Episode 229: David Nurse: How to Identify Your Action Archetypes

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

Okay, so today's a fun podcast because I have my friend on today, someone who I've been friends with for actually many years, but never met in person.

His name is David Nurse, and David is quite a guy.

He used to be an MBA coach, right?

Yes.

Okay.

Turned author of multiple books.

Yes.

And he's basically a performance coach, a mindset expert.

And his newest book is called Do It.

I love the name.

The life-changing power of taking action.

And you know why I love having, I love the title is because all I ever yammer on about is like action, action, taking action.

And then you wrote an entire book about taking action.

Just for you.

You gave me that idea.

You were talking about taking action in our last podcast.

I was like, you know what?

I want to write this book so I can come on Jen's podcast.

Specifically for you.

And here we are.

Exactly.

Well, it worked because here you are, right?

Yep.

I'm so happy to have you here.

So, like, legit, because

this made us get actually introduced in person for the first time in God knows in all the years I've known you.

So let's start from the beginning.

Now, you have, this is now, what, your second, third book?

Third book.

Third book.

Your first book was called Pivot and Go.

Second book?

Breakthrough.

And this one now is now Do It.

How, okay, how do you have all these ideas?

They're all very much about mindset and motivation and personal development.

But I feel like you just spit out one nice book after another.

I think, you know what?

Like they're different concepts that I have and written for different people.

So Pivot and Go was written for somebody who is stuck.

And I feel like everybody at some point gets stuck in their lives.

Just so happened that became the hot term during COVID, wrote it before COVID.

But anybody who's feeling stuck could read these little small pivots in perspective and see things from a different perspective.

Breakthrough is more of a formula that I've used with NBA players and coaches and CEOs that I've seen them perform at a high level.

So it's like, okay, what can, because we all see this with high performers, like, why are they at that high level?

But yet there's really no formulaic expression for it.

So I just did research on what was working and I put it into a four-quarter

breakthrough quadrant.

So that was more towards the high performer who wants to take it to the next level.

Now, do it It is an interesting one.

And this one I'm really excited about.

I think probably like it's the cheesiest thing for an author to say, hey, my new book's the best one.

Go get it.

But it's

a different concept here, and it's a different type of writing that I've done.

And I give the 40,000-foot view as Atomic Habits meets the Enneagram with crazy, cool Malcolm Gladwell type stories of historical figures from the past.

who changed the world.

So what I mean by that is you're going to get the tools to be able to figure out what your action archetype is now action archetype is the reason you are holding yourself back from where you are currently today to where you want to go in the future everybody has something holding them back and maybe it's something bigger than others maybe it's multiple things but at different times in our lives we are different action archetypes and we can go through those and i'll give you a few examples like fear of other people's opinion what's i call the allidaxophobic That means

fear of other people's opinions.

There's other ones like the blamer, where somebody's always blaming other people.

We know these types of people.

Maybe it's you listening to their right now.

The scarciest.

So you're living in a scarcity mindset.

You're just trying to hold on to things.

You're trying to hoard them.

You're trying to not be able to go out and serve and share with others because you think you only get one slice of the pie.

There's six others, nine total, through doing three years of studies, surveys, crazy research, more than I've ever done.

And then I go into why it's actually happening neurologically in the brain.

Like, why are people really fearing other people's opinions?

There's different things happening in the brain and then also in the heart, the feelings that hold us back.

So each section has heart science, brain science, and then the coolest thing, these Malcolm Gladwell type stories, these historical figures who you probably like a lot of people haven't heard of these type, these people.

Like one guy is Lewis Latimir for example incredible guy I'd never heard of him before but he literally is the person behind Thomas Edison and Alexander Graham Bell why they did what they did without him they're not those people it's it's mind-blowing but each one of these people had the same struggle like of these nine different types they came to a moment when they could have just taken the easy route and just you know kind of just went through the motions like a lot of people will or take action, take a risk, take action.

And they all obviously took action and they changed the world through it.

I love that.

That's a great, just that diatribe that you were just on was perfect because it really did kind of give you everything that you needed right there.

And so, are you saying that we all fall into one of these archetypes, action archetypes?

Could we be a mix?

Could we blend two?

Okay.

That's what's really cool about it.

So the Enneagram, you are one type, and that's kind of a personality self-awareness.

This is something where you might change.

Like I know for myself, for example, at one point I feared other people's opinions.

I had this opportunity when I was doing basketball camps and before I coached or worked with any NBA players.

I got this opportunity from a friend of mine who was a high school coach.

He had the number one player in the country.

And he told me, David, come up and work him out.

And this is like what everybody dreams of if you're an NBA trainer.

Like you get to work with this guy who's going to be an NBA superstar.

Who was it, by the way?

Aaron Gordon.

He's still in the NBA.

NBA.

He's the dunk champion.

People will know about him if you know the NBA.

He was a stud up at Archbishop MIDI in San Jose.

So I go up there.

I'm going to work him out.

Work him out how?

Training?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Training, like basketball skills, like skill development type stuff.

Skill development stuff.

Okay.

And when you do this, then you're like, okay, I worked with this player.

It really helps on your resume.

NBA trainers do this all the time.

But I was going to go in.

I was literally about to go in the gym to work him out and I got scared.

Like I was afraid of what this 16-year-old kid was going to think of me and think like, I'm an imposter here going into this.

Yeah.

So I go home, I make some excuse that I was feeling sick.

By God's grace, two weeks later, the coach, Tim Kennedy.

So you never went in?

I didn't go in.

No, because I was living in.

I was scared.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow.

I'd never done it before, so I was scared.

So that was fear of other people's opinions.

So, and it's also another, there's another one called the underestimator.

I also thought, like, who am I to work this guy out?

I'm just this small small-town kid from Iowa.

Like, what, like, who am I to go be this potential NBA trainer or coach?

And a lot of us will struggle with that.

Like, oh, I was born in this town.

This person has more advantages than me, or their parent is this.

Like, no, no, no, no, no.

That's just lies and excuses you're telling yourself.

So, two weeks later, he asked me again, Hey, do you want it?

Are you feeling better?

And I did it.

One of my friends kind of pushed me towards it.

My friend comes and films it.

We send this film to some NBA agents.

They like it.

They pick it up.

I start training their players.

And before I know it, I'm training over 150 NBA players over the next 10 years because of that,

because I took action.

But as you saw, I was struggling with fear of other people's opinions to begin.

So how did you overcome that fear?

You know what?

Like literally, it was because my friend pushed me towards it.

Now, there's tools in the book that I tell you, like, you can actually use.

That was just by sheer like

force, basically.

He's like, dude, you're stupid.

Do it.

Who cares what a 16-year-old thinks?

And when I think about it, like, who cares what?

but who cares what anybody thinks honestly right because we all get so caught up in the like other people's opinions what do they think oh what you know how long somebody actually thinks about you probably about 10 seconds i think that's too long i think people actually maybe think about you for like two seconds two seconds yeah and like that's why we a lot of times we're so fearful of even like doing something how we're gonna look stupid or this and nobody even cares they're too busy paying attention to themselves and thinking about themselves bingo or thinking about what they're going to eat for dinner that night.

100%.

Yeah, exactly.

I tell it in talks.

Like, and I'm on stage, I'm saying, you know what?

You know what?

I don't care what any of you think.

Sure, I want you to like me.

It'd be awesome.

I want everybody listening to this podcast to be like, man, David,

super cool dude.

Like, let's, I want to kick it with him.

But ultimately, I could care less because when I go home, I know I have God and my smoking hot wife, and that's all I need.

That's all you need.

Literally.

That's amazing.

So then, wait, so give us a couple of the tools that you talked about

to overcome fear if we don't have a friend that you had that literally pushes us, pushes and nudges us out to train the 16-year-old.

Give us a couple of those

tools.

Yeah, yeah.

So here's my favorite one.

It's called Be the Comedian.

So think about your favorite comedy show.

Mine was The Office with a guy named Michael Scott.

I loved it.

One of the best all time.

If you don't watch it, there's something wrong with you.

Anyways, he's always getting himself in trouble.

He's a regional manager for Dunder Mifflin, a paper company.

He's always saying something to put his foot in his mouth and just getting in these situations and it's hilarious.

But for him, it's incredible stress and anxiety.

So think about that.

When you're going through some time where other people are judging you or it's a stressful, anxious time, you're fearing some other

person's opinion, take a step back.

So you go from Michael to being the viewer.

And then when you can look at yourself as a comedy show, you start to laugh.

You're like, oh, that's kind of funny, actually, that you're going through it because you're going to get through it.

I mean, either that or you'll die, and then it won't matter.

Right.

Or it's also like such a blip in your life, right?

Like, who cares?

After like a minute or two, you're kind of or like at the moment, like, it just lasts, it's a finite period of time, and then it's over.

Yeah, but you can actually laugh at yourself.

And there's some really tons of studies on how healthy that is and how much overall happiness and contentment you have if you are able to just not take yourself so damn serious.

Yes, that's the problem.

We take ourselves too damn serious.

Yeah, exactly.

So then, okay, of this list, let's go through them.

So the first one I can barely pronounce.

Aleidaxophobic.

That's the fear of other people's opinions.

That's the fear of other people's opinions.

Okay, what's the burned?

The burned action archaepe.

Yes, so the burned.

Archetype, I should say.

So think about it.

Like somebody burnt you.

Let's take it for dating, for example.

A lot of people will say, oh, well, I got burnt.

You know, they did me wrong.

They dumped me.

I'm not going to put my heart out there.

Because of somebody from the past did something to you.

You're going to take that past and you're going to put it on somebody from the future, either on yourself to hold yourself back.

Like, hey, I'm not going to take a chance.

Why would I put my heart out there?

I got burnt.

No, that's just an excuse.

The past is literally what happens in the past is going to lead you.

to what you are going to be in the future.

But people in the burn situation will hold them back

from taking action because they feel like they were done wrong.

So it's ultimately the past, somebody in the past,

you're allowing them to hold back.

And there's a thing called traumatic age regression.

So this is, this is, this concept was incredible when I was doing the research on it.

And it's when something happens in your past, you freeze in that moment.

Like you literally, until you address that situation, that traumatic situation in the past, you can't mentally get over it.

It's like if you, If you had a bad childhood and you go back to your childhood home, you ultimately go back into that person you were as a kid.

Until you are able to be aware of it, accept it, address it, you will not be able to move on.

You stay frozen in that moment.

Really?

Yep.

So what happens if you can't go back to that moment for lots of reasons, right?

Like, what do you do?

Are you just stagnant and then for your whole life?

Well, most people won't become aware of it, so it'll always be something that holds them back.

Like go back to the relationship thing.

If somebody dumped them.

Right.

So

how do you kind of like cleanse yourself of something something sometimes when you don't have that opportunity is my point yeah yeah yeah totally i mean

you won't ever be able to if you can't become aware that it actually happens what if you are aware if it happens that's when you have to be able to forgive it like if somebody if somebody burned you and i've i've literally gone through this on a massive stage in my own life and i was so bitter and i just wanted to get revenge on this person what happened well i mean but we might have to just keep i can't tell you the whole story here because it might not work out very well but let's just say it was uh it was uh i want

I want to know the tea, spill the tea or whatever that name is.

I want to know that stuff.

I want to know the nitty-gritty.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I will tell you off camera and you'll see why.

But anyways, I forgave this person.

I forgave this person and it released me from that feeling.

Okay.

So if you don't, you don't have to forget.

I'm not saying forget, but if you don't forgive, they win on you doublefold, meaning you're constantly thinking about them and they've already burnt you anyway, so they're twice winning on you.

But if you forgive them, then you've released it.

You're able to move on past that traumatic experience.

So, the way to get overcome, if you are the burned

archetype, is you have to forgive, you got to get over it, you got to release it.

And is that the, you said there's three different kinds, though, the brain, the heart.

Yeah.

What was the other thing?

You said there's three.

Yeah, so no, the brain and the heart science.

So, what's going on neurologically in our brain?

And there's a lot of science and studies that are in there, but there's also something called an AMS, like pressure points.

And I didn't know about this.

I always thought it was like, what does that?

I don't know if that really makes sense.

And you'll like read the book, you'll get more of like where everything is held in the body, but happiness is held in the chest and anger is held.

I think it's in the shoulder.

So when you're feeling angry, that's why when you go get a massage, you're like, oh, your shoulders are really tense.

You're stressed.

You have anger.

Like, there's something really to that.

This is maybe a side note, but

I just developed a frozen shoulder recently.

Have you heard of this?

Yeah, totally.

Have you ever had it?

You don't have it?

No, I haven't had it.

My wife has had it.

She hurts, she has shoulder problems.

Yeah.

Really?

Does that, so I've had it for like a few weeks.

It's because I'm holding anger in my shoulder that I have that?

It could.

I know you're not a doctor.

Yeah, yeah.

So I didn't know this.

Like, I don't, like, I do not prescribe to hit the pressure points, but we're friends, so I can, I, we're going to have a conversation in the midst of this pro yes, in the midst of this podcast.

Totally could be.

I mean, it really could.

Like, there could be a lot of stress that you're holding on to, or something happened in your life that's really like building up there there for sure.

Or you're just doing a ton of shoulder press exercises.

Is it like over training?

It could be, or is it, you know, maybe something else?

So, basically, I can't give you any good answers.

I'm not diagnosing my shoulder, basically.

The funny thing is with this, and I always thought this was a weird thing, too, when people were like, Oh, you gotta, you gotta do grounding and get your feet on the grass and the beach.

And I was like, whatever, I don't really feel anything from that.

But each one of these points, there's also entry in the bottom of the feet for like happiness, for anger, for content.

Yeah, well, feet for sure has all those pressure points.

So it's in there.

So I was actually like blown away.

I was like, whoa, this grounding thing might actually be real.

It's not this woo-woo thing that I thought it was.

Yeah, I did too.

I thought it was kind of woo-woo, but there's different, like, that's, we're talking, grounding is different.

I think, isn't grounding more when you're like getting yourself, you're becoming one with the environment or the nature.

Reflex, I think it's called reflexology when it's all those different pressure points in your foot yeah there's something with like the grounding and the electrical yes yes yes i'll totally butcher that so all these people out here like yeah david you're stupid i agree i agree i agree yes you and you and i both okay so basically then let's go to another one what is the inopportune one So inopportune is you either think you're too young or too old.

The timing is not right.

And this, a lot of people struggle with this.

This is like, okay, well, you know, like, I'm just too old to start a podcast, or I'm too old to write a book, or, you know, my time, it's passed me by.

But then you look at so many examples, like this Nola Oaks was 85 when she got her college graduate degree.

I mean, Rich Roll, we know in the podcast world, what was he like 55 when he started this podcast or something crazy?

He was actually just on this podcast.

There you go.

Figures.

He was like 50 or 49 or something.

I don't remember.

He was older.

But it's, it's that.

It's you're telling yourself that lie, or you're too young to do something and you can't do it.

So So what it sounds to me, these action archetypes are basically also just excuses that we give ourselves more than anything.

Yeah, a lot of it is.

But everything in not taking action is based in fear.

It's some type of fear.

It's some type of BS lie you're telling yourself.

It's true.

Yeah.

I mean, this is why, not to say this is the reason why I gravitated or like this book so much is because it does remind me similar messaging to my book, right?

Which is The Bigger, Better, bolder, which is, you know, usually we're not moving or we're not, there's no action take being taken because of some kind of self-doubt or something we tell ourselves.

It's the same thing.

It's like, oh, we're not old enough.

We're not young enough.

We're not talented enough.

We're not smart enough.

It's just like, but you have arranged it in a nice way where people can, I think people really like when they can, like, they can like present information that's under, like, it's very easy to understand and pinpoint, right?

Yeah, and you can understand where you are, who you are.

Totally.

People love archetypes all the time.

Oh, good.

Then everybody should buy this book, obviously.

Jeez.

Buy the book.

Buy do it.

So inopportune then is basically that I'm young, not I'm too young, not young enough, blah, blah, blah.

Yes.

How do you overcome that?

What is your tool to overcome that feeling?

Yeah, so the tool is called a now alarm.

And this is like you're going to take action now.

You literally set an alarm in your phone that goes off at a certain time every single day that that says now and you when it says now you have to you literally have to write down something that you are going to take action on now that you're doubting yourself on whether you're the older or the younger and then you're going to reach out to somebody who is either older or younger and ask them for advice or pour into them so it's those twofold things it's literally the main point of it though is that now alarm like it's going off you are taking action now you're not waiting for a better time you're not putting it off you're not procrastinating That's a good one.

And it's funny because like

procrastination is kind of like this sexy term now that people would throw, oh yeah, procrastinate on purpose.

You know, do better creative work.

No, there's studies, and there's a study in there, a Canadian study of thousands of people, 95% of them reported that they were less happy, they were more stressed when they procrastinated.

95%.

Well, I was going to say to you, in what world is procrastination sexy?

I don't think it's sexy in any world.

There's books written on it lately that have been coming out.

Really?

Yeah, they're like, you can do your best creative work when you procrastinate.

I've never seen that.

Seriously.

I'll tell you.

I'll show you.

Yeah, I thought that's weird because I just did a whole podcast on procrastination.

And it's like,

to me, it's like the, it is one of the biggest sources of stress because it's like something you're not, if it's always going to be lingering and it's something you're not doing.

So that's why I would think that I'm surprised there's books about this.

I totally agree.

Yeah.

I love the idea of that alarm because that actually is such an actionable thing where it will stop you from like you, it's an that's an actionable thing that people can do to propel them forward.

Yeah, totally.

Like it goes off.

Yeah.

You have to

have to do something.

Yes.

You literally have to do something.

I mean, you can actually like turn the alarm off and you don't have to do it.

You can do whatever you want with that.

But you know what's funny that I found too, like when we're talking about There's excuses and there's fear that everybody has.

There's, so self-esteem obviously is how you feel about yourself, your self-love.

And that's really important.

And a lot of people talk about that and I agree.

And then self-confidence is also very important because that is the, I mean, the self-awareness of who you are in a moment.

But it's self-efficacy that's actually the game changer.

It is self-esteem plus self-confidence because self-efficacy, tough one to get out, is acting as the person that you know and see yourself to be in the future.

100%.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, I write about a whole chapter on that.

That's, oh, there you go.

See, once again, I think, you know what?

I think I might have just stolen every chapter.

Did you just like rewrite my book?

Maybe.

Oh,

Jerry's out.

I mean, I'm just saying.

But no, self-efficacy is way more important.

It's a feeling of you believing that you can do something is way more important than anything.

If you think you can do something, then you can do something.

And it really does propel you to the action.

So true.

Right.

Because why people can't is because they're not able to see the future, the future principal opportunity of you look at a situation happens.

Okay.

You either look at it one of two ways.

It's the future principle or it's a lost opportunity.

Now, it's, hey, this happened.

Dang.

I'm going to regret that.

Oh, shoot.

Well,

I just got fired from my job.

Oh, it's over.

Or you look at it as a future opportunity of, oh, I got fired from my job, but I learned all these skill sets that I can use for this even better job so it's a one of two ways but if people can't see themselves as that future self then you have no idea where you are going and you will never get there that's 100 true

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You also talk about in your book, similar to mine,

the self-distancing thing, right?

The alter ego.

Yes.

How that's important important too.

Yes.

Now, in what area were you just referring to that?

Were you just talking about it?

It is a tool, and that's like, it is a tool of one of those archetypes, which I cannot remember which tool it is for right now, but it's a reverse alter ego.

Yeah, the reverse alter ego.

Yeah, so it is, it's,

I want to say it's the blamer.

I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, maybe not, maybe not.

No, I think you're probably right.

Okay.

Okay, because you take yourself, so you reverse the alter ego.

So here's how it works.

Like, if I did something in the past that I am still beholden to, like I was younger and I'm still in this frame of mind, I give myself, well, that was little Davey that did that.

That's my reverse alter ego.

Now I'm created, which we know as the alter ego is, you can have it as a superhero.

You can have Sasha Fierce or something like that or Wonder Woman or, yes.

Why do you know this?

Why is this my alter ego?

This could be my actual, that's maybe who I am.

That's what I'm saying.

But you become your alter ego.

I mean, you become your alter ego.

Superman and Clark Kent are the same person, right?

That's true.

There you go.

That's true.

You look like him a little bit.

Has anyone ever told you that before?

My love language is words of affirmation.

So thank you very much.

If you look a little bit like Clark Kennedy, don't you think so, Will?

Come on.

Can we get a movie deal?

The next Superman.

Come on, Will.

Give me some props.

Thank you.

A little bit quiet on his phone, but a little bit, right?

Hey, by the way, I wanted to kind of,

we'll go back to some of these other action archetypes, but why don't we talk a little bit first about how you became the NBA skills coach, like what your back.

Give me a little bit of origin story so people know how you even came to be someone who's writing these books.

We kind of skipped that part because we were just like.

Yeah, we just got into it.

Yeah, good point.

Yeah.

But like, because were you a men, were you a mind coach?

Were you a skill, physical skill coach?

Like,

which one were you?

Were you both at different points of your life?

Give me your origin.

So here's how it went.

I thought I was going to play in the NBA.

And I grew up in this small town of Iowa.

I got a vertical leap of about two inches.

So, I mean, parents probably should have said play tennis or golf, but I loved basketball.

Poured every waking hour into it.

Really?

Oh, yeah.

I loved it.

But I could shoot.

I had no athletic gene, but

I could shoot.

And that was my only gift.

So I got to play college basketball and I got to play professionally overseas.

And if we're being completely honest, it was probably more like the Will Farrell semi-pro type of professional overseas.

And we'll fast forward to year three.

I played in Australia, Greece, and Spain.

I'm playing in northern Spain in the Basque region.

They don't even speak Spanish up there.

Literally probably don't really know what basketball is, but I'm pouring in two a days, film study, like nutrition, like all of this kind of stuff.

And they're like, Where's the party drinking beers at halftime?

So I get cut from this team after the first preseason game, Jen.

Yeah.

So think about every hope, goal, and dream you had, no backup plan, and it's taken away away from you, turned upside down, and your face rubbed in the dirt.

So I

come back,

but you know what?

It's the greatest blessing.

You know, it's when something like that happens, when a door shuts, I'll show you why.

So I'm sitting on my, I'm living on my parents' recliner chair, feeling bad for myself in Kansas City.

And my mom would always say these motivational and inspirational quotes.

And usually it was whatever mom, in one ear, out the other ear.

But she said this one that stuck with me.

I was kicked back in the chair.

She was doing dishes.

She said, David, when one door closes, four open in an entire beachfront patio overlooking the ocean.

I was like, hold up, mom.

I thought it was one door, one door.

What's this?

Four doors beachfront deal here you got going.

But it hit me is that when a door closes, it's not a door shutting on your life.

It's an opportunity for four more doors to open for something bigger and better to come, realizing that my gift was not to play in the NBA, but it was to coach players with more God-given abilities, seven-foot height, and athleticism to do so.

So I made it my goal right then and there.

I was going to coach in the NBA.

How old are you at this point?

24.

Okay.

And so here you are, like basically crying in your mom's recliner.

Yeah.

She gave you this whole, this whole like, this thing about the four doors.

And you're like, now's my time to become an NBA coach, which, by the way, is not exactly an easy thing to do either.

Forget about being an NBA player.

How does one even become an NBA coach?

Like, what is the, yeah, what is the even process?

Is there an application that I get on NBA at NBA.com?

Like, what do I do?

That's funny.

Yeah, very good question.

Great stuff.

So I hand wrote a letter to every NBA GM.

I decided, like, I was going to take action on this because you can't just sit around and wait for the phone to ring.

I'm like, hey, I'm sure the NBA knows I want to coach.

No, that didn't happen that way.

Yeah.

Nobody got back to me.

I kept checking the mail.

Month and a half later, there's...

Handwritten letters?

Handwritten letters.

So how many?

And don't exaggerate.

30.

30 NBA teams.

Handwritten letters.

Every single one.

The actual coach?

I sent it to whatever address I could find.

It was mostly, it was more management, assistant GM, GM, not the coaches.

So I sent it to front office management.

Nothing back for a month and a half.

I get a call from a 310 area code number.

That's Los Angeles.

It's the GM of the Clippers at the time, Gary Sachs.

We have a quick conversation.

At the end of it, he says, if you're ever out in LA, look me up.

We'll grab coffee.

Just being nice.

Basically, good luck with the rest of your life, kid.

He actually wrote you an actual call.

No, no, no, call.

Phone call.

Phone call.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it was a quick phone call.

So I took that as an opportunity.

Yeah, it was very nice.

He's one of the nicest guys.

I took that as an opportunity.

I booked a ticket, spent all my money, stole some of my parents' money, literally, to book a ticket to be in LA to act like I was going to do a basketball camp the following week.

So I prepared my butt off for this meeting.

I'm studying up for it, and I'm nervous as can be.

I can literally still remember walking into his room, sweating through my button-up shirt that I had on.

I was so nervous, but we hit it off.

Great meeting.

Every NBA connection I've ever gotten.

Eric Spolster is a very good friend, or even the job I got with the Nets later down the line stemmed from Gary Sachs.

I ended up living with him when I moved to LA.

He's in my wedding.

He's one of my best friends to this day.

We talk all the time because I took the chance when I was scared to take a risk of writing every handwritten letter.

When I had like, what did I have to lose though?

But most people will make some excuse like, no, well, why would they want me, you know?

And it leads to that.

So fast forward five years, I was running basketball camps.

I created this because now I had to make myself like the NBA would want me.

I couldn't once again just wait for Gary to say, hey, this guy, David, take him.

Well, wait, hold on.

I want to hear how this, how, how it played out.

You said cut to your, he's in your wedding, you're staying with him.

Before you cut to, how did the relationship evolve from that point?

So here you are, you're, you sweat through your shirt, you're meeting with this guy

in his office.

Yeah.

And then what was the first thing that kind of kind of happened from that meeting?

So I knew I had to make the NBA want me.

To do what?

Because here you are, a 24-year-old kid.

To be a shooting coach.

That was my one gift.

So I realized this is what I can do.

I can teach this.

So that was the thing you were the best at, right?

I can become the best shooting coach.

So I looked up who is the best shooting coach.

It was Chip England for the San Antonio Spurs.

So I seeked out Chip England.

I would write him emails.

I would call their number.

Never got back to me.

So I go out to the Las Vegas.

I figured out where do all the NBA people hang out.

In any industry, there's always some place that everybody comes together.

This is Las Vegas Summer League, hot 100-degree weather in July.

So I go out there year after year and I'm connected with people.

I love relationships.

I would get business cards and stay in touch.

You're very good.

By the way, I will say that David is one of the best networkers, connectors, and maintainers of relationships.

That's how we met.

You reached out to me.

Totally.

And, you know, he's very upbeat and happy.

And you did.

You reached out to me and like,

in a very like, very like aggressive, but yet sweet, nice way, relentless and tenacious.

And, like, not to say I'm anything special, but what I find interesting is that, like, he like beats you down in a nice way, and then you become friends with this, this person where you don't even remember how you became friends with them, which is exactly how you did it.

And that's your, that's your secret sauce.

Oh, that's nice.

It's true, because you, you are unrelenting and you do it in a way, which is, I think, the next book is like how you can do that.

Because I think that is, to me, really the secret sauce of how people go from A to B.

But anyway, that's cool.

That's what I think.

That's a really good book concept.

I know.

See ya, since I stole this one.

I know.

Well, actually, now I can steal this.

I'm actually going to be writing that.

So don't you dare take it.

I've already got a different one going, man.

But okay, so then, so now let me ask you something.

So now you're in Gary's office, right?

Have you done any of these summer season Vegas things yet?

Not when I was in Gary's office.

So after that, I did.

But okay, so, okay, so then you, did he give you that idea or you figured it out?

No, I just figured like they ought to be somewhere and I really wanted to meet this guy Chip England.

Okay.

So I finally meet him.

I see him walking down the Las Vegas Thomas and Mack Arena corridor.

Okay.

And I spark up a conversation with he obviously knew that I was hitting him up a zillion times in email.

And he's like, hey, I respect that.

You're really trying to get there.

And he took me under his wing and he gave me some great advice I used for years and years when I was training players.

But the thing that I had to do is also what I was saying, like make the NBA want me, become a great shooting coach.

Part of that was that Aaron Gordon working with him.

That was all in that process: I was living out of my car for five years, doing basketball camps for anybody that would take me in.

I custom-made these terrible leather, like super bad basketballs, sent them to the Oakland Seaport.

I drove 29 hours from Kansas City to Oakland with these long-haul truckers all around me.

I'm piling balls into my car.

That's when I spend the next five years living out of the back,

literally living out of my car sleeping in well-lit Walmart parking lots did you really oh yeah multiple times yeah what for how long about five years or not just sleep but most of the time I was crashing on friends couches okay but sometimes are you saying seriously you're sleeping in oh it's probably 10 10 to 15 nights I would okay instead of pay 49.99 because I looked at as like one person at a camp was $40.

Did I really want to spend a night at a hotel or just sleep in the back of a car?

I didn't care.

It was fine.

Good for you.

Yeah.

And so that's how, and so this whole time you were now keeping in touch with Gary Sachs.

And all these other people that I'd made relationships with.

So five years go by.

I wake up.

Probably, what, you're 29?

20.

I think I was 28 then.

So it was 24 to 28.

So then I wake up in Melbourne, Australia, and I get an email.

It says Brooklyn Nets shooting coach.

And I didn't know anybody from the Nets.

So I literally thought it was somebody playing a joke.

But I opened it up, and that next week, I'm in Brooklyn as their shooting coach.

Stop it.

Yeah.

That's how you ended up there.

That's how I ended there.

Two months after the season started, I came on.

Now, the crazy story is, now here's the other, the door closing for opening so we go from 28th to second in three-point shooting percentage probably the worst culture at the time like i could tell you crazy wild stories about nba culture that they just blow your mind but anyways no that's what i want yeah hello that's what i find interesting i don't want to hear about all this other like like sugary surface i want to hear about this let me tell you the truth about NBA cultures and now it's obviously there's really good ones and that's the ones that are special and everybody wants to be everybody says yeah it's all about culture but until you actually realize what culture means, you can't just get there.

Because here's the thing that stands in the way of every culture, whether it's business or sports.

It's a three-letter word called ego.

Everybody has it.

It's crazy.

The trainers are holding players out so they have impact on the game.

The equipment managers aren't given the right shoes.

So they have it.

I could not believe it.

I was working with players because I love it.

Like that's that was my passion.

There'd be assistant coaches that would come over to me and MF me telling me not to work with that player because that's their player.

Are you kidding me?

Aren't we all on the same page to try to win a championship?

But it's very rare that everybody is on the same page.

Most people from the outside looking in, they're thinking like, oh, NBA job, that's so great.

And I had a great experience.

Yeah.

But I would never go back.

No, I don't know if you know this.

You know, I used to work for the NBA too.

I didn't know that.

Yes, it was my first job.

Oh, I was a great friend of mine.

Now you're just giving me this information.

Well, because it was so irrelevant to anything else I've ever done.

It was my first job, and I was in like the sales team of like i was it was like i was really young i was like 19 or 20 and i like i literally hustled my way into the job by like i would like i was so tenacious with the head of something i like i like found some like big executive there and i was like that's awesome like a dog with a bone i'm like i want to work it was like the first year the raptors were playing

yes

and it was like tom bito oh no bit well no what was the name of the person i don't remember the owner or whatever whatever.

Anyway, I was relentless.

They're like, fine, this girl is so annoying.

We're going to give her a job in sales.

And it was me and a bunch of guys.

And I crushed the guys.

That's not my point.

My point is everyone was so different than I expected it to be within the culture.

It is very cutthroats, very competitive.

People were very like.

very um yeah it's for them yeah it was they're totally cutthroat it's like they'd walk on eggshells and act like they were their your friend but you knew deep down like they weren't.

It was like very two-faced, but I didn't know if it was just like corporate culture because I'd never had a job like that or if it was like that culture, but I hated it.

Anyway, I'm digressing.

So then go on.

So then they no, no, no, that's such a cool story.

That's you had a story.

Okay, this, I have to ask this because this story blew my mind and I never heard it before.

And it's probably me being a bad question asker that I didn't get it out of you.

Okay.

But you had an Instagram story of how you reached out.

It was to some actor, big actor that you really looked up to, and somehow they got back to you you know what I'm talking about it was Kiana Reeves that's the one but you have to watch my TED talk this is that to me is too long of a story okay okay you got and we'll talk about it later but yes and that's like that my whole TED talk was based on that but mind-blowing yeah it was amazing that was an amazing story but you and I are very similar and that's why I appreciate so many things about what you do and how you've done it because it's the same mind it's the same tactics i would say that i would what i would do and i've done So that's it.

But go on.

It's habits and hustle.

That's what it really is.

It actually really is.

There's a reason why it's called habits and hustle is because it's like it is me personified, right?

So good.

That's so good.

It makes a ton of sense.

It makes a ton of sense.

Okay, so go on.

So then you're working there and like you were like very, it was very kind of like competitive and hard with some of these.

Yeah.

With the equipment.

Why would the equipment guy give you a hard time though?

Ego.

That's it.

But about what?

Like, I don't understand.

Great.

Me neither, you know, but every like, so there's two ends of the spectrum.

It's you either have, let's say it's at 0% on the left.

That is ego all about yourself.

On the right side is full alignment with God of who you are made to be.

Every day you wake up and it's a battle to try to get to the right side.

Society, everything is dragging us down to the ego.

Oh, you need to do you, do you, your way, your way.

But that's never the way.

And when it gets infested into teams and the corporations,

ego explodes.

It doesn't matter what role you're in.

Everybody has it.

So how long did you last?

So to the end of the season, all right, we go from 28th to second in three-point shooting percentage.

The GM is telling me, we'll give you a three-year deal.

I'm getting New York media hype of like this young up-and-coming development coach.

So I figured like, I'm in.

Look at me, like feeling myself and everything.

And me being young and dumb.

Like if someone says, hey, we'll give you a three-year contract, I would have said, okay, let's sign now.

But I'm like, all right, cool.

I trust you.

I go back home for a couple of weeks, you know, in the offseason.

And then I come back to to start the offseason development workouts.

New head coach comes in, boom, fired.

Just like that, I'm out.

And there's crazy stories with this head coach that comes full circle and this guy, Kenny Atkinson.

It's a crazy, a couple crazy stories of lessons that I learned there, but I get fired.

So it's the one door closing.

Four open in a beachfront patio overlooking the ocean.

I'm devastated at the time.

I thought I was in the NBA.

That was my goal.

I thought I was in forever and good, you know?

So then I come out to Los Angeles and I'm working for UCLA.

A friend of mine coached UCLA.

And then I meet this guy, Casey Wasserman, and he brings me on to work with all his top NBA players.

I know Casey Wasserman.

Yes.

Yes.

Casey's awesome.

Yes.

So wait, is Casey the kid that started Wasserman Group, right?

Casey started Wasserman Group.

Yep, yep.

So I started working for his, training NBA players.

It's all these amazing, talented players.

I end up meeting my wife and like all this would not have happened had I still been in Brooklyn coaching for the Nets.

So you weren't even there very long.

In Brooklyn?

Yeah.

No, I was there for 10 months.

That's nothing.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

And then you got here, you did all these other players.

Who was the biggest player that you worked with?

That I worked with like as through a year or that I had on the court training?

Because there's a different, like, I'll never say, a lot of NBA trainers will be like, whoever steps on the court is my guy.

I won't do that.

Okay, no, no, no.

Just name me a name that you actually worked with.

Yeah, so Jeremy Lynn's one of my closest friends.

I worked with him for a long time.

Kyle Corber, one one of the top shooters in NBA history.

Gordon Hayward, Norm Powell, I've worked with for 10 years.

Kelly O'Linick.

Skills.

Skills.

It's not just shooting.

It's like dribbling, playmaking, high IQ situations.

So it's how you can become the best on the basketball court.

Okay, wait a minute.

Do you know Drew Hanlon?

One of my very good friends.

I have a crazy story with Drew of knowing him for 15 years and being jealous of him.

And just like, I really resented Drew because he'd always get better players than me.

Yeah.

And then he's really, he's like, isn't he one of the best in the business?

Yeah, he's amazing.

He's a great guy.

And then, like, I met him and I was like, this dude's really cool.

I like this guy.

I was like, why was I resenting him?

And then we put our forces together.

Now we've become really good friends.

I'm, I'm helping him on some stuff with his book.

He's got a podcast out now.

He's awesome.

I love him.

He's awesome.

He was actually one of my first guests on this podcast.

Super cool.

That's so fun.

So, you were doing what he was doing, basically.

Yeah, pretty much the same thing.

He would just get all-stars.

I mean, I'd get a a few all-stars,

but he had everybody.

He had like Jason Tatum, Joel L.

Embiid.

Yeah, is he still doing it, though?

Still doing it.

Yeah, still doing it.

He would tell me he would watch hours and hours of footage, like crazy.

Yeah, so there's a lot to it.

So that's when I realized I was, it was a summertime of 2018 and I was, or 2019, and I was training.

I had like 28 like superstar, big-time NBA players, like all of Wasserman's guys and other guys came in for pickup runs.

And I was running the pickup runs, training them.

And I just realized, like, I'm not excited about doing this anymore.

I literally passed out from exhaustion one time on court.

I just, like, I did not want to wake up and go to the gym the next day.

And that would have been my dream job, but I realized it wasn't about the training and like the step back jumper or the dribbling ball move that I loved.

I loved encouraging and seeing players get excited about something bigger than just the tangibles of the basketball court.

Their mind, their confidence.

I I was like, ooh, I like this.

And I was gifted at it.

I was able to really reach them and actually give them this true, like create these, figure out these tools inside them to be able to use for a bigger purpose.

It's like, well, if basketball players need it, like, I'm sure other people could use this too.

So I got connected, a friend became a friend, John Gordon, who's done, I mean, amazing things for me.

And he's a huge author and speaker.

And he like showed me how to do it.

And then I have a crazy wild story of how I actually got my first keynote talk, which is wild in itself, but I realized that's what I was passionate about doing.

Wait, so then let's get it back.

Let's circle it back to this Gary guy because I still don't know how he helped you.

So it sounds like you went on your own and you did.

What did he end up doing for you then?

So he introduced me to so many NBA people.

So Eric Spolster for the Miami Heats, a very good friend of mine from Gary Sachs.

I end up getting the next job through Gary Sachs referrals.

They were looking for a development guy, and it came from Gary.

And then there's just why didn't Gary hire you for the Clippers?

Because so Doc Rivers came on.

And when Doc came on, Doc took full autonomy.

So Doc now became the guy who made every single decision.

So Gary was the acting GM, but Doc was like the president, the coach, the actual GM.

So he no longer had that decision-making power.

Got it.

Okay.

And then how much do you guys get paid as shooting coaches or

skills coaches?

It just, it really varies.

So as a shooting coach, I was getting 10,000 a month.

So, not great.

So, no matter how many people you train?

No.

So, yeah, in the NBA for the Nets, no matter how, yeah, it's

that's your salary.

Yeah, but it varies.

Like, if you're first assistant, you're probably making between $500,000 and $800,000.

If you're second assistant, it just scales down.

You go on first assistant, second.

Yeah, I don't know exactly what it is, but it'll keep scaling down to like if you're sixth or seventh assistant, it's probably like $100,000, $150,000.

It's not that much.

So, when you're doing individuals for the Wasserman group, how are you getting paid through that?

Is it the Wasserman group?

Is are you one retainer for them?

Okay, you are.

And how much do you get paid on a retainer with that?

Not anywhere close to what I should have made any paid.

Of course.

We all know that.

But like, what it was.

It was low.

It wasn't high.

It wasn't high.

Give me a range.

Give me a range.

Because that's what people want to know.

They want to know like the DFA.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they termed it, I love the Wasserman agents.

Let's just put it that way, but they termed it as a part-time job.

I would say part-time, no chance.

It was a completely full-time job.

Yeah, Yeah, of course.

It was $6,000 a month.

Okay, and how many hours were you working part-time?

Holy geez,

7 a.m.

to sometimes 8 p.m.

Jesus.

And you're doing, wow.

Because it would be a break, but then you come back in the evenings.

And if anybody player wanted to train, it was, I mean, Casey Wasserman, what are you doing?

You're really, you're like, you're like one of the richest guys in the world.

What are you doing?

He didn't really do much with them, but like, he kind of oversees everything.

It wasn't.

I know.

He wasn't like day-to-day.

I understand.

I love Casey.

I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding, Casey.

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Okay, so then that's what you are doing.

And then that's how you kind of like transcend it into more of not just basketball, but like people in general.

Okay, I get that.

Wait, I have another question because I remember, isn't your, someone you're involved with at the Raptors like an uncle?

Yes, that's what I was saying with the Raptors.

He's the head coach for the Raptors now.

Okay, so how did that happen?

How is your uncle?

And is it like a real uncle or like

not just like he was my mentor?

I lived with him.

He was my best friend.

And is he your mom's brother?

My dad's brother.

Yeah.

And he's the head coach.

Head coach.

Yep.

Yep.

So when did that happen?

Did that help help you?

Did you not get involved with him?

No, so he was in the he was just kind of starting in the NBA G League.

So he wasn't anywhere close to the NBA.

So he didn't have, I mean, he had connections, but it wasn't really like a...

How are you both doing the same thing?

How did he get that thing?

His story is wild.

And I tell this story as like a overnight success story.

So people looked at him because he won the NBA championship as a head coach for the Toronto Raptors in his first head coaching season in the NBA.

So everybody's like, oh, lightning strikes in a bottle.

Lucky, you got so lucky.

No, he'd been a head coach for 27 years in countries like England.

I went over there to Brighton, England, where he like, nobody knows you play basketball in Brighton.

He was taping players' ankles, popping popcorn at halftime.

I kid you not.

It was like dark, damp arenas.

But everywhere he went, crazy places, taking zero money as a head coach.

He believed he was going to be an NBA head coach.

Like he fully believed and he lived in that.

Like we're talking about that self-efficacy.

He lived in that every day.

And eventually it happened.

He prepared his ass off for that.

So he was an overnight success in 27 years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Everybody sees that.

Yeah.

Nobody sees it 27 years.

Wow.

How old is he?

55.

Is he still there?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He won the coach of the year a couple years ago.

I remember.

Yeah, he's one of the best.

He's awesome.

He's one of the best coaches.

So has he been able to like now?

Why don't you go, can't you be training the Raptors now?

Yeah, I mean, probably.

I don't ask that i don't know like i kind of isn't it kind of obvious like wouldn't he say

hey nephew of mine you know i know this is what you do for a living normally yeah i know you're trying you're you're doing all these things now but do you want to

have you've never asked him well i've i i never ask him that like i just can't it's it probably sounds weird to most people but i've seen him be very successful i'm like i just i'll just let you do your thing man like if he wants it He knows he can ask, but I don't ever want to push it for him.

You've never had the conversation?

I've actually, actually, Jen, it's crazy, right?

I've actually never had that conversation.

And I've trained some of his players just because the players have reached out to me, but I've never, I've never seen him.

Are you guys close?

We're close.

Okay, I heard how your voice went up.

We're close.

Meaning, I'm not so close.

Okay, I have enough said there.

Back to the book, because that's like, well, we're close means no, not that close.

Okay, let's go back to the book then because now I have all the information that I need about that.

Let's talk more.

Give me a couple.

Let's wrap it up.

Let's give me a couple more just archetypes of action people, and then we can, I'll let you out of here.

Let's go with the perfectionist and the test believer.

How's those two?

Good ones, good ones, good ones.

Okay, the perfectionist is, I mean, that is someone who literally thinks they have to have everything spot on before they can even take the first step.

And there's never going to be anything that you have together perfectly before you're able to go.

And it's such a debilitating thing to have.

I just like, I don't know, that one drives me nuts that people can't just see that.

Like, you learn so much along the way.

What's the saying?

Ready, fire, aim?

Ready, I think it's ready, fire, aim.

As opposed to ready, aim, fire.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and so people hold themselves back from like

if the only way you learn something and like, let's say you're starting a business is you're going to fail.

There's a stat that of the success, like super, they, super successful multi-billionaire business owners that started businesses like Henry Ford, Walt Disney, a ton of these guys.

They went through 7.2 massive roadblocks, meaning bankruptcies, failures, all these different things.

Like Starbucks, there was, I'll butcher this number, but it was like 17 Starbucks stores in the first 18 years.

Now there's a Starbucks on every corner and Starbucks within Starbucks.

I know, that's interesting.

In the first 18 years, only, are you sure that number is either 18 or 19 years?

It's something that will blow your mind.

I might have it off by one year, but it's very, very close on that.

You're right.

Like now, like, it's like weird.

Like, you go to a Starbucks, it just literally

hate that when I type in Starbucks and it says me to Target?

I know.

I don't know.

It's 100%.

Like, right here, you could go to,

there's a Starbucks in, like, Ralph's or wherever.

Yeah.

At a Target, and then a Starbucks in the Target, and they're regular Starbucks.

So you don't know what Starbucks is.

There's three Starbucks on the same pin that you're on.

But the point being is they went through 7.2 massive roadblocks and like they didn't have it together perfectly.

They learned how to continue to improve and improve, but people don't see that part of it.

Right.

And so how do people get over the, how do people get over that hump?

Like a tool, give me one.

The tool, I'm not, I can't actually remember, this sounds bad as writing the own book.

I can't remember the exact tool I gave for that one.

There's a lot of different ways to get over perfectionism.

And it's, I mean, one of the biggest ways is just, oh, I do remember this one, Jen.

It came back to me.

It's your failure notes.

So instead of celebrating successes, because most people will celebrate success, right?

So you sell, it's a celebration of your failures.

So you're literally, anytime you fail, you're writing it down in your journal and you're celebrating the opposite.

You're celebrating the failures.

And those failures ultimately are going to lead you to having it the way it's supposed to be, or that you're actually able to bring impact through what you're doing.

So

it's a journal of celebration of failures.

That's your tool.

That it is.

Okay.

And then let's do that last one, which is.

The test believer.

So the test believer is somebody who will look at the horoscopes or the Enneagram and they'll think, well, since that's what it says about me, that's who I am.

Right?

You've seen those people like horoscopes like, oh, well, Mercury's in retrograde, so I just, you know, I just, I'm not going to have a good month.

Yes.

Or you know what?

That's so funny.

Someone just said that to me yesterday.

I'm like, come on.

Like, Mercury's a retrograde like half the year.

So is that always that you're fall back yet?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the tool for this one's a hilarious one, too.

You'll like this one.

But before we get to that point, and it is called Go Retrograde, the tool for this one.

Okay.

But the one that really kills me is when people say, well, I can't go out and meet people.

I'm an introvert.

Yeah.

I'm like,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I mean, you might get your energy from being alone, but that doesn't mean you can't go talk to somebody right people will put that label on themselves or I'm introverted I'm extroverted and that's who they are and that's who they live in and every decision is based through that I think that's a bunch of BS.

Right.

So when you just label yourself with a with you basically paint this brush of like this is who I am and therefore I can't step out because that gives you an excuse to stay where you are basically.

Yeah, or the the Myers-Briggs.

That's the story of this one of Catherine Briggs of how this came to be and how she was labeling herself and finally figured out, like, well, this is actually a bunch of BS, which needs to stop in LA because it's getting out of control, and I'm not going to pay taxes anymore if it keeps raining.

Yeah, well, we're the last ones here anyway.

So, yeah, we should close the lights and then because it's like nobody's in LA anymore.

But anyway, go on.

Okay, sorry.

So, basically, how do you get over that?

Besides, yeah, the Go Retrograde one is just this is more of an awareness tool of it, and it shows every single like description of Myers-Briggs.

It shows every description of Enneagram.

It shows every description of horoscopes.

And you see all of these things written out there and you're able to pick which ones stand out to you.

And it ends up being literally like coming from all different things.

And it's, you're never just one.

The point of it is showing that you are not just one.

Like it's, you'll select which ones apply to you, and it's this whole mishmash.

And you're like, oh, well, I guess I can't be labeled as just whatever this says.

Right.

So it's supposed to give you that awareness.

Supposed to.

Supposed to.

And we know that you said that you were at the beginning of this podcast.

You said you're number one, right?

You were.

The alley.

Now I don't care at all what other people think.

No, I'm not that.

Let's see.

What do I be?

I'm not.

There's different situations where I'm some different things.

I mean, it's going to sound bad if I say I'm not any of them right now.

I guess I would be more of the, you know what, you know what?

I'll give it to like maybe I'm more of the inopportune where sometimes I want and it's not even that as much as like I want things to happen faster than they do and I think well am I too young to be that I don't know

how old do you think I am I think you're 37 oh so close 36 Really?

That was a good guess.

Wow, okay, well, you're so young.

So you should be like, maybe you are too young for certain things.

That's what I think.

That's what I think i think that i feel like you've done a lot though yeah i feel i've been doing it for a long time like i've been doing this

12 13 years you got to talk to your uncle I know I think that's what maybe that's the one we need to come with maybe it's the blamer maybe I'm blaming somebody no I don't I think this is burnt am I burnt not burnt what would it be like you're not take your self-doubt is stopping you so you would be the

maybe you're not the distracted the underestimator that could be the one.

I don't know if I'm the underestimator.

I was for a while.

Maybe you.

Well, what if you underestimate what your uncle will say?

Ooh, is that possible?

Could possibly be.

Yeah.

I mean,

like, have you, how often?

And I'm really curious.

I'm going to go back to your uncle here.

Here we are, like, it's like the pink elephant in the room.

Here you are, you know, like you're making all these contacts within the NBA.

You're working for like $4.50 with Casey Wasserman.

Sorry, Casey.

And you're playing all these things, writing all these books.

Your uncle is literally one of the best, is considered the best coach in the NBA right now, won the championship with the Raptors, and yet you're not hitting him up.

You'll hit everybody else up to help with everything because that's your nature.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In a good, nice way.

But the one person who has the chops and the ability to help you, you're not doing it.

So I'm not really that interested in getting back into the NBA, nor am I of gaining this massive NBA client per Drew Hanlon as much.

So I don't have that desire.

Does he work with Drew Hanlon?

I don't know.

I don't think so.

I mean, I don't think Drew works directly with any coach.

I don't think so.

He knows them.

He just works with the players.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

So I talked to Nick, and we, like, we communicate, we share ideas.

I watched them win the NBA championship together.

Did you go to the game?

Oh, yeah.

I was there celebrating in the locker room with him.

I was there at the hotel with him till 4 a.m.

It's like after he was celebrating, playing his keyboard like he always does.

Like he didn't even know what was going on really to the monstrosity of what just happened in Canada.

So my desire isn't there as much.

And I mean, I don't think it's like, it's not necessarily like if I, what am I going to ask?

Like, hey, bring me on to coach, but I don't want to coach.

No, no, not bring me on.

What can I ask?

Give me something good to ask.

I'm going to think about it.

I'm going to think about something.

I'm going to, because now my brain is like ruminating over this.

And I'm going to get back to you.

I promise you I am.

I'm going to get back to you.

Because

there's like a disconnect to me here that there's like a disconnect.

And I'm going to figure it out.

And I'm going to get back to you.

This is good.

Yes.

Because I've heard that a couple of times.

I'm like, well, I don't understand.

Because I didn't know the chronological order of your career, really.

I knew you were at the Brooklyn Nets and I knew you did this.

And so where is, by the way, like to wrap this up into a nice tiny bow, where is Gary now?

Is he still at the Clippers?

No.

So he is one of the scouts, one of the head scouts with the Charlotte Hornets.

But he's still in L.A.

So he's like the West Coast Scout kind of scouting manager.

Oh, interesting.

Interesting.

I still see him all the time.

We have barbecues.

He's the nicest guy there is.

So you don't want to, so now, like, what's next for you besides writing those?

Good question.

More books are coming.

Whatever Jen writes, I'm going to take it and steal it.

No, I'm going to do it.

That's it.

I'm going to do a show.

I'm going to do a show.

I've got some different show concepts.

Okay.

Of what?

Like ways I can...

Shows, like, you're gonna have a show on like all the ways you stole my content.

Reality show.

I am Jen Cohen.

Exactly.

That'll be on Netflix in 2024.

No, so you're gonna write this book.

What else?

I mean, after this book, what else is I've done?

Got another book that's coming up.

I've already

started working on that.

And then the show concepts, which I'm not going to share what those are in case somebody steals those before I actually get those made.

Okay, fair, fair.

But they're in there.

Okay, fair, fair.

What else?

Going to Bora Bora for our wedding anniversary.

me and my wife that's nice super excited about how long are you going for 10 days very nice the huts beautiful oh my gosh okay so have you been i feel like you've been to every island i've been nowhere first of all i have not been there actually um i wish i was i really i have i want to go though especially i'm looking outside to this horrible rain oh my god it is raining again it's raining like every it's like doesn't stop here my house is like falling in it's like a money pit the ceiling has literally fallen in it's like i have like it's flooding on every direction, which is why I need to wrap this and go check it out.

But it was a pleasure having you on my podcast.

Yeah, this was so much fun.

No, it really was.

I'm happy that we got to do this.

Do we get to hang out in person sometime?

We can do it.

We take this like friendship to the next level.

We can.

Hey, let's hang.

We can.

Let's kick it.

We can do it.

We can do it.

We can definitely, now that I've met you in person, we can definitely hang out again.

Yes.

This is exciting.

So tell everybody, Mr.

David, where they can find you and your book.

DavidNurse.com.

obviously here at Jen Cohen's studio right now.

Thank you.

If you're creeping.

Yes.

Anywhere books are sold,

podcasts, the David Nurse Show, social media, pretty easy to be found.

The basics.

The basics.

The basics.

Well, thank you.

I think we can wrap.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.