Arsenal back in title hunt, Southgate’s obsession with Henderson and more – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

And as I said on Thursday's pod, this weekend's fixed just didn't look too interesting and so it didn't prove.

Saturday saw the most Premier League goals on a single day.

41 in total across the weekend with a game still to go.

Arsenal back in the race.

Allison choosing the wrong time to turn into a hologram.

Newcastle and Luton play out a four-all classic.

Wolves hit for themselves at hapless £1 billion Chelsea.

Four for Brighton against Palace.

Surely that's enough for Roy now.

Man United look quite good.

Their kids all sitting on the advertising board having a nice time.

Villa hit five.

Is the mask slipping from Big Ange?

And there's a late comeback for Burnley.

All that plus Gareth Southgate's Jordan Henderson obsession, a non-league clarification, a new operation for a pod listener along.

Your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Week, Cleum.

On the panel today, Barry Glenn Denning, welcome.

Hi, Max.

Hello, Jacob Steinberg.

Hi, Max.

And hello, Troy Townsend, Lord, Sir Troy Townsend, Senior Senior.

We're honoured.

Hi, Max.

I'm honoured, not you're honoured.

This is my first time to see Troy since he got his MBE.

It's quite impressive.

Congratulations, Troy.

Thank you for not actually having a four lock, but tugging it anyway.

Thank you.

So the highest scoring round of fixtures ever is 44, and we've got Brentford City tonight with, you know, City can score quite a lot of goals.

Ivan Tony's back.

And as I said, Barry, the fixtures didn't look too interesting.

And I was completely wrong.

A brilliant weekend of football.

It was spectacular.

I mean, I'm not entirely sure City will score a hat full because we have to remember Brentford did beat them home and away last season, the only team to do so.

I have a feeling that won't happen tonight, but you never know.

Let's start the Emirates then.

Arsenal 3, Liverpool 1.

Brian says, how many times have Arsenal won the league this season?

But we'll get on to the celebration please later.

City Gunner says, which of Arsenal's 3.47 XG was your favourite and which of Liverpool's 0.1 was your favourite?

We should probably start, Jacob, with the key goal.

I mean, Martinelli, who was great, but I was just so delighted to see some real Sunday league defending in the best league in the world.

Yeah, it's been interesting with Liverpool this season because they look like at times like they're about to go on this remorseless charge and it's going to end with four trophies for Klopp.

And then there are other times where you feel like they're kind of slightly living on the edge.

I mean, even that game against Chelsea last week, they obviously could have scored about a six or seven.

Darwin hitting the woodwork four times, and yet they conceivably could have conceded two penalties as well.

And that second one potentially making it 3-2 and giving everything a different kind of feel.

So you kind of feel at times, are they more vulnerable than they're maybe making it look with the results that they've been putting together?

And then yesterday it comes through with Arsenal playing the tactics perfectly, getting through on the counter-attack over and over again, and just sort of spreading uncertainty and chaos with Martinelli, which he's been able to do against Liverpool quite a few times and it ends and culminates in that horrendous mix-up for the second goal.

You know, Van Dijk's obviously been a fantastic player, still is a fantastic player, but

if there is that question mark, it's probably since the injury just at times, if you can get running at him, maybe there'll be a mistake that will come.

Actually, you know, the one against Chelsea, who was

lucky not to concede

two penalties.

He was done on the Nkunku goal as well.

So maybe there's just a little bit of vulnerability there that might hurt them.

Obviously the goalkeeper coming out doesn't really help it as well.

And

yeah, and ends in the back of the net.

Yeah, it's quite an interesting choice, isn't it?

That Martinelli is better

against the better teams because they attack as well.

And so he has that space in behind.

So it's sort of that difficult...

Are you more sensible, even if you are as good as Liverpool, to play it slightly differently?

I don't know.

It was interesting yesterday because obviously Liverpool had lost, you know, young Connor Bradley in, you know, those horrible circumstances.

And it may have been a better, it would probably have been a better matchup against Connor Bradley, whose pace and defensive awareness would have got him back in certain circumstances, I think.

And Trent didn't look fit for me yesterday.

He didn't impact on the game, you know, as he trotted off after being taken off after about 55 minutes.

You could almost see that within him.

He just didn't look right.

And Martinelli exposed, you know, like Jacob said, it was great to see him back in form.

I think from the first minute, he got joy.

So he thought, yeah, this could be my day today.

And he exploited them as

well as what we've seen for a very, very long time in Martinelli.

So I'm not one that normally praises Arteta, but he got his tactics absolutely spot on for this one.

You know, they could have gone ahead a lot earlier, couldn't they, with that Saka missed header?

But they've done so well.

And even the recovery from the goal, I mean, you look at Salibra and you look at Van Dijk both of them are very good and very confident in the way that they their ability to deal with like little threats certain situations and both of them got caught out yesterday and it could have been a slightly different game Liverpool started the second half really well but then Arsenal you know again grabbed back the kind of the game by the neck and um deserved their victory what did you make of it bad i thought kai havitz had a good game i thought jorginho who's been quite on the on the fringes was really impressive as well.

Yeah, um, look, it's Liverpool's first defeat in 16 league games, only their second loss of the season, so no need to panic.

They were uncharacteristically poor, but I think they were uncharacteristically poor because Arsenal made them look uncharacteristically poor.

Arsenal sort of out Liverpooled them in so far as they were in terms of their pressing.

Odegaard and Havertz were sort of the first line of rabid dogs hunting down Liverpool players.

And then Jorginho and Rice behind them, I thought were just vastly, vastly superior to Gravenberg and Curtis Jones.

Yeah, I didn't think they played particularly well at all.

I think, as Troy said, Trent Alexander Arnold looked

probably understandably rusty after

a month, five or six weeks out.

And

they miss Sabozlai and obviously Mo Sala is a big loss for them so maybe that's catching up with them while it's a very good win for Arsenal and you could argue a good win for City as well because I think they'd be more worried about Liverpool than they are Arsenal I would be still slightly worried about the fact that Arsenal despite being so superior had to rely on a couple of handouts to get goals and they still look a bit toothless and I would be concerned about

But good for the title race, Jacob.

Yeah, I think it probably favours Manchester City.

Well, if they go and win tonight, then they're obviously two points off, game in hand.

And having done that, when people have been saying, oh, Manchester City, they're not the same as last season.

They're more vulnerable, defensively, not as good.

Erling Haaland, he's not there.

How are they going to cope without him?

And then you come out at the end of it, and they're just right there.

And it feels like we've been here before.

and it just feels like with de Bruyne coming back and just looking exceptional immediately and he's got a new haircut and everything that's very nice and you know

with Harlan to come back as well it just feels like the others are going to have to be so perfect to to hold them off I'm not sure as Barry says if Arsenal have the firepower to do that.

Still feels like there'll be games where they get frustrated and they don't get the space maybe that Liverpool gave them yesterday and we've seen that's been a problem for them.

And again, with Liverpool, I back them more than Arsenal, but I'm still not sure whether they have enough to hold off that

Manchester City.

And I think ultimately so much will come down to the game at Anfield though.

It's interesting because City under Pep, they haven't been in a three-way title race.

So you know, the previous two that they've been in has been just them and Liverpool winning every single week, and

obviously, City winning it by a point or goal difference.

This time, obviously, they've got that added uncertainty of Arsenal being there as well.

And so it adds a little bit more jeopardy, and it maybe creates a little bit more uncertainty just for them that, you know, there's not just Liverpool that they have to think about and be perfect against, that there's another one there as well.

Much has been made of Arsenal's sort of lack of a clinical finisher.

And I wonder if you look at Villa and Ollie Watkins and the way he's explained that

how much Unai Emery telling him not to stray into wide areas just play within the width of the penalty area those two lines whether you're in the penalty area or outside it he says that's you know really helped his game and and his numbers speak for themselves and I just wonder if Arsenal tried that with Gabrielle Jesus.

I know he didn't play yesterday, but just when he is available,

would that help his game or would it and help him score more goals Or would it detract from Arsenal's overall game, the fact that he's not out by the corner flag or

just straying, running all over the place?

I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, it does bring other people into play.

I always think it's strange when they say that, you know, as a centre-forward, and obviously, it's a different game, but I'd just be so, I'd be like, am I, oh, damn, I've run into the wrong bit again.

It's sort of like playing shipwreck, you know, when you're a kid, isn't it?

Like, suddenly, like, the sharks get you if you run outside of those lines.

But it's it's a good question.

We should get Jesus to try it for a couple of games.

Yeah, Jacob.

When Liverpool won the league in 2019-20, the only players who'd got, I think, double figures or were sort of scoring all the time were Salah and Mane.

And they scored a lot from wide positions.

And Roberto Firmino didn't score that much.

So I think he got nine.

So I don't think he hit double figures in the league.

And so it's a little bit similar with Arsenal in that the two guys who you really want to be scoring are Martinelli and Saka.

Jesus may be performing a similar kind of function in the selflessness that Firmino produced, and there's so much other good parts of his game,

which is probably why he's given that slack of not being a finisher.

The problem is that this season, Saka and Martinelli haven't produced the kind of numbers that Salah and Mane were three, four years ago.

And it's probably because Salah and Mane were 26, 27 at the time, experienced and had won the Champions League, whereas these two are kids and there's just not been the same kind of output

across the board.

I don't know if it matters not having the number nine who's finishing all the time, but if he's doing his job that the manager wants him to do, but the rest of them aren't producing, then you've got the problem.

And

last season, it wasn't an issue.

That wasn't the issue

for Arsenal.

It was the lack of control in those big games.

Did anyone think that the red card second yellow for Canate was a little bit contentious?

Because then there was a couple more straight after that, Van Dijk in the corner, defensive corner, and then the Gabrielle holding back Nunez.

And I think that would have been his second yellow as well.

And I just wonder about this consistency of whether,

again, a referee has gone, look, I'm going to give you a red, but I'm going to ignore the same things afterwards.

Is it any impact at all?

Or I just looked at it and I just thought.

Obviously, I just thought it was the same challenge from Gabrielle right on the halfway line on Nunez.

And whether it had done anything or not i don't know but just for the consistency of of the game well i i i i would i wouldn't have any problem with the kinate red card but yeah you might have a point actually i hadn't i didn't realize gabriel was on a yellow so i'm sure he was Stephen says, just watched Arsenal Liverpool, and while it probably shouldn't bother me, I found the sight of Arteta constantly outside his technical area surprisingly annoying.

There was no punishment from the officials, which begs the question, what's the point of having a technical area in the first place?

I'm sure Barry will advise me to get a life and stop being irritated by pointless stuff which in turn might help which in turn might help explain why i have lots of grey hairs and he has none um oh i mean i spend my entire life being irritated by bottomly pointless stuff

fill your boots mate um

it's not something that bothers me but yeah if if if the technical areas there maybe they just should put an electric fence around it or a force field or something.

I don't know.

That is not one of the more unimportant things in life that bothers me but there are plenty rest assured yeah well apparently um everyone sent us the rules about the technical area it's marked by a white line varying in size but it's always one meter

on either side of the designated seating area for the players you know the dugout so he suggested that arsenal would just extend that designated seating area to the entire stadium and so that was the whole stadium was a dugout and there arteta can go where he wants but conor mcnamara was in the international comms and he said, When Arteta did that run and celebration, he went, Oh, you'll see these images again and again of Arteta.

You know, this will be an iconic moment.

I'm like, He does this every time Arsenal score a goal.

I don't think this doesn't feel iconic to me.

Anyway, well done.

They can celebrate.

They won, and it's important.

Newcastle for Luton four.

James says, What if Michelangelo's David is actually Rob Edwards?

I don't know if you were there, Troy, but what a what a game.

I was there, yeah, up in the mountains.

Could just just about see some dots on the pitch but yeah it was it was an incredible game you know one thing about this loot and team now that is growing more and more more is that they've got no fear no fear at home definitely at kenilworth road as proved with their midweek win against brighton but away from home now they are

when when we first started to go and watch and and you know they were containing for 60 minutes and they were making sure that they were still in games and then they were coming good for the last half an hour their approach to this game was get at Newcastle as much as they could, exploit them in certain areas.

Dan Byrne had a run around from Obene and then

hope that things will happen for them.

Ross Barkley, again, this is getting repetitive, dictated play from the middle of the park.

So while Gareth is out watching Jordan Henderson in Holland, maybe should be watching a little bit closer to home because his performances week in, week out now, taking on the best midfielders that there are, have been outstanding, outstanding, outstanding, scored a great goal, contributed to some

really good, good football.

And this is not to say, take away from Newcastle, who were also excellent.

They were affected by losing Anthony Gordon at halftime, who had a really good first half and

caused Osho some real, real problems, including the making of the second goal.

But it was just an outstanding game.

I think the referee was enjoying it because he'd added in 11 minutes on at the end and he was happy to keep running around.

So,

you know, without going into the detail of the goals at the moment, it was an outstanding football match.

Yeah, it's interesting you say outstanding so many times.

Tom noted that Jermaine Genius' analysis of Ross Barkley match the day.

He said he didn't just stand out, he was outstanding.

I mean, it's hard, isn't it?

Live TV is not always easy.

But interesting, you watch England a lot, Jacob, and I know none of us think that Southgate will pick Ross Barkley.

But but do you think he should at least give him a shot?

He's given him a shot before, and it's been a long time since he gave him a shot.

I think it probably would have been pre-pandemic that Ross Barkley would have been in the England squad.

Yeah, that would have been when they were in the Euro qualifier.

So it's a long, long time ago.

But he is...

playing a different role to the one that he was playing back then when he was in number 10 really and he's gone into this deeper role and it seems to suit him a lot more.

The issue I always had with Ross Barkley wasn't that he had a lack of talent.

He got into Chelsea

particularly in that first season under Lampard.

He got into a couple of silly incidents off the pitch which probably didn't really help this cause at all for club or country but I always just felt like with Barkley that there was just all this obvious talent and athleticism to him and then he just wouldn't release the ball and you'd just be so frustrated watching him because he knew that so much good had gone before it, and then he'd just mess up the final pass.

And at the top level, it wouldn't, you know, that just wasn't acceptable.

And there'd just be more efficient players who maybe didn't have the same level of ability as him, but were able to produce more.

Now, he just looks calmer, which we've really come out of nowhere because for four or five years, he's done nothing.

And

he's gone there and just looks more relaxed.

And playing in that deeper role, it

seems to suit him more it's it's brought out a different side to him i don't think he's going to get an england squad um i think it's all quite settled i think southgate has an idea of how he wants to play um

and there are probably others who would be further ahead of him um maybe ones who've been in the under 21 setup so people like curtis jones harvey elliott but I do expect that when the squad comes in March and Ross Barkley isn't there, there'll be a lot of angry people and maybe he'll have some questions about it.

It'll be interesting to hear what he says because he knows him well.

He's wanted to play him in the past.

I presume that was a Steinberg Jr.

in the background, unless Barrius had a child

without any of us knowing.

That was number two being carted off to nursery.

Right.

Okay.

I know.

He wants Ross Barkley in the squad.

Well, of course, he's beginning the clamour.

If I had had a child, Max, it would be a well-behaved child.

It would not be interrupting

The recording of this podcast.

What was your take on this game, Barry?

It's quite hard to analyse a game with this many goals.

Look, it was great.

Terrific entertainment.

I presume both managers will have been disappointed with the outcome, but it's a brilliant point for Luton, and they're on course to stay up at the rate they are.

I'm not going to say hoovering up points, but

I think they've only lost one in their last nine in all competitions.

That's not bad going for a team

most people had written off as no hopers before the season started.

They are visibly before our eyes.

Well, obviously, it's before our eyes if it's visibly, but improving every game.

And

they were a little naive.

And at the start of the season, they were overwhelmed on occasions, but they're just getting better and better and better.

As

I think it was Troy said, they're fearless and they're good.

They're good.

Newcastle, they've had a sticky patch on the road and now they're having a bit of a sticky patch at home.

They've conceded 10 at home in their past three games.

That's not good.

And, you know, Dan Byrne, we know he's slow and a bit big and lumbering.

But he, I think, should have been taken off, put out of his misery before, you know, I think he was on for 65 minutes.

Make him sound like a horse at the Grand National.

Erect a screen around Dan Byrne.

Put screens around, go and get the humane killer.

But, you know, I think Tino Livermento was available and he didn't come on for, yeah, but so not brilliant management by Eddie Howe, I would argue, but

just a fantastic game, really, really good game.

Imagine being the idiot who wrote Mike Lubin get nought points this season in The Guardian.

Who would do that?

I wasn't going to bring that up.

No, no, no.

Troy, did you have one final thought on this?

Yeah, I thought Barry just made some really good points about how's management of his own side.

There was a distinct and obvious threat down the right-hand side.

And I was surprised to see Byrne probably come out for the second half.

And then he gives away the penalty as well.

They look so much better when, and I understand this about Harvey Barnes, who scored what I class as a controversial goal.

But Liveramento was available and probably would have dealt with the threat a lot better.

Just spinning back to Barclay just a little bit.

and I think it's the one thing that maybe holds him back.

I'm not clamoring for him to be in the England squad, but

when you're playing at the top of your game and you are English, you have a right for someone from the management team to come and have a look at you to see if you're playing at that level.

He got caught for the Harvey Barnes goal, as he does.

He takes a little bit of time.

He looks to

open play up and a lot of the time he's playing, he's raking passes right and left, well, predominantly right-hand side.

And he got caught.

I can't remember who it might have been shah um i thought it was a foul and it's ended up in the back of the net and it's it's probably about 20 20 yards out because whilst taking the ball they took ross out but this is something that he needs to tidy up a little bit as well when he is in and around his own 18 yard box and then i think he'll he will

you know he will improve his game again but the clamour is not for him to be in the england club squad but the clamour is for him to be recognized and if he's playing better than than certain people then he deserves that and that alone all right that'll do for part one uh we'll start part two at Stamford Bridge.

Hi Pod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Remarkable, a brand name and an adjective, man.

Yeah, Yeah, it's their most portable paper tablet yet.

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A proper football journalist, man.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Chelsea 2 Wolves 4.

Kim says, Can we have your analysis on how the emergence of the inverted fullback has influenced the use of the Matsala midfield role?

Just kidding.

Should Chelsea have strengthened in the summer?

Rob says, Do Chelsea need to sign another sandwich?

And Jacob, you were there.

I mean, your report was, is the word excoriating?

Is that the word?

That's a word, yeah.

That is a word.

I mean,

the way you, you know, and you saw the whole game, and you did start it correctly saying before we go out of Chelsea, Wolves were brilliant in this game.

So let's do them justice before we really get stuck into Chelsea.

Again, Wolves and Gary O'Neill were brilliant.

Yeah, I mean, Gary O'Neill, two seasons in a row, has taken over apparently hopeless situations and has turned both sides into very accomplished outfits.

I mean, everybody thought when Lopotegi went and Neves had gone as well, and the financial situation at Walls appeared to be terrible that this is only going one way.

And they turned up on the opening day.

I don't think he'd been there very long at all, had he?

at Old Trafford and played them off the park and were very unlucky to lose.

And probably the difference that day is that everybody came away going, wow, Kunya's like the best striker in the world until he has to score.

And now, six months on, going, wow, he looks like the best striker in the world, but he's also scored a hat-trick and they've won the game.

So there's a bit of a difference there in just the ruthlessness that he's able to produce.

But just as a team overall, they just looked so comfortable.

The back three were good, the wing backs were

caused Chelsea a lot of problems.

I mean, I Nouri

is there for the second goal, it's an own goal, but he's forced it.

The two midfielders who Lamina and um Jalgomez, who are up against you know the 200 million pound midfielders, ran the game.

And then you've got, along with Kunya, you've got um, I mean, Sarabi as well, should say he was a clever player, but then you've got Neto, who is just one of those wingers who

it looks like he's going to lose the ball, and then he just holds the marker off because he's strong, so that you can't get him that way.

And then it looks like he's going to lose the ball, and he just gets out of it with quick feet and he just takes his own time.

He's just unplayable yesterday.

And then the pace and allied to the pace, the ability to produce the cutbacks for two of the goals, he is just an incredible player and changes it so much for them when he's fit.

And Chelsea just did not react to it at all.

It was obvious all game.

You maybe don't get it on match of the day because they're focusing on...

on other elements, but it was just obvious all afternoon that Wolves were just knocking these balls over the top in behind Ben Chilwell and getting Neto isolated against Thiago Silva, which was just a mismatch in terms of pace.

You see it on the

third goal and the second goal where he gets in behind, it was just coming all afternoon.

And it wasn't a surprise that it led to goals.

What was a surprise...

or maybe not given the way that they approached things, was that there was no reaction from Chelsea at all.

No attempt by Pochatino apparently to stop what was happening down the right.

It was very easy for Wolves to play the Bulls down there.

So, no pressure from the wingers

or midfielders to stop it.

Nobody kind of getting across to help Chilwell and stop this very obvious problem.

And

it turned a little bit hairy at the end when they conceded the Tiago Silver goal.

They kind of dropped off a little bit of 4-1, and Gary O'Neill had a little bit of a go at them for that.

And then, for I don't know why, there were 10 minutes of added time at the end, and it felt, oh my God, are they actually going to somehow rescue themselves here?

It turned it sort of gave the

suddenly gave the match a different feel because those 10 added minutes just make it feel a bit weird, and suddenly everything turns really frantic.

Wolves were suddenly defend having to defend quite a lot.

They'd taken off Netto at that point, but really, it was a just it was a thrashing and a well-deserved one.

And just Chelsea, just

they've been on quite a good run at home.

And when they scored the goal, went 1-0 up, felt, okay,

they're going to settle down now.

It just

didn't.

It just carried on making stupid mistakes and carried on not working hard enough.

And

the way that they played yesterday, you really worry for Pochatino because it looked like they weren't a team who were following any kind of instructions, had any kind of identity or plan, which has really been the way of it all season.

And beyond how bad they were on the pitch, it felt a lot like the Southampton home game last season, which they they lost when the fans in the East Low around the press box really turned on the manager, Graham Potter, at the time.

And yesterday, it was similar.

Fans really going for Poch, screaming at him, abuse that probably can't really repeat here.

But

beyond that, what the owners will have heard, the owners who I think are breaking the football club at the moment,

a chance for Abramovich, to a chance for Jose, which I don't think are realistic, but that just sums up the mood it's just turning

i know if you if you think it's toxic thing it's toxic now just uh just give him

give him six weeks of working with mudrick and de sassi and then then you'll see what toxic really means but it's just a shambles the whole thing is a shambles and the fans have it already feels like they're turning i think what at the moment is probably what's delaying anything or or keeping Poch in there at the moment is probably the fact that they're in a final.

Yeah.

Tiago Silver's wife, Bella Silver, tweeted, It's time to change.

If you wait any longer, it will be too late.

Heart, heart.

I don't know, Barry, if I have no idea if she's referring to Pogettino, to I mean, it could be anything, couldn't it?

She might want a different husband.

Possible.

That's what I took from it.

I'm going to go on Hinge, see if she's there.

Yeah, I mean, it's look, Jacob's covered it fairly thoroughly there.

The thought that occurred to me watching this is I wonder if in a parallel sliding doors universe, Moyes Casedo is in midfield for Arsenal playing really well and Declan Rice is

bumbling around for Chelsea, giving the ball away repeatedly and massively failing to impress.

But I don't really have much to add to what Jacobs said.

He was there and...

He's pretty much covered.

The thing I got from Potr's post-match interview is that his level of contrition was so

well contrice

you know it's difficult for me to ask for more time more time more time patience is not infinite does he want to get fired maybe did you see um

a fan had dm mudrick and he offered him 10 000 pounds to come and play a one-on-one game to prove that he was a better footballer than him i thought that was quite funny at the end yeah

i think the text came after Wednesday's game, but he only replied after yesterday's game.

So I don't know why he left it so long.

But he offered him 10,000 anyway.

Was it straight up or amortised over eight and a half years?

The question, wouldn't it?

Matthias Jr., the fourth player to score a hat-trick at Chelsea in the Premier League after

Aguero 2016, Van Persi 2011, and Carnu 1999.

Was the Carnu one where he scored that one from that really basically on the clock?

Yeah.

definitely was.

To the Amex, Brighton 4 Palace 1.

Surely, Troy, the end is nigh for Roy Hodgson, isn't it?

Apparently, Steve Parrish is thinking about it, but no one wants to take the job right now.

That's what the rumours are.

Yeah, I was hoping you wouldn't come to me first on this one.

Obviously, been to so many Brighton Palace games and know how much this game means to the fans and how the atmosphere is in, you know, the game at

Selhurst and then here,

they were absolutely taken apart, weren't they?

And I think you're right, the end is nigh for Roy.

He looks like a manager, very much like Poch after what Barry's just said there.

And the whole thing around Michael Elise, I mean, if Roy ever threw anyone under the bus, he really did throw his medical team.

He said, if I'm going out, I'm taking my medical team with me, that's for sure.

Brighton were very good.

I watched them Tuesday night, didn't I, at Luton, where

they had, they were horrendous.

They were pretty much from start to finish, absolutely horrendous.

I also watched Pedro walk out in a knee brace very

on Tuesday night, looked like he couldn't walk, looked like he could be out for a very long time.

So I was stunned that he started the game on Saturday.

Him, Lamptey, Lamptey playing on the opposite side as a left wing back or even, you know, because Palace weren't doing much, advanced even further up the pitch.

Lamptey was absolutely amazing and caused so many problems, but the the goals were too easy.

You know, the dunk, who, you know, Palace fans can't stand, but it would have stopped the songs about dunk very early doors.

Hinchelwood from a Lampti cross.

Pedro, you know, we talk about planning between the lines, and I'm sure we'll do that with Watkins again later, but Pedro was just anywhere and everywhere.

He's such a good player.

I mean, the goal was brilliant from Pedro, the move with Welby, but I was like, goal was outstanding.

Yeah, goal was outstanding.

But like I said, he was anonymous on Tuesday night.

So it obviously had, you know, Deserby would have got into his players and told them the importance of the game, but also that

they needed to replay the fans that went on Tuesday night.

It was just a stunning performance and one that does leave, you know,

Roy in very much difficulties.

There were banners about Steve Parrish.

So how long does he last after this?

A debut for Wharton, that will be one not to remember for the young lad.

It was, you know, but the whole talking point now is about happened with elise why he came on at halftime and why in his first sprint that he he'd done his hamstring again but that shouldn't overshadow should never overshadow the quality of brighton's performance um to old trafford then matches united three west ham nil sc says beach blonde seems to be popular in the united changing room currently has barry ever frosted his tips have you ever had that barry No, I haven't.

Still jet black hair.

You could, you could, you could do it now.

Jet black, it's a dark brown.

That image, yeah i mean gonacho scored twice hoyland's goal was brilliant that image bad sort of feels you know of the the two of them and and kobe mainu sitting there feels kind of iconic you're saying they're the future max well i don't know i mean like

it just looks like a cool it just was like man united hasn't been no fun all season no one's had fun anywhere no players no fans nothing eric ten hag and it's just like oh look there are three young kids who are good at football having a nice nice time yeah um

and

I'm going to be a Grinch here and say as three nils go it wasn't a hugely impressive 3-0

but I expected

and I don't know what Jacob would have might have expected as a West Ham fan but I expected nothing from West Ham in this game because David Moyes' record he's him and Stephen Bruce it's just you know go to Walt Trafford here I have three points but yeah Manchester United fans have had very little grounds for optimism of any kind this season, as you say.

And that was a nice little celebration, nice picture.

And some of the fans behind them will have a nice picture

of the backs of their shirts and remember the names, you know.

Yeah.

Feels like Torrey that Hoyland goal is...

His first, only the second player to score on his 21st birthday in the Premier League after Noel Whelan in 1995.

But this feels like that's the first time I've seen him, and I might be doing him a disservice, taking a goal with just supreme confidence.

Like, here is someone who just scores goals.

That's the first, it was just, it was that good, I thought.

Yeah, I thought I highlighted it as well.

I must just point this out as well, that a lot of people have, I think, disrespected the ability of Casemiro and, you know, how much he's paid and whatever else.

But he won a ball, he won the ball high up in the pitch, which will probably go unnoticed.

Not here, it won't, Troy, because of you.

That's why you're a knight of the realm.

You know, it's the kind of Nick that United haven't been doing because they haven't got the quality to do it.

But yeah, let's focus on Hoyland.

His confidence is growing, obviously, four in four.

You can always tell a centre-forwards confidence when he turns down the strike on his stronger foot, the one that he's now pile driving shots home.

He sent two West Ham players the wrong way, shifted it to his right foot and confidently.

did the same kind of strike with his right and i like the way he's celebrated as well

is it supposed to be a guitar?

I think it was, but it was just shows me where he is.

And obviously it's taken a very long time for him to settle.

He's a young man.

He's at Manchester United.

He was supposed to be beating everybody and he's the main guy.

And I've heard a lot of people talk about he shouldn't be the main guy because he's not got enough experience.

But I think what he's proven is that he's now adapting into the side, into the mold, into the Premier League.

He's now understanding what is required of him.

And because of that, he's scoring goals he's done it in the champions league and four in four is nothing to sniff at and if he's the only if he's only the second uh 21 year old i didn't know we kept stats like that to be totally honest but there you go i have no idea where they found them noel whelan would later go on to uh impress on celebrity master chefs so we can look forward to rasmus hoyland uh serving up a a nordic feast a ju to jean taraude and the other bloke in in 20 years time um jacob everyone said that Calvin Phillips needs to play football to get in the Euro score.

Given how playing football has gone for him so far, perhaps, I mean, not playing football would have given him a better chance.

Yeah, it's not been a great start.

Obviously, the

horror moment against Bournemouth, although he was probably played into a lot of trouble by Kurt Zuma's pass, but then it happens again on Sunday as well, where for the third goal getting done by Scott McTominay.

Yes, very much looks like a player who needs to get get up to speed.

He looks like someone who's basically not played football for 18 months.

So, so far, it's not gone to plan at all.

They sort of played well,

played probably better than they have than in some recent performances where they dug out some results, missed chances, missed a really good one at 1-0.

They don't really have the firepower at the moment to be able to do that against Manchester United away and come away with anything.

And it just feels like they've needlessly made life difficult for themselves over January.

You know, at the start of it, they weren't really planning on doing anything.

Then the Paquetta injury, coupled with Bowen and Kudis being away as well, just suddenly exposed how limited the options in reserve were.

In particular, Ben Rama, Fornells, and

Danny Ings as well, who had a decent performance against Sheffield United, but really hasn't done much.

And so it felt like, okay, they need to replace these players, strengthen the squad options because they're very reliant on Paquetta.

I think Bowen and Kudis are quite reliant on Paquetta for the creativity.

And instead, they've just gone and sold Forna's and Ben Rama after

almost because of IT glitches, apparently.

Have they gone through those transfers?

Yeah, those have happened.

They've both gone.

But instead, they haven't, despite having obviously their new technical director, Tim Steiton, in, haven't been able to bring anybody in.

So it just feels like a situation that, you know, where they're going into Christmas

in sixth place, beating United, beating Arsenal, Sla 16 of the Europa League, just feels like they've suddenly just held themselves back for no particular reason.

The one thing you might say is that it's possibly all FFP related.

They have shifted some money off the wage bill.

while bringing in Calvin Phillips, which gives them now the ability to play four very slow central midfielders at once.

The dream.

That is the dream.

David Moyes has now lost 239 Premier League games, more than any other Premier League manager.

I mean, in his defence, he's managed quite a lot more Premier League games than most managers.

He has nearly 700 games behind him.

Worth mentioning, Desandre Martinez's injury looked pretty unfortunate, doesn't look great, and they are much better when he is playing.

And I'm not sure we've done enough Barry on Kobe Maynou

yet.

I mean, there is time.

He is young.

He is young, and we have a lot of games to get through.

Yeah, we do.

So, look, Kobe, hold it.

We will talk about you.

Don't worry.

To Brammel Lane, Joseph says, do you think the Aston Villa players were aware what they were doing in front of a Premier League manager?

Yes,

they were 4-0 up after half an hour.

Beat Chef United 5-0.

Chef United even scored and it was disallowed off this incredible VAR check.

And I can't remember who's on comms.

I'm just sort of went, oh, well done.

Like really patronising when they finally finally scored.

So this Barry is Villa were really brilliant.

That Douglas Louise pass for the second was so wonderful, and but they weren't really playing much.

They were brilliant, and you can only be brilliant against whatever's in front of you.

And

Sheffield United could not have been more accommodating despite being at home.

We know they're not very good.

We know they're probably going to get relegated on the evidence of this.

They'll be relegated sooner rather than later.

And,

you know, it was just a chance for Villa to rebuild their confidence.

Ollie Watkins had three assists and a goal.

Douglas Louise was imperious.

And as you say, that pass for the second one.

And I was doing the minute-by-minute report.

I got to use one of my favourite phrases, an insouciant swish with the outside of his right boot.

and completely bamboozled Lamed Hodzic, who just more or less tripped over his own feet feet trying to deal with the ball through.

Sheffield United fans were furious.

Lodes started leaving at 2-0.

Lodes Moore started leaving at 3-0.

And by the time they scored, they actually rallied a little bit towards the end when it was far too late

after

Chris Wilder brought on some subs, Cameron Archer, Ben Osbourne.

I think the most remarkable thing about the Sheffield United performance was the fact I'd completely forgotten about the existence of former Everton midfielder Tom Davis but he came on for his first appearance since being out injured in September or late August and he's shorn his long blonde locks and replaced them with a buzz cut with a go faster stripe that you know of the kind David Beckham used to have so well done him

good.

Johnny says on the subject of Chris Wilder and sandwich eating.

One very hot summer's day in my old job, all office office employees were offered free ice cream from the canteen.

So after lunch, I returned to my desk eating a cornetto when a senior manager appeared at my desk and started grilling me on an upcoming product launch.

This scenario presented me with three bad options.

Continue to eat the cornetto in the presence of the senior manager.

Not eat the cornetto, but have it melt over my hands mid-conversation.

Put the cornetto down on my desk for it to melt all over my things.

I can't honestly remember what happened.

I think I probably got away with holding it and not eating it, but I feel a sense of solidarity with that assistant referee.

Anyway, before we end part two, we, not me and Barry and friends, The Guardian, would like all of your money.

We are not funded by a nation state or a billionaire or a hedge funder.

We're good, honest stock.

But we live in hope.

We live in hope and on hope.

Yeah, we do.

We do know that not everyone can afford to pay for the news right now.

If you can, please support us to sustain the Guardian's future.

Consider supporting The Guardian.

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The Guardian will be here covering it all.

Every contribution, however big or small, powers our journalism and sustains our future.

You literally power Barry with your money.

If you could please follow the link in the description on the webpage or go to support.theguardian.com and we'll be back in a second.

HiPod fans of America, Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the remarkable paper pro.

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It holds all your notes, to-dos, and documents, but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin, so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket.

Perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office, like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist, man.

Exactly.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly to Goodison then Everton 2, Spurs 2.

Everton grabbing a point in the fourth minute of injury time.

Definitely deserved it.

A couple of interesting points in this game.

Richarlison's non-celebration Troy was extraordinary, wasn't it?

But the second one, he looked bereft.

I mean,

he looked utterly devastated.

We had Tottenham fans texting the radio show me and Barry yesterday saying, we thought the first one had been disallowed.

That was how muted his celebration was.

Listen, it's his third goal against Everton this season, so I'm not sure he should be worried about celebrating.

But Richardson's a very emotional footballer, you know, having witnessed him play forever

and the emotion and the roller coaster that that was at the time that we were there.

I mean, you didn't get a chance to see him celebrate much then, I guess, did you?

Ah, wow.

Anyway, we'll ignore that and then we'll move on.

um no he's look

i get it when players don't

you know everton served him well they bought him from watford he scored bundles of goals for them you know he was sold basically because of financial reasons although i think he he wanted the move anyway to get out at the right time and scoring at gooderson park you know

the way that he scored as well the the early nature of the goal probably probably you know he wanted to at least say to them look like you know, I'm sorry almost.

But by the second one, like you said, the fact that he pulled his shirt over the top of his head and he was like almost hiding, like, that wasn't me that put the ball in the back of the net.

Look, like I said, I don't hold anything against players who score goals and don't celebrate against former employees, having witnessed my own son do it in the past.

So I'm not going to have a knock at Richardson for sure.

Two great strikes, by the way, and two great strikes that show that, you know, nine in nine, again, as a striker in top form and where he's been questioned quite a lot about putting the ball in the back of the net.

He's doing it on a consistent basis.

Son's away.

He stepped up.

He scored goals.

You can't do no one more than that.

And, you know, good on him.

Baz?

Yeah, the two really good goals.

I mean, the whole non-celebration thing is...

performative nonsense by everyone involved.

He should be shoving it right up them and they should be flipping him the bird and effing and jeffing him out of it.

It's football.

That's how it should be.

but um

spurs will see this game as as two points dropped i saw everton probably deserved a draw they weren't weren't as good as spurs but they worked hard and they puffed and puffed and they hide crosses into the box and targeted vicario who who like in the city cup game um

was bullied at corners and it eventually cost spurs i don't know why i said to you yesterday max i think think we need Graham or Howard Paul.

No, Graham.

Howard Paul.

Howard Webb.

We start cloning referees to build the ultimate referee.

All we want is consistency.

So here is Pierre Luigi Hackett.

And people will do the job for you.

Well, we need Pierre Luigi Hackett or someone else to come out and tell us whether or not it is legal for a defender to back into a goalkeeper at a corner because I I don't know whether it is or not.

Some referees seem to think it is, others seem to think it isn't.

So a bit of clarification would be nice.

I'm sure Vicario would like some because he seems to be the one goalkeeper out of all of them in the Premier League that everyone has decided can't cope.

So Spurs need, you know, they needed to deal with that.

They needed to put a defender between him and whoever was bullying him at any given time.

And yeah, Spurs, they've now dropped 18 points from winning positions.

I think we used to be praising them.

There was a time this season we praised them for getting goals late doors, and now they just seem to be conceding goals and chances late doors.

Something they need to sort out.

Yeah, they've let in eight goals in injury time this season.

I guess it isn't as bad as conceding eight goals in injury time in previous seasons when there wasn't so much injury time.

But on that question about Vakari, I had a couple of questions.

Beza says, Is Poster Cogri right when he says refs are letting things go and waiting for VAR to intervene?

As VAR only intervenes on clear and obvious errors, smaller errors are becoming more frequent.

Whereas Peter says, Has the veil fallen from our poster coggly friendly eyes?

As we now realize he's actually quite grumpy and condescending when he fails to fix a weakness in his team's defending of set pieces and the other team rudely takes advantage.

What do you think, Jacob?

I think the first point is interesting.

I mean,

what I found interesting was in the Bristol City West Ham Cup game, the replay, where there was no VAR, and it was a Premier League referee who'd come down to do the game.

And it looked like he didn't know how to do it without the technology there.

So there were a lot of challenges that just went, and it was almost like he was thinking, well,

that leg breaker can take place, and I'll wait for someone in my ear to tell me that there's something I should stop the game and I need to go and check the screen.

But actually, nobody was doing that because it was just a normal game.

And so I felt like that was a little indication of how

it looks to me like they're not able sometimes to make their own decisions now because of that safety blanket of having somebody always there to tell them

you might want to go and

check on that one.

So yeah, I think it's quite possible that they're starting to miss things simply by not taking action.

And yeah,

on Anne, she's probably just a football manager

who's annoyed.

He's He's not the nicest man in the world, and he's not the

grumpiest either.

He's just annoyed that they didn't get the rubber the green.

Not getting into that one.

Yeah, Burnley 2, Fulham 2.

Simon says, given Chelsea's need for a finisher, why don't they take a look at signing Burnley's David Datrofafana in the transfer window?

He looks like just the sort of player they need.

Of course, he's on loan from Chelsea.

I think it's easier now to presume that every player plays for Chelsea or is it on loan from Chelsea?

Chelsea have this they've got this ridiculous thing now outside the um outside the ground where you can I think it's called the dugout club or something or the tunnel club but I think it's the dugout club and it's when the the the team turns up and they get off the bus and there's someone with a microphone outside sort of introducing the players and you get to see them coming in but you you have to sort of have earned the right to be there to to see this happen and like yesterday it was the guy was going like

welcome off the bus david washington he's like who are these people who are he wasn't even on the bench and like and they're getting on and at stamford bridge you know there's like the posters and everything it's like of old players and it's like diego costa and didi drogba and

john terry and they're lifting premier league titles and champions leagues and it's like welcome back cheserry cassaday it's like

who are these people who david washington wasn't even on the bench yesterday oh was that a real person i just presumed you'd made up a name

paid £17 million for this guy, for this guy, and he's played like one game.

It's just unbelievable.

And then, yeah, for Farner, they paid money for him as well.

Maybe David Washington was driving the bus.

We've got for a snip a bus driver for a 70.

He was doing replacement bus for West Anglia Great Northern, and we've got him in for 17 million.

Well done, Todd.

I don't know how Fulham didn't win this game, Troy,

but they didn't.

Yeah, I really don't know.

Honestly, they were coasting.

It was as easy a game as I think they could have imagined away from home, particularly as Burnley had beaten them at Craven Cottage previously.

So

it's very, very hard to explain.

They could have gone 3-0 up just before.

I think Fafana came on and then Fafana comes on and Burnley all of a sudden have a target to hit in and around the box.

He calls mayhem.

He's a great-headed goal for the first one, if I'm right.

Yeah.

Yeah, Burt Leno.

I'm not sure where Burt Leno was going.

Yeah, I don't know what he was doing there.

And then that's it.

And then they're at Fulham and the game changes its whole kind of look.

And I don't even know how the second one went in.

But, you know, if there's ever going to be a bit of luck, it was at that moment that was needed.

Two have gone in for a tackle.

It's hit the back of it.

I don't know.

It's hit his foot, the other side of it, but it's gone in the back of the net.

It's the kind of luck that you need when you're in positions like that and um you know he's got his two goals he looks like a threat he's obviously someone that burned can probably now utilize there's still a good lot of points for them to make up but he's given them half a chance by taking a point but fulham

i don't know how they've thrown that game two mistakes two goals it's a funny old game isn't it um barry uh your thoughts on born the one forest one

uh i don't have many thoughts on it, to be honest.

All I saw was the highlights package.

On the strength of that, it seemed like a pretty fair result.

Callum Hudson Adoy, once a great big prospect at Chelsea, who's now sort of in and out of the Forest team, got a good goal.

And then, I suppose the main talking point of the game was Philip Billings' red card for

what I thought at first sight was a fairly innocuous challenge.

I was slightly surprised when Rebecca Welsh produced the red card and then seeing it in a replay, it was a nasty little challenge.

I'd like to think it wasn't deliberate, but maybe it was, but

just to stamp a rake down his Achilles, which really hurt him and forced him off.

But that is all

the sum total of my thoughts on that game.

Just time for a bit of any other business.

We've covered Gareth Southgate going to watch Henderson.

Eric did ask, is his obsession bizarre, weird or creepy?

uh there was an interesting tweet from someone called max bollard saying 18 english players featured in newcastle luton 12 in everton spurs 10 in brighton palace five in burnley fillham twelve in chef united villa and gareth southgate has travelled to watch jordan henderson play for ajax max said pathetic i think that was not so much gareth southgate wanting to see jordan henderson make his debut for ajax but gareth southgate more or less saying

this guy's in my plans and i don't care what the rest of you think so you know nah nah nah.

I think you might be right.

Ian says, niche this, bear with.

Blackburn Rovers have failed to register correctly their third player in the last two January transfer windows.

When have the panel similarly been hamstrung in pursuing their sporting endeavors by basic administrative incompetence?

Um, yes, that is slightly unfortunate.

Mark says, I went to watch Eastleigh versus Chesterfield in the National League.

My friend had two short comfort breaks in each half, and we left with a minute to go.

He missed all four goals.

Is this a record?

Um, Colin writes, Hi, Max.

At 36 minutes and 20 seconds on Monday's pod, Barry stated, and I quote, I think non-league players are all excellent footballers.

As a long-suffering Boston United fan, I'd like to strongly and disrespectfully take issue with the statement.

Some of them are just shit, he says.

And

this is from Keith finally.

He says, hi, Max and the gang.

Down the years, many Football Weekly listeners have used the pod to soundtrack various procedures being done.

Now I propose to up the ante by listening to Monday's pod on Tuesday, the 6th of February, while I have my hip replaced.

I was going to have full sedation, but I fancy having Barry's throaty laugh or a random swear word being dropped in my ears as the surgeon drills away at me.

I might regret this.

No to saying no to full sedation, not listening to the pod, but it'll be an experience if nothing else.

Love the show.

Keep up the great work.

Keith in Haddington.

Well, we wish you the best of luck.

We're an hour in, Keith.

So I don't know how long a hip replacement takes, but hopefully you're not regretting it right now.

And you didn't have general anesthetic.

But God, a hip replacement.

Well,

I don't.

I know someone who had a hip replacement.

I always assumed they cut you open, saw off the big ball thing at the top, and then replace it with titanium.

I once, in the company of Ian Wright and Ray Wilkins, name drop, name drop, they were having a great chat about their respective hip or no ray wilkins had had one and Ian Wright needed to have one and Ray couldn't recommend a ceramic hip highly enough.

So, right.

I hope our listener is getting a ceramic hip.

But apparently, it's all done keyhole.

I don't know how, but it is, or

the one I heard about was.

So, so, like, Keith has nothing to worry about.

Well, maybe he's doing it, he's going old school, just biting down on a bit of leather while some Victorian surgeon sets about him with a saw and a spike.

All right, fair enough.

Well, best of of luck to you, Keith, and best of luck to everyone else who isn't having their hip replaced currently while listening to this.

And that'll do for today.

Thanks, Troy.

Thank you, Max.

Thank you, Jacob.

Nice to have you back.

Thank you.

Thanks, Baz.

Thanks, Max.

Football Weekly is produced by Silas Gray.

Our executive producer is Max Sardison.

This is The Guardian.