Episode 379: Kat Timpf: Breaking Binary Thinking and Cancel Culture + Promoting Nuanced Political Discourse

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, crash it.

Okay, so today we have Kat Timf.

Yeah, the.

And it?

Oh, wow.

Okay.

On the podcast.

And Kat is, besides being foreign to

me, is a comedian, a writer, a political pundit, analyst.

Sure, yes.

Good.

Okay.

That works.

What else would you call it yourself?

You said?

I mean, writer came and get my closer to.

I think I kind of mentioned it all.

Yes.

And this is your second book.

Yeah.

Yes.

And the book is called, I used to like you until open the brackets, how binary thinking divides us.

And it was your first book was a New York Times investment.

And this book actually doesn't even, it's not even up in 10 years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So it's out of childhood time.

Thank you.

Hopefully it's going to sell great great because this is a really important issue.

I think that now we will let a single difference in terms of viewpoint or association even or perception about a person be enough to write off a person entirely.

I think that that tells everything you need to know about a person.

Well, let's have them again.

Yours and all.

Okay.

So it's about binary thinking.

Let's just first talk about what in your, what is binary thinking in your opinion?

It's basically, I mean, just so everyone's kind of clear on what this is about.

Yeah.

Because binary can mean lots of different things right now.

Yeah, I'm just saying us, us versus them, one side or the other.

I go through this a lot because I'm independent politically, but I also work at Fox.

So I get it from both sides.

How do you work at Fox?

It's and then also have this ideology.

It's very interesting.

Yeah.

So I'm an independent.

So it depends on the issue.

Overall, I'm stressful government, but that can put me at odds with or in agreement with all of the parties sometimes, depending on what the issue is.

So I'm in this position where I will get sort of criticized is a nice way or really horrific things have to be sometimes my view is a fox because if i criticize trump or if i'm not concerned with my issue but then there's people on the other side some of them that might even talk to me at all because i work at fox they're like well that tells me everything me you know i need to know about you and it's really frustrating because neither of those things really distract me right and i think that a lot of issues are complex and people are always complex and nuanced and i think that we lose a lot when we keep just writing people off because of one thing about them and we think that we know everything about people based on one thing yeah well that's welcome to the world we live in today right like i don't feel it was ever like this to the extent and it's just i feel getting worse and yeah right and social media has been like the biggest culprit for this

and so you know it's funny because even when i was telling you earlier i posted something today that was political which i never really do because a i'm scared yeah right and b because like every time i speak out and say something i get like just trolled.

And, you know, the whole hate culture or the cancel culture of like, even, even if they, if you have a different opinion, people aren't even scared to even talk about it.

So they just either go with what's popular or like PC or they just stay silent.

And to me, there's like, there'sn't, there's nothing, there's nowhere to go from there.

Yeah, I read about that in the book actually, too.

There's actually huge gaps.

Studies show

opinion in what people believe and then what they say that they believe because they think that's what they need to say.

And then also, I think that if you are somebody who's on one of the two sides, so let's say you have a career as a Republican or you talk, you're talking and talks,

you're liberal and you have this audience, and you know that your audience is going to get upset with you if you really say something kind of against your side, or that you like something that the other side did.

And some people won't do that.

And I think that, you know,

I understand how it can be tough to actually, because you've been on social media, to have to see all that hate.

But at the end of the day, people kind of get over it eventually and they move on.

I have people, you know, I get criticized by some people.

It can feel like a lot.

But then also the viewers of Fox come out to my shows, right?

I mean, well, on live shows, they come out.

So it's not like it's everybody that's watching that's yelling at me, but in the moment, it can feel like everybody's yelling at you.

Everybody hates you.

And people kind of want to try to avoid that.

But ultimately, I think we're creating this society where we're not having conversations with each other and we're not finding grieving even when we really could find it.

Right.

I think we're all, we're all more alike than we're not.

But yeah, at the same time, I think there is, because I think people are afraid of cancel culture.

And so that's why people are not having that in the beginning, because we saw what happened, you know, years ago when it started.

And it's people because of that are very, very shell-shocked.

When I do this show or this podcast or even in like for life right or in social media I say all sorts of things and people say to me all the time in private oh my god I totally agree with you

but I'm like I'm too scared to say that in public right yeah you probably you get that all the time I get that all the time I've also gotten I recently found out I have a friend who went through a breakup and her boyfriend was a Hollywood series her boyfriend was a Hollywood director and you know how in friends go through breakups you always find out things that they didn't tell you well they didn't yeah of course yeah yeah so she actually told me that he wouldn't send her pictures that he had taken of the two of us because he was worried that she would post the pictures and people would see that his girlfriends with me which would then affect his career and i went through this thing for a while i was really sad because i was like i thought this person was my friend i mean they've been together for a very long time they've been together for almost 10 years i had a really small wedding I had 30 people there.

He was one of the people there, even though some friends, partners weren't there.

Even some friends weren't there.

And I was like, I thought that this person liked me, I thought we had a friendship.

And then I realized he did.

That part was genuine that we got along.

He was just too afraid to post.

Oh, I have his girlfriend picture with me in it because I love the 92 first cripple.

And there are a lot of people like that.

I'll have people privately tell me, even people who are famous will know, oh, I really like Book Muth.

I don't want to follow you or like your posts because people might say, it's just ridiculous.

And so Jason says, well, okay, let's just talk about this, right?

it's prevalence right now not just not as prominent as it was the october 7th right the whole war right pro-Israel pro-Palestine I'm gonna tell you right now I'm pro-Israel right and I'm just I'm very hardcore about it now however not being binary here I do see that those shades of gray with a lot of things that are happening however when I'm out there on my platform talking about it that's exactly what would happen people are afraid to post about me the same as your friend with a boyfriend because they're nervous that that's going to have a ripple effect to what that's going to mean about other things and the other side is that people who do believe in what you're saying they double down on you right so it's a very interesting how people's psychology work in this way and how you're not allowed to have an opinion and yet still be able to see other pieces of the opinion because that's it you're you're unable to like me and disagree with me at the same time.

That is basically my idea.

In public.

in public and for me my life is very much like that i mean i have people who are on all sides of pretty much every issue and i have they're all very valuable relationships to me in some way or another i can't imagine going through life without some of these relationships even though there might be very strong strong disagreements on issues on various political issues be they you know about the election or if they are about foreign policy or things like people on all sides of every issue but we'll have all the things things in common that we can kind of unite around.

And I feel like my life is richer because of that.

And I

think it's really sad that a lot of people can't kind of do that themselves.

So what brought you to like, I mean, write this book?

Like in terms of like, you were a comedian, you write, I even saw that you used to be a writer for barstools.

Yeah.

I did a lot of really fun piano street videos for barstools.

That's so funny.

Yeah.

I know I used to, and actually she's been on the show a bunch.

I'm friends with Erica.

Yeah, well, you're she's amazing.

She's no longer there.

But I thought that was really funny.

So, right away, though, that tells me something.

When I saw that, it was part of your bio.

Yeah.

I'm like, but you kind of get keyed into, okay, this person's like, in my opinion, she's cool.

She's not like so, you know, she's not so conservative in some ways.

She can be fun.

You know what I mean?

Like, people do get that kind of vibe based on what your background is.

Oh, I have everyone's background shows.

And then they can make a decision.

But

anyway, my point is like, go ahead.

I didn't make sense for up to too?

But no, I mean, I thought the idea for this book when I was on my, after I wrote the first one, when I was kind of on my way to the tour for the second one, and I just, as I was going along on the tour, I became more and more sure I needed to write this book and was starting writing this book because I was kind of willing it.

I was going around the country, I was meeting all these different kinds of people, and I saw how much that we really did have in common.

And also, I kept having the same experience at these theaters where I would go, and the staff at the theater would always say to my team when I was on stage, she works at Fox News just because of the show that I was doing.

And it's like, well, yeah, I do.

And I also am this way when I'm on there too.

I mean, I'm fully welcome to be myself and say my opinion.

And even though it might be different than what other people's is.

And I think that we're really losing out a lot when we let one thing be enough to not to completely write off the humanity of another person.

And, but I think that we're being manipulated too.

I think that the people in power over over us, division works great for them because it's really great to say, a vote for me is a vote not just against somebody you disappear with, but a vote against actual evil.

That's really motivating.

And I, I mean, but it's also motivating for people to say, you know, I'm on the good side and the other side's bad.

Then you get to be good just because you're not on the bad side.

And that can be really hard to give up too.

But we're really losing more.

by because it could be working together on so many more things.

Right.

But okay, so

because you grew up Roman Catholic, wasn't it?

Yeah, super Catholic, super Catholic.

Yes.

So this is a far cry because that was like you were probably grew up very conservative, right?

So I grew up very afraid of the devil.

Yeah.

In fact, yeah.

Now you work for the devil to some people.

Some people, yeah.

I grew up like actually truly terrified of the devil.

I mean, I was raised very, very Catholic.

I'm totally agnostic now.

I'm just a question mark.

I think I would be happier if I were religious because I wouldn't love to think that I'm a saint being older and then die.

That's kind of a bummer.

Right.

You know what I mean?

But

it is.

It's a huge bumper.

But I mean, yeah, I was raised extremely, extremely Catholic.

So what was your evolution?

How did you go from one extreme until where you are now?

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I took it seriously.

Like, I was doing Brian Water class in the fourth grade for Souls in Purgatory.

Oh, wow.

I was very serious about it.

I think part of it was I was having sex with my high school boyfriend, which which is like a pretty normal thing to do.

But to me, I was like, I'm going to go to hell because I'm doing this.

So why did I stop doing this?

I would confess it to the priest that I was doing it.

Like, wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, I mean, and then eventually I just kind of thought, you know, do I really think that I deserve to go to hell for all of eternity and be in eternal torment because I'm having sex with my boyfriend?

And then I realized I don't think that I do.

And so that's what kind of, I mean, in general i think some of the things that and i i also that the catholic church that you went to is really that's a mortal sin and like if you if you go to confession then you're you're good but if let's say i went to my mother's house had sex and i'm going to run and it was on highway confession i got hit by a car then i'll go to hell forever right because i died confession yeah to me that just sentence that didn't actually sit right with me i was like i think that i'm actually like not hurting anybody here right and so like what do how old were you when you kind of had this like well i mean it was like 17 I was 17, 18.

I was probably, I was Catholic until I was about like 18 or 19.

I wonder if it's because I find that when people are so extreme in one

area,

Kenyan usually does things to the opposite side.

Yeah, I know it is.

And it is actually, I write a whole chapter about religion in my book.

I know,

which I mean,

my mom died 10 years ago, but my mom said I'm still very religious.

I mean, there is definitely pressure on me.

People want me to leave as I write about my book, which I'm, you know, terrified people to read about.

I decided to be older about.

That was the strip.

that was the tough with me and her.

And, you know, I, people get sometimes asked me as though it's on purpose.

Like I actually told God, like, hey, let's take a hike.

I'm not interested in like it often.

That's not true.

I like, I love the idea of eternal life and happiness.

I just can't get there.

I can't.

I hope to someday believe in something, but I just, I don't know.

Did your mom, before your mother died, were you able to like reconcile your situation with her?

Like, I think that the conversations you have after death are they only look like that in the movies.

Yeah.

I think, you know, like she was like, I'm thirsty.

Like, I don't feel good.

Like, she's dying, you know?

But you were still, we had a relationship.

We had a relationship.

Yeah.

It wasn't like she was.

You're not strange.

You weren't strange.

But it was, you know, a lot.

And my home was awesome.

She was actually kind of a living embodiment of a lot of these articles in this book.

She was very, very Catholic.

She was also really vulgar.

She was really funny.

Yeah, she was really funny.

I remember some of the nurses on her hospital.

She was out describing her as a leaf.

I was thinking she was hoping dick jokes.

Like she was, you wouldn't know when you interacted with her that she was as religious as,

but she took, she, she was an awesome hit, truly an awesome hit.

But like, she doesn't want me to go to hell.

So you kind of understand where she's coming from, how it's not that simple to just be like, oh, that's okay that you don't, because in her mind, I'm going to hell.

So how do you kind of get past that?

You kind of can't get past that.

And she actually, she was in the the hospital where she died she did her last rites right about this she did her last rites and then she told the priest like i'm i'm like i'm worried about that she made me my brother my sister my dad go and confess like have made hear our confessions in the hospital because she asked him about it he was like we don't really do that and she was like i see an open office like go there so but she also you know who talked like how does she get him to do that yeah it's right really remarkable but it was really it was really tough and i wish people could just understand that it's not like i am rejecting the idea of eternal life on purpose, if that makes sense.

Yeah, no, it does make sense to me.

Although all of this is kind of a little bit outside my,

other than like experiencing it and understanding it, I've never been, I've been reading your situation.

So, but what about like now you're a libertarian?

That's how you kind of get how would you describe that?

Because everybody I speak to, whenever I ask them what their definition of a libertarian is, it's always different.

Yeah.

Always.

And so I need to get confused.

Like if someone says that, I'm like, well, does that mean you're finding more?

Are you a Republican?

Are you not a Republican?

Are you like the opposite?

What does it mean to you?

A lot of people say they're more libertarian than I'm not.

It just depends on the issue.

Yeah,

I think that's what it is.

I think it's not.

I mean, I'm, it's pretty simple.

I say free markets and no juggies.

That's what it needs to mean.

Yes.

So it means small government, but all across the board, but that includes social issues.

So I'm different than a lot of Republicans in that sense.

I am anti-war, which depends on the war and political parties.

And it's for smaller governments.

So you don't

for war.

Well, I think that,

do you want to talk about this

super, super, super complicated?

You don't want to know how to violate one?

No, but I'm telling you, but this is about being non-binary, right?

I think it's about, so I think.

in terms of the United States and involvement in being the world's policeman, I think that we haven't done a very good job of it.

I think with all the things, so my husband, I remember this, he is a Afghan war veteran, right?

And he went over to Afghanistan.

And that was a decades conflict.

And what exactly did we get from that?

I know, it's true.

What exactly did we get?

And you said this.

If you were ever to say this, you were a like a terrorist or a traitor or a terrorist sympathizer.

And, you know, I...

I think that's

war makes a lot of money.

And it was really hard watching him go through that because it's you know he lost friends friends classmates over there who died over there and you know i think that we we have to be able to ask questions about everything we have to be able to say this thing doesn't make sense we can you have to be able to listen to each other and um not just be like oh you said that therefore you're you're with the terrorists or you're with us and it was also the same way like with Israel saying you feel for the hostages i mean see that's you should you should feel for innocent i feel for innocent civilians everywhere right right um but that's you can't even say that anymore you can't say i can say you definitely because people like to have i think it makes people feel very comfortable and safe when they have like a sky

yep and and like so you're fighting with like human nature in that way right like you know it makes me feel comforted when i'm like you know it that's like kind of like with habits and routines and only things that I talk about is because it gives you a sense of comfort and like predictability.

Yeah.

Right?

It is to do what I write about in this book.

It is going against human nature.

It absolutely is going against human nature.

Yeah.

Humans are tribal.

Humans get good, you know, the bonding chemicals go off when they are not just engaging with people, what they see as their tribe, but also, I mean, everybody knows bonding by talking shit about somebody in the group chat.

You know what I mean?

That's so true.

That's what people do, though.

They do.

They bond over like misery and choice.

I mean, that's kind of what their comes from like people bond over talking yeah so true they they do and i think that it's just happened on such a larger scale but when we do engage with people who are different from us we learn a lot i mean if we don't do that we are so so binary thinking is basically the idea of critical thinking i say this in the book and that's because if you think aside all the thinking has already been done for you.

Yeah.

So you don't have to stop and assess the issue.

And that's easier.

But also when people aren't thinking, dumb things can happen.

But that also, it means it's the enemy of kind of thinking creatively.

And

you just miss out on these opportunities.

And so much research shows, whether it is religion, whether it is politics, no matter what it is, if you get to just get to know people who are from a different religion or who are from a different background or who have different views, you will not.

be as easily subjected to believing things about them that aren't true because we're wrong about each other all the time research five side out too that often Democrats will believe that a way higher percentage of Republicans believe in so-called extreme beliefs than they actually do.

And the same goes for the other side.

And the only way around it is unfortunately going against human nature and getting to know people that are not in your bulk, essentially.

Was there any particular story or anything that kind of happened to you that kind of even preempted the fact that you really wanted to write this book?

Like, was there, well, this happened,

this scenario happened.

I know you talked about like Bill Mario vehicle

as well.

Yeah, I think it was just the experience of working while I work and go

every time you go out to a party and meeting people, what's the question everybody's asks you?

Like, what do you do?

And

I'm always, I, I, I, I write my book that I said that I work in porn before.

And like, I've done, I've actually, and that's only with people that I, you know, know that I'm never going to see again.

I'm like, yeah, I'm working porn.

I'm like, oh, that's so cool.

And then it's like, actually, they move on, basically.

It's not a big deal.

Right.

But if I say, because if i say we're gonna have fox news people will then it's not a conversation people will project every thought and opinion they go out about fox onto you and it's just exhausting and it's like i'm almost

and i just don't want to deal with that i'll say i'm a writer i've said um no thank you when people have asked me and then people even weirded out they just said really yes because if yeah and no thank you no thank you what do you what do you do for organ i say no thank you and then people are like okay because when i say fox news it just changes changes the bible and it shouldn't because again but doesn't that tell you something though right there

like to me that says like these the the the democratic people the left people whatever well whatever you're walking about they're more they're much more

critical and binary

than the right side but yet a lot of times the right side gets um overly criticized for being too binary.

See, I get it from both sides.

I guess

I'm right from me.

It's interesting.

I don't work.

Yeah, that's right.

I get it from both sides.

I'll get it, you know, oftentimes for social issues.

I'll get stuff from the right

or, you know,

my skirt's too short, what I wear.

I'm too craft.

It's my attitude.

Definitely the religion thing.

Definitely the religion thing.

Well, since time, by the way, religion and politics are the two things that you should never talk about.

Yeah, and I do.

I write all about it.

I get to say you for a living.

Sorry about politics.

So I definitely get it from both sides.

I'd say the difference is, and i don't know if that's just simply because of where i work but i find that more people on the right are at least willing to speak with me sometimes people on the left won't talk to me at all like i'm not allowed to leave the room right because of where i work what's your actual opinion and you can have gray areas on politics on your what's your political stance just less um it's across the board so i i'm i don't i don't vote i've never voted for a republican or doubt i always vote third party i've never i never have and i don't intend to like when you what's happening now you know r of k now is going to be endorsing Trump.

Yeah, he did, yeah, and he did, which I was shocked about that.

What do you think of all that stuff?

So I understand in some ways why he did it.

And there is a lot of pressure to sort of pick a side, they say.

I really hope that he doesn't stop being able to, because what I really liked about RFK, you know, I disagree with him some things, other things, whatever, I like the internet voice.

I like that he would criticize the policy and he would not criticize, or he would not be swaying based on whose policy it was or the comments.

So he would say, I disagree with this, or I think this is a good idea, whether it was coming from Biden O'Connell or it was coming from Trump.

And I hope he doesn't lose that because he's endorsed Trump.

Because he even said in his speech when he endorsed him, he said, you know, I do disagree with some of these Trump said, but da da da da da da.

So I, you know, I hope he doesn't lose that because I think those voices are really rare and really kind of precious with the way things are now.

Yeah.

I mean, listen,

I've wanted to hear him speak a bunch of my different friends, had him had him for fundraising and stuff like that.

But the truth of the matter is people in that position don't have a chance.

All they're doing is taking votes away from someone else that you may want to win.

Do you know what I'm saying?

You see, I understand that, but I don't, I don't have, people say that to me all the time.

I don't, like my vote belongs to me.

And people will say, well, you know, you just have to get over it and make a side.

And I don't, I don't fit in on either side.

So who are you going to vote for now?

Probably, probably the libertarian candidate.

Yeah, just voting for that baby.

And it does.

And so for me, it's not so much that I'm voting for the libertarian candidate themselves because the libertarian party can be pretty embarrassing a lot.

I'm voting for a system where it doesn't matter so much who wins.

I mean, I think we put so much emphasis on which people are in power and not enough emphasis on the amount of power that those people have.

Yeah, that's actually very true.

You know?

Yeah.

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What do you think of Kamala?

Like, were you so?

I mean, What's there to think of her?

Like, she doesn't, she doesn't say anything.

Nothing.

Preaching to Nick and Very.

I mean,

she's truly been on every side of most issues.

So I don't know what sign she is on now.

You know that right now, she also said that she was going to be putting hundreds of millions of dollars to the wall that they started, that Donald Trump started, right?

After constant criticism of how that wall was such a divide.

Like, that's the problem.

However, the issue I have is that women, because she's a woman, people are going to vote for her just on that alone without knowing her policies, not knowing what she's going to stand for.

She really doesn't stand for anything.

Well, the media is always

awesome.

I mean,

that's the point.

She's a big commission manufactured thing of like, she's cool and cool.

You know, she has a girl that you want to go out with.

You want to go out with her?

No, I know it's not.

But I mean, that's, it's all manufactured.

Yeah, but see, that's the problem, also, right?

So people are getting swayed more to one side or the other, depending on what media they're following.

So media is a really big problem because it's all properly, no, a lot of it is not true.

It's not authentic.

You work in media, you work in Fox.

I work at Fox.

I work at Fox.

And it's interesting to me when I, you know, I write, I actually just said directly dressed, I write a lot about Fox and he's kind of as a lightning rod in the book.

And, you know, it's really interesting to me when people are like, how can you work there?

And Fox is this and your service.

And it's like, well, yeah, it is, but you're acting like there's no media with a liberal slant, yeah.

You know, there's a lot of need with a liberal slant, and also for me, it's just a platform, you know, it's a platform that I'm very grateful for.

It's just and worked elsewhere, so I don't really know.

But having that freedom, they don't ever tell me I can't say something at Fox.

I've never really been like, I want to say this, but I was told I can't, so I'm very grateful for that.

How did you get the job at Fox?

Like, that was the process that led you to.

Let's do like, again, like a professional evolution.

Yeah, I was a writer, and I just been doing guest appearances on Fox.

And I eventually got on Red Eye, which was the Greg's 3 a.m.

show before he had the new show.

I don't know.

It was a show called Red Eye Air at 3 a.m.

I used to actually watch it back when I lived in LA and was working at the majority at Boston Market.

And I was like, I'd be really good at that show.

And I'm saying that to when I was watching with my boyfriend and his brother, his brother would be like, you're cast here at Boston Market.

So I showed him, right?

But I, um, that's a great story.

Yeah.

yeah.

So you were working at Boston.

See, this is a cliff, by the way.

So you were working at Boston Market last year.

How many years ago?

Gosh, it's been so I was all, I always know because I'm old my cat is.

So it's been 14 years.

Really?

Yeah, I said.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So 14 years ago, you were working at Boston Market.

You're watching this show at 3 a.m.

on Fox.

It's on midnight now.

Right.

Right.

And they were like, hey, you know what?

I'm doing really good on this show.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And I always wanted to, you know, work with Greg.

And I started getting guest experiences on font just because of my writings and the MST videos I was doing.

And I finally got on red eye and I was so nervous that I just kind of pretended I wasn't.

And Greg and I had it off.

We had really great, you know, iron or chemistry.

And so he kept asking me to come back.

The most you could get asked back as a guest on Reddit is like every two weeks.

So I was going back every two weeks.

And then during that 10 minutes email that I, they wanted me to fill in all pilot they were doing, which I understood was an audition, which is for like the new weekly show.

So I did that and I got a job basically so i mean it was kind of crazy just you know how specific of a goal that i said that happened really crazy wow that is so crazy yeah i didn't think to be honest it's crazy that at 21 years old you were watching that show yeah well rallying was like a rushy kind of weird i i don't know how else to describe it show uh was it a popular show it was one at three in the morning but i have like a cult following i was gonna say like what kind of self included what was like what kind of like what kind of of numbers was the show getting i had no idea but it was i think it was a lot of food service employees yeah yeah yeah watching yeah that is amazing yeah and so you've been at fox for this whole time i've been at fox for nine nine years now well so just kind of different in different ways and different in like positions basically for shows i've always yeah i've always been on great show we were just a weekly show at first and then now we're on every night and i do all these other shows there as well wow and then do you also tour them with the comedian the food of comedy yeah on the tour yeah

are you so do you do like stand at like the comedy store and all that too or is it just i think most i was doing stand-up kind of just prepared for my tour in new york getting up around new york and stuff trying out new stuff but i'm on tour every weekend but i'm not on the show we need to think the exception of one or two so do you have anything netflix special no not yet but

not yet but it's a new world

this would be like the boston market thing but yes you know

having a netflix Yeah, I think I would be really good at

really good at that.

So, you don't open up for anybody else if I'm on, you know, on touring.

No, not anymore.

I mean, I don't know what I would.

I'm going frankly.

And now you're having a baby.

Yes, I'm also going to have a baby.

Wow.

So, your schedule is basically, you still write independently for others, but besides both of the tours.

So, I mean, I'm on Fox by Night Sami, and I'm on tour the nights that I'm on Fox.

Wow.

I think I have like warranty weekends off before I'm all about to fly anymore because of the baby.

I know.

So what are you going to do once you have the baby?

Are you going to use that?

My best.

Yeah.

My best.

I love them.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I didn't really Google it.

I was kind of just like, all right, well, I'll, you know, take, I'll get my birth control out.

And I got pregnant.

And on birth control?

No, I'm not dying.

I found out like you was like, yeah.

Like all I did was have sex, which I understand that that's how that works.

But that's kind of my thing.

I know.

Like, I just, that can't be.

How is that?

How?

You know, I didn't get any license.

No.

I don't even know how to hold a baby.

So I'm going to have to find someone's baby.

You know, it's so funny.

Some things are so funny.

You know, I had on before you came out was like the leading child development psychologist in

the country, whatever.

And we actually were talking about that before, how like there's no like license to have a baby.

Like people who are like completely incompetent.

Dr.

Senior, incompetent or some are coming to have a baby and people just have to figure it out as they go.

And that's people figure it out.

Like, I think you're going to figure it out.

That's unhappy.

hoping you know i mean i'll figure it out right and i think yeah you know i mean you're smart i mean i never thought like saw myself as somebody that wanted to have kids and my husband i was like i want his kids i think really yeah how long have you guys been together we've been together it'll be six years but i don't want to get buried oh wow so is he in the same world as you or

he's a finance guy oh he is yeah he likes spreadsheets no way he likes

him

money do he loves he actually likes it, too.

He loves spreadsheets.

He enjoys it.

He's honestly a brain of mine.

Like, how did you guys mean that on Riot?

I mean, David.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

I met a lot of people that were not my husband on Riot.

I'm sure.

I didn't like him at first.

He doesn't really know tag.

I really liked only like the creative type.

Yeah.

And stuff like that.

And Mrs.

Tripp had been sitting a lot with him.

And, you know, we just really balance each other.

balance each other out really well and he's like my biggest supporter that's amazing it's just i mean I'm a loved handle.

I'm a nightmare, honestly.

Sometimes, yeah.

Why?

Is it because you're opinionated?

I'm stimulated.

I'm impulsive.

I'm also pregnant, so I'm unmedicated.

I have ADHD.

I've been on stimulants my entire life, except for right now.

Like, I started really when I was five, and now I'm not on stimulus.

And it's been a real, real struggle.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

So this is the first time you've never been on any.

So I've been in the times when I was like hospitalized.

Like, yeah.

wow yeah but we have everyone always says they have add but yeah no it's really like they know a doctor notice almost five years old functioning in a classroom side so yeah really definitely have adhd are you on now not now we did you change to agglomerate i took five minutes i'm taking them all i used to take five minutes i'm going to take five minutes again when i'm being pregnant do you feel a major difference yes I have to.

It's really hard for me to read and write and pay attention and also regulate my emotions and pretty much everything.

It's hard for me to do anything actually.

Wow.

And he's been very, very supportive, like very supportive.

And I've also, I'm very self-aware, which I think helps or he'll, you know, a common scene will be along the line.

He's like, like, you'll be like, hey, babe, like, can you like maybe work on like picking this up?

Well, I'm going to go like, you want me to move right?

I'm like, okay.

Sorry, you know, and you're pregnant.

So shind are and hormones are like through the roof.

Yes.

So sitting sitting here doing this, is it really hard for you?

It's hard to do anything.

So this is just part of the course.

I'm not getting, but I'm trying to view it as like, this is,

I, you know,

it could have like a new exciting experience of like, okay, I already know what it's like to be medicated.

Let's just like accept that you're not and go all the way into feeling all the things and doing all the things.

So I don't spend time kind of feeling sorry for myself about it.

No, only if only I could kind of just lean all the way into it.

Can you, could you?

I remember when I was pregnant, I drank a cup of coffee.

You're allowed to drink coffee.

I'm drinking coffee.

You are drinking coffee.

Yeah, but I can't.

And also, I love nicotine.

Honestly, not doing that.

Right.

It's not obvious.

I'm not doing it.

Were you like a big smoker?

I was a smoker.

Not really.

I smoked when I drank in college, although I did drink a lot in college, as I think a lot of people did.

And like now, I'm like, why?

But

yeah,

everybody's like drinking just incessantly.

And you're like, oh, yeah, you sure that you do.

But that's what people do in Polish.

That's what they do.

Yes.

And I was vaping a lot, like incessantly.

I was vaping like two at a time.

So when I quit that, but

almost two years ago, I quit vaping.

And then I was using this little nicotine gum, like Zins pouches.

They helped me write.

They helped me focus.

What happens if you take a nicotine gum?

You know, I mean, I don't remember this, but if you're not smoking it, nicotine in itself is very damaging to the baby.

baby yes right but like is there a way that they can wean you off of it like that i just started

cold turkey yeah so you want whole turkey and all like everything yeah

wow i'm surprised you're even sitting here yeah i look

like this isn't a hard thing for you to do yeah i mean it's but i mean i i i'm interested in this you know i'm i i like talking about these issues i like talking about my book it's not like it's miserable for me to be alive you know maybe the first trimester was what did it does it cost like because does adh it sounds like we said that all these other things, like the anxiety and depression, if they're like, because your emotions are not regulated, yeah, that's what was happening.

And you can't, I thought you're allowed to be on meds now.

You can, but they're kind of like, so you can, but we don't really know how it affects the baby.

So I wasn't comfortable with that.

So I was like, I'll just, no, that's a very, because I would want to be like down the road, something's wrong.

And I'm like, is it because I, um, so I'm just, I'm doing, I'm doing nothing.

Yeah.

You know, I'm just, and thankfully i have supported people and i like to understand and i'm still working very hard it's just harder it's harder

i know yeah but you could get probably always distracted or you can't focus and all that so it's hard it is hard but i'm not i'm doing it i could never do this for myself i don't love myself this much but i haven't even met this video yet right and i haven't even loved this video

It was just so weird because I always said, like, how are people to say all means and they don't even need them?

Because you don't know they're going to grow up.

They could suck.

Like, this kid could grow up and be like, the worst.

It could be the worst.

I don't know.

It's so crazy.

I'm doing all this and it's going to be so weird.

Like, there's going to be a baby living in my apartment.

I know.

Isn't that weird?

It's so weird.

It's going to be like meeting me stay alive.

And then it's going to start to talk.

I mean, if all goes well.

And then it's going to tell me no.

It's going to tell me no.

And I'm going to be like, listen, I didn't chew any nicotine though for you.

Or take medicine.

You have the best shot.

And you're going to tell me no.

Trust me, It's a thankless job Yeah figure out pretty quickly That's what that's yeah, do you do you have do you know if it's a boy or a girl?

I'm not my doctor does I don't want to find out.

Oh, you don't want to find out?

Yeah.

I think it's a boy.

My husband needs a girl.

Just for no reason.

I can tell by how you're hungry.

Well, you think it's a boy too?

Let me see.

Can I see it?

Well, can you say

it's like low?

I think it's a boy.

Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a boy too.

That's what I think.

It feels like it's a boy.

Well, you're low, that's what.

Yeah.

i had a boy i am a boy a girl and that was i remember for me it was like low like yeah i feel like it's a boy it just feels like it's a boy but you're nauseous so that means it might be a good because girls make you really nauseous right and also my sister's a disaster which they say that that's a girl and it's a girl too so i just had like everything so i know

it's twinned and yeah it's not like a girl it's not but i mean yeah i just kind of want to be surprised well if that's the way my mom did it yeah and i kind of want to do as many things like how you make she did it.

Although she didn't get medication, so I'm kind of like curious about it.

I kind of want to.

She didn't do medication.

I gotta try to do it without medication.

You mean without an epidural?

Like getting birth without it, yeah.

Okay, I'll tell you something.

I did my first one with an epidural, the second one with nothing.

Honestly, if you can go without doing anything, it's better.

And you heal much quicker, yeah, much quicker.

And you're back up and add-on, much better.

If you can do it, I mean, it depends.

I'm just, I'm also, isn't it so weird?

I'm just doing this.

I'm curious.

Yeah, you're curious.

I don't know how it feels.

I mean, I know it doesn't feel like, oh, I know it hurts.

Yeah, it's crucially.

It's excruciatingly painful.

But I, so I had a, my book, well, this is my first book.

I had a bowel perforation.

What is that?

It's like I had a hole in the colon.

And I have an ileostomy, like a little, like a shitback for five weeks.

I'm okay now.

I think it's fine now.

No, it was this.

This was 2020.

Wow.

But this was, that is all this to say that hurt very bad.

Yeah.

And there was no little baby at the end of that.

I was excited.

yeah exactly

like maybe if i can get through that i can get through birth you could probably i think people are surprised to be honest that i felt it to be worse on the epidural because everything was just worse on every level and like if you just like sight yourself up for what it is i think you'll be okay i mean it's excruciating don't get me wrong sure but it's just it's excruciating in the with the of the epidural in a different way than like if it made sense to you yeah because for me it's like the pain, at least it's supposed to be.

Yeah, it must be pain.

It's not like other pain I've had like that, where it's like, this pain means you're dying and you emerge

injury.

That's right.

It is actually a lot different.

Exactly.

Again, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

I've never either birds.

So maybe I'm going to handle it.

Maybe I feel like such a little bitch I can't handle it.

Well, that's all.

Give me the drugs.

I mean, who I am.

You could at least plan for the natural.

And I just

immediately be like, no, I can't.

Yeah, screw you.

Give me the drugs.

I don't know what it will

I didn't have a choice the second time.

I have to do natural because they were trying to give me the epidural while the baby was coming out.

And that's when my bought bad.

And just I had the baby.

And I was like, oh my God, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be.

I'm like, so happy to get the epidural.

But then you have the two comparisons.

So just for that kind of information,

take it for what it's worth, you know?

That's my goal.

Yeah, that's my goal.

Definitely a hospital.

Definitely a hospital.

I was talking about this Muslim friends the other day, and actually, pretty much every person that I know and not every person but most of them that play on this phone or thing a lot of them have on my need to go to the hospital anyway.

Oh, for sure.

I don't know why anybody can do that.

Like to me, that is crazy.

Yeah, I just, I want the drugs there.

I want the drugs around.

Just in case.

Just in case.

I also think like so much shit can go wrong.

Yeah.

If you don't even think of.

Like, why would you put yourself

through all this stuff, not doing the nicotine, not doing the medication, not doing, and then you're going to put yourself in a situation where shit can go wrong that you're not even thinking of but i love doc if i'm somebody who always calls the doctor and my husband responded me i'll be like are you hiding a conjuring at um so he says yes

okay i say well i say no okay he says no defense me i want to try yeah he says yes although I ended up being right that I was dying when I needed the shift bag.

So he...

What happened then?

I mean, I mean, it was, I suddenly got something.

It was like really, really bad.

And I was like, I need to go to the hospital.

But I also call the doctor for everything.

So, what would cause the stomach?

It's not sure.

I think it could have been from a cold mascot that I had, but like, you can't really prove that because it had been previous a couple like weeks before that.

Wow.

So, it's just been very rare.

I don't like discouraged people from getting those because it,

whether it was that or it was something, I guess it was really a rare, rare, rare, rare thing to happen.

It's like a point zero zero zero one thing to happen.

So, I was

that small percentage is someone.

And if it was me, it was you.

So then like what happened?

Did you think that you had to wear like was it just lucky that it only was five months that you had to yeah, it's really small.

It was really minor.

It was a really really minor, you know.

So you had to like walk around with it outside like wear stuffed in your pants.

You can see there's a scar right here.

Oh, so I had my palm.

It's big.

Well, well, it's my finna get bigger because I'm having a baby and small child, but I had my small intestine coming out of my stomach and my husband like still on sex with me.

Wow, yeah.

I mean, when you want to see, I'm sure he says, he was covering up with like a belt, if you're wondering.

I was going to say, Hannah,

not anything boring.

Yeah, there's fine.

Oh, yeah, I can show you later, but like, if you really want to see it, yeah, yeah, that is so interesting to me.

You're like, no, no, I thought you said rask.

Don't this blind past on the binary, you know?

Yeah, yeah, that is so insane.

Wow.

Well, okay, so congratulations again.

I know that you're like, the ADD is quite and hot.

God bless you for sitting here for how long has it been?

40 minutes or so?

40 minutes?

Yep.

Okay, I will let you wrap it up.

But listen, okay, everyone, the book is called I Used to Like You and Till and How Binary Thinking Divides Us by Kat Timf, who's pregnant and who's great.

And you guys should go grab her book because it's good.

And you guys should just read it.

That's it.

And hey guys, where else we will find you?

Everything is false.

That's theo that we go to.

There's theovattimp.com, everything.

Book, tour, everything.

The real, my surreal Jen Cohen.

Hilarious.

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, even in your discomfort.

Man,

having you, absolutely.

Bye.