Our Guest, Gavin

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Visit Washington.org to plan your trip.

This is episode 58, and we're back for another season.

Season premiere.

Season premiere.

Pew pew pew.

And

we're here.

We're doing a special edition of Anima.

It's something that's been a long time coming.

That sounded so awkward, but it wasn't.

What was happening in the background was Eric was passing a mic, and we were watching expectantly, and then the person that received the mic kept his dumb mouth shut.

Yeah.

Where is your show?

What do you want from me?

I don't know.

An introduction.

Good morning, your show.

Good morning, Gavin.

Hello.

You don't know about this, Gav, but we have been planning this episode of Anma for four months.

Maybe longer.

Maybe longer.

We were scheduled to come, and the last time we were scheduled to come here, and it was all ready to go, and then Gus somehow got COVID, I believe.

Yep.

From someone who's sitting right next to me recording the episode of Anma.

I mean, it's possible he got it from me.

I've also had COVID in the past, but it's possible he got it from anybody on Earth.

But it is possible I could get it from anyone on Earth.

It is 100% truth.

I got it from the person sitting to my left, though.

The person who gave it to me was also spent a fair few months trying to deny that there was clearly that.

No, I 100% gave it to him.

There is no doubt about it.

But yeah, so we were supposed to come back then.

I think we even teased it on that episode of Admiral.

We're going to have a special thing next week, and then we got COVID.

And it's like Sunday night, we had to cancel it last episode.

So your plan was to come here and have dog shit espresso made by me?

Yeah.

We, yeah, we, we, we have uh, espresso made by Gavin here today, and I gotta say, you know, 58 episodes of Anma, this has been the uh, the slowest, the longest amount of time it's taken us to get a coffee.

You really need to work on it.

Well, I had to get everything warm, you know.

A lot of the time when shops open, they expect their customers to come in.

So, we just kind of rang the doorbell and showed up this morning.

Gavin had no idea we were going to be here.

I just looked at Mega.

I was like, What is this?

That was what we were going for.

We wanted surprise and our delight.

We got out of the car and I turned to Eric and I was like, should we start recording now?

Should we just be doing the episode as we walk up?

With a ding-dong?

Yeah, just get the whole thing

on audio.

We decided against that.

We decided just to wait until we decided to wait 45 minutes for our espresso.

Gavin, you are, I think, officially the fourth guest we've had in 58 episodes of this podcast.

You follow in the footsteps of Frank, Becca, and Jason.

Becca's really getting around.

Do you want to reframe that?

No, I'm good with it.

She did this one first.

I didn't know she did the crisps thing with your girl.

It wasn't planned.

She just walked by and we saw her and we ushered her in.

And it turned out great.

Everybody loved it.

And hopefully, she had a good time, too.

So, this might be my longest gap between podcasts with Gus in

11 11 years?

Maybe.

I don't know if I've seen you since like

April or May.

We text every now and then Gavin like sending me plane videos.

There's a dude who bought a 747 and is like taking it apart and selling like individual little pieces and he makes videos as he's like exploring the plane.

Gavin loves those.

He sends them to me.

I mean, can you buy them for scrap?

Is that something that yeah?

I guess it's what he did.

He bought like a non-functional 747 and just like exploring all of of the compartments and the stuff.

I think it's super interesting.

The last video you sent me, though, was pretty gross because

he's like showing the crew cabin and like taking out, taking apart like the place where the crew sleeps during long flights.

And he like picks up a vent and like under it is just like 40 years of dust that's never been cleaned.

That's just been sitting there.

It's like a perfect shadow of that vent.

It was really gross.

I feel like I'm always fascinated by like disgusting dirt videos when people like uncover nasty shit.

but everyone always puts their hands in it and that's what it's too far for me he's always like fingering at us it's like well it was interesting before you made it really gross that's that's like the i feel like that's the appeal if you ever watch uh kitchen uh kitchen nightmares it's like watching gordon ramsey find something disgusting and then stick his hand in it and smell it and then like watching him gag it's like oh yeah this is that's what i'm here for the rest i turned the show off after that like once they start cleaning like okay i don't care anymore after he cleans the rancid chicken out of the out of the walk-in it's over for for you.

Yeah, that's okay.

I'm done.

The show's over in 10 minutes.

Nobody wants to see your new carpet.

They filmed an episode of Kitchen Nightmares in Austin once.

Did they?

Yeah,

it was a Greek restaurant.

It's not there anymore.

They've since closed.

It's behind where Via 313 North Campus is.

You know, there's like

a bar or like a burrito placement.

It's something that looked Greek on the outside.

Yeah.

It looked real techie, dog shit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was here.

It was right behind that Via 313.

And I remember he came and did the local morning show, like the Fox morning show, to promote, you know, the Kitchen Nightmares episode that they filmed in Austin.

And I remember they were interviewing him about Kitchen Nightmares, and Gordon Ramsey wanted to talk about anything except for Kitchen Nightmares.

Like they could not show.

He just kept talking about Uchi the entire time.

Like they could not get him to talk about the show or anything.

He's like, have you been to Uchi?

Man, the sushi there is great.

Really funny.

Just him derailing the entire segment to promote his own show.

Is it true that most of the restaurants that he helps just fall apart almost immediately?

Yeah.

Well, they're beyond saving at that point.

They're just like, yeah.

It's a Hail Mary, and I don't think it almost never works.

Yeah.

I think it does.

Yeah, sometimes, but it's.

It's also like, if you look into it,

the other big show he does, not Master Chef, but

Hell's Kitchen.

Like, you know, the...

Every season, the winner is vying for an opportunity to go be the head chef at a Gordon Ramsey restaurant somewhere around the world.

I think as of like, they're far much further now.

I could watch it around like season 10, but I think as of like season 10, only one or two people ever filled those positions.

Like it almost never works out visa-wise

or they like offer them a payout and they take that instead, but it almost never actually resulted in anybody being a chef at a people.

Pick the money over the job.

Sometimes that take it's just offered to them, or sometimes just like nothing happens.

Like it just does, it's just like the person's going like, yeah, I don't know.

I don't know whatever happened.

I was supposed to be the head chef in tahoe and i just never heard from anybody i ate at the gordon ramsey restaurant in vegas and one of the health kitchen winners was the chef there like they make it a point it's like that's cool out front it's like on the menu like you know and you can see the the person like walking around and like oh that there there that person is uh that's one of the worst cases of food poisoning i've ever had in my life

And I think it was the squid ink risotto because I remember I've never had squid ink risotto, but I tried it there because I was like, it's the Gordon Ramsey restaurant.

There's the health kitchen person.

And I remember eating it and thinking, I've never had Squiddy Chrisotto, but this doesn't taste right.

And I was there for a conference for work.

Oh, no.

And I spent the entire next day running to the bathroom, like non-stop between like conferences.

RT conferences?

Yeah.

Okay.

I watched you run out of a panel once to throw up, I think.

Yep.

That was in Dallas.

Acon 2006.

Yep.

I was, uh, I got very sick, had to run out, threw up, then just immediately came back and got right back.

Were you hung over?

No, I think I'd eaten something bad again.

I have a very sensitive stomach.

It's very easy for me to

be food poisoned.

I'm the same way now.

I think also Millie took her first steps at that.

Oh, yeah.

I think you're right.

Now she's 18, so that's messy.

How old were you when we met, Gavin?

Because we met back in 04, was it?

Yeah, you came to England.

We did that event in London.

Yeah, so I would have been 16.

A wee little Gav.

I remember we met at that.

So I was there with Jason and Joel for that event.

And we met you at that bar that was like right on the bank of the Thames.

You couldn't drink.

You were there with your other friend.

But it's like me and Jason drinking and you just like sitting there.

We were just like hanging out.

Yeah, it was pretty surreal.

And

I think it's all because I was one of the only people that Jason knew of in England.

So he just DM'd me on the site and said, oh, it's Jason who contacted me.

I never knew Hoy you were there.

He was a, he said, hey, I'm all up by Big Ben and shit.

Because weren't you staying like in Westminster?

Yeah, like I had no idea.

It was my first time.

It was my first time in London.

And

at the time, the exchange rate was dog shit.

So it was like $2 to one pound.

That was such a great time to come here.

And I was like, man, I just got to book like a cheap place for us to stay.

And I like, I wanted to book a room all three of us could stay in.

I was like, I just need someplace cheap.

So I went to like the Marriott website.

And I was like, where's a Marriott that's close to the event we're doing?

and I found one and I was like this Marriott's like $600 a night what the hell I was like all right but it's convenient it's a Marriott no one's gonna get mad at me for like saying I picked some fancy hotel right I bet Bernie will but then we get in the taxi and he drives us to Westminster and the the fucking Marriott is like a castle at the base of the London Eye right across the Thames from Big Bend and I was like oh we are in the like if you ever watch a movie and they do an establishing shot of London the hotel we stayed at is in that establishing shot I was like oh somehow, just like randomly picking a Marriott, I picked a fucking castle in the middle of London.

Yeah, it's probably amazing you didn't see like a James Bond being filmed.

So, and then so we ended up meeting right at a bar, like right at that hotel.

Should we cover that, Gav?

How is it?

Because you are all of our oldest friend at this point.

How is it that we know you?

How did you meet us?

How did you discover?

How did we discover you?

So that guy that you met, Gus, with me,

his name is was Fairy.

I was in a German lesson where the teacher didn't show up, and the replacement teacher just put us all in alphabetical order.

His name was Fairy.

My name was Free.

He was like the only loser in that class.

So he nerd shit like me.

And he introduced me to Red versus Blue.

And then I just,

I think it was like around the time where a lot of my friends were getting into booze and drugs.

And I just...

wasn't into it as much.

You chose the nerd life?

Yeah, so I just made a pivot to the nerd life.

And

yeah, it was weird.

Instead of like pivoting friend groups, I just pivoted to an all-online experience.

So I was just very active on the forums.

And around the time that I met you in London was right around the time the new site happened where we switched from the old forums.

PHPBB to.

Yeah,

we had that movable type template with PHPBB and then we switched to the social site.

Yeah, and I don't really know why

I was like a standout on the forums.

I don't think I really was at the beginning.

I remember you.

But why, though?

Because you sent me such a bullshit email.

We

started this area.

Out of all...

So

when

Rushi started, when Red vs.

Blue started, you know, I was living in Puerto Rico, so I couldn't help with the production of the episode.

So I tried to help by like helping to maintain the website, and I would answer all of the email that was sent in.

I'd take care of like processing PayPal transactions, getting people access to the forums.

And I was basically, I was customer service.

And I remember I was sitting at my desk at my computer in Puerto Rico, and I was like plowing through all of the emails we get.

And I got an email from some kid who was like, Hey, can I get a free sponsorship and free access to the premium stuff on the website?

My parents were just in a car crash and died.

And

I said, I'm having a really hard time.

I think I just replied, ha ha, fuck off, pay the $20.

Yeah,

I think it was just on the forums, too.

I think I just made a new thread.

I was like, hey, my entire family got wiped out out and it's my birthday.

Can I have free sponsorship?

Because

I just couldn't afford it at the time.

I didn't have any money, like zero money.

And you told me to do one.

I was like, all right, but it's going to save it up.

And I think I became a super sponsor.

Yeah.

Which was 20 bucks for the year or for the season.

For the season.

And that was like a month later.

So yeah, I do, out of all of the messages and emails and everything, I do remember having a very early contact with Gavin while I was still in Puerto Rico sitting on my computer.

But somehow you got money because

the thing that I remember the most about you in those early days is I was running the store.

I ran the store for the first seven years of the company, right?

And so I would always launch a DVD or a t-shirt or whatever.

And the thing that was crazy is that we were in different time zones.

You were six or seven hours ahead of us.

Yeah.

And we would, no matter what time of day I would launch a DVD or

a messenger bag or a hoodie or whatever it was, you were the first person to buy it.

To the point where I would go to Gus and I'd be like, Let's see if it's, let's see if it's the British kid again.

And then we put it for sale and then like, do, do, do, do, it'd be you.

And be like, how the fuck do you know?

It's like, did you have a camera in our office at all times?

It was insane.

And not too long after that, you saved us.

You saved the fucking company.

Do you remember that?

Oh, when the

took over the probably bleep that

bleeped name.

who was

a mod on the site, demodded all of the staff and took the site over, and you caught it and stopped it.

I found afterwards, because they made like a secret chat where they were planning the big takedown, and all of them were like, how do we get around Gav?

Like, he's always on.

He's always online.

And then they all decided to start distracting me.

So like, right before that happened on AIM, like six different people started talking to me.

I was like, what's going on here?

so yeah i was demodded yeah someone with mod access on the old website demodded all of the mods and staff and then started deleting everything on the website like just going through a purge um which they thought was a funny prank which they almost got themselves into a lot of legal trouble do you know to this day he still doesn't think it was a big deal i spoke to him maybe five years ago it was a huge and he was like i mean it was just a funny joke and i was like

do you realize what they had the fucked up thing was the timing too because it was right before christmas It was December.

We were wrapping up like our last day of production.

We're like, we're going to finally be able to take like a week off.

Oh, my God.

And then all of this happened.

And it was like, man.

And, you know, their defense was, oh, you can just restore from backups.

It's like, we never really knew if the backups worked.

It's like we had backups in theory, but at the time it was me managing all the tech.

Yeah.

And it was like, I don't know how to backup a SQL database.

you know, they did work, but they hadn't run like in a week, if I remember right.

So it's like we had to back up from seven-day-old old archive um

it sucked yeah i remember it coming back and it was there's kind of like a bunch of glitches that happen when everything's back in time and like all the images that were uploaded in that week were just showing up as blanks and it was like kind of all funky looking but i remember just instantly aiming everyone i was just like hi hi hi

at the company being like uh everyone get on the site yeah that's so we were still at the apartment down in button we were like wrapping up it's like man we're almost done we'll be able to take some time off because we talked about how it was impossible to take time off back then And that was the worst possible time.

It was the worst possible time.

And

it was very nearly, very extremely revenue affecting.

Yeah.

I think that's the only thing that saved it from getting legal real quick.

I can't remember if this worked.

It might have been like someone else with admin access like gave my mod back to me.

But I remember going into the page and taking the link that changes mod status back to mod.

And I remember like pasting that to people on AIM to be like,

have you seen what's happening?

Hoping that they would click it because they're now a mod, making me a mod.

So I can.

That's funny.

That's really smart.

I was trying to combat the attack while all you guys with admin could potentially do more.

But I don't know if that ever worked.

I don't think I'd go to the mod report.

Dude, you endeared yourself to us so much that day.

You really did.

As if you hadn't already, but goddamn, man.

It's weird, though, because it's such a formative time.

I feel like late teens is where the thing you're into then then is the thing that will stick with you and be nostalgic forever.

And I think it was just like red versus blue was the main thing I cared about for all of those years.

Yeah.

So I just was, I was really excited to become a bigger part of it when I did.

And then you came and visited America one summer when you were 18 or 17.

Yeah, something like that.

With your dad.

Yeah.

And you met us in New York where we went, we did a show at the Lincoln Center.

Lincoln Center.

That was

January 05?

I want to say it was

August 05.

Yeah.

Was it August 19th?

It was right before Katrina, I think.

When was that?

Man.

Yeah, it would have been before Katrina.

Well, right before Katrina was a PAX, because I remember we were flying out of Seattle.

Yeah.

It's weird to be talking about all this stuff.

No one else talks like this.

Katrina's right.

It was right around when PAX was.

I know, because Bernie would always tell that story how we found out about Katrina from a dude who was dressed up as Cloud Strife with a giant sword because we'd been at the event all weekend.

And then it wasn't a big deal for days and then it was a huge deal all at once.

Yeah.

The Fukushima.

That Fukushima design.

That was Pax East.

I remember that.

We were next to you at Pax East.

And that happened.

I'm going to call for my girlfriend at the time because her brother lived in Japan and she's like, you're never going to believe what's going on right now.

And I'm like, guys, fellas, fellas, fellas.

I do remember that.

It is weird the things that you in this industry set as like the landmark things you were doing at that time.

It's like, oh, that was right.

Right before RTX.

And then you can also judge of the time.

Like, what time of year was it?

Like, oh, it's packed, so it must have been like late August, early September.

So that was the thing where some other community member made me stand up because I traveled all the way from England to watch Red vs.

Blue that I'd already seen.

Made you stand up in the audience?

Yeah.

And then...

In front of how many people were in the stage?

There's in the stage.

200?

Couple hundred?

Yeah.

And then I stood up.

And then you,

and this is, I was really shy at the time.

Like, I really hated anyone looking at me.

And you told everyone that my fly was down when I stood up.

Why did I tell them that?

My fly was down.

You said I was like, Gavin Freeman.

I'm like, oh my God.

Like, he came all the way from England.

Dude, your fly's down.

He came all the way from England to show you his penis.

And I'm filming it on a camcorder, I think.

And I'm just like, oh, shit.

You sit like dumped down in that shit.

Oh, my God.

And here we are, 100 years later, drinking coffee on your back porch.

Yeah, I never thought

i'd be making you all espresso at my house in america what a ride

i don't know if you remember this i wanted to to step back a couple of steps here there was actually another person in the uk who much like gavin also bought everything as soon as you put it on the store to the point where we were like hey We'll send you the stuff.

Like, you've already bought so much stuff.

Yeah.

When we make something, we'll just send it to you because you've already like

that.

Like, they would send money like randomly or like pay way more for a sponsorship than it should have been and we like stop we'd be like stop stop we'll just send it you've supported us enough let us support you a little bit yeah and we were just like so grateful for that um i don't know what it was about the uk when you guys uh like something you uh you really you really like it um that but i don't know if you remember that name has always stuck with me because it was such an unusual name it was

I do remember that name.

Yeah, it was like such a weird name.

I was always like, this is like some kind of bond villain.

Well, they had bond villain money, thank God.

Yeah.

It was, it was crazy how we would all just wait around on the forums for like three minutes of new video to come up.

And then there was the gap between seasons where I think between season one and two, nothing came out.

No.

It was just like we were all just hanging around waiting for the.

And that was so frustrating too, because y'all were being very patient.

And the reason we have a community site, the reason we started RT Comics,

the reason we started The Stranger Hood, because we had these gaps and we were watching our audience go away.

A lot of them go away.

We were just like, we hope they come back.

But the frustrating thing about that is we stopped production on episode 20 or whatever.

And then the DVD production started.

And then we were also behind the scenes at that time.

Almost from day one, we were making videos for corporate gigs, right?

For GameStop, for Microsoft.

And so back then it was all the Xbox Kios stuff.

Xbox Kiosk stuff.

It never stopped for us.

Like, y'all were like, okay, season one's over.

Now we have to wait six months for season two.

But we were like, we were still making one or two or three videos a week every fucking week.

Y'all just never saw them.

Or every once once in a while somebody would find them you know uh but i i always remember thinking like

that was a bummer for me because the work never stopped and we never stopped making the product we just only got to show you some of the product yeah you know and always felt weird and even through the dvd production you still made a shitload of bonus stuff for the dvd you're right like i remember because i eventually got to work on some of that for i think it might have been the season five dvd where yeah i was seeing i cut together a previously on red versus blue by watching every episode and just clipping out every swear word from every episode.

Oh, right.

That was a great one.

And yeah, that was like one of the first things I did.

And I just remember being, I was like, man, this is so cool.

I get to watch and work on Red vs.

Blue at the same time.

DVD production for those first six seasons of Red vs.

Blue, I would say, was probably the most fun and simultaneously challenging thing I have ever done in my life at the same time.

Like, it was so much fucking fun and it was so exciting because you would go like,

what else can we add?

And then somebody would have an idea and then that idea would snowball and then we were making that idea and it was always a nightmare to make, but it was so fucking great.

And we just couldn't, we got addicted to Easter eggs.

We wanted red versus blue DVDs to have more extra content than any other DVD on the market.

And so we would put 40 or 50 Easter eggs in DVDs.

Like it was lousy with them.

It was impossible to miss them.

There were so many.

They were crammed in everywhere.

But it's so hard to cram it all on like a five disc.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because

eventually you're like, we have to stop.

I know.

You have to stop.

We have to fucking just finish this thing.

I wouldn't like to stop.

I wanted to keep tinkering for it.

I wanted to stop all the time.

I was like, it's enough.

It's done.

Well, and then it would be like, all right, I think

this is the disc.

And then you have to test it in all the different DVD players around the world.

Bernie would be like, I think we have a release candidate.

And then everybody would have to take it home and watch it again.

He started shipping me then to be like, make sure this works in like a region two Xbox or whatever.

Because they were Region Zero, I guess.

Yes.

And there was no rival reason to it.

You know, it was really frustrating.

Yeah.

The DVD authoring software was really interesting because you saw how simple the whole thing was.

Like it was just like a series of scripts that DVD players run, and they all look at the scripts differently.

Like sometimes it'll work fine and every player, sometimes they're like, half the players, it works, half the players, it doesn't.

Just trying to test out as many different manufacturers as possible.

It sucked.

And I remember like some of the secret menus to get to an Easter egg would act differently on different players.

Like sometimes those fake buttons would like interrupt where the cursor went on a menu.

It'd be like, why is it going over to nothing?

Or sometimes an Easter egg just auto-plays when you go to a screen.

Yeah.

Which sometimes you want it.

Sometimes, but a lot of times you didn't.

Yeah, it's like, does the player interpret down on the remote the same as right on the remote?

Like if you hit right, will it go down?

Or if you hit right, will it go right?

Because both, if you have a vertical menu, both can accomplish the same thing.

but if you're hiding something in there, then it disrupts the flow.

It's just so stupid, the whole thing's dumb.

I remember a panicked moment when I was editing the previously on because I was sat at Matt's desk, I think, and he always had like the nice Mac cinema display, and this stuff was nice.

And I remember sneezing.

I remember being like, and I didn't, I was like, I can't sneeze all of that shit, so I just went to the side and I sneezed on the advertism mural, like on the dude's face.

And I was like, oh shit, I'm gonna have a real Mr.

Bean moment.

I was like,

try to

I'm gonna smear the whistler's mother.

Oh, man.

Oh, that's great.

So then

we started, we became friends, right?

We became like friends and roommates pretty instantly.

We became friends and roommates pretty instantly.

But we had the challenge of getting you, like, we knew pretty early on we wanted to work with you and we wanted you to live in America with us.

Right.

Like it was,

I think it was immediately clear to everybody involved with Rooster Teeth that you were the perfect fit in every way

with us.

And

that began the process of getting you to America legally, which became,

I gave up on, and then Bernie took it over.

You gave up pretty quickly.

I tried, but I went and talked to two lawyers and they went, there's no hope.

And all the lawyers I talked to on my end were like, No, I mean, you don't do anything.

What do you mean?

Why does America need you?

I was like, good point.

So how did you combat that?

I had to become famous.

No, I just had to become like known for my craft, basically.

So, you started the Slomo guys in some small part to get a green card to come to America.

That was the entire reason.

I don't want to take credit for it.

But yeah, like you, you started the Slomo guys to get to America to come work at Rooster Teeth, which is funny because the Slomo guys are bigger than Rooster Teeth.

The thing you started to get a job with us eclipsed

really quickly on YouTube.

What's What's that?

Well, it's only bigger on YouTube.

Well, YouTube's pretty big.

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Tocal benefits.

It was very tough because, I mean, if I have have any huge regrets, it's not getting a degree.

I don't think I ever would have used the degree outside of more eligible for a visa and a much quicker process.

So we had to go the really difficult route of...

I mean, the visa is for people who are already known.

It's for like actors who are

from another country who are needed here temporarily.

But to go from not known at all to getting one of those is so much time.

Yeah, it's either like four years for the degree or become famous.

Like, somehow the famous thing is quicker.

And like it's really crazy to me how prolific it is, how prolific the Slow-Mo guys is, you know, even to the point where a clip from that you created is in a best picture winner.

Like a bit of the Slow-Mo Guys is in everything everywhere all at once.

Yeah, they licensed a little snippet.

It's like half a second.

I think I have something like 14 frames in an Oscar winning movie.

That's so awesome.

Is it in the credits at all?

Yeah.

That's so cool.

Yeah, because they like officially...

I didn't know it was a film because, like, a lot of movie companies have like weird names, they never say the title of the movie, so it was like Hot Dog Hands Productions or something.

When you saw it, did you recognize it immediately when you saw the movie?

Were you like, oh, that's my set, or did you have to?

Or were you blinking at the time?

Yeah.

Did you know where to look for it?

I saw it in the trailer, I think, because people told me about it.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah, like, because I'm not really on social that much,

I still find out about it through like people,

just my friends, like sending me links to tweets and stuff.

Yeah, so that's even cooler.

Out of all of the frames in that film that they could have used in the trailer, those 14 were important enough to make it to the trailer, right?

Like this is like, this is what's going to entice people to come watch the movie.

It's like only a minute and a half, two minutes of footage.

Your 14 frames made it in there.

And I think every frame of it from the trailer is the entirety of the use of the film, too.

Do you have any bucket list

items left for Slow-Mo guys?

Anything that you would love to do that you just haven't done?

Because you've done, you filmed with like pre-slap Will Smith.

You've done, you've been

all over the world.

You've had a couple of, you've had a TV show in England, you've had huge, like, big-time shows on YouTube.

Um, and there's definitely people I would still like to work with.

Yeah.

Like, I wanted to do a gag where I just replace Dan with different Dans.

Like, just to have, like, Daniel Radcliffe in a video and just him say, I'm Dan, and we just don't ever reference that it's Daniel Radcliffe.

Like, just little gags like that.

But yeah, like, nothing huge, I don't think.

Yeah.

I'm just thankful that it's still

going.

Yeah, but I mean, pays for the espresso maker.

Pays for the espresso maker and the bad beans.

You got to do...

I mean, you got to set the sights high.

Why not, like, slow-mo guys in space?

Get, like, some kind of

space tourism thing.

There's individual videos that I can't afford to make without sponsorships and things.

But...

Yeah, I feel like I've been lucky enough to get around to a lot of it.

But to be honest, most of the stuff I look forward to every week is still rooster teeth-based.

Yeah.

Like it's still

our podcast

is like the main thing that I look forward to every week.

You can name the podcast if you want to.

Oh, yeah.

I assume you're referring to the f ⁇ Face podcast?

That's the one.

Oh, great.

Yeah.

Has to be...

No offense to the podcast you used to do with Gus, but has to be...

the most fun and the best thing I've ever been a part of in my life.

No offense to this podcast either.

But like...

I don't think that's damn.

All right, well, uh, that's it, I guess.

Uh, no, I love this podcast too, but face is just like it's a, I don't know, it's like a perfect storm.

I feel like I just'm so thankful to be able to make

because I think that's all I want to do ever is just make videos.

Or really, it's just like showing people stuff.

Yeah, I think that's why I like the slow-mo.

It's like, check out this thing that you've seen before, but look at how weird it is, Slow.

Like, it's like showing someone a thing, and I feel like with face, we're just showing people Andrew.

Like, look at this.

Look how weird this guy guy is.

Look at this freak did this week.

It's funny you say, you know, looking at things that maybe you've seen before, but like a slightly different angle.

There's something you worked on years ago,

pre-Rooster Teeth.

Well,

pre-your involvement with Rooster Teeth, I should say, that I still think about every now and then.

It was that old Millimeters Matter advertisement campaign that never aired in the US.

I think it was like a UK.

Throwing the tiny pies?

Throwing tiny pies at flies.

And the entire commercial is like flies flying around getting hit by like tiny whipped cream pies like and it's like it's such a weird yeah comedic well you know comedic trope the the the the whipped cream pie thing to be throwing like tiny versions at flies for a commercial for cell phones is like so fucking weird i love it do you ever wonder what your life would be like if you didn't come to america like if you'd stayed in england like you were already you were well what's the leak a lot of people may not know this but you learned how to you created slow-mo guys in in part because you were already proficient in high-speed camera operation because you had got a job interning with a neighbor who wasn't a creep and actually turned out to be a good guy.

Yeah.

Even though anytime you, at a 16 years old, you know, you intern with your old neighbor guy, it typically goes wrong.

It didn't for you, which is

16.

Yeah, I feel like

somehow

throwing stones.

All of the dudes, an entire generation above me that I've met when I was a teenager, it worked out really well.

But like, so what was the last?

Because you worked on Sherlock Holmes, you worked on Hot Fuzz, you worked on a lot of movies.

Was Thor the last thing you did?

I was going to work on Thor Dark World.

Okay.

But then I came here.

But I think the last film I worked on was Snow White and the Huntsman.

Oh, right.

Snow White and the film.

Filming some guy in armor swinging a sword around.

Do you ever miss doing that?

I guess you scratch that itch with Somalo Guys.

It's a different vibe.

I didn't realize how often stuff comes up in conversation where I used to be like, oh yeah, I worked on that something.

People who are interested in film, I could tell them some of the behind the scenes.

So it's like really useful for conversations, but I don't miss the stress and I don't miss waking up at 5 a.m.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And because like Thunderbolt didn't exist back then, I don't miss standing under a light with a pissed off electrician waiting for me to be done downloading the footage in the middle of the woods before driving all the way home and then coming back the next morning at 5.

You don't miss having to be intimidated by Guy Richie at all times.

He's a scary guy.

He was nice, but you could just tell you didn't want to piss him off.

Yeah.

But he's like so London.

He would look back at footage that he'd shot, and a lot of the time he's just like playing chess on the set.

This is like his thing.

He loves chess.

But then whenever.

And we heard you got your ass kicked yesterday.

I lost at chess yesterday.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Meg and I playing battle chess from 1988.

She was bragging about it last night at Bingo.

But

he would always get up and look at the monitors and stuff.

Because he he like directs with his eyes a lot of the time and he doesn't necessarily watch playback of dialogue.

But whenever the phantoms cut, he would always be like right against the monitors, be like, oh, bloody, oh, that's fucking amazing.

Yeah, but he was always very complimentary.

And there was almost one disaster on that set.

Where I think I've told this on another podcast, but the cameras were, there was stacked phantoms, one above the other, one on a tight lens, one on a wide lens.

And there was like 100 meters of rail It's called speed rail and they and we would like set all the settings on the camera the camera would go all the way to the end of the rail and then it would shoot back full speed while all the explosions are going off and all this other stuff.

But once the cameras leave we can't control them anymore.

We still have the video feed but I can't change anything on them.

And I noticed that they were about to call action and one of the cameras wasn't rolling.

Like it was still, it hadn't been re-armed.

Like I guess the guy I was with had

like reset one of them, assuming it would do the other one as well, but it hadn't.

And they were about to go, and I was just like, stall, stall.

And I just sprinted all the way up the track, like freak it out.

Like, I don't think I've ever been to the bottom.

Just to hit on the record button.

Yeah, and I just ran past all the crew.

I was like jumping over people.

I was like running through special effects people.

And I had to like reach under the weather bag.

And I was like, I can't hit the button.

I was like doing this.

Like, come on.

And I eventually held the button.

I was like,

I just slowly walked back while all these explosions are gone.

And I was like, we almost had an absolute disaster.

Oh, my God.

Because the amount of reset and money that would have cost if we didn't have that angle.

Yeah, that would have been a that's that's a

that's job affecting, I would imagine.

Yeah, it's so bad.

That's why you have two cameras rolling at once so you get all the coverage you need.

Because he was doing like a 300-style, like punch into the tight, punch out, like he was like doing zooms in post between the cameras.

So if you don't have one of them, then I guess he's just stuck on the wide the whole time and he's never going to use it.

Terrifying.

I bet.

Yeah, I don't, I don't miss that.

You don't get that kind of pressure on face.

So yeah, there's things I miss, and there's things that

I definitely love just shooting my own slow-mo now.

Yeah.

Well, it sounds much more relaxing.

You don't have to do action movie montage, stopping the missiles from launching

kind of heroics these days.

Do you still enjoy it just as much as you did?

Filming?

Yeah, Slow-Mo.

Like, the process?

Yeah, I'm still...

I'm still excited to watch the footage back.

That's great.

It's harder to come up with stuff now that I haven't seen it a billion times, but I've just been recently taking more sponsorships so I can fund more expensive videos.

Like we just flew to Colorado because I wanted to see if we could deflect a bullet with C4, which isn't something I can do cheaply anywhere.

So that was like one of the times where I was like, I just took a random sponsor, took the money from that, and just funded a new video with it.

Could you do it?

Or do I have to wait for it?

It's going to be out pretty soon.

Okay.

Up on the channel.

It's funny because I felt like sometimes

I'll have an idea and be like, oh, gamma, you filmed this in slow-mo.

I'll be like, wait, didn't he already do that?

And I was going to go back and look like, oh, yeah, he did that one already.

Every idea I have, I don't even know, I don't even bring it up anymore.

I felt like in the early days, I would come up with stuff and I'd like, I'd send you ideas, and you still hadn't made it, but now you have such an expansive catalog.

It's like, before I ever, that's why I don't ever text you ideas anymore because every idea I have, like, oh, yeah, he already did it.

Shit, it's already on me.

I feel like I'm doing that with all the plane videos.

I'm like, he's already seen this.

He already knows that this guy that faked a plane crash is probably going to jail.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So we mentioned earlier that you and Gus haven't seen each other since you were last on a podcast together, which was the RT podcast, which we,

I guess, re uh

relaunched.

We relaunched with a new cast.

And so you guys haven't performed together, which is something that Eric and I talked about as an aside in the most recent

supplemental for Anma we did where we both,

I think, openly admit that we only do this podcast because we'll never see you again.

I'm very much much a recluse.

It's not like an indictment of anybody else.

No, of course not.

I don't think either of us take it personally at all.

But I know, and you and I have been friends now, Gus,

since 1998.

Almost 25 years?

Yeah, 25 years, 1998.

And

I would say

that

our friendship is as strong as it's ever been, partially because I know that when we stop this podcast, we'll never see each other again.

But I respect and understand that, the boundaries that we we have.

And

you're a recluse.

I'm not a recluse, not on the level of you, but it just, it's part of why we keep, like Eric and I want to keep this going because I still want Gus in my life in some tangible way.

Yeah, I haven't figured that out yet.

So I was going to say, you guys, maybe there's a new podcast you guys need to work on

to figure out.

I tried to take,

I actually saw Jeff outside of podcasting last week.

I tried to take him flying.

But the radio didn't work in the plane.

Like we went through the whole process trying to get.

We were there probably two hours.

Yeah, turned on the plane and everything.

It's like, oh, they can't hear us.

We can't go.

Was it you or them?

Was it the plane?

Something was wrong in the plane.

Yeah.

Like the, it just was the antenna was, who knows?

Something was wrong.

They couldn't hear us, so we couldn't go.

I had so much, I legitimately had so much fun not flying with Gus.

Having Gus explain to me, do the safety checks, walk around, explain the plane to me, show me the book as he meticulously goes down each item and checks, tells me how everything works, shows me the backups backups for everything.

Then we get out and we go sit like in the pilot's lounge for a while because there were clouds and just shot the shit and listened to other dudes tell insane stories about people doing meth at work.

And it was just wild.

And then, and then you get in the plane and we drive around.

We drive right by Elon Musk's little jet.

The big jet.

Big jet, yeah.

And then

Gus goes, hey, we're going to take off now.

And they, and nobody hears them.

And he goes, all right, we're going to, we're going to go repark and go home now.

But it was so.

Jeff goes, why are they ignoring us?

And I was like, I don't know.

Can they not hear us?

Like, trying the other radio and trying to get the corner.

Like some other pilot was like, I can hear you fine.

We were hanging out on the weekend.

I think we had like a 15-minute conversation about how we all feel safe around Gus.

Yeah.

It's absolutely true.

Are you worried about flying with me?

No.

Well, I don't know.

I just

got weird luck.

I was going to invite you next after I've knocked Jeff out.

Okay.

After he knocked him out.

They take care of Jeff.

No, after I take him up and push him out of the plane and knock him out.

So mentioning that y'all's podcast, or you guys are no longer on that podcast, another big change at Roosteith that's happened lately is the Achievement Hunter brand is ending.

And

I don't think you and I have really talked about it, Gavin.

We haven't talked about it on camera for sure or on mic for sure.

This was going to be my question for today, so we can just get to the anarchy question now.

How are you feeling about the Achievement Hunter stuff?

Yeah, how are you feeling about the Achievement Hunter stuff?

I mean, I feel like I've been pretty, i recorded a whole like fucking talk about it in front of a video this week what are your thoughts on 15 years of achievement hunter did you were there almost from the beginning yeah i remember uploading a lot of the like the video game artwork to the original website yeah because it was about more about tracking achievements it can but it comprised a big part of your life i mean you uh when you a lot of people don't know this but when you came and you moved to america to work with us full-time it wasn't to work for achievement hunter you were working in the back with brandon and the and the live action crew and you were doing stuff back there.

And I think it wasn't, I don't want to speak for you, but I think it wasn't what you had maybe envisioned.

And there was a period when you came to me and you told me about two weeks in to being in America and living with me that you were moving back to England.

And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Why?

And you were like, I just don't, I'm not feeling it.

It doesn't seem, I think I'm going to go back.

I think maybe it wasn't the right decision.

And I said, do this.

Come into my room, into the, we'll shut the door, come into the achievement hunter room and just spend all day with me and we'll just do And then you did that and I really think that that's the moment that achievement hunter hit a different level.

Yeah, because there was I because I think Bernie envisioned me that I would just mainly do like main Rooster Teeth stuff too.

Yeah, you're going to be a big director and that kind of stuff.

But there wasn't a lot for me to do in between.

Yeah.

And

for whatever reason at the time, I couldn't work on Slow-Mo there and I was doing that at home.

So it's just like,

during the day, so I just started like coming into Achievement Hunter and I would just watch you play

zombies or whatever before people came into the because we arrived pretty early, so it would just be you and me there in the mornings.

Yeah, and I think at the time there was a different intern in Achievement Hunter, so I had to wait for them to go home so I could take their desk.

But I think like a few days after I arrived, we did, we were already doing the stuff that we used to do when I was visiting,

which I think at the time I was just calling live commentary gaming.

I didn't really know what it was called.

Yeah, we were making let's plays before we realized what let's plays were.

I remember being really keen during the achievement guides phase to do one live.

And I remember being like,

we should try and record the audio as we play.

And you were like,

well, it's going to be a mess to edit.

What do you mean?

I was like, we could do this jump shot achievement in Left 4 Dead.

We'll just record us doing it.

If it's no good, I'll just cut it into a regular guide and do commentary anyway.

But it ended up being, I was playing some of it back to you.

And you're like, it's the funniest shit ever.

This is great.

Yeah,

you probably invented Let's Plays in that moment.

and then not too long after that there was like a four-player uh left for dead one where it was the one where you try to get the gas cans and survival board yeah and i don't know that i was in that it was like maybe it was you guys bernie and joel i think that's right like you two bernie and joel and then you and i did a watchman one as well not too long after that and then we didn't do it again for years yeah until i started doing them with michael but they were a lot

they're a lot of my effort to edit yeah and i think that was the problem and i remember we did like a pretty early odst firefight one oh yeah yeah yeah and i was just with this came out recently we were you and bernie were shooting a

commercial for odst i think it was like the game stop pre-order commercials for i forgot about that commercial wow it was a hard commercial yeah and we had debugs debug kits of the xboxes so you can like you know plop in the right skins and like unlock all the helmets and the camera controls but for some reason we couldn't like have an empty map So you and Bernie were machinimating the ad in one of the rooms in Firefight in one of the maps.

And I was just at the door fending off the covenant off screen.

They kept, there only people like a grunt throwing a grenade into the middle of the ad.

So I'm just there.

I was like, ha ha ha ha ha.

And we could get like maybe four minutes before I was completely overwhelmed.

And I just let the fact that I was just off camera fighting the entire army while you were just like, hey, so

it's so funny because a couple of this came up a couple of weeks ago because I had the idea.

We're doing gameplay stuff on the Let's Play channel.

And so you and I have been getting creative again.

And Andrew's been getting extra creative.

Yeah.

And I had the idea.

Andrew and I filmed some funny stuff in warzone where i was just he didn't have the ability to capture yet so i was acting as his cameraman and we were just trying to film a trailer for like a 2023 video game mixtape and so we were just filming andrew jumping through windows but every once in a while somebody would come and shoot us and up the shoot and i had the idea i pitched it to you to y'all in text that we should make the most dangerous

commercial ever or most dangerous video ever.

We write like a three minute video and it has to be filmed in a live war scene in Warzone.

And Gavin was like, yeah, we already did that.

We did that in ODSD.

You were there.

And I was like, ah, fuck.

It's kind of invigorating, though, being back in the creative mindset, but almost from the beginning again.

Because we don't have to necessarily do what we've been doing the whole time.

We could just do...

We've been making some weird videos.

Yeah.

Like Andrew did a magic show.

Dude,

you don't even know how weird some of the videos are as they relate to you.

Oh, yeah.

I've heard little things about here and there.

I want to wait until they're done.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It would be better for you not to see any of those.

Yeah, I I assume it's not going to be great for me.

But yeah, it's been really fun.

And I think I've always said I don't really care where the thing is or what it's called.

I just, I've always loved making video game videos with my friends.

Yeah.

I like what you said there about it's almost like a,

for lack of a better word, like a reset for expectations and for rails that you have to be like bound by.

It's like you get to like break out of it and just really try to explore and see, you know, what works, what doesn't work.

And it's not all, and it's not all going to be bangers.

Sometimes they don't work, but sometimes they do.

And it's so funny because for so many years, you know, we would get that from the audience.

They would say, we don't want you to play stuff you don't want to play.

Just play what you want to play.

We can tell you're not enjoying it.

It's play.

And we'd go, okay, we're going to stop playing Minecraft.

And they go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Hold on.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

No, we want you to play Minecraft and GTA.

No, we actually, we really want you to play these games.

No, play these games, but just enjoy it more.

I never got bored of GTA.

I could have played that forever.

Game's 10 years old now.

I know.

I played it.

Or GTA 5.

I played played it recently with some other friends, and I didn't know what to do.

So I was like, we used to do this thing in Chilead.

We would take buses up to the top of the Chilead and then just drive them down.

Maybe we'll do that.

And I did that for a night with some friends, and it is still just as fun as it ever was.

It's just so stupid.

So stupid.

We just recorded half the season of face-off, which was just an idea that we had before all of this other, hey, let's do let's play, whatever came about.

We were going to record two videos of a six-video thing.

We had so much fun doing the first two.

We just went, let's just do a third one.

It was so good and so much fun.

It comes out when this comes out, it'll be one more Monday.

So we come out 10-9, come out October 9th.

I can't wait to do more face stuff where we're just not even being in it, watching it happen and then watching the stuff come together has been so much fun for this video game stuff.

There's a there's a thing in episode three of Face Off.

Actually, episode three of Face Off.

Oh, yeah.

You couldn't script a better, more engrossing, more enthralling, exciting, catastrophic sports event than episode.

Like,

I can't believe it worked out the way it did.

You know?

Like,

the characters and everything, like, the moment it goes sideways and who it goes sideways.

It's just, it's in, I don't want to spoil anything, but it's just insane how that episode plays out.

I think overall

it feels right to be making content on there.

Like, and you and I started the channel, I mean, with, with the other people at the time, but I've never really had a huge absence from it.

Like, I've definitely had a reduced

out, yeah.

But I feel like overall, I'm just, it's like a continuation for me, and I don't really ever want to stop making these video game videos.

And I also, I feel like

I still even want to find a way to make play pals with Michael.

I don't know where it would go, but I don't really want that to end either.

I hope, I hope that there'll be space for it on Dog Bark, their new channel.

But if not, I'll do it on there.

Let's play.

I have no problem with that at all.

Because I agree.

I think those videos are wonderful and people still love them.

And if you still love making them, there's no reason to stop.

Yeah.

And I'm also in a similar situation with a lot of people at work where if I stop making videos with them, I'll never see them again.

Yeah.

And that's really sad.

It's funny to hear you say, like, you, you know, you want to keep doing this and keep playing video games.

As I've been getting older, I'm thinking about this a lot about how,

what would it be like if when my father was the age I am now, he was still like into video games and doing stuff?

Because I am now the age my father was when we started Rooster Teeth.

Which is like kind of mind-blowing to me to think about.

Actually, he was one year older.

So I'm almost the age that my dad was when we started this.

And he was like, in my mind, when we started, he was like so old.

And like, I couldn't imagine him ever doing this stuff.

Like, I just finished Baldur's Gate 3 last night.

I'm about to dive into Starfield.

Like, I'm still super into video games and like really immature things.

That's crazy that you could have a son that's starting a Rooster Teeth.

Yeah, some of the Best Friends Today kids, I'm like,

Millie's like a year younger than the Best Friends Today kids.

Yeah, like we filmed that video

like

a couple weeks ago announcing like the first changes and dog bark and all that stuff.

And like the running theme throughout the video was like Nerf guns and handing people Nerf guns and doing crazy stuff.

And I was like, I don't want to shoot a Nerf gun.

I'm too old.

Like then in the script,

they're supposed to hand me a Nerf gun I'm supposed to take.

And in the video, I was like, how old are you?

I think I'm old enough to be your dad.

so some things yeah I have outgrown but no video games no it's always weird when you put like age things into perspective I remember being 31 and I was like man I'm older than I've been alive longer than Austin Powers was frozen I was like really like weird things to compare it to and it just feels

That was such a big point.

Like he wakes up from being frozen.

He's like, all this stuff in the world has changed.

And I'm like, I don't think that much is, I guess it has.

Like all this stuff since I was born is like so different to now.

Yeah.

It's messed up to think about.

It is messed up to think about.

Yeah, now you got nice 103-degree autumn days.

You never had that when you were a kid.

I'm sweat.

It is so hot.

I'm so done with Austin as of yesterday.

Yesterday was the day that officially broke me.

When we're recording, yesterday,

the day before we recorded, it was 103 degrees in autumn, and then at night it hailed baseball size hail in central Austin, which was pretty fucking cool.

You get like the worst of everything Austin has to offer all in one day.

So, you're saying you were saying that like uh

you've never really stopped with the with the achievement hunter-esque content and what now face is in many ways like becoming the spiritual successor on the gaming side, so it doesn't feel like it's ever there's not been a break or a gap for you.

Yeah, I mean, I've definitely gone down to you know 10% of my previous capacity, but I've never been gone outside of like that show I shot in the desert for three months and all that.

But that's kind of why achievement hunter ending feels okay to me.

Yeah, because it's like

at the end of the day, Achievement Hunter was just a name I came up with to give an excuse to do the thing that we did.

And what we did has morphed into face, which is just a name you come up with.

to give a cont a wrapper around the thing that we're doing.

And at the end of the day, the thing that we're doing is you and I are just making content together.

And you and I have been making content together every day since you walked into that Achievement Hunter office, you know?

And to me, it doesn't really fucking matter what the name or the label or or the logo is.

What matters is the quality of the thing that we're doing.

And I'm just happy that we've never stopped.

And I don't, I mean, I guess, I guess briefly, there was about a two-year period there when I stopped, when I became the executive creative director, and I wasn't, we weren't making face yet.

Maybe it was about a year, and uh, where we weren't actively making stuff together, but even in then, we were doing stuff like RT Stuck at home.

There were, there were things that we peppered in, but I guess what I, the point is, it like the more I think about it, the less it matters

what we call any of it.

I just want to get up every day and make you laugh and be made to laugh by you and Andrew and Nick and Eric and whoever.

And I feel the same.

As long as I have that outlet,

I'm happy.

Yeah.

And I'm happy and I'm genuinely happy that the other

that everybody who was involved with Achievement Hunter got to go off and do something and kind of be in charge of and kind of lead in the way that I got to.

Because at the end of the day, I created Achievement hunter with a tremendous help from a lot of people and and jack was there from day one as well but i get why people

like i wanted i created achievement hunter because i didn't want to make bernie's red versus blue anymore yeah you know at the end of the day which is why you created the rt podcast yeah uh we wanted to have our own thing we wanted to be in charge of our own destiny we wanted to to produce our own deal right you know and i don't know why we everybody wouldn't want that for everybody else i feel i feel like it's important every so often to do a little like gut check of everyone and be like is everyone working on stuff that they want to be working on yeah and when that's not happening for the majority, then it makes total sense to try a new thing, like be once again working on something you really care about.

Yeah, I agree.

Well, what a great note to transition the conversation a little bit here.

Let's talk about the coffee.

I was about to say, so, Gavin, you haven't listened to the show.

You've been saving it.

So, we're happy to have you on.

The way the show works is we reminisce, we have a good time, we enjoy the coffee that we get, regardless of how long it takes.

And then we take some questions maybe from the audience to talk about the achievement hunter stuff.

And then we rate the coffee out of 10.

Just sort of talk about the flavor, the taste, what we think about the place in general, that kind of a thing.

So

if you want to start us off,

I don't know, Jeff, you want to talk about the coffee?

Yeah.

Gavin Free,

the person

is a 10 out of 10.

A plus plus.

Gavin Free, the Espresso Maker, is a 6 out of 10.

Oh, that's.

I'll take a six.

That's one of the lowest scores I've ever given.

Okay.

You're a 6.8 out of 10.

All I know how to make is like a latte or a cappuccino.

I still don't understand the difference at all.

I make really milky espresso drinks where it's tolerable.

I cannot drink my own espresso on itself.

Why did you offer us espresso?

I didn't.

You said, oh, I'll take three espresso's.

Because that's all you know.

I don't know what you mean.

I could have made you some milky froth.

You hate milk.

I don't like milk.

Yeah.

So I'm going to rate the coffee 30,000 frames out of 10.

Okay, nice.

Nice.

All right.

There you go.

Eric?

I just give it like a six and a half.

It's not bad.

I've had way worse espresso.

I'm not much of an espresso guy, but it was nice to sit and sip

to really enjoy some flavor there.

Where do you get your beans from?

This is from a bag from a local place.

It's called Starbucks Pike Place.

Roast beans.

You can definitely tell.

Yeah, it just tastes like kind of burnt when it's just on its own.

But I can mask that with the milk.

Right, but have you considered buying other beans?

Here's my thing.

I know I can make a six out of ten with this stuff.

And if I go and buy a different bag, it might be a four.

Like, basically, I know what I'm going to get with this.

I don't have...

I've not spent the time.

That is my fucking Jack Patillo reasoning if I've never heard it.

Now I know the perfect gift to get for Gavin Free.

The perfect gift would just be saying the name of a good coffee bean.

Oh, like a good brand.

Yeah.

Wild gift.

You can get, I Eric's a big fan of Barrett's.

I like Barrett's a lot.

They have good espresso, so they'll have some darker beans that are going to be better for that.

I think anything that you get, you'll probably want a little bit on the darker side.

I would assume.

Okay.

Well, maybe in another 100 episodes, come back and I'll see if I've improved.

One thing, one thing you can, I can promise you won't see it coming.

Yeah, I guess not.

All right.

Thanks for having us, Gav.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for coming.

Nice to see you.

Thanks, Cav.

Love you.