NFL “Making The Leap” Candidates in 2025

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Every year in our league, there are young players who raise their game to a level that changes the trajectory of their teams and football itself.

You know what I'm getting at here.

It's time for our making the leap candidates 2025, that and more today on Heed the Call.

He didn't us assemble.

Hey, oh, hi and hello.

Heed the call.

That's what we do every show.

Dan Hansis with Mark Sessler.

Coming to you on a Wednesday.

Mark, how the hell are you?

I'm doing great.

You know, I'm just, I've been over here at my apartment prepping, preparing to do my part for, I know Justin and I are very excited for the Dan Hansas annual Hall of Fame game bash.

No.

Large party at the Hansas household to celebrate what is an epic intro to the season.

You know what?

It's not so much about

the play on the field and who's on the field and if there are actual NFL players involved in the game that will have any level of impact at all come September.

It's just the celebration of ball.

And a reminder, as we learned so well,

football is family.

We don't know who's family, but it's about someone's family.

You know who's family?

I'm so excited.

One of my favorite things to talk about every offseason, going back way back, are guys

that are going to make the leap and become true impact players in our league.

And hot damn, if we don't have somebody that is

highly qualified to have that conversation, he is our old buddy, and it's been too long.

James Palmer, welcome back to Heat the Call, Baby.

Big applause for Palmer at a big spot.

I do want to say this.

You like hinted, Danny, at like the family thing, and then I pictured myself as kind of like an Uncle Jesse.

But then you got away from the family thing, and then

I didn't know if I wanted to bring up Uncle Jesse, but then I doubled down and said, Yeah, you'd really love to be an Uncle Jesse for the show.

Right.

I mean, I think many men

in our age demographic, perhaps even in Mark's age demographic,

would like to position ourselves as a stamos type.

Yeah.

But, but let's be real, James.

Maybe we're more Dave Coulier's.

Maybe it's more an Uncle Joey situation and less Uncle Jesse.

Let's just want to be real about it.

Cut it out.

Good point.

Good point.

I always go back and think of the show real quick and go like, I love that like an ad agency between Jesse and Joey was being run out of the house and that the two morning anchors of San Francisco's most watched local morning show were living under the same roof.

And if that was just a real situation, that'd be a whole lot of fun.

Also, kind of, you know,

let's be real.

It was like three

men living in the heart of San Francisco and not a gay man to be found.

It was a little outside the box of what one would expect.

Yeah, they zigged when everybody was.

Full house and outlier in terms of the households on some level.

Yes.

This is a concerning admission

because it plays right into the jokes that surround me about my age.

But initially, I thought you were talking about Uncle Jesse from Dukes of Hazzard,

like the snowbearded

mechanic guy.

Well, that's the first Uncle Jesse that I knew, but I've seen the other show too.

Let's just cut that out of the show because we're trying to reach a demographic.

And if people know that one of the hosts tracks 70 sitcoms and TV shows primarily, it's really aging us up into a less coveted.

It's putting us into the demographic where it's like, hey, guys, what kind of ad sponsors are you looking for?

It's like Ed McMahon and Joe Namath selling health insurance for people that wear depends.

You know, okay, let's cut.

I'd say we should cut that.

That was not my intention, but

it's like, get this, get this USA Ruby coin.

And it's like, oh, God, grandpa's blown the inheritance on the Ruby coins on the cable news channel.

Hitting from his corded phone.

Honey, the commercial's on.

What's that, Justin?

Luckily, I bring down the age of this show, the average age, with my spry 30-somethingness.

And I just wanted to jump in to say everyone wants to be Uncle Jesse.

I myself, in high school, for most of my life, was told I look a lot like Bob Saggett.

So I was never the Uncle Jesse.

I thought you were going to be Steve.

You know,

that's a humble admission.

No facial hair.

I see a little Sagett there.

Right.

Yeah.

Pre-facial hair, Justin.

Rest in peace, Bob Sagett.

He was a good man, as I understand.

All right.

Let's get to it.

Enough of this.

Here I was, Mark.

I was thinking that Full House is too dated a pop culture submission.

And yet, the way entertainment works now, the IP is always updated.

So I think they've already now done a Full House reboot that's already gone through like a five-season run.

So any 20-somethings Zoomers watching and listening right now know exactly what we're talking about.

The Duke's a Hazard reference, it's gone.

Well, they made the motion picture made out of it, but I understand.

Like, I'm not, I'm fighting uphill with all of this.

I get that.

with jonathan knoxville yeah all right here we go i think that movie came out 20 years ago yeah all right let's lock in says the guy with the 90s music podcast so i mean you know none of us are our um teens here that's fair it's fair it's a fair retort from the man in the video store

all right let's get it

all right look at palmer's with us sese palmer's with us this is great let's get it been waiting for this yep where has palmer been All right.

Palmer,

a Denver resident,

you've been at Broncos camp.

Is there anything we need to know?

Because, you know, I mentioned we're going to do some making the leap candidates.

So why don't I just start here?

Bo Nix, I don't know if he's coming up in a greater conversation here, Justin.

You tell me.

No?

So tell me about what you think about Bo Nix.

Seeing him in person, is the swag really as strong and definable as it seems from the outside?

Yeah.

I mean, mean, I had a chance.

I went to the first day of Pads.

I've been there the last couple of days.

I had a chance.

I'll start with this.

I'm standing on the sideline.

I get there early because I'm like, hey, you know, sometimes coaches come out.

You can chat.

Sean Payton makes a B line for me.

Humble guy.

Comes right up and just goes, James, I love this team.

I just really, really think this is a good team.

And like,

you could kind of see it.

Like, obviously, Sean is a salesman sometimes, right?

Like, But you could see it in those beautiful blue eyes he has that he meant it.

Like, and this is a really good roster.

Like, it really is.

And obviously, a lot of it, like you mentioned, hinges on Bo Nix's jump to year two.

Here's a good way to put it.

Pat Sertan was doing an interview, and he was being asked about the quarterbacks that are just trouble, like, for him to prepare for.

And he was like, Mahomes, Lamar is trouble, Josh Allen, Burrow.

and they just goes, you know, who's going to be a problem?

Oh, Nix is going to be a problem for people.

Like, he's going to be a problem.

And it's, you know, it's for a variety of reasons.

Obviously, everybody's talking about the time he spent with Drew Brees this offseason for a little bit.

And that's mainly more about schedule and how he goes about his business.

But like, the guy's like 48 years old.

He spent like 11 years in college.

But in all those years in college, which is actually five, he never had the same play caller two years in a row.

He hasn't had the same play caller two years in a row since like his sophomore junior year of high school.

So him being in the system again, when they threw everything at him the first year, I mean, it was different personnel groups all the time.

Everybody's going like, what are you doing to the kid, right?

It'd be like, they'd be in 12.

Next play, they're in 13.

Next play, they're in 11.

And this is a lot on this kid's plate.

And because they did that and the way he played, like, they're ahead of the game in year two in their eyes.

And he didn't really have any weapons around him.

I wanted to say this, guys, and let's do a little

guessing game.

Who do you think threw for more yards last year, Bo Nicks or Jaden Daniels?

Oh, wow.

Well, the way you presented this, I would say, I'm going to guess it was Bo Nicks on the segment.

Bo Nicks was 12th in passing, and Jaden Daniels was 16th.

Who threw for more touchdowns?

Again, well, now for the sake of the show, I'm going to be like, well, obviously, Jaden Daniels did the offensive rookie of the year.

He's a sensation.

Jaden Daniels.

No.

Sixth in touchdowns for Bo Nicks.

He threw 29.

Jaden Niels threw 25.

Picks, Bo Nix threw 12.

Daniels 9.

Who do you think was sacked more?

Mark, you take this one.

I think that, well, you could go a couple ways here because you could say that he absorbed more punishment and succeeded, but I'm just going to answer.

I'm going to go Bo Nix for the flush.

Jaden Daniels was sacked 47 times, sixth most in the NFL.

Bo Nix was sacked 24 times.

The only two quarterbacks that played 17 games, like Bo Nix did, that were sacked fewer times, Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen.

I think that's worth pointing out, in all honesty, the way he played as a rookie.

And now they gave him a run game.

I mean, that is, I'm so glad you spotlighted that because

that speaks to a calmness and an ability to get through your reads and make decisions that takes years for a player.

I mean, look at Josh Allen himself.

Josh Allen was a mess as a rookie with the bills there was bust talk all around that guy until he started to figure out so yeah i think nicks is a guy

i mean let's start talking he's bigger too like he's bigger yeah um the process sean told me between getting the play call to the snap he's seeing more right like there's a lot that goes on for a quarterback from when you get the play call to when you give it to everybody till the ball is snapped like that's a valuable time that varies among quarterbacks he's seeing more in that like he now has a like he didn't have a whole lot of weapons he didn't have a one like Terry McLaurin.

Like Sutton's all right, a bunch of youngsters with him.

Now he has J.K.

Dobbins and R.J.

Harvey, which Sean told me was like, that's the weapon I wanted to give him, like a run game.

And then the other thing that he took advantage of is this is probably the best.

Is this the best defense in football?

I think it is.

If they stay healthy.

And you added Dra Greenlaw in the middle of it, which Sean is over the moon about.

He was like, James, we're in pads.

Just watch Dre Greenlaw.

That's the only player you need to watch today.

How have you escaped?

Because I mean, it's on R-Radar that Sean Payton has a tendency to

lose the fuse a little on reporters, but he seems very cozy with you.

So that speaks to your

affinity for him.

I picked up on that too, Cecil.

I think that was a little double brag by Palmer in a big spot.

Hey, the head coach, the most high-profile guy in the facility, sought me out.

And also,

he's chewing out other reporters on the reg in his press conferences,

like Parcells in 97.

And here I am, essentially, like uncle joey and uncle jesse up in the attic yeah that's what we're doing we're coming up with jingles um sean and i like listen like he doesn't hide who he likes and dislikes like it's it's definitely the way he is uh i think that's with players i think it's with media members i think it's with everybody that's around him um jay listen i'm not saying i'm special jay glazer was like in the huddle the other day like you know i mean i'm not the only person getting a little bit you don't have to cut that you don't have to include that yeah cut that part out yeah cut it out cut it out

cut it out.

But seriously, tell me a defense you think might be better, like a defense right now that you think is better than that.

Dude, you know who you didn't even mention yet?

My boy, Hufanga.

I love Hufanga.

He comes over from San Francisco also.

Dude, first play they have in pads, he comes up and just blows up

one side of the line like a blitz.

Like if he's healthy, which I'm told he is, the middle of the defense now is very physical with Dre Greenlaw and Telenoa Hufanga.

Sidebar, do you remember how good Dre Greenlaw was playing in that Super Bowl before somehow he tears his Achilles, jumping up on the side?

One of the craziest things

everywhere.

We went to a decade of Super Bowls, and watching that replay

from the press box, just seeing, just coming off, heading to the field off the sideline, just collapsing a ball, and it's like the worst injury you could have, essentially, just about stunning.

I'm told John Lynch won't even talk about it.

There are people in San Francisco that will say...

and truly believe to this day, if he didn't go down, they would have won that Super Bowl, which even remember, I think he played like, what, like the first quarter?

He had like...

he was out early.

He had like a tackle on half the plays that were played until he went out.

Like

they do believe he's that big of a difference maker.

We'll see how he is post-injury for Denver, but like you have the defensive player of the year.

You have talent on all three levels.

It's a really good team.

To your point, if you look at the Broncos, if you go to like PFF before we move on here, like they're, you know, green is good, right?

And it's like, it's both sides of the, of the, of the, of the line because the offensive line has rapidly improved.

Like, I think Sean Payton, along with growing Bo Nicks up, has gotten this roster from where they were two years ago into a completely more dangerous place.

And that's why I think they're one of the more interesting AFC teams out there.

They really are.

But this division's bonkers, right?

Like, look at the four coaches.

I love it.

I love the AFC West.

I absolutely love it.

I mean, listen, let's.

Real quick, quick sidebar here.

And James, you've been on our show a ton.

You were on the old show a bunch, but I don't know if you know that we had an old tradition

over at the NFL where it was the team of ATN.

And

it would be a team that we felt organically aligned on and believed in and were excited by.

And I got to be honest with you, like, I harbor some resentment toward the Broncos for what happened in 98 in the AFC title game, you know,

10-0 third quarter.

Belichick and Parcells on the sideline, Vinny and the Jets, Curtis Martin, Keyshawn Johnson, Mo Lewis,

Aaron Glenn, primed to take two weeks off and then play

Chris Chandler, I think it was, in the Atlanta Falcons, Bloodbath.

It would have been slaughter.

It didn't work out for the Jets.

They lost 24-10, and I've struggled with that.

But at the same time, that was like 30 years ago.

Get over it, brah.

And I like this Broncos team.

I am a big Parcells disciple.

I love Parcells, and Peyton is like, he is like your link to Bill Parcells.

You brought him up as much as Sean brings him up.

Yeah, like I like that he's making one big run here.

The quarterback is young and exciting.

Ceci, like we could bring this to vote, and I want to have Connor involved in the conversation, but let's,

you know, the Broncos is a team that we can all get behind is maybe the inaugural team of HTC.

Is it something we should talk about?

I mean, it would be magnanimous on our part because you mentioned that 1998 AFC title game.

Have you ever heard of the drive or the fumble?

And then the white belt happens here.

Sorry, it's the Jets AFC title game that overshadows all that.

Double sidebar.

Can you get into both those games in detail?

Because I am not aware.

And again, we might have a younger audience.

Let's start with the first one.

I think it was two or three years, was it?

Yeah, I can dig a note if we want.

I'm just saying it would be large of us to pick the Broncos.

And yet, I feel

kind of anchored as you do.

They're one of those teams that I feel compared to we were a year ago, they were just so dull for a while.

And it's like, there's some juice here, and I think they're kind of rising up.

And the AFC needs a couple of new teams, some new blood, and the Broncos are one of those teams.

Now, that said, had they not destroyed a Chiefs team with Carson Wentz at the helm in week 17, we would have had the Bengals in the playoffs, which I think annoyed us back when that happened.

But anyways,

I essentially beat the Chiefs earlier in the year, but get a feel ball locked at time.

And there is that one more piece.

There is the one more piece to it, Palmer, which is I think

the whole,

so much of the football public is sick of the Chiefs.

And it would be nice to see something different happen in AFC West after a decade almost now of nonstop Chiefs' glory.

So let's see.

We'll stick a pin in that.

And James, we'll keep you in the know on it

as someone who covers the team so closely because I know that would be a big story to report back to Peyton the next time he bum rushes you in the middle of the field with a big man-hug.

That's a good point.

No, there was no physical contact, but there was a Stern index.

Did he kiss you on the head, maybe?

He's a freaky brother.

No, he did not.

He did not.

What's that exact quote?

I have it written down here somewhere.

I don't know.

The only time, by the way, I touched Sean Payton was at the Combine, and he got COVID a day later.

So a little more ominous.

What?

So the last time Mark came in contact with Peyton, he gave him a communicable disease.

Okay.

All right.

Don't mention that.

I will mention.

Oh, okay.

I won't mention that.

It is one of the great Sessler stories.

Some of those nights, some of the nights at like the, I don't know if it was the owners' meetings or what, but

you know, everybody's at the bar, and

it's a shared hotel bar in the best way, where everyone is on the same page.

Everyone's just looking to buddy up and have a few belts.

And you get a few belts in Sessler, and

there's just a change in the temperature and also a fearlessness

that envelops Mark.

So in this case, it was a corner of these coaches, the highest of the high-level coaches had all gathered in this corner of the hotel bar, like not in the bar area, but kind of off into the lobby.

And I see it in slow motion.

Sessler just chugging over there.

And, you know, the classic Sessler outfit with

the dress coat on and the jeans with the boots or whatever.

And he's just like rolling over.

And he just busts into the conversation.

I don't know.

Maybe I was with Wes or whatever.

And I was just like looking and they're like, is he doing what?

How is this going to go?

And I remember when we saw a couple of the coaches laugh at something you said, it was like, oh, shit, thank God.

It worked.

That's how it worked.

It worked.

I thought it was a hit.

I thought it was a hit with those guys.

That's how I remember it.

I'm not sure how they

should remember it.

You remember it?

That's good.

But it was an amazing memory that I'll never forget.

And then you got the man sick.

All right.

Now.

Making the leap.

Mark, why don't you get us going?

Because that kind of was one.

I think Bo Nick's making the leap.

And what is that leap from?

From

above average starter

who hit the ground running after a bit of a ramp-up period

to maybe being, you know, a fringe top 10 guy.

Does that feel like a fair place to put Nixes upside in year two that he could kind of enter that Justin Herbert airspace?

Does that seem fair?

I think so.

I mean, we don't know.

Yeah, it's fair.

It's got to do.

We don't know, but that's what we're here to do, See.

Baby.

And the one thing I love about Making the Leap and James, this was another one of our long-running series where at times, like between four of us as writers, we would

list like 40 candidates.

And so you hit on a few and you miss on a few, but when you hit, you never let them forget it.

One part of it is you really got to dig into their tape.

And I enjoyed this exercise because I got to take a look at another young quarterback entering year two

who, you know, barely played more than J.J.

McCarthy, if you think about it.

Three starts at the end of the year.

But go watch Michael Pennix throw the ball.

Michael Pennix, to me,

is a fascinating watch.

And here's what he did in three games, real quick.

He absolutely helped obliterate the New York Giants.

Then they put him on prime time against a surging commanders team.

And Michael Pennix, to me, shows what he is in this game.

In the end, in the fourth quarter, he drives the team down the field with two fourth and long completions to etch overtime against the commanders.

Now, they fall there, and that kind of essentially sort of knocks them out of the playoff race, but the throws he makes in that game are pretty incredible.

And the next week against the Panthers team that got way better than we thought, Pennix is back in there in a high-pressure situation, and he is showing chemistry with the weapons that Cousins was fine, but in the past, it feels like Falcons' weapons just never really awoke.

He's hitting Kyle Pitts for a touchdown.

Drake London's on fire.

And what he does and what I love about him and why he seems beyond his years.

And he is 25 or 26 at this point.

So he is an older second-year quarterback, which I actually like.

He stands in the pocket over and over.

And it's, you know, and he was pretty well protected.

But when that wasn't the case and it's crumbling around him, he does not flinch.

I just love the traits about him.

I've been watching, I like to watch their interviews like in year two and come in.

Some of it's garbage, but some of it kind of shows who these guys are.

And I think that he is someone, a small sample size, has really a maturity to him.

And the one thing I think watching that tape is that when you went from all these quarterbacks that the Falcons had to cousins, who was not the version of Cousins that we know, the players around him, the Drake Londons, the Kyle Pitts, like, they love playing with him.

They love playing with him.

And he showed immediate chemistry with a bunch of them.

And even now, and I know this, I'm never going to bring up Kyle Pitts as like, look at him this year, but even in camp, there's been a connection that has not been there with Kyle Pitts being a little healthier.

So I'm Arrow up on Pennex.

I guess it's like you have to kind of just sign up and believe because we don't know.

We've only got a number of games to look at, but there's things about him that look to me like the quarterbacks I've always enjoyed to follow.

And I think it's arrow up for the Falcons.

We used to kill them for drafting them after they signed Cousins.

It's kind of working out because two years later, the money doesn't matter.

And I think you got a starter right here.

Can I make a

money matters, by the way?

It's still not, it was still a stupid decision in, I can't let you go there, Mark.

It was still a bad decision to sign Cousins, then draft Penix.

They should have just drafted Pennex that they loved Pennex.

Cousins was injured.

I'm with you.

I'm not saying that made sense, but they really loved Penix.

If you go back, the whole organization signed off on that.

So you either sick or swim with it.

Like the criticism of the Falcons last year was less about like, oh, can Pennex play?

And more like, why did you invest this level of resources on both levels of the team?

But like to the main point, if the goal ultimately is to build the franchise and send it in the right direction, it's kind of, it's not, it's different, but not totally dissimilar to like Graver's Dallas Mavericks, who made the worst trade in NBA history and then fall into the number one pick and they end up getting this generational talent potentially in Cooper Flag.

It's not the same situation, but like, if Pennix is the guy that you think he becomes this year, and I think it can happen as well, although we haven't seen a lot from him, but it's possible, uh, they'll be fun and they'll work out the money side of things.

But it did put him in a hole, the Cousins side, and he's still on the team, which is annoying.

But that's weird.

They also have James in Cousins, as awkward as the situation is, he's never going to be a problem, Cousins.

And so you're going to have Pennix with a wide open runway to get better.

And I'm excited to see what happens with him in a full year.

Yeah, it can't be more awkward than Cousins has been on the quarterback show.

But I will say this, like

that private plane that had all the decision makers and all the guys on the offensive side of the ball didn't touch down and make that trip to Washington well after

the Cousins deal.

They didn't plan on falling in love with a quarterback.

Like they didn't plan on that happening, but they just fell so head over heels, I'm told, with Penix that they were like, we have to take him.

And then they ask everybody on the defensive side of the ball, who would you take in the top 10?

And they were like, this is what I was told.

I don't think anybody in this draft on the defensive side of the ball that'll be available to us is worth taking in the top 10.

So they kind of just looked at all this and went like, hell, let's just do it.

We love the guy.

And so I love what Mark's saying, because I will tell you this, a big part of the break I was told between the spring and training camp was with Michael Pennix as our quarterback, we are reimagining our entire offensive philosophy because there's not a piece of grass he cannot touch.

There's not a throw that he can't make.

They were limited in some of those things with Kirk Cousins and the age and the arm that they are not limited to with Michael Pennix.

And also Kirk Cousins fell in love with Darnell Mooney, fell out of love with Kyle Pitts very early last year in training camp.

It is the opposite.

I wouldn't say the opposite.

It's no discredit to Mooney, but the feelings towards Michael Pennix are, I'm feeling towards Kyle Pitts are very different with Michael Pennix than they were with Kirk Cousins.

So I like this arrow up.

They are in love with what he can do offensively.

And they've reimagined the offense because of the skill set he brings.

All right, I'll go next.

I'm going to go another quarterback.

But before we do that, let's take a quick break and then we'll continue with our making the leap candidates 2025.

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All right, we're back.

Let's get into it.

Yes, Caleb Williams.

I'm going to go there.

Number one overall pick, 2024 with the Bears.

His dad was all pissed off.

Chicago is where quarterbacks go to die.

And you know what?

Whether or not you believe that he should have been chatting with Seth Wickersham and putting all that talk into the public sphere, he wasn't wrong about year one.

It was a total mess.

And this was

a team where Matt Ebruf Luce was not the right guy.

Shane Waldron, the OC, was not the right guy.

They replace Waldron with Thomas Brown, not the right guy.

Then they fire everybody and bring in Ben Johnson.

And

I think the interesting thing, before we get into anything, like everything that

the Bears are doing is not new to what they were trying to do last year in some ways, in terms of the type of attack they're going to do, which is going to be reliant on trying to get the ball out quickly,

you know, utilizing your playmakers,

using the whole field, getting the quarterback to

not take too many sacks.

The issue was that they didn't have, I think, the right personnel helping the kid who even, I guess, told his dad at some point that he wasn't even being told to watch, what to watch on film.

So here's Ben Johnson, a guy that's been coming over from Detroit, the highest pedigree possible that you can have in this type of situation.

Everyone believes what he, the architect of the Lions resurgence on offense, he could take that and bring it to Caleb Williams.

And also now you have Caleb Williams that has a really nice group of playmakers around him.

He has an offensive line that has been overhauled.

We don't know if it's better yet, but it's been overhauled.

And now we find out if this is going to work.

So it's going to be a lot on his plate, but

I just want to say, like, based on what we watched last year, I'll get into it this way, James.

What we watched last year with Caleb Williams, despite all the dysfunction, and I don't know, I throw out the very end of the season where it was some of the hardest football to watch, where it was just check down,

swing pass, line of scrimmage throw, and it was just like everything was getting blown up.

It was third and 10, third and 18, fourth and nine, just like no chance ever.

But there were multiple moments in this rookie season that was otherwise a mess where it was like, oh, there he is.

That's Caleb Williams.

That's the guy that they think will finally bring an end to this Bears quarterback curse.

His abilities, his arm talent, his escapability, his ability to just get into a groove.

He had multiple games where he threw over 300 yards and for

two-plus touchdowns.

This isn't a guy who had a complete wipeout rookie season.

There was a lot of good to take away from it.

So I think it's building off the good aspects of that.

And with Ben Johnson, who is obviously the genius of the month right now, is he able to get this kid in a comfortable place where he's not making

bad decisions and getting into bad habits?

Because that was part of it too.

Some of his habits

that he got into were bad.

And Ken Johnson clean up his game and allow this kid to make the most of his weapons, which are plentiful.

Yeah.

I think we're always victims of recency bias.

I mean, Jaden Daniels made us completely forget about C.J.

Stroud after his rookie year.

And Jaden Daniels made us completely forget about, as we talked about earlier, Bo Nix in his rookie year.

And I think it also has overshadowed, like, there's flashes of why Caleb Williams went one.

Like, I remember talking to a number of scouts that were like rolling to his left and throwing across his body.

Like, I'm not sure anybody I've ever scouted can do it arm talent-wise the way Caleb Williams can.

But what are we doing now?

Ben Johnson is here.

What's one of the biggest things we hear during training camp?

We've changed the quarterback's footwork.

And that's one of the many things that Ben Johnson is out there trying to do to change things for Caleb Williams and these bad habits that you mentioned.

But I talked to Greg Olson a couple months ago about the addition of Loveland to this offense and how huge that is for Caleb Williams and the way Ben Johnson's going to use him and the safety safety valve and security blanket that a pass-catching tight end is going to bring you.

And that the departure of Keenan Allen allows Roma Dunze to play actually where they want to play him, but they couldn't last year because Keenan could only play in one spot due to his age and some of the deficiencies.

Progress stopper to use it for Celsius.

Throw him in there.

Just keep feeding them.

And so I do think everything's in place.

And the last part about it is the interior of the line.

The tackle is still a question.

You mentioned overhaul.

Joe Tooney's arrival in Kansas City changed everything up front, not just from the way he played, but the way his mentality and his intelligence spread through the line.

I'm curious.

Obviously, he's not the player he was when he arrived in Kansas City several years ago.

He's much older now, arriving in Chicago, but it could have a similar impact up front.

And then we find out if Caleb Williams is going to get rid of some of those bad habits, because I think he's going to be in opportunities where he doesn't have to rely on some of those bad habits and play differently.

Yeah, like I was once part of

a hideous corporation way back in my 30s, and it went bankrupt.

And with each passing week, I lost another layer of supervisor, like my direct supervisor, and then the one above him, and then the one above her.

And by the end of it, I was just floating around the office with no job.

And I think if you're Caleb Willems, like last year was like you're losing all your leadership.

And then you found out the leadership wasn't even really teaching him.

It's like, I completely look at him as someone where like, whatever was negative a year ago, start fresh with a head coach who is also glued to you, like a Sean McVay, versus a defensive head coach where you're going to use your offensive coordinator as the scapegoat, and he also wasn't doing a good job to begin with.

So, it's like Caleb Williams with a better offensive line and actual care and leadership.

Like, yes, Dan, I think that's a good person to bring up because we don't know the same way we don't know with Pennix, but we have seen elements and flashes from Williams that tell you he can be very special.

And he, as I said, he had

two i believe two games where he had over 300 yards and multiple touchdown passes he had a bunch of games where he he ran the ball for at least 30 yards on the ground like he has all that in him there he also had some of that like

i hate to even bring it up because i don't think that's who he is this is an accomp but some of that you know zach Wilson behind the line of scrimmage in him at times last year where he's he's looking for a receiver it's not there and then he kind of just starts dancing and spinning and pirouetting and ducking and diving.

It's like, and the play then is just totally blown up.

He started all 17 games last year, got sacked 68 times.

So I think like the Ben Johnson assignment here and what we'll see, and I'm really excited for like their first four games or whatever.

It's a tough division.

I don't know about the Bears this year and whether they're going to make that leap and

bring football back to Chicago and all that, but I think there is a lot of room for growth on this offense.

And I'm looking forward to that first like four to six games to see if he has gotten Caleb Williams to calm down a little bit in the pocket and trust his eyes more, go be able to go through progressions and not bail out as much as he did.

So,

as bad as his setup was

leading to his dad's like Wickersham partnership, I think he's in a very good setup now.

And if he doesn't make the leap in year two, I think it's fair for the Bears to ask questions about whether he is the guy entering into year three.

But for now, I'm bullish that Caleb Williams showed me enough in year one that there is a leap here.

So let's see if it happens.

Yeah.

All right.

Mark, what years did you work at Radio Shack?

Is that what you're talking about?

You know what?

I love the fact that

I'm roughly six years older than you guys, and you act like I was part of the French-Indian War.

Like, this is, you know.

Roughly is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

But, you know, Mark used to work at TWA.

Yeah.

A and AM.

Can I go with somebody?

Yes.

Throw somebody out there.

So you're going to.

Do you have a quarterback too, or what do you have?

I do not have a quarterback.

I do not have a quarterback.

And this is due to some coaches on the staff I've talked to from what we saw in a small sample size last year due to injury, very small.

The Kansas City Chiefs believe Rashi Rice is a top 10, possibly top seven receiver in this league.

Ayo.

They think the world of him.

And talking to people that have been at camp so far, he has looked outstanding.

Yes, there could be some sort of suspension coming due to some off-the-field Tom Fuller.

Yeah, it's coming.

Yeah.

But I wanted to point out, and I looked this up the way the season started last year, because they want to accomplish this year what they wanted to do last year, but never could because Hollywood Brown went down, right?

Was that in training or preseason, I want to say, and never played.

And then three weeks in, that's all we get to see of Rashi Rice.

But in those three weeks, week one, nine targets, nobody had more than three outside of him.

Week two, six targets, five catches, 75 yards touchdown.

Week three, his last full game,

14 targets from Patrick Mahomes.

Nobody else had more than five.

I remember going into the year last year where they were like, this is the focal point of our offense.

It's Rashi Rice.

It's not Travis Kelsey.

That's only going to be...

compounded this year, right?

With Kelsey even being another year older, and he knows what his role is going to be, and they want to be a little more explosive, and they have Worthy to go deep, and they have Hollywood Brown to go deep.

And now the low, like the shallow crosses that some people in the league tell me like there may not be anybody better than him about going across the field in that five to 10 yard kind of range.

And when he gets the football, he is a running back with the ball in his hands going downfield and yards after the catch.

So

if I'm basing this off of the Chiefs expectations to where they think this guy is going to be a top 10 wide receiver in the NFL in his, what, third year?

And we remember what he did in that rookie season before last year.

I think this is a huge jump that Rashi Rice comes like onto the scene as one of the best receivers in football.

I like it.

I like it.

I like it.

Go ahead, Mark.

Well, I was going to say the details of the suspension, a different conversation.

Like,

I don't worry with a team like the Chiefs.

You'll ride that out and he'll be back at some point.

You're right.

Like, first day of camp, he was already the most targeted guy for Mahomes.

Like,

they have a connection.

They waited for that.

And I like this group of wide receivers in general.

It's not just him alone, but if these guys stay healthy it's like he is a breakout candidate because you know that offense is just gonna it's gonna do its thing and they've waited for someone to come and play this role and if you can do that it's a big boost for mahomes as well hey ask a question what is what is waiting for the chiefs you expect the chiefs offense to do its thing what does that mean in 2025 so they they wanted to be explosive in in 24.

It was, let's get back to, I mean, obviously there's no other player in the league like Tyree Kill, but like, let's get back to forcing teams to cover much deeper, to cover more ground.

Remember, they were kind of a dink and dunk team the last couple of years because they had no ability to stretch the field.

That was the point that they wanted to make last year with the addition of Hollywood Brown, and they wanted Xavier Worthy to be the complement to that.

And with both those guys being able to stretch the field, Rashi Rice and Travis Kelsey had all this room to work in the middle of the field, in the underneath game.

Well, then.

Worthy was supposed to be a complement to it.

Hollywood goes down.

Worthy's thrust as a rookie.

And if anybody knows Andy Reid's playbook, it's like so extensive as a receiver.

It's way too much on his plate.

He did get, you know, we saw him in the Super Bowl like when the game was over, but going out there and making plays.

And like

now with all of it together, it's, we want to be explosive.

Like we're tired of having one of the most talented arms in football, one of the most talented arms we've seen maybe ever in this league being like, I don't want to say a game manager, but Patrick has talked about that.

Like we have a good defense.

Like let's possess the ball.

They had like more 10 plus yard, 10-plus play drives than, like, anybody in football last year.

They want to get back to being explosive.

Yeah, they're

so just matriculate down the field.

I think part of the part of the exhaustion around the Chiefs that I think is less played up, but is equally, I think, an issue for many of us is it's not so much, oh, the Chiefs get all the breaks.

And it does seem like the officiating sometimes goes their way or just the ball bounces a certain direction in a big spot.

But also, they stopped being fun to watch on offense.

And Patrick Mahomes continued to be this great

field general and they kept winning.

But

I'm so

kept.

I think we're all kind of bored a little bit of the Chiefs and by just the way they've found a way to just grind through seasons and even through playoff runs.

It would be fun if there's some explosiveness back to it.

Is Rice the guy that turns the key to make this engine really roar again?

We'll see.

I mean, first of all, is he 100% healthy?

I know we're getting good camp reports, but it was a lower body injury that ended his season.

We do have the suspension coming, but

they need it.

God, they need it.

They need somebody to really step up and be like an all-pro-level producer because obviously Travis Kelsey, I think it's safe to say, isn't get that guy anymore.

And Tyree Kill is long gone by now.

Good one.

All right, let's do a quick speed round.

I'll add one here.

San Francisco 49ers.

A lot of people are into, I feel like, the Niners.

And we're going to do our over-unders

later this summer on teams, and maybe they'll come up.

I'm not as bullish on the Niners.

It feels like people have blown past last year and now have them as NFC title entrants again.

And I guess I'll save that conversation because I think it's a good conversation to have.

But a lot of like win prediction models and Vegas and Mark, we had our schedule easier.

Yeah, we had a little, they have a great schedule.

I think they get what the AFC and NFC South.

I get all that, but they also lost a lot of pieces and they're in transition in a lot of ways.

So I don't know about the Niners, but I do know about, I think, Ricky Pearsall.

I, obviously, his rookie season could not have started worse.

He literally was shot in an attempted robbery.

And thankfully, he was able to recover from that and then get on the field.

And then, once he found his way into that offense, which is obviously the whole team was kind of just massacred by injuries last year,

he immediately found a role.

And that game, week 17 against the Lions, was kind of like the Eureka one.

It was like you could see it.

I think he went off for, what was it, Justin?

He had a massive day in that game.

And the Lions, a team that had deficiencies on defense, no less, but he was just running wide open prairie fields across the field and making plays, showing off his row tree, showing off his escapability,

showing up the ability to beat them deep, the defense deep.

So I think there's a lot of space for Ricky Pearsall to have a big year two leap.

No Debel Samuel, of course.

Brandon Ayuk is sidelined and definitely after his bad knee injury last year.

Jawan Jennings is kind of the dog there, maybe, with Christian McCaffrey, hopefully the engine of the offense.

But there's going to be a lot of space for a guy like Pearsall to develop.

And I could see him being a guy that gets a ton of targets in this offense and will know what to do with it.

So, Ricky Pearsall is another making-the-leap candidate.

Sessler, you're up.

Okay,

yes, Raeziger, you're up.

Sorry, just to finish the Pearsall thing, he finished the season, his last two games, 14 catches on 18 targets for 210 yards in those two games, including 141 in that game against the game.

Eight for 141 for Pearsall in that game.

I just, yeah, I think Purdy's going to be looking to pass the ball, and he's going to be the dude.

All right, who do you got, Casey?

Yep, they need him to be.

There is a player out there who was much belly hoot as a rookie, 10 games with

fewer than 50 yards received.

Oh, I know who

he is.

Of course you do.

But it's, I think it's like ridiculous to say he didn't have a very productive productive rookie season.

He had 885 yards, eight touchdowns.

Marvin Harrison Jr., only four other rookies with less than 65 catches, he had 62 catches, have ever done that.

Two of them are Julio Jones and A.J.

Brown.

So it's like

this was not a disappointing season, but it's because he came in in like golden Hall of Fame jacket, swaddling clothes, that we assumed he was going to, like in week two, he has 130 yards, like he's going to explode.

And it was just hot and cold.

I think if you take a a closer look and people that have really studied like what happened to his season, I don't think he was used well.

And I think that there's going to be a chance that he'll be used better this year because they sent him, I think because of his size, his speed, just who he is, they shot him down the field on like an inordinate amount of go routes, which were not that successful.

Like he did things really well, but they really didn't use him in a really rich variety of ways.

And I think this year, Andrew Petzing

is the OC who's gotten some a little bit of head coach buzz early on at moments, not right now, but like he's a promising OC.

It's like his job is to create a better

situation for this very talented player who put on 11 pounds of muscle in camp.

He is 6'4, 220 right now.

And here's what I like about him.

I thought he was a little unplugged in terms of who is his person, what's his personality a year ago from the draft on.

Like listening to him, again, I like to listen to these guys.

Like I see someone that is a little stung by a year ago and motivated to prove that he is the junior of this incredible family line.

And also, one last thing.

You've got Trey McBride around you.

You've got Michael Wilson.

You've got James Conner.

Greg Dortch is a good receiver.

And if Kyler Murray can be the better version of Kyler Murray, I don't see what he doesn't, again, he doesn't have to do it alone.

I think Marvin Harrison explodes this season.

If the Cardinals cannot mishandle him, I think he has a monster year too.

I like that.

That's a home run to me, Mark.

And if he doesn't have a big year this year, I'm more willing to say the Cardinals it up rather than there's something wrong with Harrison.

Sure.

All right, close it out, Mr.

Palmer.

Quinion Mitchell, the cornerback for the Philadelphia Eagles.

Okay, there you go.

I think after this season, he will solidify himself into that top group of corners that when I ask offensive coordinators and quarterback coaches, I'll just remember the names I bring up.

Patrick Sirkan is unanimously always considered the number one corner in football.

The guy behind him by most people's accounts is Derek Stingley.

The guy behind Stingley by most accounts is Trent McDuffie.

Those are the top three in most people I talk to around the league's minds.

I think Quinyon Mitchell can get himself into that top five corner group after this season.

He was outstanding as a rookie.

They put a lot on his plate.

I know a lot of people in Philadelphia.

I kind of went with two Super Bowl teams,

I know the work ethic that they know.

He calls coaches at 2, 3 in the morning, not,

hey, I'm Rashi Rice.

No, I'm studying film.

What else do you want me to watch?

What else do you want me to look at?

And they're already starting to come up with the thought process of having him shadow number ones.

So he's been playing on the left and the right during training camp as they'd like to see if he can become a guy that follows people around.

What puts him in that situation and in a really good situation to be able to do that is his secondary coach and Christian Parker, who was with Pat Suktan in Denver, who was with Jaira Alexander in Green Bay, and made both of those guys into number one shadow corners.

I think

Quinyon Mitchell has the ability, specifically in training camp, as he's been locking up A.J.

Brown and Devontae Smith.

just decent receivers he has to go against when one that ones go once,

has a chance after this year to be considered in that top five corners in football.

Love that one.

I mean, incredible what

how he pulled off there.

He gets Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper Dejine in the same year.

Dejine finished fourth in rookie of the year, by the way.

Yeah, that would have been my guess for second, actually.

But

he got both of them.

This is a good stat from Aaron Schatz and FTN.

And by the way, Aaron Schatz is going to be joining us next week, which will be great.

But

he

among 113 corners with at least 200 coverage snaps.

This was as a rookie.

Mitchell was 16th in targets per coverage snap.

And I'm going to quote this.

He did not let plays get worse when passes were completed with the lowest yards after the catch per reception allowed at the position 1.4.

So while Dejine obviously deserved all the plaudits he received, including the big pick six that kind of put away the Super Bowl, those are the type of numbers It's a perfect, I mean, it's a great way to end the segment, James.

I mean, making the leap from a guy that stepped in, was immediately an impact player, and now maybe can turn into an all-pro at the position.

And that's what making the leap is all about.

I think we went six for six here.

Yeah.

Well, we'll, you know, we'll cycle back next summer.

And if we did, we will play it up.

And if we fail, we'll never mention the segment again.

Like the Ryan Sandberg game.

James,

rest in peace, Ryan Sandberg.

I rewatched all his at-bats from that game the other day.

Oh, yeah.

The former player was great.

He was my favorite player.

Was he?

Yeah.

He was was your Donnie Baseball.

He was my Donnie Baseball.

And I somehow got my hands on,

as we wrap this up, a Ryan Sandberg wrestling buddy.

Do you remember the wrestling buddies?

I didn't know they had an MLB edition.

I didn't know either.

And somehow one was under the Christmas tree one year.

And later in life, as an adult, I got Ryan Sandberg to sign my wrestling buddy, Ryan Sandberg.

And I eBay,

I don't know.

The wrestling buddies, you can fly this up, Justin, but the Wrestling Buddies was like a weird like turn of the 90s toy.

I had, and, you know, this is a little Hulk Hogan?

Yeah, I had the Hulk Hogan wrestling buddy who we recently lost the Hulkster.

So we're just collecting.

I hope you, if you, if you're somebody who was turned into a wrestling buddy, I guess head on a swivel.

I guess I'll just go.

Well, most of the time the head on it in a couple years on the wrestling buddies.

So you weren't, your head was not on a swivel if you were a wrestling buddy.

Mark, do you want to share anything about your favorite childhood toy, the pet rock?

Yeah.

I'm not even responding to this.

All right.

Mark's like, back when we used to stare at an open fire.

Oh, in 1988?

Come on.

Get out of here.

Balmer, you've done it again.

Thanks.

Oh, boys, I love you.

Next time.

This is great.

See you, James.

All right.

Thank you.

There he goes.

James Palmer.

He is the man.

He is the greatest.

And we'll obviously stay in touch with him as he continues his coverage of our league.

Hey, before we get out of here, let's do a quick spin around the league and do some news.

Raiders!

I'm such a character, such an animated, sick, twisted individual up here.

Oh, no.

That's Christian Wilkins at his Las Vegas Raiders introductory press conference last year, Mark.

So maybe in retrospect, not that any of us could have known, but some breadcrumbs that the guy that says I'm a sick, twisted individual might

do some things that people in his locker room, no judgment, might find sick or twisted from an individual.

I think there were breadcrumbs.

It's one of the reasons that I don't do opening press conferences when I take jobs or any sort of.

You're famous for that.

Come on, Mark.

We need to feed something to the media.

No, I'll let my performance do the talking.

That's excessive.

All right.

Speaking of performance and money and

all those things, Trey Hendrickson, he wants to get paid for his great performance.

The Bengals, they haven't done it.

So Hendrickson was holding out at the beginning of camp.

But it looks like we might be getting closer to a resolution here.

The all-pro defensive end is set to end his holdout and report to training camp today, Wednesday.

Has that happened, Justin?

Is it official, official?

Yes, he reported showed up in street clothes, is apparently being helpful on the sidelines with guys like Shamar Stewart, giving them tips, but not participating in practice without this new contract.

He's being helpful.

That's good.

He's not giving guys wet willies and throwing paper airplanes and

none of that kind of stuff.

Was it a forehead kiss?

For some reason, I was imagining the alleged kiss

was more like a top of the head kiss.

Oh, maybe top of the head.

Maybe I'm confusing forehead with top of the head.

Yeah, I think it's it's it's one.

I think the latter region you mentioned is closer.

Anyway, as I said, Hendrickson was placed on the team's did not report list on July 23rd.

But that is all in the past, and there's fines that come along with that, but they tend to try to work this stuff out and get everybody in a good place.

So let's see.

He was set to earn 16 million this year, and we don't need to dig into it because there's probably going to be an update in the coming days.

But he's turning 31 this season.

He's the reigning NFL SAC leader, and that's good news for the Bengals, Mark, getting him back in camp.

It is.

I kind of view the Bengals as having stuck to their guns and won here, and Hendrickson was kind of forced into a tough position because I don't think they're going to turn around and give him what he ever wanted.

It's like

you either get what we want to give you or...

don't show up.

I think they would have lived through that or they would have possibly attempted to based on who the Bengals are.

because if you look at like a Max Crosby who's getting 35 million a year and Nick Bosas 34, like my expectation, but we don't know, I think that their idea is that Hendrickson falls in below that.

He's not going to come break the bank and I can't imagine he's too happy with any of this, but you can't stay down in Florida for another year.

Well, you could, but you shouldn't.

You could, but we've already rated Florida correctly.

So yes.

In other Bengals news, they released running back Zach Moss.

He had had signed a two-year deal with the Bengals last season, but

after breaking camp as the starter, didn't play at a high level, then went down with, I believe, a neck injury, ended the season on IR.

And now Cincinnati is moving on.

In other news, this was, man, this was scary and terrible.

An incident that happened at 345 Park Avenue, which we bring up 345 Park Avenue a lot on the show.

It is the headquarters

of the NFL.

It is the offices of Roger Goodell.

It is a place that

is in the most corporate area of this country, where many of the most powerful businesses in America reside as their home address, including the NFL.

And a gunman who targeted the NFL and the headquarters itself

busted in there on,

I think it was Tuesday and or Monday and shot multiple people four were killed and

the investigators believe that Shane Tamura a 27 year old from Las Vegas he was trying to get to the NFL offices because he believed that

that football and his he played high school ball and was a standout player here in California.

He believed that football had given him CTE and he wanted, I guess, some measure of revenge against the NFL, even though he never played in the NFL.

Obviously,

these are the thoughts of a madman, and it's a horrible thing.

He ends up killing himself, shooting himself in the chest, and part of his note that he left behind was study my brain for CTE.

So, you know, the CTA CTE story, which

to be frank, was something that we were not really permitted to talk about at a high level at our old job.

This is something that is a huge story around the nfl and the and brain injuries and how they affect uh players this was not a player this was just a guy that that was it was part of being hooked into um um a news story that surrounds the nfl and it turns into a tragedy and it's really scary and we send out obviously heartfelt condolences to anyone that was affected by it yeah i mean crazy you know the the four victims who are just um going about their their work there and you know, like whenever, you know, and first of all, there's no, there is no proof he had CT saying that.

And he has got a, that reportedly had a lot of other issues over the years.

But the image that stood out for me was that he's sort of casually walking down the street with an AR-15 style rifle.

And I think if you live in another country, because this is happening so often, that if you live in another country, you're like, what's going on over there?

This is terrible.

And it's like you, if you go and read about the four people that were killed i mean

each of them have their own stories and it's it's just like this was senseless this made absolutely there's nothing about this that isn't just completely like what are we doing here um why did this happen how do we stop it and it seems to keep happening it's it's like a weekly thing

um and the the kind of another scary note to the story was that he actually went to the wrong floor.

He was trying to get to the NFL.

He ended up on a different floor.

The elevator doors open up and there's a poor woman that, you know, is not connected to even this guy's thought process that ends up being shot and killed.

So this could have been

an even more tragic story from the NFL side of things if he went up the right elevator bank.

And again, we've been in that office and it's a beautiful office and it's

to see that the whole that how vulnerable we can all be

because crazy people can get access to guns like that is

a scary thought.

And as Mark said, it's something that continues to happen here.

So that sucks.

In other news, we mentioned the Broncos, wide receiver Cortland Sutton.

They reached agreement on a four-year $92 million contract extension.

So good for Cortland Sutton and good, of course, for Bo Nix, who has his number one dude locked in.

I think Sutton's a little bit underrated, Mark, in terms of being seen as one of the top dudes, the top playmakers at wide receiver.

So now in year two, with a making the leap candidate in Bo Nicks, maybe Sutton is another guy you could kind of see that way that can go from like a fringe top 10, top 15 receiver to entering that hollowed ground top five territory.

I do think he has that type of potential.

I do, too.

He's another one of these wideouts, not like a Terry McLaurin, that for years,

quarterback changes, quarterback chaos, underwhelming quarterbacks trying to produce.

You You know, there were whispers that they might move him two offseasons ago.

So it's like now, you know, you kind of won over the leadership and you've got a really promising quarterback there.

And maybe we get the best version of his career at this point.

That's why they signed him.

And finally, in the news, as we do a quick spin around.

And by the way, tomorrow, Connor Orr will be back and we will be doing our preseason power rankings.

Oh, yeah, baby.

Let the metrics roll.

Gravy.

As we do an early look at kind of where all the teams fit, we'll all submit our own rankings, and then we'll find a way to mathematically.

Is it the mean or is it the average?

Let the metrics roll,

it is both the mean and the average.

And yes, it's usually a pretty high-performing podcast.

So

the way his tone, Mark, did you hear his tone on that one?

It's just disgusted.

It's just disgusted with the whole country.

Yeah.

It's like the Adam Scott character in Stepbrothers when,

what's his name, asks,

like, you know, is that a big fish?

He's like,

yeah,

I'd say it's a pretty big fish.

I think that's kind of the tone of Graver

toward one of the co-hosts of the show.

It was dismissive.

I didn't care for it.

Anyway,

finally in the news, let's hear that CBS Sports NFL theme.

People kind of sleep on this theme a little bit.

I think it's pretty good.

It's not as famous as the Fox one or even the NBC one.

But this one's pretty good.

Where would you put this in the power rankings of the themes, Sassy?

Three.

Three.

Is that crazy?

yeah i got three i got him three as well i i got the

honestly like the nfl network one is my favorite with the bells which is kind of crazy the bells are nice yeah yeah sleep on the bells you know what let's um let's put this let's piece this together let's save this yeah stick a pin in it yeah stick a pin in it but anyway cbs uh this was reported on Wednesday

that they unveiled their game announcer.

Not reported, they just tweeted about it.

CBS Sports PR.

CBS unveils game announcer lineup for 2025.

And let's see.

Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.

News came out that Tiki Barber is out, which is, I could say this because Tiki's a former NFL superstar, handsome guy.

He's got other jobs.

He's got a twin.

He's got a twin.

I believe they're close.

Untold millions in the bank.

I don't think he was very good as a game analyst.

And I do not weep that he is going to WFAN in a more enhanced role, I think, covering the Giants, part of their coverage of that football team.

But anyway, so Tiki's out.

So who's in?

And what other changes are coming in the group?

The big one is the number two team, Mark.

And I know this is bittersweet because

Ion Eagle and Evan Washburn

on the sideline are now going to be joined by J.J.

Watt, Watt, who moves into the number two spot.

He steps in for Charles Davis, who gets dropped to the number four team with Andrew Catalon, Jason McCordy.

Your thoughts on that?

Now, let me just add that Charles Davis, CD, our old colleague in NFL Media, and one of the great dudes, just a really nice guy who's always supportive of our show.

It likes Charles Davis.

He's going to become the lead dog at college,

the CBS college coverage.

So

he's fine.

But I guess they want to kind of phase him out of the NFL coverage on some level here.

Okay, so if that's what's happening, and if he's happy with the college spot, which he's like, one of the, he stands out among many of the people that we're looking at in general, like when on these announcing teams, is he deeply knows these players in their college careers.

And I think he, you know, you would just talk to him in our office and like, he's a great guy, but he is deeply embedded in knowledge.

So my first thing was like, I kind of wanted him on the number two team with, they've got Kevin Harlan with Trent Green.

I've always had a little bit of a problem with the Trent Green ranking there, but I want Davis and Harlan together, but I like Ion Eagle.

The whole thing is like JJ Watt.

It's another one of these.

We just don't know how this is going to go, but we're going to elevate you above everyone.

This seems to happen once a year.

And I don't find J.J.

Watt to be a particularly controversial or alluring verbal personality, but prove me wrong.

Yeah, obviously they love the big names and J.J.

Watt's one of of the biggest names, and they're trying to

get the most bang for their buck after he did some studio work for them last year.

But here's the way to look at it, Mark, and other fans, and actually Justin, while we're here.

Like, if you're a fan of an

AFC team that is not one of the premier teams or, you know, expected to be in a lot of like high-profile games, that means you're going to get more Charles Davis.

You're going to get a lot of Catalan, Davis, and McCordy.

You also got to be ready, though, Cesi, especially as as Browns fans.

You got to be ready for a lot of Spiro Didas and Adam Archoletta.

I mean,

this is how it's been for.

I mean, yeah, we, and I, and I, I, you know, they're doing the best they can, but the Browns seem to have the same four or five announcers' tops all year long.

And they don't play us.

They play, I think, every single game at 1 p.m.

Eastern this year.

It's one of those type of slates.

Yeah, yeah, similar.

I think all of our three of our teams are in the similar boat there.

And be ready, Justin.

You're going to have some Beth Mallins coming your way.

So it's going to actually play

a handful.

Oh, yeah.

Love Beth Mallens.

Titans actually played a handful of games

in that 3 p.m.

central window this year, which is kind of nice because that's atypical.

We got zero primetime games, but not all.

We're not a full noon slate this year, which is cool.

Coup d'état.

Great.

Great.

Yeah.

Get ready.

It's Mallon's time.

Hell yeah.

All right.

And that's what's happening in the news.

Again, power rankings on Thursday.

And then, of course, anything else that's cooking and training camps across our league.

And you know what?

I think we've been teasing it long enough.

We will discuss the Netflix program quarterbacks.

And maybe even I'll talk a little bit about Happy Gilmore 2.

I'm going to.

You know what?

I was like, is there any way for me to talk about Happy Gilmore 2 on the podcast?

And it makes sense.

Yeah, Travis Kelsey is a waiter in it, and he's in it for 47 seconds.

So now it's an NFL story.

I'm going to talk my my thoughts on Gilmore 2 and quarterbacks.

In addition to us doing power rankings, Mark, pinch yourself, baby.

I will go watch those 47 seconds to

prepare.

All right.

Very well.

Very well, indeed.

Thank you again to James Palmer.

And until next time, heed the call.

Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company.

They're one of America's largest financial services companies.

Like, how I'm more than Saquon Barkley, the NFL's reigning leading rusher, I'm also the NFL's leading husher.

Hush up back there.

Wow, I might have just set the hushing record.

Well, almost.

For your insurance and financial needs, nationwide is on your side.

Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Ember Finrick, Columbus, Ohio.