Chelsea lose at Leeds and Liverpool scrape a point – Football Weekly

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Hello and welcome to the Guardian Football Weekly. Another almost perfect night for Arsenal.
An unspectacular three points for them while their rival Spolter, this time Chelsea beating at Leeds.

A massive win for Daniel Farker. More drop points for Liverpool, this time at home to Sunderland.
Wilson Isidore should have won it for the visitors late on.

Register LeBree's men, mightily impressive once again. Aston Villa, a third, a brilliant comeback at Brighton on a great run, and now Ollie Watkins has started scoring.

Also, today, Wolves still have only two points, and it's December. Doesn't feel like enough points while Palace win at Burnley.
We'll look ahead to the weekend's games.

Ask if Barney was right about how to get to Selfhurst Park. Answer your questions, and that's today's Guardian Football Weekly.

On the panel today, Barry Glen Denning. Welcome.
Hi, Max. Hello, Jacob Steinberg.
Hello. And welcome, Jonathan Wilson.
Morning, how are you doing? Very good. Mike says, Why has punditry got so bad?

Not a single paid journalist, expert, pundit predicted Liverpool to fall off a cliff, Villa's resurgence, Sunderland's success, Chelsea supposedly having a good season, and Amarim a stinker, yet level on points after tomorrow night.

Experts know nothing, do they? Barry, why are you all so terrible? I don't know. I mean, I think that's slightly unfair.
We're pundits, we're not

psychics. and

the predictions we made at the start of the season think things change, Max.

It's quite difficult to foresee the say the massive drop-off in form that Liverpool are going to have, to foresee that Virgil Van Dyck will not be up to his usual high standards.

See also Ibrahim Akenate, Mo Salah.

You can only speculate as to how new players will fit into systems. Sunderland's new players have all hit the ground running.
Other teams' new players, not so much.

I think everyone presumed Alexander Isak, for example, will be a very good addition to the Liverpool squad.

Thus far, he hasn't been due to his own shortcomings and due to the fact that Liverpool players seem incredibly reluctant to get the ball to him at speed.

But no, the short answer is, I suppose, yeah, we're all rubbish. rubbish, yeah, but I've no problem with being called rubbish.
What I do object to is uh people

calling me or other people rubbish when they have the benefit of 2020 hindsight.

So, unless you have also made predictions at the start of the season, put them in the public domain, then I don't think you're really in a position to criticise. Yes, there you go, Mike.

Anyway, so we start at Ellen Road, leads three, Chelsea one. I certainly didn't predict this one, Jacob.

No, but maybe Chelsea fans might have because after such a good week with beating Barcelona so emphatically and getting the draw with Arsenal with 10 men playing so well in that game, I think they came into it wondering what they might do against a supposed lesser side.

It's been a bit of a problem for Chelsea down the years is that they, especially in the last few, especially in the last few years, is that they're capable of raising themselves in the big games and then in the games that you need to win,

they don't turn up. And that's

part of why they haven't won the title since 2017. So, this was a really big test that Mareska kind of talked about post-Barcelona.

He very quickly brought up the leads and the Bournemouth game coming up on Saturday as being massive for them, and they weren't able to pass that. He made the changes, which

when it's been done this season, the rotation is worked in certain games,

certain other times,

it's not quite clicked. You know, the Carabad game away in the Champions League last month comes to mind, which they were kind of lucky to draw 2-2.

And last night, again, he was out, obviously, was enforced changes in midfield without Kaisedo after the suspension against Arsenal. But

he left out Netto, he left out Fafana, brought in players who just weren't quite up to it.

And it seemed like they almost that inexperience kind of kicked in a little bit as well, where perhaps they weren't able to withstand that early barrage from Leeson.

Were they quite appreciative of what a Leeds v. Chelsea game was going to be like at Ellam Road?

I mean, they might have expected a promoted side to really get into them, but were there the players in that team who quite appreciated the historic significance of what this would actually mean to Leeds?

And were there the players to get them through that? So the first, you know, 15, 20 minutes were they able to withstand everything that leads through at the minute.

It just kind of looks like they weren't able to get through that and then start playing their football, you know, conceding conceiving a goal from a set piece.

It just looks like they were bullied throughout that period and

didn't do any of the basics right. And so they end up losing a game that ultimately they should have won.
This is probably why they're very insistent that they aren't title challenges.

And Wilson, I guess Daniel, you know, leads, they're big, aren't they? And as Jacob Belusu leads Chelsea, you know, it has that historic significance.

Did Daniel Farker play that match of the day from the 60s when everyone just beat each other up?

Because they really, it's such a cliche, but it just felt felt like Leeds wanted it more Brian so it's the 1970 FA Cup final and replay isn't it the two

the two incredibly violent games between Chelsea and Leeds which I think was responding to stuff that had happened previously but I don't think Jacob will know this better than me but it seems to me that Fafano is absolutely huge that his injury has really sort of hurt Chelsea this season with Colville being out as well and he obviously can't play or struggle to play more than one game a week and I think if you look at games when Fafana's played this season I don't think they've let in more than one in a game when he started apart from a Brentford game where he went off at half-time.

And obviously the second half of that game where things went wrong. So I think they really need Fafana's presence there to give them a solidity at the back.
Yeah, that is a problem they've got that

they are lacking experience and they are lacking calm heads. And so if a couple of them are out, they do struggle a bit.

The fact that Farker went for the two up front, you know, the 5-3-2 he'd finished with against City, or that he changed to half-time against City.

I think playing against a strike pairing is difficult for defenders now. They're not familiar with it.

So if you've got two fairly inexperienced defenders and most of their football has been one picks up the lone centre forward, the other covers behind, and suddenly you've got two players to deal with, that's a challenge that even experienced players have sort of forgotten how to deal with.

Never mind

the inexperienced players Chelsea had last night. And Big Man, Big Man was quite fun, Barry, wasn't it?

Metcha and calvert lewin yeah and they really bullied the chelsea centre halves both of them played really well i thought i don't know if it's fair to say maresca

underestimated leads but with moise casedo out through suspension

maybe

resting rhys james was a mistake but Apparently, his minutes have to be managed carefully. So that

it may have been the sensible decision to leave him out even though Chelsea clearly missed him. Adiashili and Tosin Aderbayo did not play well at all.

Tosin Aderbayo gave away two goals but that was because Leeds bullied them.

They're a very aggressive side. The Ellen Road crowd really got behind them and I think Chelsea were intimidated by the atmosphere there last night.

They're a very young team and that's quite the cauldron to go into.

Leeds were just more aggressive more determined and thoroughly deserve their win you often hear commentators say you know x won't score an easier goal in his career and the the match today commentator did say dominic calvert lewin won't score an easier goal in his career but has anybody scored an easier goal in their career i'm i'm trying now obviously all all memory goes to david newgent but does anyone have a an easier goal than that for calvert limit not off the top of my head does that mean that is the easy is that the easiest goal Is that the easiest goal ever then?

If a chance is too easy, does that then bring it back around a little bit to the other side?

That there's a bit of you going, oh God, if I miss this, this will be the worst miss in the entire history of his sport that's been going on for 150-odd years, 160-odd years.

Does that then put pressure on because it's too easy? And I think the fact that it is Dominic Calvert Lewin has to be factored in as well.

Does that affect the easiest way? If you were going to put your house on anyone to miss that chance, he would definitely be on the shortlist. But I don't think it's possible to miss it.

That's the point. I see what you mean about the pressure, Wilson, because the ball is stopped, and he like he's it's in it's basically in the goal, he's in the goal.

I mean, I suppose, Jacob, it's really good for him that he's got two in two because he has now got this kind of reputation of being a guy that doesn't a striker that doesn't score goals.

And there was a time when he was kind of the next off the rank if Harry Kane got injured for England.

Yeah, he had that little period in the 2021 season, I think, and under anchilotti where he looked like he was potentially some kind of challenger to harry kane and he was he was starting for england in a couple of friendlies i think i think he scored at least one around that period it's it's it's kind of that that blurry covered period with empty ground so um i can't quite remember the games but he got he even went to the euros um the one the euro 2020 where they got to the final don't think he actually played for for england in in that i just think there was points at which he wasn't even in the match day squad.

But at that point, he did look like a really top striker. And there were bigger teams looking at him.

But I think it's just the after that, partly, I guess, what happened at Everton, you know, the funk that they got into, and also just the injuries with Calvert Lewin.

I think it's really held him back. But I actually do think he's a pretty good player.
Just it's been the fitness with him. And that's ultimately why he's at Leeds and not ended up with a bigger move.

There have been clubs higher up the table who have looked at him and points last season where I think it was the summer of

2024 where there were some bigger teams wondering if he might make a good backup

in certain situations, just didn't didn't go with it. And he's ended up in this situation instead.

But if he's on form and if he's if he's fit, then I think they've got a pretty good experience Premier League striker.

I think Armando Brosia has very much cornered the mark the Premier League market for big strikers who don't score goals. Who also part of the Everton Funk.

I mean, the Everton Funk is a real thing, isn't it? If you want to pick up Neil Mope,

see also,

if you want to be a striker that scores no goals, get in for the Everton Funky. And the two they have at the moment.
I mean,

for our Barry and Betto, the lead singers of Everton Funk right now, aren't they?

Tanaka's goal was a brilliant strike. And good to see Cole Palmer back on the pitch.
Let's go to Anfield. Oh, Wilson.
Wilson Isidore. It's Wilson comma.
Wilson Isidore in injury time.

What a ball from Roofs. And, you know, how he's sort of one-on-one.
You know, it's just an extraordinary moment in a football match, that, isn't it? Yeah, he was too straight, I think, is the problem.

Ideally, in that circumstance, as a forward, you want a slight angle. Unless Allison left a space, which Alison is very good in one-on-ones, he pretty much had to go around him.

And by doing that, he made the angle a bit tighter so the shot didn't have a power and Scares was able to get back. It just shows, I think, the sort of the intelligence of both Isidore and Roofs.

That Sunday had been under real pressure for 10 minutes, like barely able to get out of their box.

And Isidore's smart enough to think, well, if I just hang around 10 yards inside my own half, I can make my run so that I'm hitting speed before I can be offside. Roofs has clearly been aware of that.

I don't know if that's something they've talked about, but maybe that is something they can do. But I guess the pass is easier out of your hands, but still, it's a great pass.

I don't think Sunday would live to regret it, but it does feel like two points that they could, two more points they could have snapped up.

And they did hit the I know Liverpool hit the woodwork as well, but Sunderland did hit the woodwork twice in that game as well. Yeah, I thought they were really impressive again, Barry.

I mean, we've talked about the impressive parts of Sunderland, but you know, Brobby Holt held it up, it was a really good focal point.

Jacker again, and they've got this really good mix of you know, your tough guys like Ballard and then your

Lafayette and your tablet, Talbys have got real quality. Yeah,

they were fearless, pretty confident in what they were doing.

I think they were somewhat held helped by the fact that Liverpool did not play well at all. They were very slow and ponderous.

I'm perfectly happy with that point. It would have been nice if they had nicked it at the end, but they've been massively impressive.
I do worry about the festive period.

You know, it's Manchester City next, then Newcastle at home, then they've loads of players going to AFCON, but that will give quite a few of the players who helped them win promotion who haven't really got much of a look in this season it'll be time for them to step up and they'll be eager to prove themselves um

so

i think it speaks volumes that the fact sunderland went to an field got a draw and could have won and nobody is massively surprised i think that speaks volumes of what they've brought to the the premier league a lot of neutrals seem to really like

watching sunderland and like what they're doing and uh that's that's nice. Two wins in seven at Anfield for Liverpool.
Salah came on Jacob didn't really do a lot.

I only watched the second half live but when Isak came off I didn't actually know he was playing like genuinely like I was like ah he is there like it it is quite extraordinary how little fluidity this side have.

Yeah

there's a tweet doing the round at the moment among West Ham circles which is

every team thinks their systems clicked when it just turns out they were playing West Ham. That's all it was.

So he went with

the same setup as he did on Sunday.

Perhaps that was just a one-off and it's not going to be a long-term solution for them.

Yeah, it just looks like they're so low on confidence. And

when the away form is seeping into the home form, then that's a huge worry for Liverpool because you would just expect them to get through this kind of game, even when it's been a struggle away from home but instead it's now the forest game the PSV game and okay they they got away with this one but they were really they were really lucky I mean the I suppose they they take a the one positive is

the speed that Kiesa showed to get back to clear that off the line if anybody was it wouldn't he wouldn't have been the player you would have expected to to get back to stop Isidore scoring there so slot took that positive and you know because he was saying it it Kiesa could have decided that's not up to me it's up to up to someone else to get back.

But he at least showed the desire to get back there. But otherwise,

it just feels like it's a slump that they can't get out of. And it's another hard game on

Saturday because they've got to go to Leeds. So they're probably going to be really, really up for it both after what they've done last night and just

when they look at Liverpool and think that this is just such a such a vulnerable vulnerable team.

I think that probably the win at West Ham, who were so poor, and obviously the thing that happened with Paquetta at the end skewed it as well, may just be a one-off, and this is where they are at the moment.

How would you fix if you were in a slot, Wilson, what would you do? I mean, I think not picking Salah

makes sense, and it's going to be forced on them anyway by the Cup of Nations.

I think it's now the 15th that they have to release players. Although FIFA does seem to have said that clubs can come up to individual arrangements, which

that's that's a whole other issue, but it is sort of disgraceful how the Cup Nations has been treated given that any other tournament's a fourteen day window, this is six days, and clubs have been told, actually, you can come to your own arrangement.

So that's kind of scandalous. But yeah, I don't know.
I mean, there's so many players are

out of form, confidence is low. Yeah, they're clearly short of defenders.
I mean, I'm sure they'd love to give Kanate a break from a team, but they can't.

We could have brought in Joe Gomez earlier, I guess, but now they don't have any fit right back, so Gomez has to play a right back.

I think, I mean, it's not a case of writing this season off, but I think it's pretty obvious now that the future does not include Salah, the future beyond the end of this season, maybe beyond January.

And so I guess building towards that future is all they can do. While hopefully from their point of view, getting in the top five and getting in the Champions League.
Yeah, the league's gone.

Yeah, do you think Salah, that's, you know, because he was so brilliant last season.

So, and look, we've talked about the impact of Jotter on all the squad and the players, and maybe it's affected Salah more, but

is it physically, you think, that they need to plan without Salah?

I think if you look at the players they signed in the summer, and clearly that as well was slightly influenced by Jotta, that they had to buy an extra centre forward that maybe they wouldn't have bought at this stage.

And

every time I say that, I'm conscious that it feels slightly jarring in the context of a tragedy, but

it did clearly mean they had to slightly change their transfer plans.

I don't see how the players they brought in, given that Wierts was signed apparently with a promise he could play centrally, I don't see how you do that with a right-sided forward who doesn't really track back.

If the future is that 4-2-3-1, which Schlott used at Fire and Hood, he seems to be trying to transition Liverpool towards. I don't really see the Salah fits in that other than as a sub.

Given that he's not scoring goal, he's got like four goals this season, which is not terrible, but it's it's not to his standards.

It doesn't justify the lack of defensive work he does, the lack of cover he gives to his right back, which is part of the problem.

I think they they they do have to look to the future and look at how this is going to work.

And even if they're almost using the second half of the season to to hone what their transfer plans are next summer, so if there is still significant money on the table from Saudi Arabia for Salah,

I think the right thing to do would be to look to take it. It depends if Salah can adapt as well.
I mean,

is he willing to adapt to being a sub

a squad player for them? I mean, it doesn't necessarily seem like the character who would happily happily take to that.

I mean, I remember being at the West Ham Liverpool gaming towards the end with Klopp, which was one of the very few games on the Klopp where Salah was dropped. And there was the whole thing where he

the row over when he was coming on and he walked through the mix zone afterwards and I think he said,

if I talk now, there'll be fire. So

not sure if he's the kind of player

who would think that I need to adjust in this way. I'm in my 30s, maybe my minutes get managed, but it's not actually, it's not actually, wouldn't be out of this world for that to for that to happen.

I mean, you know, you look back at how Ferguson used to deal with gigs and skulls, for example, when they got into their 30s, the the minutes would be managed they'd be targeted for certain games and they they accepted it and their careers were the careers were prolonged and I mean Salah it's not like it's a just this season if you look back to last season the the goals kind of dried up after the city away win in in February so this is actually quite a long dip in form by his standards that he's having at the same time he's still capable of coming up with some amazing moments like the the goal at Brentford this season so there's probably still a use to him it's just whether or not he's willing to, I think, to adapt that use.

I don't think he is. And I think the more likely scenarios, as Jonathan says, is the money from Saudi on the table.
He's not going to go anywhere else on that contract. Yeah.

Lovely to see Luke O'9 make his Premier League debut. People who watch Sunday until I die will remember him as the second nicest person in it after that Cabby, who I think was called Pete.

And great to see Super Kevin Phillips in the crowd.

You know, interestingly, while cutting away to famous people really annoys me, cutting to club legends in the cheap seats, seats, I think, is absolutely brilliant. More of it, please.

And Jacob mentioning Liverpool's a waveform seeping into their home form.

I'm desperate for Spurs a waveform to seep into their home form, but we'll see if that happens at the weekend against Brentford. Anyway, that'll do for part one.
Part two will begin at the Amex.

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Hi, folks, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman.

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Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly, Brighton 3 Villa 4, Villa a third Wilson, six straight winners, all competitions. And this was a great comeback from them.

Yeah, I mean, seeing all down at Brighton, they've got a great home record. You sort of thought, I mean, Villa have been on this incredible run.

Didn't win any of the first six games of the season. And then,

was it 12 out of 14 since they've won? Or was it 13 out of 15 now? But, yeah, on an extraordinary one,

they come back. And

Bezo coming in for Martinez

at fault for the first goal, but then makes that astonishing save from Welbeck later on.

One of those saves that, actually, when you see the replay, doesn't look as good as it felt in real life, but well, not in real life, but in real speed.

It's great reactions from Welbeck to get his head on it and direct a goalwards, and great reactions from Bezot to save it.

So they won the XG quite comfortably, Villa, which I was slightly surprised by.

But yeah, if they hadn't had that sort of funk at the start, there was a lot of funk going on today, isn't there? The Villa funk.

They literally just seemed to be they were sulking because they hadn't gotten the Champions League last season and then PSR stopped them spending a billion pounds on players or something.

But once they got over that and noticed, actually, we do have a really good squad, then they're really reaping the benefits. And I think Doniel Marlin,

I sort of did the game when they won at Leeds, was it two weeks ago? He came on a half-time, made a huge difference in that game. I think he's a really gifted player.

Ollie Watkins, Jacob, they'd gone on this great run without Watkins scoring any goals. He scored a couple.
His second, or was it his first?

The one that put them just before half-time, I think, where Morgan Rogers plays a brilliant pass and he finishes it like a striker in form.

Like, if they add his goals, sort of interesting that they are now third and have not been any part of any conversation about the title, I guess, because Arsenal are probably better.

But, you know, they are putting themselves in the mix. Yeah, did you see a celebration when he scored as well, that second goal?

Sort of ran into the net and sort of shouted at the Brighton fans behind the scenes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did he say

that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that.

I don't know what it was, I don't, they didn't really, it was hard to tell on the highlights what that was all about, but I quite enjoyed that, that bit of, that bit of needle from Ollie Watkins.

He's kind of got that a little bit. I think he did it against, he did it against Brentford a couple of years ago when he went back there.

And I think he always feels a little bit that he's a bit under underestimated. I know there was sort of a bit of that feeling around England.

The Euros, he thought, sort of thought people. didn't have him, wouldn't have him in their squads and everything.

And then he, I think he uses that as a bit of as motivation at times and obviously that summer goes and scores the goal against holland to get into the final and i think this season again probably he's probably feeling a bit miffed at really being really being written off quite a lot and uh obviously his form hasn't been fantastic and i think emery said before the game that they're having to manage him because of this knee pain that he's playing through last season they probably would have been able to take him out because they had um for the start of the season they had Duran and then Rashford comes in.

This season they're having to play through it much more. That's coupled with having to play in the Europa League as well, Thursday, Sunday.
So it's been probably

physical grind for Ollie Watkins. But we do know that he's one of the best strikers in the Premier League when he's on form.
And it's good to see him get back amongst the goals.

Another tough one on Saturday to come because they've got that Arsenal, a bitterly weakened Arsenal defense to come, but still probably the best defence in the league, even with that.

But he'll be feeling so much more confident from from from those two you know the first one's just a poacher's goal but the second one is such a good finish just as you say looked like it hadn't been what

10 15 games since since he scored I think he'd only scored one all season that was against Fulham as you say for them to for them to do that without him scoring it's a bit like Chelsea going on that massive unbeaten run uh without without Cole Palmer he he is so he is so important to them so if if they can if they can get him going again, then I don't think the title, but I think they'll be up there for the top four or top five.

That second goal Watkins scored was very

serious end-to-end stuff because Villa thought they'd scored from a corner. Cash sent the ball in.

Consat headed the ball against the post, but as the ball hit the post, Bartford Bruggin fell into the net. So the net rippled.
And I think Villa's players thought they'd scored.

Certainly the fans did. Brighton broke up field.
I think it was Brian Gruder shot straight at Bezo. He gave the ball to Torres, who sent Watkins away on his bike.

It was quite fun because Watkins had three defenders breathing down his neck as he went through on goal. So it was a very well taken finish under quite a lot of pressure.

Yeah, I think it was Rogers that put him through. But you're right.
I really thought I was waiting for goal line technology. I was waiting for them to say that

for me, it's like the ball had crossed the line completely.

And it was a sort of not quite a Wilson scenario, possible scenario a Wilson scenario variant without a handball in it or whatever your scenario was but I guess Barry that win for Villa really sets up the Arsenal game at the weekend or should we not should we not go on on whether wins set up games

after what we did to the Chelsea Arsenal game Lewis Dunk made his 500th appearance for Brighton so well done to him this club is my whole life I've been here since I was 10 or 11 so it means everything to me the pride and the honor to put on the shirt and the captain's armband every game to play every day in training is still there and it always will be That is some feat, isn't it?

So we go to the Emirates, Arsenal 2, Brentford 0. You were there, Jacob.
Did you have a nice time? Yep. I had a nice time.
Good, I'm pleased.

It wasn't a particularly memorable game. I mean, luckily, I do remember what happened less than 24 hours on, so that's okay.
But by tomorrow, I think I might have forgotten a lot of this game.

Yeah, it was very much one of those when they if they win the title, no one will go back to this game.

I think whoever was on CoCom said that, and I was like, yeah, that's exactly the right thing to say about this game. Yeah, I suppose

the one, two little bits away from it are that it's

the night after

Manchester City concede four at

Fulham, you know, brings you know the whole Mourinho back in 2004, 5-4 as a hockey score.

And then the night after Arsenal just run through a very efficient 2-0 win in a home game against mid-tableside.

And I suppose that brings up the contrast.

And

you look at all their rivals or closest challenges at teams around them this at the moment.

Villa can see three, Chelsea can see three, City can see four, Arsenal without Moscara, who went off in the first half after a bab fall, I think he hurt his knee, and Saliba and Gabrielle already out.

They very easily get the clean sheet. There was one Brentford chance through Kevin Shah to hit the bar.

They had quite a lot of pressure at certain points in the second half, quite a lot of set pieces, a lot of long throws.

So so the crowd gets a bit nervous arsenal weren't really playing that well after after a good start in which mourno scored um but they they never really they were never really allowed to test rye they never really looked like rentford never really looked like scoring and that's probably what's going to to set arsenal apart this season is is just that solidity the other element is um it's mourino scoring again gets the assist against um against Tottenham to open that game up the equalizer against Chelsea and then you know 11 minutes into this one, he's there on the end of a Ben White cross.

Ben White looking very good on his second league start of the season.

It's now a little, I don't know if it's a dilemma for Arteta, but it's an interesting situation up front because they've been calling for a striker for two or three years for him to spend big on a striker.

They get one in Georgia, he's injured, in comes the false nine in Marino, and suddenly they're going, well, they've got to play with a false nine because he's got three assists, three, three goals and four assists the in the last month so it'll be interesting to see how he how he plays that whether whether giokarez is able to actually get ahead of this guy who i think a lot of people he's he's there's nothing particularly interesting about mikhail marino but he's so efficient and he keeps coming up with with big moments for them it'll be an interesting one for him to to to go with but i don't think it's a dilemma because it's just he's got so many options now he can probably use giokarez in in certain points to get them through probably a game like last night if he'd been fit and then Mourinho or a player like Havertz in in the in the difficult away games uh which they've got coming up on

um on on Saturday was Mourinho actually playing as a false nine though or was he just playing as the centre forward yeah I mean

he's not a striker he's yeah he he is they signed him as a midfielder and he's been pushed up there and he's not he's not like he's not running in behind at any point he's not stretching defences but he is really good in the air and he he's got um he's he's got the knack for goals as well.

He's very good when the ball comes into the box, and he is clever.

It wasn't just the goal last night. I should say that obviously he got the assist for Saka for the second goal as well, the threw ball for Saka.

Again, this is one of the things for Arsenal that last season that he wouldn't have been able to...

Last season, they probably would have dropped points in this game because they wouldn't have had the options to withstand some of the injuries that they've got. This season,

they're able to get through that um much easier than than in the past he's you know madoweke started on on the right for saka so is able to manage those minutes before the before the villa game uh ben white came in for uh for for timber who had to come on because of mascara going off but um but the squad is just the squad is just so deep and you know

it's it's pretty nice when you're able to just leave Eze on the bench for for for an hour because you've brought in Odegaard.

This is probably, again, one of the things that's going to set them apart from the others. I guess the only thing, Wilson, is there was a possible injury to Declan Rice.

And okay, look, Mourino dropped into midfield. Yokos went up front and they were fine in this game.

But if there is one player that you sort of think they can't do without, it maybe is Declan Rice, if that is a longer-term injury.

Yeah, I mean, I think he and Gabriel probably are the two you'd say are very hard to replace.

As it turns out, they played perfectly well without Gabriel, and the squad has been deep enough to cover that. Rice, I think, does give them something different.

I mean, in terms of his energy and his engine, as much as anything, Marino can do a lot of the technical things, Rice can, but is he going to have that stamp to keep going?

You know, covering in front of the back four, also occasionally breaking the box, creating a threat. His dead ball delivery is a huge thing as well.

That you know, they will miss that because I think he probably is the best deliver of a dead ball in the Premier League at the moment.

So, I think Arsenal have significantly the deepest and most coherent squad in the Premier League, but Rice is probably the one where

that could hurt them if it is a longer-term injury. Yeah, worth saying that I think David Rayer, to give him credit or to give him his some flowers or whatever the kids say, he uh

he um he I think he got a fingertip to that shard ahead, and it was an absolutely brilliant save. But apart from that, you're right, Brentford didn't create a whole lot.

Anyway, that'll do for part two, part three. We'll begin at Molyneux.

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Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Ted says, when do we start having the conversations about Wolves and 07-08 Derby County?

I can't remember who we were doing about Southampton last year, Barry. Did they celebrate when they got over 11 points? Two points after 14 games.
And

that isn't enough points, Barry. No, I think there is precedent of a team staying up with six points on Boxing Day at Sheffield United.

That might have been when there were 22 teams of the Premier League. So

I can't see this Wolves side doing that, but you never know. I thought Wolves played well against Villa on Sunday, even though they lost, but they were dismal in this game against Forrest.

First half performance was just hopeless. Forrest had a goal ruled out.

Igor Jesus completely unmarked, headed home at a corner, but Dan Indoy was apparently impeding Sam Johnson's view so the goal was ruled out but Igor Jesus went on score the winner with a header Omari Hutchinson cross he's playing well for Forrest at the moment now he's getting more time on the pitch but Will's

Jean Arias who I think has been a very disappointing signing for them He looked really good during the Club World Cup, even though I can't remember who he was playing for, but he was one of the standout players uh he's been massive disappointment for wolves but this was

yeah after a very promising performance at the weekend albeit in defeat this was back to square one i think wilson i mean should they be planning for the championship already and how different is planning for the championship to carrying on playing the premier league games as if you're trying to stay in the premier league I don't know.

What would planning for the championship look like? Yeah, to play more front-foot football because they're probably going to have to try and win more games next season.

I think they just got to,

I mean,

it's short-term targets, isn't it? So the first target is, can we win a game? The second thing is, can we win either in a way or a home game, depending where the first one is?

Then can we get more than 11 points?

This is quite a nice sort of bite-size approach to football. I think it's quite a nice way to do it, you know, very simplified football.

But I think the honest truth is this season, the vast, I think maybe Burnley don't quite fit into this, but 17 or 18 teams are much of a muchness.

Arsenal are much better than everybody else, and Wolves are much worse than everything else. And if you're Wolves, that's quite a bad place to be.

So, I mean, the problem with bringing Rob Edwards now,

if you think back to, I'm sure there's better examples of this, but Jan Sievert at Huddersfield, I admit this is not the most high-profile example.

They bring him in, I think it was 10 games at the end of that season.

Could you just give all the listeners, just give all the listeners just a moment to remember Jan Sievert and Huddersfield being in the Premier League, just to get on board with you, okay, right, here we are.

Did he come in for David Wagner or did he come in? Yeah, I think that's right, yeah.

And the idea was, oh, yeah, he'll have 10 games before the end of the season, and then he'll know the squad ready for the start of next season.

And all that happened was, yeah, they lost the vast majority of those 10 games. Everybody thought, who is this idiot? He can't coach us.
Yeah, confidence is low. Belief in him has disappeared.

And he ends up being sacked pretty quickly the following season. So that's the danger for Rob Edwards.
That even if there has been, in his talk to Wolves,

even if there has been some talk of, yeah, we're not really expecting miracles here, just get your feet under the table, work out what you need in the summer, and then you can lead our promotion charge.

It often doesn't really work like that. I mean, actually, it did used to work like that.

I mean, this cropped up at the weekend that Billy Bonds was manager of West Ham when they were relegated, stayed, took them to promotion the following season.

So it can work, but early 90s maybe it's a different world to now. So,

yeah,

if Rob Edwards's

reason was, as he said, for going to Wolves, that he supports them and he couldn't not try and save them in their hour of need,

then it may be he's taken them over at exactly the wrong time for him to actually have a positive experience there.

It could be argued that Wolves tend to start planning for the championship every summer by selling their best players

to other teams. But I was sort of thinking, you know, would you go, okay, these guys are going to leave next season? So do we need to keep playing X, I don't know,

somebody who's good for Wolves. I can't think of anyone, but, you know, Jiao Gomez, maybe.
The problem then is it makes them much harder to sell.

If it's like, well, this guy couldn't even get in this team to finish the season with three points.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes, yeah, you've got to keep playing them.
Unless they've got some clause where it suddenly triggers some big bonus payment if they play 30 games or something.

But, you know,

I think

try and get some points. I don't think it's more complicated than that at the moment.
Well, that seems pretty complicated for them, to be fair.

Maybe one of their players has a huge bonus if they get one win, and this is what they've been trying to avoid all season.

But maybe there is no difference to try and stay in the Premier League to planning for the championship. I don't know.
Uh, Crystal Palace won one, Nila Burnley. Uh, what does he make of this, Baz?

Not much, really. I'd say it was second last on match of the day.
Their goal came from Daniel Munos,

uh, header across the face, a goal into the bottom corner from a very good Mark Gay cross. Not a huge amount else to talk about.
Jaden Anthony had a couple of chances.

Jakob Bryn Larson smashed a shot off the bar for Burnley. After the game, Scott Parker sort of said, yeah,

we're doing okay.

I'm happy enough with the performance, but we really need to start turning these. performances into points and he's right.
Burnley

are quite bad. They need to start getting some points on the board.
Yeah, should give Dean Henderson some credit. I think he made a bit like Ryas pushing Chardus head onto the bar.

I think he pushed that Bryn Larsen shot onto the bar as well. That was a very good save.
Oh, and Armando Brosia. Burnley slung a ball into the box quite late in the game and

Henderson came for it, missed it. It hit Armando Brogia's back and looked like it was going to go in, but Chris Williams was able to hack it off the line.

He just needs one to go in off his back, doesn't he? Yeah, but he can't even get one to go in off his back. It's one off your backside, though, isn't it?

It is, yes. But, you know, that's close enough.
If it comes off your back, maybe it's not going to go in. Right.
If it comes off your back or your side, it's not good enough.

But if it's off the whole backside, that's what Brozer should have done. Sunday last night went off Van Dijk's backside.
It did go off Van Dijk's backside. Yeah, that's not what he needed, was it?

It's just that. And now he'll hit form.

West Hammer in the bottom three now jacob go to old trafford uh tonight um how are you feeling about all things london stadium that just that just feels like goading like that

it was quite an open question it was quite an open question i think it was all facts you know i wasn't going like no no no no no i was like i'm not i'm not surprised that's where you are but how are you feeling i'm not surprised either i think they're surprised that leeds probably it's a surprise that leads one and put them there because people were expecting chelsea to do west ham a favor but that did did not happen.

They were really poor and disappointing against Liverpool on Sunday, didn't do any of the things that you need to do to beat or trouble this Liverpool team.

And obviously, tonight they're without Bequeta after that red card against Liverpool. So the attacking options are even more diminished.

Somerville's out and has been out for a lot of his time since joining West Ham. So, once again, not for the first time,

most of the onus is on Jared Bowen to do something for them.

It's been okay under Nuno at certain points.

You know, the Newcastle game was a very good performance, but they beat Burnley without actually really playing that well.

And the, you know, the attacking options are so limited that they're kind of having to just steal goals from any means, really. And if that doesn't happen, then

it's putting a lot of pressure on a really poor defence. He brought in Mavra Panos for Kilman against

Liverpool. Kilman has really not been playing well, 40 million very badly spent, but Mavro Panos is

20 million very badly spent, was at fault for that goal the other day. Maybe they can bring in Igor Igor Julio, who who's okay.

They've got some real problems and they need to try and fix it somehow in January. Uh, other otherwise, they're in real danger.
They'll probably beat Maynight now that you've, you know, goaded me.

Apologies for the goading, but it's nice to see so many Igors. Is that three Igors in the Premier League?

There was a time when I was a child, well, Igor was just a monster in a Scooby-Doo, you know, cartoon. Now they are representing the Premier League.

Barry, which of the Premier League fixtures takes your eye? Yes, several of them catch my eye, Max.

Do you want to give me any more info? All ten of them. I've seen them.
They caught my eye.

I'm personally looking forward to Manchester City's game against Sunderland. I guess Arsenal Villa at Villa Park is a big one.
Can Arsenal halt the juggernaut that is Aston Villa? And

they're...

Probably the two most interesting for me anyway. It'd be interesting to see if Keith Andrews does one over Thomas Frank as Brentford goes Spurs as well as the, I think.

Well, the Brentford Spurs one is actually interesting because Brentford are terrible away from home and Spurs are terrible at home. So something has to give.

Yes, although Fulham were terrible away from home until last Saturday. So

we can all see the direction that that is

travelling in.

Anything you has pointed out to you, Wilson? Are you off anywhere? I'm up to Leeds for Leeds Liverpool for the 5.30 kickoff on Saturday. Which

I think

is interesting for a number of reasons.

I mean, Liverpool's ongoing struggles, lead suddenly playing two up front, which I think in this sort of retro 80 season that we're having, the teams going to two up front seems logical.

So quite keen to see how that works. And I haven't been to Ellen Road for years.
I can't even remember the last time I was there. So very much looking forward to that.

I mean, given how shaky Virgil and Ibrahima Canate are and the number that

the two lead strikers did on their Chelsea defence. Yeah, that's a good point.
I think they could pause Liverpool some serious problems.

Finally, Dominic says, I think Barney was confused about the location of Selhurst Park. Crystal Palace Station is about 45 minutes' walk.

Selhurst, Thornton Heath, and Norwood Junction, all within about 10 minutes. Jacob, you're nodding.
Yeah. Did Barney go to Crystal Palace Station?

Well, not only did he go there, but he was recommending everybody go there as the way to get to Selhurst Park. And, you know, we just listened because, you know, Barney sounds so clever.

You just have to agree with what he was telling you. So

he's changed the commuting habits of all of south london when i go there i i um i go to east croydon and just walk from east croydon which is is probably about a 40 minute walk but it's actually quite a pleasant walk and it means the train's not as busy and you get your steps in and you can you can listen to to a podcast if you want do you listen to football podcasts wilson yeah because i want to i mean sometimes listen to myself because I regard myself as being the most sensible voice on the game.

But it's also useful to learn from your own, see how you can improve. But no, of course I listen to other people.

I want people to tell me what to think. I don't have ideas myself anymore.
I'm 49. I got the impression that you were listening to sort of slightly sordid, saucy podcasts, Wilson.
And

I didn't have you down for that. Anyway, thanks to everyone that listens to this one.
We've been sent lots of Spotify wrapped roundups.

Current high scorer, Jamie Darcy, who's listened to us for 10,500 minutes this year, which seems a lot. But if you can beat it, do let us know.

You can see us on YouTube as well if you'd like to see our faces. But that'll do for today.
Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Jacob.
Thank you. Thanks, Wilson.
I'd never done one of these.

I never had a Spotify Plus membership till this year.

You know, it tells you your music age.

Do you want to have a guess what my music age is? And I

can have a

clue

is that the only thing I've listened to is the playlist was at my wedding. So if you can remember that, Barry, you've got a chance of guessing this.
I can't remember the playlist at your wedding.

Can't remember who was DJing, DJing, but I know it was a friend of yours. Yeah, the Peter Frankopan, the historian.

Okay. But he claims to have DJ for Bonno, so...
Why wouldn't you get Simon Sharma? Who's your favourite historian DJ? Anyway,

what is your musical age, according to Spotify Wilson? 57. 76.

Just listen to Vera Lynn on loop. Play it again, Vera.
Anyway, that'll do for today. We'll be back.
Sorry, just one more quick thing, Max.

I forgot to mention yesterday when we were talking about the Football Supporters Association awards that A Guardian Women's Football Weekly also won. Well done to them.

And I got to meet Lucy Ward in real life. Have you never met her before? I never met Lucy Ward in real life before.

And

that led to a personal life highlight, which was I got to meet Neil Redfern. Oh,

huge,

yeah,

he's a lovely man. Never meet your heroes, but you know, you know, good for you meeting Neil.
Lovely man, very strong handshake. As you know, of course, yeah, a good Barnsley handshake.

Anyway, that will do. Thanks, everyone.
If you're still, and no one is still listening by now, but you know, if you've ever met Neil Redfern and shaken his hand, let us know.

Football Weekly is produced by Joel Grove. Our executive producer is Phil Maynard.
Back on Monday.

This is The Guardian.

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