Liverpool look limp against Galatasaray and Spurs steal a point at Bodø/Glimt – Football Weekly

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Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

Another defeat for Liverpool this time in the Champions League at Galatasarayana.

Slot side were defensively poor and loose in midfield.

Soberslai struggled at right back.

Salah was rested.

Allison came off injured.

Not a great night, but perhaps a little early to panic.

Then let's go four and a half thousand kilometers north where we find a wind swept Jonathan Wilson live from Bodo, watching a stodgy Spurs somehow get away with a point.

Jose took Benfica to Stamford Bridge and he was mildly more interesting than the game, which isn't saying much, but Mareska needed a win and he got it.

Then there's lots of goals for Real Madrid, Marsley, Athleti, and Bayern, amongst others.

We'll look back on Nuno's first game as West Ham Boston Everton.

There's Chris Wilder with the cleanest strike of the night.

Your questions?

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hi, Max.

Hi, Nicki Bandini.

Hello.

Morning.

And surrounded by polar bears, fjords, and herring.

Do excuse us to our Norwegian listeners.

Jonathan Wilson, live from how do you pronounce it, Buddha?

I don't know, to be honest, because with the fans last night seemed to be able to say Buddha with almost a new sound, but

fine.

Well, we'll get there in a second, but we'll we'll begin in Turkey.

Galatasarai won at Liverpool Mill.

Galatasarai hadn't won at home in the Champions League for seven years.

And Nikki, they were your dark horses in the Champions League ahead of the opening game, which they then lost 5-1.

But perhaps this is vindication for you.

Yeah, I didn't mean dark horses to win the whole thing.

I just thought they might be an interesting and

perhaps better than they have been recently in the Champions League team this season because they have had a bit of a dreadful record in the Champions League recently.

But when you look at what they've put together this summer, obviously bringing back Victor Ossman was the headline move, but also added Leroy Sanny this summer.

You're looking at a midfield going into the attack where you've already got players like Terera and Lamina, you've got Gundigan in front of them, you've got Maru Akadi as your backup striker.

There's just a lot.

There's a lot in this team, especially going forward.

And the Turkish League, which certainly has its faults like every other league, but it is quite a chaotic attacking place.

And I kind of imagined them showing up under Buruk and playing the kind of football that they did, at least in the first half last night.

I don't think I'd quite go as far as Arnis Lott and say they were just time-waiting in the second half, but they did, I think, become a little bit less just endlessly in your face.

But the start of this game was everything I wanted it to be, honestly.

It was noisy, it was hot, it was angry, and it was just in your face.

And yes, they are,

again, a team with plenty of faults, Galatastroi, but when they go at you, they can go at you.

And you had this end-to-end business going on with Yilmaz got in in behind the Liverpool defense right away.

And then Liverpool go down the other end and frankly should score with Ekotike and then Gakpo.

Then Vertz loses possession.

The next thing you know, 20 seconds later, it's back in the Liverpool penalty box and they give away the penalty, which ends up being the moment that decides the game.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you can sort of whistle your fingers to the bone, but you know, if anyone has, the Galatasarai fans have.

Barry, the Guardian headline called it a hellish night for Liverpool.

I couldn't work out if that was like a sort of a play on Welcome to Hell or if it was hellish or hell-ish.

Like,

how bad do you think it was for Liverpool?

That seems like a bit of a stretch, even if they weren't great.

I'm guessing it was a play on words on the Welcome to Hell thing.

But it wasn't a good performance for Liverpool.

It's the second defeat in a row.

They had been playing, I suppose we could charitably say, well within themselves and winning.

Now,

they've lost two in a row.

And I guess the more often they lose, the less other teams will fear them, which could lead to more defeats.

As a result, it's probably going to end up being pretty inconsequential because of this new-ish Champions League format.

But there is plenty to be concerned about if you're a Liverpool fan now that they've lost two in a row, I suppose, because

far too many of their players are out of sorts.

I guess you can give Frimpong, Kirkes, and Verts a pass because they're new, they're getting accustomed to this new team, to living in a new country.

Dominic Spozlai did okay at right back in a couple of games this season.

He was horribly exposed last night by Barris Yilmaz who skinned him on a few occasions, one of which led to the penalty being given.

When you play him at right back,

you're losing a very good midfielder.

Connor Bradley hasn't been great great when he's played.

He's been okay, I guess.

Ibrahima Kenate is making a lot of mistakes.

Mo Sala, was he rested or dropped last night?

I don't know, but he hasn't been playing to his usual high standards.

And I think the only Liverpool players who've been really

good this season so far are Allison, who's now injured.

and he will miss the Chelsea game.

Ekatike has bedded in very well, very quickly.

And Sabozlai has played well when in his natural midfield position.

But the rest of them are all a bit.

So that will be a source of concern.

Yeah, I suppose depth is good, Wilson, isn't it?

But it's when you have an embarrassment of riches and they're trying to work out who should play where.

And if someone doesn't have a perfect game, then you can move someone else in because you've got them there.

It's quite hard to find the balance.

And the balance is exactly what they had last season.

Yeah, they're incredibly well balanced last season.

They've tried to change that shape from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1.

I'm not sure that's really worked.

I think their best forms have come when they have played 4-3-3.

So the late on against Atletico,

they went to the 3.

Even that hasn't been perfect.

I wonder, weirdly, if they're missing Alexander Arnold, less for what he does at right back than for the way he tucks into midfield.

I think maybe he gave him a bit more cover.

than we appreciated in there.

So you're saying he was defensively...

It's the defensive abilities of Trent Alexander Arnold we're missing after years of saying he can't defend.

Well, I think he's not a great one-on-one defender, but in terms of taking up a role almost alongside Grafenberg, relieving some of the burden on McAllister, I think he did do that.

I think one of the reasons Salah hasn't really fired this season is that he hasn't got Alexander Arnold playing those very quick 30, 40 yard passes, which we almost have, we got so used to them, we almost stopped noticing them.

But Finpong is just a very different type of fullback.

I'm not saying he's a worst fullback but he carries the ball he doesn't he doesn't play those quick 30 40 yard balls so salah is not getting that early possession and that requires an adjustment and that's the problem when you bring in half a dozen new players that each one of these little tweaks which might take you down two three four percent you can sort of accommodate that when there's one or two of them but when there's five or six of them you're losing 20 30 percent add to that the fact that mcalister Yeah, I know he had the injuries over the summer, but he doesn't look he's you know, he's not in the sort of form he was last season.

I think Verta struggled physically to settle in, which again, when you bring new players in, sometimes it does take time to settle.

That's not saying Wirta will never play well for Liverpool, but it is saying that at the moment, he's finding that transition difficult.

I just want to basically just agree really hard with that overall view on it, because I did feel like last night.

I mean, obviously Galachasare come in with a certain mindset.

They are, again, they're very in your face.

They were always going to press high.

They were always going to try and rely on that atmosphere they have and make it tough for you.

But the amount of times they were stealing possession off the centre-backs and off

those balls that were trying to be played into the midfielders,

it was constant.

And I think that a lot of that is exactly what Jonathan's talking about.

It's not these are suddenly terrible players, but it's that fraction of a second slower than it would have been if everyone was familiar with each other and comfortable with each other.

And I think that at least looking at this game on its own, of course, there is a big picture.

It is, oh my goodness, crisis, two losses in a row.

Let's get this lot out of here now.

But on the night, I did feel like a lot of it was simply that slight feeling of not having your automatisms down, not having your smoothness in the way you get the ball out.

And to me, I think that was a big part of the story in this game, combined with, again, just back from injury, but I thought Osamen's finishing wasn't great, but

his willingness and timing with getting after those defenders was very effective.

Nick, are you surprised?

I mean, you've seen more of Osamen than the rest of it, I guess.

Are you surprised that he is only, with all due respect to our Turkish listeners, in the Turkish league?

I will always bang the drum for Osman.

I think he's one of the absolute best number nines on the planet.

I don't think there's many players at all in the world who can do what he can do.

And I think

I really think he's maybe like in my top three number nines.

And I think it's astonishing that no one was willing to put

the money forward from him from a league as wealthy and as

deep in resources as the Premier League.

I just assumed that was what was going to happen.

That's not at all a knock on Galatasra who did put their hands in their pocket and make it happen.

It's just a reality that you expect the Premier League clubs to do it.

Of course, there's always more to these situations.

And I'm certain that his injury history comes into it because he has been missing a lot and that's part of it.

I think probably this summer, unfortunately, there was also an element of people looking at the Africa Cup of Nations and thinking about players being away because I think that also hurt Adam Ella Luckman this summer.

So I think those things come into it as well.

But clearly, given the amount of conversations there were about him last summer, it seems obvious to me there's something else that has happened behind the scenes and discussions that has led people to not go for him a year ago.

And to me, it's impossible to know without knowing what those conversations were, how valid it is.

Is it a certain amount of group think and of people looking at each other and going, oh, they didn't do it, so we won't pull the trigger either?

Or is there something else that we just don't know?

But I think as a football player, just purely his talent on the pitch,

I think he's sensational.

And I think that we'll see it again.

It's one of the reasons why, it's probably the biggest reason why I put Galatasaray as a dark horse for this year is because I just think when he's on the pitch,

he's outrageously talented.

Although potentially not the most dangerous group think doing the rounds on earth at the moment.

Did you think, I wonder if Sabazlo was a bit unlucky, Barry, for the penalty?

Is that a blatant penalty?

I wasn't hugely surprised it was given.

If it hadn't been given, I wouldn't have thought it was a travesty of justice either.

He was really struggling against Yilmaz, and that may have been a factor, but

it's probably 50-50.

I wouldn't say it was.

I have no issue with it.

Fine.

Yeah, I couldn't work out the goal music.

It sounded a bit like I Will Survive, which I'm a big fan of having that as, I don't know if that's all Galatasra's goal music or Victor Osserman specifically.

It might not be that song.

I'm curious to know, Max, how many Turkish listeners do you think we have?

I believe we have the technology.

We could find out, but I don't know how quickly producer Joel can find out.

Normally, he just turns off his, he turns off his screen on the Zoom call, I presume, just Just goes for a run or something.

Goes back to bed.

I reckon we're in the high hundreds, I reckon.

Okay.

I reckon, but you know, I'm happy to, I'm happy.

If I'm wrong, I'm happy to be wrong.

Let's go to Bodo, who drew 2-2 with Tottenham.

They dominated this game, I thought, and were pretty unlucky not to win it.

You're talking about Glimpt, though, right?

They were unlucky.

I am talking about Glimpt.

I am talking about Glimpt, yes.

Yes.

They were, yeah, for the first hour, they were startlingly dominant.

Ms.

Ms.

Spurs barely got her own half.

Herg missed the penalty.

I think one of the worst penalty misses I've ever seen, actually, is.

It's amazing, isn't it?

So hard.

He apparently missed one last week, Herg.

Yeah.

It went over the goal, over the stand, and unfortunately, there's some netting between flagpoles and the back of the stand, and it hit the netting.

I think that netting hadn't been there, I think it would have gone over the houses on the other side of the street.

And I'm slightly disappointed we didn't see just how far that ball could have gone.

It was a big moment because it would have been Glimpt's first ever home goal in the Champions League group stage.

And that was sort of the nice thing about yesterday was that it's very easy to get,

and I realise that I'm as probably worse than anybody else at this, it's easy to get cynical about the Champions League.

But for Glimpt, it's a big thing.

They really were excited to be in it.

And it's a small town, 50,000 people.

But everywhere you went, there was yellow flags hanging out of windows.

Everybody was extremely welcoming.

There was a real sort of sense of, we can't believe, we can't quite believe we're hosting this thing.

Pre-match or singing of the anthem and the fireworks was all, it was, you know, quite moving, actually, to see just how invested people are in this.

And it is a ridiculous story.

I mean, they are a tiny team.

They haven't had huge amounts of money put into them.

It's all Kettle Knutson's management.

And they should have won that game.

And I think if it hadn't been to that sense that they can't quite believe they're there, they would actually have been pretty frustrated to have drawn that match.

Yeah.

I mean, yes, Peter Hauger scored two brilliant goals.

And we mentioned, you know, Sobersley, not a right back, struggling at right back.

Pedro Porro is a right back, was turned inside out for his first and turned inside out for the second.

But they were brilliant goals, weren't they?

I mean, he had a really good night, Hauger.

And Thomas Frank actually said afterwards that it was one of those sort of slightly odd questions you get from

the other team's journalists where he was asked, did anything surprise you about Glimt?

And normally you don't get anything like that kind of question.

But Thomas Strong was actually really interesting at saying, yeah, when we watched them, I didn't cut inside like that.

So we weren't expecting it.

But I mean, Hauger very nearly scored in the first half as well, a similar chance.

So he cut in from the left and it just sort of pulled it slightly into the side netting.

He's only 25, he's had an incredibly sort of rich career already.

He played over 100 games for Glimt, then went to

straight to Milan and then ended up at Antrak Frankfurt, played in the final when they won won the Europa League.

I think he might be the only Norwegian ever to won the Europa League.

He's certainly the first.

And now 25 is back.

He's a local lad.

So for him to score those two goals in their first ever home group game, it obviously meant a huge amount to him.

Jonathan was talking about the atmosphere and the fans.

There was that, I saw a picture of the TIFO, which I think was

like it looked like it was a kid with a ball saying, We've got you, you've got this.

And it was just a very wholesome-looking TIFO.

And I wasn't sure if that was supposed to be a particular player or if it was just like a generic

community thing.

But I didn't know if Jonathan had any more insight on that.

It just felt like

we're so used to seeing combative choreographies, combative, like angry roar.

And this was just like a we're all here and we're all a family kind of thing.

It was, it seemed sweet.

Yeah, I think it was generic.

I don't know.

I mean, to be honest, that slightly.

I was slightly alarmed by the tweenness of that.

If there's anything that makes me feel ill, it's tweenness.

I think what they've done to the Paddington franchise is, you know, take me back to the Michael Hordon Paddington.

I just hate the modern Paddington.

I mean, how adversarial was original Paddington?

I mean, actually, he was.

He often gave people a hard stare.

He took their prisoners.

He stole that rugby ball, didn't he?

He did steal that rugby ball.

Yeah, that's true.

Away days with Paddington.

That's the story.

Thomas Frank Barry talked about attitude and mentality and determination.

The positive takeaway is get something when being not very good.

And the second half against Wolves and pretty much all this game could be filed under that category.

Yeah, I think they were very lucky in this game because, as Jonathan said, Bodo Glimps should have won at a canter.

They missed some terrible

sitters, I guess, and missed the penalty.

The goal with which the own goal with which Spurs equalise was a little bit lucky, but

it's a good hit and run, I suppose.

They've got four points from two games.

They should be fine in terms of qualification.

If you look at the Monaco, Copenhagen, PSG, Slavian Prague, Brissie, Dortmund, Eigentrech, Frankfurt, you'd imagine they'll get the eight or nine points.

They'll probably need to make the knockout stages from those games fairly comfortably.

But

I would be concerned with that performance.

You're going to a weird place, playing on a weird artificial pitch against a team for whom this is a massive, massive, massive game.

So a draw

is fine in terms of the result, but the performance wasn't great.

They are missing quite a few influential players.

Kulasevsky, Muani, Madison, Solanke, Romero were all out last night.

So yeah, I wouldn't be worried about it particularly.

Sure.

I mean, I guess of those missing players, players kudasesky and madison are the creative ones and they're out for a long time so yeah sort of hoping that Xavi Simmons can perhaps sort of bring that creativity the artificial pitch wasn't I mean when you're there you probably get a much better sense of how stodgy it is or how difficult it is to play on if you don't play on it very often I mean Thomas Frank played that down and he sort of said that he was used to it from Denmark that you know it's it just is what it is.

They didn't train on the pitch on Monday that he felt keeping his tactical plans on the wrapped was more important than gaining experience of it.

To be honest, once the game started, I kind of forgot about it.

So I don't think it's that bigger.

I mean, yeah, maybe players

would say, no, the ball does come on slightly slower or it does skid on slightly more.

I don't know, but to sort of a lay person in the stand, it really wasn't obvious it was making a difference.

Sure, not a sandy astro, the good old days where the ball bounced 300 yards in the sky and you just all the skin off your knees was ripped off.

It wasn't sort of loftus road in the 80s.

And I think, yeah, you've got to sort of, I think, what's the the alternative?

Is that a better surface to play football on, or a pitch that gets, you know, minus 15 degrees in the winter?

And I mean, the weather's actually been really nice here the last couple of days.

It's been sort of, I don't know, 10, 15 degrees, quite bright.

So I think it's, it probably makes sense for...

Yeah, I wouldn't want to see every Premier League club have an artificial surface, but I think for

Glimpt, it makes sense.

And it meant that

the youth team game, they could play on the same pitch at 11 o'clock in the morning, which I think is quite a nice thing for travelling fans and go and watch that as well.

Journalists who don't have enough work to do can go and watch it.

Breaking news, we are in the high hundreds of Turkish listeners actually.

So yeah, get in touch, please.

Football Weekly at the Guardian.com, and that'll do for part one.

Part two will begin with Jose Mourinho returning to Stamford Bridge.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So Chelsea beat Benfica 1-0.

Jose was back.

I mean, he's been back before, but I guess it's always a thing when Jose is somewhere.

Barney writing.

Mourinho isn't really a coach these days.

He's a portable human fame event.

A real-time Jose Mourinho happening.

Asked once why he didn't seek fame on the literary circuit.

Philip Larkin replied that he didn't want to go around pretending to be myself.

Jose, well, Jose is the exact opposite of this.

And it did feel, like producer Joel said, Barry, a bit sort of like an exhibition or a testimonial, or like he was the manager in soccer raid, like it just kept cutting to Jose.

Yeah, that was very much the narrative in the build-up to the game.

Jose returns to Stamford Bridge, but it's the eighth time he's returned to Stamford Bridge with four different teams,

and he's only won once, and he lost last night.

But

I suppose it's not a particularly interesting game, and he always makes for good copy.

He was

being simultaneously a bastion of humility and bigging himself up, as he does before the game.

talking about how he's still the best manager Chelsea have ever had because he won three league titles.

So until until someone wins four he will always be number one

but he did concede that while i helped them become a bigger chelsea they also helped me to become a bigger jose it's easy to forget when he's not here all the time that you know he's done some despicable things

while here and elsewhere working as a coach.

And he hasn't always been welcomed back to Stamford Bridge.

But he was on this occasion.

To be honest, the game was pretty grim watching, so it was probably good to have him there to take some of the attention away from the terrible game.

But yeah, once again, he's returned to Stamford Bridge and his team were beaten.

I suppose it's slightly ironic.

The reason he's Benfica manager is because he was sacked.

by Fenerbace for getting knocked out of the Champions League by Benfica.

So

while Fenner Bache didn't get to compete in the competition, he does.

Yeah, it wasn't a very good game and it was settled by an own goal and Chelsea had another player sent off, which they're kind of the main talking points of the actual game.

Of those talking points, Nikki, is there anything worth discussing?

I'm sort of with Barry, I find it sort of quite hard.

And obviously, you've got so many screens happening that you're very rarely drawn to this football match.

I was just wondering if Barry's foreshadowing next move to Chelsea now.

So lose a Chelsea goes to maybe it's like an ongoing sequence.

Now, honestly,

it's the same as you.

Obviously, we're all juggling multiple screens.

And I found the already discussed Galatasari Lifel game quite compelling, so that had a lot of my attention.

And there was interesting stuff happening in other places, and this game did slightly fall by the wayside for attention.

But in the end,

it's another helpful result for Chelsea and Europe, isn't it?

I mean, it's still...

Of the games they're going to play in this group stage, it's not one of the most straightforward.

They got the three points, and by all accounts, it was fairly comfortable.

So, it's the ideal way to welcome back a manager who has still got that presence, and that even if he spins it his own ways, has still got that resonance for Chelsea fans.

The ideal way to have him back is to get to sing his songs and tell him he's great and then still beat him.

I suppose it's slightly interestingly, as you know,

as you told me, you didn't tell me off, Wilson, you slightly disagree when I said, you know, tactics are cyclical, but the sort of Jose ball is sort of almost coming into fashion again in a way that maybe he can, you know have success being Jose because other people are doing what Jose does the more direct football the greater emphasis on set plays

we now have that plus 10 15 years of exposure to to pet ball

and that means it's different it's it with it's happening with the knowledge of what has gone before and that makes actually quite a significant difference and pet ball ultimately was what Mourinho couldn't cope with.

So

it's a much more sophisticated version of Jose Ball, for want of a much better term, that we're seeing now.

And

he's the Mark I version.

So, you know, he's, I mean, as a manager, he's clearly shot and has been for 10 years.

That's good news for our Portuguese listeners, which are in the high hundreds.

Producers John noticing that Cole Palmer's just...

Every game is in progressively thicker and thicker jackets week to week.

He was engulfed by a sleeping bag.

It was 15 degrees in southwest London, but he likes a big coat.

Where do we want to go to?

That means lots of goals elsewhere, Barry.

I don't know which one of the goal fests would you like to go to?

Well, I watched the Kairat Almaty Real Madrid game in its entirety.

It was one of the early ones.

So Madrid had to travel all the way to Almaty on the back of that tonking they got from Atletico at the weekend.

Kairat Almaty almost scored from the kickoff, which would have made things very interesting indeed.

They just punted it long, like within 10 seconds.

As soon as the ball was kicked off, their players haired upfield.

It was quarterback forward.

Someone got a flick.

Someone else got a header and probably should have scored actually, but it headed the ball straight at Thibault Courtwell.

So that would have been interesting if Kaira Almaty had gone 1-0 up within 10 seconds, but they didn't.

Killed and Mbappe scored a hat-trick in this game.

Madrid were not great for the first 20-25 minutes, I would say, but once they scored, that was kind of it.

The Carot Almaty goalkeeper gave away a needless penalty, which Mbappe converted.

So,

but while it was still 2-0 to Madrid, Carotel Mati got a penalty that was overturned, probably correctly.

Mbappe got his hat-trick, Camovinga and Bram Diaz got the other two.

It wasn't quite as straightforward as the scoreline suggests, while simultaneously being quite straightforward.

You mentioned Athleti beating them 5-2.

They beat Frankfurt 5-1.

Impressive of Frankfurt to have a neutral goal difference after winning their first game 5-1, but that's what they have.

This is when I learned that Raspadori was at Atletico Madrid.

Hopefully he hasn't been there for 10 years.

I mean, that's very impressive, Nikki, for Atleti to hammer Frankfurt.

Griezmann getting his 200th for Athleti with an extraordinary mullet as well.

Just quickly on the Madrid game, because I was, I mean, I'm catching up on that.

I just, this is 18-year-old goalkeeper, of course, isn't there?

The co-write goalkeeper, Karl Merzer, who got thrust in for the first game and was their third choice keeper, wasn't he, at the start of the season?

Then, two successive keeper injuries to put him in.

He's 18, but looks a young 18 when you see him on the pitch as well.

And of course, in that first game against sporting, he saved a penalty.

And for a moment, there was this like lovely story about this 18-year-old kid.

And I was just thinking of him yesterday, thinking, God, now he's this poor 18-year-old kid who's, yes, he's played two Champions League games.

He's also got nine goals while it passed him in in those two games bit of a rough start to uh to that experience but maybe still one day will be a great story to tell about playing um against that real madrid team i don't know i'd like to go super impressive really really strong i mean eintracht are

a story all of their own eintrecht frankfurt because they are

either scoring five goals or conceding five goals every every game from the seams of it they are absolutely uh um

not a strong defensive team but clearly have some things going for them going forwards But yeah, Griersman bossing it.

Raspadori moved this summer, Max.

You don't have to worry, but he's certainly been getting lots of attention in Italy.

He's been off to a decent start, and people hoping that's going to be good news for the national team.

Four of Atlesi's goals came from crosses, and the fifth was a penalty which awarded when a cross was, was it, I think, handled

or something, but Julian Alvarez scored with a Pinenca, really good Pinenka.

So it was really fun.

It took ages to go in.

The goalkeeper went down and tried, still got a hand to it.

Like, that's how slow the ball was travelling, but wasn't able to keep it out.

Frankfurt, you know, after beating Galatasaray 5-1, they lost 4-3 to Union Berlin.

At the weekend, they beat Brussian Munchenglaback 6-4.

They were 6-0 up.

I wonder if a team has ever taken their foot off the gas more than that.

Marcebee Ayaks, 4-0.

Igor Pachow signed from Fire North in the summer for 35 million, scored his first goals for the club.

Two good finishes.

First was a beautiful flick through.

The second, the ball giveaway by David Classen, who must be 54 by now.

So, you know,

we can forgive him that.

And Marseille, Nikki Os are full deserby.

Just never stop.

I thought the goals were great.

Really, really great goals in this game.

As you say, it wasn't really like that many close games last night, but there were some really good goals.

And this one was packed with them.

I think...

This definitely felt like a little bit of a verdict, unfortunately, on where Ajax are at at the moment as well.

But yes, full deserby is the right word for it when they when they are putting those moves together going forward um really sensational i thought pagchow looked uh electric in this one buyer on five one at paphos uh harry kane scoring two wilson been hearing discussions about you know whether harry kane should stay i think his contract is up at the end of 2027 but there is a sort of clause for him to go for 65 million euros at the end of this season if he wants to but it would seem mad for him or them to say

this this is we've had a nice time, let's carry on, or unless you disagree with that.

Depends what he wants.

I mean, if he wants to get the Premier League goal scoring record, he needs to come back at some point.

It's probably going to take him

two or three years to surpass Shearer.

If that is really what motivates him, I have no idea if it is.

I guess to an extent as well, it depends how Bayern do in the Champions League and

whether it looks as if they are potential winners or whether the comparatively low level of the Bundesliga means that they're never really going to have a chance.

Because

I can see why you would think, okay,

I'm scoring 40 goals a season.

I'm winning a Bundesliga title every year, but sort of so what?

It'd be more meaningful to perhaps go back to Tottenham or go to another Premier League club, get that record, and maybe have a popper crack at the Champions League.

So, yeah, Shearer's on 260, Keynes on 213.

I think that record is just so bogus, though, because

there are so many players who have scored more goals in the top flight than Shearer,

but just because they didn't score them in the Premier League.

I mean, Shearer's records, Shearer got some before the Premier League as well, didn't he?

I think he's got

in the teens of goals that have happened before that.

So all these records are what they are, aren't they?

I know what you mean, but equally,

the Premier League does serve as a useful shorthand for modern-ish football.

And I'm not saying that Dixie Dean wouldn't have scored goals today, but for him to get 60 goals probably

was slightly conditioned by the change in the offside law in 1925 and teams not quite just

as you'd have known if you come to my lecture lecture in Malma on Monday.

Oh, how did that go?

It was, I mean, rapturous applause, standing evasions, calls of encore.

I said,

there are no more changes to the law.

Sorry, did you just, just to clarify, did you explain just then what you were doing in Malmo, why you were invited?

I was at the City Archive in Malma giving a lecture on the 100th anniversary of the change in off-side law to make it.

You only needed two defenders to play a forward on side rather than three many congratulations you do wonder as well would dixie dean get the service from james garner you know that's that's another question isn't it to uh jimmy greaves 357 dixie dean 310 steve bloomer 309 gordon hodgson 287 and alan shearer 283 so yeah he got uh 23 more uh before the premier league started but you could just see if harry kane really wants that and he goes to total and he doesn't quite get enough and then he has to go to west ham and then he has to go to you know Leicester and it just sort of just ebbing down finally gets one when he's about 55 years old.

Let's do the Italian clubs Nikki Atalanta meet club brews 2-1.

Before I go to you Barry who's the Atalanta manager?

I haven't a clue.

Oh no, it's it's our friend Ivan Urich.

Here's our friend.

You asked me last week.

I just wondered if you'd forgotten.

I'm disappointed that you just you just remembered.

What did you make of this, Nikki?

It's obviously not the I suppose the glamour tie of the round, but it was I think an important win for Atlanta especially from coming from behind obviously they did get knocked out by Brugger last season so a little bit of clearing that out the system a little bit of proving to themselves that they could win in Europe under Jurich instead of Gasparnini because it has been a bit of a it hasn't been a bad start to the season it's just been a bit of a stop start start to the season and I think especially up front it feels like they're still

still working out exactly who they are again up front and Luckman did start this game and and that's positive that he's been reintegrated but wasn't at his usual sharpness.

So yeah, I think it was from Atalanta's point of view,

probably quite a lifting result.

They definitely deserved it by the end.

I wasn't sure they did halfway through the game, but they kept plugging at it.

And the equaliser was a penalty, but the second goal was quite a nice flick on from

coming in from the left and then Paslage with the header.

And I don't know,

it felt like one of those goals that meant a lot to the team in that moment.

and hopefully for them they can carry it forward.

Yeah, as he felt for the Bruce Keeper, because when he gives away that penalty, because he does really well to get out to a striker's feet, and the ball spins away, and he thinks, oh, I've got to get to do it again.

But he didn't get it for the second time and gave away the penalty.

Into Bits Lavia Prague 3-0.

And the rest of us will continue to write them off, I presume, into despite they win games in the Champions League.

Yeah, I don't know where Inter are still under Christian Kivu again, like a team trying to work out exactly who they're trying to be after Simone and and Zaghi's gone and

there's been some positive signs and some less positive signs.

Nice to see Petar Sucic get the start in this one.

I thought he played well.

Certainly when you've got Turam and Lautaro playing well up front, that's pretty stinking good as attacking partnerships goes.

There's a lot in the team that's still to like,

but maybe again, a team that not quite sure what their identity is at the moment.

But yes, they were.

comfortably comfortably that's even comfortably undersells it they were very very much better than slavia last night uh pass the PSG bring me the game of the night.

Tonight, Newcastle go to Union Saint-Deloire, Arsenal Play Olympia, Crossman City at Monaco.

We will cover all of those and the rest of the games.

In tomorrow's part, and that'll do for part two.

Part three, we'll begin with Nuno's West Ham Adventure.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

So on Monday night, Nuno took West Ham to Everton.

They drew one all.

Producer Joel said probably a fair result.

Barry, I said, from the highlights I saw, Everton definitely deserved to win this game.

Who do you agree with and who is an idiot?

I agree with you and producer Joel is an idiot.

Yeah, I thought Everton very much left this one behind them, but they do seem a little toothless up front.

Beto blows

cold a lot more often than he blows hot.

I was going to say hot and cold that suggests you know it's about 50 50 split i would say it's more 80 cold 20 hot he hasn't been playing well this season tier no barry got 20 minutes here didn't do anything i suppose the good news for west ham is they didn't concede from a corner but they did concede from across i have to stop you here as a point of correction Apparently, it still counts as a goal from a corner because it's the same phase of play, according to our mate Seb Hutcherson on commentary because a corner came in it was punch clear I mean clearly it's not from a corner but in if we're talking phases of play and for the stats it will be their eighth conceded from a corner even though it's not conceded from a corner if you catch my drift okay I'll

I will accept that

but anyway James Garner cross from the left Mavra Panas left Michael Keane completely unmarked and he scored with a decent header.

Everton missed missed quite a lot of chances.

Their main tactic is

give the ball to Jack Grealish and to a lesser extent give the ball to Ilman and Dai and hope one of them does something.

The West Ham goal was decent.

El Haji Malik Juf, who I think West Ham fans haven't really taken to, he skinned Jacob Bryan down the left, sending across.

It was cleared by Keene and

broke to Jared Bowen, who did what Jaron Bowen does, shifted it onto his left foot and curled it in around the inside the far post so it's a good point for West Ham but I certainly agree with you that Everton were the better team yeah worth pointing out Michael Keane gets a massive header on that Bowen finish as well I mean it really should be an own goal in my view even though it's it's on target but I mean it's interesting you say Everton's plan is give it to Grealish West Ham's plan is sort of give it to Bowen

Wilson how do you think Nuno will fare at the London Stadium I mean I think it's not a very good squad so I think think whoever's in charge has got problems.

I don't know how Nuno will fit in with fans' expectations that they seem to expect or seem to want more than somebody who's going to sit deep and play on the break.

But I guess if that, it can be thrilling, I guess, if it's effective.

But I fear it's going to be a pretty attritional, difficult season for them, whoever they got in charge.

You'd have them surviving, though, Nikki, now he's there.

Holy doors.

It's quite hard to say, isn't it?

Because

the promoted sides have done well so far.

That makes the relegation hopefully more interesting.

Yeah, I think exactly as you say, when you start the season, I think all of us by default, and not without reason, because the financial golf does get bigger and bigger.

We just expect the newly promoted sides to drop straight down.

And if they're not going to roll over, then that makes everything more complicated.

But yeah,

I don't know where the line is where I feel like we can start having serious conversations about it, but I feel like it's still not yet.

It's six games in.

It's not the point to make the universal like,

yeah.

I quite like the idea of you deciding when we can have serious conversations.

I decide.

Yeah, you can decide.

I decided.

What, 20 games?

15 games?

15 feels a lot more reasonable than that.

38 in

so what we say, what we're saying, Barry, is just have stupid conversations until then, and then one very serious pop-a conversation at the end of it all.

But what I think probably is true is that we've got used to your low 30 spoints, would keep you up.

I think this season it might be 36, 37.

And so you're suddenly looking at a West Ham or Wolves thinking, you've still got to get 30 odd more points.

It's not 20 odd more points, it's 30 odd.

And yeah, okay, there's 36 games gone.

There's still 32 games left.

But you're probably talking about more than a point of game for the rest of the season.

And that's not that easy.

Nikki, that sounded like a semi-serious point to me.

Should we accept it or strike it from the podcast?

I'll allow that one.

You'll allow it.

Okay.

There was a bit of EFL last night,

of which the highlight was Chris Wilder sent off for booting a ball at a fan, which is

slightly overselling it uh he was walking off at half time and he absolutely i think it was a half volley but he caught it very well uh but he didn't ex he didn't intentionally kick a ball at a fan he went to check the fan was okay and came back and the referee sent him off which i i don't know barry maybe that's letter of the law should be a red card but seemed a bit seemed a bit like oh if you weren't watching ref you would have just let let it go yeah it does seem a bit letter of the lawish i I think

there was absolutely no malice whatsoever behind the action.

I don't think he even booted the ball in frustration.

I think he just saw a ball and went, I'm going to kick that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're all programmed.

Like when you're in a park and you're desperate for the ball to come to you, it's like, oh, wow, a round ball.

I don't get to do this much.

I mean, he probably gets quite a lot of opportunities.

You're absolutely right.

Sea ball, kick ball.

Are we absolutely certain the fan wasn't eating a sandwich?

That's a good point.

It's a very good point.

He's not a Premier League manager, is he, at this stage?

So I think sandwiches are acceptable.

Anyway, they lost 2-1 to Southampton.

Perhaps more importantly.

Sheffield Wednesday with 2-1 up against Birmingham away.

But Birmingham equalised in the 99th minute.

Agony for Wednesday.

Leicester drew with Wrexham and Ipswich Stewart Bristol City, amongst other results.

Finally, Callum says, dear Max Barry and Co., I'm an Australian Arsenal and pod fanatic.

The pod is a haven for me to unwind from the hustle and bustle of everyday life.

We should put that on a poster, shouldn't we?

This week, my sister Daisy will get married to her fiancé, Tom.

Tom is a bit of a recluse.

He has no social media, is not particularly into sports, and the only apps he has on his phone are a plane tracking one and Spotify.

I found it difficult to connect with Tom, who I'm sure is delighted that you've put all this to

favour.

But following Andrew's arrival to the Premier League with Spurs, I was able to use the Australian influence to convince him to start following the Premier League and listen to the Guardian Football Weekly.

He's now an avid listener.

And since last season, we've started a tradition where we listen to the pod together.

Two or three times a week, I'll go to my sister's place, listen to the pod with Tom while we both complete mundane tasks.

Mundane tasks you have to do or just like mundane tasks you've...

I'll just count these yogurt pots.

Anyway, we both promised that if we ever have vasectomies, we'll listen to the pod during the surgery.

And we'd both likely die of celebrity shock if we were to ever meet.

Felipe O'Claire.

The pod has been an integral in developing a lovely bond between my soon-to-be brother-in-law and me.

And listening together is often the best part of my week.

As a result, it would mean the world to both me and I'm sure Tom if Barry could extend his best wishes to Tom and Daisy ahead of their wedding this week.

Uh, keep up the great work, lots of love, Callum.

Tom and I will not rest until the Guardian Football Week.

He deservedly wins back the FSA podcast of the year from the

football ramble.

Uh, so yes, uh, Tom and Daisy, Barry, please do your business.

Well, I'm not sure.

I can wish Tom all the best ahead of his wedding Daisy, because he sounds like an awful person

with no interests beyond plane spotting.

So I'm not sure why Daisy is marrying him.

He doesn't like sport,

which I always find sinister.

Well, suspicious, if not sinister.

And he does like looking at airplanes, which is also weird.

But he must have something going for him if Daisy has decided to spend the rest of her life.

He listens to this three times a week.

So he likes this.

this, even though he doesn't like the

strong armed into listening to this by the sound of things.

Are you okay, Tom?

Would you like, like, do you need help?

Do you actually not want to?

Patsy hates it.

Patsy's like, every three times a week, my, I don't want to marry him.

I want to marry Daisy.

I've got no interest in Daisy's brother.

And he comes here and I have to listen to this bloody podcast of these idiots talking about this thing I don't like.

And then this guy sets up boring things for me to do.

I've got to count the Hoover bags underneath my sink while I have to listen to this podcast.

I'd rather do anything else in my life.

Tom, you have our apologies, but thanks for adding to our listening numbers.

Aren't Tom and Daisy the aren't they the main protagonists of the Great Gatsby?

Well, they are too, aren't they?

So, what does that mean?

This is the not so much the Great Gatsby as the very mediocre Gatsby.

Anyway,

best wishes to you,

to Tom and Daisy.

Oh, by the way,

I had to venture to North London on Saturday night for a friend's 50th birthday party.

And on my way home on the tube, I was accosted by a young man who wanted to tell me how great he thought the pod was.

And I wasn't rude to him, but I wasn't particularly friendly either because A, I'd had a few, and B, he caught me completely by surprise.

So I didn't really know what to say to him.

So I didn't say much at all.

Thanks.

Thanks for listening.

Yeah, I think I managed to get it.

That's very kind of you.

But I normally tried to make more of an effort.

I was just sitting there reading my book and he came over to talk to me.

So I would like to apologise to him for not being more effusive in my gratitude to him for listening to the pod.

We may have lost him forever.

He's probably not even listening to this now, though.

Isn't he?

You've got to work on it.

I don't know.

Every listener counts.

Anyway, that'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Nikki.

Thanks.

Thanks, Wilson.

Cheers.

Thank you.

Thank you, Barry.

Thanks.

For the weekly is produced by Delgrove.

Our executive producer is Danielle Stevens.

We'll be back tomorrow.

This is The Guardian.

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