Aftermath

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart Podcast.

Speaker 4 Are your AI agents helping users or just creating more work?

Speaker 7 If you can't compare your users' workflows before and after adding AI, how do you know it's even paying off?

Speaker 10 Pendo Agent Analytics is the first tool to connect agent prompts and conversations to downstream outcomes like time saved, so you know what's working and what to fix.

Speaker 11 Start improving agent performance at pendo.io/slash podcast.

Speaker 12 That's pendo.io slash podcast.

Speaker 13 Black Friday is happening now at the Home Depot, which means it's time to get your home ready for all your holiday moments and traditions. Hi!

Speaker 13 Right now, you can bring home holiday magic with our wide assortment of dazzling pre-lit trees under $99.

Speaker 13 Spend more time creating memories and less time assembling with Quick Connect technology that makes it easy to set up your new tree in a few clicks. Wow.

Speaker 13 Hurry in for Black Friday happening now at the Home Depot.

Speaker 14 Ah, greetings for my bath, festive friends.

Speaker 16 The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money.

Speaker 15 Getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 18 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 19 I used it to get this portable spa with jets.

Speaker 18 Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 20 Save the offer in the app. N1231, see paypal.com slash promo terms points give your renee for cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval paypal link and mls 910457.

Speaker 1 We know no one's journey is the same. That's why Delta Sky Miles moves with you.

Speaker 1 From earning miles on reloads for coffee runs, shopping, and things you do every day to connecting you to new experiences.

Speaker 1 A Sky Miles membership fits into your lifestyle, letting you do more of what makes you you. It's more than travel.
It's the membership that flies, dines, streams, rides, and arrives with you.

Speaker 1 Because when you have a membership that's as unique as you are, there's no telling where your journey will take you next. Learn more at delta.com slash skymiles.

Speaker 24 Previously on Happy Face.

Speaker 25 Today I find out if my worst fears and insecurities are true.

Speaker 23 If I'm capable of being like my dad, you would never do what your father's done, and you could never be what he is.

Speaker 26 I would like to tell my story, the writer of the letter begins. The exclamation point is all his.
So is the labored printing and the odd mixture of capital and lowercase letters.

Speaker 27 No. I don't want to hurt people, but I'm scared I'd like him.

Speaker 28 You're not like him because of that.

Speaker 26 Our universe has a plan for each and every one of us.

Speaker 27 I wish I could see this.

Speaker 27 I want to help you feel it. You have to let me.

Speaker 26 The letter has a happy face at the top of the first page, two tiny circles for eyes, an upturned sliver of a moon for mouth.

Speaker 26 Have a nice day.

Speaker 23 Dr. James Fallon is a neuroscientist at the University of California.

Speaker 5 So here

Speaker 6 you are, and here's the normal.

Speaker 25 And it turns out, yours is completely normal. That's amazing.
Yeah, it's amazing.

Speaker 25 Normal, yeah.

Speaker 5 In the vines,

Speaker 5 in the vines,

Speaker 5 where the sun don't ever shine

Speaker 5 I would shiver

Speaker 5 the whole

Speaker 5 night through

Speaker 23 You told me once that

Speaker 23 Being the daughter of a serial killer isn't something you grow out of. It's something you grow into

Speaker 25 because

Speaker 25 you just can't unrun it. You can't.

Speaker 25 Even when he dies, one day when he dies, those memories will still be there.

Speaker 25 I mean, I don't think about the future with my dad in it. I live my life by my own desires and my own intentions.

Speaker 25 And

Speaker 23 I can get everything I want

Speaker 25 except

Speaker 25 forgetting things.

Speaker 23 As Arthur Golden writes in Memoirs of Agesha, After all, when a stone is dropped into a pond, the water continues quivering, even after the stone has sunk to the bottom.

Speaker 23 I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, and this is Happy Face.

Speaker 23 While having the brain scan last week removed certain doubts for Melissa, the healing is still a process.

Speaker 23 Even simple things like a happy memory of her dad and the smell of house paint as he painted the walls of her childhood home are tainted by his crimes.

Speaker 25 I remember when we took possession of the house, my dad painting the walls white,

Speaker 25 and it came to my mind.

Speaker 25 Sorry,

Speaker 25 it came to my mind.

Speaker 23 Um,

Speaker 25 this weekend, I um

Speaker 25 I bought a fixer-upper in Ohio. And when I entered the fixer-upper,

Speaker 25 I thought, this needs gallery-white walls.

Speaker 25 I just see it had beautiful arches. I saw white.
The walls will need to be white. So I started painting the walls white.

Speaker 25 And for hours, as I was painting, I saw my dad and the smell of the fresh paint and my dad's care in painting the walls white in this farmhouse

Speaker 25 is one of those good memories, you know, of my dad taking care of a property and he's the one who taught me or instilled in me this love for real estate and this love for fixing up properties. And

Speaker 25 that's something that I've had to reconcile because a lot of things that I love are rooted back to my dad.

Speaker 23 Now, every time Melissa looks at white paint, those good memories are overridden by what she learned, that Keith used paint to cover over the splattered blood after killing Tanya Bennett.

Speaker 25 And that's not the first thing that happened, but on my birthday was just a couple weeks ago. And

Speaker 25 my boyfriend bought me a road bike. And I grew up with my dad cycling, and he bought me the cycling shoes.

Speaker 25 And the first thing that went into my mind was Tanya Bennett and my dad saying I would wear my cycling shoes so I wouldn't leave the soul print. And

Speaker 25 I, it's, it's so hard because I love these things.

Speaker 5 Everything I love,

Speaker 5 somehow tied to him.

Speaker 5 I have tried.

Speaker 5 I've tried to outrun. I can't.

Speaker 5 And

Speaker 25 I'll never, I'll never put those shoes on, those cycling cycling shoes, and not think of Tanya. I'll never be able to.

Speaker 25 I want to.

Speaker 29 But Melissa,

Speaker 23 you didn't kill Tanya Bennett.

Speaker 25 I know.

Speaker 23 Maybe it's a question of

Speaker 23 going

Speaker 23 back to those memories and just trying to take the good from them. You cannot take responsibility for your father's actions.

Speaker 23 For Keith's family, shaking off guilt isn't easy. Here's Melissa's mother, Rose, talking about it as well.

Speaker 31 Everybody assumes you are guilty by association. Just because you knew him, because I was his wife, I knew everything that he did.

Speaker 27 I knew he murdered those women. I knew.

Speaker 31 And I had no clue. He had a second wife.

Speaker 23 Over the years, accusations have come in that Melissa wants attention for her father's crimes. People attack her on social media or flood the comment sections on websites.

Speaker 23 Even her own father has accused her of trying to profit off of his murders in his letters to her. But the truth is, Melissa's whole career has been a way to atone for her father's sins.

Speaker 23 And that's true of her whole family.

Speaker 23 One of her siblings is a nurse, another has enlisted to protect the country, her mother spends her days trying to resettle families in desperate situations, and Melissa, of course, is working to speak out for victims and give them a voice.

Speaker 23 What's interesting is that as much as the family is trying to distance themselves from Keith's horrific crimes, Keith is also constantly reminding the public that they are his own.

Speaker 23 It's important to him no one else takes credit for them. Here's reporter Phil Stamford talking about it.

Speaker 25 Have you written to my father since our conversation?

Speaker 26 No, I haven't been in touch with him for years.

Speaker 26 I've done a number of things since then, but, you know, to say the least, we're dealing with a split personality here, someone driven by some pretty serious unconscious compulsions.

Speaker 26 So that's one side of it. And the other side of it was every once in a while, this

Speaker 26 monster from the unconscious would break through.

Speaker 23 At one point, Keith was allegedly offered the opportunity to give false testimony against Phil in exchange for favorable treatment in prison.

Speaker 23 And to his credit, driven by some strange moral code, he refused.

Speaker 26 But there's also the chance that someone who's as mentally unusual as obviously he was might also have been interested in just playing more games and keeping people in the air.

Speaker 26 He did confess to murders that he didn't commit.

Speaker 26 So he was playing fast and loose with the truth at some point, trying to get more attention, which I think is one of the deeper reasons behind some of these killings, just getting attention, getting recognition as some sort of person that he felt had been denied him all his life.

Speaker 23 When you met Jesperson, you had read those letters. So was there that moment of

Speaker 23 authenticity that you knew he was the author? And what did that feel like?

Speaker 26 Because i can imagine that those letters were terrifying to read i knew from my own research that he had to be the guy i mean there were times when i was talking with him when he was talking to me about what he had done that i i had those skin crawling moments that's for sure when he talked about killing one of the truck stop whores in the cab of his truck and he watched it from 20 feet above.

Speaker 26 That's when I realized that this is is a very strange person.

Speaker 23 And regardless of everything Melissa has undertaken and tried to prove, that very strange person will always be her father.

Speaker 25 Well, how I even started my whole beginning was when my daughter asked me a question.

Speaker 25 She got off the school bus.

Speaker 25 She was learning about genealogy and the family tree, and they were being basic, of course. The family tree is going up to your grandparents.

Speaker 25 So she filled out her dad's side, you know, Sam's side, Nana, Papa. And then on my side, Grandma Rose, me.

Speaker 25 And then she realized there's a missing grandfather here. She said, you know, mom, everybody has a daddy.
Where's your daddy?

Speaker 25 And I wasn't expecting that. She was six, like kindergarten.
It just took me back. I thought, how am I going to answer this for her? And so I said, yes, I have a daddy.
He lives in Salem.

Speaker 25 And I left it at that. And I gave her the name to put, just the first name to put in.
I didn't want the last name. From there,

Speaker 25 I went to the libraries.

Speaker 25 I went everywhere, just scouring for information about how do I reconcile this for myself so that I can tell my child this in a way that she can understand without terrifying her.

Speaker 25 And I didn't want to be public because at this point I had un

Speaker 25 nobody knew. I had a business.
Nobody knew who my father was.

Speaker 25 We had bought our house, our first home. Daughter was happy and well-adjusted in kindergarten.
None of my friends knew. My church groups didn't know.

Speaker 25 But I kept thinking about my daughter's question.

Speaker 23 What do you want your children to take away from your journey?

Speaker 25 Finding out that I'm not a psychopath liberated me too as a parent because my son was scared. And I think my son was asking a very complex question when he asked,

Speaker 25 Is it a choice or is it something that you are?

Speaker 25 He wanted to know more about his grandfather, my dad, and I had to keep telling him, You're nothing like him. You're nothing like him.

Speaker 4 Are your AI agents helping users or just creating more work?

Speaker 7 If you can't compare your users' workflows before and after adding AI, how do you know it's even paying off?

Speaker 10 Pendo Agent Analytics is the first tool to connect agent prompts and conversations to downstream outcomes like time saved, so you know what's working and what to fix.

Speaker 11 Start improving agent performance at pendo.io/slash podcast.

Speaker 12 That's pendo.io/slash podcast.

Speaker 22 Life gets messy. Spills, stains, and kid chaos.
But with Anime, cleaning up is easy. Our sofas are fully machine washable, inside and out, so you never have to stress about messes again.

Speaker 22 Made with liquid and stain-resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind.

Speaker 22 Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers, allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly.

Speaker 22 Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth-friendly and built to last.
That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch.

Speaker 22 Get early access to Black Friday pricing right now. Sofas started just $699.

Speaker 22 Visit washable sofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com.
Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 14 Ah, greetings from my bath, festive friends.

Speaker 16 The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money.

Speaker 15 Getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 18 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 19 I used it to get this portable spa with jets.

Speaker 18 Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 20 Save the offer in the app. NS1231, see paypal.com/slash promo terms.
Points give your renewing for cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval.

Speaker 21 PayPal Inc. and MLS 910-457.

Speaker 30 Some moments in life stay with you forever.

Speaker 30 In a special segment of On Purpose brought to you by eBay, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the same exact edition on eBay.

Speaker 30 It was more than just a purchase, it was a reconnection with a memory that shaped my purpose. There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world.

Speaker 30 I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me. Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again.
I wanted the same edition back, not a reprint, that exact one.

Speaker 30 So I started searching, and that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay, where you can rediscover the pieces of your past that still inspire your present.

Speaker 30 Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story. eBay, things people love.

Speaker 30 Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 23 As both Leroy and Don, Fendley made a huge impact on the Happy Face team, and he stayed in contact with both Melissa and me.

Speaker 25 Is it Don or is it Leroy?

Speaker 26 Well, you know what? After talking to you, I started telling people my real name.

Speaker 25 Really? Yes, ma'am. Why did you start doing that?

Speaker 26 Someone pointed out to me that, well, if Leroy's really healed, why don't you just start introducing people who don't know you as who you are?

Speaker 26 Because

Speaker 26 I'm back to where I was before it happened.

Speaker 26 And I saw myself changing. I felt it in my energy.

Speaker 26 People who were, they're like, something's different about you.

Speaker 26 So this whole thing was like, because of meeting Melissa, amazingly lifted off my shoulders because she answered the questions that I needed answered.

Speaker 26 And

Speaker 26 God, the universe has rewarded me in so many ways. He's like, I put you through hell.
You've come out smelling like carnations.

Speaker 26 Now it's time for you to to be rewarded. So I've turned into a whole different person, but at the same time, I'm still the same spirit and soul.

Speaker 23 So it sounds like you went back to your former name, but you've gotten a new life.

Speaker 26 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 23 And it would seem that Don had left a huge impression on Melissa as well.

Speaker 25 You were in my thoughts last night, actually, when I went to this floating restaurant on the water. And I thought, oh, the last time I was here was at Puffins with Dawn.
And

Speaker 25 I remembered that whole experience and how intense it felt leading up to that moment.

Speaker 25 I was terrified, absolutely terrified to meet up with you because I didn't know, I didn't know what you would think of me.

Speaker 25 And I've already dealt with so many people having preconceived notions of me and criticizing me. And I'm not saying this to like feel sorry for myself, but I had enough already on my plate.

Speaker 25 I didn't need.

Speaker 23 i know what you mean on some level don i think melissa's biggest fear was that 20 years ago when she read your words in the newspaper yeah she knew that you were speaking the truth she knew that you saw through everything and the narrative that she'd been fed by her father all those years was not the truth.

Speaker 23 So her fear in facing you was that you would look in her face and you would see the face of her father and that you would blame her for his

Speaker 29 horrible crimes.

Speaker 26 And I fully understand that because

Speaker 26 people, like I said, don't know how to take me and everybody in society always prejudges everybody and assumes that they know about everybody, but they don't know about themselves.

Speaker 26 And now Melissa learned that none of it's true. Everybody has assumptions.
Everybody's going to come up with their own ideas, but it's only us as individuals that we can do for ourselves.

Speaker 26 I'm trying to word this the right way, but we all know I'm the stoner yogi. So

Speaker 25 that's perfect.

Speaker 26 If they understand, it's cool. If they don't, that's their problem, Melissa, because they're not the ones having to live in our body or walk our shoes.

Speaker 23 As we set out to make this series, we wanted to give Melissa the tools and opportunity to understand and confront her dad, the man she hadn't seen in so many years but still had such control over her and her life choices.

Speaker 23 What Melissa ultimately got, though, was actually much better, a release from Keith's manipulation and the confidence to create her own narrative.

Speaker 23 In the end, it was Melissa's choice not to confront Keith. She knew she didn't need to see him or read his letters letters or let him invade her life anymore.

Speaker 23 And that realization set her free on so many levels. And it was a direct result of her meeting with Don.

Speaker 25 I'm trying to find words of what that experience was.

Speaker 25 I think that I have found that meeting to be a sacred meeting. And I felt like it was a crossroads moment in my life that was a gift.

Speaker 25 I thought you would blame me and see my father and me. And I said, I wanted to go to this doctor to find out if I'm biologically hardwired to be like my dad.

Speaker 25 And you said, well, your brain may be, but your heart isn't.

Speaker 26 I said, you may have his blood. but you don't have his heart, mind, or soul because you wouldn't do what you do for others.

Speaker 26 So when you told me that you were going to go to the doctors and get that checked out, I believe I told you that you're not. And I never got the answer to see if I was correct or wrong.

Speaker 25 Well, you were correct. My brain is perfectly normal and not hardwired to be a psychopath.

Speaker 25 And what gave me the courage to go do that was actually your statement to me. After that, though, I mean, it is like

Speaker 25 history just erased. Like, there was this pressure that I always felt walking around this world, feeling like I have to prove myself.
That's a lot of energy to take into every encounter.

Speaker 25 And it's unconscious at this point. It's been decades.
So it just, well, it left this void, like this open space.

Speaker 25 And I felt it. All of a sudden, these wonderful things in the world just started to pour into that space.
And

Speaker 25 yes I didn't know I was gonna meet you this summer I didn't know that

Speaker 25 the universe had this in store for me and I didn't know that I was worthy of this gift

Speaker 26 you don't have to say no more I am so happy

Speaker 25 I really am I'm not scared of my dad anymore

Speaker 25 the lies that he's told me I believe them and I allowed him to shape me and put me in this place, this box. And I was terrified of him because everybody believed his narrative always.

Speaker 25 And so I couldn't outrun even his lies.

Speaker 25 And now he could say whatever he wanted to say and

Speaker 25 I would be fine.

Speaker 23 During that conversation, Melissa brought up the fact that my dad, my father, had taken very seriously ill.

Speaker 23 She expressed her sentiments and almost envy that he had the benefit of being surrounded by his loving, proud family during this painful time and the sharp contrast to her own reality.

Speaker 25 You know, Lauren's sitting across from me and her dad right now is in the hospital or in care.

Speaker 25 And

Speaker 25 Lauren and I have had quite an opposite of upbringing and

Speaker 25 the love that she has for her father and the care that she has for her father and that he has for her makes it so that she's right now currently in

Speaker 25 the most intense grief and pain.

Speaker 25 And that her father is surrounded by beautiful daughters, a beautiful family that loves him.

Speaker 25 And my dad will never get that because he didn't deserve that because he didn't create the life that her dad created. And that's what I know.

Speaker 25 You know what?

Speaker 25 I bet you

Speaker 25 there's going to come a day where my dad passes away and I won't even know it.

Speaker 25 Like I won't even know my dad died because all these years will have passed and I didn't say a word to him and he never said a word to me.

Speaker 23 To be honest, I initially cringed and immediately felt protective of my privacy. Then my dad died.
the next day.

Speaker 23 Now that I've had the time to reflect, I realize Melissa was also grieving with me and for her father.

Speaker 23 Keith didn't just murder eight women. He killed the man Melissa thought she knew and the father she dearly loved.
Melissa's dad died when she was 15, and she's still grieving that loss.

Speaker 23 In that moment of mentioning my dad, she clearly expressed empathy and remorse, confirming she's truly the antithesis of a psychopath.

Speaker 23 But for Melissa's mom Rose, even her life with Keith was filled with a sort of grief she struggled to articulate and understand.

Speaker 27 You know, an intimate partner, you hold each other and cuddle each other.

Speaker 28 It's like,

Speaker 28 okay, I'm gonna go watch TV.

Speaker 27 It was robotic. Yeah.

Speaker 23 Or did you feel used?

Speaker 31 No, I just,

Speaker 31 because, I mean, I never had

Speaker 27 men, I don't know, but like what? Like my boyfriend? Yeah, how

Speaker 27 men are.

Speaker 31 I thought that was the norm.

Speaker 27 The norm.

Speaker 23 You must have been so lonely.

Speaker 31 I was extremely lonely. Matter of fact, I would go to church and I knew my life was out of balance, but I just couldn't figure out why it was out of balance.

Speaker 28 But then...

Speaker 31 I used to have a neighbor when we lived in Zilla, and there was a little old couple.

Speaker 31 And summertimes, they would sit out in the patio and play cards and they had their little lights on you know and I'd sit there and I'd listen to their conversation because they were so close and I just thought that's what a relationship should be like that you enjoy each other when you're even that old and they'd laugh and they they would just crack up jokes between them and I thought that's what it is that's what I you know that's what it's supposed to be like

Speaker 4 Are your AI agents helping users or just creating more work?

Speaker 7 If you can't compare your users' workflows before and after adding AI, how do you know it's even paying off?

Speaker 10 Pendo Agent Analytics is the first tool to connect agent prompts and conversations to downstream outcomes like time saved so you know what's working and what to fix.

Speaker 11 Start improving agent performance at pendo.io slash podcast.

Speaker 12 That's pendo.io slash podcast.

Speaker 22 Tired of spills and stains on your sofa? Wash away your worries with Anibay. Anibay is the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget-friendly prices.

Speaker 22 That's right, sofas start at just $699.

Speaker 22 Enjoy a no-risk experience with pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and changeable slip covers made with performance fabric.

Speaker 22 Experience cloud-like comfort with high-resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity, and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime.

Speaker 22 Shop washablefas.com for early Black Friday savings up to 60% off site-wide, backed by a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund.

Speaker 22 No return shipping or restocking fees, every penny back. Upgrade now at washable sofas.com.
Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Speaker 5 Ah,

Speaker 14 greetings for my bath, festive friends.

Speaker 16 The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money.

Speaker 15 Getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 18 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 19 I used it to get this portable spa with jets.

Speaker 18 Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 20 Save the offer in the app. N1231, see paypal.com slash promo terms points give your renee for cash and more paying for subjects terms and approval PayPal Inc.

Speaker 21 457.

Speaker 30 Some moments in your life stay with you forever.

Speaker 30 In a special segment of On Purpose, I share a story about a book that changed my life early in my journey and how I was able to find the exact same edition on eBay years later.

Speaker 30 There are certain books that don't just give you information, they shift the way you see the world. I remember reading one when I was younger that completely changed me.

Speaker 30 Years later, I found myself thinking about that book again. I wanted the same edition back.
Not a reprint, not a different cover, that exact one. So I started searching.

Speaker 30 And that's when I found it on eBay. That's what I love about eBay.
It's not just a marketplace, it's a place where stories live. Shop eBay for millions of finds.
Each with a story.

Speaker 30 eBay, things people love.

Speaker 30 Listen to on purpose on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 23 Melissa and Don were initially linked by Keith, but they are both determined to transcend his effects on their lives.

Speaker 26 Our gift now

Speaker 26 is to

Speaker 26 pass on the words of survival and that when you do make it through the tough times that are put in front of you that are out of your control, if you handle them in the right way, you will be rewarded.

Speaker 26 Whether you believe in God, the universe, aliens, birds, Egyptian cats, you will be rewarded. And we are proof of that because both of us have lived in deep, dark places.

Speaker 23 I just, you know, for me,

Speaker 23 it really is

Speaker 23 humbling to watch. It is the triumph of good over evil, ultimately.

Speaker 26 I mean, I really hope we can help not just each other grow further in our lives and stay connected, but to help other people.

Speaker 26 And I did tell you, you will love and you will care.

Speaker 26 So I said those words, but I didn't believe them 100%.

Speaker 26 I had to tell myself that stuff for years to get through it. And when I met Melissa, all those words were proven right.

Speaker 26 Does any of that make sense?

Speaker 25 Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 23 The most telling change in Don was evident when confronted with the idea of being face to face with Keith, present day.

Speaker 26 If I met him in person,

Speaker 26 I

Speaker 26 would hope

Speaker 26 that my power and my strength would hold me back and I would say,

Speaker 26 you lose, me and your daughter win. But in honest reaction, at this very moment,

Speaker 26 my anger side still would want to put him in some kind of other pain, but not kill him. You know, I'm not trying to be mean or angry, but my good side would say, we win, you lose.

Speaker 26 I think that part is stronger than my angry part, so I wouldn't do that is what I feel in my heart.

Speaker 26 You know, I'll be honest, I really haven't even thought about it, you know, I used to think about the guy and so forth,

Speaker 5 but

Speaker 26 he ain't even in the back of my mind anymore.

Speaker 23 Like he's not living rent-free in your brain anymore. He's not controlling your thoughts.
And that's all part of, I think, your acceptance of yourself and going back to Don and letting Leroy go.

Speaker 26 Right. That's a a great metaphor.
I don't know how I didn't come up with it, but yeah, I am able to be more free than I've ever been now.

Speaker 23 What Melissa ultimately regained through the journey, through Dawn, through everything, was to regain control of her own story without Keith.

Speaker 23 At points, you thought that you needed answers from your dad.

Speaker 23 How do you feel now?

Speaker 25 Yeah, I thought that I could ask my dad really honest questions and that he would give really honest answers. But through this journey, I found that he doesn't tell honest.

Speaker 25 He tells his own narrative and that changes depending on what he wants from you.

Speaker 25 And even if I was to meet with him, he would spin me a tale

Speaker 25 I don't need any more of his narrative

Speaker 25 that's control

Speaker 23 so has this journey given you the narrative back

Speaker 25 yeah it's given me the freedom to tell my own story to myself like who I really am who I intuitively thought I was like this identity is really about our self-beliefs And we operate our lives by the beliefs we carry about who we are.

Speaker 25 And for so many years, I operated my life with the story I told myself, which is I'm the daughter of a serial killer.

Speaker 25 Therefore, I am bad. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
I am part of that tree.

Speaker 25 And now

Speaker 25 that's no longer my story. I'm Melissa Moore,

Speaker 25 a mother,

Speaker 25 a woman.

Speaker 25 And that's what I am.

Speaker 25 There's no tagline. Like, I don't, I don't have to carry daughter of serial killer.
Like, I don't, it's just Melissa Moore.

Speaker 25 Just like you're Lauren.

Speaker 25 You don't have a banner behind you.

Speaker 25 You know.

Speaker 25 That's liberating, you know?

Speaker 25 It's liberating.

Speaker 23 As sensational and at times surreal as Melissa's story has been, There's something very universal about her journey.

Speaker 23 It's really about the triumph triumph of the human spirit over fear, shame, and ultimately grief.

Speaker 23 In the end, it's about hope. The hope that good can triumph over evil, or at least lessen its sting.

Speaker 23 Oh, hey,

Speaker 5 can it be

Speaker 5 another way

Speaker 23 to punish me?

Speaker 5 a thousand lives,

Speaker 5 light years fly,

Speaker 5 dark years wander slowly by.

Speaker 5 My broken voice, it calls to me,

Speaker 5 reveals what notes I'll never meet.

Speaker 5 I'll drift in words way out to sea,

Speaker 5 way out until I'm history.

Speaker 24 Happy Face is a production of How Stuff Works. Executive producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bright-Pacheco, Mangesh Hatikador, and Will Pearson.
Supervising producer is Noel Brown.

Speaker 24 Music by Claire Campbell, Paige Campbell, and Hope for a Golden Summer. Story editor is Matt Riddle.
Audio editing by Chandler Mays and Noel Brown. Assistant editor is Taylor Shacoin.

Speaker 24 Special thanks to Phil Stanford, the publishers of the Oregonian newspaper, and the Carlisle family.

Speaker 4 Are your AI agents helping users or just creating more work?

Speaker 7 If you can't compare your users' workflows before and after adding AI, how do you know it's even paying off?

Speaker 10 Pendo Agent Analytics is the first tool to connect agent prompts and conversations to downstream outcomes like time saved, so you know what's working and what to fix.

Speaker 11 Start improving agent performance at pendo.io/slash podcast.

Speaker 12 That's pendo.io/slash slash podcast.

Speaker 32 Hey guys, it's Aaron Andrews from Calm Down with Erin and Carissa. So as a sideline reporter, game day is extra busy for me, but I know it can be busy for parents everywhere.

Speaker 32 You're juggling snacks, nap time, and everything else.

Speaker 32 Well, Gerber can help create a more parent-friendly game day because they have the most clean label project certifications of any baby food brand.

Speaker 32 So you can feel good about what you're feeding your little ones. I mean, Mac loves them.
You can't go wrong with the little crunchies.

Speaker 32 You just put him in a little bag or you put him in a little container and he's good to go. Make sure to pick up your little ones' favorite Gerber products at a store near you.

Speaker 33 AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes.

Speaker 33 Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice.

Speaker 33 Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails, and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI transformation at rubric.com.

Speaker 33 That's r-u-b-r-i-k.com.

Speaker 33 America, America, you used to be so fun,

Speaker 33 but now you go to bed at night, scrolling on your phone.

Speaker 33 Well, listen up, America, Carnival is here with world-class crew and ropes course to and comedy and snorkeling, and dining like everything

Speaker 33 from sea to shining sea.

Speaker 17 Find your fun again at Carnival.com.

Speaker 24 Carnival is calling.

Speaker 15 Ships registered the Amazon panel.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.