Episode 481: Aliza Kelly: Why Astrology Is Actually a Data-Driven System (And How Accurate It Really Is)

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins.

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All right, you guys, we're in for a big treat on today's episode.

It's going to be a super fun episode.

We have Eliza, right?

I said it right.

Thank God.

Kelly,

who is an astrologer.

Would you say you're also a tarot, I mean, tarot card reader?

Well, overall, what do you call yourself?

I call myself an astrologer.

Okay.

And recently, I have given myself permission to say spiritual coach, which feels like a big undertaking.

Coach is coach is a hardcore word.

Yeah.

I get scared of the word coach.

I don't love the word coach.

Maybe we can like workshop something else.

Yeah, because it's an overword, overused term.

I can't stand it.

Everyone's a coach now.

Yes, but people also know what it means and signifies.

And I do feel like, what are my other options?

Like, to say, like, miss, I was trying to do like a modern mystic, and I was like, that's so cheesy.

Like, that doesn't, that doesn't hit for me.

Did you chat GPT yet?

No, no, no.

I'm not.

I'm not going to ask ChatGPT right now because I think, like, by the way, I love ChatGPT.

It like gives me so much great information.

I actually did this with Peter Crohn on the podcast.

Remember, he calls himself an architect, like a mind architect, and we had to find an, oh, was it Peter?

No, it wasn't.

It was Jim Curtis.

Do you know Jim Curtis?

Oh.

So, and we are like going through all these like synonyms.

But coach, how about expert?

Advisor?

I like expert.

I like expert.

That's nice.

Advisor maybe feels, I feel like when I get into the advisor, it gets into some some like dicey territory with like psychic advisors and like that kind of can open conversations I don't want to have.

But expert is nice.

Right.

Expert is nice.

Well, what, what kind of classifies anybody as a spiritual coach anyway?

Like, how do you become a speaker?

Like, why would you now feel it's okay to call yourself a spiritual coach?

Well, it's because I've been doing this work for now 12 years.

So I have, you know, I have sort of like my own tenure, my own time with it.

Because the work is not exclusively astrology, because it's not exclusively tarot, because it's not exclusively manifestation.

It's like sort of a hybrid of all of these.

I'm also very interested in like just people and systems and like wellness and how we can live better lives through these different types of spiritual systems.

So trying to sort of figure out like what, that's a mouthful, right?

So like, what is the best way for me to communicate all the things that I do and feel passionately about and feel sort of like an expert or coach in?

So do people come to you?

Like, how do you, like, are you, like, do people come to you as like a spiritual coach or advisor and say, listen, do they come with you with a very specific particular problem or is it overall?

Like, do you be, are you ever on retainer for people?

Or is it just more you read what their charts are saying and you do their tarot cards and then they're on their way?

Like, what's the process?

It's sort of all of the above.

Okay.

I am on retainer with clients that I've been working with now for years and years and years, you know, pre-COVID, you know, like a long time.

Yeah.

I've gone, went through a whole global pandemic right there.

I also occasionally have my books open for one-off sessions.

I also make myself available, you know, on the internet through like AMA questions,

through my podcast, Horoscope Weekly.

I'll do different events or have different opportunities for people to like submit questions for me to answer.

So it kind of runs the gamut.

You know, it can be the sort of like touch point one-off where someone has a specific question they want to know, or it could be really working together to figure out what does it mean to shape and create your life using these different practices.

So like what, but once you kind of read somebody's chart, does the chart change?

Does it like ebb and flow?

Or is it just like once you know your stuff, is that that, that, is that all?

It's sort of,

there's a few different answers.

The chart is sort of your blueprint.

It is sort of this, you know, this static architecture for who you are.

But planets in the sky activate different things in the chart at different times.

So there's different cycles that we go through.

And based on what cycle one is going through, the chart is going to light up in different ways.

There's going to be certain themes, certain narratives that sort of rise to the top of significance and importance in that person's life.

And then there's a whole other theory, which is progressions, which is basically your chart maturing through time.

That moves more slowly.

That starts to get more interesting as we get older.

But that actually does change the chart as we get older and go through time.

So like, that's why I guess people would kind of constantly come back to you, right?

With the same kind of, even though that's a blueprint, like you said, depending on where the planets are or just for where we are in like in like life or society, things can have a different effect, right?

Yes.

Yes.

And I think that, you know, a lot of the work that we do

with astrology, with tarot, with manifestation, with magic, with like, with really having agency over your spirituality and figuring out how to work with the universe, how to work with these magical systems is an opportunity to meet yourself where you are and then also go as deep as you need to go in order to understand yourself better.

I think that astrology is really, you know, all of these practices, but, you know, my, my sort of my core practice is astrology.

And it's, uh, it's a pathway into healing and into understanding yourself from a really, really comprehensive point of view.

And for me, you know, working with this system for so many years, like I see how it changes people's lives and I see how it improves people's lives.

It makes them braver.

It makes them more confident.

It makes them more courageous.

Oh, yeah.

Like, how accurate is it?

I mean, mean, it's as accurate as, it's as accurate as it is.

You know, I, do you feel it's act, like, so like,

I'll explain that, right?

Because I've had my charts read many, many times, right?

And but you don't know your time of birth.

But I don't know my time of birth, which by the way, hopefully my mom will have called me while we're doing this.

This is like, this is, this is the call heard around the world.

This is the most important call of your life.

I know.

And I, I really hope that she recognizes and realizes it and doesn't get distracted.

Because I don't, she, and this is what I mean, my mother doesn't remember exactly the time so she gave me like an approximation 738 a.m.

But okay so let's pretend someone has their their proper you know time and everything else like what I've always noticed is that people read into the information that they're given how they want to read into it right or they give you know so I find like it's all perception is sometimes reality, right?

I guess you're different than a psychic.

So let's talk about that.

I I think that's where it comes.

Okay.

So

what is the difference?

Like a psychic says that they have this idea in their head and they see things that the person is going to experience.

And astrology, you being an astrologist, you actually are using data that's in your numbers, right?

Yes.

And so my question, I guess, roundabout way of saying, is astrology

accurate or on point when to get people the answers they want?

Yes.

Okay.

The simple answer to that is astrology is incredibly accurate and pointed.

And then to answer some of the other questions in there, psychics

have very unique systems to themselves.

I am not a psychic.

I'm not a practicing psychic, so I can't speak to how people receive those, that intuitive information.

There are psychic mediums, there are channelers, there are people who can sort of

have prophetic dreams, you know, there's so many different different ways to interact with that

extra sensory information, right?

And to receive that and to translate it.

Where astrologers and psychics overlap is that we're translators.

We translate information.

But I would say that any storyteller is a translator, right?

Any person who's crafting a narrative, who's helping someone understand themselves through their system, is somehow an interpreter, somehow a translator, someone who is using information, whether it is downloaded from the heavens or it is in a birth chart, you know, and using that data.

So for my interpretations, I use a date, time, and location of birth, which means I calculate a birth chart.

And then based on that birth chart, I receive, I can see everything I need to know about who someone is at different points in their life.

And the birth chart, you know, is going to meet you where you are as well in your process.

So if you are really interested in what's going on with you romantically, like we can use the birth chart to sort of have that conversation.

Can we use my kid, for example?

I know his birthday.

I've got two kids, but my first kid was born January 15th and he's 12 years old.

So that's obviously 2013.

And he was born around 8, 10 in the morning.

Okay, I'll pull that up, right?

Okay.

Have you done your children's chart?

No, I have not.

And by the way, now I see how my mom can get stuck because I don't remember my daughter what time she was born.

And what's, what was your son's name?

Dylan.

Okay.

And you said January 15.

In 2013, you said?

2015, yeah.

15.

Yeah.

And what am I talking about?

2013.

He's 12.

What am I talking about?

I was getting them confused.

So they're both my favorite.

And that, there you go.

2013.

In California?

Yes.

In Los Angeles?

Cedar Sinai.

Okay.

And what time?

Can I give you between 8 and 10?

No, it has to be 10 minutes.

10.

8.

Okay.

Are you sure?

I am

almost positive.

Like maybe 8.12.

All right.

Because it has to be to the minute if you want it to be as accurate as possible.

What time is it right now?

1.12.

Okay.

Hold on a minute.

This has to be accurate.

I believe that, hold on.

What time is it right now in Monaco, Morocco?

God, it's these little details that get me every time.

I'm going to call.

Oh, perfect.

Oh, thank God he's going to answer.

Noah?

Okay,

you're on speaker on a podcast.

This is very important information.

Number one, what time exactly was Dylan born?

Dylan.

Oh my God, we're terrible parents.

They're just not astrologers.

Dylan was born at, I think it was like 10, 15 a.m.

on,

I think it was Tuesday, January 15th.

No, 2013.

What are you talking about?

He's 12.

He was born 2013, first of all, and he was born at 8.

No, you said 2015.

Did he not say 2015?

I think.

Oh, it's time it was 2013.

Okay, not 10:15.

I said 8:10.

I think it was a little bit later than 8:10.

Maybe 10:15.

Okay, how do we find this out?

This, how do we find that out?

And what's Sydney's?

What is Sydney's time of birth?

It's very important.

Uh, Sydney was in the afternoon.

It was

early evening.

Oh my God.

I remember being there.

I remember

exactly.

So Dylan was 10.15 or 8.10.

You have no idea?

No, I know it's in the morning.

And

Sydney was in the early evening because we had already checked in.

Okay, okay.

We don't need to.

Okay, 10.15 for Dylan then.

Are you sure it wasn't 8.10?

I'm giving him a chance for the epidural.

Thank you.

So you don't remember if it was 8.10 or 10.15, or you think it's 10.15?

No, I right now at this moment, I don't recall.

Okay, thank you.

Goodbye.

When were you born?

Do you know your time?

No, I don't remember anymore.

I think it's like.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

I got to go.

This is, we're on a podcast.

I got to go.

Bye.

So basically, do most people remember the time of you know, I think that people often have to seek the information.

10.15.

Let's go to 10.15.

I'm not going to do it.

Really?

No.

Why?

Because it's, we don't have an accurate time.

We don't know.

Both of you have different times.

Two hours apart is a huge difference in astrology.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think that it would be, I don't want to share things with you that would be

that wouldn't be that you're going to pull it up and it would be something else.

You know what I mean?

I don't want you to, I had the misfortune of thinking I was born at 5.28 a.m., but I was actually born at 5.28 p.m.

And I'm an astrologer.

And when I first got my chart, there were certain things in it that I was like, okay, yeah, I could see that.

It doesn't really totally hit.

And then maybe six months into my practice, I found out the real time, put it in, and I was like, oh my God, this is so real.

This makes so much more sense.

So I don't want you to have that experience of being like, yeah, I guess I can like fit that in and make it work, but it's not really what.

Yes.

My reputation is on the line.

Oh, yes.

I understand.

Wow.

That's so interesting.

Yeah.

So most people, though, I would imagine won't remember and they'll give you some bogus number unless they go and search it.

Yes.

I mean, I, as you can see, I try to be very thorough in making sure that the time is as accurate as possible.

Yes.

But, you know, with clients, I've had sessions with them where I've said, I don't think your time is right.

Like, if this is not hitting for you, the time isn't right.

And then they went and got their birth certificate and it wasn't right.

Really?

Yeah.

Because it's, it sometimes, you know, there's a moment where you're seeing yourself, you're hearing about yourself from the perspective of another person.

And that can feel a little jarring.

And it could feel a little like, am I like that?

But if it feels like,

that doesn't describe me, then something is amiss.

That's how much I believe in this work, you know?

Yeah.

Like astrology, it hits when it's accurate.

And you should feel like you're being seen.

You should feel like you are are being understood for the first time.

Okay.

Well, that's a great segue into my next question, right?

So then when you see all of these clips on Instagram and everywhere else, it says the top three signs that will make the most money, the top three signs that are emotionally resilient or whatever they are, you know, and they go number three or the cheapest three signs.

How accurate are those?

I, you know,

that's not really the way to work with astrology.

That's not the best way to engage with it.

But I also recognize that it's a great gateway.

You know, it's, I think a lot of us get started in our intrigue in astrology through some really sort of like surface level compatibility or like

some generic horoscope and yes, or like a description.

It's like it is fun and it should be fun.

Astrology is fun, like period, you know?

And then that becomes sort of a, that it plants a seed for curiosity and it invites us to keep going.

You know, when you study this and you really get so embedded and to me, I'm very spiritual.

You know, my spirituality is a big part of my practice.

You realize that we are all sort of pieces of the same disco ball, you know, we're all little mirrors of the same swirling orb that just have light reflected on them at different moments.

We're all the same.

right?

All signs are here to live and experience life just through their particular archetype.

So there's no signs that are, you know, better or worse than others.

That would be like saying people are better or worse than each other.

And that's just not true.

That's not the way life is.

But let's go with the compatibility, because I think that one people are really always so interested in.

I am.

Could you use,

and I understand not having the birth date and all that, is there like truth to, let's say, the best compatible,

like who is the most compatible with a Virgo?

Is there who's the most compatible with the Capricorn?

So, there's a very easy system for thinking about compatibility.

Of course, you're going to look at the whole birth chart.

There's different techniques that you use to assess compatibility.

I always also say that it's not if you're compatible, it's how you are compatible.

But typically, what the system is, is that earth signs work with other earth signs and also water signs.

Fire signs work with other fire signs and air signs.

So, each sort of, you know, fire and air go together and earth and water go together.

So I'm a,

Virgo is what?

Earth.

Earth.

What are other earth signs?

Taurus and Capricorn.

Yeah.

And then the water signs are Cancer, Scorpio, and Pisces.

So those are who would be good for Virgo.

Yes, just based on your sun sign.

But what I also saw in your chart is that you're an Aquarius moon.

So you're a Virgo sun, Aquarius moon.

So your moon sign, which is how you feel emotionally, is in an air sign.

So it's very intellectual.

It's very, it needs information.

It's very sort of, you know, it's thinking very, it's very forward thinking.

It's trying to think about like how to, I mean, podcasting is so great for Aquarians because we're thinking about the community.

We're thinking about how can we make a difference in the world.

So on one hand, you have this Virgo sun, which is an earth sign.

It's very practical.

It's very logical.

It's very very systematic.

And then internally, what actually fuels you is community, conversations, pushing back on things, challenging things, like thinking about how you can make the world a better place through the conversations and the dialogues that you're having.

So then who goes with, so then who would I be compatible with?

Basically, well, we would need to arrive in sign.

Your Venus is also in a fire sign.

right?

Your Venus is in Leo.

Your Mercury is in Libra.

So there's even though you have an Earth sign and your Mars is in Gemini.

So even though you have a Virgo sun sign, there's a lot of fire and air in your chart.

So I, you know, depending on what your rising sign is, like a fire, air sign probably feels really good for you.

Which one, what would be a fire air sign?

It's the other half of the zodiac.

So it would be Aries is a fire sign.

Gemini is a fire sign or Gemini is an air sign rather.

Leo is a fire sign.

Libra is a air sign.

Sagittarius is a fire sign.

Aquarius is an air sign.

So it's like the other half of the zodiac.

It's the other six signs.

Wow.

What are you?

I'm a Leo, but I'm a Capricorn rising and I'm a Pisces moon.

So these are all very, very different energies.

And I tap into each of them in a different way in my life.

Wow.

It's very complicated.

It's very complicated.

How long did it take you to become an astrologist?

Well, I started studying astrology in 2013 and I actually was just in a conversation with someone this morning about this.

It was at the end of 2017 that I got laid off from my last normal person job.

What was your normal person job?

Well, it was a lot of horrible job because I was not meant to be doing anything else other than this.

Really?

So what were you doing before?

Well, I went to school for art and art history.

So when I graduated college, I went into the art world.

And,

you know, it was hard to find my footing there, but eventually I did.

Eventually I got a job that working as a gallerist.

I was traveling the world with them.

And I was so dissatisfied.

It was crazy.

You know, it was there.

I just felt like something was very wrong.

I was very fragmented because why was I living the life that I thought I wanted to live and felt so unfulfilled?

And it was in that sort of question through that pursuit that I found astrology for myself.

And I just went so deep in so fast.

And, you know, there's, there's lots of other things that happened.

A friend of mine was also sort of on a spiritual astrology journey.

We ended up starting an astrology dating app together, which we ran from 2014 through 2016.

In that pursuit, I started working with astrology mentors to learn astrology so that I could do this app.

So I found my teachers, Annabelle Gatt and Ann Ortley, and they became my guides through this process.

But I was still afraid to be an astrologer because I was afraid I was pigeonholing myself.

I was afraid of the stigma around it.

I was afraid of not being taken seriously, of not being respected.

I was afraid of people judging me.

I was afraid of men saying shitty things to me because I was also like dating at this time.

And men are horrible about astrology, broadly speaking.

Well, they don't, they, most men don't take it very seriously, right?

They

love it.

They love to mansplain it.

Yeah.

Like it's their favorite thing.

Well, it's more of a girl.

I have to say it's more of a girl thing.

But that to me is fascinating.

Yeah.

You know, why?

I think that it is because it's an emotional language.

And I think it's a language that really demands a level of self-reflection that unfortunately a lot of boys and young men are not exposed to when they're kids.

And because of that, it becomes a threatening language for them.

Because why do they care?

So like, I don't care what other people's like belief systems are I know I think this is what I think I think that men find it like fun and you know kind of quirky and interesting they want to like hear what you have to say but I don't think they take it as deep and as seriously as most women do this is of course a broad general thing but that's what I would say I would say that it's it's worse than that you think so yes I would as someone who does this and has to deal with it well most of your clients are they mostly women yes yes because i will tell you something quite interesting i have a friend who um is kind of very like i hate to say the i i don't know what the word is but his memory is like i've never seen anything like it kind of reminds me of like you know that rain man when he dropped all those things on the floor and he can rememberize all of those this is how my friend is and he created this very wacky system where and he's obsessed like obsessed over it like he cannot go anywhere and not ask someone their birthday or talk about it but he created this whole system where he'll say what's your birthday all i need to know is the day like you're like november 14th right and he'll tell you and then what happens is like and he'll say to the other person what's your birthday and they'll say january 10th and he'll say

okay you are and he uses like the cards like it's called crown line and he uses the cards to tell if you are compatible with this person romantically on business whatever and he uses all these crazy little little like things that go in his brain.

And he'll be like, okay, so your birthday is November 14th.

That's the same birthday as Mick Jagger.

And this person and this person, this person, you got, you have this trait, that trait, that trait, that trait.

Your friend who you're with is card as a jack of hearts and a king of clubs.

Doesn't it's not compatible because they're even numbers, your odd numbers, your

whatever it is.

And he will create this whole situation where almost, almost, almost all the time, he's been pretty accurate.

Cause I thought he was a nut job when he came up to me.

That's how I met him.

I was at a dinner at some restaurant with my family.

And he came up to me.

He's like, you have a really nice family.

What's your birthday?

What's your husband's birthday?

What's this birthday?

And I, I, and then, like, I thought he was nuts.

And then I became quite good friends with the guy.

And I said a lot of my friends took to him.

And he was pretty spot on romantically with work.

Like, I will now text him and be like,

I don't know, like January 1st, you know, he'll be like, terrible, business, terrible for, you know, business, could be a good romantic partner, or like something like that, you know, like he'll break it down.

And so now, like, companies, like VC companies, other companies are hiring him.

So when they're doing, when they like are using him on a retainer to say, okay, we're going to hire Joe Blow.

This is his thing.

Is he going to be a good fit?

Is he not going to be a good fit?

And they're like using him as like a, or like this company that we're going to acquire.

The CEO was this or whatever.

And like they're making like legit business decisions based on like birthdays.

Very cool for your friend.

I don't think a woman would ever be able to get away with that.

So that's why I'm bringing this up.

He's a guy, by the way.

I know.

I don't think that a woman would ever be able to get away with that.

So I wonder if it's because he's categorized it in a way.

that's not under the astrology, you know, window and he put a different spin on it, which which made it much more palpable for like a man to understand.

Is that possible?

Yeah.

And he's a man.

And on top of that, yes, he is a man.

Yeah.

But I will tell you, a lot of guys who,

I will tell you, most of my friends who like him are all women.

Like my guys I know will like, you know, they'll like listen and they'll like kind of like chuckle, but they don't take him seriously like my female friends.

My female friends now call him all the time and like want to be involved.

But these private equity people are using him.

Like not a lot, but like, you know, there's a few of them.

Well, there is a quote that people love on the internet, which is from JP Morgan, which is that millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do.

And people,

people really like this quote.

And even though, obviously, you know, in this time of 2025, I think we have more than enough billionaires.

Like,

I understand why it's an attractive concept because it's true.

Like, it is true.

You know, it's true that you, that working with, and I can't speak to your friend's system, but working with astrology is an incredible enhancement to your life.

It optimizes your life, period.

Well, what I also think of it is it's another tool in your toolbox, right?

Like,

I love the more information that can potentially like give me, give me information to be more successful or better or more aligned.

Why not?

Like, I don't see the, there's no harm in it, right?

Totally.

But like, do people get too stuck on it?

do you ever see that like that becomes like their only source yes but I don't think that's an astrology issue I think that that's the way that that it's that's how that person is interacting with anything you know when somebody is obsessively like pulling tarot cards around a guy or if they keep you know checking their email when they're waiting for you know something to come through, like that's more of their own anxiety and their own patterning around how they're processing their world, you know, than it is about astrology itself.

Because astrology is, astrology is very fluid and it really meets you where you are.

So if we are becoming obsessive about,

well, I guess two things.

If we're becoming obsessive about checking our chart and being like, what's going to happen?

What's going to happen?

What's going to happen?

Like, maybe it's good to actually take a step back.

Maybe you're not in a good space to work with astrology because that's you just projecting anxiety onto the system.

But on the other hand, you know, as another another issue, if people double down on their shitty behavior because of astrology, if they're like, well, I'm a Scorpio.

Welp, I'm a badge.

That's just how I am.

Like, also a bad use of astrology, right?

Astrology is here to help us become the best version of ourselves.

Astrology is here to help us get to know ourselves.

Okay, I have a question for you because I don't know my birthday, but you know your, you don't know your, I know my birthday.

I don't know the time I was born.

That's what I meant, but you know the time you were born.

Let's just use you as an example, okay?

Are you married?

Cause you're wearing a ring.

I am married, yes.

Okay, so how long have you been married?

I've been married since 2022, but I've been with my partner for eight years.

Okay, so when you met your partner,

did it make sense based on his chart and your chart?

Yes.

It did?

Yes.

Yes.

Oh my God.

I love Luke so much.

So Luke, we met on Tinder.

And he was, and for anyone who's listening who's like, yeah, Tinder was different then.

Like, no, Tinder was disgusting then.

Tinder was the hookup app then, just as it is now.

Like nobody, it was like disgusting for me to be on Tinder and it was disgusting for Luke to be on Tinder.

But I found, you know, I saw his profile and I was like, he's either never been on a dating app before because this is so bare bones or he's a serial killer.

And like, I am going to have to take this risk.

Right.

Right.

But quickly found out that he was not or, you know, prayed that he was not a serial killer.

I knew he wasn't a serial killer because he was really curious about astrology.

And I mean, I guess he could have been the zodiac killer killer now that I think about it.

But for me, at that moment, it was very disarming because he was one of the first, if not the first man that I had ever started to chat with who did not think that it was a joke and who actually sort of was curious and intrigued by it rather than just, you know, exoticizing it or using it as some sort of like way of making,

you know, demeaning me through it in some way, shape or form.

Yeah, like, I'm like, this is a silly, like, silly.

Yeah.

Silly, silly girl.

Yeah.

How cute.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And

so, you know, I got his, he was really interested.

He was like, oh, I'm, I think I'm a, I'm an Aries sun.

I'm a Virgo moon.

I'm a Capricorn rising, I think.

Does that make us compatible?

It does.

And I was like, yeah, it does make us compatible.

But I still was like, there's no way that he's actually serious and interested in like having a full-blown.

conversation about this beyond that.

And on our first date, he was.

He wanted to understand it.

He was interested.

He wanted to understand why I liked it and how it worked and what the system was and how I worked with it and what it meant for us.

So then our next date, I came back with like our full charts, which are

so electric.

I mean, the amount of compatibilities and synchronicities we have in our chart.

And I remember going in being like, if this isn't my husband, like, I don't know if this shit works

because our charts are so fucking compatible that like it, it has to be.

It has to be.

But it's also our second date and I'm coming in and you're like, this is a lot of pressure on these charts on this moment.

And he thought it was so interesting and so cool.

And he was fascinated by.

What does he do for a job?

He's a musician.

Okay.

So he's in the arts also.

He's a creative as well.

Okay.

Have you seen, based on your numbers and your birth date, not numbers, based on the time of birth and all that?

Like when you have a question about your life, like, oh, is my career going to go a certain way?

Am I going to be, am I going to be making money?

Am I going to be making a lot of money?

And when you look at your numbers, has it been accurate?

Yes.

It has.

Yeah.

So like, including the stuff that I don't want to be accurate.

I was going to say, so like, because it's you doing it, right?

Like,

that was my question.

Like, how often does that happen when you're like, oh shit, this doesn't look really great for what I want to have happen?

I mean,

you know, we all go, what I love about astrology is that it's cyclical, right?

We go through these cycles and we go through these phases and astrology reminds us that nothing lasts forever, which is good and bad, right?

Sometimes we want things to last forever, but they don't.

And sometimes we're like, let me get out of this situation and we have an out, right?

Yeah.

So for example, last year, so I have a daughter.

She's 18 months old.

So I'm a new mom.

And congratulations.

Thank you.

And that's so cute.

Yes, it is so cute.

And yet, you know what time she was born.

I do.

Yes.

But obviously, that was the mission of everyone in the room at the moment of delivery.

So I have lots of documentation of it, pictures of the clocks, everything.

Perfect.

Yeah.

But I last year when we started introducing solids to her, she started to have some like reactions to them.

She was having some allergy stuff happen.

And that was a fear of mine.

You know, it was, I don't know why this was a fear of mine, but it was, you know, it was something that I was really scared of navigating allergies with a baby.

And lo and behold, she has, she's having F-pies, which is like a vomiting reaction to food.

She's having hives to peanuts, like these things are happening.

And lo and behold, in my chart, Saturn, which is the planet of maturity, is on my moon sign, which is about motherhood.

And it's, I see very clearly that this transit is taking place in my chart, which is me having to figure out motherhood, you know, me stepping into that role for me, me having to sort of, and Saturn does a lot of hard lessons, right?

It's a tough love planet.

So it was this sort of like push to really have to be brave and courageous in this particular area of life.

And I knew that I, at the other side of this transit, when this was over, it was either going to be resolved or it was somehow going to be easier for me.

So I use that as sort of my guide and my anchor in this difficult time in our little family unit of figuring out what these allergies were going to be like, to know that how I felt in that moment was not going to last forever.

And I was going to reach the other side of it and feel better.

And both kind of are true.

You know, her allergies are managed right now.

And they're not necessarily as bad as I thought they were going to be.

And I also feel more equipped to deal with them.

You know, I have an EpiPen.

So like I'm, I feel more like I have the tools.

Yeah.

And Saturn is all about providing you with the tools.

So that was something that I was experiencing in real time as I was sort of navigating this very real life, very embodied, very relatable experience of being a mom and also being an astrologer, working with the system and sort of guiding myself through it.

That makes sense.

That's good, though.

It's good to have that, like, to have that experience, that knowledge and that background, right?

To get maybe hone in on information that you otherwise wouldn't even know, right?

Scorpio.

So how long did it take you to become like a full-on astrologist?

Well, you know, it was this, this journey, right?

This journey of working with the material, keeping it at arm's length, being afraid, sort of doing things that made me adjacent to it, being like, oh, I'm a founder of an app that's astrology, but I'm not an astrologer.

And you also, so it's interesting because you kind of like poo-poo men who are like, kind of, you silly girl and don't take it seriously, but you also had hang-ups about it too.

Well, I was a victim of those, of that.

Right.

But even so, like, even, because you, you didn't didn't want to, like, you felt

what you said earlier, like, you kind of felt that you'd be judged.

It sounded kind of wonky.

Because I am.

Yeah.

You know, yes.

I mean, yes.

Like, I am.

So it was, and I didn't know if I could handle it.

Yeah.

No, well, I totally understand.

So does that mean tarot cards aren't as accurate then, of course, as astrology?

Tarot cards are, are also accurate.

How?

But if they're just picking something randomly at a moment time.

It's a different system.

You know, it's, I think that, so tarot is a 78 card system.

Yeah.

And, you know, what I love about astrology is that the language for it is so complicated.

It's so nuanced.

So there's so much to pull from.

There's so many interpretations.

The permutations of what we can see in a chart are really like, I don't incalculable, you know.

Tarot is 78 cards.

So that's the sort of the language set is working with that, with that number.

But there's still infinite number of permutations because you're looking at the cards next to each other and together.

And it's another way of telling stories, right?

It's another way of being able to sort of use a tool to be able to glean insight and information and wisdom.

And whether you're channeling that wisdom from a higher power, from the universe, or from your higher self or your higher consciousness, or you're using it as a mirror to help you understand

what you need to know, it works.

It is, it is accurate.

I mean, I think that tarot is definitely, it's an easier system to learn.

So because of that, I think that there's a lot more trial and error in it.

But every system, you know, there's trial and error.

So I love tarot.

You like tarot?

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Okay, we have to talk about manifestation.

Love manifestation.

Okay, so this is like kind of like one of these things.

You might not like me very much after what I want to say.

That's not true.

Well, I don't know.

It may be very.

Hold on.

Yeah, let me buckle up.

Yeah, yeah, buckle up.

No, no, no.

I'm not a massive believer in manifestation.

I find it to be a little bit, you're going to hate this word, but kind of hokey pokey, wokey.

Like just kind of like,

I'm a big believer in.

action, you know, your hard work and action.

That's my entire, like, that's my whole philosophy in life.

That's how I've gotten anything in life.

If I, I don't sit there and just hope something to happen and put a vision board up.

Like, I think if you want something, you got to like work for it and you have to like go out there and, you know, do the things, to do the hard things over and over again.

So when you say manifestation and the idea of just like hoping or thinking, what is you, what else do you think?

Like, what's your whole, what is your philosophy on manifestation?

Oh, well, it's not hoping and thinking.

I mean, I am in complete agreement with you.

Okay.

And for any of your listeners who know about astrology, like they know I'm a Capricorn Rising.

So like that speaks for itself.

Like I am.

Why, what does that mean?

I'm very serious.

Okay.

I'm very serious.

I'm like, I work extremely hard.

Yeah.

And I, you know, like I tell you, don't seem like the, even the way you speak, it doesn't seem like you're just like this woo-woo type of.

Yeah.

No, I mean, I, inside, I am.

Right.

But my perspective on reality, I mean, everything that has I've been able to create in my life, I've worked really, really hard to create.

Right.

You know, really intentionally, lots of struggle, lots of effort.

You know, I, I'm definitely someone who, you know, had a lot of responsibilities way too young in my family.

And that made me someone who's like very intense, you know, about really putting the work in.

And I believe in putting the work in.

I don't think that anything happens when you're just like passively hoping things are going to change.

You know, you have to make the steps to change them.

But manifestation is, is the intentionality around your action.

And manifestation is being, is sort of creating these, well, I describe manifestation as this feedback loop between what I call the astral realm, which is the realm of hopes and wishes and dreams.

And then also the physical world, which is where we do things to make things happen.

And I believe that when you work with both of these realms, the realm of hoping and wishing and believing and visualizing and creating and sort of setting yourself up for success through your imagination, through your mind's eye, and then you also are moving forward and you're actually working towards a goal in the physical realm, that is when things really, really happen.

I also believe that you need to know what you want in order to make things happen.

And that is the work of my work, you know, know, knowing who you are, knowing what you care about, knowing what actually drives you forward is a critical piece of making things happen because we live in a culture that has very specific standards of success, you know, money or cars or now fame and, you know, like recognition, right?

And it's easy to sort of like just think that you might want those things and to chase those things because you think that that is what your soul's work is supposed.

Well, I don't think anyone would be thinking that, but if you're thinking that that's what's going to make you happy, let's say that.

But that's not what's going to make, you know, that doesn't make everyone happy.

That's not fulfilling, right?

You have to know why you want the things that you want in order to actually be able to bring them into your life and find fulfillment from them.

So that is the work of manifestation in my practice.

Interesting.

Okay, so I can just like break this down.

So it's about envisioning, thinking, knowing what you want, and then taking steps to, to get that.

Knowing why you want it.

Why you want it.

Yeah.

Knowing why you want it.

And from an astrological point of view, that's going to where we can use the chart to understand why you want it.

You know, we can use the chart to figure out like why your soul is craving it, why your soul came into your body in this lifetime, in this particular experience that you're having and is saying, you know, these are the things that you need to do.

Right.

And then when they're, when you find that fusion between who you are and what you are bringing into your life, like that's when those green lights start, you know, and that's where things really start clicking and things are actually like flowing and you get into that state where you feel like you are in alignment.

All right.

So I'm going to ask you some like base, like some kind of like pop culture fun questions and you can without having the time of birth or whatever, but things like, what card is the money card the most?

Like what sign or rising, not rising are you noticing the people who make the most money?

Let's go with that and we'll go from there.

Okay.

Well, let's let me think of how I can answer this as accurately as possible.

Because all signs deserve to have abundance.

I would say that the signs that are most stereotypically associated with money are going to be Taurus and Capricorn.

Taurus is, they're both earth signs.

Taurus is the first earth sign of the zodiac.

It's very physical, right?

It wants what it wants and it wants to have the things that it wants.

And then Capricorn is like the hustler.

Capricorn is like the businessman, monopoly man.

Like,

yeah, yeah.

Like it's, you know, but also in the context of like our late stage capital world, you know, it's easy to sort of like typecast.

Capricorn as being, I mean, Jeff Bezos is a Capricorn, but it's easy to sort of like associate that.

Capricorn is also has a lot of spiritual depth to it.

But yeah, I mean, Capricorn is sort of thought of as like the entrepreneur.

I should ask you, Donald Trump, right?

Our president, do you know his chart?

Of course, like the back of my fucking hand.

Okay, so based on what you know, tell us,

does it fit him or does it suit him to a T that he is the way he is?

Yes, Donald Trump is a Gemini son.

He is a Leo rising and he is a Sagittarius moon.

He was also born on an eclipse, on a lunar eclipse.

So, yeah, I mean, Donald Trump is definitely the perfect manifestation of his birth chart.

He is truly, truly his birth chart, truly, truly his birth chart to a T.

That doesn't mean that every Gemini sun, Sagittarius moon, Leo rising is Donald Trump because a chart is nature and nurture.

But being born into the circumstances that he was born into and having the chart that he has, it's it's the most literal chart you can ask for.

It's crazy.

I mean, yeah, Geminis in general, you know, they love to throw spaghetti at the wall and it's an air sign known to be the twins.

So there's a duality around it, but there's also just sort of, you know, they love to say shit.

They love to just like stir the pot.

And that's kind of what.

riles them up.

Like they enjoy the process of kind of like saying things, nothing's too serious.

We'll see how it lands.

Like lighten up, have a sense of humor.

You know, that's the Gemini motto.

Sagittarius moon is the emotional world.

It's the opposite sign of Gemini.

So it's kind of the big philosopher, the big thinking about things.

And it's a storyteller.

So this is a chart that gets really electrified through stories, through ideas, through concepts.

And one of the reasons I think that he surrounds himself with these sort of like pseudo-philosophers is because he really is intrigued by that.

That really lights him up.

And then last but not least, we have a Leo Rising, right?

Leo is a fire sign that is known as it's the lion.

It's sort of zodiac royalty, right?

It is sort of, you know, it sees it's, it's ruled by the sun.

So it sees itself as the epicenter of the universe.

So a Leo Rising means that Donald Trump is the main character of his reality, like for life.

And apparently, all of ours too, because this guy is just won't go away.

So we're all, it's, we're, we're living in Donald Trump's Leo rising reality.

Reality.

Yeah.

So it's accurate, basically.

It's very accurate.

How about Elon Musk?

Elon's chart, I think that we don't have like the most accurate time of birth.

I've been given a few different times,

but he's a cancer son and he does have a lot of Gemini in his chart as well.

So the cancer son in his chart definitely is like a really great, I mean, that's like a very stereotypical chart of someone who loves to procreate.

You got that one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The octo mom, also a cancer son.

Really?

Yeah.

So who else is a cancer son?

A lot of people who don't have kids also.

You know, there's a lot of people who are not making like billions of children who are cancer sons, but that is, you know, cancer is associated with like motherhood and children.

So it is kind of like a funny,

a funny astrologer bit for Elon that he is a cancer who loves babies.

Wow.

Kind of.

I mean, I don't know if he loves babies.

By the way, found out my kid's birthday is around, it's 10:15.

Do you want to do it now?

Sure.

Okay.

So it's 10.15.

Not like.

You know it for a fact.

Listen, as much as I'm going to know right now.

So.

So 10.15 a.m.?

10.15 a.m.

And it's Capricorn 2013.

Yeah.

So this very much changes the chart.

January.

I have January 15, 2013 at 10.15 a.m.

Okay.

So Dylan is a Capricorn son,

an Aries rising.

If this is an accurate time, but it's right on an edge.

He's a one degree Aries son.

So if he was born a little bit earlier, it's going to change really like a minute earlier?

Yeah.

In this case, if it was four minutes earlier.

Yeah.

So let's table that rising, but I can tell you that he is a Pisces moon.

This, based on this, I can tell you that he has a lot of sensitivity in his life, in his, in his personhood.

And even though he's a Capricorn Rising, he also has his Mercury conjunct, his son.

You know, it's, we actually have similar charts potentially, but, you know, it's important for him to be taken seriously.

It's important for him to be, you know, heard and respected and recognized and have his opinions like valued and validated.

But there is an inner world in your son that is very spiritual and very sensitive and really very curious, I would imagine, about like grandparents and ancestors and like where he comes from.

And part of that is also trying to figure out like, what is this sensitivity that I have?

And this is very sensitive.

Yeah.

This gentleness within him.

He's a very kind boy.

Yeah.

He does bullying, like that like really deeply disturbs him and upsets him.

It's something that is like, you know, he feels on a really deep level.

Wow.

That's pretty accurate, actually.

Even if it could be more accurate if we know

yeah, yeah.

So based on my birthday, I want to, cause

how not like, are we compatible?

Not like rheumatically.

How arguably,

exactly.

Yeah.

So

yeah, I mean, actually, there's something interesting with your charts, which is, as I mentioned, you're an Aquarius moon.

His Mars is an Aquarius in his chart.

You guys both are, have like an activist piece of you.

And there is a part of you that feels like, you know, part, the part of you that wants to make the world a a better place, like that also speaks to him as well.

And it does, yes, I don't see it yet.

Well, he's a kid, he's 12, yes, he is.

But I sensitivity, I mean, he's a very liked kid, like everyone loves loves him because he's very, he feels other people, it's very empathetic, is the word I was looking for.

Yes, and how are you describing an activist?

What are you, what is your concept of that?

Like, basically, wants to change the world for good or wants to like speak out when people are being bullied.

Yeah.

Is that kind of yeah, or like or give information, like kind of like be like a voice of, you know, I don't know how the way I look for it as an activist, someone who goes out there and like protests about something.

Not necessarily that.

You know, you don't need to be like on the front line.

The picket with the picket.

You don't need, yes.

That's not, that's not the way I'm thinking of an activist.

Okay.

I'm thinking of an activist as someone who wants to do the right thing.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's him for sure.

Yeah.

Okay.

I like that.

I wish I knew my daughter.

This is so embarrassing.

Well, what, do you know what, when's her birthday?

Her birthday is March 23rd.

Uh, Jan.

So she's in Aries.

Yep, 2015.

Cool.

Yeah.

We could dabble.

I think her birth, and she was born around 536.

Okay.

I'm not going to put anything in.

What's her name?

Sydney.

And also California.

Also, LA.

Yeah, LA.

Yeah.

yeah.

Santa Monica.

And you said March 23rd.

And she's the 2015, right?

Yes.

So I'm not going to put in a birth time, but we can see, okay, different than your son.

More Taurus in her chart.

She is a, she was actually born interestingly, not far after a solar eclipse, which is kind of cool.

But the main difference with her chart and your son's chart is that she sort of wants, like, she's nourished by her comforts.

You know, for her, it's like, what's my cozy, like, how do I get cozy?

How do I feel good?

Like, I don't want to deal with, I don't want to have to, I want to like turn my brain off and relax and not have to like think too much about these things in order to find her regulation.

Your son can really go into these like emotional spaces.

Your daughter is kind of, you know, your daughter is able to, well, she has a temper with the Aries son, of course.

But the way that she emotionally regulates is by being like, okay, I just need like my comfort food.

I want my TV that I like.

I want to just feel like I'm back.

I like want to recenter myself and ground myself with what brings me peace.

Are they a good, are they compatible?

Everyone is compatible.

Okay, I know.

I'm saying, do they, are they compatible based on your chart?

I, without knowing her rising sign, it's really tricky.

I'm, this is like a very rudimentary reading of it.

I know.

I'm going to get you the proper example.

Yes, because she could have her moon in like the most emotional area of her chart, in which case what I'm saying, it's like actually kind of like take it all with a grain of salt.

Totally.

But with a Taurus moon, I mean, she loves you.

She loves her mommy so much.

She does?

Yeah.

Could have pulled me.

I'm joking.

And she loves the stability.

She loves stability.

Really?

Yeah.

And Dylan doesn't?

Dylan can hang in like more nebulous.

Dylan can, you know, he's kind of, he can float.

This is so interesting.

Thank you, by the way, for even giving me that oh yes well what do you think i think i think you're spot on with dylan's sensitivity sydney also spot like there's a very few there's there's particular characteristics about sydney that you didn't say but that could be because you i'm not i can't i don't want to say too much why because i don't know her time i know she is like uh like a force of nature i don't know if you saw that in there well Being born by right next to a solar eclipse in Aries is definitely a force.

And she's like competitive and she's like a dancer.

And anyway, but that's why I want to get you accuracy because it feels not accurate.

I want to know the accuracy, right?

But no, but I actually, I appreciate all of it because I love all this stuff.

So like, even if it's not like completely spot on, that's my fault.

But it's my fault.

But I want to like

for the record.

Like, no, it's my fault.

I don't have the right information.

I know, but get it for you.

Yes, get it for me.

And then I'm going to recap on this.

Because with your daughter's chart, like for one, her being born by a solar eclipse in Aries is absolutely a big deal.

Like that's eclipses, as I mentioned, Donald Trump born by an eclipse, you know, like eclipses are these dramatic

experiences.

So when you're born near one or on one, it's like you have that, that sort of high highs and low lows are embedded into your DNA.

It's a big deal.

But because we don't know where it is in her chart, like I can't tell you if that shows up in her creativity or if it shows up in her.

Of course not.

Don't even have to explain yourself.

It's my fault.

I don't have the, you said to me, I'm not reading your chart, Jennifer, because I don't have the thing.

I totally get it.

Did your mom ever call back?

No, I keep on looking at my phone because she didn't, unfortunately.

But I'm going to call you and I'll let you.

Will you promise to do it for me?

I promise.

Okay.

Thank you for being on the podcast.

Thank you for having me.

You know what?

We didn't even do our magic mind shot.

I was so like, I was so like interested in starting.

I didn't even do it.

So normally we do these things where we do this.

We do this this shot right before we do our podcast because we want to keep our guests and me as focused and as alert as possible.

And there's like it's just all like this, it's like Ashwagandha, Lions Maine like very like, it's all like for your brain.

I love it, like the tropics.

And this one has no caffeine.

So, now this is, they just came out with this caffeine-free.

And I wanted to actually get your take it.

And then, what you can do is let me know for your next podcast how alert you are.

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

Okay.

Good.

Thank you.

Cause I'm not going to, I'm scared.

Oh, who is she?

Yeah.

Good.

Right.

Wow.

What a zing.

I told you.

It was amazing.

I wasn't just saying it.

By the way, I don't just like yap and promote stuff.

That's just, just kind of what it is.

It has like a cayenne quality without being cayenne.

I don't have my glasses on, or else I would tell you every ingredient.

But basically, I know there's ashwagandha in there.

I know that there's, I think there's, um, hold on, turmeric in there.

I know that.

Lion's mane.

This one has no cat.

It's tropical, floral.

It's very good.

Yeah, I could give you a few to take home.

I will.

I will take them.

They're delicious.

This is caffeine-free.

Take mine as well.

All right.

So the book is called It's All Magic, 365 Reflections on Astrology,

Terret or Tarot.

Tarot.

Tarot and Manifestation by Eliza Kelly.

Nope.

Eliza.

Oh, damn.

Eliza Kelly.

Also, follow her on Instagram.

What's your Instagram?

Eliza Kelly.

Yeah.

Okay.

Surprise.

You sound just just like a visa, but I guess I forgot.

See, if I would have taken that magic one, I would have had, like, I would have been way more sharp.

But thanks for being on the show.

I appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Bye.