Snack Judgment with Michael Ian Black & Tom Cavanagh

Speaker 1 Recording in progress.

Speaker 2 Jesse, what were you eating? What was your snack?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 what were you eating?

Speaker 3 I was eating some potato chips.

Speaker 1 You can't, you don't know, it doesn't stop at something.

Speaker 2 What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 This is some potato chips.

Speaker 2 We need brand.

Speaker 3 Saving it for the air.

Speaker 1 Hey, you know what? Let's we're recording. This is definitely going to be how we open the show.
Because guess what?

Speaker 1 At the end of the episode, we're all going to take a guess as to what kind of potato chips Jesse was eating. Whoever gets closest wins a brand new Lisa mattress.

Speaker 3 Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket. And with me, as always, is Judge John Hodgman.

Speaker 1 Here I am, as always. I'm Judge John Hodgman.
And when we are recording this, I don't know when you are, but when we are recording this,

Speaker 1 it is between Thanksgiving,

Speaker 1 worst holiday on earth, and the winter holidays, Christmas, Hanukkah, New Year's Eve, Kwanzaa,

Speaker 1 Saturnalia,

Speaker 1 all of the wonderful winter solstice holidays that matter. We're leaving Thanksgiving in the dust where it belongs.
But it means it's the holiday season. I can tell our two guests are upset.

Speaker 1 I love to stir controversy. It's a controversial podcast, right, Jesse? Indeed.

Speaker 3 We touch on all the hot button issues.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 They call us in the podcast, the podcasting magazines, the two hottest button pushers in podcasting, Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. We're just stirring the feces pot with our hot, hot takes.

Speaker 1 We'll discuss Thanksgiving in a moment, I suppose. But the point is, holiday season, we're bombarded with snacks.
Wouldn't you say, Jesse? Bombarded.

Speaker 3 It's like the London Blitz, but with snacks.

Speaker 1 That's right. We have to.

Speaker 1 We have to cover up the headlights on our cars or else people are going to just

Speaker 1 throw tins of popcorn at us or various homemade treats that you get around this time of year. Dresden would have been a lot happier if that was the case.

Speaker 3 Our guests on the program, podcasters, actors, two of the world's preeminent snackologists, they co-host the podcast, Mike and Tom Eat Snacks, Michael Ian Black and Tom Kavanaugh.

Speaker 3 Michael, Tom, welcome to Judge John Hodgman.

Speaker 2 It's an honor and a pleasure to be in chambers with the famous Judge John Hodgman and his trusty bailiff, Jesse.

Speaker 2 And I hate, hate that we're starting off our appearance on this podcast with an argument, but Thanksgiving is the worst holiday. The hell is the matter with you?

Speaker 1 Tom, back me up on this. I second your motion.

Speaker 2 It's the best. It's literally the best holiday.

Speaker 1 Can I just say I'm glad we got objection overruled out in the first 30 seconds because that's low-hanging fruit and we're professionals.

Speaker 1 I also like, Judge John Hodgman, that you came out of the gate going, like, my opinion is my opinion. And here it is, masses.
I like the fact that you are stirring a feces pot. Is there social media?

Speaker 1 If there is social media, it's a flame. Look, I like to get the blood pumping.
I like to get the conversational juices

Speaker 1 simmering as though I'm making a big pot of turkey stock to make some delicious gravy. I love gravy.
But here's the thing. I don't like Thanksgiving.
I've said it before in this podcast.

Speaker 1 I'll say it again. These reasons.

Speaker 1 It's a bunch of national mythologizing that is questionable at best. I don't care about it.
Two,

Speaker 1 it comes too close to the better holidays. And

Speaker 1 I don't need, it's a great way to ruin a great long weekend. You know what I mean? With a bunch of chores.

Speaker 2 Your honor. I mean, I don't know if we go through this point by point.
I don't know what we do.

Speaker 2 to address this because this podcast only is only going to be so long and i know it's not going to be primarily focused on thanksgiving so i will just begin and end with the following retort.

Speaker 2 You're so wrong. It's criminal, you

Speaker 1 wow.

Speaker 1 I had a, I was trying to run rings around you. I was good.
I was good.

Speaker 1 I was looking forward to trying to run rings around you logically, but it's like when you knock Wolf Britser out with a punch to the throat, leave it there. Am I right? That's on our podcast.

Speaker 1 In case you want to visit our podcast. Yeah, your podcast is called Mike and Tom Eat Snacks, also known as Mates.

Speaker 1 That is the initialism for it, M-A-T-E-S. And here's the thing:

Speaker 1 in the court of Judge John Hodgman, long settled law, people like what they like. If you like Thanksgiving, great.
If you love Thanksgiving, terrific for you. It's all about taste, as is your podcast.

Speaker 1 Michael or Tom, tell me a little bit about your podcast. You decide who.
A long time ago. No, Michael.

Speaker 1 The two of you worked together in the wonderful television program Ed. Oh, you know about that.
Is that how you, of course?

Speaker 2 That is how we,

Speaker 2 that is how we made each other's acquaintance on the moderately lived NBC. Would you call it a dramedy or a

Speaker 2 comma? It's more a romantic comedy. It's a romantic comedy.

Speaker 1 I don't reckon it matters at this point.

Speaker 2 I suppose not.

Speaker 2 Since you can't watch it anywhere and never will be able to.

Speaker 1 I tried to re-watch Ed recently because I had enjoyed it so much and discovered very very hard to find, I'm sorry to say. And Michael, you told me because of music rights.

Speaker 1 You went too many times to the Smash Mouth well, I believe.

Speaker 1 I think it was, yes, it was exactly.

Speaker 1 And who wouldn't?

Speaker 3 Hey, now, John. Hey, now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, get your game on.

Speaker 2 So, um, yeah, we met, we met on Ed. I played the titular character, Ed.
Tom was a

Speaker 2 supporting character, but but

Speaker 2 he did a great, he did a a great job as the bowling alley scruff.

Speaker 1 Listen, this is a wonderful podcast. I've been listening to it for years.
I enjoy you both so much. It's one of the great hang podcasts.

Speaker 1 It's been away for a while. It's just come back.
You have a new network, correct? Yes.

Speaker 2 Realm is their name.

Speaker 1 Okay. Is that the name, or did you just think of that?

Speaker 1 That's good.

Speaker 2 I'm hoping that's the name of it. And laughs are the coin of that realm.
realm.

Speaker 1 Very good. I like it.
Laughs and snacks. You guys get together.
You chat for a while. You make each other happy and you eat some snacks.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 We also rate the snack just so that listeners or viewers, and we don't know which they are, receive

Speaker 2 well-articulated, reasoned snack advice. So they're not wasting their precious time and money on garbage snacks.
Right.

Speaker 1 And what is the rating? What is the ranking system? One to ten?

Speaker 2 It's one to ten.

Speaker 1 Gop snackers or it.

Speaker 2 No, it's just, it's just a, it's just one to ten. It's a numerical system.
You can get half points. And sometimes, sometimes the snack escapes the bounds of the per system.

Speaker 2 For example.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got to give me, you got, I, you got to give me an example.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't raise the topic if I wasn't going to give you an example, John. It was too, it's too important.

Speaker 2 We once, uh,

Speaker 2 I'll give you a positive and a negative. The negative one was we once rated Kroger's very

Speaker 2 cherry, it was like jelly belly cherry pudding. And I think we rated it as poison.

Speaker 1 Evil. No, evil.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 entirely possible.

Speaker 2 But then the positive one was,

Speaker 2 who made chocolate chip cookies, which exist outside of the bounds of the PERS system because they vary so much in quality and because they're so sort of delectable and

Speaker 2 subjective that they just sort of exist in their own category.

Speaker 1 But that was rated.

Speaker 1 That's very wise. Sorry to interrupt, Judge, but we stole from the Tour de France

Speaker 1 and when you exceed a 10, you then are qualified, you qualify as beyond category. Beyond category.

Speaker 3 They always say that in creative matters, if you're going to steal, steal from the Tour de France.

Speaker 1 They do say that.

Speaker 1 It's very wise because I would venture, like I, it's, it's known that I do not have a sweet tooth,

Speaker 1 don't care for sweets very often. I don't have a sweet tooth.
I have an alcohol molar.

Speaker 1 But I will say that chocolate chip cookies, homemade chocolate chip cookies are always great.

Speaker 1 And I would say, although they are beyond category, if I had to say, I would say I've never had a, even the worst is never lower than a seven of a fresh homemade chocolate chip cookie.

Speaker 3 I'll say that we have two people in our teleconference as we record this show who have delivered unto me spectacular homemade chocolate chip cookies: in Jennifer Marmer, our producer, and Daniel Spear, our video producer.

Speaker 3 But a gift. Both of them wonderful bakers who are kind enough to bring cookies into the office at maximum fun.
Make sure that I get some and John doesn't.

Speaker 1 Yep.

Speaker 3 And they're both spectacular. I have an important question, and it comes direct from our docket, if I may.

Speaker 1 Yes, please. Please.

Speaker 3 Think potential 459,

Speaker 3 who is a poster on the mates subreddit,

Speaker 3 wanted to know

Speaker 3 what defines a snack from other kinds of foods?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 What makes something a snack rather than a meal or a nosh or whatever?

Speaker 1 It's a fantastic question. It's basically pornography.
And Michael, you can chip in next.

Speaker 1 You know, you know a snack when you see it, essentially. Michael, go ahead.

Speaker 2 That's exactly right. There are times.
Now, look, there are certain foods, and

Speaker 2 I just had an example of this, that when eaten in conjunction with a meal, you would be like, oh, that's a, that, that belongs with the meal.

Speaker 2 But then you could eat it earlier in the day, and you could be like, oh, that, that's a perfectly acceptable snack. It's like, Jesse, we have our physical body, right?

Speaker 2 But we also have our etheric body. You know, we have a body of light that just surrounds surrounds us that just extends into the universe that

Speaker 2 is with snacks you know that jesse you know about your etheric body so i have a physical body john just so you know in a in an etheric body oh yeah yeah yeah yeah no i remember and so it's very difficult to say where the physical ends and the etheric begins same thing with snacks and meals it's very difficult it's subjective Michael, Michael, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 Could I ask

Speaker 1 Tom the same question in hopes that I could get an answer? Sure.

Speaker 1 Thank you. What's the difference between a meal and a snack, Tom?

Speaker 1 I don't want to throw magic.

Speaker 1 He's exactly right. The pornography answers that.

Speaker 3 He gave a very important answer. I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 You like the important answer, but you won't feel like that moves the case forward. Look,

Speaker 1 I'm a mundane person.

Speaker 1 I want, yeah, I'm

Speaker 1 specificity is the soul of snack definition as far as. I like that.
I like the specificity.

Speaker 1 I don't know necessarily that you can specify because there's times when you got a handful of stuff in your pocket,

Speaker 1 it's going to be a snack. But that same handful, say you got like a bag of beans, John, right?

Speaker 1 That bag of beans is that bag of beans is your snack, but that beans on a plate at your Thanksgiving dinner.

Speaker 2 But that same handful of beans

Speaker 2 after a day of trekking. from one fairyland location to the next might constitute your only meal of the day.
It's all, it's contextual. So much of the time, it's contextual.
We don't know.

Speaker 2 Yes, snacks have an element of mobility to them, but not all snacks are portable. Like, you're not going to, you're not going to stuff your, your pockets full of guacamole and go strolling about.

Speaker 2 I take that back. I take it back.
I knew as soon as the words came out of my mouth.

Speaker 1 I could see, like, I can see your shifty eyes shift. You're talking about my brand new product, Pacamole? Pacamole.

Speaker 3 Trademark.

Speaker 3 Here's something from Ann in Lake Zurich, Illinois. Her dispute with her entire family.
Uh-oh. She says, when we're on a long drive, I pack a snack bag and a cooler.

Speaker 3 I don't want to share the snacks with my family unless they are appropriately excited.

Speaker 3 If I've done the planning to make sure that we have snacks, I want the people in my car to meet me at my level of enthusiasm.

Speaker 3 Specifically, in order to share the car snacks, please order my family shout snacks to the tune of LMFAO's shots.

Speaker 1 And unlike Zurich wants her family to chant, how does it go, Jesse? Snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks.

Speaker 1 Or else she will not give them to her family, her own husband and children.

Speaker 3 One time I was in an airport, and I saw this ridiculous man. I thought, who does this guy think he is? The guy from LMFAO? And I looked it up and it was the guy from LMFAO.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's great.

Speaker 3 It was in a whole outfit and a whole nine yards, just looking like a cartoon character from a TV commercial.

Speaker 1 Now, Mike and Tom, I did a little background investigation to get some more detail here that may or may not help you in determining whether.

Speaker 2 Oh, I've already reached my verdict. I suspect Tom's reached his verdict as well.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 She lost the case from the first sentence.

Speaker 1 The first sentence being: When we are on a long drive, I pack a snack bag in a cooler.

Speaker 2 Yes, she lost the case with that sentence. When you are on a long car ride, you do not pre-pack snacks in a cooler.

Speaker 2 You stop at the gas station and you go crazy.

Speaker 1 That's the way you snack on a road trip.

Speaker 2 The idea that you're going to like

Speaker 2 pre-plan snacks when you have such a great opportunity on this long road trip to be spontaneous with your snacking, to to

Speaker 2 enter some buckies,

Speaker 2 you're going to rob your flesh and blood of that opportunity, that spontaneity.

Speaker 2 Honestly,

Speaker 2 the snacks chant is great. And yes, that that should be de rigueur in this family.
There should be a snacks chant.

Speaker 1 Well, there's a couple of things about this. You know,

Speaker 1 it is your right as

Speaker 1 you snack how you snack. And it is your right to pack a cooler.
Are you then unable, if the trip is long enough, you're going to be able to go to Bucky's and

Speaker 1 go wild should you want to? Also, maybe if you live in Lake Zurich, Illinois, go to the real Lake Zurich. That's just me.
But

Speaker 1 the other side of things here is also

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 you snack how you snack.

Speaker 1 You could pack the cooler. Hear me out, Magic, because you're shaking your head.

Speaker 1 You're shaking your head. Oh, no, I'm nodding, Tom.

Speaker 1 Let the record show, for those of you who are watching on our YouTube channel, Michael is shaking his head. I'm nodding.

Speaker 1 And Jesse's waggling his fingers, imagining imaginary bugles on top. Snacking is a very personal thing, but there are certain rules.

Speaker 1 One is like, you definitely do want to go walk the snack out of life. That's the freedom of a road trip.

Speaker 1 If you want to create the romanticism of the open road with that freedom, you do want to do that. If you're a different person than Magic and I, you might pack a cooler.

Speaker 1 You might just do it your way. Now you're in the car and you're trying to address the question.
And part of it is this, in my circle, you want my snacks and I'm at the wheel.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 you're going to do your chant. you're going to do whatever you want if you want the snack if i'm at the wheel i'm not at the wheel and i want a snack.
You got to feed the driver. If you're driving,

Speaker 1 you shouldn't be forced to chant. I feel like to address this specific question, one thing that was left out was whether the person writing in was

Speaker 1 behind the wheel, or if they're in the backseat going, hoarding snacks, it's a whole different thing. On the other hand, if you have the snacks, they're your rules.

Speaker 1 And so I sort of do agree that, like, look, if what you need is this,

Speaker 1 your snack rules are your snack rules. Well, Tom, I did do some background investigations for you, and I can tell you this.

Speaker 1 The snacks in question are typically pub pretzels, Twizzlers, sparkling ice water for the kids. Oh, kids.
And a Coke for the driver who is her husband.

Speaker 2 I don't like any of this. I don't like

Speaker 2 any part of this.

Speaker 1 And the reason that she's packing the snacks is that

Speaker 1 they're typically driving back from a concert like the Abbott Brothers concert at Summerfest in Milwaukee or a football game at UW-Madison. They're on a long drive home.
They're tired.

Speaker 1 She's trying to keep the energy up

Speaker 1 rather than so that they can get home happily, I guess, and fed.

Speaker 2 What is going to pique the kids' excitement, energy, and intrigue more?

Speaker 2 The chant of snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, snacks, knowing that at the end of that, you're going to get a handful of pub pretzels.

Speaker 1 You might get Twizzlers.

Speaker 2 You might.

Speaker 2 The promise of, hey, guys,

Speaker 2 there's a Buckeys up ahead. Do you want to stop and go nuts?

Speaker 2 And the answer to that is going to be, yes. Yes, mom.
Yes, mommy. And we love you more because of it.

Speaker 1 I'll say this. This is going to be

Speaker 1 my final ruling. I'm going to weigh in.

Speaker 1 I actually ruled against Anne in the New York Times column, Judge John Hodgman, very recently.

Speaker 1 So I'm glad to get another bite at the pub pub pretzel here to say, once again, Ann, with great respect, you're a wonderful weird mom, but you're wrong.

Speaker 1 Don't force fun on your family when they're just trying to relax after a long, big concert or football game. They're probably tired.

Speaker 2 I question how much the kids really wanted to go see the Avitt brothers. I'll be honest.
I'm not sure the kids were that psyched about it.

Speaker 3 They wanted to go see the Hold Steady. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 They want to see the Holstead.

Speaker 1 You know, Mike and Tom, I want to ask you another question about road trip snacks, but I believe we're going to take a little break. Is that right, Jesse Thorne?

Speaker 3 Indeed. We're going to talk about who supports this program.
We'll be back with more on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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Speaker 3 Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
We're clearing the docket. We've got Michael Ian Black and Tom Kavanaugh with us.

Speaker 3 Here is a case from Shelby in Jefferson, Indiana. What is the correct way to eat a fruit roll-up? Now, you'd think the question would

Speaker 3 end there, but we got got two more paragraphs to go. Oh, I like to unwrap the roll-up, wad it up, and take a big bite.
Oh, it's the easiest and most satisfying way.

Speaker 3 But all my coworkers, except for Gwen, say that I'm eating my fruit roll-up like a barbarian.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I think Gwen is just being nice. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Gwen thinks. Gwen is nice.

Speaker 3 I mean, you got to hand it to Gwen. She's a nice lady.
My colleagues, including my husband, unroll and take bites from left to right. I want everyone at work to admit I eat fruit roll-ups correctly.

Speaker 3 I also want to watch all of them eat watered-up fruit roll-ups at our next staff meeting.

Speaker 1 So, wait a minute. How would you? It's been a long time since I've interrogated a fruit roll-up.

Speaker 1 I find them to be gross and sweet, two things I don't like. But my memory is they are rolled up and you unroll them.
Mike, Tom, what am I misremembering here?

Speaker 1 You're not misremembering anything.

Speaker 1 Is that correct? They are 100%. They're rolled up and you can kind of stickily unwrap them.
I'm on the record as saying I like a chewy, kind of fruity,

Speaker 1 chewy fruit-based snack very much. I like a certain consistency.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I find it interesting that in addition to, it sounds like working with her husband, she's also bringing up,

Speaker 1 she's opening the can of worms and crossing the street to

Speaker 1 throw some salvos. It just seems to me that what she's doing is she's unrolling the roll-up only to wad it back up again.
And wouldn't that be a choking hazard at that point, Michaelian Black?

Speaker 1 What do you say, Magic?

Speaker 2 It could be, although the fruit roll-up is water-soluble. So if it gets stuck in your throat over time, it will dissolve.

Speaker 2 Will there be be enough time before you choke to death? I don't know. And frankly, I don't care.

Speaker 3 Just suck on a hose and you're all set.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Jesse. Just suck on a hose and you're all set.

Speaker 1 Words of wisdom.

Speaker 2 I think the problem in this scenario, if I had to identify one problem, it's Gwen.

Speaker 1 I feel like we're going two for two on Gwen. And once again, writing in and going, wait a minute.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Gwen, I feel

Speaker 3 by my own petard again.

Speaker 2 She's sabotaging not not only who's who's the author? What's her name?

Speaker 1 Shelby. Shelby.
Jefferson, Indiana.

Speaker 2 She's not only sabotaging Shelby, she's also sabotaging the entire office.

Speaker 2 And I don't know if this is a weird power move on her part. I don't know if she's trying to pit one faction against the other.
You don't think so?

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's a weird, I don't know, necessarily it's a weird power move. I think it's more, I think there's a passivity here that comes out

Speaker 1 in the detail that

Speaker 1 she's like,

Speaker 1 you're doing fine. You're doing fine.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 But everybody else in the office knows that Gwen is just placating Shelby. Everybody knows that.

Speaker 1 Gwen, we don't know what the power dynamics are here, but it sounds like Gwen is sucking up to the boss.

Speaker 2 I don't know. I think, let's say it's a bank, for example.
I think they could both be tellers.

Speaker 2 you know, and and and Gwen's looking over at Shelby's till as Shelby is wadding up a fruit roll-up to to the size of a softball and cramming it into her gob.

Speaker 2 And she's going, oh, you're, that's right, Shelby, you're doing great. And everybody else, all the other tellers are looking over like, what are you doing, Gwen? What are you doing?

Speaker 2 You're encouraging this behavior.

Speaker 3 They're thinking to themselves that we don't even have hose access.

Speaker 2 Unless it's a landscaping service, we don't know. We don't know.
The point is, yes, Shelby, you have the freedom to eat the fruit roll-up in whatever way you desire. People snack how they snack.

Speaker 1 Are you eating it in the worst possible way yes you are uh mike and tom you mentioned that you like a a gummy fruit situation tom mentioned it i did not i did not offer my opinion one way or the other to this point oh excuse me did i say michael i was about you said mike and tom you mentioned that you favor

Speaker 1 he didn't say he favored he just says he likes it he didn't say he favors it yeah those are very different things judge very different things what is you Tom, will you ask your attorney to stand down for a second?

Speaker 1 When did you pass the bar?

Speaker 2 That's all I'm asking. I just want to know when you pass passed the bar.

Speaker 1 I'm not sure. Tom, do you like fruit gunk? What's your fave form factor for fruit gunk? So Michael and I have a thing, Judge, that we call basically fruit, a mouth, a mouthfeel.
And mouthfeel.

Speaker 1 Yeah, mouthfeel. So, you know, some people like something that just will slide down the throat.

Speaker 1 Some people will like something that's like crunchy. I like something that's like, you got to work to chew it, right? And so you just brought up Welches.

Speaker 3 Here's a perfect example.

Speaker 1 If I have to choose between, I like Welches and I like nibs. I have to choose between Welches and Nibs.
I'm going to opt for the nibs because the nibs give me the best

Speaker 2 workout for your jaw.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I like it.

Speaker 1 So I like it. They offer some resistance.
Yeah, for me, personally. You don't like a snack that just surrenders.

Speaker 3 Yeah, personally, I do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 How do you feel about jerky? Well, I mean, what brand? This is the thing I find with your podcast is like, you guys are not branding at all. We've got

Speaker 1 Jesse Thorne opening up. The bailiff is like, I'm eating potato chips.
We're like, what kind of potato chips? I'm not afraid to mention brands.

Speaker 1 And I want to know from either of you, what's your top brand of jerky? I like a chewy jerky as opposed to a plasticky jerky.

Speaker 1 There was a Jack Lynx jerky brand that was out for a while that was so chewy and salty, it was the greatest food I'd ever had. And they discontinued it, I think, out of spite for me.

Speaker 1 What's your favorite brand of jerky? I don't have a favorite brand. Here's me, judge, and and I'll tell you why.
Michael tells,

Speaker 1 go to the Bucky's, go to the gas station. And what you may have found, I don't know if you, I don't know how observational you both are about this,

Speaker 1 but where there was once like a few, like Slim Jams, a few, now you go to the gas station and it's a wall.

Speaker 1 Or you're at the airport, you know, you're at the Hudson's News, you're like, and it's a wall of

Speaker 1 like, in other words, jerky has been outed and people are into it. And I sit there and I'm like, I'm going to try them all.

Speaker 2 Jerky is one of those peculiar snacks where corporate America hasn't quite

Speaker 2 cornered the market on jerky. So, yeah, you got your Jacklings and you got your whatever other brands there.
I don't even know. But then you also have small batches.

Speaker 2 Sure,

Speaker 2 sure, absolutely. Right.

Speaker 2 But then I feel like the best jerky you're going to find is the kind of artisanal small batch that you're going to roll up to some gas station somewhere in Arkansas, and they're going to have like a loosite display case of jerky, probably squirrel jerky.

Speaker 2 We don't even know. We don't care.
All we know is it's the most delicious thing we've ever eaten.

Speaker 1 Or sometimes it's just a plastic tub full of loose jerky. Yeah.
And you just reach in. Jesse Thorne, you got another letter for us here? Indeed.

Speaker 3 Here's something from Jenny in Vancouver, British Columbia. She has a a snowy.

Speaker 1 Tom, that's in Canada. Tom, that's in Canada.
Vancouver is a coniferous jewel of a city for those who haven't been, for your listeners. Coniferous jewel of a city.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Indeed.

Speaker 3 I was just about to say that, Tom. I believe cheese snacks have seasons when they taste the best.
Cheetos cheese puffs and all puff varietals are summer cheesies. They taste best in warm weather.

Speaker 3 Hawkins cheesies and crunch varietals taste best in cold weather. When it's it's winter, Hawkins cheesies are the best crunchy cheese snack.

Speaker 3 My fiancé agrees that puffs are summer, but thinks Hawkins are inedible. He prefers old Dutch crunchies in the winter.
He's wrong. Those are sour and gross.
Who's right?

Speaker 1 Well, in a way, we're all a bunch of old Dutch crunchies. So what do you think?

Speaker 2 This is such a Canadian question. I mean,

Speaker 2 I've never heard of Hawkins.

Speaker 1 What about Jesse and John? Do you know Hawkins?

Speaker 3 I've never heard of Hawkins or old Dutch Crunchies.

Speaker 1 You're talking about Hawkins Crunchies?

Speaker 1 Oh, they were.

Speaker 1 Hawkins was originally produced in Chicago until the mid-50s when the factory burned down, and then they relocated to Belleville, Ontario, Belleville, Ontario, where they are produced even now.

Speaker 1 Mike Nelson of the Riff Tracks gang. once got me into Hawkins at

Speaker 1 an after party at San Francisco Sketch Fest. I mean, I was snorting them.
They were great. It was an incredible party.
Belleville situated between the Kingston and Toronto on the

Speaker 1 401. Did you say, Michael, did you ask Judge John Hodgman if it was superior to Cheeto for him?

Speaker 2 Not superior, just how does it compare in terms of

Speaker 2 is it the Canadian equivalent of a Cheeto?

Speaker 1 I can offer that if you would like to hear.

Speaker 1 I'd love to hear what Tom has to say about this.

Speaker 1 The Hawkin

Speaker 1 is a little denser,

Speaker 1 is a little larger than your typical, you're talking Cheeto crunchy now, obviously.

Speaker 1 And they have

Speaker 1 added to the musk of the cheese. And so when you eat a Hawkin, you're getting

Speaker 1 a thicker, denser,

Speaker 1 I won't say more cheesy, but there's more to consume.

Speaker 2 Can I reflect back what I think I'm hearing? It sounds like on the Cheeto, there's a coating. With the Hawkin, it sounds like the cheese sort of goes all the way through.

Speaker 1 It's a deep penetration of cheese. And I think that I think Tom Kavanaugh really put it well

Speaker 1 when he mentioned the musk of the cheese flavor, because it is an intense and funky depth of flavor that. no Cheeto has ever rivaled in mind.
In fact, it was almost too much.

Speaker 1 And I'll tell you what, when I woke up the next morning at Sketchfest with my face covered in Hawkins cheese dust, that was a bad hangover for me. Great night, bad hangover.

Speaker 2 I thought it was an interesting query, the seasonality of the puffed corn cheese snack, because I can see how a puffed Cheeto might feel a little bit more apropos in warmer weather, a little airier, a little lighter.

Speaker 2 Whereas the denser, as you say, muskier snack, yeah, you can see how that might be more of a hibernating snack, more of an autumnal or the winter. Would I want to draw a hard and fast rule around it?

Speaker 2 No, of course not.

Speaker 1 I'm a puffy Cheetos guy myself, and I tend to be in the minority. I enjoy them better than the crunchies.

Speaker 1 And I, maybe that's just because I'm a summertime guy.

Speaker 3 I'm more of a crunch man.

Speaker 1 You're a crunchie. Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1 And by the way, old Dutch crunchies, it's interesting that Jenny should point out that her fiancé thinks they're sour and gross because they are made in northern Minnesota in the style of Canadian Hawkins.

Speaker 1 So it's again, that sour, gross, extra flavor. It's kind of its own thing.
And I do have to correct myself and I apologize, Tom.

Speaker 1 While Hawkins were invented in Chicago, it was their factory in Tweed, Ontario that burned down before they moved to wonderful Belleville, Ontario, located right there on the mouth of the Moira River and on the Bay of Quinte.

Speaker 1 Oh, by the way, I think I forgot to rule finally on Shelby and her fruit roll-up wad, which is Shelby, you're a barbarian.

Speaker 1 Not because you can't enjoy fruit roll-ups, however, you want to do it, but it's not safe to wad them up if you don't have a hose at the ready. And even then, arguably, it's not safe.

Speaker 3 Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll have more snack chat with Mike and Tom.

Speaker 5 If you like too many podcasts, you'll love Sound Teap with John Lick Roberts. It's got clips from all your favorite podcasts, such as Diary of a Tiny CEO.

Speaker 5 Leonard Sprague, tell me how you make your money. I go to the beach and I steal people's towels.
Remember Armour.

Speaker 6 Do you remember the trend of everyone whacking themselves on the head with hammers and mallets when they wanted to lose weight?

Speaker 5 And LT Jom's lobbily songs. I'm here today with Kiki D.
Hello, Kiki D.

Speaker 6 Hello, Elton.

Speaker 5 There's dozens of episodes to catch up on and brand new episodes going out right now. So if you want far, far, far too many podcasts, then look for Sound on maximum fun.

Speaker 5 Boop boop.

Speaker 6 All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show. Let's learn everything.
So let's do a quick progress check. Have we learned about quantum physics?

Speaker 4 Yes, episode 59.

Speaker 6 We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we? Yes, we have. Same episode, actually.
Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Speaker 4 Episode 64.

Speaker 6 So how close are we to learning everything? Bad news. We still haven't learned everything yet.

Speaker 1 Oh, we're ruined!

Speaker 6 No, no, no, it's good news as well. There is still a lot to learn.
Woo! I'm Dr. Ella Hubber.

Speaker 5 I'm regular Tom Lum.

Speaker 6 I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

Speaker 6 And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Speaker 4 Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Speaker 3 Judge John Hodgman, we are taking a quick break from the docket. We are, of course, headed to San Francisco Sketch Fest in January.

Speaker 3 If you're in the Bay Area or Northern California, I hope we will see you there. Tickets available at maximumfun.org slash events.

Speaker 3 Up on Bullseye right now, my public radio program, you can find our annual best stand-up of the year special. So if you love stand-up comedy, we...

Speaker 3 We listen to so many stand-up albums to put that together. It's always our most popular episode of the year, probably because I'm on it the least.

Speaker 3 the least me of any.

Speaker 1 But it's a great show.

Speaker 3 Gonna have so many, so many great albums. And as you listen to this, the holiday season is ending.
And you know what that means, John. Deep discounts on treasures in the put this on shop.

Speaker 3 I just made a code called January Justice. If you use the code January Justice between Christmas and the end of January 2026, you will get 25% off anything in the entire store, including probably you.

Speaker 3 I look, if you're a gold speculator, you might be able to buy gold for less than what it's worth in the store. I don't know, 25% off is a lot.

Speaker 1 Make a fortune hoarding gold at putthisonshop.com.

Speaker 3 Putthisonshop.com is where to go. And that code is January Justice.
January Justice, 25% off anything.

Speaker 3 Anything we sell.

Speaker 1 Hey, and I'll mention it later on in this recording, but I'm going to just say it right now as well. I have a substack, hodgman.substack.com.

Speaker 1 It's a great thing to subscribe to for free, absolutely free.

Speaker 1 If you just want a letter from me now and then telling you what I'm up to, you'll get ticket links, for example, to our San Francisco Sketchfest show, reminders that we need your disputes for that show, and you should submit them at maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho, but you won't need a reminder because you'll have a little link to click right there.

Speaker 1 And up in the secret room, I'm reading Moby Dick, the novel, out loud in a terrible main accent, chapter by chapter. And I'll tell you what, each one of those chapters is a world unto itself.

Speaker 1 You don't need to read it from the beginning. You can just join us.
It's a lot of fun. And you can go there if you want, hodgman.substack.com or give it as a gift for a friend.

Speaker 3 John, I also want to mention for the 25th anniversary of Bullseye, I went on some of the best and funniest podcasts out there.

Speaker 3 So if you're interested in more, Jesse Thorne, I'm on a members-only episode of Never Not Funny. I went on The Doughboys with our pals, The Doughboys, and talked about Costco.

Speaker 1 Yeah, a great episode.

Speaker 3 I went on Hollywood Handbook,

Speaker 3 one of the funniest shows in existence. I went on our friend Open Mike Eagles podcast to talk about the media business.

Speaker 3 I went on On the Media, one of my favorite public radio programs of all time with our friend and your Park Slope neighbor, Brooke Gladstone.

Speaker 1 Just passed her on the F-Train platform the other day.

Speaker 3 I had the best time going on all these podcasts. I hope that you will go take a listen to them.
I even got to go on the Flop House.

Speaker 3 You know, John, the last time I was on the flop house was, I don't know, five years ago or something like that.

Speaker 3 I went back on the pod on the flop house, accidentally recommended the same movie at the same end of the show.

Speaker 3 Had two shots at it, recommended the same movie both times.

Speaker 1 Anyway, let's go for the hat-trick. What's the movie?

Speaker 3 A Thousand Clowns. A thousand Clowns is the movie that I recommended.
One of the greatest movies ever of all time. My favorite movie.

Speaker 3 You can get it on Blu-ray or you can just watch it on a popular video streaming website.

Speaker 1 The most popular of all of them.

Speaker 3 F it, I'll say it. It's YouTube.
Just type it into YouTube. You'll find it there.
Okay.

Speaker 1 You'll find it there.

Speaker 3 Let's get back to the show.

Speaker 3 Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket with the hosts of the podcast, Mike and Tom Eat Snacks, Michael Ian Black, and Tom Kavanaugh.

Speaker 3 Here is a case from the fear of missing out on the Mates subreddit. When my husband opens any snack container with an outer seal, he always leaves the seal partially attached.

Speaker 3 So, for example, when he opens a tube of Pringles, he peels the foil-backed paper on top of the can 75% of the way. Then he folds it back into place under the plastic lid.

Speaker 3 This is creating an unnecessary snacking impediment. It's cruel and unusual punishment.
Judge Hodgman, please make him stop.

Speaker 1 Before I throw to you, Mike and Tom, this is Michael Ian Black and Thomas Kavanaugh, Michael and Tom eat snacks.

Speaker 1 I got to say,

Speaker 1 this one

Speaker 1 speaks to my heart. I'm not an active person.
Anyone who looks at me knows. I'm a sedentary person by nature.
Don't bear a lot of scars from... exercise or activity of any kind.

Speaker 1 But for a long time, my only scar was right here on the side of my hand when, as a youth, I reached a little too vigorously into a can of Pringles and scratched up the side of my hand on the Pringles can.

Speaker 1 That's a true story.

Speaker 1 Got $25 million out of the Pringles company as a settlement. That's why I never have to work again.

Speaker 1 But that part isn't true. But how do you feel about this leaving the foil half on

Speaker 1 the Pringles can? I have to say that the husband seems to have a shaky grasp of physics.

Speaker 1 go on. So those

Speaker 1 coverings are there to seal in, to seal in freshness. And once you open it and the air gets in there,

Speaker 1 their function is over. It's defunct.
It's not doing it anymore. And so to just kind of, it'd be kind of like if you, this is a bad example.

Speaker 1 I was going to say, like, if you toilet seat up, toilet seat down, toilet seat up, toilet seat down, toilet seat up with it with every wipe.

Speaker 1 Like you're

Speaker 1 such a bad analogy, toilet seat up. No, I think I'm loving it.
Sure, sure, toilet seat up, toilet seat down with every wipe. Yeah,

Speaker 2 wholeheartedly concur with your analysis. I would add that the husband may be laboring under the misapprehension that the

Speaker 2 that the foil is there to

Speaker 2 do anything really substantive. It's not.

Speaker 2 Lock-in flavor, sure.

Speaker 2 Did they vacuum out all the air in the Pringles cylinder before shipping it out? I don't know. I suspect not.
I think, and this is just a pet peeve I have of packaging in general.

Speaker 2 There's too much packaging. We don't need that foil thing at all.

Speaker 2 What I think happened is when the Tylenol company started getting, was poisoned back in the 70s and 80s, suddenly everything had safety foils and safety plastic rings that you had to detach.

Speaker 2 I think Pringles

Speaker 2 is probably guilty of that to some extent. I will say that the, is it a husband or fiancé, whichever he is,

Speaker 2 husband, is robbing himself

Speaker 2 of the joy of peeling off the entirety of the foil protectant,

Speaker 2 particularly on the Pringles, where they've done a great job with their adhesive technology at Pringles, because that foil thing is on there with exactly the right amount of

Speaker 2 force that there's a certain amount of torque you have to inject, you know, to get that thing off.

Speaker 1 Now I'm going into my ethereal body. Is that what it's called here? Michelle and Black Ethereal, my ethereic body.
I'm glad.

Speaker 1 Trying to travel back in time to when I got my Pringlescan scar

Speaker 1 because my memory is

Speaker 1 this is a true story. I had a scar right here for years.

Speaker 1 It seems to have disappeared now i can just barely see it but when i got that pringles can scar i believe my memory is and i'm going to ask the listeners to verify this if they if they remember if you remember but back then in the ancient times

Speaker 1 the there wasn't foil it was a pop-top like like a like a can of uh tuna fish or you know what i mean it had like a

Speaker 1 wilson tennis ball it was like uh yeah it was like if you were snacking on tennis balls which we all want to do.

Speaker 1 I mean, those things, when you open up, and I'm not a sports person, but when you open up a vacuum-packed tube of tennis balls, they seem delicious to me. That's why I think Pringles were so enticing.

Speaker 2 That's also why, that's also why Shelby won't stop crumpling up her fruit roll-ups into the shape.

Speaker 2 She probably has a tennis background.

Speaker 1 Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, absolutely.
Do you, do I, does anybody remember the metal pop top?

Speaker 1 That's once you pop, you can't stop. That's where that comes from, isn't it? I don't know.
Let me know at maximumfund.org slash JJHO if you remember that.

Speaker 1 In the meantime, I'm going to go ahead and rule on the fear of missing out's case here from the mates subreddit, by the way.

Speaker 1 That, yeah, the dude is not, he may be laboring under the delusion that the foil is doing something, but I don't think he's doing so much laboring as he's doing lazying.

Speaker 1 I think he's just too lazy to pull that thing off and throw it away. So, stop being such a belazy.
Hey, by the way, you have a very wonderful active subreddit there.

Speaker 1 And on that subreddit, Sammy Stanet has some very strong opinions about how Kit Kats should be eaten.

Speaker 1 Kit Kats, according to Sammy, must snap apart at, you have to snap apart the fingers, as they call them.

Speaker 1 If you take a bite right into the Kit Kat, like it's just a

Speaker 1 sandwich.

Speaker 1 You're a monster.

Speaker 2 What do you think? That's correct. You're a monster if that's what you do.

Speaker 2 I don't think there's any argument here.

Speaker 2 I've never known, I've known of anybody who did that. I've never done that.
Have you ever done that?

Speaker 3 I would say to that person, give me a break.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 All right. I see what you're saying.
You're saying to the person eating the Kit Kat like a sandwich, give me a break. Or you're saying to Sammy, give me a break.

Speaker 3 I'm saying to that person. No, the person that's eating a Kit Kat like a sandwich, I'm saying, give me a break.

Speaker 1 Break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar. But is it a bar? No, but you're exactly, I mean, Sammy, listen, Sammy.
Sammy,

Speaker 1 I know you're peeved. It sounds like you're a little bit more than peeved on this issue.
You have the right to be, but here's, do yourself a favor, Sammy. Take a step forward and understand that

Speaker 1 you're in the majority.

Speaker 1 And monsters can snack too. And you just got to let a monster be a monster.
If they want to wad it up, that's what they're going to do. Right.

Speaker 1 And so you don't have to let that deteriorate and take away and siphon off your joy from you eat the Kit Kat the proper the proper way. Good for you.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 I would even argue that unlike wadding up the fruit roll-up, which is dangerous, eating a Kit Kat the wrong way, I acknowledge it's the wrong way, Sammy, but it sounds like a transgressive thrill to me.

Speaker 1 And as someone who enjoys a Kit Kat from time to time,

Speaker 1 I'm going to go buy a Kit Kat bar this afternoon and eat it that way. Well, we have a very fun subreddit of our own, the maximum fun subreddit.
And we have a letter from Little Sad Rufus.

Speaker 1 Jesse, you want to read this letter from Little Sad Rufus in the UK?

Speaker 3 When I get everything popcorn at the cinema, I think a small number of jelly beans makes for a perfect topping. My daughter says the texture is too great a contrast.

Speaker 3 We're aligned on everything else when it comes to everything popcorn. Pretzels, chocolate bits, honeycomb, marshmallows, and so on.
It would be nice if we could find a common ground here. Please help.

Speaker 2 You have a common ground.

Speaker 2 You just listed all the common ground you have. Marshmallows, chocolate chips, pretzel nuggets or whatever.
Pub pretzel. I don't know.
Fruit roller. I don't know.
I don't know what. Whatever it is.

Speaker 2 The one point.

Speaker 1 Everything popcorn, by the way, is something you can order in a UK cinema. Apparently, so.
Which is popcorn topped with other... other stuff.
Look, Rufus, look, mate.

Speaker 1 It's grand, mate. You're doing great.
You're doing great. Look, have it, have at it, mate.
But listen, your mouthfeel is your mouthfeel, right? It's not your daughter's, isn't it? No, it's not, is it?

Speaker 1 No, it's not really. So, Rufus, you're her beer, you be you, mate.
Wait a minute.

Speaker 3 Where did Tom go, and how did Terrence Stamp get into our podcast?

Speaker 1 He'd be much more proper. He like, I don't like it.
Yeah, I was thinking of somebody.

Speaker 2 I was thinking it was Don Keadle from Oceans 11.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1 Trouble.

Speaker 1 So speaking of trouble, I've never mixed anything in my popcorn besides butter and salt.

Speaker 1 What do you mix into your popcorn?

Speaker 1 Milk, duds, and popcorn. Milk, duds, and popcorn.
And do the duds get melty at all?

Speaker 1 I do this sort of like the

Speaker 1 double insert.

Speaker 2 We went from deep cheese penetration to double insert of popcorn and milk duts.

Speaker 1 Is that where you cut a hole in the bottom of the popcorn?

Speaker 1 That's diner.

Speaker 1 We were thinking of the same reference. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So, Michael Ian Black, do you ever add anything to the popcorn?

Speaker 2 I don't typically, but

Speaker 2 you throw some MMs in there, you know?

Speaker 2 You get a hot popcorn, throw some M ⁇ Ms in there, sort of toss it about a little. That's a fine snack.
It's a fine snack.

Speaker 1 You enjoy that? Yes. I mean, everyone likes what they like.
You're both wrong, but that's fine.

Speaker 3 I'd just eat chicken tenders. That would be better.

Speaker 3 Popcorn's good, but.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 you could also have popcorn chicken, as you know.

Speaker 1 That's a good point. That's what I was thinking of, I suppose.

Speaker 3 That's a good point. I am not someone that will mix things into my popcorn at the movie theater.

Speaker 3 I would love to just...

Speaker 3 When I'm at the movie theater, I'm eating popcorn and I'm wishing I had a cherry coke because a cherry Coke at the movie theater is the greatest pleasure of the movie theater, but it's not available to me because the caffeine is a migraine trigger for me.

Speaker 1 So it's just a cruel taunt when I see that fountain cherry coke available for me at the movie theater.

Speaker 3 I think at home,

Speaker 3 my kids would yell at me if I put anything besides popcorn on, besides butter on the popcorn. As you know, John, I make the popcorn at home myself.
I make it without any unnecessary gadgets.

Speaker 3 I don't need extra gadgets in my kitchen to

Speaker 1 use a whirly pop?

Speaker 3 I don't need one.

Speaker 1 You're just in there with the skillet?

Speaker 3 I'm in there with a pan.

Speaker 1 Yeah, or a

Speaker 1 pot.

Speaker 3 And I'm not using oil. I'm using ghee, clarified butter.

Speaker 1 I usually use ghee.

Speaker 1 Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 It's turning into a real America's test kitchen segment here.

Speaker 3 I know. Well, I use the Americas test kitchen method by starting with three kernels.

Speaker 3 Then, when the three kernels pop, I add the rest of my popcorn, take it off the heat for 30 seconds, put it back on the heat, comes out perfect every time.

Speaker 3 I will say that if I have to.

Speaker 1 I find the best pan for making popcorn is a traditional French sausier, ideally with a copper core.

Speaker 1 Otherwise, don't make it.

Speaker 1 I,

Speaker 3 given my drothers, would like to eat parmesan cheese popcorn.

Speaker 3 I would like to eat ranch powder popcorn. These are just things that are available in my house right now.
I got ranch powder in my house at any given time.

Speaker 3 I would like, you know what? If I was hanging out with some hip peas,

Speaker 3 I'd be willing to eat nutritional yeast on my popcorn. It's pretty good.

Speaker 1 That's a David Reese classic, nutritional yeast on the popcorn. I love pushing it savory for sure.
Go on.

Speaker 3 Those are just three examples of great alternate popcorns that I would eat if my children weren't autistic. I'll tell you something that happened recently in my house, John.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 One of my children will only eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches

Speaker 3 when they're cut crosswise diagonally into triangles. One will only eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches when they're cut halfway through into rectangles.
Yep.

Speaker 3 I just learned that my youngest youngest child will yell at me

Speaker 3 if I cut his peanut butter and jelly sandwich at all.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 3 then will refuse to eat it.

Speaker 3 Will wait till mom comes home to eat anything out of spite towards me for slicing the sandwich.

Speaker 3 That's what's happening in my house.

Speaker 1 I really, really, really like that, Jesse.

Speaker 3 I just,

Speaker 1 you know, I love

Speaker 1 child preference. You know, they, this is, what are we doing? Diagonal?

Speaker 1 What are we doing?

Speaker 3 Come on over to my house because we got preference for days.

Speaker 3 We got nothing but preference. God forbid anyone should share one preference.

Speaker 1 That's great stuff. It really is great stuff.

Speaker 3 Heaven forfend.

Speaker 2 If I may.

Speaker 1 Your honor.

Speaker 2 You may, if I may interject, just briefly. You may.
For the listeners to this podcast,

Speaker 2 i i sometimes will pop popcorn in a sausier pan as recommended but then it occurred to me one day as i put the the metal lid on you know it would be so much more fun yeah put a glass lid on here then you could watch the individual kernels explode brother i did that

Speaker 3 i did that it changed the whole game for me i want to clarify that i'm using more of a pot I'm using a pot, not a pan. I said a pan, but I'm actually using a pot.
I just want to be clear.

Speaker 1 I'm using the Americas test kitchen method that involves a pot, not a pan. Okay.
I'm sure they do a great job. We're a whirly pop family.

Speaker 1 I'll tell you, I'll tell you what, everything popcorn, Little Sad Rufus on the Max Fun subreddit.

Speaker 1 In my family, this does not come up because my wife, who is a whole human being in our own right, and I, we're empty nesters now. We go to a lot of movies together.

Speaker 1 We just saw Sentimental Value, which is a terrific film.

Speaker 1 And one thing that has become made even more clear than ever is that no popcorn will be shared with my wife who's a whole human being in her arms will not share a single kernel she would rather have a whole bucket to herself and leave it two-thirds full and throw it away than let me have a piece of popcorn from her bucket otherwise share and share alike in our marriage for the most part but that is one place where the line is drawn and if you like What is it you want to put on your, oh, jelly beans.

Speaker 1 Okay, whatever, a little sad rufus. If you want to put jelly babies on your popcorn at the cinema or whatever, jelly babies, that's fine.

Speaker 1 But I don't want to have, but you don't have to share, you don't have to have common ground with your daughter. You can have a functional relationship where you hoard your own popcorn to yourself.

Speaker 1 My wife, who's a whole human being in her own right, has proved this to me. And if you want to go savory, I'm thinking now I'm going to put some steakums in my popcorn.

Speaker 1 But Michael Ian Black, you seem to want to react to what I was just saying.

Speaker 2 My wife also

Speaker 2 refuses to share food of any kind.

Speaker 2 In the past, it has been a bone of contention in our marriage.

Speaker 2 It's like she grew up during the potato famine. And

Speaker 2 it has been a problem because she has no problem taking food from me. None.

Speaker 2 But if I try to take some from her, suddenly it's an argument. I don't care for it.

Speaker 1 Now, now I'm going to have popcorn for dinner. What, John?

Speaker 1 Judge, what's the popcorn? Is this only is this is this

Speaker 1 venue specific? Is this this only happens, the non-sharing of the popcorn at a cinema? No, any

Speaker 1 couch? You can't have at home on the couch.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, maybe she'll make herself a separate bowl, but I don't know what's going on at the cinema. Okay.
She will not share a vessel of popcorn. But she is a human in her own right.

Speaker 1 She is. And, you know, people like what they like.
And,

Speaker 1 you know, I suspect that I'm an only child. She's a middle child.
I suspect that there was a lot of pilfering of snacks in her life that I never had to put up with. I mean,

Speaker 1 when I was mortally wounding my hand on a tube of Pringles, you think I was sharing those? No, I was an only child. They were all for me.
I didn't have to rush into that tube.

Speaker 3 Tom and Mike, my stepmother

Speaker 3 is from Northern Ireland, from Belfast, Northern Ireland.

Speaker 1 Jesse's really offended now.

Speaker 3 Grew up in a single-parent household with a lot of siblings.

Speaker 3 And they had meat once a week. Once a week, they would get meat and they would get a rasher of bacon, you know, Irish-style bacon.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 one time, Catherine, my stepmother's sister,

Speaker 3 tried to take my stepmother Bernie's bacon, and Bernie stabbed her through the hand with a fork.

Speaker 3 That's a true story that's about food scarcity and hand injuries.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 a nice historical allusion to the troubles,

Speaker 2 which I appreciated very much.

Speaker 1 Whereas in the untroubled home of John Hodgman, Brookline, Massachusetts, mid-80s, there was no one to stab my hand with a fork as I shoved it into a Pringles tube and mortally wound it.

Speaker 1 Never mind anyone to stop me from polishing off an entire box of triscuits, an entire jar of peanut butter of a weekday afternoon while watching

Speaker 1 a doctor who on a black and white television set, I was a sophisticate.

Speaker 1 Hey, before we go and have Jesse read the credits, we do have to pay off our incredible quiz. What kind of potato chip was Jesse eating? If you get it right, you get a free Lisa mattress.

Speaker 1 Okay, hang on a second.

Speaker 2 I have a guess. I have a guess.
And I feel pretty good about it.

Speaker 1 Yep. Do you?

Speaker 2 All right. My guess.
Yeah. My guess.
Whoa. Okay.
Lays classic.

Speaker 1 Put that in the hopper.

Speaker 3 That's like guessing. It's like being on Wheel of Fortune and guessing RST.

Speaker 2 No, no,

Speaker 1 no, it's not.

Speaker 2 Not really. No, it's not.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Because, and I'll tell you, and I'll tell you why.

Speaker 2 There's so, there's more potato chips, varieties of potato chips, brands of potato chips, and flavors of potato chips than there are letters in the alphabet.

Speaker 2 The reason I'm guessing Lay's Classic was because of the offhanded way you said, I'm eating potato chips, which made me think I'm eating the most generic form of potato chip, which is the Lays Classic.

Speaker 2 That's my logic. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Here's my thing. I felt like I detected, and now we're dealing with microphones, so I don't, you probably have a great microphone.
I felt I detected a crunchier,

Speaker 1 that the palette would be the whole thing would be crunchier than Lays, which is a very thin and extra salty potato chip. I

Speaker 1 want to.

Speaker 2 Are you going Cape Cod Kettle? Cape Cod Kettle?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I got you. No, no, no, just Cape Cod, Cape Cod Plain.
I am. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Cape Cod Plain. All right.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to, you know, I was going to make a guess, just because Jesse is a son of San Francisco and likes things, I was thinking: does It's It make a brand of potato chip?

Speaker 1 Does is there a sourdough flavored potato chip that I don't know about?

Speaker 3 Boudin, does Harrow Bakery make a potato chip?

Speaker 1 I'll tell you what, don't Google San Francisco potato chip because the urban dictionary will tell you it means something other than a potato chip. Don't look it up.

Speaker 1 I was going to say, if I'm going to play it straight, then I'm throwing Lays Plain, an estimable chip, by the way.

Speaker 2 Very, very good chip.

Speaker 1 The default chip, I believe.

Speaker 1 I'm going to throw that right into the garbage can, though, because I know I don't think Jesse is a person of taste and distinction, and I don't think he's going to go that plain.

Speaker 1 Cape Cod, Jesse doesn't even know what New England is.

Speaker 3 Ah, interesting.

Speaker 1 See, that's now you're now you're doing it. You're making educated guesses.
I like this.

Speaker 1 I think that if you were going to go for a crunchy-style potato chip and buy the, I mean, I don't even know if wants a crisp or a crunchy one necessarily.

Speaker 1 Crunchy may be too, I don't know, too crunchy, but

Speaker 1 I would imagine it's going to be some kind of good local brand or something that he grew up with.

Speaker 1 So I guess, like, what's the best West Coast potato chip? Best West Coast potato chip.

Speaker 1 This is just right off the top of my dome. I'm not typing into anything.

Speaker 2 As you look just off camera.

Speaker 3 That's going to be a sweet Maui onion Hawaiian chip would be the best local potato chip.

Speaker 1 Glad to help you with that. Are you? Oh, that's what you're.
Okay, but

Speaker 3 if you're just looking, that's not an answer. I'm not offering a tip or a hint here.

Speaker 1 I'm just saying, if you want the best local potato chip, Maui Hawaiian, is that by kettle? Kettle chip, sweet Maui, Hawaii? I believe

Speaker 3 they acquired them at some point. It used to be by Granny Goose.

Speaker 1 Well, I would love to say, speaking of grannies, grannies, I'd love to say Grandma Utz because Grandma Utz potato chips from by Utz are the only potato chips that I know of that are sold commercially that are still fried in lard.

Speaker 1 They're very delicious. But I'm going to go with a

Speaker 1 Tim's Cascade from the Pacific Northwest.

Speaker 1 Plain.

Speaker 1 And I'm not going to say Charles chips because Charles chips used to

Speaker 1 be delivered to your door like milk.

Speaker 1 Did you know that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, it comes in a big tin.

Speaker 2 Big tin of Charles chips.

Speaker 1 Charles chips. All right.
So that's my guess. Who's closest?

Speaker 3 Guys, I really appreciate all your efforts. All your guesses stunk.

Speaker 1 Excellent.

Speaker 3 John, you're correct that I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, and I grew up loving those sweet Maui onion potato chips, which my father would sometimes purchase at the Walgreens near our house, our apartment on Godius Street in Bernal Heights.

Speaker 3 But you know, I don't live in San Francisco anymore. Now I live in Lincoln Heights in Los Angeles, just a couple minutes south on the 110 from South Pasadena, California, the home of the original.

Speaker 3 Yes, that's right, Trader Joe's store.

Speaker 1 Whoa, shit.

Speaker 3 Gentlemen, I was eating Trader Joe's Ridge Cut Potato Chips,

Speaker 1 salt and pepper flavor. Oh, those

Speaker 1 salt and pepper flavor. Home run.
That's a flat-out

Speaker 1 sound. The Trader Joe's chips are great.
The salt and pepper, phenomenal. That is, I'm so happy to hear that.
That's so great.

Speaker 1 That is like, I thought it couldn't maybe reach this kind of culmination, and yet it did. That's great.
Trader Joe's salt and pepper.

Speaker 1 Wow. No one wins a Lisa mattress, sadly, but we all go home with a brand new, nationally available potato chip recommendation.
I'm having potato chips and popcorn for my dinner tonight.

Speaker 1 I don't know about you all.

Speaker 1 Jesse Thorne, why don't we say thank you to our friends Michael Ian Black and Tom Kavanaugh of the Mike and Tom Eat Snacks podcast available now, again and forever, wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 1 It's a terrific podcast.

Speaker 1 And Michael, I just want to offer you once again, every time I see you, I must offer my sincere apologies because I started reading Moby Dick in a dumb main accent into my sub stack once a week or so, and I, without realizing that I was ripping off your wonderful podcast, Obscure, where you read chapters of various old English language classic novels, and it's a delightful podcast.

Speaker 1 And which one are you reading now on your book?

Speaker 2 Currently,

Speaker 2 about three-quarters of the way through Theodore Dreiser's An American Tragedy. I started reading it aloud about two years ago.
I'm still going.

Speaker 2 And it's a good book. It's season four

Speaker 2 of Obscure. We've read.

Speaker 1 That sounds wonderful.

Speaker 2 Well, I'm going to tell you all the books we read, and you can cut them out or you don't have to, but I feel like people need to know. All right.

Speaker 2 Thomas Hardy's Jude the Obscure was the first one, followed by Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, followed by Emily Bronte's

Speaker 2 Wuthering Heights,

Speaker 2 and now Dreiser's in American Tragedy.

Speaker 1 Well, you should listen to that, and you should listen to Mike and Tom Eat Snacks, available wherever you get your podcast.

Speaker 1 And if you want to listen to to me read Moby Dick Out Loud in a terrible main accent, you know where to go, hodgan.subtech.com. I threw in a plug of my own there, Jesse Thorne.

Speaker 1 You want to take us out?

Speaker 3 Indeed, I want to mention that I have been enjoying Mike on Have I Got News for You on

Speaker 3 the CNN network.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 just last night, I was watching the hit television program Peacemaker on Home Box Office Maximum, and

Speaker 3 there was my friend Michael Ian Black. I was happy to see him.

Speaker 3 Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman, our social media specialist, Megan Rosati. The podcast edited by A.J.
McKeon, Daniel Speer, our video producer.

Speaker 3 The show is produced by Jennifer Marmer. Photos from our program on Instagram at instagram.com/slash judgejohnhodgman.
We're also on TikTok and YouTube at judgejohnhodgman pod.

Speaker 3 Follow and subscribe to see our episodes and video-only content. John, I have been active on Blue Sky lately.

Speaker 3 What I decided my life needed was more social media crap.

Speaker 1 What could go wrong?

Speaker 3 Yeah, more places for people to let me know whether my face is punchable.

Speaker 3 You can find me, Jesse Thorne on Blue Sky. Let me know.
Hit me up in the comments.

Speaker 1 Yeah, hit him up in the comments, not in his face.

Speaker 3 And I'm also on Instagram, Jesse Thorne, very famous. John is also on Instagram, John Hodgman.
John, we need cases for our program.

Speaker 1 We are reaching the end of the holiday season. As you listen to this, me, I'm barely into it, but you're getting towards the end.

Speaker 1 Many of us are packing to come home after your visits to your loved ones or your liked ones. Your disputes are going to happen.

Speaker 1 It's hard to travel this time of year, whether you're traveling by planes, trains, or automobiles. No conveyance is without its problem, even a funicular.

Speaker 1 What kind of disputes have you had over travel lately? Maybe you've had a dispute over what to eat in the car, anything too smelly to eat?

Speaker 1 Do you still like to print out directions like it's 1994? Are you philosophically opposed to ever checking a piece of luggage? Or are you an adult who's got an air tag?

Speaker 1 Just check your bags, everybody. Trains, planes, automobiles, any kind of travel dispute, let us know.
Submit your travel disputes at maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho.

Speaker 3 And indeed jesse we're looking for all kinds of disputes right absolutely especially if you live in san francisco because we're coming to sketch fest or in san francisco bay area you can dispute with me whether the best local potato chip is a sweet maui onion hawaiian chip i've heard it's a rice-arone chip no matter

Speaker 3 no one in san francisco has ever eaten i've never eaten rice a roni in my entire life Guess what I'm having for dinner?

Speaker 1 Popcorn, potato chips, and rice-aroni, I've decided.

Speaker 3 We're eager to hear about any dispute on any subject, of course. Go to maximumfun.org/slash JJHO.
I've never eaten anything out of a bread bowl either.

Speaker 3 That's another thing that I'm completely unfamiliar with as a native San Francisco.

Speaker 1 What do you think I'm putting my rice-aroni potato chips in coffee?

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 3 The bread bowl honestly sounds all right. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Speaker 4 Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artists-owned shows, supported directly by you.