Bed, Bath, and Begone

It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne with me, Judge John Hodgman.

This week's episode was recorded live in Seattle, Washington.

Yes, we were back at our wonderful partner, the Neptune Theater, right there by the university.

And not only did we have a great time, we also managed to descend those very steep stairs and make it to the stage alive.

This is the insight.

If people outside of people in Seattle have probably been to the Neptune Theater, everyone else only knows it as the place where podcasters that they listen to complain about how steep the stairs are.

Well, we make a living by sitting down, going up and down stairs is now become a novelty to us.

But on the stage and in the podcast, we discuss issues such as should poop talk be banned from social conversation?

Which catch-up is the best?

We'll tell you, and then we'll talk to a first-year college student and her dad about what to do with her abandoned childhood bedroom.

It's a real tea jerker and a

knee slapper.

Yeah, this is hot topics.

Let's go to the stage at the Neptune Theater in Seattle, Washington.

Hold on to that handrail on your way down.

Yeah.

People of Seattle, Washington, you asked us for live justice, and we're here to deliver it.

The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session.

Please welcome to the stage Kat and Locke.

Kat brings the case against her spouse, Locke.

Locke says Kat talks about poop too much at parties.

Kat says her poop facts are more interesting than you might think.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Kat and Locke, you may be seated.

Welcome to the court of Judge John Hodgman.

Thank you for being here.

Kat,

you talk about poop at parties.

I do.

We all know from that famous children's book, everybody poops.

But why talk about it at parties?

Well, I sort of can't help it.

I work for the King County Wastewater Treatment Division, and a very,

very

thank you, thank you all for your contributions.

So.

Jesse, I can see we're no longer needed here.

The litigants have come in with prepared material.

We're going to look bad.

Yeah.

All right, go on, Kat.

So that is a very common question in parties.

What do you do?

And

yeah, well, you can say,

I work in wastewater treatment, and then you can stop.

But where is the...

Well, here's the thing.

Here's the thing.

We're at a party now.

We're having fun now.

We're eating cocktail wieners.

Actually, no.

I don't want to eat that now.

No.

But we are drunk.

We're having stiff drinks.

And I say, where do you work?

You say, I work at the King County Wastewater Treatment.

What do you do?

What is your specific role there?

My specific role is less exciting, but I'm a research coordinator.

So I help people research poop.

You're not working hands-on with the poop.

I used to.

You're trying.

I think I know what's...

I haven't even spoken to Locke.

Nice to meet meet you.

Likewise, Your Honor.

You're the husband of the poop professional.

I absolutely am.

I haven't even heard your side of the case, but I think I know what's happening here.

Which is that you are afraid your job is boring, so you're pooping it up in order to get attention at cocktail parties.

Well, are these cocktail parties, Locke?

Answer me this question.

You're at these parties, right?

Oh, yeah.

As poop professional plus one?

That's your role?

I'm so sorry.

Where do you work?

You're in town?

Yeah, I work at the University of Washington Department of Chemistry.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, I work over there at the Skagit Pud.

Don't start.

She has stories about Skagit Pud?

I think I do, actually.

Is there a big rivalry between King County Wastewater and Skagit Pud?

Oh, you know it.

Huh.

See,

this is very interesting.

This is a party.

This is a real party, honestly.

These parties, though, are

general attendance parties, right?

Not wastewater shop talk parties.

Not like the...

What's the holiday office party like

at the poop tank?

Crappy.

Oh.

I find in favor of cat.

Uh-oh, thank you.

Thank you.

Yes.

Fair.

Preliminary finding in favor of cat.

We are all pretty poop forward at our parties, you know.

At your wastewater.

Yeah.

But in your something you're going to want to to have your doctor look at.

Let me ask you.

So here we are at our general attendance party.

You've told me that you work at the poop factory or whatever.

Yes.

What is the, and you're researching the poop.

You're not handling the poop, I'm glad to hear.

Yeah.

What's the most interesting poop fact you can share at a party?

So one of my favorite things about what we do with your poop.

So once you poop and you flush your toilet, it all goes through the wastewater treatment process.

And it goes directly to you.

Directly to me, and then I treasure it.

If I sent a message with it, would you really?

Absolutely, I would.

But so, it goes through the treatment process, and then some of it goes off into the woods and gets put in this giant machine that I affectionately call the poop flinger, and it gets flung at high velocity

into the woods.

I always regret talking over litigants, but never more in this case, because

I really stepped on the poop flinger.

When you talked about the poop going into the woods, I'm like, this sounds like a grim fairy tale.

To be fair.

Like,

do the two turds go hand in hand into the woods because they've been exiled by their poop parents?

Does Judge John Hodgman talk over litigants?

I don't know.

Do Seattes have their poop flung into the woods?

To be fair, to be fair, it's not really poop at that point.

It's mostly the dead bodies of microorganisms, which is less exciting.

That sounds less exciting, but more appetizing.

Yes, yes, it's really quite nice.

Why are you flinging poop corpses into the woods?

Because it has more nutrients than you could ever want, and it really helps trees grow.

So we help Douglas fir trees grow with our poop.

This sounds like a noble profession.

Indeed.

Yes.

No, Douglas fir.

Douglas fir, yes.

This sounds like a noble profession.

This sounds like a fun job.

This sounds like you're a hoot at parties.

What could be your complaint?

Lot.

So if the party happens to involve any sort of food or eating,

I think that's really where the problem kind of starts for me.

When you get the immediate sort of like I know to start tuning in when you get the thank you for your contributions.

And I know to immediately disengage from whatever conversation that I happen to be having at the time and run to where my partner is as soon as I hear the words like, I don't know, gravity belt thickener or something like that.

So it's not necessarily the.

Excuse me for a second.

Yes.

Would you marry me?

I am already taken.

I'm so excited.

Well, so am I, but I mean,

maybe that's why you're running over.

Are you concerned that your wife is more interesting than you are?

Oh, no, I know she is more interesting than you.

Yeah, I think that's pretty clear.

I disagree.

My job is just cooler.

What's the most interesting thing you fling into the woods in your job?

You said we were trying to keep this family friendly?

Do your best.

No comment.

No comment.

Well, you would be like a mysterious figure at a party, but you would be a lot less fun.

Fair.

You're concerned that people are grossed out by your lovely wife and that she doesn't understand that she's grossing out these people?

I think that there is a certain point at which somebody's like, oh, I'm a programmer.

I compiled this thing, blah, blah, blah.

And then they hand it off and Kat says, oh, I'm in wastewater treatment.

And then 10 or 15 minutes later,

people are going.

Are they, though?

Are they?

Because they've talked about it for 10 or 15 minutes.

Look, we're running out of time.

This is Swift Justice.

I got to figure out things.

But I could talk about this all night long.

And honestly, it sounds like she's got a tight 10 and she's ready for Carson.

I think if anyone doesn't want to talk about poop, it's incumbent upon them to say, I won't want to talk about it anymore.

You don't need to rescue the people who are fascinated by your wife, all the people who want to propose to her, even though she's married and I'm married too.

Kat's doing a great job.

Keep talking, poop.

Everybody poops.

We all love to think about it.

Thank you, Kat and Locke.

Swift Justice continues.

Please welcome to the stage Zach and Teresa.

Zach and Teresa, please.

Teresa and her boyfriend Zach recently moved in together.

Zach has proclaimed that only one brand of ketchup is allowed in their new home.

Teresa says it shouldn't matter.

All ketchup is the same and also all ketchup is worse than mustard.

Judge Hodgman?

Zach, let's get this out of the way.

There's only one brand of ketchup that you like.

I presume it is hunts.

I think we all know which one it is.

Whoa, coming in very arrogant.

People might have different ketchup preferences, but what is the brand of ketchup that you favor?

Those people are wrong.

Okay, okay.

Order in this court.

Just answer the question.

Sorry.

Heinz ketchup.

Heinz ketchup.

Heinz ketchup.

Default ketchup.

And most.

And all right.

Shut your pie holes, Sir Kensington.

Somebody's here from Baltimore.

It just occurred to me that we should have had someone dressed up as Sir Kensington.

Yeah.

Whole audience of Sir Kensingtons dropping their monocles right now.

Fun story story about Sir Kensington ketchup.

It's terrible.

So is their mayonnaise.

Also, the couple that founded that company used to come to my show, and I'd say, sponsor my podcast, and they said, we will, and then they never did.

So,

there you go.

No, it's all good.

Everyone likes what they like.

And that's actually high-quality condiments.

But Heinz is default.

Now, are you here buzz marketing Heinz as a member of the Heinz Corporation or family?

No, I don't work for them.

You have a little John Kerry to you, you understand.

Thank you.

And why are you so into Heinz ketchup?

Is there something specific about your growing up?

I am from Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh.

That is Heinz ketchup country.

Yes, it is.

It is.

Yeah.

And

Teresa, when did you realize how serious Zach is about his ketchup?

I mean, we got to go to Pittsburgh for the holidays, and I had never been.

It was amazing, beautiful, beautiful.

Beautiful.

It's a wonderful city.

Lovely city.

And we were out to lunch.

Very ketchup forward, and it sounds like a broader.

We literally met the Oscar Meyer Wiener Mobile when we were in

Pittsburgh.

But you wouldn't put ketchup on it, would you?

No, no.

And we were out to lunch.

It was just he and I, and there was Heinz ketchup everywhere.

And I was just like, yeah, people are really into Heinz, but it's just like any other ketchup.

And it was like a record scratch moment for a restaurant.

Like everyone stopped talking, and I was like, oh, no.

You were like, oh, I'm in Pittsburgh.

And And you're like, let me recover.

Yeah, people are really into Mr.

Rogers, but he's just like any other television host.

I mean, he might as well be Captain Kangaroo.

No disrespect to Captain Kangaroo.

But it was then that my lovely partner, Zach, we've been together a year now.

We get away from you.

Are you married or

just dating?

Just dating him, yeah.

So, okay, so this was relatively recently, within the past year, you learned.

We're very new.

We

hang on so much, our values are very aligned.

It was wonderful.

We love puns.

We laugh at each other's jokes all the time.

It's great.

But this was something wholly new.

And I wanted to explore this because I don't taste a difference of any ketchups.

They all taste the same.

And I think you don't really like ketchup is what I am.

I'm not the biggest fan.

But you're more of a mustard girl.

I'm a mustard gal.

What kind of mustard do you like?

Oh, stone mustard's really great.

I mean, any mustard's pretty great.

Yeah.

Yeah, there we go.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Honestly, if we wanted to make money, the whole show would be about condiments.

Like, I could spend an hour talking about Worcestershire sauce.

One time, like, 10 years ago, Dave Shumka from Stop Podcasting Yourself mentioned mustard.

He still gets like four mustards a week in the mail.

I encourage anyone within the sound of my voice to send to MaximumFun HQ all of your off-brand ketchups and mustards.

I really want to try them all, but save your off-brand mayonnaise.

I've got one true mayonnaise, and that's Hellman's.

All right.

So

what do you care then?

I just want you can't taste the difference because you're unsophisticated.

Apparently.

You burned out your taste beds with grey coupon.

Pardon me.

This could be true, Judge.

I'm just concerned about...

You're an elite.

You're a gray coupon swilling elite.

And

Zach is a man from a working-class ketchup town called Pittsburgh.

With rivers with names that are hard to pronounce.

Monongahela River.

Another river and a third.

Three rivers.

So,

you don't taste the difference, but he does.

What's the problem?

I want him to have everything that brings him joy in this world, truly.

I love this man very much.

I want to make sure this brand loyalty is not taking him down a crazy path.

In our relationship, as he has mentioned, if I cook with something other than his brand of ketchup, he wouldn't eat it and it would upset him.

And so I just want to make sure our relationship is not going to die on the hill of Heinz.

Zach.

Zach, is this about the flavor or is this about Pittsburgh Pride?

Like, is this because other ketchups taste bad to you, or is it like if you came up to me and said an It's a Kadoozie is the same as an It's It?

i think part of it is hometown pride i uh there's a good friend of mine who lives in the seattle area and we posed this question to him and he what did he say in the text message chain

he told me that i was i was wrong that you were yeah he basically said rude things to you and yeah yeah yeah it's partly that but also so your friend said rude things to your beloved and you're like yes

She's strong.

She's off to a great start.

She can handle it.

I think there's a flavor asking for you.

Are you cohabitating?

Yes.

We are cohabitating, yes.

So you're choosing ketchup for the home.

Oh, you're saying.

I'm just kidding.

You're saying that if she pushes this ketchup, you might have to live in a separate apartment?

Is that what you're saying?

No, no, no, no, no.

No, no.

Why is it so important for you to have a different kind of ketchup in the house?

You're just trying to make him jealous, keep your relationship spicy?

That could be part of it.

I think the true reason is I've always been someone who buys a lot of off-brand foods and condiments and different things like that.

Out of curiosity.

Out of curiosity or for economical reasons.

Mostly for economic reasons.

Right, right, right.

Okay.

So I think that's a good idea.

So you want to buy some cheap fast ketchup.

And what are you going to make with it?

I wasn't planning on making anything, but this became such an issue that we had to bring it to the courts.

Now, you've said it's part hometown pride, but also that there's a distinctive flavor profile that you prefer, as I said.

I believe there is.

Do you think that you would be able to identify Heinz ketchup?

Heinz brand ketchup if you were perhaps blindfolded with a makeshift Judge John Hodgman blindfold made out of a Judge John Hodgman t-shirt for sale in the lobby?

I'd like to think I could.

I'd like to think I could.

Jennifer Marmor, would you please come out?

Round of applause for our producer, Jennifer Marmor.

Would you please take that high-quality Judge John Hodgman t-shirt and give it to you?

Why is John?

Yes.

If we put this on him, are there still going to be more available for sale in the lobby?

No, this is the last one, and it's going to be covered in ketchup.

Wait a minute, I'm receiving something in my earpiece.

I'm wrong.

There are plenty of them.

Oh, thank goodness.

In fact, there are so many that you have to buy them all because we don't want to carry them around anymore.

All right.

I would just

tie it on him

as tightly as you can.

Close your eyes.

I don't think that's going to work that way.

No.

Here's what we'll do.

Because honestly, you won't be able to tell otherwise.

We'll just do that.

Man.

Jennifer, I might say that.

That looks awesome.

This is styled very nicely.

Now, Jennifer, let's gently remove this.

Really hopeful.

We have here four different ketchups, and they're labeled A, B, C, and D.

And

honestly, it doesn't matter that you're blindfolded at all.

I just wanted to do that because.

And I, your Judge John Hodgman, am going to feed you

spoonfuls of ketchup,

which has probably been an erotic dream of yours for some time.

Here, I can, look, here's what you need.

Just put it back like that.

Yeah, that's good enough.

My eyes are closed.

All right, keep them closed.

This is my hand.

Do I have permission to feed you?

Yes.

All right.

I will try not to bring shame to my ancestors.

Open wide.

First ketchup choo-choo coming in.

Don't laugh and choke and die on stage.

Okay, it's just ketchup.

It's right in front of you.

Okay.

All right.

That's ketchup number A.

Very sweet.

It's very sweet.

Okay.

As a palate cleanser, because we should have had some sparkling water up here.

But as a palate cleanser, may I offer you some crushed up ketchup-flavored potato chips from Vancouver, Canada that just traveled down with us this morning.

Okay, here, that's coming in now.

Sure.

There you go.

Wow.

Does that scrub your palate?

You ready to go to ketchup B?

Is that popular in Canada?

Yeah, very popular.

Oh, man.

But I mean, so's curling.

No, it's not bad.

All right.

Here is ketchup number B.

I'm bringing it it in, and I'm going to tell you when it's right near your mouth.

All right, it's there now.

Ready?

Go.

Okay, ketchup number letter B.

Ketchup B.

Formula B.

Now, would you like some more crushed-up

tomato, I mean, ketchup-flavored potato chips?

No, thank you, Judge.

Judge.

Teresa, would you like some

crushed up?

Thank you, though.

What you can do is, you know, you can coat some chicken in that and fry it up.

Perfect.

Take that home

as a souvenir.

Thank you so much.

That much, Judge.

That merch is not available.

Thank you.

That's Canada only.

Would you like a drink of water or something?

I actually do have an unopened water here that I'm putting in your hand if you'd like to take a little sip.

This unopened bottle of water.

It's definitely not poisoned.

No.

It's definitely not urine from the wastewater plant.

Mm.

All right.

Chunky.

All right.

Don't make a mess.

Yeah, don't fling it into the forest.

All right.

And finally, here comes ketchup B.

C.

Wait a minute.

All right.

Okay, I'm going to let you know.

Hang on, it's dripping.

It might taste lightly of stage towel now.

All right, it's in front of you.

Ketchup C.

I honestly don't know which is which.

And you can take a sip of water.

We honestly didn't even write down which is which.

So scientific.

All right, Zach.

Yes.

Here's the deal.

You may now remove your blindfold.

Is there one more?

No, the D was the

ketchup flavored potato chips, but I decided to use them in a different way.

So I heard A described as sweet.

You were surprised how sweet it was.

What was your reaction to B?

B

might

have been the same as A.

Okay, and then

C, what did you think of C?

C tasted a little bit different.

Okay.

And now, may I ask the audience, did I trick him?

Did I feed him the same ketchup twice in a row?

No.

It was A, B, and C.

And they aren't.

Well, except in the sense that all ketchups are the same.

Wow.

Oh, no.

Look, I'm over here humiliating this guy for his ketchup preference, but even I must strongly disagree with you.

And all ketchups are not the same.

And this, I agree with you, Zach.

So the deal is, if you identify the Heinz ketchup correctly, then that is the only ketchup you shall ever have in your home, in your shared home, in your shared life together.

There shall never be mention of any other ketchup.

And Teresa must acknowledge that as far as you are concerned, it is the finest ketchup on earth.

Now, if you can't identify it, then you still deserve to like what you like, and you should have Heinz ketchup in the house.

But Teresa can, you know, have a little bit of an adulterous affair with some hunts or some red gold or some of the other trash brands that are out there.

Now,

have you prepared an answer?

I believe so.

Yes.

Jennifer Marmor, you have the key code, right?

Will you hand that to me?

I have not heard this before.

Another round of applause for Jennifer Marmor, please.

So, we know that the D cup was full of crushed-up potato chips, which is not ketchup.

A, B, or C?

Which is the Heinz?

Which is the Heinz?

You would take a wild guess and you'd have a 33.3333 repeating chance.

Yeah.

It might have been C.

Is Is that your final answer?

I think for the sake of time, yes.

I'll tell you this.

A,

you're glad you didn't pick A.

It wasn't A.

It was definitely not A.

Right, because A, speaking of hometown ketchups, that's Portland brand ketchup.

Yeah.

We tasted it yesterday.

It's not very good.

I'm not going to taste it now because your saliva is all over those ketchups.

It's not good.

I'm sorry, Portland Beeble, it's not good.

And did you say B or C?

I believe C.

Really?

I think so.

Are you absolutely sure?

Now I'm thinking maybe B.

B is the Heinz.

That is correct.

The ketchup that you thought was Heinz.

Irony of irony.

Oh, no.

You like fancy mustards, right?

I do.

You ever enjoy just some trashy yellow mustard on a breast?

100%, right?

Absolutely.

Maybe what's the most famous trashy yellow mustard?

French.

French's ketchup.

Yeah.

Is what you chose.

They make ketchup.

They make ketchup.

And it's your favorite, you nasty freak.

Oh, God.

Why did you put that packet of ketchup where I smashed my gavel down?

You dare me to do it?

Do you dare me to smash your beloved Heinz?

French's wins.

You are now a multiple ketchup household.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Get out of here.

That's Swift Justice.

Thank you.

Thank you, Teresa and Zach.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Seattle, Washington.

Are you ready for

mega justice?

Let's bring out our litigants.

Please welcome to the stage Clay and Lindy.

Tonight's case, bed, bath, and be gone.

Clay brings the case against his daughter, Lindy.

Lindy is in her first year of college.

Now that she's out of the house, Clay wants to redecorate her room.

He thinks it's time to reclaim the space.

Lindy thinks it's too soon.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Dad, did you notice anything out of the ordinary about my old room?

Well, son, we kept it exactly as you left it, and then we filled it with cement.

Geez, I've only been gone since yesterday.

Well, turns out some guys will work all night if you throw enough money around.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Clay and Lindy, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever?

Yes.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that the departure of his children for college led him to triple the size of his chambers?

Indeed.

Yes, I do.

Judge Hodgman.

Clay and Lindy, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced?

as I entered the courtroom.

Clay, you're very old.

Why don't you go first?

I mean, comparatively.

Yeah.

In the sense that you're hurtling towards death.

You're in the prime of your life.

Well, that's clearly

Dame Judy Dench and Daniel Bay-Lewis in a room with a view.

I remember the concrete filling the room scene quite well.

Okay.

The view is of the concrete?

Jesse, we got a live one.

We got a straight-up weird dad over here.

All right, that's a good guess.

Lindy, what is your guess, if I may ask?

I'm going to say it's a niche outtake from Star Wars Skeleton Crew

that you were on.

Starring Snavius Snee.

I like that guess a lot.

You are your dad's daughter and a whole human being in your own right.

Thank you very much for those

wonderful, adorable guesses, which all of them being wrong,

that was in fact a quote from the early 90s sitcom created by Chris Elliott called Get a Life.

Oh my God.

In which Chris Elliott co-starred with his own father,

comedy legend Bob Elliott.

And Chris Elliott played a version of himself.

in his 30s, who was still living at home with his dad and mom and running his paper route that he'd had since he was a kid and living in his old room.

And in this episode, he announces it's his birthday.

He's turning 31, so he's finally going to move out of the house.

He rents the neighbor's garage for a single night, gets freaked out, tries to move home, goes up to his old room, opens it, and it's just a blank wall of cement

because his dad filled it with cement.

That's something he would do, too.

So you're both wrong, but it's a great series, and apparently it's all on YouTube now.

So go steal steal it.

Go watch the episode where an alien moves into their house and all it does is barf on them.

It's a very strange show.

In any case, we do have to hear this case.

So,

Lindy, first of all, congratulations on beginning college.

Thank you.

How's it going?

It is so good so far.

I love it.

Go Beaves, Oregon State University, College of Health.

Wait a minute.

Can I ask a serious question?

Your father is sitting next to you, and he knows the value of pandering to the audience.

He's wearing a University of Washington quarter zip.

Yeah.

But he's what we call a quarter zip hotty.

Clay, did you just wear that as a fuck you to your own kid?

I have said fuck you to my own kid, but not in this case.

Not today.

So, no, I'm incredibly proud of her, and she's having a great year at Oregon State University.

Really loving it.

And what are you studying?

Natural resources.

Natural resources.

Minoring in forest poop flinging?

Hopefully, I mean, like, if I can add that, now I know it's interesting.

And you live on campus.

I do.

In a dormitory type situation.

And you left your childhood room behind, and now, Clay, you're eyeing it greedily.

Why?

You must be very proud of your daughter.

I am, absolutely.

So, why do you want to erase her existence from your home?

Yeah, why?

Well, it's not so much that I want to erase her existence, it's that at some point, you know, our family,

where we live, it has to evolve, you know, and so I really am seeking a judgment of what is the appropriate length of time to wait before it's okay to actually

remove her presence from our house.

And in your

September, October, November, December,

five months, you're saying five months is enough?

No, no, no.

I actually, I think in my original request, my request was that once she returns for her sophomore year of college, which would be

in September of

this calendar year, that we would be, we, my stars

turning

into a foosball air hockey room.

You would begin to evolve your family to its ultimate form.

And I wouldn't be there for it, which I think would be the worst part.

Become shining clay.

Tell me about your home.

It's here in Seattle.

We live north of Seattle in Muccaltio.

Okay.

And do you...

Sure.

Wow.

Hey.

Hey, give it up for Muccaltito, I guess.

Wonderful.

A smattering of applause.

A lot of people who catch the ferry to Whidbey Island, apparently.

And

are there any

other siblings?

Yes.

I have a younger sister who's two years younger than me, so than I.

So she's still in high school and living there and enjoying my space as well and my clothes, too.

She moved into your room.

Were you sharing the room or no?

No, no, she just likes to go in there and take my things.

So

she has her own room.

She has her own respectful room, yes.

Right.

But she needs a farting room.

Obviously.

Wait, have you met Piper?

On a fairly well-known podcast, you call your own daughter a farter.

You weren't sitting on the couch next to me last night when

something magical happened between my daughter and my face.

But I'm not here to adjudicate that.

No, sir, I was in Vancouver and I'm thinking about going back.

So

it's not as though you're tight for space, not like you've been sharing the room or anything like that.

You have your own bedroom, I presume.

Yeah,

so yeah, my spouse and I have our own bedroom.

What is your thought?

What is your plan for Lindy's old room?

You know, a number of things have gone through my mind.

I think

certainly it would make a lovely sitting room, you know,

as

court mandated.

I'm married to a librarian and so.

That's wonderful.

Congratulations.

So

as a result, there's a lot of reading to be done.

And so I think it would be a great location.

She didn't allow you to sit down anywhere.

So you needed a room.

A reading room.

A library.

A reading room.

But actually,

I fear I might be pandering to the bailiff, but our next-door neighbors have two dogs that are derpy in the best possible way.

And I almost would love to create some sort of dog observatory there.

This guy's rear-windowing dogs.

I love everything about this.

Are you talking about, I think I understand this,

a dog observatory, which is a common thing.

Everybody in Muckle Teo has one.

You're talking about designating a room in your home

for the observation of dogs, I presume, through peepholes that you have cut into a spooky painting and hung on the wall, and then you will then

steal your neighbor's dogs and put them in there and watch them like it's a weird Dean Kuntz novel.

This is what you have in mind, a dog observatory?

I had not gone that deep into it, but that sounds like a great idea.

Don't steal dogs.

The dog observatory is just one of a number of ideas, but really to repurpose that room to a potential guest room

or other

just other uses for that space besides what would be known as Lindy's room.

Does your wife, who's a whole human being in her own right, agree with your plan to exorcise the room of the spirit of Lindy as soon as this September?

She's not gone on the record.

However,

when asked,

she did, I believe, say, what's the rush?

What's the rush?

Well, I mean, I ask you the same thing.

What's the rush?

There is no rush, but

if you speak with parents about this question,

you get a whole range of answers from 24 hours

to

the somewhat creepy never.

And so

I think what I'm really seeking is

what is that length of time that is the right length of time to wait before you start to say, no, okay, this is now not just Lindy's room, but it's Lindy's old room, and now it is this other thing.

Now it is this neutral dog observatory/slash sitting day bed beanbag chair room or whatever it is you're gonna come up with.

A rumpus room.

A rumpus room.

Lindy, the state of your room currently, I hope and trust is a shrine to your memory the exact way you left it

the day you left for college.

Correct?

And tell me a little bit about the decor in your room.

It's very, I have lots of posters up on the wall that match my like aesthetic.

Yeah.

Um,

I have things from all throughout my life.

Um, and

what are the posts?

What are the posters of?

Like, I have black light posters of bongs.

I wish.

Um,

I have like a Seattle Kraken poster in there.

No kraken.

Um, I have a portrait that someone drew of me at a punk show.

Oh, wow.

Here at the Neptune or just in Seattle?

Oh, just just in Seattle.

Yeah, it was a little underground thing.

But yeah, and in one corner, I have this.

You know, it's been a long time since I've gone to any punk shows, but my favorite part of all the punk shows was the caricature station.

Yeah.

Lindy, is it possible that was a bot mitzvah?

It was a mishmash of things, but yes, there was a little caricature charcoal station.

It's very beautiful, but.

Jello Biafra did read a Torah portion.

Did you have any life-size or semi-life-size cutouts of actors?

I do, actually.

It's crazy you asked that.

I have, in a corner with all my vinyls, I have a life-size cutout of Oscar Isaac dressed up as Poe from Star Wars.

And is that life-size cutout here in the courtroom?

It just might be.

Jennifer Marmor, will you produce the life-size cutout?

Larger than life-size cutout.

Lindy, do you recognize life-size cutout of Oscar Isaac?

Yes.

Is he in this courtroom now?

He is.

Can you point to him?

Let the record show that Lindy has correctly identified life-size cutout of Oscar Isaac.

I don't know whether it's quite life-size.

I know, it's a little short.

He is a little short, you know, a little, a little wee.

And so, anyway,

this is what you want to destroy.

Yeah.

But

I do not want to destroy it.

What are you going to do with Poe Dameron?

What are you going to do with this portrait of your daughter from the punk rock show if not throw it in a fire?

I could only presume, knowing how Lindy feels about Poe Dameron, that she would take him with her to

her sophomore year.

This isn't the kind of item that you would ever have in a college dorm room.

No, sir, no.

It might distract from her studies.

Yeah.

Such a thing would never

be seated next to a lava lamp

in a cinder block room in

Oregon State University.

Why didn't you take Poe Dameron with you?

I feel like there might be another crime here that's been committed.

Your betrayal of your love for cardboard Poe.

I actually, I talked to my roommate about it

beforehand, and I was like, oh, it'd be so crazy if I brought like this life-size cutout to the dorm with us.

And she was like, yeah, that kind of would be crazy.

And I was like, okay, so.

So you've never had to share a room before.

No, I haven't.

Yeah.

And so, in a sense, it might be, you know, you know that you have this personal space back at home.

Yes.

And right now, you're out in the wilderness for the first time, like a poop flung into the woods.

One could say, yeah.

How long have you been at college at this point?

Since late September.

So that's a long time to hold your farts.

Yeah.

Tell me about it.

If only you had a farting room at home.

If only.

Clay, if I were to rule in your favor and

kick Lindy out, not only in body, but also in spirit, out of of this room,

would Lindy still be welcome to visit you?

Yeah, of course.

And honestly, it will always be her home, right, where we are.

It's the...

It's just not her room.

There we have it.

Where would she sleep?

On a mat on the floor of the dog observatory?

That'd be awesome.

I love those dogs.

I think we found a solution, actually.

I think I might have convinced her with this.

No,

we do have,

yeah,

we would be able to keep a bed in that room, you know, for her to sleep in.

But again, it's that evolution and the change coming out of the,

as our family transforms going into the future,

it's not necessarily her space.

Would it be fair to say that it would also be sending a valuable message to your younger daughter, the farting one?

That message being, don't get too comfortable.

It would feel a bit like a shot across the bow, yeah.

And her room is a little bit bigger, so actually, in the long term, I think we're really talking about that as a guest room,

so that we could have a guest room and a dog observatory.

Is Lindy your oldest child?

She is, yeah.

The first to go to college?

She is, yeah.

And

on a scale of one to ten, ten being most and one being not at all, how much daily pain are you going through?

Daily pain?

Emotional pain that your daughter

is grown up and has left the house.

I hate to buzz market Tom Papa because I don't know if you have beef or not.

No beef with Tom Papa.

That's great.

Lovely guy.

Great comedian.

But he has a great line where he said that

they never tell you after your kid leaves for college that the hardest thing is to pretend you're sad about it.

Let the record reflect that

upon Clay having said that, Lindy turned away from the microphone and mouthed to the audience, where will I fart?

You know,

a lot of,

I mean, I know that it seems a long way off because Lindy just started college, but a lot of kids who graduate from college can't afford to live out in the world on their own.

A lot of them do move home for a period of time.

You're saying that Lindy would be barred from your home and not allowed?

No, not barred.

And honestly, this is probably the biggest act of faith I have in my child that I am so confident that she will graduate from college

and

she has fledged into the world so well just in these first few months that when she graduates,

I can't imagine a future where she will find herself wanting to return to her room that she's had since she was two years old.

I think you should train your imaginations.

Do you know how much natural resource majors get like in a job?

It's not that much.

I mean, I share with you complete confidence that Lindy is going to thrive in the world, in her chosen profession, and major and everything else.

But I mean,

it's hard out there for Lindy right now

for all college graduates.

She's studying to be a poop master.

You still haven't answered what you're going to do with Podamarin and all the other stuff.

You're right.

I haven't.

In an attic or something like that.

Yeah, I think it would probably end up folded up and put with some of the other things that we might store on her behalf.

In your home or in a...

in like a storage locker somewhere?

A creepy storage locker.

We have enough space to store it.

You have enough space to store the cardboard cut.

Yeah.

Yeah.

She has a closet

that

is full with clothes and books and things like that.

So if those...

Everything goes into the closet.

Yeah, we could put that, we could store it in there if need be.

Okay.

And this, I mean, it's your house.

You're going to do this.

You don't need my permission or ruling to do this.

You're just asking essentially my

judgment as to when would be the appropriate time.

Yeah, that's essentially it.

When you think of your dad throwing all your stuff into the closet, what makes you feel worse?

Podameron in the dark?

Or the feeling that you no longer have a room of your own in the house that you grew up in?

Well, the thought of Po Dameron in the dark does strike up some

other feelings, but it makes me sad, most of all.

Not unreasonable.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to step into my chambers, think this over.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Clay, how are you feeling about your chances right now?

Not good.

I think we went a little deep on the dog observatory.

So

I hadn't quite thought we'd thought that one through all the way.

Well, I mean, you could start the not having thought it through with pandering to me, the guy who has no power in this situation.

You've successfully pandered to the audience with your quarter zip, to me with the dog observatory, and to him with nothing.

Lindy, how are you feeling about your chances right now?

I'm feeling pretty confident.

I think I have a solid baseline and, you know, I got Poe right behind me, so what more could I need?

We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this in just a moment.

Moving is the worst.

Yeah, but it's exciting too.

Our new MaxFun HQ office in downtown LA is actually going to fit all of us in it.

And the new studio is going to be so nice.

Plus, we'll have space for hangouts and events.

Yeah, you're you're right.

It's gonna be worth it, but boy is it expensive.

Maybe we can get some help.

Hmm.

Hey, cool, listener.

If you want to get fun stuff and help us move, go to maximumfun.org/slash moving day, where you can get vintage merch or buy naming rights to stuff around the office.

If you help us move by buying something, we'll invite you over for pizza and beer at our new place.

Maximumfun.org slash moving day.

If you want to know what's going on in the world of movies, you should be listening to Maximum Film so we can tell you all about it.

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Well, then you should definitely be listening to Maximum Film because we too have that problem, and it's important you know you're not alone.

We're talking indies you'll want to seek out.

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Together we're Maximum Film.

Smart about movies in Hollywood, so you don't have to be.

But if you already are, that's also great.

And hey, we see you.

New episodes every week on maximumfun.org.

Did Sean Hodgman?

We are taking a break.

from the stage at the Neptune Theater because we are hitting the stage not just in God's United States of America, but also in the godless United Kingdom.

Yes, that's absolutely right.

The Thrilling Adventure Hour starring Paul F.

Tompkins, Mark Evan Jackson, Mark Egliardi,

Busy Phillips, and many, many more talented people celebrating its 20th anniversary this year with some big shows, including upcoming one in London.

And I am joining them there.

That's right.

November 1st, I will be joining the cast.

The Work Juice Players at the Thrilling Adventure Hour at the Leicester Square Theater.

There are two shows.

The early show, I believe, is waiting list only, but there's some tickets left for the late show.

And if you want to grab them, please do.

Thrillingadventure.live is the link for tickets there.

And Jesse Thorne, Thrilling Adventure is enjoying its 20th anniversary.

Is there anything else that's celebrating an anniversary right around now?

I got them beat, baby.

The 25th anniversary of Bullseye with Jesse Thorne.

My public radio program is this year.

I started it in my dorm at UC Santa Cruz when I was 19 years old with my friends Jordan Morris and Gene O'Neal.

We are doing all kinds of celebrations.

We just did 25 consecutive interviews.

That's on the Bullseye with Jesse Thorne YouTube page right now.

Like I sat in a studio and interviewed 25 people in a row as they just sort of like came through.

All the Rob Hubels and Patton Oswalts and Elvis Mitchells, all these wonderful people who I have gotten to know over the years doing Bullseye.

cruised on through for five to seven minute interviews.

It is so fun.

You can can watch the whole thing on the Bullseye YouTube page.

We also, in addition to that, are doing live stage shows.

We just did the Los Angeles one.

I had such a great time with our friend Roy Wood Jr.

and Jason Manzoukis and Rebecca Sugar

and Al Madrigal as well.

We're also headed to Santa Cruz on November 1st at the Coombwood Jazz Center with Santa Cruz's own Adam Scott, plus filmmaker and rapper Boots Riley, stand-up comedians Scott Simpson and Glenn Washington from public radio's Snap Judgment, plus the greatest rock band in Santa Cruz history, The Merman.

I know what you're thinking, John.

You could really get contentious between The Mermen and Camper Van Beethoven.

Yeah, I was thinking that exactly.

Camper Van Beethoven don't tour anymore, so it's the Mermen because they say

they live there

in the venue, so it's fine.

The Merman said yes.

Then on November 15th, we'll be in New York City at the People's Improv Theater.

And by we, I mean, I think you're going to be in attendance, right, John?

I'm going to be, I'll definitely be hanging out.

I'm going to get a seat in the back row, and I'm just going to stare daggers at the stage the whole night long.

Daggers of delight to see these wonderful, my wonderful friend Jesse and his guests who are Jad Abumrod, of course, of Radiolab and an awesome new podcast about Felakuti.

H.

John Benjamin from Bob's Burgers and Archer, among many other things.

Kristen Anderson Lopez and Bobby Lopez, past Judge John Hodgman guests, friends of Judge John Hodgman,

EGOT home holders.

Their homes contain EGOTS.

Yep, they got the EGOTs.

They got the GOTS.

They probably don't even have room for family photographs on their mantelpiece because there's so many dang awards for their singing songwriting.

Exactly.

Plus, stand-up comedy from our friend Josh Gondelman.

Tickets are all for all those things are at maximumfund.org slash events.

And make sure to subscribe to Bullseye because we have so much cool 25th anniversary stuff hitting the podcast feed as well.

Special episodes and retrospectives and

prospectives and all kinds of wonderful stuff at maximumfund.org slash events.

And John, I'm making a special promise today.

Yeah, I'd like to hear it.

If you have a podcast and it has 100 reviews on Apple Podcasts, I'll go on your podcast.

As long as it's not like a Nazi thing or something, I'm on board.

100 reviews, no Nazis.

Jesse Thorne will be there.

Email us at hodgman at maximumfund.org about your podcast.

We'll shoot it over to my publicist, Emily Erskine, and we'll find the time.

I cleared out a bunch of time in my schedule.

I'm just promoting the 25th anniversary of Bullseye.

So all you so-and-so's out there with podcasts that people listen to, invite your boy on.

I'll bring my podcasting Hall of Fame trophy, and we'll do this thing.

I'm headed to see my friend Allison Rosen later today.

There you go.

Oh, that sounds so much.

You're going to talk on her podcast.

Yeah.

Allison Rosen's your new best friend.

Why?

Because she's the best.

She's my best friend.

She's terrific.

25 years of Bullseye.

Congratulations, Jesse.

If you have, if you made a promise to yourself 25 years ago that you are going to subscribe to Bullseye and its YouTube channel in 25 years, well, now's the time to do it.

Yep.

Make sure, go to maximumfund.org/slash events, get those tickets, subscribe to Bullseye, watch the YouTube.

And if you want to see me in London on November 1st, the few tickets remain at thrillingadventure.live.

Let's get back to the case.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

I actually, you know, Clay, I admire

your openness

to acknowledging in front of all of these people and your daughter that you're happy that she's gone.

And, you know, look, my wife is a whole human being in her own right, and I, our youngest child, just

left to go out into the world last fall, too.

And, or actually a year ago, last September, I should say.

And

our daughter just graduated from college and is living on her own for now.

And I'm annoyed by it because I want them both to come home.

all the time.

I just was on the drive from Vancouver to Seattle today.

I was saying to Jesse earlier,

while he was laughing to himself about Skagid Pud,

I was crying inside because I miss my children so much.

I really do.

And it's not to say that

it's not a mix of feelings.

Of course, I love my wife, who's a holy menrite,

so much, and we're really enjoying this time.

It's a wild time of freedom to do whatever we feel like and to watch whatever we want on television and to go to bed at 7.30 at night.

And,

you know, we don't have any dogs to observe, but I'm thinking of taking up a new hobby,

you know, but I really miss them a whole lot.

And indeed, their rooms

are,

well, their rooms for a long time were as they left them.

In part out of respect for them in case they wanted to come home and visit, but also in part due to laziness, because it's hard to, I'm not an industrious person.

Just might as well just close the door and walk away, you know, rather than.

And yet, over time,

you know, there was a time when my wife was like, well, I think

we should make

our son's room a little bit more neutral.

We should start, and we should start storing garbage in our daughter's room.

And to my great surprise, neither of them had any complaints about this.

And in fact, our daughter, who's now graduated from college,

was saying like, yeah,

you should make that your office or something, Dad.

Like,

I never want to go back there.

Which is...

Hard to hear, but great to hear too, because it's like, yeah, you are, this is an evolution of the family.

And

it is great to know that your kids feel that they are happy and independent outside of the family.

That's the whole point of the parenting job.

One of the main points, let's say, you know, the other is to obviously spread your seed and guarantee your legacy throughout eternity and make sure that your genetic material goes out into the world.

That's kind of job number one.

You'll observe those dogs doing that too, I'm sure, at some point.

For sure.

And as a father, job number two is, of course, to get really into the movie Master and Commander, the far side of the world.

Yes.

Indeed.

Have you seen the movie Master and Commander, the Far Side of the World?

I have not.

All right, I think I know enough to make my decision.

It sounds like you're about to have a Master and Commander Far Side of the World room.

Yeah.

You know, he would probably call it a Master and Commander fart side of the world room

because of his obsession with farts.

This guy's obsessed with farts.

I didn't bring that up.

No, I didn't.

Quoted a better Tom Papa joke than I've ever made and also makes better fart jokes.

It's weird.

Dad's running laps around me over here.

You asked me for judgment as when is the proper time?

to denude a child's room of their stuff and their cutouts and their posters and their identity and their presence in the home.

And And honestly, that's not for me to judge.

That is something for you to negotiate with Lindy.

And the fact that she's saying, I'm not ready yet, should be enough that you shouldn't take it to a podcast

to overrule your own daughter.

I think that there will be a time when Lindy will naturally.

want to dissociate herself from you.

That might have already happened tonight.

I don't think so because look where she's sitting next to you.

What a wonderful daughter she is to actually want to spend time with you.

This is something that

we as parents think about all the time.

How can we make sure our kids actually want to spend time with us rather than avoid us?

And one of the things we've decided is you have to make them comfortable at home.

And right now,

the kids don't care about their rooms anymore.

But if they do care, we would keep them that way so that we would lure them back into our lives.

There will come a time when it will not be important to Lindy and she will be ready to move on.

And then maybe, maybe, Clay, you'll feel something.

And I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to express your thoughts and wishes about wanting to, you know, scrape this room of all of her identity so that you can move on with your life.

You're being open as an adult human being now.

The fact you can have these adult conversations is very valuable and so forth.

And there may come a time sooner than you think that Lindyo is like, yeah, I don't want that stuff anymore.

Or I'm moving into my own apartment.

I want Podamarin with me in the dark.

Yeah.

I think you see where I'm going to rule.

But Lindy,

I'm sorry that you can't take Podamarin with you because of your

dud of a roommate.

Oh, no, she's cool.

I bet I could bring it now, but I just take the train back and forth.

So, really?

Yeah, you can't afford two tickets.

A snobby

stand-up card, because my snobby sneak is a much smaller character.

Yeah.

So, is that available?

No, I couldn't.

What the?

I searched and it just said, nah.

But Jesse,

you know what's really cool in a dorm room to have?

What's really cool in a dorm room to have?

It's not a dog.

No.

What's a cool dorm room pet?

I mean, if I was going to think...

I'm trying to think about different pets you get in dorm rooms and the one that's the coolest would probably be

a bearded lizard, I think.

A bearded dragon lizard?

Yeah, a bearded dragon lizard.

Well, there happens to be one in the house right now.

Isn't that right, Kadar?

Please bring forth the Neptune Theater's own

Lomez the Bearded Dragon.

Oh, hang on.

Kadar lost Lomez.

Kadar lost Lomez.

Everybody look under your seat.

Lomez the bearded dragon is here.

Would you bring Lomez over closer so that Clay may observe it?

This is Kadar's lizard.

First of all, this is Kadar, so let's start with how awesome that is.

Round of applause for Kadar, who's been working the monitors up here on stage.

And there's also Christopher and Derek back there doing the sound and lighting.

Lomez comes to work with Kadar in a special bubble backpack.

Yeah, Kadar, I kind of wanted you to bring out the backpack, too, so you could see how portable a bearded lizard is.

Oh, thank you.

So, Matthew, no, you're going to continue to hold Kadar because he's the star.

Bring him forward.

Is this okay?

Is he...

There is a pink sock monkey in the backpack.

We did ask Kadar if the pink sock monkey had a name.

He said, probably,

but the lizard doesn't speak English, so Kadar doesn't know what it is.

And you see, you could take this on the train back and forth, back and forth.

Oh, I totally could.

And it's very great for observation, wouldn't you say, Clay?

I absolutely think so.

Now, I'm not giving you Kadar's lizard.

Right?

No.

Okay.

I wasn't going to ask that much.

But bearded dragons are great pets, aren't they?

They are, absolutely.

They have a lot of personality, don't they?

They do.

Well, mostly.

Lomez, not so much?

Oh, he sleeps a lot.

Perfect.

Thank you so much.

Round of applause for Lomez.

Can I hop in that this is a really odd moment for me because I literally start

studied dwarf-bearded dragons while I was in college at the University of Washington for a class at Woodland Park 2.

Oh, yeah.

And it was amazing.

Okay, Boomer.

How the fk did you get a job?

Yeah.

Here I am making six figures doing underwater basket evening.

Okay.

That's wild.

I'm really starting to draw a line between my interest in observing dogs and now watching dwarf-bearded dragons for all those years.

So in any case, obviously I'm fine in Lindy's favor for all the reasons that I said.

But I further, I was going to sentence Lindy you to get a bearded dragon as your as your companion in college, but you're free and easy right now.

Clearly, it's your dad who needs a companion,

bearded dragon expert.

I order him to get a bearded dragon for you to visit in your own room when you get home.

That's your new roommate at home.

This is the sound of the gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Thank you, Clay, and Lindy.

Oh, my God.

It is awesome.

That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you to Reddit user Balta Nerdist for naming the case in this episode.

That's a classic Redditor.

Balton Erdist always getting up in the mix on the maximum fund subreddit.

We have so many talented people who are dropping in name suggestions in the subreddit.

I read it every week.

I have such a great time.

And I want to thank you all for submitting those name, those title suggestions.

They're all really great.

It's always hard to pick one.

Balton Erdist did it this time.

Who knows who will be next?

Follow us on Instagram at judgejohnhodgman.

We are on YouTube and TikTok at judgejohnhodgman pod.

By the way, John and I are both individually on Instagram as well.

That's true.

You're at John Hodgman.

John Hodgman's my personal account.

Someone camped on my name, Jesse Thorne.

So I am at Jesse Thorne very famous.

Jesse Thorne, very famous, all one word, all truth.

I didn't want people to think that it was one of those not famous Jesse Thorns.

No,

which is the famous Jesse Thorne I'm looking for?

It must be the very famous one.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

This episode, recorded by our friend Matthew Barnhart.

Thanks to Natty Loe, by the way, Matthew Barnhart just texted me a couple days ago about the prices to get the singer behind Drink Water and Mind My Business, the Judge John Hodgman

tour anthem to record a cameo.

Too expensive, he confirmed.

$180, not worth it.

I'll kick in some cash.

No, it's we don't, you you know, it's okay.

All right.

She's getting our streaming money because we just listen to that song over and over in the van.

There you go.

Thanks to Natty Lopez for her help on social media this week.

AJ McKeon is our podcast editor.

Daniel Spear is our video editor, our producer.

Of course, Jennifer Marmor.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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