The Premier League’s race for Europe and Celtic’s title – Football Weekly Extra podcast

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Speaker 5 Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. The race for sixth or even fifth is still alive.

Speaker 5 Manchester United's win over Newcastle means that Eddie Howe's men need United to win the FA Cup, have any chance of the Europa League, while Chelsea's win at Brighton means they could still catch Spurs.

Speaker 5 Does that mean we have to re-record a season's worth of pods for our reviews of Maurizio Pochitino's season?

Speaker 5 At Old Trafford, Amma Diallo hit a ball so perfectly it was worthy of winning this game for sure, and perhaps some better ones. While at the Amex, Cole Palmer, again the difference.

Speaker 5 Anon Cuckoo, Gallagher, even Coca-Cola performing. Could they be a force next year? We'll talk Wolves War on VAR and Celtic winning the Scottish Premiership.

Speaker 5 And Tarek Panja joins us from the FIFA Conference in Bangkok, where Gianni will no doubt save football once again.

Speaker 5 All that, plus some Alessi Twins, corrections, your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 5 On the panel today, Nada Manuha, welcome.

Speaker 12 Morning, sir. Hello, John Bruin.

Speaker 13 Morning, Max.

Speaker 5 And good morning, Barry Glendenning.

Speaker 1 Hey, Max.

Speaker 5 So these games last night then, Man United, Newcastle and Brighton, Chelsea, were important for European qualification.

Speaker 5 If Manchester City win the FA Cup, then fifth and sixth get Europa, seventh Conference League. If Manchester United win the FA Cup, then fifth gets Europa and and sixth gets the Conference League.

Speaker 5 Let's start at Old Trafford. Manchester United, three, Newcastle two.
Casemiro's sixth game in a row at centre-back. We all waited for another disaster, but he actually played quite well.

Speaker 5 And actually, Manchester United, John, started this game really well.

Speaker 5 Where did that come from?

Speaker 13 You might say it was a definition of madness to play Casemiro in that position so many times over.

Speaker 13 Yeah, it did work, didn't it? He appears to have become the master of the last-ditch tackle,

Speaker 13 one of which was obviously should have been a penalty, though it wasn't his foul that was the offending item. But there was a couple of clearances off the line.

Speaker 13 I think one of the things with playing Casimiro there is obviously Ten Hag has the faith in that Casimiro is a pure footballer, isn't he?

Speaker 13 He's a really good footballer and he and he has a sense of where the ball is going to land.

Speaker 13 But in previous occasions, particularly the previous game against Arsenal, where he forgot what the off-side law was,

Speaker 13 he was lax. Obviously, there's been some sort of coaching session that's taught him maybe you need to step up and gen up on that rule a little bit more and push up with Johnny Evans.

Speaker 13 Johnny Evans, by the way, is four years older than Casemiro.

Speaker 13 So,

Speaker 13 which, you know, we've all talked about, you know, Casemiro being the old man in defence, but the guy next to him is just, you know, is older, more experienced.

Speaker 13 And at times, you could see that Evans is trying to guide him through that. It's an emergency situation, and it paid off last night.

Speaker 13 Manchester United, as ever, were wobbly, but what they did show was

Speaker 13 quite a lot of bite in midfield, perhaps a little bit too much bite from Amrabat.

Speaker 13 I'm not convinced. His is a loan deal, isn't it?

Speaker 13 I'm not convinced that's going to be extended.

Speaker 13 I'm not sure he's quite of the level, but he worked very hard.

Speaker 13 And then you've got Scott McTominay, who played this sort of almost

Speaker 13 withdrawn centre-forward role, but which is also leading the press.

Speaker 13 It was a decent performance for Man United. It was coherent.
We've not seen that too often.

Speaker 13 I think Newcastle can be disappointed in their performance, in the fact that they did have moments in the game where they were on top, but didn't make them count enough.

Speaker 13 They obviously, yeah, the foul on Amrabat to Anthony Gordon, yes, it was a penalty. They should have received that.
But a good win for Manchester United, good heartening win.

Speaker 13 And if I may add one point, Eric Ten Haag, as a public speaker,

Speaker 13 very impressed. I don't know if you saw his post-match speech.
It made me think that I could imagine him

Speaker 13 in the small Dutch town he's from, dressed in some sort of ceremonial garments. Yeah.
And him being, you know,

Speaker 13 hear ye, hear ye, that type of guy.

Speaker 13 If all else fails, Eric, the town crier, town crier.

Speaker 5 Town crier. crier.
The Dutch Town Crier. I was just checking, Nadim, if Johnny Evans was older than you, but he isn't.

Speaker 12 All right, all right, calm down, calm down.

Speaker 1 Don't have to be like that.

Speaker 5 But, you know, Casemaro is not the story of this game, but I'm just interesting to get your insight on that.

Speaker 5 Like, have you been watching him play there thinking, hey, look, it's not as easy as everyone thought it was? Or what have you made of that?

Speaker 12 I think it's mixed, to be honest, because there have been times through the last, say, 10, 15 years or whatever, where midfielders have gone back there and looked very comfortable.

Speaker 12 Not least of all when I'm thinking of Masherano just dropping back in there and just being really successful, making it look really easy.

Speaker 12 And we have seen other people do it, not necessarily for extended spells as such, but I think as well, a lot of it depends on how your team plays.

Speaker 12 We have seen Casemiro make mistakes, obviously, but from when, if you play for a team that has good control of games, good possession, and so on, you don't really get exposed in the same way that maybe Casemiro has to a certain extent.

Speaker 12 And yes, some of that has been his own doing, like in the weekend against Arsenal, like to a certain extent against Palace, I think a week ago.

Speaker 12 You know, as a defender, you to do it properly you've got to have certain attributes whether it's physical mental and so on but some people can dip back there every so often and say oh look it's easy you know what i mean this is all you need to do but then in the same breath like defenders can score goals so imagine if a defender went up scored and said to a four look this is how easy it is just do this just do this every time i can't see him staying there much longer obviously with martinez being back and i like but then it you know the as john was saying like united i thought it looked good in midfield yesterday and i also thought the return of fernandez because he doesn't miss games, it's tough to really grade his value until he's not there anymore.

Speaker 12 And then when you look at him not being there, you see how important he is to that team because of the way that he can link the play, some of his energy getting around the field, and his organizational skills as well.

Speaker 12 So, yeah, Casemiro, he's not a centre-back, is he?

Speaker 12 But, you know, when you're next to Timeless Wonder that is Johnny Evans, then, yeah, I suppose you can find a way to be effective whenever you need to be.

Speaker 5 Yeah, by all accounts, Fernandez is

Speaker 5 the latest rumor is that he's staying. I mean, the moment of this game, Barry, was Amadiallo's strike, which the guardian Minute by Minute described as a rip snorter.

Speaker 5 Obviously, you would have seen him doing this week in week out for Sunderland a couple of years ago, but it's some goal.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was hugely impressive at Sunderland. I'm not sure why he didn't get more game time this season.
He may have been injured.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure, but

Speaker 1 obviously, playing for Sunderland, playing for Manchester United, is different levels.

Speaker 1 But yeah, it was a brilliant strike. One of those balls that stays hit.
Just what you were saying about Fernandez there.

Speaker 1 He did give a slightly odd interview after the game in which he seemed to suggest he thought Manchester United might not want to keep him. And it was like, well, if they want me, then

Speaker 1 okay. But if they don't, I'll leave.
That was the general vibe.

Speaker 1 I mean, I can't imagine them not wanting to keep him because, as Nadum was said,

Speaker 1 we saw how bereft they are when he's not there. And I do wonder when Wayne Rooney suggested that some Manchester United players were,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 feigning injury because they didn't want to be associated with a losing team. I did see some people were pointing fingers in the direction of Bruno, but I reckon that wouldn't be his style.

Speaker 1 I think he would want to play every minute of every game.

Speaker 1 But, yeah, I'd be astonished if

Speaker 1 Manchester United don't want to keep him. And, yeah,

Speaker 1 Ahmed hasn't got many opportunities this season for whatever reason, but I do think he's a fine player.

Speaker 13 There has been this word out there that

Speaker 13 during Sir Dave Brailsford's detailing of

Speaker 12 the club,

Speaker 13 there is this idea that United are prepared to sell just about everyone apart from a couple.

Speaker 13 One of them is Rasmus Hoyland, presumably because they think he's talented and they paid a lot of money for him. The one's Copy Mainu.

Speaker 13 I would have thought Diallo is going to rejoin that list. He's going to join that list at least.

Speaker 13 But Fernandez pushing on a bit could probably get a fee for him, that type of thing is the logic. And I think that's possibly what Bruno's talking about.

Speaker 13 Possibly the word's gone out there in the world of agents

Speaker 13 that players are for sale.

Speaker 13 But I would agree with Barry and Adam.

Speaker 13 Fernandez isn't the problem at manchester united there are times when uh you can see why he annoys people because there's a certain petulance to his play and you can see that um he sometimes isn't afraid of telling other players where they're going wrong but when he works hard like he did last night and and plays like he did last night then he's not the problem there are there are other problem players that you would get shot of first but i suppose he's worth a bit of money and that's that's the aspect of it that that comes into it but what about marcus rashford nadam like he made his 400th appearance for Manchester United.

Speaker 5 I mean, that is an extraordinary achievement for any footballer. And yet, you know, there was footage before the game of some idiot in the crowd having a go at him and him sort of answering them back.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 it just seems too easy to say, would a move be beneficial for everybody?

Speaker 5 But would a move be beneficial for everybody?

Speaker 12 I'm going to say no. I think the point that John was making about, say, Fernandez being worth something, I think right now Rashford is as well.

Speaker 12 So maybe from a business standpoint, you could make that case. But ultimately, like, that's the club that he's been at.

Speaker 12 And if we go back literally just a year, he's coming off one of the best seasons that he's probably had. In fact, it was the best season he'd had to this point.

Speaker 12 And 400 games for a club side, 400 games for Manchester United, that's a huge amount, especially for somebody that's still in their 20s.

Speaker 12 So he's clearly not at the final stage, you know, of what he's going to be looking like as a player.

Speaker 12 And it's just a case from, I think, from United deciding whether this is a down year for him or whether this is who he is.

Speaker 12 And given the fact he's been there for so long, I think they should be able to sense that and understand what the future should look like.

Speaker 1 If they believe that this is who he is,

Speaker 12 maybe it's simple and you say you should sell him, but I don't think he'll be wanting to go anywhere because, you know, home comforts are definitely a real thing.

Speaker 12 And then if he's playing well, you get to see the benefits like you saw a year ago. So I think

Speaker 12 he should be kept.

Speaker 12 And I don't think realistically he'll be that keen to go because, you know, this is a Manchester United boy playing for Man United, knowing that he can do better, knowing that with the new ownership as such,

Speaker 12 to quote something that's happened in my career,

Speaker 12 when Stephen Gerard went to Rangers, he was recruiting people based on the idea that you could be the first person or the first team to win something back again after everything they've been through.

Speaker 12 And that's for a club like Rangers. And that's exciting to be the first to do it.
And you saw the celebrations when they did do it.

Speaker 12 And I think for this, like, um, Enios-led football club going forward, imagine the time when they win or if they win their first Premier League title in however many years, you could be a true, true hero to one of the biggest fan bases in world football.

Speaker 12 So I think if Rashford decides that it's best to go now,

Speaker 12 then I think if he leaves and he gets to see that happen, I think it'll be, in my mind, a regret for him.

Speaker 5 Did Stephen JR try and get you? Did he get you? And I just

Speaker 12 got to,

Speaker 12 but I said I'd rather go to Utah instead. So make it that whatever you want.

Speaker 5 What about Newcastle, Barry? Like, it looks like they'll get Conference League.

Speaker 5 So from Champions League last year to Conference League this year, of course, their injury that they have been beset with injuries. They're not the only club,

Speaker 5 but they really have been hit hard.

Speaker 5 Where does that sort of leave Eddie? How? Where do you think the owners, especially, will feel about this season?

Speaker 1 I've no idea what the owners will feel about this season.

Speaker 1 It's been up and down for Newcastle. You mentioned the injuries, and they're around the turn of the year,

Speaker 1 they were really running on fumes. They could just about feel the team.

Speaker 1 So, for them, I think, to be in with a shout of Europe, it's not guaranteed, is it?

Speaker 5 It's they could still not guarantee, no.

Speaker 5 But they sh chances are they'll get in the conference if City beat United in the FA Cup final.

Speaker 1 Well, if they get in the Conference League, that's a tournament they really should be going all out to win. That's a start, and maybe it's the best place for them.
I mean,

Speaker 1 if Champions League is off the table, Newcastle that is a tournament, if they are in it, they should win. But Newcastle find themselves,

Speaker 1 so they've got to deal with profit and sustainability rules.

Speaker 1 They've got some really, really good players, and they've got some players who are bang average or past their prime or, you know, going to be shown the door.

Speaker 1 So, Eddie Howe is going to have to do a lot of

Speaker 1 buying and selling during the summer,

Speaker 1 players will have to be moved on. Will he be able to keep hold of Alexander Isaac?

Speaker 1 I don't know. He wants to, obviously, but

Speaker 1 Isaac's been moved with a or linked with a move to Arsenal and elsewhere. And

Speaker 1 he would get a lot of money in a transfer fee. Same with Bruno.
Do they want to stay? We don't know.

Speaker 1 Sandro Tranale presumably will be back next season.

Speaker 1 I mean, what a disaster that's been.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. I think 55 million they paid AC Milan.
You know, we remember he arrived

Speaker 1 and didn't look that keen as he was getting off the plane. Really flattered to deceive in his first few games.
Then his form dropped off.

Speaker 1 And I think the reason his form dropped off is because he knew he was about to get a big ban and he did seven months out.

Speaker 1 So like an absolute disastrous signing so you'd imagine he he owes the club newcastle could go either way for them next season i think but if they do end up in the conference league that is a tournament newcastle have not won a trophy for a very long time so that is one they should be targeting obviously wilson would uh he would take sunderland's relegation for them not to win the conference league or we didn't quite go that far last week did we uh yesterday rather uh michael says should cole palmer wear warmer clothes given how cold he always seems when he scores um he scored a header and a brilliant header.

Speaker 5 I mean is there anything he can't do, John? How close are we to being he has to start for England or let's build a team around him levels of clamour?

Speaker 13 He's my player of the year if this if that matters to anybody but

Speaker 13 I do think it's a he's a throwback. Now actually can we say Chelsea is struggling, a struggling team? Not really, not now.

Speaker 13 Well, mostly because of Cole Palmer, that's the point, I suppose, but because he has been

Speaker 13 so far ahead of the rest of that team. And so far ahead of much of the rest of the Premier League in terms of his performances.
Only Erling Haaland scored more goals.

Speaker 13 As you say, I didn't know that he was able to head the ball like Alan Shearer, but it turns out he is.

Speaker 13 And there's someone who a year ago, Manchester City played the final game of the season.

Speaker 13 Pep arrested a lot of players, played Cole Palmer, and I didn't really see Cole Palmer get a kick at Bramford at all a year on he's one of the best players in the Premier League so full credit to him for taking that opportunity full credit for Chelsea for

Speaker 13 working out that City were willing to let that player go I mean to be fair Chelsea did buy everybody so it might just be completely random but they got a good player I was talking to someone the other day and

Speaker 13 it was something to do with an agent got wind of this and one of the one of the sporting directors at Chelsea, people who don't get much credit, by the way, and for good reason, considering some of the players, got wind of the fact that Cole Palmer wanted to go.

Speaker 13 The move was made, and Cole Palmer ends up at Chelsea, was happy to go there, had said to Pep Guardiola he wanted to play more football. And do you know what?

Speaker 13 He's thrown it back in Guardiola's face by being so good. And there are times when you look at Manchester City, the best team in football, and think actually Cole Palmer could do a job there.

Speaker 13 You know, like with Jack Grealish being injured and, say, Doku injury, you think Paul Palmer could come and play there and do do okay.

Speaker 13 Though would he be able to play with the free-spiritedness that he has at Chelsea that Poch has given him that responsibility.

Speaker 13 But I think in him, and I should mention another player as well, Malagosto, he's been a good signing. Now, so this Chelsea thing,

Speaker 13 maybe,

Speaker 13 maybe they did sort of know what they were doing. It's just that if you throw so many darts at it, that and the other thing is Casado is now playing well.

Speaker 13 Now, I was talking to Chelsea fans last night. They were saying the reason for that is that he's no no longer playing with Enzo Fernandez.
So that's a problem.

Speaker 13 But again, that's the problem. If you buy so many players at one time, they aren't all going to fit together.
But to the original point, Cole Palmer, brilliant. Can't praise him enough.

Speaker 5 From what you know, Nadum, are there any regrets at City for letting Palmer go?

Speaker 12 Are you talking more so from within the club or like a fan base?

Speaker 5 What would you say? Oh, I'd like to know what, you know, if you know that Pep is really angry, I'd love that.

Speaker 12 I don't think they're angry because I think across the last few years, if you've seen seen players that have wanted to leave, they've tended to leave, whether you're looking like a Jesus as Inchenko types, you know, and others that have less, where maybe Ferrantor is like two, three years ago as well, going to Barcelona.

Speaker 12 So I don't think they hold people hostage like that as such. I think the regret could have been maybe based around the potential because they would know how good he is.

Speaker 12 But then, you know, you now flip it over.

Speaker 12 And say at this point in the season now, as was the case a year ago, the person that plays on that high right side, for four City is Bernardo Silva.

Speaker 12 And he's one of their best players in that whole team, one of the most pivotal in that whole team. We say, well, maybe he could play centrally.
All right.

Speaker 12 Well, at the moment, you've got Phil Folden and Kevin De Bruyne. So for as good as Cole is, and he could fit in with those people, I think in some ways he'd need to have like true opportunity.

Speaker 12 And overall, the plays are robust enough to where he probably wasn't going to be given that.

Speaker 12 I think given it's been such a good year for him because we're talking about the goals he scored for Chelsea, but he's also scored for City in the Super Cup final, scored for City in the

Speaker 12 Community Shield as well. So he was on to something and it's a great signing for Chelsea.
And obviously City will be disappointed that he's not doing that for them.

Speaker 12 But you know, you can only pick 11 players and they're disappointed players every week, like even now at City, John Stone, Jack Grealish, these Doku, these guys aren't starters, but they're good enough to be starters.

Speaker 12 But fair play to him, I'll hold my hands up.

Speaker 12 I suggested the idea of giving him, of like him being my player of the season a month ago.

Speaker 5 And people are like, oh, but Chelsea's a really struggling

Speaker 12 all right okay but he scored 20 goals in the premier league like surely that counts for something because the when we asked the audience this like think of some of the best attacking midfielders that you can think of are some of your favorites have they ever had a season where they've scored over 20 goals in the premier league and the answer will be no so you can say oh but the penalties but the penalties okay and how about everything else as well he's he's been amazing far better than say i'd probably say 99 of people would have thought and the ones that sit in that one percent

Speaker 12 they're probably a bit deluded, and they've probably got some bad takes out there as well. So it's very, very impressive.
It's very, very impressive for me.

Speaker 5 What audience was that? Is that just in your house? Do you just have an audience with Nathaniel?

Speaker 1 No, this is the Guardian Football Weekly audience listening to this podcast right now.

Speaker 12 Think of your favourites. Because even myself, I remember Yayatore scoring 20 goals in the Premier League.
Did he? Cole Palmer sitting on 22?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he did. Literally.
I remember that.

Speaker 1 That's what I mean. That's ridiculous.

Speaker 5 That's ridiculous. I know.

Speaker 5 Rhys James was sent off, petulant, quite funny. As producer Joel says, in his defence, the rules may have changed substantially since he was last regularly playing in the 80s or something.

Speaker 12 Under the bus, he gold, Joel, under the bus.

Speaker 5 Keeps him fresh for the Euros, doesn't he?

Speaker 1 Do you think you've got the Euros? They're quite good at right backs.

Speaker 5 Yeah, but are they.

Speaker 5 We don't have eight at the moment, do we? There was a time when you could build an entire team of.

Speaker 13 He could do eight right backs, you're right, yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah, you know, but sort of Max Aaron's has slipped down.

Speaker 1 Look,

Speaker 5 he can also play as a sort of centre-halfie thing if gareth wants to play three at the back as well can't he you know you know like the sort of the car walker thing yeah but i suppose if you if you're going to play the car walker thing you might as well play you might play car walker walker yeah that's true uh what have you made of brighton baz um nigel says why has deserve got a free pass this season brighton been quite rubbish for a long time now uh yeah he's mentioned with all the big jobs he's alan kirbishley with a goatee says nigel

Speaker 1 what have i made of brighton that's a good question

Speaker 1 they've been very up and down this season, haven't they?

Speaker 1 And probably more down than up. But I think,

Speaker 1 like Newcastle, they have had terrible, terrible injury problems, which probably haven't been mentioned as often as Newcastle's have.

Speaker 1 Deserve

Speaker 1 is an interesting character. I think he's a very good manager.
And when he arrived, quite a lot of proper football men were like, oh, who's this guy?

Speaker 1 Pointing out that he'd failed in various places when, in fact, he hadn't. He just moved on for whatever reason, whether it was, you know,

Speaker 1 being poached by a bigger club or because war broke out in the country he was working in or whatnot.

Speaker 1 We were all hugely impressed with them

Speaker 1 last season. And then this season,

Speaker 1 they're playing in Europe for the very first time. I'm sure Brighton fans who travel to various places to watch them had a great time.
That's obviously going to take its toll on league form

Speaker 1 because it always does or invariably does for teams who don't play in Europe every season.

Speaker 1 And I think

Speaker 1 he has a petulance and narciness about him that doesn't do him any favours. He's always complaining about referees.
He gets very animated on the touchline.

Speaker 1 I read somewhere yesterday, Paul Barber, the Brighton chairman, said, you know, if the coffee machine isn't working, it'll end up out the window and on the lawn.

Speaker 1 He's got a very fiery, Italian temper, I suppose. And I think that doesn't do him any favours, but that's who he is.
So, you know,

Speaker 1 if you want to take him, that's the package. That's what you're getting.

Speaker 1 But I think he might have talked himself out of a couple of big jobs in recent months. And obviously, Brighton's poor results won't have helped him either.

Speaker 1 And I was worried at one stage he might talk himself out of his own job

Speaker 1 because he was sort of looked as if he didn't want to be at Brighton. So I've no idea if he'll still be there at the start of the next season or not.
He might be fired or he might go somewhere else.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I just don't know.

Speaker 5 We'll see. All right, that'll do for part one.
Part two, we'll begin by congratulating Celtic for winning the Scottish Premiership.

Speaker 2 Coach, the energy out there felt different.

Speaker 3 What changed for the team today?

Speaker 4 It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Speaker 5 Play is everything.

Speaker 6 Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Speaker 7 Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Speaker 4 Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game. That's all for now.

Speaker 1 Coach, one more question.

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Speaker 5 Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. Congratulations, Celtic, for winning the Scottish Premiership.
Yeah, they beat Kilmark 5-0. They are the champions.

Speaker 5 Jim says, can we have a voice note from the other Jim, Barca Jim? Okay, then, here it is.

Speaker 15 Good day, everyone. A report from

Speaker 15 Fitback Corner about the termination or the end of the Scottish football season last night when Celtic won the league at Rugby Park.

Speaker 15 I know that people really won't need this because of your stunning in-depth analysis that you do on Scottish football every week. But I thought it'd be nice just to

Speaker 15 sum up the season. It's actually been a proper title race in Scotland this year.
Rangers started badly, sacked Beale and they brought in Philippe Clement, and he did an excellent job.

Speaker 15 He really steadied the ship. He won a trophy.
And then come December, Celtic lose two games in the trot.

Speaker 15 We even booed Santa at Celtic Park. Such was the feeling in the camp at the time.
So really looked that in February, it certainly looked as if it was Rangers title to lose.

Speaker 15 Much like is happening in England just now with Man City, that muscle memory kicks in. And you know, Brendan Rogers has been over this course before, so yeah, it's been great.

Speaker 15 You know, Brendan coming back, as you know, Max, I still hold you personally responsible for the appointment of Ange. I still love him.

Speaker 15 You know, Brendan, he's like a stepdad, you know, he's not my real dad. But we got there in the end, convincingly, at Rugby Park last night, and now onward to the cup final.

Speaker 15 So that's the Scottish season in a nutshell. And for me, as a Celtic fan, it's been okay.

Speaker 15 Toodle Pit.

Speaker 5 Thank you, Jim. Two minutes of Barcelona, and yes, apologies.
As he referenced,

Speaker 5 we have not given Scotland as much attention as perhaps we should this season. There's a lot of football, we can't do everything.

Speaker 1 I'd quite like to steer everyone to

Speaker 1 Ewan Murray's jazz bar on the Guardian website. He's written a sort of a piece about

Speaker 1 the Scottish season, which I would say will antagonise pretty much everyone

Speaker 1 who supports any Scottish club who reads it. I thought it was quite balanced and fair, but

Speaker 1 he did refer to Rangers having quite a few serial bottlers in their squad. Yeah, he was quite uncomplimentary.
about Brendan Rodgers as well.

Speaker 1 Brendan Rodgers has been very spiky this season in his dealings with the media. And

Speaker 1 Rangers now, so they're meeting in the cup final and Rangers really need to win that. Really need to win that.

Speaker 5 To the title race in the Premier League, then ask Leverton Man City West Ham on Sunday. Nadim, it's come up on quite a few podcasts that we've done that it's boring.

Speaker 5 Man City being sort of this metronome of success is boring.

Speaker 5 As a city man, presumably you don't, you're not bored.

Speaker 12 Am I bored? No, i'm suffering from success that's uh yeah no that let's let's not be

Speaker 1 for me like

Speaker 12 when i see them and i see the journey that they go on and you know whether it ends with success or failure is what it is but there are other teams who are involved in this and if we go back i think it's six game weeks

Speaker 12 Everything changed when Arsenal and Liverpool lost at home on that Sunday. That had nothing to do with City.
Nothing to do with it. Someone might say, oh, but City won on the day before.

Speaker 1 Well, that's football.

Speaker 12 Like, teams play games and they win games. But in that moment, City were third and it was out of their hands.
And they weren't going to be playing Liverpool. They weren't going to be playing Arsenal.

Speaker 12 So if either of those teams were able to continue the form that they'd been into that point,

Speaker 12 then there's nothing City can do as such. But from then, obviously points were dropped.
City won their games in hand. And then here they are.
Obviously, Liverpool fell off as well.

Speaker 12 But again, even like the Spurs game, the further we get away from it, people say, well, obviously they won that game. They were always going to win it.

Speaker 12 It's the easiest game in the world because it's against Spurs. Like, if you watch the game, when Son is running through on goal, like the goalkeeper makes a save.

Speaker 12 Son should, in my opinion, Son finishes that probably seven times out of 10. But this time he didn't.
But what happens if he did? And then there was a chance for Kulasewi as well, which Ortega saved.

Speaker 12 There was a chance again for Son, which Ortega saved. That game was anything but comfortable for Man City.
But because they won 2-0, be perceived as comfortable, they've done it again.

Speaker 12 Easiest thing in the world. They've not had to work for it.
And I think any side that wins a league title has to work a lot harder than most people perceive them to do.

Speaker 12 So I'm not necessarily convinced that it's the easiest thing in the world and it's boring because you see the jeopardy on a week-to-week basis, as was the case for Arsenal when they played United on the weekend.

Speaker 12 They're 1-0. And in those last 10, 15 minutes, you're knowing that if they concede,

Speaker 12 everything changes.

Speaker 12 And that sort of fear and panic that exists in the second half of the season doesn't just exist for people at at the top it's it's people everywhere and i think the fans that go and watch the games they understand it but when you're not really watching the majority of minutes for any particular team then you just kind of go at fibers as opposed to reality so i'm i'm at ease now

Speaker 12 because i trust them to do well in that last game of the season but then even historically you know 2012 they nearly bottled it against qpr didn't they and then two years ago against Aston Villa.

Speaker 1 2-0 down.

Speaker 12 They were 2-0 down. So they end up winning both titles.
And people say, oh, of course they won it.

Speaker 12 But in reality, if you watch the games, you know that there's a lot more to football than just the favourite winning easily all the time.

Speaker 5 Yeah. John, do you,

Speaker 5 is the, for the neutral, is the best thing

Speaker 5 Man City failing to beat West Ham, but then Arsenal failing to beat Everton as well? I'm just trying to think what's the most entertaining thing for the neutral.

Speaker 13 I suppose for the neutral, it's that the final day does become a chase of some sort.

Speaker 13 There is jeopardy in it. You know, you go back to the 95, 94, 95, Blackburn, Man United scenario, Man United at West Ham, Blackburn at Liverpool, that type of thing, where

Speaker 13 to the very last minute of the season, you're wondering where it is, or of course, the 2012 featuring one of our guests here.

Speaker 13 That's what you want from a final day. That's what the broadcasters want.
That's not necessarily what the fans want. A Manchester City fan is wanting this serene De Bruyne and Haaland carve two goals.

Speaker 13 David Moyes decides to play the kids.

Speaker 13 You know, everyone shakes hands and goes into Manchester for another celebration.

Speaker 13 And Arsenal,

Speaker 13 I was seeing today that they've been trimming the topiri around the ground and have readied themselves

Speaker 13 if a party can take place.

Speaker 13 And Arsenal just have to hope and hope and hope and hope that their players don't fall apart. We always, this cliche, anything can happen.

Speaker 13 Well, no, probably what will happen is that Manchester City will beat David Moyes' West Ham.

Speaker 13 But if you have a hope as a neutral,

Speaker 13 I'm not sure some people would call me a neutral in this. Yeah, let's just see something happen that doesn't mean I'm just watching, oh God, I'm turning off.
I'm looking for... I mean,

Speaker 13 I was at the City game last week and I was trying to work out what Arsenal fans turned the TV over to when City started winning that game quite easily. And I worked out it was Cotswold Farm on ITV.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah, I bet that's good.

Speaker 13 Yeah, so I mean, like, but maybe work out if you really care about this, but you, you know, you obviously on Sunday, we hope it's good weather, so you can maybe go out, you know, relax, take in real life outside, or you can switch over the TV or, you know, hit Netflix or something.

Speaker 13 You know, it's just

Speaker 1 how are you going to deal with this if it's not going your way I would really like West Ham to so we've had you know the

Speaker 1 Fabianski Areola

Speaker 1 boo-boos in the pod this is

Speaker 1 bin both of them and bring back Ludo McClosco

Speaker 1 who

Speaker 1 put in one of the most stunning goalkeeping performances I think I have ever seen for West Ham against Manchester United that day.

Speaker 1 What year was that, John?

Speaker 5 John Heads in His Hands, yeah.

Speaker 13 The pay knife. I watched that.

Speaker 1 It was quite astonishing how good he was. For West Hampton, Dad, nothing to play for, as far as I can remember.
And he more or less won the title for Blackburn, despite not being a Blackburn player.

Speaker 13 Yeah, Michael Hughes X City scored for West Ham. And the thing is,

Speaker 13 I was at university at the time,

Speaker 13 and I was in a room in which the entire room wants Blackburn to win the title. And it had, it's in the old days of Sky, you know, the Sky.

Speaker 5 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 So that

Speaker 13 would show footage of Brian McLare equalising it. He's like, oh, yeah.
And he sat there. And then

Speaker 13 when West Ham scored first, the whole

Speaker 13 play celebrates that is one of the loneliest feelings of my entire existence.

Speaker 5 John says, if Gary O'Neill kills VAR, where should we build his statue? Brummy, if the Premier League decides to get rid of VAR, will someone in Stockley Park get to review the decision?

Speaker 5 Yeah, so Premier League clubs will vote at next month's annual general meeting on a proposal by Wolves to scrap VAR from the start of next season.

Speaker 5 Wolves said after five seasons, it's time for a constructive and critical debate on its future.

Speaker 5 Our position is that the price we're paying for a small increase in accuracy is at odds with the spirit of our game.

Speaker 5 A Premier League spokesperson said the Premier League can confirm it'll facilitate a discussion on VAR with our clubs at the AGM next month.

Speaker 5 The league fully supports the use of VAR and remains committed alongside the PGMOL to make continued improvements to the system for the benefit of the game and fans. Nadam, your thoughts?

Speaker 12 So I'm in a funny position because

Speaker 12 obviously I was coming from Wolves and the manager is Gary O'Neill, who 10 years ago was bailing me out in the playoff final at Wembley after I made a mistake and you get sent off.

Speaker 12 You know, would you do it? Would you take someone down? Yeah, he did it, hero. But I couldn't disagree anymore with this, but more so in terms of how it's been wrapped up.

Speaker 12 I think we've heard Wolves be critical of decisions that have gone against them this season many times. And whether that's right or not, I don't know.

Speaker 12 But this

Speaker 12 is being sold as if it's to be done for the spirit of the game. But

Speaker 12 for me,

Speaker 12 you can sense that it's just not that. When you're saying, oh, the price that we pay, even though there's been an increase in accuracy, well, that means that,

Speaker 12 well, to be fair, let me put it this way.

Speaker 12 So when you get the chance to speak with referees, PGMOL and so on, they understand and listen to the grievances of other stakeholders within football, like the fans and so on.

Speaker 12 And they're all constantly working to try and streamline it to where at some point they'll reach a level where it's easier for people to understand.

Speaker 12 And some of their biggest complaints have been addressed. They want things to be quicker, you know, whether it's the semi-automated offside.
They want to be able to explain to people what's going on.

Speaker 12 So it's heading in that direction. But Wolves almost feels like they're trying to say this to, I don't know, because I don't think they're going to get the 14 votes to begin with anyway.

Speaker 12 Especially if you say, if you say, oh, yeah, it's been more accurate, but, well, if it's been more accurate, then what's the need in the butt? Like, talk about other things. So

Speaker 12 I'm not sold on this at all, to be honest. It's a bit disappointing because it feels disingenuous.
And I think

Speaker 12 it's almost like a footballing level of populism because it says, we're trying to help you out, the fans, but their biggest issue has been with decisions that they feel have gone against them.

Speaker 12 But they're also saying it's more accurate. So I'm not buying a single bit of this at all, but I'm struggling to really explain myself without putting my foot in my mouth.

Speaker 12 So could someone else please take over, please?

Speaker 1 Before I say too much,

Speaker 13 I was going to the word that made him use absolute correct populism.

Speaker 13 If you go to Molyneux, I was at a game recently, they played Luton, and Richard Masters was actually at the game, chief executive of the Premier League.

Speaker 13 At Wolves, they play Robert Plants there, who is the life president or whatever his job.

Speaker 13 So they played Led Zeppelin Medley

Speaker 13 at the start of the game. And so you can see Richard Masters there, like, oh, I get treated to the full Wolves treatment.
What he didn't know was what follows that is a song about fuck VAR, right?

Speaker 13 Because at Wolves, they hate VAR. Like you wouldn't believe, right? And if you walk through the corridors of Molyneux, the mutterings are VAR VA VAR oh it's rubbish this it's killing the game and

Speaker 13 I'm not joking I mean I'm okay I'm being slightly uh

Speaker 13 cartoon like but that's my impression I've been to Molyneux two three times this season and VAR there was one game I went to was the

Speaker 13 uh is it uh was a goal was turned down against um

Speaker 13 Newcastle, which was a very lengthy VAR and it should have been awarded and it was you yeah and and Gary O'Neill has led the charge against VAR as a manager manager.

Speaker 13 When he was at Bournemouth, he did the same last season. And he is

Speaker 13 Gary O'Neill is popular among Worlds fans. One of those is that

Speaker 13 they hate VAR too. So this is a VAR

Speaker 13 crusading club. Now,

Speaker 13 I think, certainly, I think Max and Barry, I think both of we all share doubts about VAR or the implementation of it. Is it realistic to expect the clubs to overturn it?

Speaker 13 I think there might be some idea that again to,

Speaker 13 if they have this meeting, they have this discussion, that they will turn and say, oh, VAR's on notice, you know, we need to see improvements, which is fair enough.

Speaker 13 But I think getting rid of the process, once it's come in, to go back, because what VAR's biggest problem, I think, is that it's created focus on referees.

Speaker 13 It's created focus on such and such from Greater Manchester or whatever, that referees have become more famous. and that's not been a good development.

Speaker 13 And if we go back and we take away VAR, that's not going to change the pressure on referees. That is still going to be there.
And that's what VR is supposed to do, it's supposed to help them out.

Speaker 5 I mean, I think I probably would like to get rid of it.

Speaker 5 And then when they got rid of it, I'd just be a massive hypocrite and say we need to get exactly going into the cycle for the rest of my life wanting what we don't have.

Speaker 5 Anyway, that'll do for part two. Tarek Panja from the New York Times is out in Bangkok at the FIFA Congress, rather him than me.

Speaker 5 But we'll talk to him about the things that Gianni's planning this weekend.

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Speaker 7 Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

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Speaker 5 Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Let's bring in Tarek Pander from the New York Times, who is in Thailand, where the annual FIFA Congress is being held.
Hey, Tarek, how are you?

Speaker 5 Hi, good afternoon. Good afternoon.

Speaker 5 Do you like going to the the FIFA Congress? I don't know if this is. How many have you been to before? Is this an exciting time for you?

Speaker 18 Actually, I like wearing lanyards, so of course I enjoy coming to the FIFA Congress.

Speaker 5 What are we expecting? Are we expecting Jani to do a big address and tell us all how wonderful he is again?

Speaker 18 Well, it's interesting.

Speaker 18 This Congress is coming with the backdrop of events in Gaza,

Speaker 18 and that's going to be one of the big issues around the Congress. I'm not sure much will happen in terms of substance, substance, but the Palestinians will take the floor and ask for,

Speaker 18 I guess, some type of sanction against Israel, which they have been doing actually for several years previously to this, because some of the issues they're raising aren't related to Gaza per se.

Speaker 18 For example, the Palestinians have said there are teams

Speaker 18 based in the

Speaker 18 settler lands, Palestinian lands that have been taken by, they say, by Israeli settler groups who are playing in the Israeli football leagues, for example, and they say that is a breach of FIFA's rules.

Speaker 18 The weird thing here is this isn't a question of morality or anything like this, because

Speaker 18 this isn't the purview of football. So, what the Palestinians have done is gone through the FIFA statutes and said, these are your rules, This is happening.
Now do something about it.

Speaker 18 You know, behind all of this, what I've noticed is,

Speaker 18 you know, these people are humans, but it's seen the news like everybody else. And there is a feeling among a lot of the federations here that there should be some support towards the Palestinians.

Speaker 18 However, when it comes to saying what should happen, I think everyone is kind of looking away at that point.

Speaker 5 So I was going to ask, that was the question I was going to ask, is how much support do the Palestinian FA have? I read somewhere: did six other associations, or maybe the West Asian

Speaker 5 Federation, supported them even before they'd put their letter to FIFA?

Speaker 18 Yeah,

Speaker 18 which is quite rare, to be honest. Normally, you don't need this support to take the floor at a FIFA Congress.
Every member has a right to speak.

Speaker 18 In this case, they've got half a dozen letters of support.

Speaker 18 And so that's quite rare in that sense. And I was at the Asian Football Confederation annual Congress

Speaker 18 this morning, and it was made clear that the Palestinians have the support of the AFC. What is that? So 45 Asian nations.
What does that mean? It's very hard to know because

Speaker 18 they're supportive of the Palestinians raising their questions. They're supportive of the Palestinians'

Speaker 18 plight here. But what does that mean in concrete terms? Now, I'm not sure there's much that can happen at Congress.
It's not going to be be a vote.

Speaker 18 I don't see there's a vote and saying, right, who votes to kick this country out? Because I don't think that can happen.

Speaker 18 Only the FIFA board or the FIFA council has those sort of powers. And you just get the sense there isn't a mood to do something like that.
And the Palestinians are then saying, you know,

Speaker 18 they seem to believe that they are the victims of kind of football hypocrisy. They're not happy with Yanni and Fantino.
I haven't been happy with him for years because obviously they're saying Russia

Speaker 18 is a pariah nation for the invasion of Ukraine

Speaker 18 and they have been barred from FIFA and UEFA, etc., etc.

Speaker 18 Others would say

Speaker 18 this situation is not exactly the same, there are degrees of complexity here, but I think they are getting sympathetic hearings, and not just from Asians.

Speaker 18 Lisa Klavnest, who you guys know, the Norwegian FA President, she said that there is no way, under the current circumstances, she could not support whatever the Palestinians are asking for.

Speaker 5 Now, so when Russia were banned, that wasn't a vote at a Congress. That was just FIFA, you know, saying, you are banned.

Speaker 5 So there wouldn't be, there's not sort of like a majority, if any country, if somebody said, I don't want this country to

Speaker 5 stay within FIFA or be chucked out of tournaments, that isn't a kind of majority vote type thing.

Speaker 18 Yeah, yeah, exactly. In the past, that could have happened.
But I think almost because of this issue, FIFA changed the rules, so it can't be a member vote.

Speaker 18 But the Russia thing is also interesting, and not to bore your listeners, some of it's to do with kind of the way football is structured. Israel plays in UEFA, which is Europe.

Speaker 18 The Palestinians are in the Asian Football Confederation.

Speaker 18 They can't meet. They're not in the same leagues.

Speaker 18 The nations aren't in the same competitions. So why is that different to Russia and Ukraine? They're both in UEFA.

Speaker 18 And what happened was Ukraine couldn't play in UEFA competitions because another UEFA member was essentially invading at that point.

Speaker 18 And also a bunch of other European nations, Poland being one,

Speaker 18 I think Sweden, a couple of others, so we will not play against Russian teams. So

Speaker 18 Russia, then basically FIFA and UEFA said, this has implications on our smooth running of our competitions. So not a moral judgment.

Speaker 18 It's a we need our competitions to take place, so this is what we're going to do. We're going to bar Russia almost in a force measure situation.
So FIFA didn't say

Speaker 18 Russia you're out because you've done something

Speaker 18 you know appalling like invading Ukraine. It's from a legal point of view was we can't have smooth running of our competition because of this country, so you are out.

Speaker 18 And that kind of argument maybe doesn't exist here.

Speaker 18 But it's such a weird thing to be talking about, given, you know, as we're sitting here recording this, bombs are being dropped, and people are dying, and this conflict is sort of raging on.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so

Speaker 5 your presumption is that they will have the floor,

Speaker 5 they will bring their case forward, and lots of people will say, well, we agree with you, but we don't agree with you quite that much, that kind of vibe.

Speaker 18 Yeah, this kind of thing, because if you talk to people in the hallway, and there's something really, I've never seen this before, and this happened in the AFC Congress.

Speaker 18 These Congresses are pretty, you know,

Speaker 18 straightforward. There's a speech and then we're going to vote on this, we're going to vote on that, give some awards out to someone.
Gianni and Pantino might make a speech, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 18 But this time they said

Speaker 18 we're going to show a video that the Palestinian FA has sent it.

Speaker 18 And I must say, it was quite an arresting video.

Speaker 18 It featured

Speaker 18 pretty much carnage in Gaza.

Speaker 18 and kind of overlaid with data and numbers. And then I don't know why, but

Speaker 18 of you see all of that graphic stuff. But then they said, you know, they had a list of people who've died related to football because this is a football event.

Speaker 18 And this list sort of scrolled down on the screen. And it took about a minute and a half for these, and they weren't in big type.
These are tiny, tiny type.

Speaker 18 I couldn't read them from where I was sitting. I was, wow, that is a lot of people.

Speaker 18 And it was quite an arresting moment. And I was talking to some of the members after, and they were like, that was quite something to sit through.

Speaker 18 And look, we're all watching the news. We have these things every day.

Speaker 18 And I don't think it's ever going to be normal, is it? To just having to see that stuff happening day after day.

Speaker 5 No, not at all.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 5 I think for lots of people, you know, it almost feels totally trite when you're talking about that to talk about anything else.

Speaker 5 So for me to sort of say, oh, and what else is happening seems so sort of.

Speaker 1 Before we move on, Max, I just mentioned that last night in Dublin Bohemians

Speaker 1 hosted the Palestinian women's team for a game in Dalymount Park. It was packed.

Speaker 1 It was a real festival occasion and they raised money for

Speaker 1 Palestinians who are suffering because of what's going on in Gaza.

Speaker 1 I think President Michael D. Higgins was there, loads of musicians, artists, poets, real party atmosphere.
And

Speaker 1 yeah, compare and contrast with

Speaker 1 Bohemians who really, their heart is really in the right place. They're a wonderful club in Ireland.

Speaker 1 Compare and contrast with

Speaker 1 Robbie Keene, who's about to manage Maccabee Tel Aviv to the Israeli title.

Speaker 1 you know but Robbie doesn't want to talk about politics uh but yeah I just thought I'd mention it anyway that great occasion in Dublin last night.

Speaker 5 Presumably the Israeli FA are also at this Congress.

Speaker 18 This is the other thing. You can see the thing around the conference.
So I'm in a hotel. This hotel I'm talking to you from basically has three confederations in it.

Speaker 18 It's got UEFA, it's got the Asian Football Confederation, and it's got Comnobol

Speaker 18 from South America. So the Israelis and Palestinians are staying in the same place.
So around the Hawks,

Speaker 18 you are seeing these groups lobbying in kind of real time,

Speaker 18 talking to FAs. It's just as messy and murky as kind of anything I can think of.
And to your point, Max, it's really weird then to talk about something else here.

Speaker 18 But there was, you know, in the middle of this, I sat in the AFC Congress

Speaker 18 and,

Speaker 18 you know, you're just sort of shaking your head and rolling your eyes. They had a vote, a statute change,

Speaker 18 to get rid of term limits.

Speaker 5 Is that across all of FIFA or just Asia?

Speaker 18 Today, at Asia, today.

Speaker 18 Where Asia leads, others follow. Who knows?

Speaker 18 So it was like FIFA and like

Speaker 18 the other confederations, maximum of three terms of 12 years. That feels ample, right? Good enough.
But nope.

Speaker 1 Easy enough.

Speaker 18 No more term limits in Asian football.

Speaker 18 And that's become a

Speaker 18 bit of a theme. At FIFA's Congress on Friday, we're going to see FIFA roll back some of its good governance reforms.
Let's not forget, maybe some of your listeners might be young.

Speaker 18 They might not remember people being led away in handcuffs in 2015 from a five-star hotel in Zurich, which was supposed to herald a really big change for international football.

Speaker 18 But what we've seen more and more in recent years is back to

Speaker 18 the past when it comes to governance. We'll see that tomorrow when FIFA has its reforms announced.

Speaker 5 Right. Tarek, always good to talk to you.
Thanks for coming on, pal.

Speaker 18 Thanks. Nice to be with you guys.

Speaker 5 Tarek Panther there out in Bangkok. Just time for a tiny bit of any other business and changing the subject quite dramatically.
Peter writes Steer Football Weekly.

Speaker 5 This is a strange request, but my friend is collecting all the seven-inch vinyl singles that reached the UK top 40 in 1985. 300 or so.

Speaker 5 He's down to the last few, and one of the many remaining is Everton's 1985 FA Cup final song. It's called Here We Go.

Speaker 13 Yeah, do you know how it goes?

Speaker 1 Uh,

Speaker 5 I could hazard a guess.

Speaker 1 Um,

Speaker 5 could uh, you ask your lovely listeners or Barry uh if they have a copy to get in touch.

Speaker 5 Uh, it does make me wonder if any of your panel would admit to buying a single album that they would rather forget. Love the show, Peter.
Um, he will accept anonymous donations.

Speaker 5 This is a terrible record.

Speaker 1 I reckon I know someone who probably has that.

Speaker 13 I reckon I do as well. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I'll put out a feeler. I'd say he has it.
I'd be astonished if he doesn't have it, but I doubt he'll part with it.

Speaker 13 Everton were very popular at my school. Because we lived in Cheshire, it was like United's up the road, so city.
But then there were those that decided to, because Everton were good at about 84, 85.

Speaker 13 Everton were very popular. I remember that song, it's like E-V-E-R-T-O-N, because we are, you know, Everton and Everton forever.

Speaker 1 Yeah, good.

Speaker 13 It was a classic. Andy Gray on it, of course.

Speaker 5 Of course, yeah.

Speaker 5 And big Nev, hopefully.

Speaker 5 My first ever single was the Anfield rap on vinyl.

Speaker 5 Speaking of music, Dr. Grogonopoulos,

Speaker 5 referring to yesterday's pod, said, I've never heard a more middle-aged back and forth than the Timberland chat, one of his stuff.

Speaker 5 And on to the Alessi twins. Barry writes, it'll be interesting to see how long this crucial fact stays on Jonathan Wilson's Wikipedia page.

Speaker 5 It now says on his Wikipedia, Wilson is exactly 10 years younger than Australian actresses Gail and Gillian Blakeney, who played Caroline and Christina Alessi in Neighbours.

Speaker 5 And David writes on the subject of the Alessi twins, Wilson made an understandable pronunciation error. They were played by Gail and Gillian with a hard G.

Speaker 5 This was the basis of the finest joke I've ever heard when their music video was played on Going Live, after which one of Trev and Simon said, People often ask why it's pronounced Gillian, not Gillian.

Speaker 5 Why don't they ask why it's pronounced Gail, not Jail? Which let's face it is where everyone involved in this music video deserves to be.

Speaker 5 Jeb and Simon were good daddy, weren't they? Anyway, that'll do for today's podcast. Thank you, Nadam.
Thank you very much. Thanks, John.

Speaker 13 Cheers, Max.

Speaker 5 Thank you, Barry. Thanks.
Privileged Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.

Speaker 1 This is The Guardian.