Van Freaks Roadshow in St. Paul

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne, and I'm joined by the great Judge John Hodgman.

This week's episode was recorded live at one of our favorite locations, the Fitzgerald Theater in St.

Paul, Minnesota.

We were so happy to be there.

We had some great luggage on this show.

We talked about spiders, scattergories, cats, and a game that seems to only exist in Minnesota.

That's right.

I was just thinking about this: a playground game that you are very familiar with has a strange variation.

And did we play it on stage?

Stay tuned to find out.

Plus, special guest Kevin Murphy from Riff Tracks and Mystery Science Theater 3000, who played a nose flute.

Let's go to the stage at the Fitzgerald Theater in St.

Paul, Minnesota.

St.

Paul, Minnesota, you came to us seeking justice, and we're here to deliver it right here at the world-famous Fitzgerald Theater.

The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session.

Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please welcome to the stage Ben and Emily.

Tonight's case, the long arm and arm and arm and arm and arm and arm and arm and arm.

of the law.

Ben brings the case against his wife, Emily.

When Emily sees a spider in the house, she works hard to trap and release it.

Ben says, This is a waste of time.

Get to smushing.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Hey, Charlie, I think about you every time I pass the filling station.

On account of all the grease

you used to wear in your hair,

Still have that record.

Little Anthony in the Imperials.

Someone stole my record player.

Well, how do you like that?

Hey, Charlie, I almost went crazy

after Mario got busted.

I went back to Omaha to live with my folks.

But everyone I used to know is either dead or in prison.

So I came back to Minneapolis.

This time I think I'm going to stay.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them now.

I swear to God, you've done that voice on every single one of these.

That's right, because it annoys you so much.

Ben and Emily, please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever.

I do.

Where's your right hand, man?

Okay.

I do.

Yeah, I didn't care if we actually did it.

Do we actually do this?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes, we do it.

Okay, yes.

We're here.

These people paid good money to see you suffer.

We're here.

You understand, Ben?

I do.

This is a live theater.

I do.

I do.

I'm not a hologram.

I'm not ABBA in London.

This is real.

Feel me, Ben.

This is what it feels like.

This is the magic of live theater.

Now, take that hand and get it up.

Seriously, though, don't stand stand up, though.

That's too much.

Yeah, no, no, don't do that.

That's over the top.

You're Rococo.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has but six legs?

I do.

I do, also.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Ben and Emily, you may be seated.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered?

This fake courtroom here in St.

Paul, Minnesota.

Emily, let's start with you.

You have a guess?

Arachnophobia the musical.

Arachnophobia, the musical, which doesn't exist,

but probably.

Playing in Branson right now.

Yeah, that's probably right.

Starring Yakov Schminov.

Yakov Shmirnov.

So Arachnophobia, the musical.

Arachnophobia is about the movie about scary spiders.

Indeed, it is.

I think that's why we're here today.

That's why we're here today.

So that's a good guess.

I'm going to put it into the guest book.

I'm writing it down now.

Now, Ben, what is your guess?

The Replacement's Little Known Blues album.

The Replacements

Little Known Blues album,

which is called, Ben, what?

What's it called?

The Little Nose Blue Knows Album.

I don't know.

It's so little known that I.

It's so little known.

A real deep cut.

All guesses are wrong.

As Jesse well knows, because I've been torturing him this entire tour, that was my rather poor imitation of Tom Waits.

I mean, it's not much worse than Tom Waits.

Wow.

Again, the heel turn was right up top.

Yeah, that's true.

We always knew.

We always knew.

Sometimes Minnesotan Tom Waits, this song is called A Christmas Card from an Old Friend in Minneapolis.

You're both wrong, so we have to hear this case.

Who seeks justice in my fake court?

I do.

It is you.

Okay, Ben, what is the nature of your complaint?

So Emily has a terrible fear of spiders.

And so

disposing of spiders is typically my job.

But when I am not home, that then falls to her.

And about a month ago,

I was out at dinner with my cousin and

a rather large spider appeared.

And Emily went through quite a bit of trials deciding what to do with this.

She first tried to

not really capture and release it in like a plastic container, but to capture it and then do with it.

I don't wish to save any spiders.

I know it's not my turn to speak, but

saving them is not on the table.

So, to capture, to somehow dispose of the spider via plastic container, which did not go well.

Ultimately, after many dramatic occurrences, she did kill it with a shoe.

And when we were talking about it afterward, I was like, well, probably next time, just go straight to the shoe.

Just go for the shoe.

But

she took exception to this and continues to contend that a jar or plastic container is the correct means of disposing of a spider, which is, I cannot even imagine how it would go well.

By the way, I love your Minnesota accent.

Thank you.

Yes.

Where are you from in actuality?

I'm from Louisiana originally.

Yeah.

Welcome.

Interesting how quickly you picked it up though.

Oh, yeah.

So, Emily, why not just go to the shoe?

I mean,

I presumed that this is all about how you're trying to to save the spider and release it to the wild.

You want it to die.

I want it to die.

I want it to die.

So why not just more than I want it to die?

I want to be, I want to know where its location is.

So first I did not see the shoe.

You could put an air tag on it.

That would require accessing the spider more times than I'm interested in doing.

I saw the spider.

First thing to do was take a picture of the spider to prove to Ben how big it was

that I was going to kill this spider.

I was set on killing it, but I did need to spend a lot of time psyching myself up to take action.

Yeah, there was a lot of pep talking, a lot of we had whatever verbal self-soothing needed to occur.

Yeah.

And then I thought, a jar, because it was on a vertical surface,

which didn't, it seemed like it could get away.

How long ago was this?

About a month.

About a month ago.

Long enough that I'm still dreaming about it.

I'm still traumatized.

Yes, yes.

And you took a photo of the spider

to prove how big it was.

I did.

And we also have video of you attempting to capture the spider.

There is video evidence.

And my question to you is,

who took this video and did you consent to it?

I unfortunately took my own video because we have a video, a camera in our kitchen

that started because we would like watch our cats before we were, you know, when we were out of town.

Right.

But then we had a dog and we used it to watch the dog when we were away.

We had a monitoring camera that was designed to perfect your actual security camera because we have a three-year-old, so the animals have lowered themselves further down the rungs.

So we don't watch them anymore.

We don't care about them anymore.

And we only care about security.

And the security camera captured this, and I sent it to Ben only to be met with feedback about my approach.

Before we get Ben's feedback, we do have the footage.

You do have the footage.

Now,

so

I want to clarify about this.

So this is literally you at home alone.

Son's asleep.

Child is asleep.

Child sleeping in his crib or what have you.

The pets are somewhere.

Who gives a shit about them at this point?

So

you're at home.

The kid's asleep.

The pets are around somewhere.

Husband's not there.

Did you spot the spider spider somewhere on a wall?

I couldn't miss it.

How big was the spider, would you say?

Approximately tarantula size.

Approximately

tarantula size.

I think there were hairs on the legs.

Well, that is a telltale sign of a tarantula.

It wasn't small.

I wouldn't take a picture of a small spider.

Right.

Show with your hands the size of the spider, if you will.

That's not an itsy-bitsy spider.

Let the record show that's about the size of a John F.

K.

I'll make it larger for effect.

No, no, genuinely.

Sure, right.

Yeah.

Okay, you saw it there.

And then was the camera already recording, or did you decide to record it for posterity at that point?

It was already recording.

I didn't consider this as part of it.

She just went back and got the footage later, yeah.

We're going to show the footage.

Now,

I know that there's more to the story because you sent quite a long clip.

It took a long time to work up the courage, which is just my strategy.

And the full video will be available on the Judge John Hodgkin showpage.

Maybe you actually were going to charge admission for it.

But make sure that you schedule bathroom breaks for the full thing.

John, I just bought the rights to call it arachnophobia, too.

Oh, wow.

So we did do a little bit of editing, but this, I think, will give people an idea.

Are we ready to show the video here

at the Fitzgerald Theater in St.

Paul?

So that, I mean, there's nothing there for scale other than a door.

It looks quite big.

That's a good idea.

I would like to note that it's in a crevice, which is, again,

a jar.

I just can't imagine.

But a shoe, I mean, a shoe couldn't perfectly do that.

It's a curved surface, it's vertical.

It's like that old joke.

Take a minute.

I guess it would be: when is a shoe in a crevice when it's a jar?

I don't know.

I sort of got out over my surface.

Right, round of applause, Payload Jesse Thorne.

So your point is in this image,

where the spider is positioned,

neither a jar nor a shoe could have done it.

The only thing that could have gotten the spider was what happened next.

Let's take a look.

Let's go to the tape, Jesse Thorne.

Very impressive footage.

Emily, I'm sorry that you were in such obvious distress at that time.

Perhaps, but at the end I was just proud.

That's why I sent it to him.

Look what I did.

You got it in the jar.

I did not get it in the jar.

The jar.

I did see a jar in your hand.

At one point, I thought better than standing still would be to do something.

Often true.

And I thought, unless there's a T-Rex.

The only thing worse than this spider being here is the spider being

loose after

a missed attempt.

Right.

I mean, I'm not athletic.

The spider was probably fast.

And

I couldn't know that it was around me.

So I thought, just make it be still in this jar that I brought for you.

Oh.

This is the jar itself?

This is the jar.

It's a little piece of it.

It's going to let you down if you think it's a jar.

It's a plastic container that's used for

storing a single grape.

I wasn't going to store the spider.

I thought I could, you know,

ha ha, and scoop it.

Right.

Scoop it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You thought you could put the container over the spider and then slip something in, and then you would have it contained.

Yes, and in the full video, you'll see that I do very calmly do this, and the spider didn't move.

So it half worked.

It half worked.

I'm just going to repeat: we are not able to play the full video because this is only a 90-minute show.

Case in point, it took me a lot of courage just to

move my arm.

And it half worked, and then you lost control of the spider.

I fully lost control.

And the resolution was you ended up smushing it anyway.

I smushed it.

Okay.

What is this evidence seeking to prove exactly?

That at least the jar spurred me into

some kind of action to kill the spider.

You see the jar as an inspirational figure?

In fact, I believe I do.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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Let me ask you a question.

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It's true.

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But made in isn't just for professional chefs.

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It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands.

We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

I have a little carbon steel skillet.

that my mother-in-law loves to use because cast iron is too heavy for her, but she wants that non-stick.

And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

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It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Ben, what do you make of this footage?

Obviously, Emily is very distressed.

Yeah, so, you know, I think she sent it to me as a, I think, both a, like, this is funny, and that she was proud of herself that she had actually like killed, like, achieved killing the spider.

But it honestly, like, was very hard for me to watch.

Like, it was, like, painful to see her in that much distress.

And then also, like, we have this probably somewhat pathologic desire to like split all things equitably, like that we kind of split up our household work and even our finances and everything.

But this is like one piece of the thing that this is like my thing because she has this terrible fear,

right?

And I had failed by not being there in some way.

And so, so when we were talking about it later, you're in the house 24 hours a day on spider work.

True, I mean, I aspire to be, but I'm, you know,

I do step out sometimes.

So, you know, when we were talking about it afterward, I really like, I mean, I don't, i know it sounds really like you know like mansplainy to say like next time you should do it better but it was truly like as a trying to like to say it does sound a little bit like it was trying to do yeah yeah it was trying to it was definitely doing that but mostly just because i know i don't want instead of offering actual advice you say why don't you just do it better right

I mean, but truly, like, I would like to know that the next time this happens and I'm not available to come dispose of the spider, that we won't have a repeat of the same situation.

And then, when she says, Oh, no, I'm going to use the jar again, that then makes me like realize I don't want her to go through that again.

Whereas, if she'd just come at it with the shoe, I'm pretty sure that the spider would have been gone.

Emily, are you saying that if a spider comes into your house again, you want to go through this exact same process again?

I don't know that I can avoid it.

I'm I'm

scared enough.

I would like to be the person who says, I see a spider.

Where is a shoe?

I'm going to kill you.

Now it will happen.

But

the famous stock character from Commedia de Laurte.

Do you not consider a shoe to be inspirational?

The shoe was outside of my direct line of sight.

The shoe was a like, oh, the spider is behind.

Now the spider has, my worst fear really is true, that the spider has escaped and I don't know where it is.

Look around to see anything I could do.

I really thought,

this is my moment.

Ben is gone.

There is a large spider.

I will prove to him with this photo that I have killed this thing and I will grab a Kleenex and I can smush it.

Yeah.

But I couldn't

do it.

Couldn't do it.

I couldn't do it.

Well, Kleenex is different from a shoe.

If you were to kill the spider, let me just say, I'm not, I don't understand why you're killing spiders anyway.

I thought that this whole plan was you were going to get it into what we're calling a jar, even though it's a piece of plastic, and you were going to then put it outside, because spiders are helpful creatures.

Sorry.

No, I mean,

do you like flies?

Do you like mosquitoes?

It's funny.

Do you like silverfish?

We have a...

bit of a fly problem.

So

I do recognize the irony.

We could have maybe used this spider.

Spiders are your friends.

Some spiders even eat other spiders.

Did you know

the brown recluse spider is very dangerous, venomous, you know?

Yes, I was sure this was one.

And you know what?

But do you know what eats the brown recluse spider?

A black recluse.

Don't you see that that spider was black and large and looked like a brown recluse?

It might have been, but I'm saying that if you had a spitting spider in your house, it would eat the brown recluse.

Wouldn't that be fun to have a spitting spider in your house, Emily?

God, no.

Emily, are you suggesting the existence of a rainbow of recluse spiders?

I mean, they had to name it brown for some reason, otherwise it would just be the recluse.

Like different kinds of kryptonite?

That's a very good point.

I will say we do also know someone who was bitten tragically.

I mean, she's alive, but

by a brown recluse.

Her energy went to a very weird place for a moment.

I had you for a second.

Thank you for that.

She was bitten.

A friend of ours bitten by a brown recluse and did.

I bet it was not fun.

She almost died.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I'm sure that any spider that size or general shade of rainbow is not good for me.

This is in Minnesota.

She's in Tennessee.

We don't have that recluse.

But I did grow up in a house with brown recluses, so I'm, you know, wired in terms of.

Strange parenting moves.

I don't know if you've explored this in therapy yet, but you might.

There might be a connection between the fact that

your parents raised you with siblings that were brown recluse spiders and the fact that you don't love spiders now.

Huh, interesting.

I don't know.

Emily, do you have any other?

Tell me about bicycles.

How do you feel about bicycles?

Well, it's another thing I'm was previously afraid of.

I'm an adult bike learner.

It is indeed not true that you

never forget how to ride a bike.

Well,

if you've never learned.

But I did.

I did learn.

You learned.

I grew up riding a bike.

And then you forgot?

And then I just didn't for about 20 years.

Hold up.

What else is a lie?

Spiders are good for the world.

They are good for the world.

That's another lie.

Not all of them, but neither are all humans.

In fact, most aren't.

Yeah.

In fact, let's go, Graham recluses.

Do your job.

Well, I relearned how to ride a bike.

I spent a long time not knowing.

I'm very afraid of falling.

I'm I'm not a generally anxious person.

I don't think this evening is doing a great job of proving it.

I just the basics, like spiders.

Four hours of footage of you just being calm in your kitchen?

Yes.

I will.

Spiders, snakes, falling off a mountain or falling off a bike.

I'm not into those things.

And so

I didn't ride a bike.

Interesting Tinder profile.

I hope I won't need one after tonight.

Well, what does this come down to, in fact?

Well, Ben, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

I mean, just that she not tried the jar again.

Like,

I truly don't want to, like, I don't want to see something like, we don't have cameras in every room in the house, so probably I wouldn't have to see it.

But

I would like to not have to watch her go through that distress again.

And also, just to admit that, like, she says, but maybe I would miss with the shoe.

And my counter is, well, you did miss with the jar.

So

what would you say?

You mentioned yourself that where the spider was positioned in the photograph,

a shoe would not do.

I mean, I think it actually might have.

I think enough of the spider was up, but I would have just, you know, like gone with the paper towel or something and tried to smush it.

Yeah, but you can't go with a paper towel because then you're just going to feel it go in your fan.

You know what I'm talking about, Emily?

You're just going to hear it go.

And then it might just get out like one little tooth.

One little tooth at the last minute.

I don't think they have teeth.

I don't think they have.

Yeah, yeah, they have teeth in a lot.

I now know how many eyes they have because our son has requested to be a spider for Halloween.

But there are no teeth.

The sins of the parent are visited on the other parent.

He specifically says he wants to be a cute spider, not a scary spider, so they won't scare mom.

So that's

very adorable.

But still a spider.

There's no such thing as a cute spider.

I don't understand, Emily.

If I'm to rule in your favor, what, to go with

the jar approach again?

to do whatever I need to do

it might be a jar I mean I it didn't work I I know that right but to take the time to psych myself up to really

make a plan right and to do what I need to do the spider got killed And I was not distressed.

Okay, yeah,

in the moment I was, but afterwards,

there's very little lasting trauma.

Only pride.

Only pride.

Do you think that you're going to get better at killing spiders over time?

I've gotten better in the last month since submitting this case because I feel like they've been following me.

And

I've probably smushed Jarlis

at least five other spiders in our house.

Wow.

Not that size.

Not that size.

Small, regular spiders.

And

have you worked your

average killing time down to five to ten minutes or so?

It's gotten down.

I will say on one occasion, I did call Ben to kill the spider, and the spider got away.

Right.

It did get away.

So even smushing isn't perfect.

Ben, why aren't you there to kill the spiders?

I try.

So you don't want us to interfere with your method.

How do you feel when Ben tells you you're doing it wrong?

I feel emboldened to

stick by the jar.

And what did you say about the spiders are now following you?

I feel like I skipped over that part.

I mean, it's an old house in the fall.

Is it coincidence?

Right.

They saw you torture that spider to death and now it's vengeance.

It might be its baby.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go down into my creepy cellar.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Ben, how are you feeling about your chances?

I mean, not great.

Why is that?

I mean, I knew I didn't have much standing, but

I would like to stress that, like, it's truly out of

just a desire not to watch her be distressed.

Because to me, she seemed very distressed in the video.

And yeah, Emily, have you thought about putting together like a family emergency plan?

Have I thought about it?

There's a plan.

How are you feeling about your chances?

I feel pretty good.

I feel like, you know, what am I?

A human being in my own right?

Wow.

Well,

we'll see whether Judge Hoshman disagrees.

Please rise as Judge John Hoshman exits the corner he's been backed into.

and presents his verdict.

Ben, thank you for bringing your wife to the stage

and consenting for her to appear in public.

While normally I don't approve of such a thing,

I'm glad you ordered her to be here so that we can all learn a lesson.

No, of course, Emily is not merely your wife and partner.

She is a whole human being in her own right.

And she hates spiders and genuinely.

And I appreciate that not only are you afraid of spiders, which is a pretty common fear and not an unreasonable one, as we know.

I have my own wife who is a whole human being in her own right, was bitten not by a brown recluse, but has a big scar from a spider bite.

They can do some real damage.

One should be wary about them, even though they are.

generally friends to all creatures except the ones they eat

which are also the ones i hate so i I like spiders the enemy of my enemy is my friend Spidey I also appreciate the fact Emily that you are confronting your fears

you learned to ride a bike even though you are a strange almost Barnum style freak who forgot how to ride a bike

you

you should charge tickets you should go on speaking tours

It's amazing to me.

But I appreciate that

you did ask Ben to come home, but what you want to preserve is your own method of taking care of the spider.

And I want to preserve that as well, because after all, you know, I know that it causes you distress to see Emily going through this long, long process in the kitchen.

But you have to understand, like, she doesn't want to go to the shoe first.

She's got the jar.

She's got to figure that out first.

Obviously, part of the process, I'm guessing, is that you want to see that spider in the jar so you can look at it and go, Yeah, I got you.

No.

And then once the jar is closed and it has no air, you can watch it slowly die.

And that's part of the process that you have of overcoming your phobia.

And also part of the process is apparently filming yourself while doing it.

I'm not here to kink shame.

I think that that's a good process.

I think, honestly, Ben, you should not watch these videos, but Emily, you should consider putting them online and making a fortune.

I think this could could be a very popular account.

But mostly, I think Emily just wants to be seen and heard and understood as the individual that she is who is not ready to just go to the shoe.

Now, shoe is a terrible way to.

First of all, don't kill spiders.

Don't kill spiders.

They're easy to deal with.

They're big, lumbering dummies.

They don't want to hurt you.

They're afraid of you.

I actually support the jar technique, not so that you can turn it into a killing jar, but over time, your fear, you might be able to put enough of your fear behind you that you can actually take that jar and bring it outside rather than smack a shoe against the wall and get spider guts all over your wall when that thing really truly means no harm and actually does a lot of good around the house, unless it's a brand recluse.

You should identify what the spider is and then make a decision.

Maybe you can get a kind of spray if it's a terrible poisonous spider.

Do you know what I mean?

If you really just want to kill that thing, I think that's reasonable.

If the spider's coming for you,

there's a long distance possibility.

But until then, I encourage you to go on your spider-trapping and killing journey that is your own.

And I hope that eventually, like, I mean, because that's the only way to get over phobias pretty much is immersion therapy, right?

Just do it again and again and again until it becomes a kind of routine for you and a very profitable YouTube channel.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Ben and Emily, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, Me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break and you've got the Solid Sound Festival coming right around the corner.

What more is there to say?

June 29th will be the Solid Sound comedy portion hosted by me and Gene Gray, featuring Sydney Washington, Brittany Carney, Eugene Merman, Dave Hill, Todd Berry, and more.

Come check it out if you're going to be in Western Massachusetts.

It's going to be a wonderful time.

And of course, a little band called Wilco is playing too.

You can go to the Solid Sound, Google it.

You'll find it.

It'll It'll be fun.

Jesse, what's going on with you?

Well, I actually also have a live event for once in my life

on June 13th in Pasadena, California at LA Ist, the former KPCC at the Crawford.

I will be doing a live bullseye interview with our pal, Paul Scheer.

Paul has a brand new book out.

I'm going to talk to him about his book and his

crazy life.

Paul is one of the loveliest and funniest dudes that there is.

I'm really looking forward to talking to him.

Tickets are free.

You can also get fancy tickets that come with Paul's book.

I would encourage you to do that.

You can find that information by just googling Jesse Thorne Paul Scheer or going to laist.com, but it's June 13th.

And again, like you can come to the show for free.

It's going to be a really nice time.

It's also, John, very nearly Father's Day.

And I happen to have a shop that sells things that are perfect for Father's Day.

I happen to, including, I found a length of fabric john that is a printed cotton from the 50s specifically commemorating father's day that i made into pocket squares there's only a few of these left but you can find it at putthisonshop.com among the many many other things we've just added all kinds of new stuff to the store we've been adding and adding and adding um i would recommend that a dad might enjoy uh one of the new watches we've added to the shop.

He might enjoy one of the new bracelets or

I just added a Tiffany tie clip to the shop.

There's also a lot of new ladies' stuff in the store.

We've really gone wild adding stuff and many, many, many pairs of shoes.

If you want a really fine pair of shoes,

there are a lot of them at putthisonshop.com right now.

And I just made a code, weird dad.

Nice.

Use the code weird dad, get 10% off anything in the store.

So use that code if you're a Judge John Hodgman listener at putthisonshop.com.

We have everything from jewelry for men and women to cards and games.

We've got,

as I said, shoes, vintage clothes.

Can I get a little leather baseball glove?

There is a little tiny leather baseball glove.

There's also, I have

a few left of these

homework folders that are made to look like 1989 TOPS baseball cards.

Yeah.

We've got Andre Dawson, of course, you know the Hawk.

We've got Elgato Grande, Andre Scalarraga, the big cat.

Yeah.

We're sold out of Mike Greenwell of the Boston Red Sox.

I know that's your team.

Yeah.

We've got Danny Jackson, left-handed pitcher for the Reds,

another great ball player.

We're sold out of Big Mac, Mark McGuire.

We got Mike Scott, I think, from the Houston Astros, another great ball player.

We've got, look, just go to putthisonshop.com.

Take a look at all these wonderful treasures.

There's everything from, you know, things that cost $8 or $10 to,

look, I just posted, if your initial is R,

I just posted a gargantuan Sterling

Tiffany bowl.

Saw that.

That you're going to lose your mind over.

Yeah, if your dad, if your dad is named Richard or Rolf or Rory

or Roatan, there's this beautiful Tiffany silver bowl right there waiting for you.

Beautiful, beautiful gift.

Yeah, if your dad is Rockwell, the guy who sings a song, Somebody's Watching Me.

Well, it feels that way.

It feels like it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway, put this on shop.com and use the code WeirdDad.

WeirdDad.

There's some real weird dad stuff in here.

Like this 1950s look of the Irish clip on bow tie.

Somebody's dad is going to get that and love it.

You got an

Irish-American dad?

Go get this bow tie.

It's terrific.

But for the, it's also good good for people of all family roles.

There's, we've added a lot of ladies' jewelry lately that I really love.

So go to put thisonshop.com.

We also have some awesome.

This is something I got at a flea market in Arizona that I am so pumped about.

And it's cheap.

Made it cheap.

These newspaper aprons.

Like the aprons that a guy who sells the newspaper on a street corner or on a highway highway median or whatever.

Yeah, I know the guy you mean.

I have one for the Chicago American, two different styles for the Chicago American, one for the Kiwanis Club and one for DuPont Imaging Systems.

I don't know.

And Chicago Today.

The sweet newspaperman apron, it's called.

Go to putthison shop.com.

Use the go to putthisonshop.com.

Just looking at this website will bring you delight.

There's so much fun stuff to look at here and get some.

I love looking looking at it.

Okay, we'll be back in just a second on Judge John Hodgman.

John, we have a lot more justice to dispense, but we also have some good news to dispense.

That's exactly right.

We have a friend of the court here tonight with us.

It says you're a local talent, but that's not true.

He is a global talent.

He is a pan-dimensional talent who is simply manifesting on this plane of St.

Paul, Minnesota briefly.

And we're lucky to share Meet Space with him during this time.

You know him from a little something called Riff Tracks and Mystery Science Theater 3000.

Please welcome Kevin Murphy.

Thank you for performing the ceremonial kick.

You know, I haven't seen you, Kevin, since we were in this very theater together probably about four years ago.

That's right.

And what is it like to live in this theater?

I should go home every now and again, but you know, it just gets into your blood.

I know, absolutely.

You have your little hidey hole up there and you peer down all the performances and you sing sad songs.

It's wonderful.

I've urinated in every corner of this theater.

Kevin, I saw you not all that long ago at San Francisco Sketch Fest, but since I last saw you, you have become a novelist.

Like one of five novelists.

There's five of us from Rift Track.

I think there are in the world.

There are more.

My Rift Tracks, Conference, and I

wrote a book, Connor Lestrucca and Sean Thomason, and Bill Corbett and Michael J.

Nelson.

And it's called

The Naked Clone: A Nick Nulty Mystery.

Now, when you say mystery novel, it's a mystery novel.

And the detective is Nick Nulty.

Nick Nulty.

I just assumed that the mystery was Nick Nolte because I've always just been like, Nick Nolte.

Well,

we have a lot of fun with Nick Nolte at Rift Tracks.

I think he's mentioned in just about every title that we've done and in all our live shows.

And Mike Nelson does a great impression, a throat-severing impression of Nick Nolte.

And we thought of it.

A Nick Nolte impression is kind of like Tom Waits meets a Vitamix.

It's even worse than that, Compadre.

And I can't do it because I just, my throat, I just don't have the throat.

I had a beautiful throat.

But

so we decided we had always wanted to do this exercise that we'd done in the past where someone takes the first chapter and then we hand the book off to someone else.

Right.

Takes the next chapter and we get to do no editing, no revising.

We don't know what, you know, we know what happened before, but we don't know what happens next.

This is what's called an exquisite corpse, which is also Nick Nulty's wife's nickname for it.

That's right.

One hell of a corpse, Pacco is for sure.

And it's fun to imitate him and it's fun to make, well, I mean, now,

you look at the guy, I mean,

maybe we pick on him a little unfairly.

You know, one bad mug shot and one video of you in your pajamas diving through a dumpster.

Suddenly you've got a reputation.

It's not fair.

You wake up one time under the bench in an airport concourse and then people start to think things about you.

So we've embellished his character,

you know, to extremes.

The plot, as thin as it is, involves

actors in Hollywood being kidnapped and clones of them being put out of the world to take their places.

Ah, that sounds good.

Yeah.

Sinister.

You said that you wrote every fifth chapter?

Every fifth chapter, yes.

Sounds like cheating.

I love it.

Next time count me in.

That's great.

Writing a whole book is hard.

It is, yeah.

The Naked Clone, a Nick Nulty Mystery, is available where, Kevin?

It's available at rifftrex.com or at Amazon, either as an e-book or in print.

Now, you're not just an author and a singer with a beautiful throat.

Thank you.

And obviously a comedic genius.

We have no choice but to stand this gorgeous throat.

Yeah.

We have no choice.

We have no choice.

It's obligatory.

That's right.

You are also a very accomplished nose flautist.

You play the nose flute.

I do.

Please don't take it out.

I won't.

Don't take it out and don't play it.

I don't care.

I just wanted to mention it and we're not going to talk about it again.

No, okay.

Because we've got a segment coming up called Swift Justice.

This is where we hear as many cases as possible.

And how much time, Jesse Thorne?

15 minutes, baby.

15 minutes.

And to make it even more challenging and fun, frankly, Kevin, would you stick around and release your expertise?

I really wanted to play the nose flute, but I'll stick around.

No, no, thank you.

No nose flute.

I appreciate that.

All right.

Why don't we get going on our actual segment, Kevin?

I don't know why you keep bringing up the nose flute.

It's a little

too much.

We already plugged your book.

Just take it easy with me.

All right, all right, all right.

Let's put 15 minutes on the clock and welcome to the stage Karsten and Abel.

Karsten is a former community college teacher who currently writes and hosts bar trivia.

He is here with his son Abel, who's a physics student at Bethel University.

All right.

Welcome to the court of Judge John Hodgman.

Karsten,

this case regards a game of scategories.

Is that correct?

Yes, it is.

Very good.

Abel, you played this game of scategories with your dad.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

Can you explain for those who may not know, or for me who hates categories,

how it's played again?

Yeah, so it's a fun word game where each round you roll a 20-sided.

Let's say it's a word game.

We don't need to buy.

Thank you.

It's a word game.

Wow.

You're really running into a boggle buzzsaw over here.

Well, I don't care for boggle either, but let's go ahead.

It's a word game.

It's a word game.

Okay, we got that covered.

You roll a 20-sided die each round,

which gives you a letter, and there's a card with prompts on it, and you have to come up with something that fulfills the prompt that starts with the letter that you rolled.

So, in the case of the game at hand and the dispute at hand, a letter and a category came up.

What was that, please?

The letter was B and the category was foods that are round.

Foods that are round that start with the letter B.

And Carsten, what did you offer as a reply?

Banana.

Banana.

Banana.

Foods that are round starting with the letter B.

Banana.

How many points did you award your father for this incredible reply?

Zero.

Zero points, I see.

Carsten, how is a banana round?

Well, I mean, going back to when this kid was 20 pounds in a high chair, I was slicing up the bananas.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Every one of them was round, and that's how he knew them first.

Hey, hey, we don't have time for all this.

This isn't Lake Wobegun.

Going back to his birth.

I apologize, Carson.

You were saying, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to.

Oh, do you tell a kid, you want bananas on your cereal?

Every one of them won't be around.

Oh, so your

slices of bananas

are around.

But slices of banana starts with an S, doesn't it?

He was two.

He was learning the word banana.

When did you play this game of no, no, no, no,

when he had the medallions of banana?

Abel's a genius.

I've seen him.

This dude was having backstreet categories games in the streets of St.

Paul when he was two years old, taking his dad down.

When was the game, actually, though?

About five years ago.

About five years ago.

So I was more than two.

You were more than two, I was more than two.

And what do you remember of the night?

Was this a hotly disputed answer?

Yeah, yeah, I was.

Yeah, yeah, we were just playing.

My two older siblings, it was just us four.

Right.

Okay.

And

you awarded your dad zero points, but now you're suing to get the points back.

As I remember it, I conceded the point to keep the peace so we didn't lose this game altogether.

Right.

The way that my family of origin has.

To keep the peace or retain the grudge?

This is a long and bitter memory for you both, isn't it?

Yes.

Kevin Murphy, what do you think?

Well, in a purely Euclidean sense, I kind of side with dad here because you slice it on a plane.

There is roundness, the quality of roundness in a banana.

Maybe not prima fascia, but somewhere in there, roundness is dying to get out.

Thinking outside the peel, if you will.

Yes, thinking outside the peel.

You were right not to laugh.

Yes.

I knew it was wrong when I said it, and I apologize.

So you support the dad then, Kevin Murphy.

Yes.

I see.

And Carson, does this still come up in conversation?

How do you keep this grudge alive?

Oh, well, it gets used both ways.

If I say something that the kids think is ridiculous, oh, and bananas around.

If they say something that I think is creative thinking, I say, ah, and bananas around.

The double-edged banana, if you will.

Sure, sure.

Why did you laugh at that?

That was terrible.

What's wrong with you?

It's wrong with you.

Abel, what would you have me roll if I were to rule in your favor?

So my dad's trying to win points that are not justly awarded to him.

So I think it would be fair that I get to veto one of his points in any future game of my choosing.

Well, who won the game back five years ago?

Oh, no one remembers.

It's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant.

Surely the winner would remember.

Well, we don't.

It's not something you remember.

It's like riding a bike.

There were so many games, but only one banana dispute.

You got to replay the game.

That's all you have to do.

Replay the game.

I'm not giving you a point for that.

That was very creative thinking.

But this is categories, goddammit.

Round Round banana will not stand.

I'm sorry, Kevin Murphy, but everyone, when you picture a banana, no, they say.

Yes, I say.

Picture a banana in your head.

It is a crescent shape.

It is not round.

I'm sorry, Carson.

It does not stand.

You must replay the game until there is an established winner.

Carson, I wish you the best of luck.

I'm gutted.

Thank you, Carson and Abel.

Let's welcome to the stage Christina and Nate.

Christina is an orthopedic surgeon who likes to swim competitively.

Nate is a pathologist.

They have two kids and a cat named Suki.

Two kids and a cat named Suki.

Who seeks justice in this fake courtroom?

I do, your honor.

Christina, what is the nature of your complaint?

Our cat, Suki, is an indoor cat, never goes outside, and she likes to spend time looking out through the screen door.

But there's an orange cat in the neighborhood who comes by and taunts her.

Taunts her.

Taunts her.

And you say that Nate has a feud with this cat?

He has a feud with the cat, but the feud is that he has figured out where the cat lives and wants to go ask the owners to keep the cat indoors.

Wow.

You want to tell the owners how to run their own cat business?

Okay.

I mean, I'm not crazy.

Like, I don't think this is.

That's how the best defenses start.

Okay, wait.

Wait, okay, I'm not crazy.

Yeah.

I mean, I think the chances of success here are

pretty low.

Okay.

My client is not crazy.

What is the nature of this orange cat?

Chaos?

Pure chaos?

Evil?

Describe this cat.

I just have to say we went on a walk earlier today, and it was hysterical because the orange cat came wandering by and ran up to Nate and rubbed on his leg.

Yes.

As if they were friends.

That's right.

It was playing.

And I have video evidence, too.

It was uncanny.

You have video evidence of the cat playing mind games with Nate?

I do.

Yeah.

Because it knew he was taking it to court.

He was trying to.

She did.

Yeah.

Trying to influence the jury.

This was judgment day.

Yeah, absolutely.

We don't have that video evidence, but we do have some photographic evidence of the cats in question.

May I see that, please?

That is Suki

sitting in a box with a pair of dangerously placed open scissors.

You say you care about this cat?

That cat's going to get a cut paw.

Mail me away from the orange cat, Daddy.

That's a very cute indoor cat.

Now let's take a look at the orange cat.

Oh, look at that asshole.

Skulking away.

What might have the orange cat been doing just before this photo was taken?

God only knows.

You say you know the owners of this orange cat.

You have identified who they are.

Yes.

You do not know the orange cat's name because it doesn't matter.

It is a beast to you that should be stopped.

Exactly.

John, I believe its name is Nick.

Nolte.

I'll allow it for the purpose of this case.

Nick Nolte the cat.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You say it taunts Suki.

I hear that you taunt it with a garden hose.

Yes.

I mean, wait, wait.

I'm not crazy.

My life hasn't been so deranged that I'm spraying a cat with a garden hose

because I fear it.

Did you spray the cat with a garden hose?

Yes.

I see.

Thank you for your honesty.

How do you know that Suki is being tormented by this cat?

Nick Nulty will come in the backyard

and just kind of be wandering around.

Suki will be...

How dare it.

Well, right.

I mean, it's my property.

And Suki will be sitting by the back door and will start making all these weird noises and start jumping up on the screens.

And like, yeah.

I mean, she's honked off.

She's freaked out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Would you say, Christina, that Nick Nulty bothers Suki or bothers Nate more?

I would say that at this point, Nate definitely gets more incensed when the orange cat comes around than Suki does.

I mean, Suki is interested, but she's keeping it together.

And Nate is like tearing out of the house like a bat out of hell.

You want to go over to the neighbors and tell them to keep their damn cat home?

I'd like to try.

How would you phrase it?

You know, I'd maybe bring a- First of all, I'm not crazy.

Right.

No, I'd maybe bring a plate of cookies and say, listen, I'm sorry we haven't had a chance chance to meet before.

Uh-huh.

Here's some cookies.

Keep your damn cat inside.

No, I mean, you know, I'd be a nice guy about it.

I'm not a monster.

We should have just ahead of time gotten a list of the different stuff you're not.

Kevin Murphy, I don't have a lot of experience with neighborly relations in the Twin Cities.

or the Midwest.

How do you think that that would go over at a house?

Depending on the neighborhood.

You have a pet as well, do you not?

Yeah, a dog.

I'm not a cat person.

I'd rather have a pet spider.

I believe we have some evidence of that dog.

Can we see that, please?

Her name is Vita.

There she is.

Yeah.

What cat can compare?

I'm asking you.

So let's try this out.

Nate,

take that microphone out of there.

Just pull it forward.

Now, pretend you have a plate of cookies.

And go tell Kevin Murphy to keep his dog

off your damn property.

Kevin Murphy,

here's some cookies.

Snickerdoodles.

I hear you play a

cookie made from a dog, Nate.

Disgusting.

I mean, if we could get together and hear a no-salute sometime, I'd love that.

This isn't going well.

Jesse, get the hose.

Get the hose, Jesse.

All right, Nate, please return to your area.

You know, I understand that you are protective of your cat, Suki.

Your cat is very cute looking.

It is clearly an indoor cat.

It kind of reminds me of my cat, which is an indoor cat and kind of a dum-dum cat.

But I'm going to suggest that perhaps, perhaps, this other cat, Nick Nulty, we'll call it, is actually bringing a level of stimulation and excitement to Suki's life.

And one of the other things that you need to remember is that cats are inherently anti-capitalist because every cat knows none of this is your property.

Leave Nick Nulty alone.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Thank you, Christina and Nate.

Let's welcome to the stage Kate and Brian.

Kate is from Minnesota, works at the University of Minnesota, and is part of a cookbook club.

She met her husband, Brian, at work through her dad.

At the University of Minnesota, you work with your dad at the University of Minnesota?

He used to work there.

He's retired now, yeah.

And I'm sorry, Brian, what do you do?

You hang around the university?

Well, of course.

Do you have a position there?

Software development.

Oh, okay, excellent.

Who seeks justice here in my fake court?

I do.

Kate, what is the nature of your complaint?

I seek justice for myself and for the citizens of the state of Minnesota because we have been told that we play our childhood game incorrectly just because it is different from the game played by the rest of the country.

Something's happening.

Kevin Murphy.

You're a native Chicagoan, but you've lived here a long time.

Do you sense this?

I think this is the first time people in Minnesota has shown anger in about 35 years it's palpable it's palpable i feel it yes all right please continue kate i apologize our our game is different and it is superior like our lake

and everyone here knows what i'm talking about it is duck duck

holy crap

guys i'll leave if you want me to

okay and

i don't know what you're talking about brian can

Are you from Minnesota originally, Brian?

I am not.

I can't remember.

Okay, can you explain to me you're from Chicago as well?

Yeah.

What is your beloved partner talking about?

Duck Duck Goose.

Right?

Yeah.

So

the game, the childhood game

that you and I

and Kevin...

Did you grow up playing Duck Duck Goose?

Never played it.

No, that's right.

You never played any recess games at all.

Just, you know beat each other with a wiffle bat that was our recess game yeah chicago chicago yeah chicago

uh but jesse you've heard that what the i've heard of the game duck duck goose before what did you know you know back at back at the discovery center school in san francisco it was either duck duck goose or very occasionally hamburger hamburger cheeseburger oh

so tell me about duck duck gray duck please kate and only you it does bear a striking resemblance you do sit in a circle and you tap everyone everyone on the shoulder or the head, and you wait until you get to the last person who becomes it by saying, in our case, gray duck.

And then you run around the circle, you try to catch each other.

Now, there is

a self-limiting factor here because you have to say a different color every time you tap someone, and you cannot repeat.

There's also the great psych out where you say green duck.

Whoa.

And I don't know about everyone here, but I remember distinctly being in kindergarten and being excited when somebody got the big pack of 24 crayons and we learned new colors that we could use in the game at recess.

What were some of the other fake out colors?

I can't think.

Grass duck?

Well, we didn't have green was the only good psych out one, but like I remember sea foam.

That was like foam duck, yeah.

If you spent some time at a Benjamin Moore store, you could really come up with some real

innovations.

Okay, so there's a little bit more stress.

It is a different game then.

Oh, yeah.

And what happens when you finally say gray duck, that person is it.

And what happens then?

Well, then you run around the circle and you try to get back to their spot.

Before they get you.

Before they do.

Before they get you.

Right, okay.

And

what is the bottle of liquid that you're holding?

Oh, yeah.

So we're really proud of this.

Like, I'm wearing a gray duck shirt.

And I'm like, this is a bottle of vodka called Gray Duck.

I thought

something, something alcohol molar.

I was, well, okay, I'll

thank you for condemning me to check a bag at the airport tomorrow.

If gifts work at the Supreme Court, why not here?

Yeah, that's exactly right.

I very objectively have found in Kate's favor.

Not exactly.

That's interesting, because I was going to suggest an adult alternative called Duck Duck Grey Goose,

but obviously the people of Minnesota have gotten there before me.

They're a little bit faster in the game of DuckDuck Gray Duck.

Look, we have almost a circle here.

I think there's only one way to solve this.

Let's play a game.

Is it okay if I tap you?

Consent?

Okay.

Oh, yes,

you may tap my body and I think my colleagues as well.

Orange duck.

Yellow duck.

Green duck.

Gray duck.

You didn't even run around.

He got me.

He tagged you?

He tagged me.

i don't think that you got to go once around okay

get me

watch the ukulele

careful

brian i love you but obviously kate wins it's a different game and i dare say and i'm going to say this is a better game than duck duck goose duck duck right

Thank you, Kate and Brian.

And thank you, Kevin Murphy.

And thank you for having me out here.

How about Kevin Murphy

from Rift Tracks?

The Naked Clone,

a Nick Nulty

mystery.

Thank you, Kevin Murphy.

We will not see you again tonight.

Thank you very much.

That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thanks to Redditor Humphrey the Camel for naming the case in this episode.

Make sure to follow us on Instagram at JudgeJohn Hodgman.

I'm also on Instagram at Jesse Thorne, very famous.

John is on Instagram at John Hodgman.

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And I'm loving the new YouTube content.

Thank you very much, Sheen VT.

If you're listening over on Apple Podcasts, do please give us a review.

Rate us five stars if you feel we've merited it.

If you feel we haven't merited it, maybe keep it to yourself.

But definitely leaving reviews at Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to the show or simply leaving a comment, sharing an Instagram story, or otherwise letting people know about it is very, very helpful to our show.

And we're very, very grateful.

The Jet Sean Hodgman podcast was created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne.

Our producer on tour was Laura Valk.

This episode recorded by Stephen Colon.

Natty Lopez is our social media manager.

AJ McKeon, our podcast editor, Daniel Speer is our video editor.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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