Chelsea’s Carabao Cup blow and a Premier League preview – Football Weekly Extra

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Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

The magic of the brackets carabao closed brackets cut.

Middlesbrough beat Chelsea.

Hayden Hackney's gold enough to take a slender lead to the bridge in a couple of weeks.

Should Chelsea dip into the transfer market to get someone in before the second leg.

Meanwhile, Liverpool win again, this time over Fulham.

They probably deserved it, but they were a bit lucky as well.

Their stealth march to a quadruple is still on.

We'll look ahead to the Winter Break Premier League games.

Burnley Luton, huge at the bottom.

Big Sir Jim at Old Trafford for Manus first.

And Man City's title charge continues at St.

James's Park.

We'll do some transfers.

Would you choose?

Spurs over Bayern Munich and Watford.

Jonathan Faduba's got an idea which might, brackets, might be interesting.

We'll redress the fact we forgot Bobby Moore on Tuesday.

Name a child.

Answer your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Jonathan Faduba, which is useful considering you have an idea.

Welcome, Jonathan.

Good morning, Max.

I have an idea.

It may bore everyone to tears, but I have an idea.

Well, we'll take it.

It's very rare anyone offers an idea in the WhatsApp group.

Hello, Barry.

Hi, Max.

And hello, Simon Burnt, and welcome back from your cricketing duties.

Thank you very much.

Unlike Jonathan, I have no idea.

So

between us, we've got both extremes covered.

Exactly, and that sort of dovetails perfectly, doesn't it?

Chimmers says, who do we want to win the League Cup final?

Plucky Fulham or Plucky Borough.

Let's start at the Riverside then on Tuesday night.

Middlesbrough beat Chelsea at 1-0.

It was, Barrier.

It was a great night of cup football at the Riverside.

Yeah, it was a brilliant performance by Middlesbrough, who I think had 12 players out injured,

lost their striker, Emmanuel Latte Lath,

very early doors, which prompted a rejig from Michael Carrick.

Then they lost

Alex Bangura, their winger, which prompted another rejig from Michael Carrick.

Borough were incredibly well organised against a Chelsea team, which simply couldn't break them down and were kind of restricted to pot shots.

Cole Palmer missed a couple of good chances, which you'd normally expect him to dispatch with Elan.

And I thought Middlesbrough were well worth their win.

It's tried to say they wanted it more.

Their players gave everything and quite a few Chelsea players were incredibly poor.

Now to be fair, Chelsea did have a lot of injuries as well.

But, you know, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, Max, but they have quite a big squad full of good players.

So they have far more strength and depth than Middlesbrough.

You would think they would have, but they still couldn't break Middlesbrough down.

I think Chelsea probably will go through, but they'll need to up their game considerably to win the return leg at Stamford Bridge.

Now, the hero, Jonathan, was Hayden Hackney, who has reportedly attracted interest from Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, and Tottenham.

I assume you've been tracking him since he was about four years old.

No, I haven't, unfortunately, Max.

Sorry to disappoint you on that one

that's a great letdown but yeah no he you know he's he's a decent player he is someone that's kind of been on the radar at youth level and done well the interesting thing obviously max middlesbrough haven't been into a cup final uh since 20 2004 so this would be 20 years that 20 year anniversary since they won it uh if they were to make it to the final i think they deserved it just about but Chelsea, it goes back to the whole strike issues, doesn't it?

And the first thing that, pretty much the first thing that happened after this game finished was everybody running to X or Twitter or whatever you want to call it and sort of stating that Chelsea needs to buy a striker.

Victor Ossiman, Ivan Toney being linked.

And it just seems like Chelsea games are almost like a prelude to a discussion about who they will buy next, similar to Arsenal in a way at the moment with the striker issue there.

They had some decent efforts, as Barry mentioned, but not really, didn't really show up.

And Michael Carrick, I think the best thing about this match was how excited and happy Michael Carrick was.

He was delighted.

He couldn't stop smiling really after it.

And I think that that tells you how important it is for Middlesbrough being in a championship and the journey they've had over the last sort of 20 years since winning it.

So,

yeah, I mean, listen, being a mid-table Premier League team at Chelsea is a decent achievement.

From a championship point of view, Simon, I mean, I'm aware you have been at a Cricket World Cup and in the Caribbean to watch

England Reserve T20 side.

So you may not have been following Middlesbrough in great detail while on the beaches of Grenada.

But were you surprised that they managed to put up such a decent performance?

Well, yes, and no.

I was really impressed with them last season.

Obviously, they had a couple of lone players who they couldn't keep.

And I wasn't really expecting that kind of this level of performance, you know, the 12th in the championship, I think.

They showed kind of not just technical quality, but tactical versatility.

They were changing formations,

their fitness, their work rate.

it was you know they did the the championship proud as uh

uh as lower league clubs often say after cut games when they lose yeah it was a really convincing and impressive performance not just from the team like yeah it's no surprise that michael carrot was looking chuffed at the end of the game because uh you know he was up against a very famous uh established uh foreign coach who's had a a succession of high-profile jobs and he out-coached him.

Yeah, and actually, considering you know, Wayne Rooney just getting the sack from Birmingham, we talk about that sort of golden generation, of which I suppose Carrick Barry was kind of ignored, wasn't he?

He's the golden generation ignored man.

So, maybe if he becomes the most successful manager of all this lot, that will mean something to him.

I mean, he obviously had quite a good career at the same time.

Yeah, I enjoyed watching him as a player.

He,

I mean, Steve Gibson tends to get his managerial appointments right at Middlesbrough, and he obviously

sees something in Carrick.

They started the season quite badly, and there was talk he might lose his job, but then things started to go right for him.

So they're mid-table now.

But,

you know, he had to make some big calls in that game, and he had to make them quickly.

Switching formation,

he moved, that involved moving Isaiah Jones further up the pitch, and Isaiah Jones was a constant menace down the right wing for Middlesbrough.

Gave Levi Caldwell a bit of a lesson and

you know, just turned him inside out.

Levi Caldwell was playing left back, that's not his position.

He normally, I think, he's a centre-backer, plays left side of a back three.

But yeah, he had a really torrid evening, but

yeah, Carrick, he just got everything.

He had some big decisions to make during the game and got them all right.

And, you know, his players were excellent.

I think the manner in which they performed against Chelsea was in stark contrast to the manner in which their sort of neighbour Sunderland performed against Newcastle at the weekend.

Sunderland just looked overwhelmed by the occasion, whereas Middlesbrough really fed off the energy of their support.

Adam says, Should Chelsea strengthen during the transfer window?

Present tense as it's open again.

Leon, do full stop.

Chelsea, full stop need full stop to full stop strengthen full stop in the etc etc in this transfer window i mean barry said uh you know that chelsea were restricted to pot shots i mean you mentioned cole palmer i guess baz but they did have some really good chances and they they have jonathan created the second most

the second highest number of big chances in the premier league i don't have the exact definition of what big is you know is it big if it's nicholas jackson's chance for example behind liverpool And I suppose it's an impossible question.

If you knew why they weren't scoring, then Potatino might hire you.

But is it just a case of needing a striker or is it just sometimes this happens, right?

It's happening with Arsenal at the moment.

It's happening for a bit longer with Chelsea.

I think they do maybe

need a striker, which is strange to say when they've spent so much money, it's on record how much they've spent on transfers over the last,

you know, since Clear Lake Capital.

When you look at it, I mean, Amando Broya obviously had a terrible injury.

He's just coming back.

I do like him.

I think he is a good play, scored a good, good header

last week in the cup and looks like someone who could get goals, but maybe it's just the fact that he's still maybe slightly rusty.

He's still a young talent.

Against Middlesbrough, they played Cole Palmer kind of as a striker, more or less.

So, you know, or false nine, however you want to put it, but no real kind of out and out, out and out forward in that game, partly obviously due to their situation, but also partly because they...

They're lacking in someone who can put the ball in the back of the net.

Jackson's had his struggles and although it sounds like an obvious and easy conclusion, I do think they probably do need to dip into the market and find a striker.

What kind of striker would suit them, I'm not sure, but like you said, Max, they are missing a lot of chances.

Sterling

in particular has missed quite a few in games and the Wolves game comes back to mind.

But I don't think it's necessarily a case of not putting the chances away when they get them.

I do think that

sometimes you think it will even itself out, but in this case with Chelsea, I do actually feel they do probably need to dip into the market.

Which, Simon, is insanity, right?

They spent a billion pounds.

It's absolutely

bizarre.

And it's so dysfunctional that

they have spent so much and emerged with a squad still with gaps.

You know, that they might consider buying a left back this

January when they've previously spent you know, ludicrous sums on two excellent players who are both currently injured.

You know, the answer can't always be to throw money at the problem.

Now, Nicholas Jackson is a, I mean, he's statistically astonishing striker in that he has great chances and misses them with a regularity that can't be explained.

But he's a £32 million player.

And to just decide at this point that they need to move on from him, sign someone else for a similar sum of money.

I don't know.

It just doesn't make any sense at all.

I guess it's a way of running a team in a club.

It is an option, but it just doesn't seem at all rational.

They do still own Ramalulu Kaku, don't they?

Yeah.

I'm not sure how he's getting on at Roma, but, you know, there's a striker who leaps to mind that they already own.

Might be able to do a job for them.

Yeah, could do.

They will probably go through, as you said, but if they went out over two legs to a mid-table championship side, that feels sort of disaster crisis claxon territory to me.

I suppose it is because

they're a club that whose fans have grown had grown very accustomed to winning silverware, you know, on a regular basis.

And most seasons the League Cup is the very least they'd expect.

And if they go out to Borough,

that would not be a great look.

I mean,

there doesn't seem to be you know, we constantly talk on this podcast about Eric Ten Hague and is his position in jeopardy and what's he trying to do and what's his plan and

how he's not doesn't seem to be much of a motivator.

I think you could say the same thing against about Poch this season since he's taken the Chelsea job, but we never seem to have that conversation and maybe it's time we did because he does seem to have lost his mojo a bit.

I suppose we know what he's capable of because he's worked here before and we've seen what he did with Southampton and Spurs.

Whereas

Ten Hag is kind of a

you know, he's come from Ajax

and a league that not many people in the UK watch.

But

yeah, what is there a huge difference between the crap job Ten Hag is doing at Manchester United and the crap job Pochetino is doing at Chelsea?

People constantly point to their need for leaders on the pitch, but I think they need a leader on the sideline as well.

And he doesn't see, he seems to have lost his module.

I guess the point there, Jonathan, is time, right?

Ten Hagas just had longer to sort his,

you know, to get his plan in action.

He's had longer, but I do agree with Barry to a degree.

I think that the situation at Chelsea does, in a strange way, get not overlooked, but I think there's still more leeway.

I mean, they've been catastrophically bad for the amount of money they spent.

I don't think

it can be overstated, really, like how poor they've been.

I was sort of looking at them over the last few seasons and it feels like a trick of the mind to see them in Champions League quarterfinals and things like that over the past two, three years even.

It's not that long ago that Chelsea were regularly getting to cup finals, winning cups,

challenging for the Premier League.

And suddenly they just sort of descended into this sort of nothingness despite,

as mentioned, all the money they've spent.

I do kind of agree with Barry, to be honest, in that sense.

I mean, when it comes to Pochatino,

obviously Spiller, PSG PSG kind of petered out slightly, although he was successful in the end, winning the title and everything.

He didn't,

he perhaps didn't quite have the impact that he would have expected to have had.

So he is kind of, one could argue, living a little bit in the stardust of the Spurs spell that he had, that magical time at Spurs,

and obviously the Champions League final.

But I think this season

the issues with Chelsea aren't necessarily on Pochettino.

I feel like he's as frustrated as anyone because

all the things he seems to be hinting at is that I don't have a mature enough squad to do what I want to do.

And that goes back to the obviously the transfer policy.

And that's kind of what's really just muddled the whole club, really, hasn't it?

They're going for these young talents mainly in principle.

And a manager like Pochitino, who's come in and is experienced and has been around Europe, wants players who have won things and wants players who have got the experience.

So now it's like they're having to have almost a complete transfer reset and going in a different direction again.

So

I do agree with Barry.

He hasn't really had maybe the scrutiny that someone like Ten Hagis had.

But at the same time, I don't think the problems at Chelsea are all down to him.

Can I just state for the record, Max, that never in the history of this podcast has anyone embarked on a soliloquy in which they said, I agree with Barry to an extent on so many different occasions.

I am simultaneously flattered and insulted.

Thank you.

And sorry, Vaz.

Meanwhile, at Anfield, Liverpool beat 2-1.

Simon, they probably deserved it, didn't they?

I mean, there were moments at 1-0 when Fulham were 1-0 up and they could have taken advantage, which is like a final ball or just a misplaced shot.

But in the end, you know, Liverpool keep on keeping on.

There was that one

when they were 1-0 up when Bobby DeCordovary went down the right and had a shot from a ludicrous angle.

Everyone was saying that he could have squared it to give a teammate a tap in, but actually, there were defenders there.

I mean, obviously, he shouldn't have shot.

You never score from that angle.

But it wasn't the golden opportunity that I think it was sold as.

Overall,

Liverpool probably did deserve to win.

They play such a

chaotic kind of football, a high-speed,

wild, crazy game.

And it's just so hard to be good and quick.

And

they were really struggling for a long time to find people

obviously Salah is away at the African Cup of Nations and he's the master at that but to find people who could bring decisive quality in key locations at ridiculous hairbrained pace.

Josh had played really well and has remarkable energy and he was the guy who set up the equalizer by

chasing, harrying, winning the ball, winning it again, winning it a third time he was the guy you know the last kick of the game he ran 30 yards to win a throw-in uh

his energy was uh extraordinary and also his quality his first touch excellent for for a long time all they brought was was speed and chaos and not enough quality i mean i agree with you i had written it feels like Jota was the guy who brought the energy.

And he's an interesting player, Barion, isn't he, in that he he sort of doesn't he doesn't set the pulses pulses racing.

There's a sort of ilkai gunda-on-eness about him, where he's clearly brilliant, but you're not going to get out of bed in the middle of the night to watch some Diogo Jotter highlights, are you?

I'd be honest, Max, I don't think there's a player on the planet that would get me out of bed in the middle of the night to watch a highlights.

As I was saying it, I realized the same goes for me.

I mean, I'm over 50 and I can still get through most nights without having to go for a P.

I'm certainly not getting up.

Absolutely insane.

Certainly not getting up to watch a Diogo Jota Shori.

But yeah, I mean, you get players like that in a lot of teams.

They do

hard work very well.

They're pivotal, crucial squad or team members, but they don't get the glory.

And I suppose in a team which, as Simon says, is

as occasionally chaotic as Liverpool,

Darwin Nunes is going to catch the eye with his cartwheeling around.

I mean, Fulham have a player

in Paulina who's much the same, I suppose.

And we all remember how delighted Archie was when his move to Bayern Munich collapsed at the last minute during the summer.

Archie atom was driving and pulled over to the side of the road

because he was so overwhelmed with joy.

He thought he might cause an accident.

But yeah, I thought Fulham are in danger of being overwhelmed in the second half of that game.

And I think they did pretty well to keep the score of 2-1, give themselves a chance at Craven Cottage.

Jonathan, are Liverpool stealthily on their way to a quadruple?

Don't know about a quadruple, but they certainly...

are probably going to win two trophies, maybe, you'd think.

They should win this tournament.

Let's put it that way.

I mean, as I said, a mid-table Chelsea side, 10th in the league, a championship team, team, and a Fulham side who were sort of plucky, but,

you know, Liverpool are going to be massive favourites to win this tournament, aren't they, minimum?

I thought that Fulham, having said that, I thought Fulham had great chances and really should have been 3-0 up.

Beginning of the second half, first 15 minutes after

half time, I mean, Decord over Reid had two amazing chances on the counter-attack.

Willian was really, really good, created really well.

Amazing to think Willian's still 35, the way he sort of glides past players at times.

But yeah, Decord over Reid had a a really good chance where he took a shot instead of squaring it for a tap in.

There was another counter-attack with Rao Jimenez involved where they could have gone 2-0 up.

So I felt

like the win was inevitable.

You just, the longer it's 1-0, you felt more and more like Liverpool were going to maybe get back into it.

But that 10-15 minute period, Fulham should have gone to definitely 2-0 up and maybe even 3-0 up.

And I think that would have made it a tough, sort of a really tough second leg for Liverpool.

There's the status now, I think, from October who said that Liverpool's have had the most goal involvements by substitutes of any team in the league.

I think 30 goal involvements, which is 12 more than any other team in the league.

And I suppose ultimately

you get what you pay for.

Darwin Nunes is the 30th most expensive transfer in the history of football.

And that's if you don't even include his bonuses.

And Deco Dovery costs 10 million.

And so if you're able to bring on players like Jota, who cost 40 million, you're starting Louis Diaz who cost 40 40 million, you're bringing on Nunes

and Fulham having to rely on a 35-year-old Willian and a 10 million Decode over Reed.

I guess

you get what you pay for.

Does he have a chaos bonus?

Nunes, do you think?

And I don't know.

Who do we believe, Barry?

Simon says Deco Tever couldn't have squared it for a tap in.

Jonathan says he could have squared it for a tap in.

You have the casting vote.

Could Bobby Decode over Reid have squared it for a tap in?

Because I can't remember.

That's what I was about to raise.

This huge rift in Football Weekly, yeah.

The Burnton Faduba rift.

I'm afraid I'm with Jonathan.

I think if he the right pass, it was a tapping, but

yeah, I did raise an eyebrow when Simon said it wasn't as straightforward as I'm going to have to go and look at it again.

I'll wait till tonight till I'm asleep.

I'll set my alarm and then I will get out of bed and go down and watch a replay of

Bobby Dev Cordova Reid

failing to square the ball for

who's Andreas Pereira.

And I and then I'll ring you, Max, and let you know what my findings.

Please do.

Yes, Simon, you're allowed a say on this.

Well, no, I've had no say on this.

There was just a Raul Jimenez Robona cross.

Oh, it was good.

What a phenomenal.

Do the thing is,

he did Robona one into the top corner in the warm-up because I saw Skye had tweeted out, look at this Jimenez Robona.

So clearly, he thought he was in the zone, he was at lamella levels of Robonaing it.

And then he tried one when he really could have just put it in with his left foot, couldn't he?

Yeah, I think

firstly, I think the one in the warm-up, uh, while impressive, just missed the target.

Uh, and then the cross.

Yeah, I mean, if you can,

he had space on the left wing, he could have crossed with his left foot, he could have cut onto his right.

He went for the Robona.

Uh, it was

absolutely gorgeously mishit out of play

i do love a good robona but i really love a terrible robona just because

they shouldn't happen a player just shouldn't like it is the kind of skill that you can only attempt if you're damn sure you're gonna nail it i think david dunn cornered the market in bad remote robonas didn't he yeah

was it him and there's who did a robona tackle at the weekend didn't somebody i can't remember i'm sure i mentioned it like someone was going in to do a robona and then realized that actually there was a player who was going to get the ball.

So then he had to Robona.

It was him in S.

Yeah, he's obsessed.

The man's obsessed.

Somebody stop him.

Anyway, that'll do for part one.

Part two, we'll do a Premier League preview.

Hi, Pod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

Football Weekly is supported by the Remarkable Paper Pro.

Now, if you're a regular listener to this show, you'll have heard us talk before about the Remarkable Paper Pro.

We already know that Remarkable's the leader in the paper tablet category digital notebooks that give you everything you love about paper but with the power of modern technology but there's something new and exciting the remarkable paper pro move remarkable a brand name and an adjective man yeah it's their most portable paper tablet yet it holds all your notes to-dos and documents but it's smaller than a paperback and an incredible 0.26 inches thin so it slips easily into a bag or jacket pocket perfect for working professionals whose jobs take them out of the office like maybe a football journalist, Barry.

Although not like you.

A proper football journalist, Matt.

Exactly.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Worth saying that in the break, Jonathan wanted to bring up that Curtis Jones did play well, and I said we didn't have time to mention it, but there we are.

We've done him his.

That's not what you said, Max.

You said you couldn't be bothered.

Well, we were.

But they were literally your words.

I can't be bothered.

But once you've done a part, it feels like it's done, right?

You know, you had your chance, Jonathan.

You were too concerned trying to bury Simon Burnton with his Bobby Decordo-Marie nonsense when you had the opportunity to say how good, how well Curtis Jones played, and now no one will ever know

what you thought

of

Curtis Jones' performance.

Fraser says, Is Barry looking forward to the return of the Barclays at the weekend, or will the excitement be diluted by the staggering of the fixtures?

Jim says, Do we like half and half mid-season break, or should all the teams have the same weekend off and let some focus go on the EFL, non-league, or women's FA Cup fourth round?

What do you reckon, Baz?

I hadn't really thought of it.

Um,

I would have no strenuous objections to everyone having having a fortnight off means we've less stuff to talk about i suppose but um

yeah i i guess it would but would people focus on the efl and and the women's fa cup i think people who focus on the efl and women's fa cup are going to focus on it anyway that's a good point people would just complain like it was an international break but without the international exactly yeah

which again

i think a lot of people would prefer if international breaks didn't have internationals i like internationals but um many people don't but anyway yes we we have five games we do and there's

yeah great great let's reduce the premier league 10 teams and and then just have five games every week um burnley luton simon this is a six-pointer isn't it fancy luton it's just amazing having watched them both reasonably closely last season that

we're

here in January with Luton four points above Burnley with a game in hand when 12 months ago Burnley was 17 points above Luton in the championship.

They were teams operating on two completely different planes.

And now, you know, Luton are in some measure of form.

They've scored, they've started to score quite regularly.

That's what seems to have clicked with them.

I think they've scored 11 goals in the last six games, which is

which only a few teams, only Spurs, Man City, Bournemouth, Fulham, I think, have scored more than that.

And, you you know, if you don't score, you don't win.

At the moment, they look the stronger, more organised team.

Do you suspect?

I mean,

you're right, Simon.

And the question that is always laid at Vincent Company now, Jonathan, is when will he compromise?

When will he change his philosophy?

And I quite like the fact that he isn't really...

I mean, I have seen Bernie be quite direct at times.

It's not like every little thing is tick-a-tacker with them, but I sort of admire him for doing that.

And if it's a plan that takes them down and takes them back up again, then that's okay

yeah it's okay I found the Spurs Burnley game hilarious to be honest the FA Cup game I think it was the goalkeeper Argent Murich's relentless dedication to passing out from the back when it was so obviously not the thing to do just I found it I found it comical actually it got to the point where it was just and then obviously nearly scored didn't he um at the end of the match but Burnley's home record is is really, really worrying, isn't it?

The fact that they've lost nine of their ten Premier League home games this season, I think they're the first team in English top flight history, let alone Premier League history, to do that, which is incredible, really, when you think about it.

So it doesn't really bode well for them against the Luton side who are sort of gradually

showing signs, I'd say.

I wouldn't say they look like they're going to get out of it necessarily, but they're showing signs of life.

And I think people wrote them off completely, didn't they, at the start of the season?

So that's a positive for them.

And obviously, if...

Bluton win this game, they're out of the relegation zone.

So from their point of view, I think psychologically it's a massive game if they were to be able to get three points against the team that they probably should fancy themselves to get something from.

This is

free scoring Luton, Max, who you famously declared would go the whole season without getting a single goal, wasn't it?

No, no, no.

No, a single point.

Sorry.

No, no, I said at some point during the season, if they were on naught points, eventually it would be amusing for Luton fans because at some point you'd be like, well, let's just get naught points.

But at no point did I say they would get no points or that I would would like them to, I'd like to state.

Again, for the record.

I would have thought

this was the easiest fixture of the weekend to predict insofar as I thought Luton would win

quite comfortably.

But

Issa Kabura, I think, has gone to Afcon.

They're missing Tom Lockyer, obviously.

Marvellous Nakamba's out.

Carlton Morris, I think, is out as well.

So they're

quite a number of key personnel that are missing.

So that may well have an adverse effect on their performance.

They weren't very good against Bolton in the FA Cup, but I suppose we can give them a pass for that one.

But yeah, those injuries aside, I would have thought

I think, you know, Luton would win.

We should mention the Football Sports Association

were rightly unhappy about the move of that fixture, the Burnley Luton fixture,

which, when the TV fixtures were announced in October, it was due to be played on Monday unless either of the teams was involved in an FA Cup replay, in which case it would be moved to Friday, unless Burnley was involved, was still involved in the Carabao Cup, in which case it would be played on Sunday.

Can you get a train ticket for that?

Can you get a train ticket and say, put all that, punch all that into the machine and see what comes out?

Remarkable level of complication.

So, the moment the final whistle blew on Luton's FA Cup draw against Bolton at the weekend, this game suddenly switched from Monday to Friday.

It's quite a long distance between Luton and Burnley.

It's not

really straightforward for fans to get there.

And I think the FSA

have every right to be narked.

I agree with you.

Everton Villa, Baz, Everton have lost three, their last three, after that brilliant spell where we all said, oh, they'll be fine.

And now they're only one point ahead of Luton.

So could, you know, the the results don't go their way?

They will be in the bottom three.

Yeah, it is, it just shows, I suppose, how knee-jerky we are.

And you know, we weren't alone in saying, Oh, yeah, they'll be fine because they strung a few wins together.

Villa on the road are up and down, you don't really know what you're going to get, and

I'd still expect them to win this game.

Uh, Dominic Calvert Loon's red card, I think, has been overturned, so he'll he'll be available.

Uh, Everett have a lost to Drissa Gay to Afcon,

and

they need they need to start picking up points again, so we can we can all go, ah, they'll be fine.

I think it's a combination of their poor results and

other team, like you know, Bournemouth hitting their stride.

I don't think anyone

everyone had written Bournemouth, or well, a lot of people had written Bournemouth off, but

now they're the ah, they'll be fine team, and and I think they will be fine.

But yeah, Everton are

circling the plughole once again.

At some stage, they will go down the drain.

Yeah, Big Sir Jim Ratcliffe will be in attendance at Old Trafford, Jonathan, for the visit of Tottenham.

Do we expect a Radcliffe bounce?

I'm going to say no.

I don't think there'll be a Radcliffe bounce.

It might be exciting.

There'll be a lot of Radcliffe photos, I imagine, I guess.

Cameras will be there.

Cutting away to him.

Cameras will be cutting away to him, yes.

yes cameras will be there cutting away to him but

along with obviously Saddam Breylesford I imagine should be there I don't think it will change a huge amount I thought the Wigan game even in even in that game I thought in the first half Wigan hit Manchester United on in transitions quite often actually and

in the early stages of the game Inanna made a brilliant save where they could have they could have gone 1-0 down and you know maybe it might have been a different outcome I know that in the end United were Miles Bedder and kind of asserted their dominance but again that's a league one team so I think it's going to be a really exciting match I think Spurs are going to come into it, flying the two new signings that they're on the verge of or have announced, Werner, obviously, and Dragozine.

Going to give a bit of a boost to the squad and just the whole general morale.

I think Spurs fans are

quite happy at the moment, aren't they, Max?

It feels like life is rosy for Spurs right now.

And I think they'll take that kind of positive momentum into the game and probably have a go, as Ange would like to say.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's most Spurs fans are just amazed they've done a transfer, not at the start of the transfer window, but but just not in the last hour, not waited until the last hour to do their business.

Nick says, is Angus pulled for Tottenham bigger than any other clubs?

When will Spurs sign Mbappe?

Neil, are you regretting being so conservative in your prediction for Spurs' finishing position?

Yeah, it's interesting that Dragusin

signing, Simon, of which I don't know a lot about this man.

I've seen two high-lapse videos, one of him looking really good and one of him looking terrible, depending on who cut them up.

But for him to choose Tottenham over Bayer Munich,

even if totnam had sort of got in there first and you know given him a nice fluffy pillow and said here are your personal terms is still quite interesting isn't it uh it is quite interesting and it was interesting i read quotes from his agent who seemed as astonished as anyone else yes it's great aren't they

turn of events yeah i mean bayer munich you would imagine would be a greater pull, but

the player sees himself being in the Tottenham first team and playing in the Premier League.

And

you imagine that that should be the ambition of any player to be playing first team football in a major league rather than being in and around

one of the great clubs in the world.

So I understand the logic, but I really like that they must have just sat there.

They make a decision.

They can't believe themselves, the decision they've just made.

They don't really understand it.

They're just going going with it and hoping for the best.

Yeah, his agent said, We can't believe we turned down Bayern.

Radio, who'd given his words to Spurs, chose to respect this.

We're all still a bit mind-blown.

Yes, Jonathan.

Well, A, he sounds low-key gutted, doesn't he?

He sounds a bit offset about that.

But

actually, looking at the table for this game, it's probably a bigger game than we kind of think because I think if United lose this game, they're going to be 11 points behind Spurs.

So that would be,

in terms of the top four race pretty much maybe united's top four chances gone you'd think with sort of city arsenal villa villa maybe the only ones you might think they could catch if they had a terrible run but and and obviously liverpool in there so i think for united is a really

must not lose game anyway so from that point of view as well is it probably going to be an exciting one i do think united really have to get results obviously teamo verna's hat-trick uh should separate these two sites convinced the bucket loads are going to start i mean eric dyer could be

on his way to Bayern.

I really hope he goes and wins something.

I think that would just be a wonderful thing for him to do.

Look, Eric Dyer hasn't flopped at Spurs.

He's too slow for the style of play that Andrew Prostacoglu wants to play, but he's a good pro.

He seems like a cracking fella and good luck to him.

Do you think

Dragazon and Werner will go straight into the side?

I don't know.

I mean, I actually think with Tottenham's best side, I think you'd have Romero and Van der Venn as your centre-backs.

So I actually don't think he walks in.

I don't think, I mean, he probably sees himself as a, you know, as a player who would start.

Well, Romero is fit again.

I don't know.

Yeah, I think Van der Venn is fit.

I didn't know Romero is fit.

But interesting.

I suspect Vernon will start on the bench.

One thing about the Dragazin signing, I would like to give a shout out to Sky Sports reporter Gary Cotterill,

who...

Now, it was bitterly cold in London at the moment.

It's really bitterly cold.

And poor Gary had to spend all day yesterday standing outside the Spurs training ground just reporting on a black people carrier arriving from Stansted Airport containing Radu Dragson and his gobsmacked agent

arriving at at the training ground and then the security man coming out of his hut uh looking in the back door it had blacked out windows as gary kept reminding us: you know, this is a super important site.

We've got tinted windows in the people carrier.

The security guard peeps in the back door, then the driver sort of lowers the window, has a word with him, and in they go.

And I don't know if anyone has been to the Spurs training ground, but if you're a reporter, if you're standing outside it all day in the cold, you're basically just standing on a grass verge on the side of a country lane.

And normally you would have for company some

South Korean football fans who congregate in the hope of getting a shirt signed by or a photo with Hyung Win's son.

But as he's not there at the moment, poor old Gary will have been all on his own.

Newcastle played Manchester City.

Simon, do you expect City to sort of keep marching on as they had done since they came back from becoming the world champions?

Yeah, I guess I do.

And Newcastle's record against Manchester City is really astonishing, astonishingly and inexplicably abysmal.

I think that they've won just one of their last 32 league games against them, which I mean, there's no sense in that.

Obviously, it has no bearing on this weekend's game.

But

City are obviously a more convincing team currently, and you'd expect them to beat most opponents.

And I don't think Newcastle are an exception to that.

Newcastle's record is really bad, and Eddie Howe's record against Man City is diabolical as well.

Because when he was manager of Bournemouth, Pep used to always talk him up before games.

And that's always a sign that

Pep has no regard for him whatsoever.

And my team is about to spank you 6-0, which is invariably what would happen.

Before we end part two, some really sad news that we've just heard about Sven Juran Erickson.

He's told a Swedish radio station that he has at best a year to live.

Here's what he says.

Everyone understands that I have an illness that is not good.

Everyone guesses it's cancer and it is.

But I have to fight as long as I can.

When asked about the condition, he said he has maybe at best a year, at worst less, or in the best case, I suppose even longer.

I don't think doctors can be totally sure.

They can't put a day on it.

It's better not to think about it.

You have to trick your brain.

I could go around thinking about that all the time and sit at home and be miserable and think I'm unlucky and so on.

It's easy to end up in that position, but no, see the positive side of things.

Don't bury yourself in setbacks because this is the biggest setback of them all, of course.

We of course wish him all the best.

And that'll do for part two.

We'll be back in a second.

HiPod fans of America.

Max here.

Barry's here too.

Hello.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly, not far away from Jonathan's idea that we mentioned in the intro.

And Jonathan mentioned in the WhatsApp group and then regretted mentioning in the WhatsApp group.

Before that's Real Madrid be Athletic 5-3

in the Spanish Super Cup, which is it in Saudi Arabia?

I bet it is.

Yes, it is.

Barcelona played Osasuna this evening.

Highlight, Barry, was probably Kepa's own goal.

I think he punched it into his own foot and then lobbed it back over his head.

I had to watch it a number of times before I could be.

I'm still not not totally sure.

It looked very much like he punched into a defender, but actually he punches it and then he lobs himself.

If he tried to do it, it would have been impossible.

I say that's the highlight.

I haven't seen any of the other goals.

There could have been seven absolutely extraordinary goals, but I can't report on them.

I suspect Sidlow's excellent Spanish football podcast would be a good place to go for them.

What about Watford Corner, Simon?

10th, four points off the playoffs.

I stared at your manager for ages, not working out who it was when he played Chesterfield, and then finally got it.

It's a fun game to play, actually, as to who is this man I'm staring at.

But how is Valerian Ishmael?

I really hope it is him.

How is he doing?

It is him, and he's actually doing surprisingly well.

He arrives with a reputation of certainly from his two previous opponents in English football as a bit of a long ball route one merchant.

And that's not been the way we've played at all.

He seems to be, he's quite a physically imposing man.

He seems to have a kind of intensity to him, which I guess I like to see in people who are supposed to be leaders.

He has imposed discipline that wasn't there before, not just kind of tactical, but in terms of getting players to turn up to training on time,

to turn up for coaches and buses and meetings on time.

And he has the team playing,

It's not fantastic football, but

it is football that makes sense.

That there is an idea of how we're going to move a ball from back to front and how we might create a chance or a goal.

And

this seems basic.

It feels like the bar you're setting is incredibly low.

Well,

it may turn up on time.

It may feel basic, but this is a bar that Watford have not been meeting at all.

Like you're for years now.

We beat Chesterfield on Saturday, only just a goal late in stoppage time.

Chesterfield were superb, by the way, like really properly organised, quality, physically imposing, like good

in every way football team.

And they will surely get promoted this season.

We beat them on Saturday, and that was our first win in the FA Cup since the 2019 FA Cup semi-final, which is illustrative of something.

Like we've just been, and all those defeats, except for against Man City in the final in 2019, which was against the run of play,

all those defeats were against low elite teams.

We've just been a bit of a disorganised rabble for some time.

And now we kind of vaguely make sense.

And that, you know, that'll do.

Jonathan, you put something in the WhatsApp group that simultaneously sounded very interesting and not very interesting.

So what was it?

It was like Bobby Corridor Marie's

shot instead of crossing.

It divided opinion.

Was it interesting or was it not interesting?

Yeah, so anyway, well, I suppose I think I mentioned at the start of the season that I'm currently doing an MBA in football industry at the University of Liverpool.

And part of the

part of the, well, I have an assignment due tomorrow, essentially, Max, in which I have to...

compile a report on the player labour, the economics of the players' labour market.

And so when in this whatsapp group the question came about of is there anything else we could talk about to fill our time for some stupid reason i mentioned that i'm writing this and it could be interesting uh to look at so essentially let me try and sell this to you i'm i've basically spent the last few days you've lost all confidence in it you've lost all confidence you do anything with conviction people will go with you like i believe in you well the link was that the jaden sancho deal so obviously basically what i've been doing is i've spent the last few days looking at the top 25 transfers in the history of world football and trying to answer the question, how do you determine what is a successful transfer?

And there's a piece of research from the former head of research at Liverpool called Dr.

Ian Graham.

He was part of the team with Michael Edwards, the sporting director, who the famous part of Liverpool who went in there, introduced analytics, revolutionized the club and won pretty much every trophy going.

And their argument is that most transfers, more than 50% of transfers are unsuccessful.

So I'm looking at every transfer,

the most expensive 25 transfers in history of football.

I've just posted it there so you can have a little look.

But basically, that was where I wanted to go with it.

So the reason I mentioned it is obviously because of Jaden Sancho and the lack of minutes.

Now, the argument is

a successful transfer is someone who plays more than 50% of the team's minutes.

That can be determined as success.

God, that's it.

So not done it well, but just dumb it.

Exactly.

Because if you look at it, a lot of players don't actually make it to 50% of minutes, let alone be good.

So, if you look at the top 25 transfers in the history of football, um, at the moment, for example, Neymar is the most expensive transfer in the history of football, 222 million euros.

He ended up playing 50.4%

of PSG's minutes due to obviously illness, injury, and things like that.

Well, I was just going to say, just glancing at this list, and

let's look at Moyes Caised

at number nine, 116 million euros from Brighton to Chelsea.

Now, he seems to be playing quite often.

I would say he's not playing well and hasn't really got going at Chelsea at all.

I know it's very early.

He's only been there a weekend.

So

what would be the sort of deciding factor there?

I think in his case, it's probably

what economists would refer to as a small sample size.

He's not been there very long, and so it's probably hard to answer.

I mean, Declan Rice is in there, and that's an interesting one because he's played,

Barry, he's played in 88.8% of Arsenal's minutes so far.

He's played 2,398 minutes of a possible 2,700 minutes for Arsenal, 29 out of 30 of their games.

And in terms of the actual hypothesis, he counts as a really successful signing, but of course that's not very

early days.

Sancho is an interesting one because of the 12,660 660 minutes at manchester united he's played in 39 of those minutes this season he's played 76 minutes of a possible 2610 so it it shows you essentially that although we often like to look at transfers as like do they score a lot of goals did the team win a lot of trophies um in terms of when you look at transfers in general most of them more than around 50 of them fail and so just using the top i decided to use the you know the most expensive transfers just to give an just to get an example because you would assume the highest paid players in the history of football or the highest paid transfers would be the most successful players.

Um, but even looking at this list, I mean, uh, Barry just mentioned some of them.

You've got Neymar and Bappe, Coutinho, Jiao Felix, and Enzo Fernandez, the top five.

And you know, Coutinho has played less than 50% of the minutes at Barcelona available when you after his transfer.

He played 28% of all available minutes.

Yeah, he's a disaster.

Coutinho's a disaster.

Felix didn't work.

Enzo, probably too early to say.

Griezmann to Barcelona didn't work, work, did it, really?

And that's the thing.

I mean, that's why when you look at someone like Killin Mbappe, who so far has played 75% of all minutes for PSG, regardless of whether you think that's he's done well or badly, it's a successful transfer because just he's shown up for three-quarters of their matches.

It's the Valerian Ishmael thing, isn't it?

He's turned up on time.

But the thing about Sancho as well, like his

timekeeping appears to be a huge problem.

He needs to go and play for Valerian Ishmael.

And his attitude has been called into question because he's obviously had this very public falling out with Eric Tonhag.

I don't know the nitty-gritty of it, but

it's arguable that because of his poor attitude, he has missed out on a hell of a lot of minutes because

if he's as good as they say, then he would be walking into that Manchester United team all the time.

Yeah, I saw an interesting clip of Ange, actually, who obviously I'm completely brainwashed and think is the greatest man on earth.

But he was saying he didn't think that there was actually a massive gap between the absolute elite, you know, these guys that are going to cost you 100 million and guys that are going to cost you 50, 40, 30 million.

But, you know, but so if you look at the character of somebody, and obviously that should come into your that doesn't come into every single recruitment.

I mean, it should, clearly, if you're spending that much money on something or someone or anything but like he would rather a player who wasn't quite as good but would definitely be there on time and you know do all the sensible things because you know one one person in the dressing room can sort of change the dynamic and i guess there are those clubs right at the top those biggest clubs who sort of have to spend that much money or will

or there will be a premium if they sign anyone.

Simon, did you want to chip in on this or are you happy listening along?

There are reasons for signing a player other than

and ways that a player can be a success other than contribution on the pitch.

That, you know, if a player improves the club's kind of commercial standings, their ability to negotiate sponsorships, the number of shirts they sell, if a player

kind of assuages dissatisfaction among the fan base by, you know, if an owner splashes some cash on a player and changes the mood around the team, the mood around the club.

There are any number of ways

which you might choose to judge the success of a transfer.

There will be some that have been successes on multiple metrics, despite the player not playing very well or very often.

You'll have to put a Simon Burnton caveat, Jonathan, in your...

No, but I mean, that's totally...

I completely agree.

And that's the point, really.

It's that...

So I kind of posted about Neymar in the sense that he's played 50% of PSG's minutes while he was there.

He won loads of trophies.

I think they won 13 trophies.

And obviously, commercially, from PSG's point of view, you could argue he elevated them to a new level of

at least profile, if not success.

Depends how you want to look at it with the Champions League.

He didn't personally win the Ballon d'Or, but the fact that he played exactly 50% of their minutes, more or less, is he a successful transfer or not successful transfer?

Because I think a lot of people feel maybe it wasn't a successful transfer.

But from PSG's point of view, you could argue.

So

what do you look for in a transfer?

And that goes back to Simon's point as well, which I agree with.

So yeah, that's been my week.

There are a lot of unquantifiable.

Definitely, yeah.

So that's been my fun week, basically.

But I think the bottom line is it's if you look at players as economic units of labour in productivity terms, in terms of like what a unit of labour is, it's just basically this assignment is to look at like how

a unit of labor, how we assess productivity.

in football.

So yeah, partly boring, but also partly quite interesting in a weird way.

No, I thought it was interesting.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Well, and you're going to have to let us know if you get a gold star or not.

Yeah, a smiley face or a lot of red pen.

Mark says, having just listened to today's part during discussions of France Beckenbauer, you discussed how in a Superstar 11 he would be the only defender.

Was Bobby Moore not rated that highly?

As I assumed he would be there.

Yes, we probably, Johnny as well, saying your team sheet of all-time defenders is simply Beckenbau.

Would Bobby Moore not get a spot?

Maldini Beresi, three-time World Cup finalist, Cafu.

Der Kaiser was incredible, but not head and shoulders above all others.

This is a good point.

Der Kaiser, actually, he always thought that Bobby Moore should have been England manager and was baffled that the FA never gave him a gig as England manager, but apparently the FA weren't that keen on him for some reason or other.

The stuffed shirts in FA HQ.

Yeah, on Beckenbauer accidentally becoming a phone sex line, AMR says, surely friends with benefits was a missed opportunity during Archie's anecdote.

Thank you so much.

Nick says, after waiting since 2017 for Wigan to get a mention on the pod, it was hilarious to hear you ask a question about Monday's game.

And the debate immediately turned to Baz watching Prime Suspect.

Even Lars Sivitson, who watches Alaskan Division 3, didn't see the game.

Anti-Wigan bias in action.

Sorry, Max, just the correction.

It was Silent Witness I watched.

Yes.

And it is Wigan's fault because if they had not conceded that goal, I would have continued watching.

So

and would have had more to say about it.

Chris says, this last week I've been listening to the pod to keep me awake while my newborn sleeps on me.

He still doesn't have a name.

Thoughts?

Here we go.

Let's name a small child.

I presume, Barry, you get the honours with this.

Barry Glendenning.

That's what I call it.

Well, I mean, I think this podcast has mainly been around Bobby Dickard over Reed.

So, Bobby, that's, you know, Bob is a good name for a baby.

I'd really be happy, Chris, if if you said, here's my baby, Bob,

named after the huge rift

that stemmed from

Simon and Jonathan disagreeing on where Bobby Dekardova-Reed should have put that ball or how easy it was.

So if you could go with Bobby, we would appreciate it greatly.

And do let us know how you get on in the naming ceremony if you have such a thing, if such a thing exists.

And that'll do for today.

Thank you, Barry.

Thank you.

Thank you, Jonathan.

Thank you.

And again, sorry for

boring everyone.

No, no, no.

I quite enjoyed your guns.

Mine was one of the voices of the scent originally, and I thought we got good mileage out of it.

Cheers, Simon.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Max Sarnison.

We'll be back on Monday.

This is The Guardian.