Baby Grand Jury

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, baby grand jury.

Lauren brings the case against her husband, John.

Lauren loved playing the piano as a child and regrets quitting.

She wants to get a piano and start playing again.

But John says pianos are too big and too loud.

He thinks they should get a keyboard instead.

Then Lauren can play in total silence with headphones on.

That makes Lauren sad.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Come along with me as I drive to and fro.

All my friends are crazy, but I love them so.

We got a boxer abroad, an actor, and an old hippie.

Bum boom, boom, boom.

Lock a gravis and Louis de Palma, he's very mean.

Do doo doo doom doom.

It's quite a scene.

My name's Alex.

I drive a cab.

My name's Alex.

I drive a cab.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Lauren John, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever.

I do.

Indeed.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he plays neither piano nor keyboard, but instead third Man Junior Zither.

Yes.

I will.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

I still got that Third Man Junior Zither that Jesse Thorne sent me.

It's a small little zither for juniors

sold during the time when the Third Man theme by Anton Karras.

I remembered it at the last second.

was tearing up the charts.

The American pop music charts were dominated by a zither tune for the movie The Third Man that went a little something like this: dinga dinga dinga ding,

ding dinga ding.

I'm going to sing this whole episode.

Dinga dinga dinga dinga ding.

I don't, Lauren and John, I don't see you grooving to this.

But that wasn't the song that I wanted you to name when I entered this courtroom.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, which of you can name the song that I sang as I entered the courtroom?

And more important,

who is the performer and who wrote the lyrics?

Oh, I see, I see John was raising his hand or stretching in boredom.

That was a hand raise.

I didn't know how many parts to the question there were.

Yeah.

I do know that's the theme to taxi.

Yeah, what's the name of it?

Boy.

And I would think maybe the author,

the writer of soundtracks, I'm going to guess Post,

who wrote so many great themes to Hill Street Blues.

I'm hoping maybe he was in on taxi too.

Oh, Steve Post.

I think that's right.

He wrote the dunk.

That was also a very smooth theme song

from an era of smooth theme songs.

Yes.

Of the late 70s, early 80s.

But I'm not confident about my guess.

Look,

I think it's a terrific guess.

And I'm going to put it in the guess book.

I'm getting word from Jennifer Marma, our producer, Mike Post,

wrote the theme to Hill Street Blues.

And Jennifer, while you're at it, would you mind checking and seeing if he wrote the theme to Saint Elsewhere?

Meanwhile, we'll go to Lauren.

Do you agree that it's Mike Post or do you think it's someone else?

I do not have an answer on this one

as to who the writer of it was.

I was also aware that it was Taxi, but I'm not as familiar with theme song writers.

I'm more familiar with songs that have lyrics, like those those that are written by Alan Thick and his excellent sitcom.

You mean every sitcom theme from the 80s ever?

Exactly.

Exactly.

You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both, and there you have the facts of life.

The facts of life.

Yes.

That's exactly.

That is Alan Thick.

I think that's a great guess.

We've discussed on this show that many instrumental television theme songs have lyrics.

The reason being

that someone who worked on the show, usually the creator of the show, wanted to get half the publishing on the theme song.

So they they would write lyrics when

the song was filed with the ASCAP BMI or whatever.

And then those lyrics would not be performed on the television show, but they would retain a portion of the publishing rights.

Jesse, you're absolutely right.

And that is why there are actual lyrics to the theme songs to The Odd Couple.

Everywhere they go, they are known as the Couple.

Yep.

As well as the original series of Star Trek.

Beyond the rim of the starlight,

our love is dancing in starflight.

Holy moly.

This is an incredible double act.

And also the lyrics to

I Love Lucy also.

I'm getting word from Jennifer Marmora, I Love Lucy also has lyrics.

Do you know that one, Jesse?

I don't know that one.

Well, finally, someone stumped the thorn.

I know who wrote the taxi theme, but I don't know who wrote the lyric.

So the theme is written by Bob James, right?

The theme, that's right.

All guesses are wrong.

You are wrong to guess Mike Post.

You are wrong to guess.

What did you guess again, Lauren?

Oh, Alan Thick, which was great.

These are great guesses.

You might have guessed Dave Grusen, who wrote the theme song to Saint Elsewhere, which I didn't know until Jennifer just texted me.

But this

theme song in particular, which is probably,

I would say, of all of these, the smoothest and the jazziest, was written by Bob James.

You're absolutely correct, Jesse Thorne.

You win the case.

We can go home now.

I'm going to guess James L.

Brooks wrote the lyrics.

No, this was the trick part, because there are no official lyrics to Taxi.

The song Angela

was composed for Taxi, the TV show by Bob James, the famous

jazz pianist and keyboardist,

probably most famous for his stylings on the Yamaha Yamaha Grand Electric piano, which I believe is what he's using in this particular song.

It was composed to accompany a minor character in a later season of Taxi, but they liked it so much they made it the theme.

So the song is called Angela.

It is the title track, well, not the title track, but the first track on Bob James's sixth album called Touchdown, which has a football on the cover.

His previous

album was called Heads

and it had a picture of a nickel on the front, because that was the fifth album.

Touchdown was the sixth album, because that's the number of points you get with a touchdown, I'm told.

That's correct.

If you

accept the extra point or two-point conversion, that's right.

And then the seventh album was called Lucky Seven,

and I don't know if there was an eighth album.

The lyrics to the song were invented post hoc,

created by someone we know named Jonathan Colton, who would make up lyrics to songs that had no lyrics for fun.

I think Jonathan was inspired by his his friend, the very fine musician Jim Boja, who invented the lyrics to I Dream of Genie that went like this.

Genie, she calls her boyfriend master.

She can do magic when she crosses her arms and nods.

She's a crazy genie and he's an astronaut.

And they can get in trouble sometimes.

And sometimes his boss can get malicious.

No,

I can't remember the rest.

You have to ask Jim Boja.

Go contact Jim Boja via his website and find out the lyrics.

Then Jonathan wrote the one to taxi, and I never forgot it because it made me laugh so hard the first time I heard it, probably 25 years ago.

And I just texted him this morning to double-check that I remembered them correctly.

And I did.

Lauren, you come and seek justice before this court, correct?

In regards to a piano or a keyboard.

I do, Your Honor.

Tell me about your case.

Your Honor, this sort of came about very organically.

In December,

end of December, I received a form letter in the mail from a local college who was selling off an inventory of pianos.

I had stopped playing piano when I was nine years old, always regretted it.

Out of nowhere, this letter arrives and says, cheap pianos in great condition.

Email if you want the inventory list.

I emailed.

They had all kinds of pianos.

They had lots of upright pianos, baby grands.

I wanted this piano.

And this college is in where you live more or less, Baltimore, the area of Baltimore?

Yes, in the Baltimore area.

You ever see the season of the wire that deals with a bogus college piano sale scam?

Season six, yeah.

But this wasn't a bogus college piano sale.

They were actually selling real pianos.

They weren't just trying to trick you.

John, it's the system that's broken.

Hey, this is America.

Everyone gets to play.

The piano.

At least.

Boy, there have been a lot of cultural references in this show so far, and I'm really enjoying it.

So you used to play the piano a long time ago, correct?

Yes.

As a child, you were trained in the piano arts by a teacher?

Yes, I took piano lessons with Mrs.

Maminga for years.

Shout out to Mrs.

Maminga.

Where was this in the world?

Where'd you grow up?

So I grew up around Dallas, Texas.

Excellent.

And you quit when you were how old?

I think I was nine.

Now you're an adult now, so that's quite a while ago.

We're coming up on 40 years.

30-something years ago.

Look,

that's a forced revelation of age.

I didn't ask.

Anyone else can do the math.

I don't want to.

I appreciate it.

But you enjoyed playing piano as a child?

I did, but like all children, I, well, not all children, most children, I didn't enjoy practicing.

I like the playing.

I like the performance.

I like knowing a song, but practicing is hard.

What was your favorite song to know?

That one?

Just with the fifth.

No, no.

All the silly songs that kids play.

I will say that I did share a piece of evidence that shows some sheep music up on the piano that I played as a child.

And if you will do a close-up in that music, you will see it is a song that all eight and nine-year-old children love to play.

A song about, oh, don't reveal the song yet.

Okay.

This is a great way to keep people listening to the podcast because I am going to look at that image.

Oh, excellent.

But not yet, because I'm going to ask John some questions first.

John, you are married to Lauren.

Yes.

You cohabitate together in the Baltimore area.

Lovingly and happily, yes.

And you hate music.

You hate music because Lauren wants to get a piano from a college and you're like, no, I hate music, correct?

John, don't be, John, don't be presumptuous.

John, the litigant, do you hate music or your wife's happiness?

I think we can have both.

Hatred of both?

No,

we can love music while my wife just is happy and grins.

No, you love music and I know it because I did receive some photographic evidence.

All of these images, of course, will be available on the show page at maximumfund.org, as well as on our social media, Instagram.

Perhaps most notably, and even more notably, you might even be watching it right now on YouTube, able to see these images, Exhibit A,

which is a link to a Discogs

website featuring a band called The Put-Outs and their album, The Put-Outs Sing the Hits, released 1999.

What's your relationship with this album?

I wrote those songs and performed them with two other gentlemen gentlemen from Baltimore.

This was your band?

Yes.

I loved music then and I still do.

This is an indie rock band, would you say?

Yes.

That album's claimed to fame as it was produced by Tommy Stenson of The Replacements.

Oh, wow.

And might sort of sound kind of in that genre.

It includes the hits A Blank Like All the Rest.

Off-key and gladly.

Huge hits.

Huge hits.

And

the three

handsome young indie rockers, one of them is you, I presume.

Yes.

You remember what this album looks like, right?

Yes.

It is a takeoff on the Who's debut album, The Who Sings My Generation.

What is the tower behind you?

Is that a Baltimore thing?

It is the Brommel Seltzer Tower instead of the tower that The Who stood in front of, which is in London.

It deserves not to be named because it's not the Brommel Seltzer Tower.

It's not American.

Which one of these hunks are you?

I believe I'm wearing a red shirt.

Yeah, I see you there in the middle.

You're the only one wearing a red shirt.

And guess what, John?

Hunk.

Here's another hunky photo of John rocking out in the 90s or the 2000s.

You're playing a guitar.

Yes.

This was your role in the band.

You were playing lead guitar.

You were the lead singer.

You were the red-shirted hunk who led the band?

Yes.

Light on hunk, heavy on lead.

And pretty heavy on hunk.

Pretty heavy on hunk.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made Inn.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Lauren, you sent in, we talked about it before, Exhibit C, the piano that you learned to play on.

Yes.

And there is some sheet music on it.

But before I zoom in, if that's even possible,

I want to describe, this is a beautiful little stand-up piano.

A little baby.

It's with a little, a bit of, like, do you remember the brand of this piano?

I think it's a

K-Y,

I'm not even sure how you pronounce it, but K-A-W-A-I.

Oh, not K-Y, like the lubricated piano.

No, not K-Y, the lube.

Very different.

Like Kawaii, like Hawaii.

Yes.

Now, what is the sheet music?

I can't zoom in on it right now, so you're going to have to tell me.

Or, or turn it into a quiz.

Okay.

Oh, this is a song, again, every eight-year-old child would love to play this song.

Song about love taken for granted, sung by two power has a duet by two powerhouse performers.

Oh, I have a guess.

Please.

Is it Warren G and Nate Dogg in their hit single Regulate?

That came later.

This

few years before, a few years before.

Because that sampled Bob James's 1981 song, Sign of the Times.

That's why.

Okay, never mind.

Okay.

Yep.

Now.

So what is this song?

I guessed wrong.

It is a song performed by Neil Diamond and Barbara Streisand.

You don't bring me flowers.

You don't bring me flowers.

I got it right this time.

Thank you.

Second place.

Doesn't count.

There's no second place in obscure cultural references.

So this is the piano you learn to play on.

Is this the kind of piano, more or less, that you would like to get?

Yes.

Because it's quite diminutive.

It is.

I mean, John, your primary complaint is that a piano would be A, too big and B, too loud.

It's a pretty big size piano though.

Like it would be the the the wall of a house more or less like in we and we do have a sort of a small do you live in a tiny home?

Not in quotes, but we don't have a lot of extra space.

There is space.

Yeah, this is a small pie.

What do you mean the wall of a house how what do you live in an apartment or a home?

It's a home.

Freestanding home?

Yes.

No attachment.

So even if this were half the size, you would still think it would be too loud, though, is your concern.

I mean, I don't know why.

Why are you saying no to this thing?

Well,

like, I know so many people that have pianos that are just a dusty piece of furniture with stuff on them.

How many of them are you married to?

Well, that's a good question, but

for a living, I'm a personal trainer and I have a diverse group of clients.

And I have a lady who is,

her thing is kids theater.

And she was like, oh my God, you have no idea how many pianos we are offered, people trying to get rid of.

And they have them appraised to see if they can sell them.

And they can't sell them because

they're beat up and you have to get them tuned up all the time.

It just seems like a fool's folly when we can.

We can get a great keyboard that you could carry.

You could take it places with you with weighted weighted keys.

I am definitely not some Archie Bunker character trying to make my wife not get to do anything.

Like get back in the kitchen and don't play that piano.

Flaw in your argument there, friend.

Archie Bunker totally had a piano.

Oh, I know.

I know.

I know.

I want Lauren to be able to play music.

I just don't want it to be a big piece of wood and stuff that we're going to have to, it would be an albatross, I think, eventually.

Lauren, what inspired you to start playing the piano again, just to use them as a concept?

You know, it wouldn't have crossed my mind except that that letter came in the mail saying,

here are pianos.

And as soon as that hit, it sort of, it, it,

it touched something in my brain that said, oh, maybe this is a thing.

This came here.

I, it felt like the letter arrived just for me.

It felt like maybe that college only sent out one letter and it was just to me.

I hate to disabuse you of your magical thinking, but

I do believe that that letter was sent out elsewhere.

And I do believe that the letter might be an argument in John's favor that people are constantly trying to get rid of pianos because they are unused, loud, large, and hard to care for, wouldn't you say, John?

I would say for sure.

Plus, it did come from a school.

And getting back into cultural references, I believe you guys are probably familiar with the movie Fame.

God knows what occurred on those pianos when we didn't have it in our possession.

It could be terrible.

There could be germs on it.

These art school kids.

I don't know.

Fame, the movie Fame.

There was a lot of...

That was a rated R movie.

I know, but...

I don't remember them hugging and kissing on pianos.

I remember

dancing on taxi cabs and cafeteria tables.

That is true.

Was there a scene in fame?

What was the famous song from fame?

What a feeling.

I am music now.

I am magic now.

Irene Kara.

Not fame?

That's not fame.

I think fame.

No, I think the famous song from fame is fame.

Fame.

I'm going to live forever.

I misspoke.

I'm sorry.

I was rattling by.

I'm still thinking of Bob James.

Oh, honestly, maybe that.

I think he went to Flash Dance.

I did go to Flash Dance.

He went to Flash Dance.

Take it from me.

I went to arts high school.

I made out on a ton of pianos.

You made out on a ton of pianos in arts high school?

Oh, yeah, big time.

Okay.

You're just joking, though, John, about the pianos having germs on them, right?

I'm less prudish about that, yes.

I mean, genuinely.

Okay.

All joking aside here.

Tell me why you don't want to make your wife happy and just get a nice little piano.

I would like to get her a keyboard keyboard that she could move.

It would be great.

We get her a little cool combo amp.

She'd be pro.

I'd get her a road case for it if she wanted it.

Yeah, you're making a positive argument for a keyboard, and I'm going to ask Lauren why a keyboard is terrible in a moment.

But why is a piano terrible?

You said that it mainly becomes like a side table.

that's never used.

Are you concerned that Lauren won't play the piano if she gets one?

I do think there's pressure with it just sitting there and maybe not.

I would dream to walk into the house and hear the themed Hill Street Blues being played after a hard day's work.

That is, that's a good piano song, honestly.

Oh, my God.

That's what all the smart kids learned when I was a kid.

Oh, you're going to hear it, though, if she's got her headphones in.

But then when she's so proficient at it, and she will be, she's good at stuff.

She does get good.

Oh, you're saying you don't want to listen to the wife whom you love play piano badly.

I think, like, I play guitar and I'm self-conscious about it.

I don't, I don't play loud.

Do you play a whole guitar or just a little teeny tiny guitar?

Like a junior zither guitar?

I've got a good real guitar, but I don't plug in the electric one a lot of times.

I just kind of plink around quietly.

Well, you mean you have more than one?

I've got three guitars.

You have three guitars.

Okay.

And where do they live in your home?

In a basement downstairs.

In a basement downstairs.

And who runs this basement?

Who gets to live in this basement?

I'm there more than lauren i guess is it'd be man cave ish let me let the record show that there is exhibit d jesse thorne that i can draw your attention to exhibit d

which i believe john is you in your basement and it really is a dude's basement because it's got a bunch of dumbbells on the floor it's got i take it back i apologize you're not a dad but you're the coolest dad in the world because look at look at all of the look at all this physical media you have stacked up underneath this tv you've got dvds DVDs upon DVDs over there.

And you're holding a guitar and there's another guitar at your feet and you're straddling a big bag of effects pedals.

You're looking cool as heck.

And you have an amp and a road case behind you.

Yes.

Why do you need a road case?

Are you going on the road?

No.

From my days back a while ago, and that amp is fairly recently bought.

I always wanted a nice road case, but I never had the money to buy it.

So it was definitely an indulgence.

And I was like, you know what?

I'll probably.

Now that your wife is paying half, you can definitely afford it.

The road case isn't for touring, John.

This is just for like vacations and stuff.

Pretty much.

Your Honor, I would like to make a very important point here.

It was two weeks after the piano conversation happened and John crushed my dream.

I folded it up.

I threw it away.

Two weeks later, John brings out one of his guitars and says, I need to find a loot here.

I want to get this guitar repaired.

And then in the following month, he bought that amp, maybe two months later, and the road case.

So these are not items that were existing in our home.

These were items that were purchased after the piano letter arrived and I had this discussion around pianos.

John was not playing his guitars consistently for years

until this whole conversation happened so i believe the piano conversation you see on his face sparked john's desire to play music and and so all this kind of it intensified and that your honor is when i reached out and this is where i must object if i may object uh overruled how long

thank you your honor how long had it been i'll get to your point i'll let you make your point but i want to know this point of fact

how long had it been since you had played guitar consistently?

This is going to tie up nicely.

It had been a while.

It had been a while.

And we got to do something wonderful in December that was an inspiration to us both.

What was that?

I've got, it's, it's the Yolatanga defense.

We went to the Hanukkah shows.

Oh, sure.

And Ira is a master of the Fender guitar.

I had always played Gibson's, but I had a beat up Fender, and I watched him for several nights play his fender so wonderfully.

I was like, you know what?

I've got a Jaguar that is in disrepair and I will, and I was complete, it was, they were the best shows ever.

And it was so exciting.

Yola Tengo, for all the children out there, if you don't know, is an incredibly talented,

influential, and an amazing rock trio, indie rock trio.

The pride of Hoboken, New Jersey.

We're talking about Iraq Kaplan, Georgia Hubley, and James McNew.

incredible band and every year uh during hanukkah they play a concert eight concerts right in a row eight nights eight nights of hanukkah concerts with lots of guest musicians occasionally guest comedians who might have performed with them before talking about todd berry talking about todd yeah we saw todd berry yeah todd berry famous comedian yeah where was it at the bowery ballroom or what yep it was bowery yeah what a fun time John, I think Judge John Hodgman listeners might best know Ira Kaplan as my co-star in the documentary Swamp Dog Paints His Pool, which was just released and is really wonderful.

I saw Ira at the Swamp Dog's 80th birthday party, which they filmed for the film.

I had no idea, and I'm so excited to check it out because I'm a fan.

Also features our friend and past Max FunCon guest, Vernon Reed of Living Color.

I love Vernon Reed.

I'm a fan of all the people involved in this movie.

This sounds like a great night.

And it reignited your spark to play guitar on a regular basis.

Is that right, John?

It did.

And if you got to sue me for that,

I don't know.

And the first thing you were like, in order to play guitar again, I got to go get this road case for this amp.

Get an amp.

That is suspect.

And then get a road case for a moment.

That's a suspect, yes.

Well, look, it's the arts.

None of this is rational.

True.

I have an important question.

I'm looking at this basement room and I'm thinking about your your childless lifestyle.

Child-free.

Thank you.

The thing that I am wondering most is,

is there a place for a piano?

Yes.

Wow.

That's an excellent question.

It's not a huge home, but we live pretty simply.

We don't have tons of stuff.

I have two potential spots for this piano.

One in our entry room and another, we have like a little, it's a small bedroom that we turned into an office and it would fit beautifully in there an upright piano not a baby grand just an upright piano an upright piano

yeah do you dispute that the piano could fit in those spaces there john it could be done i just don't know why you wouldn't get one exactly like ira has with a stand it sits there sounds beautiful it has weighted keys You are so excited about these weighted keys.

It's important.

Do you want this keyboard because you want to play with it?

This is like me giving my dad a 40th birthday present, which was the text adventure game Infidel by Infocom, because I thought he wouldn't, he would enjoy it.

Or me giving my wife a bowling ball that says Homer?

That's exactly where I was going, Jesse.

Yeah.

I really, I, I, I think that is not the case.

If, if we had a nice keyboard in the house, maybe I'd plink around on it, try and learn something, but I don't, that's not what, that's not front of mind for me, no.

Lauren, have you thought through the fact that this piano is going to cost five or $700 to move into your home in addition to the cost of the piano?

And that once it is there, you will not be able to move it?

I have thought about this.

This is all part of,

you know, when you make an investment like this, the more kind of pain on the front end of this investment, I feel like the more motivated I will be to learn and to play it.

You say this is an investment.

Do you mean that you're going to become a professional pianist?

I am not going to become a professional pianist.

No.

So what's on the other side of this investment?

What's the payoff here?

So, you know, if you, if you, someone gives you a keyboard, you put it in your house or you, you buy something cheap, you know, it's there.

When you've had to put more of a financial investment into something, then you personally, I would be more likely to say, well, I put money into this.

I want to make sure that I'm getting good use out of it.

So I realize that there may be some upfront expense,

but I feel like maybe that might even motivate me more to make sure that I benefit and use this piano.

But you don't like the idea of playing.

I mean, obviously, Lauren, you like the idea of playing a real piano for the, for what Walter Benjamin would call the aura of the authentic.

Yes.

But how does the idea of playing with headphones on make you feel?

Sad.

A piano,

when it makes a sound, it's a sound that feels organic and authentic and rich and real.

Putting on a pair of headphones and hearing kind of a fake version of that is very unappealing to me.

Do you have neighbors?

We do.

Are they close enough that they would hear you and complain?

It's possible they might hear.

They could hear.

Yeah, it's possible.

I would not play

late at night or crazy early in the morning.

I would be reasonable with it.

John says you will not play at all.

Well, that would solve the neighbor issue.

Let me ask you this: what song do you want to play?

You don't send me flowers?

I mean, wow.

Could you imagine reading?

It's a heartbreaking song about a child-free couple that are

falling out of love with each other.

Terrible at horticulture.

Yeah, I think picking up some like proper classic songs, learning some of the Elliott Smith back catalog.

i

the idea of being able to just sit down and play a song is so appealing to me john your wife seems to have good musical tastes do you agree or disagree um i agree she likes the things that the bands i like influenced she likes the things that the bands i like

Wow.

I would listen to the zombies and she listens to Belle and Sebastian.

You're just saying you're old.

Yes.

Yes.

But that's, you're not going to be like wandering around the house listening to her play Belle and Sebastian being like, oh, I wish she were playing the zombies.

No.

I doubt she'll play a limp biscuit on piano or anything.

I think we're safe on the

subjects.

Lauren, when was the last time you touched a piano keyboard or a keyboard keyboard?

Does

Does a melodic account that you blow into, the little keyboard that you blow into?

Oh,

because it's delightful.

It is delightful.

And in the first couple months of COVID, John and I briefly formed a band and learned one song where he played on guitar and I played on the melodica.

What song was it?

Guilty A.M.

Pleasure.

Definitely not in a foreign land.

Are you turning into a John Worcester character from the best show?

He may grew up in North Carolina, too.

Yeah.

You may have been one this whole time, John.

Let me ask you,

you didn't bring your guitar and melodica with you to the studio, did you?

Oh, what an oversight.

Studio, have you got a melodica on hand?

Is there a house melodica?

Can we fly in a melodica, please?

She did great on it.

She really did.

Lauren, cover your ears for a second.

John,

is she a bad musician?

Is that the concern here?

Is this something you don't want to say?

It really is.

Lauren is good at stuff.

When she puts her mind to things, she's good.

And I'm honest.

Yes.

Is there anyone else in your house who would enjoy listening to the piano aside from you, Lauren?

I mean, it's just the two of you, right?

We have two dogs who would love to hear piano being played.

I have two dogs.

Dogs, did you say?

Dogs?

I don't see any pictures of dogs in this evidence.

It's a very good point.

And it's.

All right, I'm just going to give a very quick preliminary ruling.

No matter which way I rule, as soon as you get home today,

you need to take some pictures of the dogs and send them in.

Yes.

And then within 48 to, let's say, 72 hours, you need to record a melodica guitar song so that we can put it on YouTube and

we'll all make a fortune.

The dogs would love to hear you play piano, though.

Yes.

Are you sure about this?

Dogs like reggae.

That's what I've read, that dogs like music.

But reggae.

Specifically, reggae does make dogs happy.

Jesse Thorne, I have a a question.

You have two dogs, right?

I do.

I have two dogs, Junior and Mabel.

How much money would a veterinarian need to pay you to play reggae for your dogs?

Saying that it's good for them.

Honestly, my wife loves reggae.

So, and I like reggae.

So I think it is like the place where our tastes most intersect.

If my wife is alone and I like wander into the kitchen and she's listening to music,

it's almost always Ani DeFranco, unless sometimes the Cranberries.

Both of these are wonderful musical artists for whom I have the most immense respect,

to whose music I might not choose to listen to otherwise.

Right.

But if I put on Toots and the Maytals,

then we can both get down.

John, you heard that Lauren doesn't want to wear headphones because it's not the same as hearing the actual music of the actual thing.

You made the same argument.

So why aren't you more sympathetic to Lauren's desire here?

I think we haven't investigated enough with keyboard.

I would like, I would like to be able to A-B it.

Like I would like her to try out keyboards and be like, see, same thing.

Before big, sweaty guys pull or carting things into the house.

There may also be sweaty women who bring

piano in.

That'd be good.

Your argument is that, in part, that you will have no faith that Lauren will key up with with the piano and it'll just be a horrible eyesore and a testament to her failure.

That said, if she

defies your expectations and sticks with it, like let's say I order her to get a keyboard and she sticks with it, would you be open to a piano then?

Yes.

Yes.

Lauren, what's wrong with that compromise aside from it being incredibly patronizing and condescending?

Aside from it being incredibly patronizing and condescending, it's the patronizing and condescending nature.

I said, aside from that.

Oh, aside from that, no objection in that case, none.

Lauren, on this program, over the years, we have heard from many husbands with aspirations to hobbies.

They often are not people who follow through on those aspirations fully.

Sure.

Are you the kind of person who picks up hobbies

and then discards them and then realizes that it costs $1,000 to get a piano taken out of your house?

I am not someone who cycles through hobbies.

I get pretty fixated on stuff and I stick with it.

Is there a world in which you pursue this hobby outside of your home, like in

a library or colleges, music practice rooms where there is a piano until you get to know whether you are actually going to make this a lifestyle rather than a casual interest.

If I absolutely had to do that, I think I would rather have a keyboard at home because I won't be able to practice enough.

And also the dogs will miss out on hearing the music, which really seems unfair to the dogs.

Do you dogs love other songs besides reggae?

Why do you think that they're going to love hearing you play the piano so much?

The dogs just like, they just like to be where I am or where John is.

And when John is playing his guitar, especially if

he is plugged in and he's got that basement door closed, the dogs are like, they are trying to get in there.

They are at the door.

Oh, now I see what's going on.

They're into it.

You're fighting for the attention of these dogs.

They're good dogs, you're honest.

They're the only babies you have, and they love

your rock and roll husband, and you want to woo them over with some lounge jazz.

You know, we have two dogs.

One dog is named Osita.

The other dog is named Little Brian Eno.

And I think Little Brian Eno, especially, would be drawn to the piano.

John, do the dogs like the zombies or are they just like Belle and Sebastian?

They said Belle and Sebastian are hacks and

they like source material.

The dogs only listen to Sister Rosetta Thorpe.

Pretty much.

Yes, it has to be old school or my dogs will not engage.

I did notice when Osita heard me playing Belle and Sebastian, she was barking and the bark sounded very much like she was trying to say derivative, derivative.

John, do you have a different standard of tidiness in your home?

I am the cleaner.

I think that's fair to say.

He's the cleaner.

I'm in charge of laundry.

That means you do more of the cleaning or you are just naturally a cleaner person.

Or when you two murder someone, it's your job to get rid of the brains, pretty much.

Yes, I am the cleaner one, but she isn't a total slob.

I am the clean one, yes.

So is this a tidiness issue that happens so much in people who live together?

That one sense of tidiness is different than the other?

Are you sensing a intrusion of one big piece of clutter that you don't want?

Is that what's going on?

I don't think consciously.

I don't think that's it.

Then you got to tell me what's going on unconsciously here, because here's what I'm taking away from this, John.

You're a musician.

You love music.

You love your wife.

You also love your dogs.

Your dogs love music.

You live in a freestanding home in Baltimore.

You're not sharing a wall with anyone.

You're not sharing a floor or a ceiling with anyone.

There are two identifiable spaces where a piano, a small upright piano, could go.

You yourself play music in the home, not amplified, but not on headphones.

Your wife is very clear that she wants specifically a real live piano that bonks strings,

and she doesn't want to wear headphones.

The understandable and reasonable compromise that you're proposing to avoid ongoing tuning costs and the possibility that she might let it go and then it'll be an expense to get rid of it.

She has rejected your compromise.

It's not for her.

You're both dinks.

You both bonk.

You have dual incomes.

It is not impossible that you could absorb the cost of the piano, the cost of moving it in, the cost of tuning it, and then within a year or two, if it didn't work out,

the cost of getting rid of it, even if you just write it off as a loss, just have someone come and take it away.

So why?

Why are you so opposed?

John, why can't you?

John, why can't your wife go on this bonk adventure?

The way you put it, I mean, it all makes sense.

I think I'm,

you know, I stated my case.

I want versatility.

I want us to be able to travel light with it.

But, you know, I defer to whatever you think.

Do you believe that

in the case of being forced from your home, a keyboard is like diamonds, portable wealth?

Do you think you're going to have to

get out of town quick and maybe you have to use the keyboard to bribe a warlord of a city-state after society has collapsed to let you in to the walled compound?

Are you imagining sewing this keyboard into the lining of a dress?

I mean, honestly,

I wouldn't be too surprised if you were thinking of making a run for it.

I don't know if

I don't know.

I'm at a loss for words on this.

I didn't know I was such a keyboard enthusiast.

Do you want a keyboard?

I guess I already asked you that.

You just want to play it yourself.

But don't you want to play music with your wife again?

Now, if I could just interject, I don't want the piano so that I can play with John.

I am not.

trying to infringe on his music time.

We can, this is, he has his musical hobby and I have mine.

They do not have to merge.

But John, your argum, your response to me was, I just don't know.

I just don't want it.

You know, what am I missing?

Well, from playing music in the past, you, you try and zero in on the perfect thing.

You want, you want the perfect rig.

You want your amp and your guitar to just be great.

And I think we're making a suggestion.

Check out little Brian Eno over here.

Yeah.

Oh, he's great.

You would like little Brian Eno a lot.

He looks just like him in Before and After.

I mean, I just don't know.

Brian Eno is a very famous musician and producer and maybe a perfectionist.

I don't know if that's where you're coming from.

But all right, go on again about how art is the search for perfection and all things.

Well, as far as like the perfect rig, the thing that's going to serve me the best, and I have three really good guitars and a cool amp, and I don't want her stuck with the big piece of wood in the corner, but we could get her just a great keyboard.

So that's my whole story.

All right.

Well, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my grand conservatory

and I'm going to press the autoplay on my casiotone keyboard to make it make the little bossa nova rhythm that I like.

And as I'm jamming out to that, I will consider my verdict and be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Lauren, how are you feeling about your chances right now?

I am feeling very good.

I am feeling like I made my case clear.

I feel that John was not able to plead a clear case at all.

John, how are you feeling about your chances?

Well, I feel like I started out okay.

And

I might have cracked under the pressure a little bit.

But what I'm counting on is that

Judge Hodgman can see the truth and figure out a way that this can work in our household.

It's amazing that you're the one that cracked under the weight when she's the one carrying a 500-pound piano.

And

that shows you what a strong, strong woman she is.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all of this when we come back in just a moment.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn Everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubba.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper.

And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the case.

You know what?

I have noticed.

Yes.

Not every Judge John Hodgman listener already subscribes to your Substack.

Thank you for mentioning that.

Yes, we have a lot of fun together over there at hodgman.substack.com.

That's where you can subscribe to my newsletter, which is called Secret Society.

There is a completely complimentary portion of the newsletter in which I share with you some stuff that's going on in my life.

Talk about some, maybe if I'm doing a live stream of something, maybe if I'm doing more joy of zoning, that's where you would find out about it first.

Obviously, talking about where we might be going in the future.

And then

there is a secret room that you can get into if you want to and you don't have to, but up in that secret room, I am currently going chapter by chapter through Moby Dick and reading it aloud into a microphone in a terrible main accent and sharing some private opinions that I might have about TV shows and movies that I've been watching.

And it's a lot of fun, whether you just come for free or you want to upgrade a little bit to the secret room.

We have a lot of fun over there, and I would just invite you to go check it out if you want to.

It's called Secret Society.

It's at hodgman.substack.com.

One of the things that I've been promoting over there, and here I will remind you, is Gene Gray's book, In My Remaining Years.

It's an incredibly wise, funny, and fascinating memoir by one of the most incredibly wise, funny, and fascinating people I know, Gene Gray.

You know, Gene too, as being an occasional guest bailiff on the show.

And the last thing I'd like to mention is that the last week or so, I did a couple of episodes of The Puzzlers, which is a very fun new podcast by my old pal, AJ Jacobs.

The Puzzlers is sort of like

the puzzle segment that you hear on the radio, on public radio on Sundays, but

funnier.

That's all I'm going to say about that.

What's going on with you, Jesse Thorne?

Well, John, you may know that I'm a native of the great city of San Francisco, the city by the bay.

I'm also a fan of the San Francisco Giants.

And like any decent San Franciscan or San Francisco Giants fan, I am also a huge fan of the Giants television announcers, Mike Kruko and Dwayne Kuyper.

They are often voted the best broadcasters in the baseball business.

They have been the Giants play-by-play and color man on television for now something like three, let's see, almost 35-ish years at this point.

Yeah, something like that.

And they are total geniuses.

They are total heroes of mine, exemplars of non-toxic jock masculinity and male friendship.

And they're funny and they're just the best.

And I am so excited that the folks at San Francisco Sketch Fest invited me to moderate an event, an evening with Kruk and Kuipe

in San Francisco.

It is like a dream come true for me to get to do this.

It surpassed only by the time that Kruk and Kuipe talked about my dad hat and a humbaby t-shirt when I was at Dodger Stadium at a Giants Dodgers game once on the Giants broadcast.

That's amazing.

Yeah, I'm so excited about it.

Like, I'm truly over the moon about this.

It's May 15th at our old friend, the Sidney Goldstein Theater in San Francisco.

Wonderful theater, wonderful town.

Yeah, you can get tickets at sfsketchfest.com, and I hope that you will.

If you have a Giants fan in your life or somebody in the Bay Area who wants to just come to something really cool, we're going to have video the giants are putting together video clips and stuff it's going to be it's going to be a ton of fun um i'm i'm just so this is not something that uh kruko and kuiper do ever um make make these kinds of public appearances in this way and i'm so excited to get to do it we're going to kind of focus on them being hilarious which they really are and

their long history together.

You know, they were best buddies on the Giants in the mid-1980s.

That's how they became broadcasters together.

That's, you know, 40 years ago now that they became close pals.

And yeah,

I'm so excited about this thing.

It's May 15th.

sfsketchfest.com is the place to go.

sfsketchfest.com.

It's a sketchfest joint, but it's happening May 15th.

I wish I could be there, Jesse.

I can't this time, but in the future, maybe because I have an adult child who's moving to San Francisco, did you know that?

No, I had no idea.

I'll tell you more about it privately later.

But San Francisco, open your golden gate.

Welcome all the Judge John Hodgman fans to this incredible event with Jesse Thorne.

May 15th, sfsketchfist.com.

And that's all.

Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

John, when it came down to it, your argument seems to be

that you don't want the expense, but mostly you don't want the disruption of this big, heavy new hobby coming into your house.

And I don't know why you don't want that disruption, right?

You haven't been able to articulate it.

Something deep inside of you recoils from it.

And it's not a tidiness issue.

Although you did point out that lots of times pianos simply become side tables to accumulate.

keys and inhalers and other junk.

But it does not feel like it's primarily a tidiness issue.

It does not feel like primarily it's,

but I just don't know.

I just don't know what it is other than disruption.

And I think that one of the things that

you benefit from, well, let me put it this way.

You benefit from a lot of things by being dinks.

Being dinks win.

I mean, being dinks is a wonderful thing.

It's like being an only child.

You don't have to share anything.

Your time is your own.

In this case, it's not your own.

It's actually shared with the person that you've chosen to make a life with.

But there are very, very few disruptions that you have not invited in yourself.

Whereas children,

just like

siblings, children are human beings that you don't control.

and become very quickly in charge of your household in a way that surprises parents, ultimately.

They are instruments of chaos.

And perhaps you've gotten too used to being able to curate your life exactly the way you want to, that

you don't remember what it's like to have chaos or an instrument of chaos, like a piano in your house.

I mean, look at the two of you going up there to New York City for three nights of an eight-night Yolatengo concert.

That would never happen if you had kids.

You get someone to look after your dogs, you just go away and you just do it.

But maybe the disruption you worry and feel is

that this is like

it's never having a piano in your home is never going to be as disruptive as a kid.

But I can, I'm wondering if maybe that that's what the resistance to disruption is.

Maybe, I don't know, I don't know, and I don't care because Lauren's going to get a piano, obviously.

Here's why

You're grown-ups.

A moment came to Lauren of inspiration, a magical letter from a college

that inspired her to reconnect with a childhood hobby that she let go of and wants to take up again.

Specifically, she has a memory of a very specific stand-up mid-century modern piano from the Kawhi Company.

It's very small.

I mean, as these things go, it's got a fairly small footprint, and there's a place in your house where it can go.

I agree with you.

A keyboard would be more versatile.

A keyboard would allow you to not only make bonking piano sounds, but also

and other kinds of cool sounds.

Space sounds, lasers, pew, pew.

I would have wanted a synthesizer when I was

your age, I guess, which is about two years younger than me.

Headphones are more practical.

But we don't play music to be practical.

We don't get a road case for our amp when we're not going on tour.

And whatever dreams you have of Lauren packing up her keyboard and going on tour with you, that's not her dream.

That was my feeling

going into this.

And as I listened to the arguments, I couldn't see, nor frankly, could you mount, sir, a compelling argument as to why I should tell a grown-up who can afford it not to get a piano because they want one.

Is it possible that it will just become a side table for junk?

Of course, especially if you put it in that Hall foyer or whatever.

Don't put it there.

Then it's just going to be a mail stand.

But if you've got an office that is primarily hers,

put it in there.

I challenge you, Lauren, to learn to play piano again and do a good job to not let this court down.

But not just let this court down, but also let down a friend of this court who filed a friend of the court brief at my request.

And I did not, I simply told this person what the terms of your argument were.

And I said, what do you think?

This person wrote, I will try to keep this brief.

Despite being the sheepish co-owner of a piano currently buried under so much bric-a-brac that it is unplayable, and consequently I am the player of a keyboard,

I am categorically still pro-piano.

Is it too big?

Is it too loud?

Not for me to say, not knowing where John and Lauren live, but you didn't write to me for equivocation.

So the answer is

piano.

I hope this helps.

Signed, Ira Kaplan of the Yolatengo organization.

Fantastic.

I'm not going to rule against Yolatengo today, and I'm not going to rule against Lauren.

Instead, I'm ruling in favor of a small, I think you should try to get this exact same piano you had when you were a kid.

Close the loop, find it online, or find and try out other small pianos.

that are in good enough condition for you to take into your home and learn to play.

I find in favor of Lauren.

I find in favor of the irrationality of art and music.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

John, how do you feel?

I lost, but I feel like we all won.

Because

we get to enjoy the gift of your music, your family's music.

It's going to be something.

We can't let you guys down.

Lauren, how do you feel?

First of all, I am so thankful to have the backing, not just of Judge John Hodgman, but also of Iraq Kaplan.

What, I mean, what more could I ask for in terms of vindication?

He's a nice guy, huge Mets fan, by the way.

Everyone's got something wrong.

Yeah.

We're Orioles fans here.

I mean, I think it's fair to say that being a Mets fan is in some way a sign of a sort of broken emotional life.

It's hard to attribute causality which direction the causality goes, but I've never known a Mets fan who wasn't at least a little broken on the inside.

Well, Lauren, John, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you for having us.

Before you guys go, let me also thank you personally.

It's me, Judge John Hodgman.

And in case you or any of the listeners want to know, Yolatengo is on tour right now.

You can go and to their website, yolatango.com schedule.

And if you're a couple of dinks from Baltimore, then you can just fly away at any time you want and go see them in Baton Rouge on the 25th of April, in Houston on the 26th.

You can even go see them in May at Meow Wolf in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

We've got to get over to Meow Wolf, Jesse Thorne, you and me.

If you've never been to that art space, it's incredible.

Go check them out at yolatango.com.

And I also order you guys retroactively now to go see one of these shows and send me a report.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

In just a second, we will have Swift Justice.

First, our thanks to Lex Free on Reddit for naming this week's episode.

You can join us on the Maximum Fund subreddit.

That's at r slash maximum fund, where we chat about each week's episode and also

ask for suggestions for titles.

Evidence and photos from the show are, of course, on the show page at maximumfund.org.

Also on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

We're on TikTok and YouTube at judgejohnhodgman pod.

Why not head over there and smash those like and subscribe buttons and share a little video.

It all makes a big difference to growing our podcast.

Yeah,

if you want to tickle the ivories, why don't you go tickle the like and subscribe buttons over there at YouTube?

That helps.

And while you're tickling keys, why don't you go over to Apple Podcast and leave a review for us?

That's what Lizzie Schultz did over there on Apple Podcast, leaving not only some kind words, but also a number of stars.

That number being five, Lizzie says, I have listened to Judge Sean Hodgman longer than any other podcast.

If you're looking for something light and funny and often heartwarming, give it a listen.

My husband and I love to discuss each episode and debate whether we agree with the ruling or not.

Guess what, husband?

I'm right.

Thank you to everyone involved in Judge Sean Hodgman for creating such a delightful show week after week, year after year.

Thank you so much, Lizzie, for writing those words.

And if you're listening to us as an Apple podcast, why don't you go and leave a review and a rating?

You can also rate us in the same way over at Pocketcasts.

And as mentioned, you can add a comment on YouTube if you're watching an episode there or comment on our socials or send our socials around.

All of these ratings and comments and shares really do help new listeners find the show.

Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

This episode engineered by Andrew Epig and Molly Mountain at Clean Cuts in Baltimore, Maryland.

Our social media manager is Dan Telford.

The podcast is edited by A.J.

McKeon.

Our video editor is Daniel Spear, and our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

All right, John, you ready for Swift Justice?

Yes, I am.

Coinage Jeff over there on Reddit says, My wife says our anniversary is May 29th, but I say it's always the Saturday before Memorial Day.

Who's right?

Wait a minute.

Yeah,

It's not like it's Easter.

It's not like it changes every year.

There's not a liturgical calendar.

There's an actual year or date, I should say.

My wife and I always celebrate our anniversary, the fifth day of Lent.

Your anniversary is May 29th.

But if you want to celebrate it on a Saturday night, what could be better than the Saturday before Memorial Day?

Then at least

you won't be having to pay an arm and a leg for a hotel room.

Let's say you're a dink who wants to bonk and you want to go out for your anniversary.

It's a little bit cheaper the Saturday before, but your anniversary will always be May 29th and forever.

By the way, speaking of Memorial Day, it is the unofficial start of summer.

I guess it's actually the start of summer if you go to like a private college.

If you're employed by the New York Department of Education, however, summer doesn't start until the end of June.

And boy, oh boy, summer ends in California for school kids, right?

Like August 1st or something, right, Jesse?

Yeah, it's real early in August.

but memorial day is the symbolic start of summer get out your white patent leather shoes and your seersucker because summer is starting in summer we are all tom wolf when and probably you might have some summertime disputes are you ready for summer vacation in hawaii but now you have to teach summer school what is that the is that the plot of the mark harmon movie summer school yeah it is wow cool do you have any summer camp rivalries what about i'd love to hear some rivalries between the Robin Hood camp and Nichols Day Camp in Brooksville, Maine.

John, I was just thinking about that Mr.

Show sketch about the summer camp rivalries where

Bob Odenkirk goes, a rap, rap, rap, a rappity rap, rap.

Yeah.

Do you have any disputes over rappity rap raps or whatever?

Do you want to go to the beach, but your partner wants to go to the lake?

Send us your summertime, fun time cases at maximumfun.org slash JJ Ho.

I personally can't wait for it to warm up, and I can't wait to hear your summertime disputes.

And when I say I want to hear your summertime disputes, Jesse, that means we only want to hear specifically summertime disputes, correct?

Well, John, I have a summertime dispute that I want to air.

Every summer, I get, speaking of Alan Thick, sweaty and hot, cue the 1989 Crystal Light World Aerobics Championships and Alan Thick.

Don't you ever

Now that we've all heard and watched that, we do want to hear all of your disputes, not just summertime disputes, right, Jesse?

Indeed.

Maximumfund.org/slash JJHO is the place to submit your disputes no matter what their topic, unless you have a dispute with Alan Thick's kick-butt themes for the Crystal Light World Aerobics Championships, because that's not even the only good one.

Anyway, maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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