Poland says Russian drones shot down over its territory

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This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service.

I'm Jonat Jalil and at 13 hours GMT on Wednesday the 10th of September, these are our main stories.

Poland says it shot down Russian drones that violated its airspace during an attack on Ukraine.

Israeli media say top defense officials are increasingly unsure whether the strike on the Qatari capital Doha succeeded in killing Hamas leaders.

The UN says more children around the world are now obese than underweight.

Also in this podcast.

Backlash in Australia after videos of an American influencer wrestling crocodiles go viral.

For the first time since Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Poland has shot down Russian drones that entered its airspace during Moscow's latest attack on Ukraine.

Poland's Prime Minister, Donald Tusk, said 19 Russian drones violated Polish airspace and those which posed a threat, up to four of them, were shot down by Polish and NATO pilots.

We are most likely dealing with a large-scale provocation, but at the same time, we are in consultation with our allies.

I'm in constant contact with the NATO Secretary General.

This is so that in the next few hours, days and beyond, we can respond to this type of threat as effectively as we did tonight.

This is the first time Russian drones have been shot down over the territory of a NATO country, and therefore all our allies are taking the situation very seriously.

Mr.

Tusk said that a line had been crossed and that Poland was closer to open conflict than at any time since the Second World War.

In a statement, Russia's military said that it had carried out a mass strike on targets in western Ukraine and that there had been no plans to target facilities on Poland's territory.

The NATO Secretary General, Mark Russell, had this warning for Russia, even as a transatlantic alliance tries to establish whether the attack on Poland was intentional.

A full assessment is ongoing, but of course, whether it was intentionally or not, it is absolutely reckless.

And to Putin, I mean, my message is clear.

Stop the war in Ukraine, stop violating Allied airspace, and know that we stand ready.

I asked our Eastern Europe correspondent, Sarah Rainsford, who's based in Poland but is currently in Kyiv, how significant this all is.

I think it is very significant.

It's the the first time that Poland, or indeed any NATO country, has done anything like this, shooting down Russian drones over NATO airspace.

So, this is a big deal.

It happened, I should put it in context, during a massive Russian aerial attack on Ukraine.

So, there were, we now know, more than 400 drones launched by Russia against Ukraine and more than 40 missiles.

We are being told by Ukrainian officials that some eight of those drones were deliberately directed into Poland, crossing the border, into Poland.

We know from information on the ground in Poland that at least a couple of sites have been identified where those drones reach, one of them 40 kilometres from the border, one of them about 15 kilometres, and it's suspected that some reached even deeper.

Certainly the authorities in Poland closed the airspace as far west as Warsaw for security.

They're talking about what happened as an unprecedented violation of Polish airspace, and they're saying the Air Force is saying it was an act of aggression and that there was a real threat to the safety of Polish civilians.

So I think this is very significant and I think Poland is now trying to calibrate its response.

Because I think at the beginning of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine there was an incident where it was thought that perhaps Russia was firing a missile into Poland but it didn't seem to be a deliberate escalation by Moscow but this feels more deliberate doesn't it?

Yeah there have been a few incidents in the past.

Certainly drones have strayed across the border during Russian attacks on Ukraine.

Don't forget Ukraine and Poland, the next-door neighbours.

There was also one case when two Polish people in a village were killed in a field when a missile hit there.

Now there was panic frankly at the time but it later was said that this was a Ukrainian air defense missile that was intercepting a Russian missile.

So the suggestion was that that was accidental.

There was another occasion when a Russian missile was found by a man on a horse in the middle of a Polish forest in eastern Poland.

But none of those occasions led to Poland essentially retaliating.

And I think that's what's different here.

I think that Poland felt there was a threat and that that threat needed to be taken out to be eliminated.

And certainly here in Ukraine, from the President down, officials are suggesting that this is Russia really pushing the West to see how it responds.

And at the same time, its aerial attacks on Ukraine are becoming bigger and more frequent, despite that that much touted Alaska summit between President Putin and Donald Trump.

Yeah, I think there's a direct link.

I mean it was after that attempt by Donald Trump to broker some kind of peace that the Russian attacks here in the air, so the missile and drone attacks on Ukraine across this country really have escalated.

And I think those things are part of the important context to what's happened in Poland.

I think you know there are many factors which lead people to suggest that this is part of an escalation because of course don't forget Russia believes quite clearly that it's at war not just with Ukraine but what it calls the collective West and that means all of Ukraine's allies.

Sarah Rainsford in Kyiv.

Reports in the Israeli media say that top defence officials are increasingly doubtful that Hamas leaders were killed in the strike targeting them in the Qatari capital Doha on Tuesday.

Hamas itself has said that lower level members were killed but not the leadership.

It's offered no proof of this so far.

Amid widespread international condemnation of the attack, Qatari officials have said that the government has instructed a legal team to look into holding the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responsible for breaking international law.

For the families of hostages still being held in Gaza, the attack has further increased their anguish.

Aynaf Zangawa is the mother of the Israeli hostage Matan Zangawa.

I am shaking with fear.

It could be that at this very moment, the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, basically assassinated Maimata, sealed his fate.

Anyone who decides to deliberately endanger Maimatan's life is murdering him.

Why does the Prime Minister insist on blowing up every chance for a deal?

Why?

Mustafa Barghouti is a leading Palestinian politician.

He gave his view of the attack in Qatar and where it now leaves ceasefire efforts.

This airstrike represents nothing less than an act of state terror and an effort to undermine the ongoing negotiations trying to reach ceasefire and the release of prisoners.

This act shows that this Israeli government is absolutely responsible.

Not only did they bombard the negotiating team while it was discussing the American proposal for a ceasefire, They also bombarded a country which has been the instrumental mediator in all the previous agreements and in the existing negotiations, a sovereign country, Qatar.

By the way, without Qatar, Israel would not have seen most of its released prisoners.

Israel knows very well that America, the United States of America, was the one that asked Qatar to host what you call the leaders of Hamas.

And anyhow, they were not hosting them.

These people came to Qatar to negotiate with the Prime Minister of Qatar the new agreement.

And while they were meeting to negotiate the possibility of a ceasefire, they were bombarded.

In my reality, in my opinion, this is showing that Israel is not interested in peace, is not interested in any ceasefire, and is determined to continue its genocide in Gaza, the genocide that killed already 65,000 Palestinians, including 20,000 children.

In my opinion, this government is behaving as a fascist government.

On the point of negotiations, is that the end of negotiations then?

Do you think?

Is there any prospect of them being revived?

As long as this Israeli government is allowed to do what it does, there will be no successful negotiations.

There has to be pressure from outside on Israel, for at least for the sake of the Israeli prisoners that Netanyahu is going to kill, as their families say.

What we need is our sanctions on Israel to force it, to stop this violation of every international law and this violation of human rights in the occupied Palestinian territories.

Palestinian politician Mustafa Barghuti speaking to James Cocknell.

So, will the attack on Hamas leaders in Doha be viewed as a success or failure by the Israeli military?

Our correspondent in Jerusalem is Wira Davis.

It's a little bit too early to say, although there is speculation in Israeli media circles, including Army Radio, which tends to be quite close to the military, that is concerned that they may not have assassinated all of the top leaders of Hamas that they had targeted.

This was in some ways a one-off operation for Israel.

It would have known for quite some time that these leaders were going to meet in Doha and Israel had a chance, an audacious chance, to attack them from the air with all of the problems that involves.

But if Israel has failed to assassinate this senior Hamas leadership, it won't get a second chance, at least not in Qatar, because Donald Trump has made that promise to the Qataris that this will not happen again on Qatari soil.

And if that senior Hamas leadership is still in place, then it doesn't destroy the movement altogether.

What Israel would have hoped for would have to have decapitated every senior figure in Hamas and left what is left of Hamas in Gaza as rudderless and leaderless.

And that's why Netanyahu made an appeal last night to the people of Gaza to somehow rise up against Hamas.

Well, if Hamas's leadership is now still in place, albeit wounded, injured, it does suggest that the Israelis may have failed in this attempt and they may not get a second chance.

And we heard from the mother of a hostage being held in Gaza.

What's the wider reaction in Israel to what many people around the world are calling a reckless action by the Israeli government?

On the political level, most politicians across the board will defend Israel's right to go after its enemies abroad, particularly those involved in the October the 7th attacks.

Even in a friendly state like Qatar.

This is the point.

This wasn't an attack in Yemen, it wasn't an attack in Lebanon, it wasn't an attack in Iran.

But Israel has done this kind of thing before.

It has gone after enemies in Dubai, it's gone after enemies in Europe, it's gone after enemies all over the world in a much more clandestine way.

So politically, politicians will defend Israel's rights to do this.

The problem is the implications specifically for the hostages still being held in Gaza are really ominous.

About 20 hostages are still thought to be alive.

They were meant to be part of this so-called peace plan being discussed by the Hamas leaders as they sat down in Qatar.

The prospects now for them are much less secure.

If Israel is also now going to go into Gaza City with a much more enhanced ground offensive, not only does that put the hostages at risk, it puts tens of thousands of the lives of Gazan civilians at risk as well.

You've got to remember that earlier in the day, Benjamin Netanyahu had issued an evacuation order for about a million, in effect,

people who live in Gaza City because of what was expected to be a much more enhanced Israeli ground offensive.

If there is no ceasefire deal now, then this much more enhanced Israeli military operation in Gaza looks inevitable.

Mira Davis in Jerusalem.

In Nepal, armed soldiers have been patrolling the streets of Kathmandu as they try to restore order after a wave of protests which have led to around 25 people being killed in the past three days.

Most of the deaths were on Monday when anti-corruption protesters clashed with security forces.

The Gen Z demonstrations, as they've been called, were triggered by a ban on many social media sites, which had been showing how the children of Nepalese politicians lived lives of luxury.

That ban has now been reversed.

Outrage over the high number of deaths forced the Prime Minister KP Shama Oli to resign on Tuesday, and now thousands of prisoners are reported to have escaped from jails.

Panendra Dahal in Kathmandu described the situation there now.

A curfew is in place nationwide, and the security personnel are urging people to stay indoors.

Only emergency vehicles are moving in the streets.

Only few people we can see walking on the streets.

It appears calm, and there are no protests reported.

The signs of yesterday's unprecedented violence still is visible on the streets.

We can see burned vehicles, torched buildings, smoke coming from rooftops of hotels and department stores, and vandalized police posts.

The Nepal police spokesperson has today confirmed the death of two police personnel in yesterday's violence.

Some police are said to be missing.

The authorities have ordered the police to return back to their bases in Kathmandu so that they they can provide updated information of the casualty and situation.

And what more can you tell us about the reports that thousands of prisoners have escaped from jail?

The prisoners started protesting within jail premises and tried jailbreak.

Officials have confirmed that more than 4,000 have absconded.

The situation in several prisons was out of control.

In one of the prison in Kathmandu, the army had to be mobilized to shift prisoners who were trying to abscond

and were trying to create a problem there.

In one of the correction facilities in western Nepal, in Banket district, in a correction facility for juvenile prisoners, they also tried to escape and police opened fire.

The head of that correction facility has told us that five juvenile prisoners were shot dead.

So it seems that tensions are still very high and that the authorities are having to introduce all these security measures to stop more protests breaking out.

Yeah, the Nepal Army has appealed to demonstrators not to come out.

It has urged everyone to show restraint and authorities are deploying police personnel back on the field to ensure law and order.

And I spoke with the director of the Department of Prison, Chomin Ra Neopane.

He said security personnel are searching those absconding prisoners in various places.

That was Panindra Dahal in Nepal.

Still to come on the podcast.

So I was among 600 children who have been first deported to the Russian camp.

We hear about Ukrainian children abducted by Russians.

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For the first time, there are more obese children in the world than underweight ones.

That's according to a new report by the UN children's agency, UNICEF.

Some of the causes are well known: sugary foods and drinks, unhealthy snacks, fast foods, ultra-processed meals, all convenient, all highly addictive, and all heavily advertised.

The report's lead writer, Harriet Torles, spoke to Priya Rye.

We're finding that for the first time in history, the number of children living with obesity now exceeds underweight.

And that's the same across all regions of the world, with the exception of sub-Saharan Africa and Asia.

But even in those regions, they're on the trend line, heading in the same direction.

In fact, we're finding that low and middle-income countries experiencing the fastest rise in overweight and obesity.

And already more than 80% of children who are affected are living in those countries.

And why do you think that is?

They're

heavily stacked with unhealthy foods and beverages, especially those that are ultra-processed.

They're the easiest to find, they're heavily marketed, they're highly appealing.

As countries develop from low-income to middle-income, these products become more and more affordable, which is truly alarming.

The industry sees an opportunity and so they're more aggressively marketed.

All of this also comes with a change in the traditional perception or understanding of what it means to be malnourished.

Can you explain that?

Well, for us, malnutrition means bad nutrition.

So it covers all forms of malnutrition.

Now, undernutrition is still a massive concern, and especially under fives, where we see a huge unfinished agenda, and many children really suffering from conditions such as stunting and wasting.

But as these children grow up and they become exposed to environments that are flooded with unhealthy foods and drinks, that's when the problem of overweight and obesity really emerges.

And in fact, there is evidence that shows when children are undernourished in early life, they carry an even greater risk of becoming overweight when they're exposed to those environments and of the health consequences.

And not only that, these unhealthy food environments increase the risk of all forms of malnutrition.

And that's because these unhealthy foods, such as fizzy drinks and salty snacks, they're not only just high in salt and sugar and additives, but they're low in essential vitamins and minerals that these children really need to grow and develop to their potential.

And they displace more nutritious foods from their diets, you know, vegetables and fruits and legumes, all those nutritious foods they need.

Harriet Torles from from UNICEF.

Well, one of the worst affected countries is South Africa, where more than a fifth of infants are now overweight or obese.

Mayani Jones went to meet some of those trying to combat the country's obesity epidemic.

I'm at the Cairo School of Inquiry in northern Johannesburg.

This school has implemented a food policy.

They say it's focused on promoting healthy eating habits.

They say that all the food they serve here is vegetarian and that they want their students to think about what they put in their bodies.

Today on the menu it's kicheri which is a mix of doll and rice with tomato chutney, halloumi and some sauce.

We can have the maximum lounge.

The parents of the students here have been asked only to bring fruit, vegetables and homemade food for their kids to eat.

Mark Loon is the head teacher.

If all schools were to emulate our intention of being conscious of health and what children are putting into their bodies and what food is being sold to children like chocolates and sweets and sugary, fuzzy drinks.

The health to the children would be served.

According to the UN, rates of overweight and obese teenagers around the world have nearly tripled in the last two decades.

Number of overweight children aged five to nine has gone from 69 to 147 million.

Healthy eating advocate Siposeto Nase noticed that healthy options were too expensive for students on government bursaries.

The portion sizes are too big and they are making us to overeat, basically.

Hey, how are you?

Good thanks, how are you?

He now visits schools and communities to teach them about healthy eating and lobbies policymakers to introduce clearer labeling on packaging.

Poor and middle-income countries have seen the greatest surge in overweight and obese children.

But whereas in poorer countries, overweight kids tend to be from wealthier families who can pay for high-calorie foods, In middle-income economies like here in South Africa, more people can afford to go to fast food restaurants and there's been an explosion in the number of them.

My name is Gilbert Chetaouzi.

I work for UNICEF South Africa as the nutrition manager.

When you go to households, households don't have means to access healthier options.

It means that they do not have money.

We know that the high unemployment rate in this country does contribute.

South Africa introduced higher taxes on sugary drinks in 2018, but it hasn't stopped the growing obesity rate in children here.

22% of kids under five are overweight or obese, up from 13% in 2016.

The UN says countries need to improve access to local, nutritious food for children and teenagers.

In the meantime, it's left to individuals and institutions to try and improve the health of future generations.

Mayonna Jones reporting from South Africa.

Now let's turn to the issue of children deported to Russia from Ukraine, just another tragic outcome of the ongoing war.

The children taken are frequently put up for adoption in Russia, with families back home unable to find any trace of them.

To date, Ukraine says more than 19,500 children have been forcibly transferred or deported by the Russian authorities to Russia or the occupied territories of Ukraine.

The deportations are now the subject of a new documentary film, Children of the Fire, which was screened last night in London.

In a moment we'll hear from one charity which is helping to bring some of them back.

But But first let's hear the voices of two of the children who've been rescued.

Vadislav is now 18 but was 16 when he was detained.

These soldiers took my documents and he started to check my phones and he suddenly find

a group that worship about Russia, about war and how they don't want to take part in war anymore.

He puts on me guns and asks me question

would I kill you right now or smash your phones.

After like two or three hours they decided to take me to this prison.

Another abducted child Valeria is now 17.

So I was among 600 children who have been first deported to Crimea

to Jeopatoria to the Russian camp.

So we have been escorted all the way to this camp by the Russians' military forces.

We have been all locked and we realized that we could not leave it.

Our passports, all our ID documents have been

taken by Russians.

The ML Foundation is a charity which helps to reunite children with their families, which was featured in the documentary.

Mariam Lambert, the co-founder and CEO of the organization, spoke to Priyarai about the cases that she deals with.

The problem is most of the story that we are working on and cases of the children, they are even worse because some of the children have been actually not only deported, but they were not as lucky as the children that you just heard, because those children are still held

in Russia or occupied territory, either in a prison detention centre or in a Russian family forcibly adopted or in Russia territory in institutions.

So that's the the cases that we are talking about.

And do we know how much the Russian families who may adopt these children, do we know how much they know about where the children have come from?

We don't know, but what we know is that Russians, when they are deporting children,

the real issue, and it's a violation of the Geneva Convention, is that they are changing their names, changing the date of birth, sometimes getting a Russian passport, which you can understand that by doing that it's very difficult to have figures on how many Ukrainian children were adopted by the Russian families.

So I doubt that at this point some of them might be aware, but others might not be even aware that those children are even Ukrainian.

And what can we say about Russia's motivation

to be doing this?

You know, we often hear about its territorial wants or demands.

Why this?

Territorial worry is really minor.

The main reason they're doing that, they also mention that publicly without any shame, is that they are claiming in the propaganda that Ukrainians are Nazi and they need to eradicate.

So they want to eradicate Ukrainian identities, culture.

This is why they are taking children in order to militarize them, to erase their identity, and also to forcibly adopt them because they want to raise the Russian population.

Do you know whether there's a response from Russia to these allegations that it is deporting or forcibly taking children like

It's a mixed statement from them.

They recognize that some children, as they said, were saved by the war.

This is why they transferred them.

If they were really saving those children, they would have contacted the families of those children.

They would have given information to the Ukrainian authorities.

They would have given access to UNICEF or the Red Cross.

And most importantly, according to the Geneva Convention, they would have transferred those children immediately into a third country for safety.

And over three years, I have done none of these.

So they are claiming that some children were reunited, but other children are just orphans.

But even a child, as an orphan, belonged to the Ukrainian authorities.

So they are very much denying most of the cases, which is in line with the war crime that they are doing because they will not admit that.

But we are, of course, documenting all that.

Mariam Lambert from the Emil Foundation.

He's known online as a a real Tarzan.

Saltwater crocodile, big croc.

Well, technically it's small, but they get much bigger than this.

A strong animal.

This is juvenile.

This thing can get seven meters easily.

A beast of an animal.

There's much bigger ones in here, so I'm gonna let this guy go.

There's big crocs in here, so we've got to get out here pretty fast because they're getting ugly pretty quick.

Now there are calls for the American social media influencer, real name Mike Holston, to be deported from Australia after footage of him chasing and wrestling two crocodiles went viral.

Simon Atkinson is in far north Queensland close to where the videos were filmed and told me more about them.

Two videos as you say have been posted on his account.

I mean if you look at Mike Holston the Real Tarzan's Instagram he has 15 million followers and most of them are him with various exotic animals, lots of them with his shirt off it should also be said and he really has you know got this huge following and these two show him one approaching a freshwater crocodile they're the the sort of the smaller less deadly of the two varieties of croc here in Australia and jumping out of a boat wading through the water and kind of wrestling it until he's he's got it in his grip and he gets a nasty cut on his arm for his trouble and the other one a saltwater crocodile a juvenile that's that's the clip that we just heard and as I was saying the video has gone viral but there's also been a backlash including from the father of the late conservationist Steve Irwin that's right I mean we had lots from from animal rights groups who've said that the behaviour is very cruel, they've been caused for him to be deported.

As you said, the leader of the state here in Queensland has called them a goose.

But Bob Irwin, the father of Steve Irwin, when he's used adjectives which far worse than goose, he thinks is disgusting behaviour.

I think partly because Mike Holston has been compared to Steve Irwin, you know, somebody who was very kind of physical with animals and portrayed themselves as somebody who was an educator.

But he was clear that, look, this is completely different to what Steve Irwin was about.

He said this is somebody illegally interfering with protected animals.

And he's very angry, I think, that his son's legacy is kind of getting tied up with this.

And this isn't the first case of visitors to Australia getting into this kind of trouble.

No, earlier this year, another American over in Australia posted a video of themselves picking a baby wombat from the side of the road and taking it from its mother.

It caused real outrage, there's a real pressure for her to be deported from the country.

She left of her own volition, but we saw the Prime Minister getting involved.

In fact, I think when she did leave Australia, they said it was a great day for one bat.

So, yes, it's not something that goes down particularly well here in Australia when people are seen to be being very inappropriate in the way that they deal with the animals.

Simon Atkinson.

And that's all from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News podcast later.

If you want to comment on this podcast, you can send us an email.

The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk.

This edition was mixed by Paul Mason.

The producers were Marion Strawn and Muzaffar Shakir.

The editor is Karen Martin.

I'm Janet Jalil.

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