Cruel and Two Casserole Punishment Live in St. Paul

It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
With me is my friend and yours, Judge John Hodgman. And this week's episode recorded live in St.
Paul, Minnesota, where we had

a monumentally good time, John.

Before we even got to the stage, Jesse Thorne lived out a lifelong dream of petting a capybara on the head. Not even one capybara, multiple capybaras.
John,

forget the capybaras. I hate to say it, but forget the capybaras.
Because while we were sound checking for this show on the stage of the Fitzgerald Theater in St.

Paul, Minnesota, I got a telephone call, which I stepped away from the microphone to answer.

We had gone to a place called Sustainable Safari to pet these capybaras.

And I thought we had so much fun petting these capybaras and, of course, meeting the sloth, Jennifer Slopez,

that I thought I'll leave my phone number. If anybody who works there wants free tickets to the show, we had such a great time.
We're glad to put them on the list. They can come to the show.

And get this phone call. I think maybe it's somebody.
It's a Minnesota,

it's a Minnesota number. I'm thinking maybe somebody is wanting to come to the show.
So I step away from the microphone while we're sound checking. I answer it.

This woman says, Hi, I'm the healthcare coordinator for Sustainable Safari.

Oh, great. We were just there.
We had such a nice time. Would you like to come to the show? And she said, sure.

And she said, it just so happens that I have a couple of baby kangaroos living in my house right now. Would you like me to bring them by?

To which I said,

Yeah, you can see these photos of the baby kangaroos and us backstage at the Fitzgerald Theater on our social media. But the magic wasn't just backstage.

The magic, as always, is on stage at the beautiful Fitzgerald Theater, a place that we love to go and perform in.

In this show, we talk about TV volume, when it's appropriate to wear shorts and when it isn't appropriate to wear shorts, whether to wash your floor mats of your car in a dishwasher, and we get deep into the etiquette of Minnesota neighborhood potlucks.

It's a great show and we had a great time. Let's go to the stage of the Fitzgerald Theater in St.
Paul, Minnesota.

People of St. Paul, Minnesota, you asked us for live justice and we stand ready to deliver it.
The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session.

Let's start our first case. Please welcome to the stage Michael and Katie.

Michael brings the case against his wife, Katie. Ever since she she was a child, Katie has watched TV in a very specific way.
She's a weird mom with a system, and Michael can't stand it.

Who's right, who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Michael and Katie, thank you for joining us.

Katie, this is a dispute about watching Todd.

What are you all watching on TV these days?

Not much.

We have a 10-month-old and a two-year-old. Oh, congratulations.
It takes a minute to get through anything. Are these human babies or baby kangaroos? These are human babies.
Oh, what a shame. I know.

I'm so sorry.

I mean, those kangaroos seemed like really calm. Yeah.

They seemed like it, but they had some stories.

It was a tough weekend. So, Katie, tell me how, the specific way you like to watch TV, the specific setting,

what is it, and why? Well, the why is a very long answer. Okay, let's do the short one first.

Is I like the volume settings to be on even numbers or multiples of five. Okay.

Surprise reaction from the crowd, I must say. I'm not alone.
This did not occur. This does not occur to me that this would be something that other people cared about.
Yeah.

What about the why?

That's like a classic applause line: like, who here loves teachers?

Fives and twos, am I right?

Yeah.

I mean, the.

Well,

let me ask it this way. Maybe this will help.
When the TV volume is not an even number or a multiple of five, how do you feel?

It just sort of like eats my brain.

It eats?

Like,

I just can't focus on the show because I'm like, I wish it was a 12. Can you even tell the difference between 12 and 13? I mean, if I don't see the number.

Okay.

Whatever. Michael.

Yeah. Evens and multiples of five.
It's a lot of, it's 60%.

You've done the math. Yeah.
Okay.

He always does the math.

I mean, it gives you a lot of options, though. It's a lot of options.
I think, you know. So, what's your issue here? Long time listener of the podcast.
All right.

I'll accept your suck up.

I cheered when you came on. It's too late.

Michael already got there. He was first to pander wins the day.
That's right.

Long time listener, you're always asking,

no

dispute is too small.

So it's been in my head for a long time, but it's not so much of a thing that I've ever done anything about it. I've probably thought of it a hundred times.
What would you have done about it? Divorce.

No, no, no.

Right in my dispute. Tear the television off the screen.
Send an email.

Usually I'm in my car. I don't think of it once I get to the email.
Because it's not that big a deal. That's not a big deal.
But, you know, coming to St.

Paul, I thought, this is a perfect Swiss justice. I agree with that.
And sometimes I want it to be nine, you know? Sure, that's pretty soft.

19?

All right, 19, I like that.

It does, I mean, you have to admit, Katie, it does eliminate all the prime numbers.

Exactly.

out of the way. Are you anti-prime?

No comments. I see.

Michael, have you ever considered just setting it to 17 and not telling your beloved? She doesn't know Katie. I've heard her.
I've done it, but it feels wrong.

To deceive your bride feels wrong. Yeah, yeah, you know.

Look, that's a high bar that many a Judge Shan Hodgman husband does not pass.

How do you so? Katie says that when she is watching at say 11 or 19 or 21 or 23 or 27, I mean, I can tell that these numbers are bothering you just as I say them. My mouth's just like

it says it, it hurts her brain in some irrational way. Has this been a whole all-your-life kind of thing?

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.
And this is, I would say like, this is like the only like lingering. I would say there were like little like...
What were some of the others?

So when I was in the shower, I would, when I would turn off the shower, it was one of those that like it was a bathtub shower combo situation. I've heard of them.

So when you turn it off, it like throws water out the bottom. Yeah.
So I would like tap my toes under the water a certain number of times. Nice.

And if I didn't, I thought my parents were going to die.

Can I tell you? Really took a turn there. Right.

Can I tell you something, Katie? Yeah.

For a long time, I believed that if I flushed the toilet with the lid open,

the devil would possess me. Right?

True story. True story.

And yeah, maybe he did. Oh, wow.

By the way, I stopped believing that about five years ago.

I mean, is that like the dementia? Also,

you want to close the lid too because you don't want aerosolized feces all over the place.

Right? You're with me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this guy gets. I'm an engineer.
Don't do it.

Michael,

when Katie says you don't deserve to listen at 17, how do you feel?

You know, I feel like

we have young kids and sometimes the sound mastering,

we're watching a movie, maybe, maybe, sometime.

I need to crank it up a little bit, but then the loud part comes on, I need to turn it back down. All right, well, this is Swift Justice, so we have to keep it moving.
I will say this. Yeah.

You make some good points. You flattered me very nicely.
Thank you. I don't think there's anything wrong listening in a prime number, necessarily.
Agreed. However, I don't think you care enough.

I think you just wanted to be on the podcast.

Fair.

Whereas Katie actually does care. So I'm going to say this at a volume of 22.
I rule in Katie's favor.

There's the sound of a gather. Thank you, Michael and Katie.
Keep it 22.

My very luckiest number. Thank you very much.
Please welcome Ava and Tanya. Ava.

Age 15 has a dispute with her mother whose age shall never be revealed.

Ava wants to wear shorts to school, but her mom says, cover up. Judge Odgman, the court is yours.
Ava and Tanya. Am I pronouncing your names correctly? Ava and Tanya.

Ava wants to wear shorts to school. Tanya, why not let Ava wear what she wants to school? Well, okay, let me tell you.
She can wear shorts as long as it is above 40 degrees. Oh.

So you're not anti-shorts, you're just anti-frostbite. Exactly.
Exactly. 40 degrees Fahrenheit.
You're living in Minnesota. You can get below zero very quickly.
Okay.

Well, I mean, Ava, why do you want to wear shorts during the wintertime?

Are you secretly a dude from New England walking to Dunkin' Donuts in December or what? No, but I don't go outside. Okay.

I'm at school. But you have to...
Do you have to get there? Well, yes. They have a pneumatic system here.

How do you get to school? My parents drop me off in the morning and I take the bus home. And what is the appeal of shorts? Just freedom of movement?

Joyous, you want to keep springtime forever in your heart? What's going on?

Yes.

Don't interrupt me. That's right.

Oh. Definitely.

Ava, I don't think you need me.

I think you've got this under control, I'm glad to say.

The school gets hot. Yeah.
School gets hot. There's a lot of people in there.
Do your friends wear shorts to school? Yes. That's right.
Even in the wintertime? Yes.

Her friends jump off the Brooklyn Bridge, too.

Well, it's into water, so I'd be fine. Don't jump off the Brooklyn Bridge.
Got it. Thank you.

Tanya, tell me about winters in Minnesota. Do they still have them? Yes, actually.
Or are they disappearing like the winters of Maine that don't exist anymore? Yeah.

Exactly.

Maybe Ava's just forward thinking. Maybe that.

I would like it noted that we did compromise on this. I let her go outside with shorts as long as it's going to be a high of 40.

My original rule was: even if it wasn't 40 when you left the house, you couldn't wear shorts. But I did compromise, so it can get down to 25, and she can freeze her tuck-as off.

What are you afraid is going to happen if it's too cold out? Well, I'm a pediatrician, so I know very well what's going to happen. She's going to

lose some appendages.

Yes.

Holy feces, Jesse's some actual expertise on stage for that.

Yeah, Jennifer, how did you let that slip through?

I'd like it noted that my daughter does have blue hair. She has a nose ring.
I'm a very permissive parent. Let her do some independence here, but there's no survival of the fittest.

But short shorts are too far. Or too short.
Too far. Too far.
Okay. Have you tried it out, Ava, the shorts and winter plan? Yeah.
How'd it go? Fine. I haven't lost any limbs yet.

I've got 10 toes.

I mean, can I just recommend, make sure to tap under the faucet? Because if you don't, what was the temperature that you tested this out?

What was it? Was it, it was like 12 degrees.

Yeah. 12 degrees.
And let it be noted that I dropped her off at school and she walked in, and then I picked her up after school and she walked out. However, had there been a fire drill

or gosh no, somebody said something, you know, some reason you had to go outside, you would be outside in 12-degree weather. Okay, I have a question I need the audience's help on.

So like, if I go to Seattle, Washington, right, and it's raining, which it always is in Seattle, Washington, and I take out an umbrella, someone punches me.

And everyone is always wearing shorts no matter what, right? That's just the culture of Seattle, Washington. No umbrellas, always shorts.

My question to you is: by round of applause, is it normal for teens in Minnesota to want to wear shorts when it's freezing outside?

Maybe I'm just a weird mom, but I don't think that's normal. Or normal isn't right.

What is your current temperature cutoff for shorts? If it's a high of 40 or above, you can wear shorts. I don't make it be 40 anymore when you leave the house.
Wait a minute.

If it's a high of 40, the high has to be 40. If the high is 40 or above, you can have shorts, no matter what temperature it is when you leave for school, aka 19 degrees.
I'll tell you what.

I was primed to rule against you, mom, because

I need the youth vote.

Yeah, we're also forgiving college loans.

But then I learned you're an actual pediatrician, so I'm a little afraid to put my expertise above yours.

Ava, I think that you should be able to express and dress yourself in the way that makes you feel happiest, but I also would like you to live.

So I'm going to, I hate to say it, I'm going to split the baby and drop your 40 down to 30.

30 or above for shorts. I'll take it.
Below 30, you're going too far. There's the sound of a gap.

Thank you, Ava and Tanya. Please welcome Sarah and Bill.
Sarah brings the case against your boyfriend, Bill. Sarah hates the way Bill washes the floor mats of his car.

Guess what? Bill says he has a system.

He's figured out the very best way to wash those mats and it's none of Sarah's business. All right, Sarah and Bill, welcome.
Thank you. Sarah, you seek justice in this case.

What is Bill's floor mat system?

So we cook a lot on weekends, and I do the cooking and cleaning, and I empty the dishwasher, fill the dishwasher, and he puts his floor mats in the dishwasher with the dishes in it.

Wow.

Okay, so

there was... Whoa, whoa.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Order. Order.
Shut your body holes.

The audience was making such an extraordinary ruckus

that I'm worried they missed one of the details.

Obviously, we all heard that he puts the floor mats in the dishwasher. This is true.
This is very true, yes.

When you put the floor mats in the dishwasher, Bill,

is the dishwasher empty? Well.

Let me see.

Justice comes early to the Judge John Osman Show.

If I may explain,

Your Honor.

I certainly can try.

Under normal circumstances, it's just the floor mats.

This most recent time that I did it, there were like three dishes still in there that weren't dirty.

More than that. More some very hostile.

There was silverware. The silverware was filled.
All the glasses on top. Excuse me, I'm testifying now.

But I remind you, you're under fake oaths. You're trying to minimize the number of dishes in the dishes.

So I was being lazy because there was like three dishes in there, and I thought, well, they're going to stay in there when I pull the floor mats out and then I'll run them through another cycle.

But if I may call an expert witness, I'd like to call to the stand one Martha Stewart, the paragon of good taste. It would be incredible if Martha Stewart came out with it.
Yeah.

Dressed as a baby kangaroo. Yeah, she just happened to text me while we were sound checking.

Unfortunately, Martha couldn't make it tonight, but she informs me on her website that among other things you can put in the dishwasher, including golf balls and gardening tools of all things,

floor mats are highly recommended by Martha. Okay, but Bill, you know Martha's not talking to you, right? No.

I don't like the way this is going.

I just want to make sure you understand that when Martha posts things on a website, it's for all of us, not just for you. It's not a lot of people.
Oh, I see. I thought you were speaking to me.
me.

I took it very personally. No, no, no.
Your beloved partner, Sarah, is. Now, do you cohabitate? No.

Weekends, I'm over here. Weekends, she's at my.
So, this is your dishwasher. You're darn right.
Okay, easy does it.

And if I may say, I'm a guy, and that's the kind of thing guys do, you know?

No, I'm not.

I would agree that single guys probably do.

I don't see a ring.

Whoa.

And you probably never will.

I just got to ask you, are these floor mats rubber or carpet? They are rubber

most recently, and they came up beautifully, I might add. I don't think.
They look pristine. They look like the day they were pristine.
I haven't watched my floor mats ever.

It never occurred to me. And I'm in Maine half the year.

And here's my concern. The floor mats that I got in Maine, they're encrusted with

painful gravel from the beaches.

If I were to throw that into my dishwasher, it would ruin it.

My floor mats are next to pristine when they go in. Then why do this?

Because remember what I was talking about flushing with the toilet up? Talking about aerosolized feces?

You're walking around in a lot of stuff, and then you're putting your feet on those floor mats, and then it's going aerosolized in your washing machine. Exactly.

Thank you, Sarah.

But on the other hand, Sarah, it's not your place. I mean, it's not your apartment.
It may be your place to say something, but it's not your actual apartment. Do you own or do you rent?

I lease a very nice apartment. You lease an apartment?

Are you living in a car?

This property,

the dishwasher is an included appliance

in your long-term rental. Yeah, it's a rental.
Yeah, you don't own it. I do not own it.
Okay. Does your lease allow you to destroy your dishwasher?

Well, I didn't read the fine print. Okay.

Here's what I have to say.

You know,

we have

a long-standing settled law. with regard to the correct way to load the dishwasher.

And the correct way to load the dishwasher is whoever is loading the dishwasher is doing it the correct way. Whatever way they think is correct, they're doing it.

Now, Bill, I was going to say it's your dishwasher, you're loading it,

it's none of Sarah's business, but it sounds like when she comes by, she's loading the dishwasher. And emptying it, yes.
Well, there's mutual voting. I'm sure you all split yours perfectly evenly.

That's not my point.

All I'm saying is that when Sarah is over, you are effective cohabitants, and it is upon you to not gross her out. Exactly.

But what you do during the weekday and your Bachelor Wednesdays,

when Sarah's not around, you throw those

car mats in there by themselves

and don't tell anyone. Just have some fun by yourself.
This is the sound of a gavel.

Thank you so much, Sarah and Sarah. Sarah and Bill.
Thank you so much.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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St. Paul, Minnesota, are you ready for mega justice?

Let's bring out our litigants. Please welcome to the stage Marin and Mike.
Tonight's case, cruel and two casserole punishment. Marin brings the case against her husband, Mike.

Their annual neighborhood potluck never has enough food. Marin wants to bring two dishes next time.
Mike says it's not their problem if people go hungry. One hot dish is enough.
Who's right?

Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Preheat oven to 400 degrees.

Dice the onion and bell pepper into one inch dice. Saute in olive oil.
Brown the turkey. In small bowl, mix two teaspoons each paprika, chili powder, onion powder, garlic powder.

Add half of mixture to turkey while browning. Reserve other half of mixture to sprinkle over the tater tots prior to baking.

Add the turkey to the sautéed onion and bell pepper. Add black olives.
Add sweet corn. Add chilies.
Add taco sauce. Add two cups of cheese.
Add sour cream.

Pour into a baking dish and sprinkle the remaining two cups of cheese on top.

Arrange tater tops on top of the mixture. Sprinkle cheese.

Sprinkle spice mixture. Bake in 400 degree oven for 45 minutes or until tots are crispy.
After removing from oven, sprinkle shredded lettuce.

Sprinkle green onions.

Sprinkle diced tomato.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Marin and Mike, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God or whatever.

Yeah.

Do you swear? Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he's never short of hot dish?

Yes. I do.
Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Marin and Mike, you may be seated.
I'll talk later in the van.

Marin and Mike, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favorites. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I obscurely referenced as I entered this courtroom.

I see, Marin, you're nodding your head. So why don't you guess first? Tater-tot hot dish? Tater-tot hot dish, a little vague.

That's less of a dish

than a category of hot dish. Wouldn't you agree, Mike? I do.
What is your guess? Taco tater-tot hot dish.

Interesting. Taco tater-tot hot dish.
Two good guesses. Neither of them exactly wrong, but neither of them indeed exactly right.

For indeed the dish, the recipe that I read was for a dish called turkey taco tot hot dish.

I feel like you're all just naming songs from Jerome Kern musicals. And what's more, neither of you named the creator of that recipe.

Mike? Tim Waltz. It is Governor Tim Waltz.

Specifically, Tim Waltz's Turkey Taco Tot Hot Dish,

which he developed in 2016 for Al Franken's annual Minnesota Congressional Delegation Hot Dish Cook Off. It was his third time winning in six years.

Besting even

his entry, the Turkey Trot Tater Tot Hot Dish,

which also was turkey but not taco themed. And beat out in 2016, Senator Amy Klobuchar's Babe the Brew Ox Steak and Ale hot dish and Al Franken's own Land of 10,000 calories hot dish.

Which of these is a former professional comedy writer?

In any case, it sounds God or whatever, damn delicious to me. I'm going to be making it.
In the meantime, we have to hear this case. Now, who seeks justice in this situation? I do.

Maren, what is the justice that you seek?

That he can't eat my dishes that I bring to a potluck if he's going to disagree with me about my strategy. Okay, tell me about this neighborhood potluck.

It says here in my notes that your neighborhood potluck at your block party, it's a real mess. The whole thing is a real mess.
I ask you to explain and don't be Minnesota nice about it, please.

Well, take down the block. National Night Out, everyone here knows.
That's when you have your block party.

And

what is that? I don't know what that is.

It is a night out nationally.

It's definitely something that everyone knows nationally, like the two of us.

Are you sure it's not regional night out?

Because I've missed the national night out 53 years in a row, it would seem.

So you have a block party, you close down your block, and I was raised in a historically strong block party culture on my old block. And now I'm in Minnesota.

Yes, about a mile from where I live now. Okay.
And now.

I went to a historically strong block party university.

Marin, you came up, though, you had a strong block party where you grew up. I did.

I mean, there was like, you know, there was the bounce house, someone called the fire truck, and the fire truck would come, so you could climb on that, and there would be games, and there'd be prizes, and everyone had,

you know, usually there was an organized system for who brings what, and there was a lot, and everyone brought all their nice chairs and the beer and wine, and it was lovely. It was right.

But compared to now. It's a disaster.
Right. Everybody's bringing their backup chairs.
Yeah. You call the fire department, they don't even come.

No, they come to the block down the so you look at the other block one block away and see what you could have. The other block is killing it.
What's the problem? All the other blocks are better.

Yeah, ours. I mean, it's obvious.
The other block, when they're calling, is just saying it's a bigger emergency.

You have to escalate the number of houses you're claiming are on fire.

Mike, who's responsible for this terrible block party? I don't know. Our block is kind of blah.

You have a block captain

who gives out all the only time we talk to her all year long

is when she comes to your house, knocks on the door, and awkwardly gives you the invitation to come to the block party a week later.

Who elects the block captain? That is a good question. We don't know.
It's been the same person the whole time. It sounds like it's a no-show job given out by a political block machine.

In her defense, she does text us when we forget to move our car if there's like snow.

And that's very nice of her. Oh, okay.
I thought she was scolding you. No.

No, she's just warning you so you don't get towed. Yes.
Oh, okay. I got you.
All right. And she's your neighbor and you love her and blah, blah, blah.
Okay. Got it.
We can go that far.

And there isn't enough food, is the thing. No, there are occasional, like, multiple people will order dominoes that's either been ordered too early or too late.
And I'm never going to eat dominoes.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. What? Yes.
What the hell is wrong with your block? Thank you.

I mean, shouldn't people be making things for the potluck? They should. They should.
Let's not even get there. Don't they have other pizzerias in Minnesota?

We have three of the best, some that have won like the James Beard Award within three blocks of our house. Right.
Trialola, very good.

We're going to name them all. I don't care.
Buzz marketed. Maybe your block will get better.

And so people people are bringing dominoes and it's cold dominoes and it's not good or whatever.

What do you normally bring to the block party?

Like old McDonald's hash browns?

There's only so many meals in one lifetime, so you have to bring it in each game.

And so I like to bring two to three dishes that I will have a full meal with like a protein, a vegetable, a dessert that I've always wanted to make. And so I'm taking care of me.
And

by taking care of others. Yes, everyone is welcome to my food, but it's also what I'm eating.

I just presumed that when you brought it to the pot, like you were sharing it. I am.

Maybe I don't know how the national night out works.

Everyone shows up to the block party and eats their own hot dish,

staring at each other. That's how you would have it, Mike.
You want to hoard all the food to yourself.

You don't want to be giving away two, three full meals to all these people that you live with and see every day.

What's the problem with the multiple dishes, Mike? Why are we here?

So, my take is that

she basically brought our dinner to the block party.

She is risk-averse.

She's like covering herself and

hot lunch.

Now, that's a hot dish.

Hi,

I'm Jesse Thorne for the Judge Shot Hodger Block.

At heart, Jesse, you're a storyteller. Yeah, it's true.

So what does the risk aversion have to do with this? I view potluck as a bit of an adventure. If everybody brings dessert, sure.
Awesome. Everybody gets dessert.
Everybody brings salad? Great.

You're going to have a good poop in the morning.

So

I've keeping it regular.

that feeds enough people for our family, not multiple dishes or bring enough food that feeds everybody. Because

if everybody brings enough food to feed everybody, then that's way too much food and you end up with food waste in the middle. You're a potluck libertarian.

You're tired of the potluck welfare state.

If people go hungry at the potluck, that's not your problem.

Right?

How would you propose if someone comes and all the old dominoes is gone and you've only brought enough for your own family and you've eaten it all up,

someone's hungry when they go home, how do they solve that problem? No, if everybody brings enough for their family

and they share, then everybody will have enough. That's not the scenario.
The right amount. Mike, you know that's not the scenario we're talking about.

So his.

Not enough food. Hold on.
Not enough food. This is on Mike.

Mike, there's not enough food at the block party. What happens happens when you go home? No one said there's not enough food.
There's plenty of food. Is it awesome? No, it is not.

Is there enough? There is. Are you saying that everyone should bring enough food for their own family and not share? No, I think you should share.

You get a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and everybody has enough. But that's not what's happening.
There isn't enough. I mean, I understand.

In theory,

what you're saying, right?

In theory, but in practice, it's it's not working out that way. You understand?

This is why libertarians all suck.

Sorry. There is enough.
I mean, it's not awesome.

I believe in freedom and self-determination.

I will say his argument is there's enough food is just I don't want to eat it because it's not good. You want to make sure you're covered.
I want to eat good food. Delicious hot

and delicious tater tots. That is correct.

You brought some sample dishes here for us to.

I brought something that I would bring. He brought something that I would never touch.
Okay.

Can we have both of them come out?

We're going to have a national night out right here at the Fitzgerald Theater.

So

there seems to be a tossed salad. It's a chicken schwarma.
New York Times recipe salad. Oh, okay.
Staring at your protein, your vegetables, a little cheese. Very coastal elitist of you.

New York Times. Thank you.

I've got a subscription, too.

We didn't get that recipe out in the provinces of Los Angeles.

Who made the salad? I didn't. Marin, okay.
I cooked the chicken.

Okay, easy does it.

Easy does it over there, cosplay Christopher Kimball.

That's a deep cut for my Cooks Illustrated people.

Mike is on his way to talk to the the dean about those pesky nerds.

Marin, you made this quite red and delicious. I did not make that.
Oh, this is also. That's Mike.
Okay, Mike, what is this? That is

pretzel jello salad?

I think I've heard everything I need to to make my decision.

Pretzel jello salad. With cool whip and cream cheese.

The definition of salad in Minnesota is quite wide. Yeah, no, I understand.

I've had some ambrosia salads in my time. Tell me about these layers, Mike.
Yeah.

I thought you were pretty. Pretty one-dimensional, but you've got layers, dude.
Let's hear it. Where are the dinosaurs? Where are the prehistoric mammals?

So the base is a

pretzel crust,

crushed pretzels with a little butter.

And I added an egg white to try and keep the pretzels crisp. There is cream cheese and cool whip with a half a squeeze of lemon.
And then raspberry jello with about 14 ounces of frozen raspberries.

And then six ounces of fresh raspberries to keep it tart. Keep it tart.

Totally, that's our brand new t-shirt, keep it tart. But I've never had this before.

Oh, you just made it.

You just made it for podcast glory? Exactly. Did you make it from a recipe or were you just going ape? Yeah.

You're one of those legalized libertarians. 2 a.m.
in the morning after a little gummy. Let's see what kind of salad I can make out of pretzels.

Everything I've got in the fridge.

I did taste the components. All the components tasted good separately, but I haven't had it together.
Now, this isn't a.

yeah that's how recipes work

jesse i'll let you serve yourself if you want to have a little and i'm going to go over to your microphone for a second so i can taste test this so our cousin goes to a lot of church potlucks and she says that this is the um this is what everyone this is what gets finished at a potluck and she brings really fancy stuff and no one eats it but everyone appreciates you're talking about the uh the the

pretzel cream salad. Yes, we both like the chicken schawarma salad, and that's what a normal human would eat for dinner.
Okay.

So, this isn't.

I'm from Minnesota. I believe you're in Minnesota.

You're really burning down. I know.

I'm from here. He's not.
He's just trying to win these folks over.

I'm Minnesotan. Yeah,

you better cultivate a better relationship with the fire department because you're burning your own house down

right now, Marin from the block.

All right.

I didn't think that this was going to be a cook-off. I thought we were going to have two dishes that you would want to bring, and then I would ask Mike, which could you possibly eliminate?

Why not both? Oh, sorry. But no, but this is more exciting.

I'm going to, I think that I will try

the chicken first

because I'm from New York

and also I have the feeling that if I eat the raspberry pretzel salad that's all I'll taste for the next year

so I have downed my portion of the chicken schwarma salad and honestly it is really tasty it's delicious it is it does not present particularly impressively it it did before it had to get shaken off stage normally it would be plated nicer sure but it is it is really tasty.

The chicken is succulent. My compliments to whoever cooked the chicken.

Some of us work a nine to five. Yeah.
There we go.

Yeah, because Mike's just spending all day trading crypto.

I'm actually a wedding photographer, so I don't work during the middle of the week.

Okay, okay, Bobby Buzz Market.

Stand out in the lobby with your business cards later. I'm sure you do a good job.

This salad is delicious, I must say. And I mean, I'm sure the recipe is great because it comes from the New York Times.

But

it's perfectly executed. And I think it'll be a wonderful thing to bring to a block party.
Thank you. I need to have a drink of water first.

I'm eating this weird Minnesota thing.

Yeah, I can't wait to get into this now. I don't want no spoilers, so Kyle.
Okay, but I'm gonna just go.

I'm taking more bites.

Wowie, Zhowie.

This thing rules. Yeah.

It just absolutely rips.

Should I be putting, should I just be looking in my kitchen, tasting things individually,

then combining them in a dish?

Is that Midwestern cuisine?

Could be.

I think I've eaten everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going back to my chambers with this casserole, and I'll be back in a moment for with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge Sean Odgman exits the courtroom.

Mike, how are you feeling about your chances right now?

How are you feeling? Wow, John came back for the salad, too.

I'm feeling spectacular. Yeah.
Whatever the ruling, I will abide by.

I feel like I presented my case. I feel like I presented the most Minnesotan of potluck dishes.

So I'm looking forward to a ruling, whatever he decides. Marin, how are you feeling about your chances? I mean, not great,

but I just, I grew up eating that kind of food. And so I have a solid, you know, 12 to 15 years before I had a voice eating.

And I totally get the people love it. It's just now that I can choose my own food, I'd like to.
Are there, are, are, so is your, are your neighbors' foods not good enough?

It's Domino's pizza, so it's not personal. That's true.
Well, it depends what size the pan is.

I want to eat the rest of this salad here, so we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this.

Hello. Hello, I'm calling on behalf of the Beef and Dairy Network podcast.
No, no, I'm sorry. No sales calls.
Goodbye.

It's a multi-award-winning podcast featuring guests such as Ted Danson, Nick Offerman, Josie Long.

I don't know what a Josie Long is, and anyway, I'm about to take my mother into town to see Phantom of the Opera at last. You are wasting my time, and even worse, my mother's time.

She only has so much time left. She's 98 years old.
She's only expected to live for another 20 or 30 years. Mother, get your shoes on.
Yes, the orthopaedic ones.

I don't want to have to carry you home again, do I? Right. Well, if you were looking for a podcast.
Mother, you're not wearing that, are you? It's very revealing, Mother.

This is a musical theatre, not a Parisian bordello. Simply go to maximum fun.org.
I'm reaching for my Samsung Galaxy 4 as we speak. Mother! Mother, not that hat!

It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're taking a quick break from the stage at the Fitzgerald Theater.

John, I want to mention something. Great.
You know, a lot of people hear me on this program not swearing

and being friendly and sweet. Yeah.

I would encourage you, if you like swears, to check out my comedy show, Jordan Jesse Goh, with my friend Jordan Morris, a legendary professional comic and television comedy writer.

We have a great time every week on Jordan Jesse Go with famous and less famous comedy voices joined for just 75 or so minutes of real pure silliness, just no content at all,

just pure nonsense. John has been on many times.
Recent guests have included, included, oh, just the other day, we had Margaret Cho on the program, for example. Yeah.

An alumna of San Francisco School of the Arts, where my wife and I went to high school. I did not know that.

Yeah, one of multiple School of the Arts alumni who've been on the program because we've also been joined by Aisha Tyler several times. Oh, wow.
That's an incredible school

and incredible talents. When we have been on the road lately, I have heard from more and more Jordan Jesse Goh, Judge John Hodgman crossover fans.

So I thought I would mention it because there are a lot of Judge John Hodgman fans who don't know about or listen to Jordan Jesse Goh yet. So go check that show out.
Give it a listen.

It is just pure silliness and nonsense. It's a

very different show from Judge John Hodgman, but infused with the same positive vibes, only a lot more swear words.

You know, Jesse, thinking about other podcasts, when I think about podcasts that I love and podcasters that I love, including you and Jordan Morris,

I think about the time we spent in the Fitzgerald Theater and all the fun times I had performing with John Moe out there.

John Moe being a Twin Cities resident and the host of not one, but two wonderful podcasts here on the Maximum Fun Network, including Depress Mode, an incredibly funny and thoughtful and insightful interview podcast about mental health and sleeping with celebrities, which is...

Exactly as it sounds. Famous people boring you to sleep with

murmuring dumb talk.

John Moe is such an incredible talent, and we're so happy and lucky to have him as a friend and a member of the network.

And I can't wait to get on stage with him at the Fitzgerald Theater one of these days again in the future. But until then, you can always find him on those two wonderful podcasts at Maximum Fun.

And shout out also to our Minnesota friends, Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett, as well as Mike Nelson of Riff Tracks.

the great Minnesota-based comedy conclave that's been riffing and making fun of movies now for low these many years.

RiffTracks.com is where you go to hear that good old-fashioned MSD 3000-style riffing on movies. They've never been funnier, and it's a great time to check them out if you haven't.
RiffTracks.com.

Let's get back to the stage at the Fitzgerald Theater in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Depends on what size the pan is.

I don't think that got enough appreciation.

Let's hear it for depends on how size the pan is.

Dale, Jesse Thorne.

This guy plucks brilliance out of the air and then manifests baby kangaroos.

Okay.

Marin and Mike,

this did not go the way that I expected.

You know,

I expected you both to be adorable, and it's true, you both are in your respective ways.

But I expected to have to like tease out of you a little bit about what's going on in the block and everything else. I didn't appreciate that you would both be ferocious.

Ferocious contenders at the National Night Out, both vis-a-vis burning down your own block and taking each other to task and to court. It's great.
You're from Minnesota, right, Mark? Yes.

Mike, where are you from originally? Washington State is home. Okay.
What's more, I didn't expect this to turn into a debate over different food ways and food cultures.

You know, I truly expected this to just be about like, Myron wants to bring more food and I want to starve my neighbors because

resources are limited and the water wars are coming. And

I didn't know what was going on because obviously you've got no case there, right?

I mean, the reason that what's going on, what's the problem with this blog party is that, at least on your block, people have forgotten how to be generous.

You know, like there is no generosity in ordering a bunch of dominoes to a block party. There is general, or to a potluck.
I mean, the point of the potluck is

everyone brings something from their own home, food, that is not tchotchkis.

Maybe that too. You know,

you're sharing time and food

graciously with your neighbors. And frankly,

it's not been long since we were unable to do that at all.

It's not been long since the idea of everyone dipping a spoon into a glop of ambrosia salad and eating from the same plate. Now, look, it's probably, you know, let's be careful out there still.

Practice good hygiene, obviously. But I mean,

this is what we had been craving.

And this social connection, this one-on-one, face-to-face social connection that is so much more healthy for a neighborhood and a nation than everybody ranting on Twitter about how crypto is going to save the world, Mike.

In any case,

but it turned into something else because you both provided these two dishes, one of which comes from the coast. And yet, you're the Minnesotan who presented this

fancy pants, Mark Bittman, whatever. I did go to NYU.
Oh, okay, there you go. You went to NYU,

and they could, and

you came back with a chip on your shoulder.

And that chip was not chipped beef.

No, okay. And yeah, you're struggling with your roots to a degree.
And at the same time, Mike, you bring forth this ambrosia salad, openly mocking the state that you've adopted.

Your contempt, at least, is naked. Do you know what I mean?

And yet both of these things are God or whatever damn delicious.

And I commend you both. You both did a good job.
And

it's fascinating the cultural clash that was happening in my mouth backstage

as I went back for seconds. And I mean, the truth is, first of all, yeah, bring as much as you can to that potluck.

Because the more that you share,

the more people, I mean, generosity is a gift to the giver as much as to the receiver. It feels good, Mike.
I mean,

I know it goes against your worldview

of utter self-sufficiency,

you hot dish Scrooge.

But I think that you had fun

making this weird salad for us and sharing it with us, right? I mean, if you just made it for yourself and ate it all before 4 o'clock in the morning, that would be maybe typical for you, but not fun.

And Marin, I mean, I feel like that's a salad that really stands up

to sitting outside for a while. I mean, it's like,

it's a hearty salad that I think anyone would be very happy to eat, and it would look,

would be great at any potluck. And so the fact of the matter is, yeah, bring two dishes.
And specifically, when's National Night out next?

It's in August. It's in August.
Yes.

First Tuesday of August. Thank you so much.
How much everyone knows this, obviously.

Well, I told you. Certainly not people abroad, but nationally, yes.

I told you, Jesse, don't let me get away with sleeping in my hyperbaric chamber between shows and never seeing anyone or talking to anyone. It's a mistake, honestly, when I think back.

I really should engage with other people and eat these foods and learn these traditions. All right, next national night out, next potluck, next block party.

I want you to serve both both of these dishes. Absolutely ruling two dishes and specifically these or comparable substitutes.
Maybe go for a third. This is the sound of a gavel because I love thirds.

Judge Sean Hodgman rules that is. Aaron and Mike, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Thank you to Reddit user Eddie Ray Design for naming the case in this episode.
Make sure to follow us on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

We're also on YouTube and TikTok at judgejohnhodgman pod. John, I have a question.

If folks went to those addresses and subscribed to us, would it help us, the makers of this podcast?

Yes.

Okay, great. So maybe they should do that.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne. This episode recorded by Matthew Barnhart.
Dan Telfer is our social media manager. A.J.
McKeon is our podcast editor.

Daniel Speer, our video editor. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Special thanks to our friends at Sustainable Safari and their baby kangaroos, Cabybarras, Sloths, and et cetera. Jennifer Slopez.
Jennifer Slopez. One of the good ones.
Great spot.

Got attacked by like an emu or something at one point. Yeah, they'll come for you.
Yeah, absolutely. Man, it was a great time.
We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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