Episode 499: Kim Perell: Building a $235M Company from the Kitchen Table + Why Perfectionism Kills Success

Speaker 1 Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle, Gresham.

Speaker 1 All right, you guys, today we have a very special guest, one that I've known about for many years, have been hearing a ton about, but never really met you until just now. Her name is Kim Perell.

Speaker 1 She is a nine-time serial entrepreneur, a true badass, and she wrote a new book. It's called Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire.
And there are so many amazing nuggets of wisdom throughout this book.

Speaker 1 So if you are somebody who is wanting to start a business, feels stuck, don't know where to begin, or afraid, this is the podcast to listen to. And thank you for being on the show.

Speaker 1 I'm so happy to be here. I've heard so many great things about you.
So being in the same room is amazing. It's really amazing to meet you.

Speaker 1 I swear, and I'm not just like saying that because you have to be polite, you know, when people come on your show, but like everything, I mean, you actually like walk the talk.

Speaker 1 A lot of times do people say a lot of things, but they don't don't have the, they don't really actually have the chops. You have the chops.

Speaker 1 So this book is a really, I think I also, I read it and I thought like, wow, this is actually really helpful and actionable for people who are in a situation where they're entrepreneurs or they're attempting to be entrepreneurs.

Speaker 1 So anyway, thank you for being on the show. We do this thing here on Happens and Hustle where we take a healthy shot because I'm healthy.
You know, where I try to be healthy.

Speaker 1 And these are their magic minds. We shake it and we cheers and it keeps you super focused and sharp.
Not like you need to be focused or sharp. I love anything to make me smarter.
I'm in. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, I think you're plenty smart. But here you go.
Let's go. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I should be careful again. I always start this.
I've taken like three today. I should not do so many.

Speaker 1 When am I going to feel it? Right now. No, no, no, no.
You're going to feel it.

Speaker 1 And like, listen, you tell me, actually, tell me after the podcast how you feel because you won't really know until after.

Speaker 1 Okay, like you'll start and like tell me if you feel more focused, have like more energy, sharper. You'll let me know as you know, when we're done.
Yeah, we'll see. I'll let you know.

Speaker 1 Okay, yeah, let me know how you feel after how many ever shots you've had. I've taken too many, and then I, if I, I'm doing a lot of podcasts today, so probably I should be very careful.

Speaker 1 I think it's like the, they told me, like, they actually said to me, you got to be careful. Like, you can't take like five.
I'm like, okay, fine. I'll just take like two or three.

Speaker 1 But anyway, let's start. I have so many questions for you.
Great. Let's kick it off.
All right. So the book is called Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire.

Speaker 1 What is the number one mistake that you think you made that made you a millionaire? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 Well, I've made so many, but I think the number one mistake that I made and I think everyone else makes is waiting to feel 100% ready to start.

Speaker 1 And I overthink things and I get lost in analysis, paralysis, and I'm a perfectionist.

Speaker 1 I have so many tendencies to want to make sure everything's perfect before I take it to market, before I get it out there, to start a company, to do anything. And that waiting kills success.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 early on, when I started my first company, I heard this amazing advice from a Marine Corps general. And he said, in the Marines, they give the 70% solution, which is if you're 70%

Speaker 1 ready and you have enough information, 70% of the information to take action, you should do it. And I thought, well, if the Marines are doing this, I can do this too, right? I'm young.
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 So great. 70%,

Speaker 1 let's go. And honestly, I use that really early on.

Speaker 1 I still use it today because else I will get stuck in just perfecting things, perfecting my pitch, perfecting my marketing deck, perfecting social media.

Speaker 1 It's just like put it out there and then iterate along the way. Because until it hits the market, you have no idea.
And it's never going to be ready anyway. I, no, I agree with you.

Speaker 1 The only question I have with that, because I have heard you mention that before, the 70% rule, right? Like if you're 70% ready, then that's enough to start.

Speaker 1 But how do you quantify if you're 70% ready, 50% ready? Like, how do you know? How does somebody know, right? Because like you said, people are scared. There's hesitation.
They're not sure.

Speaker 1 So what is like a wave someone knows? I think it's when you start perfecting the edges, right? When you start just looking at the small things.

Speaker 1 Now you're just making excuses while you're too scared to put it out there, whether it be your website or anything that you're doing. Honestly, you can use this personally or professionally.

Speaker 1 Like I have four kids. I was never ready.
Like ever. So at least if I'm 70% ready, you just got to, you know, make the jump.
I think people are never, ever 100% ready anyway.

Speaker 1 And we fool ourselves to think that we'll ever be that place. Like, you're right.
Like, I've got two kids.

Speaker 1 I never in a million years thought I would ever be ready to be a mom, but it's analysis, paralysis. The more you think about it, it keeps you stuck and you never propel.
Right.

Speaker 1 And like, even if you make a mistake, like I, I, you say, I think was it here or somewhere else I heard the idea of you don't have to innovate. You can iterate.
Like you just said,

Speaker 1 like the iteration is where the money's at, right? Like you're not going to have to reinvent the wheel to be successful. And you shouldn't.
And you shouldn't. It's a waste of time.

Speaker 1 It's a waste of time. And I think focusing on progress over perfection, just remind yourself, just a little bit farther every single day.

Speaker 1 And you're not going to, you know, dream really big, start really small. What can you do right now to push your dreams forward?

Speaker 1 Like, even think about like your new, like the project you do with Jay Shanny. This, it's called June or Junior.
Junior Juni. Like, I think that in the bed, like food and beverage, right?

Speaker 1 Let's just talk about food and bread, like just like energy drinks or all the things, right? Like at what point, like Poppy is a great example that sold for 1.2 billion.

Speaker 1 Like I was like, oh my God, who needs another one of these, you know, beverages, right?

Speaker 1 And then boom, another one just like crushes, right like it's i think that there's there's room for so much and finding your audience and figuring out what your niche to iterate is what is important you're not gonna like there's a million drinks out there right like but that doesn't mean that your particular product can't fit in the noise There's so many drinks, but even take a look at Poppy.

Speaker 1 They've done an amazing job of having a modern soda. And I think with us, we have exactly what is the modern version of tea?

Speaker 1 You know, it's something fun and flavorful and sparkling and it's packed with adaptogens. So you don't have to innovate.
You just have to do it better than the last person.

Speaker 1 And also, like, yeah, like, I look at poppy as a great case study because that's just one of, like, before that, there was something called

Speaker 1 Buy Five. Do you remember them? Or Buy Six or Buy? Maybe it's not Buy Five.

Speaker 1 It's spelled B A I.

Speaker 1 And they sold it for 5 billion or Celsius that's worth like 10 billion. I can go on and on.
Okay.

Speaker 1 The truth of the matter is, like, and this is what I wanted to ask you because it really is about the branding and the storytelling behind the brand, right?

Speaker 1 If you can tell a really good story, your brand has legs. Yes.
Right? The supplement company, like, just think about the world of wellness and supplements. There's a bazillion supplements.

Speaker 1 And then, like, all these new ones come out. And I'm like, how the hell is that one like worth $2 billion?

Speaker 1 So, I guess my question to you is: do you know what makes something a good story? Or how do you teach somebody how to tell a story or market or brand well so they even have a leg up?

Speaker 1 For me, and I invest a lot of companies. I've invested about 150 companies.
And I think it is about the story.

Speaker 1 It has to be something truly authentic to the person creating it, the founder creating it. I mean, that's what I'm investing in.

Speaker 1 I'm investing in founders, founders that are so passionate about something that they have to bring it to life. And that's exciting.

Speaker 1 And I think that's actually what what makes great entrepreneurs because it comes from their own personal story.

Speaker 1 And so it's really important to start with the story and to make sure that it's truly authentic to you because it's going to get hard.

Speaker 1 And I talk about it, it's going to, you're going to make a thousand mistakes, you're going to want to quit. And it's only that passion that will push you through when everyone else wants to give up.

Speaker 1 So it has to be something that's deeply rooted in something that you really love.

Speaker 1 What would be the first step that you would tell an entrepreneur that is the best step to take forward to move whatever they're doing forward?

Speaker 1 Well, first you have to decide, is this a hobby or is this a commercially viable product? So I would say it's getting to a minimum viable product and take it to market.

Speaker 1 And the market does not have to be going to the biggest supermarket. It could be going to your farmer's market and trying to sell it and seeing if anyone will buy it.

Speaker 1 Because if you don't have product market fit, you'll never be successful. And so many amazing individuals with amazing ideas, no one wants to buy them.
That's a great point.

Speaker 1 I think that that's not thought of enough because people think they got to go big or go home. Right.
And it's, you need to have market research to know if your product or your thing.

Speaker 1 people even want or care about right right and you know what's interesting the farmer's market thing is i mean in la i think i've i've seen a lot of products that started at the farmer's market have gone on isn't isn't poppy or ollipop one of these sure one of these that like it was so successful at the farmer's market.

Speaker 1 Oh, is it even maybe slate? I don't remember. There's a million brands that I'm involved with as well.
I can't remember, but they use the farmer's market as a great testing ground.

Speaker 1 Yes, you get feedback right there with customers. They can tell you about the taste.
They can tell you if

Speaker 1 they like the product, if they would buy the product, if the price point's too high, if the price point's too low, would they buy it for more? Would they buy it for less?

Speaker 1 There's so much information gathering you can get if you just collide your idea with the actual customer because the customer is going to dictate if your product's going to be successful right and then what about what do you think about following trends like right let's just talk about like currently right now everything is about protein if you're like someone in the between the ages of like 38 and 58 all you hear about are like weighted vests and protein protein and menopause and hormones i mean these are the things that you con you constantly see now if you think okay you know this is if this market's i'm just just giving you an example, right?

Speaker 1 Oh, this market is really popping right now, right? I should then put, make a product within maybe a protein product because it does well. Like everyone's putting protein in everything, in gummies, in

Speaker 1 brownies, and soda, and soda. Yeah, protein, soda, protein water.
I mean, you can go on and on. You can go upstairs and see the plethora of different companies sending me protein snacks and beverages.

Speaker 1 Now, do you think that's a good idea or a bad idea?

Speaker 1 Because if you're just just following a trend because you think you can make money at it versus something that you think, like you said, is authentic to what you want to do.

Speaker 1 What kind of advice would you do if you saw that? Or do you see that a lot? That people don't know.

Speaker 1 I mean, listen, ideas are a demo dozen. It's all about the execution.
And if you're passionate about protein, go all in. But if you're not, probably not the right business for you to start.

Speaker 1 It's great to

Speaker 1 look at trends and understand if there's an opportunity. But the reality is the hard work comes in actually creating the business.
And that is the challenging part.

Speaker 1 So if you're not truly passionate about protein, you definitely should not start a company for it.

Speaker 1 Because I know there's some, like, I think that's like a question I always hear or people always talk about is that, well, this is really hot right now. Should I get into this business?

Speaker 1 But if you don't like it, then you're not going to do well with it, right? Which then leads me to this, you said earlier, also like entrepreneurs.

Speaker 1 So is there one particular thing that you see or you've kind of shifted your, your opinion on what makes a successful entrepreneur?

Speaker 1 I think that passion beats skill.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 So early on I would have said you have to really have the skills in order to become an entrepreneur, but now, no, you just have to have the relentless hustle, the grit, the tenacity.

Speaker 1 It is so hard being an entrepreneur. And that honestly is why I wrote the book, because I wanted to share the struggles that I have.
So other people, they're going through the same challenges.

Speaker 1 And so if I can be transparent and vulnerable about the challenges that I've gone through on my journey, it gives permission for other people to fail forward, make mistakes, but also pivot and change business models and do something different.

Speaker 1 Because in today's age, the market is moving so quickly that if you don't adapt and you don't have flexibility, you will get left behind.

Speaker 1 I love that part in your book where you talk about pivoting, the power. I think the power of the pivot because that is something that's really hard for people, right? You get so stuck in your ways.

Speaker 1 And I think a lot of times the businesses that do the best is when they can pivot. Yeah.
So can you just talk more about pivoting, what happens?

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 I wrote a note here, even though I can't see that we that we I want I want to unpack this idea of pivoting because I think that people don't focus on that enough as a way to kind of like next level what you're doing.

Speaker 1 Well, think of the most successful companies we know. YouTube started as a dating site.
Twitter started as a podcast platform. Netflix started sending DVDs by mail.

Speaker 1 You know, Shopify started selling snowboards. All of these businesses had a vision and changed along the way.
And they pivoted based on market feedback, why it's so important to get to market.

Speaker 1 And I think if you're not willing willing to pivot and open to the idea that whatever your original idea may change, because it will change.

Speaker 1 99% of the companies I've invested in have pivoted at least once. If you're not pivoting,

Speaker 1 you're probably honestly, here's where you should know if you should pivot or persevere.

Speaker 1 Number one, you should pivot if your sales are declining, if for some reason you feel stuck in your current business, or if somehow the customers aren't renewing, right?

Speaker 1 So you're in, anyone that's listening thinking, I'm, my business is stuck or I'm not growing means you should probably pivot.

Speaker 1 And we talk about five different pivots in the book, which I want to, from my own experience, it could be a market pivot, it could be a product pivot, it could be a people pivot.

Speaker 1 Maybe you have the wrong team and maybe it's time to pivot and get a new one.

Speaker 1 Like these are challenges that most entrepreneurs face and they have to be okay with recognizing they are challenges and now I have to adapt to them.

Speaker 1 See, I think that that part of the book is so interesting to me because, just can you name the five pivots?

Speaker 1 I know you just said a few because I think they're all like, they're all its own entity that can really change the whole business model, the whole your entire life, really, right?

Speaker 1 Like if you stay stagnant, everything is a ripple effect. Right.
So you have the market pivot, the product pivot, the pricing pivot, the customer pivot. There's another.

Speaker 1 And the people pivot. That's the other five.
So the people pivot, I think it's very, very important, right?

Speaker 1 Because because people can be holding you back and you don't even know it or you have a b team a c team or you're just loyal to people that have gotten you to where you are and you don't know how to get to the next level well those people are holding you back and not because they're bad but because they don't know how to get to the next level either so unless you get better people that have actually been where you want to go you will not be successful you're holding yourself back because You don't want to make the hard calls.

Speaker 1 You don't want to make the changes that are necessary in order for your business to thrive. Yeah.
Did that happen to you? Yes. Oh my gosh.
I get it. I can speak from experience.
I,

Speaker 1 you know, your business, your team becomes the team that grew with you.

Speaker 1 And at some point, you need to get better people that have better experience on to the onto the deck because you actually don't have, I don't have the experience myself. I'm building a beverage brand.

Speaker 1 I have no experience building a beverage brand. Now, I consider myself a great beverage entrepreneur, but a couple years ago, I'm like, I have no idea.
I'm a tech entrepreneur, right?

Speaker 1 But I did surround myself with beverage executives that have been in the business for 20 plus years so I don't need to be the smartest I just have to be able to surround myself with the smartest people in order to be successful are you spending most of your time on this right now yes oh and having so much fun oh really oh yes because you had your first company when you were 23 or something right yes i had my first company i was 23 and i sold that by the time i was 30.

Speaker 1 what was it like an internet marketing company okay which what did it do it basically sold ad space on the internet oh okay you can go to yahoo and see an advertiser. That's you.
That's me. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 And you did it at 23. Yes, at 23, when the internet,

Speaker 1 you know, to be honest, it was very early 2000s when all of the dot-coms were going bankrupt. And I asked my grandma for a $10,000 loan because I wanted to start an internet company.

Speaker 1 And she's like, what's the internet? And

Speaker 1 yes. And so, but that was the catalyst that started.
Honestly, I didn't feel ready. Everyone told me I was crazy.
Everyone told me to get a real job. You have no experience.

Speaker 1 You've never run a company. And like, you can't do this.
And you know what? I did it anyway. And that was the pivotal point that changed my life.
You pivoted. I pivoted.

Speaker 1 I said, you know, but I think it's also the confidence in yourself has to be greater than anyone else's doubt in you. And people are going to doubt you.

Speaker 1 There's the naysayers, the critics, the dream killers.

Speaker 1 I still tell anyone, if you've got these type of people, and I write about it in the book, these toxic people in your life, they are prohibiting you from reaching your greatest potential.

Speaker 1 What happens if the toxic people in your life are are your family, though? I know.

Speaker 1 And that happens, I think, that people talk about toxicity and talk about people getting the toxic people out of your life, but it's not so easy when they're like your blood, right?

Speaker 1 Like if it's your wife, your husband, your sister, you know what I mean? Whoever it is that's close to you, it's not like

Speaker 1 it's hard to kind of just drop them if you're a loyal person. Yes, it is.
But you also have to, again, put yourself first.

Speaker 1 I think it's really important because if they're toxic, that is going to drag you down. I also believe in balance.

Speaker 1 If you're spending time, let's say you're family, you go to your mom's house and she tells you why your company is not going to work. Right, right, right.

Speaker 1 You need to balance that with five more people that are telling you why it's going to. So you have to offset it and really being conscious.
I also think boundaries are really good for a family.

Speaker 1 I don't want to talk about my company that I'm going to build because you don't think it's going to be successful anyway. So let's just talk about something else.

Speaker 1 And I think putting up boundaries for a family is really a good idea because what they're saying really hurts, right?

Speaker 1 If your family doesn't like what you're doing and they think it's a bad idea, you take that very personally. So I think just let's not talk about it.
Right. Or there's always other reasons.

Speaker 1 Like people are usually a lot of things, I think people are very fear-based. And so they put the fears onto you.
Like,

Speaker 1 not always, it's a bad intention, right? Sometimes it's jealousy, which by the way, happens too. But it also could be just like because of their own fear, they're just like self-imposing it on you.

Speaker 1 Yes, they're self-imposing their limiting beliefs on you because they don't think they could do if they were in your shoes and so you have to identify that is them not me yeah exactly so then when you sold your first company you were 30 years old how much did you sell it for 20 million and then what did you now what did you do after that

Speaker 1 i had a very big earn out for another 20 did you did you get investors to help you with that nope nope just my nanny so then i called my nanny i told her nanny you made your money back like a hundred times over

Speaker 1 yes because you gave me the first ten thousand dollars

Speaker 1 i thought your nanny oh my nanny, my grandma. Your grandma.
Yes, my nanny. Yes.
Oh, my gosh. Yes, my grandma.
I called her. She's my only investor.
So, okay, because you just said nanny.

Speaker 1 I was like, yes, you get your nanny. I got confused between the granny and the nanny.
The granny, same person. My nanny is my granny, and she's amazing.
So your nanny was your granny? Yes.

Speaker 1 Okay, so your granny wasn't. Yeah, it's not my nanny.
Like, that's my kids' nanny. It's actually my nanny, as in my granny.

Speaker 1 So your granny gave me the money and then she made her money. Can you imagine my nanny gave me the money? Well, that's why you said, nanny.

Speaker 1 I was like, did I miss something? No, it was good for you. Okay, I just was like paying attention.
I was like, nanny, granny, maybe it's my hearing.

Speaker 1 I know my eyes are bad, but I thought my hearing was still pretty okay.

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Speaker 1 So then you Nate made that money and then what did you do after that? I honestly, I started investing in other people because I wanted to pay what she gave me.

Speaker 1 You get a lot of rejections and it only takes one person to make a bet on you and to believe in you to change your life.

Speaker 1 And so that's why I invest in so many companies and so many entrepreneurs because I want to pay that forward.

Speaker 1 I want to be that one person that makes that first check into an entrepreneur with just has an idea and have that be transformative. So do you have a fund? I have my own family fund, yes.

Speaker 1 Yeah, your own family fund. So name some companies that you've been an investor that really hit.
Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 The trade desk, I invested very early on and now it's worth, it did an IPO, so it's probably at 30 billion. Okay, so that's a good one.
Okay. That's a good one.
That's a good one. Let's see.

Speaker 1 I'm an investor in a company called Crisp, a company called... Capari.
I'm an investor in. Oh, Capari, I know that one.
Yeah. That great Coca-Cola.
I like that. Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 Stod, stodd which clothing brand i mean so i mean i've got a laundry list yes a laundry list of amazing people

Speaker 1 or how what kind of funds is it is it like

Speaker 1 yeah i mean that's what i do so so you run the fund yes i run the fund i make my own personal investments yep and so how when you look to invest in someone are you looking for the passion and the entrepreneur oh yes Because I know I am an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1 I know that it's going to take more than whatever you think is going to happen. It's not going to happen.
It's going to take twice as much time.

Speaker 1 It's going to take twice as much money and it's going to take twice as much heart as you ever thought. Totally agree.

Speaker 1 So, you know, it's my belief, I'm actually talking about this next in a couple of days, that I believe that VCs, and the research backs this up, it's not just my own personal opinion, that VCs invest in founders more than they do the business model.

Speaker 1 So you could have like an okay business model, but the founder is really like impressive and dynamic. You'll put your money there versus the opposite.

Speaker 1 Like you could have a stellar business model, but the founder is not that great. You're not really that stoked on them.
You won't put, you will, you will not put money in.

Speaker 1 It's actually a 40% change and you'll get a 20% higher valuation if you like the guy or the girl. Oh, for sure.
I think I look at three things when I invest. One is the, so three T's.

Speaker 1 One is the team, the founder and the people they have surrounding themselves. So they're like, I'm going to do it alone.
You're not going to. So that's a huge red flag for me.

Speaker 1 If you just think, oh, this is my idea. I don't need a team or I don't care about my team.
As a founder, you really need to care about your team.

Speaker 1 The second is a TAM, which is the total addressable market. I want to know there's a big market opportunity for me to make a lot of money.
And I usually look for technology companies. Now,

Speaker 1 because I come from a tech background, it makes sense for me in my investment thesis. Obviously, I go outside of that depending on my own passion.
So I'm really into health and wellness.

Speaker 1 Obviously, that makes the cut for Juni or some of the other companies that are aligned with my own personal values. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So you think that, so of the three that you just said, you said team, if you're going to make teams number one. Team's number one.

Speaker 1 Is there a big gap between number one and number two? If you don't have the, I mean, people first,

Speaker 1 exactly what you're saying, people invest in people. So if you do not have the right people, it doesn't matter what business you're in.
Yeah. No, I totally, I totally agree.

Speaker 1 I got to look at my thing now because I told you I'm blind and I can't see anything. But so let's go into something else that I think that you were talking about, the five traps that hold us back.

Speaker 1 Let's go through those besides the obvious one. I think fear holds us back.
Yes. Wow.
And comfort holds us back. We're comfortable, right?

Speaker 1 And I think that goes back to the mistake of staying too long. And I mean, I've stayed too long in a job.

Speaker 1 I know so many people have stayed too long in a relationship and a job and they just stay because they're in these traps, these traps of comfort, loyalty, fear.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's so many traps, right, that they just can't get out of. And we look at all those in the book.

Speaker 1 And I think at the end of the day, there's two things that I recommend people do, which is one, really think about yourself and think about where you are in your situation and ask yourself if you're earning or learning.

Speaker 1 These two things. If you're not earning more money and you should be, you should leave.

Speaker 1 And if you're not learning new skills, new opportunities, if you're not actually getting intellectual stimulation, you should go too. Else you're just trapped.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I totally, so those are, those are really good ones. I really like the fact that I think that the loyalty can is everyone can relate to that.

Speaker 1 Well, not everyone, if you have a heart and you have, you know, some kind of, it's hard not to, but you also, I think the other one is like, we are our own worst enemies, like conquering that inner critic kind of thing.

Speaker 1 I think you talk, you talk about that in the book, because we can talk ourselves really in or out of anything.

Speaker 1 How do you suggest somebody can conquer their inner critic?

Speaker 1 I think it comes with action, to be honest. Like action creates confidence.
And I think you have to act in order to, and act by doing something that scares you and excites you, right?

Speaker 1 And that creates the confidence that I can do hard things, hard things that I didn't think I could do, hard things that scare me, hard things that I'm afraid of.

Speaker 1 But that gives you the confidence to think, okay, I did that. I could do it again.

Speaker 1 I mean, I have, and honestly, when I look at things that I'm like, oh my gosh, how am I going to be able to overcome this?

Speaker 1 I look back at all the things I've done previously and that gives me confidence to push forward because I know I've overcome certain challenges on my own journey that gives me the confidence to know I can overcome new ones.

Speaker 1 So this is what I'm going to, I'm going to, I agree with you, but I'm going to push back for one second, right?

Speaker 1 Because you're somebody who comes from, you did it, you, you took a chance on yourself and it worked, right?

Speaker 1 Like you, you like had a payout and you had all these other successes to kind of build your confidence.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about about the person who maybe did, who tried maybe once or twice and it didn't work out for them.

Speaker 1 They actually had failures that didn't kind of pay off yet, but yet they're still like itching to do something.

Speaker 1 How do you get somebody who has like now a poor track record to take a chance on themselves again? I mean, first of all, failing does not make you a failure.

Speaker 1 So you have to be able to separate those two things from your mind.

Speaker 1 And then you have to know, statistically speaking, if you failed once, you're actually twice as much, twice likely to be more successful. So great.
We're now on the road to success.

Speaker 1 So I think knowing that gives you the confidence to say, I've actually been to, I hate rock bottom. You know, rock bottom is a great place to start again.

Speaker 1 And knowing statistically that you likely will be better because you learned, you know, not what not to do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Not always. Don't do that.
And I think, but you do learn a lot through failure. And I think I've learned more from my failures than I have my successes.

Speaker 1 So let's talk about a couple of your failures again that have then led you to your biggest successes.

Speaker 1 Well, I've had so many failures and so many. Well, first of all, I talk about in the book, the mistake of partnering with the wrong people.
Yeah, you know what? That's a great one to talk about.

Speaker 1 Partnering. See, I'm very interested in all the like the kind of like that type of thing, the interpersonal EQ parts, because to me, that that's what makes or breaks anything.

Speaker 1 You know, like picking the wrong people, staying too long because you're loyal. These are the things that really stumble, like stop people from getting to the next place.

Speaker 1 So let's talk about picking the wrong people. How do you pick well?

Speaker 1 At first, I picked a lot of bad ones.

Speaker 1 Right? Like, yes. Yeah.
So, because you know, people think that if they have a great resume, that's the perfect person for them, which is completely not true. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 I talk about in the book, the POP, the perfect on paper. Oh, I have.
I've hired the perfect on paper. You know, they look so good.
The resume is perfect. They came from the perfect background.

Speaker 1 They look perfect, everything about, and then they get them in and they're terrible. That's like men, also, actually.
Yeah, possibly, right? Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 Or women, too. Like, that's the thing.
Like, it's like the sales representative is perfect. You know, they look perfect.
They went to Harvard. They have this.
They have the perfect job.

Speaker 1 They have the perfect pedigree, the perfect family. And then in real life, they're awful.
Oh, awful. And like, how did you get this far? But they look really good.
I don't know. I got suckered in.

Speaker 1 I hired one and I talked about someone in the book that I hired. And it was a disaster.
Talk about the disaster. So, I hired a head of sales many years ago, and he looked perfect, literally perfect.

Speaker 1 And I was so excited because I needed a new sales lead, and this is such a crucial position.

Speaker 1 You know, you know what the red flags were, though, is when I asked for references, and I think references are really good, he always had an excuse, like, oh, the person left, or I, you know, these excuses of why I couldn't find or call or verify.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But the resume looked great, but the reference, and I kind of let it slide, right? Okay.

Speaker 1 The person, you know, it seemed plausible. And

Speaker 1 it's funny you say the references. I don't trust that from as far as I can throw it because anyone could put any Tom, Dick, or Harry on there.
You call them.

Speaker 1 They're not going to say, they're not going to put a reference down that would say anything bad about them. They're going to obviously pick people.

Speaker 1 It could be their brother for all you know or their sister. And they can call, you know, who will obviously say nice things about them.
So I think that the referencing is a total farce.

Speaker 1 But if you ask around, it's so interesting. Cause I did pick the wrong people and then people said, I could have told you once I let them go.
They're like, why didn't you just ask me?

Speaker 1 And I'm like, I don't know. I didn't, I don't know.
Do you know what I find? I found recently now because of the internet, the World Wide Web. Yes.

Speaker 1 If someone talks a big game and then you can't find anything about them online in terms of like, no, I'm not talking social media. I'm talking like, you know, in like...
in like business stuff.

Speaker 1 I agree. Online, that's a red flag.
Red flag for sure. If you don't have a LinkedIn profile and you're trying to get a job, red flag.
Red flag. Amen.

Speaker 1 I also feel, and tell me if you agree, that a lot of times, like, it's a gut thing, right? Like, I can meet people recently, even, like, who we were saying, like, who have the perfect pedigree.

Speaker 1 They went to Wharton, they did this, they did that.

Speaker 1 And then I met someone who barely even has a like a college, any no college, have like a high school diploma, but they have such grit and self, and they're so motivated.

Speaker 1 I'd hire that person any day of the week over the person that looks perfect. 100%.

Speaker 1 I could not agree more. And I think when you're looking at who to hire, and actually I put in specific interview questions that now I use because I want to write them down.
I mean, now I'm telling.

Speaker 1 Yes, because, well, I mean, listen, it's like, what is one thing that I would learn about you three months from now that I don't know, that I wouldn't learn just in the interview?

Speaker 1 Or what would your previous boss say is one thing they want to change about you? Because that will give you insight into like things that they may or may not be good at.

Speaker 1 Or who's someone that you admire?

Speaker 1 Because because likely that's the person that they aspire to be like so i give a list of questions that i you know that are not so surface level like actually trying to understand if you had a team what would that team say that they would want to change about you and it really makes you think because they have to tell you something that is not favorable for them right and also like when Like, I think that the idea that I think I think it was in the book or something I was watching or reading about you,

Speaker 1 you were mentioning mentioning how you're not going to find your perfect job by just throwing in a resume, right? Like it's personal relationships.

Speaker 1 Like you're not hiring someone based on, you know, because it was like resume number 27. Oh, no.
Right. Like you're going to be like, usually it comes from a referral.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think 85% of jobs are coming from referrals, someone in their network, someone that knows someone.

Speaker 1 And honestly, if someone comes to me and they recommend someone, I'm more likely to take that meeting.

Speaker 1 Even actually, even on investment, I'm like, I maxed out on current investments, but if you are someone I know when you come to me, you better say that because everyone's going to hit you up.

Speaker 1 I'm currently on a pause, but it's not, to be honest, it's not true.

Speaker 1 Because if you came to me and you said, hey, I'm investing in this company and we're friends, I'd be like, okay, I'll look at the deal. 100%.

Speaker 1 Because it's like your network is your net worth kind of in a way. Like, I hate that sentence, but it's the truth.
Like, you trust the people that are within your group. Right.

Speaker 1 And then what about, which is interesting? Because what do you think of mentors? I'd love, I love, I talk a lot about mentorship.

Speaker 1 First of all, I think 93% of self-made millionaires have a mentor, first of all, which is amazing. So if you want to make millions, let's, if you don't have a mentor, it's time to get one.

Speaker 1 Think of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett or Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs or Luke Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi, right? Think of people that

Speaker 1 every single person I know that is successful has a mentor. And say you're not an entrepreneur.
Say say you're just in a corporate job.

Speaker 1 People in corporate jobs are five times more likely to be promoted if they have a mentor than those that don't. So simple.
You know what?

Speaker 1 I think the problem is people get caught up in having like this fancy mentor, right? Like this rock star mentor.

Speaker 1 Like, oh, unless I get, you know, Mark Cuban from the shark tank, I don't want a mentor.

Speaker 1 You know what people like, he was saying, like, how many people hit him up like a day, an hour to be his mentor.

Speaker 1 But you can find a mentor that is down the street or within your network who's just doing just a little bit better than you or done better than you that can help guide you and actually care about you.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Right.
I totally agree. I think we look to your point to someone that's so far.
And actually they may not be the best mentor because they did it 20 years ago.

Speaker 1 You want someone that did it two years ago. I agree.
And that they can help you. And honestly, I have so many incredible mentors in my beverage company because I don't know what I'm doing.
Right.

Speaker 1 And you're learning as you go. I'm learning as as I go.
So, but the faster I can learn. And so people that, you know, yes, I've got one that's 20 years in beverage.

Speaker 1 I also have one that's two, two years ahead of me that's crushing it. And so I call them all the time and I'm like, hey, what do you think about this? What do you think about this?

Speaker 1 Always getting great advice. So it doesn't have to be someone so far ahead of you.
It could be someone down the street that's opening up a new, that has a store.

Speaker 1 I also think you're, and I was going to say something, as you were saying that about the two years, I was going to say something that I think that I've recognized and I've noticed.

Speaker 1 I think the older you get, unfortunately, the more stuck in your ways you get and more regimented you are, right?

Speaker 1 I'm speaking for a friend, no joking, but like, but what I was going to say is the people that I've learned the most from in the last few years are these like new, hot, young entrepreneurs who know, who are doing it differently.

Speaker 1 Because what, what worked 10 years ago doesn't work anymore. Oh my God.
Even what worked five years ago doesn't work anymore. Right.

Speaker 1 So like what I think is a really good thing thing to tell people or what I tell people when they ask me is like, don't look at your peer-to-peer, like someone who's like done it 10 years ago.

Speaker 1 Look who's doing it like right now or who's on the up and coming. Get good with, get in with those people because they know what's hot, what's working.

Speaker 1 They know social media, they know digital, they know technical, like they know AI better.

Speaker 1 So like if you're somebody who's like in middle age, and I'm being totally honest, like I think the best piece of advice is get a mentor who's younger than you. Yes, I love that, you know?

Speaker 1 And, but the reality is, you both bring a strength to the table. 100%.

Speaker 1 Those individuals also need someone that knows how to actually scale a business with the operational infrastructure that it takes in order to truly be successful.

Speaker 1 So, how do you complement each other, right? I think that's a really important thing. 100%.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't think, I think that you're very, it's very myopic to think, okay, well, I have the, I have to pick the word mentor usually assumes that the person has to be like 20 years older than you.

Speaker 1 But I'm, I'm just going to like change that whole thing and say that I think the word mentor has to have nothing to do with age and whatever. It could be younger.

Speaker 1 It could be what it could be somebody who's innovative and knows. Like there's like one of these guys that I work with.
He's like 29 years old. And I kind of like poo-pooed his whole thing.

Speaker 1 Like, oh, this is how I learned all this, like a couple of years ago. Meanwhile, he's like going to hit 100 million in his product now.

Speaker 1 Two years later, he is so, i mean way smarter than i actually thought and gave him credit credit to for because i thought to myself oh no no no like you know i was very like rigid and myopic in what i was thinking so just be open-minded you'd be shocked yes i agree and there's so many biases that we carry with us that are limiting our potential because to your point we see oh how could they know but they do know they do know and i think i'm smart enough to know that i don't know anything so i think if you can and this is where i i talk about a lot, asking for help and being okay that you don't know everything.

Speaker 1 I'm not the smartest person in the room, I know what I know, and I'm very good at that, but I also know what I don't know, and I know I don't know everything.

Speaker 1 So, now I'm going to try to reach out and find the people that are better than me, to your point, in social media, in whatever it is that their skill is focused on.

Speaker 1 Let's find them and build a great team.

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Speaker 1 Let's talk about money because I think it's important to mention this, right? It's easier to build a brand or

Speaker 1 build a business or start when you have like that safety net, when you have money to play with. What do you suggest?

Speaker 1 And not like, and I'm not telling you, like I'm saying, you know, you go to the farmers market, all those things, which by the way, that also costs money. It costs money for space.

Speaker 1 What do you tell people about money? Like, if you don't have money to start, how do you get money? How do you start when you don't have like that type of safety net of money?

Speaker 1 Well, I didn't start with much. I did have a loan from my grandmother.

Speaker 1 Granny Nanny. Yes, Granny Nanny.
Start where you are with what you have. And so look around.
I mean, it's never been easier to start a company because of the internet, artificial intelligence.

Speaker 1 You can actually create an entire pitch deck in 90 seconds. I mean, this is insane, right? You can do financial models.

Speaker 1 When I started, I was on a dial-up internet connection, like where it beeped and stuff. I mean, it was, you know, very, very hard.

Speaker 1 And so I think you can create a lot and get to market with very minimal investment and costs. And obviously, I understand from a CPG perspective, trying to get that minimum viable product.

Speaker 1 But I also think now with such a global world, we're able to do that. much quicker and much more efficiently with less capital.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, so you're saying, I also think though people don't have to, like we're saying, reinventing the wheel, we don't have to like start big.

Speaker 1 We can do little things like that we can afford and then iterate as we go, right? Yes. And I always say, don't quit your day job.

Speaker 1 If you got a day job that pays a lot of money, you got eight hours, you know, every day is 24 hours.

Speaker 1 You got eight hours to work your current job, eight hours work on your side hustle or whatever it is, eight hours to sleep.

Speaker 1 I don't know what you're using your eight hours for, but to be honest, if you're just working 40 hours, you're not going to be a millionaire.

Speaker 1 Like that is not enough time in order to actually create the dream and the life that you wanted. You actually have to put in more time.
I think that's like, that's also the fallacy, right?

Speaker 1 People think they can have work-life balance. If I hear that word again, I'm going to puke because there's no such thing as work-life balance.
I need to grind to make it.

Speaker 1 I mean, be like, oh, that's so like passe to say the word hustle and grind. It's what it is.
Hard work and time is what gets you from A to B to Z. I mean, like, it's.

Speaker 1 People think, oh, I can just like, you know, I can just wake up and have my matcha and do my five-hour morning routine and then work for 36 hours.

Speaker 1 And then they're, then they're wondering why they're not crushing life and why their career is stagnant or their business is not taking off. You have to put in a lot of hours.

Speaker 1 Yes, if you're going to work an average job, you're going to have an average life. And if you even work below those average hours, you're going to have a below average life.
You know what?

Speaker 1 I think, and that's fine, but yes, that's honest. Be honest with yourself.
Be honest with yourself. This is what I think the problem is.
I think there's such mixed messages.

Speaker 1 And because of social media, people are sitting manifesting your life.

Speaker 1 Well, listen, you can manifest all you want, but if you're not like laser focused and like working your ass off, good luck to you. Yes, I agree.

Speaker 1 I tell my team, it's like, ask, believe, work hard than the 99%

Speaker 1 and then receive. Like, I love the manifestation.
I'm 100%, but the 99% and the work hard part is like where the magic happens. 100%.

Speaker 1 And it drives me crazy when, and like, the P and the best thing is every, don't believe everything you see.

Speaker 1 Cause a couple of my friends who are on social media who like are the ones like preaching manifestation, they work like dogs. Okay.

Speaker 1 They're working from like they don't they don't have a life they're not working out they barely have the they don't have kids they're working 24 hours on their manifestation because they want to be successful so i think you have to know like you got to be realistic with what actually moves the needle and not just listen to some random influencer who tells you that you can just like believe and and vision and it's going to work for you not happening i completely agree and that's honestly why i wanted to write the book because everything looks perfect everyone's a success on the internet.

Speaker 1 And the reality is, the messy middle, and I talk about it, is where everything else is happening. Totally.
It's like no one's talking about it. So let's talk about how hard it is.

Speaker 1 Let's talk about the grind. Let's talk about the late nights, the early mornings, the times when I want to quit, the times when I don't even think I'm going to make it out of bed.

Speaker 1 Why don't we talk about that? Because it's not pretty and it's not, it doesn't look nice on social media.

Speaker 1 Listen, social media is like a highlight reel, right? It is. You're seeing them like, you know, doing their little saunas and cold plunges and then like, you know, having their six pack.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, most of those people are on a Zempic. They're starving themselves.
And they've also gotten a tummy tuck because like, this is what it is, though.

Speaker 1 But people are not honest, or they, even though they may know that psychologically, they're unable to believe it. And they are believing these people and then they're killing themselves in other ways.

Speaker 1 So I, that's why I like things like, I like when, I like the name of the book. I think it's great.

Speaker 1 And I like when people talk about the messy middle because that's exactly what life really is it really is and I I you know it's fun because I'm in so many companies right now and I share a lot about them in the book as I'm not I sold for 235 million like at the end of the journey but I'm in it right now going through the ups and downs and the roller coaster of entrepreneurship with so many companies and I felt that now's a good time to share while I'm going through it I know you know I guess for me knowing I've already I've gone through it,

Speaker 1 100%. I have confidence I came out the other side.
It's okay to now share, let's just talk about all the chaos. I mean, some of the stories in the book you can't even believe actually happened.

Speaker 1 I think, and I love that. And I like, you know what? But someone like you, again, like, is that someone, this is where I get, you know, I always think to myself, is it like innate or can you learn it?

Speaker 1 Like you made your money, right? You've done so much great things since you've got, you've been so successful professionally, but yet you're still hungry, right? Can you teach hunger?

Speaker 1 Like, either, like, I think that the other thing is not everybody's built and made to be a hungry entrepreneur, and that's okay. That is okay, but don't kid yourself, don't kid yourself.

Speaker 1 I, I think it's, and I think it's it is okay, but I wrote this book for the high achieving individuals that want to reach their greatest potential, right?

Speaker 1 But Michael, and so, Mike, yeah, so I didn't even tell you, Michael. My thing is, like, do you believe that we are either people who are just genetically more ambitious? And can you teach drive?

Speaker 1 Can you teach ambition? Can you teach hunger? Because

Speaker 1 you already did it and you still seem to have it. Yeah, I think it's a balance.
Both, I'm very blessed.

Speaker 1 Obviously, growing up, I was hoping I'd never become an entrepreneur because I have two entrepreneurial parents. And

Speaker 1 it was always like,

Speaker 1 we can't pay a bill. Both of them? I thought your dad was.

Speaker 1 My mom, too. Oh, my gosh.
What did your mom do? She did corporate consulting on,

Speaker 1 you know, going into corporations and doing consulting like for a big firm yeah

Speaker 1 no she's herself herself oh really yes yes yes and so that's hard oh on your own she's a corporate consultant oh my gosh yes and so it was always

Speaker 1 just a constant fight i mean and they ended up getting divorced so obviously it's not good to have two entrepreneurs in one house because you never know what's going to happen so i said i'm going to get a real job i do not want anything to do with entrepreneurial roller coaster right i want stability what i learned is there is no corporate stability.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, not anymore.
No. And I think the best bet you can make is a bet on yourself.
But to your question, are you born with it? Can you learn it? I think it's probably a little both.

Speaker 1 You know, I mean, only because I saw early on

Speaker 1 how hard it was and how much work it took. And so it ingrained in me a sense of normalized work ethic and failure.
And I think that gave me an appetite for more risk. But anyone can hustle.

Speaker 1 Like that is something that you have to think in your mind. Do you want to do that? Do you want to wake up? Is what you're doing like you're so passionate about, you cannot wait to get up and do it.

Speaker 1 Because that is, I mean, that's what I do every day. It's so fun.
Yeah. And you like it.

Speaker 1 Because I want to circle back to something that we kind of, I went on a tangent probably, but something about doing it alone versus with a partner. Because you talk about that a lot.

Speaker 1 How do you find it? How do you find someone who would be a perfect partner besides not looking at the resume, besides asking those questions?

Speaker 1 Do you give people like, do people, should people have like also like a, like a probation period to know? Like, because you don't, it's a lot of its personality types together too, isn't it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think number one, when I look at it, and partner could be, let's just say in a business or in a relationship, I think it's really anchored in your values.

Speaker 1 And so what do I value versus what do you value? If we value health and wellness, we likely will be on the same page in terms of what is most important to to us.

Speaker 1 So if we value hard work, I mean, listen, I don't want to partner with someone where I'm working.

Speaker 1 You know, when you're in school and you're working and you're doing a school project and you, you're doing all the work. Well, that's not a fun partnership.

Speaker 1 So it's trying to understand the values of someone before going into a partnership. What happens if the people like, and I've, this happens, I see this a lot of times.

Speaker 1 You get along with someone really well, right? Like we click, we connect, we think we both love health and fitness. We love the same thing.
And so we want to start a business.

Speaker 1 And then you realize pretty quickly that your strengths and my strengths are exactly the same. So we're missing the

Speaker 1 other part, right? Like we're both great with like sales and marketing and the front facing. Well, then who's going to be stuck doing the actual nitty-gritty, the operations, the spreadsheets?

Speaker 1 I see that happening a lot. But that's an important part to hire the right teams.
You have to hire the team to complement your strengths and compensate for your weaknesses.

Speaker 1 And I think that's really important. So, and recognizing what are you truly good at?

Speaker 1 Because sometimes we then would say, okay, well, I'm going to try to be good at the back end and you're just, you hate it. Right.

Speaker 1 And not good at it. Everyone's disappointed and the partnership doesn't work.
So, really understanding what are my strengths? How much time am I going to be able to give to this?

Speaker 1 How much money can I contribute to this? Like all these things, just like probably marriage, like before you get into a partnership, we should really have a conversation. A conversation.
Right.

Speaker 1 So, cause I think that's what I see a lot happening.

Speaker 1 Like people have the same strengths right versus the yeah because you like people like you right exactly makes sense happens do you see that all the time yes i see it all the time and then it fails or does it not fail

Speaker 1 i think it fails if you have different if your expectation is you're going to be the other side of my coin yeah and you're actually we're all both the same side so i think that's where it fails is saying no no i'm going to be me and you're like well no we have the same strengths which is actually fine but where's the third think of a stool right three legs and a stool great me and you could be great but we we need a third leg, which is going to balance us to make sure that the back end is getting done.

Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything specific that I didn't ask you? Because I'm thinking like I'm forgetting something.
Am I? That like, oh, I have a question for you.

Speaker 1 While you're thinking about that, I want to know what is the, what is the most popular question that people ask, entrepreneurs ask you that they want to know about entrepreneurship?

Speaker 1 Right now, it's about probably raising money. Right, for sure, raising money.
Okay, so do you want to, so what do you say to them? Well, I want to know what's your market traction.

Speaker 1 Oh, just those three things. Yeah, like that's what you hear all the time.
Yeah, all the time.

Speaker 1 And it's great. You should be looking to raise money, but do you have to? I mean, I started at my kitchen table with 10 grand.
Like, listen, I think, again,

Speaker 1 if you don't, people usually say, I'm looking for money when the reality is

Speaker 1 they're looking for mentorship. That is what they need, not my money.
They actually, my mentorship is 10 times better than my money, for sure. That's a very true point.

Speaker 1 I think people assume that they need money, but they feel like that's the way to kind of like, I think also they just need help, guidance.

Speaker 1 That's what the mentorship. They just need to know when I get here, what do I do? Have you been here? How do you negotiate that? Who do you, you know, who can I connect me to?

Speaker 1 So it's not other people's money. It's other people's mentorship that you really need.
Are you mentoring anybody right now? Oh my gosh, yes. So many, actually.
So many. How can you mentor so many?

Speaker 1 You know what? Because I'm passionate about what they're doing. I'm passionate about them as people and I like to, I like to see them succeed.
How many people are you mentoring? Probably

Speaker 1 five.

Speaker 1 So how do you have time to mentor five people? Like how much time are you spending? Like how is it, what kind of structure is it?

Speaker 1 I'm really good on the start or like if somebody's wrong. Oh, right.
So if you call me in like a crisis, I'm a great crisis person. Like, oh, I can't figure out how to.

Speaker 1 If you, I'm running out of money. I have a product problem.
I have a team problem, like the operational operational problem. So I'm really good at that.
And I'm able to give very clear instruction.

Speaker 1 I love my mentees. When I mentor them, they actually come back and say, I just did what you did.
Now, what do I do next? I'm like, oh, you're the best person for me.

Speaker 1 Yes, please don't ask me for advice if you're not going to take it. That's in life, by the way.

Speaker 1 How annoying is it when someone takes and drains all your energy and time and then they don't listen to you? Right.

Speaker 1 But then you know how much fun it is when they do listen and then they come back and you're like, oh, we see progress. Then I'm

Speaker 1 emotionally involved in your success. Exactly.
Which is so fun. That's 100% true.
So then you see five people? Yeah, but mentorship, I think like, how do you view mentorship for me?

Speaker 1 It's, are we setting you up for success? Have I given you whatever you need to be successful? So it's not a, we're not talking every day. No, no, no.

Speaker 1 I mean, we're talking if you're in a period that you need help. Right, right, right, right.
Okay, so you're, and also you're not necessarily an investor in all the people that you're mentoring.

Speaker 1 No, not that way. No, no, no.
I don't think, honestly, I could be an investor, but no, I'm not. I'm just invested in you being successful.
That's amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So then, other, so because you say that you do mostly tech or you like to do tech besides this product, what do you think about the, like, do you see besides AI any area that there is such extreme growth that people should be looking to get into in general?

Speaker 1 Oh, man, I love health and longevity. Yeah.
Like, that's a great. Preaching to the converted area.
Right. That's such a great place to be.
But it's, again, super noisy. Again, like we talked about.

Speaker 1 But if you're super passionate, then it makes a difference, right?

Speaker 1 I wouldn't know how to do anything besides that.

Speaker 1 Like, I, even though to, to your, like, to your point, like the tech stuff is, it's clearly obvious that that's where a lot of where the world is going and money, but I'm not interested in that.

Speaker 1 I love the health plan.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Right.
So I don't even bother. Yes.
Right.

Speaker 1 But if you're, if you tell me about another supplement that I need, which I don't, I mean, a bazillion or another drink or another this, like I just love that stuff. Me too.
I mean, I just love it.

Speaker 1 What other companies are you involved with besides Juni in this space of health and wellness? Oh, my gosh. Well, I usually just use a lot of things

Speaker 1 festival, right? I'm like, oh, but I would. I think like I look at them and I'm looking at new opportunities.
I'm in a fem tech company called Prove, which is female wellness.

Speaker 1 I love, obviously, there's great opportunities in the, in like a menopause space right now. People love them.
But I feel like it's hormonal space. Like there's that overdone, though.

Speaker 1 That's what I was going to say. No, it's never overdone.
Listen. I know, I know.
Just finished saying what's going on. We got 10 people that pitched me the same idea.
It's always about execution.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. I know.
I just, I like fall into the same trap that I talk about, right? Like, I'm always like, and I, by the way, like, like fitness apps, right? Like, I had an app.

Speaker 1 I sold it years and years ago. And then people would come to me all the time, like, with the same type of app.
And I'd be like, it's kind of like, aren't apps done?

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, then that company sold for like a half a billion dollars. I'm like, I guess I was wrong.
You know what I mean? And that's happened like 50 times. Yeah, it's never too late.

Speaker 1 It's never too late. Never too late.
And, like, again, I have to take my own advice, your advice, iteration, not innovation, execution.

Speaker 1 Everything is like everyone and their dog has a good idea, but then how do you execute is like where the money is. Oh my God.
And it's hard.

Speaker 1 So hard, right? But you know, listen, it's hard in beverage, it's hard in beauty, it's hard in tech. Everything's like, choose your heart.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Okay, we're going to leave with me asking you: what is your daily routine? What are your habits every day? We know your hustle.
Yeah, now we have somebody.

Speaker 1 So I get up.

Speaker 1 I love,

Speaker 1 let's see, I meditate. I've got a red light.
I do the sauna. I work out.
All of that. Love the green juice.
Have a protein shake. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. This is again, how long is that morning routine? Oh, my gosh.
Well, four hours? No. I mean, because I'm like in a 10-minute, you know, red light while meditating, while on a beam or mat.

Speaker 1 I'm doing like three things at the same time. Multitasking.
I'm multitasking my health and fitness. Then I work out and then the sauna's right there.

Speaker 1 So I go in the sauna 20 minutes while I'm taking a phone call. Like I'd say, like, I'm quite the.
I love it. So you come, I'll be on the Peloton taking a phone call.

Speaker 1 I mean, I'll take a phone call from anywhere. You would.
Okay, so what time do you wake up in the morning to I wake up at six? At six. Okay.

Speaker 1 And then, like, give me like play-by-play between six and nine. Go.
Oh, my gosh. Okay.
So I'll wake up. My kids aren't up yet.
So then I go and I do the red light. I do the meditation.

Speaker 1 What kind of red light? Are you doing the one? You get the whole panel on a bed. Oh, you have a bed panel.

Speaker 1 It's amazing, Abby. I love it.
But you do it for how long? I do it for anywhere between 10 and 20 minutes, depending on what meditation I'm going to do.

Speaker 1 Do you have have the one that's like also on your face and you're lying on the face? Yeah, yeah, the whole, yeah, my face all the way. No, no, no, but like, there's like another one.

Speaker 1 I went to Gabby Reset, shout out to her. She has this amazing red light at her house where it's like you put this thing on your face.
I don't know what it's called. Maybe they call her after.

Speaker 1 You put it on your face and you're lying on it. It's amazing.

Speaker 1 You don't have that one? No, I just have it. It's fully on, but I have a beamer mat, which is something from Europe, which is amazing.
It's increasing your energy, which is amazing.

Speaker 1 So like start there.

Speaker 1 I well, then I get my kids up to go to school. Yeah, so that's how they wake up.
They wake up about 6.45.

Speaker 1 And so, how old are your kids? There are four. So, two six-year-old boys, identical, and two 11-year-old boy and a girl.
Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 I have a 12-year-old and a 10-year-old, but you have two six-year-olds. Yes, they're so cute.
Oh, my God. And two 11-year-olds.

Speaker 1 You're like in the weeds, weeds. Like, that's you're like, that's busy.
Yes, but we're running this like a, we run it like a company, right? How do you do it? It's very efficient. Okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So we get up. Yeah, no, but the kids are smart.
Six-year-olds, they can make, they can make their own lunches. They can put them in bags.
Like, they know what they're doing.

Speaker 1 You're preaching again to the converted. Okay, so tell me.
Yes. Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 So then they'll go to school and then I'll go to the gym and then I'll do at least a 45, like a hit or a Peloton or whatever I'm doing.

Speaker 1 No, I have a personal trainer. Okay, at the gym? Nope.
I'll do it right in my, I have a, my own home. Oh, so we say you go to the gym.
Oh, my gym is like 10 steps from my.

Speaker 1 I thought you were going to like eat. From my house or something.

Speaker 1 Nope, not leaving the house everything's i'm in your house for efficiency i love it okay so let me just get this straight this is if i love okay so you wake up around six you go into your red light then you go and do your and that you do your meditation in the red light okay then you get the kids

Speaker 1 and you give them breakfast or whatever okay yeah and then you work out yeah then i work out okay and how long you say 45 minute work yeah it depends i've been trying this ems which is like 20 minutes and they're like oh you like that thing well you're working out at the same time that they're shocking you so i'm not i don't know they say it's supposed to be really good for you.

Speaker 1 They say it. I know I've tried it many times.
I don't, it's not enjoyable, though. No, it's not enjoyable.
It's not enjoyable. It's not like I'm lying there doing nothing either.

Speaker 1 I'm doing squats and it's oh, it's hard. Oh, it's hard.
Oh, I know. You know,

Speaker 1 very hard. Yeah.
But I thought if it's only 20 minutes, I could shave off some time. That's right.
So I'm really looking at how to get more. Right.
You're being very efficient. And then

Speaker 1 I'll go in the sauna 20 minutes. Okay.
Which is right next to the chicken in my chicken.

Speaker 1 And then I have a green juice, I have a protein shake. and what's in your protein shake? No, I just, I use, um, oh my god, which one am I using now? We know you use momentous.

Speaker 1 I do momentous, I put the creatine in.

Speaker 1 Best creatine on the market. That is great.
Yeah, I love that creatine, right? Yep, I think it's great. I just got a hyperbaric chamber.
You did? Yes. Do you like it? Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 Yes, but that takes more time. So I'm really trying to know how to figure out how to integrate that into my life style.
You can work in there if you want. I can, but

Speaker 1 unless it, what kind is it? Is it the smaller one or or the big one? No, it's a big one, two seats. So, oh, it's a big one.
I find them, I don't, I don't like them.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't like the way I feel in it. I can't.
Well, that's why I can't, yeah, me too. So, I can't actually work in it.
So, people are like, oh, you can work.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I can't work because it doesn't, I don't feel you cannot right. I can't work.
So, that's a problem. Because I was thinking, I'll just work for a couple hours and that doesn't work.

Speaker 1 So, you know, listen, some people, I don't have a problem with it. I'm like nauseous in there.
Me too. My ears are bogged.
Yeah, yeah, me too. Well, because you're going down.

Speaker 1 Down. Yeah, you're going down.
It's like a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure.
But it's supposed to be so good. It's supposed to be really good.
So, I'm really into preventative health.

Speaker 1 So, if you've got, I mean, listen, I'll take every suggestion you have. I have a million.
I mean, a million. So, then you do that or not always? Right, not always.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no, no, I usually do that later in the day. But you're having a smooth that you're not having like

Speaker 1 literally a protein shake that I drink faster than like 60 seconds and like the night ready to roll. Yeah, see, that doesn't fill me up.
You don't mind?

Speaker 1 Like, you don't think, oh, I feel, no, I feel pretty good. You do? Okay.
And then, and then what? And then you, do you work out every day? Do you do weights every day, like every second day?

Speaker 1 Um, I probably do weights two to three times a week. Okay.
And then, but I work out every day. It's so good for my mind.
Like, I'm not, listen, I'm not like winning on the Peloton.

Speaker 1 I'm just there just to get,

Speaker 1 yeah. We're not in a competition.

Speaker 1 I'm just trying to actually, it's so good for my brain to just get focused and feel good. And I know just that helps me just like get in the zone.

Speaker 1 I think honestly, like to me, exercise at this point is not necessarily, I'm not trying to be like, you know, in a bikini competition. No.

Speaker 1 It's completely, it's foundational for my well-being, my focus. I'm way more productive.
I'm way more alert. I'm way more on point just in everything when I work out.
Me too.

Speaker 1 And I'm not like, I'm not like, I don't need to like, I'm not going to be in the Olympic next week. But I think it's great.
But it's great for my mental health.

Speaker 1 And I think it's the number one, it's the number one longevity hack in the world. There's nothing like, you could be doing every supplement, taking, do, do the hyperbaric.

Speaker 1 You could do the the sauna, but if you're not exercising daily, forget about it. Well, and if you don't have your health, you have nothing.

Speaker 1 There's no, what's the point of making millions if you can't enjoy it? Not

Speaker 1 exactly. No,

Speaker 1 I couldn't agree with you more. Okay, guys, the book is called Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire by Kim Perell.
This was so enjoyable. Oh, I loved it.
This book is really good.

Speaker 1 And I've, like I said, I have to say this because I'm not just saying this because she's sitting across from me, but it really is. It's a really great read, great information, great nuggets.

Speaker 1 So anyway, good luck with this book. Thank you so much.
I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to see you.
And we'll see each other in a couple of days. I know.
I can't wait. I know, right?

Speaker 1 All right, guys. Oh, and also go to Kim Perell at Kim Perel on Instagram or at Kim Perel.
Yeah. Pretty easy.
You can find her. All right.
Bye.