Maidstone show Arsenal how it’s done in the FA Cup – Football Weekly podcast

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Speaker 5 Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. It's the third round of the cup weekend, everybody.

Speaker 5 Remember when the pod was hosted by Gerald Sinstatt from the team bus at 8 in the morning and the whole family would sit around the sepia-toned iPod to listen?

Speaker 5 Fast forward to 2024, and there was just enough magic, some great games, and some ridiculous goals to make it all worthwhile. Arsenal Liverpool didn't disappoint.

Speaker 5 Not being able to score becoming a recurring theme for the Gunners, who missed a lot of chances before Liverpool started to miss lots too, before eventually finding a way.

Speaker 5 Before that, Maidstone, the fairy tale of the round, beating Stephenidge 69 places above them on the 4G in Kent. What a nice chap George Elakobi appears to be.

Speaker 5 Good efforts from Blackpool, Bristol City and Bolton, who all earned replays against Premier League sides. Play them before the big boys get replays cancelled altogether.

Speaker 5 And lots of kicking the ball incredibly hard. Porrow, Gibbs White, Palmer, Esther Pinan, and Bamford.
Beyond the Cup, let the bucket loads begin for Timo Berner as he joins and his revolution.

Speaker 5 And well done, Jordan Henderson, who's completed his mission to grow the game in Saudi Arabia and now wants to come back, presumably to reinstate himself as the ally we all thought he was.

Speaker 5 All that plus your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

Speaker 5 on the panel today.

Speaker 1 Will Unwin, welcome.

Speaker 40 Good morning, Max.

Speaker 5 Hello, Barry Glendenning.

Speaker 1 Hello, Max Rushlin.

Speaker 12 Hello, John Bruin.

Speaker 41 Hello, Max.

Speaker 5 Let's start at the Emirates then. Arsenal 0, Liverpool 2, full hand.
He says, if player had continued forever, in what year would Arsenal have scored?

Speaker 5 I thought this was a brilliant game, Barry. I really enjoyed it.
I mean, the sort of recurring theme that Arsenal can't score is quite funny, but neither team could really score until one of them did.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was a fantastic game.

Speaker 1 And Arsenal's dominance in the first half and their inability, not just to score, but their inability to score in so many different ways. It reminded me of

Speaker 1 the famous scene in pulp fiction where Jules and Vince are in this apartment and there's a guy hiding in the bathroom. He comes out and sprays them with a hail of bullets and somehow manages to miss.

Speaker 1 And then one of them inspects the holes in the wall and says, you know, we should be dead. This is a miracle.
And they go on to discuss, is it a miracle? Is it a coincidence? Is it fate? Whatever.

Speaker 1 And I suppose on any other day,

Speaker 1 we could be discussing a comfortable Arsenal win over exalted opposition at the Emirates, but we're not. And on any other day, you could just put it down to one of those things.

Speaker 1 A failure to score goals is an ongoing problem for Arsenal. They've now

Speaker 1 got one sort of skanky effort against Fulham in their last three games. They've converted one of their last 61 attempts on goal or shots on, yeah, attempts on goal.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it is clearly an issue for them.

Speaker 1 They've got two weeks off now. Everyone's talking about a reset and you know

Speaker 1 can they fix the problem? With some warm weather target practice. We'll find out, I suppose.
The goals will come for them again. But at the the moment, it's definitely an issue.

Speaker 1 But I loved this game, I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 5 Barney Ronnie writing, this was at least a beautifully subtle and varied display of attacking impotence.

Speaker 5 Arsenal failed to score from close-in, failed to score from distance, failed to score from the most imaginative angles, failed to score with headers, long shots, one-on-ones.

Speaker 5 This was an exhibition of total failing to score.

Speaker 5 In the Premier League, they've scored 37, John, compared to Spurs, who have 42, Villa and Liverpool 43, and City 45 over 19 or 20 games.

Speaker 5 Is that significant?

Speaker 41 It appears to be significant in the sense that as a result of it, they are slipping behind

Speaker 41 their objectives. And in a game like Sundays, where they're with a better team for a significant portion of it,

Speaker 41 listen, we've all watched a lot of darts, right, over the last couple of weeks. And there's always this thing, isn't there?

Speaker 41 You've got to put in your dabbles, yeah? That's what they always say after the...

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 41 they're not nailing the doubles, are they, Arsenal? And that's the issue for them. And may I also share my enjoyment of this tie?

Speaker 41 To quote John Mottson, a crisp, competitive cup tie. One of the good things about the FA Cup is it takes you back sometimes, doesn't it? It really throws you back into the past.

Speaker 41 And at a certain point, I felt I was about 10 years ago watching Arsenal under Arsen Wenger. It just felt the same, just them, the fans groaning as chance after chance misses.

Speaker 41 The post-match interview in which the manager claimed that almost his team were the moral victors.

Speaker 41 It was all there. It was good to have Arsen Wenger back as Arsenal manager.
It was great fun. We've got our Arsenal back.

Speaker 5 Welcome. I like the idea of

Speaker 5 an exhibition of 501 between Eddie and Ketia and Gabriel Jesus, and they're both on double one for three days

Speaker 5 at the end of it.

Speaker 5 But the interesting thing is, Will, like Liverpool sort of saw what Arsenal were doing, missing a lot of chance, and thought, we've got our way of doing that as well.

Speaker 5 It's not subtle, it's just Darwin Nunes just being around.

Speaker 40 Yeah, well, Liverpool desperate to avoid a replay. I think that was key.
So in the first half, they thought, well, we'll just lose and then it's fine. And in the second half,

Speaker 40 actually, we can win this and avoid a replay.

Speaker 40 So it's a very cunning idea because they were terrible in the first half, trying to pass it out the back in the most incompetent fashion and whatnot and barely had a barely had a chance on goal apart from trent alexander arnold sorry trent you can't call him alexander arnold so apologies apologies to everyone there and yeah in the second half they really picked it up they remembered that they they could attack um they were pretty good going forward arsenal you know gave them the goal in the end but they gained the goal because you have people like trent who can whip a ball in and it was very difficult to defend at that front post ramsdale you know he's not going to get it because of the positioning and you know the defender's unlucky that he's had to flick it in but that's how it goes when you you know just managed to hold on and set pieces are very important I think you know is it one in seven goals as a set piece in the Premier League or at least it was last season so that's what you get Nunes is he's an enjoyable person to watch you don't know what you're going to get from you know

Speaker 40 good runs in behind good bit of skill but yeah general chaos is what he provides and without Salah a bit of chaos will be quite fun for the next few weeks.

Speaker 40 You know, that was his 29th game of the season, which is quite a feat for a player.

Speaker 40 But at the same time, it was also good to see that at 0 0-0, Liverpool's changes were bringing on two young lads that made a difference with Bradley and former Sudan manager Lee Clarkson coming on.

Speaker 40 And they made a difference. And

Speaker 40 with players missing, with Van Dijk missing for illness, people at AFCON and Asia Cup, that bench looked pretty weak yesterday reading it, but it shows that there is some quality there.

Speaker 40 And those players

Speaker 40 could get more of a chance in the coming weeks, which will be interesting to see for Liverpool, especially with so many competitions to play for at the moment.

Speaker 40 They're back in action on Wednesday and late against Fulham in the League Cup. A pretty grueling period for them, but

Speaker 40 they have the rhythm that Klopp wants, and he was talking about last week.

Speaker 40 And it was a very good victory in the end to come through the difficult phases, to get a couple of goals later on, to knock out a Premier League title rival is no mean feat at this stage of the season.

Speaker 41 In the commentary, Alan Shearer kept referring to how neither team wanted a replay. And he said it about three or four times.

Speaker 41 And I began to wonder what the scenarios were going to be to avoid a replay because Arsenal were never going to get themselves through, it became clear. So, yeah, and actually, it was an own goal that

Speaker 41 started

Speaker 41 Liverpool's victory. It was this really strange idea.
I I mean, Alan Shearer, um, a traditionalist, you'd expect. What is it about this whole thing? Oh, the last thing you'd want is a replay.

Speaker 41 Well, what, and that's all to do with the fact that they don't get to go to Dubai, isn't it?

Speaker 41 That they don't get to dig Dubai, they don't get a round of golf, like maybe the first couple of days when they get to have a beer on the trip is cancelled.

Speaker 5 I think Alan Shearer is contractually obliged to do the FA Cup replays, so he wants also to go to Dubai.

Speaker 1 And so he's

Speaker 1 exactly.

Speaker 40 He's off to Bolton v. Luton now.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 5 I do wonder about replays, Baz. And somebody sent quite a good idea, which is, I mean, I'm, you know, obviously, if you're a small club, you're desperate for a replay.

Speaker 5 We drew at home to Man United, I don't know, probably, it's probably like eight years ago.

Speaker 1 It was 2015.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 41 I went to the game. It was a glorious night in football.

Speaker 5 Yeah, the goal was draw.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but it was good. It was a good game.
Yeah, yeah, good game.

Speaker 5 It was great.

Speaker 5 And like, we made a million quid from going to World Trafford. That is life-changing or certainly decade-changing for a club like us.

Speaker 5 And Thomas Frank was saying, oh, Brentford shouldn't have to do replays.

Speaker 5 And I think Tim Stillman tweeted, well, you know, five years ago, Brentford would be like desperate for a replay or 10 years ago, you know, away at a Premier League side.

Speaker 5 But somebody came up with this idea that if neither side wants a replay, it goes to penalties. So Arsenal Liverpool could say, we don't want a replay, either of us.

Speaker 1 Didn't I come up with this idea on the radio yesterday, Max?

Speaker 18 Oh, maybe that. Maybe you did.

Speaker 5 But then if one of the team wants a replay, then you have to have a replay. Was that your idea? Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's a really good idea. That's what I suggested yesterday.

Speaker 5 Thanks for calling into the show, Baz. It was kind of.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're welcome.

Speaker 40 Something must have overshadowed that view you've made on the radio show.

Speaker 1 Let's not cross the streams, Will. Yeah, I think that's a

Speaker 1 fair thing to do. You know, just ask the clubs before the game or in the run-up to the game, you know, do you want a replay if it's a draw? If neither of them do, just go straight to penalties.

Speaker 1 If one of them does, then that's what you get, a replay.

Speaker 1 I think it's, I didn't hear what Thomas Frank said, but if he said Brentford shouldn't have to play replays, that seems quite an arrogant stance.

Speaker 5 I might have misquoted him. Yeah, I might have misquoted him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I get why he might not want one. But then

Speaker 1 teams like Brentford, you know,

Speaker 1 well, I suppose they are getting themselves into the bother, relegation bother, but, you know, generally mid-table sides in the Premier League should be going all out to try and win the FA Cup if you're not in danger of relegation.

Speaker 1 And then you see some of them feeling under-strength teams. And I get that you want to give squad players a run out, but, you know,

Speaker 1 I don't think Brentford have much to complain about in the way of fixture congestion. It's not as if they're, you know, battling on numerous fronts.

Speaker 1 So if they have to play a replay, tough. If you don't want to replay, win the game.

Speaker 26 It is.

Speaker 5 Maidston won, Stephen Edge-Nil, Sam Korn's penalty.

Speaker 1 Sorry, just before we move on, I presumed the main topic of conversation in the Arsenal Liverpool chat would be the complete uselessness of a Kai Havertz, but we haven't mentioned him at all.

Speaker 40 He's just an FA Cup traditionalist and doesn't want replays.

Speaker 40 Sorry. And wants replays.

Speaker 41 Why did they buy Kai Havertz? I mean, we'll probably get to it later, but Tottenham seems to be making the same mistake as well. Why would you buy Tim O'Verner?

Speaker 41 Why would you buy? Why would you buy?

Speaker 5 Could be good. I think that one could be good.

Speaker 5 Hasn't Kai Havertz found his feet recently? I'm sure somebody somewhere said he was starting to.

Speaker 41 He's left them down the back of the drawer again, hasn't he?

Speaker 1 Maybe he's found them, and he's so happy to have found them. He decided to take far too many touches every time the ball came his way yesterday.

Speaker 41 He's put them in a special place, he's just forgotten it. That's all.

Speaker 1 Or he's put them on the end of the wrong legs.

Speaker 5 No, he's put them, he's put the wrong ones on the end of his legs.

Speaker 1 I think not he's put them on the end of the wrong legs.

Speaker 5 Imply that he's he also can connect his legs, which maybe he can. Maybe he's some kind of playmobile Lego type character.

Speaker 5 Uh, to Maidstone, then uh, the story of the round, really, they beat Stevenage 1-0, Sam Corn's penalty, uh, just before halftime. Tom says, hi, Max.
Quick message from a buzzing Maidstone United fan.

Speaker 5 I remember when we were relegated to the 13th tier of of English football back in 1993, a level only just above park football, where Maidstone spent most of the next 10 to 15 years playing suburbs of Maidstone.

Speaker 5 And to see the team getting to the fourth round for the first time in its

Speaker 5 127-year history is quite something. I'd love a home draw against the big Premier League team or Spurs in the next round.

Speaker 5 As you may know, Maidstone have an artificial pitch, and as I understand it, FA Cup rules allow matches to be played on artificial turf. Whose tantrum would be funnier when they realise this?

Speaker 5 Pep, Arteta, Arteta, Klopp or Ten Hag? I'm going Klopp for maximum passive aggressive value. Love the pods.
Keep them coming, says Tom in Brighton.

Speaker 5 I mean, it's such a brilliant story, Barry, isn't it? And like, a Maidstone's history, as Tom has outlined there, is a really interesting one.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Back in 92, they got turfed out of the

Speaker 1 Football League because they went bankrupt.

Speaker 1 They didn't have their own ground. They were sharing with Dartford, I think.
They

Speaker 1 used to be managed by Alan Carr's dad, the famous Graham Carr. They ended up in the fourth division of the Kent Counties League.

Speaker 1 They worked their way back up slowly to the National League, and then they got relegated last season. So they're now in the National League South, which is four or five, sixth tier.

Speaker 1 So I guess when they got a home draw, they were like, yes.

Speaker 1 And then when they got Stevenage, it was boo.

Speaker 1 But they've won this now. And, you know, obvious due respect to Stevenage, etc.

Speaker 1 But it was a great win for them. They had to ride their luck.

Speaker 1 They have a player in Gavin Hoyt on the pitch, who used to play for Trinidad and Tobago. He once shared a pitch with Lionel Messi and famously said the only time he got near him was

Speaker 1 this was a game in Buenazar as a friendly thing. He said the only time he got near him was when he stood beside him at a corner.

Speaker 1 But yeah, there's lots of good little stories there. Uh, they're a Phoenix team, basically.

Speaker 1 Um, and we were lucky enough to have their, I think, chief executive Bill Williams on yesterday, who's been through it all with them. He's seen, you know, the absolute lows and this super high.

Speaker 1 And he was a really fascinating character, a great talker. Uh, he's 81 years old.

Speaker 1 He'd been out disco dancing half the night, but he was still good enough to come on and chat to us on the radio yesterday. I think their last big cup shot was our success.
They beat Stevenage in 2014.

Speaker 1 So that was their sixth game in this cup campaign. They played three qualifiers and then beat Chesham Barrows, Stevenage.

Speaker 1 And George Alecobe, their manager, you know, I hadn't given him a second thought in years, but he obviously wants to go to Molyneux to face his old club Wolves.

Speaker 1 Mr. Williams wants a draw against Newcastle because he's a fan.
Interestingly, Maidstone actually nearly relocated.

Speaker 1 They wanted to relocate to the northeast many years ago when they were in the doldrums, but

Speaker 1 they weren't allowed to. That could be, you know, if they got Newcastle, that could conceivably have been a derby.

Speaker 1 But, yeah, it's a great story and fair play to them. I really hope they get a good draw.

Speaker 5 And, Will, I mean, this...

Speaker 5 It was so FA Cup third round this game, you know, like the chances that Steve Nidge missed and like the last two minutes of injury time where literally every Mason player is just kicking it as high and as far as they possibly can.

Speaker 40 I mean, we also need to mention the fact that for the penalty, the goal scorer did have Tish up his nose as well, which is gloriously,

Speaker 40 yeah, good point. Gloriously third round FA Cup.
It's what we need.

Speaker 40 I mean, obviously, this is all a bit of a confirmation. They're goalkeeper play for Brazil under 20s.

Speaker 40 He must be good.

Speaker 40 He would have played with some great players.

Speaker 40 They're just, you know, it's just all the front, isn't it? They're actually, they've got people that play against Messi, Brazil internationals. It's the farce.
Yeah, I think, I think, actually,

Speaker 40 previously, we really enjoyed muddy pitches, and that was a great level up. Now, actually, perfect

Speaker 40 fake pictures are the great leveler because other teams don't know how to play them. The ball bounces a bit too high, maybe whizzes off them.
I think when you win, 1-0 is the perfect score.

Speaker 40 Having the ball bounce off the bar post every sort of limb and whatnot was great. The place up packed up bouncing

Speaker 40 was was fantastic for everyone to see.

Speaker 40 And as we say, hopefully they get Wolves in the next round for George Ellico because he seemed such a lovely man afterwards.

Speaker 40 You won't mess with him still. He's kept up with his fitness.
It's fair to say.

Speaker 40 Obviously, it does involve Wolves having to get through a replay. So apologies to everyone at Wolves for that.
But yeah, it was

Speaker 40 like a good day out, and hopefully, they'll be able to take that on the road or drag some Premier League giant

Speaker 40 back to Maidstone because

Speaker 40 this is what the FA Cup is all about. Teams avoiding replays, for one, and getting the smallest team left getting through to the fourth round, which is exciting to see.

Speaker 5 And that kind of was the magicky bit, John, wasn't it? I mean, you had these almost...

Speaker 5 There were so many almosts, weren't there? Like Eastleigh getting a draw at Newport County. It's a great result.
Chesterfield being one up at Watford.

Speaker 5 Blackpool being 2-0 up at Forest, and QPR being 2-0 up on Bournemouth, but none of them could quite

Speaker 1 Cambridge Max being

Speaker 1 twice against Blackburn. Oh, for that, absolutely.

Speaker 41 Yeah, I mean, funny enough,

Speaker 41 as we might discuss,

Speaker 41 I was actually in Kent. I was in Gillingham and sat next to the chap from the Kent Messenger.
And, of course, you realise that the big Kent story was happening with Maidstone rather than Gillingham.

Speaker 41 So there was a bit of, well, a bit of excitement for them, but obviously thinking they've missed the story.

Speaker 41 Yeah, Chesterfield, who I did a piece on for Saturday's paper,

Speaker 41 yeah, it looked like they might be the ones, didn't it, for a while.

Speaker 41 Had a chat with Robin Cowan about it, seeing how close it was.

Speaker 1 And yeah,

Speaker 41 that was a shame, that, because I think Chesterfield fancied they had a chance there.

Speaker 41 You know, when you have clubs in the... the top two divisions you expect them to rest and then the lower league channel team six have got a chance but it didn't quite come off, did it? And I think

Speaker 41 only two teams not in the draw from the Premier League, I think Burnley and Arsenal. I think that's right.

Speaker 41 Obviously, Manchester United can always come through and deliver the

Speaker 41 well, the giant killing of themselves.

Speaker 41 That's always possible.

Speaker 1 But yeah,

Speaker 41 the Cup of Dreams, as

Speaker 41 we've referred to it a couple of years ago. A couple of dreams, it delivered dreams, but not quite the the fairy tale.

Speaker 5 Yeah, maybe. I mean, Morgan Gibbs' White goal was brilliant.

Speaker 5 Daniel Grimshaw, a number of goalkeepers made some brilliant saves in the third round. Daniel Grimshaw made a save from Brian Yates

Speaker 37 late on that meant Blackpool got a replay.

Speaker 5 Maybe I was the only person to realise that's where Asmir Begovich is when I saw him picking the ball out of the net for QPR. But he had quite a good game in that win for Bournemouth, didn't he?

Speaker 5 West Ham, Bristol City, that's a great result, Barry, for Bristol City to get a replay there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that looked like a really good game. Obviously, I only saw highlights.

Speaker 1 Weirdly,

Speaker 1 there was only one game shown live on UK TV

Speaker 1 on Sunday afternoon out of what nine? There was one on the button, on the red button.

Speaker 41 Yeah, it was on the button. This must have been some sort of technological experiment.
And like you,

Speaker 41 I ended up watching Boreham Wood v. York City,

Speaker 41 which was good fun. But until someone pointed me with the fact that it was on iPlayer.

Speaker 41 Yeah, it wasn't the best advertising that, really, was it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I presume there'd be an array to choose from, but there wasn't. Anyway, but West Ham Bristol City looked really, really good.

Speaker 1 Lucas Bequetto with another wonder pass to set up Jared Bowen, who does anyone bring a football down as well as Jared Bowen? His touch is just absolutely incredible.

Speaker 1 So I just seem to recall him on so many occasions.

Speaker 5 And I'd say Berbatoff. Berbatov is the king of just controlling goal kicks out of the sky with even more grace.
You know, he's like an effective haverts Berbatov, I would say.

Speaker 5 Whereas Bowen is a bit busier about it, but

Speaker 5 I don't dismiss your point.

Speaker 1 I mean, I remember Jared Bowen, I think I've mentioned this before, talking about... working on his fitness on his dad's farm in Hereford.

Speaker 1 And I think I imagine him just having someone launch balls at him

Speaker 1 from distance in a plowed field and he's just bringing them down.

Speaker 41 Someone launching a cabbage at him.

Speaker 5 Although a cabbage. If I remember this, I remember distinctly.
Do you remember someone threw a cabbage at Steve Bruce?

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 41 It came apart as it approached him. So it's sort of like cabbage shrapnel in the Steve Bruce mullet.

Speaker 5 I was filming something where the piece was going to finish with someone throwing a cabbage at my head, and then it transpired that cabbages are really heavy.

Speaker 5 And so, so actually, if you were practicing your control with cabbages,

Speaker 5 every time you controlled it, it would stop dead. So, I don't think it's a I don't think it would be helpful in your footballing situation.

Speaker 1 So, you need a more

Speaker 1 bouncy vegetable.

Speaker 5 Yeah, you need a bouncier vegetable. Yeah,

Speaker 41 anyway, a rolled-up hay bale or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yes, Jared Bowen's ability to take down a football and just kill it is second to none, as far as I can tell. And he scored a brilliant goal.

Speaker 1 Tommy Conway scored a good goal for Bristol City, running on to a lovely through ball from Joe Williams.

Speaker 5 Oh, that pass was amazing.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 through the eye of an eagle. Bristol City keeper Max O'Leary was outstanding.

Speaker 1 Great chances for both teams, and it looked like an absolute ding-dong of a cup tie.

Speaker 5 Also, well done to Bolton, who got a goalless draw at Luton.

Speaker 5 So they get a a replay as well and a word on the other non-league side that was still in it aldershot they did get hammered by west brom it was nice and sunny um it featured miss of the round from layton love clean through and then kicking it almost over the stadium for west brom um but tommy woodrington their manager uh seemed quite the aldershot manager seemed quite happy afterwards they scored that was nice their fans celebrated and they had a you know they had a really good cup run so well done to aldershot um hopefully that didn't sound too patronizing and that'll do for part one part two uh we'll begin at the stadium of Light.

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Speaker 5 Hello.

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Speaker 2 Coach, the energy out there felt different.

Speaker 3 What changed for the team today?

Speaker 4 It was the new game day scratchers from the California Lottery.

Speaker 5 Play is everything.

Speaker 4 Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Speaker 6 Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Speaker 4 Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game. That's all for now.

Speaker 1 Coach, one more question.

Speaker 7 Play the new Los Angeles Chargers, san francisco 49ers and los angeles rams scratchers from the california lottery a little play can make your day please play responsibly must be 18 years or older to purchase play or claim

Speaker 5 welcome to part two of the guardian football weekly ryan says has a team ever been as accommodating to their derby rivals as sunderland were for newcastle decorated their own stadium in black and white opened the scoring for them gifted them a second and a third before letting them take a nice team photo on the pitch.

Speaker 5 Very generous.

Speaker 5 To you, Barry.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 this was a very disappointing performance from Sunderland. You know, in the build-up to the game,

Speaker 1 Newcastle are obviously on this dismal run of form.

Speaker 1 They've got this draw, this horrible draw for them at the stadium alive because

Speaker 1 I wouldn't say everyone was expecting them to win, but if they'd have lost, it would have been embarrassing for them. I think it would have ramped the pressure up on Eddie Howe.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 everyone sort of fancied Sunderland to give them a good game, and that just didn't happen.

Speaker 1 Sunderland, I don't know, their young side. I don't know if they're a bit overwhelmed by the occasion, because many of them will never have played in an atmosphere like that.
But

Speaker 1 they didn't really get anything resembling a foothold in the game until after they were 2-0 down.

Speaker 1 And even then, they were restricted to pot shots from distance, a couple of which could have gone in.

Speaker 1 I think Martin DeBradford got a bit lucky from a Pierre Equa shot that sort of he dived and it hit his foot.

Speaker 1 You could either say it was a very lucky save or a brilliant save. And it was Equa.
That that came moments after Equa had gifted Newcastle their second goal.

Speaker 1 And then Dan Ballard, who had a very strange game insofar as he scored an own goal, which wasn't really his fault. There wasn't much he could do about it.

Speaker 1 He also conceded a penalty he was very lucky not to concede a second penalty and was also one of Sunderland's best players so I think that tells you all you need to know about Sunderland's performance that one of their best players scored a known goal and conceded a penalty it might sound ridiculous Will to say it it felt good that Newcastle still really cared about this game because I think I guess

Speaker 5 some derbies become sort of pity derbies you know when there's a big goal for and I I know Sunderland aren't doing badly in the championship, but these teams are in totally different realms now.

Speaker 5 So it did feel important to me that Newcastle gave a shit. But I guess Newcastle fans will say, well, of course we do.
This game is so historical for us. We haven't played it for years.

Speaker 5 It was an absolute sellout. You could hear the Sunderland fans every time it was like Longstaff had about five chances kept missing and the Sunday fans were getting very excited about it.

Speaker 5 But I was sort of pleased to see that they still cared about it.

Speaker 40 Yeah, they had to put out a strong team purely on the base of their form recently. This is what they've got left to play for.
So that played into the hands of it.

Speaker 40 But it is, you know, it's a sort of microcosm of football. It's all very close, quite tight.
You know, you'll know a lot of each other fans from each the other clubs.

Speaker 40 And on top of that, everyone that ever sees a Newcastle player at the supermarket for the first for two weeks prior to that is going to be in their ear telling them that they need to be up for it.

Speaker 40 Eddie Howe. knows the importance of derbies and that if they did lose, as Barry said, it would have been been a problem for him.

Speaker 40 But the whole pressure at the moment with pretty average form at Newcastle would have been ramped up. And

Speaker 40 the weird attempts at

Speaker 40 welcoming them from Sunderland in the build-up were very odd. And

Speaker 40 having a bit of needle and doing the selfie afterward, the photo afterwards in front of the away fans, it's good fun.

Speaker 40 When these derbies don't come around as often as you may like because every team's in a different division, it doesn't make the rival any different.

Speaker 40 It's not like Sunderland play in a 5,000-seater stadium just down the road it's it's a massive ground it's a massive club packed out and silencing silencing them is as much fun as silencing any premier league team because you know how much they hate you and it was and it you know apart from the fact that sunder was so meek in that first half until it got to 2-0 was you know probably the only negative for newcastle that it was a bit easier and they might want it to they might have wanted a bit more in your face from Sunderland early on.

Speaker 40 But they did their job well, they played well, and you know, they'll be looking at that as a springboard for what comes next after with Man City coming up.

Speaker 40 So it'll be an interesting one if they can build on it.

Speaker 41 The build-up to this game,

Speaker 41 I uh,

Speaker 41 and Barry wrote a piece for this on a Football Daily about Sunderland's redecoration of

Speaker 41 facilities.

Speaker 41 Now, I understand why they did this, because I went to Cardiff Swansea about 10 years ago, and Ellis could tell you about this, where they, you know where they kettle fans in in buses and then when you get into the ground you

Speaker 41 they've painted it in maybe neutral colours at that time or the colours of Swansea to make sure that you don't rip the place down and I pointed this out to the local reporter

Speaker 41 who I know and on Twitter and I received a deluge of people saying but you can't do that you know you can't

Speaker 41 And I did think, isn't this rivalry a bit silly?

Speaker 41 And I'm accused of not knowing anything about the North northeast about football rivalry or being a football fan or anything like that and I do think about this that maybe maybe because I'm

Speaker 41 moving on in years

Speaker 41 that maybe

Speaker 41 because of the profession that I'm in

Speaker 41 I don't take it as seriously as some people but when I look at that and I think people were saying things like well

Speaker 41 that's what we've got stewarding for yeah but the thing is if you're a steward and you are involved in an incident you can still be on an assault charge.

Speaker 41 If someone gets arrested for vandalizing stuff,

Speaker 41 the money, the overtime, is charged by the police to the club and all this type of thing. And I think that's what they attempted to do.

Speaker 1 Now, I'm sure

Speaker 41 they went completely over the top. And it felt there was a bit of devilment, wasn't there, in getting rid of Hawaii and Howwei and cheer up Peter Reed and all that stuff.

Speaker 41 I suspect a Newcastle-based contractor was called in to do this job. But I understand why they tried to dampen this thing down.
And I do think, and I, you know, and this is football.

Speaker 41 Maybe we all need to grow up a bit. Even I've managed to grow up.
But you're talking to someone who still has a

Speaker 5 tattoo of Russell Beardsmore on their bottom.

Speaker 41 No, no, no.

Speaker 41 There's someone who still has a sort of almost Pavlovian reaction to someone wearing a Liverpool shirt. You're talking to someone who,

Speaker 41 in the 30s, me and my mates are in West Park, Macclesfield, and found a Liverpool shirt and we burned it.

Speaker 1 In my 30s, I mean, you know, I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 41 I've been a football journalist for years at that point. But what I'm saying is, I get it, but come on.

Speaker 1 Do you know what? I can kind of see your point of view, John, in that I'm getting old and I care increasingly less about this kind of, you know, fanaticism.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 my understanding is that this rebranding was done in

Speaker 1 the fantasy area, which was going to be full of Newcastle fans paying £600 a head and were unlikely to, you know, turn the place into a Western saloon bar brawl.

Speaker 1 And, you know, by all means, take down some of the Sunderland branding. You don't have to put up Newcastle branding, you know.

Speaker 41 No, no, I agree with that. But I mean, the overall point, I think, was to try and neutralise this behaviour.

Speaker 41 And the reaction, I was like, well, they should, they should, it was as if you couldn't, no one could be trusted to do this. And it was almost as if that was expected.
And I'm sorry, I

Speaker 41 mean, listen, I've never been involved in football violence or anything like that, but sometimes you just take a step back and you think, really?

Speaker 1 Come on.

Speaker 1 As far as I know, they certainly used to, I don't know if they still do, but Brighton, when they opened the Amex, they would light the away end in the colours of the visiting team and in the bars would sell.

Speaker 1 So, say if Newcastle were in town, which is the game I was at,

Speaker 1 my only time at the Amex, they were selling Newcastle Brown Ale.

Speaker 1 You know, they'd sell the local hooch of whatever team was visiting. I presume just as a nice gesture or whatever.
I don't recall anyone ever getting particularly upset about that.

Speaker 5 It's not quite the same, but obviously there are loads of stories about, you know, Tottenham fans who wouldn't buy a JBC telly and Arsenal fans who wouldn't drink Holston pills.

Speaker 5 But Paul Hawksby tells this story that he did a phone-in on this and um

Speaker 5 and uh an Aston Villa fan was with his family I may have told this story before but Aston Villa fans with his family right the pissing rain on the motorway late at night and gets a uh their windscreen gets you know a bird flies into the windscreen right and it's smashed and they're waiting for hours by the side of the road and then the man comes from all windscreens to fix the the

Speaker 5 to fix the windscreen he says nope i can't have a birmingham sponsor fixing this windscreen. We'll wait for someone else.

Speaker 1 I mean, that is real commitment to the cause, isn't it?

Speaker 5 Anyway, Wrexham won one one nil at Shrewsbury. I mean, it's they are the league below.
I mean, Shrewsbury had so many chances in this game.

Speaker 5 Like, like, you know, this is Wrexham absolutely got away with this. I mean, Shrewsbury should have won about 100-nil, Baz.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was remarkable how many chances they missed. And the Wrexham goal wasn't pretty, but they all count.
It certainly wasn't Bamford

Speaker 1 style finish.

Speaker 1 We'll get to him. But

Speaker 1 I had no idea that the Shrewsbury manager is, what's his name? I've now forgotten.

Speaker 5 Portsmouth's Matthew Taylor.

Speaker 1 Portsmouth Smaty Taylor, yes.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, another blast from the past. I like that about the third round.
You get a lot of blasts from the past.

Speaker 1 Former Sunderland Invertacomas legend and Scotland International, he scored Eastley's equaliser.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 yeah, quite how Shrewsbury contrive to lose that game is remarkable. But, you know, hopefully Wrexham will get a big draw in the

Speaker 1 fourth round because they have been somewhat starved of publicity and finances in recent seasons.

Speaker 5 I think, welcome to Wrexham won an Emmy last night, I think.

Speaker 5 So

Speaker 5 well done to them.

Speaker 1 Good day for them.

Speaker 5 Absolutely. Or a Golden Globe or some sort of thing.

Speaker 5 You were at Gillingham for the to see Chevy United winner game, John. I'm afraid we don't really, not really a lot we need to say about it.

Speaker 5 But from I enjoyed the Gillingham defending for one of James McAtee's goals where they just all

Speaker 5 just disappeared. It was like the Red Sea, wasn't it?

Speaker 41 Yeah, he really enjoyed himself. Very talented player.
Obviously playing maybe a few levels against players below his level, and he enjoyed it.

Speaker 41 What did he enjoy about this?

Speaker 1 Uh,

Speaker 41 good uh, indie pre-match thing, including our friends the Cortinas, um, and uh,

Speaker 41 being quite close to hear Chris Wilder screaming at his team.

Speaker 41 Oh, I'd be very afraid if I was a Sheffield United player, and also post-match in which he was asked, you know, will you be taking the lads away to Dubai or whatever?

Speaker 1 Nope, uh,

Speaker 41 no, uh, two weeks working hard on the training ground. So good luck, Sheffield United players.
You're in for a treat.

Speaker 5 Will, you're at Stoke for Stoke two, Brighton four, of which Pervis Estepinian's goal was the highlight, certainly for me, anyway.

Speaker 40 Yeah, it turns out that just whacking the ball really hard from distance with a very good left foot, a cultured left foot, because all

Speaker 40 left-footed players are cultured, is a good idea.

Speaker 40 Brighton were pretty

Speaker 40 dominate possession, but were playing at about 75% of the general tempo they should be but if you score a goal in the fifth minute of stoppage time in the first half when from nothing from a ball coming out to the edge of the box because your left back is really really good at football and kicking the ball very very hard then it you know kick-started momentum they considered a penalty to take it back to 2-2 but they're just far too much quality.

Speaker 40 The main thing I took out of it was I was very surprised to find out that former Aston Villa striker Wesley plays for Stoke. Yes.
And that was his 19th appearance of the season. And he's yet to score.

Speaker 40 And he's yet to score because he is the most immobile forward I've seen in the professional game.

Speaker 1 He could not move.

Speaker 40 It was an issue for him. Tremendous.
And also,

Speaker 40 Mamedi Sadibi's 16-year-old son came off the bench for Stoke, which was fantastic. Mamedi, who

Speaker 41 I think he's played before.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I saw him early the season.

Speaker 40 It was his fourth appearance or something. His father still owns a bakery in.
in in Stoke or the vicinity of.

Speaker 40 So yeah, it did make me feel very old.

Speaker 5 I was going to say, does that make you feel older than danny cadamatri's son like because you know as we've already established danny cadamatri can only be 22 himself i keep thinking that's danny cadamatri

Speaker 5 not his son um i also uh on on names um what for's equalizer was set up by someone called yasa aspria and i did check he's no relation to tino aspria um finally for part two andrew says did the absence of var in most of the games highlight how pernicious and unnecessary a tool it actually is there was football there were referees and fans it was entertainment and it worked.

Speaker 1 Baz?

Speaker 1 I think so. Yeah, I

Speaker 1 well, I didn't enjoy the Newcastle or Sunderland Newcastle game, but I think

Speaker 1 if Varr had been employed for that game, it would still be going on.

Speaker 1 Um, because there were some quite meaty challenges and uh

Speaker 1 decisions that if Varr had got involved, it could have taken ages.

Speaker 42 Um, there's one in particular that springs to mind.

Speaker 1 It was a penalty call.

Speaker 5 The Ballard on Isaac, penalty call, that one?

Speaker 1 Ballard on Isaac, yeah. And then there was another one as well.
I think a potential handball. But please excuse my bad memory, but just so much football over such a

Speaker 1 short space of time. There was, you know, just the refs were making decisions.
Some of them were a bit contentious. Some of them were wrong, but you know, it wasn't the end of the world.

Speaker 40 And if Varr had been involved, there'd still have been contentious decisions and some of them would still have been wrong so but look it's here it's not going away so just have to enjoy the the games we see where it isn't involved that's stoked lewis dunk got done for a handball it was a header from a couple yards away off the corner looked like it might have hit another part of dunk's body for hitting his hand his heart his arm was outstretched and it you know definitely hit his hand paul tierney who's one of the premier leagues you know more highly rated referees overall gave it straight away there was a bit of moaning then everyone gave up and they took the penalty it was quite it was quite nice just to you saw two replays you know you get a little screen in the press box you get a couple of replays like yeah maybe whatever looks it's justifiable that's fine take the penalty everyone moved on i mean you you had six minutes of injury time through injuries in both halves uh at stoke so i quite enjoyed the fact that it was really quick no messing about it was a handball that really made me angry but you're right i didn't have time to get even angrier because they didn't show me a thousand replays of it.

Speaker 5 Anyway, that'll do for part two. We'll begin part three with Patrick Bamford.

Speaker 9 Hi, Pod fans of America. Max here.
Barry's here too.

Speaker 5 Hello.

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Speaker 1 A proper football journalist, man.

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Speaker 2 Coach, the energy out there felt different.

Speaker 3 What changed for the team today?

Speaker 4 It was the new game, Day Scratchers from the California Lottery.

Speaker 5 Play is everything.

Speaker 4 Those games sent the team's energy through the roof.

Speaker 6 Are you saying it was the off-field play that made the difference on the field?

Speaker 4 Hey, a little play makes your day, and today it made the game. That's all for now.

Speaker 7 coach one more question play the new los angeles chargers san francisco 49ers and los angeles rams scratchers from the california lottery a little play can make your day please play responsibly must be 18 years or older to purchase play or claim

Speaker 5 Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Jay says, why is Patrick Bamford not on that plane after that goal?

Speaker 5 Wayne, how good was it to see A, Patrick Bamford score a worldie after two awful years b for it to be against peterborough um he said afterwards it was a nice goal a goal's a goal i'd be equally happy if i scored a tap in but john that was absolutely joyous that goal wasn't it oh it's a beauty uh it's it's goal of the season surely um

Speaker 41 hang on is that a better goal than garnacho i'm saying i think so I think it is, yeah.

Speaker 5 I think there's less fortune involved in Bamford's.

Speaker 1 That's all skill.

Speaker 41 The problem with with Garnacho's thing is he keeps trying it and he's diluting how good that goal is.

Speaker 41 Whereas Bamford, he's not going to get the opportunities. I mean, just the take and oh, yeah, it's a, it's a, you know, it needs

Speaker 41 it needs a 70s crowd. It needs the advert selling Rizzler and, you know, Bass Bitter or whatever, and a Barry Davis commentary to make it, you know, an all-time classic.

Speaker 41 It's that sort of vintage of goal, isn't it? It's absolutely beautiful. And the hair, the hair as well is amazing.

Speaker 1 I think there's probably people listening who haven't seen it. So it's kind of a long diagonal to

Speaker 1 what, five or six yards outside the penalty area from Ethan Ampidou.

Speaker 1 He takes it down at the very top of his chest and then in one move turns and spanks a volley. with his left foot.
Brilliant technique straight into the back of the net.

Speaker 1 And you know, it's brilliant when his own players put their hands on their, or his own teammates put their hands on their heads with disbelief, opposition players put their hands on their head, reacting with disbelief, and one of the Peterborough stewards actually does a fish pump.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5 I mean, there's something about a centre-forward just chesting one out of the sky anyway, let alone then swiveling and absolutely melting this ball. And he doesn't have time to look at the goal.

Speaker 5 He's just, it's all sort of

Speaker 5 instinct but just pure quality and he's got that bamford like he's got that ability i know there was sort of talk a few years ago of whether he would be the player you'd put lit put on that plane if harry kane you know just in case harry kane got injured because he can bring others into play he's already had a really rough time of things and yeah i think everyone was utterly delighted to see that go in uh ethan ambadou had never scored an english football before scored two and set that one up but no one's talking about it because he didn't do what patrick bamford did i was going to say we taught patrick bamford all he knows of course after he

Speaker 41 came. He may or may not have attended our lead show.

Speaker 5 Unconfirmed. Unconfirmed.
And if he did go, he will have heard the story you told, John, that can never be told again. That's true.

Speaker 1 Another good goal was

Speaker 5 Pedro Porro's brilliant goal for Spurs against Burnley. I thought that would be the goal of the round until Bamford and a couple of others absolutely smashed that ball in.

Speaker 5 But I mean, the more interesting stories about Spurs are transfer-based. Edward says, are Spurs basing their management hires and player recruitment on your hot takes on the pod?

Speaker 5 Max James, is Ange bringing in Timo Werner the most max transfer ever? Hashtag bucket loads.

Speaker 5 Sebo saying there are a few things funnier than Timo Werner scoring the buckets he was meant to for Chelsea at Spurs. I can't think of those funnier things right now, but I'm sure they exist.

Speaker 32 John, you're not, I think this is a really good

Speaker 1 purchase.

Speaker 5 You can't really buy anyone in January. He really is, he's incredibly quick.

Speaker 5 He needs a manager who loves him, and like you know, and that's what Ange will do.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 5 and I just think he'll just think he'll score buckets.

Speaker 41 No, I mean,

Speaker 41 Andre's a good repairer of players, isn't he? That's true. That's true.

Speaker 5 He's like the repair shop. People, I've brought you in Tim O'Hana, and then Ange delicately takes a whittle to him and a lathe or whatever, and he comes back and he's fully RB Leipzig.

Speaker 41 I've got you a V8 ute.

Speaker 1 What can you do with it? Yeah.

Speaker 41 But I mean, he,

Speaker 41 I suppose the thing is, though, that there is a slight element that Timo is damaged goods in that he can't get into the Germany team at the moment.

Speaker 41 Now, I think we're all agreed, and you always write them off at your peril, but this is not a great Germany team.

Speaker 41 And that's part of the move.

Speaker 41 He's trying to put himself in the window, so to speak, into Julian Nagelsman's attraction,

Speaker 41 it's his eye line by by moving to the Premier League. But, and I agree with this point, actually.

Speaker 41 He has the pace, he has the positional awareness that we're probably working in Anne's team. Does he have the finishing skills?

Speaker 41 Well, anyone who watched him play at Stamford Bridge over those couple of years will know that finishing is not his great, it's not his strongest point, but he is a cult here at Chelsea.

Speaker 1 For actually, playing with the camera.

Speaker 1 Not anymore, he's not, I imagine. Well, yes,

Speaker 41 that cult may have reached its end, yes.

Speaker 41 Fort playing very, very well when they reached the Champions League final. One, of course, played a big part on that night.

Speaker 41 Signing a striker that's known for missing a lot, they always tend to miss a lot, don't they?

Speaker 41 Yes, you might be right.

Speaker 41 No, but as you say, Max, there's not a lot else out there, and Spurs do need bodies in because it would appear Madison, his injury is quite serious, and Son isn't going to to be back till we don't know, mid-February, it could be.

Speaker 40 So, yeah, it's a more sensible loan signing than Vutenvet course last season. So, at least he looks like he might be a pending player and might fit into the system.

Speaker 40 So, fair play to talk to them on that. That they've acted swiftly and signed a.

Speaker 41 I was hoping Big Sejim might get Big Valt back.

Speaker 40 You know, it could you do need a sensitive back, to be fair. So, he could be

Speaker 1 putting it.

Speaker 5 Well, what do you make of Eric Dyer to buy in Munich? Um, that sort of made my eyes, my eyebrows, I raised my eyebrows slightly when I heard it.

Speaker 41 Do you think Harry Kane's hotel room will have an adjoining door to Eric Dyer's?

Speaker 40 Harry's moved, unfortunately.

Speaker 5 I don't think Bayern will put Eric Dyer in the same quality hotel room.

Speaker 40 Harry Kane rented one of the houses of someone out on loan or someone Bayer have sold. So maybe like, maybe the pool, the pool house will be for Eric and it'll sort of be like Kirby Enthusiasm.

Speaker 1 Eric's out there pops in every day.

Speaker 40 It's just nice to have friends though, isn't it?

Speaker 40 you know dyer's a perfectly competent sensor bat maybe not a top six level at this stage of his career but you know you don't have to be for most of the league games for buying you can have quite a relaxed time he seems like a relatively decent blow speaks a couple of languages yeah you know if you're not going to use him at spurs you might as well have a change of scenery in munich probably play about half the league games and get a winner's medal at the end of the season and i think it's a brilliant move for him and i think he will be i think he's kind of loved by tottenh fans because like you say say, he's a good guy.

Speaker 5 He's been a great servant. He's clearly not in Andrew's pants.
But it would be so wonderful for him and his career to go somewhere.

Speaker 5 And he could come away with a league title and a Champions League winner's medal. It's not inconceivable if you go to Buy Me.

Speaker 41 And he is quite, as Will said, that's a good point. He's quite a cultured lad.
Do you think he's going to take, you know, him and Harry will do a few galleries or, you know?

Speaker 5 Just hang out in the Tier Garden. I mean, it's beautiful.
That is one of the most beautiful parks in the world.

Speaker 1 world. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They could go down the U-burn and look at my blue plaque.

Speaker 5 Good. Simon says,

Speaker 5 judging by just how quickly Jordan Henderson's completed his mission to grow the game successfully in Saudi Arabia, how quickly would he get the economy growing again if we made him Chancellor of the Exchequer?

Speaker 5 Yeah, this is the news, Barry, that

Speaker 5 Jordan Henderson turns out isn't that excited playing in front of sparse crowds in a poorly managed Aletifac.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it seems to be a genuine story. It's been sort of fed to lots of the Liverpool correspondents.

Speaker 1 I think Matt Hughes broke it in the Daily Mail.

Speaker 1 He's generally on the ball.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 it just seems like poor old Jordan really didn't do his due diligence before going to Saudi Arabia. He he seems surprised that it's quite hot and muggy out there,

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 Etifac aren't drawing big crowds. I think their average crowd is 7,000.
Often they play in front of quite

Speaker 1 a smaller number than that. The team isn't performing well.
Stephen Girard's job is under threat. Stephen Girard's assistant has just left to go and manage Plymouth.
And

Speaker 1 so it's all going wrong for Jordan. And I think, you know, people make bad decisions and they're entitled to change their minds.
But if he does come back he will of course be pilloried because

Speaker 1 of the whole LGBTQ plus business where he's uh

Speaker 1 the hypocrisy he's shown and

Speaker 1 members of that community have have accused him of betrayal and I think they're perfectly entitled to

Speaker 1 and so if he does come back where where does he go I think

Speaker 1 There has been talk linking him with a move to Newcastle, which would be interesting considering he's a Sunderland lad, born and bred.

Speaker 1 And that would be another misstep, which would make him even more unpopular. I presume he also still fancies his chance of getting in the England squad

Speaker 1 for the Euros. And I would imagine that is unlikely to happen unless he comes back to the Premier League.

Speaker 5 I mean, I guess the point is, John, he's...

Speaker 5 Like, he was playing quite regularly in the Premier League not that long ago. And in pure footballing terms, you know, he's super experienced.
He is a good person in the dressing room.

Speaker 5 And all those things would help quite a lot of Premier League sides, you'd imagine.

Speaker 41 Yeah, I suppose

Speaker 41 if you're a struggling team, you want to maybe add a player of experience. I suppose that there's this question of how much is left in Jordan Henderson's legs.

Speaker 41 It's clear that Liverpool didn't feel there was.

Speaker 41 And

Speaker 41 Jung Klopp and Henderson had a chat, which was essentially, listen, you're not going to be a first choice next season. That sped the decision up.
But in the Premier League, you need legs, don't you?

Speaker 41 And

Speaker 41 is he going to be one of these players that, when they get a bit old, they just do a lot of pointing rather than actual running?

Speaker 41 I suppose one thing is actually it could be a boost to the economy if he comes back because

Speaker 41 they'll be faced with a fairly enormous tax bill. So this could be the lift that Rishi needs,

Speaker 41 the return of Jordan Henderson with his wages. Actually, I'm struggling to think of a club who would, you know, you're maybe a forest or someone like that

Speaker 41 where he'd fit in, but it's going to be difficult.

Speaker 41 Also, his wages are not going to be high, are they? Does he need the money, I suppose?

Speaker 41 And as Barry said,

Speaker 41 the hypocrisy that he was accused of, that interview with Adam Craft and David Ornstein, which didn't really further his cause particularly much, it backfired a bit.

Speaker 1 I would say it made it worse. Yes,

Speaker 1 yes, absolutely.

Speaker 41 He's He's got a lot of rowing back to do.

Speaker 41 A good look to him, because listen, I don't think Jordan Henderson is a bad person in any sense, but I think

Speaker 41 a misfire, a misadventure,

Speaker 41 and it could be a useful play for somebody, but

Speaker 41 it's an embarrassment really for him to have to come back after so little time, really.

Speaker 1 And of course, there's every chance that Etifac won't let him come back because it would be an embarrassment for them and the Saudi league if he left this quickly yeah in which case best of luck

Speaker 5 i think you're probably right um can i point you in the direction of the guardian women's football weekly news of another acl sam kerr obviously one of the best players in the league and the world um did her acl uh uh out at a sort of summer uh training camp yeah with chelsea which is devastating news for her it's not her first acl i don't think um and they were discussing that amongst all the other things uh going on in the women's game i've finally some pascal chimbonda news will obviously you've been following Skelmersdale United.

Speaker 5 He is their manager.

Speaker 26 And

Speaker 5 here is a statement regarding his five-match stadium ban.

Speaker 5 Following today's personal hearing, the FA Appeal Board agreed by majority that the five-match stadium ban originally imposed on Pascal Chimbanda to be excessive.

Speaker 5 In order to give effect to this decision, the appeal board have now issued Pascal with a three-match touchline ban and have issued him with a £50 fine.

Speaker 5 Although we believe the punishment is still excessive, we're much happier with the outcome. This will allow Pascal to continue working.

Speaker 5 Whereas the original ban, had it been upheld, would have prevented him from doing so.

Speaker 5 Providing there aren't any postponements over the next few games, Pascal will be able to return to the dugouts in time for our away game at Gig Lane Berry.

Speaker 5 In other news, Pascal is now registered as a player, and we could see, indeed, see him play against Berry on Saturday, the 27th of January.

Speaker 5 So does that mean he can't does the ban still last for three games? Or can he register as a player and therefore put himself on the bench?

Speaker 40 Yeah, I but can't sit on the bench, but maybe if he wants to come, he could just run straight from the changing rooms out onto the pitch.

Speaker 5 It's not as good as I originally thought. I thought they were, I think this is the same band, it's the same length of band.

Speaker 5 It'd be much more fun if, uh, in that other news, uh, he could come on and just play the next game.

Speaker 40 I hope he's coughed up the 50 quid.

Speaker 5 Yeah, I'm sure he will have done. You've chatted to Pascal, he's a man of honour.

Speaker 40 Well, he's not. Well, I've got an exclusive of whether he is or not.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 40 So when I went to the game against Kendall Town, I was in earshot of Pascal and the Kendall Town chairman, and they had a bit of back and forth. This would make it into my piece.
And

Speaker 40 the Kendall Town chairman said, well, you know,

Speaker 40 it's your first game, you know, but we're playing you in December. If you you beat us, I'll buy you dinner.
And if

Speaker 40 we we beat you, you buy me dinner. And that that game obviously took place in December.
Kendalltown won.

Speaker 40 And the Kendalltown chairman is yet to hear from Pascal about the dinner.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 41 Not even got a mint cake out of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 40 So he wants a steak dinner at Miller and Carter.

Speaker 40 I can tell you that exclusively.

Speaker 41 What's Miller and Carter? I think it's not like Frankie and Benny's.

Speaker 40 It's a sort of steakhouse chain of I would describe as mid-range.

Speaker 5 A mid-range steakhouse chain. That's exactly.

Speaker 5 Is it

Speaker 1 better or worse than Angus.

Speaker 40 I take it back.

Speaker 5 Better than the Aberdeen Angus the red signage. Okay, that's good.

Speaker 41 That you've never seen anyone go in or come out of.

Speaker 1 No, I don't know anyone who's ever eaten in one of them, but they always appear to be full.

Speaker 41 Yeah. But you've never seen anyone come out of there, have you?

Speaker 40 Are you saying they're all actors?

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 5 If you've never seen anyone come out, but it's full, have they been in there forever? Like, do they need, yeah, do they need rescuing?

Speaker 5 You need to.

Speaker 5 A a negotiator standing outside all the Abbey Angus steakhouses going on.

Speaker 5 We'll get you out of here.

Speaker 5 Anyway, that'll do for today, I imagine.

Speaker 5 Thank you so much, Will.

Speaker 1 Thank you very much, Max. Thank you, Barry.
Thanks, Max.

Speaker 41 Thank you, John. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 5 Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.
We'll do a Europod tomorrow.

Speaker 1 This is The Guardian.