Flush to Judgment

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Jesse, we have a corker of the case this week, do we not?

Indeed.

This week's case, flush to judgment.

Trish brings the case against her friend Marlowe.

Trish flushes soup down the toilet in order to get rid of it.

Marlowe wants to stop Trish from ever flushing food ever, ever, ever again, even if it's a liquid.

Trish says, this is the perfectly reasonable way to dispose of soup.

Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Soup first or noodles first?

No.

First, observe the whole bowl.

Appreciate its gestalt.

Savor the aromas.

Jewels of fat glittering on the surface.

Shinachiku roots shining.

Seaweed slowly sinking.

Spring onions floating.

Concentrate on the three pork slices.

They play the key role, but stay modestly hidden.

First, caress the surface with the chopstick tips.

Why?

To express affection.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Trish and Marlowe please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God or whatever.

Yes, yes, I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his jaw is wired open and he can only eat solid foods?

Yes, yes.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

How could I only eat solid foods if my jaw were wired open?

It's the opposite of having your jaw wired shut so for liquid diet right yeah yeah i can only eat pre-chewed solid foods i guess that's how it works john opposites that's right opposites are the when something is the reverse of the other thing right now i realize why i sleep in a nest yeah uh trish and marlo you may be seated for an immediate summary judgments of one because birds you know like bailiff jesse thorne in his cute little bailiff suit is going to feed me pre-chewed food in a wired open jaw like a bird like a bird that's what i mean that's why i sleep in a nest also it's very comfortable You should try it.

Sleep in a nest, everybody.

Meanwhile, Trisha and Marlowe, you may be seated for real this time for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favorites.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom?

We'll say, How about Marlowe?

Why don't you go first?

Oh boy.

Oh boy.

I'm going to go for

chicken soup.

for the teenage soul.

Chicken soup for the teenage soul.

I was thinking, well, I'm not saying that that's wrong yet.

I'm writing it down.

You can see I'm writing it down.

And I do have a thought about that later.

Trish, why don't you guess now?

I'm just going to still go with my pre-prepared answer because I think it's a good story that people should know.

And it's the Italian children's story, Streganona.

Streganona, writing another good one.

That's about, that's soup in that one, right?

It's actually spaghetti.

It's pasta.

It's pasta.

Spaghetti.

Big Anthony.

Big Anthony has a hard time managing that magic pasta pot.

I said I couldn't remember.

Okay, but it's got a pot.

It's got a pot in it.

Yeah.

And did you, and that was your pre-prepared answer?

Yes.

And you're the soup flusher?

Yes.

Don't say it like it's a bad thing.

Uh-huh.

Did you, did you think that maybe the obscure cultural reference might be about soup?

Yes.

Uh-huh.

And Streganona is about...

pasta.

That's correct.

All right.

Streganona, great story.

Interesting guess.

Chicken soup for the teenage soul.

I don't know.

Do people remember the chicken soup for the soul books, Jesse Thorne?

Is that still a thing that happens?

I think at this point, in most of America's thrift stores, those books are structural.

All guesses are wrong.

Streganona is a good story.

Chicken soup for the teenage soul can...

suck a matzah ball as far as I'm concerned.

But the answer was a quote from a movie that we referenced fairly recently on the podcast, a movie about the quest for perfection in a specific kind of noodle soup called ramen.

And that movie is called Tampopo, 1985.

Tampopo.

One of the best movies.

What a great movie that is.

It is a terrific movie that deserves more attention, and you should go watch it.

And then you'll just want to eat ramen for the rest of your life.

And why wouldn't you?

Because kind of the most, I mean, is there a more delicious food?

Honestly, honestly.

I mean, there are plenty of pizzas out there, but besides that, I have a hard time thinking of any.

It's hard to, there are only a few foods.

Trish and Marlowe, you should feel free to weigh in on this.

Like, there are only a few foods where I feel like I could eat that for the rest of my life.

And here they are.

Ramen, like to the exclusion of other foods, right?

If you had to pick, if you had to pick one, ramen,

breakfast sandwiches, pizza, barbecue, oh, tacos for you, right, Jesse?

Oh, love.

Well, I'm going to go with pupusas.

Papusas.

You got any to add?

I could do any one of those for the rest of my life, probably.

Yeah, I think mashed potatoes, scalloped potatoes.

Wow.

With the cheese.

I love fried chicken.

Right.

Oh my gosh.

And like queso, cheese dip.

You're telling me that if you could get

full nutrition out of queso,

You would be willing to just eat that with a spoon for the rest of your life?

Yeah, probably.

I mean, honestly, I'd probably be willing to bathe in it.

If that was the only food I could ever have for the rest of life, perfectly content.

Let the record show, Marlowe, fan of soft foods.

You could have your jaw wired open and enjoy all of those potential weapons.

But I'll tell you what, I throw the leftovers in the trash.

I can tell you.

Look, thank you for trying to get this podcast back on track.

Trish, we'll save your forever food for later.

That's a tease because it's time to hear the case.

Who comes seeking justice in this court?

That would be me.

Trish,

you're the soup flusher.

How is it that you're seeking justice against Marlowe?

You're flushing soup down the toilet.

It would seem to me that you are accused of a food crime here.

But what is the justice you seek?

I seek justice against Marlowe because this has been a year or more in the making of her teasing me about being wrong when I firmly believe that I am correct and that I would like her to have to flush all future soup because it's unreasonable that she's requesting that I change my pattern.

And now, as a result, I would like a verdict that she must change her pattern.

So let me understand this.

What kind of soups are you flushing down the toilet?

Think of a chicken noodle soup where you've got some left over because you weren't hungry enough to finish all of it.

I don't understand that.

concept, but okay.

I know that people do stop eating sometimes.

So chicken noodle soup.

Marla, when did you, when did you first discover that Trish was flushing her chicken noodle soup down the toilet?

Yeah.

So I'll give you the full story.

Our group of friends meets up usually every week on Wednesdays.

We hang out, we paint, like with watercolor.

Trish is a very talented visual artist.

And so we learn from her.

But another thing that we'll do is to bring a weird food item for everyone to try.

And that's called Tri-Club, and it's very fun.

And

so one time Trish brought a food to Tri-Club that was like some strange fruit that none of us had ever eaten before.

Trish, do you remember what fruit it was?

Yes, it was palm seeds in syrup.

Palm seeds?

I've never heard of that either.

Yeah, it's commonly sold in the international grocery stores.

I got it from our local Korean store.

And so these would be seeds or a fruit?

It's like a fruit, but also a seed.

It's very hard to describe.

It's kind of gelatinous.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Continue.

Yeah.

Marla.

So it wasn't bad.

It was fine.

But at the end of the night, Trish is like, does anybody want to take these home?

And everybody said no.

And Trish said no too.

So she's like, okay, I'll just get rid of them.

And mind you, we're standing in the kitchen at this moment in someone else's house, our mutual friend's house.

We're in the kitchen.

She's holding this food item with food waste in it because none of us want it.

So she starts walking away from the kitchen with this cake.

Right.

In order, she said, okay, I'm just going to throw it out and then exits the kitchen.

And she's walking down the hall.

And we're all like, where are you going?

All of Tri-Club is agog.

All of Tri-Club is confused.

Where are you going?

She goes, oh, I'm going to flush it down the toilet.

Wow.

Now all of Tri-Club is yelling.

Everyone.

Chaos.

Chaos yelling, berating her.

Her face is just surprised as if this is a normal, like she walked out of there like it was a normal thing to go flushed up down this toilet.

And apparently this was the first day that Trish learned that other people don't do that.

Wow.

Hang on.

I'm looking up.

I'm looking up these palm seeds and syrup.

Apparently they're good for a snack.

According to the internet, they are the immature fruits of the nipah palm or mangrove palm, which grow in soft mud and slow-moving tidal and river waters.

Where'd you discover these, Trish?

Had you had them before?

No, I had just seen them in YouTube videos where people were trying them.

And I saw them at the grocery store, and I'm like, I want to try them too.

So I brought them up.

You brought them to Tri-Club.

Yeah, Tri-Club.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

And now, now, wait a minute.

Did everyone in Tri-Club try it?

Or did they just look at it and say, get rid of it?

Everyone in Tri-Club almost always tries it, unless it's olives, and then they throw a fit.

Tri-Club doesn't like olives.

Everyone's got bad opinions in Tri-Club.

How many olives have you flushed down the toilet?

Oh, I eat them all every time.

Okay.

All right.

And so, how long ago was this, would you say?

Oh, easily over a year ago at this point.

All right.

Yeah.

We've been painting together for about two years.

And you paint together once a week.

And you, and this is Art Night.

Tri-Club at Art Night.

Yes.

Are there any other notable clubs or associations going on in this event?

Like,

this did also a meeting of the Lady Lions subgroupings and

the Red Hat Society.

It sounds like it sounds like a pop-up restaurant, like Tri-Club at Art Night, a Trish and Marlowe concept.

You know what restaurants are called now.

Have you heard of Tri-Club at Art Night, a Trish and Marlowe concept?

It's my favorite softball team.

Trish, you sent in a photo of

Art Club.

There are one, two, three, four, five of you, including you and Marlowe there.

These photos obviously will be available on our Judge John Hodgman Instagram page, as well as our show page at maximumfund.org, our headquarters, as well as all of our social medias.

And I see here one, two, three, four, five of you.

Four of you are holding up.

looks like watercolors or some other kind of painting of beautiful little trees.

Marlo, you get extra credit because you also painted a bushel of apples, it looks like.

And Trish, you're standing in the background with nothing except two thumbs up.

I was just wondering, why didn't you paint a tree or a bushel of apples?

Yeah, weren't you working on something?

Yeah, I had a big art project I was doing ahead of a deadline.

And so everyone else painted their things and I was painting for my deadline.

Oh, are you an artist by trade?

No, actually,

I have a pretty technical role, but I paint in my free time and I take it very seriously.

Very nice.

I also enjoy in this photo the profound foregrounding of a screw-top bottle of wine.

I thought about trying to remove it, but there's the AI for removing stuff in Adobe is very iffy.

So I did not.

No, I mean, it's just, it's, you have a remarkable depth of field that I can see all of your faces behind this big bottle of wine.

But I can imagine that enjoying a glass of wine is part of

Tri-Club at Art Group, Art Night.

I mean, I would argue that it's integral.

Integral wine at Tri-Club at Art Night.

Yeah.

Okay.

So getting back to the case at hand or down the toilet, as it will,

Trish,

how did you feel when all of Tri-Club was like, that's disgusting?

And so are you?

I just.

That's what they say.

It says here that that's what they said.

I realize this is an audio format.

And so me giving the death stare does not help.

That is what we said.

Well, we're on video now, too check us out on youtube at judge john hodgman pod on youtube um you can definitely see me quail in the in the in the deadlights of your death stare

so i cannot describe how viscerally that i just feel like they're wrong when they were getting so upset about me walking to someone else's toilet to flush this extra fruit i just like it feels so innate to who i am and how i do chores that it just feels like they're all wrong like it's just such a snap thing for me.

I know Marlo's wrong when she teases me every single time.

How does she tease you every single time?

What does she say?

She's a flusher.

No, it's little things like her buying me a can of soup for my Christmas gift.

It was a tree ornament.

Or every time I say something that she even moderately disagrees with me, she will say, oh, it's like your soup opinion.

Like she's just constantly bringing it up as an example of how wrong i am and i just feel like she's wrong and now you are simmering with rage as it were basically yes i just really want her to have to flush soup

even the words i just want her to flush soup sounds gross trish don't you hear what you're saying To me, the term flush does not insinuate something disgusting.

It is just a part of doing a chore.

Okay.

Like when you flush your countertops after cooking or flush your kitchen floors, you know, once a week?

Precisely.

Right.

Like, how often do you flush your bed sheets?

I try to flush them about once a week, but I'll go by with two weeks because I want to conserve water.

You know what I mean?

I tend to exclude the toilet from not toilet-related chores.

You two are not roommates, right?

No.

No.

How do you know each other?

I think we met through friends of friends.

Um, so one of the ladies that comes to Art Night, she used to throw a lot of game nights at her house, sure.

And my partner and I just moved into the city.

So, and so you're all just having art nights and tri-clubs and wine nights in the city.

And the city in this case is Atlanta, Georgia.

It is.

You have fun down there.

We do.

It looks like everything is fun.

It is.

It's great.

And so, a year ago, you saw Trish flush the palm seeds down the toilet.

But how long ago, how long have you been friends together?

It was pretty deep into our friendship that's

two or three years now.

Yeah.

That we've been friends.

But we knew each other well.

If Trish was still a stranger and that happened, I definitely wouldn't have berated her

as much.

I guess my question is, if Trish was still a stranger when she flushed the palm seeds, would you have deepened your relationship at all with her?

Or would you even said, like,

honestly, that person's a soup flusher, and I don't want to have anything to do with her.

That is such a good question.

I think I would have to give it some thought.

I think I would need to sit with it for a little bit.

I think I probably would have left and been like, wow.

Look, you know, I'm an expert on palm seeds and syrup because I looked at the internet for about seven seconds.

So you can take it on authority when I say palm seeds and syrup are not soup.

How did you learn that Trish was also flushing soup?

Yeah.

So when she came under attack

for the palm seeds and syrup, she said, you guys don't ever flush food down the toilet.

And we're all like, no, of course we don't do that.

We have sinks and most of us have garbage disposals right now.

And she goes, oh, no, yeah, I flush like all soups or liquid food waste.

And so then it was an uproar again.

We're yelling, everyone's yelling, everyone's shaming Trish.

My mom was living with me at the time.

She was living with me just briefly.

And then when I went home, I was recording a video of me flushing it because they wouldn't let me flush it at my friend's house.

And I'm like, whatever, I'll take it home and I'll flush it there.

So I did.

Let me just understand.

Yeah.

You were going to flush the palm seeds and syrup.

Tri-Club was aghast and said no.

So you said, I'll show you and literally show you.

And you took the extra palm seeds home to video flushing them down the toilet at home to send them to the group.

Yes.

Out of spite.

Correct.

As part of, as part of spite night.

Spite night and try club at our night.

I like that.

I feel like that would be very natural for our group to have spite night.

Yeah.

I think that might be my ruling right there.

Okay.

So you get home, you get home with the palm seeds and you're going to show them what for.

Yes.

And my mom was living with me at the time.

And so I was able to like get her to tell me if she would flush things because I had to get this from somewhere.

It didn't just happen.

That was going to be my next question.

What's wrong with your mom?

My mom was like, yeah, flushing soup is a normal thing.

And so like every time I've had to refer to it, flushing soup, not flushing liquid waste.

It's a lot easier to just say flushing soup.

So just to get back to your original question.

And so what other things do you flush besides soup then?

If soup is a catch-all term?

Leftover cereal, milk that's gone bad.

Whoa.

Any juice in the fridge that's extended over two weeks, just feels feels a little uncomfortable to drink, so that goes in the toilet as well.

Do you not have a sink?

I do have a sink.

Is the toilet closer to the kitchen than the sink?

Is your juice chunky?

No.

Okay.

Why don't you pour the juice and the spoiled milk down the drain?

I can't tell you how naturally it comes to me to just walk to the bathroom.

And my house isn't that big.

It doesn't take that much effort to go.

Force of habit is what you're saying.

Yeah, that's a nice way of putting it.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

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Let them know, Jesse and John sent you.

I have many questions.

I have to find a, I just have to ask them.

Juice that you don't like anymore.

Milk.

Yeah, spoiled milk, cereal.

Leftover cereal.

Do you have a garbage disposal in your sink?

Yes or no?

Yes, Your Honor.

Oh, well, all right.

And

then soup, obviously.

Anything that sort of moves in the liquid or colloidal area is going to that toilet.

Very specifically, it has to be able to flow on its own for it to be considered for the toilet.

But I cannot tell you how subconscious this decision is.

Like it is not like I have actively thought to myself, hmm, should this go in the toilet?

And yet you did create a soup disposal decision tree.

That is correct.

That you shared with the court.

This is also in evidence, submitted by you, Trish.

Yes.

It says prepared by Trish January 24, 2024.

Very official.

And this is your attempt to break down what is a a normally subconscious automatic process of judgment?

That's correct.

All right.

I realize that this now, after going through all of this with my friends, does not come as naturally for some people.

And I thought you would need the guided illustration.

Well, I appreciate it because I'm, you know, there, each of the things that you do flush

are different sort of cases of whether or not it's okay to flush.

In my mind, I mean, I won't reveal my judgment yet, but some of those things are okay to flush and some of those things are not okay to flush.

And some of them are like, why would you bother flushing?

But setting that aside, this is a picture of your brain, Trish, that you have submitted to us.

Number one thing you determine is soup viscosity.

Does it run on its own or does it require, quote, prodding?

If it requires prodding, immediately goes in the trash, right?

Correct.

Yes.

How do you prod a soup?

Like, what, how do you determine soup proddability?

Yes, I have a couple examples.

So my grandmother, I grew up with my grandmother living in my home, and she would very commonly make stew and chili, and these were both very thick.

You could not slide them out of the bowl on their own.

You would need to use like the spoon to push them.

Are you trying to tell Judge John Hodgman the difference between a soup and chili?

No, I'm just saying that these are things that can be done.

That was the subject of the very first.

segment, the very debut of Judge John Hodgman.

No, I thought the debut is about those folks that wanted to like wash their hands in a certain sink with a certain soap.

That was the first episode of Judge John Hodgman proper, but the show began as a segment on a little podcast called, Was It Called, Jesse?

Jordan Jesse Go, baby.

And the very first segment was, is chili a soup?

Ah.

And I said, it is not, as you well know, and as you have pointed out, it's, you can prod it.

It's not a soup.

Yeah, exactly.

Your honor, your honor, I just want to call to attention one

I'll allow it.

I've heard reference to this thought tree, this algorithm that she uses.

Number one is, if you'll notice, everything ends up flushed at the end.

The other thing is...

We haven't done a t-shirt for a while, but everything ends up flushed

might be a candidate for some merch.

I would be honored.

The other thing is, every time I've heard heard reference to the rules about flushing, it's usually quickly followed with Trish saying, oh, but I didn't follow the rules last time.

So she's giving you this flow sheet, but I think,

you know, now that we're sworn in here, and I would just remind Trish that she is under oath.

How often are you breaking the rules of the flow sheet?

I don't have a number for you.

Why don't you contemplate that just so that people understand the rules?

Because we've, so far, we've only gotten gotten to if the soup requires prodding, it goes in the trash.

If it runs on its own, which is

also a fairly disgusting way to think of things,

giving soup an agency that I don't want it to have.

No one wants autonomous soups.

If it runs on its own, first of all, catch it and then determine its meat content.

If it is 50% or more meat, you remove the meat with a spoon and then flush it.

If it is less than 50%,

you determine fat content at room temperature.

So that means you're letting the soup come cool completely.

And if it has visible fat, you scrape the fat layer and then flush it.

No visible fat, then it gets flushed.

The only soup that doesn't get flushed is prodible soup.

Otherwise, you're doing some manipulations before you flush the soup.

Is that correct, Trish?

Yes, there are some edge cases cases present.

I just want to address that for anyone who actually sees this flowchart.

I'm aware.

Everyone's going to see the flowchart.

Okay.

Well, I just need them to know.

That's the front part of the t-shirt.

That's what's on the front of the t-shirt is the flowchart.

On the back, it says everything flushes in the end.

Why do you think that we started a YouTube channel?

We started a YouTube channel so we could show the flowchart.

There were at least six more steps in the original version and recurrence.

So I just had to like narrow it down.

How dare you withhold from me complexity

when your decision is kind of

bothersome to have to go through all that on an audio format.

Well, I understand.

You're not wrong, Trish.

You're not wrong.

But

I do initially order you to produce the full first draft of the flowchart.

which is now available on our show page and our Instagram.

And we're going to show it.

I can't see it now, but when this posts, it's going to be on YouTube right now.

Let's take a look at it.

Okay, I can only imagine that in the future I am astonished.

Thank you for sharing that.

But in the meantime, Trish, I interrupted you.

You were about to say something.

No, just to get back to your point, everything does end up in the toilet as long as it doesn't require prodding.

So you're struggling to find issues with my argument because there are no issues.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm I'm Marshall.

I'm making a, I'm trying to quickly make a mental flowchart of all of my arguments.

I just want to bring us back to

reality here.

This is a flow sheet about putting food in the toilet still.

And it's just

not where it goes.

That's not where it goes.

You object on principle.

Yes.

Also, you know, her plumbing.

Who knows what's going on down there?

Well, I do have that question, Trish.

Have you experienced plumbing problems?

Never once.

Never once.

In my entire lifetime of flushing soup.

Never once had an issue with it.

And you've been doing this since you were but a child.

Correct.

Do you remember the first time you ever flushed soup?

It was cereal.

And yes, I do remember

because I was a child and I asked my mom, where does this go?

And she said, in the toilet.

And I went to the toilet and I thought it was so charming.

So I just did it for the rest of my life.

Cereal soup?

That is a question that we dare not broach.

Let me get back to this flowchart for a second.

So you're telling me that if, and is this always meat content or is it just chunks?

Meat content, because vegetables can go down the toilet just fine.

No, they can't.

Sorry, I'm laughing at your face.

If they could, that pea soup would be going down.

I think that you're having a bias in judging judging this case, sir.

What would be my bias?

That you don't want me to flush soup.

Can I tell you something right now, Trish?

Yes.

I shouldn't have to establish my impartiality in this situation,

but you have leveled a meaningful accusation.

Sorry.

And

I will say this.

I got a little spicy.

Well, I hold you in contempt.

Okay.

But just so you know where I'm coming from, I will say this.

You can flush juice down the toilet all the live long day.

I don't care.

I don't know why you would do it

because you have a functional sink.

But there is no problem with regard to flushing pure liquids down the toilet.

The reason I hesitated with

regard to milk is

the fat content.

Now, you have pointed out in your flowchart that if there is, if your soup has cooled and fat has congealed at the top that you will scrape off that fat and put it in the garbage as you well should do because you know you should not be dumping fat down your plumbing that's correct so i would love to interject here and add a level of detail even even to the concept of juice going down the toilet trish is on septic she is not whoa in the city plumbing so even with juice i mean what are the implications of pouring sugar into a septic system much less fat vegetables and cereal or whatever else food she's putting in there well i i'll take i'll i'll take that question first as someone who has been the proud i won't say owner but but companion of a septic system

because it's really really it's it's it has a life of its own But I'll tell you, you still shouldn't be putting grease down your septic system because that will cause, it will congeal and cause blockage.

And I know about the fat bird because I did do some intense research, which is I went to one plumbing website

which had a page called, Can You Flush Food Down the Toilet?

And I decided this person was an expert because they are a plumbing and heating company in New Orleans, Louisiana.

The proprietor is named Al Bourgeois.

And he sounds like an expert to me.

And he was like, do not flush any oils or fats down down the toilet because, or frankly, put them down your drain, even your, even your garbage disposal.

Don't even put them down your pants.

Don't, and that's excuse me, Al Bougewa says that's where you should put them.

Oh, okay.

But he sounds like a fun guy.

Yeah, it's fun.

Well, New Orleans, let the good times roll.

Maybe having to walk to the bathroom and and flushing, you know, as an added couple of steps onto the food disposal process.

We could just add a couple more steps and you can just bury it in the yard.

Do you live in a, in a fairly, in a rural community?

Or,

or is that why you're on septic?

No.

I live in an old 1950s ranch-style house in a suburb of Atlanta called Decatur, and it's pretty, uh,

pretty urban, I would say.

But you're just not on the sewer.

I'm just not on the city sewer because it's an old house.

Got it.

Marla, you mentioned that Trish reports that even though she's created this flowchart, she sometimes doesn't follow it.

And she flushes her own rules down the toilet from time to time.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

What kind of transgressions have you made, Trish?

How, what rules have you broken in the flushing department?

I don't recall ever breaking a rule, so therefore there's been no rule breaking.

I would remind you that you're under oath.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, sometimes I have...

I don't want to admit this under oath.

Sometimes I have paint water.

I won't flush turpentine.

I know better.

But sometimes I got acrylic paint water.

It's going to go down the sink when you're washing your brushes anyways.

So if I've got a lot of really ugly paint water, I'll just toss it down the toilet.

What were the last three

soups that you flushed?

Oh, I was sick recently.

And they all followed the rules because they were all Progresso cans that I couldn't finish because I was sick.

What were the, what I don't mind, I don't mind buzz marketing progresso.

They're pretty good.

What were your, that's, they're my brand of split pea.

What were the ones?

One of them was split pea.

One of them was

you said that you couldn't flush split pea.

It was problematic.

This is an exciting show of Matlock.

They're split pea.

If you've had it, you know it's runny.

Progresso split pea is in a category of its own.

It runs on its own.

It runs on its own.

Just more and more stipulations and conditions so you can just weasel your little soup into the toilet.

That's correct.

The other one was creamy chicken noodle, and then the other one was the one that was like chicken dumpling.

Creamy chicken noodle didn't have any fat to remove, then?

No, and it was room temperature.

I think the emulsification of the fat in the dairy is such that the fat would not separate out.

I mean, when you're talking about a chowder of any kind

or a cream of mushroom or a cream of chicken,

those can be flushed.

I would okay.

So, Marlow, aside from your innate sense of disgust, you have three particular critiques, one of which involving the flowchart, which the more I say flowchart in this context, the more nauseated I get.

What were some, what were what are the other two points that you wanted to raise about this practice?

Yeah.

So, I mean, I think any normal, sane human being knows that it's disgusting to flush food down the toilet.

But just in case, you know.

That's what we're trying to establish.

So I just, I just want to call your attention.

Wait, is this a mental competency hearing?

It could turn into that, Jesse.

Can I just say hashtag free Brittany?

No, I just, I want to bring attention to the sound that it probably makes to plop suit.

into the toilet.

I mean, you, you've, you very skillfully deployed the word plop.

here.

I think that counts as an onomatopoeia, and it grossed me out.

So I hear you, but you haven't, I hear you, but you haven't heard it.

You're presuming that there is a bad sound.

I am.

Are you responding to a sound that you have uncontrollably playing in your mind when you consider the possibility of this happening?

Yeah, I can hear it really clearly in my brain.

What kind of sound is it?

I guess we didn't give the listener a warning there.

Yeah.

I think the warning was, I said, what kind of sound is it?

I don't think that's going to stop those letter writers from writing those letters.

It wasn't going to be a beautiful horn solo, Judge Josh.

I'll tell you what, I'm going to give the listeners a real big warning now because

I'm going to ask Marlow to make that sound more loudly and longer

because I couldn't quite get it.

And if you don't want to hear the sound of Marlowe imitating soup plopping into

the toilet bowl, you might want to fast-forward five or five seconds, not more than five.

Well, I don't know how long can you keep it up, Marlowe?

I don't know.

I don't know if I can do it louder.

I'm going to try.

I'm going to count down so the people will know when to pause or whatever.

Three, two,

plop.

Gross.

I may never eat soup,

so gross.

But again, that's imaginary.

That said, Trish, does it sound like that when you're flushing soup down the toilet?

I have never once thought about how it sounded when I've been flushing soup.

But you've heard it.

I've heard it.

Well, you have the sense when you're flushing soup down the toilet to wear those giant airport tarmac guy

headphones over your ears.

It's also the case that, you know, and I don't want to be, I mean, this is, this is for the kids in the audience.

It's not just soup that plops in the toilet.

I didn't want to say it.

I know.

And yet, you know, there is that saying of how he thinks his soup doesn't stink, if you know what I mean.

There is a perception bias when you're making the sound and the smell that you don't really hear it or smell it the way someone else is, or if you're imagining it at art night or whatever.

And then what was your other concern?

There was a second concern besides noise.

Oh, big one.

Splashback.

Please don't say big one.

That's another thing I would like to.

I would just like to take off the board.

Take it off the vocab.

Important one.

Okay.

Splashback.

Splashback.

Because if you're pouring soup, it's going to like liquid, it bounces

like

equidistant to however.

far away from the water line it's going to at least go like that high

i don't know enough about liquid physics but i think that that is a threat I mean Trish what's the average height from which you are plopping your soup I'd make the effort to go closer to the toilet bowl when I'm flushing my soup okay again but why

I mean don't you like

well no I understand

it's like when you're boiling pasta you want to get it close to the boiling water so that you don't burn yourself of course I understand that but again it's like you have a sink.

Right.

I mean, when you're at the point where it's like, I need to get really close to this toilet bowl so as to not splash soup back up in my face.

That could be a moment where you're like, maybe my mom was wrong.

I don't know.

That's a fair, fair judgment.

Yeah.

But it still comes naturally to me to walk to the toilet and do my flushing routine.

It's not a big deal.

Have you ever violated your own rules for soup disposal?

I have flushed split pea soup down my toilet.

After plopping that soup down the toilet, how can you look at yourself in the bathroom mirror knowing that you violated your own rule?

Funnily, just it's easy.

I just look at myself and I'm like,

you did the thing that you normally do.

That is a great way to start the day.

Marlo,

how is this in any universe your business?

It's not your septic system.

It's not your house.

It's not your rules, right?

I mean, how does this affect you such that you even have standing to bring this case against your friend Trish?

Well, I just, you know,

in the index incident of which we're all talking, right?

She was going to flush food down the toilet and it was not her house.

Right.

It was our friend's house.

And did she get it?

Did she get it down there or did you all like grab her and wrestle her to the ground before she could flush it down the toilet?

No, yeah, she never made it.

She never made it.

We shamed her so much.

I mean,

how did you feel when you were shamed in that way, Trish?

It's not uncommon that my friends will find a way to shame each other about silly topics.

I felt kind of well loved by my friends,

which is why when I was writing out this case, that are these healthy relationships?

We actually really are.

I feel when my friends shame, when mommy and daddy shame me, I know they love me.

All the teasing.

But no, when I was writing out this case, the specific ask isn't that they stop teasing me about it because I like it when they tease me.

It shows me that they love me and it's funny.

But yeah, your specific ask is not that they stop teasing.

It's that they start flushing.

Precisely.

Thank you.

It says here, your ideal ruling would be for Marlowe to have to flush soup down her toilet.

Every time.

And why?

Moving forward.

Every time.

She's on city plumbing.

Like, why not?

Oh, she can really live it up now.

If she was on the sewer system, she'd be flushing meat.

She'd be flushing vegetables, baby alligators.

Judge Hodgman, can I ask you a question?

You may.

You live in New York City.

That's true.

Brooklyn, New York City.

All right.

Getting a little too precise, but okay.

As a West Coaster, I was shocked to learn one day from, I believe, our mutual friend Kurt Anderson, the host of the former public radio program Studio 360,

that in New York, because of sewer laws, almost no one has a garbage disposal.

Do you have a garbage disposal?

So for many years, it was understood that garbage disposals were not to be allowed in Manhattan in particular.

And we did not have one when I lived in Manhattan.

We do have one now.

in Brooklyn.

And I believe that that ended up being a literal urban myth.

Now I think that that no one cares.

I don't know why.

Maybe there's been an improvement in disposal technology or whatever, but I definitely use a garbage disposal in Brooklyn for sure.

But, Jesse, that raises a good point.

Trish and Marlow, do you have garbage disposals?

You're never going to believe this answer.

I will decide.

I do have a garbage disposal.

Trish has a garbage disposal.

I do not.

Wow.

And she's quite a reversal.

Yeah.

And she's the one flushing food.

And can you imagine she's the one.

So, Marlow, you have the, I'm going to say it, moral fortitude to pick up the little strainer thing when it's full of tiny pieces of chicken and little noodles

and bring it to your trash can?

I do.

What a hero.

I know.

Under what circumstance, Trish, even if I were to find in your favor and say, go for it, flush your soups,

what possible reason would I have to order Marlow to do something that she finds disgusting?

Spite.

Fair.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go look up the laws of garbage disposals in New York City so I can know what I'm talking about by the time I come back and render my verdict.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Trish, how are you feeling about your chances right now?

To get the verdict that I actually want, very low.

I'm glad that you said that with the appropriate amount of shame.

Marlo.

I'm hopeful.

It would be really great if I could just watch Marlowe just once flush soup down the toilet.

But I recognize and I'm realistic.

Marlo, how are you feeling?

I feel pretty confident.

I am concerned about the judge's comment.

that it's okay to put juice down.

It makes me feel like there's some compromise in which I'm going to have to flush something that doesn't go in the bathroom.

But I think overall, I think my chances are good.

I've made the arguments that I could make.

You know, it's up to Judge John Hodgman now.

I really appreciate your viscosity distinctions here.

You're like, juice, I don't know.

Kern's nectar, definitely not.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment.

You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no.

Nope, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Long.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Well, I was doing a little research in my chambers, and I have some more specific information for you.

In fact, Kurt Anderson was correct, and it was not an urban myth.

Garbage disposals were banned in New York City across all five boroughs until 1997.

Trish and Marlowe, you weren't even born yet, I betcha.

I do remember the day.

I do remember the day now that it's refreshed in my memory in 1997 when they're like, Yeah, you're gonna have garbage disposals now.

Everyone in New York had a disposal party.

It was terrific.

We were all so excited.

I also went back to revisit that famous website from the plumber in New Orleans, Al Bourgeois.

And Al Bourgeois's website specifically says which foods not to flush as a list.

And it says, short answer, all foods.

So, why should I go against Al Bourgeois?

Well, for one thing, this is a point of connection between Trish and her mom.

It is a family tradition that she shares.

And I appreciate, perhaps more than some,

the feeling of initial transgressive thrill when your mom instructed you to flush your cereal down the toilet.

That's an exciting thing to do as a child.

I bet it still feels great to do it it does but i can tell you this right now

i understand this temptation because

those of you who read vacation land my book which is called vacation land is available wherever you get books

when my wife was a whole human being in her own right and i took over a home in western massachusetts that not only had a septic system just like you've got trish but also a garbage disposal Because we've been living in New York.

We hadn't had one for a long time.

We were very excited about it.

And indeed, we flushed a whole bunch of cereal.

Well, we didn't flush it.

We disposaled a whole bunch of cereal down the sink.

And this was a catastrophic plumbing failure because all that cereal just swelled up and became a cereal tumor in the pipes.

And we had to have a plumber come and cut it out.

And he had to tell us, cut it out.

And he also told us, you shouldn't have a garbage disposal at all here

if you have a septic system.

And we're like, why?

He said, because you're going to put the wrong stuff down.

You're going to be tempted to put the wrong stuff into your septic system.

Now, I bet there are going to be a lot of people who are going to be angry, Trish, that you suggested that if you were on City Sewer, you might just be flushing meat down the toilet willy-nilly.

But you're not on the City Sewer.

So please don't send me those letters, everybody.

That is something that I am willing to leave to ambiguity at this point.

But what is true is that you're on a septic system.

And maybe you shouldn't have a garbage disposal.

And maybe you aren't entitled to any drains at all.

Because when you go to the EPA, that's the environmental protection agency.gov.

And I know how you feel about the nanny state, Trish.

I know you and your mom are like, you can't tell me not to flush cereal down my toilet.

I'll flush down all the incandescent light bulbs I want.

Exactly.

They do have a list that is more specific than Al Bourgeois

in terms of what you should not be flushing down the septic system.

And that includes cooking, grease, and oil, which you are trying to mitigate, non-flushable wipes, photographic solutions,

feminine hygiene products, condoms, dental floss, diapers, cigarette butts, coffee grounds, cat litter, paper towels, pharmaceuticals, and household chemicals like gasoline, oils, pesticides, antifreeze, and paint.

These are all the things that should not be going into your septic system, according to the EPA,

via any hole in your house, garbage disposal or not.

And the reason for this, aside from the fact that Cheerios will clog up your pipes, is that your septic system

is a living ecosystem that has live organisms in it that are digesting the things that you have digested.

and are breaking them down to go out into your leech field.

And according to the epa.gov,

various things that you might pour down the drain, whichever way it goes particularly toxins and other things can kill these organisms and harm your septic system so that's like chemical drain openers oil-based paint solvents or large volumes of toxic cleaners um and and then it recommends also get rid of your garbage disposal which will reduce the amount of fats grease and solids that enter your septic tank and could clog the drain field According to the EPA, like it will reduce your temptation to put this stuff into your septic system.

Your septic system is a sensitive stomach.

Basically, my verdict is this: I think you should be concerned about what you're actually sending down your pipes because you're on a septic system.

And as someone who has dealt with septic emergencies in the past, both actual and metaphoric,

it's not something you want to have happen.

But

it's your septic system,

it's your risk, it's your property,

your, it's your, it's your prerogative

to flush soup down.

And I absolutely agree with Marlow

that

thinking about you flushing pea soup down your toilet

is a highly charged image that I wish I didn't have in my head.

But Marlowe, that's your problem.

None of this is your business.

Everything that happens in in Trish's home is Trish's business.

And the fact that it causes you to think about stuff and to

think about sounds and to replicate sounds that are gross,

that you have to use discipline there.

But I urge you as

a septic system owner to do, to take your flowchart and show it to a septic professional and make sure that this is all copaceptic.

All right, I'll see myself out.

That was not okay.

I'm seeing myself out for saying I'll see myself out too.

That's another crime.

A pun and a cliche.

Oh, and there I accidentally triggered balloons because I counted to two using a Macintosh computer.

That happened.

In any case,

I don't want your septic system to have problems, but I do think your flowchart, when when you follow it and don't just blow it off because you want to prod some soup down for fun, when you follow your routine, I think that it's probably okay.

If I were you, I would check with a septic professional.

Um, and then Marlo, if I were you, I'd do my very best to flush the memory of all this down the toilet of your mind and try to forget this ever happened.

You can't be flushing things down in other people's houses, though, Trish.

You understand that, right?

Next time you go to art night, no flushing.

But otherwise, I'm grabbing my big gavel.

I rule in Trish's favor.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Trish, how are you feeling?

I really just wanted to see Marlow have to flush soup exactly once in my life.

And now that I have been given the verdict that I'm allowed to maybe flush soup in my own home, maybe one day I can convince her to give it a try at my house.

Marlow, how are you feeling?

Honestly, I'm perplexed at the little spark of joy that just ignited in me to do something naughty

and put food down the toilet at someone else's house.

I don't know.

That was surprising even for me.

I'm going to have to digest that a little bit, I think.

Trisha and Marlow, we sure appreciate you coming on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

We'll have Swift Justice in just a moment.

First, our thanks to Redditor Irony Maiden for naming this week's episode Flush to Judgment.

I think that's a repeat for Irony Maiden, don't you think, Judge Hodgman?

Yeah, absolutely.

Good job, Irony Maiden.

You can see from the name that that's kind of their thing.

They know how to.

Yeah, absolutely.

What was the pun that I made?

Oh, Copaceptic.

Yeah, that's my new Reddit name, Copaceptic.

Copaceptic Hodge.

Oh, boy.

Well, if you want to join the conversation with Copaceptic, it's maximumfun.reddit.com.

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I just want to say, I recognize these names, right?

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Now, swift justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment.

Adelaide Sean from the MaxFun subreddit says, my wife is a couple years older than I am.

We're both in our late 50s, and she hates it when I say that I am getting old.

It makes her feel really old.

Can I petition the court for permission to describe myself as getting old?

Thank you, first of all, Adelaide Sean, for making me feel relatively young.

If your partner says, I don't, when you say something like, I'm getting old, makes me feel old, then you can't say it.

You can say it to yourself.

You can think about it.

Maybe talk about it with a therapist.

But there's no reason to bum out the person you love by saying things that she or they or he have already indicated they don't want to think about.

So yeah.

Yeah, you can describe yourself as getting old here, there, everywhere, but just

when you're with your partner, just focus on feeling relatively young.

Like me, Judge John Hodgman, a guy with a bad beard.

Hey, today we heard about an exciting food disposal system that remarkably was not from a weird dad.

And this one

pointed out that it's pretty gross, but you know, functional.

What are some other disputes you have, though, that give you the ick?

Did you go on a date with someone that was going great until they said or did something that made you go, oh, cringe?

Did you maybe say cringe out loud?

Does your roommate

cringe?

Exactly.

So, did your roommate want to watch gory movies and you can't stand to watch gory movies?

Because cringe or ick?

Do you love to keep fresh flowers in your home, but your partner can't stand the smell?

Or do you like to keep a corpse flower in your home that blooms every however many years and smells like a decaying body?

Do you live in an arboretum?

Tell us about your icky disputes at maximumfund.org/slash jjho.

And of course, we'll take any old dumb dispute at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO.

No case too big or too small.

We judge them all.

Just think about your life, think about your friends and enemies, and type it all into that text box at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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