Episode 273: Ben Nemtin: Turning Struggles into Success

Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

So, Ben Nempton is on the podcast today, and he is so likable.

I get it now.

I did not get it before because this guy, first of all, he looks like he belongs in an Abercrombie ad.

You do, you really do.

He looks like he's 12 and belongs in an Abercrombie ad, and he is the number one, number two motivational speaker on the planet, according to him.

No, not according to him.

According to who?

Who did you say?

It's a group called Global Gurus.

They just rank speakers, but who knows?

Okay, oh, but it's on all of your stuff.

Well, that's what they said.

I mean, it's that's what they said.

And for good reason, this guy, so let me just, I'm late to the game, apparently, but you probably know of him already because he had a TV show on MTV called The Buried Life.

He wrote a hundred things that he wants to do before he dies and he accomplished them all, right?

And then gave back to people each one, everything that you accomplished on your bucket list, basically.

Then you gave someone else an opportunity to do that, correct?

That's exactly.

Yeah.

And then he became this like renowned

speaker talking about his whole experience.

And I was like, how did I not know who you are?

And I feel like a real dodo bird, but I'm so glad that I finally like.

You're not a dodo bird.

Thank you, Ben.

I appreciate that.

I appreciate that.

But thank you for coming on.

Thank you for having me.

It's great to be here.

You have a beautiful house and a beautiful little studio here.

Thank you.

See, I see why people like you and why you're number two.

You should be number one.

Wait, why are you not number one?

Simon Sinek has had the number one spot for two years.

And

he's very good.

He's very good.

Simon Sinek,

he was on this podcast.

He's number one still.

Really?

So what's it?

I'm curious, who's the top five?

Well, I mean, look, I have no business being in the top five, five but it tony robbins is number three and i was you i was

this year i beat him last year i was number three and he was number two and simon was number one so it's usually him and mel robbins and uh and and then someone else yeah so wow so mel robbins and who you don't know who number five i want to look at this list i'm really curious google global gurus motivational speakers i'm going to yeah and hopefully i'll see your name on there

let's record the podcast and then I'll leave and you can check it out.

I'm going to.

I'm actually going to.

So, I want to start from the beginning, even though I know you said this story a million times.

I want to start from the beginning of your journey.

Like, how did this whole thing happen?

Like, you looking at you, in all seriousness, you would think you have like a perfect life, right?

But you were super young.

Like, you accomplished all of these things, like, what, 15 years ago, right?

So, take me back and give me the origin of how this whole thing came to be.

So, I'm Canadian.

Me too, by the way.

No, yes.

That's why we have a thing.

That's why I'm telling you.

That's why.

Wow.

It all makes so much sense.

Like, I honestly cannot, not, not to interrupt or inter interject, but when you started speaking, when I was watching all your stuff and you talked about the Canada thing, because you said university, you didn't say college.

I was like, oh my God, this guy is Canadian.

I died.

And then I like, then I deep dived into your stuff and I'm like, okay, I love this guy.

Oh, that's great.

It is a thing.

It's a total thing.

We stick together, actually.

It's true.

Yep.

Again, why I have no clue how we're going to be.

Very.

Like real people.

And hilarious.

Super, I mean.

Obviously, like the best, most funny ever.

So, okay, so I'm growing up in Canada, which I can tell you exactly where it is because you'll know Victoria.

Yep.

That's small.

Very small.

I'm living on an island.

It's a big island.

It's not like I'm...

can see all the ocean from everywhere.

Right, right.

It's a big island, but still, it's a smaller town, but it's perfect.

It's Pleasantville.

It's like, you don't lock your doors, healthy lifestyle.

Your people are very happy, and it's a great place to grow up.

And rugby is really big in Victoria.

It's where the national team trains.

And rugby on the west coast is huge.

That's interesting.

I thought hockey would be huge there.

I saw that in your bio and stuff that you were playing.

It's not as big as on the east coast.

Hockey.

It's still the biggest sport, probably, but rugby, especially in Victoria, is big, very big.

Yeah.

So I'm on the rugby team and I make the under-19 national rugby team.

And we're training to go to Paris for the World Cup.

And I play fly half.

So I'm kicking the field goals, calling the plays, a lot of pressure.

And I always

really cared about what other people thought about me.

So like, you know, you're in high school.

That's a lot of people's experience.

You're trying to be cool.

You're trying to fit in.

And I think I really like embodied that.

I was like looking for validation.

So I academic, I was on the honor roll.

I had an academic scholarship to UVic, the University of Victoria.

I made the national rugby team.

Wow.

I was out and had like great circle of friends.

But in hindsight, I was living the dream, but it wasn't really my dream.

But I was doing it because it was the thing that success,

the success that I knew.

But I would worry.

about succeeding.

And I had missed a kick at the end of our high school championship game at the end of the game and we'd lost the game.

And it was devastating for me.

I was like, I fed up.

I blew it.

I'm going to choke, you know?

And so leading up to the World Cup, I thought, I can't do that again.

I can't miss an easy kick.

This is my shot.

And I'd ruminate about this at night.

And this like worry would come in.

And

I'd start to lose sleep.

And then I'd start to get anxiety.

And I started to ultimately get depressed.

And this anxiety took a grip on me.

And I wasn't able to go to school.

I'd drive to school and I couldn't get out of the car.

And I was like, What the fuck?

What's going on?

And then I couldn't go to rugby practice.

And it just kept getting worse because once I'd missed one, I thought, oh, what am I going to say?

What am I going to do?

And then I missed two.

And I'm like, oh my God, it's so much worse.

Now I've missed two.

So it was this spiral that started to go down.

And I couldn't, I was like, I can't get caught up with school.

And I just became the shut-in in my parents' house.

And I couldn't really leave the house.

And all of a sudden, I went from this guy that was super happy, had everything to my parents would push me out the door to do a 15-minute walk every day.

For how long did that last?

This is like two, three months.

Dropped out of school, got dropped from the national rugby team.

My friends would come by, but like eventually like, you know, I wasn't hanging out with anybody.

Wow.

And so this was the first mental health crisis I'd ever been through.

And I was thought I had lost everything.

Everything I had was gone, never coming back.

And the darkness was so deep that I was, I was terrified of it.

And so I was completely crippled.

And you were young.

And so did you ever ask a doctor?

Like, what was the that was?

I talked to the doctor.

You know, they put me on SSRIs on antidepressants.

I didn't really stay on them.

I didn't like the idea of it.

I was

kind of pushing everything away.

I didn't know any that this happened to people.

I just thought I was broken.

You know, I didn't know that other kids were going through something like this.

Even though you were totally fine, then the catalyst was that missed kick.

Yeah, like I think that it was, in hindsight, it was a lot of different things.

Like there was this pressure that I would always put on myself.

I, it was the mix of not sleeping.

You know, I have a biological tendency to slide down that slope.

You know, there was,

there was, ultimately, I didn't know myself and I didn't know what I needed to be happy.

So in hindsight, this list that I made was the first time that I had declared what I wanted to do.

and started following my path and ultimately started to move my life in the direction that was true to who I was.

And that was a huge part of me coming out of this.

So what I realized is that purpose has a huge impact on your well-being and mental health.

And also being true to who you are is a huge piece of this.

And that was the beginning of that journey of me discovering who I was was getting three friends, writing this list of the things that we'd always dreamed of doing, no intention of achieving any of them, but we just thought it'd be fun to try.

set out on an adventure for a two-week road trip to see what we could accomplish and see who we could help.

And

people heard about it and they wanted to help.

And all of a sudden, all these people from all over Canada wanted to help us achieve everything off our list.

It was national news, people sending us their dreams, asking for our help.

And we're like, oh my god, what is happening?

So, what I find interesting is before we even get into all that, like, I find it like, what, how did you go from even being that depressed, not being able to leave your house,

and then making the list with your three friends, right?

Like, and then having the, okay, that's a big jump from doing that.

And yeah, and I jumped away a big piece of it.

So this is what happened.

My friends came after I was in shut-in and they literally pulled me out of the house.

We're like, we're going to work in Banff, Alberta for the summer.

You're coming with us.

And I didn't want to go.

We were like, help me pack my bags.

And, you know, and I was forced to start to do things that were good for me.

I was forced to get a job.

So I started to feel some self-worth and some calfness.

I was forced to start to talk about what I was going through to my friends.

I was pushed into getting a therapist.

I was forced to meet new people.

And I started to realize that these new kids I was meeting in this new town, they were, they gave me energy.

So I started to meet kids that were like entrepreneurs or they traveled or they were different types of kids.

I was like, fuck, these guys, I feel energized being around these people.

So you changed your environment.

I changed my environment and I started to do small things that now I know are good for me.

At the time I didn't know.

Right.

Small steps.

and moving towards positive habits of things that were good for me incrementally.

Slowly i started to feel better the big thing was finding a therapist but it was all of these things in combination that i started to feel as well as then a decision that i made after that summer away i was like i am only going to surround myself with people that inspire me like the kids that i met in the in banff like yeah that's it i'm just going to find people that inspire me and those are the friends i'm going to hang out with because i need that Right.

But the three friends of yours, like who was the one of the four of you who was like, you know, let's make this list?

Was it you?

Was it someone else that that kind of gave you the spark?

Good question.

I came back from that summer away.

I was like, okay, I'd made this decision.

I'm only going to hang out with people that inspire me.

Uh-huh.

And there's one kid that came to mind, and he was a filmmaker from my neighborhood.

And his name was Johnny.

And I called up Johnny.

I was like, Johnny, you make movies.

I want to make a movie.

I realized that I'd wanted to make a movie, a documentary, because he had been making these short films with his buddies.

And I was like, that looks like so much fun.

I'd always wanted to make like a sketch show with my friends or a TV show or a documentary.

So I called him up.

I was like, he's at McGill.

I was like, you make movies, let's make a movie.

He's like, I was just talking to my friend Dave about something exactly like this.

I said, I know Dave from high school.

You call him.

I'll call your older brother.

Let's get together.

We can talk about this film.

We get together.

This is 2006.

Yeah, it's a crazy.

2006.

We talk on Skype.

We're like, what's this film going to be about?

And we kept losing.

this momentum and creative energy.

And finally, we're like, screw it.

Everyone, just make a list of all the things.

If you can make a movie about anything, what would it be?

We made this list, all four of us.

And then we came back and we all went through our list and everyone was excited about each one.

They're like, that one's a good one.

That one's a good one.

And someone said, why don't we do all these things?

And that's where the list started to form.

At the same time, Johnny was at English class at McGill, gets assigned a poem called The Buried Life.

Right.

The buried life is a 150-year-old poem written by an old English poet named Matthew Arnold, and it articulated the feeling we were feeling, which was that we had all these things that we wanted to do, but we'd never done them because they were buried.

And we had these moments when we got inspired in our life to do the things, but the day-to-day buried them.

Life always got in the way.

Something popped up that's more important.

So we push it.

And so we're like, that's the thing that we're feeling.

And he talked about it 150 years ago.

We're not the first people to feel like this.

Let's borrow this name.

We'll call this film The Buried Life.

And then we made a list of all of our buried dreams.

And we're like, okay, we're going to go after all of these dreams.

And then we're going to ask people the question, what do you want to do before you die?

Because for us, that was the only thing that shook us enough to realize what was important was thinking about death.

It's like, we're going to die.

What do we want to do?

So we ask other people that question and then.

we'll help them do that.

And we'll hit the road for a two-week road trip to tackle our list and help other people.

And then we'll make our film and then we'll go back to school.

Right, exactly.

And did you ever, did you finish your high school thing?

Because you dropped out.

So I dropped out of university and I did not go back.

You didn't go back?

I mean, if I meant university.

Okay.

So then you guys all gathered, accumulated your list together.

And then that was the list.

Yeah, and it was mainly things that we all wanted to do.

Okay.

There were some things that like one of us really wanted, like Dave really wanted to ride a bull.

That was crazy, by the way.

You didn't do it?

No.

I also had a herniated disc.

Oh, so that's a good idea that you didn't.

So then then my other question is, so of the list, you didn't necessarily do all a hundred.

You guys, did you guys divvy it up or you did the ones that you wanted?

Dave did the ones like you guys.

Most of them we did together.

Most of them you did together.

So of the 100, you did the majority.

Like you did.

Most of them.

And then like some of them we did on our own.

And then the other thing too is like I've added a lot more to the list than that's in like the original 100.

I was going to ask you about that.

You probably have a whole new list.

Yeah, because as you grow, your list grows and changes with you.

So that's the idea.

But the original 100 is sort of almost ceremonial like I am actively going after the last four things on the list still yeah.

Oh, I thought the list was done.

No 96 of 100 96 of 100.

Okay, so which four are left go to space make a movie.

I think it's cover rolling stone.

Oh, yeah, that you didn't I saw that you didn't get that one.

Yeah.

And the go to space I knew yep.

And

host Saturday Night Live.

So you have four left to do.

Oh my gosh.

Okay.

So I was like, what if these like, so those are on the old list and how many do you have on your new list it's very it changes you know like i so the the idea is for me is

that your list becomes a way of life because your list is a reflection of all the things that are going to bring you true joy and happiness and it's a reflection of your true self so you get buried by the day-to-day this is the reality most people at the end of their life they regret the things they didn't do and those are the things that are typically on what i think your list should be so your list is not just bungee jump.

It's not just skydive.

It's not just travel to Italy.

That's adventure and travel-related goals is one of 10 categories that you think about.

That's what's in the bucket list journal.

10 different categories of life.

Really, what I think you're trying to do is figure out what your true course is.

And there's this great line in the Buried Life poem called Tracking Our True Original Course.

And I believe that is our...

sole goal is unlocking the gifts that only we have.

I totally agree with that.

And I think most people, there's too much fear to move towards those things.

But I believe everyone has a responsibility to unlock those gifts because you're the only person that is able to do that.

I can't do what you do.

These are things that you are born with and you have

an innate ability that only you have.

Therefore, you have a responsibility.

But you know what?

I think a lot of times people don't even know what they don't know, right?

So, but what I think what you also said was it's interesting because you're right.

Like it's, I believe there are buckets in the bucket list, right?

Like, not everything, you're not going to self-actualize by just go by bungee jumping and helliskiing, right?

Like, that's in a bucket of adventure and cool shit to do, right?

What are the other buckets within the bucket list that you think are super important?

Relationships.

Because one of the top five regrets of the dying is I wish I would have stayed in contact with friends.

So we don't invest in the relationships that are important because there's no deadlines to do so.

And so we push them under the rug.

That's the point.

We don't tell people how we really feel as well because it's uncomfortable.

So that's another, I think that's in the relationship category.

Intellectual, what do you want to learn?

I think creative, the creative bucket is huge as well because for me, what I realized when I told you that when I started this process back in 2006, I started to feel this sense of purpose and well-being because I was.

creatively expressing myself.

I was starting to make this film with my friends.

And I realized that creative expression is just your true self coming out like purely, right?

When you do something like sing or play an instrument or dance or do art, there's no, you're not thinking how to do it.

You're expressing this true expression, which puts you into a flow state, which is also therapeutic.

So I think creativity is an often overlooked pillar of wellness and it's also a category of life that you want to think about.

And then you have mental health, you have physical health, you have finance, your financial goals, goals, you have your professional goals, you have how do you want to give back?

That's another big one, impact and adventure travel.

And these

are not weighted any differently.

There's no rules with the bucket list.

The only rule is that it's important to you.

And don't minimize these things that you may tell yourself are not important.

Like even something like Bungee Jump or go to yoga or learn the violin.

You think, ah, you know what?

Like I can, I can skip my violin class.

Like the family needs me or this and this.

and like yes you have responsibilities But don't undermine the importance of these small things that energize you to be who you truly are so that then you can take care of those around you no I think that's exactly true and I think why this is like you've struck a chord for so long for so like you know with so many people is because everybody knows that to be true and then our own life gets in the way right and the things that we think are so important are not that important like oh we gotta like work an hour longer we're gonna send this email we gotta do this we we gotta do that.

And those are the stupid minutia things in life that make us not do the things that really fulfill us.

And so, I guess, like, this is just me talking, but okay, first of all, have you heard of Build Your Life Resume with Jesse Itzler?

He does something very similar.

It's like very, I feel like a lot of people now are jumping on this bandwagon that you started 2000 in 2006, right?

Like, and people are recognizing the importance of it because their life is like speeding up up fast.

Right.

So how do people take action?

Like we talk about them had like, you know, take action, momentum.

How does someone who's not naturally that way start?

Sit down, grab a journal and write your list.

That's the first step.

Write your goals down because it forces you to slow down and think about what's important to you.

So the first piece is slowing down to reflect and actually check in and think about, okay, what do I want?

Or check in with your partner?

What do we want?

Or check in with your family?

What do we as a family, what's important to us?

What are our goals?

Where do, so that you can live with intention.

A lot of times, though, the family is the reason why, unfortunately, I'm being totally frank, is the reason why a lot of people's like personal, individual self-actualization doesn't happen because they have kids and they have responsibilities and they have obligations.

And then those obligations are louder than anything else because of guilt and everything else that that happens.

So, so let's put that aside for now in terms of like the, I think it's a great exercise to do with your family and your partner, but let's just look at your goals because those need to come first.

And you got to serve yourself in order to be able to show up as the best version of yourself, to be the best mom, to be the best dad, to be the best partner, et cetera, et cetera.

So it feels selfish, but it's actually not.

And it's a balance.

And I understand that, you know, there's just the reality of life where you can't sometimes do that.

But I think that it's important to go through this process where you start to identify the things that are important to you and put them down on paper.

Because when you write something down, it builds accountability.

Totally.

Because you take something that doesn't exist and you make it real.

So now your goal, your dream is in front of you.

It's tangible.

So you've actually created accountability.

Now you have a reminder that it exists so that when you get buried by the day-to-day, you're able to come back to that and be like, here's my North Star.

So you also force yourself to slow down to think about the things that are important to you when you write your list or you write down your goals.

And it kind of is the easiest first step.

And that's what you want to do is you want to take the most approachable first step because it's like pushing a boulder, right?

That first step is always the hardest.

But once you get it going, you create momentum.

Most people don't take the first step.

So what's the easiest thing?

Write it down.

If you feel overwhelmed by looking at a blank piece of paper and thinking, what are all my goals and dreams?

Break it up into the categories of life.

What are my physical health goals?

What are my mental health goals?

Like, what is it something?

Anything that's going to bring me a sense of well-being?

How do I want to give back?

What are my relationship goals?

You know, adventure travel.

Like, you can use the Bucket List Journal website just to look at those categories.

So that's the first step.

You write them down.

The second step is to choose one goal that you feel is very important to you that you want to move towards.

And if you can't think about that, you can imagine that you come across a magic lamp and a genie pops out.

and genie's like, it's your lucky day.

I'm going to help you accomplish one thing on your list.

but by helping you do this thing, you can never do anything else on your list.

So what do you choose?

That will probably be the most important thing.

The most important thing.

So this is your thing.

And now you start to share.

You talk about it.

Because when you talk about it, you build more accountability.

And again, like if you look at the research out of Cornell, there's a psychologist named Dr.

Gilovich who found that There's three barriers that stop us from pursuing these personal passions.

There's no deadlines.

So we have to create accountability.

You're usually waiting to feel inspired or you're waiting for the perfect time, but you create your own inspiration through action and the fear of what other people think or fear of failure stops you.

So you look at the fear and we can talk about that.

But so those are the problems you're trying to solve.

So anything you can do to create accountability, that to me feels like the key.

Because if you look at the workplace, all we have at the workplace are structures of accountability.

Accountability works.

You have leaders to keep you accountable.

You have a salary, keeps you accountable.

You don't want to let down your team that keeps you accountable.

You don't want to look bad that keeps you accountable.

That's why you do the work.

That's why you stay late and do the email.

All those things.

How can you take those same structures of accountability, build them around the personal goals?

You write down your goals, you talk about them.

So you feel like if I tell you, you know, I am going to go heli skiing next year, it's my number one thing on the list.

And I bump into you and you're like, oh my God, how's Helly?

Like, are you going?

And it's like, shit, I'm like, I better book that trip, right?

I totally agree.

So you share it and you take that goal, you break that goal down into the easiest three steps you can do in the next 48 hours and you get someone to keep you accountable, an accountability buddy.

Yeah.

So I say, Jen, I'm going heliskiing.

I want you to be my accountability buddy.

I'm going to send you updates anytime.

Like, boom, I just booked the trip.

You know, I just, I'm going skiing this weekend to do cat skiing, to train.

You know, you're 77% more likely to achieve your goal if you send regular updates to an accountability buddy.

Or maybe you check in on me.

How's helisking training going or whatever?

Like if you're writing a book, you can see this actually like works really well.

I'm like sending you the chapters.

Like, fitness.

I mean, it's like you train with the quarters.

That's all it is.

Well, anything.

And also, the truth of the matter is, all these things that people think, like you were saying, and I say this all the time, that seems selfish.

Like, there's a non-negotiable in my life.

Like, I need to work out every day.

I don't care, like, from hell or high water.

If I don't, I'm not good to anybody.

I'm like in a terrible mood.

I'm not as efficient.

I'm not as effective.

I feel gross.

And so, therefore, that kind of comes out, right?

So, I think you do have to take care of yourself to be the best version of you in every other area of your life.

I think people say they sometimes try to convince themselves that it's selfish so then they don't have to act.

I think we have a lot of excuses in our brains of why we're not doing what we want to do, should do because of the fear, because of the self-doubt, or just because sometimes pure like laziness to start.

Yeah.

You know?

And so that's what I was going to say.

But what of all the stuff,

what was your thing, the number one, if you had the genie that you thought was the number one thing?

Ooh, like back then or now?

Yeah, back then and now.

I mean, I...

So if a genie said you could pick one.

I think for back then it was make a TV show.

That was the big dream.

That was the big dream.

Make a show with my friends for my friends.

So good.

And then I want to talk about that.

What is it now?

Now it's it's make a make a movie.

It's uh make the documentary the buried life documentary.

so the fact that this is still going on i said this to you before we started like you've like milked this whole bucket list more i mean it's god bless you you've done an amazing job at milking it for like 18 years already you're going around talking about it all the time you did the show like it's like you but are you at all sick of talking about it be honest like a little no honestly no because it's changed and i think that like and this is something that we were talking about before but you have this thing that you do and you do it and then you get tired of it and then you either keep doing it and become unhappy and you're in a job that you don't like for a long time right or

you change right but what happens is like when you do something and you run out of inspiration and you create space you can get re-inspired by that thing and so i took like four or five years building a production company with the same guys and we did other TV shows and stuff like that.

And then I did it, I got invited to do a TEDx talk.

I did the TEDx talk.

That was eight years ago.

Yeah, right?

Yeah.

Someone saw it two years later.

I got invited.

I started speaking five years ago and I did this talk on my own and I was like energized.

I was, I was just knew right away.

I was like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

I got re-inspired because I found just my own expression of what this is.

I re-imagined what it was.

And then I started to like peel back the onion.

Yeah.

And I was like, oh my God, this is so much deeper than we thought.

I read the article by Dr.

Gilovich that that talked about 76% of people on their deathbed, their biggest regret is not living for them.

They live for other people or they live a life that they thought they should live and they die and they look back on their life and they're like, fuck.

So true.

I blew it.

Three quarters of the population.

I was like, how are not more people talking about this?

This is the biggest problem we are facing as human beings.

If this is our biggest regret, so how do we solve this problem?

And I realized.

That's all I've been doing.

The list is a reflection of who you truly are.

And most people don't even know that they're not living the life that they should be living.

And I realized that there's this huge connection between mental health and purpose, which is when I started to share my story of my depression.

And I realized that this unlock of purpose as a driver to fuel you to be who you truly are and feel like you're mentally just able to express yourself.

And I just started like going deeper and deeper.

And then I realized, oh shit, there's all these applications in the workplace too.

Like people stay at a company where they feel like they can be the true expression of theirselves.

So leaders should encourage their teams to follow their dreams, not try and keep them, but enable them to find purpose outside of work and find purpose inside work so that they feel fulfilled and they stay in an environment where they feel like they can be that true self.

And that's why I keep going back to companies again and again, because you...

Once you create an environment where people feel like they can just be themselves, they want to stay.

I was going to say the opposite.

Like I would say, I'm shocked that Coke and Walmart want you because I would think that you would go up there and give people this like resurrection.

Like, f it, I don't want to be doing this stupid job.

I want to like live my life.

I want to like become a chef or I want to like move to Italy or whatever it is.

And that would be very scary for companies to have someone like you give people that like inner so and it and it used to be that was the main way of thinking when I first started speaking.

And I had to be very careful with how I positioned my talk.

And what I've realized and what I think happened over COVID and now leaders are starting to realize is that it's much more costly for them.

Mental health is the biggest cost to companies for disability and it's the biggest cost to productivity.

Full stop.

It is more costly for them to not address their team's mental well-being and purpose and fulfillment than it is to have some people who feel like they shouldn't be there leave.

And if you're in a company where people like you want to leave, you're not doing a good job.

Right.

So you're checked out.

You're coasting.

So it's better for you to find someone.

And that actually takes like then connecting back to what is our purpose?

How are we actually making an impact in the world and in our people?

And they create these programs that are pretty, pretty amazing.

And so it's, and if you look at the research, and that's why there's a great book called The Dream Manager by Matthew Kelly, which talks about this exact same model of identifying a dream and then keeping the team accountable to that dream, you build an affinity towards your leader.

You build an affinity towards your team.

You start to, you create a culture where there's peer-to-peer facilitation of dreams, right?

And then you have community and then you have people helping each other achieve these things and everyone is rising.

You got to work.

You got to make money.

There's going to be things about work that you don't like, but you, great example, you can have two people that are doing the exact same job.

working the exact same amount of hours and one person can be completely burnt out and one person can just be a ball of energy.

And a lot of times, it's because when they leave work, they're doing things that fuel them.

So, that's exactly what I was going to say.

I don't necessarily think that people have this conception that your work has to be your purpose.

Great, it's a great point, right?

Like, why does that necessarily have to be correlated?

Why can't you work because you need to make money and then live the rest of your life for purpose?

They don't have to be connected.

It's dangerous sometimes if they're connected because when your passion becomes your work, then your passion becomes a business.

And when your passion becomes a business, then that means it's about money and you compromise the creative integrity and the purity of your passion.

So you're an entrepreneur.

You understand that.

I understand that there is, there's great beauty in just following the things that you love to do just to do them because they fill you up.

100%.

And you look at like, sometimes I envy people that have a nine to five because I'm like, you start your job at nine, you're done at five.

100%.

I'm never done and I love the idea of just clocking out and just doing whatever I want until 10 p.m.

I know something happened we got it twisted somewhere because what happened was people started to think that being an entrepreneur was sexy yep and it became a really cool hashtag and that working for the man or corporate or whatever is

nasty and selling out yep when the reality is people don't the psychology of it has been twisted the reality is it's a lot easier to have a job you go to, do your thing.

Are you okay?

Do you want a bib?

Then spilling is basically trying to sip water.

It's a tone IQ.

I feel like I'm in a different dimension.

I can just pour the water into my face and I'll absorb it through my skin.

He doesn't know.

He forgot how to sip from a glass.

It's okay.

I can get you a straw.

We don't learn that in the west coast of Canada.

You probably learned it.

How to sip from a cup or not to use a straw?

Yeah, yeah, both.

Or not to use a bib.

Either way, we can get you a bib if you'd like.

But the fact that there was something happened, I forgot what I was even saying, but I think I was on the track of there was something that got twisted with entrepreneurship, working for corporate America, and how that became evil.

And if you're doing that, then you're selling out and all these other things.

But the reality is, like, when you work from a job eight to four, kind of.

Actually, it's much easier.

You have your whole life to like do other things.

It is easier.

You know, I mean, so if it aligns with you and what you want to do.

So that I think is the distinction.

Like, I think if you have this dream to do something, which means you are then going to have to become an entrepreneur to start it, you have to do it.

Right.

You have to try it.

Even if it fails, that's great.

You tried it.

Now you won't have that regret at the end of your life.

Keep going.

Right.

You learned something about yourself, or maybe you succeed and great.

Like, but either way, it's a win.

But I don't think everybody has that innate drive to create something.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

That's the thing.

There's nothing wrong with that.

There's nothing wrong with that.

That's the point.

I think it's the same.

I would also argue that there's the same school of thought around or this idea that in the last 10, 15 years, like for women to become

the ultra woman boss.

to be

and not start a family too much to its detriment too exactly and not embracing their femininity and like and i think that that is also a destructive narrative because for a lot of women that is their purpose to do.

And I think that like we're also swinging back to that.

I think you're seeing it with a lot of the thought leadership coming back to what is success?

Is success building a business?

Is it making money?

Is it, or is right now, my definition of success, sleep through the night?

Because it means I'm not worried and anxious about anything.

I'm excited to get out of bed and I have fun during the day.

Like that, that, that, those are the three things that I am trying to move towards.

And so I think we get caught up in this, like, the grind and

the idea of what we think success is.

But is that really what success is for you?

And that's why you stop and you write your list because you need to decide what is your success.

Because I wasn't living my success and I got depressed.

And anytime I get depressed, and I've been through three or four pretty heavy depressions in the last 15 years, each time I go through depression, there's a big area of my life that is not in alignment.

I'm not being authentic in a big area of my life, whether it's a relationship, whether it's a job, like the production company.

I did not love it.

I started to get depressed.

Why didn't you like it?

Because 99% of the stuff that I created never got seen.

It was just like production is your pit, you're creating ideas that no one ever sees.

Yeah.

What kind of ideas were they?

They were all TV shows.

Yeah.

So like unscripted.

So we made like, you know, a couple MTV shows.

We did a show, you know, for freeform and a bunch of, like, we made like four or five shows, but we developed like 70 great ideas.

How many?

Probably 70, yeah.

And you, how many did you sell, though?

We sold

four shows.

Okay, that's still good.

And we sold maybe like 10, 15 pilots.

But again, like, you got to.

And none of them got made.

That's just the way it goes, especially if you're a young production company.

It's like.

Wow.

And I didn't love the work.

You ended up being a, you were like working at an ad agency.

You had clients that the net like the network paid the bills they told you what the show was going to be at the end of the day you could fight for it fight for it but this idea that you have ultimately would we be chiseled away to this thing that you didn't care about by the time it went on air because you're like i'm over it yeah totally true you know this podcast was sold to nbc as a tv show and then again same it went into like a black hole of nothingness for god knows how long and they couldn't even decide who the it wasn't called habits and custom was called game changers and it was back and forth forever about even who to do the pilot with, for God's sakes.

And I was like, oh my God, this is like mind-numbingly horrible.

That, like, I was like, there's no way I'm going to put the destiny, my destiny in some other person's hands.

I'll just like do this little podcast for a while and see what happens.

And it ended up being better, like, better for me because it was much more in alignment to what I wanted to do, which was talk to who I wanted to talk to on my schedule, on, you know, doing it in my house versus having to deal with all the nonsense.

And, you know, again, like by just taking action, opportunity just presents itself in ways that you never even knew existed by just going down that path.

So I think this is a really important point.

And you asked me, like, how have you been able to do this for so long?

Milking it is what I said.

Yeah, milking it.

I think that was actually what you said.

Yeah, a couple of times.

Four or five.

So what you did there was you

were

going down this path that most people go down, which is a television show.

And that is what success is.

And you realized that it was, some, for whatever reason, it wasn't,

it wasn't working for you.

Like you weren't being inspired by it anymore.

So you pivoted.

You followed your inspiration.

You followed energy.

So I think it's like you have to follow the energy.

So as you follow this, whatever it is, maybe it's the excitement, maybe it's this energy, you're like, okay, I'm going to do this podcast the way I want to do it, the way that excites me, the way that lights me up, which is on my own schedule in my house with the people I want.

And you did that.

And then you continued to see this momentum that was building.

You kept following it.

Yeah.

And you followed what you loved.

You followed this natural ease.

That means you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.

That means your life is in alignment and you're in flow.

In that area.

Exactly.

And so that's what I have done with this thing.

I know now that this is a core universal truth.

People are buried.

They're going to get more and more buried as the years go on because of technology, because of the pace of life, because of the internet, everything.

If Matthew Arnold felt like this 170 years ago, and I felt like this 17, 18 years ago, and people still feel like it now more than ever, like this is a core thing.

What you speak about, right?

These are a core truth, but you need to continue to move in the energy or in the direction of the energy that lights you up because

that means that you're going to be able to sort of act on it in the way that only you can so that's the idea is like figure out the thing that you want to do and then follow that energy and so it's a it's collecting data right that's why you write your list and you talk about it and you start to take small steps where's that bucket list i want to look at it again did you put it somewhere oh here it is yeah you take small standards because you take small steps and just look at it like an experiment It doesn't matter.

You're just collecting information.

So you start your podcast.

You're like, okay, if you could have gotten in your own way a hundred times, never started it, right?

But finally you're like, I'm just going to put the first one out.

You put the first one out.

You're like, okay, that was awful.

But actually, this part worked and looks like these people like this.

And so I'm going to do more of this.

You're collecting.

data and you're just seeing if you like to do it.

Well, also what stops a lot of people is the overthinking.

You can outthink yourself to doing anything and you don't have to have all the answers.

You can just basically just know that it's not going to be perfect and that's okay.

And a lot of times the best things happen from imperfection, right?

Like it doesn't have to be perfect.

And, you know, that's what I kind of, that's my message that, but it's better than perfect is actually having something.

That's actually much better, right?

Like, or you have to think to yourself, like, why not me?

If it can happen to this Shmendrick, it can happen to me.

Like, don't always put your, these people on a pedestal who've done it all and be like, wow, like, I wish I can never do that.

Yeah, you can.

The only difference between you and that person who succeeded is that they actually went through the process and did it.

They didn't take no for an answer and they persisted.

They were brave.

They were brave.

That's what it is.

They were bold.

I say bold, but you know.

I say brave.

I know.

I say, I guess it ain't not going to work.

I guess not.

I guess, you know.

No, it's, it's true.

Like, you typically will look at someone that you don't know that's succeeding and think.

They're better than me.

They're smarter than me.

That's why it's so important to surround yourself with people that inspire you.

Because when you see your friends do incredible things, you don't say, they're better than me.

You say, I know that person.

They're not better than me.

They're the same.

Exactly.

And if they did that, I wonder what I can do.

You get inspired by them.

And that's why that one decision that I made to surround myself with people that inspire me changed my life forever.

I still subscribe to that.

And I get lifted up by the people around me subconsciously.

100%.

Just by the fact that they're doing cool and interesting things.

I see them achieve something.

I'm like, man, that's incredible.

I wonder, like, I could probably do this other thing that I'm thinking of.

And the other crazy thing, and this is the big mind fuck is like, okay,

if I look back at what started this for me back in 2006, and this actually was the spark for all three of my friends and me was our friend from high school that started a clothing line out of nowhere.

And we were all like, oh my God, how did you do that?

And he's like, what do you mean?

I was like, how did you start this clothing line?

You don't have any experience in production and clothes and how did you took out a loan?

What?

And he's like, what do you mean?

I just did it.

And I was like, whoa.

What is it?

What was the clothing line called?

Is it around?

Well, this is the thing.

It's not around anymore.

It wasn't a success, but he inspired all of us to do Buried Life.

Buried Life inspired a whole bunch of other people to do their thing.

If he would not have started that clothing line, none of this would have happened.

And so you look at that, you're like, that

was not a success.

Dude, he changed the world.

You do what you love, you inspire other people to do what they love.

And that ripple effect goes far beyond what you'll ever know.

So that's the ripple effect that you talk about.

That's amazing.

So is that what you speak about on all these keynotes?

I do talk about the ripple effect of trying to give people permission to go after the things that they love by saying that by you doing that, you're going to give other people permission to do the thing that they love.

Just like you doing this thing that you love, how many people have been like, you inspired me to do this, you inspired me to do that?

Countless.

Yeah, I did a TED talk about being bold actually that went viral and how many people like I think about 50,000 people said that they because of that boldness they did something bold that then changed their life that changed someone else's life yeah which is a hundred percent true you so imagine if you could measure that that would be super cool yeah how do you if you can you figure that out is there an

I want to do in the documentary really yeah is I quantify the the ripple effect that's if you can figure that out would you use AI for that or how would you even do that how do you quantify I don't know it's it's it's something that is

I think so cool because it's proof it's proof that one person can change the world it's proof that one person can create an incredible impact and knowing that, then you stop thinking about what your definition of success is.

Totally true.

Because just by being yourself, you're inspiring other people to be themselves and that changes the world.

And so that's the big idea.

And there's a ripple effect when you do what you love, but there's also a ripple effect when you help someone.

Because when you help someone, like you said, you help this person through the TED Talk, but that actually helped their family.

That helped their friends.

So you help the people that are connected to them.

And so small acts of kindness can create these huge ripples.

You can save someone's life by giving them a compliment right like it's not an exaggeration someone could totally be walking towards the bridge to jump off and you could just be the one person in their life that just showed them any type of kindness and humanity and they just thought you know what like there's stories like that i know there's a lot of stories by the way like that i think that that is that's actually a super cool concept if you can actually quantify that that would be incredible i would imagine that that is that what you're really working on right now in the documentary yeah that's why we're talking with that group to...

Yeah, I won't say the name, but that's if you can do that, that, I mean, I think it would be amazing.

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You know, also, you said something.

I was listening to, I think, your TED, was it a TED Talk?

I don't know, but you said something, and I was like, wow, that was really profound, little Ben, because you know what you said?

You said that most people shoot for the middle, so it's actually the most competitive, is what you said.

Unrealistic gold are less competitive because nobody is going for them.

And that is 100% true.

And I was like, you know what?

That is so wise and true, right?

Because people think, oh, I can't get there.

So they don't even try.

So the competition is so much less.

Like the thing that you did, like when you, when you like, you guys played basketball with like Obama, right?

Like the president of the United States.

That is so crazy to me that you were able to do that.

You were able to do that, but you have not yet been on the cover of Rolling Stones, which is kind of funny.

But like, because he has so much security around him, he's got so much everything.

But I bet you, how many people actually, like, they may want to do that, but how many people actually truly attempted to play with him?

Probably not many.

Totally.

And that's the thing.

And you know why that's so wise, that thing that you said?

Is because I didn't say it in the beginning.

Oh, you didn't say it, but oh, damn it.

But you know who said that?

Okay, who?

Tim Ferriss.

Yeah.

But I did talk about it in my Time.

did did he say it or did he take it from someone else the ripple effect probably yeah i don't think he said it i i would argue that most things that people say are not original thoughts but you i agree but it's that's fine because you're saying them in a way that resonates now in a in a in a bit of a different way you say bold i say brave hey we're gonna break bread we're gonna get over this i know i hope so i really do i like you so much i mean i don't know if i can it's gonna take me a minute this is a big divide

also victoria toronto east coast west coast i mean it's a little different but the same you know you hippies in the suits yeah it's a hundred percent true but we'll get we could we can make it we can do it

let's do a therapy session we should we should we can call one of your therapists since you do you do you have one on speed as i said you have one on speed dial they're my favorites of course okay well because you said you also struggled for with depression many times yeah so once was the production company

once was the rugby and when you were younger what was the other time once was uh when I realized that a relationship wasn't right, long-term relationship.

Were you really depressed or were you just like in a male, in a, in a.

No, I was, you know, so

the good thing about going through your first sort of mental health crisis or struggle or whatever.

By the way, everyone goes through one.

Like this is just, if you look at the research, like we'll all go through some sort of mental health struggle, not necessarily from a mental health, a mental illness, but like bereavement from a loss or stress or a divorce or getting fired.

So like let's just go out and say, like, this happens to human beings.

If you are struggling right now, you're, there's more people struggling right now than ever.

Please talk about it.

Talk about it with someone that you love or a therapist.

And there's nothing wrong with you.

There's nothing broken.

You haven't lost anything.

You know, I've had conversation with friends lately that are going through a tough time and they think that they are not the person they used to be.

And it's, they are the same person.

They've just lost touch with those things

that they are, or those, those ways of being that they used to feel, that now they are not able to tap into, right?

So, but they don't go anywhere.

You never lost them.

Like, when I felt depressed, I was like, they're just buried.

They're buried.

I was like, I'll never be that guy again.

I can't even imagine going out and talking with somebody, let alone like being out in public and having fun at a party or being a type and being a happy-go-lucky guy.

Well, guess what?

I still am that guy.

That's part of who I am.

But you lose touch with those feelings, but they don't go anywhere.

So it's just about doing small little positive habits and you'll slowly start to feel like you're climbing yourself out of this thing.

But you have to commit to doing those things even when you don't feel like it.

Yeah, it's true.

It's hard to recognize that when you're in the moment, but I think that everyone feels that way.

And it's always the people though I find that you least expect.

If like someone looks perfect, usually underneath, they're like probably struggling with something.

Yeah.

Or if they're super talented, it's just a balance.

I totally, that's so true, too.

Like, I think people that are gifted also struggle the most because it's just, they're so gifted in this one area, but there's this other area of their life where they have blind spots.

So they're just not as evolved.

And so it's so true because everything they've dominated in one area so much that it's just, it's like, that's like kind of like how

life balance itself out, right?

Yeah, exactly.

I totally find.

But how do you tell people in the moment when they're in that moment that, oh, it's going to get better.

You just have to do these positive things.

like you were lucky when you were young that your friends actually got you to a place where you actually left to go to banff like most people would be like fuck off get out of my house and not do it you know what I mean like yep you have to show up you show up for your friends you have you got to show up again and again and call them and

show

make them feel that you are there for them and that you that you know that they're going to get through this and you have to push them to do do those things, right?

Like they have to also, you know, sometimes you can't help people if they don't ultimately want to help themselves.

But, you know, if this is someone that's like going through it for the first time, then for me, it's like, I know I've been there.

I know what that's like.

You haven't done this before.

It's like going through the creative process for the first time.

You go through it and it's like, there's always a moment where you're like, I can't do this.

Yeah.

Like,

I don't get it.

I don't know how I'm going to do this.

This is a total cluster fucked.

Overwhelmed.

You can't get over that hump and all of a sudden it comes together and you've created created something.

Yeah, it's the same, like this arc of going through this struggle.

You're like, you're through the mud, and then you start to see as you get through it.

You look back, you're like, oh, yeah, I know why this happened to me.

Right.

You don't know in the moment.

You connect the dots.

That's also with like

these people who people, by the way, I don't think that people are so much looking for advice.

They're looking for someone to believe in them more than advice.

Like you can chit-chat all you want, but if you have someone who believes in you, I think it gets you much further.

But I want to talk more about you have here five steps to make the impossible possible.

So you said the accountability piece of writing stuff down.

Yep.

What's the other stuff?

Write it down, share it.

Share it, yeah.

What was the other ones?

So it's, it's be unstoppable, which is really about like creating your own inspiration through action.

So taking small steps, even if you don't know how you're going to achieve it, you create your own momentum.

So mood follows action, as Rich Roll would say.

So it's like you're the architect of your own inspiration by taking action.

Right.

And I think, too, that it's sometimes we don't know what we're capable of or we don't know what's possible until we're there doing it.

So you can't even imagine yourself doing it until you've made it and you're like, oh my God, we're here.

Yeah.

And so that is all just reinforcement around this idea of like, okay, you just got to keep taking small steps and you'll start to.

to feel that inspiration.

So you don't wait for it.

You create it.

The other is be brave.

Be bold, I mean.

Yes, thank you.

I'm like, God, you keep on saying it.

It's like you're like torturing me here.

God.

Be bold.

Yeah.

Be bold.

And that is moving through fear.

So this is the big one.

This is the big barrier that everyone, most people, this is the big stopping point.

I'm afraid what other people will think or I'm afraid to fail.

And that's what Dr.

Gilovich found through his research.

This is the number one barrier.

So you look at, okay, let's look at the fear of what other people think.

Doesn't go away.

You get better at it.

Some people, very rare, they just give no fucks.

Most people don't.

Most people, by the way, don't even care what you're doing.

people think that people care you don't give a shit you're too busy thinking about yourself exactly people do not care and so you're worried about you're making up this whole thing and people aren't even thinking about you no so it's it's it's basically

what it is it's like it's like you're you're a mime comes over and a mime is like uh miming that you're in a box and you're like oh how am i gonna get out of this box i'm just i gotta wait until someone comes and opens it for me and there's no box there it's like that's the the fear.

It doesn't, it's a fear.

It's a mirage, basically.

And so, and then you're also afraid of failure because you're afraid of what other people think.

But the failure is great.

The failure means you're learning about yourself.

The failure is a pivot in the right direction.

That discomfort that you feel is growth.

So

it's a positive thing.

You just have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

And then you start to realize, oh, this doesn't go away, this feeling.

I'm never going to be ready enough so that i don't feel the fear of getting on stage for the first time you're just gonna feel it but you know that's part and parcel with doing something that means something to you so you actually should think well great this is like the difference between anxiety and excitement very delicate difference like it's a hate it's not a hate it's basically it's very so similar that when i used to feel yeah totally anxious about going on stage i would then think to myself oh perfect i'm excited and i could shift that anxiety into excitement because that meant that this was a meaningful talk.

So

do you ever get anxiety anymore?

Because you're so, you've done like, what you said, 200 last year or something crazy.

Yeah, I don't get anxiety often.

And I get excited, but I would get anxiety if I did a toast at my friend's wedding.

Right.

I would get anxiety if I did a TED Talk.

For sure.

Right.

But not, because do you do the same keynote all the time?

Or do you have a few that you've introduced?

Do you have a few different keynotes?

And then I change.

So my process is like, i i i spend a lot of time learning about the goals and the stresses and the impact that they're making so i when i articulate the ripple effect i need to know how they actually impact people and the work they do when i talk about the how leadership cares about them i need to understand do they actually care and how do they care so i reinforce all these things that the company does through my message so it's it's oh so you interweave them into the yeah yeah yeah so i send along a questionnaire then i get on a call with them i figure out how they give back and I figure out what they're what they're struggling with and then I relate that to my story so you know there's there's there's a lot of the similar arcs but it's like the these pieces I put in and I think that's really important as a speaker so that you're not just doing the canned speech again right so what are your topics really I'm and now I'm just curious that it's basically impossible to possible is like sort of one big idea of achieving the impossible.

Then there's rethinking mental health.

and that has like this.

I talk about my mental health toolkit, which are habits that I have learned.

Like, you know, when I said, I think that there's your struggles can be your strengths when you really embrace them.

Because through these areas in my life where I've hit lows, I've really been forced to learn stuff about myself.

Just like you're forced to learn stuff about yourself when you go through a breakup.

That's why it's really hard.

You can't, you got to look in the mirror.

So it's a

opportunity for you to really figure out who you are and learn things about yourself.

So I learned these habits.

What were the habits for mental health?

So they are, these are also, I put my mental health toolkit as on my Instagram bio.

So you can download the toolkit if you click on it.

Okay, so then they don't have to listen to the podcast.

They can just go on your Instagram.

I thought we were just done.

Oh, yeah, I noticed.

No, no, no.

There's a lot.

There's a lot.

There's okay.

What do you mean?

How many are in the toolkit?

There's like, you know, 10 or 12.

Yeah.

Can you give me five?

I can give you them all if I can remember them.

Okay.

So let's start with the easy ones.

Purpose, right?

That's why you have a buggy list.

Nature.

Okay.

Just being out in nature for 20 minutes makes you feel happier.

That's why in Japan, doctors will

prescribe forest bathing to patients that are feeling anxious and depressed.

Just go out in nature.

Don't have to exercise.

You're going to feel a sense of well-being.

I don't know if you've heard of this thing called exercise.

Never heard of it.

Is it good?

You should do it.

Really?

You should try it.

I want to try it.

What's it about?

What do you do?

I have no idea.

Is it like you basically just move around?

It's like Zumba.

Like Zumba, but a little different.

Exercise,

you should definitely try it.

I'm going to try it.

Release the serotonin dopamine.

Makes you feel happier.

But I think actually what's interesting about exercise, that I felt like I needed to go to the gym or do like a proper workout and I never had time.

And then I was just like, I'm just going to do like every time I get up in the morning.

I'm going to do like push-ups.

I can't do anymore.

I'm going to do sit-ups still I can't do anymore.

And that's it.

Or I'm going to do pull-ups and I'm going to do do like squat jumps.

Like seven minutes, five minutes, three.

And that was like really kicked off my well-being physically.

Is that what you still do?

I try and do that, but now I have like, I have more of a routine in the gym.

Do you go to the gym then?

Do you like lift weights now?

Now, right, as of now, I've been doing strength training.

You weren't doing

anything.

You play tennis.

Not pickleball ball.

No, I was just only, I was only doing...

Pickleball was my gateway drug to tennis, which is a real sport.

It's a real sport.

But pickleball is so freaking popular.

It's unbelievable.

They'll get to tennis.

Yeah, well.

They will get.

Tennis is very popular, but I think pickleball is like the entry, like the gateway.

It's like

I'm just doing heroin now.

Yeah, I know.

You really are.

Exactly.

Are you doing it with like the IV?

Okay.

Okay, okay.

Let me go see.

This is why I said you got to go to Instagram because I knew we were going to get to.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Here's, I'm going to go through nature, exercise, purpose, connection.

Talk about it.

Talk about with the therapist.

These things in your head, they're scarier in your head.

When you talk about them,

that's a way that you process and break them down.

They're just scary in your head until you start to voice them.

You give someone else the opportunity to help you too.

Then when they go through their time of need, they come back to you.

So you're opening the door for them to come back to you, which is really important and powerful.

Mindfulness.

I like TM, transcendental meditation.

But mindfulness doesn't need to be meditation.

I think people get caught up and be like, I can't meditate.

Great, fine.

Mindful walk.

Put down your phone, go for a walk, listen to the breeze, the birds, listen to your breath.

Take a mindful, three mindful breaths through your lower abdomen or do a box breath which is like four in hold four back out you know i think that mindfulness is just being mindful of of where you are okay so is that is that all for your toolbox can we move on now or now you're trying to get me to move on well no if it sounds great i love it people can check his instagram go down to scrolling it but i think those are good examples i don't even know how long this podcast's been and i wanted to have all these questions about your actual bucket list like what was the hardest thing for you to pull off what like we do rapid fire You want to do like, okay, because the list is a good one and it's long, but I'll, because I can get into stories that will like, will be here for days, but I'll do like quick.

Yeah.

What was the hardest one to pull off?

So

probably

make a TV show.

Took about, you know, we wanted to make the show as executive producers and as people that never produced anything, any minute of television.

and lived on an island in Canada to come down from

to sell a show to MTV Canada.

No, so to sell a show to MTV, we turned down a show from MTV Canada because they wouldn't let us be executive producers.

Oh.

So we just ended up taking the footage.

We cut a pilot.

We had crashed the MTV video awards in Vegas in 2007, gotten the awards, pretended we were filming a secret pilot for MTV.

Fortune email from the CEO of MTV, Judy McGrath, showed it to security, had a big purple bus and a crew, faked our way in, got out, no one knew.

We took that footage.

cut a pilot.

MTV watched it and they're like, what?

Like, you guys did this?

We had no idea.

They didn't know?

Nope, sold it to them.

It's so meta.

Like, made a pilot about making a fake pilot.

That got us the show.

And it just, like, for us coming from Victoria, MTV, still, like, this was like the Jersey Shore era.

Our first season was the same first season as Jersey Shore.

So it's like MTV was huge.

And we got to make the show we wanted to make.

We were, we lost two years of our lives, but we were so just bullheaded on making this real.

So when we like streaked a field, we were like really doing it and we didn't clear the venue and like nothing, it was all docus style.

But like reality television is not real.

Our show was fucking real.

That's what's amazing.

It was real, right?

Like how did you guys actually get to do those things?

We would, we would ask for forgiveness later.

We would figure out a way after.

Yeah, don't ask for permission.

That's for sure.

Yeah.

Make a toast of Stranger's Wedding.

We, you know, embarrassingly crashed the Playboy Mansion, got in, got permission after from Hugh Hefner.

Everyone said no.

We finally got his personal

assistant.

We sent him the DVD of the episode.

He showed it to him.

He watched it.

He gave us permission.

Like, it was a whole thing.

We survived on a desert island, like, legitimately.

How long were you on a desert island?

We were three nights, four days.

The crew would come during the day.

They'd film us.

They'd leave.

We only could bring one thing with us each that couldn't be fire or food.

And we lived off coconuts and crabs.

Are you serious?

How much of your 100-thing list was done on the TV show versus before you got the TV show?

We had done

at least 50 before, and we did, what, two seasons, 18 episodes.

So we did 18 list items.

So what did you do prior to getting the show that made them even, besides doing that amazing stunt at the Las Vegas thing where you guys...

Yeah, we had, I mean, we had filmed for, we'd been doing it for three years.

So it was already a three-year period.

That was what I wanted to know.

okay and so what of the in the in that three-year period before mtv came on what were some of the biggest ones that you guys were able to

we uh we did rideable we sung the national anthem to the canadian anthem which was an nba game and it was just because steve nash was playing was canadian sons and he was canadian how did you get that we convinced them that we could sing.

I don't know.

Who was the main guy?

Like, where are these guys now?

Where are your friends?

One of them is a professor at Cambridge in the UK.

Yeah.

One of them does a ton of writing.

And one of them is running our production company and also doing like this incredible job of buying houses and turning them into Airbnbs and rentals and stuff like that.

Oh, and you guys are all friends still.

Yeah.

And we're all sort of like,

we're...

focusing on some of us more than others on the documentary.

But we've done a good job of allowing each person to follow their own path, you know,

follow that.

So, and we all left Buried Life for five, six years.

And then I kind of got reignited.

And the book, the number one New York Times bestseller, was that your book with those guys or was it just your book?

With those guys.

So

it was all four of you guys.

Four of us, yep.

And then the Bucket List Journal is the one that I just did.

Is yours.

Yep.

Okay.

So of the group, who was the most like just tenacious and persistent and just, you know, balls to the wall to get this stuff done.

I was like the producer of the group, I was always wrangling, making it happen.

And so, that was my that was my job.

And so, like, so the thing in Vegas when you guys crashed the awards, did we like, how did that even like who was able to, like, how did you even get that?

Or the president, like, playing basketball, the president, like to me, I'm still on that one because there's so much red tape on that.

You know what I mean?

Other things that you can finagle around, but that's legit, you know?

Yeah, that was about a hundred no's that we got.

I mean, we, this is basically the timeline very quickly.

Send dozens of emails to any politician that has a publicly listed email on their website that is in DC saying we're trying to play basketball with the president to prove that anyone can do anything.

Just take a meeting with us.

Drive to DC.

Have as many meetings as we can with lower level officials.

In those meetings, we can oftentimes convince them to convince their boss to meet with us.

So we start lobbying DC to try and figure out how do we do this.

We learn that that there's this secret basketball game that happens and the man that sets it up is the personal aid of the president, Reggie Love.

So everyone's like, you got to, Reggie Love's your guy.

Like he's your keys to the game because he sets them up.

If Obama's playing, Reggie Love is playing.

So we're trying to get a hold of Reggie Love.

We're moving up the ladder.

We get a meeting with the Secretary of Transportation.

He puts in a call to the White House while we're in the room, get an email.

shortly after and White House is like, thank you for your inquiry about playing basketball with the president.

Unfortunately, we cannot arrange a game with the president.

And we're just like, all right, one note.

Like we just, we leave voice, you can leave a voicemail at the White House.

Like you can call, anyone can call and leave a message.

So we're leaving messages.

We're sending letters.

We're

picketing outside the White House with signs, wearing basketball uniforms from the 1970s.

We are trying to figure out how to get a hold of Reggie Love to get this game going.

Any high-level official we're trying to meet with, Tim Geithner, was the Secretary of Treasury.

We heard that Reggie Love works out at the YMCA every morning at six.

I just go to the Y.

I'm waiting for Reggie and I'm like, ask the guy at the front desk.

I'm like, is Reggie Love come in?

And he's like, no.

He's like, but you know who that is?

I was like, who is that?

That's Secretary of Treasury.

I go, I follow him into the Ben's bathroom.

I'm like, okay, pumping myself up to talk with him.

He's so quick and getting changed.

He's already in his bathing suit in the pool.

I'm like, fuck.

I just get a towel, get...

undressed.

I don't have a bathing suit on.

I just put a towel over my boxers and I go out to the lap, like where they're doing laps.

And I'm just kind of loitering, trying to pretend to stretch by where he's loitering.

And he's like doing laps.

Finally, he comes up to a lap.

I just, his head comes up at the edge of the pool.

I kneel down.

I'm like, hey, Tim, hey, listen.

And I just give him the pitch.

And he's like, like, you can email my assistant.

I can tell he's not enthusiastic.

Yeah.

I look up.

I see Secret Service in the window, just.

standing against the window looking at me.

I'm like, oh God, I got to get out of here.

So like, we do all these things.

Finally, we find find the email for we do an interview with a sports writer that used to reggie love played basketball at duke he had interviewed reggie because he had played ball at duke and he was an espn writer so we convinced him to give us his email he's like i don't know if it's still good here you go so we start sending him emails we're like reggie you and the president that's the subject you and the president versus us ymca tonight be there so we're challenging him and the president to a basketball game we just keep sending these deals we go to the why we wait he's not there.

Go to the why, we wait.

Literally, we got a phone call on a block number, and it's Reggie Love.

He's like, what's this I hear about you wanting to play basketball against the president and I?

And I'm like, fuck.

I explained to him why.

He's like, you know what?

I like this.

I really like this.

I think I can make this happen.

Give me two weeks.

I've got to run it by the press team.

They got to sign off on everything.

They sign off on this.

We can do this.

I feel good about it.

Calls me back.

He's like, I talk with the press team.

It's not going to happen.

Oh, my God.

And he's literally like, as a consolation prize, he's like, listen, I'm sorry, guys.

Nothing I can do.

If you're ever back in in DC, let me know.

I'll give you a tour of the White House.

So three months later, we were back there for a talk.

We call him up.

I sent him an email.

He gets back to us.

He's like, swing by the White House tomorrow.

And so we go by the White House.

We rented suits from a freaking prom rental store.

We're like, we're like dressed dragged.

What do you wear to the White House?

We're living on a bus.

And so we go, he meets us, he shows us around.

And

we're like,

can we film this?

And he's like yeah the president's not in town go for it we film and as we're filming we hear these steps and this voice be like it's president Obama be like hey guys heard you're in town thought the least I could do is shoot a basket with you and he literally surprised us on the courts and we're like what

and so then we were kicked it with the president shooting around for like 15 minutes this like

white house photographer and we were like trash talking him shooting shots.

We were talking about having free health care in Canada.

or really yeah that's so cool passing the health care bill yeah obamacare at the time and we're like dude this we support this we've had this forever it's the best that is so was that the coolest one of all definitely it was probably the top yeah because it was also something that i thought was totally impossible totally we wrote that down when obama got elected in 2008 johnny called me up he was like I know what we should put on the list.

I'm like, what?

He's like, play basketball with Obama.

And I laughed out loud.

I was like, that is the most impossible thing we could think of doing.

And his response was, yeah, but how amazing would it be?

And I was like, can't argue with that.

Wrote it on the list.

Three years later at the White House.

Three years it took to get that done.

Yep.

And so it was proof then that this thing that I thought was impossible was possible.

So now my whole, after you do that, and I think everyone has the ability to prove to themselves that they are capable of achieving things that are impossible.

And once you do that a couple of times, your belief system changes.

And moving forward, when you face a challenge, you don't think, can I do this?

You think, do I want to do this?

Does this align with my values?

Is it something I know it's going to be a lot of work, but do I want to do it?

And that was the shift for me where I was like, I have no choice but to believe that anything's possible because I just see it right happening now with my own eyes.

And I knew that this was impossible.

And here it is happening.

And the other crazy part, after that day, we had our first call with the Oprah producers.

And we were late for the call.

And we were like, guys, sorry, we were late.

We were shooting hoops at the White House with Obama.

It was like the most surreal day

of all time.

And then we announced that we did it on Oprah.

It was like, we were like, what is going on?

Crazy.

That is an amazing story.

The fact that you were even on Oprah was a great, I mean, that's what I'm saying.

Like, I'm surprised that the Rolling Stone, like, they didn't put you on the cover while you had the show.

Right?

Because it would make perfect sense.

Yeah, it's hard to get on Rolling Stone.

Trust me, I know.

It's super hard.

Like, yeah, as someone that's not a musician, it's funny this is because this just happened 2000 the precursor to this 2007 this is pre-mtv show someone works for men's health men's health is owned by yon wenner which owns rolling stone she is able to get us a 15 minute meeting with yon wenner we go into his office corner office if you could imagine like matt you're just beautiful huge iconic and we have 15 minutes with him And we start talking and we just, we have this really funny back and forth where we end up staying there for an hour.

He ends up yelling, asking his assistant to get a knife so he can get us out of here.

Like, we're shooting the shit at the end of the meeting.

We talk about skiing because he loves skiing, and we're trash talking about we can ski faster than you.

He's like, no way.

Anyways, we end up skiing with him for the next like five Christmas, like winter breaks in Sun Valley, Sun Valley, yeah, yeah, Sun Valley, Idaho.

And we, he's a the one of the most fascinating human beings because he's met every single notable, iconic, famous person.

Yeah, and so I was in New York two days ago, I haven't seen Jan in 10 years.

And

I went by his house for lunch and I talked with him.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, I had to lunch with him, caught up.

And it was really fun.

I said, Jan,

you ever do a cover that's a mosaic, right?

A hundred little photos making up one photo picture.

You know who to call.

That's our technicality, how we can cross this off.

Why will he not put you?

Is it his son, Gus, no, runs?

Gus runs runs it.

Yeah.

He's like, got to talk to Gus.

I know.

Gus is actually on this podcast.

I know, Gus.

I mean, you never know.

Have you asked Gus?

I haven't asked Gus.

Have not asked Gus.

Look, I think when the dock comes out, you know, maybe there's a chance.

Maybe when we do go to space, you know, that's the number 100.

But I think that there's a way with the big ones,

there's a way to do it in a cheeky way.

In a cheeky way, for sure.

Maybe it's like, yeah, like there's a cover and maybe they need background in the cover shoot.

So maybe there's

exactly.

You don't have to be the star of the cover.

I will definitely not be the star.

The mosaic is a great idea, though.

I think, unless you end up being like a great guitarist and become like the next Lenny Kravitz, you never know.

Yeah.

Although you don't like to play guitar, even though you have it in your house or something.

I remember hearing that in an interview.

Yeah, yeah, I do.

Yeah, I have one.

I haven't started.

So I better get on that.

Yeah, I mean, that's your way in.

I don't know why you haven't practiced from since 2006.

You've had this dream.

You could have become like, you know, Led Zeppelin for all I know.

Yeah.

Okay, so I I guess, I mean, it's been forever.

I don't know how long you've been doing this.

I love how I said, let's do rapid fire, and I just told the longest story.

Oh, 100%.

I noticed that, but I didn't want to be rude.

You know what I mean?

You were so, you were so happy.

You were super excited.

Okay, one other question, and we're going to wrap.

Out of all, you know, you've met now, you've met a million people.

You've helped a lot of people help get to their, you know, get getting their bucket list things ticked off.

What was the most con what is the most common one thing that you've heard most people say that they want to?

I think it is travel-related travel.

It's going to be somewhere.

Really?

Yeah, go somewhere.

Yep.

Because I think that's also

the easiest thing to think of.

That's why in the journal, travel and adventure is the first category, because I want it to be easy for people.

And I think that there's also...

A common one is around relationships,

reconnecting with someone you've lost touch with, maybe doing something with your parent, taking your mom, your dad to do something that they want to do.

That's actually, yeah.

You know, that type of thing, telling someone how you feel.

I think that's the next layer.

Because those are two of the top five regrets.

Well, and also, yeah, I mean, I think when you ask people like that, or when, but how about when you, when you just like do your talks and like, you're obviously like up there for a while, like people start to think about all the things that they haven't done and what they want to do.

Yeah, you get deeper.

You get deeper, right?

So at the street, it's like, yeah.

And we would always have people,

when we asked them on the street sometimes they would run after us and be like, No, no, no, no, this is it, or they'd think they'd say, I don't know, and then they'd find us later because it's like you're planting a seed, absolutely.

I just love it.

I think it's such a

great exercise in general, like it makes you think, yeah, you know, of what you're not accomplishing.

And also, what you were saying earlier about the fact that, like, people who get depressed because they don't feel like they're how they used to be or they're never going to get back to it, you know, it's because they're not, they feel like they've been buried with like not living authentically.

And so, people end up living lives for other people their whole life, which is so sad.

It's the saddest.

Yeah.

And the thing that's really sad is that you don't know it until it's too late.

Too late.

That's the problem.

That's what's so sad.

Like you don't know it until you're on your deathbed and you have that moment of like honesty with yourself.

And that's why people's lives change when they have near-death experiences or someone close to them dies because they're forced to wake up.

Absolutely.

It rattles them.

So how can you give someone that shock without giving them that traumatic experience?

And that's what I'm trying to do.

Well, you're doing it and milking it for 20 years.

I mean, who I mean, you're doing it better than anybody I know.

I mean, okay, so Ben, how do people find you besides, of course, on stage at one of these, you know, 500 events that you do a year?

www.milkingit.com.

That's, yeah, I was going to add that in the notes, in the show notes.

In the show notes.

Yeah.

Instagram is probably my most active, which is just my name at Ben Nempton.

And then the bucket list journal is on Amazon or writeyourlist.com.

Right.

And if you're a company who wants a great, by the way, you really, the reason why I even, I should say, is because my husband's friend saw you at the GNC, not GNC, the YPO

GLC thing.

Cool.

And they said you were a great speaker.

They really thought you were great.

I don't know what your topic was there.

Was it impossible, possible?

Yeah, I did something like that with, and then I wove in leadership stuff because they're all presidents of big companies.

Right, or they own their own companies.

And now you're doing an event for that chapter, I think, too.

I'm doing, yeah, I'm now doing like YPO, Beverly Hills, LA, New York, Boston, Chicago.

I'm going down for Costa Rica, Nicaragua.

I'm talking with

all of those chapters?

Dominican Republic, yeah.

Like from the YPO, because that's

the main of the, I probably got got 25 chapters.

I just, today I got two more from

New York and

like Tulsa.

Oh my God, you're like rake.

Can I get a loan?

Maybe that could be your other job.

Like, holy shit, you're just raking it in.

It's speaking is amazing.

Oh, my gosh.

Amazing.

Okay, well, thank you for coming on this podcast.

You were such a delight, even though you say the word brave, but you know, we'll get past it.

Hey, it was bold of me to come, and I'm glad I came.

Yeah,

there you go.

No, it was a treat.

It's, I had no idea that you're Canadian, and obviously, that's why we have so much fun.

That's absolutely the Canadian thing just put it out.

That was the cherry on top, actually.

So, yeah, thank you.

Thank you for having me.

It's been awesome.

Thank you.

Bye.

Bye.