Episode 390: Lee Trink: Are We Raising a Generation That Can’t Handle Real Life? Discover What’s Holding Them Back

Speaker 1 Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

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Speaker 2 Welcome to this solo duo episode that we're doing today with my friend Lee Trink.

Speaker 2 Hi. Hello, Lee.

Speaker 1 How are you, Jay? Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 You're welcome. Lee Tees.

Speaker 3 Thanks for inviting me to your solo.

Speaker 2 You're welcome. He keeps on teasing me because he says it's not a solo.

Speaker 1 I'm sitting here. I'm sitting here.

Speaker 1 What do I know?

Speaker 2 I know, but like I said in an earlier episode, that it's more to have someone to kind of debate with and go back and forth. And we used to call them solos.
So you're right.

Speaker 2 Just thank you for joining me on this short er episode. My pleasure.
Today's topic is going to be on likability. And this is why.
It's my belief that

Speaker 2 in order to achieve your most ambitious goals, no matter what they are, before you have the grit, before you have the tenacity, before you have the boldness, the precursor to any of that is likability.

Speaker 2 Because if you're not likable, you're unable to

Speaker 2 have the boldness, let's say, to get away with certain things or to ask for certain things because people will be less likely or will be will be less likely to help you if you're not likable.

Speaker 2 So what my first question to you, that's my opinion. I think likability is the precursor for everything.

Speaker 2 Would you tend to agree or disagree?

Speaker 3 So I agree, but I think likability takes on many forms. And also, if you're too likable, then

Speaker 3 it actually doesn't work in your favor because people, I think, treat you like a doormat, right? Like, I think defining what likability is is important. I think

Speaker 3 the other thing I would say about people is some people like assholes. Like,

Speaker 1 you've done well.

Speaker 3 I mean, look, there are plenty of people that would call me an asshole.

Speaker 2 I was going to say, you know what? There's always an anomaly. I mean, it's true.

Speaker 3 No, look, it's true, but I would also say that, like, do you think you're an asshole? No, I don't think I'm an asshole, but I bet there are people who think I'm an asshole.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 2 Why do you think people think you're an asshole?

Speaker 3 I don't know, because I think that I'm confident. And sometimes people will confuse confidence for arrogance.
And I don't think I'm arrogant, but I think that I'm confident.

Speaker 3 And I think I own my own shit. And believe me, I'm very far from perfect, but I own my own shit.

Speaker 2 And you know what it is about you? You're aloof. I am aloof.
That's the word, aloof. I think people mistake arrogance for aloofness.
Sometimes. yeah.

Speaker 2 You could be aloof and people think you're arrogant. Yeah.

Speaker 3 It depends on the context, too, right?

Speaker 2 Okay, but do you think, do you think your aloofness or quote-unquote arrogance, let's just say, has worked to your advantage?

Speaker 3 I think it's probably a mixed bag. I don't think I've ever suffered from a likability problem, right? I think that whatever it is, the full composite is interesting enough.

Speaker 3 Like, I think sometimes being interesting and maybe magnetism is another quality. Maybe Maybe it's a component of likability or maybe it's a counterbalance, right?

Speaker 3 Because I think if there are people, and forget about me, I don't want to sit here and talk about me, but just thinking about people that other people gravitate towards, right?

Speaker 3 I think that there's sometimes magnetism in those people that comes with some other stuff that maybe, if you talk about those traits, are not that likable.

Speaker 3 Like maybe part of the reason I say that is where, you know, my background working with a lot of musicians and rock stars, like that is magnetism. Likeability is kind of not,

Speaker 3 their rules of likability are not the same for regular people. And I think that that also is the same for people in general.
Like, likabilities can take on different forms.

Speaker 2 Okay, I'll tell you something that's interesting. So, I listened to Jared Leto on Leto, sorry, on Smartlist the other day.
I think I told you. So, just quickly, Lee used to manage, like, still,

Speaker 3 I helped break 30 seconds tomorrow as an artist. Right.

Speaker 2 And Kid Rock and a bunch of these people, Katy Perry, a bunch. But I was going to say, I listened to Jared and he was very likable on the Smartlist podcast.
Why?

Speaker 2 And this is where I'm going to get into it. I found it to be, I found him to have a lot of humility.
He had a sweet, he sounded, he sounded to have like a softness and a sweetness about him.

Speaker 2 And he had this like, ah, shucks type of thing. And he also portrayed a good work ethic.
So if that, to me, that's what made him feel likable.

Speaker 2 Now, I know just as well as you do, that perception is not always reality and optics are optics. But if he's going for being likable, I think those are really key touch points to have.

Speaker 2 And so at least he knows he has a wherewithal to know that to be, to be likable, he has to have these certain things. Now, I guess my first question is, is he really those things?

Speaker 3 Oh,

Speaker 3 I think so. Okay.
He's, I would also say he's one of the toughest guys I've ever worked with, right? But he's also one of the most hardworking.

Speaker 3 So, you know, there are things that balance each other out. Like,

Speaker 3 again, really difficult, but has a point of view and is able to deliver and does the work himself. So, like, you know, I say, okay,

Speaker 3 I'll take the sum of those parts.

Speaker 2 Okay, so that's interesting, right? So then let's break it down. Like, what, in your opinion, do you think makes somebody likable?

Speaker 3 I think different, I think that there's not a one-size-fits-all in likability. I think some people make that awesh.
I don't think he's an awesh, likable, likable likable guy.

Speaker 1 He was on that podcast. I love that.

Speaker 3 That's interesting.

Speaker 3 I should listen to it. I told you to listen to it.

Speaker 1 Because he came up with a lot of people.

Speaker 3 But I mean, he's like a mega, like the guy is like an Oscar-winning, you know, actor and rock star. Like, you know,

Speaker 2 the most beautiful human being on the planet. The guy's 52 years old.

Speaker 3 You can't get further away from Aush Yucks than,

Speaker 1 but, but look, he's not.

Speaker 3 And I also think in a way, he's gotten nicer in some ways because he's accomplished so much. And I think that also helps, right? Like if you're talking about the ultra successful.

Speaker 2 He came a long way from my so-called life, number one, okay? Like that was definitely not like he, like we all probably, like me as a girl, like we all had the biggest crush on him.

Speaker 2 We thought we'd never see him again. Like he looked like he was a one-hit.
you know, thing that just with a pretty face. Next thing, who knew he was like this amazing actor, this amazing musician.

Speaker 2 And by the way, on that podcast, he was talking about how he climbed the Empire State Building. Like, I mean, like, it's like, but legit, like, climbed it.

Speaker 2 But the reason why I'm saying that is, let's just take it back a second, because I think that you think, you think, I should say, you think that there's a whole different like soup of a variety of different qualities that make somebody likable depending on the situation.

Speaker 1 I still believe, you're right. I believe.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think whatever the 100% of likability is, there's... a dozen different traits.
You can have one of them, three of them, six of them in whatever combination, and you make it work as a package.

Speaker 2 Okay, so let's just say there's a menu, right? I still think there's foundationally things that make people likable.

Speaker 2 And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I think that if someone is not that likable, they can improve their likability by working on some core elements. I agree with you.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So one of the elements that I think that makes somebody exceptionally likable is enthusiasm.

Speaker 2 If someone brings enthusiasm to a situation or positivity, automatically they're going to be more likable than someone who's a negative Nellie. That's the first thing.
Okay.

Speaker 2 I think the second thing is humility. That's why when Jared Leto showed humility to me, I found it to be something that I like took note of.

Speaker 2 I think, you know, the idea that you're not braggadocious, that you have a humbleness about you, I think it's very, very attractive. And it doesn't matter if you're a guy or a girl.

Speaker 2 The other thing I think is super likable is someone who's very generous, generous generous with your time, generous with not just, not money, but just like generous in like your thoughts and your time and always available to be generous to help somebody.

Speaker 2 Those are some of the, I mean, there's other ones as well. So

Speaker 3 I want to push back on some of those, on the requirement of, if you're, if you're saying those are like requirements for like

Speaker 1 those are

Speaker 2 kind of foundational core cores and there's other ones too. I think that there are other ones too.

Speaker 3 Like let me give you an example of one trait that can make up for deficiency and even like the wrong back, the wrong direction of some of those traits. Okay.
Sense of humor.

Speaker 3 I think if you have a sense of humor, you can, that makes up for a lot of things. First of all, people totally can't help themselves.

Speaker 3 If you can make somebody laugh, you disarm them from a lot of things.

Speaker 3 And so if you are somebody with no humility, but you have a good sense of humor, it's just disarming enough and people will like you despite the fact that there are traits that they dislike about you.

Speaker 2 Totally true. Name somebody that you think of.
Like think of somebody that you know who has a really good sense of humor, but like is kind of like an asshole.

Speaker 3 Look, I'm going to go back to just well-known.

Speaker 3 No, I mean,

Speaker 3 I think I use humor sometimes to do that.

Speaker 1 I think I use humor. I'm not funny.

Speaker 3 I'm not as funny as I used to be.

Speaker 3 That's another thing.

Speaker 1 That's a whole other

Speaker 1 podcast.

Speaker 3 But I'm going to pick, you know, instead of picking Joe Schmo that nobody knows, I'll pick somebody that people know, like Kid Rock. Kid Rock is funny.
Kid Rock can also be a huge asshole.

Speaker 3 And now, look, if putting aside the rock star factor that nobody can just add on to themselves, right? Which also kind of masks up. People tolerate a lot of stuff.
But even forget about that.

Speaker 3 Forget, let's talk about like our friends who that rock star part doesn't really matter much to them. But he can be an asshole.
But his antidote to that is he is funny. He's, he's, He's really funny.

Speaker 3 And that is a counterbalance. And he's not always an asshole.
And he happens to have some of those other traits that you talk about. He is generous.
He's generous with his friends.

Speaker 3 He's generous with his time. He's generous with his money and in being a philanthropist, although he doesn't talk.

Speaker 3 But I think if we're talking about humor, he uses humor really well. Frankly, even Jared, Jared is funnier than most people would think he is because that's not what he portrays.

Speaker 3 His life, what he leads with is not humor. Sometimes, and I would even say that about me, like I don't necessarily lead all the time with humor.
No, you do not.

Speaker 3 Some people might find it surprising that I'm funny or that I think I'm funny.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 I would never describe you as funny,

Speaker 2 but you're humorous. Like you could be, you could be like

Speaker 2 very, I know when you're in a good mood because you're more levity to you, but that's another one, levity. I think when people have levity, but I think the sense of humor to me is such a good one.

Speaker 3 Yeah, you don't need it to be likable, but boy, is it great in your bag of stuff?

Speaker 2 That's a really true tip. Okay, name another one.

Speaker 3 Another trait?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Maybe this is related to funny, but it's not.

Speaker 3 Like, I have a, there's a friend of mine now that he's just fun. He's a guy

Speaker 3 sitting at

Speaker 3 my buddy Joe.

Speaker 2 I don't know if he's talking about it. I know you talk to him all the time.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 So, like, he's a guy that you could

Speaker 3 sit at a table and he'll turn whatever these, these objects into a game, right? He does things like that all the time. And it's silly and it's goofy and it's not like he's just fun.

Speaker 3 He's always looking for fun and he's somebody people gravitate to. He's, by the way, he's a huge pain in the ass, huge.
He's one of the biggest pains in the asses that I know.

Speaker 3 And people tolerate it from they tolerate things from him that they don't tolerate from anybody. I'm talking about, I'm really doxing, you know, I'm doxing my friend, but all my friends would agree.

Speaker 3 We tolerate things from Joe because he's fun to be around. He's fun to be around.
Even if he makes it excruciatingly difficult,

Speaker 3 even to coordinate time with.

Speaker 2 Okay,

Speaker 2 I thought, you know what? I didn't say one that I think is really important is authenticity. I think if someone has authenticity, they're a real person that is automatically likable in a real way.

Speaker 2 Because like what I was going to say earlier was that if you're funny and have a great sense of humor, yeah, like you're super likable to someone maybe on the surface. Like, oh my God, I love them.

Speaker 2 They're so funny. And so like, I would like to hang out with them or like they, I get a kick out of them.

Speaker 2 But like, would I take it a step further and actually want to be really close friends with them? That's like a different level of likability.

Speaker 2 So I think when someone is actually authentic and real, that like makes somebody not just likable, but someone that you really, really want to invest time in and build a friendship and relationship with.

Speaker 3 I think part of it is consistency, right? Like authenticity is kind of akin to consistency. It means that like who they purport to be is who they really are.

Speaker 3 So you're not going to get some random, you know, you're not going to get some volatile personality or some differing personality.

Speaker 3 So you feel more confident investing time in them because you're like, this is the genuine article. This is this person.

Speaker 3 And also it makes you, I think it's part of magnetism, right? People, people gravitate to authenticity and people reward it, right?

Speaker 3 People reward authenticity in a world that's kind of increasingly, you know, Instagram versus reality.

Speaker 2 Phony, exactly. Okay.
So what qualities would you say make someone really unlikable? Besides phoniness?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think phoniness is one of the worst, right? Like, so if people think you're phony, most people are just out. Unless they need you, unless they need you, most people are out.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I think is really a dislikable quality? I think pretentiousness. I think it's such an ugly quality.

Speaker 2 And why there's such a disconnect for me is that like so much of Instagram and social media is based around this like pretense that you have a lot of money, that you have a plane, that you have like this nice nice house when all of these things could be rented by the hour and most people know it.

Speaker 2 And yet they're being applauded for these things. Like I guess the disconnect for me is like this,

Speaker 2 even though

Speaker 2 pretentious people are such an unlikable trait, it's been like glamorized with social media. I don't get it.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 I'm going to play a little devil's advocate because there's not a one-size-fits-all. There are plenty of pretentious people who hang out amongst themselves.
That that's the language they

Speaker 1 use.

Speaker 3 It's like they're peacocking for each other, right? And they're, you know, you know, I would say there's probably country clubs that are like filled with pretentious people.

Speaker 3 And not to paint with a broad brush.

Speaker 1 It's true, though, you're right.

Speaker 2 And they kind of like birds of a feather fly together.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they fly together, right? So, like, then it becomes like, you know.

Speaker 2 Are you pretentious?

Speaker 3 I don't think so. I think, I think I'm not.
I think I'm earnest.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 I poorly need a hot seat with that. No, but look, I think that

Speaker 3 I think that'll, I think I'm misunderstood by a lot of people, but it doesn't, it also, I'm not, I'm not really, it doesn't concern me because it's never slowed.

Speaker 3 I think whatever the composite of what I am is interesting enough for people. I have no shortage of friends, no shortage of opportunities.
And so

Speaker 3 if any of those things are a problem, they're a problem for me and things in my own head rather than an obstacle to anything. But I don't think I'm pretentious.

Speaker 3 I think that, I think that I'm actually quite earnest.

Speaker 3 And, and, you know, I think almost the, what is a sign of being not pretentious, which I, I think is something that I do do constantly, is I'm self-deprecating.

Speaker 3 Back to Jared Leto, he's extremely self-deprecating, and that's disarming to people.

Speaker 2 So, that's okay. So, let's say that.
Let's like leave it with that. Cause I think that's such a good point.

Speaker 2 I think that's a really, that's a really great one, too. Being self-deprecating disarms people.

Speaker 2 So, I guess at the end of the day, what makes somebody likable is their ability to be self-deprecating enough to disarm, or not self-deprecating, sorry, is their ability to be disarming enough.

Speaker 2 Like you could have, basically, you could have any negative quality, but if you are disarming enough, then you can get away with it.

Speaker 3 I go back to what I said before. There are a dozen, maybe there's 20 traits.
And as long as your cocktail tastes good at the end, whatever ingredients you pull in and counterbalance your flaw.

Speaker 3 Look, we all have flaws, we all have things that we don't like about ourselves, maybe other people don't like about us.

Speaker 3 But if you can kind of mix that cocktail in a way that tastes good for people, that's it.

Speaker 3 And it means that you don't, you know, you can have a glaring hole in that list, even in some of the foundational ones.

Speaker 3 If you've got this other trick up your sleeve that you're great at, like, again, the humor, humor, like, almost will cover, like, totally for you, like, almost the funnier you are, and I'm not talking about slapstick or like slip on a banana peel funny like that's not what people value but if you're if you're funny enough that genuinely can make up

Speaker 3 for so many shortcomings and look frankly if you think about comedians comedians who tend to be put me again painting with a broad brushstroke fairly damaged people oh totally i agree like like if you talk to people that that have personal relationships with or romantic relationships with comedians they'll give you chapter and verse about what a nightmare somebody is.

Speaker 3 But being funny as hell covers up for a lot of it.

Speaker 2 1,000%.

Speaker 2 By the way, did you, I think, maybe, I don't know if you knew this or not, but I moved to LA because I got a job to work with a comedy manager because my biggest obsession is like stand-up comedy.

Speaker 2 I love comedy more than anything. I love to laugh.
I love stand-up. And I moved to LA.
I was working with a really big agency, a very well-known one, and a big comedy manager.

Speaker 2 I literally lasted seven days, and that was even too long because the actual business of it and what you really, when you peel, when you peel back the curtain, or you like, you know, you peel back the whatever that is, the onion, whatever, and you see what actually happens in these people's real lives, it's so different than what you think.

Speaker 2 You think because they're hilarious on stage, they're going to be hilarious that, oh my God, and sometimes they are and sometimes they're not. Mostly they're depressed.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, they're not depressed and difficult and

Speaker 2 super neurotic. Yeah.
That I literally was like, like, okay, I'm out. I want to do this as a hobby, as a pastime, but not as a job because of that.

Speaker 3 It's funny if I think back of like one of the things I've missed in my careers that I would have loved to participate in, and it's never too late, but

Speaker 3 is comedy. Like,

Speaker 3 I'm a student of comedy. I like the math of comedy.
I think comedy is math to some extent. I like the,

Speaker 3 I never thought of myself as a

Speaker 3 stand-up comedian. Like, that's not the direction.
I don't think that, but the business of comedy and comedy,

Speaker 2 I'm infatuated with comedy and I've and I've always thought back and said man you could still do it of course yeah yeah I almost I almost joined groundlings late in like a decade like less maybe less than 10 years ago why did you ever do it then I was busy I was busy but yeah you could do it now I suppose I'm busy now too well you'll always be busy I mean this is a whole we're gonna do a whole podcast you know our next podcast is gonna be about comedy yeah or about like missed opportunities missed opportunities yeah I don't even know if it's I don't want to call it a missed opportunity I would just say a road not traveled right like you know i have another a good idea for a podcast for us although i actually started thinking about writing a book about it but really okay well we should do it then yeah okay well lee we got to wrap this because they're supposed to be short solos slash duos so so guys if you are listening to this podcast by the way if you have not subscribed yet to the podcast please do so leave a review that always helps us with uh rankings so i would really appreciate if you can do that and always leave a feedback, comment, whatever, because I'm always very curious to hear what you have to say.

Speaker 2 And thank you. And if you have any suggestions, always leave us, give me a suggestion.
Thank you for being on the podcast.

Speaker 3 Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 And bye.