Scotland stumble towards World Cup as England aim to book place – Football Weekly

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This is The Guardian.

Hello, and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly.

You and Murray's confidence was capital letters just about justified as Scotland limped to their second win in this international break.

2-1 over Belarus is enough to keep them on track for a playoff spot at the very least.

Northern Ireland, a level on points with Germany.

If they beat them tonight, that is a big if.

Almost as big an if.

If Wales can beat Belgium, they're basically there.

The Republic.

I'm sorry, Barry.

Also, all hail the Faroe Islands.

Three wins in a row after stunning the Czechs.

How good.

Closer to home are Nottingham Forest lining up Sean Dice.

If you're going to deny us Ange in the Premier League, at least getting Deish back would ease the blow.

Stevie G says no to Rangers.

Well, Jack Wilson might be going to Luton.

And then we'll be joined by the founder of Grenfell Athletic, a football club set up in the wake of the tragedy that killed 72 people.

There's a new documentary out called Beacon of Hope, the Grenfell Athletic Story, and it's a beautiful film.

As always, we'll answer your questions.

and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glendenning, welcome.

Hi, Max.

Hello, Jordan, Jarrett Bryan.

Morning, mate.

And from Not the Top 20, George Ellick, welcome.

Thank you, Max.

That's all right.

Let's start with Scotland beating Belarus.

Barcelona says, I, for one, welcome our play out of shite, but get three points overlords.

Barry, I bet Ewan was sweating after his confidence on Thursday.

I mean, as soon as he said that Ewan,

with the possible exception of his predecessor as Guardian golf correspondent Lawrence Dunnegan, is the most pessimistic man I have ever met.

So when he voiced his utter confidence that Scotland would swap Belarus aside, the alarm bells started jangling in my head immediately.

And I think it would be fair to say that in this international window, Scotland have absolutely robbed six points from the two games like robbery

they they should have lost against greece they beat them and they were very lucky to beat Belarus

they won that's the important thing

I think Ewan said in his match report just we will never speak of this game again and that's probably a very wise policy I mean, considering they won, Steve Clark afterwards said, I was really, really disappointed with my team.

And they were, it is fair to say, abysmal.

And they were just lucky that Belarus aren't very good.

There was some shocking defending, some real midfield lethargy.

Belarus had, I think, 22 shots.

They had a goal disallowed.

They scored one.

But Scotland got over the line, and that's the important thing.

They're guaranteed a play-off place at worst.

but I did notice in the comments section under Ewan's report a lot of Scotland fans even though they may qualify for the World Cup are not happy with the manner in which Clark sets the team up there he's too defensive they say there's too much lethargy there isn't enough imagination attacking verve But I just don't know which is more important, just qualify no matter how you do it, it, or qualify and then go to the World Cup and get knocked out in the group stage again, which is probably what will happen because Clark is unlikely to change his ways at this stage.

And I think, Jordan, if you haven't qualified since 1998, surely it's just get there any which way, right?

You take what you can get, yeah.

Although, to Barry's point, um, a lot of Scottish fans that I know, after the last, what was it, Euros, the way they went out, it was um,

it wasn't good it wasn't pretty and they they were a bit annoyed they were kind of being patronized about just getting there and being at the party but not but not really contributing and um and and you know showing their nation in the best possible light has there been a bigger two fingers to premier league football than scott mttominy because his resurgent the last two and a half years i just think has been phenomenal our hands up i wasn't a particular big fan of his i thought he was a fairly average Premier League midfielder, but he's just gone on to be this like absolute beast, like MVP in Italy.

You know, he's can't stop scoring for Scotland.

I just, I just want to give him his flowers because he's a player that I was very down on, but since then, he seems to have just gone on to incredible heights.

Is that two fingers to the Premier League or just to Manchester United, I suppose?

That's the Premier League, Man United,

everybody.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, look, a couple of things, George.

One, of all the VAR bits in this game, were Belarus a little unlucky?

Is that, I mean, it is sort of a foul on McTominay, but it's not clear and obvious, is it?

No, but that's, I mean, the clear and obvious thing is something we hold VAR to, and it's the threshold that should be met, but we know very well that isn't always the case, and they like to meddle in far too many.

And I agree, like, if it's down to the letter of the law, the way that VAR should be implemented, then I think they were unlucky.

But it's funny this with Scotland, how, like, as Barry says, six points over the international break, two poor performances,

certainly in Sunday night's game or Sunday afternoon's game, luck on their side in terms of officiating too.

But, you know, they're on the brink of qualifying for the World Cup next summer.

And you've got Steve Clark, who became their longest-serving ever manager yesterday, you know, in circumstances where it wasn't much for celebration because there's concern about the performance level.

McTominay is clearly the poster boy, but you look through their whole team and it should be a much better,

certainly attacking force than they currently are.

And the crucial thing is, yes, they are, you know, they've secured at least a playoff spot in terms of qualification, but they're level on points with Denmark.

And if they don't get past Denmark in their last two games, then they're going to end up in a two-legged play-off in order to get to the World Cup.

And I think Scotland fans probably feel like the way that they're playing, the chances are in that two-legged playoff, they're going to play a team who are probably better than Greece or possibly Belarus.

I mean, certainly Belarus, possibly Greece, and they're unlikely to get through that.

So it might look good now in terms of finishing the top two, but there's still a long way to go to get there.

And they're going to have to improve certainly in the November break and then onwards to the playoffs, unless they can get past Denmark and fire their way straight to the top of the group.

On that, so in the next round, Scotland go to Greece, Denmark played Belarus.

And actually, so Denmark, their level on points, Denmark's goal difference is way superior.

So the thing is, Barry, as long as they avoid defeat against Greece, whether they win or draw, it will come down to having to win against Denmark.

And like, it's not inconceivable, right?

If memory serves me correctly, they played pretty well against Denmark and Copenhagen.

Drew could have won.

I mean,

bad performances are not the norm for the Scottish side.

They've had two bad performances in this window that got away with them.

And

Denmark aren't

all that.

You know, I would give Scotland every chance of beating them at home.

I thought Ben Gannock Doak, at least, is a bright spark, isn't he?

In there?

I didn't think he played well last night, actually.

Okay.

I mean, no one did, but like, he did one nice turn, didn't he?

He did a nice turn, right?

I'm clutching.

I'm clutching.

Look, Northern Ireland, Barry, are level on points with germany and slovakia right they beat slovakia 2-0

um a lovely goal from tray hume uh sort of lobbing it over debravka who'd just gone for a bit of a wander they played germany tonight at home i mean it is a stretch but but imagine if they win it them playing germany and wells playing belgium these are two very difficult games but just imagine winds a park getting up for it scoring and then just parking the bus.

Northern Ireland have got themselves a good team there.

Some lovely young players come through.

Shea Charles, great.

The massive ball egg for Northern Ireland tonight is that Connor Bradley's got himself suspended for this game.

He picked up a cheap booking.

I don't know if it even was worthy of a yellow card, but it was needless booking.

He got against Slovakia.

So he misses out, and he was the standout player against Slovakia.

But,

look, they've no business beating Germany, but stranger things have happened.

And there's stranger things have happened to Northern Ireland, so I wouldn't completely rule it out.

Just to follow up on what Barry was saying, I think this Northern Ireland team, you know, if you're not focused on them and why we'd do being S in Northern Irish, but it's a really, really exciting generation of talent coming through for Northern Ireland, many of whom are currently playing in the EFL, mainly in the championship.

But in Tri Hume, who's 23, he's played a lot of football for Sunderland and is now a Premier League player.

In Shay Charles, as Barry mentioned, there, who's one of the standout players in in the championship.

Ethan Galbraith, who's gone to Swansea and has been the signing of the season so far in the EFL at 24, a brilliant ball player.

Isaac Price, who is a goal-scoring attacker midfielder playing for West Brom and has been their best player so far this season.

Deveni, who we all know from his penalty exploits for Crystal Palace, who's an exciting young player.

Conor Bradley is, as Barry mentioned, even Brodie Spencer, who's a young right back at Oxford, who I'm pretty sure will play in the Premier League at some point.

These are all the nucleus of a squad who are all in their early early 20s, who are all playing regular minutes, and I'm pretty sure all certainly have the talent to play top-flight football.

And even if it doesn't come off for Northern Ireland this time around, this promise, I think, is the beginning of something really special.

And it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is a, you know, I don't.

Golden Generation might be cursing it, but

certainly an exciting team to follow in the next few years.

You can't say the same for the Republic of Ireland, Barry.

No.

Oh, I don't even want to talk about this.

Oh, it was sad because you've done so well and Kelleher saves that Ronaldo penalty brilliantly and you think at least you'll get a point here in Portugal.

Yeah,

a point might even not have been much use, but

it was heartbreaking.

They played well.

I'll give him that.

They went to Lisbon.

They set out to not lose.

They lost.

to an injury time

winner from Ruben Neves.

Remarkably, this was his first goal for Portugal, which surprised me.

And he scored it wearing the number twenty one shirt, which he uh inherited from his his pal, his best mate, Diogo Jotta.

That was Portugal's twenty eighth attempt on goal.

I think Ireland had won.

Portugal were awarded a penalty, which I thought was harsh.

It it was one of those handballs you hate.

Ridiculous.

Delighted to see Cristiano Ronaldo miss from the spot.

That was the only bright spot of the game, really, for Ireland.

But I have to take my hat off.

They're a very, very limited team.

They played as well as they probably could have against this team of superstars away from home.

And,

yeah, got caught with a late sucker punch.

In England's group, Group K Albania won 1-0 away at Serbia.

So that is a huge result for them, given the rivalry and the historical and political tensions between those two countries.

And a huge win in the race for the play-off spot below England, if that's not getting carried away.

England, five wins from five, scored 13, haven't conceded.

Play Latvia tomorrow night.

Because of that Serbia-Albania result, they can get their World Cup spot with a win against Latvia.

Your thoughts, George?

I know you're covering them a lot on the improvement in England in the last two games.

I think it's been very obvious, hasn't it?

I mean,

to start with under Tuchel, I think it was underwhelming.

The results were definitely good.

There was a decent performance against Lapier at home where we only won 3-0 and probably on another day it could have been a few more.

But basically since taking the lead against Serbia, we've looked brilliant.

I was there on Thursday night and even though it was a friendly and even though certainly in the second half it felt like a friendly, I was like completely taken aback by the way that England approached the game having gone 1-0 up where England scored within two or three minutes and the relentless pressure and pressing from a team full of Premier League players playing in a friendly in a game that they basically knew they were going to win having gone ahead.

Like Morgan Rogers just never stopped running in the entirety.

Thomas Tuchel was out at the end of the in his technical area, effectively leading the press from the dugout.

It felt to me like a group of players that have completely bought into certainly the out-of-possession work that Tuchel's demanding from them.

And that is exciting because, you know, even though I'm a big Southgate believer and will argue with anyone who tells me he did a bad job, there's no denying that we were a very boring team generally when we went ahead.

It was pragmatic.

We looked to kind of manage games rather than continue.

Whereas, you know, I felt sorry for poor Joe Roden and Ethan Ampidu

on Thursday night who just wanted a second on the ball and couldn't get it.

So,

yeah, it feels like there's been a bit of a shift.

It's still pretty frustrating.

We'll have to see who we play in the March friendlies at Wembley.

But it still feels pretty likely that the next time England face a team of the quality of Spain or Brazil will probably be in a World Cup quarterfinal if we get there, which is not ideal prep for Tuchel not to manage any of their their match against a kind of top tier team until the major tournament but it feels like there's been a huge shift and also i think good on on um thursday that we saw an england team who are able to be really effective um in terms of chance creation goal scoring without drew bellingham and harry kane in the squad so um yeah it's it's things have definitely i think turned in tuchel's favour i just find the whole overall criticizing and questioning of thomas tuchall's decisions um really interesting slash funny because I look at it like this you've you've flown in this like apparent world-class chef right who's got this really successful restaurant cooks these really good meals everyone loves on the continent but you brought him into your fancy London restaurant because this restaurant has got lots of potential but since 66 hasn't quite really got the reviews that you really wanted to get and This chef's got a different way of doing things, but you've brought him in because he's the guy, right?

And I just thought it's worth, I'm in the camp of a handful of people that doesn't believe nations should have foreign managers, but that's just that

ship has sailed.

But you've brought him in, you've gone against George's Park projects, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he might put a certain particular pepper on a meal or a certain sauce that's a little bit different.

And you're like, I'm not quite sure about that, but just let the guy cook.

Let the guy cook.

You've brought him on the premise that this guy is the winner.

I like George, and you won't find a bigger Gareth Southgate fan than me.

But the narrative was, oh, he's a nice guy, unifier, but can't quite win.

So we're going to go the opposite way.

You're going to get the guy who might ruffle a few feathers, but he's the guy that's going to win the thing.

So let the guy get on with it.

Like, he might make a few decisions that you might not agree with, but just trust that the guy that you've brought in and paying a lot of money to, you've brought him in because you feel he knows what he's doing.

And I just find the constant, should he drop Bellingham?

That's poor.

The formation, the football, just let, just trust the guy knows how to win tournaments.

He's going to win you a World World Cup.

He'll be out of a job.

Well, I was going to say, you've got to say something.

We can't just say, well, good on him.

He's picked them.

That's good.

Bye.

Fair point.

Fair point.

Fair point.

But my overall point is that the constant just kind of

biting.

And I just find it really, really funny that this is, you wanted a guy that could win.

This is the guy you've put your faith in that can win.

So just kind of let the guy get on with it and just trust that he knows what he's doing.

I'm just wondering if George let Thomas Tuchel down by sitting in stony silence for the 75 minutes before leaving early to beat the traffic.

Buzz, you'll know better than most people that you can't make noises in the media centre, can you?

You can't I can't I couldn't get up and start um I certainly wasn't watching any Mexican waves either either though from from the from the press box.

Um but I I mean I you know, it's been covered, but I think Tuchel's fully in his right.

It's also it's quite refreshing to have a guy, you know, I actually agree with Jordan, where in an ideal world, I think international football should be showcasing the best homegrown talent and that should be both in terms of players but also in the dugout and coaching stuff.

Like, that should be the way that it is, but it isn't.

And I've got no issue at all with Thomas Tuchel being our manager because it isn't.

Um, but I think it's almost refreshing to have a guy who, unlike Southgate, who was kind of woven into the very fabric of the FA and therefore probably couldn't really make comments like the ones that Tuchel made after the game.

To have a guy who basically is already he signed a contract after the World Cup, it's very unlikely he's going to be our manager after the World Cup, regardless of what happens.

He has no real affinity towards English football, he has no

loyalty towards the FA.

To have a guy who can come in and not really care care if he upsets a few England fans, not really care who he upsets, and put it right.

And there will be a focus, not in the qualifiers in November, but there will be a focus in March because of what he said in the two friendlies ahead of the World Cup as to what the atmosphere is like.

And I'm pretty sure that there will be fewer paper aeroplanes.

There will be a genuine attempt for England fans to go and enjoy themselves and make a noise.

Because what should be said is that the Wales fans, you know, I commented on this on Twitter and I had a lot of England fans saying, what do you expect?

It's a friendly, like, it doesn't matter.

Well, Wales fans, and obviously, away fans are always going to be more vociferous, but they made an absolute racket for the whole second half and they were 3-0 down in a friendly.

So, if they can do that, why can't we find a way, even if it's to collect two, 3,000 England fans and stick them next to the away fans, and then the rest of the 77

can be a family area?

Just find a way to ensure that there is a part.

If you want to be a match England fan and you want to go to Wembley, you can be amongst like-minded people and create a bit of an atmosphere.

Choirs from the home counties, that could happen.

Does anybody, I wondered this, and

we've done this, and every outlet I've heard has done it or written it.

I feel like slightly uncomfortable with the sort of narrative about Jude Bellingham being just a bad bloke.

And I feel there's like a lot of conjecture around it.

And I just wondered if anyone felt that was,

you know,

fine because, you know, rumours are rumours, but I don't know what you think, George.

Because he spoke this weekend about his mental health.

I would say that Jude bellingham speaking out about his mental health in the last week or so a it's obviously a very positive thing that a young footballer can feel like they can do that but secondly it's probably a bit of a message from everybody involved effectively to remind people that this is a young guy yes he might be a superstar and yes he might have the the job that all of us would crave and yes he might have a bank balance that all of us can dream about but that doesn't change the fact that he is a human being where criticism and personal jibes and assumptions about his character are going to hurt him and upset him.

And we, as a nation, we know that there are footballers in the past who have been treated in a certain way that has impacted their

both their professional and personal lives in a negative way.

So, no one really knows the truth.

And I would definitely say that, not just with Bellingham, but in any case, we shouldn't be making assumptions about negative traits of personality and anything else about a player.

I think it's very telling that Bellingham gave that interview.

And you know, we should both read it and what it says, but also maybe between the lines, too.

I think there's there's two things going on here.

I think there's one side whereby I agree with you, Max.

I am a little bit uncomfortable with this narrative building around him that he's a troublemaker.

You know, from what I hear, the England players absolutely love him.

He's not, he's not an issue with any of the England players in the camp.

But there's this thing, I think, in the English kind of mentality of we don't like people that are very confident.

We don't like people that kind of go above their station.

He's a very confident young man.

He's very confident in his ability.

He's very vocal about how much he wants to win.

And we see that on the pitch.

i think that that doesn't chime well with the the way that the english like their footballers to be he's not a hum he's not a humble guy and i think so what the fact that we're members of the of the media and the press here he doesn't do interviews with with the media is frustrating to me because i'd love to speak to him and sit him down and have a chat with him i think he could be quite an interesting person but if he doesn't want to do interviews then he doesn't want to do interviews that's just something that we have to just we have to suck up however i do think there's a world in which thomas do call doesn't take him to the to the world cup next year i think he probably will but it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't part of that squad because if thomas tuchall going back to my earlier point feels that despite having this phenomenal talent in his team actually isn't what he wants this team to be or to play he's a great blanmange and thomas tuchel is making a bolognese doesn't work there you go and both are delicious but maybe if what he wants to do isn't isn't particularly correct and just finally on bedding i would say that i think the reason why thomas succeed doesn't want him is because we're in this era of system managers and it's a little bit similar to bruno fernandez you've got this phenomenal talent that wants to do everything we've all been to school with that guy at school that can get the ball from the goalkeeper beat four players and score a goal in systems that doesn't really work you need to know where your players are going to be and i remember the euros being there last year he'd be at left back sometimes he'd be at right wing he'd be centre mid and i think that's because he knows he can get the ball and do something but in a system i'm not sure that in fact it doesn't work, and that might be the reason why that lack of discipline

might be the reason why it, you know, I have this kind of nagging feeling that there could be an outside chance that he actually shocks the world and doesn't take him to America next year.

Wales play Belgium tonight.

A win could take them to the top of Group J after Belgium and North Macedonia drew 0-0 on Friday.

North Macedonia top on 12 points.

Belgium have 11 from 5.

Wales 10 from 5.

North Macedonia have played 6.

Such an enormous game, Barry.

Yeah, massive.

I wonder how Ellis is feeling about it.

On the day, this Wales side can be very good.

We know how good Belgium can be.

We know how bad Belgium can be.

It's a hard one to call.

I think Belgium probably should win, but it would not be a massive shock if they didn't.

I was pretty concerned about the way the Wales certainly in the first half were on Thursday.

Like, yeah, it's a friendly, but Craig Benamy came out and spoke a lot before the game about how important it was for many reasons because it was England, because they had the Belgium game, because they needed

to basically set the tone.

And

that first half an hour was as poor a performance as I can really remember seeing live in terms of comparison to the opposition.

Like, England were able to cut through Wales at will, whilst Wales were basically unable to get out of their half.

And given the quality of the opposition in terms of individuals against Belgium, is

similar to England in in many ways.

Obviously, it's important that they were better in the second half and they created a couple of chances and forced Pickford into a couple of saves, but they're going to have to be far, far better than they were on Thursday to get a result tonight.

Hughes says, could the Faroe Islands possibly qualify for the World Cup?

Pablo says, please discuss the Faroe Islands, in which there are 7,500 men aged between 18 and 40, produce a squad that's mathematically challenging for qualification.

It's the nation's league growing fish out of minnows.

It's their third win, Jordan.

An unbelievable scene.

Yeah, it was great.

Some good finishes as well in this game.

So, really good goals in this particular game.

And, yes, that jumped out to me is that the Emirates Stadium at full capacity has more people than the population

of this nation.

I love those sort of stats.

And yeah, I think you're right, Max.

I don't think

they will do it, but

I think this particular game they had a momentary celebratory 90 minutes to kind of get through there because

they believe, you know, and if you don't have belief in football, what do you have?

Uh, yeah, absolutely brilliant scenes, weren't there?

Um, uh, before we end part one, uh, producer Ty has done some research, so it's the first time a producer has done research for the pod in decades.

So, I'm gonna read it out

regarding the people who've scored the most goals ever.

If Erling Haaland is to catch them, Arthur Friedrichsreich score from Brazil scored an unconfirmed 1,329 goals in 1,239 matches between 1909 and 1935.

Lagos Tishy, Hungary, who played for Budapest Honved, excuse me, Wilson for the pronunciation, scored 1,917 goals between 1953 and 1971.

So, you know, he's got some work to do that is based on the research by the Rec Sport Soccer Statistics Foundation, the RSSSF.

So thank you for doing all that work.

And that'll do for part one, part two.

We'll begin with with possibly Daishin and Anjiao.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly.

From the BBC, well-placed sources have indicated Sean Dysch is a candidate to replace Ange Postakoglu, who took over from Nuno in September.

It's one of those sentences, Barry, that at the start of the season, you can't write, well, in October, Sean Dysch will be the favourite to to replace Ange at Forrest.

But here we are.

Yeah,

it is ridiculous that Ange

might get sacked after, what is it, seven games, several of which I think Forrest have played quite well in.

But this is the world we live in now, or the football world.

And it is a fact.

I think he's only won one of the past 17 Premier League games.

He's been a head coach of either Spurs or Forest, so that is clearly not sustainable.

His style is the polar opposite of Nuno's.

Sean Deish

is kind of similar to Nuno, but

not as good or not as effective.

If I was a Forest fan, I'm not sure how I'd feel about all this, but

Deich lives locally, not that that matters, but he's

loyal number two.

Ian Wone is got rich forest heritage.

He played under Brian Clough.

Steve Stone, I think, who's also on Daish's coaching staff, he has forest pedigree.

So

the Andre's appointment just looks like it's not going to work out.

They've got Chelsea next, and if they lose that, if he even makes it that far, if they lose that, which they probably will, one imagines he will be gone.

He looks like a dead man walking.

And I

mean, you'd imagine Daish will probably keep them up, which already this early into the season,

that'll be a win for Forest fans, I think.

I can't think of that many occasions of a club making a succession of decisions to completely destroy something that had been built so well.

Like it's to go from Nuno

to Daesh via Ange is one of the most crazy managerial successions I think I've ever heard in my life.

You made it sound like dry, you know, you made it sound like you know you're driving from Cambridge to London via Glasgow.

What are you doing that for?

Yeah.

That's basically it.

I can't understand.

the decision making.

When you appoint a manager like Ange, A, surely you want to do it with some kind of preseason, like rather than right just after preseason when the players who were successful under Nuno have been drilled over the summer to continue playing that way.

And then you've got someone coming in saying, right, we're going to move our defensive line 15 meters further forward.

We're going to complete twice as many passes.

And then when you do that, surely you understand that there are going to be teething issues.

It would be...

absolutely ridiculous for Ange to come in at the time he came in, completely change the way that they're playing football and also win games of football at the same time.

I don't understand what Maranakis was expecting to happen.

But then, just like six weeks after you go and appoint a guy to completely shift the playing style and change the playing ideology, to then move on to someone who will take you kind of backwards behind where Nuno was in terms of playing style.

And then when you consider that I don't think there are any, there's probably any Premier League club who, if they were hiring Nuno, would sat Nuno for Daesh.

The whole thing is, even if, and I'm a Sean Daish fan, I think there's a fair chance he'll do an okay job there.

But even if if he does an incredible job, the process still absolutely stinks.

And I can't believe, if I was a Forest fan, you'd be, you know, you'd be livid.

Stephen Jarrett's ruled out the possibility of a return to Rangers.

Danny Roll is in pole position, George.

You've obviously followed him a lot.

Chevy Wednesday.

Good idea for Rangers.

Good idea for Danny Roll.

Is anyone taking the Rangers job a good idea for anyone?

I don't know.

I mean, I thought that it was a good job for Russell Martins to take, so I'm not sure I'm the right person to ask about this.

But I mean, Ryla is someone who, in his time at Sheffield Wednesday, has shown himself to be incredibly effective.

And,

you know, the job he did at Wednesday, where he came in mid-season and took over a club that were effectively like they were already relegated after a disastrous appointment in the previous manager in Cisco Munioth.

Like, even though it's a very different environment and different club, a different league, there are massive similarities between the two jobs in terms of having to come in and immediately turn things around.

So in that sense, I think it would be good.

He's someone who's definitely deserves a crack at a big job.

You know, he's someone who, when things were going well, was immensely popular at Sheffield Wednesday.

But, you know, he's also quite an abrasive character too.

I can imagine if things don't necessarily start well, then, you know, with the passionate Ranger support, there could be some issues there.

So it feels like it's a bit of a boom or bust appointment if it goes through.

Like, it could be brilliant, but at the same time, if it goes badly, it could be spectacular.

George, could you give us a little pricey of the championship for us

with your EFL hat on?

Coventry leading the way.

It's really interesting, I think.

Yeah, it's really interesting.

Coventry look the kind of class team at this point.

They top the league.

They have scored an absurd amount of goals.

Their goal difference up to this point is already plus 20, which when you consider we're kind of in mid-October is

a phenomenal stat.

But it all still feels very open.

You know, Borough has started under Rob Edwards.

The relegated teams haven't looked great.

You know, Leicester, we still don't know what's happening as to whether or not they're going to get a point seduction, but they've started the campaign pretty well under Matisse Fuentes.

Ipswich haven't started the season too well, but are slowly improving, albeit helped by the fact that they're 1-0 down away at Blackburn Rovers, down to 10 men in the 80th minute, and the game is called off due to a waterlogged pitch and they get to replay it in December, which, as you can imagine, has upset Blackburn Rovers fans quite a lot.

And there are a couple of teams who are struggling that we wouldn't necessarily have expected to struggle.

Norwich have just eight points from nine games, so Liam Manning coming under some pressure after their Derby Day defeat in the old farm on the Sunday before the international break, losing 3-1 at Portman Road.

Southampton and new manager Will still haven't really got going yet eleven points from their nine games down in seventeenth.

Birmingham who started the season so well now have only scored I think eight goals from their nine games on twelve points.

So it feels like a you know, often we always say this, like the everyone always says the championship is the most unpredictable league in the world.

It absolutely isn't.

I mean it's much more unpredictable than the Premier League, but generally parachute pay payment teams do well and teams who have been recently promoted out of League One do badly.

This season, it feels like it's way more open because the perceived good teams aren't necessarily as good as they normally are.

And, you know, Sheffield Wednesday are clearly a team in a lot of trouble.

And we'll have to see what happens there in terms of if

they can find someone who can buy the club off Chancery, fingers crossed.

But if not, what might come otherwise in terms of administration and points, deductions, and the rest of things.

But, you know, they've picked up six points so far from their games.

And, you know, their rivals, Sheffield United, are rooted to the bottom of the table.

But generally, there's some of the poorer teams that we thought, you know, relegation favourites, Preston are, you know, I think fourth favourites relegation.

They're currently sitting fourth on 16 points.

QPR, we're in that vicinity, and they're currently in sixth.

So, maybe this time it's true.

Maybe this is the season where the championship truly is unpredictable.

Barry, what do you make of Jack Wilshire to Luton?

I don't really have an opinion on it, Max.

Is that allowed?

You're allowed an opinion.

You can be completely indifferent.

You can be indifferent to Jack Wilshire.

If Jack Wilshire takes over over as Luton head coach, he will do so with my very best wishes.

I'll just say briefly, as an Arsenal fan, it's good to see him getting his first managerial position.

And Luton fans can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it feels like the sort of club that will give him a chance to really get his hands dirty there and

put his imprint on that club and do some good work.

So it feels on the surface like it's a good, that's it, that's a good first job for him to have.

Yeah, I totally agree.

I mean, Luton are a club in League One who still get parachute payments.

So as a manager, I think that's probably quite a good job to take.

He also comes in in October when, you know, the expectation for promotion after a poor start to the season has dampened a little bit.

And I think that's probably why Luton have gone down this road, where they're probably thinking, this is a guy who's obviously an amazing player, decent coaching pedigree.

Like, maybe we're going to hire one of the most promising young managers in English football.

But if we don't, then it's mid-season.

We've already had a poor start.

And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work out.

So I think for Wilshire, he comes into a club where he will definitely get time.

The expectation won't be overly high.

He's not going to get sacked in March if they're 7th.

He might get sacked in March if they're 17th.

But, you know, with the squad that he's inherited, it's a good job for him.

And I think Luton will feel like they're giving an opportunity to someone who is deserving of that.

That'll do for part two.

Part three, Rupert Taylor joins us.

He's the founder and manager of Grenfan Athletic.

There's a documentary out called Beacon of Hope on TNT Sports.

It's a beautiful film, film, and we'll chat to him next.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly.

Let's talk about a documentary that's on TNT Sports at the moment.

It's called Beacon of Hope, the Grenfell Athletic Story.

Really pleased to say Rupert Taylor, one of the founders of Grenfell Athletic, is joining us and he's here now.

Hey, Rupert, how are you?

Yeah, all good.

Thank you.

Not too bad at all.

It's a beautiful film.

And if we go to the start of it, before the fire, Rupert, there were three pictures under Grenfell Tower that were just a central part for the community there.

And you worked as a

youth, in a youth club, is that right?

Yeah.

And there were kids, there were people that had died.

And I'm sort of loath to bring you back to that time.

And you don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but there are, you know, there were people who died in Grenfell that you you had known since they were kids, one you'd taught to ride a bike.

Yeah, so

there was a number of children that I knew.

I spent a lot of time with, personal time as well.

So

I was a youth worker

at the local youth organisation.

I then became the manager from 2009 to 2018.

And in that time, we would take young people on various residentials or places away from the kind of comfort zone just to kind of get to know them more, but more importantly,

allowing them to explore themselves, understand themselves a little bit more.

We know when we take young people out of their comfort zone, how different they can be and how much learning can happen within.

And

when we were on a residential in Oxford,

I realised that quite a few of the young people didn't know how to ride a bike so I spent I spent a whole day working on a couple of young people and one of them was Baruch yeah who I taught how to ride.

There was one bit match

which I loved at the start of the documentary where somebody was saying that whenever they were on one of those pitches playing they used to re always

play as well as they could because they hoped there might be an Arsenal scout in the tower just watching watching out the window or something.

Which I thought was great.

Yeah, I'm sure a few of the players felt like that.

I think

Tayshian has Tayshian Hayden Smith,

he's often said like

when he was on the pitch, he felt like it was the burnabout, and everyone was there watching.

So he's got to perform at his best.

And so did Paul.

Paul felt like, yeah, he needed an Arsenal scout around or they were watching so

yeah he was able to to also perform at his best I mean me I

knew there was no one in the tower and I probably wasn't that good to to get scouted anyway

but everyone listening Rupert knows the power of the game right well that's that's part of the reason we love it and and you say at one point in the film that after the tragedy People just wanted to lose themselves in

football.

When we first started out our training session, we had about 50 people turn up when we told people that

we're starting a football team, it's for young men within the community.

I've never seen the amount of people that turn up, to be honest.

And obviously, it's one football team.

You can only play 11, you can

have a squad of 25.

I mean, Sunday League, I mean, that's even that's quite big for Sunday League.

But we do it and we've done it.

I didn't expect the numbers to turn up.

We had a professional boxer, David Adlai, turn up to...

Yeah, yeah, he came.

He came to train.

Yeah, and a few other interesting people,

bereaved survivors.

There were survivors that knew that they weren't going to play in the team.

that just turned up because it was a session put on which they felt like they wanted to be a part of.

It was insane, to be honest, the amount of numbers that came along.

Rupert, Ms.

Jordan, here, what did you want to get from this documentary?

Was there thinking going into this, something you wanted to get across in particular and achieve from this?

If so, what was that?

So, I'm about building the legacy of the 72 people that lost their lives.

I think, in order for people to

have a legacy, we have to tell the story.

It's important to tell the story.

It's important for people to know that we exist.

I mean, for the first three years, we didn't tell anybody that we existed.

So if you wasn't part of the local community, you would never know that

we were formed.

I allowed our first kind of newspaper article to come out in 2020, although prior to that we had other people wanting to be involved and wanting to kind of tell our story.

I declined because it wasn't the right time.

I didn't feel like the players were ready.

I didn't think that we were ready as a club to kind of be stalked.

You know, imagine being fish in a fishbowl.

Once you tell people you exist, people are going to want to kind of gravitate towards it.

So yeah, after 2020, we kind of told people we were around and we existed.

And we've slowly kind of built up from there.

I think the other side of it is, but you know, wanting people to be involved.

I think

when you release a documentary, you've got to accept that

the world are going to want to be involved when it touches them in the way that it should.

And I imagine it has done, definitely from the feedback that I've received.

And it's essential that

you tell a story and the people jumping on or wanting to be a part of it

understand the story in its entirety.

So I think there was a number of things that

we had wanted or that

I wanted in particular.

And it was to, in short, tell the story and bring people along.

for our journey.

So

that's it, essentially.

Rupert, you said

you were initially reluctant to put your story out there, but we saw in the documentary where you had your kit launch, and bear in mind this is a Sunday League team at the time.

This is what you were.

And you had various England players, Damon Alburn, Sam Smith, Noel Gallagher, Ashley Walters, Hugh Jackman, Tom Cruise, A.J.

Tracy, all these mega celebs, A-listers, posing with your shirt, wearing your shirt, wishing you luck.

That must have been so odd.

And did it at any point get a bit overwhelming?

Overwhelming

for me is probably not.

We don't walk hand in hand.

I'm a super kind of chilled individual.

Was it phenomenal?

Yes.

I think our aim is to be everybody's second favourite team.

So

definitely, you know, having all of the celebs wear our kit just shows the power of Grenfell Athletic and what it could actually do to dismantle tribalism in football.

You know, I'm a Liverpool fan and I support

I've supported them since my mum put me in a shirt at like three or four years old.

But I still support Grenfell Athletic also.

One of them I love and the other one I love more.

Seeing the celebs and A-listers in the shirts just reinforces

what Grenfell Athletic can be.

Football's such a great escape.

I wonder when you're playing opposition teams, are they more respectful of you because of where you've come from?

Or once the game starts, we see in the final against Brentford Town.

I'm not going to give any spoilers away, apart from their number eight, looks like a bit of a dirty bastard.

Maybe he's unlucky in the edit.

But like, are they like really respectful?

Or once the game starts, you know, it's right, let's just spoil their thing you know because footballers you know white line fever exists everywhere yeah so so you're right white line fever does exist everywhere and it definitely does with grenfell athletic i think we often get teams that

like in our league for example that they don't have a squad or an 11 throughout the season but when they're playing grenfell athletic it's like pull out all the stops oh really get the ringers in yeah yeah check in the team sheet check the team sheet taking pictures of players as he signed is he signed

but um

no i think once once a ball's kicked i think everybody's respectful before

and uh like uh pre-match and post-match you know you've got respect but um but yeah once they're they're on the pitch i think everybody forgets who we are And look, testament to you, for many reasons, right?

I think what you've built is incredible.

But, I mean, I've watched a lot of these, you know, documentaries of top, top teams, and the team talks are shit.

And your team talks

are incredible.

How do you want me to respond?

Yeah, I suppose it's not a question.

It's just like fair play.

Obviously, you have such a strong message.

And I think it's really interesting.

And I presume every single game you mention why this team is there, right?

I don't actually.

Oh, really?

Yeah, no, I'm very different.

I think...

For me, I've been doing it for eight years, and I'm just very clear that just like any other manager, that we want to win.

Everybody loves a winning team.

So, in order to also help build out the message, I can do what I do as the charity, the Grenfell Athletic charity, off the pitch, providing opportunities for young people and

the teams.

But on the pitch, there still needs to be the message that we're no pushovers and we want to win silverware.

So,

I don't often remind the players

what this badge stands for.

I just am very clear that the badge is the badge and

we should respect it when we wear it.

You've started a women's team

a few years ago.

I mean, there's a girl who scores an absolute ping in the documentary.

It's a brilliant strike.

Steph Ashwood.

She's pinging in worldies from all over the place.

Steph is a gift.

She's been a gift.

She's the captain of the women's team and

she deserves to be captain.

Not just for

her ability,

but, you know, she's injured.

She's standing on the pit.

She's shouting at everybody.

She's coaching them.

She's young herself and, you know, she plays the game like she's been in it for quite some time.

Definitely can lend the ball a little bit more, but I just think that comes with

making sure that she trusts all of her players.

But yeah, no, she's a fantastic energy and leads by example.

Goes without saying that

the girl's got a pin.

She can hit them.

I think something that really struck me, and it's so obvious when you think about it, is that and you know, one of the players who got out with his baby, went back in and got his ex-partner out.

Said actually, it wasn't the night that was hard for him.

It was afterwards, you know, and that's so obvious, isn't it?

That something like this would affect you forever, for your whole life.

And he says, Look, this football team saved his life.

Joseph John,

he's been with Grenfell Athletic from the beginning.

He's been very clear

that

without the football team, he would not be alive anymore.

But he's a dear brother, and

I love him, we love him, and we've given him a lot of support over the years.

I think

the times where it's been very clear, I've had many snippets of clarity

has been when we've taken our players away.

Because when you take them away, you get to spend the most time with them.

If you imagine we do a couple of hours of training a week and then

a couple of hours on a match day,

you're looking at maximum of five hours.

When you go away for five days,

you know,

the hours are there.

You know, that you're with them 24-7, so you get to see who they are, their routines, what they're about.

When we've gone away, we've really got to delve a little bit deeper into the souls of our players.

And he needs us, much like the other players.

This documentary is all about hope and unity, and it's amazing.

And it mentions, of course, but doesn't really focus on the fight for justice.

But at the moment, there have been no arrests or criminal charges levelled against any individual in relation to the fire.

The police and the CPS saying it's unlikely any charges will be announced before the end of 2026 at the earliest due to the sheer scale and complexity of the case.

That must be felt so strongly within the community.

It's definitely felt strongly, for sure, by everybody.

Grenfell Athletic has always been a place of solace and respite.

I wouldn't call it escapism.

I wouldn't describe it as an escape.

But the players deal with Grenfell

every day.

Whether it's going past it,

being underneath it, talking about it, whatever it is.

Grenfell Athletic has always been a place for a player to unload, make mistakes and have a safety net.

It's crucial that I remain steadfast and I never mix the two

my personal views with what Grenfell Athletic was established for and the people that are in it.

I think we all have our opinions, but Grenfell Athletic itself is not politically driven.

And

there are

organisations out there, mainly Grenfell United, that's fighting a good fight to

make sure that justice

gets served.

But Grandfather Athletic is a completely different entity that drives for the future and the legacy of something that was horrific.

Loads of listeners

will go and watch this documentary now and will probably wonder how they can help out.

Like, can they buy shirts?

What can they do?

I was going to offer myself as a holding midfielder, but the level looks a little high for me.

Some of those stepovers, I reckon I'd do my ankle trying to chase them.

But how can listeners help out?

We need volunteers with quality, people that have got something to bring to the table, including fundraising.

Over the years, we haven't focused heavily on fundraising, not because we're plush with cash, because we're not.

People that can write bids and help us fundraise would be

astronomical for us, like insanely important.

I can't express that enough.

Volunteers,

coaches, people that are just happy to get their hands dirty I'd say people that can open doors through networking and opportunities I think

if you can help open a door

for

a player to have you know some work or work experience or just different experiences I think that that helps because we really

We're really committed in showing all the players and young people that there's another step to life, that there's another

part of life that they may not have seen before.

And we want to give them that opportunity.

Well,

it's a beautiful film out of a quite devastating tragedy.

And I think what you've done is absolutely amazing, Rupert.

So again, not a question, just a compliment.

And thanks so much for your time.

Really appreciate it.

Thanks for having me, guys.

Take care.

You can watch the documentary Beacon of Hope, the Grand Follow Athletic Story on TNT Sports.

And that'll do for today.

Thanks, everyone else.

Thank you, Jordan.

Cheers, mate.

Thanks, Barry.

Thank you.

Thank you, George.

Football Weekly is produced by Tyler Papula with Joel Grove.

Our executive producer is Phil Maynard, and we'll be back on Wednesday.