the ringleaders up.

The ringleaders, some of whom are on holiday, by the way.

And

let's get this sorted.

But yeah, football has its part to play in the fact that it would be not a bad thing for the Premier League to come out and say, we condemn all this stuff.

Each football club to come out and say, you know, we don't want that.

But how can football be active?

Can that be truly active when there's actual the law that the central government has to take hold of things yeah i mean the the the original question was should we be concerned that football will go back to the dark days of the 80s and the answer is no because no

in the 80s there wasn't a huge amount of football on television uh and technology isn't as developed as it is now obviously so if you misbehave like that at a football ground you will get caught like there's no two ways about it you will get caught you will get banned, you will probably get sent to prison.

Um, so

it won't happen, but it might

happen around football, and I hope it doesn't.

Um, no, can I just ask, do you?

I mean, obviously, you say growing up and your parents suffered awful racism, I'm sure you have suffered it, and it hasn't gone away.

But do you feel after this weekend or more recently, like more nervous?

Not necessarily just at football, but just as a British Muslim in society or not?

I mean, yes,

I'd say I would, and but

I think

part of that is because of family and

being worried about them being worried about

my sisters and being worried about my nieces and nephews.

It's that kind of thing.

But I think in the 90s and growing up for me, you kind of felt as if it was a linear thing as in sort of over time things get better in terms of acceptance and tolerance.

It really felt as if racism

was sort of was getting better in terms of it.

that there was less of a that there was more um more of an understanding of like people with with different sexual orientations and and identities and everything and things seem to be going on on an upward trajectory but then if you take a step back what you what you realize and this this is this has always been the case is it's not it's not a linear thing it's cyclical and and so so so things seem to calm down things seem to improve and then all of a sudden it rises up again and there's so many socio-economic factors involved and and bad bad actors sort of causing the trouble.

I suppose the thing to always be aware of is: first of all, always check your facts.

I mean, it seems glib to sort of refer it back to football, but football fans are so sophisticated in the way they look at the media and the way they look at facts.

And you talk about transfer rumours, they will look at every angle of it, they will say, Oh, well, this isn't true because it's obviously the club briefing the information, or it's obviously like an agent trying to drum up interest in a player.

And you need to take that energy to any news that that you see and just interrogate it, think like why people are saying things and what their motives are.

And also, the other thing is that this veneer of civility is so fragile, and democracy is so fragile, and it only exists because we all adhere to it and we all believe in it.

As soon as someone breaks that, it's really important to call them out and not accept it, and be careful with your language, and

not

this idea of being fair and two-sided and everything.

No, sometimes there's not two sides.

Sometimes you have a situation where people rioting would not want me to be on this podcast because I am brown and because I am Muslim and there's no two sides to that.

So we must always protect this level of respect and civility we've got for each other because it is so fragile.

All right.

That'll do for part two.

We'll be back in a second.

Hi Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So the Scottish Premiership began this weekend.

Let's bring in Barcelona Jim, who watched most of it.

Hey, Jim.

How are we doing all right?

Yeah, very good.

I mean,

I really enjoyed the opening two games, you know, first Saturday, and there were no goals.

And I was like, ooh, maybe there'll be no goals the whole of the Scottish Premiership season.

I was saying this on the radio, and I was patronising you and

your countryman, Jim.

But it got going yesterday properly, didn't it?

Yeah, it did.

13 minutes, and I heard you pass because

you do ruffling of hair of Scottish football better than anyone else

in the media.

You really do.

But no,

yesterday was great.

In fact, even the Rangers game was

belting 0-0.

The mother game, I just saw the highlights, didn't look up too much.

But the the other three games yesterday were cracking, you know, absolutely cracking games.

And the reality about Scottish football, technically, we don't have the players for it to be, you know, a technical extravaganza.

But we've got a lot of teams in the same level and

they're exciting games.

They're good, enjoyable.

Because I think one of the things we forget is that football's meant to be bloody entertainment.

Don't get Wilson on this.

You know, and we had entertainment.

Don't be ridiculous.

but it was

but we had we had great entertainment and even the entertainment started before a ball was kicked when michael stewart called todd cantwell a prick on the radio

well didn't he didn't he didn't to be fair didn't he say if he's a prick yeah he didn't he didn't say he is a prick he said if he's a prick and it was like this is this is it this is good bbc language for me but yes that's a great thing but

there's a lot of entertainment to be had, and there's some good football as well.

Don't ever doubt that either.

Celtic are hot favourites because there's been a bit of upheaval at Rangers this summer.

They won 4-0 against Kilmarnock.

Are you just sort of taking the title as red and then you're just hoping for something better in the Champions League?

What's the sort of Celtic hopes and dreams?

It's a very strange thing that

Rangers are going to be our main

competition.

They've got a lot going on.

They've got an issue with the stadium, which I think is going to be a a bigger issue than people realize.

That I don't think they're scheduled not to play a home game until late September, possibly early October.

And that could be a factor because, you know, especially in Europe, Ibrooks is a big factor in,

as is Parkhead at times, in

kind of getting the team a level of a performance.

And Celtic had to play it hand in for a season, and that was one of the worst seasons ever because it's just not your stadium, and it's not your pub.

You know, the great things about going to football are the football routine, and you don't get to do your routine, and it just

changes the vibe completely.

So, yeah, but the big thing with Celtic is that this is a very strange season, and that

we're all hoping that the board don't look at it and go, as long as we stay just a bit better than Rangers, that will be enough.

Because you're right, we want to try and Champions League, we're never going to do anything in the Champions League, but get in there, get the money, finish third, and then have a bit of a punt in the Europa.

That's what I, that would be my perfect season.

As a Celtic fan, like, ye have loads of money.

You have to spend a lot of it to not embarrass yourselves in the Champions League.

Would that not, is that fair to say?

But there seems to be every chance the board won't spend any money because they'll be happy enough to win the league comfortably, which it should do as they are.

But then Brendan Rogers will get very chippy because he's not been given the funds to have a decent go at not embarrassing yourselves in the Champions League.

Absolutely spot on, Barry.

And I think when I said it was a vital season, because

I am of what we call the Celic Da

demographic, you know, you weren't there when it was really bad, and all that kind of stuff.

But even in my demographic, we're now starting to see, look,

we won't be putting money into this club the way we're doing just now if the height of your ambitions is just to be a wee bit better than rangers you know you're asking me like uh my nephew he got his renewals through for his season books and then he's going to be the guts of uh two two grand renewing them for him and his boy and his his daughter you know and he's getting to the point going I could be doing quite a lot of things with that two grand.

So it's not cheap to watch a game at Celtic, you know.

And I think this might be the last season.

And bearing in mind that Brendan has made it quite clear that he's looking to be backed.

That I think if they don't do it this season, I think there could be a lot of unrest

come season ticket renewal time next year.

I mean, in his

Scottish Premiership preview, you and Murray said, you know, basically, if Celtic don't buy five or six players in the seven to twelve million pound bracket,

there will be a lot of unrest at Celtic Park.

I think the number that you said there is too high.

I think if we're, you know, we'll bring back Ida, he'll probably cost us five, six.

We're looking for somebody at left back, centre.

I think three

players

of between five and ten million.

But

again, I don't want to sound an apologist for the board, but one of the things things that people forget is that if you buy somebody at £8 million,

he expects £8 million

player wages, which thanks to the English Premiership and even higher levels of the championship, that's £40,500 a week,

which equates to £2.5 million a year for every year of his contract.

You know, I'm getting a bit Kieran Maguire now, but.

Hey, don't mate.

You know, there are levels, Barcelona.

This is good.

This is some good calculator maths, but you know, don't put yourself on that pedestal yet, but carry on.

No, no, but that's the thing, you know, that

the cost of a transfer is more than just their transfer fee.

You know, so even if we've got 50 million in the bank, you know, that isn't five players at 10 million because we've then got to be able to pay them two and a half, five million a year, you know.

So at least two or three.

Well,

won't the sale of Matt O'Reilly to Chelsea free up lots of money to pay all these new players?

Yes, well, exactly.

But that's our model.

And that's the model that most Scottish clubs are going to look to do: get somebody in, find out that

they're a lot better.

And Celtic's track record of players going from them to the Premiership and not disgracing themselves is quite good, which gives you an idea that maybe Scottish football isn't, you know, John McGinn's done really well.

He came from Hibbs and he wasn't, you know, a superstar at Hibbs as such.

Andy Robertson, Virgil,

Kieran Tierney.

There was Van Yama at Spurs, Southampton, as well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and Fraser Foster.

I mean, we took him, he was a Newcastle Reserve goalie, and he went down and ended up in the England squad.

So, yeah, I mean, you know, we've got players that and Calvin Bassie left Rangers, and he's doing, it took a wee bit of time to settle at Fulham, but he's looking the part there, so yeah, so they can pick up that an English.

Well, I think we should be looking for 20.

Well, if Chelsea is coming in, we should be looking for 50 million off the MB.

250 million.

Why not?

It's good to see that Wraith Rovers sacked their manager Ian Murray after the first game of the season.

Just a 1-0 defeat to Adrionians.

Presumably there's a little bit more to it than that, but that seems a bit harsh, doesn't it?

Jim, can we talk about you without getting too self-indulgent, but very self-indulgent, and your health?

Because you tweeted like a long thread about the fact you've been undergoing treatment for cancer.

And obviously, all our wishes are with you.

But it was quite an important thing for men to talk about, right?

How are you, first of all?

Yeah, I'm fine.

At the moment, you can see well,

you can see the scar.

It doesn't look like you're in the, you look like you're in the firm in, you know, like in Green Street or something.

Well, let's be honest, it's a Monday morning.

I'm a close weekend quite right now.

I'm full of opiates and I've got a big scar.

So I'm absolutely, I'm absolutely conforming to all the stereotypes here, you know.

No, I went, I saw a little issue on one of my tonsils.

And

I joke about it, my set, is that when you're 20, you think that nothing can kill you.

But when you get to 60, you realise that everything can kill you, right?

So it just didn't feel right.

Went straight to my doctors, went through all the treatment, got the biopsy.

Yes, it's cancer.

into hospital and it was a five-hour operation to take the tonsil and quite a bit of my palate out as well.

And obviously, for the scari sea, that they just kind of cut you there and take out some lymph nodes or take out all the lymph nodes.

All I'm waiting on now is the results of the results of the biopsy of

the other tissue that's left to see what, if any, because there's a possibility I might not need any other treatment.

But the doc did say it's because I was proactive, it's because I went at the first sign of an issue.

And that's the message, although you were slagging me on Twitter privately,

Max.

That was the message I wanted in Twitter: was that, you know, stuff can be serious and you're better going to doctors.

And the number of people who worked in the

healthcare industry that replied to it and said, look,

I do this job, I do that job, you're not wasting anybody's time.

That was the predominant message.

Did the doctor say if you'd left this for a month or two months or whatever, it would have been much, much more serious?

Not in as many words, but he did say we had quite a positive conversation.

He asked me what I'd done and how I'd got to where I was and he said

he told me he had a look and he said well it does look as if we can we can do this and he was very positive and he just said he said and I'm glad you came so early because

People that don't come early, I don't normally have these sort of positive conversations with them.

I'm talking about far more aggressive treatment and I'm talking about potentially maybe not the best outcome as well.

I mean, John Hartson always tells the story that when he felt a lump on his bollock,

he just ignored it just because he was afraid

and he was too scared to go to the doctor.

And when he eventually did, when he couldn't ignore the problem any longer, it had spread and he was basically incredibly lucky

live through it.

He got away with it, but

he tells the same story.

If you think something's wrong,

get it seen.

The doctor is in the dressing room every day.

He didn't have to go to the doctor.

The doctor was standing six feet away from him, but he didn't do it.

And it nearly cost him his life.

All I would say is, again, I'll just repeat the message again.

If there's something that doesn't look right, feel right, just get on the phone to your doctor, go along, and what's the worst that can happen.

Yeah, and like, how psychologically, how are you?

Because, like, getting dealt that news, hearing that word, I don't know, but I imagine it's fucking terrifying.

Yes, it's absolutely terrifying.

And

to be fair, the doctor about my throat, um,

about my throat,

he did get me in a nice place about that.

The other issue came where they scanned you all over and they'd found something on the lung, right?

And I had to have a bronchoscopy and I had to have a biopsy on that.

Now,

the truth of that one is that's the one that absolutely terrified me because throat cancer, Danny Baker's had it and he's out and about.

Various comedians have had it.

We all know somebody who had throat cancer and is now okay.

Not too many of us have the conversation where, oh, he had lung cancer and he's now okay.

Thankfully, it's just a thing called

sarcoidosis.

It's more or less asymptomatic.

They'll keep an eye on it.

So, in truth, that was the one that petrified me because if they'd found cancer in that one, then,

you know, the idea of a very bad outcome was a very real one, you know.

And

that was scary.

But thankfully, I've come out the other side of that as well.

And we are...

we're tickety-boo and and have kept a positive attitude because you know out of all of this all all I really want is 20 minutes of solid stand-up material.

The listeners will be delighted that you can come on after Scotland Games saying, well, I was on stage, so I didn't see the game.

I kind of think this is what happens.

We normally get positive reviews for that.

Jim is in a WhatsApp group with quite a few London friends of mine and, well, elsewhere scattered around the world.

And I have to say, the outpouring of sympathy for him was

made me re-evaluate the kind of person I am and the kind of company I keep, let's just say.

I mean, it is worth saying, Jim, you came on the radio and there will almost certainly be one person, right, listening to this who has some issue and they won't go.

And you came on the radio and I think somebody got in touch that day and said, oh, look,

actually, I've got a bit of a problem and listening to this has sort of made me do it, which is, you know, me accusing you of just trying to milk it to get more followers.

Actually, there is a benefit and a decent stand-up set.

You know, there there is the positive that you can impact people's lives right which is why you took to social media exactly that was exactly it the numbers thing obviously you know yeah

i'm only flesh and blood no no i know um anyway look thanks jim i appreciate that um and that'll do for today for everyone so uh thanks for your time jim appreciate it glad you're glad you're ticking eboo yes i am indeed cheers barry thanks thanks john black metal yeah thank you no

thanks bubble weekly is produced by joel grove our executive producer is Danielle Stevens, back with a EuroPod tomorrow.

This is The Guardian.