Psychopathy

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Previously on Happy Face.

Meeting Melissa's mom in person, I was really taken aback by the fact that they don't look alike.

She absolutely looks like her father.

Keith fell in high school.

I believe it was 25 feet.

When they interview killers, they have found that a large percentage of them damaged their frontal lobe before they were 22, changes their whole personality. I went back to my truck and rehearsed the lies I planned to tell when I was arrested.
What made me cross the line into murder? Maybe it was my nature. There was just this thing that people said in the family, would say oh that's just Keith that's just how Keith is and it seemed to be acceptable did you feel you're in control? did you just lose it with his son? I just lost it I don't think it had anything to do with control it just had paybacks to bitch and I just grabbed him and just started wailing on him.
Of course, I didn't know him to stop. I was going to beat him to death.
I'm scared I look like him. I came from here.
That's okay. My heart is so turned off, I'm afraid I'm built like him.
In the pines, in the pines, where the sun don't ever shine, I would shiver the whole night through. Worst case scenario about tomorrow when I meet with Dr.
Fallon is that I'm going to find out that biologically, my brain is wired exactly the same as my dad. Melissa's deepest fear is that somewhere in the threads of her DNA

are the same miswired strands that eventually led her father to kill.

I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, and this is Happy Face. I'm prepared for both ways that it will, like I know I'm a flawed human being.
I know that I sometimes can get narcissistic like everybody else. I know sometimes I can be selfish like everybody else.
I know that sometimes I forget to say the right thing to someone or to offer the hug when they needed it. I know that sometimes I laugh at inappropriate things at the inappropriate time.
I know sometimes I can be insensitive. I know that, but that's not all the time.
And I know I'm not a bad person, and I can see that other people are flawed too and make mistakes too. And that's what makes me give some comfort that maybe I'm not a psychopath, is that all of these things that I've been looking for are just common traits amongst us all.
Maybe I'm just as flawed as everybody. Even if you are, you're going to realize that it doesn't change any of those things.
You're a good person. You would never do what your father's done, and you could never be what he is.
Last week, Melissa had a PET scan to determine if her brain had the neurological markers associated with psychopathy. Today is a really big day for me.
It's a moment that I am coming face to face with something I've been running away from, from learning about. I had a hard time sleeping last night because today I find out if my worst fears and insecurities are true.
My dad and I had a very close relationship, almost a psychic connection, and it makes me wonder if my connection with my dad was because our brains are similar or our makeup is similar, if I'm capable of being like my dad. But I don't know, and maybe Dr.
Fallon can explain to me the difference between the brain of a serial killer and the brain of a psychopath. Maybe they're different, but in my mind right now, they're one in the same, and I'm nervous about that.
Are you ready to face it today? I think that in the past, I wasn't in a space where I could accept the results. I feel so much more secure with who I am.
I feel like with Dawn's acceptance of who I am and knowing that my heart is different than if my brain does prove to be similar to my father, that at least my heart is different. I'm actually, you know, when I think of the word psychopath, I think of someone who's a killer, someone who's cold-hearted, someone who is evil.
And maybe that term is the problem. Melissa's definition of a psychopath is a description of her father.
Keith's definition, however, differs. I want to know what happens in a person's mind from point to point in their life?

I don't think a person is a psychopath all their life.

No, I don't either. No, I think it's something they grow into.

Yeah.

And it's a behavior pattern they grow into.

And it's like we live normal lives up to a point.

And we make that conscious decision to go a certain way.

And then it's like watching Planet of the Apes.

Everything goes in a different direction.

So you don't turn right or turn left. Possibilities are endless.
What's going through your head right now? Do you know what to expect? The doctor has my brain scans and maybe I find out that I am a psychopath or maybe I find out I have a brain tumor. Maybe I might have a perfectly healthy brain.

I don't know.

Like, I could be walking into anything actually today.

But I think knowing is better than not knowing.

Why does it matter?

Like, what do you hope you're going to gain from today?

For me, why it matters is for a lot of people, I feel like I've been under a microscope.

And I really haven't had any tools to combat what they say. But at this point, I'm almost, I really don't even care what other people think.
This is for my self-awareness. This is for me to be able to know how I relate to the world.
Dr. James Fallon is a neuroscientist and professor of psychiatry and human behavior at the University of California, Irvine School of Medicine.
I'd first read about him years ago in a fascinating article in The Atlantic titled Life as a Nonviolent Psychopath. In it, he shares his own incredible experience of accidentally discovering he possessed the brain imaging pattern and genetic makeup of a full-blown psychopath while conducting unrelated research, and how that knowledge impacted his life and relationships.
When Melissa shared her fears with me about her own potential psychopathy, I immediately reached out to Fallon. I felt if anyone could walk Melissa through her PET scan and her results, Dr.
Fallon would be the perfect person for the job. Dr.
Fallon? Hi, how you doing? Good to meet you. Nice to meet-tended plants and flowers, and the inside was filled with family photos, and art, he explained, was mostly created by various family members.
It felt like a welcoming, creative place. This is my lab.
This is your lab? Yeah, because I do analysis. We plan experiments here.
So anyway, this is where we live. I love it.
And I was just looking at some of the slides. Just got your slides.
Right. You know, your PET scan.
As you can imagine, I'm kind of nervous. Why? Well, I don't know what you know about my background.
I know who your dad is, certainly. But I don't know much about you, and I didn't want to know too much about you, you know? Because I didn't want to look at the scan with some idea of who you were.
Okay. That's the idea.
Yeah. The less I know going in, the better.
Okay. Okay.
Again, because Dr. Fallon's own brain exhibits indicators of psychopathy, we felt he had the ideal insight and expertise to help Melissa navigate and process her PET scan results, regardless of what they revealed.
The behaviors are not in themselves evil. It's the context that we consider making them evil, and that context is defined differently in different societies.
Both societies are not the same. So there's no absolute behaviors of good and bad for these things.
So it's not just the genes you have. Because I mean, I inherited all these psychopathic related genes.
I don't have much anxiety. If I'm caught by somebody doing something, I can look them in the face and they go, he's completely innocent.
So you can inherit them, but if you've been treated okay, and especially with love, it kind of negates that effect. All you do is become assertive, low anxiety, kind of up all the time.
You can be glib and all this stuff like that. You can sound like a salesman, but it comes across as an earnest and unerseous way.
So are you a psychopath? I'm not a categorical psychopath. I mean, I've been analyzed.
I've been psychiatrically analyzed. And one of the interesting reads, I was looking at, you know, one of the diagnoses, and it was basically the summary is that here's someone who has all the thoughts and urges and dreams and everything that a full-blown psychopath

has, but he never acts them out. Now, I wouldn't have known that.
I thought everybody was having these thoughts. And really crazy, intense, scared the hell out of people with them.
I always assumed because it was in my head everybody was thinking this way, and they're not. The difference is that I never act them out.
I mean, I got an absolutely clean record, and I got a family. I'm still dating the girl I dated at 12 years old.

We were both 12.

And we'd been married forever, and I've had a really great job forever, and I have kids and grandkids, and I have a normal family life. But somehow, two of the psychiatrists couldn't figure out why I was not, like, a really bad guy because I have all these other, the genetics, the brain pattern, and some of the traits, but I just don't act the bad stuff out.
I'm a wonderful guy. I feel like I'm relating to you right now because I feel like I'm a great girl.
I feel like I'm a great person. Oh yeah.
I think I'm terrific. And it's not that I don't have faults, but overall I said, who wouldn't like to be around me? You know, it's like, you know, I'm so great.
I was like, and so I asked, started with my wife and I asked her, I said, you got to like to be around me? And I was like, you know, I said, great. And so I started with my wife.
And I asked her, I said, you've got to tell me now. Really, what do you think of me? I mean, tell me.
I'm not going to get mad or anything. And I did that with my mother, my brothers, my sister, my kids.
It takes a lot of bravery to hear what people were around you. No, because I didn't really care.
I mean, you know, for me, it was part of the way it is. I just was interested.
And being a scientist, you're able to say, I'm just a scientist. And they all told me the same thing.
They said you do really psychopathic things and you don't even realize it. Did they give you examples? Oh, yeah, yeah, in great detail.
I put people at risk for the fun of it. And it's not like strangers need to worry about me, but if you become close to me, you've got to worry because I'll get you to do something.
I'm the person that runs with the bulls and tries to get you to run with me. That's not psychopathic, but I do it all the time.
And I put my people close to me and friends at risk. I lived in East Africa and I went trout fishing, brought my son, and I brought him into a place I knew there were lions.
And I said, there's only a 5% chance we're going to get attacked, but isn't it going to be fun? So I was telling him, I'm trying to kill him. Right.
But it was for the thrill. So having the genes per se is not the death sentence.
What happens early to regulate those genes, which is fixed, is the problem. Because people always want to know what percent of our behavior is determined by genes, nature, and how much is by environment, nurture.
And it's almost the wrong way to ask the question, as it turns out. And so the idea is if you have the genes, if the gun is loaded with those alleles that tend to give you those traits, and you're abused, it fixes those.
And in that case, the environment means

everything. So in my dad's case, he had the genes and he had the environment.
Yeah. I mean, this is almost every dictator, you know, really aggressive dictator, and every serial killer I've looked that I've, you know, can find as much information, 100% were abused early and they had in their family these traits.
The only one who claims he was never abused was Pol Pot. He was the only one.
I don't believe him. I think, you know, sometimes they lie.
I'm learning about that with my dad, that through this journey, what has been unique about my dad is that he says one thing and what he does is another thing. But he's so believable in what he says that people don't look at what he does.

That's it.

And being raised with that, like I only saw what he did and believed him too. And so as I've been going on this journey, I've been figuring out that it's not what he says is what he does.
But exactly what you just said is how he said it was just so matter of fact and straight face that you just don't even second guess it. Well, this is the charm of it.
This is real psychopaths or people, even narcissistic personality disorder can do it.

With such earnestness and glibness and no anxiety, you absolutely believe them.

You believe them before you believe anybody.

And that's what makes it so pernicious and insidious, you know.

In fact, a real psychopath doesn't really believe what they're doing is bad.

It's kind of just. Whereas a sociopath knows what they're doing is wrong.
Oh, there's a difference. Yeah, yeah.
Well, everybody's got a different definition. But usually people go, they're kind of the same.
They're not. A real psychopath we call a primary psychopath.
And these are the ones that are clinically psychopaths that have no moral reasoning, have no guilt, they have no remorse. So what makes the personality disorders so different than other psychiatric disorders is that people don't know what they're doing, is wrong or different.
And I'll give you an example. We all know somebody who is obsessive and compulsive.
In fact, there's a bunch of people who have OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder. But there are people with OCD-PD, the personality disorder variant of this.
So they have obsessive compulsive personality disorder. The people with OCD doing the crazy things, every time they walk by three times and they skip over, they know what they're doing is crazy, but they can't stop it.
Okay. The people with OCD- PD, the percentage disorder, thinks what they're doing is perfectly okay and good and works.
Big difference, right? Right. So superficially the behaviors are the same, but what happens inside and how they're generated, what they mean are completely different.
Now somebody with sociopathy, like we were talking about, which is called a secondary psychopath, they know what they're doing is wrong. They do have remorse.
They do have guilt. They do have anxiety.
But they're still driven to do those behaviors. So both a psychopath and a sociopath can do the exact same thing, murder, rape, and everything, different reasons.
And a lot of times a psychopath does it for fun. It's a game.
It's just manipulation. They're playing a game with things.
Whereas a sociopath, a lot of times, could be the loser who's getting even

with all the women in the world or all the athletes in the world

or all the blondes in the world.

It goes on and on and on.

But those people can be maybe not wired genetically for psychopathy,

but they were, like, bullied when they're 8, 9, 10 years old.

A lot of times these are bullied people.

But if you are wired for it and you're bullied, I mean, it's just terrible. See, when my father beat me, I wondered what he was feeling when he beat me.
Like, what was there so gratifying to him to beat the shit out of me and then send me to bed like nothing happened

and then go back in and do what he wanted to do with mom or whatever

or just go on with life

and then the next day like nothing happened

he's okay

now when I'm killing my victim

I'm sitting there going like now

is this what my father felt when he beat the shit out of me

is this the feeling he got

did you get an answer to that? I really didn't ¿Es esto lo que mi padre sentía cuando me puso la mierda de mí? ¿Es esto el sentimiento que obtuvo? ¿Tienes una respuesta a eso? No, realmente no. Me siento muy sola.
Me da vergüenza hablar de eso. ¿Cómo ayudaré a mis hijos si no puedo con mi vida? No recuerdo la vida sin estrés.

No recuerdo sin estrés.

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The question remains, does trauma trigger violent psychopathy or is it a domino effect? The thing is, there's so many of these, what are called cluster B, personality disorders. These are the ones that are dangerous to other people.

Like histrionic.

These are people that are always using sex to manipulate people.

And they're really nasty to be around.

And also narcissistic personality disorder and psychopathy. And so for those, what you're doing is basically looking at all these traits, 10, 15, 20 traits.

And the standard thing is you take them, you score each one of those traits from zero to two. Zero, let's say zero narcissism.
One is kind of pretty narcissistic. Two, always narcissistic, like really bad.
And you take all these numbers and add them up. And if it's above a threshold, like for psychopathy, it's above 28 or 30.
Anything from 28 or 30 to 40 is a full-blown psychopath. If you have a psychopath that's 40, you're talking about such a dangerous person.
I've been tested, and I'm not really a psychopath because I'm not a full-blown psychopath, but I'm like right on the edge. I score in the 20s every time.
What I lack is the criminality and the really antisocial stuff. I really have no interest in hurting people.
When I think of psychopath, it seems to have a negative label. Sure.
But is it actually a good thing to have? Is it possible it could be good? Well, you know, a full-blown psychopath, you know, the 30 and above on a hair scale or on a number of scales, it's kind of never a good thing. Because a lot of times they never make it past their teens or 20s.
They're in prison and they can have a lot of disorganized behavior. But people who are borderline or pro-socials that are not quite clinically there, a lot of those traits are very, very useful for navigating and becoming successful.
But there are the traits. One of the two main groups of traits, factors, is called fearless dominance.
And fearless dominance is a bunch of traits, but it's basically the person walks into the room and they got that light around them. People interpret it as charisma.
They walk fearlessly. They'll take chances, but they win.
They know how to take, like, statistical scientific chances and win, but they'll take risks, and they do quite well, and people sense it. People sense it immediately, so they're very attracted to it.
And so that's a major psychopathic trait. And if you look at, you know, the study done of U.S.
presidents from George Washington on, those that scored the highest from their biographers who knew all about them, the ones that scored highest in fearless dominance, the top ones are like Teddy Roosevelt, JFK, FDR, Bill Clinton. They're thought to have charisma and great abilities as leaders, but they have the highest psychopathy ratings.
So people are attracted to it. I mean, this is one of the reasons why psychopathy is always with us, because people are attracted to it.
These are people who would take chances. You want that person on your side.
So I don't care if he's a badass. I want him to be my badass.
I want him to be my crook, my thief, you know? And so the success of psychopaths, especially the pro-social or borderline pro-social psychopaths, is a reflection of people's own lack of morals, I think. Because to win, they want them on their side, even though they know that they're probably going to do it.
It's like, don't tell me what you did. Just win, you know.
Those traits are very much enjoyed and beloved by people. So you say, well, what are you complaining about? but you know if you want to find out if you're a psychopath, you kind of go talk to a psychologist, a psychiatrist who's

an expert in personality disorders. There's no other way.
But once you are found out to have something, then we can use the brain scans and the genetics to know why you're that way. This puts you in another world because

the people This puts you in another world because, see, people aren't expected to murder people. And when you murder someone and you have their life in your hand, just think of no one else has been there but you and think of all your

feelings, all your emotions, put all on the one

the hurt that you have

the love that you have

joy and hate just everything, all your emotions you could ever put together and that's what murder is like Me siento muy sola ¡Gracias por ver el video! Cuando tus pensamientos y tus emociones te sobrepasen, pide ayuda. Estamos aquí para acompañarte.
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After Fallon was able to give an evolutionary and historical explanation of psychopathy, Melissa was finally ready to face and accept her results. So I gave this kind of a general, like, how we do stuff.
You know, I look at the science and the biological psychiatry of it. And so would you like to know what I saw by looking at your scans? I would love to.
I'm ready. You sure? Yeah, I'm absolutely ready.
Yeah. I think after talking with you, I now see that it might not necessarily be a bad thing,

but I'm just curious now.

I'm just, I want to know.

Touch of psychopathy can be a very useful thing.

It doesn't make you criminal or bad,

but you can still be a pain in the ass to be around

with some of these, right?

I mean, you really can.

So you got to be on it,

and then you got to expect that from people.

Okay, I'm ready.

I'm ready.

I'll follow you. Dr.
Fallon's office was filled with eclectic art he'd gathered during his travels, or was given over the years. It also showcased some of his own signature paintings, which tended to involve some very interesting and more than slightly disturbing depictions of clowns, demented-looking clowns.
So have a seat. All right.
Okay. Okay.
So there's many ways to get a PET scan or a functional MRI. Okay.
You can get a CAT scan or a regular MRI that just looks at the anatomy. Okay.
But this is then looking at the function. That's the main thing.
The task that you did, we could have you do other tasks that test your empathy. Okay.
Before you go in there for a PET scan or while you're doing it for an fMRI, you can be looking at a mix of images of things that in normal people provoke emotional empathy versus cognitive empathy. You could go through different kinds of scans that probe different circuits in your brain.
Then we can compare it to normal people and full-blown psychopaths. And really to fully do it, you have to do all these different scans.
That's why it's hard for people, the average person, to do it because it becomes expensive and you got to get into a pipeline, like a research hospital pipeline. But at any rate, you had it done.
So you had the basic PET scan and you didn't have a task. That is, you didn't have to look at scary pictures and disgusting things.
You were just told to what? Close my eyes. And for about 20 minutes, I just kept my eyes closed and I was relaxed.
I didn't see anything. And I try to keep my mind centered and not distracted.
Okay. So this is kind of the non-task task.
And now it's called the default mode network we're looking for. And it's a circuitry that we should see these areas of the brain in a normal person light up.

And these are connected areas that most people's lives are in this mode because you're kind of daydreaming or you're relaxed. You know, there's no task there.
And so a lot of your life is in this mode. And if you look at the connectivity of the circuit, of this, plus with your limbic limbic system your emotional parts of your brain you can really get an idea on why somebody is a certain way you were simply given this task and it sounds like the way you described it is exactly correct and here's the raw scans part of the raw scans are up here without any processing so this is ground truth okay and here is your PET scan again it's not doctored with colors or anything okay because usually you see a pet scan it's like there's blues and reds right there's different colors made in software and it's kind of fudged a bit doesn't mean it's wrong but it's fudged this is like ground pure truth okay and so wherever we see the dark areas you see right here they're dark that's what is really turned on in that half hour before you'd got the PET scan.
And so here you are, and here's the normal. And I tried to, this morning, try to match them up if I could.
And it turns out yours is completely normal. So this first test of this is like your clinical scan is is completely normal so you don't have any problem in your brain that anybody can see and anatomically it's not like tumors anything like that and there's no no weirdness at all it's completely normal and now when we looked at this okay they really match up you'd look like a completely normal for this test so that's amazing yeah it's amazing to be that normal yeah it could be disappointing too so i mean again this is not diagnostic but you have a quite a normal reaction and you see how sort of hot you are down here right i cannot turn this part of my brain on at all wow so when I do default mode, I can't turn that on.
And so that's a psychopathic pattern. But mine's hot.
It's hot. It's normal.
And so after years of wondering if her father's genes had somehow infected her with the same traits, the same buried evil tendencies. Melissa could finally breathe a sigh of relief, knowing that she was another step in the opposite direction of Keith.
The power that he had over me, now I feel like he doesn't have any power over me anymore. I feel like I'm my own person.
I feel liberated. I almost feel like I got out of jail.
I feel so much better. I almost wish I would have done this a long time ago, that I would have not have been running away.
But I would have never been ready for it, I don't think, like I am now. But I feel amazing.
I feel like I'm my own person and free.

Now I'm excited about moving forward in the future.

This is less energy devoted to worry.

The energy that I've been using, scared of my connection with my dad,

can now be used for something useful and purposeful.

And it gives me everything that I need to just look to the future instead of to the past.

If you lost me tonight, do you know where I'd be?

In a blank white house, do you know what I see You may know what I do But you don't know me You could have that too But but you'd rather be free.

Be free. In the final Happy Face, Melissa comes to a reckoning with her past, her present, and her future.
Happy Face is a production of How Stuff Works.

Executive producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bright-Pacheco, Mangesh Hatikador, and Will Pearson.

Supervising producer is Noel Brown.

Music by Claire Campbell, Paige Campbell, and Hope for a Golden Summer.

Story editor is Matt Riddle.

Audio editing by Chandler Mays and Noel Brown. Assistant editor is Taylor Chacoin.
Special thanks to Phil Stanford,

the publishers of the Oregonian newspaper, and the Carlisle family. ¿Cómo ayudaré a mis hijos si no puedo con mi vida? No recuerdo la vida sin estrés.
¿Cómo ayudaré a los hijos sin estrés? Cuando tus pensamientos y tus emociones te sobrepasen, pide ayuda. Estamos aquí para acompañarte.
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