Class Bee Spellony

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Class B Spellin-y.

Kendall brings the case against her husband, Dave.

They share a New York Times games account and can't figure out how to play the Spelling B game together.

Kendall wants the game to herself.

Dave wants the option to play it too.

Who's right, who's wrong?

Only one can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

I woke up and my truck was covered with more bees than usual, so I ran outside in my pajamas to see what was going on.

A swarm of bees that I caught the night before was swarming again.

I tried to offer their new hive back to them, but they weren't moving in very quickly.

It was a race between me and the bees.

I had to find the queen before the bees found a new place to fly off to.

After a few minutes, I found her.

I put her in a clip to keep her safe, but before I could put her in the hive, I had bees swarming to my hand.

As soon as I put the queen in the hive, the bees started swarming to her.

I still had some bees on my hand.

They weren't leaving because they could still smell their queen on me.

So I shook them off so they could find her.

I waited for all the bees to get into their hive, and it was another great day of saving the bees.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in.

Kendall and Dave, please rise.

Raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

So help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he is himself a New York Times magazine columnist?

I do.

I do.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

There are many conflicts of interest, I realize, as we fired up the teleconference.

But before we get into those conflicts, Kendall and Dave, you may be seated for immediate summary judgment in one of your favors.

Can either of you name the piece of obscure culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

Dave, why don't you guess first?

I'm at a loss.

I'll say

alternative version of Charlotte's Web.

Alternative version of Charlotte.

A thing that doesn't exist.

Fan fiction.

A deep cut.

A deep cut.

I bet there is definitely some Charlotte's Web fan fiction out there.

I'm going to enter that into the guest book.

What about you, Kendall?

Do you have a guess?

I thought I saw you

lighting on a hint of recognition

to my monologue about bees.

I can tell you that I almost never know the obscure cultural reference.

This is

probably the first time that I think I feel very confident that I think I know the answer, but I don't know if I want to say it because

I don't want an immediate summary judgment.

I want to do the case.

Don't worry.

This court is so corrupt at this point,

given all of the conflicts of interest,

that we will hear the case no matter what.

I will be curious to know if you can.

Possibly.

I'll tell you what, I will make sure you can't guess it.

Even if you guess it right, I'll make sure you can't.

I've faced this before.

Okay, okay.

Is this the B lady with the comforting ASMR monotone voice on Instagram and maybe also TikTok?

The B lady with the comforting ASMR monotone voice on Instagram and TikTok, Whose name is what, Kendall?

I always just thought that her legal name was the bee lady.

The bee lady?

No, it's Erica Thompson.

Sorry.

Blew that one, Kendall.

Erica with a K, Thompson with a P.

Jesse, are you familiar with the Bee Lady on Instagram and TikTok?

She talks about bees.

Oh, Jesse.

She's a beekeeper in Texas,

and she just posts videos.

She gets called in to move beehives out of people's grills or under their decks or in their recycling bins.

Bees, you know, they'll form a hive anywhere.

They're not particular.

And if you've got a hive where you don't want one, you call in this bee lady.

She comes in without any equipment, just her hair and a ponytail, no gloves, just starts grabbing, not grabbing,

gently removing

clumps of honeycomb and putting them into new hives.

And she gets covered in bees,

but they don't sting her because

they like her too much.

She's a magical bee lady who does not get stung and it is such a calming thing to watch.

And every now and then, I don't know if you ever saw this Kendall because I just saw it for the first time myself researching this one.

Sometimes she'll grab a piece of honeycomb and just have a bite while she's with bee, what has bees on it.

She's this charmed creature whom the bees will not will never sting.

Or if they do they're like like just

the gentlest sting.

And she speaks in this monotone and every one of her little mini essays ends with, it was another great day of saving the bees.

And it's such, I mean, I just got some ASMR tingles on my scalp just saying it.

Erica Thompson.

We got to get some real bee disputes, not spelling bee disputes.

Beekeeping disputes.

And we need some apiology disputes so that we can get Erica Thompson because I want this podcast to be a success.

But hey, it's already a success because we have Kendall and Dave.

There are some conflicts of interest.

A,

people who have followed me on Instagram when I do Get Your Pets will know Kendall as

the person associated with the dog Abby, who also does dog portraits in, is it cross stitch or is it needlepoint?

It's embroidery.

Embroidery, excuse me.

And you did a one, and you are, I am one of your clients.

You did a wonderful embroidery portrait of our cat,

Lolo the dum-dum cat, which is one of our prized possessions.

And you have also, I just was alerted, I have heard a case from you, and I did not know that it was you, Kendall, and you, Dave, whom I'm meeting for the first time.

I did not know it was you two that I was going to hear, whose case I was going to hear today

until I brought up my briefing this morning.

Nor did I know, I've also settled another dispute for you in the New York Times where I am indeed a professional author author of a very small column net, a little columnella, Judge John Hodgman, where I settled a dispute between you and Dave over what Dave was making

hot dog and mackerel sandwiches or something.

What was the issue?

Tuna fish and peanut butter, not together, just in sequence.

No, together.

Together.

They were not mixed together.

It was a meal, and the meal included both tuna fish and peanut butter.

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

I was under the impression that you were serving tuna fish and peanut butter sandwiches to your children in order to expand their taste buds.

And I ruled in your favor.

You did.

Because even though that's gross, it's great to let kids eat whatever they want.

And if they are as adventurous as they are to eat peanut butter and tuna sandwiches, then that will only stand them in good stead later.

But now you're telling me

it was all based on a lie?

It was part of the same meal.

And so it was, it was ex I would argue it's still expanding their taste buds.

They were mixed together.

I think if you give any food to a child under two, you can assume that it will all be eaten at the same time.

Did the fact checkers of the New York Times contact you yes or no?

Not me.

Wow.

Oh my gosh.

Another New York Times scandal.

First, their dumb editorial about cancel culture and now this?

Oh my goodness.

Well, I'm a subscriber and a very happy contributor.

So please don't fire me, New York Times.

Nor will I fire myself from this case, even though we have had interactions before.

I can still dispense completely impartial justice on the case today, which involves the New York Times games section, your crossword, your spelling bee, controversially now, your wordle.

Who seeks justice in this court?

I do, Your Honor.

Kendall, I find in your favor.

Thank you very much for your wonderful portrait of our cat.

Well done.

Waiter.

Your gifted artisan.

I found in your favor before, Dave,

even when I thought you were mashing up peanut butter and tuna together.

Okay, no, what is the issue?

You like to do the spelling B, and so does Dave.

What's going on?

Yes.

So

I am a big word puzzle person.

I do the crossword puzzle every single day.

What's your streak?

What's your streak?

My longest streak ever or my current streak?

Give me both.

I just looked it up.

My longest streak ever is 168 games.

Nice.

Which I thought was a little on the low side.

I think I must have accidentally checked a puzzle at some point and ruined my streak.

My current streak is 49

games.

So

I have a little ways to go to get back up there.

I started doing it again after a long time away.

It's wonderful.

It's what it is.

That's wonderful.

So I love doing the crossword.

And then when Spelling Bee came along, I jumped on that.

And

last fall, my family was all together.

My brother and sister-in-law were visiting for an extended time from Asia.

And so my whole family, my parents, and my brother and my sister-in-law, all would do the spelling bee together.

And Dave started jumping in and doing the spelling B.

And so I would go and sit down and for my daily ritual of doing the B and it would be halfway done.

And then Dave would say, well, you can get the pangram, which for people that don't play the B, it's the word that uses all seven letters in the spelling B, which is, it's kind of like the little like cherry on top of the game.

Cherry on top of the game.

Yes.

Well, so for those people who are maybe not familiar with the spelling bee in in the New York Times games section, it is a word search puzzle equivalent to a boggle, which normally I hate.

But in this case, I don't mind the spelling bee because all the letters are in the same direction, unlike boggle, where they're going any which way.

It's a real boggle.

And the, and it's how many letters?

Let me, I have to look it up.

One, two, three, four, seven letters arranged

in a honeycomb style.

So there is one central letter surrounded by six six other letters, and you are trying to form as many words as you can

using those letters and always using the central letter.

So, for example, today I happen to open it.

It's been a long time since I've looked at this game because this one also became a problem in my life.

The central letter is C, and the letters around it are X-T-A-I-M-O.

So, of course, I want to make axiom, but I can't because it doesn't have the C in it.

And they have to be four-letter words at a minimum.

And right now, I'm unable to make a single word.

Oh, coat.

C-O-A-T.

There we go.

I got one.

And you get points for each of the words you make, more points if the words are longer.

There is a maximum number of words you can find.

And if you get all of the words that are possible, you are called the queen bee.

If you get a certain minimum number of points, you are called a genius, which

is something I definitely need a website to tell me every day.

And

if you get a word that uses all seven letters, that is usually called the pangram because there usually is only one.

But sometimes there's more than one pangram.

And you like to do it, and your family was visiting, and they were all doing it.

And this is something you play on

a website or on a on a application, right?

You can't play this on paper.

It doesn't work, does it?

I mean, you could

scoring.

You could if you wanted to, yeah, but then you wouldn't be called a genius or the queen bee.

Right.

And so

your family came and visited.

They were all doing it together.

And then since then, Dave has been interested in doing it.

He's been using your account and been finding about half the words before you even look at it.

Is that correct, Dave?

That's not exactly correct.

So this is my account.

Oh, okay.

So Kendall has been used, her crossword puzzle and her spelling bee are all under my New York Times account.

Uh-huh.

So I wasn't,

I hadn't been doing the spelling bee before.

I've never done the crossword puzzle.

But when we got together, it was a nice family bonding experience where we would have a group chat.

When Kendall's mom got genius, I think for the first time, she sent a chat with the picture over of her winning genius, and everyone celebrated.

And it was a very nice community family bonding time.

And I got on the app and started playing as well.

So the first time you discovered Dave was playing

after your family had left.

Does your family still play?

My family still plays.

It's kind of hard to describe, but basically my brother and sister-in-law were visiting from, they live in Asia, and so they had COVID issues getting back, and they ended up, their visit ended up being extended.

So they would stay sometimes with us and sometimes with my parents, and then sometimes all of us would all get together.

And so this was when kind of the spelling bee took off in our family because my parents play it together and my brother and sister-in-law play it together.

And I think Dave wanted to play it with me, but it had kind of started out as my own little thing that I enjoy doing.

Your own little corner of Dave's New York Times subscription.

Yes, exactly.

The one little bit that was only yours.

Like the two of you have to share Jamel Bui.

We all do.

We can't all have Jamel Buoy to ourselves as much as we want.

But the spelling bee was all yours.

Is that right?

Yes, the games were mine.

I suggested adding that subscription.

So by playing together,

one way to play together is that two different people on two different devices will use the same login to be solving the game simultaneously, to be playing and finding words simultaneously.

And the points accrue to both of them, as it were, correct?

Yes.

Right.

And you had previously been doing it on your own, and then you discovered one day Dave kept it going.

I logged on to play, and he had solved all the easy words.

And so he had left all the hard words for me.

Wow.

On purpose, Dave, or do you only know easy words?

Easy words are easy to get.

Absolutely true.

And then when I said to him, you did the spelling bee already, he said, well, I left the pangrom for you.

Like it was a gift, not like he just couldn't get the pangr and needed me to get it.

And then if I did get it, he would text the group chat or he would say to our family, if we were all in the same place, I'm the genius B.

Stolen valor.

Wait, I immediately assumed that you were going to say, he would text the family and say, say, we are geniuses, referring to him and you, Kendall.

But in fact, he not only participated in the credit, he took all of the credit.

I don't have a memory of Kendall going over the threshold of genius and me claiming genius from

once she got the genius word.

I do have a memory of me stepping in when the puzzle was already in process, getting enough words to get us to genius

and then making a declaration.

And then saying, I am the genius bee.

I don't remember if it was an I or a wee.

Oh my goodness.

Like William Carlos Williams, who shall say, I'm not the happy genius of my household.

Me, I'll say it.

You've got to admit, Dave, that's a little bit nervy, wouldn't you say?

A little bit nervy.

It's so nervy that I'm not even sure that's actually what happened.

Oh, geez.

Look, I have a little concern here because I was told peanut butter and tuna fish together.

Now, either Kendall is misrepresenting that and everything, or Dave, you are changing the facts of the case to fit yourself after the fact of the case.

Can I ask if Kendall submitted any evidence to support this?

There should be a text record.

Yeah, let me just go down here and check.

Oh, the only evidence that Kendall submitted is a picture of their dog Abby dressed as a bee.

That's very interesting.

Compelling, I would say.

This is pretty adorable.

Jesse Thorne, I'm not sure if this evidence has made its way to you into your little room over there in Los Angeles.

I found it.

It's not just dresses, it dresses like

a

bee-themed harlequin.

Yeah, there's a lot of bumblebee frill going on.

It is a ballet costume.

It's actually our daughter's ballet costume from when she was

three, I think.

Three.

Yeah, she was a dog.

She was a dog dressed as a bumblebee.

She was a bumblebee.

So we had the costume line around and yeah,

that's just how our dog's face looks all the time.

It's a very sweet dog.

Yeah.

But this is not evidence.

Dave raises a good point.

This is not evidence of Dave's malfeasance.

This is a picture of a dog.

This is a serious accusation, and we know someone's not always telling the truth in this family.

Do you attest now, under oath, under penalty of perjury in this fake internet law court, that Dave wrote, I am the genius bee?

Yes or no, Kendall?

Yes.

Is there any shred of doubt in your mind?

No shred, because when I mentioned this to him less than a week ago, he said, and I quote,

when I put in the words, the screen pops up and says, I am a a genius bee.

Uh-huh.

But to be clear, this is a different scenario than Kendall just described.

This is me getting the words that were necessary to

get the genius bee title.

When you get genius bee title, and again, it's been a while since I've done the spelling bee because it became a problem in my life.

I don't remember,

do you have an automatic, like a button to press to share it to your text or your social messages the way you do now with Wordle?

No, I don't think so.

I think when my mom did it, she took a screenshot and she sent it because they like to do it on their phone, my mom and my dad.

Right.

Okay,

you keep trying to get us to talk about your family.

I know, I'm sorry.

No,

probably wonderful.

But I'm trying to figure, there's some slipperiness of fact here that I'm trying to unslipper.

So

every time you say, Dave texted I am the genius bee, then Dave goes, Actually, the thing popped up.

I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

When I ask you, is there a way to text the thing that pops up?

You say, My mom and dad do another thing.

I don't care.

I'm sorry, Kendall.

You're wonderful with your needlework.

I just need some straight answers from both of you.

I'm going to ask you again.

And you are, again, I will remind you, you're under oath.

Did Dave text I am the genius be to the family group?

Yes.

Did he write those words with his thumbs or did he take a screen grab or share an asset that was given to him by the spelling bee itself?

No, he typed those words into the chat and pressed send.

With his own hands.

I assume I wasn't there to see it, but I assume he used his hands.

I appreciate your caution and not speaking hearsay.

You could provide evidence of this if I asked you to?

No, unfortunately, I do not.

My phone is very low on memory, and I have to delete all my

response to this accusation.

I can provide the absence of evidence.

Wow.

Permission to treat as hostile witness?

Oh, I give myself permission.

Yes.

This is called jazz lawyering.

It's about the evidence that isn't there.

Dave, did you type I am the genius B?

Yes or no?

I do remember typing something to the effect of being a genius when I cleared the threshold.

necessary to get genius status.

I don't know if I typed I am a genius D.

But you keep saying when I crossed the threshold without mentioning that you were standing on the shoulder of all those words.

You crossed that threshold because you were standing on all those words that Kendall already got.

That's fair.

Let's take a quick recess.

We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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Is this the full nature of your complaint, Kendall, or has Dave done other things that are like right now?

He's playing the game when previously it had been your game to play.

Emily, it's his account.

He, you know, it's in his name, although you are a married couple, correct?

Yes.

Do you have joint finances?

Yes.

Right.

Okay.

So it's your money, too.

So we already established that he's playing the game that you used to consider to be yours and yours alone, rightly or wrongly, right?

That's complaint A.

Complaint B is he's taking credit for accomplishments within the game, like making genius

and not being forthcoming that it is a collaboration.

In this case, a non-consensual collaboration, but a collaboration all the same.

So is there anything else that Dave does that I need to know about?

Yes, I do think it's important to know that when I told him that I wanted to do the spelling bee by myself, he said that was totally fine.

And

if I got to the spelling bee game before he did, he would be happy to just let me do it myself.

And shortly after this conversation, I got up in the middle of the night to get a glass of water, went out to the living room, and he was at four 4 in the morning sitting on the couch doing the bee for that day.

Okay, so you're saying that he gave you no chance to get started first.

Yes, exactly.

Dave, what's going on?

Are you very competitive?

I think we're both very competitive.

I also have

strange sleeping habits, so I'm sometimes up at 4 a.m.

and

I will do Wordle now, or I will do the B previously.

I don't even want to talk about Wordle.

Or maybe we'll talk about it later.

Kendall,

do you believe that Dave just happened to get up or do you or are you alleging that he's so competitive that he decided he would get to it before you did just to out of spite, just to beat you in the game?

I don't think that he purposefully woke up in the middle of the night to get to the bee before me.

He does have very strange sleeping habits, so it's not unusual for him to be awake in the middle of the night.

But I do think that he woke up and realized that there's a new bee at, I think, 3 a.m.

Eastern time and thought

he would just sneak in there and take care of it before anybody noticed.

Have you ever tried to play together intentionally?

Like, okay, if this is the way it's going to be, let's try and do it together.

We'll sit down together with our respective phones and try to solve it together in real time and give each other hints and have fun.

Or is this merely just

a battle to get there first at this point?

I can think of one occasion.

One nice occasion.

I can think of several unpleasant occasions.

Dave, do you have a nice occasion or a not unpleasant occasion?

I have a nice occasion.

What's nearly a nice occasion?

We spent a weekend in Maine and New Hampshire a couple months ago and went to brunch and spent a nice leisurely brunch.

And after brunch, sat down together and did the B.

Do you consider that to be an example of a nice occasion, Kendall, or was that a not nice occasion?

Yes, I would say that was the one nice time that we did do it together.

Were you in New Hampshire or Maine at that point?

We were in New Hampshire, I think, right?

I'm sorry, it's not a very nice occasion, then.

I apologize.

What was an unpleasant occasion?

Well, I think think usually when

he would start it and I would have to jump in and do it and take, you know, find the rest of the words.

Or if I was already doing it and he would see that I was doing it and sort of over my shoulder try to suggest words.

And I sort of have two modes of competition, which is either I

don't care about it at all and can't get bothered really to try hard or care much about it, or I care so much about it that it becomes like

a real problem.

So, Dave knows this about me, and this is why we don't really do things that require us to compete against each other because

it can turn unhappy sort of quickly.

I have a note here to ask you about the Scrabble incident.

Yes.

That is never any good.

Anytime someone has a Scrabble memory, that is usually a memory of conflict or humiliation or regret.

Which is it in your case?

Yeah, probably kind of a little bit of all of those things.

Yeah.

What is the Scrabble incident?

Well,

we were on our honeymoon and we were in Italy.

Nice.

At this point, we were in Chinquatera,

which was absolutely beautiful.

And

it was towards the end of our honeymoon, which was absolutely wonderful.

But it was very, it was a long honeymoon.

I think we went for three weeks.

And before that, I had been sort of living out of a suitcase.

I had to move from New York to Chicago where Dave was living.

And so I was kind of at the point in my

life where I just wanted to stop living out of a suitcase and I wanted to kind of get back to my home and live my normal life again.

And I think I was just feeling a little, you know, when you go through so many emotions and kind of you're feeling a little emotionally wrung out.

So I think I had sort of reached that point.

And we were literally on a balcony overlooking probably one of the most beautiful places in the entire world with probably a glass of wine.

And

Dave beat me at Scrabble, which

I'm a literally professional author.

And so word stuff has always kind of been my thing.

Dave is an economist.

So he gets all like the number logical things.

You're saying he got out of his lane?

Well,

he beat me, and

I did not take it well.

I think I really needed a win at that point.

Yeah.

So

he beat me, and I think that was the last game of Scrabble we've ever played, which was more than a decade ago.

Wait a minute.

I presume you threw this travel Scrabble set over the balcony.

It's in our living room somewhere.

No.

You should have thrown that right over the balcony.

That's the David Reese move.

When someone wins and they shouldn't,

it's within the rules.

Ask David Reese.

If someone wins and they shouldn't, you flip the board.

That's within the rules.

I'll remember that for next time.

You were upset that

your beloved husband, whom you had just married, and a whole human being in his own right, beat you at Scrabble.

You are an author of books.

You're the words person.

You love word games.

And he beat you, and he's an economist economist for God,

for whatever damn sake.

What do the word games mean to you, Kendall?

Well,

I really enjoy them.

I think that

especially for a writer, you sort of need to have those little

maybe slightly procrastination techniques before you can actually sit down and write.

To me, I kind of think of it as like

it fires up my brain a little bit.

It gives me something to,

you know, it's a task that I can accomplish every single day.

And it's a nice part of my routine.

And,

you know, and I think that I'm very good at it to kind of say something nice about myself.

So I'm very proud.

Thank you.

I'm very proud of,

you know, my word smithing abilities and crosswording and Scrabble and Wordle and Spelling Bean, all those things.

I find them really, really fun.

And

it's just a very personal ritual to me.

And

if

Dave and I wanted to do something collaboratively, I enjoy doing that.

Like we do puzzles together.

That's kind of like the only collaboration.

Well, that's not neutral zone because it's not words or nor numbers.

It's shapes.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You're saying this is your territory yes and and you feel you're like your territory is being invaded and his territory is what is his territory would you say

so he's very good at uh at sports for sure a couple times we'll do um you know we'll we'll run together or we'll do other sort of we used to swim together um

and you know he's he's naturally more talented at that stuff than I am.

And then chess is his, is his big thing.

So

he,

I will say for sure, he is a much better chess player than I will ever be in my entire life.

And, you know, I was talking a couple of days ago with your producer about one time we went to a bar and Dave was like several drinks in and I had had maybe a sip of my drink and he still wiped the floor with me.

And that is totally fine because I know that I will just never beat him.

So I'm happy to kind of just play with him.

But

when it was my my own kind of little game that he just sort of jumped into, I did feel a little like,

can I just have my little bee to myself, my own little corner?

Does Dave step into your corner in other ways?

I mean, you're married.

You share a life together.

But does he have a habit of taking things that you like and making them his own?

We actually have, I would say, maybe

because of kind of our personalities, we have very separate spheres of influence, I would say, that he kind of has the things that he takes care of and enjoys, and I have the things that I take care of and enjoy.

And we actually sort of joke that we have pretty much nothing in common with each other.

But Dave, maybe you want to have something in common.

Maybe that's why you want to play.

That's a generous interpretation.

Why do you want to play the spelling bee after you've heard everything that Kendall has said to me and I presume has already said to you?

I think what attracted me to the spelling bee initially was the ability to do it together.

And so putting aside the

texts and things like that, there are.

I'm sure you would love to put aside the texts.

You've been trying to put aside the texts from the beginning.

I enjoyed having the chance to text about words

with Kendall's family.

Her brother and I,

over when he was there over break, wrote a little program for to kind of find different words in the spelling bee.

And it's just, it's a communal activity.

And so don't, Dave,

I don't want to hear about Kendall's family anymore.

I'm sure they're lovely people.

So this Sunday morning, I was sitting downstairs.

Our older daughter came down, who's in second grade.

Right.

So we sat down together.

It was a, it was a cold morning.

We were sitting under the electric blanket.

She was reading.

So she got a Kindle last year.

So she was reading on her Kindle.

I opened up my phone and started playing Wordle.

She had been doing Wordle in school to learn new words.

And so she understands the concept of the game.

And so we were doing the Wordle together.

I don't know if anyone has done it.

It was the one this past weekend where there were no vowels.

And so it was...

How do we think about this word?

It was.

Why do you mean there were no vowels?

Well, there were no A-A-E-I-O-U.

And so it was a moment of,

well, why can be a vowel sometimes?

So we were talking through the different words that you might be able to.

Just tell me, everyone's done it.

What was this?

So this was nymph.

Nymph.

Oh, good one.

I like that.

And I'm sure everyone on Twitter was like, what is a nymph?

How dare you, New York Times?

You ruined Wordle with nymph.

I think there was a fair amount of that.

So we finished the Wordle, and she said to me, can we do the B?

And so I said to her, we can't do the B because mommy does the B.

Whoa.

And then I said it again loudly enough for Kendall to hear upstairs.

Oh, sure.

Right.

It's not passive aggression unless you say it so the other person can hear it.

So there are moments where inspiration strikes that I would like the opportunity, such as spending a morning with our daughter.

Everyone

can now stop yelling at their podcast listening device, whatever it might be.

Obviously, I'm going to ask the question,

why not just get a separate account for you, Kendall, to do the puzzles on your own?

How much is a games account for the New York Times?

You can sign up on your own, can't you?

I could, yes.

Or you can't.

It doesn't matter because you would be leaving your streak behind on the crossword.

Yes, that is the problem, is that

Dave uses his account to do everything in the New York Times.

And if I got a new account, I would lose my streak and all my statistics, which I believe now is at 1,300 games, over 1,300.

Of the, by games, you're talking about crossword puzzles?

Crossword puzzles, yes.

I don't want to get rid of my statistics not only because I enjoy looking at them from time to time, but it keeps track of your personal records and then it averages your personal records for how fast you solve the puzzle.

So it's kind of an extra challenge to try to beat your average or get a best time.

Yeah, I know how they keep me sucked in.

I know how they got me back.

I had put that crossword puzzle down for so long, I didn't need it anymore.

I didn't need it in my life anymore.

I was happy I got that time back.

They got me back.

They got me back again.

You know what it was, Jesse Thorne?

What's that?

It was Mark Gagliardi of the We Got This

podcast on maximum fun posted on his Instagram his 365-day streak

of completed crossword puzzles without checking, without cheating.

And

it was on January 1st of this year.

And he said, should I go for another year?

And I'm like,

Mark, I'm going to go get it.

And I'm in there now, 88 days.

If I lost that streak, honestly, I don't know what I would do.

I would be very, very upset.

John, have you heard about my streak?

No, what's your streak?

It's called the Drama of the Gifted Child streak.

I'm on year 41 of

not feeling like my accomplishments are worth celebrating, but feeling like if I fail to accomplish them, it's a failure.

Oh, wait till let me tell you something, Jesse.

Wait till you get to year 50.

Oh, you're just 41 years, huh, Jesse?

Jesse?

I'm on 50.

I don't know.

Trying to do anything turns out to just be a setup for an L.

Stick with it, kid.

We'll get to 50.

Okay.

Dave, for you, there is potential value in doing the game together.

But for Kendall, the value is doing the game alone.

Do you feel left out?

I think it's a missed opportunity.

I think doing games together is a nice family experience.

I don't think it needs to be all the time.

And so I don't know what potential rulings are allowed in in

this custody battle.

Whatever I want.

How about that?

Well, Kendall has asked me to rule that

from here on out, she has the game to herself.

And I have here that you would like me to rule that you should you can have the option to play slash partial custody of the game.

Basically, do whatever you want whenever you want, right?

No, no, not whenever I want, whenever, but I think there are certain opportunities to play where they're either together or with family.

In certain circumstances, there should be some exemption of Kendall's complete control of the game.

What would the exemptions be?

Give me a compromise.

Fridays?

You ask first, and if she says sure, yes, and if she says no thanks, then you don't push it.

What's your compromise between her having it to herself and you being able to go in and do all the small words and claiming things for yourself whenever you feel like it?

If there are certain times

I would enjoy playing with Kendall or with our daughters to have a chance to say that, to have a chance to play,

not often, maybe

once a month, but...

when the opportunity is there to play, to be able to do that.

But you determine when that opportunity arrives.

Because for Kendall, there's never that opportunity.

She wants nothing to do with you.

She wants nothing to do with your daughters, at least as far as the spelling B is concerned.

But if you sense, like, oh, this is a good day to do it with our daughter, this is a good day, then you decide.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Is there anything else you'd like me to rule if I were to order in your favor, Dave?

I'm thinking back to the tuna and peanut butter and jelly.

I just want to make sure that ruling is still solid.

Let me just say, Dave, whether the tuna and peanut butter were mushed together or served sequentially, I still believe there was value in your experiment.

You brought value to the table

both in terms of expanding the palate of your children and encouraging their experimentation and helping them to find value in different kinds of foods, but also the value of spending time with them and having that fun together.

I am fully in your favor on that one, Dave.

I fully rule in your favor.

Okay.

As for this one, I will be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Dave, how do you feel about your chances right now?

I felt better when we started.

I thought I was losing ground a little bit toward the end, so I'm a little nervous.

Kendall, how about you?

Yeah, I thought that I was going to be seen as the villain for stealing the bee, and I heard a lot of

you're going to lose the bee from,

you know, somebody else in the courtroom today.

So I'm feeling hopeful, more hopeful than when I started.

We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You know, we've we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, and Me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no.

No, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the case.

I want to mention something.

Please.

Before we get into what you've got coming up, because you do have something really cool coming up.

Yeah.

You know how you made this television show called Dick Town that's available right now on Hulu to stream?

I'm aware of it, yes.

Thank you for thinking of it.

I just want you to know that I don't want you to think that I didn't notice that you put in a Satsuma joke.

I like Satsumas when they're in season.

We were watching it with my mother-in-law.

My wife and I were watching the show with my mother-in-law.

And my wife paused the show and turned to my mother-in-law and said, They put that in there for Jesse.

That's right.

And I realized that I have this royalty check for you.

For $200 million.

Holy cow, the WGA is really serious about favorite fruit-related ideas.

$200 million.

No,

it's not that.

And Jesse, I'll buy you some Satsumas.

Oh, thank you.

But that is from our episode called The Mystery of the Strawberry Patch, episode 3.

All episodes of both season 1 and season 2 are now available at bit.ly slash Dick Town.

That's on Hulu.

Go to Hulu and search up Dicktown.

Hey, if you Googled Dicktown, guess what?

You see a picture of me.

It's always been my goal.

Yeah.

But Jesse,

you have some in real life stuff happening.

Yeah.

I mean,

this is really something.

I looked at my calendar and I'm and rather than just the

blasted plane of emptiness,

there are things coming up.

Live events are happening and I want to tell you about them.

So when this episode releases, it will be a Wednesday, April the 6th.

And if you are listening to it on time

or tomorrow, and you happen to be in or near Denver, won't you come see me?

Have a little conversation with who?

Jeff Tweedy of Wilco?

Yes.

Wow.

Wow.

It's Jeff Tweedy's night, everybody.

I'm just there to throw some questions at him and let him be adorable in a jean jacket.

That's his job.

Jeff Tweedy at the Paramount Theater with John Hodgman in conversation.

You can just Google.

You can get all the deets at at WilcoWorld.net.

WilcoWorld.net.

That's the Wilco official thing.

And of course, we have Solid Sound coming up.

But before that, I'm going to go up to the State Theater in Portland, Maine to join

one of the top other podcasts, Jesse.

Love it or leave it.

Wow, very good.

John Lovett from

very popular.

John Lovett from Pod Save America.

A different guy.

Different guy.

Got it.

He did produce, he was the showrunner and creator of one season of a sitcom called 1600 Pen.

Oh, okay.

But he's also a former Obama staffer and co-host of Pod Save America and his own comedy show, Love It or Leave It.

I will be

one of the guests on that show live at the State Theater in our beloved Portland, Maine.

It won't be the same to be there without you, Jesse, because that was one of the last places we performed in 2019.

We hope to come back soon as well.

But for now, I am the advance guard.

I'll be up there fumigating the place making sure that it's ready for judge john hodgman and his listeners you can just go to state theaterportland.com or just google hodgman love it with two t's state theater portland you'll find it that's may 19th and then after that nary a week i will be returning to north adams massachusetts for the solid sound festival which is wilco's big three-day festival of music and art and performance.

Obviously, Wilco, Jeff Tweedy, and the gang are going to be playing two big nights out there on the lawn at Mass Mocha, the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art, this beautiful old factory that was turned into this incredible multi-gallery museum of large-scale installation art.

It's worthy a visit of itself, never mind when Wilco is invading it.

And of course, I will be hosting, co-hosting, I should say, with our dear friend Gene Gray, the comedy stage, all day Saturday afternoon with lots of special guests, including Naguin Farsad, River Butcher, and Nick Offerman.

Nick Offerman and I are going to go to the Maloof house together.

I should plug that.

Go to the Put This On shop if you want to see what I'm up to.

It's not just, look, the volume of trading cards in the Put This On shop has exploded.

I'm going to be frank.

Yeah.

It's distressing at this point that the range of trading cards

that you can get in the Put This On shop.

It's not just Dune and Dark Crystal anymore.

Now there's Ididerod Training Cards.

I did a Rod Training Cards.

Yeah.

That's all at putthison Shop.com.

Plus, all those brass belt buckles.

We just made a huge, huge drop of brass belt buckles from the 70s, including those ones that have your name on them.

And we got so many names.

I bought out like a huge collection of name belt buckles.

So your name is probably available at putthisonshop.com right now.

Use the code VintageJustice for free shipping on almost everything in the store in the United States.

Shall we get back to the case?

Let's do it.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his binding verdict.

So, as I mentioned, I had gotten the crossword puzzle out of my life.

I love it.

I love the crossword puzzle.

And here are my rules for the crossword puzzle, everybody.

And by the crossword puzzle, I mean the New York Times crossword puzzle, but there are a lot of other crossword puzzles out there, including a lot of great independent cruciverbalist websites where great constructors are making great crosswords.

You should check them all out if you love the crossword.

I love the crossword.

I love the pleasure of

taking chaos, much like the spelling bee, what looks like chaos, and organizing it into words and concepts and phrases that I understand.

I also love the crossword, unlike the spelling bee, has a trivia element to it.

There are those questions where either you know it or you don't know it.

And I'll tell you, I do not mind looking it up on Wikipedia if I don't know it.

Because guess what?

I learned a thing.

It was not just a waste of time

learning the tricky crossword puzzle words that are always there, like Eli or

what's another classic one that I'm thinking of?

Ute.

Ute.

Yeah, ute.

Thank you, Kendall.

You're not just learning how to do the crossword puzzle.

You're mainly learning how to do the crossword puzzle.

You're also learning a little bit about the world.

And the B is also similar to that.

You're taking chaos.

This is why it was addictive, even though they weren't giving out streaks on the B.

If you did the B one day, the history of you were doing the B that day was erased the next day.

You did not gain points or renown or text bragging rights for having done it a certain number of days in a row.

You did it and it was gone because it was just

a moment of meditation, essentially.

Well, I got back into the crossword puzzle

because of Mark Gegliardi.

And

Kendall, you'll find this interesting.

About two weeks ago,

and Dave, you might too.

I don't know.

It's a great story.

I'm an incredible storyteller.

A couple of weeks ago,

I got up in the middle of the night around 4 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock, Dave hours.

You know what I mean?

And as I went and I relieved myself in the bathroom and I'm washing my hands, and I realized that I forgot to do the crossword puzzle the previous day.

And my streak was probably going at about 45, 50 days at that point, since it's like be a month ago.

And it was a truly, truly awful feeling.

One, because I felt so disappointed in myself for having forgotten, because it was a Monday or a Tuesday, the easiest day.

That's why I forgot to do it.

Because I was like, I can do that any, it'll take me five minutes to do it today.

And two, because I realized how much that dumb number had meant to me.

It's just a dumb number.

It's like

the day I lost on the Wordle after a 45-day streak or whatever.

Like I broke that streak and I felt so

glum and awful and disappointed in myself.

And I thought to myself,

this is terrible.

It's terrible that

this happened, and it's also terrible that I feel this way about it.

I got on with my life.

I mentioned something about this on Twitter.

I did the previous day's crossword just to get it out of my system.

The one that I forgot to do and lost my streak on.

And then I don't know whether it was later that night or the next day that I looked at it,

my streak came back.

Yeah.

My streak got reinstated.

Holy cow.

I saw that look that Jesse Thorne gave me.

Do you understand what that means, right, Jesse?

There's still hope for Pete Rose?

There's still hope for Pete Rose

because apparently

there's no justice in the world and cheaters get rewarded.

Even I know who Pete Rose is.

I broke the rules somehow, and this does not feel like a computer glitch to me.

This is not one of those things where I did the previous day's puzzle at 1 a.m.

and they counted it anyway.

It was off.

The streak was broken.

It showed where the street ended.

And when I opened my computer and did that puzzle, the streak started up again.

And when I opened my phone to look at it through the application there, I watched that blue non-streak puzzle in the archives turn to gold.

There was intervention.

Is it because I write a column for the New York Times magazine?

Was someone out there looking out for Hodgman's streak?

I don't know.

But this has nothing to do with your case.

It's just something that I needed to say.

It happened.

It happened.

Something happened and someone reinstated my streak i got an asterisk on me kendall and dave

but i still have that streak

and it does have something to do with your case

look here's the thing dave

this is kendall's thing she said it's your it's her thing it's her thing

The spelling bee is a moment of meditation.

And sure, it has a little to do with the fact that she works with words and not numbers, and it activates your brain in a certain way.

I mean, you know, you've solved puzzles too.

There is a deep lizard brain pleasure to solving a puzzle.

It's what we are doing every day as we go out in the world and we see faces and clouds.

It is what our brain is designed to do, is to see patterns where there are none or where we can make them ourselves.

Solving puzzles is deeply pleasurable.

And it is a very important part of brain activation when you are starting to get your day going.

And

it's Kendall's special thing that she likes to do.

Is it fun to do it with friends and family?

Of course.

Of course that can be fun.

Even Kendall can enjoy that from time to time.

But it's still her thing.

Like, sometimes it's fun to do yoga together.

And sometimes it's fun to meditate on your own.

If you see someone meditating,

even if they are your beloved, even if they are married to you,

it is not necessarily cool while they're in the midst of meditation

to sort of lightly kick them with the ball of your feet and go, hey, hey, can I do this too?

I'm sitting down.

I'm doing it too.

Let's go.

Om.

Come on, stay with me.

Om.

That's less meditative.

You know what I mean?

Hey, I'm bringing my daughter over.

We're going to meditate with you.

It's her thing.

And

what's more, she's expressed it to you.

And you're saying, yeah, I know that that's her thing, but it shouldn't be.

We should just do it together when I feel like it.

Like if you had said to me, Dave, like,

I discovered this thing that I really enjoy.

And part of the enjoyment is doing it with her because she's terrific.

It's not just merely taking credit for a genius rank that I didn't earn.

It's fun to do stuff with our daughters and with the person that I love.

But I get it, it's her thing.

So how about a compromise?

You know, we only do it on Sunday mornings, like together, like one day of the week.

We do it together.

Like, I'd be like, that sounds fair, right?

And then Kendall would have been like, no, it's mine.

It's mine and it's only mine.

Baseline principle, though, baseline

settled law,

Judge John Hodgen podcast.

If it's not fun for everybody, it's no fun at all.

And it's not fun for Kendall for you to play her game for her, half, you know, halfway, and then she has to finish it out.

It is fun for you to turn to her and say, hey, do the hardest part for me.

That's fun for you.

That is not fun for her.

Therefore, it's not fun.

The question is, how to solve this?

Because the solution is obvious.

Separate accounts.

It's the obvious solution.

And on the one hand, I'm sure that there are lots of people,

and I think it would be perfectly reasonable

to say say to you Dave sorry you're not allowed to do spelling B anymore even though it's on your account that's where Kendall has her streak stored on the crosswords that's where she's her stats are stored on the crosswords

that would be a reasonable thing to order

but Kendall

here's what I'm saying to you

I hated losing that streak

I hated

even more

having it be reinstated falsely.

And what I hated even more than that was appreciating how much this dumb number meant to me.

Because I'm not a numbers guy.

I'm a words guy.

The number of this streak meant so much to me and became, losing it became a point of shame.

And you know what I don't need more of in my life?

Anxiety, self-doubt, and shame.

I don't need a program telling me I'm inadequate because I got too busy that day to do the Tuesday puzzle.

I appreciate

how important the stats are.

I appreciate the meaning of that number, but there is also

a quality, a meditative quality, a growth quality in appreciating that all of this is an illusion

and you can let it go.

What's your streak again?

My current streak is, I believe, 45.

Yeah.

You're a baby.

You're a baby.

You're like Jesse, 41.

41 years of gifted child syndrome.

45 crosswords.

I'm going to find in your favor on the basis of,

Dave, you have to appreciate that Kendall deserves her own thing, her own realm in this world, in this world and in this marriage and everything else.

And she is allowed allowed to circle a thing that should be hers, just as you are allowed to circle a thing that could, that is just yours.

Like if you were,

you know, I don't know what your, you're,

maybe it wouldn't matter to you if she started horning in on your online chess community or whatever.

Maybe you'd be thrilled about it.

People are different.

But I guarantee you, everyone has a thing that they've got to circle

in in their relationship where it's like,

this is my thing.

This is my time to be alone with whatever.

So I am technically ruling ruling

in your favor, Kendall, but I think you should just get a new account for yourself.

Start fresh.

Not only because I believe that there's a component of emotional health to it, but mostly, and I hope that you agree, and I'm sorry if you don't, but mostly I think getting your own account is just the only way to be sure.

I get the password.

It's the only way to be sure.

I'm sorry that you have to revert to secrets in your marriage, specifically keeping the the password to that account secret in order to maintain

this little area for yourself.

But going forward structurally, it will make sure that your thing is protected

and

that if Dave wants to do the spelling bee with you one day or work on a crossword with you one day or do another game with you one day, that you can come over to his house, as it were, and do those things with him.

And I encourage you to do it.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Dave, how do you feel?

I feel like I got a ruling out of life lesson, so I feel good.

Kendall, how do you feel?

I

appreciate the

letting go of

statistics.

I agree that I think sometimes it can weigh you down.

And this isn't the first time that I've had to restart an account.

I think every time I've had a baby, I've had to stop the streak and then take a year off and then jump back in.

So

I am

going to emotionally prepare to say goodbye to my statistics and

I would love

I would love seeing Dave work on the spelling bee all by himself.

And I'm curious to see how many points he will get.

Dave Kendall, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

In just a second, we'll have Swift Justice.

First, our thanks to Twitter user at RMVance for naming this week's episode Class B Spelliny.

Class B Spelliny.

That's B E E, by the way.

Boy.

Yeah, B-E-E.

If you want to...

It's a real hat on a hat.

If you want to name a future episode, follow us on Twitter for naming opportunities at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

While you're there, you can also hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets, hashtag JJ H O.

We're on Reddit at maximumfund.redddit.com.

Always a lively discussion there.

Evidence and photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account.

That is instagram.com/slash judgejohnhodgman.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Our editor is Valerie Moffat.

Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment.

Kelly says,

I want to know who should fill ice cube trays and when.

My mom says, give me a break.

Not everything needs a rule.

When I scrolled down and saw this for the very first time, not three seconds ago, I almost burst into tears

of delight and relief.

It's true.

Look, I know that our podcast runs on disputes and disputes often hinge on rules and who should do what when.

But it's also true.

Not everything needs a rule.

Not everything needs a rule.

Hey, Jesse, I want to say something.

What's that?

I want to say that that embroidered portrait of my cat that I got from Kendall Backaways,

it's one of the greatest things I've ever seen or owned.

She's truly talented.

I encourage you to Google Grumpy Dog Designs.

I didn't even make a bit.ly for it because I know Grumpy Dog Designs will take you right to kendallculper.com.

You can check out her work and also check out her book, Murder for the Modern Girl, which is coming out, which is a murder story for teenagers.

About a murderous mind-reader.

A murderous mind reader in Gangland, Chicago.

I'm going to check it out.

Meanwhile, I was telling the truth when I said we want some disputes about bees and we want them now.

Do you have a dispute with the apiologist in your life?

Or are you an apiologist who has a rival apiologist?

Do you have a dispute over the rule for how long a beard of bees should be?

That's a lot of alliteration from anxious anchors and important posts.

Jay, write to us at maximumfund.org slash jjho.

We're also still looking for disputes about vehicles.

Jesse, I got some good news.

We have a true, legit gondola dispute.

Oh, my God.

Just came over the transom the other day.

A true gondola dispute.

Still would love a funicular dispute, but I'm very happy that you folks came through with a gondola dispute.

And by vehicles, I'm talking about cars, trikes,

pedal assist bicycles, skateboards, longboards, any kind of dispute you got.

I think we probably have enough Dungeons and Dragons disputes.

I'll just say right now:

you did not let me down, listeners.

But if you have one you think I haven't gotten yet,

maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho.

That's where to send all your disputes.

Jesse, do we want disputes only about bees, gondolas, and dungeons and dragons?

We'll take your disputes on any topic at maximumfund.org/slash jjho.

That's maximumfund.org/slash JJ H O.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

MaximumFund.org.

Comedy and Culture.

Artist Owned, Audience Supported.