Episode 329: Jenny Hutt: Growing Up In The Music Industry, Entrepreneurship & Partnering with Shark Tank

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

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We have Jenny Hunt on Habits and Hustle today.

So thank you for being on today, Jenny.

Thank you for having me.

And I met Jenny, I think, like in like an old life 15 years ago, because I was on your Sirius XM show.

Jenny had a show on Sirius XM for like 20 years.

That entire literally just, right?

Like it just stopped like a year ago.

Yeah.

And yeah, that's exactly what it ended.

So I was there for over 17 years.

And then my show wasn't renewed in the late fall of 2022.

That's right.

So, yeah.

And

okay, wait, wait.

So I was going to say, like, so I met you because I had Noji required and I had a weighted shoe and you put me on your show.

And that's how we first met, like, God knows how many years ago.

Why did they not renew your show?

They renewed it for 20 years.

I mean, 18 years.

Yeah, I think Sirius XM just went through a lot of changes.

And the channel that I was on was taken down in its entirety.

So I think they just, yeah, yeah.

So they've gone through a lot of stuff, but it's fine.

I look, it was very hard.

It was very sad because it was sort of like really my professional home for so many years.

And I learned how to be a broadcaster on that, on, on, on their bandwidth.

And I connected with so many people because of that radio show.

So it was a tough thing to go from that to then podcasting.

And it's still not that easy.

Like I miss the day-to-day live engagement that I had with people.

And I still like now people will message me things on social media.

Like they'll see me post something in a story and they'll be like, I didn't know blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, but I've been talking for the past three months about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah on the podcast.

But it's a different, it's not the same like regularity because that was every day and the podcast is two days a week, sometimes three days a week.

Like it's just different.

Wow.

So I miss that.

Well, also, yeah, but so it's also because you had a call-in show for five every day live yeah which is a whole other beast in itself yeah like people become you become part of their daily routine and start listening to you or calling you so by the way that's a lot i didn't even realize like you have to be how many hours a day were you doing the call-in show yeah so two hours a day but i loved it i mean there were parts of it and days that were hard but it was really almost like a lifeline for me and my relationship with my listeners was like we were tight like for so many years many of them kind of grew up with me.

We grew up together and went through a lot of life stuff together.

And it just sort of kind of kicked off just a rough year and a half from that point.

I mean, I lost my dad that year.

I, I lost my job.

I lost my dad.

I realized that we were going to have to end up selling our house and we're moving.

Like there's just been a lot of stuff all in one like 15 month period, but I don't know.

I'm very, very strong and resilient.

And I, for whatever reason, I just keep going.

So it's funny that you say like how many things i've accomplished i don't i don't really feel those things very often like i'll have moments where i'll be like oh you did that oh you did that but don't but don't you know that thing that like it's today so it's hard to look back and think about all the things that i did because i don't i just i worry about or i think about the things that i i still need to do i know well that's also what most high achievers do right they never focus on all the things that they have accomplished and they only focus on the things that they have not accomplished.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And that's usually what pushes and drives forward, right?

Because I kind of, I guess part of it is kind of like you are like, not, I wouldn't say it's imposter syndrome, but maybe it is.

Do you ever feel like you suffer from imposter syndrome?

Or I don't, you know, I don't really, that imposter syndrome is a, it's a quirky little thing when I hear people mention it.

And by the way, I wanted to say that I just did Heather DeBrow's podcast and she was like, you know, I'm really trying right now now to do the whole Jennifer Cohen thing with being big and bold.

And so, you know, she has this book.

And I'm saying to myself, yeah, I know she has that book.

Like, I love Jen.

And, but it was really cute how even she was talking about how she's even trying and she's does so much and she's so accomplished.

But I got such a kick out of her quoting you to me.

That is so funny.

You know what's so funny?

You mentioned heather, I'm going to give a shout out to Heather because I remember when my book came out and you were, I was like, do you know anybody who I should go on?

Like, what podcast that you know that maybe I should, and I otherwise don't know.

You mentioned her to me and then

nothing ever really kind of materialized.

And I emailed them too.

I tried, I said the whole thing, of course.

Yeah, but that's, that happens all the time.

Like, welcome to life, right?

People like, you know, but then what happened was like months later, a mutual friend of mine and Heather's, you know, I was, her name came up and there was this girl says, oh my God, you have to meet Heather.

You guys are like hysterical.

We ended up like, I ended up going on her show.

We became instant friends.

She's the best.

Fast friends.

And we've been like, we've been like buddies ever since.

And I love Heather.

So, hi.

She's a great girl.

Yeah.

Great.

She's a great girl.

And she puts these things together, all these, these girl, these like exceptional women groups or very cool.

Yeah.

And no, no, she's amazing.

I really like her.

So.

That's funny.

I remember that whole situation, but I love that she's even quoting that because.

Totally quoting you.

Yeah.

I love that.

It's important.

I, and yeah, and then I came on yours also when I, when I was promoting the book, but anyway, so then you started that, you kind of like left Sirius, you started your own podcast.

Yeah, how's it going?

Like, how does it feel?

Because it is so different.

Like, yeah, this is like a juggernaut in itself.

And you walk into a studio, everything's kind of there for you.

And then now you're like, you kind of ricocheted into like the world of podcasting.

Yeah.

So I miss having a team.

I really like working with people.

I love working.

I don't love being a solopreneur or whatever it's called, a solo entrepreneur.

So I miss that.

I miss working with people to book my show.

Like I do everything myself.

So I book my guests, I record, I edit, I post, I do it all because I have to.

I don't have a budget to hire anybody else.

And I think you know, like the podcast game isn't, unfortunately, it's not like a big money maker when you get certain sponsors.

Like people will hear ads, just being transparent.

Like they'll hear ads and think, oh, sponsorship, that's big coin.

And I'm like, no, and I repeat this, it's manicure money if that.

Like, it's just not when I, and there's no regular pay schedule.

So you could do a read from November and see $400 in May.

Like, it's a joke.

And it's fine.

I'm not like.

It is what it is.

It's better than not getting $400 from the reads you did in February or whatever.

But like, it's not the same as when you work with a network and you're paid a salary and there's a team sort of helping you arrange and do, there isn't, it's me.

So when life gets hectic, like I have to remember, I also, this is a priority, like everything's a priority.

And so that's, that's hard because I really can't take, cause you take a day off or you do, and people are like, where are you?

What happened?

And why?

And it's like, I just life.

Yeah.

Just, just life.

I didn't, you know, and so yeah, it's not my only, it's not my only, I'm always trying to do more.

Yeah, yeah but it's funny you just said also that you do like sometimes one sometimes two sometimes three i find it interesting i think the podcast world or this podcast space is is like a the wild wild west right it is the the problem i the issue is that the barrier to entry is very minimal anybody can call themselves a podcaster and do a podcast The difference is doing it really well or not doing it really well.

And the in-between is people don't know that if you want to have a consistent, good show, a good podcast, it requires a production, you know, to produce it well, to have a consistent schedule, to hustle for guests.

And the truth of the matter is you are getting paid those ads that people you're talking to, it's based on your CPMs, like how many downloads you have.

So if you're a new podcast, right, or even like a mid, like it takes time.

Right.

We've been a small podcast or a mid-sized podcast, you know, you're getting paid very little.

It's only you hit hit a threshold of a certain amount.

I'm just telling it to everybody who's listening.

Yes.

Then when money starts to come in, you know, you can have 50 ads, but if you're making a couple hundred dollars each ad, I mean, you're right.

You're like basically getting maybe a manicure and a pedicure.

Correct.

And that's great.

By the way, those months are really terrific,

but it's inconsistent.

And so you're right.

I was at one point, I was doing six days a week, seven days a week.

And I was like, the return on this is ridiculous and killing me anyway, like the schedule.

And then, so every Wednesday, I do a health-focused episode.

So weight and wellness and sort of the intersection of both.

And then every Saturday, I do an episode with my sister.

And I love Saturdays with Stacey.

You do a Saturday episode?

That's a Saturday episode.

Saturdays with Stacy.

Okay.

By the way, I love the two of you.

She is so, you guys are so funny together.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you do a Saturday.

Who listens to?

I mean, I guess people do listen to a podcast on Saturdays.

So you do a Wednesday, a Saturday.

And then the other ones, if I get a pitch, so this is like, if someone says to me, they want to be on the podcast and I think it's worth people listening to, then I'll do an extra episode during the week because I like like on a Tuesday or Thursday, but I like Wednesday, Saturday as my regular schedule.

And any other content that I put up is bonus.

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I think, but having a consistent schedule is like key to anything, right?

So then people know where to go.

It's like people like to have structure.

Like, well, I know that every Tuesday or wednesday or whatever i get to listen to that how long are each of your episodes so that too changed because i used to do really long episodes i was like i would just keep going because that's what i was used to long form conversations and then i sort of wise and uh for me it's better to keep them in the 40 minute range rather than the like 90 minute range like it's just well too much i mean some of mine can drone on and on for like two plus hours you know but that but you don't do them four times a week like you're measuring it how you release.

Yeah.

And you've been doing it longer.

I mean, and it's a different, you know, I think people go to you knowing the kind of guests you have.

You've been doing it for years.

And so it's more established.

And in

those ways, I think that's what they're going to get.

So I know.

So that makes sense.

I think that even though it probably is, again,

people don't have two hours to just listen to a podcast.

It's just a long period of time.

It would be ideal if it was shorter because, you know, it's for people to be concise.

But the truth is, I'm such a curious person.

I like, if I'm interested in something or I want to know, I ask a bazillion questions.

And I don't want it just to end because, you know, like on the business side, it's a bad idea.

Like, I

feel like I want, if I'm not for you, it's not.

See, for me, it is.

For me, I don't think people are coming to hear me talk to either my sister for two hours or talk about weight and dieting and exercising and eating and medications and whatever else for two hours.

I I think there's other people that do that.

People come to me for like compassion and warmth and humor and truth and sort of the stumbling through life thing.

But like, I go to you for more of an expertise in that hunt, like the hustle arena or whatever.

And like I would listen to Huberman for two hours.

And I happen to love that because then I walk, like I'll put on a podcast and walk outside and that keeps me company the whole time.

So I like to listen to the very long episodes.

Yeah.

I just don't think it's great for me to put out the very long episodes, but sometimes I do.

Sometimes they're an hour.

I just, yeah, I try to keep them less than that.

So your sister, could you wander up?

Like, was that kind of just, how did that even happen?

Does it, because you guys have a funny dynamic?

Or I think it's because, well, no, it, yes, and no.

So Stacey started doing the podcast when, sounds so fun.

I guess I launched it two weeks before my dad passed away and I had lost my job.

And so Stacey, I started bringing her on initially to talk gift lists.

My sister is the ultimate consumer.

She has great, like, she's the best shopper I know and she has incredible taste, like a perfect eye.

And then she also just knows everything to get.

Like I'm moving soon.

So the packing is hell.

And I just said to her the other day, I'm like, I can't the packing of like packing the dishes and the china and I'm moving piecemeal like over the course of two weeks.

And then there's a move day, but I'm trying to move the kitchen myself to, because everything is so expensive that I'm trying to like, whatever we could do ourselves or try to do.

Anyway, so I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to wrap everything in towels.

I'm going to do this.

I'm going to do that.

And she's like, wait, here's what you use to move.

These are the dish things.

This is this.

And I'm like, she hasn't moved.

Why the fuck does she know what I need?

Like, she knows everything that you can buy.

She knows where to buy it.

And then it's also, and what it is, it's also the cutest things.

So she doesn't just send bubble wrap.

She sends like plate sleeves that are bubble wrap like she just i don't know how i don't know why she knows but she knows every clothing hair care she just it's like it's like she's a savant in that way without consumerism

just looking for pretty much

good yeah she's so good at that and so and then so we started with like her gift list or the things that her favorite things and then it just kind of morphed into everybody loved her because she's funny and she's not funny like shticky.

She's not funny like set up punch.

She's just innately funny in her delivery of her being.

And so people loved her.

They love the sister stuff.

And we have always lived next door to each other.

We're not going to be living next door to each other anymore, which is sad.

But we just, there's a lot we sound alike and then we don't.

And we're very different, but we're very alike and we're similarly aged.

And so I think people enjoy.

And then we fight.

It's not like, you know, sometimes we argue.

It's just very normal.

and i think that's something people appreciate no it's so it's so like i i just caught myself i think i actually texted you because i caught myself scrolling instagram one day and i got onto your stuff with your sister yeah you did that's right right and it took me down a rabbit hole and i'm like oh my god this is so funny like this should be changed on the road because it was so you can tell it was so natural and just like naturally funny when two people like know each other really well and like differing and then what you guys talk about and like i don't know i just found it to be so hilarious now was she older and younger and what did she do for a job did she work or so my she yeah so she's 19 months older than me okay and she and i both are co-founders of our reading glasses company funny eyes I want to talk about that because that's amazing.

But what did you do before that?

So before that, she was a stay-at-home mom.

She did go to law school and she did graduate law school a million years ago, but she was a stay-at-home mom for many, many years.

And now she's a grandma, which is crazy.

She's two grandchildren.

Two grandsons are so delicious.

Oh, my gosh.

So what is thinking?

Why are you moving?

Where are you moving, bud?

So, oh, wow, this is so like, it's so weird and complicated, but I'll try to do.

So we live next door to the house in which I grew up.

So I, because my, both of my parents have died.

When my mother and father were both alive, it was great.

It was like paradise to live here.

And then my mom passed away and that changed the dynamic a bit because my mom wasn't here.

My dad still was.

And then he had a wife, whatever.

And then when my father passed away, for a myriad of reasons, it didn't feel right to stay adjacent to that property.

So we have separate properties, separate house.

We just had merged everything in together.

So it was like one big family, not that big, but like a little family compound.

And my sister's on the other side of the driveway and my dad was in the middle and my brother doesn't live here, but we're all very close.

And yeah, so we just knew we were going to, we were going to move and we were going to downsize.

And I, my kids aren't home anymore.

I have a 25-year-old and almost 24-year-old.

Like they're, they're adults.

Oh my gosh.

Wow.

Where are you?

Where are you moving?

I mean, close by, just smaller, but close to where I am now.

But I have to like, I have a giant closet here of stuff that I've had to weed through and let go of so many things and and cleaning out a house that you've lived in.

No, I've lived next door.

So the house I grew up in, I lived in since 1978.

And then I've lived here for 22 years.

So it's a lot of like unearthing like everything in our house has just been, it's like, ugh.

That's a lot.

It's so much.

And it's also much like I stare into the house with my dead parents.

Like that's like, I don't want to look in that house anymore.

Yeah, I don't blame you.

That's like a beer.

That's, that's kind of, that's kind of, would be kind of creepy, right?

To do that.

It's sad.

It's just, it's sad.

I need, I need to, it, it's in some ways, it's like, I'm cutting the umbilical cord now at 54 years old.

Like most people don't live with their parents that many years.

There's a lovely thing to it, but that it's also very sad because I was a little too close to my, to my parents.

And I see that now.

So in a way, as a, as a mom with my kids, I'm very much like, I want them to have real independence on every level, emotional, physical, all of that, because I don't want them to feel like I do now.

Wow.

So wait a minute.

So you're, do you have a similar, I mean, even though you acknowledge that maybe now and you realize that now, do your kids have that same type of like bond

now?

Or, and, and like, so are you like, how did your husband feel about you living right beside your entire family?

Well, we're, we're not anymore because that's we're moving.

But

he was okay.

He was okay, but it was hard.

It's been hard since we lost my dad.

I mean, everything has just been harder because it's like you go to the pandemic, through the pandemic, into kind of my father got sick during the pandemic and he was like a larger than life figure and sort of a patriarch kind of feeling.

And then there were all sorts of fucked up stuff with his estate.

It's just been very, very messy.

So it's been challenging.

Much of the time was really lovely.

As of late, it's been challenging.

So the answer to the thing about the kids, though, is they have grown up with cousins that are like siblings.

They were very close to my parents, especially my father, because my mom died 16 years ago.

So my kids were little.

So they remember her, but not the way they were with my dad.

But I think that both of them have learned sort of the similar lesson, like it's important to have independence and live your own lives.

Close by, like I, I think I'll always be in driving distance from one or both of my kids, depending on where they are.

And I mean, I speak to my kids every day.

It's not like, I mean, we all speak every day.

It's so there's still a healthy dose of enmeshment, but we do try to have a few more boundaries because i think for their lives that's a better that's a better thing so it's really about that and because if i could put my kids in like a padded room and just watch them i would but i but i can't they have to you know get to live their own lives and so that's what they're supposed to do and that's they're they're thriving right yeah It's interesting because you would think that in a way that made like at first situation similar when there's a family business, but you really didn't have a family business, did you?

No,

no,

no.

But your dad was in entertainment.

Like, wasn't your dad a very well-known?

Yes.

Yeah.

So my dad was, yeah, his music business.

So he was a music producer and publisher.

And he was also, he ran record labels and he founded a record label.

But that was really like in his day was way back when, like 1997, he left.

the music business pretty much and then he did like consulting through the years and working with different people and helping with their careers and but his really his heyday was 25 years ago which is so strange because it's still talked about yeah wow what label was he at or was he so yeah so he founded a label called sbk records and then he ran emi for several years but he was responsible for pairing people together like diana ross and lionel ritchie he produced a lot of barbara streisands albums he was the reason that dolly parton recorded here you Come Again.

He actually got her to listen to that cassette in some hotel room.

It was written by Cynthia Weil and Barry Mann.

And that song, and they, I guess, had given it to my dad to give to Dolly.

And it's like this whole story.

She didn't want to hear it.

And then he got her to listen to it and it became her crossover.

Like, that's how she got into pop from country.

But yeah, and she'll talk about that.

She has talked about that when she was on my radio show.

Oh my God, that is so cool.

I didn't

realize that.

So then he was very, so so he's been very iconic in the music world, basically.

Yep.

He was.

Yeah.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Did you ever work in the music world or not really?

That was never your

no, I didn't really want to go.

I mean, I, so I always sang like I can sing, but I was never a songwriter.

So I, when I was a kid, I was like, oh, I want to be on Broadway or I want to do that kind of thing, but I wasn't ever going to be a pop star or any of that kind of stuff.

Cause I, he was very big on people writing music and he worked with like the greats of the great

so that's what i kind of grew up around i've never heard of spking that like so they went wilson phillips um arrested development technotronic vanilla ice he was responsible for vanilla ice really oh yeah ivan ram is like the nicest guy he's a sweetheart yeah okay by the way you just like named my entire childhood right mine too that's that's yeah that was our i mean yeah it was i didn't know why didn't you ever tell me this?

This is like a big deal.

That's cool.

Because, you know, it was cool.

It was just my life.

Like, it wasn't, he was very much

just a dad.

Like, he wasn't, I don't know how to explain it.

Like, I was in the studio a lot with him when I was a kid.

Like, it was just part of our lives.

So it wasn't,

you know, I, and I was also a, um, I was a really good kid.

Like, I wasn't doing anything crazy or outlandish or I wasn't, I just, I just liked the music and I was nerdy.

So like, I liked going to concerts because I just really liked them.

I was never, I never got in trouble.

I wasn't, I don't know.

I love Wilson Phillips.

They, they came to visit me when I was in college.

Like, I still, yeah, sometimes they'll talk to Carney.

Like, it was just, at the time, it was just all fun.

That's all.

Oh, my gosh.

No, but like, it sounds like it was a label.

Like, it was all that 90s music was.

I literally grew up on.

Yeah, yeah, it was.

It was great.

Did he find them or how did he

happen?

So I think he signed Vanilla Ice and Wilson Phillips.

He definitely signed both of them and Technotronic.

I'm trying to think of that.

I think you know, I mean, everyone knows at this point, I feel like they do, that the best music business story really involves my brother and my dad, because my brother went to college at Tufts University.

I went there too after him.

But when Brian was at Tufts, he saw Tracy Chapman perform in a club or a, I think it was like a bar, whatever.

And he got my father to come see Tracy.

And he had a, like my brother was dabbling in the music business a little bit, but like that when he was still in college.

And he said to my father, if you don't come and you don't come see her, I'm going to take her to Clive Davis and he's going to sign her.

So he got my dad to come to Boston to see Tracy perform.

And then my dad signed Tracy.

And then, well, we know it's, you know, we, we know, we all know the story.

That's an amazing story.

However, whatever happened to her?

Like, wasn't she?

Well, just this year, Fast Car just came back at the Grab Me's.

Yeah, but but she had that one hit like she had that one album that was uh a massive you know for anybody who doesn't we're probably aging ourselves but we she had a massive massive album and then she disappeared and then she didn't she didn't disappear she kind of did her own thing and she was a very true to herself songwriter tracy chapman's talent is absurd i mean like her voice her song her lyric everything about what she does her performing is really she's unbelievably talented.

And so I think she did what she did through the years.

And then when Luke, what's his last name?

The guy

Bryan.

No, Luke Bryan's on the wait.

No, Luke Bryan's on the, yeah.

But when he decided to do the song.

Fast Car.

Right.

Luke Wilson.

No, Luke Bryan.

No, no, no.

Fast Car was redone by Luke Holmes.

Thank you.

Okay.

So Luke Holmes redid it.

Yeah.

Do you edit these things?

No, I want people to know know because this is actually interesting to me.

He redid that song and made it massive again.

Well, let me tell you what, what was so cool about how he redid the song.

He redid it without changing any of the lyric.

So he was a guy singing about a guy and or singing about it was he didn't change it.

And so it stayed true to.

form what the original lyrics were and so that was kind of magical i'm not even sure he changed the key.

So when the song came out and he did that version and he brought it to the top of the charts again, it reinvigorated the song and she got the credit and she got the money and she got, you know, the cut that she should and got the full credit.

And he did everything the way he should have in giving her.

And so, and then she got honored at the Grammys and got to go and do

the song with him.

And watching her perform was so cool because it was like, she hasn't aged a bit, like she was luminous.

Like, I don't know, everything I started crying, hysterically crying when I listened.

It was to me, it was a magical moment.

Can I tell you something?

You're not alone.

I absolutely and I don't even have that close, like your dad bound her or

your brother, or your brother signed her with your dad, I would imagine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My brother got my dad to sign her.

To sign her, but what I find interesting is, even without that connection, the way that he, that Luke Holmes created and did that whole thing, Yeah.

It was obviously very moving for a lot of people because I remember watching that and it was not

only was it nostalgic, but he really respected the whole art and process.

And by the way, she does look phenomenal.

She's she ate radiant beautifully.

Didn't she?

Beautifully.

Yeah, radiant, gorgeous.

Yeah.

And she sounds incredible.

She sounded just as good today as she did back then.

Yes.

And he was so, he was such a gentleman.

Like, I remember thinking to to myself wow this is such a gentleman like he really was very gracious in how he performed the song how he did this song yes but what what's so interesting to me is that that just shows you that when something is really good it does stand the test of time timing

right because that song became a number one song again 25 years later with another artist yeah it was and and and he didn't change like you said he kept it very pure to what it was yeah i found that to be amazing.

Not to make this whole episode about Tracy.

That's okay.

But I will ask you another question: like, you know, because she was such a talent and she had that massive album, why was it not a follow-up album?

Do you know?

She had a follow-up album.

She had other albums.

But

it didn't.

You just don't know.

Yeah, I mean, I think that that's the music business.

And I mean, we see that all the time that certain artists have an easier time with sort of a hit after hit after hit.

hit, but it doesn't mean that the songs on the next album are any less great than the ones that made it big.

I mean, that's the thing about art, especially now where there is so many, I mean, there's just the market is saturated with people who are quote unquote songwriters today and quote unquote artists and music.

And so like sometimes the really extraordinary artists don't get heard the way that they should.

It's just, that's how it, I mean, I know a lot of, I mean, there are many performers through the years that like should have popped off and then they didn't and you're just like why not i don't know it's just it's just i know

sometimes i worked with a lot of that and i remember when people people would sign me with vigor like oh my god you're gonna be the next whitney houston you're gonna be the next

and then they get dropped after like you know and because it's a shift and change and executives yeah people change and the truth of the matter is like the people who are the most well-known are never the most talented it's like what for it's a plethora of reasons, what makes them pant, like all the best music are the ones that are kind of obscure that you don't even know about to this day, you know, or very crazy.

Or think about, yeah, think about some of your favorite songs from gone up or some of the things that like may not have been mainstream or may not have been like what everybody listened to, but you just loved that song or you loved that performer or that performance.

It's just what speaks to you.

And I don't know, you're right.

It's a different, but it's a different world altogether.

I mean, that success success is different now.

And how people get like, well, people, and I'm sure they say this to you all all the time.

And I'm sure people come to you and they're like, well, Jen, how do I launch a podcast?

How do I make a podcast?

How do I do this?

How do I do what you're doing?

How do I do?

How do I get signed by someone?

And I don't even really think that's a thing anymore.

I mean, I think you have to, like, a perfect example is this Risa Tisa, who did this whole thing.

Do you know the story where she talked?

Okay.

So there's like a hundred part or 80 part or 90 part TikTok series by this Risa Tisa about her husband and catching him or her boyfriend.

I don't know if he was her boyfriend or her husband, but she caught him in a thousand lies.

I mean, it's, I'm going to get you the exact name of the thing.

So, so, oh, it's who the fuck did I marry?

So it's who TF did I marry was the title of the series that she did on TikTok.

And every day she gave a piece of this story and they were long and in-depth.

Anyway, at the end of all this, she has, I'll tell you how many followers.

So she has 3.7 million followers on TikTok and she amasses following over the course of maybe three weeks or something insanely short time.

And after all that, now she's signed by CAA and now she's like, has a career, but she did it.

And I explained to people, I'm like, you, the way you get an agent or the way you get a gig or the way you get this or you get that is you have to start doing.

Like it's not nobody, it used to be that scouts, talent people would see you somewhere and they would, you know.

By the way, Jenny, this is, this is a conversation I have.

Not only do I have it daily, I have it hourly.

Yeah.

Because at the end of the day, people don't want to do the work.

Correct.

It's crazy.

Right.

They don't want to do the work.

They look, they look just out to

the outside and feel like, okay, I'm going to manifest this, but without the hard work, you're not manifesting shit.

Like,

dude, we, I think we talked about this the first time we spoke on my pod when you were on my podcast.

I get so incensed and freaked out by that because I'm like, first of all, and I see it in myself.

I see when I will complain about certain social media things and I'm like, well, I don't really feel like making a video that looks beautiful, that involves my editing, that I have to now place my baked potato over here and make sure it's like so and do this and do that.

Like, I don't want to freaking do my whole day anymore online.

I don't.

And so my numbers are going to reflect that.

That's on me.

People want this like instant recognition, and it's strange because it's not real.

Like, you have to work every day at whatever is the thing that you want, whether it's you want your body to look a certain way or you want to feel a certain way.

How about that?

How about the fact that, like, I know when I'm in a bad mood, if I sit on the couch and stay there, my mood's not going to get better.

If I get up and force myself to do jumping jacks, or run around my house, or engage with my dogs, or do something, take any freaking action, I'll start to feel better.

Doesn't mean that I do that each time, but that's the thing that people are missing when they start to say, like, oh, I'll never get this, I'll never do that, I'll never be here.

Well, what, like, what step did you take?

Because you're definitely not, you're definitely not going to be a superstar the first week that you've started posting your YouTube videos with your four subscribers.

It doesn't happen like that.

It might take you two years, but it's not ever going to happen unless you like take those four subscribers and start making content that's directed toward them or subscribers.

By the way, it goes with any piece of life.

Anything.

Anything in life.

I feel like there's, there's no, no one's coming to save you.

No one's, no one's going to do the work for you.

Right.

Even again, like I'm now signing this whole other, a couple different things.

You know, like just to kind of, I don't know if you remember this, but do you remember me telling you last time that this podcast was signed to be a TV show for NBC many years ago.

And it was a signed TV show and it sat there.

And I thought to myself, once I got that, once I got this thing signed, okay, I'm off to the races.

Okay, great.

I'll have a production cup team and

they'll pay for the fees and

actually get the book, the

guests.

And it was smooth sailing.

Well, that was a total, you know, that the wool was definitely pulled, you know, over my eyes because that is absolutely the antithesis of what actually happens what happened it sat there and sat there longer and longer and longer and nothing happened until a year turned into a year and a half almost two years and i'm like what the

all right this is ridiculous i'm going to just do this as a podcast and i'm not going to let someone else tell me what my debts

be let's just see what happens so i just started doing it myself and then eventually you know funnily enough recently now people are coming back to me they're like you know what you could make a great tv show have you thought of that yeah have you thought of that

have you thought of that and the funny thing is the funny thing is even when it's now that it's a proven concept or this is for anything this is not about this podcast but anyway what happens typically is you have to you have to show people the the the actual yeah proof of concept yeah the proof of concept in anything is it a podcast is it a tv show is it a piece of art is it whatever you're trying to do and then because people are lazy once they see that something's working they'll come knocking on your door And even when they do come knocking on your door, they still won't do the work, they still sit there on the sidelines and want you to do everything.

So, the business model has completely changed.

You're right.

You get an agent once you already have a master once you have a job,

right?

Correct.

Once you have a job, once you have all the followers, once you have all the brand deals, once you have all the business, then they want a piece of it.

But no one really helped you get to that piece except you.

You've got to do the work.

Unfortunately, that this, no matter how many years go by, no matter how many people say whatever the hell they're saying on social media about manifestation and oh, mom, um, do the freaking work or else it will happen, right?

Manifestation is useless without the work, it doesn't mean a thing.

I could wish till I'm you know, blue in the face that X, Y, and Z is going to be, but if I'm not actually doing it, not going to happen just as it, yeah, I do believe that there's something to be said about visualization and

thinking about it, but then while you're thinking about it, what are you doing?

What are you applying in actual physical set in the physical step, that's the thing.

Yeah, look, it's sort of like how we talk to ourselves matters, right?

So you tell yourself you're a loser every day, you're probably going to feel like a loser.

And I'm not saying that we don't, I call myself a loser all the time in my loser moments, but in my core, I don't actually think I'm a loser.

I just, we all have those moments of like negative self-talk.

But I guess if you are taking steps toward the thing you want in your brain and talking to yourself in your brain and doing that like manifestation work and then at the same time actually either putting pen to paper or taking the steps outside or making those calls and sending those emails.

I know it's hard.

It is really hard.

I'm working on getting back into my legal career and it is hard.

But you know what?

I'm sending out the emails.

I'm sending out my resume.

I'm meeting with people.

I'm expressing my worth and it is hard.

It's actually painful, but I'm doing it anyway.

And that's the thing.

I think people don't sometimes do the things like you're talking about, not because of laziness.

I think it's a lot of fear.

I think it's a lot of hesitation because people are so conflict averse and rejection averse.

And I get it.

I, who likes the feeling of, of any of those things, but I don't know without them, like, what's the worst thing that happens when someone says no to you?

It feels shitty in the moment.

Like you're like, oh, God, someone doesn't.

like me.

It's usually not about like or whatever, but it feels that way.

But if you don't, I don't know, you got to learn to weather that and you have to try.

Cause if you don't try, then none of those things that you're like wishing and hoping for are going to happen.

None, zero, nothing.

You don't try, you don't get.

Listen, I believe in two things.

I say do it even when you don't want to.

Yes.

You know, and what is the worst that can happen?

I live by those mottos.

I say it all the time.

I talk about that all the time.

I live that all the time.

Half the should I do, probably more than half the should I do.

Do you think I want to be doing it?

No.

Oh.

I don't want to do it.

But I don't want to get it.

Like, do you think I want to be working out and running on a treadmill when I don't feel well and I'm tired?

And no, but if I want to get the result, I don't think about what I have to do.

And I think about what I feel after the fact, not what I feel like before the fact.

Yeah.

That's yeah.

And also, you know, motivation, you know, there's no such thing.

But what I was going to say to you about that for you.

There is no such thing as motivation.

There's no such thing as I think, well, you can get it for a moment or two and it lasts

wings.

It's not something that you can rely on.

but the other thing is you're bunny glass thing right like yeah i didn't know like you started this like eye i so yeah company you told me about this years ago by the way bunny eyes yeah a couple pairs yep

and yeah it was what are they called so they're called bunny eyes what are they called though they're called bunny eyes

that's okay they're they are named after my mom so my mom's name was bunny that's how we got that's how oh that's how you got to bunny eyes oh okay yeah

and they are yeah they're the first wearable tiltable and flippable reading glasses.

They're patented and they're really cool.

And we embed them.

They're really cool.

But don't even, I want to explain this why I'm bringing this up.

It's on the segue into like what we just talked about.

You started this in 2017.

Well, we launched the brand.

Yes, but we went, we launched the brand June of 2018, but we discussed started the talks in 2017.

Yeah.

But then I just saw you on Shark Tank like eight months ago.

So when did I actually do Shark Tank?

So we did Shark Tank.

So here's, here's the story.

We, so I had this idea to make reading glasses that you could hold in your hand because I, when I would get my hair colored, I had perfect vision until I was 44 years old.

When everything got blurry and I couldn't read, I needed readers.

I found it really annoying that every time I got my hair colored, I couldn't wear them because the color would go on the sleeve of the temple rather than on my hair.

And that annoyed me.

So I was sitting with my sister.

We were at the beauty parlor and she looked annoyed too.

And I was like, why are you annoyed?

And she's like, because I can't read while I'm getting my hair done.

I was like, wait a minute, stop.

No.

So we start Googling.

We look them up.

They don't exist.

We have a mom that she knew from school who was in the eyewear business from her kids' school in the eyewear business.

I reach out to her.

I go to her at a diner.

I bring glasses that I made with chopsticks that look like this.

And I'm holding a pair of bunny eyes where they're in that position where the temples are down.

You could hold them in your hand.

And so Andrea, our partner, was going to China like a week later.

She ended up going to China and coming back with a prototype of these wearable, tiltable, and flippable reading glasses, which again, you can, you can wear them.

You can tilt the front of the frame so you can make eye contact with someone and then also read on your phone.

And you can hold them in your hand to get your hair done.

Or if you're on your side, lying in your bed, sleeping, one temple is down, then the temple doesn't dig into the side of your head.

They're very, very cool for reading glasses.

So company does great year one and year two.

And then year three was the pandemic.

And then our dad got sick.

And my sister and I, like the way we talk about it is we failed our product.

Like the product didn't fail us.

We failed it.

And so that plus the supply chain issues, because that's the other thing.

Like I believe in owning what you've done wrong.

And so that we ended up going to Shark Tank because we needed the help.

It wasn't prior to that, we didn't feel we needed the help and the company did really, really well.

But the sort of reboot and growth of it required we felt a shark.

And so, yeah, we applied and went through even that, by the way, because people are like, can you get me on Shark Tank?

And I'm like, what?

Like people message me and be like, how did you do it?

Can you get me on Shark Tank?

I want to do Shark Tank.

And I'm like, okay, good.

So totally apply.

But let me just give you the heads up.

When you apply to Shark Tank, it is a rigorous process to get on the show.

And you don't even know whether you're going to be on the show and have an air date until right before it airs.

You just don't know.

They don't let you know till two weeks before your actual air date.

So we shot it in June and it didn't air till mid-November.

So you just, and you do the whole whole thing.

You, it takes, it was like 15 weeks of auditioning, 13 or 15 weeks of auditioning.

Audition part?

Well, you audition meaning the company.

So you have to give them the due diligence that they do is incredible because it's, it's real.

They're not like the sharks don't know anything about the people walking into the tank.

So like.

it's all the production that vets the companies and they really vet your brand.

You send your financials, you send your story, you make videos for them, you make several videos for them, you go back back and forth with your story the only scripted part of the whole thing is your pitch at the beginning it's all actually what goes on i mean they edit it after the fact but it's a very real serious process so it you have to be prepared to do that you have to be prepared as a company to do that so we're so you sat you sent in your financials before you bought the deal oh yeah you have to everyone has to because don't they do the due diligence after they decide to do a deal and then

they do financial yes yes yes but you look like an asshole and then you're not gonna have an air date if you go into the tank and you're in there based on lies and then you make a deal and then the shark and you're discussing the closing of the deal and everyone's looking at everyone's stuff and it's all fake or you've like left out some material information then they're not gonna air your segment because you're a lawyer No, no, but what I'm saying is, so you have to expose everything about your company even prior

to even getting a deal.

Yes.

You don't know you're going to get a deal until it happens in the tank.

No, what I'm

going to be getting on the show.

Listen, listen, listen.

Why I'm asking you this is because a lot of people I know who've gone on the show, they got a deal, right?

And then the deal, for one reason or another, never went through based on due diligence, based on all these other things.

Yeah.

So that's what I'm saying.

Like if they already had all this information initially, like the financials and all the other due diligence that they're asking for, quite frankly, why would those deals then dissipate and not go through if they really have the information?

Because they might have a more of a surface level information rather than like

how the company operates as a company, what the partners do or who does what or how it actually runs.

So due diligence when you're going to partner with someone goes deeper than the initial all about the company.

So they just want your service level finance.

Yeah, they want your number.

Yeah, they want your financials like your yeah yeah how much did you sell prior to being on the show how much did we oh how many so i got it we had done i think something like over five million dollars in business for four years or something like that so we did really well yeah yeah we did but then

that many we sold that many costs yeah to make that much money yeah to did that's gross sales that's not what you get to take home or back to the manicure money issue but yeah

are you kidding me no our company did great it's a great product that's why i said we failed our product it's a great product what i okay hold on a minute so then how much did you how much did you give away and how much did you get so the deal that we made was 15

i think

for like two hundred thousand dollars but the actual deal that we're making is a little bit different from that because it's just how you structure the deal everyone acts in good faith and then after the show you do your due diligence with the partner and you figure out what the right right deal is to be made for both of you so that it's a really synergistic connection.

And I have to say that Damon John is, I love the guy.

I love the guy.

He is just stand up, cool, great character, family guy.

Like we had a dinner with him, his two of his daughters, like his right-hand person.

Like he's just great.

He is lovely.

He's warm.

He's smart.

I can only say really incredible.

And

really acts in good faith.

Like he, even before we were as entrenched as we are, was like setting us up with people to meet, to add with distribution, throwing this idea, hooking us up with that person.

Like he's just, we are very lucky that he's the shark we partnered with.

Who else asked for our deal?

So no one, but they gave, like, Lori was really funny.

And I actually emailed her after thanking her because she, and they edited down a lot of it, but like in the tank, she said so many good things things about the brand.

And then, uh, and actually, what was on it is she was like, she called it a better mousetrap.

Like, she acknowledged like that they're better than every other reading glasses because they are, they just do more.

They just do more.

So, why, why not have something that gives you more than what had been available prior?

So, people can check them out at bunnyeyeswithize.com.

They're also on Amazon.

And yeah, I'm very, very proud of that.

I, I didn't know that I'd be an inventor.

Well, wait, so what's the price point of each pair?

$35 to $40.

Blue light blocking lenses are $40.

Not blue light blocking are $35.

There's some sun readers.

So wait a minute.

She didn't.

I thought this was like, this sounds to me like a perfect QBC.

Yeah, I don't know.

It wasn't.

And she didn't make a deal with you?

I think she just did it.

I don't remember what her reasoning was exactly.

I got to go back and watch.

But yeah, no.

And, but, and also Mark and Kevin didn't.

Kevin didn't think he could help us because he thought that anything he could provide, we'd already done.

And Mark sort of thought that too.

And Damon

sort of saw a path that he thought he could be helpful in.

So, I mean, very few products or people go in there with a $5 million.

Over the course of the years, yeah, but it's not, that's not how you, you know, it's, but no, but that's, I mean, but that whatever.

It's proof of concept.

It is total proof of concept.

Exactly.

And it does do so many different things.

So I would think it's a unique product.

You've, you've done well.

Like when you just said that number to me, I was like, what?

Like, I thought you were going to have to like that.

I thought you're going to estimate like 50,000.

Yeah.

But I don't know how, you know, I'm not a good marketer.

I've never been a great marketer.

I, so we need people who are sort of talented in that way in ways that we're not.

How much did you put into the company to make 5 million?

How much for ours?

So we each put in, I think it was $100,000 we put in as a group to launch it.

Okay.

And yeah, self-funded, still self-funded.

Yeah.

How were you marketing them?

I would be saying you say you're not a good marketer, but obviously you have to be somewhat of a good marketer or something.

How to tell you

the product spoke for itself.

Like people, what I am is I have good friends and I know people.

So anyone I gave them to fell in love with them.

So that was like a lucky break for me that people who had them in their hands started talking about them on social media, but I never paid anyone to do it.

And they were on TV a bunch of times without my knowing they were going to be.

I mean, there was crazy things that happened when we launched that I just didn't, I couldn't have, I couldn't have bought that kind of advertising.

Like code a copy, I gave him to her in the hallway at Series 67.

She put them on the Today Show like three times.

And I had no idea she was going to do that.

And it was incredible and kind and generous of her.

And I had no idea she was going to do that.

So

there was moments like that that, yeah, really helped our brand identity.

And yeah, so, and then people like Adam Glassman really wanted to help me and he is Oprah's creative director.

So Oprah magazine had done a feature on us at one point and just people saw them, fell in love with them because they were cool.

And so they, that was an easy, I guess, for, for those people, they wanted to talk about them because they thought they were so cool.

Like Deborah Messing got a pair and freaked out about them and talked about them, like that kind of thing.

And it was really nice.

Kaylee Cuoco did, I know Chelsea Handler loves them.

Like people who love them love them.

That's amazing.

I love that so much.

But I want them in everyone's hand.

Like I want them in, you know, across the country in just every pro because I think they're really useful.

No, that's, I love that they can do all these things, especially when you're in bed.

And when I get my hair, Sophia, you said I was getting my hair blown out, I think, a couple of weeks ago, and I have to always take off my glasses.

Correct.

And I'm like, oh my God, if I had this, this would be so amazing.

That's the point.

That's exactly right.

So

that's what that was.

So what is he going to do for you now?

What is Damon going to do now?

Well, he has a bigger reach than we do.

And we're strategizing some things with him and his team and

different opportunities that i can't speak about yet but we're just gonna blow this thing up that's our that's our goal that's true when when will we see more about like when will you blow it up like is there a trajectory well we've been doing well we've been doing really well since we were on the show and then we just and this is the thing about business like we just got new models and they are so gorgeous but they have something was like wrong on the production line so certain things have to be fixed in them and it's like you always have to deal with all different issues when you have a business.

It's never just smooth sailing.

It's never just like everything is as you planned it to be.

And it's like we were talking about it's every day there's a something that might require some sort of focus and attention.

And you can't do anything anymore thinking about the short game because there is none.

Like it just doesn't.

Yeah.

It just doesn't work.

Wow.

That's so exciting.

Jenny, I'm so happy for you.

That's so exciting.

It'll, yeah, it'll take time, but that's okay.

That's what it's supposed to do.

What a

really fun and exciting opportunity at your fingertips right now that you're working on.

Oh, my God.

I'm so excited for you.

Thanks.

I know that you're welcome.

All right, Jenny, I'm going to wrap you up now because

like we were just talking about the podcast.

I'm like, oh, shoot, here I am.

I'm now going over and over and over.

And I know that I was like trying to keep it at least to an hour.

You're so funny.

Yeah.

But, you know, this is what I do.

I, I'm curious and ask a lot of questions.

But But everyone, go check out, what is it called?

BunnyEyes.

Yeah, Bunny Eyes.

Uh-huh.

Bunny Eyes with a Z.

BunnyEyes.com.

And listen to Jenny's, Jenny.

And Jenny Hutt.

Go see Jenny Hutt and her sister Stacy.

But what do you call it?

Jenny Hutt podcast, right?

So it's the, it's Just Jenny with Jenny Hutt.

And it's Just Jenny still?

Yeah.

Okay, because her furious show is called Just Jenny.

Correct.

So I kept that.

So it's Just Jenny with Jenny Hutt.

And yeah, Saturdays with Stacey on my Just Jenny with Jenny Hut podcasts.

They're really fun.

I also have a Patreon where I post all the videos.

And that's just patreon.com slash Jenny Hut.

But yeah, you could get the podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

And it's fun.

It's just, yeah, it's good.

You do Patreon too?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, I'm trying to, you know, support the podcast somehow.

It's not, it's not great, but I'm trying.

I'm trying.

Listen, if anything here, we learn like A to be resilient and you have to try and try again.

That's how, that's how anything happens.

Look at this thing.

Look at this Shark Tank Blasta situation.

You were at it for years and you still went on shark tank.

Yes, even if you weren't even a baby brand at this point, you just needed help and you kind of thought, Hey, you know what?

Like, I thought I'm gonna think out of the box.

I'm gonna like, I'm gonna go on shark tank.

Like, you didn't think anything was too big, or too small, or too hard, or too daunting.

You just did it.

It's amazing.

I don't know if it's amazing, but that is true.

I draw, also, you know, what the last thing I'll leave you with: don't think too much about any other things, just do them.

You're preaching to the converted.

My whole thing is be be bold not smart girl yeah it's so true yeah just do it just do it like don't think but the more you overthink the less things happen then then you turn it you get analysis paralysis that's oh my god

it's so true it's so true thank you for having me on your podcast you know i think you're the greatest i think you are too jenny thank you so much for being on the podcast so i'm gonna wrap this up and just one second bye everybody