Van Freaks Roadshow in St. Paul

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne, and I'm joined by the great Judge John Hodgman.

Speaker 5 This week's episode was recorded live at one of our favorite locations, the Fitzgerald Theater in St. Paul, Minnesota.
We were so happy to be there.

Speaker 1 We had some great luggage on this show. We talked about spiders, scattergories, cats, and a game that seems to only exist in Minnesota.

Speaker 5 That's right. I was just thinking about this: a playground game that you are very familiar with has a strange variation.
And did we play it on stage? Stay tuned to find out.

Speaker 3 Plus, special guest Kevin Murphy from Riff Tracks and Mystery Science Theater 3000, who played a nose flute.

Speaker 5 Let's go to the stage at the Fitzgerald Theater in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Speaker 1 St. Paul, Minnesota, you came to us seeking justice, and we're here to deliver it right here at the world-famous Fitzgerald Theater.

Speaker 10 The court of Judge John Hodgman is now in session. Let's bring out our first set of litigants.
Please welcome to the stage Ben and Emily.

Speaker 12 Tonight's case, the long arm and arm and arm and arm and arm and arm and arm and arm.

Speaker 11 of the law.

Speaker 1 Ben brings the case against his wife, Emily. When Emily sees a spider in the house, she works hard to trap and release it.
Ben says, This is a waste of time. Get to smushing.

Speaker 1 Who's right, who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Speaker 15 Hey, Charlie, I think about you every time I pass the filling station.

Speaker 2 On account of all the grease

Speaker 19 you used to wear in your hair,

Speaker 17 Still have that record.

Speaker 7 Little Anthony in the Imperials.

Speaker 22 Someone stole my record player.

Speaker 19 Well, how do you like that?

Speaker 17 Hey, Charlie, I almost went crazy

Speaker 24 after Mario got busted.

Speaker 22 I went back to Omaha to live with my folks.

Speaker 25 But everyone I used to know is either dead or in prison.

Speaker 27 So I came back to Minneapolis.

Speaker 28 This time I think I'm going to stay.

Speaker 15 Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them now.

Speaker 1 I swear to God, you've done that voice on every single one of these.

Speaker 5 That's right, because it annoys you so much.

Speaker 1 Ben and Emily, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever.

Speaker 30 I do.

Speaker 20 Where's your right hand, man?

Speaker 30 Okay.

Speaker 31 I do.

Speaker 32 Yeah, I didn't care if we actually did it. Do we actually do this?

Speaker 33 Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 30 Yes, we do it.

Speaker 31 Okay, yes. We're here.
These people paid good money to see you suffer.

Speaker 23 We're here.

Speaker 34 You understand, Ben? I do. This is a live theater.

Speaker 34 I do. I do.

Speaker 35 I'm not a hologram. I'm not ABBA in London.

Speaker 22 This is real. Feel me, Ben.

Speaker 36 This is what it feels like.

Speaker 37 This is the magic of live theater.

Speaker 7 Now, take that hand and get it up.

Speaker 1 Seriously, though, don't stand stand up, though.

Speaker 11 That's too much.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, no, don't do that. That's over the top.

Speaker 26 You're Rococo.

Speaker 1 Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he has but six legs?

Speaker 32 I do.

Speaker 36 I do, also.

Speaker 1 Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Speaker 21 Ben and Emily, you may be seated.

Speaker 21 For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered?

Speaker 37 This fake courtroom here in St.

Speaker 24 Paul, Minnesota.

Speaker 37 Emily, let's start with you.

Speaker 39 You have a guess?

Speaker 40 Arachnophobia the musical.

Speaker 24 Arachnophobia, the musical, which doesn't exist,

Speaker 30 but probably.

Speaker 1 Playing in Branson right now.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's probably right. Starring Yakov Schminov.

Speaker 42 Yakov Shmirnov. So Arachnophobia, the musical.

Speaker 8 Arachnophobia is about the movie about scary spiders.

Speaker 41 Indeed, it is. I think that's why we're here today.

Speaker 8 That's why we're here today.

Speaker 37 So that's a good guess.

Speaker 24 I'm going to put it into the guest book.

Speaker 43 I'm writing it down now.

Speaker 11 Now, Ben, what is your guess?

Speaker 32 The Replacement's Little Known Blues album.

Speaker 8 The Replacements

Speaker 38 Little Known Blues album,

Speaker 18 which is called, Ben, what?

Speaker 11 What's it called?

Speaker 43 The Little Nose Blue Knows Album.

Speaker 30 I don't know.

Speaker 32 It's so little known that I.

Speaker 16 It's so little known.

Speaker 44 A real deep cut.

Speaker 8 All guesses are wrong.

Speaker 28 As Jesse well knows, because I've been torturing him this entire tour, that was my rather poor imitation of Tom Waits.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's not much worse than Tom Waits.

Speaker 30 Wow.

Speaker 1 Again, the heel turn was right up top.

Speaker 36 Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 46 We always knew. We always knew.

Speaker 18 Sometimes Minnesotan Tom Waits, this song is called A Christmas Card from an Old Friend in Minneapolis.

Speaker 22 You're both wrong, so we have to hear this case.

Speaker 28 Who seeks justice in my fake court?

Speaker 47 I do. It is you.

Speaker 21 Okay, Ben, what is the nature of your complaint?

Speaker 32 So Emily has a terrible fear of spiders. And so

Speaker 32 disposing of spiders is typically my job. But when I am not home, that then falls to her.
And about a month ago,

Speaker 32 I was out at dinner with my cousin and

Speaker 32 a rather large spider appeared. And Emily went through quite a bit of trials deciding what to do with this.
She first tried to

Speaker 32 not really capture and release it in like a plastic container, but to capture it and then do with it.

Speaker 41 I don't wish to save any spiders. I know it's not my turn to speak, but

Speaker 48 saving them is not on the table.

Speaker 32 So, to capture, to somehow dispose of the spider via plastic container, which did not go well. Ultimately, after many dramatic occurrences, she did kill it with a shoe.

Speaker 32 And when we were talking about it afterward, I was like, well, probably next time, just go straight to the shoe. Just go for the shoe.

Speaker 32 But

Speaker 32 she took exception to this and continues to contend that a jar or plastic container is the correct means of disposing of a spider, which is, I cannot even imagine how it would go well.

Speaker 43 By the way, I love your Minnesota accent.

Speaker 34 Thank you.

Speaker 30 Yes.

Speaker 8 Where are you from in actuality?

Speaker 32 I'm from Louisiana originally. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Welcome.

Speaker 37 Interesting how quickly you picked it up though.

Speaker 30 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 37 So, Emily, why not just go to the shoe?

Speaker 20 I mean,

Speaker 24 I presumed that this is all about how you're trying to to save the spider and release it to the wild.

Speaker 50 You want it to die.

Speaker 41 I want it to die.

Speaker 16 I want it to die.

Speaker 41 So why not just more than I want it to die? I want to be, I want to know where its location is. So first I did not see the shoe.

Speaker 14 You could put an air tag on it.

Speaker 41 That would require accessing the spider more times than I'm interested in doing. I saw the spider.
First thing to do was take a picture of the spider to prove to Ben how big it was

Speaker 41 that I was going to kill this spider. I was set on killing it, but I did need to spend a lot of time psyching myself up to take action.

Speaker 41 Yeah, there was a lot of pep talking, a lot of we had whatever verbal self-soothing needed to occur. Yeah.

Speaker 41 And then I thought, a jar, because it was on a vertical surface,

Speaker 41 which didn't, it seemed like it could get away.

Speaker 7 How long ago was this?

Speaker 26 About a month. About a month ago.

Speaker 41 Long enough that I'm still dreaming about it.

Speaker 22 I'm still traumatized.

Speaker 48 Yes, yes.

Speaker 15 And you took a photo of the spider

Speaker 51 to prove how big it was.

Speaker 25 I did.

Speaker 53 And we also have video of you attempting to capture the spider.

Speaker 41 There is video evidence.

Speaker 15 And my question to you is,

Speaker 43 who took this video and did you consent to it?

Speaker 41 I unfortunately took my own video because we have a video, a camera in our kitchen

Speaker 41 that started because we would like watch our cats before we were, you know, when we were out of town. Right.
But then we had a dog and we used it to watch the dog when we were away.

Speaker 41 We had a monitoring camera that was designed to perfect your actual security camera because we have a three-year-old, so the animals have lowered themselves further down the rungs.

Speaker 41 So we don't watch them anymore.

Speaker 26 We don't care about them anymore.

Speaker 41 And we only care about security.

Speaker 41 And the security camera captured this, and I sent it to Ben only to be met with feedback about my approach.

Speaker 15 Before we get Ben's feedback, we do have the footage.

Speaker 41 You do have the footage.

Speaker 55 Now,

Speaker 10 so

Speaker 1 I want to clarify about this. So this is literally you at home alone.

Speaker 41 Son's asleep.

Speaker 1 Child is asleep. Child sleeping in his crib or what have you.

Speaker 34 The pets are somewhere.

Speaker 30 Who gives a shit about them at this point?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 you're at home. The kid's asleep.
The pets are around somewhere. Husband's not there.
Did you spot the spider spider somewhere on a wall?

Speaker 33 I couldn't miss it.

Speaker 46 How big was the spider, would you say?

Speaker 41 Approximately tarantula size.

Speaker 16 Approximately

Speaker 22 tarantula size.

Speaker 41 I think there were hairs on the legs.

Speaker 36 Well, that is a telltale sign of a tarantula.

Speaker 41 It wasn't small. I wouldn't take a picture of a small spider.
Right.

Speaker 9 Show with your hands the size of the spider, if you will.

Speaker 37 That's not an itsy-bitsy spider. Let the record show that's about the size of a John F.

Speaker 9 K.

Speaker 41 I'll make it larger for effect.

Speaker 30 No, no, genuinely.

Speaker 20 Sure, right. Yeah.

Speaker 16 Okay, you saw it there.

Speaker 37 And then was the camera already recording, or did you decide to record it for posterity at that point?

Speaker 41 It was already recording. I didn't consider this as part of it.

Speaker 34 She just went back and got the footage later, yeah.

Speaker 19 We're going to show the footage.

Speaker 27 Now,

Speaker 43 I know that there's more to the story because you sent quite a long clip.

Speaker 20 It took a long time to work up the courage, which is just my strategy.

Speaker 45 And the full video will be available on the Judge John Hodgkin showpage.

Speaker 9 Maybe you actually were going to charge admission for it.

Speaker 42 But make sure that you schedule bathroom breaks for the full thing.

Speaker 1 John, I just bought the rights to call it arachnophobia, too.

Speaker 30 Oh, wow.

Speaker 24 So we did do a little bit of editing, but this, I think, will give people an idea.

Speaker 16 Are we ready to show the video here

Speaker 16 at the Fitzgerald Theater in St. Paul?

Speaker 8 So that, I mean, there's nothing there for scale other than a door.

Speaker 7 It looks quite big. That's a good idea.

Speaker 32 I would like to note that it's in a crevice, which is, again,

Speaker 32 a jar.

Speaker 20 I just can't imagine.

Speaker 41 But a shoe, I mean, a shoe couldn't perfectly do that. It's a curved surface, it's vertical.

Speaker 1 It's like that old joke.

Speaker 59 Take a minute.

Speaker 1 I guess it would be: when is a shoe in a crevice when it's a jar?

Speaker 31 I don't know.

Speaker 60 I sort of got out over my surface.

Speaker 23 Right, round of applause, Payload Jesse Thorne.

Speaker 15 So your point is in this image,

Speaker 37 where the spider is positioned,

Speaker 62 neither a jar nor a shoe could have done it.

Speaker 59 The only thing that could have gotten the spider was what happened next.

Speaker 42 Let's take a look. Let's go to the tape, Jesse Thorne.

Speaker 19 Very impressive footage.

Speaker 59 Emily, I'm sorry that you were in such obvious distress at that time.

Speaker 41 Perhaps, but at the end I was just proud. That's why I sent it to him.

Speaker 54 Look what I did.

Speaker 59 You got it in the jar.

Speaker 41 I did not get it in the jar. The jar.

Speaker 27 I did see a jar in your hand.

Speaker 41 At one point, I thought better than standing still would be to do something.

Speaker 22 Often true.

Speaker 36 And I thought, unless there's a T-Rex.

Speaker 41 The only thing worse than this spider being here is the spider being

Speaker 41 loose after

Speaker 41 a missed attempt.

Speaker 20 Right.

Speaker 41 I mean, I'm not athletic. The spider was probably fast.

Speaker 20 And

Speaker 41 I couldn't know that it was around me. So I thought, just make it be still in this jar that I brought for you.

Speaker 20 Oh.

Speaker 15 This is the jar itself?

Speaker 2 This is the jar.

Speaker 2 It's a little piece of it.

Speaker 41 It's going to let you down if you think it's a jar. It's a plastic container that's used for

Speaker 26 storing a single grape.

Speaker 41 I wasn't going to store the spider. I thought I could, you know,

Speaker 20 ha ha, and scoop it.

Speaker 27 Right. Scoop it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 18 You thought you could put the container over the spider and then slip something in, and then you would have it contained.

Speaker 41 Yes, and in the full video, you'll see that I do very calmly do this, and the spider didn't move.

Speaker 26 So it half worked.

Speaker 46 It half worked.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to repeat: we are not able to play the full video because this is only a 90-minute show.

Speaker 41 Case in point, it took me a lot of courage just to

Speaker 41 move my arm.

Speaker 15 And it half worked, and then you lost control of the spider.

Speaker 41 I fully lost control.

Speaker 21 And the resolution was you ended up smushing it anyway.

Speaker 41 I smushed it. Okay.

Speaker 14 What is this evidence seeking to prove exactly?

Speaker 41 That at least the jar spurred me into

Speaker 41 some kind of action to kill the spider.

Speaker 1 You see the jar as an inspirational figure?

Speaker 41 In fact, I believe I do.

Speaker 64 Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Speaker 37 Ben, what do you make of this footage?

Speaker 21 Obviously, Emily is very distressed.

Speaker 32 Yeah, so, you know, I think she sent it to me as a, I think, both a, like, this is funny, and that she was proud of herself that she had actually like killed, like, achieved killing the spider.

Speaker 32 But it honestly, like, was very hard for me to watch. Like, it was, like, painful to see her in that much distress.

Speaker 32 And then also, like, we have this probably somewhat pathologic desire to like split all things equitably, like that we kind of split up our household work and even our finances and everything.

Speaker 32 But this is like one piece of the thing that this is like my thing because she has this terrible fear,

Speaker 26 right?

Speaker 32 And I had failed by not being there in some way. And so, so when we were talking about it later, you're in the house 24 hours a day on spider work.
True, I mean, I aspire to be, but I'm, you know,

Speaker 32 I do step out sometimes.

Speaker 32 So, you know, when we were talking about it afterward, I really like, I mean, I don't, i know it sounds really like you know like mansplainy to say like next time you should do it better but it was truly like as a trying to like to say it does sound a little bit like it was trying to do yeah yeah it was trying to it was definitely doing that but mostly just because i know i don't want instead of offering actual advice you say why don't you just do it better right

Speaker 32 I mean, but truly, like, I would like to know that the next time this happens and I'm not available to come dispose of the spider, that we won't have a repeat of the same situation.

Speaker 32 And then, when she says, Oh, no, I'm going to use the jar again, that then makes me like realize I don't want her to go through that again.

Speaker 32 Whereas, if she'd just come at it with the shoe, I'm pretty sure that the spider would have been gone.

Speaker 9 Emily, are you saying that if a spider comes into your house again, you want to go through this exact same process again?

Speaker 41 I don't know that I can avoid it. I'm I'm

Speaker 41 scared enough. I would like to be the person who says, I see a spider.
Where is a shoe? I'm going to kill you. Now it will happen.

Speaker 20 But

Speaker 1 the famous stock character from Commedia de Laurte.

Speaker 1 Do you not consider a shoe to be inspirational?

Speaker 41 The shoe was outside of my direct line of sight. The shoe was a like, oh, the spider is behind.

Speaker 41 Now the spider has, my worst fear really is true, that the spider has escaped and I don't know where it is. Look around to see anything I could do.
I really thought,

Speaker 41 this is my moment. Ben is gone.
There is a large spider. I will prove to him with this photo that I have killed this thing and I will grab a Kleenex and I can smush it.
Yeah. But I couldn't

Speaker 14 do it. Couldn't do it.

Speaker 24 I couldn't do it.

Speaker 39 Well, Kleenex is different from a shoe.

Speaker 27 If you were to kill the spider, let me just say, I'm not, I don't understand why you're killing spiders anyway.

Speaker 58 I thought that this whole plan was you were going to get it into what we're calling a jar, even though it's a piece of plastic, and you were going to then put it outside, because spiders are helpful creatures.

Speaker 41 Sorry.

Speaker 20 No, I mean,

Speaker 62 do you like flies?

Speaker 5 Do you like mosquitoes?

Speaker 33 It's funny.

Speaker 30 Do you like silverfish?

Speaker 41 We have a...

Speaker 54 bit of a fly problem.

Speaker 41 So

Speaker 41 I do recognize the irony. We could have maybe used this spider.

Speaker 8 Spiders are your friends.

Speaker 21 Some spiders even eat other spiders.

Speaker 30 Did you know

Speaker 46 the brown recluse spider is very dangerous, venomous, you know?

Speaker 41 Yes, I was sure this was one.

Speaker 50 And you know what? But do you know what eats the brown recluse spider?

Speaker 40 A black recluse.

Speaker 41 Don't you see that that spider was black and large and looked like a brown recluse?

Speaker 21 It might have been, but I'm saying that if you had a spitting spider in your house, it would eat the brown recluse.

Speaker 38 Wouldn't that be fun to have a spitting spider in your house, Emily?

Speaker 31 God, no.

Speaker 1 Emily, are you suggesting the existence of a rainbow of recluse spiders?

Speaker 41 I mean, they had to name it brown for some reason, otherwise it would just be the recluse.

Speaker 30 Like different kinds of kryptonite?

Speaker 35 That's a very good point.

Speaker 41 I will say we do also know someone who was bitten tragically. I mean, she's alive, but

Speaker 30 by a brown recluse.

Speaker 23 Her energy went to a very weird place for a moment.

Speaker 31 I had you for a second.

Speaker 41 Thank you for that.

Speaker 41 She was bitten. A friend of ours bitten by a brown recluse and did.

Speaker 47 I bet it was not fun.

Speaker 20 She almost died.

Speaker 41 Yeah, yeah. And so I'm sure that any spider that size or general shade of rainbow is not good for me.

Speaker 21 This is in Minnesota.

Speaker 57 She's in Tennessee.

Speaker 30 We don't have that recluse.

Speaker 41 But I did grow up in a house with brown recluses, so I'm, you know, wired in terms of.

Speaker 38 Strange parenting moves.

Speaker 42 I don't know if you've explored this in therapy yet, but you might.

Speaker 17 There might be a connection between the fact that

Speaker 30 your parents raised you with siblings that were brown recluse spiders and the fact that you don't love spiders now.

Speaker 20 Huh, interesting. I don't know.

Speaker 53 Emily, do you have any other?

Speaker 27 Tell me about bicycles.

Speaker 11 How do you feel about bicycles?

Speaker 41 Well, it's another thing I'm was previously afraid of.

Speaker 41 I'm an adult bike learner. It is indeed not true that you

Speaker 51 never forget how to ride a bike.

Speaker 56 Well,

Speaker 42 if you've never learned.

Speaker 41 But I did. I did learn.

Speaker 30 You learned.

Speaker 41 I grew up riding a bike.

Speaker 40 And then you forgot?

Speaker 41 And then I just didn't for about 20 years.

Speaker 51 Hold up.

Speaker 14 What else is a lie?

Speaker 54 Spiders are good for the world.

Speaker 7 They are good for the world.

Speaker 20 That's another lie.

Speaker 8 Not all of them, but neither are all humans.

Speaker 36 In fact, most aren't. Yeah.

Speaker 38 In fact, let's go, Graham recluses.

Speaker 44 Do your job.

Speaker 41 Well, I relearned how to ride a bike. I spent a long time not knowing.

Speaker 41 I'm very afraid of falling. I'm I'm not a generally anxious person.
I don't think this evening is doing a great job of proving it.

Speaker 41 I just the basics, like spiders.

Speaker 37 Four hours of footage of you just being calm in your kitchen?

Speaker 41 Yes.

Speaker 49 I will.

Speaker 41 Spiders, snakes, falling off a mountain or falling off a bike. I'm not into those things.
And so

Speaker 41 I didn't ride a bike.

Speaker 2 Interesting Tinder profile.

Speaker 31 I hope I won't need one after tonight.

Speaker 37 Well, what does this come down to, in fact?

Speaker 27 Well, Ben, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

Speaker 32 I mean, just that she not tried the jar again. Like,

Speaker 32 I truly don't want to, like, I don't want to see something like, we don't have cameras in every room in the house, so probably I wouldn't have to see it. But

Speaker 32 I would like to not have to watch her go through that distress again. And also, just to admit that, like, she says, but maybe I would miss with the shoe.

Speaker 32 And my counter is, well, you did miss with the jar.

Speaker 31 So

Speaker 9 what would you say? You mentioned yourself that where the spider was positioned in the photograph,

Speaker 29 a shoe would not do.

Speaker 32 I mean, I think it actually might have. I think enough of the spider was up, but I would have just, you know, like gone with the paper towel or something and tried to smush it.

Speaker 58 Yeah, but you can't go with a paper towel because then you're just going to feel it go in your fan. You know what I'm talking about, Emily? You're just going to hear it go.

Speaker 24 And then it might just get out like one little tooth.

Speaker 42 One little tooth at the last minute.

Speaker 27 I don't think they have teeth. I don't think they have.

Speaker 7 Yeah, yeah, they have teeth in a lot.

Speaker 41 I now know how many eyes they have because our son has requested to be a spider for Halloween.

Speaker 41 But there are no teeth.

Speaker 60 The sins of the parent are visited on the other parent.

Speaker 32 He specifically says he wants to be a cute spider, not a scary spider, so they won't scare mom.

Speaker 30 So that's

Speaker 14 very adorable.

Speaker 41 But still a spider.

Speaker 36 There's no such thing as a cute spider.

Speaker 42 I don't understand, Emily.

Speaker 19 If I'm to rule in your favor, what, to go with

Speaker 16 the jar approach again?

Speaker 41 to do whatever I need to do

Speaker 41 it might be a jar I mean I it didn't work I I know that right but to take the time to psych myself up to really

Speaker 41 make a plan right and to do what I need to do the spider got killed And I was not distressed.

Speaker 40 Okay, yeah,

Speaker 41 in the moment I was, but afterwards,

Speaker 41 there's very little lasting trauma. Only pride.

Speaker 41 Only pride.

Speaker 9 Do you think that you're going to get better at killing spiders over time?

Speaker 41 I've gotten better in the last month since submitting this case because I feel like they've been following me. And

Speaker 41 I've probably smushed Jarlis

Speaker 41 at least five other spiders in our house. Wow.
Not that size.

Speaker 20 Not that size.

Speaker 41 Small, regular spiders.

Speaker 69 And

Speaker 16 have you worked your

Speaker 28 average killing time down to five to ten minutes or so?

Speaker 41 It's gotten down. I will say on one occasion, I did call Ben to kill the spider, and the spider got away.

Speaker 20 Right.

Speaker 2 It did get away.

Speaker 41 So even smushing isn't perfect.

Speaker 14 Ben, why aren't you there to kill the spiders?

Speaker 32 I try.

Speaker 18 So you don't want us to interfere with your method.

Speaker 43 How do you feel when Ben tells you you're doing it wrong?

Speaker 54 I feel emboldened to

Speaker 41 stick by the jar.

Speaker 69 And what did you say about the spiders are now following you?

Speaker 37 I feel like I skipped over that part.

Speaker 41 I mean, it's an old house in the fall. Is it coincidence?

Speaker 8 Right.

Speaker 45 They saw you torture that spider to death and now it's vengeance.

Speaker 41 It might be its baby.

Speaker 45 I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

Speaker 45 I'm going to go down into my creepy cellar.

Speaker 28 I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Speaker 1 Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ben, how are you feeling about your chances?

Speaker 20 I mean, not great.

Speaker 13 Why is that?

Speaker 32 I mean, I knew I didn't have much standing, but

Speaker 32 I would like to stress that, like, it's truly out of

Speaker 32 just a desire not to watch her be distressed. Because to me, she seemed very distressed in the video.

Speaker 1 And yeah, Emily, have you thought about putting together like a family emergency plan?

Speaker 7 Have I thought about it?

Speaker 41 There's a plan.

Speaker 1 How are you feeling about your chances?

Speaker 41 I feel pretty good. I feel like, you know, what am I? A human being in my own right?

Speaker 26 Wow.

Speaker 10 Well,

Speaker 1 we'll see whether Judge Hoshman disagrees.

Speaker 1 Please rise as Judge John Hoshman exits the corner he's been backed into.

Speaker 10 and presents his verdict.

Speaker 37 Ben, thank you for bringing your wife to the stage

Speaker 9 and consenting for her to appear in public.

Speaker 22 While normally I don't approve of such a thing,

Speaker 42 I'm glad you ordered her to be here so that we can all learn a lesson.

Speaker 56 No, of course, Emily is not merely your wife and partner.

Speaker 47 She is a whole human being in her own right.

Speaker 58 And she hates spiders and genuinely.

Speaker 46 And I appreciate that not only are you afraid of spiders, which is a pretty common fear and not an unreasonable one, as we know.

Speaker 43 I have my own wife who is a whole human being in her own right, was bitten not by a brown recluse, but has a big scar from a spider bite.

Speaker 35 They can do some real damage.

Speaker 39 One should be wary about them, even though they are.

Speaker 56 generally friends to all creatures except the ones they eat

Speaker 8 which are also the ones i hate so i I like spiders the enemy of my enemy is my friend Spidey I also appreciate the fact Emily that you are confronting your fears

Speaker 9 you learned to ride a bike even though you are a strange almost Barnum style freak who forgot how to ride a bike

Speaker 53 you

Speaker 37 you should charge tickets you should go on speaking tours

Speaker 42 It's amazing to me.

Speaker 59 But I appreciate that

Speaker 8 you did ask Ben to come home, but what you want to preserve is your own method of taking care of the spider.

Speaker 29 And I want to preserve that as well, because after all, you know, I know that it causes you distress to see Emily going through this long, long process in the kitchen.

Speaker 28 But you have to understand, like, she doesn't want to go to the shoe first.

Speaker 29 She's got the jar.

Speaker 7 She's got to figure that out first.

Speaker 50 Obviously, part of the process, I'm guessing, is that you want to see that spider in the jar so you can look at it and go, Yeah, I got you.

Speaker 63 No.

Speaker 2 And then once the jar is closed and it has no air, you can watch it slowly die.

Speaker 53 And that's part of the process that you have of overcoming your phobia.

Speaker 15 And also part of the process is apparently filming yourself while doing it.

Speaker 42 I'm not here to kink shame.

Speaker 15 I think that that's a good process.

Speaker 24 I think, honestly, Ben, you should not watch these videos, but Emily, you should consider putting them online and making a fortune.

Speaker 44 I think this could could be a very popular account.

Speaker 9 But mostly, I think Emily just wants to be seen and heard and understood as the individual that she is who is not ready to just go to the shoe.

Speaker 16 Now, shoe is a terrible way to.

Speaker 36 First of all, don't kill spiders.

Speaker 30 Don't kill spiders.

Speaker 46 They're easy to deal with.

Speaker 50 They're big, lumbering dummies. They don't want to hurt you.
They're afraid of you.

Speaker 29 I actually support the jar technique, not so that you can turn it into a killing jar, but over time, your fear, you might be able to put enough of your fear behind you that you can actually take that jar and bring it outside rather than smack a shoe against the wall and get spider guts all over your wall when that thing really truly means no harm and actually does a lot of good around the house, unless it's a brand recluse.

Speaker 16 You should identify what the spider is and then make a decision.

Speaker 9 Maybe you can get a kind of spray if it's a terrible poisonous spider.

Speaker 50 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 56 If you really just want to kill that thing, I think that's reasonable.

Speaker 9 If the spider's coming for you,

Speaker 16 there's a long distance possibility.

Speaker 9 But until then, I encourage you to go on your spider-trapping and killing journey that is your own.

Speaker 16 And I hope that eventually, like, I mean, because that's the only way to get over phobias pretty much is immersion therapy, right?

Speaker 42 Just do it again and again and again until it becomes a kind of routine for you and a very profitable YouTube channel.

Speaker 16 This is the sound of a gavel.

Speaker 36 Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Speaker 10 Ben and Emily, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Speaker 60 You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, Me for 15 years. And

Speaker 60 maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened. And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

Speaker 70 But no, no, you would be wrong. We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Speaker 60 Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

Speaker 71 The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me. We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

Speaker 41 And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

Speaker 60 So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 72 All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show. Let's learn everything.
So let's do a quick progress check. Have we learned about quantum physics?

Speaker 73 Yes, episode 59.

Speaker 72 We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we? Yes, we have. Same episode, actually.
Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Speaker 55 Episode 64.

Speaker 72 So, how close are we to learning everything?

Speaker 72 Bad news. We still haven't learned everything yet.

Speaker 30 Oh, we're ruined.

Speaker 72 No, no, no, it's good news as well. There is still a lot to learn.
Woo!

Speaker 73 I'm Dr. Ella Hubber.
I'm regular Tom Lum.

Speaker 72 I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

Speaker 72 And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Speaker 73 Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Speaker 1 Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break and you've got the Solid Sound Festival coming right around the corner.

Speaker 5 What more is there to say? June 29th will be the Solid Sound comedy portion hosted by me and Gene Gray, featuring Sydney Washington, Brittany Carney, Eugene Merman, Dave Hill, Todd Berry, and more.

Speaker 5 Come check it out if you're going to be in Western Massachusetts. It's going to be a wonderful time.

Speaker 2 And of course, a little band called Wilco is playing too.

Speaker 5 You can go to the Solid Sound, Google it. You'll find it.
It'll It'll be fun. Jesse, what's going on with you?

Speaker 1 Well, I actually also have a live event for once in my life

Speaker 1 on June 13th in Pasadena, California at LA Ist, the former KPCC at the Crawford.

Speaker 74 I will be doing a live bullseye interview with our pal, Paul Scheer.

Speaker 1 Paul has a brand new book out. I'm going to talk to him about his book and his

Speaker 1 crazy life. Paul is one of the loveliest and funniest dudes that there is.
I'm really looking forward to talking to him. Tickets are free.
You can also get fancy tickets that come with Paul's book.

Speaker 1 I would encourage you to do that. You can find that information by just googling Jesse Thorne Paul Scheer or going to laist.com, but it's June 13th.

Speaker 13 And again, like you can come to the show for free.

Speaker 1 It's going to be a really nice time. It's also, John, very nearly Father's Day.
And I happen to have a shop that sells things that are perfect for Father's Day.

Speaker 1 I happen to, including, I found a length of fabric john that is a printed cotton from the 50s specifically commemorating father's day that i made into pocket squares there's only a few of these left but you can find it at putthisonshop.com among the many many other things we've just added all kinds of new stuff to the store we've been adding and adding and adding um i would recommend that a dad might enjoy uh one of the new watches we've added to the shop.

Speaker 1 He might enjoy one of the new bracelets or

Speaker 1 I just added a Tiffany tie clip to the shop.

Speaker 1 There's also a lot of new ladies' stuff in the store. We've really gone wild adding stuff and many, many, many pairs of shoes.
If you want a really fine pair of shoes,

Speaker 1 there are a lot of them at putthisonshop.com right now. And I just made a code, weird dad.

Speaker 1 Nice. Use the code weird dad, get 10% off anything in the store.
So use that code if you're a Judge John Hodgman listener at putthisonshop.com.

Speaker 1 We have everything from jewelry for men and women to cards and games. We've got,

Speaker 74 as I said, shoes, vintage clothes.

Speaker 3 Can I get a little leather baseball glove?

Speaker 1 There is a little tiny leather baseball glove. There's also, I have

Speaker 74 a few left of these

Speaker 1 homework folders that are made to look like 1989 TOPS baseball cards.

Speaker 20 Yeah.

Speaker 1 We've got Andre Dawson, of course, you know the Hawk. We've got Elgato Grande, Andre Scalarraga, the big cat.

Speaker 26 Yeah.

Speaker 1 We're sold out of Mike Greenwell of the Boston Red Sox. I know that's your team.

Speaker 74 Yeah.

Speaker 1 We've got Danny Jackson, left-handed pitcher for the Reds,

Speaker 1 another great ball player.

Speaker 13 We're sold out of Big Mac, Mark McGuire.

Speaker 1 We got Mike Scott, I think, from the Houston Astros, another great ball player. We've got, look, just go to putthisonshop.com.
Take a look at all these wonderful treasures.

Speaker 1 There's everything from, you know, things that cost $8 or $10 to,

Speaker 1 look, I just posted, if your initial is R,

Speaker 1 I just posted a gargantuan Sterling

Speaker 1 Tiffany bowl.

Speaker 5 Saw that.

Speaker 1 That you're going to lose your mind over.

Speaker 27 Yeah, if your dad, if your dad is named Richard or Rolf or Rory

Speaker 5 or Roatan, there's this beautiful Tiffany silver bowl right there waiting for you.

Speaker 47 Beautiful, beautiful gift.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if your dad is Rockwell, the guy who sings a song, Somebody's Watching Me.

Speaker 22 Well, it feels that way. It feels like it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Anyway, put this on shop.com and use the code WeirdDad.

Speaker 74 WeirdDad.

Speaker 5 There's some real weird dad stuff in here. Like this 1950s look of the Irish clip on bow tie.
Somebody's dad is going to get that and love it.

Speaker 7 You got an

Speaker 7 Irish-American dad?

Speaker 47 Go get this bow tie. It's terrific.

Speaker 1 But for the, it's also good good for people of all family roles. There's, we've added a lot of ladies' jewelry lately that I really love.
So go to put thisonshop.com.

Speaker 13 We also have some awesome.

Speaker 1 This is something I got at a flea market in Arizona that I am so pumped about. And it's cheap.

Speaker 74 Made it cheap.

Speaker 1 These newspaper aprons.

Speaker 1 Like the aprons that a guy who sells the newspaper on a street corner or on a highway highway median or whatever.

Speaker 26 Yeah, I know the guy you mean.

Speaker 1 I have one for the Chicago American, two different styles for the Chicago American, one for the Kiwanis Club and one for DuPont Imaging Systems.

Speaker 26 I don't know.

Speaker 1 And Chicago Today.

Speaker 1 The sweet newspaperman apron, it's called. Go to putthison shop.com.

Speaker 3 Use the go to putthisonshop.com.

Speaker 5 Just looking at this website will bring you delight.

Speaker 26 There's so much fun stuff to look at here and get some.

Speaker 74 I love looking looking at it.

Speaker 1 Okay, we'll be back in just a second on Judge John Hodgman.

Speaker 1 John, we have a lot more justice to dispense, but we also have some good news to dispense.

Speaker 53 That's exactly right.

Speaker 15 We have a friend of the court here tonight with us.

Speaker 18 It says you're a local talent, but that's not true.

Speaker 11 He is a global talent.

Speaker 15 He is a pan-dimensional talent who is simply manifesting on this plane of St.

Speaker 45 Paul, Minnesota briefly.

Speaker 59 And we're lucky to share Meet Space with him during this time.

Speaker 37 You know him from a little something called Riff Tracks and Mystery Science Theater 3000.

Speaker 24 Please welcome Kevin Murphy.

Speaker 10 Thank you for performing the ceremonial kick.

Speaker 15 You know, I haven't seen you, Kevin, since we were in this very theater together probably about four years ago.

Speaker 45 That's right.

Speaker 59 And what is it like to live in this theater?

Speaker 6 I should go home every now and again, but you know, it just gets into your blood.

Speaker 7 I know, absolutely.

Speaker 8 You have your little hidey hole up there and you peer down all the performances and you sing sad songs.

Speaker 28 It's wonderful.

Speaker 6 I've urinated in every corner of this theater.

Speaker 1 Kevin, I saw you not all that long ago at San Francisco Sketch Fest, but since I last saw you, you have become a novelist.

Speaker 6 Like one of five novelists. There's five of us from Rift Track.
I think there are in the world.

Speaker 30 There are more.

Speaker 6 My Rift Tracks, Conference, and I

Speaker 6 wrote a book, Connor Lestrucca and Sean Thomason, and Bill Corbett and Michael J. Nelson.
And it's called

Speaker 6 The Naked Clone: A Nick Nulty Mystery.

Speaker 2 Now, when you say mystery novel, it's a mystery novel.

Speaker 15 And the detective is Nick Nulty.

Speaker 6 Nick Nulty.

Speaker 1 I just assumed that the mystery was Nick Nolte because I've always just been like, Nick Nolte.

Speaker 6 Well,

Speaker 6 we have a lot of fun with Nick Nolte at Rift Tracks. I think he's mentioned in just about every title that we've done and in all our live shows.

Speaker 6 And Mike Nelson does a great impression, a throat-severing impression of Nick Nolte.

Speaker 6 And we thought of it.

Speaker 50 A Nick Nolte impression is kind of like Tom Waits meets a Vitamix.

Speaker 6 It's even worse than that, Compadre.

Speaker 6 And I can't do it because I just, my throat, I just don't have the throat.

Speaker 48 I had a beautiful throat.

Speaker 6 But

Speaker 6 so we decided we had always wanted to do this exercise that we'd done in the past where someone takes the first chapter and then we hand the book off to someone else. Right.

Speaker 6 Takes the next chapter and we get to do no editing, no revising. We don't know what, you know, we know what happened before, but we don't know what happens next.

Speaker 1 This is what's called an exquisite corpse, which is also Nick Nulty's wife's nickname for it. That's right.

Speaker 6 One hell of a corpse, Pacco is for sure.

Speaker 6 And it's fun to imitate him and it's fun to make, well, I mean, now,

Speaker 6 you look at the guy, I mean,

Speaker 6 maybe we pick on him a little unfairly. You know, one bad mug shot and one video of you in your pajamas diving through a dumpster.

Speaker 19 Suddenly you've got a reputation. It's not fair.

Speaker 6 You wake up one time under the bench in an airport concourse and then people start to think things about you. So we've embellished his character,

Speaker 6 you know, to extremes. The plot, as thin as it is, involves

Speaker 6 actors in Hollywood being kidnapped and clones of them being put out of the world to take their places.

Speaker 15 Ah, that sounds good.

Speaker 63 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Sinister.

Speaker 15 You said that you wrote every fifth chapter?

Speaker 6 Every fifth chapter, yes.

Speaker 58 Sounds like cheating.

Speaker 42 I love it.

Speaker 6 Next time count me in. That's great.
Writing a whole book is hard. It is, yeah.

Speaker 38 The Naked Clone, a Nick Nulty Mystery, is available where, Kevin?

Speaker 6 It's available at rifftrex.com or at Amazon, either as an e-book or in print.

Speaker 15 Now, you're not just an author and a singer with a beautiful throat.

Speaker 27 Thank you.

Speaker 53 And obviously a comedic genius.

Speaker 1 We have no choice but to stand this gorgeous throat.

Speaker 7 Yeah.

Speaker 7 We have no choice.

Speaker 37 We have no choice.

Speaker 37 It's obligatory. That's right.
You are also a very accomplished nose flautist.

Speaker 7 You play the nose flute.

Speaker 45 I do. Please don't take it out.

Speaker 30 I won't.

Speaker 27 Don't take it out and don't play it.

Speaker 8 I don't care.

Speaker 45 I just wanted to mention it and we're not going to talk about it again.

Speaker 14 No, okay.

Speaker 15 Because we've got a segment coming up called Swift Justice. This is where we hear as many cases as possible.
And how much time, Jesse Thorne?

Speaker 27 15 minutes, baby. 15 minutes.

Speaker 53 And to make it even more challenging and fun, frankly, Kevin, would you stick around and release your expertise?

Speaker 6 I really wanted to play the nose flute, but I'll stick around.

Speaker 28 No, no, thank you. No nose flute.

Speaker 8 I appreciate that. All right.

Speaker 15 Why don't we get going on our actual segment, Kevin?

Speaker 58 I don't know why you keep bringing up the nose flute.

Speaker 6 It's a little

Speaker 6 too much.

Speaker 9 We already plugged your book. Just take it easy with me.

Speaker 6 All right, all right, all right.

Speaker 1 Let's put 15 minutes on the clock and welcome to the stage Karsten and Abel.

Speaker 10 Karsten is a former community college teacher who currently writes and hosts bar trivia.

Speaker 1 He is here with his son Abel, who's a physics student at Bethel University. All right.

Speaker 15 Welcome to the court of Judge John Hodgman.

Speaker 18 Karsten,

Speaker 50 this case regards a game of scategories.

Speaker 58 Is that correct?

Speaker 11 Yes, it is.

Speaker 24 Very good. Abel, you played this game of scategories with your dad.
Is that correct?

Speaker 20 That's correct.

Speaker 58 Can you explain for those who may not know, or for me who hates categories,

Speaker 9 how it's played again?

Speaker 68 Yeah, so it's a fun word game where each round you roll a 20-sided.

Speaker 22 Let's say it's a word game.

Speaker 31 We don't need to buy. Thank you.

Speaker 68 It's a word game.

Speaker 1 Wow. You're really running into a boggle buzzsaw over here.

Speaker 22 Well, I don't care for boggle either, but let's go ahead.

Speaker 11 It's a word game.

Speaker 56 It's a word game.

Speaker 68 Okay, we got that covered. You roll a 20-sided die each round,

Speaker 68 which gives you a letter, and there's a card with prompts on it, and you have to come up with something that fulfills the prompt that starts with the letter that you rolled.

Speaker 58 So, in the case of the game at hand and the dispute at hand, a letter and a category came up.

Speaker 11 What was that, please?

Speaker 68 The letter was B and the category was foods that are round.

Speaker 24 Foods that are round that start with the letter B.

Speaker 15 And Carsten, what did you offer as a reply?

Speaker 68 Banana.

Speaker 75 Banana.

Speaker 23 Banana.

Speaker 1 Foods that are round starting with the letter B.

Speaker 34 Banana.

Speaker 11 How many points did you award your father for this incredible reply?

Speaker 14 Zero. Zero points, I see.

Speaker 53 Carsten, how is a banana round?

Speaker 68 Well, I mean, going back to when this kid was 20 pounds in a high chair, I was slicing up the bananas.

Speaker 34 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 30 Every one of them was round, and that's how he knew them first.

Speaker 8 Hey, hey, we don't have time for all this.

Speaker 14 This isn't Lake Wobegun.

Speaker 6 Going back to his birth.

Speaker 11 I apologize, Carson.

Speaker 27 You were saying, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to.

Speaker 68 Oh, do you tell a kid, you want bananas on your cereal? Every one of them won't be around.

Speaker 26 Oh, so your

Speaker 9 slices of bananas

Speaker 29 are around.

Speaker 14 But slices of banana starts with an S, doesn't it?

Speaker 46 He was two.

Speaker 68 He was learning the word banana.

Speaker 21 When did you play this game of no, no, no, no,

Speaker 49 when he had the medallions of banana?

Speaker 42 Abel's a genius.

Speaker 30 I've seen him.

Speaker 22 This dude was having backstreet categories games in the streets of St.

Speaker 37 Paul when he was two years old, taking his dad down.

Speaker 35 When was the game, actually, though?

Speaker 68 About five years ago.

Speaker 46 About five years ago.

Speaker 68 So I was more than two.

Speaker 11 You were more than two, I was more than two.

Speaker 8 And what do you remember of the night?

Speaker 37 Was this a hotly disputed answer?

Speaker 68 Yeah, yeah, I was.

Speaker 20 Yeah, yeah, we were just playing.

Speaker 68 My two older siblings, it was just us four.

Speaker 11 Right.

Speaker 58 Okay. And

Speaker 58 you awarded your dad zero points, but now you're suing to get the points back.

Speaker 68 As I remember it, I conceded the point to keep the peace so we didn't lose this game altogether.

Speaker 59 Right.

Speaker 68 The way that my family of origin has.

Speaker 1 To keep the peace or retain the grudge?

Speaker 6 This is a long and bitter memory for you both, isn't it?

Speaker 30 Yes.

Speaker 22 Kevin Murphy, what do you think?

Speaker 6 Well, in a purely Euclidean sense, I kind of side with dad here because you slice it on a plane. There is roundness, the quality of roundness in a banana.

Speaker 6 Maybe not prima fascia, but somewhere in there, roundness is dying to get out.

Speaker 37 Thinking outside the peel, if you will.

Speaker 6 Yes, thinking outside the peel.

Speaker 44 You were right not to laugh.

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 8 I knew it was wrong when I said it, and I apologize.

Speaker 37 So you support the dad then, Kevin Murphy.

Speaker 6 Yes.

Speaker 24 I see.

Speaker 15 And Carson, does this still come up in conversation?

Speaker 29 How do you keep this grudge alive?

Speaker 1 Oh, well, it gets used both ways.

Speaker 68 If I say something that the kids think is ridiculous, oh, and bananas around.

Speaker 68 If they say something that I think is creative thinking, I say, ah, and bananas around.

Speaker 58 The double-edged banana, if you will.

Speaker 46 Sure, sure.

Speaker 62 Why did you laugh at that?

Speaker 31 That was terrible.

Speaker 45 What's wrong with you?

Speaker 7 It's wrong with you.

Speaker 7 Abel, what would you have me roll if I were to rule in your favor?

Speaker 68 So my dad's trying to win points that are not justly awarded to him. So I think it would be fair that I get to veto one of his points in any future game of my choosing.

Speaker 38 Well, who won the game back five years ago?

Speaker 68 Oh, no one remembers.

Speaker 68 It's irrelevant.

Speaker 49 It's irrelevant.

Speaker 37 Surely the winner would remember.

Speaker 30 Well, we don't.

Speaker 1 It's not something you remember. It's like riding a bike.

Speaker 68 There were so many games, but only one banana dispute.

Speaker 9 You got to replay the game.

Speaker 56 That's all you have to do. Replay the game.

Speaker 9 I'm not giving you a point for that.

Speaker 56 That was very creative thinking.

Speaker 47 But this is categories, goddammit.

Speaker 37 Round Round banana will not stand.

Speaker 9 I'm sorry, Kevin Murphy, but everyone, when you picture a banana, no, they say.

Speaker 8 Yes, I say.

Speaker 27 Picture a banana in your head.

Speaker 9 It is a crescent shape.

Speaker 56 It is not round.

Speaker 45 I'm sorry, Carson.

Speaker 9 It does not stand.

Speaker 45 You must replay the game until there is an established winner.

Speaker 47 Carson, I wish you the best of luck.

Speaker 30 I'm gutted.

Speaker 10 Thank you, Carson and Abel. Let's welcome to the stage Christina and Nate.

Speaker 1 Christina is an orthopedic surgeon who likes to swim competitively. Nate is a pathologist.

Speaker 14 They have two kids and a cat named Suki.

Speaker 69 Two kids and a cat named Suki.

Speaker 53 Who seeks justice in this fake courtroom?

Speaker 5 I do, your honor. Christina, what is the nature of your complaint?

Speaker 41 Our cat, Suki, is an indoor cat, never goes outside, and she likes to spend time looking out through the screen door. But there's an orange cat in the neighborhood who comes by and taunts her.

Speaker 41 Taunts her. Taunts her.

Speaker 9 And you say that Nate has a feud with this cat?

Speaker 41 He has a feud with the cat, but the feud is that he has figured out where the cat lives and wants to go ask the owners to keep the cat indoors. Wow.

Speaker 9 You want to tell the owners how to run their own cat business?

Speaker 20 Okay.

Speaker 31 I mean, I'm not crazy.

Speaker 15 Like, I don't think this is. That's how the best defenses start.

Speaker 55 Okay, wait.

Speaker 36 Wait, okay, I'm not crazy.

Speaker 58 Yeah.

Speaker 33 I mean, I think the chances of success here are

Speaker 7 pretty low.

Speaker 30 Okay.

Speaker 37 My client is not crazy.

Speaker 28 What is the nature of this orange cat?

Speaker 24 Chaos? Pure chaos?

Speaker 62 Evil?

Speaker 62 Describe this cat.

Speaker 41 I just have to say we went on a walk earlier today, and it was hysterical because the orange cat came wandering by and ran up to Nate and rubbed on his leg.

Speaker 30 Yes.

Speaker 41 As if they were friends.

Speaker 48 That's right.

Speaker 7 It was playing.

Speaker 41 And I have video evidence, too.

Speaker 26 It was uncanny.

Speaker 9 You have video evidence of the cat playing mind games with Nate?

Speaker 20 I do. Yeah.

Speaker 37 Because it knew he was taking it to court.

Speaker 45 He was trying to.

Speaker 20 She did. Yeah.

Speaker 7 Trying to influence the jury.

Speaker 11 This was judgment day.

Speaker 20 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 9 We don't have that video evidence, but we do have some photographic evidence of the cats in question.

Speaker 58 May I see that, please?

Speaker 24 That is Suki

Speaker 42 sitting in a box with a pair of dangerously placed open scissors.

Speaker 35 You say you care about this cat?

Speaker 28 That cat's going to get a cut paw.

Speaker 17 Mail me away from the orange cat, Daddy.

Speaker 15 That's a very cute indoor cat.

Speaker 56 Now let's take a look at the orange cat.

Speaker 22 Oh, look at that asshole.

Speaker 30 Skulking away.

Speaker 27 What might have the orange cat been doing just before this photo was taken?

Speaker 68 God only knows.

Speaker 24 You say you know the owners of this orange cat.

Speaker 42 You have identified who they are.

Speaker 7 Yes.

Speaker 9 You do not know the orange cat's name because it doesn't matter.

Speaker 29 It is a beast to you that should be stopped.

Speaker 14 Exactly.

Speaker 6 John, I believe its name is Nick.

Speaker 30 Nolte.

Speaker 15 I'll allow it for the purpose of this case. Nick Nolte the cat.

Speaker 30 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 15 You say it taunts Suki.

Speaker 53 I hear that you taunt it with a garden hose.

Speaker 31 Yes.

Speaker 25 I mean, wait, wait.

Speaker 12 I'm not crazy.

Speaker 37 My life hasn't been so deranged that I'm spraying a cat with a garden hose

Speaker 37 because I fear it.

Speaker 16 Did you spray the cat with a garden hose? Yes.

Speaker 34 I see.

Speaker 48 Thank you for your honesty.

Speaker 50 How do you know that Suki is being tormented by this cat?

Speaker 32 Nick Nulty will come in the backyard

Speaker 32 and just kind of be wandering around.

Speaker 26 Suki will be...

Speaker 11 How dare it.

Speaker 30 Well, right.

Speaker 11 I mean, it's my property.

Speaker 32 And Suki will be sitting by the back door and will start making all these weird noises and start jumping up on the screens. And like, yeah.

Speaker 33 I mean, she's honked off.

Speaker 25 She's freaked out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 9 Would you say, Christina, that Nick Nulty bothers Suki or bothers Nate more?

Speaker 41 I would say that at this point, Nate definitely gets more incensed when the orange cat comes around than Suki does. I mean, Suki is interested, but she's keeping it together.

Speaker 41 And Nate is like tearing out of the house like a bat out of hell.

Speaker 58 You want to go over to the neighbors and tell them to keep their damn cat home?

Speaker 57 I'd like to try.

Speaker 2 How would you phrase it?

Speaker 34 You know, I'd maybe bring a- First of all, I'm not crazy.

Speaker 14 Right.

Speaker 57 No, I'd maybe bring a plate of cookies and say, listen, I'm sorry we haven't had a chance chance to meet before.

Speaker 11 Uh-huh. Here's some cookies.

Speaker 31 Keep your damn cat inside.

Speaker 49 No, I mean, you know, I'd be a nice guy about it.

Speaker 31 I'm not a monster.

Speaker 1 We should have just ahead of time gotten a list of the different stuff you're not.

Speaker 21 Kevin Murphy, I don't have a lot of experience with neighborly relations in the Twin Cities.

Speaker 37 or the Midwest.

Speaker 9 How do you think that that would go over at a house?

Speaker 6 Depending on the neighborhood.

Speaker 28 You have a pet as well, do you not? Yeah, a dog.

Speaker 6 I'm not a cat person. I'd rather have a pet spider.

Speaker 9 I believe we have some evidence of that dog.

Speaker 11 Can we see that, please?

Speaker 6 Her name is Vita.

Speaker 6 There she is.

Speaker 6 Yeah. What cat can compare? I'm asking you.

Speaker 8 So let's try this out.

Speaker 46 Nate,

Speaker 7 take that microphone out of there.

Speaker 45 Just pull it forward.

Speaker 39 Now, pretend you have a plate of cookies.

Speaker 46 And go tell Kevin Murphy to keep his dog

Speaker 25 off your damn property.

Speaker 11 Kevin Murphy,

Speaker 57 here's some cookies. Snickerdoodles.

Speaker 31 I hear you play a

Speaker 28 cookie made from a dog, Nate.

Speaker 75 Disgusting.

Speaker 32 I mean, if we could get together and hear a no-salute sometime, I'd love that.

Speaker 6 This isn't going well. Jesse, get the hose.
Get the hose, Jesse.

Speaker 42 All right, Nate, please return to your area.

Speaker 27 You know, I understand that you are protective of your cat, Suki.

Speaker 53 Your cat is very cute looking.

Speaker 27 It is clearly an indoor cat. It kind of reminds me of my cat, which is an indoor cat and kind of a dum-dum cat.

Speaker 47 But I'm going to suggest that perhaps, perhaps, this other cat, Nick Nulty, we'll call it, is actually bringing a level of stimulation and excitement to Suki's life.

Speaker 47 And one of the other things that you need to remember is that cats are inherently anti-capitalist because every cat knows none of this is your property.

Speaker 23 Leave Nick Nulty alone. This is the sound of a gavel.

Speaker 10 Thank you, Christina and Nate. Let's welcome to the stage Kate and Brian.

Speaker 1 Kate is from Minnesota, works at the University of Minnesota, and is part of a cookbook club.

Speaker 11 She met her husband, Brian, at work through her dad.

Speaker 37 At the University of Minnesota, you work with your dad at the University of Minnesota?

Speaker 41 He used to work there. He's retired now, yeah.

Speaker 50 And I'm sorry, Brian, what do you do?

Speaker 37 You hang around the university?

Speaker 11 Well, of course.

Speaker 42 Do you have a position there?

Speaker 11 Software development.

Speaker 52 Oh, okay, excellent.

Speaker 37 Who seeks justice here in my fake court?

Speaker 7 I do.

Speaker 37 Kate, what is the nature of your complaint?

Speaker 41 I seek justice for myself and for the citizens of the state of Minnesota because we have been told that we play our childhood game incorrectly just because it is different from the game played by the rest of the country.

Speaker 69 Something's happening.

Speaker 60 Kevin Murphy.

Speaker 15 You're a native Chicagoan, but you've lived here a long time.

Speaker 38 Do you sense this?

Speaker 6 I think this is the first time people in Minnesota has shown anger in about 35 years it's palpable it's palpable i feel it yes all right please continue kate i apologize our our game is different and it is superior like our lake

Speaker 41 and everyone here knows what i'm talking about it is duck duck

Speaker 23 holy crap

Speaker 1 guys i'll leave if you want me to

Speaker 19 okay and

Speaker 14 i don't know what you're talking about brian can

Speaker 15 Are you from Minnesota originally, Brian?

Speaker 30 I am not. I can't remember.
Okay, can you explain to me you're from Chicago as well?

Speaker 44 Yeah.

Speaker 7 What is your beloved partner talking about?

Speaker 11 Duck Duck Goose.

Speaker 61 Right?

Speaker 23 Yeah.

Speaker 49 So

Speaker 69 the game, the childhood game

Speaker 29 that you and I

Speaker 27 and Kevin...

Speaker 9 Did you grow up playing Duck Duck Goose?

Speaker 6 Never played it.

Speaker 45 No, that's right. You never played any recess games at all.

Speaker 6 Just, you know beat each other with a wiffle bat that was our recess game yeah chicago chicago yeah chicago

Speaker 1 uh but jesse you've heard that what the i've heard of the game duck duck goose before what did you know you know back at back at the discovery center school in san francisco it was either duck duck goose or very occasionally hamburger hamburger cheeseburger oh

Speaker 41 so tell me about duck duck gray duck please kate and only you it does bear a striking resemblance you do sit in a circle and you tap everyone everyone on the shoulder or the head, and you wait until you get to the last person who becomes it by saying, in our case, gray duck.

Speaker 41 And then you run around the circle, you try to catch each other. Now, there is

Speaker 41 a self-limiting factor here because you have to say a different color every time you tap someone, and you cannot repeat. There's also the great psych out where you say green duck.

Speaker 26 Whoa.

Speaker 41 And I don't know about everyone here, but I remember distinctly being in kindergarten and being excited when somebody got the big pack of 24 crayons and we learned new colors that we could use in the game at recess.

Speaker 53 What were some of the other fake out colors?

Speaker 7 I can't think.

Speaker 27 Grass duck?

Speaker 41 Well, we didn't have green was the only good psych out one, but like I remember sea foam. That was like foam duck, yeah.

Speaker 26 If you spent some time at a Benjamin Moore store, you could really come up with some real

Speaker 8 innovations.

Speaker 22 Okay, so there's a little bit more stress.

Speaker 18 It is a different game then.

Speaker 19 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 53 And what happens when you finally say gray duck, that person is it.

Speaker 11 And what happens then?

Speaker 41 Well, then you run around the circle and you try to get back to their spot.

Speaker 44 Before they get you. Before they do.

Speaker 20 Before they get you. Right, okay.

Speaker 18 And

Speaker 59 what is the bottle of liquid that you're holding?

Speaker 41 Oh, yeah. So we're really proud of this.
Like, I'm wearing a gray duck shirt. And I'm like, this is a bottle of vodka called Gray Duck.

Speaker 41 I thought

Speaker 41 something, something alcohol molar.

Speaker 25 I was, well, okay, I'll

Speaker 39 thank you for condemning me to check a bag at the airport tomorrow.

Speaker 1 If gifts work at the Supreme Court, why not here?

Speaker 36 Yeah, that's exactly right.

Speaker 35 I very objectively have found in Kate's favor.

Speaker 58 Not exactly.

Speaker 15 That's interesting, because I was going to suggest an adult alternative called Duck Duck Grey Goose,

Speaker 42 but obviously the people of Minnesota have gotten there before me.

Speaker 58 They're a little bit faster in the game of DuckDuck Gray Duck.

Speaker 53 Look, we have almost a circle here.

Speaker 43 I think there's only one way to solve this.

Speaker 47 Let's play a game.

Speaker 41 Is it okay if I tap you?

Speaker 33 Consent? Okay. Oh, yes,

Speaker 52 you may tap my body and I think my colleagues as well.

Speaker 41 Orange duck.

Speaker 10 Yellow duck.

Speaker 41 Green duck.

Speaker 41 Gray duck.

Speaker 38 You didn't even run around.

Speaker 49 He got me.

Speaker 40 He tagged you? He tagged me.

Speaker 42 i don't think that you got to go once around okay

Speaker 55 get me

Speaker 10 watch the ukulele

Speaker 20 careful

Speaker 35 brian i love you but obviously kate wins it's a different game and i dare say and i'm going to say this is a better game than duck duck goose duck duck right

Speaker 10 Thank you, Kate and Brian.

Speaker 10 And thank you, Kevin Murphy.

Speaker 6 And thank you for having me out here. How about Kevin Murphy

Speaker 10 from Rift Tracks? The Naked Clone,

Speaker 58 a Nick Nulty

Speaker 10 mystery.

Speaker 29 Thank you, Kevin Murphy. We will not see you again tonight.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thanks to Redditor Humphrey the Camel for naming the case in this episode.
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Speaker 1 The Jet Sean Hodgman podcast was created by John Hodgman and Jesse Thorne. Our producer on tour was Laura Valk.
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