The Deceitful Dish

Welcome.

That's the way I talk now.

Keep that in.

Welcome to the Judge.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm your host,

Lady Sleuth Jessica Fletcher from Cabots Cove in Maine.

Only part of that is true.

I'm your Judge John Hodgman, and I'm not in Cabots Cove, but I do come to you from the very special chambers, my summer chambers that I thought I might never see again.

the The studios, the solar-powered studios, if you will, of W-E-R-U-F-M, Community Radio, 89.9 FM in Orland, Maine, 99.9 in Bangor, Maine.

Joel Mann, how do you say Bangor?

Bangor.

Bangor.

Not Bangor, right?

No.

Bangor.

Do you know anyone who says Bangor, Maine?

Yeah, a lot of people do.

Well, they're wrong.

Wouldn't you agree?

Well, you're not originally from Maine.

Do you think native Mainers say banger or bangor?

Ban Gore.

Bangor.

And it's not even Bang Gore, it's Ban Gore.

B-A-A.

Bangor.

Bangor.

That's how the natives say it.

Ban Gore.

We can't have gory movies anymore.

Ban Gore.

Right.

Like

the former vice president is not allowed in these studios.

Ban Al Gore.

Boy, he's all right.

He was wrong, wasn't he?

No, he's allowed.

He's allowed because these studios are solar-powered with high-energy efficient heat pumps installed.

I've watched this studio go from a dilapidated,

dirty fuel shack

to a high-efficiency solar-powered shack right here on the Acadia Highway.

And it's nice to see you across the glass, Joel Mann, here in Maine.

Good to see your blurry vision.

I didn't think I would be able to come back here at all, but I'm not on the schedule this week, week, so they gave me special leave.

I'm acting in a Hulu show called Up Here.

Just that's a little pre-plug for the show, Joel.

When's that going to be released?

Sometime in the future.

Because I'm about to cancel Hulu, so I want to.

Don't cancel.

Everybody, don't cancel Hulu.

Now's not the time.

Hulu's got some great shows on it.

It's got Up Here forthcoming.

It's got Dicktown forthgoing.

Both seasons.

And lots of other great, great, terrific programming.

You heard a laugh there.

I'm not merely joined by Joel the Main Man Man today, but also another New England reunion that I didn't think would happen again this summer.

Of course, you're listening to this probably in the very early stages of fall, but it's Monty Belmonte down at WRSI-FM, the river in Northampton, Massachusetts.

Hello, Monty.

Hello.

And you pronounced all of those place names absolutely correctly.

I'm so glad.

It's Northampton.

Nor Thampton.

Yes, there's only one H.

Northampton.

But it has double duty, as opposed to Amherst, which has one H, but does nothing.

Amherst.

And

we had a little chit-chat together remotely, all of us together on our New England episode recently.

But since I am back in New England for a time, I'm like, yeah, there's my family.

This is what I came back for.

Let me see how quickly I can get to W-E-R-U

to hang out with Joel and Monty again.

Joel, you said that

you had a Martha Stewart sighting here in Maine?

Yes,

playing down at Havana's in Bar Harbor last night, and she came in and sat about five feet away from us, gave us a $20 tip, and said thank you.

You're talking about you and your jazz trio, the night and day trio,

were laying down some jazz tunes at the Havana restaurant

in Bar Harbor, Maine.

Yep.

And she gave you a $20 tip.

And said thank you.

Just a jazz tip.

Yeah.

She improvised that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's incredible.

You know what also is incredible?

What?

The Google Reviews section for the Havana restaurant in Bar Harbor, Maine.

Yeah, well, one of our DJs made the Obamas their cocktails when they visited a couple years ago.

That's true.

Barack Obama Monty and the former president Barack Obama and his wife and whole human being in her own right, Michelle Obama, attended attended dinner at this restaurant called Havana in Bar Harbor, Maine.

And

I haven't eaten there.

It's supposed to be good.

Very good.

I'm not plugging it one way or the other, but I'm definitely plugging the Google Reviews section for that particular because

there are only a few restaurants in the world,

well, probably more than there should be, which should be zero, but there are only a few that I've ever found where the owner fights back.

Do you know the owner of that restaurant?

Yes, I do.

Yeah.

He's mixing it up in there.

If you drop a one-star or a two-star or even a three-star rating, he will be up in your business on Google Reviews.

Before the end of the program, Jennifer Marmor is also here with us there in lovely Los Angeles, California, nowhere in New England at all.

Jennifer, hello?

Hello.

We're going to get to the justice in a minute, but I need you to set a reminder.

Before the end of this episode, make sure, and this is a tease, this is what keeps people engaged, Make sure I look up the name of the restaurant in Venice where the owner fights back.

Because that's an incredible ride.

Because not only,

not only is this person, and I applaud owners who fight back.

It's very interesting for me to read.

I'm not sure it's going to help them in the long term, but people are, you know, if you start a restaurant, you're not doing it for money.

You have a passion, and people question your passion, and you want to get in the comments.

Don't ever get in the comments no matter what you do, but if you do, make sure I know about it because it's fun to read.

The best part about this restaurant in Venice, Italy, is that all of it is Google Translated or

he's writing in English himself, but it goes through a whole different distortion.

It's like listening to

Yelp reviews through a distortion pedal.

It's incredible.

Make a note of that.

But we do have some justice to dispense on the docket.

And Monty,

you

shall be my designated summertime, fun time, good time, all-around.

Need to see you again soon.

Bailiff, why don't you read the first case?

Here's a case from Dana in Jupiter, Florida.

I have a bone to pick with my bosses, a married couple who are the chef owners of the restaurant where I work as a server.

All of the items on the menu center around meat or fish, with one exception, a vegetable and tofu stir-fry.

Given its uniqueness, one might logically assume that this dish is vegetarian or even vegan.

However, I recently glanced at the recipe and discovered that it contains oyster sauce.

Oyster sauce, they say with three exclamation points.

My bosses say all Asian stir-fries contain fish or oyster sauce.

They also said, quote, it barely has any oysters in it.

I argue that vegetarians are not the only people that would object to eating oyster sauce.

Those with shellfish allergies and religious objections come to mind.

Please order my bosses to remove oyster sauce from this dish or create a different dish that is not deceitful.

Deceitful dish.

Do you think that's the name?

I don't know the name of the restaurant in Jupiter, Florida.

Do you think it's called the Deceitful Dish?

That would be terrific.

I'd eat there.

I would totally go to the Deceitful Dish.

Joel, would you go to the Deceitful Dish?

In a minute.

Dana, you're not wrong.

If I were a vegetarian and I was eating oyster sauce without knowing it, I'd be upset.

If I had a shellfish allergy, I'd be upset.

If I had a diet, religious or theological or otherwise, where

I choose not to eat oysters, I'd be upset.

I'll tell you one more reason not to eat oysters.

One that's very close to my heart, but more closer to my big toe.

You know what it is, Monty?

Gout.

Gout is correct.

Gout.

Have I talked about the gout already?

I can't remember if that was in real life or on the show.

That's how good a show is.

I don't think it was on the show.

Don't think it was on.

Joel, did I talk about gout on the show?

I think so.

You think so, Joel?

I remember you talking about gout, but I I can't remember past that.

Look, you know what?

It's the disease of kings.

It's associated with eating very rich foods and

living very well an aristocratic life because aristocrats used to get gout all the time.

And I got it, and I got it hard right there in my right big toe about three weeks ago.

It was miserable.

And because it is the disease of kings, I hereby royal decree say I'm going to talk about it again.

Here's a fun fact about gout.

You know what it causes it, Joel?

I thought it was too much beer.

Too much beer is a problem?

What else, Monty?

What else causes gout?

Rich foods.

Rich foods, they say.

Let me tell you what causes gout.

High uric acid levels.

I told you this was a fun fact.

Fun, right?

Totally.

Here's some more fun.

What happens is, if you have too much uric acid in your blood and your liver can't process it and your kidneys can't can't process it, or whatever, your great filter organs, and it just hangs around in your blood.

All that uric acid gets together and says, Hey, we have an idea.

Let's form ourselves into hard, sharp crystals.

And then to lodge ourselves into the big joint of the big toe.

Almost always the big joint of the big toe for some reason.

They pick it.

And then all of a sudden, you've got a war going on between these sharp uric acid crystals and your immune system, and you can't walk and you feel bad.

And what causes high uric acid levels?

Well, they say purines,

some kind of substance in certain foods, certain foods like red meat, certain drinks like beer and alcohol, certain foods like oysters.

Shellfish, Joel, can't eat the scallops.

No tofu, stir-fry.

Right?

Not if it has oyster sauce in it.

I mean, I don't know.

It's a very little.

Truly, there's very, very little oyster in oyster sauce.

But it just, you know, I almost got a gout flare up just reading this letter.

You know what, Monty, they say alcohol, beer is the worst thing you can drink if you have gout.

But alcohol overall is high in purines.

Here's the thing: if you go to an American website about gout, they will tell you

you can never drink again.

If you go to a British website about gout, they say you might want to consider

one or two alcohol-free days a week.

I'm going to that.co.uk websites.

That's where I'm going.

Absolutely.

But the other thing about it is that it's genetic.

And I think probably a lot of aristocratic families in Europe got it because they're usually male parents and grandparents have it because it's

more cis guys than cis women get gout.

This comes out in September.

We're recording it at the end of August.

It's International Gout Week, I've decreed by royal decree.

So I'm just telling you, Dana, you got a point.

There are a lot of people who don't want to eat oysters without knowing about it or eat oyster sauce without knowing about it.

That said, the boss has got a point too.

They're fighting back in the comments.

Many, many, many Asian stir-fries have oyster sauce.

What do you think should happen in this case, Monty?

Is this deceitful, first of all?

I don't think it's intent deceitful, which would mean that they are meaning to be...

deceitful, I think.

I think what this is, is they could clarify that it has oyster sauce in it, perhaps with a little asterisk or whatever, um and not shouldn't say that it is vegetarian or vegan on the menu if it does then it is deceitful if it just says you know asian stir-fry and doesn't go into the very specifics of every single ingredient i think that's actually fine but they might out of courtesy because people do have shellfish allergies want to let people know but usually what most restaurants do is say if you have any allergies to specific foods please tell your server so i don't know joel you know i can't eat halibut either cold water fish that's terrible terrible.

All the foods that are good for, you know what I'm supposed to eat?

Peanut butter sandwiches on Wonder Bread.

Who's your doctor?

Yeah, for gout.

They even call, like, you go to websites, they say eat a lot of carbohydrates, but not too much whole grains.

Like,

honestly, it's like a 1950s diet.

Like, I'm supposed to eat white bread when nuts are okay, low purine.

I'll get it figured out.

I've been three weeks gout-free.

I'm feeling pretty good.

You never know when it might flare up.

The point is, I think that you're right, Monty.

And I think that Dana ultimately is on the writer's side of right

in regards to if all the items in your menu contain les viande, the meats, or les poissons,

the fish, and then you've got one veggie and tofu stir-fry,

I would think a vegetarian could easily be fooled into thinking that this is the alternative.

Tofu is a pretty heavy signifier of,

yeah,

this is the one for you, vegetarian, or vegan.

Solution.

There are many oyster-free oyster sauces, mock oyster sauce.

They make it with mushrooms.

It adds an umami flavor, the oyster sauce.

So they simulate it with mushrooms.

Another thing I can't eat with gout.

No mushrooms.

Come on.

But definitely try some no oyster oyster sauce or you put it on your menu.

This stuff has oyster sauce in it.

And I would suggest, you know, look, this is just a recommendation, bosses, of

the deceitful dish in Jupiter, Florida.

Put a real vegan thing on your menu.

I mean, in addition to this stir-fry, which I bet is delish,

just put a real vegan thing on there so no one can, because you're going to get letters.

You're going to get comments, and you can't fight them off in the comments.

You can't fight them all off in the comments.

You shouldn't be in there at all.

Put a real vegan dish on

Hodgman, may I have a brief restaurant-related sidebar and Hulu plug at the same time?

Only if we skip the next case.

In which case, yes.

All right.

Forget it.

No, I want to hear it.

I want to hear it.

Okay.

I was watching the brand new Hulu show, The Bear, and my son Enzo.

It's right, The Bears on Hulu.

Is like my son Enzo is the one I say, who is this person and what was she in before?

Look her up on IMDb.

and I was like no it's not the voice from big mouth it's none of those things no you're talking about Iowa Debrie who I hung out with because of you at solid sound for like hours and I was like oh my god she's an excellent human being in real life and she's the breakout star of that wonderful show sidebar concluded incredibly funny stand-up comedian uh hats off hats off and i am wearing a hat but i'm not taking it off to paul f tompkins because i said i'm out of the loop i've been i've been i've been hiding I've been out in the world seeing comedy.

Is there anyone you recommend for Solid Sound?

And he recommended Iowa Debrie.

And she came and performed at Solid Sound with her dad, who's just the charmingest guy.

They're both amazing.

And she was super charming, super funny, and an incredible actor.

And

in a show that I enjoyed quite a bit on Hulu.

Hulu is where you see Dick Town up here.

It's where you get all your Hulus.

Don't cancel it, Joel.

Don't cancel it.

Reservation Dogs, the Wu-Tang Show?

Oh, Reservation Dogs is also also incredible.

Yeah.

We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partners.

When we come back, we'll have actual cases to clear on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

We are back.

Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast coming to you live on digital audio tape from the studios of WERU Community Radio in Orland, Maine, connected via technology to the studios of WRSI-FM 93.9 on your frequency modulation dial in Northampton, Massachusetts, with Joel the Main Man Man running the board up here in Maine, and summertime, fun-time guest bailiff Monty Belmonte connected to us from the Pioneer Valley of Massachusetts.

Monty, justice delayed is

still justice.

Let's read that one about the Lion King now.

Here's something from Faith.

Location unknown.

It is commonly understood that Disney's The Lion King is a loose retelling of Hamlet.

My friend Alex says no.

He contends that the story of usurping brother and avenging prince is common enough that you may as well say all stories with those devices are based on Hamlet.

I argue that most of them probably are.

Moreover, the creators of The Lion King admit to noticing similarities to Hamlet during creation of the movie and decided to lean into them.

Please rule that Alex must admit that The Lion King is a retelling of Hamlet.

Did you call it Hamlet there for a minute?

If I did, I didn't mean to.

I love it, Hamlet.

It's like when my son calls the tablet a tabawit.

A tabawit.

Oh.

That's so cute.

You have a very cute son.

Tell me about it.

I don't need to because you're living with him all the time, and my children are grown, and I've never felt freer.

But

I do miss their little selves quite a bit, too.

Okay, let's talk about the Lion King.

I've never seen it.

What?

I've never seen The Lion King.

Have you seen The Lion King, Joel?

Never have.

Not the animated or the live-action-ish version?

Nor him, what?

Monty Harrison.

When you kept saying Les Poisson, I almost burst into little mermaid lyrics.

So this is kind of my wheelhouse of Disney movies.

Yeah, I mean, you can sing me.

Oh, boy.

Shout out to Richard.

One of the incredible costumers up here who's constantly, every time he he brings me my suit jacket, he's singing a different little mermaid song, and he's got a gray voice.

I don't.

But yes, I've seen the Lion King, but I have not seen the live-action Lion King, but I did watch Black is King, which is essentially Beyonce's soundtrack to the live-action Lion King and is amazing.

Cool.

And have you ever seen Hamlet?

I have seen Hamlet.

There are some famous similarities between these

stories

in that Hamlet is about a young prince whose father is,

this is a giveaway, murdered.

Spoilers.

This is

dad's ghost comes and says,

I was murdered.

Do you know that

Shakespeare invented that phrase?

He made up so many words and phrases.

Yeah, he made up ghost talk.

I was murdered.

Avenge me.

And then Hamlet puts it together that

his uncle Claudius

is responsible for the murder and did it, poisoned him, and

put some poison in his ear or something.

And then Hamlet pretends to be,

you know, out of his mind for a while and stuff happens.

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern were there too.

That's the plot of Hamlet.

So if you're writing a book report this week, kids, there you go.

Make sure to quote me.

Cite me.

And in The Lion King, how much of that happens in The Lion King?

Monty, you love this movie so much.

Tell me.

The prince's father is murdered by the uncle, and there are two

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern-esque comedic characters

that Simba hangs out with.

Timona.

You're talking about Hakuna and Matada?

Yes.

I know that one.

You knew that.

I know that one.

Apart from that,

that's about it.

There's no nothing rotten in the state of Denmark.

There's no holding up a skull in Alaska Yorick.

Is there a bird in that one?

I'm sure.

I can't remember the bird's name.

Yeah, Iago?

No.

No, no, that's Aladdin.

That's an Alaska.

That's Aladdin.

But there is a bird.

There is a bird.

I know my friend Adam Stein, who's an actor and a television writer.

Zazu plays Zazu on Broadway for a while.

Every now and then I think about the fact that I know someone who played a bird on Broadway

just for like a summer job.

Like just they, the thing's been going on for so long, they just run through everybody.

Not that Adam is an incredibly talented Zazu.

I'm sure he's a great actor.

But I mean, it's just like, does everyone do a stint?

It's just Broadway.

We'll talk more about that later.

My friend's brother was the original Lumiere on Broadway.

So there you go.

Oh, we?

Peter Flynn.

Oh, how about that?

He was the new Orbach.

Wasn't Jerry Orbach Lumiere?

Yep.

Yeah.

All right.

Anyway, theater talk.

We'll save that for later.

The point is, oh, this is my question, Monty, as the expert on The Lion King.

Not an expert.

Does Simba, the main character, the Hamulet character, pretend to be insane for any period of time the way that Hamlet does?

I think that you hearing me say Hamlet might have been like a delay on Zoom, by the way.

I don't call it Hamlet.

That's what it's called.

That's what it's called now.

Hamlet.

And no, he doesn't get insane, but he does slack off for an awfully long time in the Hakuna Matata phase, eating bugs and things instead of killing with his lion-y teeth the lion-y-type things that lions usually eat.

He kind of goes vegetarian, but they don't tell him about the oyster sauce.

This is what I found out using the internet.

First of all,

I went to a website belonging to the University of Adelaide in Australia.

Nine reasons why the Lion King is basically Hamlet, and one reason it probably isn't.

Simba is a prince.

His uncle kills his dad.

Timon and Pumba are Rosencrantz and Gildenstern.

Rafiki is Horatio.

These are the similarities.

It goes on.

But the one,

the one thing, the one way that they, I really love the, I wish I could go to the University of Adelaide.

It's got to be a fun place to go.

Because it's really made me laugh.

The one, after they go through this whole thing, they say the one reason, the one thing that

definitely does not have in common with Hamlet.

One reason, the Lion King is full of lions.

It's true.

I've never seen a production of Hamlet staged only by lions.

And I also went to OprahDaily.com because that was the first website that I was able to confirm that faith is correct.

The co-directors of The Lion King, Roger Allers and Rob Minkoff,

gave an interview to blueray.com.

By the way, that's blue-ray.com if you want to find

This was an interview in 2011.

Like,

maybe you're not busy or anything, but Roger Allers and Rob Binkoff, you don't have to give interviews to blue-ray.com.

But they did.

And they pointed out that, like, they originally, this is the first Disney animated film that was not based on a prior fairy tale or IP.

It was threatening to become an original story, but they caught themselves because someone noticed that this was, someone in the room noticed this was very similar storyline to Hamlet.

And they're like, yeah, you know what?

We like that.

Let's make it as Hamlety as possible.

And in one original ending of this film, apparently, Monty,

this didn't make it into the film.

Simba dies.

Whoa.

They had one version of the film where Simba dies, and then Scar dies afterward.

And that's true tragedy.

That's true Hamlet-y.

Everyone dies.

But in fact, Scar says to a dying Simba,

good night, sweet prince, or something like that, a real Hamlet quote.

But they backed off of that for obvious reasons.

Wow.

So I got to say, Faith, that your friend Alex is full of lion poop because, yeah,

this is definitely based on Hamlet.

Now,

here's a question.

Alex contends that there are so many stories based on

a pretend insane avenging nephew killing his father's brother or seeking revenge against his father's brother.

That's so common that we can't say that anything is based on Hamlet.

I don't know.

How many stories like Hamlet can you think of, Monty?

The Lion King?

Yeah.

If listeners out there, if this is a common trope in movies and television where a person's parent is killed by their sibling

and then they seek revenge, let me know.

But I don't think Alex got a leg to stand on.

Here's something interesting, though.

It is true that Hamlet is based on Hamlet.

Did you know that?

It was cribbed.

It was cribbed.

Shakespeare cribbed Hamlet from an ancient Scandinavian legend that was first written down, and they believe that he read it

in a big book of Scandinavian myth and legend that was written by the incredibly named Saxo Grammaticus in the year 1200.

And apparently there's a very common legend of Amleth, A-M-L-E-T-H, or as you would say, Monty, Ameleth.

Right.

Who was who

basically

was a young prince whose father was killed by his brother and he sought revenge and he pretended to be insane in order to make him seem less threatening to his uncle so he himself would not be killed.

And Ameleth himself is an avatar of the even older hero's folk trickster trope, which goes back well before Saxo Grammaticus ever put a quill to papyrus or however they were doing it in 1200.

I don't know.

In any case, there's nothing new under the sun, Alex.

One more thing about faith.

I just want to bring this up because you gotta have, Joel, you gotta have it.

You gotta have faith.

Gotta have it.

Faith, it turns out, has been a faithful correspondent to this podcast multiple times before because I was looking up to find out where faith was from because I didn't know.

And it turns out I don't know Faith's pronouns either, so I'm going to say they.

They have not revealed where they're from, so Faith let me know.

But they have written several times, including one of the best letters this podcast ever got, and we talked about it way back in the beginning of 2021 when I used to basically live here, Joel.

Remember how I used to live here?

Yeah, downstairs.

Yeah, exactly.

Faith was the one, Monty,

who wrote in saying, and I'm just going to read this back into the record because it's such a great letter.

I'm an engineer for a medical device design consulting company.

And as such, a lot of the details of my work are confidential due to client NDAs.

And when I talk evasively about what I'm working on, I end up having to say some weird statements, such as:

one, customs wouldn't let me through with our dot dot dot prototype.

Two, our device isn't making the building shake anymore, so that's nice.

And three,

I got stuck in the blood room again.

This leads their friends Lo and Marion to suggest that Faith is a spy, but Faith isn't a spy.

If you're still working there, Faith, I hope you don't get stuck in that blood room again.

That was one of the great, that was one of the great letters of all time.

And yeah, Faith, I got it.

People can be out ice fishing and get stuck on a loose ice flow.

It does happen, apparently, Joel.

Yeah, apparently, in the Great Lakes, of course.

Of course, it's the Great Lakes.

You go out on Lake Superior, that ice flow will separate, but it's got to be too late in the season to be ice fishing

if you can see water around.

Anyway, it happens.

Faith was one of the many people who wrote me about that.

Thanks, Faith, for writing in.

I hope you got out of the blood room.

Here's something from Stephanie from Parts Unknown.

In my husband's family, they blow out birthday candles and then start singing happy birthday.

Whoa.

They swear it's a Philadelphia Jewish thing.

Sadly, I noticed this at my son's first birthday party and was shocked.

I didn't see the signs beforehand.

Please order them to follow the rest of humanity and sing first.

Oh,

so let me get this straight.

In the tradition of Stephanie's husband's family, who I guess come from a Jewish community in Philadelphia, the tradition is bring out the cake with candles,

blow out the candles, then sing happy birthday.

Have you ever heard of this before, Monty?

Never.

Joel, have you ever heard of this before?

When do you sing happy birthday?

Beforehand, always.

Like when you're bringing the cake out with the candles?

Right.

And what does it sound like when you sing it?

Well, I like it to be up tempo.

You know, give it.

It's in the public domain now, so you can go ahead.

Oh, yeah, good.

Sing it to my son, Hodge Manilo.

He just had a birthday.

It's his birthday party tomorrow.

Hodge Manilo.

Happy birthday.

Happy birthday.

Happy birthday to you.

What?

What?

It's happy birthday to you.

If you're going to even say it, you have to say it right.

What do you work at Chili's?

Corporate won't let you sing the real happy birthday song by Mildred and whatever her name is,

the sister who wrote it?

Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday to you.

Then make sure you drag it out so it's a dirge.

Happy birthday, get slower and slower to your Hodge Manilo.

Happy birthday to you, Jennifer Marmer.

Do you celebrate birthdays in your home?

Yes.

How are you raising your child?

Are you singing when the candles are lit or are you singing after the candles are blown?

We sing when the candles are lit.

Not post-blow?

No.

Pre-blow singing, correct?

Correct.

Okay.

Well, look, this is just a four-point data set.

If you, dear listener, are from a family where everyone sings after the candles are blown out, let us know.

You can use the submission form, which is maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

And if it correlates at all with...

Stephanie's husband's claim that this is a tradition in the Jewish community in Philadelphia.

I'd like to get that information as well.

But for now, I'm just going to say it seems out of the ordinary.

I'm going to withhold judgment.

Except I do want to point out, I really like this sentence that Stephanie wrote.

Sadly, I noticed this at my son's first birthday party.

Like,

what were you doing?

I just love

the verb noticed.

I just had this image of Stephanie sort of like

on the couch with a cocktail, staring out the window

into the middle distance of the yard wondering when can I get out of this thing on her son's first birthday and then gradually it begins to dawn on Stephanie that they're singing the song at a different time and kind of turns quietly and notices sadly see I imagine Stephanie carrying the cake out to her son's first birthday party totally lit but to a silent room not knowing what to do.

And then all of a sudden the one-year-old blows the candles out and then everybody bursts into song.

And Stephanie, I guess then, notices.

It's terrifying.

The picture I was painting was sort of like

a midlife ennui novel.

Yeah.

What you're talking about is a horror movie.

Yes.

What if you had married this person and this is the first birthday for a child that you've celebrated and you walk into the room and

none of his relatives are singing?

And you're just there going, ha,

ha,

happy.

Where's what's going on?

Happy.

Oh, and then you blow it out.

That's midsummer level weird.

Stephanie's husband, I'm sorry I called your family midsummer level weird, but

maybe it's not true.

Folks, write in and let me know what's going on.

I also used to know the Olive Garden birthday song before they could do the regular birthday song in like restaurants like the Olive Garden.

Do you know it?

Will you sing it?

From the pasta we make to lasagna we bake.

Na na na na we wishing you a happy birthday.

That's all I remember.

That's pretty good.

Thanks for putting a little life into it, unlike some people, Joel Mann.

Happy birthday.

There we go.

I feel like I'm being carried into my tomb when you sing happy birthday.

I wanted to say there's a really funny comedian on Instagram that you may know, but I hadn't until fairly recently, Lisa Gilroy,

a Canadian actor and comedian.

Boy, is Lisa Gilroy funny.

And Lisa does an imitation of a Chili's birthday song, similar vein, that is just, oh, it's a wild ride.

You got to go check it out.

Lisa Gilroy.

Yes.

At the Lisa Gilroy.

You can go check that out while we're on the break, but please be listening to our messages while you're checking it out.

When we come back, a dispute that only one can decide.

And that one

is not me.

What?

It's murder.

It's not murder.

It's just something else.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Law.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Hey, Monty Belmonte, summertime, guest time bailiff Monty Belmonte.

This is the portion of the show where we talk about what we have coming up, what's going on in the world, where people can connect with you.

I know that you do a podcast version of your morning radio show at WRSI The River.

Tell me about that.

It's a compilation of all the talking that I do without the songs, without those pesky, pesky bits of music that our music radio station plays.

It's called A Week of Mornings, and it's conversations with musicians and artists and wine people and astronomers and dictionary editors and lots of calls with listeners and things like that, U.S.

Congress people, et cetera, et cetera.

And you can find it where podcasts are available at A Week of Mornings.

And we're going to mention your socials at the end of this program.

Is there anything else you'd like to let people know about at this time?

The Shea Theater?

Anything coming up at the Shea?

Well, hopefully, we'll do another holiday extravaganza at the Shea at some point now that the pandemic is at a place where people are sometimes going to things.

The pandemic is ongoing.

If I've ever said otherwise, I do apologize.

The pandemic is ongoing.

I hope that we're in a place by the end of December-ish

where it would be safe and prudent for me to come visit you at the Shea.

But there's stuff going on at the Shea all the time.

What do you got?

Like musics and shows and stuff?

There's theater, there's music, there's comedy.

It's a town-owned theater that is run by a nonprofit that I'm a part of.

And it is a joy to volunteer to be a part of it and to bring the arts to my little village.

And of course, we're here with you, Joel, at weru.org is how you find it on the internet.

Do you have a pledge drive coming up or anything?

I just had a very successful pledge drive.

Thank you, everybody.

Yes.

Okay, so

let me give them the message.

The pledge drive is over.

If you were thinking about donating, don't.

It's a waste of your time.

Don't do it now.

Don't do it now.

No, you can always listen to WERU and pledge if you wish, weru.org.

And you'll still be playing jazz into the fall.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

Pentagoet every Tuesday and Harbor View every Sunday.

And I'm on my back porch after 4 o'clock after that.

The Pentagoet Inn in Castine, Maine.

And the Harbor View is in Penopscott?

Searsport.

Searsport.

Oh, oh, right.

Okay, great.

That's the new spot.

Yeah.

And you should do a lot.

You should do a lot.

I mean, I don't know if you'd get in trouble with culture if you started live casting your jazz songs.

But I say that some Judge John Hodgman listener in Maine should go before the fall is out and live stream a night and day trio set, or at least some highlights.

I'm pretty sure the new owners of the Pentagoad have been filming us, so that might be, look up their website.

They might be sitting there.

No, I hear the Pendagoadin has cameras everywhere.

I hear they have cameras everywhere, if you know what I mean.

No, it's not a surveillance state, and it's a really nice place.

In any case, let me just say this.

This is the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast.

As you know, Dick Town is on Hulu.

I'd really enjoy if you wanted to check that out.

David Reese and I recently recorded a podcast with the great Ashley Ray, who is a person that yelled at me on Twitter about a thing that I was wrong about.

I apologized.

And we

talked it through and ended up neutral about it because I didn't know her at the time.

Now we're friends.

And she independently,

even though she was mad at me, she checked out Dick Town on her own because she was like, what is Hodgman even doing these days?

Why should he even speak?

And

she

then said she saw Dick Town and she really enjoyed it.

It's very rare that you make friends on Twitter these days as opposed to enemies.

And I'm really glad to know Ashley and she's an incredibly funny comedian and writer about television.

And she has a podcast called TV, I Say, with Ashley Rae

on another podcast network.

But Google it.

There are a lot of great conversations about television.

You can discover a lot of shows that I'd never heard of, like Frogger.

Do you know what Frog, Frog, excuse me, not Frogger, Frogging?

Do you know what Frogging is?

What would you guess if I were to tell you that there's a TV, a reality TV show, unscripted unscripted show, in the kind of like America's Most Haunted Places style of dramatic reenactment called Frogging, and it's spelled P-H-R-O-G-G-I-N-G.

Monty, what's your guess?

Until you spelled it, I thought it might be like a live-action version of the video game Frogger.

It is not that.

All guesses are wrong.

I'm not even, Joel, any guesses?

The life of frogs?

No, it has nothing to do with frogs, and I don't know why it's called frogging.

Jennifer Marma, you know this show?

No.

It's about people who discover that someone else is living inside their house.

Yeah.

The look on your face, Jennifer Marma, of sheer terror matches my soul when I heard about this show.

And they do two

cases.

This is called frogging when someone lives in your crawl space or your attic without you knowing it.

They do two cases of frogging per episode.

They have a full season.

I hate it.

I didn't know there was this much frogging going on out there.

That's why it's really good to have people like Ashley Rae out there to help clear up the blind spots that you might have in this world.

And you might not have known about frogging, and now you do.

So check it out.

TV I Say with Ashley Rae on another podcast network that might rhyme with Mir Mulf.

And David Reese and I are talking about Dick Town, and we all have a really good time together.

We talk about all, we talk about frogging, we talk about all the shows we've been watching, and it's a lot of fun.

Also, make sure to check out David's podcast, Election Profit Makers.

All right, let's get back to the docket.

Welcome back to the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast.

Jennifer Marmer, what was the thing that I'm supposed to look up before the show ends and tell people?

You're supposed to look up the Vettis restaurant where the owner fights back.

Okay, I've got it.

I've got the restaurant and I'll read it at the end of the show.

Meanwhile, Monty.

Recently I asked for cases that require expertise from specific friends of the court who are not me.

So, for example, someone wrote in asking me if I would ask Bobby Lopez and Kristen Anderson Lopez, who have wrote the songs for Frozen, another Disney production, Frozen,

and they've written a lot of songs for Disney.

And this person wanted to know what is their opinion

of the song It's a Small World

from the attraction at Disneyland and Disney World and all the Disneys all over.

It's a Small World.

We'll see what happens.

I'm going to meet them on the set of up here soon, coming to your streamer on Hulu soon.

I'm going to meet them on the set and I'll ask them.

And if you have other disputes for other friends of the court

that are very specific like that,

you could ask, you can send in a dispute for Joel, a scallop dispute for Joel to settle or a.

or a or a wine dispute for Monty to settle because you have

your wine expertise that you've developed on your on your morning radio show.

I don't have a drinking problem.

Is the segment called Wine in the Mornings with Monty?

No, it's called The Wine Snobs.

The Wine Snobs.

Okay, send that one in.

But meanwhile, here's one from listener Emily.

Emily writes in just before the one-minute mark in the song Stay Alive from Hamilton, the musical.

Yay, Hamlet.

One of your favorites.

Joel, have you seen Hamilton?

Hamilton?

Hamilton.

Yeah, Hamilton.

It's all based on the same thing.

I can't believe this is the first time I've ever seen Joel smile.

He's laughing so hard at his own joke.

See, it just, you deserve it, Joel.

You had put that one.

I mean,

how long ago did I say Hamilton?

Milliseconds ago, and you already had that one ready to go.

That's incredible.

Good job, Joel.

Thank you.

All right.

And Stay Alive from Hamilton.

One of the actors sings/slash says chick-a-plow.

Chick-a-plow.

I've long argued that this is not a lyric since it's not a real word and is more accurately categorized as something like a a cappella-style sound effect.

My friends say I'm wrong.

Am I?

I don't know, Emma Lily Lee.

What do you think, Monty?

Chick-a-plow, is that a lyric in the song

or something else?

I think if you were to look up the lyrics to this song from Hamilton, Outrun, Out Last, Hit Em Quick, Get Out Fast.

It's going to say chick a plow next if you look up the actual text of the lyrics.

And you don't have to because you've got this thing all memorized down Pat.

Because of you.

You were visiting Western Mass and you said, I'm coming in January.

If your family does not know Hamilton, by the time we get there, we will literally have nothing to talk about.

So we listened to it and then it dominated.

two entire years of my life.

Two years ago.

To the point where I couldn't sleep at night and I would have, because a lyric would be running through my head.

Yeah.

And I had to memorize the whole thing so that I could sleep.

So my brain would just continue to plow through it.

It has now happened again with Lynn Manuel Miranda's new Disney movie.

Encanto?

Encanto.

Yeah.

I have to do, I have to know all of the lyrics to Encanto, or I can't sleep.

And I do.

Well,

I think I consider you to be a pretty reliable source on this, Monty.

So I normally would take your judgment as final, but we do have another source.

Jennifer Marmor, please play the tape.

Hi, Judge Hodgman, Lynn Miranda here.

Thank you, Emily, for your question.

I do regret to inform you that chick-a-plow is indeed a lyric in Hamilton.

To be sure, it is an anomato-poetic lyric.

Washington says, hit him quick, get out fast, and Hamilton responds with the sound effect, chick-a-plow.

But those are words I wrote out.

Those are words that every Hamilton who performs in Hamilton sings in time

it's not a moment where they can make whatever sound effect up they want the lyric as written on the page and written across the music is chick-a-plow

I thought this was a very common anamata

poetic phrase apparently it's not

but

it is what I think Hamilton would respond with.

So it's a lyric in the show, even though it is not

an existing yet word.

Hopefully it will become one.

That's the fun of getting to be a writer.

You sometimes get to make up language.

Thanks, Judge.

Big fan.

First time caller.

How about that?

Chick-a-plow, I think is the appropriate thing to say.

That's a chick-a-plow situation.

Thank you, Lynn, for voice mummoing in so swiftly.

With that justice.

And Emily, I'm sorry that you're wrong, but now you know.

Chick-a-plow.

Am I on a show with Lynn Manuel Miranda right now?

Yeah,

you're on Broadway.

You're on Broadway.

My favorite part of his recording is

him saying that every actor who plays Hamilton cannot just make up what they want to say there,

which to me sounds wonderful.

And

I remember that Lynn is a big fan of the McElroy family of podcasts and has frequently snuck in secret gestures as shout outs to the McElroy's because they do a beep beep good job thing.

And

you can't see us because it's a podcast, but it's like honking a horn quickly twice, beep, beep, good job.

And Lynn has done this on talk shows.

I kind of even feel like he did it at the Tony's performing a song from Hamilton, something like that.

So I'm just saying, like, you know, look, Lynn couldn't be more of a supporter of the show.

I don't want to do anything to undermine the work of art that is Hamilton, except it would be really funny to me as a secret shout out to Judge John Hodgman and all of its many listeners, including Lynn.

If you're an actor playing Hamilton in any production, make something up instead of Chick-a-Plow.

Do you think in that Christian version that they just did that they say Chick-fil-A instead of Chick-a-Plow?

Chick-fil-A.

Chick-a-plow.

That's the end of this podcast.

The docket is clear.

That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Jennifer, thank you.

Oh, Jennifer, I almost forgot.

The name of the restaurant.

Yeah.

Okay, everybody, write it down.

The name of the restaurant is Ristaurante Riviera.

Here's my Google comment.

Not a great name.

Not very memorable.

It's in Venice on the Fundamenta Zatari al Ponte Longo.

And the owner really mixes it up in the comments, including saying to someone who gave his restaurant a bad review, you, madam, are a liar.

I love it.

Monty Belmonte and Joel Mann, what a pleasure it was to share time and in our case monty space uh we're here at weru community radio 89.9 fm it is a community supported community funded radio uh i have here a a piece of paper that has been put in front of me highlighting the mission WERU Community Radio is an independent, non-commercial, educational media organization.

The vision, WERU will empower and inspire individuals of our community by sharing diverse music information and perspectives, and the values, diversity, equity, and inclusion, civility and respect, social justice, a gallon of scallops, and always until the end of time, carrying Harry Shearer's LeShow.

Good job.

Good job.

Beep, beep.

Good job.

Joel, anything I miss on your mission statement there?

No, that's about it.

All right.

WERU.org, if you want to become a supporter and a listener.

And Monty, what's your mission statement down there at WRSI The River for your morning show?

We don't really have an official one that sounds as good as that.

So I just tell people it's low-minded humor for high-minded people.

You can follow Joel at the main man on Instagram, and I encourage you to do that.

Is that right, Joel?

That's right.

The main M-A-I-N-E man, M-A-N-N, no spaces or hyphens, I'm glad to say, The Main Man.

Monty, where are you on social medias?

I'm at Monty Belmonte on most things.

Monty Belmonte on Most Things.

That's Monty with an E.

I'm at Hodgman on Twitter.

I am personally on Instagram at John Hodgman.

And of course, we as a podcast are on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman, which I'm going to say something, Jennifer Marmor, about that Judge John Hodgman account, which you are, you're holding down the fort over there.

And currently, because

I started up a long time ago, I've got some

more followers than Judge John Hodgman, but you're killing me in engagement.

It's not a competition,

but the Judge John Hodgman listeners are so engaged.

So many more comments, so many more likes.

Maybe that's because I'm only taking pictures of ceilings in Maine every five weeks over there on my regular thing.

If you want a lively community, go to at JudgeJohn Hodgman, subscribe over there.

And make sure to hashtag your JudgeJohn Hodgman tweets and posts and stuff.

Hashtag JJHO.

And also, if you want a lively community, check out the Maximum Fun subreddit to discuss this episode.

Just go to Reddit and look up Maximum Fun.

You'll find it.

Hey, Monty, you know, every week we ask for specific disputes.

Disputes are currently pouring in for our big Halloween episode.

Keep them coming.

I want to have a big grab bag stuffed full of dispute candies for us to unwrap on air when it gets to be,

it's murder time

all across the Halloween observing world.

Also, by the way, if you have a dispute, for example, that only Aiden, our friend who curates his own museum of Spirit Halloween, stand-ups in his basement,

if you have a dispute that only Aiden can answer, send that in.

What about some more musical theater disputes?

That would be fun to hear.

Is Lynn-Manuel Miranda a good choice to play Roy Scheider in Fossie Verden or the best choice?

What's another musical theater dispute, Monty?

Is Cats worth it?

Is Cats worth it?

Which West Side story is the best side story?

Ooh.

Hmm?

How about that?

We're also eager to hear about all of your disputes on any subject.

No case is too small.

No case is too big.

Some cases are a little too medium, but I love reading them anyway, and I'll write you back and let you know.

So please remember to submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash JJHO.

This is Judge John Hodgman signing off from WERU saying good night, WRSI, FM, and all the ships at sea.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFun.org.

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