Liverpool v Manchester United, Parker v Farke and joy for Cape Verde – Football Weekly podcast

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Hello, and welcome to Guardian Football Weekly.

The Premier League returns with Super Red, Super Sunday, or whatever we're going to call it.

Liverpool on a three-game losing run at home to who knows what you'll get, Manchester United.

Slot has some big decisions in trying to find the right balance.

While a win for United would put them within two points of the champions, Czech's league table can't be right, but is.

Elsewhere, how long left for Angus Forest against Chelsea in the early Saturday kickoff?

Clearly, a manager needs more time to implement a new style, but that's not how it.

Brackets Maranakis works.

Sean Dyce watching on eagerly.

Arsenal have a great chance to extend their lead at the top of the table as they go to Arsenal Reserves at Craven Cottage.

Bournemouth Palace is the battle of the two most sought-after managers in the division.

It's unlikely, but Spurs could end the weekend top of the league.

Wolves go to Sunderland in the search of their first win, while it's Parker versus Farker at Turf Moor.

For those of you worried, we'd lost our mind by not booking Paul Watson during an international break.

We've booked Paul Watson during an international break.

More on Cape Verde, Burkino Faso and Pakistan.

While marginally closer to home, Ben Fisher wants to talk about Stevenage.

All that, plus your questions.

And that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glenn Denning.

Hello.

Hi, Max.

Hello, Paul Watson from the Sweeper Podcast.

Hi, Max.

And hello, Ben Fisher.

Hi, Max.

Let's begin with a Premier League preview then.

It's always nice to have it back, even though this international break was quite a fun one.

Super Sunday is Liverpool, Manchester United.

It is very, I mean, it's always a big game and it always feels cliché to say, but this time it is a really big game, but it feels quite significant for both these teams.

It is obviously always a big game.

And I thought before I delved into it that Manchester United's record against Liverpool was quite good, but

it isn't.

Liverpool have only lost one of their last 14 Premier League games against Manchester United.

And United United have not won at Anfield in nine years, but they have drawn their past two games.

And the more I looked into this game, the more I think Liverpool will probably win it.

As you alluded to in the intro, you don't really know what you're going to get with Manchester United.

You do have a fair idea, and it generally isn't great.

I wouldn't read too much into United's defeat over Sunderland because they should be beating Sunderland.

I think people expected a bit too much of Sunderland at that game at Old Trafford.

They didn't play well and it was over as a contest quite early.

Liverpool obviously go into this on the back of three defeats.

They were all away from home.

There are concerns over the form of Mo Salah but I suspect he will definitely start this game because his record against Manchester United is

second to none.

I think he scored 16 goals against them since coming to England.

I would like to see Arnas Slot pick him on the right, Ekatike on the left, with Wurtz in behind Isaac.

And let's see if he can't whip this team into shape and end this unbeaten run.

As you're saying,

play all the best players.

Yeah.

The thing that always screws it up.

I mean,

call me controversial, but it might just work.

It might.

I'd be harsh on Gakpo, I think.

I mean, look, Mo Sala had a good international, international, he had a good international break, didn't he, Paul?

Yes, so he's fresh off becoming the all-time top scorer in African qualifying football history.

So like he's had a decent little break.

Yeah,

I would play him absolutely.

Yeah.

Julian Oglesman has been, was talking about Florian Verts, saying, look, he needs to get used to the league.

I saw him playing with total freedom.

He knows what he's capable of and how things work.

It's not his fault if his teammates don't convert the chances.

The statistics don't even tell the whole story.

Yeah, according to Octa, no players created more chances in the league so far this season, which is one of those stats that doesn't feel like it's accurate, but it is.

21 chances he's created.

No, and I didn't watch him, didn't watch Germany against Northern Ireland, but it didn't seem like he had a sort of, you know, unplayable game.

Sounded like he maybe struggled a little bit again.

But I don't know.

I feel like we just need to let him have some time.

There's obviously eagerness for him and ESAC to just, you know, rip it up.

We're not really seeing it yet or we're not seeing it yet i think it will it will come he's obviously clearly a great player they've done their homework liverpool's recruitment has been so impressive for quite a long time now you know they don't get too many wrong i am interested probably more so in kirkz and what they do at left back andy robertson's only started two games i think this this season for liverpool so reliable for them you know what what a career he's had had there alone play for scotland sort of this you know great reliable figure but it feels like you know kirkz was signed to compete with robertson i believe as opposed to replace him.

And at the moment, it feels like Kirkz is probably struggling even more than maybe Wirtz or even indeed Isak, who's not obviously had so much game time.

So, yeah, I think it will be interesting in the selection what Slot goes for because he has persisted with Kirkz, with Wirtz.

It's interesting, isn't it?

Because we're saying, you know, Liverpool are not on it.

They've lost three in a row, but actually...

They're second in the league in a great place, and I really fancy them to win on Sunday.

The one thing I would say about Andy Robertson is he did not play well for Scotland during this break.

And in that game against Belarus, where everyone played badly for Scotland, he was conspicuously atrocious.

And I'm a big fan of his as a player, but I think that could be a problem for Liverpool, that left-back position.

Yeah, I suppose it's interesting, isn't it, Paul, that you, I wonder how much, like the first few games,

like the impact that that has on perhaps an entire career.

And obviously, there are lots of examples.

Bird camp didn't start quickly, and he think he was...

You'd argue he did quite well for arsenal over time but actually for a player like kirkins you know if you come and you don't hit the ground running the pressure on you is enormous yeah and it and it mounts and it mounts every every game and i think there's that catch 22 where you start to play less well as especially if you're expected to score goals and you're not scoring goals you probably make poorer decisions because there is a weight on you isn't there to to to make that impact yeah i think it's amazing now how fast people get on the back of everyone in the social media age right there's so little patience i saw actually saw a hilarious tweet from a Liverpool fan, which I was not tongue-in-cheek saying, you know, we've all got behind Ana during the good times.

Let's get behind him.

Now we're in the trenches.

It's like, how deep are these trenches?

This is, I dig deeper trenches on the beach than this.

You know,

it's amazing how quickly people turn on managers and players, isn't it?

Like, there's no patience left in the game at all.

Yes, I think that message said, you know, he can get us out of this mess.

And look, we alluded to it last week, a couple of weeks ago, Barry, and I wrote a column about it, but

with always with Liverpool, just the whole Diogo Dotta factor.

And there's no way of sort of saying it quickly and without seeming sort of trite about that tragedy.

But that will just impact this team.

And it's really, really, really hard to know to what extent.

And actually, it also goes for the Portugal team and it goes for all the Portuguese players that knew him wherever they happened to be,

but especially at Liverpool, because they were all there.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think

I think we said I think or maybe Arna Sloss said and we just reported it or commented on it at the time

it doesn't really matter if Liverpool don't win anything this season because they have this tragedy to deal with and

nobody outside the club really knows how deeply it is affecting them but it must be affecting them.

It would be very strange if it wasn't.

It could conceivably affect them in a positive way, but it will have an effect on them, either detrimental or positive or a bit of both, if you know what I mean.

Absolutely, yeah.

For Manchester United, Big Sir Jim has given Ruben Amram his backing, saying he has three years to prove himself.

Trying to think like a win for him here at Anfield,

because I sort of feel sorry for him and it would just, the relief it would mean for him.

Although it is difficult to see how they do it.

Yeah, I just don't buy that Ratcliffe line at all, to be honest.

I mean, let's face it, if they'd have lost, what was it, to Sunderland going into the break, you know, I don't think we'd be talking about Ruben Amerin, his Manchester United manager.

That win was worth a three-year extension.

That's how highly he rates Sunderland.

It just feels a little bit, again, like, I mean, it's different, but it feels a little bit like Ten Haag in the FA Cup, you know, win that, okay, this guy must be great.

Yeah, it almost does feel like an overreaction to that game, right?

We've won a game, now everything's rosy, everything's great, let's back our man.

I think there's just so much wrong still there.

And if Liverpool turn up, I just think they'll, yeah, and, you know, and perform as they can.

And maybe some of these new players that we've spoken about click.

I just think Manchester United won't be able to handle it.

At the City Ground, the early kickoff on Saturday, Nottingham Forest played Chelsea.

Luke got in touch, appears to be a Nottingham Forest fan, having an existential crisis.

What happens if Forrest win in relation to Ange?

What happens if Forrest lose in relation to Ange?

What if it's a draw?

The absolute season of our lives looks like blowing up in our faces.

What should we do?

Ben, you'll be at the city ground.

Yeah, I think it's an interesting point, actually, because obviously that's a fan.

And I think the fans' reaction on Saturday will actually be quite critical in terms of what Maranakis and Forrest do with Ange Postakoglu.

He's in a lot of trouble, I think.

I basically think they probably have to win.

or certainly perform pretty well to avoid him maybe going.

I think there was probably a bit of an expectation that that may have happened again in the international break.

I think the sort of pragmatic approach that he took at Newcastle, you know, and let's face it, they still lost 2-0 and didn't really threaten,

was deemed sort of just enough to let him hang on.

But maybe it's actually a case of Forrest can't replace what, or they can't find somebody

they really want to replace him and therefore Postakoglu's still in.

Look, I sort of go along with what Paul said earlier.

It does feel crazy, whatever you think about Andrew Postakoglu and how bad the start has been, that we're already saying, what, seven games, basically a month in.

It doesn't feel like, well, it isn't that long ago as it is unveiling that we're talking about

him possibly going.

But it's a really tricky game.

I think

the fans' reaction, it was so negative against Mitchelland when, you know, it was a dreadful performance, dreadful evening, dreadful result.

And I think that has really made Maranakis think about his decision.

Because let's face it, it was his decision to go for Postacoglou.

Maranakis wants to win the Europa League.

He believes Forrest can can and maybe should be in that conversation.

I probably agree with that.

I think they've got a good enough squad.

But at the moment, they've got, what, five points from seven league games, one point in the Europa League, Porto next Thursday.

You know, time is not running out, but

it's already kind of hit that stage where they can't just keep sort of hoping it's going to happen because at the moment, everything we've seen of Forrest under Posta Koglu has been

generally quite poor.

You know, they look frail.

Yeah.

I think, I don't know, Barry, you said some of their performances, they probably merited a win somewhere within that seven, I guess.

I thought they should have beaten Sunderland.

I thought Sunderland were very lucky to beat them.

And I thought they played well in the draw against Rael Bettis.

They're the two I just I can remember off the top of my head.

I mightn't have seen all their games.

I they were terrible against Mitchell and Ben's right there.

I'd like to see Anne stay there

just out of curiosity, but I have no emotional investment in forest you can't it's hard to get away from the fact i think it's 17 or 18 he's only won one of his past 17 or 18 premier league games and that was against southampton last season that's really bad yeah it isn't great it's terrible i mean i still love the guy but that isn't great i mean he's had an international breakpool to to to get on the grass with the players not on duty but 12 were on duty so i'm not sure sort of what you can because people will say oh well now you've had some time because he hasn't had any time

to train these players because he had so many games.

And now the time he has no games, he's got no players.

Yeah, it's such a weird job in that respect, isn't it?

It's like coming into this role, he had absolutely no time to build up a little bit of kind of time with the players,

get to know them.

He was just thrown in.

He hasn't, they haven't done particularly well, but to judge him at this point is crazy.

But then he does get this little window to sort of take a breath and he's almost on the edge of being fired.

He's probably spent most of it looking around to see if he can see Sean Dyitch anywhere.

Probably opening cupboards.

So he's not in here, is he?

I feel really sorry for him.

I also think it's partly the fact he came in and replaced a manager who should never have been fired in the first place.

I think that's what makes this one particularly difficult because the fans are going to get on his back, but they're probably getting on his back because they made a completely nonsensical decision.

They want the old manager still in.

Whereas if he had come in at a time when

fans were saying, look, the manager's probably got to go, he probably would have got a lot more leeway there.

But instead, yeah, I feel sorry for him him because he doesn't really have the backing of the fans by the sound of it and that that could cost him immediately yeah no and that mitchland game was what a week or eight days after they played in bettis and as barry said they were really good in the first half could have scored sort of four or five goals but there is that vulnerability which you know they squandered leads i was at the swansea game as well and you're thinking okay it's basically cruising and then they somehow lose 3-2 and you know it's just like how has that happened how have you let this fall apart just alluding to what paul said there the thing we maybe forget is obviously Nuno was sacked, but

it wasn't a football decision.

It was a, you know, this guy is clashing basically, has a sort of personal issue with Maranakis, but more so with Edu.

So actually the decision that maybe Maranakis needs to reflect on is I've brought Edu in to be this global kind of figure across all of his clubs, obviously Olympiakos as well.

But it's that decision which has kind of set this chain of events, which maybe is getting lost in the kind of, you know, is Poster Cogli the the right guy?

What about Nuno?

We love Nuno.

It's like, well, Nuno was never going to be able to continue in that environment as it was.

It's as sad as that is because the fans obviously love him.

Amazing job.

But Maranakis' decision to push for Edu is the one that's created friction and problems.

On Chelsea, Enzo Mareska has will have to serve a one-game ban and was fined £8,000.

Somebody texted me on Talksport yesterday to say, won't someone, that presumably means that his dad will have to keep on fishing.

Won't someone think of the parents here now that he's had that fine he pleaded guilty to the charge of sort of abusive language or something i couldn't work out if it was just for the celebration uh in that winner against liverpool because if it was just for the celebration it feels mightily harsh um coal palmer still out not expected to return until uh mid-november arsenal go to fulham feels like uh paul a great chance to extend their lead at the top of the premier league yeah it does and if we know anything about arsenal uh they never blow chances like this right they're very solid whenever you think arsenal looking solid um yeah, yeah, you would think so, right?

I think Fulham have got a terrible record against Arsenal.

Fulham, I think, also probably needed that international break to get over that Bournemouth game because that was a shocker, wasn't it?

They absolutely had that.

That was three points in the bag, it looked like.

And then to come out having lost that, I think they probably wouldn't have minded having a little break just to just to get over that.

But yeah, you would think Arsenal looked pretty solid here, but that is those are always dangerous words at any time, aren't they?

The worrying thing for Fulham in this one is I think both their strikers are injured, Rodrigo Mooney

and Raul Jimenez.

So,

do they play Jonah Cousiasari, who is a 19-year-old Swede they signed from Bayern Munich on deadline day,

who I don't think has got a look in yet, or he might have made a couple of fleeting cameos,

or do they play Harry Wilson or Josh King as a false nine?

Josh King played, made his debut for England other 21s on Monday, I believe, and is supposed to have played very well.

And he's been a revelation for football, or for Fulham, even, and football this season.

Brackets, not that Josh King.

This is 18-year-old Josh King.

As Barry says, not to be confused with Joshua King of former Bournemouth in Manchester United fame.

But no,

I've been really impressed with King.

You know, as Carsley said after making his 21s debut on Monday, you know, we need to remember he's only 18.

As Barry said, Moon is in him and is out, but King, you know, Silver, Marco Silver's trusted King to basically play up there on his own, which I think is pretty remarkable for somebody who's 18.

He looks, I think the key point is he looks like capable of doing it against Bournemouth.

He was hurting them, runs him behind his speed.

He can take the ball in tight areas.

Obviously had that goal.

against Chettlese, which wasn't a goal, but still Fulham gave him the goal of the month award for, which was quite nice.

But I've been really impressed with him.

And I wouldn't be too worried about the sort of lack of forwards because I think he looks like a player that teams are worried about.

I know coaching staff, sort of opposition coaching staff, are all kind of saying they need to look out for him.

Yeah, I think he's a player who will be extremely well coveted.

Palace of Bournemouth, sixth versus fourth.

Steve Parrish has said publicly that talks have started with Oliver Glasner over a contract extension,

which is interesting, isn't it, Paul?

I mean, whether it's worth

the paper that it is written on, I was trying to avoid that phrase, but it seems impossible to avoid that phrase.

It would be amazing if they kept Glasnar for a long time.

I mean, same goes for Bournemouth Nero, but given what Glasner's actually got silverware, could well win the Conference League this year.

Like, if they managed to keep him for longer, it would be mightily impressive.

It would.

It would.

But how many times we've seen examples of managers in Glasner's position go to a club that is supposedly, you know, a bigger club, you know, are traditionally a bigger club

and struggle.

And that reputation is gone so quickly, isn't it?

As we've seen, you know, you only have to look at managers like, I don't know, Graham Potter or, you know, there's countless examples.

You jump for the big job.

The big job is actually a club that is sort of propped up on a house of cards to some extent.

It's going to take a really big job to get that team back functioning again.

And very quickly, the patience runs out.

And you are generally, you know,

however good you are, your last job does taint you.

And so, yeah, it's all about when you jump, if you're Glasner, isn't it?

Like at what point actually do you want to leave Crystal Palace?

Because he is a hero and he's doing an amazing job.

But do you want to take that step?

There's a Morgan Gibbs White situation developing with Antoine Semenyo at the moment, Barry.

He has a release clause, but Bournemouth are keeping it to themselves.

Okay.

Surely you would just keep offering another pound until, you know, I don't, I can't, I just can't work out.

Like eBay.

Yeah, I mean, I guess so.

I mean, I suppose other people are bidding, but if you say 100, you know, 10 million and they say no, you just keep going up.

Anyway, he played brilliantly in that Fulham game later on, didn't he?

I was reading about him after the Fulham game, in which he was outstanding, and he's having a brilliant season.

I hope he stays at Bournemouth for the entirety of the season.

But he was rejected by pretty much every single club in London as a kid,

so much so that he just gave up football.

He sacked it off for a year or two until he was persuaded to to start playing again but

you just wonder like how how could that happen because he's so good now or actually how many players that does happen to you know that who are who pack it in and and don't take it up again yeah he he he decided to give it another go and it's worked out for him but yeah it probably happens loads of kids who who pack it in and maybe even go down the wrong path and who knows where they end up i think the the thing with Semenyo as well, it may seem a quite simple kind of point, but it's almost this is the power of coaching.

There's somebody I saw quite a lot of when he was at Bristol City, this raw kind of explosive, you know, all the kind of traits we see now, strong tear against, you know, tear that sort of fall back apart, but all of that stuff.

But he was very raw and kind of, you didn't really think he had maybe the end product, the way he took that final goal against Fulham.

And yet actually Iriola and Bournemouth have kind of polished this rough diamond and made him better to to the point where now when he's going through one-on-one or maybe putting that final ball in, you're expecting him to deliver.

Whereas I don't think that was maybe, and I think he would probably say that as well.

I remember talking to him years ago, and he said, you know, I've had to work a lot on just getting to the back post because so many times, you know, the ball would come in and I'd be nowhere to be seen.

And that was something I think he sort of developed while out on loan at Newport.

He was at Bath City.

As Barry says, he's done the hard yards, sort of restarted again.

I think he went to Bishop Abbey on some sort of trials day, and Dave Hockerday brought him to SGS a college on the outskirts of Bristol, Gloucestershire.

Yeah, from there he kind of hasn't looked back, but he's not had it easy because, you know, goes to Bournemouth and his kind of development has been so impressive.

I must admit, I said to somebody at the end of last season, I thought he kind of peaked.

And yet, he's just started this season like a train and, you know, probably been one of the players of the season.

As a Bristol City fan, people ask me sometimes, did he look like he could go on to be this good?

And I always say, I thought he looked like a Premier League player in the making, but not at the best Premier League player.

Potentially, You know, he didn't look like he was going to be, ever be this good.

I think the big thing, of course, is the sell-on clause.

Do you know this, Ben?

Like, what is the sell-on clause for Bristol City?

Because I think I speak for everyone when I say I want to see him transfer for about 600 million.

I think they were hoping for that in the summer.

It's fair to say.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're definitely owed.

I think it's either 10 or 15%.

Yeah.

Oh, that's exciting, isn't it?

Elsewhere then, Spurs, Villa, Man City, Everton, Sunderland, Wolves, Brighton, Newcastle, Burnley, Leeds.

Any strong thoughts on any of those games, Barry?

I'm getting slightly concerned by Sunderland's growing injury crisis.

Omar Al Dorete

was injured playing for Paraguay during the break.

Noah Siddiqui, who has been incredible for Sunderland since signing from Union Saint-Gilois during the summer, he twisted his ankle playing for Dior Congo or sprained it quite badly by the sound of things.

We'll find out this afternoon how bad that is.

So he might be out.

He's Sunderland's little midfield dynamo and he's been playing to devastating effect this season.

Habib Diara is out.

Dennis Serkin is out, various others.

Yeah, I'm slightly concerned about that.

And

while the Stadium of Light is a difficult place for a team who are at the bottom of the Premier League to go,

I think Wolves might get their first win of the season this weekend.

Maybe.

That might just be the pessimist in me, but that growing injury list is a worry.

So Matt says Parker versus Farker at the weekend.

The first instance of rhyming managers.

I don't know if anyone got anything.

No.

Spent a lot of time thinking about this.

I did wonder if Arsene Benger and Walter Zenger came up against each other, but Wolves weren't in the Premier League in 2016.

Producer Joel says has offered Eddie Howe versus Chris Powell, which is

not having it?

Okay.

Producer Joel is fired.

I agreed.

I said it didn't scan.

The 30th of August 2009.

Swindon maintained their promising league form with a narrow win against 10-man South End at the county ground.

Scott Cuthbert neatly converted a John Paul McGovern cross to put the hosts ahead midway through the first half, etc., etc., etc.

Swindon manager Danny Wilson.

told BBC Wiltshire, we were scrappy in the second half.

The tempo wasn't there.

We're just delighted to come away with the three points in the end.

South End manager Steve Tilson says, I don't know how we've come away without a point, to be honest.

We've got very excited googling Danny Wilson, Steve Tilson.

Was that AI?

Did you actually type this question into AI?

It will not surprise you to know I don't know how to use AI yet.

I know I need to take it seriously.

I recently had to do a course.

Oh, really?

How is it?

It's kind of helpful.

Yeah, I suppose.

I'm slightly wary of it.

It's coming for me, Max.

It's coming for us.

I was going to say, is this AI Baz or is this real Baz that we're getting?

Oh, no, this is real Baz.

This is real Baz.

Okay.

All right.

Well, that'll do for part one.

But that's exactly what I would expect AI Baz to say in response to that question.

We'll be back in a second.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Let's do some international stuff.

Paul, he wanted to talk about Kosovo, second in Group B.

Yeah.

Benefiting hugely from Sweden being absolutely hopeless.

And they've beaten them twice this campaign.

That's their two wins.

But a great chance of getting in the playoffs.

A great chance, which has sort of come somewhat out of nowhere.

They're also the unofficial world champions, Kosovo.

I don't know if you knew that.

I didn't know that.

How does that work?

So it's like someone sat down at some point and went back to the first ever international.

and treated it from there on like a boxing belt.

So, you know, England, Scotland, won't even get the belt until they lose a match and then it transfers to the next team so they've someone's done this for like decades and decades and once they had a winner they then just have kept it going and kosovo took that that title and are have actually successfully defended being the unofficial world champions uh they took it from sweden uh and then beat them again but but yeah on a on a sort of the more interesting note i don't i don't think it's going to be more interesting that was interesting well it is it's kind of a little quirk but yeah kosovo's kosovo's kind of um campaign has been pretty ridiculous that they've come from nowhere really with these these wins as you say take advantage of the fact that Sweden is so bad but they are now in a situation where they only really need to take a point from Slovenia and they would be in the playoffs uh which isn't a huge achievement for Kosovo but an added little um quirk is that they play Switzerland in their last game and Switzerland and Kosovo obviously have this incredibly close relationship uh in the Swiss team at any given point there'll be a number of players with Kosovar ancestry you know famously Granite Zhaka born in Basel to Kosovan Albanian parents and has spoken very movingly about what Kosovo means to him so there's an enormous amount of goodwill and fellowship between Switzerland and Kosovo they could meet on the last day and it could be a battle for automatic qualification or more likely Kosovo will need a result and Switzerland won't and you do wonder a little bit what happens then is switzerland actually win yeah our good friend and neighbours Cyprus, Duzbois.

I wouldn't suggest anything like that.

Interestingly, Switzerland actually were the ones who helped get Kosovo into UEFA.

They weren't in.

Switzerland were the ones who really moved that and put that onto the table at UEFA and drove it forward.

So, yeah, it's an incredible story.

And the fact that in 2014, they played their first ever FIFA sanctioned game and to already be at this point where they are, you know, because of the extended format of the World Cup, they are on the brink of a playoff is really exciting, I think.

San Marino are still still in the running.

How is this?

I mean, they are bottom of Group H, seven games, no points, 4-1 against 32.

And I love San Marino.

You know, I love San Marino.

Of course you do, yeah.

I love Minos, but I have to say, this new qualification format, it has exposed a crazy element in it, right?

That because of their Nations League, they won the Group D.

They therefore are one of the teams that could get into playoffs via the Nations League, as long as enough of the other teams come first or second in their groups and already take those places so what it's come down to is this ridiculous situation that could arise where they actually need romania to take one of those places so that they can so they can access that nations league qualification place right so they might come up against romania basically needing to lose by as many goals as possible so that romania's gold which they could do without anyone anyone smelling a race that's the only game in football they could yeah where you could lose 10 0 and people would go i i think they were trying

that's so interesting isn't it and now i saw you tweeting about the pharaohs that they've gone a bit mainstream for you now they've won a three in a row.

Yeah, sadly, they are absolutely not going to make the playoffs unless they still require two results that would be some of the biggest shocks in the history of international football.

So they would need to beat Croatia in Croatia, and they would need the Czech Republic not to beat Gibraltar.

So they need a pretty huge swing of results.

But it's been, yeah, a remarkable.

uh achievement from the faroe islands and i think it just kind of goes show what you can do if you just sensibly put down the markers for youth development and create an environment where people play the sport regularly.

And that's not that easy in the Fair Islands, but they've done an amazing job.

They've just made it really easy for people to play football.

And it's got one of these crazy stats where it's like the most percentage of the population play football weekly of anywhere in the world, something like that.

It's because everybody just loves it, and there are just really good pitches around, and people play.

I was just going to say, Max, sorry, I went on AI to ask if it could could provide examples of premier league matches through history in which

the opposing managers names rhymed with each other

and i think we're safe it's come up with martin o'neal and david moise

sam allardyce and steve bruce Paul Jewell and Mick McCarthy.

And it hasn't come up with Danny Wilson and Steve Tilson.

Which isn't a Premier League game, to be fair to your AI.

Anyway, I've gone off piece, so I apologise.

I was just saying.

No, that's okay.

No, don't apologise.

It was very important stuff.

I'm glad you were concentrating on what Paul was telling me.

I wrapped my brains for this, this Rhyming Managers.

I think the problem is the lack of Italian managers.

Because that must happen.

It's not a big deal in Italy to a rhyming manager, right?

But we don't ever have two.

Yeah, of course.

I mean, I thought of Pellegrini and...

another one, but you know, the Eenis.

If you have two E's, it doesn't work.

That's what I was...

Gasperini.

I was like, that's not really a rhyme because it's basically the same

i suppose ilson wilson and tilson is the same by my own logic i've i've messed up anyway

let's go to cape verde paul we did a bit on them yesterday uh specifically roberto lopez but it's an astonishing story of qualification isn't it yeah it's absolutely incredible really is second i'd say second smallest by population uh nation to ever qualify and in fact what was really amazing was uh this moment being described by people there as not just the biggest moment in their football history, but the biggest moment in their national history.

And I think that kind of says something about the scale of this achievement and what it meant to people there.

What also is amazing, and I was hearing this from people on the ground, is how laid back everyone was.

You think the size of that, you know, the pressure on the players, apparently the players were just sort of hanging out with people in the streets, just walking around the market and no one was mobbing them, but they were just sort of standing around having a chat with people the day before the game.

Apparently, when journalists went to go and try and get into the stadium, like, you know, suitable number of hours before kickoff, stadium wasn't even open.

They had there to sort of find a ground line effectively to open it up.

And this is like the biggest day in their history.

So yeah, it was impossibly tense, especially because they basically had all but qualified against Libya, which looked like a harder tie away to Libya.

It was a ridiculous game where they they scored one of the weirdest goals in in international football history where the goalkeeper, the Libya goalkeeper sort of just let the ball through him.

But then they went 3-1 down, battled back to 3-all and had a goal in the last minute disallowed for a completely nonsense off side.

So they sort of thought they'd already done the job, then had to take on Eswatini, who looked on paper very weak, but actually were just trying to kill the game, basically.

The goalkeeper was time wasting from like minute four.

And the only real reason that Eswatini had to win was just to simply sort of annoy Cape Verde.

They had nothing to play for.

So the fans didn't love that.

Also, one thing people don't necessarily know about Cape Verde is it's insanely windy on that pitch.

So it's really hard for anyone to play decent football.

And because all the Cape Verde players play away from there,

the whole team were playing in Europe somewhere, they were actually sort of having to struggle with the conditions themselves a little bit because they only play those home games in Cape Verde.

Even assembling the team to get them all there in time is like an insane battle.

So yeah, it's a remarkable achievement.

And I think one of the biggest sort of fairy tales.

And however much we will bemoan the extended format at certain points, what it means to a nation like that to be part of a World Cup, it just, it can't even really be defined.

Sure.

So does that mean you are, because they, FIFA have suggested a 64 team World Cup.

Are you like, yeah, I'm in for this?

No,

that's where even I hit a bit of a wall because

I just don't think that is good for the actual competition.

I think there has to be a there has to be a line drawn and I think it's it's healthy where it is.

but yeah I even I struggle to defend that I did see someone and I felt a bit of sympathy someone tweeted something like who wants to watch Cape Verde versus Azerbaijan at World Cup and there was just luckily enough people like me who were like well if you're not watching that what are you even doing that's that's absolutely World Cup yeah that's the prime world cup match

Nigeria qualified they beat Benin 4-0 you want to talk about Burkina Faso yeah I felt incredibly sorry for Burkina Faso so Nigeria this was in amazing late drama they beat Benan, who were also in the running for a place.

They beat them 4-0, but they were not actually going to even make the playoffs until the last minute when Onyeka scored, which was to make it 4-0, because then they overtook Burkina Faso by a single goal in

the playoff qualification.

So Burkina Faso were celebrating making the playoffs in their dressing room, which you probably shouldn't do until you know it's full time, but they thought it was in the back.

And there are videos of them sort of dancing in the dressing room.

they're then told no no you you've dropped out but it's even worse because in africa it was all really complicated because eritrea withdrew when they were sort of had started their qualification or the qualification campaign had been drawn up eritrea withdrew um you also had this mess where congo not dr congo but the other one were suspended during it so they had this this situation where they decided the only thing to do was to get rid of points against some of the teams.

So basically results against sixth place teams were not counted towards the runners-up, you know, best runners-up.

That was the only fair way of doing it.

But that actually ended up being really unfair on Burkina Faso because Nigeria had dropped four points against Zimbabwe.

So actually Burkina Faso felt really cheated by that because basically this somewhat arbitrary cut-off was put in that knocked them out of the places and Nigeria have got into them.

Question for you, Barry.

Who's the Pakistan manager?

I do not have a clue

is the answer to that question.

My answer to that question.

Well, lovely Orient says, thoughts on Nobby Ball that Norberto Solano is adopting for the Pakistan football side?

I assume this will be for Mr.

Watson only.

I did read a really good interview, Paul, with Tusak Din in The Guardian about Nobby Solano out in Pakistan.

Yeah, I mean,

this has been quite ridiculous.

What's happened in a way?

So Nobby Solano has taken over as Pakistan manager, but there was a huge kind of explosion of bafflement and rage

amongst Pakistani football fans ahead of this game.

So they're playing Afghanistan in a double header for the AFC Cup qualifiers.

Pakistan announced their squad and they'd dropped their best goalkeeper who's been in for a decade.

But more than that, they'd picked a player who didn't even have a club.

He hasn't played club football for four years and this guy's been put back in.

And basically it kind of ties into this whole problem in Pakistani football that it seems like

squad selections are being dictated by people on the board.

So like there are favoured players and not liked players.

And that the manager is somewhat being made to be a puppet and to pick exactly who he's told.

The old manager, Stephen Constantine, English Cypriot manager, would not take that.

And just basically that was the end.

He was like, no, I'm not going to be dictated to.

He did a great job there.

But there was a sense coming in that people were already rolling their eyes and saying, well, look, Solano's got this dreadful squad.

It includes a guy who's basically playing Sunday League at the moment.

How has this happened?

There are much better players out there.

So coming into the Afghanistan game, there was that drama on one side.

There was the other drama that Afghanistan didn't apply for their visas in time.

So it looked like the game was going to be cancelled and both sides were accusing the other of being at fault.

In the end, what happened is Pakistan managed to get two draws with Afghanistan and actually played pretty well.

So that's a long-winded way of saying Nobby Ball looked decent considering the absolute mayhem that he's walked into there.

But it's Nobby a puppet.

Is that what you're saying?

I'm not saying Nobby's a puppet, but what I will say is there were some odd squad selections made.

And either it's that he hasn't got to know yet exactly, you know the talent that is out there in Pakistan or someone is dictating those selections that it's not Solano.

Ted says how do we feel about the FIFA calendar next year combining the September on October windows into one three-week long window Ben?

Will that be too much for us or is it a good idea?

I think it's probably a good thing though.

It kind of because at the moment this kind of staggered September, October, November, just like certainly for the Premier League clubs, I think it's frustrating or championship clubs as well in terms of sort of building momentum, rhythm.

I'm not even sure the, I think Craig Bellamy was saying about it last week with Wales, you know, alluding to how it's going to be different next year and what it may look like, and maybe the challenges or fewer challenges it may present.

So I think it's probably a good thing because maybe certainly fans, I imagine, probably don't like the September, October, November breakup.

I know certainly some of my friends are pretty downbeat on the international windows.

They're missing out on Paul's stories, though.

That's the thing.

You know, all these great tales, yeah.

I'll be knackered.

Is anyone thinking about me in this?

I'm going to be anyway.

That'll do for part two.

Part three.

We'll do any other business.

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welcome to part three of the guardian football weekly and uh with apologies as producer joel says to marcus traskothic and the wurzels we have two of the most prominent Bristol City fans on the pod.

It's a very West Country pod, isn't it?

So it'll be rude not to give you a Bristol City minute.

You can start, Ben.

Paul, you chime in.

Well, I did.

No, I went I went to the,

I don't know if I can say this.

Can we advertise?

I went to the Thatcher's Tour yesterday as well.

The cider makers.

So it's very, very West Country.

48 hours.

Probably, probably a better...

I wondered what the Thatcher's Tour was until you said it was a cider tour.

Yes.

No, very good.

Have you been, Paul?

It's a great...

I've not been, but The Thatcher's Tour sounds like a great thing that I'd love to attend.

Oh, it's brilliant.

You get to explore the site, have a few tastings.

I mean, what more could you want?

It's golden.

I I like the fact you went straight to cider.

I was asking you how you think Bristol City are doing.

Sorry, no, that was

a

side sideshow.

Um, no, Bristol City, yeah, uh,

it's well, it's kind of been as expected, really.

Kind of quite the makings of a decent championship team, probably a couple of players short of a serious promotion push.

I think the big question is probably uh off the field in terms of ownership.

Steve Lansdowne, uh, the owner

for what, best part of 25 years now or so,

maybe even a little bit longer.

What's his kind of future?

They've sort of broken up the Bristol sport umbrella, which is the women's side of things.

Basketball, Bristol Bears, the rugby.

So that's the umbrella.

And it's kind of like, what's the future, I suppose, in terms of what does that look like?

Yeah, what about these Saudi rumours, Ben?

Because I feel like you're someone who actually might know something.

I hear from a lot of Bristol City fans saying there's a Saudi takeover.

It's

it's um

yeah, is it's the guy who owns another series of clubs, isn't it?

A guy who owns a Spanish club or something.

Yeah, well, Turkey Al-Al-Sheikh was the guy linked, and then he ruled himself out publicly saying, I'm not buying Bristol City.

But

there was definitely people

interested who were sort of being shown around in

discussions, whether it was him or somebody else.

I think there's definitely conversations going on, as ever, with all these things.

If a takeover is being done properly, then nobody really actually knows who those parties are.

But as I said, I think it will be interesting what the sort of long-term because at the moment,

certainly talking for myself, I've not known sort of a Bristol city without Steve Lansdowne at the helm.

So it'd be quite quite interesting if indeed that scenario unravels.

I love how I was told about the Saudi takeover.

It's the most Bristol thing.

A mate of mine just who lives quite near Ashton Gate was like, they've had the Saudis round.

So from that point on, I was like, I think I've got an inside source.

It's like, I saw them all walking around the Saudis.

I was like, oh, God.

And actually, it does make you feel very conflicted as a fan because for all that lands down, there's a huge frustration that it's like, well, there isn't the investment necessary to get us to that next stage.

We keep kind of hitting the ceiling.

But on the other hand, do you really want your club bought out by the Saudi regime?

And I think it's a really weird situation you're in right now to have to make that decision.

Well, we don't make a decision.

No, of course.

We'll do more Bristol City in about two years' time.

Ben, you've written a piece about Stevenage.

I thought it was interesting.

I mean, they're top of League One, which with a game in hand, or at least a game in hand, on most teams in that league, or I think all but one, Barnsley.

They've got the most points per game across the top four divisions, you know, above Arsenal, who are second in that list or that ranking.

No, amazing start to the season for Stevenage, you know, a team that, frankly, nobody would have.

expected to be top of what the third tier.

They've never made it to the championship.

Obviously, early days, they may well not do it, but their strong strong sort of start under Alex Revelle has given them a chance.

Yeah, I mean, last season, or going into this season, their chairman Phil Wallace, who's one of the few owners who has been around an awful long time.

I think he acquired the club in 1999, saved the club from liquidation.

It's been brilliant for that club in terms of investment, obviously, rise out of non-league.

He said last season, they had the best or one of the best points per pound.

um kind of seasons and they finished 14th and now they're top of league one it feels like you know they're definitely definitely kind of outperforming punching above their weight they've signed pretty well there's some good players they've got john halton who rejected new deal at plymouth to go in there ex-chelsey uh harvey white ex-spurs midfield dan kemp from west ham so they've got some good pedigree but by the same token you know nobody was expecting stevenage to be in the conversation at this stage so i went to see alex revell uh for a piece which will be on the guardian today thursday i believe and uh yeah interesting story because it's like how how on earth did this happen uh thank you ben and well done, Stevenage.

Get Ben's piece to the most read across the Guardian, please.

It feels like the most important bit of news that is happening in the world.

Correction corner, Matt says it'd be wrong of me not to point out that John Hawkes never played for Coventry.

I feel terrible.

I apologise.

It was the first American to score at Wembley for Sheffield Wednesday in the 93 League Cup final.

Simon says, I hope Leah Williamson wasn't listening to yesterday's pod.

It seems there's been a Trump-style revisionist plot led by Football Weekly regarding the captaincy of the 2022 Women's Euros winners.

Our apologies to Leah Williamson and to Millie Bright for promoting her when we didn't mean to.

On the subject of international retirements, Jess Fishlock has announced her intention to retire from international football.

Wales' record goalscorer with 48.

She'll play 166th and final game in the friendly against Australia in Cardiff on the 25th of October.

She was key in getting Wales their first ever major tournament in the summer, became the oldest scorer in the Women's Euros final history, aged 38 years and 176 days.

We've got a lovely email from Dan who says, hi, Max and the Football Weekly team.

I've been a listener since the original Euro 2008 shows.

I've never felt compelled to contribute until now.

The event that finally prompted this is Jess Fishlock's retirement.

It's hard to put into words just how much Jess has done for the Welsh game and wider women's football.

She's been at the top for so long, setting standards wherever she's played.

For Wales, she's been the heartbeat of the team.

More caps than any other player, man or woman, 48 goals, and that fierce determination that has inspired a whole generation.

An incredible stat.

She's played 67% of the 245 international matches ever played by the Welsh women's side.

Off the field, she used her voice to stand up for equality and inclusion.

She's shown what it means to be yourself no matter what, being a huge ambassador for the LGBTQ plus rights and speaking out before traveling to Qatar for the Men's World Cup.

But my abiding memory and story is much more personal and shows what a great person she is.

I tried to order a top with a name and number from Insert Sports Retailer here, ready for my daughter Lyra, to wear to her first Wales match.

I then posted on Twitter tagging Jess and the FAW accounts to say she was excited to go, etc.

Insert sports reteller here ended up cancelling the order and had issues with refunds, etc.

Jess DM'd me a couple of days later asking for my address and then said she'd send one of her match worn shirts and would sign it instead so Lara wasn't disappointed.

I then didn't hear for a while so I assumed she'd maybe forgotten or busy or whatever, which would be completely understandable being the top-level athlete she is.

However, to my surprise, she messaged me a few days before Christmas, a few months later, to say she was back in Wales from Seattle on Christmas Eve and could meet her to collect a signed match shirt so she'd have it for Christmas.

Here is a photo from that David Lara with the shirt.

Keep up the great work, all the best, Daniel Brown.

Thank you, Daniel.

That is a beautiful email.

On to Barry's marathon.

Half, half marathon.

Baby lemonade said, Max should treat it like he's trying to buy Luis Suarez.

Donate £501.

Lots of people are saying they're the real me in your just giving, giving two pounds and one pence.

Ethan Pinnock gave a fiver.

Someone gave you a grand, Barry.

I know.

It's uh,

I actually

got a big knot in my stomach when I saw that.

A, at the astonishing generosity, and B,

the fact that it piles more pressure on me.

So thank you.

And me.

But I am equally grateful for every donation because, you know, what a thousand pounds to one person might not be as

valuable as a fiver to someone else.

Depends.

So I'm just incredibly overwhelmed by people's generosity.

And as soon as we wrap up here, I'll be going out pounding the pavement again.

Ah, good stuff.

Good luck, Barry.

And that'll do for today.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you, Ben.

Cheers, Max.

Thank you, Paul.

Thanks, Max.

Cheers, Barry.

Thank you.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Bill Maynard.

This is The Guardian.