Live From London 2023

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. It's me, Governor, your Judge John Hodgman.
This week's episode was recorded live in London at the London Podcast Festival.

Speaker 1 It was our second stop in our Van Freaks Road Show tour, which is revving back up October 9th in Lexington, Kentucky.

Speaker 1 Visit vanfreaksroadshow.com for the rest of our dates and cities and to buy tickets and to submit your disputes, vanfreaksroadshow.com.

Speaker 1 Now let's go to the stage at King's Place for some live justice at the London Podcast Festival.

Speaker 3 London, you've come to us desperate for justice, and we're here live at the London Podcast Festival to deliver it.

Speaker 7 Let's bring out our first set of litigants. Please welcome to the stage May and Paul.

Speaker 7 Our case

Speaker 7 undergrounds for dismissal.

Speaker 3 When May and Paul go out together, May prefers to take the bus. She likes to take her time and see the city.

Speaker 4 But Paul hates the bus.

Speaker 3 He says the tube is quicker and more reliable.

Speaker 4 Who's right? Who's wrong?

Speaker 3 Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Speaker 9 Rattle big black bones in the danger zone. There's a rumbling groan down below.

Speaker 5 There's a big black town. It's the place I've found.
Judge John Hodgman is in London Town.

Speaker 5 They're alive.

Speaker 5 They're awake.

Speaker 8 While the rest of the world is asleep.

Speaker 5 Below the mine shaft roads,

Speaker 11 it will all unfold.

Speaker 3 John John Hodgman is in London Town.

Speaker 12 Bailiff Jesse Thorne, you may swear them in.

Speaker 3 The role you were born to play.

Speaker 3 May Paul please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God, or whatever.

Speaker 14 I do.

Speaker 3 Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he travels only by rigid airship?

Speaker 15 I do. I do.

Speaker 3 Judge Hodgman, you may be

Speaker 16 semi-rigid these days, I'm afraid.

Speaker 9 We all get older.

Speaker 18 May and Paul, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors.

Speaker 21 Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I arose from my slumber to speak to you here in London?

Speaker 24 May, do you want to take a guess?

Speaker 25 I think I know it, but I can't think of it. So I'm going to definitely look back and regret it.

Speaker 26 No, you'll regret nothing.

Speaker 28 Okay.

Speaker 25 Is it a Nick Cave song?

Speaker 29 Is it a Nick Cave song?

Speaker 30 That's a very good guess.

Speaker 24 I like it.

Speaker 12 I like the guess.

Speaker 31 This is an artist with a very specific vocal style.

Speaker 25 I know.

Speaker 33 I know.

Speaker 34 And Nick Cave is not that. But that's fine.

Speaker 12 I think you're in the ballpark, though.

Speaker 9 Yes.

Speaker 35 What about you, Paul?

Speaker 37 I wasn't really sure, but maybe like a Tim Burton something.

Speaker 40 Tim Burton, sort of a haunted carnival feel, is also in the same neighborhood.

Speaker 3 Judge Hodgman.

Speaker 33 Did you have a guest, Jesse? I did.

Speaker 43 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Tone Loke?

Speaker 44 Tone Loke.

Speaker 45 That's exactly right.

Speaker 46 It is Funky Called Medina by Tone Loke

Speaker 47 as covered by Tom Waits.

Speaker 49 All guesses are wrong.

Speaker 19 It was Tom Waits' song from his album Swordfish Trombones, specifically called Underground, because that is what we are talking about here today, the London Underground and also the London Double Above Ground, which is what we call a bus or a loo here in London.

Speaker 40 Exactly so.

Speaker 29 So who comes to seek justice in this fake court?

Speaker 38 I do. And you are May, correct?

Speaker 54 What is is the nature of the justice you seek?

Speaker 25 So yeah, Paul and I live in central London. When we go out and about together.

Speaker 20 I thought I detected a central London accent.

Speaker 25 Born and bred.

Speaker 25 When we go out together, I prefer to take the bus. It's more enjoyable.

Speaker 16 You prefer to take the bus when you go out and about.

Speaker 55 And Paul, how do you respond?

Speaker 37 So I am actually from London. And when we go out, I prefer to take the tube.
because I like to get to places.

Speaker 39 What line is your favourite line?

Speaker 37 Probably the Victoria line, because that's my nearest one, and there's trains every minute, minute and a half, and they just turn up and they just go.

Speaker 16 And they go.

Speaker 16 I understand.

Speaker 3 Let the record reflect that when you said Victoria line, someone went, woo!

Speaker 26 Are there favorite lines?

Speaker 4 Are there good lines?

Speaker 55 Oh, yeah, yes, yes.

Speaker 58 What's the best line?

Speaker 48 Ah!

Speaker 25 Did someone say the district line?

Speaker 15 Oh my god, someone said the district line?

Speaker 37 I also know what that means.

Speaker 49 May, when did you first take a London bus?

Speaker 19 It must have been when you were coming home from the hospital here in England.

Speaker 25 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 25 No, I moved here 10 years ago. I did a semester abroad even before that, so it must have been 2010.
I took my first bus.

Speaker 60 Your first bus, and what did it feel like when you were taking it?

Speaker 10 Was it love at first?

Speaker 29 Bus?

Speaker 25 Yes. Yeah, no, it was great.
I think, see, growing up in the U.S., U.S., which is

Speaker 16 where did you actually grow up, if I may say?

Speaker 25 I moved around a lot as a child. I grew up in the Midwest

Speaker 14 region.

Speaker 25 Sure. Lots of different places in the suburbs, so no public transport.

Speaker 23 No public transportation, what to say?

Speaker 25 No. So growing up watching movies and TV shows, seeing that double-decker iconic red bus.

Speaker 58 Iconic.

Speaker 25 Arriving to London, just being like, whoa, it's real. Right.

Speaker 25 Riding that bus, especially the night bus specifically.

Speaker 61 Everyone loves the night bus.

Speaker 62 I also spent a semester of college here in London on a drink abroad program of my own devising.

Speaker 45 And I remember loving the night bus.

Speaker 9 So reliable.

Speaker 23 And also the people you meet on the night bus.

Speaker 40 Just the loveliest.

Speaker 53 You might get some free food thrown at you or regurgitated at you.

Speaker 46 It's like you're a little bird in a nest.

Speaker 31 Someone's trying to feed you some curry and

Speaker 16 ale

Speaker 45 from their stomachs that's great and so the majesty and the romance of the night bus really won you over yes and uh

Speaker 37 and Paul why is May wrong she's wrong about buses because they're really slow and they don't turn up very often and a very London bus is probably the best buses in the country in all of England do you mean or Britain or probably anywhere probably okay they might be the best in the world but probably the best in the world but they just are slow and they don't go in they don't turn up and they don't

Speaker 37 they don't get you there in the time you want to get there.

Speaker 50 You are a Londoner.

Speaker 24 Yeah. How did you two meet?

Speaker 37 Online.

Speaker 65 Really? Yeah.

Speaker 42 And how long ago did you meet?

Speaker 42 Nine years ago.

Speaker 12 Nine years ago. So you had moved here already.

Speaker 24 Yeah. You did not move to pee with Paul?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 42 No. Wonderful.

Speaker 40 Sounds like you're still deciding.

Speaker 27 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 48 In the process.

Speaker 14 Yeah, all right.

Speaker 38 Paul, you're a Londoner.

Speaker 43 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Would you think most Londoners would agree with you that the buses suck?

Speaker 29 Yeah, I think they would.

Speaker 15 Buses suck.

Speaker 36 Boom.

Speaker 9 All right. Who here loves buses?

Speaker 47 Who here hates buses?

Speaker 2 Oh, more bus lovers in the crowd. Yeah.

Speaker 20 This is not going to be decided by a jury.

Speaker 11 Okay.

Speaker 44 Fair.

Speaker 20 Now, you submitted some evidence to the court, some photographic evidence.

Speaker 21 Could you see that?

Speaker 40 It's always great for a podcast to have photographic evidence.

Speaker 19 What's the first piece of evidence, please?

Speaker 24 Oh, Jesse, you've got the clicker.

Speaker 55 Look at that.

Speaker 25 That is a view from my my second favorite bus route.

Speaker 43 Right.

Speaker 20 So what we're looking at, for those of you listening at home, are four empty seats on the top decker of a double-decker bus.

Speaker 38 There is a lonely empty can of Red Bull rolling around

Speaker 69 in one of them.

Speaker 31 And just behind in the distance, you can see just a bit of the arc of the London Super Wheel. And then obviously, beautiful HP Tower right there.
HP Sauce Tower right there behind it.

Speaker 40 It is truly a lovely scene.

Speaker 20 So tell me, why is this your favorite bus route?

Speaker 25 It's my second favorite bus route.

Speaker 43 Oh, excuse me. Yeah.

Speaker 25 It's the 341 that's going over Waterloo Bridge, back up to my house in Angel.

Speaker 25 And yeah, it's a good route because it gets you to Waterloo and you don't have to take the tube to Waterloo when you need to get there. And you get this lovely view.

Speaker 70 The 341 bus?

Speaker 25 Yeah, the 341.

Speaker 31 Does that mean that there are at least 341 different routes, Paul?

Speaker 37 No, I don't think so.

Speaker 21 Well, why? Why is it the 341?

Speaker 25 Oh, I read a whole book about it once, but I can't remember.

Speaker 9 You read a whole book about it?

Speaker 25 Yeah, there's a whole, well, because they used to be run by separate companies.

Speaker 25 Every company would have the right thing.

Speaker 46 Had its own numbering system.

Speaker 20 That's right. And so, why make it easy for anyone to get around?

Speaker 64 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 40 You have to decipher a code, right?

Speaker 50 It's like the Enigma code.

Speaker 45 You figure out where you're going.

Speaker 58 I'm talking from experience.

Speaker 52 I tried to take the bus yesterday.

Speaker 73 I'll tell you about it later.

Speaker 44 Yes, please. I still don't know what happened.
What bus was it?

Speaker 20 I ended up not at my destination, but I ended up sometime yesterday.

Speaker 15 It does happen. Yeah.

Speaker 40 But in any case, it was very nice.

Speaker 50 Paul, did you want to say something?

Speaker 37 No, apart from like this bus just takes ages.

Speaker 37 If you want to get to Waterloo and you're going there for a train, you're just like, you have to leave really early or else you're going to miss your train.

Speaker 3 Is it hard to get to Waterloo?

Speaker 37 From our flat, this bus actually is quite convenient. It's just slow.

Speaker 3 What about to escape if you wanted to?

Speaker 9 Yeah, yeah. Jesse, we're not holograms.

Speaker 10 Paul,

Speaker 30 do you work at home?

Speaker 41 Do you have to commute, either of you?

Speaker 15 I'm mixed.

Speaker 37 I work from Highland Commute.

Speaker 43 Right, okay. And man.

Speaker 25 I'm fully remote.

Speaker 40 You're fully remote, so you don't ever have to be anywhere you don't want to be.

Speaker 25 No.

Speaker 25 And I can usually take my time, you know, watch the world go by.

Speaker 24 How did you get here tonight?

Speaker 25 We walked.

Speaker 43 Oh.

Speaker 69 I think we agree. That's good.

Speaker 20 I'm glad that you agreed to walk everywhere until I decided what you will do for the future.

Speaker 25 I think we do agree that walking is the best. But if it's too long to walk, then we disagree.

Speaker 45 Then you have to choose something else, I'll be right back.

Speaker 21 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 50 What's the next slide that you brought?

Speaker 10 Oh.

Speaker 25 That's Rupert Giles, our pup.

Speaker 41 You know, you could have picked just one of those names, and it would be perfectly adorable English and twee, but you had to add both.

Speaker 74 Yeah, it's Rupert Giles.

Speaker 50 What kind of dog is Rupert Giles?

Speaker 28 He's a

Speaker 25 mutt. A schnauzer, poodle, cocker spaniel.

Speaker 19 Yeah, and wouldn't you agree, May, that he looks terrified being brought into a hole?

Speaker 9 Yes. Yes, yeah, he does.

Speaker 63 Yes, that's why I'm a little bit more.

Speaker 10 Well, you agree as well, Paul.

Speaker 37 Yeah, sometimes you just have to do it.

Speaker 3 Are you allowed to bring dogs into the subway?

Speaker 15 Of course.

Speaker 3 Of course, that's not self-evident.

Speaker 55 How else do you get anywhere with a dog?

Speaker 4 Subways are for people.

Speaker 30 But

Speaker 17 any pet can go onto the subway at any time?

Speaker 9 I don't know actually. Dogs are allowed, though.

Speaker 72 Dogs are definitely allowed.

Speaker 43 Anything in a crate hole.

Speaker 71 A total thing.

Speaker 3 Right. Can dogs ride the subway without people.

Speaker 26 I've never seen it happen.

Speaker 3 What if they have to get to Waterloo?

Speaker 37 There's videos all the time of pigeons jumping onto the tube, riding at a stop or two, and then jumping off, which, yeah, animals can do what they want.

Speaker 75 We ever see a cat on a leash in there?

Speaker 9 Yes, thank you.

Speaker 10 I love that.

Speaker 3 What about a guy with an iguana on his shoulder?

Speaker 37 Haven't seen that.

Speaker 7 No.

Speaker 34 I love seeing a cat on a leash.

Speaker 66 It's just so humiliating to them.

Speaker 20 Next slide, please.

Speaker 75 Oh, Paul, here you are.

Speaker 23 You're so happy next to your Lego London underground map.

Speaker 37 This is at the London Transport Museum out in

Speaker 11 the Lego Museum. Get wrong, Paul.

Speaker 72 It's at the TFL Depot.

Speaker 55 It's at the TFL Depot.

Speaker 55 The Transport for London depot, where they store the older.

Speaker 11 They store all the old undergrounds.

Speaker 37 They store all the Legos and Lego maps, yeah.

Speaker 58 And who submitted this piece of evidence?

Speaker 25 I submitted it because I wanted to be nice.

Speaker 28 Because look at how happy he is.

Speaker 44 He's very happy.

Speaker 34 Do you have an affection for the underground beyond just its functionality and getting places?

Speaker 37 I like trains in general. I think they're cool.

Speaker 38 You like ChuChi trains?

Speaker 43 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 37 I mean, modern trains are great, but Chu Chi trains are fantastic as well.

Speaker 20 What about funiculars? What about gondolas?

Speaker 43 Yeah, no problem.

Speaker 37 I've got no problem. No thoughts, really, anyway, with a gondola.

Speaker 41 Jesse, if you had to get rid of all subway trains or all funiculars, what would you do?

Speaker 15 God, that's hard. Yeah.

Speaker 3 I love riding the subway in Los Los Angeles, but I love riding Angel's Flight, Los Angeles' most famous funicular.

Speaker 61 Of the many famous funiculars.

Speaker 10 I've ridden Los Angeles.

Speaker 55 It's quite fun.

Speaker 3 It's really great. However, it now occurs to me: without the subway, I couldn't get to Angel's Flight, so I'm going to stick with the subway.

Speaker 57 All right, the Los Angeles subway is saved.

Speaker 20 Good job. Good choice.

Speaker 3 And with it, my family's trips to the Central Library.

Speaker 17 Paul, what do you like about the train so much?

Speaker 53 What's the appeal?

Speaker 37 So, more for trains than the tube. I just like when you're on a train and you know you're going to get somewhere in time, if it's working, you just can just sit out and stare out the window.

Speaker 37 Obviously, it doesn't work on tube so much.

Speaker 68 Right.

Speaker 37 But yeah, I just like, so on trains, that, on tubes, it's more just you know

Speaker 37 how long a journey is going to take. So you know what time you have to leave, and you don't have to guess how long a bus it's going to take to get through tracks.

Speaker 31 And also, tracks.

Speaker 78 Yes. They can just take a left.

Speaker 29 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 40 It's going to go to that station.

Speaker 37 They're going to go where they're going to go.

Speaker 52 It could skip a station.

Speaker 63 Terrifying possibility.

Speaker 61 Could skip a station, but it's going to at least go through the station.

Speaker 24 Yeah.

Speaker 43 Buses may go anywhere.

Speaker 41 I mean, you're at the whim of the driver.

Speaker 25 That's kind of part of the magic, right?

Speaker 43 Well,

Speaker 19 what if the driver wakes up one morning and takes a bunch of psychedelic mushrooms and decides to go rogue?

Speaker 20 And suddenly you're five blocks from where you were supposed to be.

Speaker 9 The worst possible outcome.

Speaker 3 I thought you were going to say, and suddenly dogs are allowed to ride this subway.

Speaker 17 But you like the predictability of trains.

Speaker 53 Is that not right, Paul?

Speaker 37 Yeah, absolutely. You just know how long it's going to take and when they're going to turn up.

Speaker 23 Has the train ever let you down, Paul?

Speaker 71 All the time.

Speaker 37 Oh, but much less frequently than a bus would let you down.

Speaker 54 What was the worst train situation you ever had?

Speaker 37 I spent an hour just sat in a tube train in a tunnel.

Speaker 64 Right.

Speaker 37 When they break down, you just underground.

Speaker 43 Yeah.

Speaker 16 Unable to get out.

Speaker 60 Or text anyone or text or communicate with anyone.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 54 Just breathing human farts.

Speaker 37 Yeah. Some of them are mine, though, so it's fine.

Speaker 26 No, no, I understand.

Speaker 4 Some of them are dogs.

Speaker 35 May, has the bus ever let you down catastrophically?

Speaker 25 Yeah, I have to admit.

Speaker 20 What was the worst situation that ever happened?

Speaker 25 There was, well, actually, it's based off of a tube let down. There was a tube strike a few years ago.
So everyone was on the buses and the

Speaker 25 traffic was really bad because everyone was driving as well. And I got stuck on the number eight bus.

Speaker 22 3952.9?

Speaker 25 No, this was the number eight bus right outside St. Paul's Cathedral and we were just sat there for probably a good hour.

Speaker 26 But with a bus you can jump off.

Speaker 28 You can get out.

Speaker 20 Yes.

Speaker 24 You can escape.

Speaker 43 But you didn't. You just sat there.

Speaker 10 You took it.

Speaker 37 You could have just got off and walked and got been home in an hour.

Speaker 25 It was on my way to work so I wasn't really in a hurry.

Speaker 22 And why was it stopped?

Speaker 20 Mechanical error?

Speaker 25 No, it was just traffic jams.

Speaker 12 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 20 I was going to say, what is the difference between a bus that is stopped in traffic and a bus that is operating normally?

Speaker 26 Zero difference. Some of them zoom real fast.

Speaker 79 Some of them zoom fast. Yeah.

Speaker 17 When you, would you have any claustrophobia, May?

Speaker 14 Is this an anti-tube thing?

Speaker 25 Yeah, it's partially anti-tube, partially pro-bus. I feel, especially during rush hour, very closed in on a full tube train.
Sure. When you're kind of in a nook of someone's armpit for an hour.

Speaker 50 Yeah, you probably shouldn't be in there.

Speaker 46 No.

Speaker 10 Without consent.

Speaker 28 Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 25 It's tough.

Speaker 23 Paul, do you have a similar reaction to buses?

Speaker 45 You know, like a sense of anxiety?

Speaker 37 A bit. Sometimes it depends he's on them.
Like, as you were saying earlier, it's like the later ones just get quite sketchy.

Speaker 65 Yeah.

Speaker 37 Yeah.

Speaker 51 But you don't have my fear that when you're on a bus, the bus driver will just go rogue and take you anywhere.

Speaker 37 I mean, they do take...

Speaker 69 Or maybe you're now thinking about it for the first time.

Speaker 37 They do take random routes quite often.

Speaker 25 They're not random. You can look them up online beforehand.

Speaker 15 Well, they don't normally tell you.

Speaker 37 They'll just be like, oh, something's broken down over there, so we're going to go, instead of going that, we'll go like that.

Speaker 3 Has this ever negatively affected your life when you've been on the bus and you've ended up missing an appointment or something similar?

Speaker 37 Well,

Speaker 37 I like turning off on time, and like if we're meeting some friends or something, I don't want to be the late person.

Speaker 71 Has that happened?

Speaker 10 All the time.

Speaker 55 If we take the buses, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 18 Would you say, what would be the rate of being late to meet a friend when you take the bus?

Speaker 58 100% of the time?

Speaker 37 I'd say 75% of the time.

Speaker 54 Maybe you disagree?

Speaker 14 That's probably right.

Speaker 25 But it's never catastrophically late.

Speaker 74 It's like 10 minutes.

Speaker 46 Oh, very continental of you.

Speaker 14 Exactly.

Speaker 3 Is part of this that you don't leave enough time to get there on the bus?

Speaker 25 Yes, for sure. We could give ourselves a lot more time and we could get there via the bus.

Speaker 37 But we both operate on a sort of just-on-time basis.

Speaker 3 Like Walmart.

Speaker 10 Yeah, like Walmart, yeah.

Speaker 37 And

Speaker 37 if we take the train, you know when it's going to, you know, you know what you're going to do and when you're going to get there.

Speaker 19 All right, everyone has a preference, but what would you have me rule, May, if I were to rule in your favor, no tubes ever?

Speaker 25 I think, to be fair,

Speaker 25 tubes have a place.

Speaker 28 But just

Speaker 44 when...

Speaker 31 I appreciate your fairness.

Speaker 26 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 9 I don't think this should all be destroyed.

Speaker 10 I should have taken a place.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 25 But I think we should only take the tube if we have to get somewhere for a show or a gig where they might actually close the doors. So if we were late, it would be catastrophic.

Speaker 19 But meeting friends wouldn't fit that.

Speaker 9 It's fine.

Speaker 31 How do you feel when you're late meeting friends?

Speaker 19 And is it only 10 minutes?

Speaker 41 Or is that a.

Speaker 37 10 minutes plus.

Speaker 37 I just feel guilty. Like, why am I making my friends hang around for me because I'm too late?

Speaker 46 When you know you're late, do you feel like.

Speaker 37 I'm with text. I'm like, I'm going to be sort of anything over two minutes late.
And I'm like, sorry, I'm running late text person.

Speaker 12 Well, yeah, sure.

Speaker 19 But do you feel it physically when you're running late?

Speaker 42 Yeah.

Speaker 71 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 60 Right. Not a fun feeling for you.
No.

Speaker 14 What do we feel?

Speaker 37 Just like guilty, you know, the all-encompassing guilt.

Speaker 3 How How is that different from being English?

Speaker 37 That might be the problem, yeah.

Speaker 57 What would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor, Paul?

Speaker 40 I'd like no more buses ever.

Speaker 44 Fill them all with tubes.

Speaker 37 Every now and then, the bus is okay. I'd like sort of tubes to be the primary option.
Like, that's your first choice, and buses are fullback.

Speaker 31 Right. Write a first refusal for tubes.

Speaker 29 Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 25 But when do we then not use the tube? Where do we draw the line?

Speaker 37 If we're going to Hackney.

Speaker 3 buses are for hackney only yeah that sounds right i couldn't agree more and know what that means

Speaker 71 do we have any more evidence yeah let's see let's take a look up here at a little more evidence

Speaker 44 oh

Speaker 55 dogs are allowed on buses too no that's a dude that's a train that's a train but that's not a is that a

Speaker 62 that's like a mainline train a mainline train

Speaker 2 line on this train what what what's his name

Speaker 22 sinjin fife or whatever

Speaker 31 Seems very happy there.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he's happy there.

Speaker 46 On a mainline train.

Speaker 82 He's not underground. Because he's not underground.

Speaker 38 You think he makes sense

Speaker 34 that

Speaker 45 he's going down deep into a tube full of people

Speaker 14 that he can't.

Speaker 42 Yeah, exactly. Totally.

Speaker 28 That's me on a bus. Look how happy I am in this one.

Speaker 12 What is the steering wheel?

Speaker 25 So part of the reason I love buses is because if you go on the top deck and you sit in the front, you can pretend you're driving.

Speaker 44 Right.

Speaker 25 Classic.

Speaker 25 And on this bus, randomly, this was in Jersey, and we went on the top deck, went to the front, and there was a steering wheel just waiting.

Speaker 49 Oh, there's a fake steering wheel for children.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 25 For everyone. It didn't have a sign or anything.

Speaker 20 I thought that that was something that you brought with you on every bus.

Speaker 40 Which is a good idea.

Speaker 69 Which is not a terrible idea if you enjoy it.

Speaker 6 Love it.

Speaker 83 All right, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

Speaker 45 I am going to descend into my underground lair to make my decision.

Speaker 42 I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Speaker 3 Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Paul, how do you feel about your chances tonight?

Speaker 77 I think it went pretty well, yeah.

Speaker 37 I feel like good chance it. I think he listened to my arguments and gave me a sympathetic

Speaker 37 review.

Speaker 3 Did you see that that timer that was ticking down in front of you turned red?

Speaker 37 Yeah, I did. I was very impressed by how he drove us free the tie with times.

Speaker 3 How do you feel though?

Speaker 67 Because it's red now.

Speaker 37 Well, I've seen red means that I've won.

Speaker 3 Do you want to send some texts?

Speaker 37 This isn't my party, so you can be as late as you want, I think.

Speaker 3 May, how are you feeling?

Speaker 25 I'm not feeling great, to be honest.

Speaker 3 Are dogs allowed on buses?

Speaker 74 Of course.

Speaker 4 Why do we live in America?

Speaker 25 It's a great question.

Speaker 9 Dogs are allowed to be. There is a reason she's here.

Speaker 55 That's one of the reasons.

Speaker 25 Number one reason is the dogs on transport.

Speaker 3 Well, Paul, May, we'll find out what Judge John Hodgman has to say when we come back in just a moment.

Speaker 17 Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

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Speaker 89 And it will last a long time.

Speaker 89 And whether it's griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware, I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be getting back.

Speaker 88 to my beloved made-in entree bowls. All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

Speaker 88 If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in, made in.

Speaker 88 For full details, visit madeincookwear.com. That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com.
Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Speaker 3 Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Speaker 16 I'm getting too old for that bit.

Speaker 41 So I have been visiting your country for a long time.

Speaker 51 My mother was an Anglophile, and she would come up with reasons that we would have to visit.

Speaker 51 The first time I ever came to London, and the first time I ever encountered the underground, was when I was about 11 years old.

Speaker 20 I know that I was 11 years old because when we came over, I had a head cold and I got sick, and I had to stay in bed for a couple of days during our visit.

Speaker 2 And my father brought me a comic book, and it was the June 1983 edition of The Legion of Superheroes.

Speaker 58 And I said to my dad, Father, a DC comic?

Speaker 16 Really? You know me not at all.

Speaker 29 And I tore it up in his face.

Speaker 19 No, he was doing his best.

Speaker 18 And I like Legion of Superheroes.

Speaker 31 But the first time I ever saw the tube, I remember thinking to myself, maybe even saying out loud, oh my god, they really did it.

Speaker 11 It's a tube.

Speaker 13 Doesn't have to be a tube.

Speaker 23 You know, I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts.

Speaker 19 We have a subway.

Speaker 23 It's a hallway.

Speaker 39 You know, it's a square rectangular hallway.

Speaker 29 It doesn't have to be a tube like something that a rodent dug.

Speaker 10 Do you know?

Speaker 49 And not only that, it's a tube within a tube.

Speaker 23 Like the trains are tubes too.

Speaker 23 That's just too, I mean, the branding's impeccable.

Speaker 29 But I mean, if you really want the experience of being deep underground and running through a tube as though you are running away from danger, like the rabbits and watership down, but there's nowhere to go because the men have plugged up all the holes and they're sending poison down the holes.

Speaker 50 That's what riding the tube is like.

Speaker 20 And I'm not normally claustrophobic, but it's just the fact that it's curved and you're like, ooh, really a tube.

Speaker 9 Not all of them, but some of them.

Speaker 51 By contrast, I mentioned before, I took the bus yesterday and it was terrible.

Speaker 39 I was walking.

Speaker 66 I was walking along a road, a main road, and I happened to have a little oyster card in my pocket because I'm an international traveler.

Speaker 23 And a bus came along.

Speaker 20 I'm like, this will relieve me of my walk.

Speaker 40 I was starting to feel a little bit tired.

Speaker 66 I'm too old to be jumping up and down behind a podium all the time.

Speaker 53 So I get onto this bus and I'm looking at my phone, which is tracking its progress because I figure, okay, probably a popular mapping application will be able to tell me which route I'm on.

Speaker 23 And I saw all the routes of the bus, and this bus was on none of them.

Speaker 57 This bus was on no route whatsoever.

Speaker 23 And it was going down a major road, and then it took a left, no, excuse me, a right, off its route just to go on its own.

Speaker 49 My worst possible fear finally came true.

Speaker 57 It was just doing its own thing, and I got off that bus very fast.

Speaker 31 And I hobbled back up to the main road to wait for a different bus.

Speaker 58 And then I looked at

Speaker 61 all the signage on the post to explain to you what to do.

Speaker 20 And there were 5,000 numbers there.

Speaker 3 And none of it was comprehensible to me.

Speaker 20 So I decided, okay, I think I've got this figured out.

Speaker 24 I think I'm going to get on, I think it was a 38 bus.

Speaker 25 That's my number one bus.

Speaker 40 That's your number one bus.

Speaker 28 The best bus.

Speaker 10 Well, f that.

Speaker 9 Sorry to swear.

Speaker 49 But I would ask you please to ring them up and explain that a foreign visitor was excited to ride the number 38 bus, as were many other people, locals who needed to go to a place.

Speaker 38 The bus, number 38 bus, came along, slowed down to a stop.

Speaker 20 The driver looked at all of us

Speaker 3 and then went, no.

Speaker 63 And then just kept on.

Speaker 49 No possible explanation for it other than spite.

Speaker 49 The bus wasn't full, and just people just were very upset about it.

Speaker 52 And that's when I gave up on the bus after that.

Speaker 23 Can you explain that why that happened?

Speaker 25 They might not have liked the look of you.

Speaker 81 It's not just me. I mean, that I would accept.

Speaker 72 As a plural of the group, potentially.

Speaker 25 Oh, all of us. They could have thought you might have started something.

Speaker 45 No, it was in the middle of the afternoon.

Speaker 19 This wasn't a night bus.

Speaker 40 We were all just trying to.

Speaker 21 I don't know.

Speaker 69 Does that happen? That the bus just will not stop?

Speaker 9 Yes. And what reason?

Speaker 10 Only when it's full.

Speaker 37 Sometimes it's full.

Speaker 3 Sometimes the driver is just annoying.

Speaker 58 It does seem to me that the bus is a little less predictable, but that's known.

Speaker 60 I mean, really, what should be happening here is, you know, people like what they like.

Speaker 19 You're going to go meet friends, you take the bus, you take the tube, and you'll get there first, and then you'll look, you know, late, and no one will care.

Speaker 45 But then you don't get to enjoy the company of each other, right?

Speaker 51 Can you enjoy each other's company

Speaker 19 on your hated form of transportation?

Speaker 10 I think so. Yeah.

Speaker 21 Yeah. All right, well, you can never ride together again.

Speaker 20 I'm really stuck here because I don't know what possible standing

Speaker 66 you would have, Paul, to order May to never take the bus again.

Speaker 45 I think that May's solution is reasonable.

Speaker 31 If you are

Speaker 68 trying to make a concert or a movie or

Speaker 62 a restaurant reservation, and May, if you're meeting friends, you have to take the tube.

Speaker 46 If you're going for a fantastical joyride through the magical city of London with no real destination and no need to get anywhere.

Speaker 18 And really riding is kind of optional too, because it might just be sitting and looking, then absolutely take the bus.

Speaker 66 But if there's something, if you're traveling together and you have to hit a time period, then I do think that you have to go ahead and take the tube.

Speaker 31 Paul, I rule in your favor. I hope that you'll enjoy it.

Speaker 49 But Paul,

Speaker 24 your friends don't care if you're late.

Speaker 83 That's something you can do.

Speaker 31 You can do some deep breathing exercises, exercise some distress tolerance.

Speaker 39 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 40 They don't really care.

Speaker 51 I just a reminder: no one's really thinking about you as much as you are thinking about yourself.

Speaker 39 They're all thinking about themselves.

Speaker 58 And you know, it's very rare that you're actually making someone uncomfortable because you're late.

Speaker 31 But that said, I don't think that you deserve to feel uncomfortable while you're going to a place, and therefore, I rule in favor of the deep, dark tunnel that is the tube.

Speaker 24 Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Thank you.

Speaker 3 Hey, and Paul, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Speaker 3 Judge Hodgman really was excited. Like, the first thing that John said when we got to London was, and I'm not making this up, I'm excited to ride the bus.

Speaker 44 I really want to.

Speaker 81 I was really, I mean, I truly was excited to ride the bus.

Speaker 57 I haven't, I like ride, I actually like riding the tube.

Speaker 70 And there's one thing that Paul forgot to point out is that unlike the bus, the tube has stations.

Speaker 69 Stuff's happening in those stations. There's some busking going on and urination.
Other things are happening in the stations.

Speaker 34 I was really excited to ride the bus, bus, but the bus shore did cure me of that. That was a terrible experience.

Speaker 3 I got to tell you, I immediately talked Smack about how I prefer the subway. And guess what I went out and did immediately thereafter? Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 I got up on the top floor of a double-decker right in the front window and enjoyed a long ride to East London.

Speaker 20 Did you pretend to steer and go pew, pew, pew, like you're firing lasers?

Speaker 15 Well, there wasn't a...

Speaker 3 children's steering wheel there, so no.

Speaker 31 Jesse, last time we were here, we had a very special musical guest come and sing for us, and it was so wonderful.

Speaker 45 And I've missed her so much, and I'm happy to say that we're very lucky because it's going to happen again.

Speaker 54 That's right.

Speaker 57 Introduce our guest.

Speaker 3 Yeah, last time she was here performing under the name of Emmy the Great, but while she remains great, she is also many other things, a singer, songwriter, essayist, and the author of a forthcoming book, One Person Playing Two Roles, a Kanto Pop Memoir.

Speaker 3 Please welcome welcome to the stage Emily Moss.

Speaker 21 Emily Moss to the stage, if you please.

Speaker 25 Hi, hi, thank you so much. I love the name of your dog.

Speaker 25 This song is called Flower Market.

Speaker 25 It's a new song. It's for a music project I haven't...
done anything with so it's a secret

Speaker 25 um but yeah it's called flower Market. Um, and I wrote it after finding a voice note of

Speaker 25 my mum walking through a flower market criticizing beautiful flowers.

Speaker 25 Um, thanks.

Speaker 36 Moi fa lan fa

Speaker 36 lin fa tofa, mo yin fa, lo yan fa, kuk fa ta

Speaker 36 Mui fa lan fa

Speaker 36 Lin fa fa to fa

Speaker 36 mu yin fa le yan fa kuk fa ta

Speaker 36 I'll find a wild acre in this life

Speaker 36 Put my head down and set in roots

Speaker 11 Seeds I sow will soon grow shoots

Speaker 11 in my wild acre

Speaker 11 I'll find a wild acre

Speaker 11 where there's light

Speaker 11 Moving around the trees at night

Speaker 11 Warm for nothing when the fruit grows ripe

Speaker 11 In my wild acre

Speaker 11 Marigold, dandelion, lavender,

Speaker 25 rose and hyacinth and ivy, stinging nettle, archichoke, wild thesle.

Speaker 25 Moon-colored buffalo

Speaker 25 in my mind.

Speaker 25 I leave you out in that sweet green rice

Speaker 25 bay

Speaker 36 in your distant tide and your

Speaker 36 wild icer

Speaker 36 Moi Fa

Speaker 36 Lan Fa

Speaker 36 Lin Fa

Speaker 36 To Fa

Speaker 36 Mo Yin Fong

Speaker 36 Lo Yan Faung Fata

Speaker 36 You

Speaker 36 took me to the

Speaker 36 flower market

Speaker 36 so we could

Speaker 36 pick up some

Speaker 36 spring branches

Speaker 36 Blossom and threw me a line

Speaker 36 We will not pay full price for a glorified bucket.

Speaker 36 Get into the car,

Speaker 36 your heart's full,

Speaker 36 we're going home.

Speaker 36 And I don't even think,

Speaker 36 I don't even think there's a

Speaker 36 correlation here.

Speaker 36 But the seasons come around,

Speaker 36 they come around,

Speaker 36 they are

Speaker 36 returning

Speaker 36 And this one

Speaker 36 This one is my favorite

Speaker 36 Moon colored buffalo

Speaker 36 in my mind

Speaker 36 Meet me at a nice sweet green rice

Speaker 36 Your mother's voice

Speaker 36 Your mother's voice is calling you

Speaker 36 Calling you you you you you you, you, you.

Speaker 36 Your mother's voice

Speaker 36 in your water.

Speaker 36 Thank you.

Speaker 62 Emma Lee Moss, everyone. Hey, Emma.

Speaker 17 Thank you for being here with us.

Speaker 70 And so you're in the midst of an artistic transition.

Speaker 25 Oh, that's a nice way of putting it. Yeah.

Speaker 51 You have ended the project that was known as Emmy the Great.

Speaker 25 Yeah, I did a final gig, which was really nice. It was like a ritual kind of thing.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 25 Right. I feel like I should talk into the mic because I had extensive.
So I have my back to you.

Speaker 51 Why don't you come around this way and you can speak into that microphone just for a moment?

Speaker 42 Okay.

Speaker 70 And so

Speaker 19 you had a ritual in which you, did you burn yourself an effigy?

Speaker 25 So my bandmate said that we should get a cardboard cut out of me and run it over with a car.

Speaker 25 But we didn't have the budget. Oh no.
So I just did 12 songs.

Speaker 25 Fair enough.

Speaker 25 Yeah.

Speaker 17 And what prompted the change?

Speaker 25 Well, I wanted to do it

Speaker 25 a long time ago. I thought I would wrap it up after a certain point and start something new because I was playing a lot of really old songs, you know, from when I was like 19 years old.

Speaker 25 And just some of the references had gone out of date. I didn't feel the same way.
I often updated the song lyrics. Right.
But then it was just like,

Speaker 25 you know, that thing where you're like cutting the broom. It's like an only fools and horses thing.
And you're just like, what am I working with here? So, yeah.

Speaker 44 Sure. Oh, I know about that.

Speaker 10 I know all about that.

Speaker 25 I also know all about that.

Speaker 25 I've seen it loads, but I only know that the victoria line yeah i like the um district line wow just to back back that person up i mean i don't love it but are you team tube or team bus i was we were sitting back there and we were discussing every single line um so we didn't hear everything but we thought that your ruling was kind

Speaker 34 yeah i know i'm sorry

Speaker 51 I really believe me, when we get to mob justice, I'm going to be much meaner.

Speaker 22 It's going to be much more exciting.

Speaker 3 It's going to be an absolute bloodbath.

Speaker 3 We're going to be taking every single one of these audience members, making a cardboard version of them and running them over with a justice car.

Speaker 23 Yeah, the printing is happening as we speak. We scanned you all as you came in.

Speaker 20 It's going to be traumatic.

Speaker 27 I'm sorry.

Speaker 25 I think you guys are going to be nice to everyone.

Speaker 48 Oh, gosh, you're probably right.

Speaker 10 Sorry.

Speaker 35 I mean, but the fact is, you were and are great.

Speaker 51 But I really admire when someone realizes, like, oh, I'm in a different time as an artist, and it's time to mark that somehow.

Speaker 25 Yeah, it felt really good. I mean, I didn't after the pandemic.

Speaker 25 I'm sorry, the what? Yeah, I didn't want to say it. I didn't want to be the first person to say it.
So I sat still for a really long time and you know I just couldn't let go.

Speaker 25 So I actually carried on for another two years because I was like, I really need to hold on to these old songs. And then it got to the point where I could actually feel like the old me knocking about.

Speaker 25 inside just being like you need to move on so and so you are and you have this book coming out I am writing it and definitely fingers crossed it will come out when I've written it

Speaker 25 I historically that is the order in which it happens so that's good news I have to write it and what is it about it's about

Speaker 25 my life in Hong Kong I have lived some of my life in Hong Kong

Speaker 25 and I have listened to music there that I haven't listened to publicly here. So it's about like decompartmentalization and the music of

Speaker 25 like fandom and the music of Hong Kong.

Speaker 83 Kantopop.

Speaker 25 Kanto pop.

Speaker 62 Which I'm not familiar with the genre.

Speaker 25 Well, you gotta read my book.

Speaker 25 No, I'll send you a playlist.

Speaker 45 I will walk to the store and give money for it.

Speaker 43 No. You will get a small portion of it.

Speaker 52 I will leave it on my bedside table and be like, why am I not reading that?

Speaker 45 Why am I just reading a My Asshole and Reddit again tonight?

Speaker 25 I will send you a PDF.

Speaker 44 That's very kind.

Speaker 10 Thank you very much.

Speaker 25 Yeah, no,

Speaker 25 it's the music of Hong Kong.

Speaker 15 Yes.

Speaker 25 Sung in Cantonese. Some of the stars are like Fei Wong.

Speaker 49 Well, you'll learn when you all read the book.

Speaker 25 People usually know, some people usually know.

Speaker 62 Is there anything else, since you have the ear of literally tens of Judge John Hodgman fans

Speaker 24 that you'd like people to know about or about this new phase in your life or

Speaker 52 a website to go to or a

Speaker 44 media account or my website

Speaker 25 just says what we have to do Emmy the Great is a former project.

Speaker 10 Every now and then I get like worried letters from people being like,

Speaker 25 what's happened?

Speaker 25 Yeah, no, I just, you all,

Speaker 25 you sound great. The laughter is really getting across on the feed in there.

Speaker 19 We usually don't give them notes until a little

Speaker 44 bit.

Speaker 43 I appreciate that.

Speaker 25 Yeah, no, thank you for having me.

Speaker 44 Thank you.

Speaker 21 Will you come back a little later maybe and sing something?

Speaker 10 Sure. Yeah, okay, cool.

Speaker 8 And have a long song, everyone.

Speaker 90 You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 90 maybe you stopped listening for a while. Maybe you never listened.
And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years. I know where this has ended up.

Speaker 91 But no, no, you would be wrong. We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Speaker 90 Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

Speaker 52 The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

Speaker 91 We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

Speaker 25 And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

Speaker 90 So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 25 All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show. Let's learn Everything.
So let's do a quick progress check. Have we learned about quantum physics?

Speaker 3 Yes, episode 59.

Speaker 25 We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we? Yes, we have. Same episode, actually.
Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Speaker 14 Episode 64.

Speaker 25 So how close are we to learning everything?

Speaker 25 Bad news. We still haven't learned everything yet.

Speaker 36 Oh, we're ruined.

Speaker 25 No, no, no, it's good news as well. There is still a lot to learn.
Woo!

Speaker 6 I'm Dr.

Speaker 25 Ella Hubber.

Speaker 72 I'm regular Tom Lum.

Speaker 25 I'm Caroline Roper and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

Speaker 25 And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode. Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Speaker 45 Jesse, we talk about the airing and quashing of beefs.

Speaker 39 Does that phrase track?

Speaker 35 Do people have beefs with each other in the UK?

Speaker 19 Is that a term that you understand for dispute?

Speaker 24 Yes, no? Yes?

Speaker 21 Okay, good.

Speaker 80 Because we have more beefs to settle, including a beef that has something to do with beef.

Speaker 69 And I feel like we need an expert to help us with this.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I agree, Judge Hodgman. Luckily, the two of us happen to know an actual expert on the subject of beef who lives right here in the United Kingdom.

Speaker 3 He's the creator of the Beef and Dairy Network, one of the funniest podcasts in any genre, no matter what meat it concerns.

Speaker 3 It will be recording live tomorrow here at the London Podcast Festival, but we're lucky to have him here with us right now. Please welcome our expert witness, Benjamin Partridge.

Speaker 69 Benjamin Partridge to the stage, please.

Speaker 43 Hello.

Speaker 69 Mr. Benjamin Partridge, thank you for being here.

Speaker 76 Before we hear this beef beef,

Speaker 19 Can you tell us a little bit more about beef so that we have all the information we need to hear the case properly?

Speaker 86 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 86 Let's start with an easy one. Have you guys heard of a beef?

Speaker 3 It's coming through pretty well on the monitors backstage.

Speaker 44 Yeah.

Speaker 86 It's carrying. That's a worrying level of beef awareness, but

Speaker 77 I have got a little PowerPoint that will help some of these people out with.

Speaker 71 During our show?

Speaker 86 Well, this is like a section within your show, which kind of becomes my show.

Speaker 86 It's like diplomatic waters or an embassy.

Speaker 3 Okay, I mean, I assume that we would have to, like,

Speaker 3 we can't.

Speaker 14 Oh.

Speaker 57 Oh, he set it up already.

Speaker 9 Here we go.

Speaker 29 He hacked into our system, it would seem.

Speaker 26 So,

Speaker 86 I'm aware you're not here to see my podcast, but I just thought there's a few facts I'd like to get across to people before you can really get into these cases you've got coming up.

Speaker 12 Yes, I appreciate that.

Speaker 86 The first fact to take away with you, if you learn nothing else from me this evening, it is that in the dictionary, the plural of beef is beeves.

Speaker 10 There it is.

Speaker 10 So there we go.

Speaker 11 Now

Speaker 17 it's a disturbing word on its own.

Speaker 73 And somehow, when it's pixelated that way, it becomes nauseating.

Speaker 86 But also a great name for a baby.

Speaker 11 Beeves.

Speaker 4 If anyone here is expecting.

Speaker 86 Now, I don't know how much people are aware here of how almost any meat in the universe can be categorized into four categories. And really, there are only actually four meats.

Speaker 46 No, I've heard.

Speaker 3 Never mind.

Speaker 86 So,

Speaker 9 are you aware of this?

Speaker 42 I always thought that I think there are more than four meats.

Speaker 10 No, no, so okay.

Speaker 86 Let's explain. So, in the early 1900s,

Speaker 86 there started to be more and more meats discovered. So, you've got venison, for example.

Speaker 13 Right. What do you do with that?

Speaker 86 From a tax perspective, it was a problem, okay? And

Speaker 44 this was

Speaker 86 a sort of newsletter that came out back at the time. It's called the Livestock and Meat Situation.

Speaker 86 And by 1950, this problem of how to tax different meats became an actual problem for tax, like the IRS in America and the HRC here.

Speaker 86 And that's the only two tax

Speaker 86 bodies that I know about. But there are, you'll have one if you come from another country.
And they needed to know how to tax all these different kinds of meats.

Speaker 86 Should there be one tax rate for all meats? That seems mad. So, what they did was they came up with a sort of an idea where all meats could be put into three categories.
So it was either beef,

Speaker 86 lamb,

Speaker 86 or chicken.

Speaker 10 Okay?

Speaker 86 Then, of course, if you know your history, in the 70s, there was another

Speaker 86 edition of this where they realized that really pork is a meat.

Speaker 47 Really, pork is a meat.

Speaker 83 That had been controversial for some time.

Speaker 86 Yeah, they didn't know what to do with it, and they just thought, no, no, no, pork's its own thing.

Speaker 3 Things were changing. Mary Tyler Moore show, et cetera.

Speaker 12 Exactly so, yeah.

Speaker 86 And so, all meats you can think of can be fitted into this taxonomy of meat. So, for example, venison goes in beef.
That is, of course, forest beef.

Speaker 86 Rabbit, hedgerow pork meat, goat, mounted lamb, goose, violent chicken.

Speaker 86 Pheasant, posh chicken, quail, weird chicken.

Speaker 86 Now,

Speaker 86 I know what some of the sharper ones amongst you are thinking.

Speaker 86 Ben,

Speaker 10 what about fish?

Speaker 86 Right, what about fish?

Speaker 4 Hey, Ben. What about fish? Here we go.

Speaker 44 Now,

Speaker 86 this is a live issue, and I've got to say there's no consensus really on how this works.

Speaker 9 Let's do this all together on three, but

Speaker 54 Ben, what about fish? One, two, three.

Speaker 9 Ben, what about fish? Well, I'm glad you asked. Now,

Speaker 86 there's no consensus about this, but if we look at what scientists in general are coming to, you can plot most fish onto this. So, for example, in America you have a tuna called chicken of the sea.

Speaker 86 So, you'd think then that obviously tuna goes into chicken. Wrong, right.
You get tuna steaks, it's beef.

Speaker 86 Then, obviously, salmon is pork, prawns are lamb. It's pretty, once you get into it,

Speaker 86 wait, it starts coming that way.

Speaker 57 Why is it obvious that salmon is pork?

Speaker 47 Sorry? Why is it obvious that salmon is porn?

Speaker 4 Oh, it's right there.

Speaker 44 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 57 Oh, sorry, I didn't see that.

Speaker 41 I was looking somewhere else.

Speaker 86 Sorry, it seems the judge isn't getting the feel of it. It's a feel thing.

Speaker 57 Okay, it's a vibe thing.

Speaker 73 Salmon vibes pork.

Speaker 3 And can I just say, the vibes are pristine.

Speaker 86 If you threw a salmon at a grizzly bear, it would catch it in his mouth. If you threw a pig at a grizzly bear, similar thing.

Speaker 4 That's a great point, Ben.

Speaker 23 I presume this has been tested.

Speaker 86 Now,

Speaker 86 final bit of knowledge for you. Could there ever be a fifth meet?

Speaker 13 Well.

Speaker 55 No, I couldn't.

Speaker 16 I don't know about that.

Speaker 69 I mean, back in 1975, we thought there were only three meats.

Speaker 18 Now we all agree that

Speaker 3 there's no fifth meat.

Speaker 86 There's no such thing as.

Speaker 59 But no.

Speaker 40 Eel.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 86 Eel.

Speaker 40 Eel. Smoked eel.

Speaker 86 Eel. So eel is a kind of aquatic snake, and a snake is a rope of chicken.

Speaker 20 Iguana?

Speaker 86 I don't actually know that one. I guess, let's think about it.

Speaker 86 Again, it's a feel thing. I think it's pork.

Speaker 9 If you threw it at a bear.

Speaker 4 If you threw it at a bear.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 86 the problem with if you threw it at the bear thing is like lots of stuff.

Speaker 40 It would go a similar thing. Lots of stuff becomes pork in that way.

Speaker 4 Oh, I thought the problem was throwing the llama.

Speaker 10 llama?

Speaker 4 Oh, I thought it was the llama.

Speaker 61 No, iguana is what I said.

Speaker 63 Oh, iguana.

Speaker 9 Sometimes they eat. Well, I throw that in.

Speaker 4 Get out of here, iguana.

Speaker 9 Look, I'd throw anything in a bay.

Speaker 23 All right, well, I'll keep thinking about this fifth meat.

Speaker 86 There's no such thing as a fifth meat.

Speaker 23 I think there has to be a fifth meet.

Speaker 10 John,

Speaker 3 we have a case.

Speaker 10 All right.

Speaker 45 Thank you very much, Benjamin Partridge, for your presentation.

Speaker 34 I find this very troubling, but you are the expert after all.

Speaker 54 And I believe that we have a beef beef to hear right now.

Speaker 69 So, Jesse, could you invite the litigants to the stage?

Speaker 3 Please welcome to the stage Tim and Bell.

Speaker 60 Tim and Belle, please come to the stage.

Speaker 3 Tim is a hospice chaplain. He used to have a podcast called God or Whatever, and Jesse was a guest on it one time.
He's a vegetarian. Bell is a graphic designer and is currently not a vegetarian.

Speaker 23 Interesting.

Speaker 20 So, Tim and Bell, what is the podcast that you had or have?

Speaker 92 It was a podcast I did in lockdown, because we all did podcasts in lockdown, right?

Speaker 57 No, no, some of us did it before lockdown.

Speaker 49 Well, that's some of us were actually doing it professionally for some time.

Speaker 20 Well, before it was decided that everyone should do it,

Speaker 92 and there was a little bit of IP theft involved because I called it God or whatever.

Speaker 55 I did this. I did myself.

Speaker 28 Wait a minute.

Speaker 10 Hold on.

Speaker 3 Why did you start a podcast during lockdown? You're not an actor who's much more famous than we are.

Speaker 92 Oh, but my ego says I am.

Speaker 20 No, but you called it God or whatever, which is a reference to the way we swear people in.

Speaker 41 Exactly.

Speaker 51 And the way I see reality.

Speaker 20 And that's very nice.

Speaker 21 And you interviewed Jesse.

Speaker 12 I did. Yeah.

Speaker 43 Yeah. That's good.

Speaker 54 I didn't get an email from you.

Speaker 37 You didn't reply.

Speaker 79 Is that so? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I messaged you both on Instagram.

Speaker 13 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 60 I don't check that very often.

Speaker 10 And the podcast is done now?

Speaker 64 Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm not available anyway.

Speaker 30 So, Bell, you say you are not a vegetarian currently, but it says here that you want to be.

Speaker 12 Is that correct?

Speaker 71 Yep, that's right.

Speaker 35 But it also says that you would like to make one exception to your vegetarianism.

Speaker 50 Is that correct?

Speaker 34 And what would that exception be?

Speaker 25 Steak.

Speaker 44 Ah, ha.

Speaker 69 You want to be a vegetarian, but you want to eat steak.

Speaker 25 Yeah.

Speaker 48 Beef.

Speaker 25 Yeah.

Speaker 57 How often would you eat beef?

Speaker 35 How many beeves would you have in it?

Speaker 83 Like, is this a once-a-year thing on your birthday?

Speaker 25 Probably about as much as I do now, which is once every couple of weeks or so.

Speaker 16 Okay.

Speaker 34 How do you respond to that, Tim?

Speaker 71 What is your opinion on that?

Speaker 92 I mean, it's never been an issue that Bella eats meat, but if you eat steak, you're not a vegetarian.

Speaker 61 You can eat meat,

Speaker 92 but you can't be a vegetarian who eats steak.

Speaker 92 It's not a vegetarian.

Speaker 79 Sorry, sorry.

Speaker 12 So she's,

Speaker 3 maybe you didn't hear. She's a vegetarian, but she eats steak.

Speaker 92 Well, she isn't.

Speaker 40 So I got a text from Belle.

Speaker 92 She'd been at a festival in her friend Martin's Garden called Mart Fest.

Speaker 92 And she got drunk and decided to be a vegetarian.

Speaker 6 Ah.

Speaker 92 But still wants to eat steak, but wants the glory of being a vegetarian.

Speaker 3 Wait, she was an omnivore who got drunk and decided to not eat meat? It's 100% supposed to be the other way around.

Speaker 20 Describe your conversion experience such as it is.

Speaker 25 Well, a lot of my friends.

Speaker 75 First of all, what was the festival that you were trying to buzz market that you were at? I missed it.

Speaker 25 It's not a real festival.

Speaker 3 It was their friend Martin's festival Mar Fest.

Speaker 44 Yeah.

Speaker 11 It's just his birthday party.

Speaker 22 How often does Marfest happen?

Speaker 43 Annually.

Speaker 38 Annually, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 19 Was it like Burning Man this year?

Speaker 45 Did you get rained on and stuck in the mud?

Speaker 37 Elon Musk was there.

Speaker 31 Musk made it to Marfest.

Speaker 6 Very good.

Speaker 17 So you were at Marfest.

Speaker 50 What's going on at Marfest exactly?

Speaker 25 It's just a barbecue, but most of the people there are vegetarians or vegans.

Speaker 21 What's being barbecued then?

Speaker 25 Well, there's a few meat eaters there, but it becomes a bit of a discussion every year.

Speaker 67 And you got a little bit, you got a little bit tipsy. Yeah.

Speaker 43 What were you drinking?

Speaker 32 Just Steak juice. White claw.
You were drinking white claw.

Speaker 25 Oh, yeah, white claw, yeah.

Speaker 10 Oh.

Speaker 42 You can't.

Speaker 3 I'm a teetotaler, except for white claw.

Speaker 35 So you had

Speaker 29 a few too many claws.

Speaker 34 And

Speaker 45 what moved you to become a vegetarian?

Speaker 50 And what does it mean to you to become a vegetarian if you are still eating steak?

Speaker 19 Like, leave the steak thing aside. What will change?

Speaker 25 Well, for me, I think I care about the environmental impact of eating meat, so that would be my motivation for it. But steak's delicious, so

Speaker 25 I don't want to give that up.

Speaker 13 But you will give up all otherwise.

Speaker 73 How often, like how much meat?

Speaker 66 I'll ask Tim.

Speaker 51 How much meat does she eat?

Speaker 92 It's a fair amount.

Speaker 37 Yeah.

Speaker 35 Would this be a major lifestyle change?

Speaker 76 Even if she were to

Speaker 29 be a fairly big lifestyle change, even if she kept steak in the totally.

Speaker 92 It would be a big lifestyle change, and to be clear, I would really support it, but you just couldn't be called a vegetarian. That's all.

Speaker 92 Like, you eat less meat, I'm really up for it, but you can't have the label of vegetarian, in my opinion.

Speaker 76 What would be a great label?

Speaker 17 What's your relationship?

Speaker 37 We're a boyfriend and girlfriend.

Speaker 41 Boyfriend and girlfriend.

Speaker 29 So you get to tell her what she eats and how she describes herself.

Speaker 78 No.

Speaker 9 What would be the appropriate label for

Speaker 41 a steakitarian?

Speaker 92 Just like n normal.

Speaker 13 Just a a low meatitarian?

Speaker 40 Yeah.

Speaker 92 Flex some people say flexitarian, but they're wankers.

Speaker 8 He's a hospital chaplain.

Speaker 78 Hospice, hospice now.

Speaker 44 Hospice. Holy cow.

Speaker 9 That's different. They don't mind.

Speaker 44 We all know they're assholes.

Speaker 18 Danjo and Partridge, do you have an opinion on this as an as an expert on beef and meat in general?

Speaker 86 I guess like I don't have a problem with vegetarians because they're some of the the few people that you can rely on not to be eating lamb.

Speaker 86 But, you know, what are you giving up?

Speaker 86 Pate Wednesdays?

Speaker 86 Like, I want to get a better sense of what you're giving up, actually, because it sounds like, oh, yeah, what are some of the favorite foods that you would be giving up?

Speaker 14 Chicken wings, lamb kebabs.

Speaker 15 Yeah. Sounds good, doesn't it?

Speaker 25 McDonald's, Wendy's. There's so many good meats.

Speaker 3 You know what? I'm with you. Tim, you should eat meat.

Speaker 9 This is backfired.

Speaker 30 Is there a way, Benjamin Partridge, to classify steak as some kind of

Speaker 9 seedy vegetable?

Speaker 44 Yeah.

Speaker 44 Cows are vegetarians.

Speaker 10 Say it again.

Speaker 74 Cows are vegetarians.

Speaker 47 Cows are vegetarians.

Speaker 44 Hang on a second.

Speaker 40 I really think Bella's on to something here.

Speaker 29 I'm a vegetarian.

Speaker 20 I follow the vegetarian diet because I only eat vegetarians.

Speaker 40 This is pretty good, Tim, you have to admit.

Speaker 79 I'm not happy about it. I'm not happy about it.

Speaker 20 Why does it matter to you what she calls yourself, Tim?

Speaker 92 It's Stalin Valor.

Speaker 86 Earlier, Tim, you used the phrase, I think the phrase was the glory of vegetarians.

Speaker 86 That's not a thing.

Speaker 48 I don't think that's a thing.

Speaker 3 No, that's a thing. It's in the Bible.

Speaker 92 It's in the back somewhere.

Speaker 17 Define the glory of vegetarianism for you, Tim.

Speaker 92 Well,

Speaker 92 I mean, you're right, there is no glory. That was probably the wrong word.
But

Speaker 21 it's a sacrifice, right?

Speaker 92 Like, I used to like meat, and then I became a vegetarian, and it was a hard choice that I made. I mean, I feel like I'm really blowing my own trumpet, but that, yeah, yeah, it's a choice.

Speaker 45 And how long have you been a vegetarian?

Speaker 92 Like 10 years.

Speaker 71 All right.

Speaker 65 Yeah.

Speaker 41 Well, well, trumpet blown, Tim.

Speaker 58 Good job. Thanks very much.

Speaker 41 Is there something you wanted to say?

Speaker 25 Tim's a hypocrite.

Speaker 56 Whoa.

Speaker 63 Yes.

Speaker 63 I'll allow it.

Speaker 44 He asked me not to bring this up.

Speaker 93 I can't believe you're doing this.

Speaker 86 He once eats a dog

Speaker 63 on the subway. That eats meat

Speaker 49 a meat-eating dog on the subway

Speaker 25 um tim is a consumer of cod liver oil because i have arthritis

Speaker 10 it's a medical condition i have to take it i'm not happy about it she's got anemia haven't you yeah actually i do

Speaker 73 well wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute you take cod liver oil yes

Speaker 9 not for pleasure

Speaker 16 well i know but but i mean i i don't know.

Speaker 45 Can you even categorize that as meat, or would that not be a kind of fifth meat, Benjamin Parker?

Speaker 9 Where would that fit into your little rubric?

Speaker 64 Cod liver oil, if you will.

Speaker 86 No, that's a secretion. That's a whole different thing.

Speaker 20 All right, Tim, then you are merely a secretist.

Speaker 47 And as for you, Belle,

Speaker 20 I have to say that

Speaker 12 there is no particular glory.

Speaker 66 Well, I'm not going to say that.

Speaker 2 It's wonderful being a vegetarian.

Speaker 22 Being a vegetarian is a very thoughtful way to live.

Speaker 14 It's not for me.

Speaker 2 But I admire those who do eat a vegetarian and a vegan diet and so forth.

Speaker 66 And good for you, Tim.

Speaker 79 Enjoy your glory and your secretionism.

Speaker 20 Thank you.

Speaker 20 But, Belle,

Speaker 75 I just caught between two points here.

Speaker 62 On the one hand,

Speaker 32 Belle would be lying.

Speaker 41 On the other hand, I don't like Tim saying

Speaker 60 that Belle can't be whatever she wants to be.

Speaker 83 So I'm going to say this.

Speaker 19 I really like your solution, Belle, that you only eat vegetarian animals.

Speaker 86 So now lamb is open to you, goats, basically all of them.

Speaker 48 She can't eat wolf.

Speaker 19 I think you should say, I don't eat meat except for vegetarian animals, and also vegetarians are

Speaker 23 This is the sound of a gavel.

Speaker 20 Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Speaker 3 Tim and Bell, let's welcome to the stage Tim and Tamlin.

Speaker 62 Tim

Speaker 45 and Tamlin are now coming to the stage. Thank you for Tim and Bell.

Speaker 31 Now, you come to us from Vancouver, British Columbia.

Speaker 51 Is that so?

Speaker 93 That is so.

Speaker 61 Look at the incredible mic skills on all of these litigants tonight.

Speaker 20 Let me tell you something.

Speaker 10 We've toured all over the world, and nowhere but London do people know.

Speaker 51 Take the microphone and shove it right in your mouth.

Speaker 42 So good job.

Speaker 20 Nah, it's too much, Tim.

Speaker 49 Tamlin, it says in your complaint that 10 years ago, you made the greatest sandwich ever, but Tim refused to eat it.

Speaker 11 That's correct, yes.

Speaker 25 Yes.

Speaker 19 And this has gone on for 10 years.

Speaker 25 Upwards of 10 years.

Speaker 49 Upwards of 10 years.

Speaker 47 Take me back to the day 10 years ago.

Speaker 54 And as we discussed, don't reveal the ingredients of the sandwich.

Speaker 43 Right.

Speaker 69 That's going to be an incredible surprise for the audience.

Speaker 25 It was an ordinary day.

Speaker 49 It was an ordinary day in Vancouver, British Columbia.

Speaker 4 A little bit rainy.

Speaker 21 That's very ordinary.

Speaker 25 And we were having lunch.

Speaker 25 This was before we had children, so we were independent adults making our own lunches for ourselves.

Speaker 25 Tim had made his lunch, he had finished it. I made the best sandwich I've ever made.
I took a bite and just was overcome. And I said, oh, Tim, like you have to try this sandwich.

Speaker 25 It's the best sandwich ever. And he responded with,

Speaker 25 I got a good mouthfeel

Speaker 25 and then refused.

Speaker 69 I've got a good mouthfeel. Yeah.

Speaker 9 I had a really good mouthfeel.

Speaker 44 Don't keep saying it like it means something.

Speaker 17 You refuse to eat the sandwich because you already had, and I quote, a good mouthfeel.

Speaker 45 Explain what you're talking about.

Speaker 93 A really good mouthfeel.

Speaker 77 Yeah,

Speaker 93 I have preferences around textures, and I used to be a very picky eater. I see.

Speaker 93 So I really couldn't, nothing mushy, it just wouldn't work for me.

Speaker 83 Was this a mushy sandwich?

Speaker 25 No, absolutely not.

Speaker 30 Let the record show not a mushy sandwich.

Speaker 12 Go ahead, Tim.

Speaker 93 I guess I don't know the answer if it was or not.

Speaker 93 But I had just eaten, I wish I could recall, but it was something that probably had texture, probably a lot of crunch, something soft, and it was good.

Speaker 93 There was probably some butter in it, and it just left me with a really nice feeling.

Speaker 4 Probably.

Speaker 48 Probably. But

Speaker 93 I was in harmonious bliss. I was in a good state.

Speaker 83 You didn't want to introduce anything that would disturb your already existing good mouthfeel.

Speaker 10 Mouthfeel, thank you. Yeah.

Speaker 14 That's all.

Speaker 22 And so it was just like, you know, just like a little saliva-y, but a little extra, I don't know, you don't remember what you ate, right?

Speaker 20 A little aftertaste of mayonnaise or something.

Speaker 32 That's what I call a good mouthfeel.

Speaker 20 And since then, have you ever tried to make the sandwich again?

Speaker 25 I have. I think that

Speaker 25 the issue was really on that day, the stars aligned.

Speaker 25 All of the ratios were perfect. The crunchiness of the lettuce.

Speaker 25 I mean.

Speaker 47 I happen to have the sandwich here

Speaker 31 made to your specifications.

Speaker 14 Oh.

Speaker 51 And Tim, I'm going to taste this sandwich.

Speaker 45 You say this is the most delicious sandwich ever?

Speaker 25 It was the most delicious sandwich ever. And Tim's refusal to eat the sandwich was very disappointing to me.

Speaker 69 How does that make you feel?

Speaker 93 This was 13 years ago. And it lives on.
The argument lives on. And

Speaker 93 the nickname she's given me is a batty, catty, scaredy mouth because I wouldn't eat the sandwich. Because he had a scaredy mouth.

Speaker 4 I don't know. A little scaredy mouth.

Speaker 31 Batty, catty, scaredy mouth.

Speaker 93 Catalyst for bad things whose mouth fears new flavors, effectively.

Speaker 49 Oh, sure, no, I know the dictionary definition.

Speaker 9 Sorry.

Speaker 47 Catalyst for bad things who avoids new flavors.

Speaker 17 Is this a problem in your life otherwise?

Speaker 93 It was.

Speaker 93 I've grown tremendously, I think.

Speaker 25 I think there, yes.

Speaker 45 What sort of things was Tim avoiding?

Speaker 16 Obviously, mushy.

Speaker 25 Yeah, well, I think that it was sort of in general fear of anything that wasn't sort of.

Speaker 44 Sorry.

Speaker 44 Excuse me.

Speaker 72 Sorry, go on. Very much a

Speaker 25 steak man. So he'd want a steak.

Speaker 9 A vegetarian, you mean.

Speaker 10 I see.

Speaker 23 Yeah.

Speaker 29 What sort of foods are you averse to?

Speaker 93 Nothing now.

Speaker 93 Tamlin.

Speaker 41 Was there any intervention?

Speaker 41 Did you seek any therapy?

Speaker 35 No, I mean, you know, people have food aversions that they have to work through.

Speaker 58 I'm not trying to get a sense of how serious it was.

Speaker 93 Tamlin's family eats a wonderfully diverse array of foods, and eventually, just through enough exposure,

Speaker 93 I grew. I was willing to experience new things, and now I'll kind of eat anything.

Speaker 62 Can you give an example of a thing that you didn't want to have, and then you tried, and now you enjoy it?

Speaker 93 There's an eggplant dish that you can get at Dim Sum that's that's it's it looks really mushy and goopy, but when you actually bite it, I mean it is mushy, but it's got all these other shrimps.

Speaker 93 Oh, shrimps. Oh, it's lovely.
Yeah, and now it's a favorite.

Speaker 9 Does it have a name?

Speaker 93 It does. It does.

Speaker 9 It was a yes or no question.

Speaker 17 And yet you have never tried this sandwich in 13 years.

Speaker 45 You've never tried to make it for him again?

Speaker 25 Well,

Speaker 25 I was fearful of his scaredy mouth. I didn't want to be rejected again.

Speaker 4 Right.

Speaker 45 You've already been burned once

Speaker 62 a non-mushy sandwich.

Speaker 59 All right.

Speaker 54 I'm going to give it a try.

Speaker 30 Shall I give it a try?

Speaker 3 I'd love to hear what you think about the sandwich.

Speaker 4 Wouldn't you guys love to hear about it?

Speaker 69 I mean,

Speaker 61 if there's one thing people who listen to podcasts love, it's people eating on microphones.

Speaker 3 John, what's in the sandwich?

Speaker 20 Well, hang on, let me see if I can detect it first.

Speaker 50 I made it to your specifications.

Speaker 34 So there's mustard.

Speaker 25 Yes.

Speaker 14 There's hummus. Yes.

Speaker 41 Which was interesting.

Speaker 38 And by the way, mushy.

Speaker 57 Just to be fair to say.

Speaker 10 Thank you.

Speaker 11 Hang on.

Speaker 15 You want to get in on us, Tim?

Speaker 9 Yeah, I really do.

Speaker 93 Do you want me to go to the back end, or can I bite where you bid?

Speaker 43 What do you want?

Speaker 10 I'll go the back end.

Speaker 83 This is more than I expected.

Speaker 28 Me too.

Speaker 33 Yep, there's mature cheddar. You want some?

Speaker 15 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Wow.

Speaker 72 Well, I can tell you how closely you approximate it.

Speaker 22 Well, do we remember which side we're eating from?

Speaker 48 No.

Speaker 14 Okay. Go middle.

Speaker 8 Okay, yeah,

Speaker 57 we're back at it, folks. Civilization.

Speaker 9 It's like we've learned nothing.

Speaker 9 No, I've just, I'm going to keep, I want you both to live.

Speaker 57 There was an option.

Speaker 73 There was an time when I was going like Tamlin should bring the sandwich in herself.

Speaker 16 And then I realized, no, no, no, I would like to live.

Speaker 10 I don't know who this person is.

Speaker 45 I don't know what kind of mushrooms you're going to slip into this sandwich.

Speaker 54 Roofy me with your delicious sandwich.

Speaker 29 It's pretty good.

Speaker 12 There's pickle,

Speaker 12 mature cheddar, crispy lettuce.

Speaker 64 Tap lettuce is a little wilty. Wow.

Speaker 47 Tamlin, did you see what happened already here?

Speaker 26 Tim already ate it.

Speaker 93 You got your way.

Speaker 4 Oh, did I win?

Speaker 14 Well, was that a trick?

Speaker 63 You didn't have to eat the sandwich.

Speaker 47 Yay!

Speaker 33 But I don't think, obviously, you're not catty, daddy, maddie, that.

Speaker 9 Yeah, you got it.

Speaker 15 Catty, maddie, scaredy mouse.

Speaker 9 Baddie, catty, scaredy mouthy mouse. Batty, catty, scaredy mouth anymore.

Speaker 46 You can't call him that anymore.

Speaker 2 So in that sense, you win.

Speaker 24 And in this sense, you win too because you got him to taste the sandwich and you got me to taste it too.

Speaker 34 But I still have to decide if this is the most delicious sandwich and I gotta tell you

Speaker 34 there's something I determine is in here I don't don't know what this is

Speaker 34 it's uh let's see it's uh

Speaker 50 oh it's um it's something called turkey turkey

Speaker 83 I feel like it's like a fifth kind of meat

Speaker 10 no no well

Speaker 12 you didn't just have turkey up there Benjamin Partridge, you didn't have turkey on your thing.

Speaker 86 Turkey is simple.

Speaker 86 Turkey is simply robust chicken.

Speaker 4 Now, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, because

Speaker 3 we have an expert here.

Speaker 3 So far, would you say this is the greatest sandwich ever?

Speaker 21 It's a very good sandwich taste.

Speaker 15 Okay.

Speaker 20 And, Tim, you are wrong to not eat it.

Speaker 40 I like it very much, but I've got to be honest with you.

Speaker 16 Here's this. It's not the most delicious sandwich.

Speaker 3 Here's my question.

Speaker 3 Ben, we're lucky enough to have you here. Is there anything we could do to take this sandwich from a very good sandwich to the best sandwich ever?

Speaker 86 Jesse, Judge John. Yes.
Litigans.

Speaker 86 It's our old friend beef.

Speaker 86 Do you want a sausage for my pocket?

Speaker 3 Are those rich beef sausages?

Speaker 9 Rich. Rich.

Speaker 86 Rich beef sausages.

Speaker 57 I'm so glad that you brought

Speaker 40 pocket sausage to the show.

Speaker 49 Yes, Jesse, will you make sure to handle it with all of your fingers too and

Speaker 23 put his pocket sausage into the sandwich and I will eat a 50-50 chance I'll be eating Tim and Tamlin's saliva along

Speaker 30 with this and you'll have to hold it for me Jesse because I've got the microphone.

Speaker 6 Better?

Speaker 57 That makes all the difference.

Speaker 9 It's incredible.

Speaker 15 Thank you very much, Tim and Tamlin.

Speaker 7 Thank you, Ben Partridge, host of the Beef and Dairy Network podcast, the funniest podcast in the world.

Speaker 75 Thank you very much, everybody.

Speaker 94 There's Bailiff Jesse Thorne. I'm Judge John Hodgman.
That's our show.

Speaker 94 Thank you so much for coming to the London Podcast Festival. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Speaker 1 That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. This episode was recorded at King's Place in London for the London Podcast Festival.

Speaker 45 Our producers were Daniel Taylor and Jennifer Marmer.

Speaker 1 Marie Bardi Salinas runs our social media. Congratulations on your marriage.
And don't miss us on tour in October and November. Go to vanfreaksroadshow.com for tickets.

Speaker 1 And if you live in one of the cities we're visiting, send us your disputes. There's a link right there at vanfreaksroadshow.com.
That's vanfreaksroadshow.com.

Speaker 1 We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Blimey.

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