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The Heat the Cup Podcast

has returned back to work, creeps!

Hey,

welcome

to Heed the Call.

I am Dan Hanses

with my buddy, my colleague,

my co-host, Mark Sessler.

Hey, bud.

How was your break?

Well, it was, it was, uh, it was human.

I'd categorize it as human.

Like, um...

Oh, boy.

Nuts.

Well, no, I came back.

It's a classic alien mistake to categorize something as human is not something that humans would say you know that's just a heads up to any aliens that that might be pretending to be human podcasters out there how you heard the show start is not how you would want to do it if you were trying to assimilate into human culture well a big benefit for them uh it's a good tip from a real podcaster like yourself um came back like caught a what i don't know if i caught or how i just like i had an incredible flu situation for like three or four days where I was just like nestled under sheets

feeling hallucinogenic

you know other people are vacationing left and right they're going on all sorts of like road trips like I was a disaster so you know maybe maybe it was karmic we had a big I don't know if it was karmic mark we had a big week in New Orleans ahead of the Super Bowl licks and a lot of glad handing and good times were ahead so I'm sorry that that happened to you

well how is yours by the way way?

Like, why would we, like, I should be giving and ask you

what you were up to.

It was fine.

I enjoyed a few days off to recharge the batteries.

It does remind me, Mark, how much I love what we do because I was excited to get to work,

get back to work and do the show again and connect with the audience.

And on that note, before we get into everything, we're going to bring in Connor and we're going to talk about some news that's gone down since we last did the show Super Bowl Sunday night.

And we're going to talk about what we're really invested in as the offseason offseason kicks off in earnest.

But yeah, we did we did plan to start the show a little earlier today.

Um,

you know, our producer, I don't know if the audience knows this, our producer, Justin Graver, moved to Texas over the weekend.

Uh, a little bit sudden.

We weren't, we didn't know this was something that was going to happen so, so quickly, but it did, and as is his right.

Um, but from an administrative standpoint, Mark, um, you and I should have a quick conversation.

Um, the show, as you know, was supposed to start start at 9 a.m.

Pacific.

It is 10 minutes to 11.

There were some certain delays that Justin.

We'd be done by now.

Like, I'd be set out into the wild, and here we are doing, we're toiling.

And I can see it as no other, you know, it's a sign, although we are supportive of Justin's move from Los Angeles to Texas to be closer to family and start a life with his beautiful fiancé.

At the same time, it does feel like an immediate testing of boundaries boundaries to move the show around the way he did.

So

I'm going to bring in Justin here.

And I know the way we kind of typically operate is like this good cop, bad cop.

I think maybe to keep him on his toes here, I want you to play bad cop.

Oh, which is not normally my, I'd be typically like, I'd be nice.

Like, I want to.

Yeah.

I emotionally fondle.

I wouldn't say fondle, but emotionally, you know,

be kind.

But

I get what's happening.

So you play bad cop.

Okay.

I'll play good cop.

And let's make sure he he understands what's what.

Justin, can you jump in?

Second.

Hey, Dan.

How's it going?

Great.

How's everything in Texas, man?

I'm really happy for you.

Thanks.

Everything's good.

It's pretty cold here, but it's really nice.

Our house is big,

three times the size-ish of our apartment in L.A.

for less rent.

So we're

really happy for you.

Yeah, I'm really excited that you're able to purchase

property in our country.

Well, I live in an apartment that's that's on the seventh floor of like a building that probably will get taken out by an earthquake.

Do you feel on any level that you've been, was your move selfish on any level?

Can we just start there?

Let's just get right to the.

Yeah.

Well, first of all, we are renting, so we didn't buy the house.

We're renting a house.

But second of all, yes.

Justin, can you jump out a second?

Can you just jump out one second?

Sure, sure, sure.

I don't have a sound for that, but.

Hey, Mark.

Yeah.

Was I too...

Did I get too dark?

Well, yeah, because you're more attacking him for moving.

Oh.

This is more

like a.

About the show.

Yeah,

it's more we want to talk to him about

from an employee-employer type scenario.

It's a,

let's call it,

let's look at it as something like just a disciplinary review.

Okay.

So let's not get it.

Even when we switch good cop, bad cop, you have to school me on how to be a bad cop.

So I appreciate that being a bad thing.

Let's bring Justin back in.

There we go.

Justin, can you jump back in?

Hey.

Hey, what's up?

Mark wanted to talk to you.

Justin, do you, like, does it weigh on you on any level that we had to start the show?

Well, it's 10.54 a.m.

and we were going to start at 9 a.m.

Does it weigh on you that your own personal values and value system and life somehow had us start the show this late?

Yes, I'm extremely apologetic.

You know, I never planned on delaying the show like this and affecting your guys' lives.

I know, Mark, your day is totally thrown off.

You were going to go do so many things after this, and now you're two hours delayed, and I just feel terrible about it.

And just know, Justin, like, I totally get it.

Like, life gets in the way sometimes.

I understand the mover showed up late.

I have no issues at all.

I wasn't frustrated at all about it this morning.

See, I was going to say that, but I didn't want to make any excuses.

You know, like, I own this.

It's on me.

Right, right, right.

So, but yeah, just try to, you know, stick to the schedule here.

Now we're in different time zones moving forward.

Mark, anything else before we close this uh we live in a scot-free world you just get away with whatever it happens it's like oh yeah look at me I'm a I've I have a salary like but like how about the the concept that you know again we're talking about it's not only that it's it's not just Dan and myself and Connor who's on the East Coast it's already deep into the afternoon for Connor and I we haven't even discussed these kids are sitting outside the school waiting to be picked up they got out right probably an hour ago and and but the but also Justin have you I would just ask you does it weigh on you that the listener, thousands of listeners, assuming the tens of thousands of thousands.

Tens of thousands, like the show arrives much later into their earpieces, into their sockets.

Yes, I feel terrible for the listeners, especially because they've been waiting over a week since the Super Bowl episode.

And now it's like they have to wait a couple hours extra.

It's terrible.

And I just feel like I've really ruined the return of Heed the Call, the first episode of, is this season two now?

I don't know, but the first episode of whatever we're doing now, and it's like, what can I do?

I just have to try to make it up to you guys.

All right.

Well, you know, I got your back at all times.

You know that.

And all right, with that, without further ado, yeah, we did mention the man is here, Connor Orr.

Sorry, man.

Sorry about your kids.

Sorry about your family.

Yeah, it's fine.

I've just been here for 45 minutes, you know.

But

Jesus Christ.

It's like like whatever podcast Connor does, he's just sitting around waiting.

What's up, Conman?

This is

great to kick off the offseason shows with you.

There is no offseason in the NFL, of course.

In fact, the two-week NFL franchise tag window opened up today, Tuesday, runs until 4 p.m.

on March 4th.

And I guess we'll touch on that.

But how are you feeling about this particular NFL offseason?

You've been through many of them.

I feel really good about this one mostly because I'm not going to be a very large part of it, which is great.

Paternity leave is kind of lining up here with

kind of a truncated paternity because I don't really take it traditionally.

Like I just take a couple of weeks, but maybe that couple weeks covers like the most annoying part of it, which to me is like pre-free agency.

which I really don't like and

the combine, you know, so

that kind of stuff.

I can kind of see that.

So do you know for sure sure you're going to have a child, and that's a wonderful, that's an incredible news.

Like, do you know for certain that you're not having like twins?

If another one was hidden in there at this point, it would, it would be an all-world stunner.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's always.

Yeah.

All right.

So.

We're all back together.

Ain't it grand?

Ain't it grand.

Let's get caught up with what we missed since we've been gone.

There's Landon Davison.

All I gotta say is go fucking burn.

We apologize for that.

But he is obviously enjoying the moment there.

Box 29 in Philadelphia.

Last Friday was the championship parade for the Philadelphia Eagles after they demolished the Chiefs in Super Bowl licks.

It is funny, like those

parades, and,

everyone does it.

I mean, no one ever was drunker than Tom Brady after he won the Bucs Super Bowl on the Bay there in Tampa.

And it's just like a celebration of like, here are all your football heroes, literally as drunk as humanly possible in public, shouting obscenities on live television.

In fact, let's play the back half of that click because I like how this

Philly News guy covers

just the whole thing, everything about what Landon Dickerson's vibe is like as he storms down the street like Peak Chris Varley.

So we apologize for the language.

It's live TV and it happens.

It's what happens.

Players are prioritized.

Yep.

He's got some Bud Light.

What is that t-shirt as well?

Is it a Saquon Barkley t-shirt?

Oh, he's still...

He just shotgun a Miller Light.

He's like, he's very newsman.

He corrects himself.

No, it's not a Bud Light.

It's a Miller Light.

Binge drinking.

It's huge.

Do we need to apologize for curse words on television anymore?

Like, haven't we gotten to the point where our threshold is like, even my most elderly relatives now routinely watch Netflix documentaries where people are bludgeoned to death with like hammers.

And so is the F-word really something that's going to jump-start us at this point?

I've started with my sons.

I'm getting a little looser with the language around them because, you know, they're getting older.

And,

you know, while I try to be careful, things will slip out more, and I don't feel so bad about it.

That's, you know, it's part of language, part of communication, Mark.

Well, I'd agree.

I think to Connor's point, it feels very throwback-y, doesn't it?

Like, it's very much News Guy from 1980.

He grew up watching News Guy in 1988, and so he's being news guy from 80 gate.

And kids are like, What are you talking about?

Like, I'm in third grade.

People are throwing down the F word left and right, like in third grade.

My daughter's assigned seat on the bus just says F, like F-U-C-K, Y-O-U.

Like, it's just spelled out.

And every day she comes home, she's like trying to crack the code in terms of like what it is.

And I'm like, man, it's really going to suck when you learn to spell.

Let's get into it.

Let's start with the

Bengal.

You know, this is a big offseason for the Cincinnati Bengals.

They had a very disappointing 2024 season, obviously.

You know, it doesn't take an expert to know that Joe Burrow or someone that's that's been studying the team closely to understand that Joe Burrow is paying very close attention to what Cincinnati does at this kind of

fork in the road moment for the organization, now a few years removed from the Super Bowl, some dark years in terms of no playoffs.

And Jeremy Fowler of ESBN reported that the Bengals will attempt, that's the key word here, attempt to sign three key players to long-term deals, receiver Jamar Chase, receiver T.

Higgins, defensive end Trey Hendrickson.

They tried to sign Jamar Chase last year, of course, didn't get it done.

That feels like the one that's the safest to do.

But the other ones, it's very much up in the air.

And Connor, with this story, it's like, first of all, if you pay out all this superstar money, and the Higgins one is the one that really jumps out to me because you know he could fetch a ton of money on the free agent market.

This might create a top-heavy team and not a better team.

That would be my concern.

But you also have to navigate Joe Burrow, who's made it very clear that I want these guys back.

It's a little bit of a rock and a hard play scenario for Cincinnati management.

Yeah, and I think it bothers me on two different levels.

First of all, Cincinnati is already sixth in the NFL in cap-allocated dollars to the wide receiver position.

They spend more in salary cap dollars than the Philadelphia Eagles on their offensive line, and they have one of the worst run-block win rates in the NFL.

That's where this money needs to go.

At some point this offseason, they have to find a running game.

They have to find toughness or else it's not going to matter.

When Joe Burrow drops back, he can have some of these magical games with Jamar Chase.

But the way teams play defense now, umbrella-heavy-style defenses, it's not going to matter unless you can punch out opponents and they have no physicality whatsoever.

And I'll say this too.

You want all of your salary cap money now to be tied up from quarterback, two wideouts, and now a defensive end hitting his age 30 season.

Like that makes no sense.

And the only other thing I'll say to that is pay attention to how it came out.

And no disrespect to any reporter at all.

I'm not trying to complain in that way, but the fact that it's being leaked out is the Bengals want to sign all three of these guys probably to me means it's not individual agent driven.

It's being leaked from the team.

And that's the opening volley in this, right?

Where it's like, well, we want them back,

but it's up to them.

And so they're kind of setting the table on this.

Like, I would love to go to the grocery store and buy milk for 95 cents, but like it's up to the grocery store in terms of what they charge for it.

Well, I think you're so right that they are

paying elegant positions.

And what do the Eagles teach us?

And what have they taught us for years?

That like you build up both lines and you go beat people up.

And the Bengals have a lot of money in their O-line because there were two, it was a couple of off-seasons ago when they went and like went free agent heavy on linemen to build a this is a Joe Burrow had nine was sacked nine times in a playoff win against Justin's Titans.

I would would say this, though, also.

You've got Joe Burrow once in your franchise history.

Like you're never going to, it's possible you go another hundred years and not have a quarterback the equal of Joe Burrow.

So like I want to do what he wants them to do.

But I also think if you're the Bengals, like you're, you're right that you've got a team build in a way that actually wins games late in the season.

But do you let T.

Higgins go?

I don't know about that.

Like I think you've got to find a way to get these guys tied up and get it done for Joe Burrow.

It might be crazy, but I think that's the easiest decision they have to make because if Burrow is one of the top five quarterbacks, and I think almost everyone agrees, and he's smack in the middle of his prime, you don't need to give a quarterback at that level, to me, elite wide receivers on both sides.

Give him one and then build, you know, through the draft, find value.

There are a lot of veteran wide receivers out there that could be a very good number two at a quarter of the cost potentially of what Higgins could command on the open market where he can get between 30 and 40 million.

And I love T.

Higgins, but you're going to pay ⁇ that smells a little bit to me like Kenny Galladay going from the Lions to the Giants and paying a guy to be a super duper star when that's not who he is.

So is there a way to improve the entire team without tying up all your money in two wide receivers

and a defensive star entering his 30s?

Yeah, I think there might be a smarter way to do that, but I don't know if that's what Burrow wants.

And this is a team that is scarred by what happened with Carson Palmer, their last generational quarterback, who asked out of town.

And there's just this fear, and we'll see if it's a real fear, that that could happen again if they don't handle this right.

Speaking of veteran quarterbacks that are unhappy, Aaron Rodgers.

He's unhappy because he's out of a job.

The Jets announced this last week, it came out, that they are out on Rodgers after two seasons and 12 and 22 mark in those two years with Rodgers.

Pretty devastating for the organization when you look back at what the Jets invested in Rodgers.

In terms of cash, this was a good job by Rich Samini of ESBN.

Woody Johnson shelled out more than $111 million for the four players that were kind of Rogers Inc., which is obviously Rogers, $75 million, Alan Lazard, Devontae Adams, Randall Cobb.

They combined to play only 66 games.

The Jets, from a salary cap standpoint, will get stuck with $64 million in dead charges.

Rogers at $49 million on his own.

And Mark, the thing that really jumps out to me about this Rodgers situation is I wonder if Aaron Rodgers is capable of.

I know he talks a lot about introspection and all that stuff, but the Jets desperately need a quarterback right now,

whether that's a guy that they could see as that could get him to the playoffs or just to hold the fort while they figure some things out.

And they had Rodgers on their roster.

They don't gain any real financial flexibility by getting rid of him now.

They're going to get killed for the next two years, cap-wise.

And they still decided they didn't want to be in business with him anymore.

And what does that mean?

Like,

why would the Jets run away from you at this moment?

Because you did some things to really

tick people off inside the building.

And there was a report out there that

the Jets did have the conversations with Rodgers ahead of the final decision.

That was a face-to-face conversation that they were moving on.

Diana Rossini reported that they didn't want him to do any outside media such as the Pat McAfee show.

They wanted him to be at all mandatory practices, no exceptions in the offseason program.

And the fact that they even had to have these conversations kind of gives you the idea of why the Jets walked away and why other teams might not want to get in business with Rodgers because is it worth it at this point, the trouble that he brings with him at this stage of his career?

Yeah, I think it's just, it has so much to do with the personality of the quarterback and the fact that you signed up knowing that Aaron Rodgers was going to command incredible power inside the organization.

But if you're going to get the Aaron Rodgers that we expected, and I think you did to some degree last season, he was a good quarterback, but like you would have signed up for that.

But Aaron Glenn comes in and I think he has made it very clear that like...

Ego versus ego, we're not doing this and we're not going to have Aaron Rodgers as part of this and he's not going to run the show and run the team and run the front office.

And I actually

like initially was like, keep them because it's, I don't know if there's been a worse offseason to get a quarterback because you're not getting Sam Darnold back.

Like that makes no sense.

Like it's very hard to go find someone, but like Rodgers to me does not make sense because like Aaron Glenn wants to come in and completely recreate the organization and as he should.

as he should.

And like I'm kind of like I'm on board with it because I think

you're starting over from scratch and like that's fine.

But like where do where do you get the quarterback?

I don't know because I think it's it's they're not in the thoughts sess dog.

We're going to get to to that a little bit later.

Connor,

they're not in a draftable position, but Connor,

I'm on board with this.

I think this was a fresh move for the Jets.

Well, you flip-flopped on this one.

I did, I did.

I absolutely did.

I absolutely did.

I absolutely did.

But Aaron Glenn, the personality of Aaron Glenn and what he said right away, it made me think like there was no chance that Aaron Rodgers would stay here.

It interests me because even at the end of the season and just talking to people there, you know,

you heard this kind of noise from the the outside being like, oh, they're just tired of him.

That wasn't the, that kind of wasn't the vibe that I was getting.

Like, I think in an interpersonal sense, he's very well liked in that locker room.

And I thought like everyone kind of, you know, the ancillary stuff just kind of blows over people's heads because honestly, all players do crazy shit on.

in their spare time in media.

Like Sauce Gardner was burning cheese heads in his fire pit, if people remember during his rookie season.

It's not like these guys aren't all doing strange stuff in their free time.

And so to me, it was interesting in that if you're Aaron Glenn, why not meet him eye to eye?

And really, if the, you know, why care about what he says?

Like, he's going to say dumb stuff on TV all the time.

What you're doing is you're getting rid of 30 touchdowns to 11 interceptions.

And you're getting rid of a team that actually, I looked at like their drive-by drive stats

this past year weren't all that bad.

I mean, they controlled the ball fairly well and you could build around that.

I just don't know, you know, so you're entirely punting on this season just because we wanted to be tough guys?

Like, I don't, I don't know.

I don't believe that, and I don't think it's the right thing to do.

Yeah, and that was my stance on it, that it made sense to bring him back.

But

the fact that they decided not to without any real plan B is either a foolish move by an organization that's made foolish moves for 50 years, but also, man, it really I think shines a light again on Rodgers because not everybody likes Rodgers inside that building.

Ask Jerry Wilson what he thinks about Aaron Rodgers.

But that he might just not be worth the trouble at this stage.

All right.

In other news, Travis Kelsey and the Chiefs obviously had a very difficult Super Bowl Sunday.

Got blown out.

The future Hall of Fame tight end was on his podcast.

He does it with his brother Jason, New Heights, and he talked about retirement and whether he is seriously considering it.

It's going to sting.

I know everybody wants to know whether or not I'm playing next year.

And right now, I'm just kicking everything down the road.

I'm kicking every can I can down the road.

And I'm not making any crazy decisions.

But right now,

the biggest thing is just

being there for my teammates and

being there for my coaches, understanding, you know, that there's a lot that goes into this thing.

You know, I've been fortunate over the past five, six years, I've played more football than anybody.

Yeah.

And And it's because the people that are in that building and

the fact that we keep going to these AFC championships and these Super Bowls, and that means I'm playing an extra three games more than everybody else in the entire league.

And that's a lot of wear and tear on your body.

And it's a lot of time spent in the building, focusing on your craft, focusing on the task at hand, every challenge that you set up for yourself.

And

that process can be grueling.

You know, nobody would blame Travis Kelsey if he walks away.

And he's got multiple rings and a lot of team records, and he's one of the best tight ends to ever play the game.

Connor, I'm curious.

One thing we didn't talk about on the Super Bowl Sunday show was, you know, Kelsey didn't have a good game.

Nobody really did, obviously, for the Chiefs against the Eagles.

But there was a lot.

that popped up on social media afterwards.

And we'll play one play in particular where Kelsey kind of gives up on a play.

I understand that a flag comes out on it, but it's not what you would expect effort-wise when you're down 27-0 in the third quarter of the Super Bowl.

There was another cut-up I saw, Connor, where it showed him just getting destroyed in terms of blocking assignments, where it just, and then some shots on the sideline where he just seemed to be mentally checked out, at least from the vantage point of Fox cameras,

by the end of the second quarter.

Like, does he have the fire to play?

And then there's a report out there that I just saw that the Chiefs do want Travis Kelsey back, but maybe kind of on their own terms, which includes taking a step back in terms of playing time and becoming more of a coach on the field.

This seems to be pointing to him walking away.

What do you think, Connor?

I wouldn't be surprised if like in June or July at some point, we get the insider report that he was.

physically not the same.

He was hurt.

Maybe he played through some sort of a muscle tear or something like that because it wasn't just the Super Bowl.

I mean, I think you could go back through every point during this season and there was just a shot of him on the sideline that looked like his favorite pet ran away.

And it was week after week.

And then you brought up the blocking, which kind of was really the thing on my radar.

And far be it from me to criticize someone having not played in the league, whatever, whatever, but it's like it looks, he looks slow out of his stance to me.

Like in the, and there were times when him and Pacheco would have Josh Sweat or one of these other guys and Sweat would just blow through both of them.

And you can't have, especially in an offense like that, that runs a lot of like 11 personnel, you can't have a tight end that's that much of a liability blocking anymore.

And I think the idea was for him to grow into this, you know, I've used this analogy before, but this kind of wise old pickup basketball player where he's setting screens and he's being the guy.

And he's done that before, but we didn't see it necessarily in the Super Bowl.

We saw it in glimmers during the playoffs, but I mean, this is the guy that knocked Andy Reid over in the goddamn Super Bowl last year.

And he just looks, he looks out of gas to me.

He just looks out of juice.

And that's natural.

I mean, this is a long career.

And yeah, I mean, we're talking about if you were to list the top 10 players that had their post-playing careers set up for them, he's one of them.

And we live in a world now where you're playing one of the most physical positions out there where blocking and destroying other people's bodies is part of what you do.

How many more years?

And why?

Because you already, like Dan, we literally lost podcast of the year to the Kelseys a year ago who were still playing football at that time.

It's like

right?

And like you're dating one of the most famous, incredible songstress individuals of our generation.

So like you already have the rest of your life.

And like we don't, we live in a world now.

And like we started to see this about 10 years ago where players were just retiring left and right early to save what would be like not the ill effects of brain damage and other stuff.

But if you're Kelsey, you've kind of achieved everything.

Like what does two or three more seasons do?

And are you that player?

So I think if you're him, you've got to be thinking.

You're looking at your own brother, who in one year off of the field has transitioned to one of the biggest NFL media stars around.

Like, you'd be there a year from now.

Do you need to keep doing this?

It's all about, yeah, love of the game at this point more than anything else, which I know he spoke of it leading up to the game in all the press engagements of how much he loved playing, how he intended to play longer.

But that kind of betrayed what we saw on the field on Sunday.

So let's see how it all plays out.

In any event, for the Chiefs to get to the end of the year.

He'd also come in here and probably clear the, he'd want to clean the rim out with us with his fist for discussing what he'd do with it.

What did we say?

We didn't say that.

Well, nothing negative, but it's like it's his decision.

But

I just think it's like players are leaving earlier than they ever have.

Yeah, he's not going to clean house.

I thought this was fair and balanced conversation.

And look at Connor's got a Fu Manchu.

He'd never really.

That's true.

He would respect that.

He'd respect that.

And Justin's little new setup, he'd respect that.

I like it.

I see that the Titans helmet made it.

One of the first things I had to set that up right away because I knew that it was very important to the gravitational pull of the show.

And there will be a lot more.

And the actual universe itself.

Right.

That's what I meant.

Yeah.

Do you remember during the COVID draft, everyone made fun of Zach Taylor doing it in like a spare bedroom in the house with absolutely no decor?

And that's what

Justin's setup looks like right now.

Yeah, you got a big blank canvas to work on, Justin, in your beautiful new home.

We're very happy for you.

And we're sorry about the conversation earlier, but just necessary stuff in terms of the business operation.

Well, thank you.

And I agree, and I understand.

Yeah.

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only.

Okay, back to the news.

Trevor Lawrence, another guy, like the Joe Burrow thing.

You're waiting for the Trevor Lawrence.

Jaguars

relationship to bear fruit in a tangible way.

It's been a rough couple of years for the organization.

And Lawrence himself has been injured.

There has been some speculation, scuttlebutt, perhaps, Connor, connecting Lawrence places like Pittsburgh.

The Steelers are desperate to find an answer quarterback at this point.

Here is Trevor Lawrence talking about he heard or was told about him being connected to the Steelers, but don't read into any of that.

That's funny.

I didn't really see anything.

My agent texted me and was, hey, this is a...

And then, of course, I saw it after.

He texted me and said, hey, this is a report that's out there.

I don't think there's anything to it, but I'll check into it.

So i saw it and it's funny though i when i when he sent it to me i was like you know i wouldn't say your heart drops but you're kind of like what like you think and then i'm like think about like what i can't even get i have no trade clause in my in my contract so i can't i wouldn't know about it if i was getting if i was getting traded or if that was something that was gonna happen you know i'd have to be on board with it so um which i'm not i'm happy here in jacksonville i plan on you know we want to win a super bowl here and you know i think i think we can do that um and i don't want to i don't want to leave jacksonville so i'm happy here Obviously, um, not going to Pittsburgh,

not going to Pittsburgh.

That's our old friend Kay Adams, the Up and Adams show.

Yep, yeah,

uh, what a great reporter.

Um, I mean, so you're Liam Cohen, you're gonna go to Jacksonville and then trade Trevor Lawrence, like I like, like, like, but when Connor says that he's gonna be able to skip a part of the offseason, um, for paternity leave, like this is the kind of stuff you want to skip.

This is completely ridiculous.

Yeah, well, how about this one then?

Let's look into this one.

Also, on Kay's show, good job by Kay Adams, who, as Mark Mark notes, is a great reporter.

Tyreek Hill, who at the end of the regular season made sure anybody within an earshot knew he wanted Adam Miami.

He told Kay that, listen,

I don't believe that actually.

I want to stay around.

This sounds like a guy that got yelled at by his agent.

Here you go.

Hit it, Justin.

You know, Tua, he's my guy.

Always will be my guy, no matter what.

And I'm sure he understands my frustration.

Like, we all want to win.

Tua, he's another competitor.

He's a hell of a competitor.

A lot of people don't know that.

He's a winner.

He's consistent.

He's wild.

So I'm looking forward to, you know, just us continuing to build our relationship, man, even more.

I love that.

And this is my public apology.

Is that what that is?

Please.

This is my public apology to you, Tua.

I love you, bro.

But take it.

I mean,

are you sort of wanting to say you're sorry to your team?

Oh, God.

Yeah.

Oh, God.

I mean, but they already know that, though.

Like, they know I'm not that kind of player, though.

I'm not.

A lot of people may say, oh, Rika's a hothead.

He's this, he's that.

But all my teammates know, bro.

Like, I come to work every day.

I bust my tail.

I show up the means on time.

You know what this agent said?

This agent said, hey, dumbass, do you want to be playing in New England

27 degrees by November in the snow?

Like, maybe Drake May's great, or maybe he's not.

Like,

you're 30 years old coming off your worst season.

You play in South Beach.

You have a beautiful house there.

Your girlfriend's there.

Your kids are there.

Multiple girlfriends.

Take your money, catch a bunch of passes from Tua that inflate your stats and shut it and go on Kay Adams' show and make it sound like that was a, like you were severed.

It was like severance and that that was your your Audi or your innie saying that you wanted out of Miami.

Your Audi wants nothing of the sort.

If we get to the point, Dan, where we're being interviewed by other people

like we're calling each other, he's my guy, you know that you're in, there's some stuff going on there.

Like,

there was more trope laden than I would have wanted from Tyreek Hill there, Connor.

You know, it's, I love these situations where I go back to Brandon Graham earlier in the year saying, oh, A.J.

Brown and Jalen Hurts hate each other.

And then a week later being like, I don't know what you guys are talking about.

And Tyreek Hill actually saying at the end of the season, yeah, I don't want to be here anymore.

And then a couple months months later on Kay Adams saying, all my teammates know I'm not that kind of guy.

Really?

All of them knew that when you said, I don't want to be here anymore, that you actually meant that you did want to be here.

I don't think that that's true.

Listen, if I am the Miami Dolphins, I am moving heaven and earth to get Tyreek Hill off my team this year, getting value in return for.

Send him to Cleveland.

You don't want anything to do with...

Yeah, that's another example.

Like this agent, like, do you want to go to Cleveland next year and catch passes from Jake Briskett?

Like,

this is a situation, a guy that turns 30 that can suck.

He could become the NFL version of Jimmy Butler in 2025 if the Dolphins don't offload his contract.

Well, you could still get value back.

That would make a lot of sense.

You still got Jalen Waddell there.

You still got offensive playmakers there.

You have an offensive coach that obviously has a good reputation for scheming up offense.

Like,

that would be my move.

The Saints officially hire Kellen Moore as their head coach.

Uh, they, they,

Benson, uh, Gail Benson said, hey, listen, this took a while because the Eagles kept winning in the playoffs, which I guess makes sense.

Uh, here's Kellen Moore in his opening presser on the future at quarterback for the Saints, Derek Carr.

What do you think about him when looking at his tape?

And do you view him as being the week one starter for this team with you as head coach?

Yeah, Derek's a tremendous quarterback in this league.

I've had so much respect for him, the journey that he's been on.

He's a starter in this league.

He's a premier player in this league.

He's had a great journey, obviously going from Fresno State to the Raiders and now here.

You know, really excited to team up with him and go through this process.

And so just like any player on this roster,

I just got here a few days ago and I'm excited to go through this journey with all of them.

Following up on Derek, do you view that as you guys have a decision to make at quarterback or do you view it as Derek Carr as a quarterback?

I view it as Derek Carr as the tremendous starting quarterback in this league.

We're fortunate to have him and we're excited to go through this process

as a ridiculous ride.

This reminds me of those combine press conferences that we've been to many times in Indianapolis when the GMs

can't really and the coaches can't really say anything and they just talk in these like kind of

we will not delete Sam Bradford.

Do you remember that?

Lesni said, we will not delete Sam Bradford and they fucking deleted him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that tell me what you think, Connor.

Derek Carr,

I think if the Saints had better options,

they would move heaven and earth to try to get him off the team.

I wonder if, because of their cap situation, because of the options on the outside, that they end up sticking with him for one more year as a hold the fort guy,

even if they don't necessarily want him on the team anymore.

It was a bad contract, ultimately.

Yeah, I think if I'm Kellen Moore, I want...

Derek Carr there because I don't think Derek Carr played poorly last season.

I think that there are a group of offensive coaches in the NFL that actually like him and that think that he's a whatever you want to call it top 12 a win-with passer in this league and so I think that makes the most sense.

Spencer Rattler was fun in stretches last year, but Kellen Moore understands this better than anyone.

Your reputation, the clock starts ticking on your reputation now.

And do you really want to do what Art Smith did?

And it's like, okay, yeah, I can make it work with Desmond Ritter.

Like, no, give me someone who's at least going to get the ball out on time and put it where I tell him to.

And he took one of the toughest coaching jobs

because you have the structure of the Saints.

With Mickey Loomis, he's more of a demigod inside of that organization.

Like,

it's not a typical GM who's accountable for the way that others are.

And, like,

what are the other options?

Like, again, it's this offseason where if you don't have a quarterback, if you do delete.

Derek Carr, like, what's your other option?

So, like, I think if you're Kellen Moore, like, Derek Carr is is one of the things you can cling to.

I would never want to be a fan of a team where Derek Carr is the quarterback, like, for a long, for a long period of time.

I would not, but I get if you're him, like, there's not a lot, there's a huge rebuild ahead.

And this job always concerned me because it's like, whoever takes it, do you survive what must to come over the next two or three or four years?

Does Kellen Moore survive that?

Do his skills show up?

And Derek Carr is one of the only things you have to hold on to.

I don't like it, but this is a weird team right now.

This is a very strange team.

Demi-God guy, huh?

I'm a demigod guy.

Well, I'll say it both ways.

Yeah.

You also used to say rebuild, but you just said rebuild.

So it just shows that you're constantly evolving linguistically.

Fluid.

Can I say one thing about the Saints?

I've always seen you as a fluid individual.

Nor have I, so I don't know why I just said that.

Yes, Connor.

I would say this.

One thing about the Saints, every person that I talked to during the start of the head coaching search listed that as the worst available job.

And I thought they did a really nice job of keeping Sky Rizzi on the hook just in case, right?

Because he didn't take that Broncos job until, what, two days ago?

And they kept him on the hook.

And then they just waited out the playoffs.

And no other team was willing to do that.

All of a sudden, when the Saints are the only job available, it starts to look pretty good.

You have your choice of the six to eight best coordinators.

theoretically in the NFL by the time you get to the end of that process.

I thought that was pretty smart by them.

It's a roll of the dice.

You had Sky Rizzi in your back pocket.

That was fortunate.

Well said.

Yeah.

All right.

Lastly, in the news,

you have.

This is a story.

By the way, I got some stupid tweets about this.

Like, why are you hiding from the Justin Tucker story?

No, dummy.

We weren't hiding from the story.

Like, I love Justin Tucker so much, we're not going to talk about this.

It broke in the middle of a Super Bowl week where we were having these fun shows at the Heat House, and

then we went on a break after the Super Bowl, and that's the way it is.

There's nothing to run from.

In fact, it's something that we should talk about because this is the greatest kicker in NFL history, in my opinion, and in the opinion of many others, seeing his career disappear now over some allegations that are very similar in nature to what Deraille

Deshaun Watson's career.

Ravens kicker Justin Tucker.

The number of individuals accusing him of inappropriate behavior during massage therapy sessions has reached 16 now.

And Tucker has previously, before the latest round of accusers came through the last couple of days, he had previously issued a strong, complete denial.

The Ravens issued a statement last month.

You know, this was all reporting that came from the Baltimore banner leading to, obviously, this bombshell that has rocked the Ravens organization.

A Ravens organization, if you're old enough to remember, that has dealt with unsavory conduct involving their players.

Ray Rice and the fallout from his domestic violence incident with his then-girlfriend was a black mark on the Ravens, quite frankly, before they decided to cut ties with him.

And now it just, for me, Mark, it's just a matter of when they say goodbye to Justin Tucker, because I'm not here to tell you whether or not this happened or not.

But 16 accusers is a lot of accusers.

There's a lot of smoke here.

And not for nothing, and and you could talk about this as in a football story about football and what happens on the field.

Tucker hasn't been the best of the best for a couple of years now, which makes me think this is a very easy goodbye, Justin Tucker.

Figure out what you got going on on your own accord.

Yeah, I mean,

from a football angle, that was my first thought.

Do we ever see him again on the field?

Not that I need to.

I just, I don't know.

With things like this, I just wonder what was going through his mind and his consciousness for years and years while this was not, no one knew about this.

And now we know.

And like,

it's, it shouldn't be treated as redundant or less stunning because it's so similar to what another player revealed that he went through and what he put other people through.

And so I.

You're gone, I think.

I think you're gone.

Like, you can't do this.

Like, you can't, in today's society, you can't get away with this and keep playing.

And I, I,

I wonder if it happened a couple of years ago, if it would have been treated differently.

But because his skills have faded to some degree, is it easier for the Ravens to say goodbye?

It shouldn't be easier or harder at all.

The fact that

it's a kicker makes it less of an A1 story than when a similar situation arose with Deshaun Watson, obviously, where it was the biggest story in sports for a while there, Connor.

And this is all the allegations

from 2012 to 2016, early in his career with the Ravens.

And he said nobody really knew about it.

The other part of the story, it's just pretty crazy that people started digging up things that were being sent out on social media, whether it was Reddit or Twitter, that Tucker was involved in some similar things, but it just didn't hit the mainstream until this stuff became public.

Yeah, and all these teams have, and I recognize, by the way, I should have double-checked the rundown.

I'm not dressed really or appearing as someone who should be commenting on inappropriate behavior at this point.

Like, I look like I'm on some sort of a watch list somewhere.

But

all these teams have.

You look like you're like, you tried out for Duck Dynasty to be one of the guys on the boat or whatever, and they're like, nah, not quite, but come back next week.

I feel like you look inappropriate, though.

Like, I'll shield you.

Certainly not in relation to the conversation we're having right now.

But yeah,

slightly disheveled, but still, we love you.

You're our Connor.

Okay.

Well, appreciate that.

All these players, all these teams have security professionals whose job it is to comb through all of this stuff and to keep the team ownership informed and to get them out of these adverse situations.

I'm wondering exactly when the Ravens started to get hip to this stuff.

Because, like you said, you know, they read Twitter, they read Reddit, they read all this stuff because that's part of their business and they deal with all these players.

I'm sure Justin Tucker saw it and brought it to them.

If he did, I don't know if that's true or not.

But at the end of the day,

the Ravens can just announce their intention to move on with

Justin Tucker because even if you have to make it a post-June 1 cut in order to save a certain amount of money, the Jets have already come out and said, hey, we're not going to have Aaron Rodgers, but that transaction does not officially log for another couple of weeks.

You're not breaking any rules.

If John Harbaugh really believes in his heart of hearts that Justin Tucker didn't do this,

I don't know.

Is that the reason that they're holding on?

But if it's just, if we're waiting for the administrative part of it to take place, Every other team can has long in advance announced their intentions to cut players at this time of year, and you're very much free to do so.

And let's be real.

The Ravens have a terrible track record with this shit.

I mean, I remember

after saying that they had a zero tolerance policy for Deshaun Watson.

Right.

And after, you know, early in our time at NFL.com, just a horrible story involving Terrell Suggs and domestic violence with a partner at the time came out.

And I think that guy, he never left the team.

And this was pre-Ray Rice when it was a different landscape.

I think he's in their ring of honor now.

The Ray Rice situation, they dragged their feet on that situation until that video leaked of him walloping his girlfriend in an elevator.

And that's when they acted.

And now, so it doesn't surprise me, despite what John Harbaugh says about how tough they are, that they're dragging their feet on this.

And what's it going to take?

Is it going to take something similarly

irrefutable for them to actually say goodbye to Tucker?

I don't think Tucker ever kicks in the league again.

I think Tucker was going to go to the Hall of Fame.

I think that's all out the window.

And

obviously,

if these allegations are true, he kind of gets what's coming to him.

He deserves what's coming to him.

And to Connor's point, they knew this for maybe almost 10 years.

Certainly possible.

And we'll see what comes out because I'm sure there's a lot of digging with investigative reporting around this situation.

Let's hit 8 o'clock to light.

The Dolphins, we mentioned the Tyreek Hill situation.

They're doing some work on their roster.

They released cornerback Kendall Fuller, running back Raheem Mostert, and tight end Durham Smythe.

The 49ers, we're hearing, have no intention of letting quarterback Brock Purdy hit the open market.

Mark, your thoughts on that?

Makes total sense for the Niners.

I don't know why they ever would suggest moving on from Brock Purdy for what else this offseason, once again.

I'm a property on top of the market quarterback money, but I think that's what it's going to cost to keep him.

But I think it's a harder decision than perhaps

you stay, Mark.

Well, I think also the cap, we're learning that teams can look like they're in cap situations and contract hell, and they're not.

You can push money down the road.

I don't move on from Brock Purdy at all.

Absolutely not.

The Bengals, we mentioned them,

linebacker Jermaine Pratt requests a trade.

He led the team in tackles last season.

The Steelers in a cost-cutting move partways with linebacker Preston Smith.

The Cowboys, who are making changes, obviously, in their coaching staff under Schottenheimer, hire Ken Dorsey as their pass-game specialist.

And the Packers hire Luke Goetze as senior offensive assistant.

Matt Patricia's back

to OSU as their defensive coordinator.

Matt Patricia.

And finally, a report: Netflix wants a Sunday afternoon NFL package.

Connor Orr.

I mean, it's just, it's not going to work.

I have one game on the laptop, and then I have one game on the TV.

And then if you're going to throw another fing thing in here, it's not going to, I can't juggle it.

I can't look at that many.

Yeah, how does this affect Connor Orr?

destroyer?

Adventures in cable television.

Because what's going to happen is the

streamer ore man is going to come and swipe away from CBS or Fox.

And then you're up shit's creep, bro.

I mean,

we had it.

We had the ideal situation, which was like, I press five and I go to the game on five.

And then I press two and I go to the game on two.

Now I got to go, I got to hit the Netflix button and then I got to press Netflix and then I got to X out of Netflix and then I got to go from HDMI one to HDMI two and then I have to turn on the cable box and then I have to hit five.

That's like eight.

Hey Connor, how's your buffering?

What's your internet connection?

Probably not great.

You know?

What if there's a storm rolling into Jersey?

Do I look like a guy who lives in a place with a stable internet connection?

This is

inevitable.

This is the way things are going to go.

I watched, you know, I grew up on Saturday Night Live.

We watched the many of us watched the 50th anniversary show on Sunday night.

Lauren Michaels is 80 years old.

You don't think Lauren Michaels, once he eventually steps away from that, whether

SNL, is that going to survive on broadcast television or is that just going to get taken or some type of competition will arise outside the universe to take away SNL from broadcast television and you're going to lose the games?

The bunny ears are under assault, Connor.

The bunny ears, Connor.

I would say that the one good thing about all of this, eventually, when this all eats itself alive, is that 24-hour cable news will be destroyed because no one is going to actively seek that out.

The only people who watch that are ones who accidentally stumble upon it during the day.

And so, and it's on like at the gym when you're on the Peloton.

So I think that's a lot of

people older than us that that's basically what they just watch about 18 hours a day.

Jesus.

Where does greed temper itself?

It doesn't.

When I read this story,

this is one of the most annoying developments around.

The idea that I am already having to watch 22 games at the same time and I have to have a Netflix screen open to watch some other dumb game.

Well, it's not like I think they would take the idea, I think is that they would take away the package from one of the the broadcast baddies.

Which one?

That seems replicated.

Yeah, I mean, over.

I mean, they're not taking it from Fox just paid $400 million to have Tom Brady broadcast games for the next year.

I don't care.

Maybe I'm crazy.

I don't care about that.

I could shake my fist at the sky on this one, but they have proven that they could host these streaming events without a lot of technical difficulties.

I didn't notice anything with the Christmas games, for instance, with Netflix.

You are right about that.

It's not a technological annoyance on my behalf in terms of how well it will stream.

It's just that it's like we're already, you know,

you've got YouTube TV open.

You've got Station X open.

Now you have Netflix open.

Like, who am I?

Am I just like an informational droid in taking, you know, non-stop?

You've got some big dad energy going on right now, Cecily.

Well, sorry.

And also, by the way, SNL50, no Dana Carvey.

Like, what is going on with, like...

I knew that would be on your radar.

Well, I don't, I would say.

You love yourself, some Carvey.

I have looked up non-stop since to find out why that.

I don't know if you watch this, Connor, but like a couple main characters were not involved.

And Carvey had been talking on his wonderful show for weeks about being on it and then he doesn't appear.

What happened?

I mean, one of the, like, you could argue that he's had

two or three of the most important characters in the history of that show.

He is a top three SNL

figure.

Am I being too generous there, Dan?

What do you think?

Because I think he's a top three.

I wouldn't put him in the top three.

I wouldn't even put him ahead of Mike Myers, but that's not to take away anything from Carvey, carvey who i think is definitely in the top 10 or 15 i would put him he's got to be on the he's got to be on that show top 15 yeah there's been like a thousand cast members that's i know but if you were to look at top if you were to look at like you know well there's different generations of it but if you were to look at like the most impactful characters i believe he is easy top three top five

i did read some discourse around this they because remember there's been if you go back on snl they did an snl

10th anniversary special 15th anniversary special, 25th anniversary special, 40th anniversary special.

Yeah.

And especially on the you know, the prior two or three, Carvey was prominently involved.

40th was what we're talking about, I think.

That was just a cupcake for the Carvey fans.

It was 40th.

Right.

And so this one was more focusing on the last 25 years, which is fair too.

They've a lot of stuff.

Anyway,

yes, Justin.

Will Farrell.

Sorry.

Will Farrell, Chris Farley, Adam Sandler.

Come on.

Dana Carvey doesn't crack that group, does he?

Adam Sandler's not top three.

Justin, how old are you?

You're 32?

33?

How old are you?

32.

I'll be 33 in a couple of weeks.

Do you, I'm curious because we're all older than you.

Do you care about Saturday Night Live?

It strikes me that SNL is a very,

for people born, you know, between 1970 and 1985 or even 90 or so, like

an important show.

But for people that are in their early 30s and younger, maybe it doesn't hold the same pull.

I would say nowadays I do not watch, I don't watch or care about Saturday Night Live hardly at all.

But when I was growing up, I watched a lot.

Like it was an every week viewing for me from

it's a much more crowded space now.

Like when I, when I watched it grow, like in eighth grade in 1987, 88, like, there's nothing else on television.

And it also was edgy and different than anything else.

Now it's not.

I would say end of the Andy Samberg era was sort of when I tuned out.

Okay.

Thank you, Justin.

Let's take a break and then talk about what we're invested in this offseason.

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All right, we're back.

Who would be ahead of Dana Carvey, Mark?

Just taking a look at the list.

You got to put Eddie Murphy ahead of him.

I would put Hartman ahead of him.

Bill Murray is before my time.

I would put Hader just a touch ahead of him.

Will Farrell, I would put ahead of him.

Okay, well, it's certainly like down to taste, but like

he's in the back end.

He's like, he's on the right side of the Dalton line,

if that helps.

More than that.

I love Carve.

I put Myers ahead of him, as I said.

Farley, maybe?

Carvey may be the best impressionist.

of the last 50 years.

I love Carvey.

And he wasn't a movie star.

He wasn't like a big movie star.

He didn't go do, you know,

Adam Saylor type stuff.

But like, talk about a versatile thespian.

Before we get into our seg, real quick, I want to talk about our flight back from

New Orleans,

Mark, because

it was fun.

Connor, we haven't shared this with you, so we thought maybe

you'd be into this story.

So we, you know, we get on the plane on Friday to fly back to LA and

Underdog was nice enough to give us a nice seat up there in business class.

And Mark and I are in two different rows.

I'm directly in front of Mark, and

the seated next to me turns out to be a prominent

NFL player of the last decade or so, in the last decade or so, like a prominent superstar now no longer active.

I don't want to say who it is, but if people want to piece it together, they can.

A star, a superstar

out of the backfield of the prior 10 years in the NFL.

And anyway, so Mark was a little jealous, I could tell.

Like, I don't like, I never talk to people next to me on a plane, like, not my thing, not my style.

I don't care who it is.

And I could tell Mark was, you know, a little bummed out.

But then things got worse for you, Mark.

It did get worse because this is a, let's be real, a large individual, brawny.

I'd call him brawny.

And he immediately took his seat.

The minute like we get into the, into, you know, flight space, he immediately puts his seat back entirely.

So I can't do, I, I can't remember.

Full recline.

But my second, my, that was my second issue.

My first issue was that this whole, I don't talk to people next to me, like I would have been like, I would have engaged in a wonderful conversation and tried to get to know him better, probably get his phone number.

That's why he was fortunate because he doesn't want to talk to some podcast bozo.

He was

giving him the space and he gave me mine.

Well, he wasn't giving me my space, though.

He just declines the seat.

Like, and that's why we shouldn't say his name because, like, automatically, I think in today's air travel, Connor, if you're someone that's going to take the seat and put it all the way back, it and this is, I don't like to do this.

I don't like to complain about air like flights and stuff.

But, like, this was just, I couldn't move.

And there was like a large person next to me.

So it was just like four hours of like mass all around me.

Oh, stop it.

You're ridiculous.

The best part, though, is experiencing enjoyment.

We get off the plane, right?

And this was the best part.

This individual, you know, an instantly recognizable individual if you follow football, an award-winning individual,

but no longer an active

player.

You know, Mark and I have now, we're together.

We're walking off

the concourse thing, and we're back now.

We're into the

airport proper, and we pass this individual who's, you know, gathering some of his belongings.

And Mark turns to him and makes like eye contact with him and says, Good luck to you.

And then we keep walking, and I like, I take a beat, and I think, what do you mean, good luck?

I'm just saying, good luck to him.

Good luck to what?

And your response was like, you know, just whatever he's doing.

Good luck to him.

I'm connecting with him.

He felt that connection.

I'm certain.

Do we have the video Mark took when he was aggravated on the plane?

Hopefully it doesn't give away the identity.

It's what a cinematography event this is, by the way.

Look how far back that scene is.

Look how far back it is.

You could see

his scalp.

It's like

under a microscope.

That was a creepy video.

Like, I'd even say

by myself, that was a little.

Good luck to you.

Well, he looked stunned when I said that.

Like, he was just like, wait, what?

Why are you talking to me?

All right.

It's like telling the woman at the ticket counter, like, when she's like, enjoy your trip.

And you're like, you too.

You know, even though she's not going anywhere.

Yeah.

Ridiculous.

All right, let's hit this.

seg.

What are we invested in in this offseason?

I'll get this going.

I'm invested

for obvious reasons

in

New York football getting its act together.

This is like a very important offseason.

You know, since the Giants beat the Patriots in 47, that was February of 2012.

Here are the records of the two New York football teams.

The Giants, 79, 132, and 1.

Two playoff appearances, one win.

The Jets, 74 and 138.

I bet you didn't realize it was that close, by the way.

Only five games worse than the Giants.

Zero playoff appearances, famously.

Longest active drought in North American sports.

You know,

the records of these two New York football teams...

Buffalo is the only New York.

Quiet clown.

You're basically Canadian.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Jesus Christ.

Tough time.

Anyway,

you know,

that is crazy.

Jesus Christ.

Their combined record is 153, 270, and 1.

That's a 360 winning percentage.

And that goes back to Obama's first term in office.

Like, this has been going on a long time.

What in the holy f ⁇ , Connor Orr, has happened to New York football?

I know you've covered both of these teams during this time.

And as you might guess, I'm invested in this.

I'm glad that Poppy, God rest his soul, my grandfather, doesn't have to watch this from his brown chair on Cardine Place in Pearl River.

But I have a lot of friends and a lot of family who do have to watch Giants football.

It's wretched.

Like Sunday afternoon text threads

between Giants and Jets fans in my life read like a real-time dispatch of an active terrorism event.

Like it's,

you know, and I also stress about this as a dad.

My sons are eight and ten years old.

They know nothing of the Jets, obviously, other than dysfunction and failure for the duration of their lives to this point.

This, you know, that reflects poorly on me.

Like,

what do they think of me?

That that's the team that I tell them is like the team that you should believe in.

And while I tend to have little sympathy for Giants fans and their four Super Bowl rings and their rich history as a Tiffany franchise,

any big blue supporters born after the helmet catch, which was

February of 2008, have similarly sour experiences for the duration of their lives to this point.

And, you know, this is, that gets to the point.

And Connor, you know, this.

It's cold and it's dark in the tri-state area in late fall and winter.

It rains, it sleets, it snows.

The wind cuts through you and through your jacket and it laughs as it does it and you have to shovel a lot.

Well, in Markstown in Connecticut, they pay people to do it, but like those people have to shovel.

And a halfway decent product on the football field shouldn't be too much to ask for.

So figure it out.

I think the patience

has run thin.

And our old buddy Jason Artilius, a great producer,

used to be with us at NFL Media.

He does a lot of stuff in the New York area now.

I did some WPIX live hits on Sunday nights this past season, a couple of them.

And it was just like every topic was just a funereal about New York football.

The Giants picked third overall this year.

You know, the Jets pick seventh overall.

They both need quarterbacks.

They both need help in the trenches.

They both need help in the back end of their defense.

And I would just say the quickest path back to respectability here is obviously finding a quarterback.

But Jaden Daniels doesn't grow on trees.

It gets especially tricky here.

The Giants won a meaningless game in January that took them out of a draft class that might be too deep at quarterback.

And so now they have to hope one of those two guys falls to them.

The Jets just quit on Aaron Rodgers, as we talked about.

The best potential free agent option might be Sam Darnold, who has enough Jets-related baggage to fill up a 747.

So I think the only way to play this, obviously, is

don't you're not trying to make the playoffs and win the Super Bowl.

this offseason, but you have to start building a foundation and using this year as foundational.

And don't expect miracles.

But if you can get out of the season, having improved the roster and you could kick the quarterback conversation down the line potentially,

that would be success.

And you just hope that the aging oligarchs in the big offices upstairs have the patience to handle a fix for New York football and do it the right way.

Because there are no quick fixes for either of these organizations.

I guess I have a few scattered thoughts on this.

I would say when I was on the Jets beat in 2010 and the Jets and the Giants played on Christmas Eve, the year of the Victor Cruz game,

that was

as electric an environment as I remember in my life.

And I would put it over several of the Super Bowls that I've been to.

There's nothing like when both of these teams are good at the same time.

And I would say that's true even for people

who don't live there.

I think that there's just something really magical about that.

I would follow that by just seconding your opinion on, like, Giants fans need to shut the hell up.

Like, I'm so annoyed with them in general.

Like,

you know, and covering the team, you know, you just get texts from your friends.

It's like, oh, this is terrible.

You won two Super Bowls in 2007 and 2010 that you vividly remember, that you got to watch with your parents, that you, you know, two of the, you know, you knocked out the greatest dynasty in NFL history twice.

You didn't want to draft Saquon Barkley.

Now you're complaining that you're, he's gone.

You couldn't wait to get rid of Eli Manning.

Now you're saying that we need somebody like him and that you can't replace him and that we pushed him out too soon.

You couldn't wait to get rid of Tom Coughlin.

And now we're saying we need another coach that's tough like Tom.

Shut the hell up.

Like, just, you know, get out of here.

I, I, I've, I have way more sympathy for Jets fans who, and Dan, you and I have discussed this, I feel, are a bit on the performative side, but still have been dealing with tremendous amounts of just, you know, like a clinic and bullshit for the last 50 years, you know?

And so I don't put them in the same category, but I would like to see both of them good at the same time because it does kind of spice up my fall and it's good for local business.

I mean,

it's such a weird league when both New York teams are awful.

Like, you're not used to that.

We all,

you live there, Connor, but we all grew up in the tri-state area where like New York sports was the center of the galaxy.

And to have both teams be this awful, I mean, the difference I've seen between them is that the Jets have a genuine ownership problem that is an opposite of a magnet to players wanting to go there, like coaches wanting to go there, fill in the blank.

And post-Eli Manning, they've just not had a quarterback.

And there's seven or eight teams out there every year that are like that.

And they just not, they've, they've been a directionless compass.

I would say so, Mark, to that point, while, yes, obviously Woody Johnson is Woody Johnson.

The Giants have failures, have gone beyond the quarterback.

They have been kind of a joke of an organization the way they've been run.

Increasingly so in the last seven or eight years.

But like that was network, we called them a network.

I think they get a pass.

In part because they share the city with the Jets and the Jets are such a laughing stock nationally and locally that people are kind of sleeping.

To my point, that they've almost have identical records over the past, since that last Super Bowl when the Giants are in a deep funk.

So like

I'll move out of the way now because I want us to hit our other two, but I just want to say like that there will be no miracles for either of these teams in 25, but they just have to be smart about building up these rosters and giving the coaches and the GMs a runway to rebuild this thing the right way because

both teams have done it the wrong way for several years now.

Yep.

I'm invested.

How about you, Sassy?

What are you invested in?

So I know

to like listeners, it's like Dan is going to hit a certain topic and Mark's going to hit a certain topic and it's going to involve certain teams and they can be annoyed at us.

And I'm not, I've tried to stay off the Browns.

I really have.

But I think that the Miles Garrett situation is one of the more intriguing offseason narratives because they're very invested in not trading him from what you hear.

That he wants out.

Listen to his words.

He said, I'm willing to do whatever it takes.

I want to have a chance to win those big games, to go out there and compete, to elevate a team as a player, as a teammate, as a leader, and just come in and have an immediate effect.

So you want to to go to a winner.

Like you don't want to build the Browns into a winner.

I get you've been there for a long time.

And

for one, I can see where Miles Garrett is coming from because I think the NBA obviously has impacted the NFL.

All of these are, you know, they're all in the same world in terms of pro athletes discussing.

working with each other, talking about what the future can be for themselves as stars.

And Miles Garrett is basically taking his career into his own hands and saying, I don't trust this team, this organization, and these owners to take me there.

And he's not wrong, but it's like, part of me is like, what will happen here?

And are we moving into what I am a little more concerned about, cap aside, because every team, it's not baseball where like there are truly poor teams that like just float like the Pittsburgh Pirates did for a million years.

Like the cap does create, like does create like an equality between these teams, but are there richer and poorer teams in the sense that like you just mentioned, like, why would someone want to go to Cleveland, for for instance it's like is it like no I want to go to Miami I want to go to a like a state with no income tax like I don't want to play in a cold weathered like town like are there Clevelands out there that are never going to be able to hold on to a Miles Garrett and and what happens with this struggle between team and start the best defensive player they've ever had I'd argue And he's run out of patience with what the organization is.

And I don't have a problem with his mindset, but is the team just held captive?

And this this is an offseason too, where we don't have a lot of quarterbacks available.

The free agency class is the worst, I think, we've seen in 10 years.

The draft is hot and cold, depending on what you're looking for.

Is it a trade-heavy offseason where someone like Miles Garrett can force his hand and control the team?

And if you root for a team like your Jets, the Giants, the Browns, one of these eight or nine teams that struggles, are you, as a fan, just a sitting duck?

Are you a rube to root for a team like this that will never get where you want it to go because its best players will use you for their first contract and then they'll find a way to get out?

My sympathy wavers

with the players when they're asking out of town

because for the reasons why, as a Browns fan, why you're frustrated that he wants out now.

But in the case of Garrett, like...

He's an example.

This isn't like Devontae Adams.

I want to move to Vegas where my mansion is and play with my buddy Derek.

Or, you know, Tyreek Hill forcing his way to Miami after vetoing the Jets because he wants to be in South Beach.

The Browns,

they're botching his prime.

I do agree with that.

And it's like

he's given them seven or eight years of his best years as a pro athlete.

And with them showing no signs of figuring it out,

I don't.

have an issue with Garrett or any player in this type of situation deciding like, I got to go find a place that will put me in a position to be playing in January, you know?

I'm with you.

I just, I do think that the Clevelands of the world, there's five or six teams like this, that if he were on the Eagles and they were struggling for a number of years, like, does the same thing happen if he were on a New York team?

Probably yes, because I think it's just player empowerment.

So, like, again, like, I'm kind of in a weird place as a fan, too, where it's like, I can see where he's coming from.

And to everything you just said, Dan, like, I, I can see it that way.

And it's like, if I were him, I'd want out too.

But if you root for a certain type of team in a certain part of the country that has a certain type of history and lineage, like, are you screwed?

Like, are you living in a pretendersville?

Like, no, we saw what happened with Washington in one season when they got the quarterback.

Everything can change.

I get that.

But, like, I just feel part of it is like, if you root for geographically,

economically, ownership-wise, a certain type of NFL franchise, you're kind of pretending.

You're living pretendersville.

Well, look at Detroit, though.

Like, there are, it's, you know, it's bad until it's not.

And I don't think Chicago, I don't think Cleveland is some football graveyard.

In fact, you see it, Connor, you see it every year with those primetime games where the Browns have a pulse sometimes when they play their home games in primetime.

And it's like, oh, what a great football city.

What a great vibe.

And they almost got there in the early years of Baker.

Like, I don't think players view the Browns as a death sentence.

But if it's...

the way that they've run the organization the last two years or three years is like that's the problem.

Like

just figure it out.

Like, because I get why you would disenfranchise your best players.

Right.

And I mean, you know, if you look at the NFL PA survey every year, there's a reason why there are some teams that are always at the top.

And there are also teams that rise really quickly that you wouldn't expect.

For example, the Vikings have one of the most widely praised facilities, day-to-day work environments in the NFL, and that place is a tundra hellhole, right?

And so it's one of those situations where in Cleveland, if you operate like some sort of evil hedge fund manager your employees are going to feel like they work for an evil hedge fund and that's just the way it is i mean jimmy haslam gutted the career of joe thomas like think of all the great browns players that have come before and after my nick chubb is now gonna he's gonna have played in what one play two playoff games in his entire life at this point so i don't blame him he sees the writing on the wall but i think that the the the ability to change the perception rests within the owner.

Stephen Ross went from evil, like actually paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to try to lose games with Brian Flores, to the Dolphins having the number one rated team to play for in the NFL because of you hired the right coach.

You hired people who make it so you want to be there every day.

And so I don't think it's this mystical process.

It's just don't be an evil hedge fund manager.

You know, just act, act normal.

How about you, Connor?

All right.

Dan.

Isn't it funny how much everything goes back to ownership?

Everything goes back to ownership.

Absolutely.

It really does.

All right.

Connor.

So before I get into mine, Dan, just an interesting statistical question for you.

Just venture a guess for me here on what Patrick Mahomes's yards per attempt were if the Chiefs decided to pass the ball in first down versus run the ball in first down.

If they decide to pass the ball down.

It doesn't matter because I'm legitimately invested in the run game, baby.

Pass

is yesterday's news.

It's been found out like high fructose corn syrup.

It's unhealthy.

It's a false promise.

It's a precursor to diabetes.

The Eagles ran the ball 621 times during the regular season.

They went from third in the NFL in percentages of drives ending in a turnover last year to 29th this year.

They average more yards per play.

They have more time per drive than a year ago.

They cut down on their risk of backbreaking sacks or interceptions by 11%.

This is not just the Eagles.

The Packers went from dead last in the league in rushing attempts under Mike McCarthy.

One of their offensive linemen actually told me he didn't even have a play-action fake running block in his repertoire to fifth in the NFL in rushing attempts in 2024.

They average almost a full yard more per play than their opponents.

They're eighth in points.

Vic Fangio has this league by the grapes.

He's locked down big plays like Attica.

The only course forward is unconditional violence.

But, Connor, you say, this is correlation, not causation.

Actually, the EPA, get, get, get, shut your mouth.

The war is over.

You lost.

The league has been returned to men the size of P.T.

Barnum's bearded lady.

To men who lick their own sweat for hydration, ride horses all day through the hot summer sun, then smack drunkards by the watering hole before bedtime.

To men who snack on red onion and hunt dangerous rabbit dogs for sport.

The world is full of large, hideous, gruffalo-sized men.

Draft 11 of them, six more running backs, and trade your quarterback to the stupid Jets.

No Netflix series mystifying your little process of how you study.

We're busy lifting oversized Dobermans, one in each hand, preparing for violence.

Hell yeah.

I'll smack you in the mouth.

I'm Neil Diamond.

Yeah.

I want guys that like, they're 340-pound guards, and it's seven minutes to go in the second quarter, and I got to take a dump, and I just let it go in my pants.

That's what I want.

Let's bring them back.

Let's bring back that style.

I will spin up my wife.

We need our guys dropping F-bombs and downing canned beer in the streets after you win the Super Bowl by destroying someone on the ground.

Yeah.

Look at the, and

it is always, you know, the winners that, that cause change in copycats, right?

Like, everyone's looking at the Eagles.

They had an offensive line that was great for several years, but then when they paired it with a true dog in the backfield, they became unfinging stoppable.

Like, is that maybe if you're a running back out there, there's hope that that will lead to maybe you get paid in free agency or you get drafted in the first round.

Maybe that will it go all the way around in that regard.

Yes, Justin.

James Cook is hoping so, requesting or putting out that he wants to get paid $15 million a year.

Maybe this is the start of the revolution.

Will it be televised?

But even so, on Netflix.

It's $15 million a year.

It's less than half of your top end wide receiver.

And I'm not, you know, because now this is going to get taken out of context.

And say, oh, yeah, you know, whatever.

But I'm not saying to never pass, but why are we throwing the ball 35 times a game?

Why are we so insistent on, oh, every drive's got to start with the pass?

Because the analytics say this.

I honestly think, and this is probably going to bury me down deeper into the hole, but Brandon Staley was way ahead of his time when he said this in 2021.

Where if you don't have that physicality, the defense doesn't respect it.

They don't prepare for it.

They don't flinch a little bit off the snap.

They're not fearful of you in any way, shape, or form.

And I think the Eagles really just punch the accelerator on this.

And if you look at globally, what's available, how many Justin Jeffersons are there on the planet?

Four?

You know, guys that are that tall, that have that kind of mentality, that kind of catch radius.

Tyree, it's Tyreek Hill and Noah Lyles.

They're the only two people like that in the United States of America right now.

Jordan Milott is a big guy, but I don't know, travel the world.

We'll find someone.

That'd be my question.

People everywhere.

But that'd be my question for you, Connor, because

for instance, the year before, the Eagles had a stable of running backs that as a group costs less than the Jets paid for Dalvin Cook.

So they tried to do it a number of different ways, and Saquon worked really perfectly.

But they've got one of these incredible offensive lines and defensive lines.

But it's like, are there enough big-bodied,

reliable men to create 32 offensive lines?

Like, there are so many bad offensive lines.

And I also have always wondered this, too, that like, if you're looking at younger people today, they look like the sort of the corn-fed farm guy from Iowa that like lands at like six, seven, 328 pounds or whatever.

Like, these guys are like playing, they're like staring at their phones.

from ages like four through 17 now.

They're not like these human beings are less available.

Like teams can want to do this and they do want to do this, but can teams create these offensive lines?

Like the Eagles are special because they found the right big masked.

There will always be big men, whether or not social media exists and phones exist.

I think that, but also scheme matters, right?

Look at Mikai Bechton, who washed out in New York as a left tackle, but he's huge and talented.

He's going to get paid like $16 million a year this offseason.

Yeah, and the Eagles said, you know what?

All right, it didn't work out a tackle for this guy, but he's athletic.

He's big.

I'm going to stick him at Garden.

He's going going to maul in guard, and he's going to be sitting in confetti with tears holding his daughter after the Super Bowl.

Like, yeah, just it's scheme, and it's, and I like that.

You know, that's whatever happened to Gary Cooper.

You know, that's what this is about, right?

Well, it's, I think now, if you're looking at,

we're asking ourselves this question, are good tackles available?

Are good quarterbacks are just becoming a thing of the past in terms of we have, what, seven quarterbacks right now that you would say are legitimate problems for opposing defenses seven or eight am i am i overstating that dearly ballpark yeah yeah and so i i think you know everything in the league is cyclical and we got taken by storm by you know high passing high octane passing offenses because the defenses at the time were set up to allow it everything was kind of in its right place but now everyone's smaller everyone's thinner everyone was focused on speed and now is the time to just load up on your sludge hammers but i don't think that that ever really goes out of style.

I mean, I know it's not the perfect example, but I mean, shit, Army's been running the same offense since 1900, and they won 11 games last year.

Bravo.

Think about it, everybody.

Think about it.

Army.

We're invested.

We're invested.

in this offseason.

We've got so much fun content coming up.

Coming up on Thursday, we welcome back our friends Jordan and Money Mike Dugar

and dig into the league from a different angle.

Connor, thank you as always for everything you do.

We'll see you on the Friday Fun Show, which returns on Patreon on Friday.

Justin, good luck to you.

Again,

we're sorry about that conversation at the top of the show, but also one that had to be done.

Yes.

I'm going to go pick up my kid at a police station right now.

So

wherever she is.

Yeah.

You know, I got a ton of shit to unpack here, but by Thursday's show, my background should be looking nice.

And

good luck at the station, Connor.

All right.

Excellent.

All right, let's get out of here.

We will be back on Thursday.

Like I said, make sure you're there, Hedonist.

We're happy to be back in your ears.

Till next time, heed the call.

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