Butt Pics and Smart Dogs with Janet Varney

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I am Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

We are in chambers this week, clearing the docket.

And with me is Judge John Hodgman.

Hi, John.

How are you?

I'm well, Jesse Thorne.

I'm here in my summer chambers at WERU.org in Orland, Maine, with our main man, Joel, the main man, man,

program, and operations director here

at WERU.

Yes, yes, we are.

It's good to have you back in Maine.

Well, thank you very much.

I was here last week.

I haven't left.

Oh, I must have forgotten that already.

I actually haven't left the station.

I've been living in the walls.

That's right.

I'm frogging in Maine, everybody.

But I am very, very thrilled, Jesse Thorne, because we have an addition to the J squad, an addition to Joel, Jesse, Jennifer, Jay Dan, and Jay Daniel Spear over there in California.

We have a new person joining us for today's wonderful wonderful docket.

It's Janet Varney.

Hi, Janet.

Hello, Jay friends.

How are you?

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm going on the record.

We're all well.

We don't have to all answer individually.

Okay.

Yeah, I think we're all well.

Just most people are well right now.

Everyone's nothing to complain about.

Couldn't be better.

We're all.

We're all all amended.

We're all doing as okay as possible, and I dare say a little bit better now that you're here.

Janet, now eagle-eared listeners will recognize that wonderful voice from the JV Club right here on the Maximum Fun Network, as well as the voice of many of your favorite characters of animation, including Cora, the legend of.

Yeah, that's how it's usually built.

Cora, the legend of.

Going on the record to confirm, yes.

And the adventures of an avatar.

Sure.

And also, ePluribus Moto, the relatively brand new podcast, co-hosted by Janet and me, John Hodgman.

ePluribus Motto, it's all about what, Janet, the mottos of the United States?

The mottos, the state symbols.

Maybe we'll throw in a critique of a flag or two.

And we have been getting so much wonderful feedback from listeners who are sharing their experiences of their home states or their adopted states.

And we're just learning a little something every time we do an episode.

It's been delightful.

Episode, excuse me, season two.

Episode two is long gone.

Season two is just about in the can and out to your cans.

That is your headphones where you listen to podcasts.

You can go check out our episodes on Maryland, Minnesota, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, the District of Columbia, and more

wherever you get your podcasts, but specifically maximumfun.org.

Hey, Joel Mann.

Yes, Judge.

There was a referendum in the state of Maine over the state flag relatively recently, correct?

Yes.

There's the old timey state flag and then the very old timey state flag.

One of them has a rudimentary tree and star on it, which was the original flag of Maine, and then it was replaced with a kind of boring state steel in the middle of a blue field.

You can see which side I was on.

Would you like to reveal which one you voted for?

I really don't like flags at all.

Oh, you're anti-vexological?

Yes, waving the flag is not for me.

All right.

Never mind.

You let your freak flag fly, don't you, Joe?

You still.

All right, wait, which of these state flags is the new one and which is the old one?

There's a tan one with a green tree and a blue star in the upper left-hand corner, and then there's a navy blue one with a seal in the middle.

Which is the old one, which was the new proposal?

Yeah, and if you're watching this on our YouTube channel right now, you can probably put those in so that you can review them yourself and vote in the comments which one is the better flag.

The tan one with the green tree and the blue star is the original, original state flag of Maine from back in the mid-1800s when

Maine was broken off from Massachusetts to become a state.

Then the one with the state seal and the blue field is the more contemporary state flag.

And I'm not going to reveal the result of the referendum here.

Which one do you think won, Janet Varney?

I'm hoping that the elder flag won, because what is a state seal other than a thing that should be kept separate from a flag because a flag is its own thing.

And why would you just spoil a flag by throwing a state seal on it?

That seems too simplistic, but tell me, which one?

Well, the original, original state flag, the old timey one with the with the star and the tree, has been enjoying a resurgence of late

because it's kind of a more beautiful and simple design.

And for that reason, it did come to a referendum.

But here's the deal.

Joel, it would be fair to say that the folks who love that oldie, oldie state flag with the star and the tree were mostly in Portland, Maine, correct?

Correct.

The more cosmopolitan, the largest city in Maine, with as many as 17 permanent residents.

That's not true.

It's actually true.

And 24 vintage clothing stores.

That's right.

That's right.

I'll be right there.

And

the rest of Maine had no opinion on changing the state flag whatsoever until it was proposed by the people of Portland that it be changed to the oldie timey state flag.

And then everyone in the rest of Maine was like, well, I don't want to let those people win.

And so we are, we are, we have, we're sticking, we're sticking with the blue field with the state seal in the middle, which is kind of not very recognizable compared to so many other state flags that are designed in the exact same way.

But that's the way the referendum worked.

And we just got new license plates that

I noticed like there's this brand new license plate in Maine, which sort of evokes the tree and star, oldie timey, Portland's favorite state flag, but you give the option without the tree and star because they know it's divisive.

Wait, there wasn't a literal

like in California, there are statewide ballot initiatives, but they're always to like make psilocybin mushrooms mandatory or whatever.

They're like major policy issues

to shoot gang members on site.

Like it's always something totally bonkers.

and like really a big deal, way too big a deal to be chosen by

mass vote.

But they like fully had a ballot referendum on whether it should be this good-looking flag or this ugly flag.

The good looking flag being the one with the good-looking flag, in your opinion, being the one with the tree and the stars.

The tree one is beautiful.

Yeah, it's a really, really beautiful flag.

And it's distinctive.

It doesn't look like any other state flag.

Yeah.

And they really did have a referendum because people in portland were starting to make all kinds of t-shirts and caps and and flags and stuff

and having a distinctive state flag that doesn't look like other states flags is going to be more important than ever in the coming war between the states

you're not wrong jesse you're not wrong but guess what there might be a war within the state oh bear Yeah, between the hipster flag folk and the rest of the rest of Maine, too.

So we'll see.

Anyway, that's some real e pluribus motto stuff right there.

You can listen to more and more and more of the vexillological

parogenations that Janet and I go on as we road trip through these for now, United States, districts, commonwealths, and territories.

And if you want to listen to more, I hope you will.

e pluribus motto is the name of the podcast janet we've been coming up with a different motto for our podcast with every episode, but the one that I've been I've been touting lately, and I wonder if I can get your opinion on it.

E pluribus motto.

It's Latin for out of many podcasts.

Here's another one.

Yes, that's correct.

What do you think about that?

Literal translation.

I think it works very well indeed.

But we have more to discuss here because, Janet, you're joining us and we're so happy that you are to clear the docket.

We've got quite a bit of unsettled law to settle in the form of letters from our listeners.

And Jesse Thorne, you want to start reading one to us?

Here's a case from Scott in Northampton, Massachusetts.

I have a framed portrait of my butt tattoo that I'd like to hang in my bathroom.

My partner, Alicia, doesn't want a photo of my bare butt on display, but I think that the bathroom is a great place for my butt art.

There's a photo here that he has sent us of his butt art.

You can see this on all of our social media on the showpage at maximumfund.org or right now live on the Judge John Hodgman channel on YouTube.

To the extent that it is permitted by terms of service.

That's true.

The tattoo is of a bomb emoji.

So he says that he got the tattoo and then made the photo portrait in order to offer it to an emoji-themed art show.

Just to verify, this person really does live in Northampton, Massachusetts.

That sounds about on brand.

Yeah.

The photo is of the portrait hanging in the bathroom, the evidence photo, but normally this portrait lives in the closet.

So this would just be an example of how it would hang in the bathroom were it allowed, were it to be allowed to hang in the bathroom.

So Scott wants to hang this photo portrait.

of his bare butt with a bomb tattoo on what would be his right cheek

in the in the bathroom partner alicia does not before we get into it let me ask everybody uh jesse i know you've got some wonderful tattoos right i do i have some wonderful tattoos that's true one of them says my name is william carlos williams and i'm the best in the house or something it says who shall say it is

uh a line from a william carlos williams poem

that is about him waking up before everyone else wakes up and dancing around and naked in front of a mirror.

With a bomb tattoo on his butt?

With a a bomb tattoo on his butt, yeah.

Interesting.

Who shall say I am not the happy genius of my household?

Who shall say I'm not the happy genius of my household?

And you also have some tattoos on your fingers that say play ball.

I have tattoos on my fingers that say play ball.

I also have a tattoo on my right shoulder of the character Mickey from Maury Sendax in the night kitchen.

I have a tattoo on my right shoulder,

a fairly rudimentary diamond that has little rays of light coming off of it, that is inspired by a Jorge Luis Borges short story called The Death and the Compass, but looks rather like a prison tattoo indicating affiliation that I would not like to have.

And so I don't flaunt it very much anymore.

I got it when I was 19 in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

right there on the wrong side of the Piscataway Bridge on the way to Maine.

Janet, what three-name literary tattoos do you have?

Yeah, great question, Jesse.

You know what?

I have a Wrinkle and Time-themed tattoo.

So if you make the L apostrophe the third name of Melan Lengo,

then I think we're still, we're still, yeah, it's still in play.

It's still in play.

Yeah.

Is your tattoo of the Tesseract demonstration?

No, but I thought about that.

I thought about that.

Yeah.

No, mine is mine's, well, it's also a tribute to my mother, who was a French professor of French

who passed away in 2021.

So it says tente bete,

which is aunt beast, which is my favorite character from that book.

But it's in French for my mom.

I thought you were going to say that it was a tattoo of a cream cheese and olive sandwich because that's what they're eating in the rainstorm.

They certainly are.

They certainly are.

I believe Charles Wallace makes it for them, right?

He's a good little sandwich maker.

It's been a while since I read the book, so I'll take your word for it because you have a tattoo from the book.

So I bet you know.

We have a Judge John Hodgman listener who works at the estate of Madeline Lengle

and was kind enough to bring us some Wrinkling Time stuff at a show once that is on my refrigerator.

I will be right over.

I'm scrapping my trip to go to Portland for the vintage stores.

I'm going to head over to you and steal those refrigerator items.

You can do it all, Janet Varney.

Thank you.

I would not hang a photo of my tattoo in any room or bathroom.

Would you hang a photo of your tattoos in any room in your house?

Jesse, Janet, Joel?

Do you have any real tattoos, Joel?

No tattoos, no piercings.

You were in the Navy.

Right.

How did you avoid, we were just talking about how Joel, Joel,

Joel was in the Navy School of Music and was, you were, you were stationed in Norfolk, Virginia,

playing in the Navy band.

Yep.

One of them, not the Navy band in Washington, but there's lots of

side bands.

Side bands.

Side projects.

You do the gig work.

I like the early stuff when it was raw.

You played both string bass and tuba.

Yes.

Keeping the bottom low.

Yep.

But no tattoos.

Down low.

No, no tattoos.

No bass cleft?

Nope.

In any particular areas?

Interesting.

Nope.

And I don't think I would hang them if I did.

All right.

Let me ask you all this question.

Do any of you have any naked pictures of yourself?

And I'm going to exclude here what I will call personal photographs, which is to say intimate photographs that one may have, say, you know,

casually captured for the interest of a romantic partner.

Yeah.

Richard Picks.

I don't have, I certainly don't have any Richard Picks of myself.

No, yeah.

I don't, and Jesse, I will say I want to thank you.

No offense.

All due respect to the honorable Judge John Hodgman.

I do feel that you are maybe hitting closer to

the point in question, which is less to me about the tattoo and more about where the tattoo is and featuring that in a bathroom.

So

more about maybe the butt than the bomb.

Yeah, to quote

that famous, perhaps apocryphal story.

from the newlywed game where the answer was in the butt, Bob.

Correct.

On the butt.

In this case, it's on Scott's.

But do you think that this is tasteless or tasteful or taste-neutral, Janet?

You know, I think it's, it's cheeky.

It's funny.

It's

cheeky.

It's literally cheeky.

I don't want to shame anyone for having, for doing

nude photos of themselves or others with consent.

I don't, I don't have a problem with that.

I think it's, I think it's lovely.

I think if I had a tasteful portrait that someone had done, I wouldn't feel ashamed or anything like that.

But I do feel that the tone of this particular item is self-acknowledged to be kind of cheeky.

I can't stop using that word.

Well,

it is both literally appropriate and figuratively appropriate.

It is obviously done with

a little humor.

Yeah.

I dare say, or maybe I don't dare say, a little tongue-in-cheek.

Uh-huh.

John, you're no millennial.

You're a Gem Xer.

I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm sure.

This puts me in mind of once many, many years ago, I was in a comedy video for a popular website of comedy videos,

and it was shot at the CEO of that company's house.

And the CEO of that company, I believe he was the CEO,

his wife was, and I believe still is the legendary actor and model, Brooke Shields,

who seems like a really cool lady.

And I just want to open with that.

She seems really smart and interesting.

I heard her on Fresh Air.

I love how carefully you were protecting the anonymity of this website and the CEO

until it came to the point where you

had the slightest connection to Brookshields.

I realized that

I had to address the Brooks Shields part of it because it's central to this yeah um anyway we shot it like at their house like it was like we need a location of a of a nice house to shoot at the guy was like well it's my it's my company you can just do it at my house their house covered in naked pictures of brook shields just naked pictures of brooke shields everywhere like probably eight to 12 pictures of naked pictures of Brooks Shields.

That said, I'm sure they were all taken by like Herb Ritz, and

she is one of the most legendarily beautiful human beings in the history of America.

You know what I mean?

Like she's famous for, among other things, how her butt looks in her Calvins.

True.

I would say Scott's butt seems like a butt that Alicia probably really loves.

I'm not saying it's a bad butt.

I'm not saying it's a bad butt.

No, it's fine.

It's fine.

It's a, it's a, again, I think Alicia probably, I'm not saying it's better than, better, or worse than my butt.

My wife loves my butt.

You're saying that if he had like a Marky Mark butt, that it would be better.

It would be different.

That's for sure.

I think it might be better.

I don't know.

I went to it.

I went to a house once.

I bet you did.

That

featured naked pictures of one of the owners of the house in the bathroom.

But she

was also a famous model.

I'm not constantly going to the houses of,

I just think, I actually think that, like, the only two times I've ever been to someone, to someone that good-looking's house,

there was a naked picture of them in it.

Yeah.

But in that case, it was somehow weirder.

Like, having it in the bathroom felt weirder to me.

Like, the Brooks Shields pictures are like on the walls of the like

family room, like the den or whatever,

it felt like having a picture of you and the president together.

You know what I mean?

Like it was just like, well, this is an incredible accomplishment that I was a famous model.

You know what I mean?

It's like, it's like having the poster of a movie you produced on the wall of your production office or something like that.

In the bathroom, it was weirdly intense and intimate.

Yeah, it feels like it's like, like, now that I've got you alone,

here I am.

And it's just you and me.

That is exactly what it feels like.

Yeah.

It's too much.

Too much.

You're saying that Scott's butt could be displayed in any other room and it would be less offensive or less intimate than in the bathroom.

I mean, I don't think it would be less intimate.

It's not funny to me, per se.

Like the cheekiness of it doesn't pass my

cheeky bar for like having a cheeky bathroom.

You know what I mean?

Like, like it's not like it's like a, I don't know, like a crocheted sign that says eat prey poop or something like that.

Please tell me that doesn't pass your cheeky bar.

Do not care for it.

I don't care for it.

I don't care for it, but it's clearly from someone being cute.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

This less so.

This feels a little more sincere and maybe would be better in a sincerer place, but honestly, it's not something I would want to look at.

Well, it's also the display of a butt, which is where the poop comes out of.

Right.

But also, isn't it just about

it does put you in mind of poop, but also

just the questions that I know come up for this

program frequently, which is, in a relationship, what is your onus to your partner?

How much do you step aside to respect their level of comfort about something, especially when it is something that is not just about her level of comfort, but also perhaps she is concerned about the level of comfort of potential guests who may be coming in and having this experience of feeling like Scott's butt just got them alone?

So that's, you know, ultimately for me, it comes back to, you know, Scott, Alicia,

Scott, maybe is it, maybe do you need to respect that your partner is maybe looking out for you as well as just not wanting that picture in the bathroom?

Here's a story.

Sometime in the

late aughts, they opened up an Apple store in the meat packing district of New York City.

And at the time, I was making some commercials for this company.

So I was invited to this opening of this Apple store.

And

some other people were invited, including Brooke Shields.

Well, well.

I can confirm that Brooke Shields is one of the nicest people in the world.

It was really fun to meet her.

She was so smart and funny.

And we took a photo together, which is very flattering to Brooke Shields.

And you can find it if you search Brooke Shields Hodgman.

You might be seeing it.

If we license it from Getty Pictures right now, we can show it on YouTube.

So, yeah, this is a wonderful photo that I got to take with Brooke Shields of the many things that happened to me in my life as a result of those

commercials that I got to do.

This was truly one of the most surprising of them and delightful of them.

And I can confirm that she's a really wonderful and very funny person.

It was really nice of her to take a photo with me, especially since I was dressed entirely in tan.

I look like Tim Robinson from the poster of friendship.

And I confess that I have

20 copies of this photo on display in my bathroom.

But that doesn't mean that Scott should have a picture of his butt in his bathroom.

But in terms of Scott's butt, first of all, I didn't realize this was a bomb.

I thought it was a cast iron pan, in which case I was going to rule in his favor no matter what.

But it is a bomb.

And while Scott's butt may be the bomb, I think putting it in your bathroom against the wishes of your partner

is

a bomb.

It's a flop.

It's a failure.

It's not something you want to do.

You got to, you got to, it doesn't matter if it's a photo of your own butt.

You have to agree on everything that's displayed in your house.

That's what living together means.

If you were living alone and you wanted to break up with Alicia over this and move into another apartment in Northampton and hang your butt in the bathroom, that would be your biz.

That would be your butt biz.

But in this case,

I think Alicia gets a veto on this.

Sorry about that, Scott.

Thanks again, Brooke Shields, for taking that photo with me.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partners.

We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket with our friend Janet Varney on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We are clearing the docket with our friend Janet Varney from ePluribus Motto, the smash hit, state-themed podcast with John Hodgman.

and Janet Varney.

Here is something from Jennifer in Lincoln, Nebraska.

When we we are at sporting events with assigned seats, sometimes my spouse Thomas wants to move to a better section.

He says the seats would be unused if we don't take them.

If the seat buyers do show up, we'll just politely apologize and move.

I'm worried that if they show up, they'll be upset.

Everyone's night will be ruined because of us.

Please prohibit us from moving seats until at least halfway through the game.

Jesse, we know from your tattoos and your fingers that you like a little ball play.

I'm talking about going to baseball.

You go to baseball games all the time.

Janet, do you ever go to a baseball game?

I haven't been to a baseball game in a minute, but I do enjoy going to a baseball game.

And I think you could also extend this question out to other events because I have certainly been in this situation in the past.

Well, tell me about it.

If you go to an event and you see some seats that are unclaimed in a better section, Janet Varney, what does Janet Varney do?

I

fight every impulse I have to not move to those seats because the greedy person in me does win out.

And I do, I'm willing to move to a better section at the risk of being humiliated publicly when it is revealed that I absolutely have no right to be there at all and will in fact need to be moved sometimes forcibly back to wherever it was that I actually deserve to be.

No, I've never been forcibly removed.

No, I can't wait.

I can't wait to get out of the way.

I'm the person who will go and make that move, but feel so uncomfortable about it that my eyes are darting around at all times, waiting for someone to be angry with me.

And often it never happens.

Oh, I was going to say,

has it ever happened?

It has.

It has.

I think it happened in a movie theater under cover of darkness, where I feel the most emboldened to make such decisions because

if someone just whispers at me, I think you're in our seats, then you can just go, oh, oh, am I?

Oh,

I'm so sorry.

And then you can skulk away without everyone necessarily being able to identify that it's you, that's the jerk that made that decision and potentially ruined everyone's night.

You're talking about going to a a movie theater where they're assigned seating at the movie theater.

With assigned seating, yeah.

But again, I've done it at concerts.

I'm sure I've done it at a baseball game.

It just seems like a thing.

I feel like it's, Jesse, isn't it kind of a thing that don't people kind of understand that that's going to happen?

Isn't that kind of a thing?

I think the cultural practices

vary depending on the event and venue.

So it's not something I would try at Dodger Stadium.

Agree.

The reason being.

that A,

I'm in constant danger at Dodger Stadium just from the amount of Giants crap I'm wearing.

If I happen to go to a non-Giants game at Dodger Stadium, as previously settled on Judge John Hodgman, I do not wear Giants gear.

That's for the best.

I just wear neutral clothing.

But yeah,

the reason at Dodger Stadium that I do not move up is not so much that I am wearing Giants stuff, frankly.

And in fact, sometimes people are worried about being an outside fan at Dodger Stadium.

I've had nothing but good experiences.

But rather that Dodger Stadium is a venue that tends to fill, it tends to fill late, and it has proactive ushers for that reason.

Whereas when I was a child, the primary baseball games I went to were at Candlestick Park in San Francisco, which was a stadium that, you know, had 50,000 seats.

of which they would sell 17,000, and there were generally not active, proactive ushers, and you could move down almost immediately.

It was the same at the Oakland Coliseum for most of my childhood for baseball games.

So,

realistically, like I would be doing a self-check.

Is this a seat that is

going to go unused?

And is this a seat where I am unlikely to be bothered by an usher?

In that case, I don't think there's a big problem moving down.

And I would say like my strategy is I try to be proactive about asking people if this is their seat.

So if I see somebody like stop at my aisle, I'll turn to them and be like, oh, is this your seat?

Shame.

Yes.

Get out in front of it.

Agreed.

Yeah.

Guilty, guilty people.

Just bad enough to break the news, but to break the rules, but still people pleasey enough to be worried about it.

And but Janet, you never really got in trouble.

Never.

Like, no one yelled at Janet Varney

around this, right?

No.

Joel, when you're playing jazz at the Pentago at Inn on Tuesday nights in Castine, Maine during the summer and well into October, is there a lot of seat stealing, Joel?

Sneaking in, trying to take those good seats.

There's this one guy that keeps coming with a beer, hiding behind a bush and sitting on a sidewalk.

Yeah, well, that's me, Joel.

He's stealing jazz.

Jazz should be free.

It's in in the air.

No, it's all reservations.

You know, Janet, did you know that we haven't covered Maine yet?

Do you know what the motto of Maine is?

And all that jazz?

Jazz is in the air.

Everyone knows.

Everyone knows.

Yeah,

when they think of Maine, you think of jazz.

Hey, jazz.

That's right.

You think of, well, and well, you're...

Welcome to Jazzland.

Welcome to Jazzland.

That's what it says on the bridge.

I would say, you know,

Jennifer,

here's the truth.

I am a rule-following only child.

The idea of sneaking up a section in my life,

even contemplating it, I would worry that I would get a stroke and die.

The idea of breaking that rule, breaking that regimented seating pattern,

it was so scary to me, not merely because it was a rule, however arbitrary, but also because

what you feel, the fear that you will be confronted by someone,

and in this case, confronted by someone who knows about and cares about sports, therefore, by definition, my mortal enemy as a child.

I would be scared that a sports, a sports O would want to thump me on my head or gouge me in my soft tissues like Janet Varney does, gets in the eyes, up in the nostrils.

I'd be afeard of everything.

I'd be just terrified that I was even at a sports game because what am I doing there?

I don't belong.

but over time i've come to appreciate that it's fine like

everyone is pretty chill for the most part and if they're not

well if they're not chill i've got an idea for you but for the most part if you want if you notice in the middle of the game or whatever there are just two seats that are hanging out empty all this time it's okay to go there

It is actually beneficial, I think, to your mental health to be able to breathe through the the initial discomfort and appreciate that the worst case scenario is not that bad.

It's someone coming up going like, hey, you're in my seat and like, oh, you got me.

It's okay.

I'll go back to my seat.

Sorry about that.

But I understand.

They'll get it.

And I'll tell you what, if someone starts to really get a little aggro or more upset than they should be, take a tip from David Reese, the de-escalating question of all time.

Do you know what time it is?

Suddenly, I've seen him do it on people who are having huge fights on the subway.

Just go and say, hey, do you know what time it is?

And all of a sudden, it's like they reset their brains because

they got to fulfill the social compact and tell this stranger what time it is.

Try that if it ever gets out of hand, but I don't think that it ever will.

And here's the thing, Jennifer.

I think that it's important that you express to Thomas that this makes you uncomfortable.

And I think Thomas should not bully you into doing this.

So ultimately, if you're like, I just don't feel comfortable doing it, it's like having Scott's butt in your bathroom.

You can veto it.

But I would say, give it a try.

Try to

tolerate the distress of this small and ultimately inconsequential rule breaking that hurts no one because the seat might just be empty for the entire time.

And if someone comes in,

it's not a big deal.

Well, guys, we took a quick break after we recorded that question.

It will not be audible to you and the listening audience, but we took a quick break that was edited out.

And I want to get back to the silly nonsense in a second

or the moderately silly nonsense, not all nonsense on this program.

I mean, I think compared to a lot of things these days, it's very silly nonsense.

And by the way, sometimes we need a little silly nonsense, but

why don't you explain what just happened?

Yeah, so I'm in the studio at our office at MacArthur Park right now.

I got a text from my colleague Bryna, who runs the Put This On shop.

She's in our other office in the same building.

And she said, do you see the military vehicles outside?

Yeah.

So

we went and took a look.

We obviously we work on MacArthur Park, which is in the neighborhood in Los Angeles called Westlake, that is a

lower middle class neighborhood that is substantially Central American and southern Mexican people, Oaxaca's in particular.

And

we live right on this, or we work right on this huge park, this legendary park that you've probably heard me talk about in the outros of Bullseye episodes, if you've ever listened to Bullseye.

We could hear a helicopter circling here in the studio and went out to the window and

our our building and the park are truly right now surrounded by military vehicles, dozens of military vehicles, soldiers with machine guns all over the street,

a few

horse trucks.

I did not see any

horses out on the street, but definitely horse trailers and

a huge military helicopter that is circling the park right now.

What looks like on the far side of the park, a bunch of

the sort of unmarked vans that ICE has been using to kidnap people.

So we can only presume that

the military are there to defend

ICE or Homeland Security who are conducting immigration raids out there.

You know, you're obviously not listening to this in real time.

And we have, we called Community Response Network.

There's not almost any people in the park.

I presume that people have left.

But I wanted to take this opportunity to say, like, this is our neighborhood where we have worked for 13 years.

I lived in this neighborhood,

just down the road in Koreatown for years before that.

We love this neighborhood.

I have

two pals that live in this neighborhood and are undocumented.

And

that

the city of Los Angeles

doesn't want this here.

And we,

at Maximum Fun, you know, I'm not the owner of Maximum Fun anymore, but I know I speak for

my colleagues who are outside the studio right now.

And

those whose feelings about this, I know when I say we don't want this here,

we love our neighbors.

We're proud to be part of this neighborhood and have been for a long time.

And it really makes me sad and angry to see this happening in my neighborhood.

So, yeah, I mean, you might not be listening in real time, but it's also important to,

it's an important reminder that this can happen at any time

right now in these terrifying times, and it can happen

where you live.

and um and it's very very scary to contemplate and witness is witnessing it i think is even worse and obviously the worst thing is is becoming a victim of it and it might be a good time to mention again the the work that you've been promoting and we've been promoting with all otrelado yeah um i'm i'm glad that you i'm glad that you brought that up um

uh because

i would love for this to to be, you know, obviously, this is a really

upsetting thing that is happening, but

there are a lot of folks out there working really hard to defend themselves and their communities

and defend people who

deserve support and defense.

We have been working with an organization called Alo Trolado, who do direct service for migrants.

They're focused on the border, but they also work a lot with people in detention.

Obviously,

at this point, anyone could end up in the immigration detention system, frankly, anyone who's not walking around with their passport, which is almost anyone on the streets of the United States.

And

they offer both humanitarian assistance and

legal help.

They had programs that were directly funded by the federal government to inform people who are seeking refugee status, which is many of the people who are being deported,

of their legal rights.

Those programs were defunded.

And so they no longer have the funding from the government to tell people their rights.

People are obviously do not have access to lawyers in many cases.

And even many people who have lawyers,

their lawyers are unable to access them because people frankly do not know where they are.

So, yeah, so I hope that you will take this opportunity of this really dark thing happening outside our office.

And again, we'll get back to fun stuff in a second, but

to support a lautrolado who are doing really important direct work.

The URL is aotrolado.org slash let's do something.

It's just a way like, if you got a hundred bucks, bucks, go to that URL, send them a hundred bucks or sign up to give 10 or 20 bucks a month.

They do really awesome direct work.

It is an efficient use of your money to help people directly.

Besides that, if you live in one of these places where

ICE has been active, something helpful that you can do is

Google community response networks in your area.

You will find networks of people who let people know where these raids are happening.

It's something that I've, you know, as I mentioned,

I have another pal who

runs the food truck where I get lunch most days.

Her folks are undocumented and work with her.

They have to continue working.

And she's been monitoring the community response networks to make sure that they're safe when ICE is in the neighborhood.

So

that's another valuable thing you can do.

You can also record people who, if you see people being detained, you can record them being detained and ask for their names and ask for contact phone numbers

for their family members so that their family members can know that they were detained because they're often not given the opportunity to contact their family members.

Which, I mean, talk about distress tolerance, right?

That seems like an extremely terrifying thing to do.

And what you're talking about, Jesse, is taking video of people who are in the midst of being intercepted or detained and asking their phone and telephone number to be able to make that available to their family members.

But is there a community response number in Los Angeles that you particularly recommend or an organization?

Yeah, the number to call in LA

is.

The Rapid Response Network, which is 888-624-4752.

This is in Los Angeles, 888-624-4752.

But if you Google, you can find it for your local area.

The one point that I would make, because I'm sure that many people who are listening to this

understand very intimately the stuff that's going on.

There is one thing that I would like to share based on my own experience, which is, you know, people might know this, but I worked a little bit in an immigration law firm, one of the top immigration law firms in the country, for which my wife worked for a number of years

as a paralegal before she went to law school.

My wife never ended up practicing law, but went to law school with the intention of becoming an immigration attorney.

And

there is, for folks who have not firsthand experienced the immigration system in the United States, there is this presumption that there is a quote-unquote right way to do it,

that coming into the United States the right way is

a pathway that is available to people.

The reality of the situation on the ground is that

that is not available to people.

There is no right way that is available to people.

The visa quotas are so low for the countries from which people might actually like to come

that the lottery system for visas often takes decades.

And obviously, people who are moving from one country to another are usually doing so for reasons that are much more pressing than decade-long timelines.

The

applications for refugee and asylum status that are

required to be available by international law and by any sense of moral decency are

things that our immigration system tries to prevent people from accessing.

And to the extent that they are able from accessing them, it often takes years,

even just to get court dates.

And

these days, when people are showing up for their court dates,

even when their court dates are, you know, they show up and something gets postponed, which is very often the result, people are getting put in ICE detention and deported.

So, if you have, if you are imagining that people who are in this country undocumented are here because they are not interested in following our laws,

that is a false assumption.

It's also a false assumption that undocumented people use more resources than they provide to the government of the United States.

Undocumented people pay taxes,

they pay taxes at a higher rate than documented people on average.

And most of the biggest tax costs of having someone in the United States are costs that undocumented people cannot access.

So that's primarily entitlements, which is most of the non-military spending of the United States government, the federal government, is on social security and so forth.

And those are programs that undocumented people are unable to access, despite the fact that they generally, again, pay a higher rate of tax than documented people.

So those are two misconceptions about undocumented people in the United States.

That if you had, if they were like, you know, itching at the back of your brain,

they

do not, they are not real.

They are not functional truths in our country.

There is not an immigration system that allows people to become

citizens or even access visas the quote-unquote right way, generally speaking.

There is is also,

it is not the case that immigrants use more resources than they pay to our government.

So I just wanted to mention those to you.

Yeah, and you know,

the Constitution of the United States affords due process in our criminal and legal system in general to all persons in the United States.

It is not

exclusive to citizens of the United States.

It is plain language.

All persons in the United States are entitled to due process under the law, including the right to an attorney, the right to consult an attorney, the right to, you know, face your accuser.

All of those due process rights are afforded under our constitution to all persons.

And that is why I say that I consider personally, I'm not an attorney or a constitutional scholar, but I think it's pretty plain.

that these abductions are extra-legal and certainly anti-constitutional.

So

we have the issue going on all over the country, indeed, even here in Maine.

ICE is being constantly spotted and performing raids throughout this state

because Maine, just like every other state and Commonwealth in the Union, relies on folks from other countries to do a lot of the work around here.

So I will just drop

a website that I'm ashamed to admit, I only just now discovered, which is iLAPMaine, I-L-A-P-M-A-I-N-E

dot org, which is the immigrant legal advocacy project for folks here in Maine.

And I guarantee you that if you were to do a simple search to find similar community organizations in your area, you will find it as quickly as I did.

And it will behoove you to be prepared for when you see something like this.

happening in your community to feel less powerless if you are empowered with information to help directly help people who are being taken off the streets and put away in terror.

So there.

Let's take a quick break.

We'll be back in just a second with more of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

This break will be a great opportunity for you to go to allothrulado.org slash let's do something, the link for which is in our show description.

And guess what?

When we come back, we'll go back to being fun.

You can also use the bathroom if you would like to.

Yeah, exactly.

You can look at a photo of Scott's butt while you do it if you like.

Take a photo of Scott's butt.

We got the photo right there on our social media.

Take it into the bathroom for a little bit.

Do some Googling, make some calls, check in on your people, come back.

We'll be silly in a moment.

We'll be back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge John Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from clearing the docket.

We have Janet Varney here, and Janet is the co-host of ePluribus Motto with you, sir.

Janet, we've talked a lot about ePluribus Motto.

It's a podcast that celebrates and explores a lot of state trivia focused on the state mottos, mammals, monsters, and more, official and unofficial of every state, Commonwealth, district, and territory in this so far United States.

Where can people listen to us talk about all these states?

They can listen to it anywhere they get their podcasts.

We are on the Maximum Fund network.

You can go to maximumfund.org slash epleribusmato.

You can reach out to us through a couple of different means.

Head over to that site and check us out.

Again, you can also subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and it is a delight.

And here's a thing that we're hoping that you will help us out with.

If you have a regional accent, when we're covering a bunch of different states and territories and stuff in season two, including Maryland, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kentucky, New Mexico, Oregon, Iowa, Pennsylvania, Nevada, and Washington, D.C.

Do you have a regional accent from any of these areas?

We'd love to hear it and feature it on the show.

Speak to us at speakpipe.com/slash e pluribusmato.

Speakpipe.com/slash e pluribusmato.

You'll go there.

There'll be a button there.

You just press the button and speak into the pipe and audition your accent for us.

or tell us anything you want us to know about the state or commonwealth or territory or district in which you live and I hope love?

Jesse, what do you've got going on these days?

Well, Jordan and I, co-hosts of Jordan Jesse Go, will be in San Francisco at a little theater in the Mission District called the Eclectic Box on August 22nd.

So go to maximumfund.org slash events and get your tickets.

As I said, it is a real little theater.

We're just doing it because Jordan's going to be in town for Cape and Cowl Con in Oakland.

We're going to have a great time.

I think we're going to do an entire show that is dedicated to weird stuff we've found on Reddit.

We had a great time.

We had a great time during the Max Fun Drive running a special show where

each episode was just us investigating one weird subreddit.

And I'm really excited to get into R slash ladders.

So we hope that you will join us.

We hope that you will join us in San Francisco on August 22nd.

Tickets now on sale only

at the Maximum Fund website.

Maximumfund.org/slash events is where to go.

Maximumfund.org slash events.

My brothers will be working the door, so don't mess with us.

All right.

Let's get back to the docket.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, live from Occupied Los Angeles.

Friend of the show, Janet Varney from the ePluribus Motto podcast with John Hodgman is here

with us.

She's also from Cora,

The Adventures of.

Sure.

Legend of.

No,

that would be Hercules, The Legendary Journey.

Let's not talk about that guy.

Okay, here's a case from Rachel in Clausen, Michigan.

If our dog is barking a lot, my husband will ask, is someone here?

Our dog will stop barking and run to the window to look for these non-existent visitors.

My husband says this distraction, quote, shuts the dog up, unquote.

I think it's mean.

Our dog loves visitors.

I seek a cease and desist ruling against my husband from teasing our dog.

Teasing the dog.

Jesse, Janet.

You both are human companions to wonderful dogs, correct?

I mean, I'm companion to dogs.

Yeah.

No.

I'm not going to make a value judgment.

Janet,

tell us about you.

If you're willing to be nice about your dog,

tell us about your dog.

We're dogs.

Yeah.

Well, I have certainly had other dog companions and been a companion to other dogs.

Right now,

my remaining alive dog is a wonderful.

His name is Jasper.

He is incredibly smart.

He is incredibly muttish.

He is largely what is known in the DNA research of what your dog is world as a super mutt, capital S, super mutt.

Again, very, very bright, knows a lot of words.

I mean, I could roll right into, I mean, listen, again, this, right now, John is showing a picture of of my dog wearing taped up glasses and an ascot.

He looks like he is feeling a little embarrassed, but he knows that a treat is on the way and that he's willing to look maybe a little bit foolish for a moment.

Why is Jasper wearing eyeglasses?

He was just being photographed for a video that my friend was putting together.

But he loves doing tricks and he loves, he's just a very participative dog in our lives.

And I will admit that from time to time, we will do something very similar

because at some point when he was a puppy, if we would have like a flying insect in the room,

we didn't realize these dogs teach you what you do as a habit without you realizing it's a habit because they start to expect it.

So I didn't realize that whenever there was something flying around in the room, like a little fly or something, that we would whisper, what is that?

But apparently, that's how we respond to flying things or other little bugs.

And our dog has now been conditioned to become extremely alert and look around for whatever the thing is that we're talking about so that he may chase it.

So from time to time,

one of us might say, what is that?

Just to see him perk up and look around excitedly in case there's a fly he can trap with his open mouth.

Just like, just like Rachel's husband is doing to their dog.

I know.

So maybe I should recuse myself from this.

I don't know.

It's so close to home.

Oh, I think you should accuse yourself.

You are a dog.

Jacuse.

Je macus.

Je mac.

I am guilty.

I am guilty as charged.

I don't feel that it does him in my particular case any harm.

I like to get him a little juiced up.

He always ends up getting a treat.

It turns into maybe some sort of a let's do some tricks and kind of get yamped up.

And he loves loves that yeah uh so but i understand again both sides i am i am cleft in twain i like john hodgerman was a not only child rule follower people pleaser but i also have a real raccoonish rebellious streak yeah now you're a seat sneaker now i'm a seat sneaker jesse thorne you ever play mind games with uh with your dogs What about Junior?

My dogs would have to have minds for me to play games.

And we don't have a dog.

We have a dumb cat.

And I call it, like, I see this cat's dumb.

I prefer to keep such things private.

I am, because today is an upsetting day, I'm going to send you all a photo

right now.

And we'll put it up here on YouTube of our cat, Lola, the dumb, dumb cat, sitting in not one, but two cat beds at the same time.

She did that of her own accord.

I used to say to her face, hey, you're really dumb.

I would tease her.

I would be mean even because she doesn't speak English, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, I know.

So I thought I could get away with it, that transgressive rush of being a bully, like when I used to throw my shoes at Elliot Kalen.

But then I had to remember the lesson of Elliot Kalen, which is it's even if you're being a bully sarcastically, it still is being a bully.

Even if your cat doesn't understand English, I don't, I don't, I don't, all I ever say to her is that she's beautiful and she's perfect in every way.

And I guess I would tease her if she were smart enough to be teased, but I'd always follow up with a treat.

Yeah.

Here is something from Chris in Little Rock, Arkansas.

My four-year-old daughter loves the YouTube show Ginger the Hamster, where a woman makes complex mazes for her pet hamster.

Now our daughter wants her own hamster, but I don't want a hamster.

I've always wanted a turtle.

Left turn here.

Every time I see a turtle, I think turtles are great.

We should get one.

My wife doesn't want a hamster or a turtle.

We already have two dogs and one cat.

She says, no more pets.

What should we do?

Look.

Great question.

Nice try, Chris and Little Rock.

You're conflating two completely separate issues.

One is whether your daughter should get a hamster.

The other is whether you should get a turtle.

He really slid it in there, didn't he?

They're two different case studies.

Not only are they two very different kinds of animals that require very different kinds of care.

Well, I don't know.

I was going to do a butt also there, but there is no butt also.

It's just that.

That's the thing.

And two different desires, one of your daughters and one of yours.

So

given that you have this pet portfolio of two dogs and one cat, is that right, Jesse?

Two dogs, one cat.

I don't know whether you should add an additional pet, but if I were to order one or the other,

Jesse and Janet, which would you have me order?

Hamster or turtle?

I have had both hamsters and turtles as pets in my life.

And I like them both.

And I've had dogs.

I've never had a cat.

I would not recommend having a hamster.

in a house with two dogs and a cat.

The hamster is going to be terrorized in its cage.

It will escape because that's what hamsters do.

And then it will either disappear forever and you will find it desiccated in the back corner of your closet, like we did with my frog, Boutros, Boutros, Froggy.

Oh, Boutros.

I know.

Or

it will have its run ended by one of the dogs or the cat.

Or in my own hamster caring for experiences, it might just get a series of weird tumors and die without escaping or being eaten.

That's my concern.

Or maybe my dad will step on it.

Oh, yeah.

Your dad stepped on your gerbil, right, Jesse?

My dad stepped on my hamster one time and then he sat me down.

He said, Jesse, I need to tell you something.

I stepped on your gerbil.

I had, when I was very little, I had my mom begrudgingly agreed to buy me two mice at a pet store, mice that were destined to be snake food.

And I was so upset when I found out that they were destined to be snake food that she decided that she would buy two of them.

We could not save them all.

We named them Bess and George after Nancy Drew's best two friends.

George was black and white with black spots.

She was, perhaps coincidentally, but it felt fortuitous that she was more athletic and tomboyish as George is in the Nancy Drew books.

And Bess was a pretty little white albino mouse with little red eyes, eyes, and she preferred to sit around looking cute.

They lived far, far longer than any mice,

I think,

would normally do,

whether they be food or not.

Just the natural life cycle of a mouse is short.

And my mom became very attached to them, as I did.

But of course, I was a child and had zero ability to be responsible.

So she tenderly cared for those two mice through thick and thin, through colds.

She would give them, she would go take them to the vet and they would get administered little antibiotics that she would give them with a tiny little syringe that would go into their mouths.

And still,

when they died, we were both shattered.

I

have had no other rodent pets in part because, and I can't recommend them to children unless you're, unless you feel like you can handle teaching them about death when they're very young and you think that's going to be good for them, then perhaps.

But I was a very fragile child.

I had to be led out of like a Bambi special screening in the theater because Bambi's mom got killed.

Like, I just don't handle that stuff.

Was it just you?

You were the only person?

It was just me.

My dad was trying to teach me about death.

No, you know,

I was not alive when Bambi hit the theaters the first time around.

So I think it was like, but it was a big deal that it was like, back to watch in, you know, in movie theater form.

And I was wailing so loud that I had to be removed from the theater when Bambi's mom got killed.

So I was not a a kid who handled that kind of thing well.

And so if your child is sensitive above and beyond having other pets, which I 1000% agree with my colleagues here who are saying perhaps

it's not a good fit for a hamster in that particular home, even if you didn't have other pets, I still worry about a hamster and a child because I think that your heart gets broken very easily with animals who die quickly.

Also mentioned mentioned about hamsters that they're moderately bad pets.

So that's a big stack of reasons that are kind of

coming up.

Chris, if you came to me from Little Rock, Arkansas on your own and said, hey,

I want to get a turtle

because every time I look at a turtle, I'm like, that's cool.

I should get one.

Gavel down, you don't get a turtle, dude.

That's not the reason to get a turtle.

Every time you see one, you think it's cool.

Yeah, that's why you go to a zoo.

It's why you go to a pet store like Jay Evans and I used to do on all in Harvard Street and Alston, just to stare at all the herps and the axolotls and the tanks.

Then you go home and let someone else take care of them.

If your daughter came to me and say, hey, I'm watching a YouTube or a

social media account of a woman who makes mazes for her hamster ginger and I want to get one,

don't get a pet because you see something on social media.

That's not a good enough reason.

If you were going to do that, why wouldn't you just get a capy bar that goes on the couch?

Jesse, you see this video of the capybara that goes on a couch?

I have not.

I've seen capy bars that go in swimming pools.

Yeah, Dark Wings Wildlife.

I'll plug them.

They got two capybars.

Pumpkin's one of them.

They live outside, but they let them in the house.

There you go.

You've got two wonderful, I presume, dogs and one wonderful, I am confident, cats in there already.

And think of the trauma that they'll go through if you introduce something new.

Don't do it.

Now,

eventually, Chris, get your daughter and put her right in front of the podcast machine.

Eventually, one of your dogs or cats is going to die.

Uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh.

When one of them passes away, then it's time to investigate getting a copy bar

and make a million dollars on Instagram and support your family.

But you have to go through whatever training is required.

And also, this is not real advice.

And also, don't do it.

Janet, it's been a joy to have you on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

What is something that the two of you have learned recently on the ePluribus Motto podcast that I should know?

Oh, my goodness.

Where do we start?

Well, one of the things that consistently blows my mind

is that there are something like 33 states that have an official state beverage

and something like 22 of them, including kentucky yeah

joel man what would you guess is the state beverage of kentucky

have to be some kind of bourbon no it's milk milk joel milk milk it's always milk

it's always milk the dairy lobby is so strong in these states what's maine's state beverage of maine

alcoholic or yeah

alan's brandy you can guess it's not alan's coffee brandy what's but you're close.

Bailey's?

No, come on.

It's a non-alcoholic refresher.

I wouldn't know them.

Moxie, Joel.

Moxie.

Oh, God, that's awful.

The docket is clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

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The podcast is edited by A.J.

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content.

Janet Varney, I've got a question for you.

Do you have a favorite comfort food?

Macaroni and cheese and tomato soup, for example, or

chicken noodle soup or chicken soup with rice?

It is chicken soup with rice.

Thank you for finally getting to it because it is chicken soup with rice.

I love chicken soup with rice.

Oh.

And you hate chicken soup with noodles, right?

Most of the time I can't eat.

I can't.

Okay.

All right.

If they're gluten-free noodles, I'm fine.

If they're not, I will be very sick.

Well, we need some disputes about comfort foods.

We have the wonderful Kenji Lopez-Alt and Deb Perelman from the wonderful podcast they do together called The Recipe.

Of course, individually, Kenji Lopez-Alt is the author of The Food Lab and an incredible book on cooking with a walk.

And Deb is obviously the creator of The Smitten Kitchen.

And together they do a wonderful podcast called The Recipe, in which they deconstruct all kinds of iconic and often comfort foods.

And they're going to join us for a special comfort food docket.

So

we've got quite a few, I must say, but we still need more comfort food disputes.

and hot takes.

Have you made Kenji's best chili ever recipe, but omitted the Marmite and the coffee and the anchovies?

Controversial.

Do you like chicken soup, but without noodles or rice?

Are you a matzo ball person and why?

Send us all of your comfort food hot takes and let us know what you value most when you're eating a comfort food.

Joel, what's your comfort food?

Gumbo.

Gumbo.

Nice.

Chicken, a double sausage, and shrimp.

Oh, okay.

I was going to say, just write the word gumbo into an email to me at hodgman at maximumfun.org, or better yet, a dispute about why gumbo should have okra or filet.

Which, Joel,

what do you use as a thickener?

I make a roux.

Okay, and some Allen's coffee brandy, I'm sure.

Send in your comfort food disputes to me and Jesse at hodgman at maximumfund.org.

That's an email address, which is open and I will read it.

Or you can fill out the form at maximumfund.org slash JJ H O.

And we want to hear all your disputes, right, Jesse?

Indeed, but can I read this poem?

Of course, please.

In July, I'll take a peep into the cool and fishy deep where chicken soup is selling cheap.

Selling once, selling twice, selling chicken soup with rice.

We're celebrating July with our friend Maury Sendak as

represented on my upper arm.

Take a picture of that tattoo and put it in your bathroom.

The docket is clear.

Maximumfund.org/slash JJHO is where to submit all of your cases on any subject.

And we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artists-owned shows, supported directly by you.