Juvenile Court With Kurt Braunohler

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

It's been a long time since we have opened up the doors of our juvenile court, but the letters from kids have been piling up.

It's time we clear them from our docket.

Piling up.

Piling up, John, like the toys in a child's uncleaned room.

Piling up like the abandoned toys next to the garbage hole at the dump in western Massachusetts, which I used to look at forlornly, thinking

that's the saddest thing I've ever seen.

John, my home right now is locked in an eternal battle between my children leaving small pieces of plastic on the floor of various kinds and my new dog.

picking them up and turning them into differently shaped small pieces of plastic.

Go Jr.

My name is Judge John Hodgman and this is juvenile court, but this isn't about parents bringing their kids to court for the things they leave lying around.

This isn't like parents with Lego dents in the bottom of their feet because the kids can't clean up.

This is about kids who have beef with their parents and with their siblings.

We have a very special guest joining us.

He is a parent, and he's also one of the funniest people in the world.

An incredibly tall person, incredibly charming person, traveled the entire country on a jet ski.

He's wonderful.

He's the co-host of the podcast Bananas.

Welcome back to the show, Kurt Brownoller.

Hi, Kurt.

Hello.

Hello.

Nice to see you, Kurt.

Hello, Jesse.

You're a man whose life has been transformed by parenthood.

But I think

when I say transformed, I want to be clear.

Having known you for 15 years or so, you were a dad 15 years ago, long before you had children.

I know.

I always say like,

my life finally caught up with my looks.

I've just been looking like a dad for 40 years with no kids.

Yeah.

Eventually, your life experience was comparable to the commercial casting notices that you received from nation.

The joke was always that, yeah, like that, that dad seems too drunk.

And now it's like, hey, that dad is too drunk.

Kurt, you were on After Midnight the other night on CBS, wonderful program featuring some of our favorite comedians like Judge John Hoffman.

And it got to the final

the final round.

Oh, this was an incredible moment in broadcasting history.

You used your call a friend.

Yeah.

And magic occurred.

It was, so the bit that they said, they were like, look, if you lose, you're going to have to call someone and tell them you lost.

And then I was like, hmm.

And I called Lauren and I was like, what if?

This is your wife.

Yeah.

What if I lost and I called you

and you just told me like, don't come home.

And then she was like, no, that's dumb.

And I was like, okay.

And she was like, well, no, what if you call, you have to explain it to the kids that you lost?

Like that they're very excited.

And I was like, okay, that's much funnier.

And,

and so then I just told Taylor, because I've done the show before.

And I just told Taylor, like, hey, the host of After Midnight, Taylor Tomlinson, who hosts the show.

I just said, just make me lose because it's all all fake, you know, and she, and she was like, okay, okay, great.

You have a bit.

And I was like, we have a bit.

And then,

so I lose.

I have to call.

And you can hear the kids in the background because it is dinner time.

How many children do you, how many children do you have?

I have two.

I have a four and a six year old, almost four and six years old.

Yeah.

Right.

And Olive is my sixth, almost seven-year-old.

And Lauren's like, oh, I tell her I lost.

I'm so sorry.

And then asks, and then she's like, can you explain it to the kids?

Cause they were really excited.

And then like the audience just goes like,

oh, now.

And then you just hear Olive's little voice come on.

Hi, Papa.

And then I tell her, and then you just hear Lauren going, oh, no, no, Olive, no, no, Olive, Olive.

And it just seems like Olive's very, very upset.

Olive was like.

She just immediately walked away.

She's like, I'm going to turn it on the TV and see what, what's happening.

She thought it was like happening right then and there.

Oh, okay.

But she wasn't actually very upset.

But it sounds like she was very upset.

It was really magical.

It really looks magical.

But as a child of Brown, Oliver, Olive knows a bit when she hears one.

She knows a bit when she hears one.

Yeah.

But I think what was very disconcerting, I think, for her was she could hear the audience in the background, you know, like having reactions, which I don't think she expected.

She understood obviously to you performing to dead silence.

Exactly.

Yes, exactly.

Well, we've got complaints from a lot of children.

None from Olive, though.

We did not receive any letters from your child, Olive.

Oh,

she's got complaints.

But maybe we can capture that lightning in a bottle by

emailing her by the end of the podcast and seeing if we can dig up an issue.

What complaint do you think she would have with you if

you were to ask her?

Oh, it would probably be about some unfairness between her and her brother.

Right.

Because the younger sibling, I do think, gets away with a lot of stuff.

Yes.

Oh, yes.

That's true.

I mean, I'm an only child, but I've observed it.

Yeah.

Also, they get a lot of different kinds of and more attention being the baby.

Yeah.

And more sympathy on some things.

And I think she feels that even though we try and assuage it.

Which reminds me as a gesture of gratitude for your coming on the show.

I have a couple of gifts for your kids.

Oh.

Yeah.

I have a single bit of honey for Olive.

And for your younger child, I have a cashier's check for $5,000.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

That's it just seems, I just know what they like.

It's good that she knows not to accept a personal check.

No, no, no, no.

I received explicit instructions, cashier's check only, please.

Is a bit an official unit of honey measurement?

Yeah.

Okay.

Only thing worse than a bit of honey is a mega bit of honey.

Here's a case from Samantha, age 10, in San Jose, California.

Dear Judge John Hotman,

which is what I used to call you when I was little.

I remember that, Samantha.

Love it.

Now Samantha's all grown up, and I hope that Samantha can call me Judge John wrongman, but go on.

My dad, Todd, likes to dance in public, especially in stores.

It's embarrassing.

Dancing with me at home is fine.

Dancing along to mom's ringtone is also fine.

Dancing is fine as long as no one else is around.

But he says dad's just got a dad and that shaking his booty in public is okay.

Please make him stop.

Thank you for saving me.

I don't know, Kurt, should we save Samantha

from Todd the dancing dad?

I wonder.

I mean, we should, I mean, I wonder.

My main question is, what is the option here?

Is to rob Todd of his rights to dance?

Yeah, you know, know, Kurt, it's fairly settled law here in the court of Judge John Hodgman that weird dads have an inalienable right to embarrass their children

at any possible opportunity.

You know, I think we can go to a rule that's often abused in my home,

which is my body, my choice.

So we've taught my body my choice from a very young age to the point where many children in a household, my household, have attempted to to use it to justify not going to school

because it is my body, my choice.

And then that puts you in a sticky situation of having to, you don't want to say my body, my choice isn't right.

But then you have to work, have side rules about my body, my choice.

But still, my body, my choice, Todd's body, Todd's choice to dance.

Let me ask you, as a dad, Kurt,

and you too, Bailiff Jesse Thorne, are there any things that, any behaviors that you are banned from doing by your children?

So, for example, my children who are now grown, but for many years,

get very upset with me when

I say grazie.

Especially in Italy.

We visited Italy one time and I said grazie and they said, no, don't do it, bad.

No.

And now I say it all the time just to annoy them.

That's very funny.

And is there anything that you're banned from doing?

When my daughter Grace is in the car, I'm not allowed to listen to anything on the stereo, not just music, nothing.

I can't listen to the baseball game.

I can't listen to music.

I can't listen to whatever.

I can't listen to a driving meditation.

I truly,

there's no sound allowed.

But I think like sound is a big one.

And because I have neurodivergent kids,

they're very sensitive to different kinds of sounds.

So like I also, as a broadly speaking, despite the fact that I have in the living room a beautiful vintage Macintosh receiver and turntable and gigantic JBL speakers that are my most treasured possessions and, you know, maybe, I don't know, a thousand records along the on the wall, I am not allowed to listen to them.

Yeah.

I think that the proper ruling is Todd, Todd the dancing dad, you may dance, you have a human right to dance,

but instead of dancing like no one is watching, dance like Samantha is watching and feel how that feels to know that your daughter Samantha is feeling embarrassed because of you.

Take that into consideration.

She has feelings.

Here is something from Sam in Silver Spring, Maryland.

I'm almost 11 years old, and I want to watch the 1971 crime movie, The French Connection, with Gene Hackman and Roy Schneider.

How do you know a child is a Judge John Hodgman listener?

They want to watch The French Connection.

My dad says, no.

As a compromise, he said I could watch Joseph Sargent's The Taking of Pelham 123.

Elliot Kalen's favorite movie, by the way.

Yeah, and one of my favorites too.

Top 10 all time for me, I think.

Right.

I loved it.

But it's not the French connection.

I asked my parents' friends, and at least one of them

says I should watch it.

By at least one of them, I think he means one of them.

That person is very thoughtful and considerate.

My dad is a lawyer.

He says, if you rule against him, he will respect the legal process.

Okay.

So for those who don't know,

according to Common Sense Media, because I've never seen this movie, CommonsenseMedia.org, which rates movies for suitability for kids.

Wonderful website.

The French connection is boring with cursing just for the sake of it and no plot to speak of.

That was submitted.

Oh, that's a review that someone submitted to Common Sense.

That's a review.

That's not Common Sense.

That's not a common final word.

Yeah.

A professional film critic wasn't like boring and cursing for no reason.

Cursing for the sake of it.

But you get a more complete plot synopsis uh from a user named Mission Impossible Tom Cruise,

who says, Parents need to know that the French Connection is a gritty but classic police drama directed by William Friedkin about two cops that are trying to stop a drug dealer that is shipping drugs from France to New York.

This classic is great acting, great screenplay, great directing, and overall, great cop film.

This is one of the best or the best cop films ever made.

It won five Academy Awards, including Best Picture.

And the

point is that Mission Impossible Tom Cruise has submitted that review is 11 years old.

Oh.

Whereas the person who just said boring is an adult.

So I think it shows that different age groups can appreciate things in different ways.

And maybe some kids, especially kids who know that the original taking of Pelum 123 was directed by Joseph Sargent, which I didn't know, as opposed to the remake that was directed, I think, by Tony Scott.

Hang on.

That was a Tony Scott joint.

In any case, anyone who knows that there are two versions of the taking of Pelum 123, I would say that Sam

is a budding, if not established, sineast there in Silver Spring, Maryland, Silver Screen, Maryland, they should call it.

Before I rule on this, Kurt, what was the first R-rated movie you ever saw?

Do you remember?

Oh, I do.

I was,

I don't know, between 10 and 12, I guess.

I saw, my mom took me to see Christine

because she loves, she loved horror.

She loved Stephen King.

She loved all of his Stephen King books.

And so she really, really, really, really wanted to see it.

Single mom, sure.

And so I ended up going with her.

Um, how old were you?

I, what, can we look up what year Christine came out?

I was either 10 or 12.

Um, 12, I feel like that's old enough.

Maybe I was eight.

I just remember being like, oh, I don't, I will, I don't want to do that again.

John 1983.

Oh, I was seven.

Okay.

Yeah, that.

So I was seven years old.

And, you know, Christine is a car that kills people.

And it was directed by John Carpenter, the master of terror himself.

And seven, of course, is roughly a second grader.

And yeah, yeah.

Seven, my daughter's about to be seven.

I would not bring her to see an R-rated movie.

At the same time, I am not a single parent.

And it is also not the early 80s where things were loosey-goosey.

Absolutely.

But look, I said that I've never seen The French Connection, and that was true as of yesterday.

And I thought, should I watch it?

And then I was like, well, I'm not going.

I mean, it's a big blind spot in my movie watching because it's a very famous movie, but I'm not going to let Sam and Silver Screen, an 11-year-old, give me homework.

I'm a grown-up.

I can't just see a movie because he's, Sam's making me.

But then I was up at three o'clock with Insomnia and I'm like, you know what, Sam?

You win.

I'm going to watch The French Connection on my phone in the middle of the night in bed the way it was meant to be seen.

And I'm glad that Sam made me watch this movie.

Have you seen it, Kurt?

No, Jesse.

Now I want to see it.

I've seen it.

It's a fantastic.

I would argue that the two common sense media reviews that we heard,

that it is one of the best cop films ever made and acclaimed, incredible performance from Gene Hackman and

one of those Oscars, and that it is boring and has swearing for swearing's sake are both true.

And they add up to one of my favorite movies.

I mean, I would say, yes, that's absolutely true.

I did not find it boring at all.

I find it riveting.

One of the reasons that I had avoided seeing it is that it is so famous for its car chase scene.

And it's not exactly a car chase scene.

It's a car chasing an elevated train.

But there's like this groundbreaking, exciting, dynamic, never before and brutal.

Like like that card takes a lot of damage.

It's, it's a really exciting scene, but it's so famous for that that I thought that's probably all that it was.

But frame by frame is one of the, I mean, William Friedkin did a good job directing that movie.

Frame by Frame is one of the most interestingly framed and paced films of all time.

It has a documentary style feel.

And Gene Hackman is so good in it.

And William Friedkin did not want to give him that role.

He wanted to go to Paul Newman, but it's like, no, like there's a reason why your dad suggested watching The Taking of Pelham 123 because these are two movies from the 70s set in New York, a New York that no longer exists, starring the most frumpiest meat men of all time.

Like,

Walter Mathow and

Gene Hackman wearing big, thick dad overcoats and dad gloves and dad hats in New York winter.

It's a real vibe.

And the fact of the matter is that like the Popeye Doyle, the character that Gene Hackman plays, is a monster.

He is in no way a good person.

And you should be warned, Sam, whenever you might see this film and Sam's Dad, that like it's full of excessively bad language and one word in particular that is particularly explosive within the first five minutes or so.

It is gritty.

It is seedy.

It is dark.

And the fact that you are watching this guy, Popeye Doyle, pursue this bad guy for no reason other than spite.

It's really fascinating.

It's a great, great movie.

So it's an incredible film, and I thank Sam for the prodding to finally see it.

But should I then return the favor and overrule Sam's dad and allow and order Sam to watch The French Connection?

Kurt, what do you think?

100%, yes.

Really?

I also feel like Sam's father has opened the door by agreeing to the very official judicial process that happens herein.

Right.

So then I believe, I think that we are given the right to order, not allow, but order Sam to watch it.

I think it's possible, if I can take what you said one step further.

I think it's possible Sam's dad wants to watch the French Connection with Sam, but just needs cover, like just needs someone to blame when Sam goes to school and starts using the F word.

He can say, well, listen, my favorite podcaster, Sam's favorite podcaster.

Yeah, I think that's what's going on.

When he starts dressing like Gene Ackman, yeah, just wearing a

bead

down and a big tweed tread.

Yeah.

What if Sam went as Popeye Doyle for Halloween?

It would be fingerless gloves.

Yeah, that would be incredible.

But, you know, look, you say you're almost 11, Sam.

So I guess that means you're 10.

I hope it doesn't mean you're seven.

And I would say, you know, around 11, 12, and certainly into 13, it is time

for kids to start experiencing culture that's a little bit above their pay grade.

It is okay.

It is appropriate for them to be a little bit disturbed and to not understand and

to seek understanding.

And that, I'm not saying that they shouldn't de facto just watch stuff that is R-rated or whatever, but I would say that if the if the piece of art is worth it, if it is a really good piece of art, the French Connection really is,

then I think it's okay.

In particular, I would say, Sam, you should really look at

how Friedkin frames the shots.

You should look at the scene where

the bad guy is having a gourmet meal in a restaurant, and you can see Gene Hackman staking him out through the window, and he's eating a piece of pizza and having coffee at the same time.

It's beautiful juxtaposition.

If you're the sine ass that I believe you are growing or have already become, Sam from Silver Screen, Maryland, you want to look at this movie, if only for film history and for film composition, because it's really spectacular.

And Sam's dad, I wish you good viewing.

Two thumbs up.

I want Sam's dad to know that

given this ruling, it's really important that Sam's dad watch this movie with Sam.

Yeah.

Not just to interpret the bad parts for Sam, the, you know, the slur that you mentioned, John, those sorts of things, and the sort of dark main character, but also just to give Sam a chance to like grow in his understanding of fiction.

Like, what a beautiful thing this movie is, incredible movie.

And he'll get so much more out of it if his his dad is there to share it with him.

Coming up around the corner, we've got juvenile versus juvenile justice.

Yes, that's right.

Sibling rivalries.

But first, let's take a quick break, hear from our partners.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org/slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

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Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

We are clearing the docket in our juvenile justice court this week with our friend Kurt Brownaller.

We got a couple cases from kids that they've brought against their own siblings, including this one from Aria in Pittsburgh.

I have a dispute with my younger brother, August.

I was born on September 28th, 2009.

He was born on July 20th, 2012.

That's two years and 10 months later.

But August is constantly claiming that I'm only two years older than him.

He doesn't actually believe this,

but he knows that it gets under my skin.

I'm asking you to order August to either round up and say that I'm three years older than him, or just say that I'm two years and 10 months older than him.

Thank you for your consideration.

I feel this one.

First of all, preliminary side ruling, August has the wrong name.

How could you be named August when you were born in July?

I mean, my kid's named August, born in September.

What?

The best laid plans of Mice and Men, John.

Because we wanted Gus.

His name is Gus.

Yeah, okay, that's fair.

That's fair.

Gus is great.

And you had eliminated Gustaver as a possibility.

Yeah.

And Gustav had been Gustav had been taken?

Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

Okay, well, then I take it back, August.

Your name is correct.

But, you know, Kurt, you are the parent of two children.

Are you indeed a sibling as well?

I'm both an only child and I have many siblings because my dad had many, many children.

Oh, God.

But I am an only child from my mom's side, and I grew up with my mom.

Okay.

So how are you reacting to what's going on between August and Arya?

It is a constant battle in our home as well because Gus is.

two and a half years almost to the day younger than Olive and Olive

first off, it started as confusion as it's like sometimes she's three years older than him and sometimes she's two years older than him.

Right.

And so we always say it's two years and it and it similarly annoys Olive as well.

And my approach to it has been, and then when Gus does insist on it, and in stuff like this, that the insistence is always a means of getting under the older one's skin.

And I say you are in control of whether or not this works.

You are allowing this to work.

You simply do not respond and it will stop.

But

that doesn't work.

That doesn't pay off.

That never works.

But I do want her to understand that she is in control of whether or not she gets annoyed by this.

Well, you know, one of the things that's true about parenting is that you can say the wisest things

and they will be ignored.

Yes.

And yet those words still got into their heads.

Right.

They're in there somewhere.

They're in there somewhere rattling around.

And someday a long distant echo will come back to Olive being like, oh yeah, I don't have to let this get to me.

It might be something completely different.

Maybe in Olive's adult life.

Maybe that's when that's when Olive will finally get the message.

I think there is a clear way to express this that is also accurate, and that is almost three years older.

Almost three years older.

Could I pitch two and five sixths?

Yeah, that rolls right off the tongue.

Absolutely.

Trippingly, as Shakespeare would say.

Arya, I am going to say and enter it into the record of Judge John Hodgman that you are essentially three years older.

I'll even go further than nearly, essentially.

three years older.

Your perception of reality is absolutely true and valid.

And I can drop the gavel on that, and I'm going to do it for you right now.

No, forever.

Judge John Hodgman dropped the gavel.

There is no discussion about it.

Just let it slide and

make sure that it doesn't get on your nerves.

And I don't think August is going to do it anymore, or at least less.

Don't get him the satisfaction, they say.

Here's something from Ruslan in Tucson, Arizona.

My name is Ruslan, and I am eight years old.

My sister, Katya, is 13.

I want her to stop stealing my limbs for warmth.

She does this because she's very cold and I am very warm.

I don't like it.

When she steals my arm, I can't use my arm.

She also grabs my neck with cold hands and I do not like that at all.

I would like a ruling that she stopped doing this.

Ruslan, thank you for writing that letter, which we have not edited in any way.

This is exactly how it is written.

Ruslan's sister, Katya, is hugging him or grabbing him or cuddling with him when he doesn't feel like it.

And occasionally, what we call Homer Simpsoning him.

Yeah, right.

Occasional cold hand strangling.

Like, it's, I'm going to say, first off,

it is not okay to wrap your hands around someone's neck.

Even if your hands are cold, not a good way to warm up your hands.

It's definitely a great way to violate that person's personal space and sense of safety so their body their choice their body their choice i don't know that i can and and i i think for stealing limbs as as well i think that katya's got to get a cold hands off policy enacted here don't you agree kurt

i mean it's i have to come back to my

my single guiding light my body my choice Katya, do keep your hands off people without getting full consent and happy happy affirmative consent.

And don't strangle your brother to warm up your hands.

That doesn't work.

Our guest is the great Kurt Brownaller, and we will have more juvenile court in just a moment.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show Let's Learn Everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper.

And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Let's take a quick break because I want to take this opportunity, John, to thank all of the folks who are members of Maximum Fun, whether you are a long-standing member, a brand new member, whether you joined during the max fun drive, boosted, upgraded, maintained your membership, you're totally our heroes and make this show possible.

And every year at Max Fun Drive time, I am reminded of that and I am filled with gratitude for that.

Obviously, I couldn't agree with Jesse more.

And I dare say, For me personally, this is one of the most fun Max Fun drives of all time.

We had such a great time meeting you all on our live streams and hearing from you about what MaxFun means to you is truly, truly moving to me personally.

And so I also join Jesse in saying thank you so much for making this possible.

I literally don't know what I would be doing without you.

So thanks.

We put together, John, a big Jordan Jesse Go live streaming show

during the Max Fun Drive.

It's still up there on the MaxFun YouTube channel.

So it's MaxFunHQ on YouTube.

And if you want to go watch, you can, including, John, live footage of me and Renee Colvert from the former Max Fun show, Can I Pet Your Dog?

Performing Suddenly Seymour from Little Shop of Horrors.

She plays Seymour.

I play Audrey.

So if you want to get a load of my gams, that's the place to go.

Yeah, that was an incredible moment, I have to say.

So, well,

here's to you, the listeners and the member supporters.

Thanks again for your support.

And I do have a couple of things coming up now that we turn our eyes to the future.

In June, June 29th, specifically, I will be returning to curate the comedy stage at the Solid Sound Festival at the Mass Mocha.

That's the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art in North Adams, Massachusetts.

What's Solid Sound, you say?

Well, it's only the Arts and Music Festival hosted every other year by none other than the band Wilco.

Jeff Tweedy leads the band, and he and the band bring not only their own sweet musical stylings to two big shows on Friday and Saturday night in a big old, beautiful field

that surrounds a former electrical parts factory turned into a large-scale installation art museum, but also there's all kinds of music and food and fun and delights and a comedy stage that's inside.

So, whether the rain or shining, you're going to see some comedy and I'm going to be hosting it.

Our friend Gene Gray is going to be there.

Our friend Dave Hill is going to be there.

The incredible Sydney Washington is going to be performing.

Brittany Carney is going to be performing and other surprises.

It's going to be a lot of fun.

Solid sound is what it's called, and you can find it by using your search engine.

Hey, that's up in western Massachusetts.

But what's happening in, I just want to say, I am so excited that someone has tricked Paul F.

Tompkins into going to Maine.

And I mention this because the Waldo Theater in Maine is this wonderful theater that's been refurbished and hosting incredible films and performing arts in Waldo Boro, Maine, which is not that far from Portland.

And they have an incredible lineup all the live-long day, but they're bringing Paul F.

Tomkins and his Variatopia Variety Show to Maine, and that's happening on April 30th.

And I really, really, really am encouraging.

I mean, the tickets are going fast.

It will sell out.

I really want Paul to get a real Maine welcome, which is to say, Icy stares and no reaction whatsoever.

No, I want him to get a fake Maine welcome of people who are really excited to see him there.

And he's going to be traveling all over the country.

As you know, he's a friend of the show.

And And I'm so excited that he's going to be going to Maine and also Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and also Boston and so many other places.

If you just Google Paul F.

Tompkins Variatopia, you'll see everywhere he's going.

But please go see Paul in Maine.

Jesse, what do you got going on?

I'll just say, John, that we have had some really incredible guests on Bullseye lately, just in the past couple of weeks.

Peter Dinklage, John Malkovich,

Jenny Slate,

the wonderful RB singer, Sir,

Senator and Basketball Hall of Famer Bill Bradley, this week, Paula Pell, one of the funniest people in the world, and Shabaka Hutchings, who's one of the greatest jazz musicians in the world right now, as far as I'm concerned.

So many cool episodes of Bullseye for you to listen to.

And coming right up around the corner, both Allison Bree

and Keta Takahashi, the creator of Katamari Damasi.

So.

Holy.

Well, yeah, that's, I mean, talk about S-tier level guests.

It's hit after hit of the most interestings and delightfuls over there on Bullseye.

And I'll tell you something.

We're just talking about Paul F.

Tompkins, our friend, one of my favorite comedians.

You know where I heard about him?

The show that became Bullseye.

Holy cow.

Did you know that?

The sound of Young America.

Yeah.

I mean,

I think that that's the first time I ever heard him interviewed.

And I'm like, I like this guy.

And you know what?

It turned out to be true.

Yeah.

Turns out he's a genius.

And I was like, you know what?

It turns out I like both of these guys.

Paul and Jesse Thorne, top interviewer in the world.

Bullseye.

Check it out.

Let's get back to the courtroom and Judge John Hodgman.

Welcome back to the juvenile court of Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Kurt Brownaller is here from the Bananas Podcast, our good pal.

We're clearing the docket of cases from children.

This one is from Moosa in Jupiter, Florida.

I want to have free control over all screens in the house.

But my mom says, no, the people involved are me, my mom, my stepdad, and my two cats.

I'm not sure how the two cats are involved.

Unless they're cats.

You know, have you seen the cats on Instagram who like love to watch cartoons?

There are a couple of different cats that the whole deal on their Instagram accounts is that they have a special little Chez Long for watching cartoons, a cat-sized Chez Long.

And they're constantly waking their person up all the time to get them to turn the cartoons on.

Oh, my God.

They love watching cartoons.

Spirited Away is a favorite, which is like, this is the greatest cat of all time.

I can barely get my cat to look at a piece of kibble.

Wait, they specifically like anime?

Yeah, I don't know what to say.

It's incredible.

I think that we should do a panel at the anime con in downtown Los Angeles.

Oh, just for cats?

Just for cats that love anime.

And then film that and make a fortune.

Some are into Dragon Ball, some are into Miyazaki.

Maybe that's why the two cats, maybe they're into watching television.

But we asked Musa his age, and he reported saying that he is 11 and one-sixths years old.

How old is your oldest again, Kurt?

About to be seven.

You got a screen policy in your house that's evolving or taking shape?

We have.

It's evolving because we just recently got into a thing called legends of learning

which is a i don't know how they haven't been sewed by pokemon but it's essentially pokemon go but you have to do math in order to battle right um

and because it's math we've kind of allowed it but that is usually like 10 to 20 minutes a day for that because they play it together and then

tv we've been trying to get rid of tv in the morning before school it takes a lot of work to reduce screen time.

It does.

It takes a lot of discipline on your part.

The screen is so easy, and that is its evil, right?

Right.

But I also don't necessarily consider family viewing of television to be like screen time.

And I know that a lot of people do because we're interacting.

We're all doing it together.

It's collective.

That's the way I grew up.

We would eat dinner and watch TV together.

What would you watch?

A-Team, The Hulk.

I love it when a plan comes together, by the way.

I know, me too.

Yeah, you are really watching the best television program.

Yes.

Just the creme.

They say peak TV was just a few, peak prestige television was just a few years ago.

They hadn't seen The Hulk.

The Hulk was so good.

When would you say that you had control of, quote, all screens in the house?

Obviously, very limited, very, you know,

very different definition of screens at the time.

Yeah.

But when did you have full control?

Probably pretty early on.

But the thing is, is that social media didn't exist.

And so now that social media, the evil, exists,

full control of screens should not be given

ever

for

until high school, like late high school.

I'm trying to push it off.

I have any gates.

I know.

That's the good luck, right?

I can tell myself to go jump in a lake.

That's the

John Hodges.

Talk about Big Brother over here.

Talk about Big Brother, 1984.

It's a, you know, Musa, I feel you like you're, you are, you are coming up.

We were talking about another 11-year-old or near 11-year-old, and it is not inappropriate developmentally for you to start seeing some stuff that's outside of your, you know, a little above your pay grade.

But the stuff that is online compared to the endless reruns of of Gilligan's Island and Three's company that I watched in the afternoons when I got home from school.

It's a lot more extreme.

And that's an issue.

And there is an entity.

I think that that is my main issue is that there is an entity engaging the brain.

Once you have an artificial intelligence that is geared towards your child's brain and trying to feed it things that it will, you know, drop dopamine, that I think is where we get into a problem.

So as long as you're not engaged with a neural net of any sort.

I mean, I have to say, like, it's really, really challenging.

I think that

full control of screens is something that's going to be part of your kids' lives before they are.

What did you say?

You wanted them to be 35?

Like high school.

I want at least high school.

Yeah.

Middle school, it's going to be an issue.

Is there middle school in LA?

We just send children straight to set.

Yeah, they have their tutors on set.

Exactly.

Like, it does, it seems like at this point, the rule of thumb tends to be

phones,

kids get phones in middle school.

Right or wrong.

I'm just saying that that is sort of where it's at.

Yeah.

And so it's not surprised that Musa is starting to feel like, if not now, at 11 and 1.6, Musa is going to have friends soon who have phones and have access to a lot of stuff.

And there is a lot of parental control software that you can use and et cetera, et cetera.

And I guess you can use that.

I mean, do what works for you.

But I think that the only and best thing to do is to offer a lot of modeling.

of behavior of what you watch and what you engage with

um

showing kids your kids stuff that is really good, like watching television together, as you do, Kurt.

Certain television is not merely not evil, but kind of essential.

Mr.

Rogers, Adventure Time, the French Connection, the French Connection 2.

Yeah.

And in terms of social media, you owe it to your kids to start talking now

before they even encounter it that there is stuff that they that will get to them.

Highly sexualized material, highly explicit material,

and a lot of

right-wing recruitment material,

if you can even call it the right wing.

There's a lot of bad stuff out there.

And

more so now than ever, I think you should be having a conversation, Musa, with your mom, your stepdad, and your two cats.

about what the algorithm is and what it's designed to do and what it's going to do to you.

I have have really strong screen time feelings, John, which is that I think all children should have the childhood experience that I had at my father's house.

My father was a single dad from when he had my mother divorced when I was a young kid till when he remarried when I was eight or nine.

So we had a good run from like four to eight of my dad being a single dad in an apartment.

And

my dad only cooked, he only knew how to cook pasta, steak and salad.

And we couldn't really afford steak.

So it it was just pasta, pasta, and salad.

And we had a,

this is in,

I want to be clear, the late 80s.

We had like maybe a 10 or 12 inch black and white television.

We would watch one episode of Cheers

and then we would watch that classic father-son bonding television program, the McNeil Lehr News Hour.

Or PBS News Hour, what we would watch together.

We could,

here's a pitch then, based based on that.

Do you remember the small seat booths at airports where you could go in, put a quarter inch and then watch black and white TV on a 10-inch screen?

Yes.

And bus stations as well.

And bus stations.

If we have one of those installed in the house, then

that child has total control over that screen.

I love this.

This is like when the Brady Bunch got a payphone.

Oh, Musa, you don't get any of these references.

And that's why I am also ordering your mom, stepdad, and two cats to get you a bus station chair with a coin-operated TV in it that will only show you episodes of the Brady Bunch so you can catch up.

Catch up and go back in time with our Gen X and elderly millennial ramblings.

Believe me, that's going to be the most exciting television you ever watched.

Here's something from Oliver.

Age nine in Brooklyn, New York City.

I really love graphic novels and I want my mom to read them to me.

My mom Emma says graphic novels aren't real literature and are too boring to read to me.

I would like the judge to rule that my mom will read me at least one chapter of a graphic novel before bed every week.

Thank you for your consideration.

Ah, I feel this one.

Go on, tell me.

Olive started reading very young and gravitated towards once she was done with like kid books, gravitated towards graphic novels because the

like the just the word count of a chapter book, I think was intimidating.

And now it is her preferred, although she has moved on to chapter books, it is her preferred

book, our graphic novels.

And I have decided to take it as a win,

even though

I would prefer her to be on chapter books.

And I keep explaining, like, with the graphic novel, it's one person's imagining of what it looks like and feels like.

Whereas with when the words, it's you like you get to actually, it's what you would imagine.

Right.

And so I've been trying to work with that, but I've just taken it as a win.

If she's reading a graphic novel, I'm fine with it.

Yeah, I think that that's exactly right, Kurt.

I mean, I understand the distinction that you're drawing because.

Reading a graphic novel is a very different kind of reading experience from reading prose in the same way that people come to the court of Judge John Hoshman all the time saying like i listened to this book on audiobooks but my friend dave says i didn't actually read it because i didn't read read it or whatever and that is true that that's a different a different way of experiencing the work

but one that is as equally valid as reading the prose and similarly i mean i think that yes

you are having the images drawn for you by the artist or the illustrator of that book, by the creator or the illustrator of that book.

But the compensation is you get to encounter some wonderful art,

you know, and obviously comic style storytelling is ancient, perhaps even older than prose.

And it's a very, very valid way to engage with story.

And I get it.

But that said,

it is, as a parent reading to a child, reading a comic book or a graphic novel is harder.

It is harder than reading a regular a regular old book because there's also large sections where it's like you say one word and then it's you just look it look it look it look it and you have to match pace it's very awkward yeah yeah

yeah yeah i mean it's it's it's a little bit more challenging not that i didn't do it and love and love to spend that time.

I mean, any amount of time that you're reading with your children

is infinitely valuable.

And uh and so you know my inclination is without further information to rule on the side of oliver

i have a sinking suspicion that oliver is not giving us the full story i have a sinking suspicion that oliver is saying i would like the novel the graphic novel to be read instead of my mom reading or my parent reading a regular chapter book, a chapter of a regular book to me.

That could be.

And as long as it's not instead of,

I'm okay with it.

He's only asking for one chapter a week.

A week?

I thought a night.

One chapter a week.

Oh, this is very reasonable.

This is a reasonable child.

There is, there is, as they say on Reddit, missing, missing reasons here.

We did get some more background.

So on the one hand, Oliver specifically wants Emma, his mom, to read

Dogman by Dave Pilkey.

You're familiar with this, Kurt Brownell.

Oh, yes.

He's an excellent author.

He has a very cool style, and he invented the patented flip and fight, I think it's called, which is very, very funny.

He invented, he wrote the Captain Underpants series as well.

He has my undying loyalty because many, many, many years ago, 20 years ago, when Jennifer and I, our producer, both worked at KZSC in Santa Cruz, California, my colleague Jordan Morris, with whom I now host Jordan Jesse Go and I, did a fundraising show for the station at the base of the UC Santa Cruz campus where the cars come in

with the remote equipment.

We brought out the remote equipment, blew the dust off of it, and recorded an entire episode of the show in public in our underpants.

And

when we did that, Mark Maron was one of the guests, a friend Mark Maron.

God bless him.

But when we did that, I had the idea to write a note to Dave Pilkey's publisher and say, hey, we're a community radio station.

Could we have some copies of Captain Underpants to give away as thank you gifts for our Underpants fundraiser?

That's great.

And they sent.

I'm talking about a cubic yard of Captain Underpants books.

And what I didn't tell them is like, this is a small community radio station.

We were hoping for maybe 15 people to give money or 20 people to give money.

And so there was just free Captain Underpants books books in the lobby of KZSE for three years after that.

Wow.

But I've always been so grateful they sent the most encouraging note and we're like so excited about it.

Oh, that's awesome.

And Dave Pilkey does wonderful, wonderful work for

kids with learning differences as well.

And, you know, his work is really well tuned to kids who, you know, there's a lot of kids who read graphic novels because parsing text is challenging for them.

Yeah, I was just going to say,

a friend of our show,

John Kimball Kimball of David Reese and John Kimball's Election Profit Makers, just was talking about he has a brain difference called aphantasia, which it makes it difficult for him to picture concepts in his mind, like to imagine.

So, you know, the part of the joy that we have of reading is creating a mental picture of the castle or the dragon or Popeye Doyle in a, you know.

Are you reading the novelization of the French Connection?

I am.

That's my next project.

Got it.

But some people maybe have difficulty, and the pictures are a real help in terms of them comprehending and enjoying the story.

But Captain Underpants, not uncontroversial due to the Underpants content.

Over here on Common Sense Media, Free in Faith 99, an adult, gave Dogman two stars.

Oh, come on.

They say the covers of these books make them seem innocent, fun, and a perfect book to get reading, but they're truly disappointing.

He just crosses the line as what would be deemed appropriate to enter the minds of young children.

Because of these books, my son thinks it's okay to write cuz C-U-Z instead of because.

And then Free and Faith goes on to say, Oh, you got trouble.

Because of these books, my son has quadrupled the amount of potty words he says.

But of course, Free and Faith writes, spells quadrupled quad R-O-O-P-L-E-D.

So there it is.

I'm closing the tab on you, Free and Faith.

You're wrong.

Yeah, Free and Faith.

It sounds like what Free and Faith needs is a boys' band.

Yeah.

You're wrong.

And Oliver, I think you're right.

But one thing we might not have considered is that Emma might have their own feelings about graphic novels and comics

that might be personal that might explain their

resistance to this.

And would it shed any light?

And I have permission to use Emma's last name.

Would it shed any light if I were to tell you the true fact that Emma's last name is Batman?

No.

That maybe there is a.

It's sort of a childhood drama issue.

And I don't mean that Emma's parents got murdered after they went to the opera.

It was the movies, Jesse.

It was Zorro.

Yeah.

I don't know whether Emma dealt with any Batman-related teasing on the playground that maybe made her turn her back on the world's greatest detective and all of his illustrated ilk.

But Dogman is not Batman, Emma.

And

comics are good.

So read them to your child, even though it's a little bit of a different experience as a reader.

I'll say this.

You know, my friend Jordan, with whom I did that on Advanced Broadcast and with whom I host the podcast, Jordan, Jesse Go, he's got a young adult graphic novel on the way called Youth Group.

Look at that.

There we go.

go i say pre-order that lock it and load it for when that kid hits 12 or 13

make it happen youth group by jordan morris wait how how old is oliver age nine yeah that's old enough to certainly to watch the french connection but yeah i was gonna say that's prime exorcist age

don't watch hey hey oliver don't watch the exorcist don't you'll do it it's not okay too much too scary too much too scary Can I just recommend Raina Telgemeier's

young adult graphic novels are fantastic smile guts what are the other ones we don't have to remember all the no drama they're they're really wonderful yeah and i like them most because the dad in them is a san francisco giants fan

my kids always run to me holding it look this dad is a giants fan too

okay that's it our docket is clear everybody's already pre-ordered youth group by jordan morris

and acquired Zita the Space Girl for their younger children.

Wonderful book.

And everyone's gone over to Kurt Brownoller's social media.

I mean, I'll say to Musa, you are allowed to check out Kurt Brownoller's social media.

Yep.

You can find it at kurtcomedy.com.

That's Kurt with a K, Comedy with a C.

Kurt is also one of the hosts of the very funny podcast, Bananas, that's about strange stories in the news, strange behaviors by persons as reported in the news.

Yes,

strange news and storytelling is how we say it.

I can't wait to listen.

Let me restate that.

It's one of my favorite podcasts.

I listen every week.

Judge John Hodgman created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

A big welcome to Natty Lopez, our new social media director.

Welcome.

And this is important, Kurt.

Okay.

If anyone out here is listening and they have dank Judge John Hodgman memes, we want these memes to be very dank.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, not mid, not medium dank.

No mid.

No mid-memes, dank memes.

Send them to Natty on our Instagram account at JudgeJohn Hodgman because

the meme age is going to be extraordinary.

I just want to say something to the listeners of Judge John Hodgman who visit us over at Instagram or Facebook or whatever it is.

Like the algorithm is not your friend.

The algorithm is not our friend, but you could help the algorithm be a little bit more friendly to the podcast you love by making sure that you like and send and share and do that kind of things because that will spread the stuff around, they tell me.

uh, and I appreciate all of you who are out there following us.

We have a lot of fun on in the comments over there in the Instagram page and everywhere we are, including TikTok and YouTube now.

So, if you if you're a fan of the show and you want people to discover it, help that really helps.

If you like and share and whatever it is they ask you to do, smash the buttons.

Can I offer something just as a starter, just as an idea?

When baby, like, be mindful of the work you leave for others, yeah, as a meme, yeah, just

a possible meme.

Just one possible meme.

One dank possible meme.

Not me.

Not me with a hot dog that isn't a sandwich.

No.

Right.

Our video editor is Daniel Spear.

Watch the videos on our YouTube channel.

Yeah.

Whole episodes up there in videos for free for you.

Our podcast is edited by A.J.

McKeon, our producer, Jennifer Marmer.

Photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

We're also on TikTok and YouTube at judgejohnhodgman pod.

Follow and subscribe to see our episodes and video-only content.

Special thanks this week, by the way.

We have beautiful brand new video equipment here in the studio that was set up this morning in a mad scramble by our colleagues Valerie, KT, and Bikram.

So, our thanks to all three of them for setting up this sweet new stuff.

It's great to see your faces, Kurt and Jesse.

It's a lot of fun, and I'm here too.

Our YouTube videos are looking better than ever.

Clink.

Hey, Jesse.

Yeah.

Do you remember when we spoke

a couple episodes ago with Abby and Tyler about top five lists?

Yeah, I sure do.

So a lot of people are, Kurt, we had these

nice young people

having a little dispute about top five lists.

And if I remember correctly, Abby was an actuary.

And we wanted some hot actuarial gossip from her office.

Hot actuary gossip.

And she told us some she spilled the tea.

We had to redact it.

We had to bleep it out because we didn't want anyone to get in trouble at her office.

And people have been begging us to know what's the actuary gossip and you know what?

We are people of our word and you will never know.

But it did get us thinking.

Why not some hot goss that you're willing to reveal?

Submit your cases about gossip.

Did your sister spill the beans to your parents about your secret tattoo?

Are you a celebrity who wants to take a celebrity gossip Instagram account to court?

You know I'm a messy judge who lives for drama.

Send me all of your gossip at maximumfund.org slash jjho.

And Judge Sean Hodgman, since we got natty on board right now,

I'm going to expand this request.

I'm going to ask if you're listening to Judge John Hodgman right now and you're an actuary, a certified public accountant,

or you work more broadly in the insurance industry

and reinsurance, I trust as well.

Exactly.

Right.

What's the hot Goss?

Send it to us on Facebook or on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman.

Send us the GOS.

We will anonymize it and share it with the world.

Perhaps you're on the show, perhaps on our social media accounts.

We want to know actuarial GOSS, certified public accountant GOSS.

I'm going to accept bookkeeper GOSS.

Oh, yeah.

And I'm also looking for insurance industry GOS.

Okay.

Anything regarding making sure that our numbers are in line and our lives are secure.

Send it all to Judge John Hodgman at Instagram and Facebook.

And obviously submit your cases, all cases, whatever they may be, big or small.

We hear them all maximumfund.org slash JJ H O.

What's the last thing we say on this podcast, Jesse?

I don't know.

What would you say it is?

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman.

Please keep that in.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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