Nom de Broom Live in Vancouver

It's the Judge John Hodgman podcast, and I am Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

With me is Judge John Hodgman.

This week's episode recorded live in Vancouver, British Columbia.

We talked about a family book club.

We talked about cutting fingernails.

We talked about cutting sandwiches.

And we talked about what to name your curling broom.

Very Canadian.

And when we talk about the very best way to cut a sandwich, we reference some testimony from some expert witnesses.

Make sure to listen all the way to the end of the episode to hear these voice memos from Deb Perelman and Kenji Lopez-Alt, our friends from the Recipe Podcast.

Let's go to the stage at the Hollywood Theater in Vancouver.

People of Vancouver, you asked us for live justice, and we are here to deliver it.

The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session.

Please welcome to the stage Adam and Catherine.

Adam brings the case against his wife, Catherine.

Catherine bought her family, Moby Dick, for Christmas

with the intention of starting a family book club.

No one in the family read the book except for Adam.

Catherine never even started it.

Adam is here for literary justice.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

Welcome to the courtroom.

Thank you, Adam and Catherine.

You may be seated.

Adam, you seek justice in my fake courtroom?

I do indeed.

So tell me about the Christmas when you got Moby Dick as a present.

Christmas of 2011 was the first Christmas that I spent with Catherine's family back when we were dating.

Oh, wow.

And when Catherine presented everyone except me with a brand new shiny copy of Moby Dick, I used this copy that my dad bought, used before I was born.

She didn't give you a copy of this book?

No, no, no.

Okay, go on.

It was obviously important.

You see this?

I'm ready to judge.

Oh, can I interject?

No.

No!

You'll shut your pie hole, ma'am.

In a moment, thank you very much.

It was obviously important for me to, you know, show well for Catherine's family.

And I think I did so.

So, Catherine, you gave a copy of Moby Dick to everyone in your family except the person you were dating to form a family book club.

Is this correct?

Sort of.

So, it was one copy per household.

So, we were living together at the time, so we only needed one.

So, actually, the copy that I got for me was for us, although Adam already had a copy.

I was going to ask Adam, did you suspect that the entire family was playing a joke on you?

Tricking you into reading Moby Dick?

It was difficult to calibrate to Catherine's family.

Catherine,

where's your copy?

I don't know.

I looked for it.

To be fair, this was a long time ago.

I mean,

14 years now, right?

Yeah, 13.

14 years?

Something.

Yeah, you haven't had time to read Moby Dick in a decade and a half.

Copy's probably not even shiny anymore.

Go back in time, if you were, to the old wailing days of Nantucket or 2011.

when you were coming up with this idea to have a family book club.

What was your motivation and what was your plan?

Okay, so Adam made it sound like he was trying to impress my family but actually we were trying to impress him with how literate we were and i think we failed so it was a family-wide prank

no we were dead serious so we are terrible cooks in our family adam showed up he makes the most amazing christmas meals and we're like we have to keep this guy around everyone has to work together for this what's your specialty adam Oh, Italian food.

Whale steaks?

Whale steak.

Italian food.

Italian food.

Italian food.

Whale carbonara.

Perfect.

So you were trying to impress him by pretending you were all going to read Moby Dick.

We were going to read Moby Dick.

So why didn't it happen?

So Adam was reading it for work purposes,

and he gave me a running commentary of it.

And to be perfectly honest, he didn't do a good job of selling it.

He said that there was a lot of antiquated satology in it.

And, you know, there are only so many hours in a day.

Remember how I was going to bring this gavel down so hard against you, Catherine?

I'm going to read it this year.

Wait, wait.

Remember how you just said satology, meaning the study of whales?

Gavel lifted.

We're back to neutral.

Unbiased once more.

You have a chance.

Why would someone who knows the word satology not want to read Moby Dick?

There's no more whaley book around.

I really want to read it.

Adam, maybe someday.

Adam Catherine said that you were reading it for work.

Are you a harpoonist?

No, I'm a musician.

You're in the Decembrists, I presume.

No, I'm a trumpet player.

I play in the Calgary Philharmonic.

We were playing an opera of Moby Dick that year.

Oh, okay.

And tell us about Moby Dick.

Good book?

The first and last fifth of the book are amazing.

That leaves three.

I'm not great at subtraction.

There's a middle three-fifths.

Those middle three-fifths are just antiquated satology.

Antiquated satology and nine gams.

And, you know, you got to get what you can.

I know what a gam is.

Sorry?

I know what a gam is.

I know you don't.

They're ladies who are married to GAMPs.

It's when two boats tie up to each other so they can meet each other and hang out and exchange news.

Right.

Because do you know what, Catherine?

I'm reading Moby Dick right now.

Oh, I am aware aware of that.

Oh, are you?

I'm reading it out loud on my sub stack.

I know.

Did you know that, Jesse?

I don't subscribe to the substack.

Yeah, good.

You'd love it because I read it in my main accent.

Oh, do you really?

Yeah.

Oh, no.

Call me Ishmael.

Those are the first three words.

That's as far as I've gotten.

I did.

Sounds like a real nightmare, Josh.

Can't catch a Nantucket from here.

It's a lot of fun.

It's a lot of fun.

You're really punishing our fans, are you?

I would say that I am not past the first fifth for sure, so I'm not getting into the boring gams part yet.

Yeah, though, the gams are okay, but when you read a long chapter about the philosophical affect of a whale's head and you finish it and you turn the page and you see that the next chapter is called Right Whale's Head, Alternate View,

it's a dark moment.

Do you know?

Do you know why?

Is this book going to have a point-counterpoint format?

So your whole family gave up on it?

Or do you think they ever even tried?

I don't think they tried.

Did you even try?

I read the first couple of chapters.

And I've never read the chapter.

Sometimes the chapters are only like two pages.

First couple of chapters is maybe 15 pages of prose.

I'm going to read it.

Adam, do you believe her?

Yes, I do believe her.

Would you like her to read it?

I think there are probably better things to read.

Go on.

What I would like, Catherine only reads books that I recommend to her when

someone in a more authoritative position also recommends them.

Okay.

And a book that I love and that I think Catherine would love and that I've heard you speak about before that I would love if you could recommend to her is The Broken Earth Trilogy by N.K.

Jemison.

I do recommend those.

That's an incredible trilogy for sure.

Oh, I'll read them for sure.

There you go.

But why don't you, I'm curious about this.

Why don't you...

Don't patronize the nerds, ma'am.

Why don't you read the books that your beloved husband, correct?

Yes.

Now, husband, your beloved husband recommends to you.

Well, sometimes I do.

I would like to point out

that you recommend a lot of stinkers.

Well, that's the worst one he ever recommends.

I think Adam knows.

I'm going to evade that question by saying that for Christmas, a few years after this Christmas, I read Dune as a Christmas gift to Adam.

Wow.

And I liked it.

That's doing a lot for a husband, I must agree.

Wouldn't you want me to compel her to read Moby Dick?

I mean, you could.

You are, of course, the judge, and I trust your judgment.

I think

for me,

especially these days, I'm leaning more into escapism in my art consumption.

So something of grim reality like Moby Dick.

It's a lot of fun, this book, Moby Dick.

It's very funny.

When you listen to me read it out loud on my sub stack,

you will hear how funny it is.

And indeed, I am not ordering you to read Moby Dick, Catherine, but you and your entire family shall listen to me read it.

How many are in your family?

I have two parents and two brothers.

Is that four households, including yours?

Yes.

I will give you three free subscriptions.

The others must pay.

Woo!

Until then, you have to read at least the first

first book on the broken earth told you by NK Jemison to make up for your failure to

fully prank Adam.

I deserve this punishment.

This is the sound of a gabble.

Thank you, Adam and Catherine.

Swift justice continues.

Please welcome to the stage.

Swift, Swift, Swift.

Melanie and Steve.

Melanie and Steve.

Welcome to the courtroom.

Thank you for being here.

Melanie brings the case against her husband, Steve.

Melanie says Steve cuts his nails wrong.

Steve says the way he clips his nails is fine, but it gives Melanie the ick.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Melanie, you have the ick with your husband, Steve, over this issue.

How does he disgust you with his fingernails?

First of all, can I just thank Melanie for recognizing this is a black tie occasion?

You both look wonderful.

Thank you.

We're on date night.

Oh, wonderful.

So how does your husband disgust you with his fingernails?

So what he does is he will take the fingernail clipper and he'll clip like one-third of the way.

And then after that clip is done, he just rips it off.

Steve, you've heard the reaction from the audience.

You're very lucky there is not an old fruit concession in the back of this room

Why why do you why do you do?

You have the nail clipper in one of your hands.

Why don't you just complete the job with the clipper?

So earlier in my life, I had really bad ingrown toenails.

They had to do surgery on it.

I remember the nurse kept going around and around.

This is definitely helping me with my ick.

Right?

So I got really sensitive to the length of toenails.

After that, sometimes the part I also want to just interject, we sat down.

I thought we were specifically talking about toenails, and she said they're all included.

I'm sorry, I had fingernails here.

I feel like it's all 10 nails, it's all

10 nails.

Let me just take a quick look at your fingernails, please, Steve.

Thank you.

And now, toes,

toes, please.

Let the record reflect that Steve is placing toes on me.

I won't ask for the other toes just because those other, I think they're probably the same, right?

Very close.

In the interest of time, I'll not make you disrobe your other foot.

Steve,

isn't this painful?

And doesn't it go horribly wrong

frequently?

Not frequently.

And also, I don't understand.

All right, we'll follow up on that.

You had to go to the hospital to have your ingrown toenails

dealt with.

I feel like that was earlier when I was a minor and I can't speak to like whatever they do to you.

But I have yet to make the connection as to why you do your, why you rip your fingernails off your fingers and your toenails off your toenails.

Well, it's basically the fingertna and the toenails.

I wouldn't want any of that to grow in and cause me discomfort.

Yeah, but you could clip them frequently.

I feel like clipping them leaves you with raggedy edges that are just waiting to do.

Raggedy?

More raggedy than tearing them off, Steve?

Are you familiar with asparagus?

I'll see where you're going with this, Counselor.

But watch yourself.

What does this have to do with asparagus?

Melon.

Am I going to have to smell your pea?

You will not.

If you could, you might smell it from where you are.

It's not not that kind of story.

None of that has helped me understand anything.

What is the can you help me understand the asparagus thing here?

If you farm asparagus and you're more like a gardener about it and less like a farmer about it, you grab a piece of asparagus and you break it off.

Depending on how the asparagus is feeling.

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about the famous parable of the asparagus farmer.

What's something that's relatable that will help me explain myself?

What famous story do I know?

Oh yeah, the old asparagus farmer yarn.

When you farm asparagus, you're not precious about it.

You tear it out of the earth.

Mommy, mommy, I cannot sweep.

Tell me the story of the asparagus farmer.

No, you must read Dune.

A picture of my children's growing up.

The asparagus breaks off where it's best to break off.

It's on the ground, it's not really done yet.

If it breaks off at the top, then that's where you have to leave that asparagus.

And some of it, I think, is just 99 out of 100 times, no problem.

You're letting the nail speak to you.

And what happens the one out of 100 times when it goes wrong?

A horrible infection?

I mean, not horrible infection.

Why are you waving to the audience?

Don't expect.

Like, they all know?

You know.

He's like, you all know.

He's like, no, no, not horrible infection.

I rather enjoy it.

What happens when it goes wrong, Melanie?

He gets a little wound.

He gets a little wound.

And how does this hurt you exactly?

What are the damages against you?

So it's not exactly damages against me, but like I'm a nurse, and I'm specifically a skincare nurse.

Yeah.

So in that case, there like is guidance on how you're supposed to cut nails.

And because why?

I mean I would imagine that there's a chance of infection if you wound yourself that way, if you're

a nail off.

As people get older,

they don't heal as well and then you're opening yourself up to infection.

You're saying that

he could bleed to death from his pinky.

No, of course sepsis.

I'm more concerned about sepsis.

You're a good point.

You ever hear the story about the asparagus farmer and the the sepsis?

Too many times.

Obviously, Steve, you have some unresolved trauma during your childhood experience with ingrown toenails.

You had to go to the hospital.

You don't even remember what happened exactly.

You have a mental block.

You went into a fugue state where you imagined everyone follows asparagus husbandry.

This is something that you need to work through.

Good news for you, Steve.

You're married to a nurse who knows how to cut nails clinically I order you to cut his toenails and fingernails properly from now on so that he can work through his trauma and maybe you two can have some romantic time together this is the sound of a gut

thank you Melanie and Steve

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Let's bring out our next litigants.

Please welcome to the stage, Colin and Sam.

Colin and Sam are good friends who agree on everything with one exception.

The correct way to cut a sandwich in half.

Judge Hodgman.

Colin and Sam, you may be seated.

Welcome to the courtroom.

You are friends.

Yes.

Which one is Colin?

I'm Colin.

I really wanted you to both raise your hands at the same time.

Sorry.

Dropped the ball on you.

I'm Colin too.

Because I would have said, oh, they must be brothers and members of the same Viking tribe.

Yeah, I was going to ask if you met at the Vat Guy Club.

You both seem to have, you both are gingers.

Yes.

Both have great big ginger beards.

One of you has ginger hair on top.

You both look like you met at a Ren Fair or

a caber tossing festival.

How long have you been friends?

Subtraction is hard.

Eight, maybe ten years.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, very ten years.

Closer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Almost as long as there's been a Mobi Deck Book Club that hasn't been.

Yeah, precisely.

And sorry, you are Sam.

I'm Colin.

You are Colin.

You're the accused.

I'm Colin, too.

This is the accused over here.

You're Colin.

No, Colin is right.

Sam is wrong.

Even though I am on the left.

Colin, Sam, call him.

Jesse, you know that story about the asparagus farmer who lost his mind?

Lost his mind and didn't know where he was anymore, and language didn't seem to work anymore?

Yeah.

My gam told me that story.

Jesse, if I turn around, are these two guys going to still be there, or am I hallucinating?

I'm 60% confident they switched places at some point.

All right, one of you actually, you have notes in your hand.

I do.

And which one are you?

I'm Sam.

Really?

It depends on the day.

Colin?

Yes.

Sam.

Got it.

Sam.

What's in your notes?

Well, it's evidence to help me

explain how I cut a sandwich because every time we seem seem to explain it, people don't quite understand the monstrosity.

Let me see the note.

Monstrosity?

Yes.

I see.

May I show this to my bailiff?

You may.

And turn to evidence, Collins' drawing.

Don't reveal that to the audience just yet.

Sam's drawing.

That was actually.

Can I reveal?

Hold on.

Can I reveal that he signed and dated it?

i'm going through my notes here and i still don't know which one of you is sam or colin

you're

sam colin yes let me see if i can understand this this is a very controversial topic regarding how to cut a sandwich in half correct yes and people feel very strongly about this one way or the other so before we begin before you explain how your friend whose name i've already forgotten

cuts his sandwich.

I just want to appeal to the audience.

What you're going to hear is shocking.

If you are repulsed or disturbed, I only ask that you express this very loudly.

Colin, how does Sam cut his sandwich?

Horizontally.

Jesse, show the picture.

Yeah, yeah, come on.

That is to say, anti-diagonally.

Anti-diagonally, anti-vertically.

Like, I'd be okay with straight up and down, too, but like...

If you imagine that a loaf of sandwich bread has two bulbs atop it,

where it has spilled forth over the pan,

he has cloven the sandwich down through those bulbs.

No across.

He has...

If you imagine a sandwich has two bulbs at the top

and what I'll call a shaft below

he has horizontally sliced across the shaft generating two half sandwiches which are not identical one has bulb one only shaft

correct

Colin why is this wrong oh

Sam's family runs a cafe

so

it's not just that Sam is wrong.

He's learned it the wrong way and they're handing out wrong sandwiches.

I'm just concerned for the people of Greenwood, BC that they would encounter such monstrosities.

Shout out to Greenwood!

Woo!

All 12 of us.

Sam, your family runs a cafe in Greenwood, BC.

That's right.

Do they cut sandwiches this way when they are selling them to people for their hard-earned loonies and toonies?

They actually do not cut the sandwich at all.

It is cut just.

Oh, well, that explains it.

You never saw.

No, I.

You had to make this up for yourself.

You're like a feral child.

I've been out on these mean streets.

It's been hard.

Why is, how would you prefer to cut the sandwich?

I would prefer it diagonally.

I would be okay with vertically, but diagonal gets the best bite.

It just seems that there was a lack of thought put into this.

You know, we have friends

of the podcast, Kenji Lopez-Alt, great food writer.

Deb Perelman, the Smitten Kitchen, also an incredible food writer.

They do an incredible podcast together called The Recipe, and I heard them have this exact fight.

And Kenji made the point that if you cut a sandwich diagonally, it actually maximizes the interior biteaby.

That is,

it...

reveals more interior sandwich than any other cut, according to him.

And that it's easier to eat because you can get the corners in your mouth more easily.

Deb cut the sandwich horizontally, put that on the internet, and was destroyed.

I think she said that she got 640 direct messages

within five hours calling her a monster, and the story was picked up by NPR and the Washington Post, and her life has never been the same.

You are also going to be on blast now.

Yes.

But why does this hurt you if he's eaten the sandwich that he likes?

It's just, we found that 1%

difference.

Non-compatibility.

Non-compatibility.

And it's just how, how can someone so,

how can that 1% be so monstrous?

Like, you know, like, that's my, like, you know, couldn't you just like like different music or something?

Like,

what's your favorite kind of sandwich?

Ooh, that's a tough club sandwich.

Got it.

Got it.

Traditionally, what a short road you went down.

I know.

I was shocked.

I've never been that that quick.

Colin, best sandwich?

I'm into Italian subs these days.

Italian subs?

You can't cut those diagonally?

No, you can't cut them diagonally, but you don't cut them horizontally either.

You don't cut them lengthwise.

I hate to bring this up, Jesse, but I'm sure you've seen the burrito cuts, the horizontal burrito cuts.

No, I haven't seen them.

I just saw something die inside of Jesse.

I'm very sorry.

I got to do a whole breast of the show, man.

I'm sorry.

They take the burrito and they cut it down.

Yeah.

Not a cross.

No.

Like that?

What do they eat it with a fing spoon?

Basically.

Yeah.

You haven't.

Look, Colin, I know where you're coming from.

I agree.

I grew up being a horizontal cut person.

Wow.

That's just how my

mom and dad packed my lunches for me.

And when I first cut my sandwich diagonally, I thought, I am murdering my mother and father.

I am murdering the Hodgman family tradition.

And yet, I like it better that way.

I am team diagonal as well.

But you have not shown any damages.

This does not affect your sandwich.

Everyone in life has to eat their own sandwich.

And indeed, a sandwich is a very personal thing.

How you have your sandwich, how you cut it, how you eat it, how you enjoy it.

I think we have to leave it to Sam to enjoy his sandwich.

But I do order this.

ever heard the story about the asparagus farmer?

Often.

The asparagus farmer knows you don't just cut the asparagus willy-nilly where you want.

The asparagus shows you where it wants to be cut.

Next time you have a sandwich, don't cut it.

Just sort of like break off a little bit.

Let it speak to you.

Find the natural fault in the sandwich, and then tear it apart like an animal.

And for you,

other one,

Colin,

may I defend myself?

No, I just found your favor, but go on.

The timer screen is already red, sir.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Thank you, Colin and Sam.

Vancouver, are you ready for

mega justice?

Let's bring out our litigants.

Please welcome to the stage Taryn and Lauren.

Tonight's case, Nam de Broom.

Taryn brings the case against her sister, Lauren.

Taryn and Lauren are both practitioners of that king of Canadian sports, curling.

Yeah, that's right.

You heard me, hockey.

Take off, you hosers!

And f ⁇ you too, five-pin bowling.

Yeah!

Someone had to say it.

Someone had to say it, but not you.

But not me.

Jesse said it.

You made me say it.

Anyway.

Taryn owns a controversial curling broom.

And she named it in honor of Beyonce.

But Lauren hates the broom.

She won't even say its name, say its name.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Hey, man,

all I did was cut his bulk mescaline for street sale and neglect to pay him.

Chris, on the other hand, crushed his head with a curling rock.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Taryn and Lauren, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever.

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he only likes that weird kind of bowling they do at that one bowling alley he likes in Maine?

Possibly candle pin bowling, but I don't remember.

Well, let's see.

It's not duck pin.

It's not duck pin with the rubber bands around it, and it's certainly not five-pin bowling.

There are ten candle pins,

the king of bowling.

Taryn and Lauren, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

Taryn, you go first.

Sure.

I will go with

an interview with Brad Gushu from the podcast Broomgate.

Why is your cultural reference more obscure than mine?

I'm a Canadian curler.

All right, Lauren, are you a Canadian curler?

Oh, very much so.

So, did you get my obscure cultural reference?

I don't think I did, but I prepared a guess, which is Bedknobs and Broomsticks, starring Angela Lansbury.

I love that guess.

I love both of those guests, but all guesses are wrong.

Of the two, probably, Lauren, you are closer because it is from a movie and it involves broomsticks.

It's from bed knobs and broomsticks starring Jason Stathon.

No, it was from a movie called Men with Brooms, a 2002 Canadian comedy that I have never seen, but was referenced on our one and only other curling episode on Judge John Hodgman.

I think it was episode 652.

But in any case, don't write me letters.

In any case, you're both wrong, so we have to hear this case.

Taryn, you bring the case against Lauren, is that correct?

I do.

And you are sisters, siblings, and who's the older one?

That would be me.

Lauren?

Okay, so would you like to start dominating the conversation now?

I'll let her go first.

Okay, well, tell me, one of you should tell me about curling.

And tell me all about curling and why it's better than hockey and five-pin bowling.

That would be for Lauren.

All right, Lauren.

Well, curling is a game played with 40-pound stones on a sheet of ice

where you throw the stone down the sheet, your teammates sweep with a broom

to control the speed of the stone, and you try to get it to the end and be closest to kind of a bullseye at the other end.

Have you ever done the version of curling that's a combination with the Canadian table game of croquinole?

I don't think I have.

Well, I guess one on you there.

I think it's called curl a croak.

Curlinole.

I don't know what it's called, but it sounds fun to me.

All right.

And

what you have, Taryn, in your hand is a broom.

We're going to talk about this broom in detail in a second.

But first of all, you both curl.

You're part of a curling league.

Looks like you're wearing some merch from your curling league.

What is the name of your team?

Our team is called the Grippers.

Okay.

And a gripper is the sticky shoe, because you have a slidey shoe and a sticky shoe.

Got it?

Each person wears one of each type of shoe?

Yes.

Oh, okay.

So you're two shoes.

Do the two shoes start the same and you do something to one of the shoes?

Yes, you remove the gripper and then you have the slider and the sticky one.

Got it.

I would have presumed you'd add something sticky to one of them.

And what positions do you each play on your like chewing gum you nasty freaks?

I'm the third.

Okay.

Yeah, a very important position.

Well, okay.

Don't presume I know what you're talking about.

Thank you.

Explain.

I'm the skip.

The boss.

Also known as the older sister.

That's correct.

You tell

the other, the sweepers where and how to sweep.

That's absolutely clear.

By yelling at them.

Absolutely.

Okay, very good.

And the third is an important position.

I don't, I mean, I presume there's a first and a second?

Okay.

The third in old-timey curling was called the vice skip.

So I like to call myself that sometimes.

Okay.

Guess what?

It's 2025.

Okay.

Fair enough.

We now play the modern sport of curling.

In old timey curling, people died.

They also used corn brooms, which...

Corn brooms?

What are you talking about?

Like

the corn cobs?

Like what you're doing in your porch with, like a corn cross?

Corn?

Does corn mean something else in British Columbia?

I think it was made from the husks or something.

It's a corn broom.

Like a straw broom.

Yeah, correct.

Okay.

We call them corn brooms.

No, no, no, no.

I mean, look, I'm not an expert on broomology.

I'm sure there is such a thing as a broom broom.

It used to be in the United States, we prefer our corn unsweat.

It used to be played with basically house brooms, whatever that you might, whatever, what,

you know about the asparagus farmer?

The people listening won't know that one, so forget that.

But so in old timey times, it would be played with regular old house brooms, but now there are special brooms that are special made, and you have a very special broom indeed with you, Terran.

Why don't you raise it up

in a pose of victory and show people your broom?

Oh, I thought people were booing your broom already.

Judge Hodgman, they're horny.

That's

they're horny for the special broom.

That's how it goes in no fun city.

You get horny for a a curling broom.

People might boo this broom, though, because it's a controversial broom.

It sure is.

What makes it a controversial broom?

Well,

basically, if you're very good at curling, you cannot use this broom because it makes you too good at curling, and you can...

put the rock wherever you want if you sweep with it.

What about it?

May I hold your broom?

Absolutely.

I think it's honored.

It's very lightweight.

What makes it

so handy at making whatever it is you were saying?

The fabric on it is like a special type of fabric that essentially like carves into the ice and you can direct the

rock wherever you want.

If you're very good and very strong and like very talented, which we are not.

The broom is enhanced.

Yes.

Lauren, would you say that

would the grippers ever use such a broom in regular competition?

Oh, heck yeah.

We need every advantage we can get.

Oh, so you're not against.

No, I love the broom.

But it seems to me like, I mean, when you submitted this case, you called it a cheating broom.

It is, if you're good, which we are not, yeah.

So, okay.

But, like, you aren't allowed to use it if you're good.

And because it's a cheating broom, you gave it a name.

You named it in honor of Beyoncé, but not for Beyoncé.

Correct.

What is the name of the broom?

Jay Sweep.

Jay Sweep.

As in Jay-Z.

Yes.

For example.

And Lauren Jay-Z did admit on the record to the New York Times magazine, where the Judge Chanhattvin column appears.

No.

No, no, no, no.

I see you, Vancouver.

I see what excites you.

Curling broom.

I traveled across a continent to be here.

Mention my column.

You're like, eh.

Lauren Jay-Z did admit on the record to the New York Times magazine that he did indeed cheat on Beyoncé during their marriage.

So it seems like the name is sort of appropriate.

Why are you against the name Jay Sweep for this cheating broom?

Yes, so I would love it to be on the record that I love my sister very much.

I'm so glad that she's doing this weird Canadian sport that not people our age do not usually do.

Love it.

You're doing it too.

Yes, but I am weird.

That's okay.

Okay.

She's cool.

Who recruited whom into the curl, into the curling lifestyle?

I recruited Taryn.

I've been watching for many years like an old lady.

Oh, nice.

Yeah.

So the reason I am anti-the name is simply that I can never remember what it is.

J Sweep.

Yes, sure.

Did you forget?

Did you forget already?

What's the name?

Say its name.

Say its name.

J-Sweep.

You remembered.

I got it this time.

Okay, under pressure.

On a stage talking about it.

Right.

It's easier.

But when Terry brings it.

I feel like you're acting kind of shady and just calling it a baby.

Fair enough.

But when Taryn brings it out, I'm like, oh, it's your broom.

It's named after Beyonce.

It's beautiful.

It's broom Beyonce.

No, it is not.

It is some other name that I can't remember because who cares about Jay-Z?

It's Beyonce.

I mean...

Yeah, who cares about Jay-Z?

So your objections are you can't remember it.

Correct.

You think it's a bad name.

Correct.

You think that it dishonors Beyoncé because it honors her cheating husband.

Absolutely.

And it should be called Brumiance.

Yes, or one of a few names that I've come up with.

Let the records show that

Lauren has produced a piece of paper.

May I just take a look at the evidence?

Please.

All right.

Judge Hodgman, can you confirm whether that's signed and dated?

I do confirm it.

Jesse Thorne, may I hand that to you for you to read in a moment?

Yeah.

All right, very good.

Thank you.

Have you heard some of the other names that Lauren has suggested?

I have not.

They have been kept from me.

In general, how do you feel?

Do you feel precious about the name, Jay Sweep, or would you be open to a suggestion?

I am open to it if it's better.

Right.

Yeah, it would be.

Now, I've only reviewed the names very quickly.

We're going to hear them in a moment.

But

does your older sister, Taryn,

always try to push you around and rename things?

No.

Hang on a second.

Lauren, just do me this favor while Taryn tries to answer.

Stop staring at her with your arms crossed in a threatening way.

Yes, Your Honor.

No.

Lauren, look at me right here.

Look right over here.

Look over here.

Taryn,

are you okay?

I will be, yes.

All right, very good.

Can you explain?

You're free to answer now.

You don't have to do that anymore.

That was weird.

I apologize.

She does not bully me or

pressure me to name things I don't want.

She's very supportive of me.

We name a lot of things together, which is really nice.

It's nice.

What other things have you named together?

Yeah, what do you do on a sisterly naming date?

Like, it's like, hey, I haven't seen you in a couple.

I presume you don't cohabitate.

You have your own separate lives.

Not anymore.

Right, okay.

So do you ever call yourself something?

You want to go out today and name some stuff?

Get some brunch and name things?

Yeah, it sounds great.

Okay.

Like what kind of things have you named in the past?

Together or separately or what?

When we lived together, we named all of our kitchen appliances

different things.

One, our toaster was named Brother Cavill for Battlestar Galactica.

Wow.

No, no, no.

Do you know what?

It's okay if you don't want to applaud my column in the New York Times Magazine.

But when Vancouver doesn't applaud Battlestar Galactica,

it's time for the robots to take over and destroy us.

This is BSG Town.

Do you forget how soon they forget?

You named your toaster Brother Cavill like the character in Battlestar Galactica?

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, that's right, Jesse.

I forgot.

Battlestar Galactica was filmed right here in Vancouver.

What What other names did you give to your other appliances?

Our coffee grinder was Johnny Castle

from Dirty Dancing.

Oh, okay.

Because he's a grinder.

Lauren, do you remember any that you're particularly fond of?

Yeah, our tea kettle, we named Sandy Ryerson from Glee, Stephen Tobolowski's character from Glee.

I love Stephen Tobolowski.

He doesn't.

He was on that show, Dick Town.

All right, all right.

And where are all of these kitchen appliances now?

Probably the dump.

This sounds like the saddest Pixar movie ever.

They are at the recycling electronics place.

They all live together happily on a farm

near the asparagus fields.

Near the asparagus fields of British Columbia.

John, when you got in from like the immigration controls coming in in the Vancouver airport, were you greeted with an enormous wall-sized photo that said in huge letters across the top, welcome to Vancouver, British Columbia.

And then underneath it just had a bunch of home appliances.

Yeah, I was.

That was really weird.

Yeah, that was a trip.

Oh, how about that?

All right.

So I just, I don't know what ceremonial purpose they serve for your people, but it's clearly something.

So,

and you agreed on these names together, and no one was ever forcing a name or whatever.

You never had an issue with anything that Taryn named until this broom was named.

Do you remember his name?

Yes, Jay Sweep.

See, you can remember.

Just weep.

Jay Zweep.

Interesting.

Well, let's go ahead down the list, Taryn.

Just, this is not my official ruling.

Keep an open mind.

Let's hear these ideas that Lauren has.

Alternate broom names.

One, Broom Yonce.

All right, we've heard it.

She doesn't cheat, but.

Two, Brusha Fierce.

Not sure I catch that reference because I'm weird.

Three, Stone Longe.

There's a medium.

That I get.

Solange.

Correct.

Stone Longe.

Correct.

It's a broom.

And we use it to brush stones.

Well, you don't brush stones.

You brush ice.

So the stone can slide over it.

Do you really curl, dude?

Yes.

Do you even curl?

Oh, I curl.

Okay.

Do you even curl, bro?

Number four, sir sweeps a lot.

I feel like that's been done to death a little.

Yeah.

That is fair.

Five, Broomie.

Which is that, it's spelled B-R-U-M-I.

Is that after the poet Rumi?

Taryn can tell you who that's after.

It's one of Beyoncé's children.

Ah.

Oh.

Okay.

Honorable mention, Broom Ivy.

Broom Ivy.

The biggest response was Sir Sweeps a lot

because that from the audience was kind of a classic.

And it's also outside of the whole Beyoncé genre.

No, it is not.

Her son is named Sir.

Named after Seattle's own Sir Mixilot?

That I do not know.

Oh, okay.

Just an extrapolation.

Exactly.

Okay.

Is there something about the name Jay Sweep that offends you deeply or makes it hard for you to understand or remember the name?

I think it's not quite a joke.

It's not quite there.

It's not quite there.

And it doesn't offend me.

I did not sue Taryn.

She brought me to court.

I would let her call it whatever she liked, but she brought me to the stage.

And I need to defend my position, which is that I just don't remember it because it's not, it doesn't stick.

It's not a sticky name.

It's not carefully crafted like Stone Lange.

It's a slidey name, not a sticky name.

Thank you.

All right.

Yes.

I understand.

Taryn, would you agree with me that

none of Lauren's suggested names are as good as J-Sweet?

Yeah.

Sorry, Lauren.

No, that's okay.

I like them.

I like them, don't get me wrong.

I don't think they're better necessarily either, but I will remember them because I wrote them.

Taryn, Lauren keeps claiming that she can't remember the name of your broom.

Yes.

Do you think this is genuine forgetfulness?

Truly, yes.

Is she forgetful in other ways?

Should she be evaluated?

Not evaluated, but there are words she just can't remember sometimes.

Like what?

Can you remember any of the words she can't remember?

I sure can.

There is a particular kitchen utensil that is sort of specific and weird, and she can never remember how to actually pronounce the word.

And it's like a mixture of a spoon and a spatula.

I would call it a spoonula.

I've never even heard of it.

It's a spoonula.

That doesn't make sense.

And what did you say, Lauren?

Spunula.

Is this a Canadian thing that everyone has?

What other implements have combined coming in?

That was the most incredible, unanimous no.

I love that.

What other implements have been combined here in this nation?

That's a great question.

A fork and a lint brush.

Toaster and a blender.

To blend.

No, it's Brother Cavill.

Lauren,

do you ever have to use a broom as the skip?

Yes, so I use a broom to indicate.

I don't sweep with it.

That's for the lesser numbers on the TV.

There we go.

I hold the broom to show where they should throw it.

It's an indicating broom.

It's an indicating broom.

It's a purely ornamental pointing broom.

It's very ornamental, yes.

So like the boss of the team's job is to hold a broom and point at the place the thing's supposed to go?

Absolutely.

I mean, it's drawn on the ice, right?

It is drawn on the ice.

There's quite a lot of strategy.

They call it chess on ice.

Sure, they do.

Yeah, when they say, when you say they, you are referring to...

Oh,

curling legend Russ Howard, of course.

Curling legend Russ Howard,

without any self-interest at all, calls curling chess on ice.

But you do have to, when you point to it, this is what I call my point-and-gabble.

Yes.

Like, it's not just that you want to get it right in the house, necessarily.

You want to get as close to it, but it might be that you want to knock another person's stone out of the circle.

Or place a guard above the house.

Or place a guard above the house, Jesse, like everyone knows.

Yeah.

So you would point like that.

Here, why don't you show me how you do it?

I'd be happy to.

You could use a broom.

If we were going for a guard, I would point above the circle like so, and then I would indicate the turn of the rock, in turn or out-turn.

Very nice.

Thank you.

May I have my gavel back?

See, that's the kind of respectful reaction I've come to expect from you, Canada.

Do you know my gavel's name?

A whole gavel in its own right?

Was she nice to you?

He says you're fine.

Oh, good.

And what is the name of your pointin' broom?

So my broom does not have a name.

What?

My broom was inherited from my mom.

Or no, she bought it for me.

So I forgot.

Our teammate.

Karen, did you know that your mom was still alive?

News to me.

Our teammate has our mom's inherited broom.

My mom bought me my broom, and I just never named it, but it's not a working broom.

It's ornamental.

It doesn't need a name.

Do any of the other brooms have names on your squad?

Yes.

Our mother's heritage broom.

I gave it to one of our teammates.

The first or the second?

You're the third.

The second.

The second, okay.

And she named it Purple Ivy.

Pink Ivy.

Pink Ivy.

It's pink, but it has a purple.

Oh.

Seems like no one can remember.

All right, Taryn, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

I would love for her to remember the broom's name and use it every once in a while.

And Lauren, what would you have me rule if I had to rule in your favor?

I mean, I would love for Taryn to acknowledge, as all older siblings would like, that I was right,

that

my idea was better, which who knows if it was, but that's what I want.

And to just be okay with me not remembering the broom.

I'll try.

I'll do my best, but I don't know.

I'm 41.

The mind is going.

How dare you?

How dare you, child?

All right, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my secret chambers.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

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Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the stage at the Hollywood Theater, and I am headed to the stages of theaters across this great nation.

By across this great nation, I mean in three places across this great nation.

Those places being

number one, New York City, number two, Los Angeles, specifically Pasadena.

Number three,

Santa Cruz.

Why?

Yeah, and why?

Are you just going to different airports to check the payphones, see if they have any quarters in them?

Those are the three homes of Bullseye with Jesse Thorne, which is celebrating its 25th anniversary this autumn.

I, of course, live here in L.A.

We produce the show here in L.A.

and LAST in Pasadena is our home station.

We'll be performing at the Crawford there.

Santa Cruz is where the show started 25 years ago when I was a student at UC Santa Cruz with my friends Jordan and Gene.

And New York City is the first place we ever did a live show.

And in fact, we are performing at the first place we ever did a live show, the People's Improv Theater in New York City.

We have incredible lineups for all three shows, unbelievable lineups for all three shows.

Plus, we have a live streaming spectacular on October 9th that features 25 of my favorite people who I have email addresses for.

It is 25 interviews in a row, not old interviews, new interviews, 25 interviews in a row conducted by me over the course of three hours on October 9th from 5 to 8 p.m.

All of the information for all of that stuff is at maximumfund.org slash events.

It is going to be an extravaganza.

And if you subscribe to Bullseye, you will get some of the classics from our 25-year history over the course of this autumn.

I'm so, so excited about it.

John, in addition to all those things, we also have a job opening.

That's right, Jesse.

We're looking for a new social media strategist, someone to post stuff across all of our social media and interact and help our audience connect with us.

And we're really excited to be accepting applications now.

It's a halftime paid job.

We'd love somebody with some expertise in social media management.

You can go to maximumfund.org slash jobs to find the job listing, maximumfund.org slash jobs.

It might be nice if you're in Los Angeles, but absolutely not necessary.

We're taking applications from around the country.

So maximumfund.org slash jobs is the place to go if you want to see that job listing.

And

yeah, I think it's a, I think it's really cool, fun gig.

So we're looking for somebody really awesome to do it.

Maximumfund.org slash jobs.

And while you're over there at maximumfund.org slash jobs, make sure I'll remind you to go over to maximumfund.org slash events.

Those big bullseye 25th anniversary shows are not to be missed.

They're going to be a lot of fun.

You know, from the sound of young America to bullseye, Jesse Thorne interviewing people has been a part of my weekly life and I hope it's been a part of yours.

I wouldn't be here talking to you if Jesse hadn't interviewed me so long ago on Bullseye's predecessor, The Sound of Young America.

And I'm so glad to be introduced to all of the people.

that Jesse has interviewed over the years.

It's an incredible show and it is worth celebrating and even more so in person.

MaximumFund.org slash events for all of the ticket links there.

Let's get back to the stage in Vancouver.

Taryn, how are you feeling about your chances right now?

I feel all right.

Why is that?

She didn't come up with very good names.

Yeah, I'm going to be frank.

These names really suck ass.

Wow.

Thank you.

Wow.

Lauren, how are you feeling?

Not as good, certainly.

I did think I.

Why is that?

Because your name sucks.

I did think with the court's history of

older siblings telling younger siblings what to do,

not hugely favorable.

But also,

I can't remember.

I don't know what to do about that.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this in just a moment.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Lauren,

I do feel for you.

There are certain terms that I just cannot remember.

And it's not, there's no rhyme nor reason to why I can't remember the name for one thing or another.

I certainly can't remember the name of the thing you were talking about before,

the spoonocula.

That's close.

I hope never to see one.

That's a combination of a spoon and a speculo.

Frankly, I consider it a gift of my aging mind that I will never remember what that thing is, so that when I see it, it'll just be like an an episode of Westworld.

That means nothing to me.

It is not merely because I am old, indeed, older than you, that I cannot place my mind into recalling certain basic concepts or anything.

It's just like since I was a child, I've been unable to remember to this day what you call

the,

I keep wanting to say machine,

but it's the vehicle that the letter carrier drives to drop off the mail.

Is it a

postal bus?

It might be different in Canada.

It's something that I grew up with, and it was like

a blue and white Jeep with U.S.

Postal Service on it.

And I had

the steering wheel is on the opposite side of what is typical in Canada and the United States, so that they could just reach over and throw letters into the mailboxes or whatever.

And I would see it around.

I goes, there goes the.

I

can only ever say the words

mail machine.

And I, to this moment, don't know what it's called, and I don't want to know ever.

That was my nickname in college.

My wife calls it me, calls me that to this day.

Excuse me, mail machine.

Can you come in here for a moment and bring the broom?

So I actually believe you when you say for some reason your brain cannot get purchase on the name of Taryn's broom.

Now, Taryn has the right to name her broom whatever she wants to name it.

It's her broom.

It is like none other.

And you're the one who uses it.

You have a different broom that's your own.

You really don't have any right to say.

And I must say that

your list of alternate broom names,

I'm not rude like my bailiff.

I'm just going to say none of them stood out as such a marked improvement on that list of names that you suggested that I would overrule Taryn's personal decision, except for one.

Because you're right.

Jay Sweep doesn't really track.

Doesn't really track.

Jay Zweep?

That's the name of the broom name.

Sorry.

Sorry, Taryn.

Do you accept that?

I don't care.

But I will also say that you have to give your broom a name, your ornamental pointing, and you're going to love this, Lauren.

It's going to be called Stone Launch.

Beautiful.

I do love that.

Because that makes sense, because you're showing people where they should be launching the stone.

Perfect.

I know it's terrible.

It's terrible.

But it's curling.

What are you going to do?

And your other team, your other team members can pick the names of their own room.

And Taryn, if you want want to call it J-Sweep, that's fine.

But I think Jay Sweep is a little bit

slightly more punchy.

It gets the Z in there.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, anyway, that's how I rule.

I guess I technically rule in Lauren's favor.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Sorry, Taryn.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Taryn Lauren, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

A year or so ago, I uploaded a video demo for my recipe for tomato soup that you serve with grilled cheese sandwiches.

At the end, I cut the sandwiches in half for serving, and it caused a minor commotion in the comments, such as, this was the most amazing video until that shocking twist at the end.

How does one even cut a sandwich that way?

You're supposed to cut grilled cheese on the diagonal.

My soul gasped when I saw the horizontal cut.

I polled readers on the correct way to cut a sandwich, my way, vertical, quadrants, or diagonal, and the overwhelming majority majority voted for diagonal.

I have never been so confused.

By the way, one of my favorite comments was, can I vote for any way but the way you cut it, Deb?

The next morning, I hid 620 DMs about the correct way to cut a sandwich in my inbox.

Somebody said, you hit a collective nerve we did not know we had.

And do you eat your hamburger upside down?

It made it to NPR, The Washington Post, The Today Show.

I don't know, maybe we needed a distraction from the news.

For the next year, I was sent at least one sandwich cutting meme a day.

People would highlight a passage in a novel that described cutting a sandwich in half and send it to me.

Apparently, Obama also feels that sandwiches should be cut on the diagonal, but who asked him anyway?

Anyway, the thing is, the Smitten Kitchen is a very agreeable place.

All opinions matter.

I actually like it when you mess with my recipes and report back about how it goes.

I like it when you share your point of view.

And yet on Sandwich Gate, you are all completely, utterly wrong.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

the correct way to cut a sandwich is the shortest way across the bread period a longer cut your sandwich guts spill out much ado has been made in my comments and emails about the fun of biting off the corner of a triangulated sandwich cut but the fun is short-lived the corners are gone and now you're holding this like awkwardly sandwich shaped trapezoid sandwich half and I just don't see the charm.

So I believe the jury will find me correct, even though no jury so far has.

Thank you.

Why are triangles better than rectangles for sandwich cuts?

Well, the first one is a visual thing.

So a triangle is the shape that's going to give you the most view of the inside of a sandwich.

So when you have a square sandwich, a square piece of bread, cutting it from corner to corner is the longest line you can cut, which means that when you open it up and look inside, you're going to get the best view of the bite that is to come, the best view of the filling, which is, you know, the point of a sandwich.

Moreover, when you're actually eating a triangle, there's a point of entry, a natural point of entry on a triangle.

When you have a square cut, you end up with four 90-degree angles at the corners.

These are awkward to place into your mouth.

You got to open up your mouth wide.

You've got to push your cheeks out to the sides to get the sandwich into your mouth.

Whereas a triangle with its 45-degree corners,

they go into your mouth much more easily.

You can get a much bigger bite.

You don't have to open your

mouth up as wide.

You don't have to choose where you're going to bite into that sandwich.

You don't end up with peanut butter and jelly all over your cheeks.

It's just a better shape in every way,

shape, and form.

That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you to Reddit user Banjo Solo for naming the case in this episode.

Make sure to follow us on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman.

We're on YouTube and TikTok at JudgeJohnHodgman Pod.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast was created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne.

This episode recorded by our friend Matthew Barnhart.

A.J.

McKeon is our podcast editor.

Daniel Speer is our video editor.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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