Kanga and Roo Court

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Kanga and Rue Court, Joan brings the case against her younger sister, Barbara.

When Joan was eight, their aunt Jane gave her a present, a framed print of Winnie the Pooh.

Joan hung it in the bedroom she shared with Barbara, but she left it behind when she got her own room.

Now it's 50 years later, and Barbara says the Pooh print belongs to her.

Joan wants it back.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Pooh, in particular, stands out in this regard, as while he was a silly old bear that misinterpreted words and thought simply, he did take the time.

to think when faced with problems, leading to some surprisingly philosophical conversation and reasoning.

Meanwhile, this version of Pooh is a killer who can't grasp that a child who left didn't mean to abandon them.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

You messed up my joke that I was about to make.

Oh, no.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever?

Or whatever, do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his favorite Winnie the Pooh character is Gopher?

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Gopher, of course, being the character on The Love Boat played by Fred Grandi, later a Republican member of the United States Congress, who also happened to be the father of my friend from college, Mariah Grandi, who listens to the show and is still belting out those beautiful show tunes in Chicago, Illinois.

Hi, Mariah Grandi.

I hope you're doing really well.

Meanwhile, Joan and Barbara, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced when I entered the courtroom?

I'm going to give you a hint.

You know what?

I've changed my mind.

I'm not going to give you a hint.

Joan?

Come on.

I don't.

All right.

All right.

All right.

Fair enough.

Fair is fair.

The quote was from a website.

The quote was from a website, but it was about a piece of culture.

Any guess, Joan?

What's your guess?

No, none.

I can't imagine Winning the Pooh as a monster.

You can't imagine Winning the Pooh as a monster.

So guess something else.

How about Goodnight Moon?

Do you mind if I suggest a guess?

Please do.

It's related.

It's related.

And what about you, Barbara?

What's your guess?

Okay, so

Goodnight Moon, you said is related?

Yes, it is, but that one is taken.

Oh.

Joan guessed that one.

Oh, okay.

I am also at a loss.

Okay, I'm going to suggest two things.

You pick which one you want to guess.

Okay.

The Runaway Bunny or The Murder of Roger Ackeroid.

I'm going with The Runaway Bunny for two.

The Runaway Bunny.

Both books by Margaret Wise Brown.

Author of the book The Wonderful House, which is, of course, the source of the quote, all guesses are wrong.

You're both wrong.

Midnight Moon is wrong.

Runaway Bunny is wrong.

Even The Murder of Roger Ackerroyd is wrong.

What all of those books have in common, however, is that they all have recently come into the public domain.

Specifically, The Murder of Roger Aykroyd came into the public domain last year.

Both of the Margaret Wise-Brown books come into the public domain this year, 2023.

What book also came into the public domain in January of 2022?

Joan, you're making a...

a gesture that suggests that you know what I'm talking about.

Joan, what is the answer?

That would be Winnie the Pooh by A.

A.

Miln.

That is absolutely correct, but it does not win you the case, unfortunately.

Not yet.

And what happened when Winnie the Pooh came into the public domain?

Well, John, it led to Winnie the Pooh's most famous adaptation, the film Winnie the Pooh, Blood and Honey.

That is great.

Which I went to see in a movie theater last week.

Oh, no, you didn't, did you?

I was obliged to by a member of my family.

Oh, no.

Yeah, it is a horror film based on Winnie the Pooh, in which Winnie the Pooh and Piglet

conspire to murder a bunch of people because they're upset that they were abandoned by Christopher Robin.

I want to be very, very clear.

I watched the trailer for this movie out of perverse curiosity.

I was disturbed by it and not amused in any way.

And

may I guess that the movie is bad and not worth seeing?

I think whether it is worth seeing depends on your taste.

It is not to my taste.

I was impressed at how not bad it is.

Really?

It is very brutal

and unrelentingly dark.

It is a very grim film.

It is not goofy or evil, dead, e

or fun,

but it is very competently made, good-looking, and well-acted for a tiny budget horror film.

So yes,

there's a guy in England who the moment that Winnie the Pooh came into the public domain, decided to

make a Winnie the Pooh movie in which Winnie the Pooh and Piglet are murderers.

And that is called Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey.

Absolutely correct.

So that gives us license to do whatever we want on this podcast.

And listeners, if you have ideas for

an edgy,

gritty remake of Goodnight Moon or The Runaway Bunny or The Murder of Roger Aykroyd, Now's your chance.

Let us know what you're working on.

I won't steal your IP.

If you come up with a good idea and send it in, I might read it, but I won't steal it.

It'll be copyright you.

But meanwhile, let's get to the case.

Who seeks justice before me in this court?

I do.

That would be Joan.

And Joan, you are the elder sister to Barbara.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

Okay.

And so I actually, I'm looking at you here on my teleconferencing.

I will move your screen to the top of the pile so that you are above Barbara because she is your younger sister.

Thank you.

Sorry about that.

That is completely appropriate.

Completely appropriate, is what I was thinking, too.

Joan, what is the nature of your dispute with Barbara?

It's not that we shared a bedroom as children, but we did.

From

up until about the age of 10, we shared a bedroom.

And

we had an aunt.

She's since passed.

And she wasn't the nicest person in the world.

This would be your Aunt Jane.

Not to be confused with my Aunt Jane.

Do you have one as well?

I do, and she is the nicest person in the world.

But not, I have to say, Aunt Jane, not my favorite aunt.

I love all my aunts equally.

Beth, Jane, Judy, Janice, Susan.

I love you all equally.

Aunt Jane's been out there peddling this story that she was always my favorite aunt.

And I'm just here to say, officially for the record, I don't play favorites.

All right.

Sorry, your Aunt Jane, though, is a jerk.

Well, she wasn't the nicest person, and she only ever gave me one thing, which was this print of Christopher Robin and Winnie the Pooh standing at a bridge, and she hand-colored it with colored pencils, and she gave it to me in a frame, and it hung in our shared line.

What a creep she was to do this.

To only give you this one piece

of loving, lovingly.

Well, I mean, in many ways, she's the same as the guy who made Blood Nunn.

She took this original IP and then put her own twist on it.

She did.

With colored pencils.

But naturalistic hues.

Naturalistic hues.

So she did this nice thing for you.

That's right.

She hung it in the room that you shared with your younger sister, Barbara.

That's right.

Yep.

And so what's the issue?

I mean, that was.

I got my own room eventually.

And poor Barbara, her room was...

It should have been a hallway because the two bedrooms on that floor, we walk through that bedroom to get to the stairs.

It's a very, very old house.

So I left it when I got my own room.

I left it behind because it didn't go with the decor of my hip new,

you know, only room.

How old were you when you moved to your new room?

So this would have been, I would have been 10

years old.

So it was 10 years old.

It was time to put aside childish things.

Well, not put them aside altogether, but leave them in the child's room.

Leave them with the child, Barbara.

That's right.

So I passed it by every single day.

So it was still mine because there it was right by the stairs, and I saw it every day.

I went to college after that.

Yes.

And I assumed that the print would have stayed where it was in our childhood room.

But years and years later, I went to a party at my sister's house.

How many years later, would you say?

25?

20?

Decades later.

Let's just say.

Decades later.

We were adults.

You were adults at the time.

We were drinking, in fact.

And I found the print.

She was having a party.

It's kind of like a Joan and Barbara party then.

That's right.

There's nothing like a drunk Barbara, honestly.

So

I found the print at her house and

probably just started yelling right away.

We had a dispute.

At this point, you were adults.

She had moved into her own home.

And you're both in Maryland now.

Maryland is a state in the United States.

We've always been in Maryland.

We've never been anywhere else but Maryland.

We've always been a couple of mid-Atlantic gals.

That's us, Mid-Atlantica.

Right.

And so when I found the print in her house, I yelled at her.

I told her that it was mine.

So she thought we should resolve the dispute as quickly as possible.

So she picked up the phone and she called my parents.

It was 1:30 in the morning.

So

my dad answered the phone, assuming that someone was dead.

And the look on my sister's face is one of my favorite memories of all time when my father answered the phone.

So we got my mother on the phone and Barbara asked her the question, did Aunt Jane give this print to Joan?

And my mother said, yes.

At which point my sister, in typical little sister fashion, went, nuh-uh.

And then my mother said, that my mother said, well, maybe not.

Maybe it was to both of you.

At which point she took that as affirmation and rubbed it in my face.

But it's lies.

Let the record show the deployment of a very powerful legal argument of nu-uh.

Suspicious.

It's a go-to in the

legalese of the Weber family.

And so you got a muddled decision from your mother.

That's right.

Because she was cowed by Barbara's nu-uh.

Often continues to be cowed by Barbara's nu-uh.

Right.

So now you've turned to me as a final authority to decide.

I think that makes sense, ultimately.

The next time I saw it was she then had

a child,

a little girl, my only niece.

And I found it at her house and I started the argument again, at which point she deployed the second most popular legal argument of baby sisters, which is, how could you do that to my daughter?

It's her most favorite thing in the world.

She's just a baby.

You can't take it from her.

And I

buckled at that point.

And now

she is 21 years old.

The nieces.

The nieces.

And I believe that it is time for Winnie the Pooh to come home to where he is most loved with me.

Now, you say most loved.

I do.

And Barbara, I will hear your case in a moment.

I saw you leaning in.

You are ready to go.

You are almost literally loaded for bear.

I have taken a screenshot of both sisters, including Barbara, who is wearing what looks like the skin of Winnie the Pooh.

It's some kind of Winnie the Pooh-like costume or outfit, but it looks like you, it looks like, oh, it's like a hoodie.

Okay, it's a Winnie the Pooh hoodie.

It's a onesie.

Wear the hood, a onesie no less, but the hood is a Winnie the Pooh face.

So you look like

you look like an old bear trapper of old-timey times

who skinned Winnie the Pooh and are wearing the bear skin on your head.

Yeah, John, this is goes far beyond what you're describing.

Certainly she looks in the frame of our view like an old-time bear hunter who is wearing a bear head on top of his head.

But again, this is a onesie.

She looks like she has completely flayed Winnie the Pooh, removed his flesh,

and donned his skin head to toe.

Right.

My husband told me not to wear it.

Now I know why.

It's like

the cozy goth of Grizzly Adams wear.

It's like A.

A.

Milne meets Braveheart.

Frankly, it's more terrifying than Blood and Honey, with Winning the Pooh.

It's really hot, too.

Well, you should feel free to take it off because it's definitely scaring me.

I mean, you can pull

the hood down.

Although wearing a Winnie the Pooh

cowl or blankie over your head while recording is, of course, industry standard, how you record voiceover auditions.

That's what I'm saying.

Pretty good.

It was good for acoustics, but not good for your comfort.

But I just want to contend for a moment, Barbara, before you get to speak your piece with Joan here.

You say that this is a beloved childhood artifact and it should be returned to the house in Maryland where it is most loved,

which is your house in Maryland.

And yet you left it behind decades ago.

I did.

Much like Christopher Robin left...

Pooh and Piglet behind in the movie Blood and Honey.

And then they got so mad that they turned into murderers.

Sadistic murderers, specifically.

Right.

Well, I do have an answer for that.

And it is the childhood home.

Oh, you inherited the childhood home.

Well, we all live

at the childhood home in a way.

The property was about 20-some acres, and part of it was divided off, and Barbara's house is on that property.

And then the old house, the family house, as my parents got older, my husband and I added on to that house, making it a duplex.

So we all do live on this weird little commune.

This is getting more frightening by the moment.

We should have sent you a picture.

It's very beautiful.

I'm sure that it is.

But let me clarify.

The house that you currently occupy is the house where your original childhood bedroom was, where this thing was hung.

It's attached to that house.

It's attached, but you're closer to it than Barbara is.

I am all of about 200 yards closer to it than Barbara is because her house is up the hill.

You know what, Joan?

Yeah.

You really painted a lot of word picture there describing the property in Maryland,

the nature of the compound, the nature of the extensions.

Yep.

I mean, I'm surprised you didn't bring up easements and borderlines and having the land surveyed.

I bet you could.

I I could.

But do you know what I have to say to that?

Nuh.

Nuh.

Nuh, that matters.

You left it behind and you know it.

Stop.

That's right.

Stop.

Barbara, you talk now.

Okay.

Joan left the print behind and you with it.

Yeah, exactly.

She left me with my crazy parents.

Just kidding.

For the record, I don't have a good memory of when she showed up to that party.

I was a little bit buzzed.

And

this Winnie the Pooh has been in, was in my bedroom my whole childhood.

So I really did assume it was mine.

So Joan went off to college, didn't take it with her.

I went off to college, and I will say, I didn't take it just like she said, it would have been cool in my college dorm, although I did decorate with Snoopy, so I probably could have.

But

then, when I moved to my kind of grown-up house, that's when I took it.

Now, Joan did live in a grown-up house before I did, so she could have easily, at any point, come and gotten it from our house.

But I took it because in my mind, it was mine.

And my mom didn't say that I couldn't take it.

So

mom didn't say.

So I took it.

So then, you know, when I'm in my 20s, she says it's hers.

And I am shocked because I'm like, what are you talking about?

Like in my brain, it's always been mine.

So fast forward, I forgot about this whole night.

She's also talking about when she talked to me about my daughter and my daughter had it in her room.

I also don't remember that conversation.

I don't know why.

I don't.

I really honestly don't remember that at all.

So when she contacted me about this podcast, in my mind, I still thought that this was mine.

The Winnie the Pooh print was mine.

Have you ever considered

a career in politics?

Because I think that you could probably withstand any congressional hearing simply by saying.

I was drunk.

And also mom didn't say it was wrong.

So I would say that I have actually written her name into as a write-in candidate for school board.

I think that would be good.

What do you do for a living instead, if I may ask, Barbara?

I'm a children's librarian.

A children's librarian.

So indeed you work with children's books like

Winnie the Pooh.

Exactly.

Do you have a job that connects you to children's literature in the same way?

I'm an English teacher.

Wow.

At what level, if I may ask?

At the upper school level and the college level.

You can say high school level.

I can.

Yeah, we call it an upper school.

You can't strike me with your word salad.

It's private school talk.

I teach at a private high school.

She's trying to convey that her students wear those little blue wool shorts.

Exactly that.

Just like Christopher Robin, for example.

Just like Christopher Robin.

I see.

Okay.

Well, you both, thank you for the work that you both do in those honorable professions.

You're welcome.

Let me ask you a question, just to clarify this for a second.

I just want to get this timeline down.

Joan, you moved out, went to college.

You left your younger sister, Barbara, behind.

There are

two or three years between you, would you say?

Three.

Three years between you, okay.

And then, Barbara, you still slept in that childhood room with that print of Winnie the Pooh and Piglet and Christopher Robin.

Of course, we will be featuring that on our show page at maximumfund.org, as well as on our Instagram at judgejohnhodgman on Instagram, because the IP is free now.

We'll do whatever we want.

IP freely.

That's exactly right.

Then did you, what did you, did you move out to go to college or something after that, Barbara?

Yes.

Did you take it with you or did you leave it behind?

So I left it behind because, you know, I had...

I also left it behind.

Well, I will say that we had, you know, concrete walls or whatever in college, and we had very strict orders that we couldn't, you know, put nails in the wall.

You had to use tape, you know, that sticky tape.

And I would not have been able to hang that in my dorm.

And I knew that, I think.

Because it was framed.

Because it's framed and it's heavy.

Oh, I knew.

Right.

And you went to college at the College of

Survival Bunker Construction in

Southeast Maryland.

All right.

So you left it behind.

When did you reclaim it?

I reclaimed it when I was 22 and moved in

with my friends and got my own room.

So you were like, okay, I'm in my own room now.

I'm 22.

I'm starting my life.

I got some drywall.

I've got a stud finder.

I know how to hang a picture now.

I'm a grown-up.

Yep.

I'm going to go back to that house and grab that thing.

Yep.

Grab that print.

And Joan.

At this point, you were 24, 25.

Had you given a thought to this thing?

Yeah, it was was always at home.

It was part of home.

But did you ever think to yourself, I mean, did you make your home for yourself at this point after college?

Oh, I did.

Yes.

I was in Baltimore at this point.

Charm City, the city that reads.

That's right.

And at any point when you were setting up house in Baltimore, did you think to yourself or say to anyone or write in a letter that you then sealed and mailed to yourself to establish evidence, I can't wait to hang the Winnie the Pooh print in my new home here in Charm City, Baltimore.

No.

No, because to me, it was.

Did you ever have any intention of reclaiming it?

To me, it belonged at home.

It was from the childhood bedroom, and it should be there.

Anytime I went up the stairs from then on, Winnie the Pooh and Christopher Robin should be there.

And why should it be there?

Well, because it's part of

your childhood history, and you leave that at home.

One's childhood history.

I believe you're mistaking that Winnie the Pooh print with a poster for Casablanca and then another poster of the cover for Amphigore, the Edward Gorey collection.

We have the Gorey in common, but we definitely had different childhood bedrooms.

That was weird.

But for me, it was, you know, you turn your childhood into a little bit of a shrine, and Winnie the Pooh belonged there because it was in that room that our mother read us every single Winnie the Pooh story and read us every single poem.

And in high school, when I did oral interpretation, I did Winnie the Pooh stories.

When I was in college and I was finding myself, I found the Tao of Poo.

I mean,

Winnie the Pooh is a constant in my life.

He's my favorite childhood character.

And so for me, it was part of the childhood home.

And then she tore apart the shrine.

You just felt better feeling that it was there, even though

you were not there to look at it.

That's right.

Right.

And of course, the other thing is that it is the sole piece of Winnie the Pooh merchandise available on earth.

It's the only way to remind yourself of Winnie the Pooh and feel a connection to it.

It was the moment in my life that this aunt was nice to me around something that was really culturally important to me.

I mean, Winnie the Pooh

is my guy.

Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Barbara, you mentioned that when you went to college, you decorated your bunker, your concrete bunker, with Snoopy.

Snoopy-themed.

You had moved on.

I'm just going to come back.

Yes.

What are we talking about?

Well, tell him.

Tell him.

Tell him.

I had Snoopy bedspread and curtains and

a Snoopy stuffed Snoopy.

You still have a stuffed Snoopy on your bed, the same stuffed Snoopy that I sewed the mouth back on because a dog had ripped it off.

It's the same Snoopy.

You still have it in your bed.

I don't have it in my bed,

but I do have it in my bedroom.

Joan, you mentioned that when you left for college, you did not take the print with you, the Winnie the Pooh print with you.

Instead, you probably decorated your college dorm room with other things.

What were your posters?

I had no decorations on my walls.

Take on me by aha.

I had a roommate who was in charge of all decorations, and she was really classy.

So we had fuzzy rugs and grass mats and you know important art on the walls.

Fuzzy rugs and grass mats.

Yeah.

What were you glamping through college?

It was the 1980s.

Do you remember one poster that you had on your dorm room whether or not you chose it?

I had a poster of Baryshnikov.

Baryshnikov.

That's a good dorm room poster.

It really is.

Jesse Thorne, do you have a really good dorm room poster?

At one point, I had our entire dorm room door covered in 1987 Don Russ baseball cards.

That's pretty good.

On April Fool's, someone moved them all to my neighbor's door, and I never found out who.

Whoa, college prank.

In fact, it was the door of our friend Dan Grayson who made the presentation for our live tour recently.

For our Frontier Justice presentation?

Yeah.

It's fantastic.

Huh.

Someday we'll solve that mystery.

By the way, the Hardy Boys are in the public domain now, so get them on the case.

First three Hardy Boys.

Wow.

Valerie Moffat, did you ever have a cool dorm room poster or something like that?

No, so I never lived in a dorm in college, but my childhood bedroom at the time, which I was still living in,

this was before I had escaped the male lifestyle, as it were, was pretty much plastered top to bottom with Led Zeppelin posters.

So it it was pretty cool.

It's pretty cool.

It's pretty cool.

Valerie,

when your gender was affirmed, did you like switch to indigo girls posters or something?

No, Kate Bush.

Got it.

Also very cool.

I already outed myself with my Casablanca poster.

Barbara, did Aunt Jane, tell me about Aunt Jane.

Did Aunt Jane ever give anything to you?

She never gave anything to me.

She had a son my age, so I was at her house a lot.

And so I.

So she had every opportunity to show generosity to you, but she did not.

Yes, correct.

Did she have a special relationship with Joan, i.e.,

she played favorites?

I don't think so.

I don't know what happened the day she gave that to Joan.

I always thought it was mine, so

I don't know the backstory to whether she gave it to her for her birthday or when she was born.

I don't know.

Do you agree that Aunt Jane was not the nicest person to use?

100%.

I agree.

Can you give me an example of how she was not particularly nice?

So she

would refer to her daughter's boyfriend as Puke.

That's what she called him.

Wow.

So that's just one of the many things I remember about.

What was she like?

Was she harsh?

Was she was she cruel?

Was she mean?

Was she like the aunts in James and the Giant Peach?

Not to that extent.

She just, she wasn't very nice.

She wasn't like a nurturing, you know,

it's not a milk and cookies kind of aunt who knits little things for you.

She had a very good wit, though, and she was very sarcastic.

And when you're young, you don't understand sarcasm.

So,

you know, I guess she thought she was funny sometimes, but

she was funny.

She used to give something to one sister, but not give anything to the other sister.

Right.

That sounds right.

That kind of fun joke.

There's a daughter who's close to my age.

So we have, you know, the two of us, Elizabeth is only literally a couple of weeks younger than I am.

And then Jonathan is about a month older than Barbara.

But Elizabeth was never allowed to spend the night at our house

because we were, she called us ragamuffins.

We were too,

we were two sort of farm kids.

We were, We liked to play outside and get dirty, and she preferred cutoffs to be hemmed.

So I think that gives you a sense of who she was.

Do you remember when she gave the print to you, Joan?

I do.

Tell me about what happened.

Well, it was, it was kind of, I don't want to say that it was a moment where she and I bonded and we expressed our love for one another and she said, I want you to have.

I don't need you to tell me the aboutness.

That's my job, to figure that out.

Just tell me the details of of what happened, just the facts, ma'am, as they say.

It was a very matter-of-fact moment.

They came to the house for Thanksgiving, and she just gave it to me.

That was it.

I wasn't her saying something to you?

No.

She wouldn't have.

She would have just given it to me.

Was it wrapped?

Oh, no, not at all.

It was just

giving it to you.

Yes.

Did she say, this is for you?

Make sure your sister never gets her dirty farm and paws on it.

You know, now that you mention it, I believe that she might have said that.

Let me, yes.

No, she didn't.

You're under oath.

I know.

She didn't say that.

I doubt that she said it.

I object to myself for leading the witness, and I sustain my own objection.

Did she say this is for you?

I'll remind you you're under oath.

Yeah, I don't remember her saying anything.

I remember her giving me the print with the frame, and honestly, that was, it was a big deal because I'd never had, like, I'm a little kid.

I'd never had a framed print before.

And I knew that she had hand, I don't know how I knew that she had hand-colored it, but I did.

And it was really a moment where I thought she did care.

And then,

but in that moment, I do remember it because she had never given me anything before, and she would never give me anything again after that.

What room were you in?

We were in the hallway, so the door is on the side.

I need to see blueprints shown.

I'm an imagist.

Okay, I respect that.

I understand.

Go ahead, Zillow it up for me.

Let me hear the whole landscape of the house.

Well, no, that would take too long because I'd have to go into the construction that happened on that side of the house to create a door.

There's a lot to it.

But we were in the entrance hallway between the front door and the kitchen.

And was there anyone else there?

I actually, I don't remember that.

There must have been because Thanksgiving at the Weber household is just dozens of people.

So there had to have been other people there.

But in your memory, it was a private moment between

Shane and you.

It was.

And I just ask, is it possible that

she might have confused you for someone else, like her own daughter,

another cousin.

I know you have an older sibling too.

We do, yeah.

Definitely not him.

Do you think that this was a gift for you or for the child who happened to be standing there?

No, so now you're breaking my heart, John Hodgman, because

I believe, so there's a lot of psychological stuff with this because as a child, you don't expect grown-ups to not like you.

It's just a really kind of surprising thing.

So she would say these terrible things to me, you know, sort of all the time, commenting on my appearance.

You know, she called my hair or rat's nest because I had just been outside playing.

So this, this was, this was one of those moments where it was like, she, she likes me, you know, she actually likes me.

And then it was gone.

So, you know, the

that moment does ring true in my head, but it was like it's that that's why is because I thought something had changed I thought that now

you know she would be nice to me but no and had something changed no I think if you if I were to guess what happened is that she just made two and like oh you can have it you girl you're close to Elizabeth's age you here here you go oh she

may have made one for you know, done two, made one for her own daughter.

Right.

And then cast this one off to to you.

Right.

It may, so you're acknowledging it may not have meant to her what it meant to you in that moment.

Oh, more than acknowledging.

It's one of those moments in life that you have to accept that it did mean more to me.

Oh, no, it's okay.

I'm sorry that that's an ambiguity that you have to live with.

I understand, but I know it sounds genuinely painful.

I mean, I get, I'm sorry that Aunt Jane was a jerk.

Oh, we can't, we can't say that.

We can't say she was a jerk because we have to understand her life.

But that's another story, John Hodgman, that you don't need.

Absolutely.

I'm very sorry that Aunt Jane left you wondering how you felt about her.

Thank you.

Which is a jerky thing to do.

Yeah, there you go.

That's what I will say.

More jerky.

Yeah, that is

true.

This isn't to suggest that there isn't an Aunt Jane point of view to this whole thing.

Obviously, there's context that I'll never get because Aunt Jane is no longer with us, I presume, right?

That's true.

We could have resolved this.

And just to be clear, none of your cousins wants this piece of art, right?

No.

It's just between you and Barbara at this point.

Yeah, our brother isn't interested in it either.

He doesn't care.

He doesn't care.

Fine.

He would be here if he cared.

Exactly.

What's his name?

David.

Typical David.

Yep, honestly.

We call him Prince David.

Oh,

rough.

I was just thinking, this is a total Prince David move.

Yeah.

I actually called him Jesus Christ when we were in high school.

He was so perfect.

So,

Barbara,

you have a daughter, is that correct?

Yes.

She grew up with this print?

From the time she was born.

It was in her childhood room.

Right.

Because you had taken it, showed it off at this party.

Joan tried to reclaim it.

You said, nu-uh.

Joan didn't get it back then.

Correct.

You kept it, went on, had a child, and it was now part of her childhood room.

Yes.

What does she feel about it?

I don't know if I can speak for her, but please try.

I would love to say she would be devastated if it wasn't in her room, but honestly,

I can't speak for her.

Have you asked her?

I haven't.

I should have.

But maybe I didn't didn't want to know.

I don't know.

I will say.

Let me ask you this question.

Yes.

Do you have her telephone number?

I do.

Do you have the ability to text her right now?

Yes.

All right.

Would you please text her and ask her how she would feel if her aunt Joan were to take the poo print away?

All right.

I will text her.

As Joan knows, she doesn't often answer her texts, but I will try.

She's in college.

No, no, completely.

I understand about college-aged children forgetting that you exist and refusing to answer even the most simple questions by text until you feel completely erased and despairing.

But I will say you should add to your message before you, have you sent the first one?

I did.

Send one more quick message.

Okay.

And this message should be:

if you do not reply in the next next 10 minutes, I will presume the answer is, I don't care.

Okay.

I'm setting a timer.

Sent.

All right, timer is going.

Is your daughter your only child?

No.

So I have

a son who is two years younger than my daughter.

Do you anticipate that he feels a connection to this food print?

I definitely do.

So I could.

I feel pretty strongly if I would ask him this question that he would

not be happy about it leaving the house.

Follow-up question.

Do you find the term poo print as disgusting as I do?

Yes.

All right.

Pretty amazing that AML got away with calling the character a poo.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It was 1926.

I know that that was a long time ago, but surely poo meant a poo

even then.

I do have, right?

I think so.

Whatever the case.

So you're saying you think your son would be upset too?

Yes.

So he nightly listens.

Have you any evidence?

Have you any evidence that he has a particular connection to this print?

I have evidence that he has a connection to Winnie the Pooh, A.A.

Melanie.

And so therefore, I assume he has a connection to this print because we also played Pooh Sticks all the time when they were little, which is what I was saying.

I didn't think it could get grosser than the print.

You bring poo sticks into the conversation.

Jesse Thorne?

Judge Hatchman.

I think it's going to be one of the top-rated episodes among Oscar Thorne.

Among the audience of Oscar Thorns.

And his ilk.

So you also play Pooh Sticks, which is a game, a Winnie the Pooh game.

Right.

And that's what's depicted in the print.

It's Christopher Robin and Winnie the Pooh and Piglet playing Poo Sticks on a bridge.

You're on a bridge, you drop a twig into moving water.

Yes.

Below you, and then what happens?

And then you run over to the other side of the bridge to see whose stick is in the lead.

I see.

So it's not like the game picks up sticks.

No.

No.

It's not like you're trying to pick up sticks or let me put it this way, grasping at straws the way you are right now, trying to make an argument.

What?

Well, everyone loves Winnie the Pooh.

That doesn't mean you have evidence that he's particularly connected to this thing and it wasn't in his childhood bedroom, correct?

That is correct.

She, okay,

I have an answer.

Don't give me the answer yet.

Don't give me the answer yet.

Let's take an emergency break.

You won't get to hear what Isabella says until I tell you to watch up here on Hulu, March 24th.

Make sure to watch up here starring May Whitman, Carlos Valdez, and featuring various other actors who are very, very skilled.

And then also me rounding out the cast up here on Hulu, March 24th.

But hold now for that answer still, because I want to ask Joan a question.

Joan, this is a personal question.

I hope you don't mind if I ask.

I don't mind.

Do you have children?

I have one daughter.

Yes.

You have one daughter in a house.

And what is her age or ball market for me?

24.

She's 24.

Also an adult at this point.

Does she have a connection to this particular print?

No.

No connection.

I appreciate your answering honestly, swiftly.

without making up a connection to try to win the case and without resorting to descriptions of foundations and

where the well is on your property or whatever.

I could.

I know.

I appreciate your fairness.

Appreciate your honesty.

This is the thing I want to ask you, Joan.

And we don't know Isabella's answer just yet.

You are an aunt to Isabella.

How would you have felt

if some years, maybe decades

after Aunt Jane gave you this print,

she came to your home and said,

Actually, I want that back.

I want that back.

I meant to give it to someone else, or I decided I just want it back.

How would you have felt if you had grown up with this in your bedroom?

How would you have felt about your aunt if Aunt Jane had done that to you?

So I need to do some clarification and some contextualization.

I mean, someone

who grew up with a jerky aunt.

Isabella did not grow up with a jerky aunt.

Isabella grew up with an aunt who adores her.

So my point would be that Isabella also comes down to the family home and she would be able to visit it there as often as she wished.

So you're saying that you are so unlike Aunt Jane that the comparison I'm making is inapt.

I have to say that it threw me.

I'm finding it very difficult to compare myself to Aunt Jane.

I think that if you had asked Aunt Jane a single thing about my life, she would not have been able to answer it.

But I can tell you an awful lot about Isabella because we're actually pretty tight.

Barbara, will you affirm or do you deny that Aunt Joan is not Aunt Jane, even though those names almost sound very much alike?

I know.

It's confusing, but I will affirm that Aunt Joan is nothing like Aunt Jane.

She doesn't have a history of doing jerky things?

No.

All right.

It's hard to say that, but no.

Well,

before I consider my verdict,

we will have to hear from Isabella, but before that, let me ask, Joan, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

I would have you rule that the print goes back where it was in our childhood bedroom.

Back to the original room.

Who sleeps there now?

Nobody.

Barbara, what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor?

I would have you rule that it stays in the house of the person who has thought it belonged to her for her whole life.

Thinking is nine-tenths of possession, is what you're saying.

Nine-tenths of the law.

Thinking I own it is nine-tenths of the law.

Exactly.

She's using a legal corollary of Harold Hill's think system.

That's exactly what I'm doing.

Well established already in the field of music.

This is an extension.

Is there treble right here, right here in Maryland City?

So it appears.

A capital T, that rhymes with P and that stands.

Stands for Pooh.

Stands for Pooh.

Gross.

All right.

I do have to hear this evidence before I make my verdict.

Would you please read me the text that Isabella wrote back to you?

Yes.

Barbara, and you swear that this is true.

I swear that it's true.

Do you want me to read what I wrote to her so you know I didn't try to sway her?

Yes, read me the messages you wrote to her.

Okay.

And then read her response, please.

Oh, but before you do,

Up Here premieres on Hulu, March 24th.

Please check it out.

It's a really, really fun romantic comedy musical set in 1999, starring the incredible May Whitman and Carlos Valdez.

All right, here we go.

Okay.

So I said, How would you feel if Aunt Joan gets the Winnie the Pooh print?

If you do not respond in the next 10 minutes, I'll assume you're okay if she takes it.

She responded, ha ha, oh gosh, would be sad, but would understand why so urgent.

My order to you, Barbara, is leave Isabella on red.

Let her tolerate some ambiguity for a little while.

Love it.

And I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Joan, how did it feel to hear that text?

It sounds exactly like what Isabella would say.

It sounds exactly right.

It wouldn't make me sad, but if that's what needs to happen, then that's what should happen.

Barbara, what was it like for you?

Yep.

That I was not at all surprised.

She's very diplomatic.

Joan, why so urgent?

Well,

it clearly is not urgent.

It has been a long-standing thing, but I feel as though it's time for me to give up ancient grudges through the act of justice.

Barbara, do you feel ready to release these grudges?

I

didn't really have grudges

about this.

I mean, because for whatever reason, I must be burying it, and it's all new every time she brings it up again.

I mean, we know what's going on here.

You're drinking to excess.

Yes.

She has a wonderful dissociative quality where she doesn't remember a lot of bad things that happened.

She doesn't remember us fighting as children.

And she doesn't remember these kinds of things.

So it's an interesting.

It's all new every time.

It's just like Henry Fonda.

Joan, Barbara, this is material for that couples therapy podcast where

the immoral therapist puts couples therapy onto a podcast.

Okay, well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about this when we come back in just a moment.

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break, and I want to open by mentioning

that people will have have the chance to watch you on their televisions on Hulu

March 24th on the hit television program up here.

I just got my reviewer copies.

I'm excited to watch them.

I got them in my email inbox today.

You did?

I did.

That's terrific.

I'll watch anything, anything that involves my good friend,

Bobby Lopez and his wife, Kristen Anderson-Lopez.

Your stuff I'm ambivalent about, but Bobby and Kristen, I'm in.

Yeah, no, Bobby and Kristen are, you've heard them on the podcast.

They're two of the sweetest people, two of the smartest people, and obviously two of the finest composers of show music in this world that we live on.

They've assembled a cast and crew of Broadway greats to film for you a really, really wonderful romantic comedy musical starring Mae Whitman and Carlos Valdez.

It's called Up Here.

I may have mentioned it before.

I'll say it one more time.

Up here, UP Space, H-E-R-E.

It's on your Hulus, March 24th.

I do hope you check it out.

But Jesse,

when I think about the week that begins March the 20th, I don't just think about up here because something fun is coming up.

The Max Fun Drive, John.

We've got...

The Max Fun Drive, John.

You're right.

Special episodes and all kinds of cool activities and meetup day and all kinds of neat stuff planned for March 20th through two weeks after that.

It's going to be a great time.

And it's also essential to the operations of this organization.

We're going to have a cool announcement to share as well

about this organization.

That's all I can say.

But we're really proud of the Max Fund Drive.

We're really proud to work for you, the audience, the people who are listening, you right now.

And we hope that you will join us during that time and you'll get cool stuff and everything.

Yeah, you'll be hearing about all the all the cool premiums and bonus content and little stickers and fun items and good feelings that you have by becoming a member of maximum fund if you're not one already or upgrading your membership if you have the means to do it you'll hear all about it as we get closer to max fund drive but for now Just circle those dates that Jesse mentioned, March 20th through two weeks from then.

So I guess that's the March 34th.

Yeah.

Whatever it is.

Exactly.

It's going to be a lot of fun.

And it's truly this, you know, it's not only the best time of the year to support the network if you can, but it's also just one of the funnest times.

For me, it's a great time to reconnect with other Max Fun hosts, to see what else is out there on the network, to feel a kinship with all of you, the listeners, to play around with you online, and to feel good.

There's fun in the word for a reason.

Max Fun Drive beginning March 20th.

Make sure your calendar knows it.

Let's get back to the show.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

So

the law on this is pretty clear.

Possession, as many people wrote in on the

on the subreddit and suggesting a name for this case.

And thank you to all of the folks on the Maximum Fun subreddit who suggested names for the cases.

Quite a few did suggest possession is nine-tenths of the law,

which is,

I think, tied with poo print as being gross, but poo sticks is still the grossest.

This is clearly a case of abandoned property.

I mean, Joan, much like Christopher Robin in the horror movie Blood and Honey, you abandoned Winnie the Pooh to go to college.

and forge a new adult life.

Now, obviously, you kept a connection with the works of A.

A.

Milne in particular, as you mentioned, and a fondness for Winnie the Pooh, and a lifelong love of learning and literature and other L-words that led you, another L-word, to a career in pedagogy.

That's a P-word, like Pooh.

I have no doubt of your love for the character Winnie the Pooh.

For this print, I have doubt.

You have a memory that you told very, very movingly about receiving this print from Aunt Jane, not the nicest person.

But you left this thing behind for decades.

And not only that, when you saw it

in Barbara's home and got into some kind of drunken throwdown or whatever it was

and got your mom involved

and Barbara pulled one of the most Prince Barbara things Barbara's ever done, which was get an answer from your mom, like, yeah, it belongs to your your sister.

And then be like, no,

and then bullying your mom into muddying the waters.

And you, at that point, should have gone, double to you.

You can't do that to my mom.

Give me that thing.

You could have walked out of there with it.

Easily.

You easily could have walked out of there with it, but you didn't.

No.

Now, I'm not saying that what Barbara did was fair, but I am saying that you had the opportunity to reclaim it, to push your claim,

even if not that night,

maybe the next day in a sober state.

But you left it behind again for more years.

A child grew up with it in her bedroom.

This print, she grew up with it in her bedroom.

You lived with it in your bedroom for three years

until you could get out of there into your own new bedroom, leaving Barbara and it behind.

What did you decorate your new bedroom with?

Sexy Sexy dancers.

Sexy dancers.

And quite right.

And quite right.

And now you come to this court 50 years later and try to get it back.

And on top of that, you Snoopy shame Barbara?

Yeah,

I fixed Snoopy.

I fixed him.

He was

dying, and I saved him.

I know, Joan.

I understand that.

You're not Aunt Jane.

I'm not Aunt Jane.

I'm not Aunt Jane.

Thank you.

That's the only verdict I need.

You're not Aunt Jane, nor are you sister Jane.

You were a good sister who sewed on a new mouth for Snoopy.

But you did insinuate that somehow Barbara was, it was inappropriate that Barbara still had Snoopy in her bedroom.

No.

You were like, tell him, tell him.

No, I was there.

Don't, no, no, no, no, no.

Don't misdirect me with real estate details, Joan.

I was here.

I heard what you said.

I don't need the playback.

This is what you said.

You said, tell him, tell him.

I said, what about Snoopy?

And you're like, go ahead.

Tell him.

Tell him about how much you love Snoopy then and now.

Snoopy is more important to her, is my point.

Oh, I thought you were just saying you did, you know, that it was a childish affectation to continue to have a love for Snoopy.

Oh, no, no, no, no.

I think it's actually one of her greatest qualities.

I think it's why she's a children's librarian, is because she's never lost that.

Yeah, I will say, I will say this: now that I understand what you were trying to say, and thank you for helping me understand that.

You are cuckoo for Snoopy, Barbara.

It's true.

And Pooh.

Cuckoo for Pooh and Snoo?

Yeah.

Yeah.

The two?

The two.

Charlie Brown is better.

Charlie Brown is better than Snoopy.

We all agree.

We all agree.

Not everyone.

All right-thinking Americans.

All the same, you could have kidded it out your life with a bunch of Winnie the Pooh stuff.

Yes, my mother bought the Snoopy stuff.

So if she bought me Winnie the Pooh stuff, that's probably what I would have taken.

All right.

Here's the thing, though.

Joan, you have no legal egg to stand on here.

And yet this court is moved

by your telling of the story

of Aunt Jane giving you this print.

Now, this court remains unconvinced that Aunt Jane knew who she was giving the print to,

that she necessarily was giving it to you as a gesture of personal connection,

but you took it that way, and it was meaningful.

If there were a child who had grown connected to this print and still wanted it in their room, there's no way you'd be getting this thing back.

No way.

But

I'm going to let you have it.

Yeah, Barbara, that's right.

And the reason is this.

I'm going to cry.

Barbara, you've gotten to enjoy this thing for almost five decades.

You believed that it was yours, and fair enough, it was abandoned by your older sister, who abandoned it and you.

You let it be part of your home and your children's upbringing.

While it was inappropriate for Joan to leave behind childish things at the age of 10,

now it is totally appropriate at the age of redacted that Joan should want to recapture childish things.

I believe that the provenance of this print is that Aunt Jane gave it to Joan, but effectively it was shared between the two of you once it was in your shared bedroom.

Joan left it behind.

Whatever her motive for doing so was,

you got to enjoy it solo in that bedroom for however many years you lived there as an adult solo in your house.

And then you got to share it with your children for however many years.

And

if they're one of these children who had a deep, deep connection to it that rivaled either yours or Joan's connection to it, then I might feel differently.

But Isabella, I'm sorry to say, Barbara, led the way to my verdict, which is, I think, the humane way to approach this.

You've enjoyed it and your family have enjoyed it for decades.

If it is meaningful for Joan to have it, why not let her have it?

And I think you should.

And indeed, that is my order.

But my order has another order coming with it.

Joan, I don't want to hear about how many additions to the house or how many bedrooms you have and half-baths or anything else.

May I presume you have a bedroom?

Yes.

You will hang it in your bedroom, not where it used to be.

If you're not willing to hang it in your own bedroom, then leave it behind.

I swear,

it will be done.

All right.

And then

in another 50 years,

Barbara gets it back.

This is the sound of a gabble.

No bother.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Barbara, how are you feeling?

I'm not very happy.

This

possession of nine-tenths of the law obviously was thrown out of the window.

I actually would have been okay if it went in our childhood bedroom.

But now that it's going in her bedroom, which I am not allowed in her bedroom,

I am very sad.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

I'm sorry.

I was listening through the wall of my chambers.

You're not allowed in her bedroom?

Well,

maybe I am, but I don't go there.

Let the record reflect it.

Joan shook her head contemptuously, as if to say, nu-uh.

All right, then I take it back.

Joan, you have to display it in a place where Barbara will see it.

It will be done.

Your original idea is fine, then, I take it.

I will do that.

Does that make you feel any better, Barbara?

A tad.

A tad better.

Yes.

It's not my job to make people feel good.

What am I doing?

Trying to please people in this world?

Baby Barbara strikes again.

Joan, how do you feel?

Triumphant?

I feel at peace, actually.

I feel as though the world has been righted, that it took 50 years, and sometimes the world moves that slowly, but justice has been served.

The Dow of Pooh, so to speak.

Indeed.

Just wait.

Well, Joan, Barbara, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

In a moment, we'll have swift justice.

First, our thanks to Redditor, bad artist, good listener, for naming this week's episode.

Join the conversation on the Maximum Fun Reddit.

That's maximumfun.reddit.com.

Always a nice conversation over there at maximumfun.redddd.

Always a nice conversation.

Yeah.

Don't say something rude about the people who are on the show personally.

Just have a nice conversation.

Usually it's people having a nice conversation.

I understand.

You can get a little feisty in the chat.

I understand that.

But, you know, also remember the

people who are on this podcast are not public figures.

They're nice people who are private people who are letting us into their homes.

So if you've got an unkind unkind thing to say,

say it to your pet.

Say it to Dorothy Parker, who's sitting next to you at the table.

Yeah.

Maximumfun.reddit.com.

Everybody's, almost everybody's got a per-grade attitude there.

It's really a nice place.

That's also where we are asking for these title suggestions these days.

So go join the MaxFun Reddit.

It's always fun to see everybody's dumb jokes and goofy puns.

It's a delight.

Evidence and photos from our show are posted at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman.

If you're not on Instagram, you can just find them at maximumfund.org on the Judge John Hodgman page for this episode.

Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

Our producer is Valerie Moffat, now Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Melissa says, I understand there are different types of kitchen towels, Terry, Flatweave, Flower Sack, etc.

And that they have different abilities and purposes.

My boyfriend thinks bathroom towels are fine to use in the kitchen.

Please rule that all towels that are kept in the kitchen drawer should be of the kitchen or dish towel variety only.

All right, first of all, boyfriend, wrong.

That one's easy.

Wow, that's one of the easy.

That is bananas.

Look, I'm pro let your dog lick your plate and then put it in the dishwasher.

And even I know that it's bonkers to use bathroom towels in the kitchen.

To be clear, I'm pro let your dog lick your plate and put it in the dishwasher.

I'm just anti let your dog lick your plate and then hand wash it and hand dry it.

That's a different story.

The other day, my dog tried to steal my pizza and I stole it back and ate it.

That's fair.

I didn't care.

I was hungry and I had stuff to do.

There was only one piece of pizza.

I had to do what I had to do.

That's absolutely fair.

And also something I wish I could have seen happen in person.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

But what I'm really interested in is a book by Melissa on kitchen towel types.

Maybe not a book, maybe a pamphlet.

You know, just like, here are the kinds of kitchen, like, or a children's book.

The kitchen towels we use.

Terry, Flatwee, Flower Sack.

There have got to be more.

Melissa put et cetera there for a reason.

Have you ever, John, read the book Home Comforts, the Art and Science of Keeping House by Cheryl Mendelsohn?

No, I'm familiar with it, but I have not read it.

Oh, it is wonderful.

What a wonderful book.

It's essentially in book form, a list of kitchen towel types written so pleasantly and engagingly.

Yeah, I can't recommend it enough.

It's $14.

I'm looking at it on the internet here.

$14.

Go buy that wonderful book.

Melissa,

if you want to do a catalog,

a quick catalog of the different types of kitchen towels

and just a little couple of sentence description of each kind and their usage

and share it with me.

First of all, I'd love it.

Second of all, I would protect your IP.

Everyone's IP is safe with me.

I'm never going to steal your IP.

But I'd be very curious to see it.

And then, you know, if you have an illustrator friend, have them illustrate it.

You could probably sell a million of those books, Melissa.

That's my advice.

But meanwhile, boyfriend, wrong.

Hey, one of the other things that we're looking for are disputes.

We need disputes to do the show.

You may have noticed it's something of the backbone of the show.

True.

And you could tell from this episode, disputes about anything are welcome.

You may think this dispute's too small or too big or too medium.

That's not true.

Send them in.

Maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

Yeah, that's where you send them in.

Maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

You know what they say in writing rooms?

Is this something?

You can say that.

Is this something?

Yeah.

You know, I need this.

We need a poo print back from my sister.

I'm like, yeah,

you're going to win.

If you send that in, you may not realize it, but you're going to win a podcast Oscar for that.

I'm self-nominating this particular episode for the podcast Oscars, Jesse.

I think we're going to win.

But sometimes we need specific disputes.

And this time we do.

We need them about, you guessed it, cheese.

Why?

Well, a little something called the Max Fun Drive is coming up.

Around the corner.

Mark your calendars.

It's coming up this month in March, starting March the 20th, if I'm not not mistaken.

Am I mistaken, Jesse?

Not at all.

Not in the slightest.

I'm on the money when it comes to Max Fun Drive started on March the 20th.

And as you know,

every year when we do Max Fun Drive, if we reach a certain benchmark of new and upgrading members of MaximumFund.org, your friend and mine, and Jesse's co-podcast host and one of his oldest friends, Jordan Morris, he and I get together and record our annual podcast called Shooting the Breeze.

It's not about conversation, though.

It is a fun conversation.

I'm talking about shooting the B-R-I-E-S.

Jesse Thorne.

You came up with this idea some years ago.

Tell them about what Shootin' the Breeze is all about.

It just so happened that my two podcasting partners and close friends of decades, John Hodgman and Jordan Morris, John being the host of this program, Jordan being the host of Jordan Jesse Go,

had backgrounds in cheesemonging.

Yes.

It's

something that they shared in addition to podcasting that really blew my mind.

And I thought, well, this sounds like a podcast for whatever reason.

And we've made it a podcast.

You guys have made, how many Shooting the Breeze have you made at this point?

Well, I believe we've done it for two years.

So we've made two episodes.

Yeah.

And fingers crossed.

This will be our third year of Shooting the Breeze.

When we hit that new and upgrading membership benchmark, which you're going to hear about during the Max Fun Drive, I have a feeling we're going to make that benchmark because the Judge John Hodgman listeners, they're top podcast listeners.

So I have a feeling we're going to meet this benchmark.

So I want to be preloaded with some cheese-based disputes that Jordan and I can adjudicate and talk about.

Prompts for our discussion.

What's your favorite cheese?

What's a bad experience you had with cheese?

Itorky, the sheep's milk of the Basque region.

I used to call it the king of cheeses.

Where in the royal family of cheeses does it stand for you?

Jesse,

is there a cheese that is a migraine trigger for you?

You know, I'm supposed to avoid aged cheeses,

but the truth is that

that Trader Joe's thousand-day Gouda

is

too good to avoid.

Too good to avoid.

Thousand-day Gouda.

I got to get over to Trader Joe's.

They're doing some fun stuff over there look i'm not here to buzz market trader joe's but i will say that their cheese selection is really extraordinary and dramatically better than the regular supermarket what are your top five ranked trader joe's available cheese is

there's a plural that's how you say that's how you say cheese plural have you been a cheesemonger have you worked in cheese have you made cheese just let us know won't you maximumfund.org slash jjho send in your disputes about cheese or your opinions about cheese, especially if they're provocative opinions about cheese.

Jordan Morris and I will probably talk about it on Shootin' the Breeze if we meet that benchmark during the Max Fun Drive, which starts March the 20th.

So mark your calendars and get your cheeses ready.

And you can interpret cheese in different ways.

What is the best song by Richard Cheese?

Oh.

What is the best performance by Allison Bree or Brie Larson?

Yeah.

Who are other people named cheese?

Tell you what, you tell me.

Maximumfund.org slash JJ H O.

And that is, of course, as Jesse mentioned, the place where you should submit all of your disputes, whether or not they have to do with cheese.

If you've got beef with your brother, your uncle, your sister,

your best friend, your former best friend, your spouse even, that's still a thing.

Write in.

Maximumfund.org slash JJ H.O.

We need your disputes in order to live.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFund.org.

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Artist-owned.

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