Klopp’s kids ride again and Manchester derby preview – Football Weekly Extra

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly FA Cup fifth round special.

And after we didn't praise Liverpool enough for fielding the youngsters on Monday, Klot fields even more of them in a 3-0 win over Southampton.

Perhaps you can win everything with kids.

One of Chelsea's own, Conor Gallagher, gives them a last-minute winner over Leeds in a topsy-turvy game at Stamford Bridge.

Erling Harland is just one goal away from getting the Viddy printer treatment with five at Luton.

Newcastle get another tough draw after winning on pens at Blackburn and Wolves, Leicester and Manchester United all make it through.

We'll do a Premier League preview, including the Manchester Derby.

After all the vasectomies, we have a brand new operation for pod convalescence.

There's your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Nada Manuho, welcome.

Hello, sir.

Hello, Barry Glendenning.

Hi, Max.

And hello, John Bruin.

Hi, Max.

Paul says, will Klopp rest his kids on Saturday to give the likes of Salah, McAllister, and Robertson a chance?

Kendra says, what's worse, losing to Academy players in a final or losing to Academy players in a last 16 tie?

Yeah, Liverpool 3, Southampton 0.

The kids again, Lewis Kumas on his senior debut.

Jaden Dan's got twice.

Three games he's played.

Two goals, one trophy.

James McConnell, Bobby Clark, Conor Bradley all started along with Gerald Quancher,

Cade Gordon, and Trey Naone came off the bench.

Naone's only 16 years old.

It's quite interesting, after the Carabao Cup final, we received, I think, some quite fair criticism for our coverage of the final, saying that we didn't give enough credit to Liverpool and paid too much attention to the narrative of Chelsea being bottle jobs and whether they were also young as well.

I'll just read one message from Dave, who is a friend of mine, who I used to work with at the homeless shelter.

I don't like to talk about my charity work, of course, but he said, God, you guys missed the magic of that.

That was a beautiful thing.

It's not about the money that Chelsea's players cost.

It's the experience of Quancer, Clark, McConnell, Dan's.

I believe Klopp when he says it's his greatest achievement.

The level of inexperience of top-level football we had on that pitch was ridiculous.

To have the better of extra time, McConnell had the most touches wild i'll leave you be say hi to jay uh who is mrs rushton um and i guess you know that is it if you're a liverpool fan this week has been magic seeing your own seeing kids from your academy deliver if you're a you know if you go week in week out it's almost nothing better in in football um nadam you were there so i i don't know and you you obviously are not guilty for monday's pod although we're a family so we're all we're all guilty if any of us are guilty but what do you i just wondered what you you know from your uh innocent standpoint, what do you make of it?

Innocent standpoint.

That's very generous of you, Max.

I think,

I don't know.

Like, going into the final on the weekend, when I was hearing people, well, Liverpool, people of a Liverpool persuasion talk about the final, they didn't sound too excited by it because of the amount of injuries that they had.

So I think the fact that they win it with the youngsters that go out there, you know, it does make them feel a huge sense of pride because for them, I guess they became the underdog within that piece.

And the youngsters getting a chance to come on and play and play well.

I think, not play well, but win the game.

I think that's the bit that's key because otherwise, your sort of perception of the game itself would have been a frustrating one because you'd say, Oh, what an opportunity if only we had everyone available.

So, it's worked out to be a great few days for them, barring the fact that Gravin Birch is injured.

And then, I think for the game yesterday as well, I think Andy Robertson was ill before the game, and that's I think maybe another one, which is why, say, Joe Gomez was playing centre midfield.

Things you never thought you'd see.

Yeah, and even that game yesterday,

there were spells where you you know, Southampton were playing pretty well.

I think Southampton will feel disappointed that they didn't score.

I think Kelleher was forced to make a couple of really big saves, but then they missed some opportunities as well.

But again,

it must be a great feeling to be a youngster at Liverpool, a great feeling to be a fan to watch youngsters winning at Liverpool.

But, you know, at some point, when, say...

say Liverpool play City in 10 days time, do you think anyone from that Liverpool sort of like fan base will be saying, I hope you play this guy.

I hope you play McConnell.

I hope you play Dans again.

You know, if you need them, great.

But they want to see those senior players back.

They know how important this stretch of the season is.

So

it's a great achievement for them to have been involved in the big games that they've just been involved in.

But I'm sure Klopp and everyone else would rather just have all their seniors back.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't disagree with that, but I just kind of think if you listen to, say, Jaden Dans after the game and you sort of think about why we all fell in love with football, that it is a magical, it is a magical thing.

I'm aware we've got one, you know, two Manchester correspondents whoa whoa whoa whoa in front of us but you know i

spent a year in sunderland i'll have you know but um okay yeah yeah no to be honest i like

in the final what i saw was the same thing i saw i think in the semis and in an fa cup tie earlier and the thing i like the most about what happened with liverpool is the fact that klops saw his senior players be tired and he said right well who's available you're coming on And I would think to myself, as a young player, to be able to have that vote of confidence from a manager is massive and as you step out there obviously you could be nervous excited or whatever but one thing you have is the trust of the manager i think it was in the league cup semi against fulham away fulham were pushing pushing pushing and then next thing here comes o'connell here comes this younger player to try and deal with that moment got moments which they've not experienced before and i think that's where a ton of credit deserves to go because he's it's not to say that he's like brave enough to do it but he just knows that like this is the moment these are the players available this is this is when we have to do it and i think a lot of managers, a lot of fans, probably myself included, would probably have been in a place where, say, if you ask yourself, would the manager of a team that you support, would he play, would he take off a senior player when there's a long time left to go in a game, if somebody's tired?

And if he did do that, would you champion the decision?

Or would you say, what's he doing here?

Has he lost his mind?

But I think for Klopp himself, he's backed them.

He's put them on.

The players are rewarding him right now.

And, you know, these are some of the best days of your life.

When you come through an academy and you're playing, you know, you're touching the field and you're winning.

You couldn't like Dan scoring two goals in top end yesterday.

Like,

he's the king of wherever he lives right now.

He's the king.

You can walk around and everyone knows exactly who he is.

And then for me, I saw him in the tunnel yesterday and I was thinking, I played against your dad, but I'm still in my 30s.

This is highly, highly confusing.

Yeah,

his dad was playing for Macclesfield last season.

So,

yeah.

So he outlasted you, I think.

Yeah, he relaxed.

Relax.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yeah,

so, but it's interesting that

they are made up of these descendants of 90s and 2000s players.

You know, Kumas scoring is excellent.

You know, I'm waiting for the son of Phil Stamp or someone, or, you know, you name a random 90s player player.

I mean, I've done that quite a lot, as a Sparry.

Yes, yeah, coming on scoring.

It's been, yeah, well, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

You know, antrabus on the mark for Liverpool.

It would be absolutely amazing.

But I suppose

one question you might ask is

the next man that comes in, what does he do with all these players?

And that's one question that, and it's one of those things, isn't it, that when new managers come into a club, what do they do with the young players?

Because they'll want dependable professionals around them because they've got to establish themselves quite quickly.

You can't,

you could take the David O'Leary model of 25 years ago or so, which is, you know, they're just babies.

But a club like Liverpool at the moment, you know, that's what pushing to be the best in Europe, pretty much,

is that acceptable?

I suppose

you got the Ferguson model a few years ago where they're ready, you chuck them all in together.

I'm not sure, having watched these last few games, they're all ready for that pitch battle that will be required of a season.

They've been highly useful to Jung Klopp at a point when they well he just ran out of players.

But the good thing is that

in English football where we did used to moan about not producing enough footballers we do seem to produce enough footballers.

The staff plan called EPPP is that what it's called?

That was the Elite Performance Player Plan,

which was set up about 15 years ago.

There are issues with it in the fact that essentially the Premier League can poach the better players from younger, from smaller clubs.

It is producing talent.

I suppose one issue is, again,

I don't want to be negative about these lads.

As Nedhim says, they're having the times of their lives, but there is a point where, will this be the high point?

Because

what we have found is that there's an incredible churn of players these days.

Players are

built or

hewn into Premier League League players.

What happens when they drop down the leagues?

That doesn't often go that well for players that drop from Premier League downwards.

The only thing to say is, of course, is the championship is a different standard these days.

But at the moment, if I was a Liverpool fan,

you were right, Max, to say this thing about how young players coming through is just about one of the most exciting things in football.

We should also remember that the best teams that have ever played

in football, AC Milan, of the late 80s, early 90s, Real Madrid, late 50s, the Real Madrid of 20 years ago,

let's say Manchester United, let's say Liverpool,

Celtic, of course, Celtic, all had that basis where they were from that club.

That they were the bedrock of that club.

It's something that's been lost a bit in recent years.

It's good to have it back.

It will be interesting to see whether those Liverpool players form the bedrock of the next Liverpool.

Having a new manager coming in might mean that that might not be the case or it could be the case.

Yeah, I was very disappointed, Max, at your capitulation in the face of the slightest

bit of protest from IRA Liverpool fans.

I think you should have doubled down.

I do think sometimes

if you work in football, you're looking at it in a slightly different way.

And I think...

That there is a matter, like whatever happens to these players, it's a really good point John makes.

But like at this moment, at this time, like yesterday, Dan scoring those goals, or with those players just being on the pitch and Liverpool winning an extra time,

those are sort of pretty astonishing moments.

You know, you're entitled as a fan to go, this is amazing.

Whether it's Klopp's greatest moment, whether any of these players go on to greatness, whether that kind of one of your own thing is just a sort of made-up thing in our minds or it's a real thing are all kind of totally fair questions.

But

I think we were right to make the point that Chelsea are also kids, but they're more experienced kids.

But I think maybe we should have said, hey, this was really great.

And I just think we

missed that bit.

But, you know, that's just.

But we're not Liverpool cheerleaders.

We're not a Liverpool podcast.

I mean, we were criticised for not talking about the game.

We did talk about the game.

We talked about how good it was, how close it was.

We were criticised for not cooing over Liverpool's kids.

We did coo over them.

Apparently, we just didn't coo over them enough.

We were criticised for pointing out that Chelsea also have young players

because apparently the fact they're more experienced young players nullifies the fact that they're young.

That cancels that out.

They're all actually 30 and not 22, 20, 21, whatever.

Jonathan Wilson has on numerous occasions on this podcast, and he made it this point again on Monday, because far be it from Wilson to repeat himself,

that

the environment Chelsea's young players have have been chucked into is detrimental to their development.

Whereas Liverpool's youngsters have been nurtured, admittedly, less experienced youngsters, they've been nurtured in this wonderful environment with Jürgen Klopp at the top.

It's very settled.

So

they know exactly what they have to do if they are called upon.

They're not really under any pressure to deliver because they're so young and inexperienced.

And they also happen to be quite good at football they're not just random street urchins that

you know stowed away on the liverpool team bus on its way down to wembley so um and then yeah we addressed the narrative around the game and i think that's fine because it was interesting the narrative around the game dary neville came out with this snappy sound bite and all the other journalists ran with it uh everyone else who was reporting on the game so yeah i thought that was interesting why shouldn't we talk about it but um you know if we weren't waving our pom-poms hard enough for liverpool that's grand it's that's not our job no

but i but i i still think you can say all of those things and still appreciate how magical that would be we did appreciate it i'm just appreciating it a bit more currently right well grand fine i mean i i thought their performance last night was hugely impressive they probably should have been several goals behind before they scored but they weren't and

looking at that team and their bench

just just players I'd never heard of young kids they brought on a 16 year old that's that's brilliant it really is good but I'm not a Liverpool fan it doesn't warm the cockles of my heart as much as it would

Liverpool's fans

heart cockles and and why should it oh yeah I was gonna say I think Being at the stadium, the Liverpool fans were really happy when it's Kumas that scored, you know, when it's Dans that scored.

You know, they would have been happy, obviously, if like a more senior player had done so, but they sort of have that connection because they think, you know, that youngster's living the dream.

You can see the joy that they have.

I think even after Dan scores his first goal, Harvey Elliott's pushing him to go and celebrate in front of the cop.

And then you forget that, like, Harvey Elliott's about 12 years old as well.

I think he's younger than Conor Bradley, isn't he?

Exactly, yeah.

But, you know,

this is what you'd want in a best case scenario if everyone was unavailable.

You want to see youngsters go out there, do well, and you know, celebrate them.

It's, it's, and obviously it's through force, but it's kind of like, do you remember when Arsene Wenger always used to field his youngsters in the cups and stuff back in the day, give them a chance to develop?

You know, you travel around.

You knew that's the team it was going to be.

If they won, it felt great.

Obviously, you knew like the first, first team could do it.

But it's

nice.

And also, just to, I don't think I'm having a go here, but

has this podcast ever had a discussion so big that...

Reporters then ask journalists questions about what was said on the podcast?

Or is that only reserved for Karager and Neville based on whatever they they say it's generally just them

what happens is they say something contentious and then rather than the reporter saying something contentious and getting grief from the manager he says oh well Gary Neville said these things have always happened but it's happened happens more regularly and as Barry says it's a it's an easy way to ask a question that's a little bit uncomfortable but I do think we're following a bit of that US model you know with it it's like

famous pundits said this about a player or manager, and they hit back.

You won't believe what Roy Keene said.

Annie Samways said.

Yeah, the sort of skip Bayless, you know, that becomes Roy Keen and all that type of thing.

And I do, I, I'm not sure this is a positive development as a journalist with zero profile.

Let's put it that way.

But, you know,

what does then happen is that journalists who don't have a profile can get a profile more quickly by just saying stupid shit, right?

And so, like, you absolutely

are, you know, do you have a soul?

You know, do you have self-awareness and a conscience?

Or do you just want to say stupid shit and get a million followers?

Sorry, do you?

Anyone in particularly mind there, Max?

No, no, absolutely not, Barry.

Train Only, born on the 30th of June, 2007.

Umbrella by Rihanna was number one.

I was so worried it was going to get to a stage where it was a song I hadn't heard of because I'm now too old to have heard of the songs.

Well, I haven't heard of that, but he was born four days before Liverpool signed Fernando Torres.

Sorry, just one last thing as well, because I was

sort of like building a foundation of disrespect almost, of disrespect just a little bit.

Do our opinions not matter?

Because on the website, it doesn't call us experts.

What does it say to be an expert?

I mean, whose opinion matters about anything?

I mean, really, that's sort of...

Without going through the story.

Well, that's really noistic.

I mean, nothing matters.

Yeah,

that's nothing.

Nothing should matter, but for some reason, what they say matters more than everyone else.

And as a consequence, we must either agree or discuss it, even though some of it is absolute nonsense.

I brought this up on talksport when the show before me and Barry is Henry Winter and Sean Custis.

And Henry says something, and then the news leads with it.

Henry Winter says this.

And I said, well, I've just said something else, but it's never Max says this, man, because

let me

my final point on this for today.

I was on a show probably a couple of months ago, and we were talking about, this is before Hoyland started scoring his goals.

And he said, this pundit, Pundit X, guys can work out for themselves.

They say this guy is not receiving enough service, they're not enough crosses into the box, he's not getting any chances, blah, blah, blah.

I was like, That's interesting.

Let me look into that.

So, United had put in the third most amount of crosses in the league, and the player and Hoyland had missed the third most amount of big chances in the season.

Like, it's weird.

How can there not be enough crosses, but they're doing the third most?

Yeah, and how's he not getting service, but he's missed the third most chances.

But I was like, oh, that's fair enough.

As long as this guy says it, he's an expert, so I guess that means it makes sense.

Yeah, let's just go fives.

There is this idea, isn't there, that certain

pundits' opinions are respected.

What's the level that

the pundits in the chair were like Arsen Wenger and Alex Ferguson, yeah, and they criticised you, would that hurt?

Because you're like, they're the absolute grandmasters of football, or Jose, or, you know, you name all of these Carlo or whoever.

Or is there a certain level where, say,

can we name it a a lower division David Pratt Pratt's about mine

protz or um

what's the guy that used to be at Leighton Orient uh oh Joey McMackino

he's really good but but like because Joey Mackinoff didn't have like you know the most started career would would would players respond to that would they just say yeah but you're Joey Mackinoff or I think it would ultimately depend on what they say and how they say it I think sometimes people can go very big on things like you mentioned as far as football goes the only time people really come together to take to consume something football-wise is when there's a game on so that puts you in the saturday sort of sunday realm so whatever gets discussed there is something that everyone has to sort of digest whether you like it or not and if uh say for if um if ferguson uh vengo whoever were criticizing you firstly that would be a bit weird because as managers they didn't really criticize their players outside anyway So they'd carry themselves differently.

But the fact is, you'd probably believe in it more because they've actually done the job of coaching individuals and have been successful with it.

So, some people that maybe tried to coach that didn't coach, like, there's a reason why I'm a pundit and not a manager because I'd probably be a crap manager.

So, if there's a history of being a crap manager and all of a sudden you know exactly how to set a team up to win any game of football anywhere, maybe, just maybe,

you're not actually a football expert, you're just really opinionated and have got the biggest microphone in football.

Yeah, but maybe I'm wrong.

I'm not sure.

Maybe.

Are you saying, Nadum, that if

Wenger and or say Sir Alex Ferguson was punditing a performance of yours, he would talk you up on TV and then afterwards call around to your house and give you the hairdryer and stroke teacups at you for being when you see managers and players come on.

The reason they try and say nothing is because they don't want to be disrespectful to anyone in a moment because they understand you did the best that you could in that time.

When you can analyze it afterwards, you can discuss it in a more reasoned manner.

But, you know, when all of a sudden you can be a lead co-com or you can be a co-comms guy and you say, this guy's no good, that guy's no good, what's he doing, blah, blah, blah.

It's like, okay, this is obviously very helpful for the world of football and those taking part in it.

Yeah, thank you very much.

I do love the idea.

I love the idea of the doorbell ringing and you know, you answer the door and it's Sir Alex Berkeley says, would you mind

if I come in?

and then get one of your teacups and then hurl it at you.

And you say, yes, by all means, come in.

Anyway, look,

we've got quite a few FA Cup games to go.

That was a very interesting conversation.

At least I thought it was.

You're welcome, obviously, to criticise us on that conversation.

Meekly, I'll meekly with the conversation.

Have you criticised us enough?

No, we're not yet anyway.

Can I just state for the record that what we say doesn't matter?

Liverpool still won the Caribou Cups title with some young players.

Nothing we say will take that trouble.

This is free.

We'll be back in a second.

Hi Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Chelsea 3 Leeds 2.

NHS manager says, are the pod breathing a sigh of relief that they don't have to go into bat again for a second time in four days as to why Chelsea aren't as bad as their league position and performances might suggest.

It was a strong Chelsea 11, and they were probably lucky to beat at Leeds, who did play really well.

Archie Gray was great, and Mateo Joseph getting those goals.

Conor Gallagher took his goal brilliantly, John.

And it's so interesting that these rumours keep on about him leaving because Chelsea have to balance the books, and he might go to Spurs of all places.

And, like, we're talking about all these Liverpool youngsters, we're not going to talk about them anymore, but there is the one player at Chelsea who sort of you feel embodies Chelsea-ness,

whether that matters or not.

And you feel it's almost like the most important person at the club at the moment or player, right?

He sort of sort of oozes that south-west London swagger, doesn't he?

You know, the, yeah, the, yeah, you could see a gold bracelet on a black polo neck and off his corner, swaggers into the night because,

and that's he's he's like a Chelsea player of the last five, six decades, isn't he?

And he's done really well for them, started scoring goals for them.

But yes, you're absolutely correct.

There is this rumor that because of Chelsea's continuing

financial issues, profits and sustainability, the type of thing that we've discussed with Everton and Nottingham Forest, that he, as a pure profit player, might have to be cashed out.

And I think that is

rather sad because you would expect that Conor Gallagher

in a previous era would have been given a new contract and been anointed the new

son of Dennis Wise or whatever it might be.

But the models of which certain people decide to build football clubs means that a player like that might have to be cashed out.

It will be very unpopular with Chelsea fans who aren't particularly well disposed towards the owners.

But players having to sell clubs having to sell players because of finances, not a new thing in football.

And you mentioned Archie Gray, who was fantastic, who you know, took apart a Chelsea midfield, which cost an awful lot of money.

There may come a time, sorry, Leeds fans, when Archie Gray has to be cashed in.

And this is the reality of football.

It's just that we didn't expect it to come to Chelsea.

And that's the problem.

Yeah,

it's a very, very good point.

And

are we 100% sure that he will go?

Is this what we're thinking?

No, not at all.

Not at all.

Given, I think he's had a good season.

And even though Chelsea have been very, very up and down, I think I've enjoyed watching him play to the point where he's not, he didn't prove me wrong as such, but I thought he was a good player.

But I understand his full value now.

I see the aggression that he has in there, and I think he offers a sort of slight difference in that midfield because they've obviously got really good footballers.

But the bite that he has, it's something which gets the crowd up.

And I think you need players like that.

Obviously, you'll be disappointed to have not, say, scored in the final, but this is someone, as we say, it's like a young player that gives everything that's got quality.

And it's what you want to build teams around.

So I hope for his sake, if he wants to stay there and the fans want him to stay there, I hope he can stay there because that is a big bonus.

But if these owners are being questioned now, the next thing Conor Gallagher walks out of the building, I'm pretty sure that might end up being one of the most toxic situations known to mankind.

Well, not to football kind anyway.

But yeah, I hope he stays because I think he's a really good player.

I mean, if it wasn't one of the most toxic

things to happen to mankind, perhaps you

didn't realize Conor Gallagher was that.

I know he's important, but

what did you make of the game, Baz?

I thought it was a good game.

I thought it kind of embodied or encapsulated Chelsea's season in the course of 90 minutes.

They were decent in spots.

They were dreadful in spots.

Ends of Fernandez, their World Cup winner, drifted in and out of the game.

You know, his pass for Gallagher's winner was sublime, but he doesn't contribute enough for me, Clive, given his status and

cost.

And I thought Leeds were probably unlucky not to take it extra time or not to to win, really.

They didn't feel the full-strength team.

They rested their front four.

Nanto, Bamford, Somerville were all on the bench.

Matthiel Joseph, who I must confess I'd never heard of, I believe this was his full debut.

He scored two good goals.

And

Leeds,

I don't think they'll be disappointed.

Promotion is their main focus, but they gave a very good account of themselves and probably would have gone home thinking, thinking oh we could have won that so kennelworth red loot and two manchester city six have five goals for earlier harland i mean we all know he's good nadam i tell you the one moment that i thought the most interesting of all the goals was the second goal i think it was he just sprinted off without even looking the broyno got the ball but he didn't look for where the pass was going he wasn't he had just gone just running towards the goal and then the ball just appears at his feet and i don't i don't see that too often even at that level of football yeah it's clearly you've not watched my highlights Max you know when I had the ball at the bank the forwards they'd go it's like well here he comes the big channel ball get yourself down there my friend yeah I know exactly what you're talking about and that's a sort of the connection that he has I think uh Harlan mentioned that after the game he's they've just got something whereby he knows if he makes the right run there's a very good chance that the ball will come and he's very De Bruyne's obviously part of that city system but the way that he looks to play those ball those balls in behind is very different to say some of the other city players they They all have the quality to potentially try and look for it, but Bruin has the sort of character and mentality to do it often.

If he sees the run, he'll play the pass.

In fact, he'll play the pass and then someone will start the run because they've seen the pass.

That's how good he is.

But the sort of little things make such a big difference.

And I think the timing of the past, the weight of the pass, and it's just like, well, there you go.

Erling, there you go.

You do your thing.

I've done mine.

It's a very special connection.

And yeah, for him to walk off with five goals.

I've actually, somehow, I was at the game where he scored five against Leipzig last year, and to see this one again, it was just

weird because it almost felt normal, which should never be the case for any player ever, in my opinion.

Yeah, and it felt normal, even though he hasn't actually sort of been hitting the, I mean, he's probably scored 100 goals this season, but you know, he and City have been have sort of been

stuttering

in their terms, John, a little bit recently.

And you sort of sense this victory because Luton pushed them a couple of times, you're like, oh, this could be exciting.

And then they, you know, maybe this was the moment.

Yeah, well, Luton are the team that we and I, especially, see, as that's an old fighting team, and they got back into it with Jordan Clark.

This first goal was very, very good.

The second one was

good, it was really good as well.

But, uh, well, what did this remind me of?

Um, yeah, I uh, I live in fashionable East London, as you know, Max, and uh,

there's a lot of gentrification going on, and watching Haaland just reminds me of the steamrollers and trucks that arrive every morning at about 7.45 and just roll.

And they've been laying the Columbia Road the other day.

It just reminds me of that.

I've just like rolling over and just flattening everything in sight and just everyone having to get out of the way.

There's not been a player like him that I can remember.

I'm trying to think of it.

There must be, you know, footage somewhere of some Swedish team in the 50s where, I don't know, Niels Liedholm, he's probably a bit more skillful player than that, sorry, Jonathan,

might just, you know, just run through and destroy people.

Even, you know, the original Ronaldo was a bit more

sylph-like, wasn't he, when he destroyed.

But Haaland is such a phenomenon, and you just wonder

where it ends.

Presumably, it ends with records, goals.

Presumably, it ends at, I'm sorry to say this city, at Real Madrid or somewhere like that.

But

when he goes into motion like that, you just think,

wow,

he's extraterrestrial.

He's a guy from another sport.

It's just unbelievable.

He reminds me a bit, and I don't know if this is a ludicrous comparison because it was a very, very long time ago.

A bit like Alan McInally,

Scottish striker, our old Pal Max from Talksworth Towers.

Yeah, when he used to seem seem to score the same goal over and over again for Aston Villa, where he was just

played through, barrage the defender off the ball and then smacked it past the goalkeeper.

Yeah, Les Ferdinand had it.

Les had a bit of that, didn't he?

You know, just powering through and putting it in the bottom corner.

I think for this game as well, I think the way Luton tried to play in terms of going man-to-man around the back wasn't really that good.

Obviously, it can work in other games and so on, but speaking with with some of the city people after the game, they were saying that they thought Lutin were going to do that.

And they set up in a way to sort of take advantage of that.

And that's why a lot of the time, I think it was Mengi, it was just 1v1 with Haaland on the halfway line.

And he's doing, listen, he's doing his job.

And I thought for the first maybe 10-15 minutes, I thought he was doing it pretty well.

I thought he was winning quite a lot of the duels.

And I said, oh, this is all right.

This is going to be a good battle.

But I think where Mengi and I say a couple of the others sort of got it wrong is that that's the plan, but you can still make adjustments within the game itself.

and Mengi wanted to show I believe like that he's strong that he can mix it with Haaland but then also the issue when you play against City with Haaland is not just Haaland it's the fact that now you've got De Bruyne here you've got Nunes here you've got Kovacic here you've got Grealish here you've got Doku here you've got balls from Kyle Walker here you can't just beat them by beating one and when you're standing on the halfway line with 10 15 yards of space either side of you and De Bruyne with the ball at his feet you know you can do as well as you can but

it's probably going to end up being the same goal as John was saying there, just happening over and over again.

Yeah, and they're bigger now, City.

Johnny Lou was right, in 2018, 19, they were the shortest

side in the Premier League, or the shortest side to ever win the league.

I'm not sure which one it was.

And now they're definitely not that, you know, because they've kind of replaced silky players with...

I'm going to say big oaths, because that is...

Just Roderick.

Rodri, the big oaf.

Look at the size of him.

It's disgraceful.

It reminds me

of...

I don't know if I've used this comparison before, but on the Amiga, there was a a computer game called Speedball 2, where you were sort of like robots.

And

it was basically sort of handball, but robots, but it was a great game.

But you could score a goal by being like slick passing, or you could just like literally beat the shit out of everyone and go in a straight line and knock everybody over and beat them up and beat them up and beat the goalkeeper up and just lob it in.

And like City can do both.

They're like brutal deluxe.

That's who they are.

Man United won one.

They're not in Forest.

Michael says, haven't Manchester United players had enough days off this season?

Well, they still won, John.

Alan Shearer hated having to watch this game.

He must have used the word frustrating about 100 times in commentary.

Dale Johnson, who we've quoted on

this podcast over the year, he and I spent about 20 years doing Alan Shearer's frustrating voice because he said it a lot in his early punditry career, and it's made a comeback, it would appear, in that performance.

Not a lot to say about this game, if that's okay.

United played like United do under 10 Hag, which is actually quite predictable.

They tried to score, didn't they, on some sort of free kick routine that Anthony smashed against?

It was nice.

But

the expression on Anthony's face was just laughing, like, aha, that nearly came off.

It's like, no, mate, you're supposed to put it in the net.

Like, it's not interminable wait for VAR.

You know, a goal that was compared by a friend of mine to the one that

Van Dijk was disallowed during the game that we're not allowed to mention anymore.

Yeah, lots of people making that comparison.

Varane was blocking a Nottingham Forest player.

And your friend Dale Johnson made the point, actually.

Look, just to cover off the inevitable comments on the Man United goal in comparison to the Liverpool offside, as explained on Sunday.

Blocking is only an offside event if it stops a player who can challenge.

Raphael Varan isn't blocking a player who could get involved.

It's worth, I mean, like,

if you want to watch social media at its worst, go to Dale Johnson's mentions.

Yeah, it must be frustrating

for Liverpool.

But yes, obviously, comparisons made.

You know,

the thing is with Ten Hark,

he'd come out, he'd done that Karrager

kiss off.

They win the game unconvincingly, and then they draw Liverpool in the next round.

He's not a lucky guy.

He's not a lucky manager.

Eric Tentost,

as Richard Keys called him.

I had not heard of that, but that is really good.

Yes.

Eric Tentoast.

It's a bit like, it's a bit like that headline, you know, the name's Bond, Jamez Rodriguez, or whatever it was in that newspaper.

So I wouldn't disagree with Keesy.

It feels like

we're getting towards the end now, don't we, really?

Yeah.

To be clear, you wouldn't disagree with Keesy on this or just just in general in just do you know what

do you know what he really calls it every time doesn't he um jamie jackson had an exclusive in the guardian saying a number of magistrates united players complained to coaching staff that they wanted sunday off after the 2-1 defeat by fulham on saturday despite um eric ten hog's squad usually going in after a match day for warm don't warm downs and video analysis the request caused surprise given the insipid display and it being part of the managers normal routine it was rejected by staff who reminded the players of their commitments with Ten Hag thought to be unaware.

Similar reports in November that Managers United players felt they'd been overworked.

It feels like, you know, there are limited things footballers can actually complain about.

And wanting a day off and not getting it, I guess, is one of them.

But it does seem a bit silly, Nadum.

Right.

Okay.

May I?

You see, this is, United, I feel like they're the only club where like a story like this comes out and it's never got a name attached to it, but then it always has to get discussed.

And the players are likely tired.

Yeah, they're likely that.

But if there's a leadership team that could potentially go and address that fact, there's also not going to be people in the leadership team that would also leak the story as well.

Because who comes out in a good light in regards to this story and other stories that exist within the club?

It's not the manager.

It's not the staff.

It's not the players.

Because the players get laughed at.

The manager gets laughed out of the room.

It's like, oh, so much dysfunction at United because they're all tired.

They're all overpaid and tired.

Why would they be tired?

I'm like, this is, this is,

especially after a defeat.

You know, one thing you cannot do is even say a word after a defeat, especially the one that happened the other day.

Imagine going, oh, sorry, I know we were terrible today, but I'll tell you what, we'll fix it.

Let's not work on it tomorrow.

Let's just chill.

Well, maybe just someone just said, you know, I'd love a day off.

Just like as you would, as people do, just sometimes say it, but they don't mean it.

Yeah, but who are they saying it to, though?

But who are they saying to the manager or like the flipping a reporter somewhere?

Oh, I just love a day off.

You know, this is what's key.

I feel like you sent a message to the wrong person there.

But again, it's it frustrates me because they're such a big club that it gets real traction.

And then we're like, well, who would it be?

Hmm.

Oh, I bet you it was Fernandez, wasn't it?

He's the one that's always tired.

He's not a good leader.

And we sort of run with it.

It's choose your own adventure.

But United Overreactions get right on my nipples.

Does Merden?

I don't think we would question Jamie's story.

It's obviously come from a good source within the club.

I think Nadin makes a point that if Ten Hag doesn't know, then there obviously is some issue going on there.

But yeah,

and Jamie's not going to reveal his sources anyway, because that's not how it works.

But I don't think we could ever say,

and let's have a look at the performances on the pitch, let's have a look at the many stories coming out of Manchester United, that that's been a happy camp for like the last year.

So it seems to be of a piece to me.

Yeah, but the my thing here, John, is in regards to it not being a happy camp, like if United were a happy camp and they were losing, it'd be one of the weirdest things things we'd be talking about.

You know,

that's the side of things that I goes missing.

And we're skipping around the pitch.

Another lap of honor.

We're just so happy together.

Just waiting, biding our time for consistency, but we're just delighted to just have everything going on.

Like a bunch of players, and you know, I'm not trying to say Jones doesn't know what we're talking about and whoever, but fine.

If a bunch of players are driven to be successful, when they're not being successful, you'll find the worst versions of them, especially when it's for a prolonged period of time.

Because realistically, you can't walk walk into a training ground on a Monday after losing on

a Sunday for them.

And then everyone will be like, oh, everything's with a hat on the side of your head.

And, you know.

Yeah, you know, the vibes.

Well, you turn the TV on, and who's being discussed at Sam?

Like, you can't be bouncing around.

Like, you almost have to have a miserable face.

Otherwise, it's like you're not taking it seriously.

You want to talk about, like, fear?

Fear is when you see something funny on social media, on your phone, on the bus back, on the way from a game which you've just lost.

If you laugh or smile, I can almost guarantee you're out of the team for the next week.

So, yeah, they can't be a happy camp because there's nothing to be happy about.

To Ewood Park, Black Man won Newcastle one.

Newcastle winning 4-3 on penalties.

It's worth noting, Barry, the draws that Newcastle have had in Cups, considering they didn't bother with the Cups for years, and now they're actually bothering.

And they get Dorman PSG Milan in the Champions League.

In the Carabao, they had City at home, who they beat them, United Away, who they beat, and then they eventually lost on penalties to Chelsea.

And then City again now in the FA Cup.

Yeah, that's a brutal draw.

That's The one they really didn't want, because they have all their hopes for this season pinned on the FA Cup.

And I think Eddie Howe, or one of the players, said, you know, if we get a good draw, there's no reason why we shouldn't go to Wembley.

Well, City away, good luck with that.

You know, they've beaten them already this season.

But I think Newcastle got away with one here.

They did not play well at all.

Blackburn with a bit more composure in front of goal or a less inspired performance from Martin Dubravka during the game and in the shootout.

They'd have been out, and it'll be Blackburn who'd be going off to the Etihad.

I think Newcastle just really seemed to be missing Joel Linton.

They're struggling to string more than a couple of passes together.

They're ponderous.

They

cough up possession too easily.

They don't seem to press like as anywhere near as ferociously as they used to.

They look vulnerable on the break, they concede way too many goals.

Yeah,

I don't know what's to be done about it really.

Eddie Howe,

there is a good lot of goodwill there for him for what happened last season when many people think they overachieved.

But one presumes that reservoir of goodwill is not bottomless.

And this was not a good performance.

They scrape through.

And if they play like that

against City, they'll get destroyed.

Well summed up.

All right, that'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll do the other games in the FA Cup fifth round and a Premier League preview.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here, too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Wolves into the quarterfinals as well.

They beat Brighton at 1-0, where they'll play Coventry, uh which is a as a certainly a derby of sorts isn't it uh um wolves cove a friend of mine who's a west brom fan said that no one in the midlands cares about coventry so coventry think all their these games against say birmingham or west brom or villa or whoever are are needle matches but but none of the other teams they all just think coventry are complete irrelevant i have no idea if that's true i just thought it was interesting haven't coventry got something going on with Leicester?

Did it really happen earlier this season?

It feels like it could be.

I mean, I'm not a Midlands expert.

But it's sort of on the road, sort of around the M1, MC.

So Coventry are just like, just somebody hate us, please.

And nobody does.

It's like the indifference we all have to Reading and Gillingham.

It's like, just somebody, please.

We would like to be hated.

Anyway, it was Lamina's goal in the second minute.

The highlight of this game was Brightonkeeper Luke Steele having quite a good chance in injury time.

It's Jason Steele.

Sorry.

Sorry, Jason Steele.

Sorry.

Yeah, he took the chance much like you would expect somebody who never finds himself in that position, you know, just rushed, no composure, but it was a wonderful opportunity to equalize.

Isn't this

where the goalie is sort of like trade-off depending on what the game is?

Like they have different perceptions.

I wonder if Deserby's thinking now, well, Vebrugan's going to be the better finisher.

So should they be in the time of need?

You know, you get Jason Steele off, maybe a couple of minutes to go, and Vebrugan's the one that goes forward when you need a goal.

Because Khalil Steele can't deal with the moment, can he?

You know what I mean?

I was at Brighton over the weekend and asked someone who would know

what's the deal with the goalkeepers.

You know, why does he play this one in that game?

And they just said, no one knows.

So that was a week.

I'd just like to pinpoint

Gary O'Neill's celebration post-match.

Son of Jürgen Klopp.

Gary O'Neill, who's done a fantastic job, by the way, we have to say that by the law.

He's got a swagger about him now, hasn't he?

Gary O'Neill.

Do you think that's a risk?

Do you think it's a risk?

Do you know, like, now he's now he's fist pumping, much like Neil Harris

did in those in those Cambridge United victories.

Yeah, it was quite fist pumpy, wasn't he?

Yeah, one, two, three.

But do you think that's a risk?

You know, fist pumps come before a fall, I think.

Fournemouth Nil Lester one.

Abdul Fatabu's winner.

Baz, you said you hadn't seen a kick of this game.

The only kick you needed to see was the winner from Abdul Fator.

It was a bit, so I'm going to say a bit Andros Townsend, a bit Ayan Robbin, you know, just cut inside.

You can see it now.

Everyone can see the goal, right?

Cut inside from the right, curled it in the top left-hand corner with his left foot.

But a good win for Leicester.

Obviously going well

as well in the championship.

Could get the double, couldn't they?

I was going to say, actually, Max, it's been interesting that the championship, which has been so good this season, has been measured against the Premier League this week, really.

And I think has acquitted itself pretty well.

You know, Southampton had the chances against Liverpool.

Leeds did very well at Chelsea.

And then obviously Leicester, you know, took apart a Bournemouth team, which, you know, if Leicester go into the Premier League, you'd expect them to be fighting over a similar part of the league.

So, yeah, I mean, it speaks to the better teams in the championship, I think.

Hopefully,

not all of them are going to struggle when they come up next season.

So, Wolves Wolves will play Kov

in that hate-filled, passionate one-way derby.

Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester, Manchester City, Newcastle.

Ties to be played March the 16th and 17th.

So look, a little bit of time for a Premier League preview, of which the Manchester Derby is the biggest game.

And I guess for City,

I was going to say, you know, Arsenal are away at Sheffield United.

That looks straightforward.

Liverpool go to Forest.

Not as straightforward, but still should win it.

So then the pressure is on City.

but really,

this also seems like quite a straightforward game, Nadam.

I think

form stays in the window.

Form stays in the room.

Say that again.

Ask the question.

Ask the question differently.

Massive game

feels better.

Form goes out the window, doesn't it, Nadam?

Biggest game of the season.

What is it?

12 cup finals.

Let's throw the cliches out there.

No, I understand what you're trying to go for, but it's a...

These Manchester Derbies, I've seen for years United be pretty good coming to the Etihad for some reason and it's not necessarily them playing well then playing badly just find a way to sort of get a result and it's a big um it's obviously a big game for for United it's a big game for city most city fans even though they've been successful like this derby will always matter I think from United if they can get to a point where city were irrelevant like they were in the late 90s probably early 90s as well then great but this is a significant game and you said form goes out the window or the form should matter well form wise last five games city have only had one more point than united that's interesting so how about that you know so even though united city have probably played better in that spell

the results are still very very similar so i think it's going to be a game where ten hag will try and have a plan i'm kind of selfishly delighted that they don't have a left back they've got loads of doubts all that stuff so we can find a more chaotic version of united i think if that's the case yes city should be able to win but they're also at the stage of the season where whether they're playing united playing shefford united or whoever they have to win this game because the next week as well, going to Anfield, which historically for City is not a great place to go when they want to try and get points.

Everton West Ham.

We saw, Barry, that

when Everton got the points deduction, they were galvanised briefly.

Do you believe getting some points back will be

galvanizing?

No, no, I wonder if it will be galvanising in a different way or yeah, un-galvanizing.

I don't know.

It's a tough one to call because West Ham are so unpredictable.

If they

play like they did against Brentford, they should comfortably beat Everton, but there's no absolutely no guarantee whatsoever they will play like that.

You know, Nadium's talking about wheeling out the clichés.

We don't know what kind of West Ham will turn up, and

you generally have a fair idea what kind of Everton are going to turn up.

So will that Everton be good enough to like scrape a 1-0

or a 2-1?

Don't know.

So

I'll sit in the fence, draw.

What's funny?

You say draw.

I saw Everson last week at Brighton

and

Sean Deish.

It had been a while since I'd seen him in the wild.

And I do mean the wild because I was sat not far behind him.

And

his voice,

when he's shouting at his players, manages to underpin the lowness of this voice, this sort of

guerrilla's mating call, or like, or like, you know, those sort of death metal records where they're sort of, it's just

it's just all I could hear throughout the game was just him

just

through all isn't there an Attenborough documentary on BBC One at the moment about this very subject, sorry, the ascent of the watch.

I've never, and the thing is, I've been to loads of games in which Dyke, but for some reason, it may be that the resonance of the Amex is very quiet Saturday afternoon.

But even when it got loud, you could still hear this.

And then he came in.

And to be fair to John Daish, he was a bit...

His voice had gone a bit.

But his

team are very, very frustrating to watch.

And because,

okay, it was against Brightney or a good team.

He was trying to slow down the play the whole time.

Him and Ian Wone and Steve Stone are doing this sort of revolving pantomime app with the fourth official and the referee.

And I wonder,

okay, they've got four points back.

I wonder if Everton played positive enough football to get themselves out of trouble because their approach to that game, a game they could have won because Brighton weren't really at it,

raised a few questions for me.

But yeah,

if you ever uh have the chance to see the Sean Dice gorilla mating call,

don't pass up the opportunity.

It's unique.

Is it the pyramid stage, or is it you know, is it one of the other ones?

You know, it's no, it's Mitch Moore Tusk Festival, Newcastle Saturday afternoon

in quadraphonic sound, you know, big can of energy drink at two in the afternoon.

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chef United Arsenal.

Um, I mean, presumably, it feels like, you know, Arsenal scores so many goals and they keep playing teams who are bad.

And then we come on and say, was that Arsenal good or was that Sheffield United bad?

So maybe Chef United would surprise all of us.

Forrest Liverpool, Simon says, if both Forrest and Everton were given a 12-point deduction as of today with the other FFP charges, Sheffield United would find themselves sandwiched between the two.

I'm unsure whether this would please Chris Wilder or send him into apoplectic fury, keep up the good fight.

Thank you.

A mention for Sutton United, who missed that penalty against Colchester, which led to Steve Morrison being quite rude to the BBC London reporter.

They scored a late penalty last night to beat Knotts County away.

A massive win for them.

And I watched his post-match interview with the club channel.

It was markedly different, I will say.

So Steve was very happy.

All our credit goes to Ali Maxwell of Not the Top 20 podcast, who sent this tweet saying, I just caught a high-slice defensive clearance with a massive meaty header on the full in the away end of Orient.

And I can't remember the last time I felt this level of adrenaline.

my whole body is fizzing every fan's dream to head one out of the crowd and barry i mean i you've seen it he he catches this header brilliantly doesn't he yeah uh thumping header back into play

and uh it took i had to watch it several times i didn't actually realize it was him

just because i wasn't reading his tweet properly but um

yes hats off to him well done ali uh dara says hi max barry producer joel and all um dara here long long-time listener, first time emailer, myself, and my good friend Wes.

I've been listening to your podcast religiously for many years now, having attended the live shows in Dublin.

Wes turns the ripe old age of 30 on March the 2nd.

And I know one of his main wishes would be to still have a terrific head of hair like Barry as he heads into his 30s.

In all seriousness, I know Wes would love nothing more than one of Barry's classic birthday wishes.

All the best, Dara.

So do your finest for Wes, please, Barry.

I wish Wes a happy birthday.

30 is when it all started to go downhill for me.

So I presume I'm not alone in that.

Start piling on weight where before you didn't.

You

start getting hangovers where before you didn't.

You're just tired all the time.

And

but, you know, you still you're not fifty, which I am, uh, whereas things are considerably worse.

And uh, I don't know how Wales is fixed folically, but

you know, I don't think having a full head of hair is that important.

It is important to me, obviously, because I have one.

Laura, finally, says, Dear Max and Barry, I thought I'd email you after hearing a few of your male listeners telling you about how you'd got them through their various vasectomies.

And by the sound of it, almost made the operations quite a laugh.

As you can imagine, I was intrigued when I first heard about this phenomenon, then realised you'd not actually become doctors, but had in fact provided a soothing distraction while the chaps were getting their tubes tied.

I didn't think any more about it other than to think you really are providing a pretty good service all around until last week.

I'm one of your female listeners.

I never miss an episode.

I must admit, my favourites are always when Barry's not off having a midlife crisis involving elephants and temples.

And I'm hoping to call upon your services if you don't mind.

On the 1st of March, I'm going into hospital to have a hysterectomy.

And apparently, I've got a six to eight week recovery period.

It's necessary because of quite bad problems I've been having for years.

So it's a good thing, although I'm not looking forward to the time after.

I live on my own.

I won't be able to drive or even lift stuff or bend for a few weeks, which will be interesting.

Luckily, I've got some really good friends who will help me out with things.

So I think I'll be fine.

And my lovely stepmum, Vanessa, is coming down from Anglesey to where I live in Somerset to stay with me for a bit and help out.

As well as having all the time I could ever need to watch telly and do minimal amounts of everything, I am, of course, looking forward to listening to you all on the pod.

And I'm totally relying on you to keep my recovery going.

I can't listen during the operation as it's general anesthetic and no pressure.

But Barry, this is not the time to go on holiday, get sick, or suddenly get poached by a rival.

There's very little danger of that.

but anyway, um, I need you to keep me sane.

Uh, please don't let me down.

Thank you so much to all of you for producing such an entertaining and genuinely lovely pod three times a week.

You all seem to be really lovely people, and from the sound of the other listeners who've written in before, you're truly appreciated for what you do.

I think entertaining people is often underestimated as a service.

And I just wanted you to know that in a funny way, I think of you as friends, and I really look forward to hearing your chat every week.

Thanks a lot for reading this.

And could Barry please possibly wish me good luck in his inimitable style just to send me on my way to recovery, not not to heaven.

Hopefully, love and best wishes to all of you, Laura.

So, Barry, off you go.

One more.

This is all, this is all, this is the only other performing monkey bit, and then you can go home.

All right.

Well, unfortunately, Laura, I will be on my annual

doing my annual week of penance at the Cheltenham Festival the week after next, so I won't be around for that.

I do apologize, but if you could, um,

uh, yeah, I mean, I can't really mockingly wish or sarcastically wish that her operation goes well, can I?

So I

can.

Yeah,

I wish you all the very best, Laura, and speedy recovery.

You could do, you know, you could say, you know, I hope you have a seven out of 10 hysterectomy.

I think you want a 10 out of 10.

I think, yeah, you think you've got to play it straight, Baz, to be fair.

Yeah,

jolly good.

Well, yeah, well, thank you for your email, Laura.

We appreciate it.

Wish you all the best best with the up and with your recovery.

And that'll do for today.

Thank you, Nadam.

Thank you very much.

Thanks, John.

Cheers, Max.

Thanks, Baz.

Thank you.

Before we go, just want to mention a brilliant new Guardian podcast that starts this week.

It's called Black Box.

It's about artificial intelligence.

So actually, it's about our relationship with AI, the ways in which it might help us, and the ways in which it's going to be very bad.

Each episode follows a different story from deep fakes to facial recognition.

We think it's the guide to AI you've been waiting for.

New episodes out every Monday and Thursday.

Subscribe to Black Box, wherever you get your podcasts.

Football Weekly was produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

This is The Guardian.