Episode 471: Lance Armstrong: The Real Doping Story, $100M Loss, and His Venture Capital Comeback

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

Welcome to Habits and Hustle.

And today's guest is one of the most iconic and controversial figures in modern sports history.

Lance Armstrong is a seven-time Tour de France winner, a cancer survivor, and a global name who went from hero to headline and back again.

He dominated the world of cycling, inspired millions with his comeback from cancer, and later faced one of the biggest doping scandals in sports history.

But Lance's story doesn't end there.

In recent years, he's emerged with a new voice as a podcaster, entrepreneur, and an unapologetic truth teller who isn't afraid to tackle tough conversations, including the ones about himself.

In this episode, we talk all about legacy, resilience, reinvention, and what it takes to come back when the world counts you out.

Love him or criticize him, there's no denying Lance Armstrong has lived a life worth unpacking.

So let's get into it.

Enjoy.

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I have Lance Armstrong on the podcast.

It's been a long time coming.

I've been trying to get you on the show

for at least, what, a year and a half?

I think, yeah, a while, at least.

And we've had a lot of like different like run-ins together, which is very

you don't really.

It's true because when I was doing like more research on you, they were kind of like old of like 2023, 2017.

I feel like I stopped doing them.

Well, why?

Do you don't like to, I mean, you get, you probably, we said this earlier, you get asked the same questions over and over again.

And I just, maybe a little of that, but I, I, I just don't love, know that I'm sitting here.

Yeah, I just don't love sitting around talking about myself.

I mean, it's not, you know, and I think, I think they're good for, here we are, again, about to start this thing.

So it's, it's odd, but I think if you're,

say you're an author, right, and you have a new book out, right?

You have have to go do shows and podcasts to promote the book.

Or if you're a band or a singer-songwriter, you might go out to promote the album.

Right.

Like, I don't know.

I live at this point a pretty quiet, simple life that

I don't need to promote anything.

I'm not promoting anything.

Well, then why did you say yes?

Because you're a friend.

And because I harassed you for a long time.

No, no, no, no.

And I mean, it's weird.

Like I did, like I did Steve-O's podcast.

Yeah, I saw that.

Just because I grew up, I didn't know Steve-O, but I grew up watching Jackass and I just thought, well, that's fun.

Right.

So you're doing things more based on like just how, like, in the moment, if you, how you feel, right?

Like, oh, yeah.

I do whatever I want to do.

Right.

That's a good place to be in life.

It's an amazing place to be.

I mean, I only do what I want to do.

So, okay.

So, by the way, so thank you for doing this.

I really appreciate it.

You know, I tell you, I've told you this before.

I'm fascinated by your whole trajectory of life, your personality.

And like, and I don't know you so well, but what I find so interesting, I said this to you before when we were, I was attempting to work out with you.

I had too many questions for you, but, and it was kind of a, you know, it was a half-assed workout because of it.

But you have

a little bit, okay.

But I, I really am a workout person.

I promise you next time we'll do a better job, but I had so many questions.

And the thing is, you have like a real authenticity to you that like you may come across kind of more gruff, but like you, you have a a very like kind

true authentic heart and like you i think you probably it looks to me like you kind of feed off of energy like if you like somebody or you like something you probably are very different in that environment than you are if otherwise right you're exactly right and so right and i choose to be you can't always choose this but i i can at this point i've built it up so that i can choose the room that i'm in normally right of course most of the time and i tend

i choose rooms that have good energy.

So whether that's the people that you're around, the friends that you choose to hang out with,

the types of businesses that you're in,

just whoever's on your team.

I mean, I have teams around me, whether it's on the podcast side or on the investing side.

Like I'm around people on those teams that I want to be around.

Right.

What do you like to do now?

Besides the fact that you have now, you can do whatever the hell you want.

Like you said, you have options.

You don't care, you're the boss.

I've heard you say that before on some podcasts.

It's like, now you're the boss.

Well, that sounds weird.

I mean, I'm my boss.

You're your boss.

Because even when you were, well, let's go back.

Let's go back to Little Lance.

Let's kind of like chronologically do this.

Little Lance.

Because when you were Little Lance, because you were not always,

you weren't, you didn't start off as a cyclist, right?

You started off like you were doing swimming, I heard.

So, yep, swimming was my first serious sport.

Do you still swim?

Occasionally.

It's funny.

I, so when you're my age and you swim seriously, you would swim what they call masters.

Right.

I know masters.

Right.

But most people listening may not know masters.

Masters is it looks like a swim team for old people.

Yeah.

So I grew up swimming with kids.

And so and if you're a serious swimmer at that age, you swim what they call age group swimming.

Right.

So kids, when they're young, they can sort of do the summer country club swim league, which is just in the summer.

or if you swim year-round and you swim more serious you swim age group right so like michael phelps katie ledecki they grew up swimming age group swimming so that means they swam twice a day every day 12 months a year that's how i grew up swimming so then when you get older and you want to be a serious swimmer you swim masters right and so that's when i

like 15 years ago I started swimming again seriously.

And the masters team that I swam with is like two blocks from my house.

I could walk there every day.

Yeah.

And I just, I don't go that often.

And I haven't been in a while, but I can, I still enjoy swimming.

I don't love chlorine.

Yeah, no, I do.

To be honest with you.

Chlorine, you know, if I if I lived at the beach, I would probably swim open water.

I'd probably swim almost every day.

But the chlorine thing and you just kind of.

It kind of steers you away from that.

So my question more was like, okay, so you started off in swimming.

Like, how did you get into cycling?

Was it, did you have, it seems to me like your endurance is off the charts genetically?

Were you tested?

Did you have like, did you, was it just something?

How did you know that cycling was going to be the sport?

You did swimming, which was an endurance thing.

And then I started doing triathlons.

Right.

And then I turned pro in triathlon when I was 15.

Okay.

And so then I knew that I had, I was getting results as a 15-year-old kid racing against 30-year-old men.

Right.

That you didn't need to be in a lab to

know that you had some, that I had the DNA or the talent to be an endurance athlete.

But at that time, I did.

I lived in, I grew up in Dallas.

So I went, I got asked to go be tested at a place in Dallas called the Cooper Clinic, which is pretty well known.

It's a place that it's not dissimilar to Mayo Clinic or other places where folks will go and get tested.

So I went as a, as a young kid.

And the testing, you know, I did a VO2 max test and all these things.

And the physiologist was like, wow, this is, I'm not sure we've seen a VO2 like this before.

So, but again.

Do you remember what it was?

I mean, I'm 53.

That was 40 years ago.

So, no, but it was high.

Yeah, very, I heard it was 86.

I don't know if that was right.

That's what I read.

Who knows?

It's funny.

VO2 is having a moment again.

Like, I feel like,

you know, when we were at that, when I was that age, and then, and then when I was cycling and at the Olympic Training Center, we would test VO2 Max.

And then it kind of,

you know, maybe it was prohibited because you needed all, you needed the lab, you needed the equipment.

And now they've got these mobile units.

And so it's having a moment again.

It is.

And so anyhow, but it's, it's, there's a lot of different variables when it comes to VO2 Max.

But why?

Okay, because another endurance, like when they try, why cycling and not running?

Like, why, why did you single out cycling?

Well, a couple of things.

One, I enjoyed cycling more.

Okay.

That's a good reason.

You wouldn't.

Yeah.

Right.

I mean, if you're, if you have the option to, to, to go for four or five hours and see 80 miles of beautiful terrain versus, in no impact on the body versus, you know, you know, seeing 15 miles of beautiful terrain and a lot of it.

I just, I just, and I was better at cycling.

I quickly figured out that that cycling was my strength.

Now, when I, as a young kid and doing triathlons, I could swim with the front group.

So I would come out of the water with the leaders.

i would come off the bike with the leaders and not they would run away from the the these guys that i would race with would run away from me because they were i mean they're 30 year old men they run a lot faster and so i mean i still would finish top 10 but but i knew that cycling was going to be the best of those of the three so then i started to just gradually transition to cycling and I went to the Olympic Training Center and then I got selected for the junior world championships team, which was in 1989, which was in Moscow, which is kind of wild.

I mean,

this would have been in August of 89

before the wall came down.

Like I was a,

you know, when I was a 17-year-old kid in Moscow.

Like, it was, it was.

That was crazy.

Yeah, like, this is.

And, and so that, that was.

And then pretty much a year or two later, I switched full-time.

How old were you when you won the first first Tour de France?

How old are you?

27 years old.

Your first one was 27.

Yep.

I think that's right.

I'm trying to do the math.

1999.

Yeah, maybe 28, actually.

Geez.

Well, because what's I want to like, how do you train for that?

Because I think people are, you hear it super grueling.

It's like, it's, it's, it's.

That's all true.

I've read it.

It is grueling.

Horrible.

Like, I, people like, you, you, you hear like little rumblings, but people who are not cyclists or who don't follow it, can you describe why it is as grueling as people hear rumors to be?

Like, why is it so and so dangerous on top of that?

It's very dangerous.

And I mean, I think that's the thing that it's obviously an endurance event.

Obviously.

It's three weeks.

It's over 2,000 miles.

It's every day.

There are two rest days, but it's, it's, you know, the, it's, recovery is difficult, but there are 200 guys on the road all trying to be at the same place at the same time.

So you're not just, and of course, we are on a team.

We had, in my generation, we had nine riders on the team.

So we're racing against 190 other people.

It's, it's hard to control that.

And, you know, the roads are technical.

There's crashes.

There's mechanicals.

And so it's a, there's a lot.

Like it's a mix of endurance.

sort of NASCAR because you're fighting for position all the time.

Strategy, politics, right?

Since you have to, the politics piece, when you think about it, if you're nine guys trying to control 200,

you have to be political.

You can't, no team can control that.

You're constantly trying to find allies and friends in that Peloton.

And those people that are your allies and friends on day two might be your enemies on day eight.

Wow.

So you're constantly trying to figure out the dynamics of this, this living thing that's going down the road known as the Peloton.

And so like, what's the trait?

Like, how do you train for that?

Like, what's the training schedule?

Like, how do you, because it takes a very particular mindset person to be able to even go through the grueling training schedule.

Like, do you remember what you did day in, day out?

I mean, well, first of all, there's a lot of racing beforehand.

Okay.

So it's not.

You don't just show up to the tour and say, I've trained perfectly.

I mean, we would do

anywhere from 40 to 60 race days before that.

And then

obviously a lot of training, a lot of reconnaissance.

Do you have to do weight training?

Cause you have to be like skinny, right?

Like very small.

Not a ton of strength training.

So what do you, is it all endurance training?

Like, do you do, do you, did you do like mental mindset tricks?

And do you have like, how do you psychologically prepare for that?

Like, what, is there anything on that side?

No.

No, I mean, we, we, other than being convinced I was going to win.

Like, no, exactly.

But you have to believe, your belief system on yourself has to be so strong, like that you, that you actually believe that you can actually.

Yeah.

I mean, not the first couple, but after I got a couple under my belt, I was, I was pretty sure we were.

I mean, look, anything can happen.

You can have all these things I described, accidents, illnesses, bad luck or just bad luck, you know, caught out in a crosswind, lose five minutes.

I mean, this can

what made you, like, I guess what made you so much, like, this is the thing, okay?

So I'm going to not beat around the bush, obviously.

Like, why is it that everybody on the tour, like I, you got caught for doping, but everybody was doing it, right?

So, like, the playing field right away.

Technically, I didn't get caught, but

that's another discussion.

That's a whole other discussion.

But my point, my first

certainly exposed, but not caught.

That's true.

If that makes sense.

No, explain it.

I mean,

because for people who don't, like, who are not familiar with like my, of course, I know, but people who are like younger, who are listening who don't really know all the details of minutiae people would just say yeah lance harmstrong got caught for doping right which is that's fine too i mean that's that's if that's if if that's sort of the story that or the storyline that is that has survived then then that that's that's fair too but what i was just and i was just half joking.

I mean, being caught, being caught, we obviously were tested every day.

Right, right, right.

So being caught would be like you tested positive.

I mean, there was none of that.

It was, It was way more complicated.

It was more of a legal process.

Yes.

It was a success of the legal system and not a success of the anti-doping system.

But why do you think that you were made to be such a poster child?

Like people, everybody was, my point was it's so grueling.

It's so horrible.

I feel like it seems to me the baseline was everybody was doing it and you still were in that baseline so much better and exceeded everybody else.

Yeah, I don't, I don't, I think that's right.

And I I think that that's not a popular answer, but the popular answer isn't an informed answer.

Right.

The informed answer is,

and this is, you know, I've talked a little about this in the past.

The only people that matter, the only people that matter are the people who were in the race.

That's it.

In my opinion, that's all I care about.

Now, if 90% of them were yelling and screaming, you know, you know, lynch this guy, then that would suck.

But the reality reality is 0% of them have said that.

So

they're all that matter, right?

The people who were in the war and in the battles and in the trenches and in the fights and were head-to-head, that's all that matters, right?

And so, like, what would be the one thing that you wish people knew that hasn't really, that people don't realize or don't know?

If there's like one piece of information that's been very misbranded in the, in the media, what would it be?

I mean,

look,

there's, I'm not going to get into

the details of it because I've moved on with my life and

I feel like I've done a decent job moving on with my life.

What I will say is that there were a few things as this legal process played out to sort of reinforce and really to dance on my grave.

There were three or four taglines and PR statements made that just weren't true, right?

And so that's, but whatever.

I mean, it, it, that's what those agencies chose to do.

And they're not, they're, they're simply not true.

And

the, again, if, if,

time

tells the true story here.

And

I'll just give an example, right?

So if somebody says that guy right there, pointing to me, that's the biggest fraud in the history of sport.

I mean, come on.

That's, that's easy to say at the time.

That feels good for the other side to say, I'm sorry, that is not true right and and i know that my competitors know that my teammates know that the people that i race as a 15 year old professional triathlete know that the people that i race as a 53 year old high rocks athlete know that so that that's just the they're just jerking themselves off but hey no i think that's uh i think i think it's because i think also the biggest and best people love to see that person fall right and then rebuild like someone like you because you've had like between that as gonna

i don't think they considered the rebuild i mean i don't i think i think i meant what i said when you dance on somebody's grave they're in the grave that's true and that's what they did and that's that's but but that that i wasn't going to stay in the grave Well, also, you know, it's interesting.

I said this to you before.

It's like you, you were such, you were probably such a low place, but it didn't ever, it never really, it didn't seem like you ever got it didn't take you into a bad place.

I feel like you kept on succeeding over and over in other areas of life.

Yeah, but it's been look, it's been 12, 13 years.

That's a long time.

So, so I had time.

I didn't have time to

be a professional athlete again, right?

Time was up for me.

I was 40 years old and was banned in cycling, but I had time to be patient and to reimagine, reassess, reinvent, re-emerge in whatever way.

So I had time for that.

But there was a long period, and I say long, I mean five, five-ish years where I was just patient and I just watched and waited and

did all the things I just laid out, right?

Primarily reimagining and reassessing.

But even like you get cancer at 25 years old, right?

And like your doc, I read that your doctor gave you like basically 20% chance of living.

Right.

And you're, you, you were that, that little amount, you were able to, you know, against all odds, beat that and then go on again to win.

Like that to me says something about like your, your brain and your mindset and your will, I guess, overall the will is what I, was what I'm so fascinated by.

Like, is that something that is just so innate in you?

Like it, nothing can like, you're uns like it seems like you're actually are, like you are like unstoppable.

Is that something that you trained for are you just born like that like can people become that if they're not that way because you just are who you are right i mean

look i i i

maybe i mean that's that that's all sounds good um but yeah but how do you like you and then you went to win again and you like but even i i think I think some people are just better equipped.

I was equipped to not quit, right?

And so I didn't quit when I was diagnosed and I fought for my life and I got my life back and then I fought to win the tours and then and then that got that story got edited.

Well tell me about how how did you even get how did were you able to ever train like that again?

Never mind like people can't people who are the healthiest as ever can I can't even imagine like cycling like around the block 40 times.

How do you win the body comes back to that level?

Like your cancer was all over your body, right?

Like you yeah, but then the cancer I mean you clearly clearly, but I also, I was racing sick probably, I don't know for how long, but, but long enough to,

in my mind, I thought, well, God, I've been sick for, I mean, I did the Olympics in Atlanta two months before I was diagnosed.

I know it's true.

So a part of me, part of me, if you're, and, and, and, and I'm just, I was just telling myself this, but I was like, wow, I've been sick for a long time.

Like, just imagine.

When I get healthy and I get all of this stuff out of my body, wow, like I'm going to be super badass then.

Now, I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I was telling myself.

And so, did you do a lot of self-talk?

Like, I want to know like the intricacies.

Like, do you have to, do you talk to yourself to like push you?

Do you like, what's your narrative?

Like, what do you, what goes on in your brain?

Like, is there a narrative?

Is there like something you're saying?

I don't push myself.

It's been a minute since I've pushed myself.

Like back then.

We trained a lot and pushed ourselves a lot.

And I don't do that anymore.

So it's.

But you kind of like, you still are training daily.

Yeah, but not like that.

I'm just I'm just I mean I do it depends if I if I ride my bike those that takes longer but if if I train in the gym or go for a run I mean it's an hour a day.

It's not you know it's no I know it's not but what I'm saying like okay after you when you got diagnosed with cancer and then you beat cancer what was the process to get back to be like a champion again?

Like what did you do?

What was the what was the mental I just went straight back to it didn't even no I went I mean I took a year off i took the year i i was all of 1997 i didn't race so then i i just but when i went back i straight back in my my question is i think that people like are well this is what i want to know is like what i you just overall like if you are succeeding in a lot to different areas like business you've become like a rock star and like with with next ventures the the cycling like it seems like everything that you do,

there is like a massive level of success.

Okay.

So to me, that's, that is indicative of someone's like mindset and will and determination and ambition and all these things, right?

My question is really not even a question, but is that just something you've always been like, that's just who you are?

And that's just how you like, how does somebody, is there like, is there like actionable things that people can do to become better that way?

I mean, look, I grew up in a, in a, with a, a mother, a single mother, more or less a single mother that had me very young.

And

she overcame a lot of odds, different than my obstacles.

And she wasn't an athlete, but she just didn't, she never quit.

Like she was constantly

just trying to defy the odds, right?

Whether it's, you know, having a kid at 17 years old in Dallas, Texas, right?

With, you know, with no, obviously, obviously she was in a relationship, but had never met my father.

I said, but this was not an ideal situation, but she didn't care.

I mean, she just, she was dead set on having me.

And, and, uh, you know, we grew up poor.

And

I say grew up poor.

I mean, we didn't grow up.

We, at that time, we were very poor.

Um, then she remarried, and that relationship wasn't perfect, and, but she stuck, you know, she just, she's just, she's tough.

She has grit.

She's overcome a lot.

I do think that, that you either that's just a part of my DNA, but I've also absorbed a lot of that just by having watched her as I grew up and we grew up together, right?

Keep in mind, my mom was 34 years old when I graduated high school.

Wow.

Wow.

So I think there's a lot of that.

I mean, if I look back to my diagnosis and if I look back to the last decade, I attribute a lot of that to my mother, right?

Who overcame a lot of long odds, you know, to build a life for herself and to build a life for me.

Would you say, what would be the one thing that people don't know about you?

Was there something that you would say?

I think when people get to know me, I'm a lot goofier than people.

Like, I don't take myself, I take myself seriously, but most of the time, I do not take myself very seriously.

So, it's like a good example, right?

Is obviously my kids know me, right?

They're like, my dad is, is, is a goofball.

Would they say that about you?

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

But my, but their friends

would be like, oh my God, you're, you know, and then they get around

their friend's father who's me and they're like wow This that's not what I expected like this guy's is a goofy

I totally know what you mean like I'm way more playful and you don't take yourself seriously you're much more like you have like you're not so serious all the time and I think that's you know, there was this

and it is true.

I mean it when we trained and of course back then you know, when I was winning the tours, there wasn't social media.

So people's personalities, let's just say that, I mean, I was doing goofy shit all the time back then.

But now, if you, if that athlete, you would be capturing that and sort of putting that out to the world, whereas nobody had it, nobody had access to us.

Like, we were in a hotel or in a team bus or in the race or not available, right?

Right.

There was no access.

So, speaking of children, oh my God, what does she want?

You can ask her, we could just edit that part out of it.

All right, watch this.

Okay.

Yes.

What's What's up?

Are you raising your hand?

Yeah.

That's hello.

Olivia, let me ask you a question.

Ask her.

Yeah.

Is your dad goofy?

On occasion.

On occasion.

What would be the one thing that people don't know or would ever think that your dad was like?

I'm in the middle of a podcast, so you're actually on the podcast right now and you're on my watch.

Yeah.

Which is slightly awkward.

What's the question?

What is the one thing that people don't know about your dad?

I want you for

all right.

I got to go.

I'll call you later.

We're keeping that in there.

We're keeping that in there.

I love you.

Love you.

Bye.

I can't lie.

That's 100% keeping that in there.

I'm very proud of my fart prowess.

It's a thing.

I don't know.

She's right.

Do you eat a lot of like coniferous vegetables?

I don't know.

No, I don't.

Do you have gut problems?

I don't know.

I just know.

But anyways, that's that's that's funny she said that it's true

that is true that's true that's the biggest i'm sort of a world world champ when it comes to to that really so you're a world champ in a lot of different areas that's hilarious

i'm not an olivia called that's the 14 year old she's um no actually 15 year old wait how old is olivia not 14.

so then that's so funny what would your 17 year old say same thing that you're like a champion farter yeah he would he's 15 almost 16.

oh he's 15

He would,

yeah, he probably said the same thing.

Because you've been, because they,

you, this happened, like your whole, the downfall, so to speak, happened like, what, 15 years ago, you said, like 13, 12, 13 years ago.

12, 13.

How did it, like, did it soften you?

Did you become more playful because you, is that what you're saying?

I was always playful.

You were always this way.

So, how did this, how did what happened to you with the doping change your personality?

Or did it change your personality?

Did you become much more, much more, was there more humility because of it?

Or did you lose a lot of friends?

So then you had to like kind of pivot and look, I don't, I think you lose, I certainly know you lose a piece of the following and anybody in that situation would.

And anybody in that situation would lose a part of the team, right?

So the parts of the team that were there because it was their job to be there, right?

Whether that's an agent, a business manager, a publisher, whatever, you know, people that have jobs because of this machine, right?

Which, which was me.

When that machine goes from 100 miles an hour to zero, there's,

it's not a business anymore.

So those people then, so that, that part of my life went away, which is, is to be expected, right?

I mean, you're going to, you're going to lose people like that.

So, but people that, I mean, I didn't have anybody who I would have sworn was a great, amazing, true friend that I lost.

Like all the people that, that, I loved and I would have called in the darkest moments, they're still there.

I mean, they stayed.

And so now, you know, there was obviously the situation with Livestrong, which

did go away.

Right.

But you started.

Can you talk about that a little bit?

Because, I mean, you did raise, because of you, there was like a five, was it $500 million, $700 million?

What was it?

Well, yeah, at the time, $500 million was raised.

And it was, who thought of those yellow bands?

Nike thought of the yellow wristband.

And so, and fun, fun fact, my partner at Next Ventures, Mel Strong, was on, she worked at Nike at the time and was part of that original team that

had this crazy idea, which there's still some debate on whose actual idea it was because it turned out to be an amazing idea.

Yeah.

But so just wild to be totally reunited with her and having been her partner the last six years.

But yeah, so that, right.

I mean, just to answer the, I mean, I, I started the organization when

when I was diagnosed.

So and then obviously, yeah, I mean, that was in 1996.

It was

fueled by

two things.

One, I mean, if I was diagnosed in 96, we were officially a 501c3 in 1997.

I won the Tour de France in 1999.

Right.

So this, that's the first

sort of call it tipping point.

Right.

And then and but then the organization continued to grow.

And then the yellow wristband came in 2004, right?

And we sold 82 million of those in a fairly short amount of time.

I used to wear one.

Yeah.

So it,

but, but that was, that was, you know, if there was, if, and I considered it a friend, right?

I considered the organization and the movement a friend of mine.

And that friend went away, right?

Yeah.

Because that friend chose to go away.

It's too bad because it was a great thing.

I mean, yeah, well, it's still a thing.

Is it though?

Like, I don't really hear about it or see it or is it really a thing?

Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

So I mean, obviously, you don't have a relationship with Nike, of course.

No, but yet.

I mean, yes and no.

I don't.

I don't.

I'm not a sponsored athlete.

Mel is no longer at Nike.

Obviously, she's full-time.

What did she do at Nike when she was at Nike?

The better question is, what did she not do?

Oh, really?

She was there almost 20 years and worked her way up.

She ran a ton of businesses there.

She's, she's a force of nature, but that's a whole separate podcast.

Like, she's, you should have her on your business.

That's actually very interesting.

She's a force of nature.

So,

does that mean, by the way, Nex is only six years old?

Because you said she's your partner for the last six years.

That's right.

So, you started Nex with Mel?

Yep.

Okay.

And so, obviously, the relationship with Nike was pretty good if you became partners with one of the

head executives.

Yeah, she had decided to leave Nike.

But I still have, I mean, I'm still very close to Phil Knight, the CEO of the business as of nine months ago was Elliot Hill, who before he went back to Nike to take that job, lived in Austin.

I've known him,

grew up in Austin, Texas kid.

I consider him a dear friend.

So I still have a relationship through that,

but

I don't wear the swoosh.

Well, yeah.

And also, but also, though, you're not even an athlete.

You're not like a professional athlete anyway.

Yeah, I mean, you're going to, yeah.

That's not.

So then how did it go from, okay, so then that's with Livestrong and all of that, Mel became like, so how did you kind of ricochet into the venture area?

Like, were you always interested in like CPG brands or

business?

Tended towards consumer brands.

Okay.

Right.

So we're drinking water water.

Like that's one, for example.

Is this one of your brands?

Yeah.

I love Waterloo, actually.

It's really good.

That's right.

It's one of my favorite types of good.

Yeah, this is very good.

Yeah, when do you guys invest?

At what stage?

Well, these, these I just did personally before Next Venture.

So I did Waterloo before that.

I did athletic brewing before that.

I did Honey Stinger before that.

I did just that's just on your own before you even started actual.

So we raised fund one,

it's technically a 2019 vintage.

So we fully deployed the first fund and now almost done raising our second fund.

And, you know,

that is, there has been some consumer exposure there, but less and less.

I still have a soft spot for it, but that's

there are funds that focus exclusively on consumer and they're great at it.

Right.

And not that we wouldn't do consumer, but we just do less now.

What do you do more of now?

We do more.

It's

we define investing in, if you think about health and you think about investing in health and you can look at it in a simple way, really two ways, upstream care, downstream care, right?

So preventative care and more sick care.

Yeah.

We will dabble in both of those and I'll give you examples, right?

So we did a point of care diagnostics company and fund one called Vital Bio.

So lab testing in the doctor's office, very fast results.

Sounds an awful lot like another story that this world has heard before, but this one works.

We explore a lot of opportunities.

Oh, yeah, it sounds very familiar.

Right.

So it without naming anything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We explore opportunities in and around Medicare, Medicaid.

But at the same time, we did Outside Inc.

We did a really cool, our last investment in Fund One, because you're so passionate about this space.

You probably know about it.

We were talking about Stacey Sims earlier.

She does work with a company called Eternal.

So that was our 21st and last deal out of Fund One.

So however you define Eternal, an optimization, a health play,

there's a lot of that.

So are you like a big, are you, do you like, but let me just finish on Eternal.

So I mean,

the thing I love about Eternal, other than just believing that society has fundamentally shifted their views on health, I do believe that.

I believe, and I live that.

I love backing exceptional founders.

And Alex Mather, who started Eternal and has been successful many times over, is just a guy you wouldn't bet against.

So

what was your, you were going through?

No, no, I was going to say, like, are you someone who's like, are you really into like longevity and biohacking?

Like, do you kind of like gravitate to that stuff?

I don't, probably not.

Okay, so I'm not opposed to that, but, but you were at, I mean, I have a gym at my house.

Right.

But I don't have a cold plunge.

I don't have a sauna yet, although we're getting those.

I was going to say, do you like that kind of thing?

Yeah, I would do.

I don't like cold, but the sauna I would do every day.

So that's that's, but I'm not,

I don't, I don't invest a lot of time in all these things that you read about or see on TikTok or Instagram.

Like, do you think a lot of it's just a bunch of nonsense?

And be honest.

I think lifestyle is the biggest factor.

Right.

Like, what was the, what would you say the number one core

or the keystone habit is for someone to be optimally at their best?

Well, sleep's an obvious answer.

Okay.

But not every, there are people that are just really challenged by sleep and they try different things and different hacks.

And it's very hard to get that right.

But I've been blessed my entire life to be an incredible sleeper.

Like I, I just, I can sleep.

Really?

Yeah, I can sleep.

I could lay down right here, right now, go to sleep.

It's so weird.

Yeah.

My wife hates you.

Yeah, I hate you too and and i think you know and i'm my diet is not great but getting better um what do you eat what kind of stuff do you eat i eat whatever i want to eat

although i remember that because i went to see kill we went to see kill tony and you had like four of these like gross like hot dogs that they had in that room and probably diet coke yeah you have like just like nonsense but what i find to be i like super ironic five years ago i would have had you know 10 cocktails you would but but but the interesting thing is like the people i know who are at like the most most elite, elite, high-performance people, like, truly who are, are like you.

They're not so into the longevity and all the biohacking stuff.

They're not doing the cold plunges and the saunas and like the glucose monitoring and they're not eating like by the way.

I'm not knocking

those things.

It's not because I'm not even saying it as a knock.

I'm just saying, like, it's just not part of their daily rituals, right?

They're like you.

They like eat whatever they want.

They kind of just.

I mean, take CGMs, for example.

You just mentioned it, right?

The glucose monitor there's no scenario where i would wear that 365 days a year yeah there is a very real scenario where i would wear that for three weeks twice a year absolutely and i would love that okay so you get in you know

first time you're gonna learn a lot you're gonna learn about your habits and your lifestyle and your diet and how they impact these things.

You're gonna see, you're gonna learn quickly if you're paying attention.

Yeah.

And then you're going to get out.

I would get out.

And then, you know, six months later, go back and check in again and kind of relearn and refresh.

I love that, right?

But there's no world where that lives in my arm year-round.

Yeah.

Well, also, it's for people who are like legitimately who are diabetic.

I mean, that's the difference.

That's the difference.

But I'm saying all of this stuff has gone just a little bit too far, right?

Like, I think that where does it end?

I think it's become a massive business, right?

It's like a trillion-dollar business.

Everyone wants to know exactly.

This is an area that you should really be thinking about.

That's why I told you to come with me to the conference tomorrow, because I feel like there's not like a, I'm not going to say a sucker is born every day, but I think that people are chasing youth and

people want to live to 180 and any little thing that you think might, but there's no regulation on anything.

You could be, it could be all a bunch of snails.

A lot of these things really are not moving the needle that much, right?

Maybe if you don't have your diet and your exercise exercise and the basics and the fun like fundamentals down yeah these things are not going to move your needle yeah but you know it's better that people are engaged or aware of it yeah but if you're if you could take 170 supplements but if you're not exercising and moving your body daily yeah like with so well i would hope i would hope that in in conjunction with the 170 supplements they would go move a little bit.

Okay.

There's no substitute for that.

There's no substitute for that, right?

Okay.

That's my

and physically and also i think um mentally i mean i think there's i know i would go crazy literally go crazy if i didn't work out me too like i would be i would i don't know what i would be be bad well because you probably does have you found anything beside does anything besides cycling get your no brain to turn yeah no right because it's the endorphins from i don't know it's just what it's uh that's my church yeah well do you like to be alone a lot i'm obsessed with being alone.

Yeah.

I love being alone.

Because you spend a lot of time alone.

If you're on a bike for hours and hours training a day, right?

That's like people like ultra marathoners.

I preferred to ride alone now.

There are a lot of times I would ride with other people.

And if I ride now, I will mostly ride with other people.

But there are plenty of times I get to ride by myself.

And it's just sacred.

I love it.

But I also just like being alone.

Like, I'll give you an example.

Like, I'm in a,

I don't know what the date is.

This is probably two weeks from now.

We spend the summers in Colorado.

I will, when we take our cars up there, and so I'm going to drive my car there all alone.

Straight shot, thousand miles, all alone.

And it's, it's, I'm not, Jen, I'm not shitting you.

It's like, it is my favorite day of the year.

I love it.

I love that.

I'm talking about it right now.

I'm like, wow, that's right around the corner.

I love it.

So you're married for 17 years?

Yeah.

Okay.

So you spend a lot of like what?

We haven't been married that long, but we've been

together a long, long time.

And what would she say?

What would your wife say about you and your, you know, your love for being alone?

I think

she would agree and she would, she'd support it.

Does she like to be alone too?

Not as much as you?

Probably not as much as,

I mean,

not as much as me.

I probably like to be alone more than most people.

Yeah.

I mean, because you...

I've been around so many people my whole life and I'm still around a lot of people.

And I don't,

I, when you're younger, I think you're better equipped to just sort of deal with it.

As I've gotten older, I now know that I have to stop and I have to carve out time to be by myself and just reset this whole thing and calm everything down.

I just, and, and I get to.

Right.

I get to create my schedule.

And so I will intentionally intentionally make sure that I have that time.

So how do you spend your time?

Like, give me a- I can't imagine being miserable being alone.

Now, there are a lot of people that can't be alone.

Right.

And that's fine.

That's, that's the way they're wired.

And I can't imagine that.

So, how much, okay, so like a day in the life, right?

Let's just go through a day in the life.

Like, what would a day, a typical day be?

I get up very early.

What time do you get up?

I mean, I get up, not very early.

I mean, I get up today.

I got up at 5.30.

Okay, that's very early, by the way.

Okay.

I mean, there are people who get up, but I'm just, I am an early riser, but I'm also guaranteed

to be alone.

Right.

Exactly.

So I get up early and I have probably a couple of hours where

you're all alone.

What do I do?

I drink coffee.

I read the news.

Are you a big reader?

I don't read books, but I read, I read a lot.

I mean, I read news slash current events.

I read stuff relevant to our space and whether it's, you know, I read a lot of newsletters.

I'm pretty religious about, you know, reading Axios and Strictly BC and a lot of these, I mean, I think you learn, you just got to keep a pulse on thing.

I think also Fit Insider.

I think they do a great job.

That's a good idea.

They do a good job.

I agree.

That's once a week.

So you don't have to, but the other ones are daily.

But if I subscribe to a newsletter, I read every word.

And if, and if I find myself just skipping it or deleting it for a few days in a row, I'll just unsubscribe.

Like it's not, it, it's not sticking with me.

Do you read my newsletter?

I'm not.

Yeah, I have

to

go okay, good.

And if you don't like it, you could always just unsubscribe.

Yeah.

Okay.

I mean, I think that's the healthy thing.

Okay, go on.

So 5.30, 7.30, you're reading the news and all that stuff.

It just depends.

I mean, if

my daughter's now out of school, summer started for her, so I would take her to school at 8.

And then I have to work out in the morning because my motivation drops in the afternoon.

And then I'll, you know, I'll come here to the office and work.

And so you work out for an hour, you said in the morning?

Yeah.

If I ride, nobody rides.

I mean, I wouldn't ride for an hour.

It's not worth getting dressed for, but I would, you know, how long would you ride for?

Two or two hours.

I could ride for more, but

then that's more time.

That's too much.

Yeah, so then you okay, and then what?

You come to you you work every day at the office?

I work here every day.

So do you spend most of your time when you're at the office doing your venture stuff?

Most I spend 90% of my time on Next Ventures.

And are are you picking the companies that you are like interested in?

Are people bringing you deals?

All the above.

And we either source through, there's obviously inbound

and then there's outbound.

We will hunt for deals.

Our founders networked, our existing founders have a, have a, we like to think, a great network.

Other VCs have have bring us deals.

So it's all over the place.

And then, and then in terms of who decides, it's not me that decides.

It's we decide, right?

So we, me and Mel, who I've talked about, and Jordan, who's been on the team for years,

it's a three-person team.

So we will ultimately decide, not so much if we want to spend time on a deal, because it takes time to, you have to decide to diligence a deal, but we collectively, we're the IC.

So we will decide if we do the deal.

And

okay, so then

what's we do?

Because I see outside the world.

We do is the podcast.

Okay, it's just, but do you, we do hard things?

Is that like do we do whatever?

It's just the podcast.

Yep.

Okay.

I thought it was going to be like a, there was another, I thought that was an umbrella, and then you're going to have other things.

I mean, we do other, we have merch and we have

it, it,

it could probably be a lot of things.

Because I like the name.

It's very good.

It's a cool name.

Yeah.

Did you think of that name?

You know, no.

I mean, well, the idea behind the name of we do, like, who wants to do crazy hard stuff.

Yeah.

Or like like we do anything that's why it's it's a great brand name because you can like add whatever to the end of the sentence right but we do podcasts we could do i just i i have to admit i got a little lazy with it i'm not lazy because we still do the podcast but like you couldn't next

requires and as it should require 90 of my attention the podcasts are for the most part easy right like take the tour podcast for example like that's that's you know that's uh

we're talking about the day's action, right?

So, that's we sit down and we watch the race, we sit down and we talk about it, and that show's huge.

So, we've sort of been spoiled by the success of the tour show.

So, it's not like we sat around and are trying to be creative or entrepreneurial with that brand.

So, you get the most,

you're the most passionate, though, about next ventures, it feels like, right?

I'm passionate about both of them, but it's,

I think it's, um, look, we have, I don't know, a 100 LPs, right?

So that's, which is great.

But what that means is they have trusted us with their hard-earned money.

Yeah, 100%.

So that's a serious commitment.

So that, that, I spend, that's why I spend most of my time on that.

Were you always interested in business like this when you were like an athlete also, or did you have to do that?

Not to this degree, but I mean, a lot of these deals I did, you know, very early on.

I mean, I was the very first, for example, I was the first check into Active.com in 1997.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So tell people what that is, because I don't think a lot of people would know what Active is.

Well, now they would.

I mean, Active.com is an event registry.

I don't even know.

I haven't gone and looked in a while if people still register events on Active.com.

Probably not.

But at the time, it was a big deal.

At the time, it was a big deal, right?

But I knew the founder and liked him and wanted to support him.

But that's any, my point being, that was a long time ago.

So name other ones that you were like kind of like first in on that were big money makers for you?

Direct investments.

I mean, obviously athletic brewing is

between Waterloo and athletic brewing, those would be.

I thought you were involved in like Aura Ring and stuff like that.

Aura is a part of our fund.

So in fund one,

we were an early investor in Aura Ring.

Okay.

What do you think about wearables?

Is that an aura ring right there?

It's an aura ring.

Like, do you feel like it's kind of like, I feel there's now now backlash a little bit on where?

That's because you read the article in the New York Times last week.

I did, but I also know that you can't, but just because no, that's not why, though.

That's not why.

No, by the way, I think your article is totally fair.

Like, if my wife is a good example, like, she's a bad sleeper.

So now she has a device that's that's very accurate that is just confirming daily that you're a bad sleeper.

That you're a bad sleeve.

Exactly.

So there, there is

a natural sort of just anxiety around that and you get more anxiety like i i was i mean i i

i don't know i mean that's she goes through phases she will she's now wears the ring daily but she's she's gone through phases where she's like all right i'm sick of this i don't want to look at this data anymore i'm not going to wear it for a while Well, I also think what the anxiety piece is real, right?

Like if you're constantly looking to see if I'm sleeping well, not sleeping well, how many steps I'm all of that, like all that noise is actually causing more issues versus less.

By the way, it's not just the farting.

I think you have like burping too.

I think you drink.

This is the waterloo.

Are you sure?

Like, I think you should keep it.

Waterloo is very carbonated.

Waterloo.

I did.

I did.

I did a whole.

Maybe you're allergic to something.

Maybe you have like a gut.

Are you not drinking?

I am.

You're going off

topic here.

This is very carbonated.

It is carbonated, but I feel you're having an issue.

Like, we should probably take a break because you're having like, okay, well, I'm just making sure.

Okay.

How much time do we have left?

Listen, excuse me.

I haven't even started all my questions.

That was just me like trying to get to know you a little bit.

We have to, we have to be done in eight minutes.

Are you joking me right now?

This is a joke.

I mean, I didn't even get to all the

this is what we'll do.

This will be part one.

Yeah, that's like you're just kind of placating me.

And then when, when, when will be part two in two, in 2034?

Like, I have lots of questions.

That'll be amazing.

Yeah, but I mean, if you would, I would, I would allow it to happen if you'll do part two in the next six months.

Okay.

I got to leave in 10 minutes.

Okay, so I have to.

I want to do a question.

Okay.

Let's play the question game.

Okay, well, wait, you just kind of like got me off track.

I had all these things to ask you.

These questions have been amazing.

Okay, well, that's very nice of you.

I had a whole lot of other questions, and I just lost my page, which is not exactly wonderful.

But hold on a second here.

Well, wait, I'll just go.

Okay, so let me go back to, okay, so because I can't.

be bothered now i'm getting nervous because i only have seven minutes on the clock with you um and that gets me all like scared here.

Okay.

So

for Clement.

Okay.

So how else are you, I want to get to the money part because I think this is what I'm curious.

So when this whole thing happened with the doping and you had to give back all these things, you must have had like a crash of money.

Like your sponsors were pulling out all these things.

By that point, you already made a lot of money, right?

So it wasn't like you had to give back.

Well, you didn't have to give back money.

I did have to give back money.

Well, I heard that, but I didn't know if that was actually true.

You had to actually write checks back to the people.

Not so much to sponsors,

but there were, I mean, this gets really complicated, but

my audience is very smart, Lance.

So if you lose a sponsor, you just lose future revenue.

Right.

So it just stops.

So, but you could count that as some sort of loss.

But there were other, the way that my team had structured most of my bonuses and salary

were through insurance policies.

Okay, you're right.

This is complicated.

And so

they were

either they didn't have the budget to fulfill the contract or meet the contract, or for whatever reason, they were just engineering it that way.

And so when it went down, then the insurance companies came and said, we want the money back.

So yes, I had to pay it back.

So did you have, were you interested?

Quite a lot of it.

How much did you have to give back?

A lot.

I mean, the, the, the,

people like details.

This is a thing.

You know, more More than tens and tens of millions.

More than 100 million.

If you factor the repayments

with

whatever guaranteed contracts were in place that you could have just assumed would have, you would have fulfilled, it was north of 100 million bucks.

Holy moly.

And so.

But hey.

That in itself would drive me into a depression.

You don't know that it's that number at the time.

So

I didn't know if somebody would have walked up and said, hey, no, you're having a shitty day, but by the way, this is exactly what this is going to cost you.

Of course, it would have driven me crazy.

But

it was death by a thousand cuts.

And so, but over, whatever.

I mean, over time, I was able to navigate it.

And I had made great investments.

And obviously, things like Uber.

See, Uber.

That's another one.

But I had access to Uber through a fund.

So I was an LP in lowercase, which

if you look at the record books, I mean, it was the the most successful venture fund in the history of the world.

And, and, you know, by the grace of God, you know, I had access to that and

that, that changed everything.

Everything.

Everything.

Right.

So you, because of that,

saved my family.

100%.

No, I'm, that's not an,

I meant that.

So, wow.

So then how were you then making money?

Like, what was the first way of making money after that?

Wasn't sponsors.

Did you give back the money?

Of course, these, these investments.

Were you like someone who people like, were you doing a lot of speaking gigs?

Cause people were super curious.

No,

that dried up.

I mean, that's back,

you know, I wouldn't say with a vengeance, but I do a lot of speaking now.

But no, that I couldn't.

No, there was no speaking gigs.

Oh, because I would think if I was a company, I would resilience is a major topic, right?

Yeah, but I think that would be a good idea.

But the resilience story,

it's, it's a story now because people, and this is the story they like to hear is, is,

I mean, if it's the first two, three, four, five years, you're, you haven't proven that you've

are resilient or have been able to re-emerge or reimagine, right?

And so now that's the story that people love to hear.

But at the time, I mean, I was, you just had cooties, right?

And so they wouldn't.

That's true, right?

But, but also, I think there's also like, you know, there's an accident you want to look.

Like people are curious about like where someone is.

Well, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't get any calls.

But the resilient piece is massive.

I do feel you're having an up, like, like an uptick right now.

I don't know if it's because of social media or what, but I feel there's a lot of like, there's more curiosity about you.

Also, don't forget our Netflix special that we did together.

Our 30 for 30.

Yeah, I'm so glad you did that for me.

You're welcome.

You know, it's interesting.

It's a fun data point because it wasn't a Netflix documentary.

I know.

Just for people to know, so Lance did a 30 for 30.

I'm kind of half kidding, but long story short, I should have started the podcast by saying this.

Lance and I have a mutual friend, Eric Burns.

So shout out to Eric, who introduced us many years ago.

I had

an amazing guy.

I had a breast cancer charity with my best friend, Nikki Austin, for many years where we auctioned off bachelors and all the money we got for dinner dates and all the money we got we gave to breast cancer.

And every year we had a celebrity host or someone to be involved.

Eric suggested Lance many years ago to be involved because of his situation with cancer.

Long story short, he did it as a favor on like not, he didn't want to do it, but he did it as a favor to Eric.

We met briefly at the thing.

30 for 30, ESPN was doing a story on Lance.

They came to the event.

They interviewed me.

Cut to the 30 for 30.

Go on.

Yeah.

Well, it was released as a 30 for 30 on ESPN.

Yeah.

But that was,

I mean, it came out five or six years ago.

Five years ago.

Yeah, five years ago.

And I didn't know that it was going to be, whether they call it re-released or put up on Netflix, but they did like six months ago.

No longer.

No, it was not.

It was less than a year ago.

Really?

Yes.

Yes.

The Netflix part of the story is new.

But people think it's a new documentary because they didn't watch it on ESPN and they don't watch 30 for 30s.

But everybody has Netflix.

And I only know this because people come up to me every day.

Like, hey, I just watched your new documentary.

And you don't, I mean, I know.

You're like, well, I don't take the time to tell them that, but I'm like, oh, cool.

Thanks.

But nonetheless, I had the opportunity really to watch people's reaction five years ago and their reaction today because they're two really distinct periods of time and there's no there's no time in the middle like people weren't discovering it in the middle but when it hit Netflix a lot more people saw it and so but their reaction to the film on Netflix which is by the way the film is unchanged right

very same film their reaction is totally different what is the reaction

well

I think it's important to say that when it came out on ESPN, people were like, eh, they were mixed.

Now I don't hear from everybody, but the people, but I do hear from a lot, the people that react to watching it on Netflix, which is a current,

is real time, is they're like, wow,

that guy's a fucking man.

Like, it's just a totally different.

It's a totally different reaction.

It's funny you say, I agree with you.

And it's funny because I remember watching it five years ago on ESPN because someone was like, hey, I just saw you in Lance Armstrong's 30 for 30.

I'm like, really?

And then now,

I know, thank you.

I am a star.

Thank you for putting me on the map.

It's a symbiotic relationship.

And then now, or the last six or seven months, whatever, it's been on Netflix.

Number one, it did really well on Netflix.

It was like in the top 10.

Oh, really?

Did you not know that for a long time?

So the funny thing is I would get hit up.

constantly.

People are like, why?

You know, I just saw you in Lance Armstrong's, you know, thing on Netflix.

That's why I even knew it was even on Netflix and people did have a different a totally different response yeah but I feel like people like you become very likable recently I don't know if it's it's because of it's probably part of that part of it social media part of the podcast like I feel like you've kind of rebranded as time does I mean time helps I think I think But it's funny because now we're living in a time of cancel culture more than ever before.

I actually completely disagree.

Really, tell me.

I think, I mean, without being political, but you can just observe the political landscape.

Oh, no, in the last couple, yeah, in the last

six months different.

But I was one of the first people that America canceled.

Yes.

And no matter what you think of the current situation politically, I mean, it's, it's, it's, I mean, here's a guy who is now president who for two years we were trying to put in jail and people swore that you'd never hear from this guy guy ever again and now he's president again so there is clearly some redemption from somebody right and so and and there talk about resilience talk about like not not staying down i mean that's another one yeah i mean yeah

you're not going to say a word one way or the other yes i mean i i

but i feel like I do think that there is this

overall sentiment, and whether it's with Donald Trump or whether it's with me or whether it's whoever, of like, hey, are we, did we really just, are we just going to, because we tried to erase him and now the guy's president again.

I was convinced we erased him.

He's our president, right?

And, you know, we erased him, that guy that's cyclists, right?

And so he's, I don't know, and now he's, so there, there's been a, which look, I'm super grateful for, right?

I mean, whatever that is that society has allowed me to re-emerge, I could have willed it all I wanted to, Jen, right?

We can all will shit.

I can will the, you know, winning the lottery.

I'm not going to win the lottery.

There has to be this moment or these moments where society says, all right, we'll let you come in for a little bit.

Let's see how we feel about this.

And then they let you in and then they let you in some more.

And then all of a sudden, but none of that happens if

society doesn't say,

okay.

Well, I think people like human, like the human, like human aspect of people, right?

Like to getting to know people in a real way.

Social media does that because you show yourself.

Like you, you're doing these, you know, your workouts and you're doing your podcast now.

And like, my daughter said I fart a lot.

But your daughter said you fart all the time.

And you let me keep it in the podcast, right?

You're not like, oh, we're going to have to.

I mean, the only thing better would be if I actually farted on the podcast.

Listen, we have another minute and a half.

Because I'm trying to get you to wrap this up.

That could be a great because I'm going to go play golf.

What would you?

Well, listen, if you really want to wrap it up quickly,

I sent my wife this thing on Instagram the other day because it was somebody put it up like, this is the sign of a healthy relationship, or couples who fart around each other.

That's a sign of a healthy relationship.

And I thought that was amazing.

I sent it to her.

I was like, see, honey.

And what did she say?

Oh, yeah, great.

No, she, she.

I mean,

what did you, what do you mean?

Well, no, what did she say?

She's like, yeah, well, great.

Then we must have a really healthy relationship.

We We do have, yeah.

Well, I mean, I think, well, listen, I think after time you get comfortable with anybody, right?

And like you're, everything just kind of, it's a, it's a free-for-all.

Yeah.

How much time do I have with you still?

Not much.

Well, you tell me, because I, should I, should I wrap you right now?

Yeah.

Well, this is part one.

Do you promise?

I promise.

I promise.

Because, because there's so many other things that I want to talk to you about, all these projects that we're not going to, you know, that I want to know about.

We talked about a lot of fun stuff, I thought.

We did, but like, it's, this is kind of a short-ish podcast.

You told me 45 minutes.

I know.

If you would have said, let me just put it this way.

If you would have said, listen, my shows are three hours.

Do you know what I would have said?

No way.

Jen, I love you.

There is a 0% chance I'm doing that.

But you did Joe Rogan like 10 years ago.

I know, and I'm one of the shortest ones he's ever done.

Really?

How long was it?

It was like low twos.

Really?

And I asked him before, I was like, wait,

how long do you do these things for?

He's like, ah, three, three and a half hours.

I said, Joe, I'm not sitting there for three hours yeah i won't sit anywhere for three hours i mean that's a long time to sit a long time did he would it did he ask you anything earth-shattering in that two and a half hours a long time ago it was 10 years ago i know but like how do you ask someone i mean i could actually probably do this look joe's the king he's he's very conversational

he he doesn't i mean he has i mean i think jamie helps him a lot but i don't he he I would not like to sit and just chit-chat for three hours.

I wouldn't like that.

He doesn't mind it well also because you like to you're like you probably have ants in your pants like you're not interested and like you want to go

you do right like it's like a lot which is interesting because you sit on a bike for 12 hours at a time

you're moving you're seeing things there's tons of energy that everything is you're you're constantly reacting like that was one question one more question

okay and then we could do part two while you're on this bike doing the tour de france like what's going through your head as you're riding are you like just super focused do you listen to to music?

Can you listen to music?

No, you can't listen to music, but there's no daydreaming in the Tour de France ever, ever.

You got to be like really alert.

Yeah, and think about it.

I mean, it's, it's, there's

four to seven hours a day.

Alone.

No, no, no, no.

You're with 200 guys.

No, but like you're alone on the bike thinking.

Yeah, but you're constantly,

there's the crowds as well.

I mean, you have a million people a day on the side of the road.

You see over here, somebody

jumps out on the road to take a photo, or there's, there's a lot of obstacles.

And, you know,

the group is tight and packed together.

You're constantly, God forbid, the weather turns bad and there's rain and the roads are slick.

There's no daydreaming, no listening to music, no zoning out, so to speak.

Did you ever get any bad injuries?

I don't remember hearing of you ever getting a bad injury.

I was lucky there.

Right?

Like, you never had like an issue like that.

Do people like to change your bikes like they do with the F1, like a wheel here, a wheel there?

How often does that happen?

It didn't happen very often for us.

It didn't.

But it's not like Formula One.

It's not like Formula One.

But somebody would change your wheel if you got a flat tire.

Well, it is the only way I think of it as Formula One too.

It's very dangerous.

Like I said, like you're going so fast and like one bad move and you're dead, basically.

Like that's scary.

I don't know if you're dead.

Well, with F1, you could be dead.

And in cycling, you can die.

But it's more, it would be more just road rash, broken collarbone.

But look, I mean, you're, you're, people ask me, look, people ask me all the time, wow, what's it like when you crash in the tour?

I said, well, let me just make this really easy for you and we can end on this.

And this guy's a cyclist, right?

Or a gal, whoever asked the question.

I said, well, here's what you should, here's what you should do just so you can answer it for yourself.

I said, go put your bike clothes on and have your wife or husband or whoever you want to drive the car and have them just drive down the road at 30 miles an hour and jump out of the car.

car that's what it feels like that's a really good way to end the podcast but that's that's exactly that's what happens it's and and that's no but nobody would nobody nobody would want to feel that way of course ever jump out of the car you know like nobody's that hungry to get the answer to that question but that is exactly what it feels like how many times did that happen a lot that happens a lot to you yeah to everybody Wow, I know, even to you, even to you.

Yeah.

Okay, fine.

I'll let you go.

Part one.

Okay, so thank you.

And I appreciate you actually doing this, even though, even though you hate sitting.

So this is a big honor.

Thank you for sitting.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Go follow Lance Armstrong if you haven't already.

He's amazing.

He's got great workouts.

And listen to his podcast.

Goodbye.