A classic at Anfield and Arsenal go top – Football Weekly

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This is The Guardian.

Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly, another brilliant Liverpool Man City game.

Given the Red second half dominance, City will probably be happier with the draw.

They could have stolen it in injury time when Jeremy Doku's left foot strike hit the post.

They could have lost it in injury time when Jeremy Doku's right foot strike hit Alexis McAllister in the sternum.

So much to discuss in the title decider that didn't feature the team at the top of the league.

That's Arsenal, who just about beat Brentford.

Kai Havertz could have been sent off but wasn't and scored the decisive header.

Aaron Ramsdale quite relieved after a big error in one of the two games he now gets a season.

In the race for the top four Spurs Hammer Villa, while John McGean has a real get-it-launch moment on Destiny a Doggy.

Cut and paste Manchester United a bad, but win against cut and paste Everton just can't score goals.

There's the rebirth of Danny Ings, some more work from Mark Clattenberg at Forest, and the mesmerising delivery of Andros Townsend.

All that plus Neil Warnock leaving Aberdeen.

Neville Southall on Tapwater.

Your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today.

Will Unwin, welcome.

Hello, Max.

Hello, Salon Andy Hickman.

Hello, Max.

And hello, Barry Glendenning.

Hi, Max.

How are you doing?

I'm all right, thanks.

Andy Andy says, was that too much Barclays for one game?

Liverpool won, City won.

Barry, I thought it was compelling from start to finish.

It was a brilliant game of football.

Yeah, it was really superb, and I'm glad it lived up to the

oceans of hype in the week before the game.

It was

often chaotic, breathless, intense, end-to-end.

Could have gone either way.

Probably should have gone Liverpool's way on the back of their second half performance.

Then it should have gone City's way with that doku shot you mentioned and should have gone Liverpool's way again, probably with that doku

high boot into the chest, which I'm sure of

McAllister, which I'm sure we'll get to.

So

good performances all over the pitch.

And

I think Gary Neville is like in playing at Anfield to being chucked into a washing machine.

at times during the second half, City's players looked like you know, a bit flustered and bamboozled in a way we don't often see from them.

And I'd say they'd be very glad of the point.

Liverpool could end up looking at this as two points dropped because their second half performance was superb, and they didn't really get the rewards they deserved from it, I think.

With a bit more composure from Louis Diaz, they'd have won that game comfortably.

Yeah, I thought he was brilliant but missed those chances.

Will you a city fan, Ceylon, you're a Liverpool fan as we established

this week, it matters more to Liverpool fans.

So I'll go to Salon first.

What did you make of that performance, especially Liverpool in the second half?

Oh, yeah, Liverpool were incredible in that second half, but I think Barry hit the nail on the head.

It was all over the pitch was a completely like exceptional performance, I think, from both teams.

And I think

before the game, I think lots of Liverpool fans were saying that we would really take a draw in that game, and that always feels different with hindsight once you've sat there and watched your team play some exceptional football in the second half, have so many good chances, have a few very clear-cut chances that Louis Diaz just didn't hit the target, and then have the doku challenge in the last minute of the game.

You can feel like you did drop two points, but I think

once it's settled, and I think

thinking about Man City and what they can do and what they can bring, I'm really happy with that point.

And I don't, yeah, I think we did we did play brilliantly, and particularly with that bit of a like

four of that team not being sort of regular starters, it's just consistent brilliance.

And I, and there is a sadness about that being also like the last sort of clock pep in the league rivalry and everyone's saying they'll be back, but I just in this form, it's really hard to see where we'll get to having that level of excellence from both teams again, really, which is the sad pit for me.

Will, thoughts?

This podcast means more to me, that's the key thing.

It was interesting because in the first 20 minutes, it looked like City were going to run away with it.

The complete dominance had a lot of possession in the final third, but without

really creating a dangerous opportunity until opening the scoring.

I must thank Rob Smythe for handing over the minute-by-minute to me on Saturday because he was ill.

So I had a furious

two hours of typing in the madness, which was quite a jaunt for me.

But yeah, I thought City actually, you know, they were really good in the first half.

There was a moment just in injury time in the first half, which I thought actually started tipping the balance when Rodri got booked for a pretty needless foul.

in the final few seconds and when Roderay's booked you're in a little bit of trouble because it puts him in a precarious position and we came out in the second half with a sort of self-destruct button because something must have flicked a little bit when you make two colossal errors, pour back pass, and Edison loses his head.

You've got to be a bit smarter with that Nunes challenge.

You sort of

let him go by, maybe, and risk it.

Maybe he'd seen John McGinn earlier that afternoon and thought, I'll have some of that.

It wasn't as vicious.

Why not?

But yeah, I dare say, in the end, the second half was all Liverpool completely.

And I mentioned in the minute-by-minute, City would take the point.

Kovacich came on to bring the control that was completely lacking in City's midfield, and De Bruyne can complain as much as he wants, but actually, probably more sensible to phone on the pitch at the moment, just because I think he's probably got more legs overall.

And so, yeah, it was a good point for City.

They can take a lot of positives that actually they did keep Liverpool out.

It was a lot of hard work, and other teams probably wouldn't have been able to maintain that level in defence to

hold them back.

I know they had a few chances, but

Eltega made the one save from Nunes

from the six-yard line.

But apart from that, it wasn't anything really significant they had to do, I would argue.

So, yeah, so City can be pleased with that.

And yeah, obviously, what happened in the last minutes will say, we say the last minute, it was like 10 minutes of anti-garden time.

So, yeah, I think City will be very happy with the point in the end.

And

it was a difficult game to get through, but getting through it probably does City quite a lot of good going forward.

And you know, they've got Arsenal next in the league, so it's a fun position to be in.

And then they've got Arsenala who are terrible now, it turns out.

So, you know,

it's a fun little period after the international break for them.

Scott says on the certain foul scene, I'm given not a foul scale.

Where does Barry place dokus given that Carl Walker breathing in the vicinity of Marcus Rashford was definitely a foul just a week ago?

I think I've only seen Shea given on match the day, and producer Joel suggests that that shouldn't be a penalty.

I don't know what you think, Baz.

Would not have been in the least bit surprised if it had been given.

I don't necessarily agree with the theory that if it happens anywhere else in the pitch, it is not,

it is obviously a foul in a yellow card.

But when it wasn't given, I wasn't surprised that it wasn't overturned.

So I think it is probably a foul.

I don't think it was as brutal an assault as some are making out.

I think Doku actually, there was no force in it.

He tried to pull his foot back.

But yeah, I wouldn't have been in the least bit surprised if it had been given.

And my first impression was, oh, yeah, that's a penalty.

But it looks worse slowed down than it.

It wasn't Nigel de Jong, was it?

No, no, no.

So I'm going to sit in the fence with this one.

Yeah, I wouldn't have been surprised it was given.

And I can totally understand why uh jürgen klop and various other liverpool

people associated with liverpool be they players fans whatever are are aggrieved um i'd rather i mean salon i presume you think it was a penalty but i don't want to sort of spend hours on on that i'd rather talk about a louis diaz because i thought he was he was brilliant but also sort of I mean, cost to the game is not fair, is it?

But he had those chances whether he just couldn't get the ball on the controller.

He missed that one-on-one.

But I thought he was so brilliant.

And I thought he led the chaos in a sort of darwin noonersy way yesterday he did and just on the penalty i think it probably was a penalty but it also doesn't have for me quite the the sort of latency or like the the i don't feel as strongly or as powerfully that i don't feel aggrieved necessarily and i think that's always a marker of okay well it could have gone either way

so i think probably a lot of liverpool fans will feel that way and klop in his post match kind of named it didn't he was like i'm angry but also, how can you be angry when we just play like that?

So, um, but on Diaz, yeah,

he you have to have a player like him coming up against Pep's desire for control because you need someone to just come in there and sort of really cause the chaos that will allow to unlock Liverpool to start playing.

And he did that fantastically.

And for him, I don't think he's ever started that fixture before either.

So, for him, that was you know a massive thing.

You've got the intensity of the Anfield crowd, and usually,

we put him through on goal and you would expect him to finish.

And I think, I don't know,

a couple of his first touches didn't set himselves to really get his body position in the right way to then be able to create the opportunity.

And I think, yeah,

I'd be averse to saying he cost us the game because, you know,

he worked so, so hard and got us into some brilliant positions.

He just couldn't finish in some really clinical places yesterday.

And that, that, yeah, was, it did let us down, but I i don't think it's the reason we lost the game well not lost the game drew the game yeah uh you know there was that run where he sort of beat everybody and then we sort of ended i think he won a corner he was just flat on his back he's absolutely just destroyed but but you know it was an amazing bit of play you mentioned salon actually you know the the back four and we'll get to van dijk in a second but i thought you know Conor Bradley's been amazing.

It's just amazing how good he is.

Sort of sitting there going, maybe he's better than Trenton Alexander Arnold, the right back.

I'm not sure now.

And Joel Quancha, who is

definitely better than Harry Maguire.

It's all I was watching this game going,

could we get, can he?

He could play, couldn't he?

We could just get him.

I thought he was so composed.

He was.

And I think it's just a testament to how, what is being instilled in these younger players that they can go out there and play with that confidence and bravery.

Kwanzaa, I think, in second, was it in the second half, quite late on, where he just drove through and just took that shot as well from about 30 yards out.

And I think that sort of

confidence, level of quality,

synergy as well to be able to slot in and take a game like that on an occasion and just go, Yeah, this is my position, and these are the players that I play alongside, is a real marker of kind of the culture of what is being built for those younger players to come in and play there, and a testament to their own individual sort of how hard they're working, how much they're learning, how much they're willing to learn.

And I think, yeah, it's a brilliant, brilliant squad to be inheriting for whoever comes next.

Well, what did you make of Haaland versus Van Dijk?

There was that moment where suddenly Haaland was through, and it was just Van Dijk.

And it was a bit like the final scene in a movie where the two are finally, it's just on their own together, normally on top of a train, and they're just there.

And actually, Haaland got a shot away.

And, like, he could have, if he'd put it in the corner, we'd have all said that was pretty terrible defending, but it looked like Van Dijk did enough.

But generally, Van Dijk won that battle.

Desperation to drag out Sky's metaphors about Liverpool V City being similar to the Oscars, you know, expecting

sorry, I didn't, I didn't see any of that.

So, like, this is my own doing.

Absolutely unbearable.

Oh, I can imagine.

But, yeah, expect them to sort of fall in each other's arms, realising they're sort of the adversaries have always needed, but actually, they love each other more than anyone could ever know.

Yeah, it was Haaland really wasn't in it.

And he's generally not in games, let's be honest.

That's not his role.

He produces finishes from nothing, really, a lot of the time.

He finds that little bit of movement.

He's not there to link up play generally.

You know, I'm sure his

touch count was about minus four or something, um, which was a shame.

But yeah, that was that was obviously the big moment.

And Van Dijk is an incredibly experienced defender and just pushed Haaland wider than you'd want to be.

So you're a little bit off balance, you can't get the right amount of power and accuracy in the shot that you want.

And it was quite a simple save for Keller.

And yeah, Van Dijk was incredible considering four of that back five are not the first choice from goalkeeper.

So right back, Kwanzaa, Gomez at left back.

It's yeah, so they did really well to manage Haaland and say, because I've repeating myself, but that first 20 minutes you thought, oh, this defence can be got at.

But they recovered very well and they were marshalled very well to stop City.

You know, in the early doors, they were getting a bit of space down City's left.

Alvarez had some space against Bradley and Silver was picking up pockets of space that he was utilising well, but those sort of things went quite quickly.

Liverpool adapted to what City were doing, and

that's what limited harlan's enjoyment in the final third because the ball never really got to him you know there was one moment where it looked like he was going to head it in at the back post and you know liverpool just got got there in time to flick it over for a corner so yeah it was a pretty quiet one for for earling just make him angrier won't it and and just on the penalty clear clearly mcalester dived like how's no one pointed this out

i don't don't get it well it was quite funny when macalester was lying on the floor but the ball was still near him and he was just sort of now he was just sort of like a body that they had to sort of play around.

Um, I from City Baz, I thought I was just so impressed with John Stones, actually, who is sort of this remarkable like his development.

I know he scored a goal, so it's sort of obvious to highlight him, but just the way he played in midfield in a midfield where lots of people were playing well, was seriously impressive.

I thought, yeah,

he's been really impressive in recent games.

Uh, he's in the form of his life and has

hugely improved as a player under Pep Guardiola.

The goal, I think, was brilliant.

I mean, the corner routine for Kevin De Bruyne to send in that delivery without putting the ball out of play because it was an outswinger, wasn't it?

To Ake blocked off someone at the near post, McAllister, I think it was, and

Stones crept into the gap and put the ball away at the near post.

But just an incredibly assured performance among,

I mean it's easier just to to pick out who didn't perform really because everyone was

I thought Haaland had a conspicuously ineffective and anonymous game although it was him who played that ball wide to Doku to set up the chance where he hit the post that was a good pass but he didn't really contribute much else um

but yeah stones is is having a great time at the moment.

Yeah, I thought Foden was pretty quiet actually in that game.

I mean, that's just a testament to how Liverpool played, I guess, Salon.

And now it's all done.

Like, how do you feel about the title race now?

I mean, clearly, it's just, it's obviously completely impossible to call because three two points separate three sides.

I don't see it as a major setback within the title race.

I still think those two have got to play each other next.

And

Arsenal are just so informed at the moment that I do think it's the one chart time where Arsenal could get a really good result against City.

For us,

I think we just have to, you just literally have to win every single game now, and that's all you can do, and that's all you can control.

It's so funny.

I'm actually also Dunwich Hamler in a three-horse title race at the moment where we were playing yesterday, and we

won convincingly 4-1, but our rivals are Dartford and Fulham for the title.

And when I went onto the pitch, Dartford were losing to Millwall 2-1.

And when we came off and the final whistle went, I was like, Yes, we've won 4-1.

What was the Dartford score?

And they came back to win 3-2.

And then I just felt like we'd just lost.

We'd just lost the game.

It was just so, it's so frustrating.

And

they have to lose for us to win the league.

And I think that's the same thing.

It's like all you can do is concentrate every single week on what you can do and your performances and win every game.

And yes, every game is a cup final.

And Arsenal creating that feeling at the Emirates massively where you're going into that space.

Liverpool doing it, Anfield.

Doubts whether the city will ever manage to do it at the Etihad.

But

out of the three, I'd say it's Liverpool or Arsenal's now at this point.

I don't know if City have the

energy to keep doing it as they have down, whereas there feels like a lot more

massive forces around Liverpool and Arsenal to really go for this.

So, would you want City to beat Arsenal or Arsenal to beat City?

Or would you want a draw?

I would like a draw, please.

I will be the.

Do you see the memes of Arteta sitting in the VAR booth on the Doku challenge?

That will be me against those two wanting a draw.

Will, where did it?

I mean, again, it doesn't change much, does it?

No, it changes pretty much nothing, especially obviously the runs runner fixtures ahead for each team.

Yeah, interesting that City V Arsenal now will just be a battle of set pieces, sort of

big Sam style.

It's just Aladice versus Daish now with clever set pieces to come.

I would disagree.

I think City have got a lot of energy to give.

They've done it in the past.

They've got a lot of experience in dealing with the Champions League and the Premier League.

And I don't think there's any shortage of energy, I'd say, at City.

I think they're pretty, still look pretty ruthless at times.

So yeah, I won't worry about that.

I think it's going to go.

It should be a free horse race right to the end.

Let's move on to Arsenal's win over Brentford then.

Their eighth win in a row in the league.

And I guess, Bats, a bit like Liverpool's win at Forest last week, you're going going to have to grind some out and get a bit lucky.

And on the balance of the game, they probably deserved it, but on the big moments, they had the fortune, didn't they, Arsenal?

Yeah, they've won 10 points now this season in the last five minutes of games, and

that's a testament.

Uh, you know, that's a good thing, it's that they're not lucky, they just keep going.

Uh, and Arsenal of Yor may not have won any of those 10 points, or you know, only about half of them.

This this wasn't one of the more impressive performances they were still worthy winners against a team

that were missing their entire entire first choice back four aaron ramsdale

his mistake has been highlighted obviously because the whole Ramsdale Raya soap opera or slightly confected soap opera Michael Arteta has always made it clear whose first choice keeper is this is yeah one of those ones you have to grind out I Brentford probably offered more than I thought they would, and they certainly offered more than many of Ariston's recent opponents.

So they did well to win this game.

Kai Havertz, four goals, two assists in his last four games.

He is finding his place still on, isn't he?

Whether he should have been on the pitch to score that header, I guess, is a pertinent question.

But he is still, you know, he was always good, but now he seems to be in the right.

place doing the right things.

Yeah, and I think he's one of these players that has always had that, but there's always been such a narrative around him that

it's sometimes quite hard to break through that narrative where everyone kind of just thinks you're going to be a bit of a flop, and then everything you do sort of confirms that.

And when you deny that narrative,

it's always such a surprise to people that you've done that.

And the thing for him, it has to be consistent now, and he has shown that in the last few games.

I do think it was a dive and he should not have been on the pitch to then score that header.

But

there's been so many talking points this weekend from refereeing.

But yeah,

it was a shame that that one wasn't picked up, I think.

Yeah, I mean, the interesting thing, Will, isn't it?

And I don't know if you agree or disagree, is we don't want VAR to get involved in everything.

But then it's so counterintuitive that it can take 10 minutes to work out whether West Ham shouldn't have a penalty against Freiburg in the Europa League.

And it can't take five seconds.

It's not allowed to get involved to go, mate, that was a dive.

It's not allowed to do that.

Whereas actually it's surely if a player is maybe, I don't know, if a player is on a yellow card, suddenly VAR can get involved in yellow card decisions because they

actually matter more.

I'll fear for how much the game would be further slowed down based on this.

I mean, it's a tricky one.

Especially, I think, a lot of these dives, I would say it's a bit subjective where you're trying to buy the contact and not being successful in Havertz case.

And, you know, some will buy it, and there'll be a bit of contact, but it's probably not a penalty, but is that a dive?

I mean, I think it would be a bit arduous to make VAR pick up more stuff because, frankly, this podcast would never end every week just discussing it.

We'd just have a separate VAR podcast on a Tuesday,

get some former refereeing to help discuss it with us.

You know, Mike Messias.

On the panel today, Mark Halsey.

Exactly.

Yeah, Keith Hackett, brilliant.

They're all in.

So, yeah, I mean, if we go in for these sort of things,

it would be tough.

I mean, I think it was 50-50 whether it was an out-and-out dive or not.

I did the minute-by-minute of this.

I've had a busy weekend.

I did call it a dive straight away.

So, yeah, I should probably stick to my guns, to be fair.

I actually did

the Girls United International Women's Day tournament on Saturday, and they had a VAR experience.

So, you had a big screen, and it showed you an incident in real time, and then it divided the screen up into the four different camera angles.

And you had to choose if it was a penalty or not, and then you had to do a different one was a a red or yellow.

And it genuinely, I've delivered, I've developed empathy for VAR refs now because it's so the four different five different angles that you get to watch and the speed, and then you can slow it down.

One of them will tell you that it's 100% a penalty, the other one will tell you that it's not 100% a penalty.

So, I've developed a bit more empathy on the VAR conversation, but I would not want that as a job.

I do think if we

run with this idea of having a Tuesday VAR special and had two or three refs on each time.

They'd never agree with each other and that sort of is the nub of the problem, isn't it?

They seem to be a very chippy bunch who don't like each other very much.

They're always, you know, ex-referees, always calling out former colleagues and whatnot.

So,

yeah, that's a pod.

It'd be quite adversarial broadcasting, wouldn't it?

They discover.

I mean, obviously, we know that Keith Hackett doesn't like me.

So like, you know, so that's, that's already, that's already some fire in this new podcast, isn't it?

It's worth mentioning Ivan Tony's brilliant effort.

And Ramsdale did very well to save that.

I mean, there were two efforts from long range this weekend, Ebert Chieze, and that one, and they were both so good.

And it's a shame that neither of them went in.

But, like, well done to Ramsdale because he probably wasn't expecting it and it was a good save.

So there we are.

That is the

top of the table.

Arsenal, 64 points from 28 games, same as Liverpool.

Man City, a point behind.

Part two, we'll begin with the race for the top four.

Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So the top four battle then.

Villa played 28.55 points.

Spurs 27.53 points.

Manchester United, who we're still including in this,

47 points from 28 games.

That's because Spurs won 4-0 at Villa Park in a brilliant second half.

Shturk says, can we all agree that Angeball, when it works, is the most watchable football in the league?

Barry, agree or disagree?

Yeah, I suppose it is very watchable, definitely.

I think Villa slightly played into Tottenham's hands yesterday.

First half wasn't much to talk about.

I think Villa had the best chance at John McGinn delivery that Luke Adeen headed over not long before half-time.

But Villa,

their approach in this game seemed quite meek uncharacteristically meek they played five at the back uh which is not their usual formation

and

spurs just

left themselves i think deliberately short of numbers at the back and the pressed impressed and pressed put pinned villa back into their own half and reduced them to playing long balls up towards Ollie Watkins.

It was really good by

Spurs, and

their tactics paid dividend early in the second half.

And then John McGinn lost his head, and that was it.

Game over.

I mean, Villa, they were 2-0 down, but there was still loads of time to go.

And

I mean, the cross from Papisara for the Madison goal, that was beautiful.

What a cross.

But

at 2-0 down, Villa was still in the game, could have rescued a point.

And yeah, John McGinn just his lost the plot yeah Brendan says any word from NASA on when a doggie is expected to come out of orbit Dave says in hindsight was it a poor decision for John McGinn to try to volley a doggie's shin into Rose ed it was strange Will and I suppose

it felt to me like it's one of those it's like an Instagram football fights page that sort of challenge like you see that you just sort of people always sending me these you know look at this in Sunday league and just someone just hoys into someone for absolutely no reason it didn't feel like that sort of game.

It didn't feel like Spurs were dominating Villa to such a degree that John McGinn would just go, oh, I just can't do this anymore.

Yeah, I was slightly upset that Undoggie decided to try and walk away immediately instead of jump up in the air and then go down.

Yeah, it's a very strange challenge, and there was no attempt to get the ball, pure force.

You know,

you'd expect sort of 20 substitutes on and to run on and try and separate players and stuff like that.

It could get quite, you know, physical

on the touchline.

It was very, you know, it's very strange to see these things in the Premier League in general.

You expect some more discussions of cute tactical fouls now.

The pure physicality ones where you're never going to get away with it, it's quite odd.

And you know, John McGinn's not that type of player, obviously, we have to say that.

But yeah, it was a pretty horrible foul, just pure force, like no

real knowledge of where the ball was at the time, really.

He was very late, very frustrated from something or other, I guess.

And he's going to to take his punishment of a free-match ban, and forever, this will be brought up for the next time he makes a tackle because then he will be that sort of player from for every single game for the rest of his career.

When it's a bit 50-50, we think, oh, he has got a bit of malice in him, hasn't he?

Oh, John,

he's a dirty player now.

But yeah, it's completely ruined the game for Villa.

And they're looking very tired and struggling, possibly, with the dealings of

Thursday night, Sunday football, where Spurs, they look very, very much happy to deal with the extra space and have the extra energy.

I've never seen a team have such an overload in the final third constantly.

However, many players are back for the opposition, Spurs seem to have more.

It's quite impressive.

A very noble version of football from Ange.

So, yeah, the Spurs look like they might take the momentum.

And

they're getting the players back and not suffering suspensions for silly tackles.

We're told the Doku High boot on Macalester wasn't given because Varr decided it was an unavoidable coming together.

I would say McGinn and a doggy was quite avoidable as coming together as gold.

One issue for Spurs is Van der Venn's injury because he is so,

he's been just one of the players of the season, I think.

I think he's such a, I mean, he's just so fast, but composed as well.

What salon have you made of Ange?

Because he is a, he is a, a lot's been made that he is a boyhood Liverpool fan.

Perhaps it's come a bit early, but you you know, you're sort of surveying, I presume, just checking

how near Jabbi Alonso is to Munich at every any given moment.

But what have you made of Post Docogries' impact on the Premier League?

I'm actually not in Camp Alonso, it's too early for Alonzo.

I want Thomas Frank for a couple of years and then we get Alonso in.

That's my big call on it.

What do I make of Ange?

I love any manager in men's football who is able to sort of harness the social and emotional side of the game and marry it with tactical brilliance.

And when I think Ange has that in him, and I think he has that potential, I don't think he has it as consistently as Klopp.

And I think also a lot of Klopp's

technical, tactical stuff, I think, is also about the team around him.

And I think I don't know much about who's around Ange, right?

Who are the people that you know he goes to are absolute specialists on all different parts of the pitch.

But as a figurehead and someone who can galvanise and understands the kind of yeah, the emotional side of the game and the sort of arm around the shoulder style management,

I love it.

And I think he's a brilliant addition to the Prem.

I think Spurs, with Van der Vendt going out, it really does impact how And likes to play, right?

He's so important for them being able to play a high line and to do that press that I think broke down Villa.

So we'll see how they get on without him because it wasn't great when they lost him earlier in the season, and that felt like a bit of a tipping point for them.

So, yeah, we will see.

I think I want Spurs under Ange to do well because I really do like the guy.

Don't you think it's strange, Shalon, that more managers aren't able to harness what is really, I mean, maybe I'm oversimplifying it, just saying, you know, we love football because we love it and, you know, fans matter and the players matter and we all matter.

And it's, you know, Klopp has it in abundance.

I'm not sure Pep does.

So you don't necessarily need to have it.

But it does seem like an obvious thing to, a card to play because because it means everybody likes you.

100%.

I think this is where the marginal gains are now.

I think you can have some of the best tactical minds in football execute, getting players to execute a plan.

But where I think the things are to be gained, and I think you see it in Klopp, you see it in And, you see it in Southgate, you see it in Serena Viegman, is the one-to-one relational and the group like relational dynamic stuff, which is something I'm fascinated by.

But I also think if you can get a club with its everything around that that club, whether it's players, fans, staff, everything, the city, if you can get that firing in sort of this beautiful concoction of we're all working towards the same thing and everyone here matters and is valued and as the manager you can make everyone feel that I think you just get these yards ahead of people that you know you can as well as you're having to match it with how you play play football and the innovations that you bring into the game but I do think that is where you know the Sean Deiches of this world or you know these they don't have that yet and they play they don't take in that into account and then they just kind of have one less tool in the toolbox

speaking of marshall games and of sean dice as well let's go to old trafford for manchester united to uh everton nil um everton became the fifth side in six premier league games to have at least 20 shots against manchester united which says i guess barry that

Manchester United still aren't very good and Everton cannot score goals, which are things that we knew already before this game.

Yeah, Manchester United didn't need to be at, or weren't at anywhere near their best in this game, and they didn't need to be.

They won it quite comfortably because Everton gifted them two penalties with just dumb challenges, really dumb challenges on Alejandro Garnacho by Tsarkowski and

Ben Godfrey.

Uh,

Everton had chances to score, but Everton being Everton, they didn't take them because they're just incapable of scoring at the moment.

Their two strikers are both misfiring.

Dominic Alvert Loon hasn't scored in 21 or 22 games, I think.

Beto

isn't any more.

Well, he's slightly more prolific.

I think he's got two Premier League goals this season, maybe three.

And

Dwight McNeil missed a couple.

Decoura missed one.

Lewis Dobbin missed a fairly presentable chance.

So

United were quite bad in patches of this game.

Casemiro could not hang on to the ball.

I think he gave it away 17 times.

And

United were very charitable in terms of letting Everton have the ball, courtesy of sloppy passes and whatnot.

They had 23 chances.

and no goals.

So

a comfortable win for Manu and any other team you would imagine would have given them far more problems.

Are you saying Dobbin is a bit of a donkey, Barry?

Isn't Dobbin traditionally a horse rather than a donkey?

A mule, but you know, like I'm off to Cheltenham footballing weekends.

It is critical, I know, the difference between a horse and a donkey.

I suspect if I have any bets, I'll be putting my money on donkeys, but

I just wanted to try it and see how it went with my Dobbin the Mule.

Wasn't that a kids' show in like the 60s?

I don't know.

Anyway, Will, to the present, I know English is not Ten Hog's first language.

And so you've always got to be careful when, you know, criticizing

somebody who is in that position.

But like after every game now, Ten Hag says,

we were great.

And then Bruno Fernandez comes out and goes, I'm not sure we were that great today.

And like eventually, you're waiting for Ten Hog to go, look, we could be a bit better.

I just really sense that he has gone this summer.

It's interesting talking about personality of managers and stuff.

And Ten Hag has not particularly shown a particularly interesting character, I'd say.

And I'd suspect Sir Jim, knowing roughly what he likes in his staff, he wants a bit more from his managers, a bit more zing, a bit of, you know, etc.

It is tricky for Ten Hagen, not his first language, but as someone sits in his press conferences a lot and speaks to him, it can be quite arduous at times.

And he's, you know, he's quite honest generally about other things.

But yeah, United's performances is never one that he can be too open about.

It's desperate to say they're making progress when, honestly, I don't think they are.

You look at Saturday and they won it

in the two boxes

thanks to the Academy with Alejandro Garnacho and plucky young youngster graduated from the Academy in about 2010,

Johnny Evans.

So, you know,

it's really,

it's not exactly

enthusiastic football to watch at times.

They were all right in the final third.

They were pretty awful in midfield, and they just about got over it at the back.

And they've run two, they toured from two penalties, and don't think Pickford had to do much else.

He saved a free kick.

Made a decent save from a Fernandez free kick, yeah.

Dobbing the horse and muffing the mule, I'm reliably and reliably told.

So it didn't work on on any level, my

Dobbin the donkey joke.

That result means Everton is 16th.

Bottom of the table looks like this.

Shefford United 14 from 28.

Birdley 14 from 28.

Luton 21 from 27.

Forrest 24 from 28.

Everton 25 from 28.

Obviously, Forest and Everton may still be docked more points.

Brentford 26 from 28, and Palace 29 from 28.

Palace

drew, Palace and Luton drew one apiece.

That injury time, last

kick, brackets, head of the game from Corley Woodrow.

Sit on, how did Luton get anything from this game?

I feel like Palace should have been 20-nil up by the time Luton scored.

Palace can't hold on to a win, and Luton can smell blood in the last five minutes of a game and get a result.

And that is just the perfect coming together for me as someone who wants Luton to do well, not get relegated.

Although I'm very torn because I've been watching a lot of Palace recently and going home and away with them, and it is so so much fun.

But I just think, you know, I grew up in Luton playing for Luton Town as a child.

So for me, they are, they have to stay up, but they are such a

cliche, isn't it?

But the whole never say die, when they know, they do not give up till that last minute.

But it's almost like the game plan now.

It's like, right, when you have that confidence and you've done it multiple times, it's like we will get something from this game in the last

few minutes.

Palace,

there was the the stat around

if they've conceded 18 goals from the 80th minute onwards, which

I think a lot of that's down to kind of training sessions.

Well, what I hear is training sessions not being particularly intense enough under Hodgson.

But there's also this stat, which also has the 18 in which they've given up 18 points from a winning position and they would be fourth if they hadn't given up those points.

Which, when this was a topic of conversation on our team bus yesterday, someone did say, well, that's like if my nana had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

You can't say that.

It doesn't make sense.

But I think, you know, Palace just cannot hold on and they need to

look into that and work out those last 30 seconds of a game, just get the ball out.

Just get it out.

Yeah.

How come you're going to see Palace home in a way?

Well, my friend works at the club and I've just started going with her and it is so much honestly some of the best fans in the Premier League, I think.

They are beautiful people to spend time with.

And a lot of the songs are the same as Duluth songs.

Right, it's easy.

I mean, of all the sides, Barry, Crystal Palace should know that Andros Townsend might

want his left foot and stick the ball in the box.

Yeah, it was a great cross.

I don't think it was, well, it wasn't as good as Papisaris.

I've got to say it probably was, but yeah.

Different skills, I guess.

But yeah, the way he was allowed to chop inside and send in the cross was

just criminal.

They are familiar with Andross's work at Selhurst Park.

But hats off to Luton for hanging in there in the face of what should have been a slaughter, really.

Palace missed so many chances.

Harking back to what Salon was saying there, wasn't there some time years ago where someone arrived at the conclusion that if games only lasted 80 minutes, I think it was Fulham maybe,

would have been under Laurie Sanchez, would have been

runaway leaders of the Premier League.

And Laurie Sanchez kept promoting this theory, and someone sort of took him to us.

But the thing is, though,

games are actually 90 minutes.

So, you know, that's perhaps more what you should be focusing on.

But,

yeah,

good point, great point for Luton.

Yeah, Collie Woodrow's second ever Premier League goal.

The first was a decade ago also against Crystal Palace so you know Salon if you are still going home in a way in 2034 look out for his next goal when he's 39 years old

Brighton beat Nottingham Forest 1-0 I mean Brighton were smashed by Roma Will on Thursday night

and a really in a not in a good moment I think is the phrase and you could see like the end of this game they celebrated like they had you know the Goldstone ground had just been saved like it really was of epic celebrations from Roberto's Deserbian friends.

Yeah, I think Deserby looks, it's been quite frustrated in recent weeks.

You know, he made some comments about transfers and whatnot.

After January, the team has struggled to perform.

It was a very undeserby-like performance yesterday, really sort of grinding it out against, let's be honest, not a top-notch Forest team, you know, needing an own goal to get it.

And Forest had a very good chance to equalise.

Brighton was slightly lucky to keep 11 players on the the pitch.

But yeah, so it's a big result, especially after such a fresh in Europe, and that's ended their European campaign.

They're not coming back from that this week, let's be honest.

So yeah, they need to sort of regroup.

And the best way to do that is by picking up wins.

And, you know, we've done that by hook or by crook at the weekend.

And yeah, Forrest,

apart from Forrest hilarious moaning that the own goal shouldn't count because their goalkeeper missed the ball because, I don't know, a ghost had pushed him.

I don't know.

But yeah.

I mean they should be used to Nottingham Forest keepers that's like the third Nottingham Forest Keeper who just misses the ball as a sort of matter of having

recruitment in the goalkeeping department at Forest has underwhelmed this season that's if only their manager used to have been a goalkeeper yeah well he really he really likes cells he really pushed for sales but yeah Turner

and the other goalkeeper signed in the summer were really strange decisions for him.

I think the goalkeeping coach.

He's got a few questions.

Have you all forgotten who the other keeper was?

Who is he?

No, but he's got a very long name, and I can't remember how to pronounce it.

Oh, yes.

The Greek lad.

The Greek lad.

No, it's the one that people think sounds like Shakademus and Pliers.

Yeah.

Vlacademos.

Vlacademus.

That's it.

Vlacademos.

I exactly remember who he is.

Give Wayne Hennessy a go.

I can remember his name.

He's the fourth choice.

But yeah, so.

Where were we?

Forrest can't sign goalkeepers.

That's bad.

And look, Nuno was upset.

They didn't wheel out Mark Clattenberg.

So Nuno had to say, Moda went through Nico Williams, I think, didn't he?

And I think that should have been a red baz, shouldn't it?

I mean, Nuno says it's a red card.

It's a red card.

It's week after week.

What's going on?

Someone wants to put us down.

Someone tell me it's not a red card.

Someone tell me I'm being stupid.

Maybe Mark Clattenberg was just out of shot and he was talking to Mark Clattenberg.

I'm just being honest.

But I think he had a point, didn't he?

Yeah, it should have been a red card, absolutely.

Yes, it should have been a red card.

Thank you so much.

And that'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll do the rest of the Premier League.

Hi Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here, too.

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Coach, the energy out there felt different.

What changed for the team today?

It was the new game day scratches from the California Lottery.

Play is everything.

Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Shefford United are winning 2-0 salon at Bournemouth.

But there's only one place you can start with this game, and that is Dominic Solanke's penalty.

How brilliant was that?

Oh, I felt for him so much.

That is, it's always you can tell as well when you see a player's reaction afterwards, and they sort of like blame the ground, the air, the fans, everything around them that's kind of like not their fault that he didn't plant his foot correctly and then slipped.

But he also just had a bit of a calamitous like game.

He had the slip.

Then, for the second goal, I think the keeper punches it onto Solanke's head which then goes in or

results in a goal and then he gets a goal but then it's ruled off for handball it really wasn't wasn't his day I think bad things come in threes and and Solanke really felt that it was it was very much a throwback to Dominic Solanke of old when nothing ever seemed to go right for him and this is his you know this is the best season of his career things like that are supposed to happen to the current iteration of Dominic Solanke I suppose the point is if you can get get them all out of the way in one game, you can have 37 really good games, and he has been really good.

Sheffield United were good in this game, I thought, Baz.

Chris Wilder said on Match of the Day Afterwards, there's a narrative, isn't there?

There's a narrative of Sheffield United being the worst team in the world.

Burnley, we're all waiting for them to kick in, and everything happens with them.

And Luton are going for Europe.

That seems to be the narrative.

I mean,

Sheffield United are also not very good, I would say, Barry.

I mean, that's also like, I don't think that's a narrative.

I think that's quite a weird thing for a manager who's just seen his team get thumped five nil, six nil repeatedly to come out and say just because they've got a draw away at Bournemouth.

Sheffield and United are a really bad team.

They're almost certainly going to go down.

They deserve to go down.

I'm not sure what exactly he's driving at there.

It's not the first weird post-match comedy he's come out with, obviously, in recent times.

But

you can't say he's a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.

That's not fair to Chris Marler, is it?

Yeah, I really don't know what

you know.

Shefford United are where they are because they aren't very good and they deserve to be where they are.

It's not like they've had a run of horrendous bad luck or terrible decisions go against them that have cost them points.

They get

well beaten with monotonous regularity, so it's no surprise they're at the bottom of the table.

And

if

right, they showed signs of life here, but those signs of life are long overdue because they haven't improved since he's taken over.

I would say they've got markedly worse.

But the other Chris Wilder comment was that it looked like a war zone out there.

So many of my players went down with cramp.

I don't want to make light of war.

I don't think cramp's an issue there, Christopher.

I mean, cramp is bad.

I got it.

I get it in both legs.

Can't save it, Private Ryan.

Oh, God, the cramp was terrible, wasn't it?

Oh, no wonder it took so long to jog and find him.

But yeah, yeah, Wilder's making a lot of excuses, but yeah, they're not very good and they're going down.

I remember when Dwayne Chambers

ran the 100 meters in like, I don't know, 10.8.

And after we said, yeah, I got cramp in one leg, so I couldn't really push it.

And you're like, God, imagine doing 100 meters with cramp and finishing it, let alone, you know,

I don't know which iteration of Dwayne Chambers it was, but that would be quite hard.

How do you get cramp in the space of 10 seconds?

No idea.

To the London Stadium, West Ham 2 Burnley 2.

What an impact Danny Ings had on this game, Sidoni.

Only came on in the 82nd minute, and the whole game was about him.

He did.

It was a brilliant finish for the equaliser.

And obviously, he had his one.

He scored two goals in that very short space of time.

Obviously, one was ruled off for offside, but the one he actually got was

a classic strikers finish, wasn't it?

The way he took it down, swiveled, and hit it.

It's good to see that Dale Ings has still got it.

He can still do those things when you need him to.

And maybe he can only do them for 10 minutes in a game, and maybe that's just his, you know, his future.

But it's nice to see that he's still got it.

Yeah, but I mean, I guess no one knows because he's barely played under David Moyes.

He's also hit the bar in injury time, didn't he?

And

I don't know.

I mean, maybe that should change things.

I think West Ham fans, Barry, are

not happy at the moment.

They lost to Freiburg in a game that was incredibly boring and sort of really epitomised what David Moyes would do in an away game in Europe.

And if you're not beating Burnley at home, even though he will come out afterwards, I'm sure, and say, I won us a trophy,

where are they?

Probably seventh still.

All these things are true and are good for West Ham.

Yeah, he was able after this game to come out and say they should have had a penalty, which I think they should.

Sanderberg, that's not a handball.

I don't know what is, but well, nobody knows what a handball is anymore, but that seemed a particularly weird decision when he headed the ball into his own arms, which were in front of his face.

As far as I can tell, there's a certain section of West Ham fans who want Moyes out because they're sick of watching this unattractive football.

And when you're ceding possession to Burnley and going, you have the ball, Burnley, despite being the second second worst team in the league and despite being away from home.

That's not going to change anyone's mind in the stand who already has their mind made up about Moyes.

Their first half performance was terrible.

They got a goal back very soon after the break due to a catalogue of defensive errors from Burnley.

And then it

was all West Ham from then on, really.

They probably should have won the game, but didn't.

And

certainly nothing, the West Ham fans who want Moyes out.

And I think they're growing in numbers.

Nothing they saw there yesterday will change their minds.

I don't think anyone's going to change their minds about him.

Yeah.

It's a culture war, isn't it?

What side of the culture war?

John Ronson will make a podcast about David Moyes.

We'll all know where we stand on the culture war.

Hats off to David Fafana, who's scored an absolutely brilliant goal.

Apparently, he retweeted it at half-time.

Presumably someone else is on his account.

Or maybe the Burnley players all get one minute to retweet their favourite thing from the first half.

They just haven't had much opportunity to do it this season.

At Molyneux, Wolves beat Fulham 2-1.

I mean,

I thought Will Fulham could have been out of sight before Wolves scored in this game, but Wolves are up to eighth, one point behind West Ham.

They could get into Europe, and

we should let Gary O'Neill do those slightly awkward fist pumps and applaud them.

Yeah,

especially considering Kunya's out, Neto injured.

Probably

leads to Greg.

Kwang's out as well.

There's not much left in the final, third at Wolves.

It's a good job that the left back and a known goal can see them through.

Obviously, Ike Nouri for the first one, then Somedo

hit the one that went in off Kearney.

But yeah, O'Neal's been transformative at Wolves, especially through the hands he's been dealt.

You come in four days before the start of the season, you have to sell all your best players nunes goes neves went as well so this is it's quite a tricky one to come into and he's you know from the first game they've been incredible really energized you know i was there um the other week and against chef united and that was a pretty bad performance but they still ground it out and it's always good when you're not performing at your best to be able to grind it out and when you haven't got much of a forward line winning games is even better and i think o'neal said after after the win that was the best one for various reasons under him.

And there have been some pretty decent ones.

So it shows that things are going well.

And if their financial situation is helped by finishing

in the top ten, he might be able to have an impact next summer by signing at least one player that could help.

But he's probably going to lose Neto and then they're back at square one who he can enjoy trying to turn it around again.

Aberdeen have parted company with Neil Warnock.

He has stepped aside after they won the Scottish Cup quarterfinal.

He was there for 34 days.

I was honoured to lead Aberdeen for a short period to help Dave and the board.

I presume Dave is the chairman of Aberdeen,

get themselves into a position where they could get closer to making a permanent appointment.

It goes without saying that I had hoped I could have collected a few more league wins along the way.

I'm also delighted to have helped the club into the Scottish Cup semi-final.

I hope they can go on and lift the trophy.

Yeah, so they beat Kilmarnock 3-1 into the semi-finals.

Callum says, do any of the panellists have something in their fridge that's been there longer than Valerian Ishmael's Watford tenure?

He was there for 305 days, so I hope not.

Um,

yeah, there's probably a jar of something near the back, isn't there?

Um, uh, Luke says, With Tom Cleverly announced as Watford's new interim head coach, how old do the panel feel?

Yeah, that is I'm pretty sure I have a jar of cranberry sauce somewhere that

has

served longer than any manager in the 92.

You're going to say, is older than Tom Cleverley, then

it was there before Herbert Chapman got the Arsenal job.

Marley, if you would like to check your fridges to see if you have anything that's been there longer than Valerian Ismail, please do.

Football Weekly at theguardian.com.

The stat of the day from the journalist Will Robinson says there have been more Watford managers since 2019 than there have been Dalai Lamas since 1589, which I think is a brilliant statistic, isn't it?

Charlie says, you can't help but feel happy for Neil Harris at Millwall, can you?

Another win for them as they look to submit their position in the championship.

Good luck to you, Neil.

I'm now part of the Gary Monk Revolution.

I won all draw at home to Northampton.

Every point counts.

And Paul says, whatever happened to Tapwater?

Yeah, this was Neville Southall, who is brilliant on social media.

He sometimes gives his

Twitter handle to someone else.

So I don't know if someone was on it or this was Neville saying, whatever happened to Tapwater?

People only drink water now if it comes from a a lake on Venus, transported by vegan sharks and sold by a yoga-teaching octopus.

You know, he shops at Waitrose, I guess.

Yeah,

that's true.

Is that tap water?

I've been sipping tap water throughout this part.

I'm looking forward to the next Things Fell Apart episode where John Ronson is in Neville Southall's living room about tap water.

Yeah, asking Neville about David Moyes and

where he stands on the whole situation.

Anyway, love to Big Nev, the greatest goalkeeper of all time, bar none.

And that'll do for today.

Thanks, Will.

Thanks, Max.

Thanks, Alon.

Good luck with the title challenge.

Oh, thank you.

Cheers, Baz.

Thank you.

Fibble Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

Champions League this week.

We'll be back on Wednesday.

This is The Guardian.